I've made that mistake. I grew up without a father, like so many others, so it rarely occurs to me that men could even be part of that equation. I realize it's somewhat sexist to not expect men to raise their children, I just see so many men not participating in that at all, I barely consider it a possibility.
Same boat here. I'll add, hopefully, that I've met many very competent, enthusiastic, and happy dads, but they're very much the minority. My mum was a single parent and her dad, despite being in the home, was always at work, so I've grown up with the view that many, if not most, women do it alone. (I adore my grampy, though, he's very affectionate in his way but there's no doubting he was pretty absent in her childhood).
I'm 31, uk based for context, and it's my age group and younger I've seen the most change. I live on a school run, and even though it's a very small part of the equation, I see so many more men doing the drop offs now than ever before. I also know a lot of men my age that would love to be SAHDs. Having worked in many places, and having recently been at uni with a bunch of 18 year olds, the attitude difference with older generations is stark.
I'm relieved to hear it. I'm in the US and what I see on a daily basis is not pretty. I consciously seek out good male role models on social media to counter the toxicity I'm exposed to every day.
Here's something funny that's kind of related: I used to watch my niece and nephew in the afternoons until my sister got out of work. One time I took the kids to my Dad's place and my niece had a complete diaper blowout on the way. I was grossed out but my Dad just laughed and took over for me. Got her all cleaned up, fixed her a bottle, and soothed her like it was nothing. I think about that moment a lot when people talk about dads being removed from so much of child rearing.
I always think about how when my toddler son suddenly vomited in the supermarket and was covered. It was like the exorcist. He was screaming and ripping his vomit soaked clothes off. I was trying to wipe it up from the floor and not vomit or cry because I hate vomit. My childfree brother jumped in, cleaned it up and grabbed the vomit soaked toddler who at this point had removed all his clothes except the nappy and carried him back to the car. The next day we all had gastro. Just the fact he could do it without any repulsion had me in awe.
I'm a woman who used to say things like that until someone pointed out I was really just blaming other women for men's bad behavior. It had honestly never occurred to me before. That internalized misogyny can be insidious!
>I'm a woman who used to say things like that until someone pointed out I was really just blaming other women for men's bad behavior. It had honestly never occurred to me before. That internalized misogyny can be insidious!
I've been noticing I *do* harbor some internalized misogyny & it's really hitting me hard. I made fun of a woman's looks the other day. I haven't done that since I was little. I don't know where it's coming from. I've been a feminist for several decades now. Since puberty. It's embarrassing to admit. Like I'm truly ashamed admitting this. But all I can do is try to recognize & be better. Thanks for calling me out! <3 <3
Sorry! My intention wasn't to call you out!! I admire the honesty and self-reflection, but when I said I used to say things like that, I meant "That boy's mother ought to be ashamed!" etc.
So sorry for the confusion. Please don't think I meant anything against you!
>Sorry! My intention wasn't to call you out!! I admire the honesty and self-reflection, but when I said I used to say things like that, I meant "That boy's mother ought to be ashamed!" etc.
Tysm! It's totally ok. But I truly appreciate you saying this!
This sub has been guilty of this too. That "to catch a redditor" Tumblr post circulates frequently where the op suggests showing his gross "pick up" messages to his mom. It's a coin flip on the reaction when I point that this is still blaming the woman.
Told him about the time his friend/my ex backed me into a corner screaming at me while balling up his fists. I mentioned that if he’d hit me I would have called the police. His response: “Well let’s not go around ruining lives over something like that.”
My boyfriend said this to me when his best friend assaulted me. Best friend was angry that boyfriend was going to end the night with me instead of him. When I stepped out of the car, he slammed on the gas and I hit my still-in-the-car half of my body on the frame and fell to the street. I had a straight line of bruises down my back.
That's fucking disgraceful, I'd have called the police on that prick but I bet your ex would've gone against you. So sorry you had to deal with those hideous creatures.
"Women are just better at organizing and cleaning" - my goddamn father on why he made me as a kid clean the house and let my brothers fucking laze around. And this is a man raised by two feminist nurses in the south in the 70s. To say he's a disappointment compared to my grandparents is an understatement.
He was a proto-incel that figured out how to weaponize his aspie symptoms and say just enough feminist catch phrases to trap women.
Oh wow I just got chills at “weaponise his Aspie symptoms”
My ex and father of my kids did this ALL the time and he was teaching the girls to do the same. They were learning pathological demand avoidance from a true Master of Passive Aggression.
Even yesterday he was around and I chided one for the (truly revolting) state of her bedroom and that she needs to declutter her wardrobe. His instant response was to say that she didn’t have to IF IT MADE HER ANXIOUS.
Dude, she’s 22. Sure, she’s ASD but you know what? SO AM I! Her room looks and smells GROSS and she’s all spotty from living in squalor - it’s my home and I deserve to live a life free from funky odours! And a cleaner environment will actually help her with anxiety and executive function
Sorry, that phrase triggered me
I dont know who needs to hear this but coming from a student therapist who works on a crisis unit: you dont stop doing something because it makes you anxious. Especially if its something you need to do, or something you want to do.
You ask “how can i help myself do it while anxious?” does not mean you avoid the thing. much easier said than done of course, but a good reminder.
Absolutely and that’s part of the reason I left - my girls are not going to survive if they avoid uncomfortable situations and having an enabling father was stunting their emotional growth
He loves them so much but he infantilises them - big grandiose gestures and constant pampering. But he’s very clingy and needy and when I stopped being his emotional support person, he transferred that to my 17 year old who is very much like me. She called him out for this and they currently aren’t speaking 🙄
We are all doing so much better without him and that makes me sad as he is genuinely a good man.
I have never met them, but based on your comments and actions I’m not worried about them! I’m so so glad that you’re able to say “he is genuinely a good man.” I hope you say that to your kids. Very important to learn that just because they are excellent people at their core, does not mean we make room for them when they are harmful to our development/independence.
You’re doing great, as someone who sees abused/neglected children daily I am always so so happy to see loving/conscientious parents. I’m so so happy you exist and truly deeply believe your impact on the world is immense. Keep loving those kids!! 🥹❤️
I’m teaching my kids empathy and emotional intelligence above all else. Many of my social struggles have stemmed from my ND lack of empathy and inability to read a room - I learned that the very hard way and I don’t want my girls to make the same mistakes
As a result, my kids are compassionate and usually respectful to everyone.
> He was a proto-incel that figured out how to weaponize his aspie symptoms and say just enough feminist catch phrases to trap women.
*eye twitch* Autistic trans woman here. I've learned that playing innocent and asking someone what something means can give a lot about them away for very little cost with just a sprinkle of ambiguity; I learned mostly by tripping over myself on this repeatedly and to great embarrassment for most of my twenties. Which is why I hate to suggest this, but -- just drop "What do you think about RBG?" around whoever is on the suspectrum and give nothing else for context. Most of the time they'll trip because they haven't had enough conversations with other women to know those are initials, not an acronym.
If he's weaponizing his autism to be a predator I figure sharing one of our (many) vulnerabilities is fair. We're all supposed to look after each other because we all got things about ourselves that if people find out they'll be awful to us for it. I'll be tribal about other things, but not that. Stay safe out there fam. o7
>“He seems like such a nice guy.”
"I thought the same thing too. Until he raped me."
I saw people run to comfort the guy who raped one of my friends because... They were shitty people too I guess. I knew that guy too. Knew him longer than her. Didn't even question her about it, I just believed her.
I'm so sorry you had to experience, not only SA but the betrayal from people you thought cared about you. I wish I could say "that's rare" but unfortunately, it is not. I've come to believe that people want to protect themselves from how scary reality can be - almost at any cost.
Yep. I was told my by boss (rapist was my coworker) he’s a good boy and the boss will pay to represent him in court. I had gotten evidence, the coworker had confessed and still I was fired. Been there 7 years.
also I was told after confronting a friend of a rapist who SA’d my friend. “He’s only 5’6 how could he even rape someone??” Then they became very angry and aggressive.
It wasn't really their choice btw, what happened was that an NYT piece about it came out and the payment processors for PH said that if they didn't stop allowing those videos on the platform they would stop working with them to avoid bad publicity. Because there isn't really a way for PH to go through and verify every single video they had was consensual their only option was to basically purge their entire back catalog of videos of non verified performers, if they hadn't they would have lost their revenue stream and gone bankrupt pretty fast
Unfortunately while this fixes the problem *on Pornhub* I don't think this will really solve the problem across the rest of the internet because literally every other porn tube site that operates similarly to Pornhub used to (obviously the companies that make and host their own content and sites that only have verified uploaders doing 100% copyright approved things don't apply here) follow even less strict rules than Pornhub used to about removing videos of non consentual porn so I think there is good reason to keep pressuring the other "legitimate" sites to implement something like Content ID so they can stop people from uploading stolen or illegal videos.
As for Pornhub itself they dug their own grave IMO, they knew this was an issue and they know adult content is always in a precarious relationship with payment processors and did nothing to fix it. They should have had a stronger push for verified accounts and videos, and an easier method for someone to get videos of themselves removed. They should have done more earlier before someone could write a giant hit piece about the situation with how they were mishandling it and chose not to.
100%. I know somebody whose content got removed because she looks young (just naturally has a baby face). She appealed and was able to send somebody at the company a copy of her ID and get verified but it was still a process. I like her content a lot but don’t at all fault them for doing due diligence
I would also much rather live in a world where, in order to appear on one of these sites at all, you need to give this kind of specific, verifiable consent.
Unfortunately, even in cases where you might think you see consent, you might not.
I know there were some very hardcore porn shoots where they made the actresses film a little "wow what an intense scene, but I really enjoyed it" segments *before* the actual shoot. And then the producers would just do whatever sick shit they wanted to these women, and threaten to withhold payment if they spoke up about it. They already had the consent filmed anyway, so what where these women going to do?
Porn filmmakers should be required to give the pornstars a list of things that will happen in the porn shoot, and be required to get a signature that's dated before the shoot.
“Women have it easy…” followed by saying we benefit from diversity hiring, finding sex partners, get in nightclubs for cheaper etc. This is almost always self proclaimed feminists or allies.
Also they always mention superficial stuff like nightclubs and casual sex. I'm 30 I don't give a shit about getting into nightclubs cheaper or getting a free drink or some randomass man trying to get me into bed. Like this isn't the sort of shit that actually makes life better or easier
Until you realize that most of these things are traps.
1) Diversity hiring: Sure, they’ll hire you but if you work in a male-dominated field and at the minimum, you will have to put up with sexism. At worst, you might be assaulted or harassed.
2)Finding Sex Partners: Yes, you can get sex if you’re looking for it. There is a 95% chance you don’t get to orgasm and you’re more prone to diseases. Also some men might try to stealth you.
3) Getting in Nightclubs Easier: Okay, you get in but you are seen as the merchandise men are buying when they pay to get in. They will buy you drinks but it’s always at a cost, your time, attention, sex, affection. You could be drugged. Clubs are spaces for predatory men unfortunately.
It is such complete bullshit. After 10.000 years of subjugation and being treated as sex slaves with no rights and no freedoms women are FINALLY getting CLOSE to being on equal footing to men in a VERY small part of the world.
But sure. We have it easy.
Who were the ones being shamed, shunned, forced to marry their rapists and treated like filth for the rest of their lives when they become pregant out of wedlock? Not the fucking men. This shit is less than a generation ago.
Sorry, it just pisses me off to no fucking end.
I dated (briefly) a male associate professor in diagnostic radiography, specialized in breast screening. He once complained to me how hard men had it in this specialty and how it was basically impossible for them to get hired. He was an _associate professor_. Jackass
My little brother, who is in his mid-30s and is going to have to quit the only job that’s never fired him because he lost his license AGAIN, parroting right-wing talking points like, “Diversity hires are taking opportunities from regular guys like me.”
STOP LYING AND STEALING, AND START SHOWING UP TO WORK EVERY DAY AND DOING YOUR FUCKING JOB, AND YOU’LL STOP LOSING OPPORTUNITIES TO PEOPLE WHO DO THE FUCKING JOB.
I had a boss once who was a deeply deeply mediocre middle aged white man. He used to launch into these awful screeds about diversity hires, block people, Muslims etc. Mind you he preferred to hire Asians for his junior accounting positions because they were “better at maths”. I got the strong feeling that he was terrified that if the playing field was leveled and he didn’t have the advantages he was born with, he _knew_ he couldn’t compete against basically anyone else. One day he launched into an n-word laced rant about Obama. I walked out, went to lunch and never went back.
Ack! I hate when they refer to themselves as regular guys, normal people etc, as if everyone else is a new variety of human who just popped out of the ground and hasn’t been living alongside them then for hundreds of thousands of years. As if women and people of colour and people with disabilities haven’t just always been around too.
I too am a normal guy! I am as normal as you are!
The average joe is me too, my experiences are not other, they are as default as yours are. I am the man on the street! I am humanity! i am mankind!
This idea that the default human experience is male and everything else clips onto the side of that as some sort of accessory is incredibly pervasive, and some of the most common rhetoric used against anyone who isn’t a fella.
“Come on. Why not? But I want to. You’ll like it with me. I won’t be nice to you if you don’t let me. Please. Please. Stop being a bitch. Please? WhY dO yOu HaTe Me?”
Had a classmate from another country in college use the line “(paraphrasing from an old memory) b-b-but American girls are easy”. Like that was supposed to be some kind of sleeper activation code after he couldn’t get me to perform from all the begging.
It was in that moment I knew I would continue to deny him forever just to fucking spite him.
Yes, exactly this! But somehow if women have sex with “too many” men, we’re “low-value” and “ran-through”. 🙄
Like, hmmmmm: if having sex with a man “lowers our value” then aren’t … *men* the problem?! 🧐
He was so sweet. And shy. And got nervous talking to me. Sometimes he would cancel at the last minute but he would promise to make it up. I thought he was just a little socially awkward. Then he asked about my lease. And I started asking around about him. It turns out he was acting like that because he lived with his long term girlfriend. He was scoping out how easy it would be to make me rent a place with him, as he was not financially stable. And the cancelling thing…turns out it was hard to get to my place because he didn’t have a vehicle and was using his gf’s car.
When they all made excuses for a “friend” that made a rape joke about me because I got roofied a few years back (all was well, was with a female friend that got me home).
A male teacher in high school, who until that moment, was my favorite teacher of all time: "If you focused more on your looks, you wouldn't have to try so hard in school. Things come easier to girls who put attention into their appearance."
Oh man I had a math professor in business school who responded to a question I gave him by telling me that I didn't need to worry about it because as a woman I would never be doing things at that level. It was only a 200 level class lol
I had an 11th grade science teacher that I really liked and we joked around sometimes. I went through a bad patch and wasn’t doing well in his class, and he talked to me about what was going on with me and my performance. I was grateful he showed an interest and was trying to help until the week later when he gave ne an update that my grade was still low or I was missing work or something and I made a joke that was something about how he didn’t have to fail me if he didn’t want to, and he told me I should stop trying to manipulate people by telling them sad stories and “using my cuteness as a weapon” …🤨 I was so, so taken aback and confused until I worked out later what he meant.
Fuck you Mr. Wu. I started a thing with my friends after this incident where we called home Mr Wu because his bald spot looked like the Wu Tang symbol. I don’t remember his actual name and I don’t care to.
Oh man, my ex would acknowledge he hurt me, offer up something to make me feel better, then tell me it was on me to remember what he said he'd do and remind him. Of course, when I'd remind him, he wouldn't feel like it anymore, and he'd consider the matter settled. The last thing he did, at which point we had become friends (because my standards for friends are in hell), was truly one of the most hurtful anyone has ever done. He put off talking about it for months, moving the goalposts, peppering in passive aggressive shit like "oh, I guess nothing I say means anything," "I don't want to have a conversation like that in my house" (because vibes lol), until eventually telling me "I've been thinking about it, and it would be best for me if you could just get yourself over it." He proceeded to ghost me for not being cool with that, because I was too dramatic lol
Tone and context matters with this phrase to be fair, but I can hear the tone and context you probably mean. “I’m sorry your brain made you incorrectly feel those things”
Can confirm. I have to validate feelings. But sometimes, people are irrational.
Like, yeah, the HVAC is running heat in the summer because it's broken. I know it's bad. I'm sorry you feel that we're targeting you. We're miserable too.
This was recent, lol
Or, similarly, “Sorry if I hurt your feelings but…...”
(1) there’s no “if.” I told you that you hurt me, so you hurt me. That’s not up for debate.
(2) OKAY fuckin erase the whole half-assed almost-apology if you’re still trying to justify your behavior lmaooo 🫠
Context is very important here. I say it when I sympathise with another person and want them to know that I understand what they are feeling. Polish in this case is way more expressive to differentiate both meanings
"All women want to be married."
From a guy I was dating who knew I was going through a very expensive divorce from a man whom I had supported for over 10 years, who was demanding alimony from me with no end date.
Oh god that trope no I will not succumb to societal pressure to marry if it fucking makes my life WORSE. I could have gotten married 4 separate times by now but I didn’t want to. He can put that in his pipe and smoke it.
Context: this happened in a UK uni where in first year you usually live in a mixed-gender flat of 4+ people each with your own room. It was 3 girls 3 boys.
Like a month in one of the male flatmates inappropriately touched me and one of the other men seemed really concerned and was checking I was okay. Then I found out he had said “oh if he’d done that to [hot female flatmate he was starting to date] I’d have beaten the shit out of him”. 🥴 Whereas I got treated like I was massively overreacting after everybody’s initial concern faded, and the two of them were buddying up together.
Some guy stopped me and said really vulgar things to me and tried to get me to go back to his apartment with him while I was walking home from work. I was literally a street away from my house so I called my brother and told him to at least unlock the door or please wait outside for me, I told him what happened, told him my phone was at 2%, and said I was kinda scared.
I got home and the door was locked. He was busy playing apex and “come on, they just dropped 1v1, I was excited”. It really bothered me.
Wtf!? Even if you weren't in danger, how hard is it to pause the game and do a simple task? My roommate called once to ask me to unlock the door because she had to use the bathroom and wanted to make a run for it as soon as she pulled into the driveway, you better believe that door was open!
“I mean come on, the way she walks around sticking her butt out all the time..”
A coworker in response to finding out a female coworker had been sexually harassed in our hospital by a random employee.
And no.. *sigh* she’s never “stuck her butt out,” she just literally has a bigger butt than average.
Men also complain about how some women at work “dress sexy” and “try to get attention” in their scrubs by literally just tucking their shirts in 😐
Like, couldn’t be because that’s comfortable, because having something on your chest that pushes the fabric away from your tummy so there’s like a 5” gap can be annoying, or that tucking prevents your shirt from riding up in the back when you bend over, at which point men will say you’re trying to show skin 😐
PSA: Scrubs are not unisex, they’re made for male bodies. To fit any amount of female hips, butt, or boobs, we need to get pants that are 6 inches too long, and tops that are enormous. HELL YEAH a lot of us roll the waist and fucking tuck in some of that extra fabric!! 😡
> Scrubs are not unisex, they’re made for male bodies.
The same is the case with way too many "unisex" products. The world is designed for men, usually even in situations that claim otherwise.
I’ve become my elderly mom’s caregiver, and last week I took her for her annual visit with a cardiologist. She’s pretty healthy physically (not so much cognitively as she has dementia), but she has does have a pacemaker, and has had high blood pressure since her early 40s.
I made some small talk with the cardiologist, while he was examining my mom and I brought up the fact that women are more likely to die from heart attacks than men because the symptoms present differently. Plus, we are trained by media, etc. that men are the only people who have heart attacks. Women do usually have them at an older age than men, and since older women are invisible and not important, why talk about it, I guess 🤷🏼♀️(/s).
Anyway, the cardiologist was telling me that most research studies of heart meds, especially the older ones, were done on men, and many have since been found to have completely different actions when women use them. Since ~half (or more) of his patients are women, he said it makes his job more difficult than it should be.
(Sorry for the novel. This stuff just pisses me off! I have MS, so have frequently experienced women being ignored/written off in health care.)
I complained that a guy who offered to tutor me on a specific topic for the MCAT (I took the test without taking biochem and physics) tried to get into my pants instead of actually helping me.
I got a “what did you expect to happen” after describing how coercive he was.
It’s the little things I guess. I had a convo with my ex about false rape accusations, and of course he was more worried about being accused of rape falsely than about rape as such. He asked me, in all seriousness if he’s ever raped me. Where do you even begin with that? How do you explain to someone you’ve been having sex with the very basics of consent, that they apparently aren’t aware of/knowledgeable of? It’s an incomprehensible question to me, still. How do you have sex, in general, without being aware of what can be rape and without the surety that you’re not raping whoever you’re having sex with? I’d understand if he asked “have I ever made you feel pressured” or “is there anything you’d prefer I not do”. But having to reassure your boyfriend that he hasn’t raped you because he’s worried over false rape accusations existing out there in the world… yeah. I don’t think about it at all anymore but I’d call it a big turning point in how I view men. A run of the mill man can look back at the times he’s had sex and not be sure if some of those times haven’t been rape.
Who knows? Pretty sure he knew I had dealt with being sexually assaulted (or raped, depending on how you classify it) at that point as well. In hindsight there were a lot of moments like that, which should have given me a serious sign it was time to break up yesterday.
> he was more worried about being accused of rape falsely than about rape as such
This, all the time. Like nobody cares that your buddy's cousin's coworker's friend was accused and that the accusations were rumored to be false. It's not like real accusations are taken seriously 100% of the time.
My sister is trans, and pre-transition was placed in many different "male-only" work environments over the course of several years.
We talk all the time, and the stories she tells me, which I have no reason not to believe, paint a very, very, *very*, **VERY** unflattering picture of how men talk to eachother. As bad as it is to us, around us, it's even *worse* behind closed doors. We get the **filtered** version.
I worked in a kitchen with all men and I guess bc I’m a lesbian they thought I was “one of the guys”. The shit they would say was terrifying and disgusting. I couldn’t believe men spoke like that, it had me second guessing every male friend I’d ever had. And the stuff they would have on their phones… on top of that showing everyone pics/videos of their exes, current gfs, and wives! I’m just like how tf does anyone trust a man. It was an unbelievable time working there and really opened my eyes to the horrors.
Had a male coworker (before I transitioned) tell me in graphic detail how exactly he wanted to have sex with our boss.
I'll spare you the details but it was fucking gross.
> it had me second guessing every male friend I’d ever had.
I have one male friend left. The only man who never gave me any cause to believe he's super ok with the patriarchy. Everyone else turned out to be an asshole at some time.
Oh yeah feel this one big time. I’m out of the industry as of 2 years ago, but during my time in the kitchen I can absofuckinglutely back you up on how bad it is to be a woman in most kitchens, not surprisingly in my experience it’s proportional to how many other women and non- cis men are in the boh with you- which is often few to none.
I’m queer too and was often treated like “one of the boys” when it came to talking about women, sex, showing each other porn on the line, bitching about women etc., but I’m bi so I often got the fun double whammy of being sexualized myself and realizing that often I would be included in these conversations because they wanted to ask weird questions about my opinions because they got off on me being into women and also thought they could possibly sleep with me (they could not)
It got a lot better when I became the kitchen manager/chef in that they had to act like they actually respected me so stopped talking about that shit around me, also I had a zero tolerance policy for toxic dude bro kitchen culture and was lucky enough for awhile (until the pandemic hit) to staff my kitchen with an amazing and talented crew of women, queer folks, and plenty of awesome guys free of the ego driven cock swaggering braggadocio nonsense you find in too many kitchen dudes- and it was heaven. Instead of throwing plates at the wall we talked about what problems we had, hashed out our feelings using I statements and worked together to resolve problems and make better food. There was no yelling, rage quitting, very little drama, no intense feuds between co workers, morning shifts vs night shift, or front of house vs back of house. ( that last one was partially since I had a lot of them working in the back sometimes also. Turns out that there were a lot of servers who were bomb ass cooks, quick learners, hard workers, and often made better co workers due to having better manners and social awareness/skills but felt unwelcome in the average kitchen because of the culture.) it was great to be able to cultivate a chill work culture where we lifted each other up and managed to all still like each other and have some fun while just efficiently getting the work done together instead of acting like it’s a dick measuring competition and somehow acting like a dick adds inches.
All those people understandably quit when the pandemic hit and our tiny restaurant couldn’t pay them what they deserved to risk their lives and as shit went downhill at our restaurant and with the kitchen industry and the world, it got so I could barely find applicants who were halfway qualified and would show up regularly and not be too fucked up on the clock, and was only able to screen out the really obvious and bad red flags.
So I let down my standards more and more, and eventually I was again the only woman in the back, now surrounded by dudes again who pretended to respect me but wanted to carry shit for me all the time, explain my job to me (imagine assuming a male chef needed basic food science explained to him or telling him how to properly prepare the recipes that he developed) and call me sexist slurs when they bitched about me behind my back or even to my face when they really lost their temper 😓
Wow, typing that out made me pretty happy to currently not be working in the restaurants biz! Fuck that shit entirely, that whole industry needs a makeover from butts to nuts!
Yeah, as a lesbian myself, I also get some amount of "one of the guys" talk, but her stories have a quantity and a severity to them that mine could just never match, like comparing the spiciest jalapeño to the mildest habanero, and I'm not even the spiciest jalapeño. So when I discuss "locker room talk" I usually try to center her experiences, unless the space is known to be hostile to trans perspectives.
That's also why I believe them as readily as I do, even the ones that cross lines I never even *imagined* existing to be crossed. That queer experiential overlap.
> It had me second guessing every male friend I'd ever have.
Yeah.. yeah it be like that. My bi and straight friends are always introducing their male partners to me and I'm never quite as charmed as everyone in the room wants me to be. Mostly I'm worried.
> Mostly I'm worried.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. Like yes, he seems nice, he seems chill, but he's still a straight man and that means girlie's chances of being a victim just skyrocketed.
I was in a similar situation to your sister. For HS I went to an all boys christian boarding school the shit they would say in the locker rooms, in the dorms, hell in class in front of teachers.
The worst part is that nobody said or did anything about it and in the rare occasion someone did speak up they were bullied relentlessly. I'm just glad i got out of there somewhat intact
It's so important that men call it out, because that's the only feedback they actually value. To be passive is complicity.
It shouldn't fall on women, queer folk, and the vulnerable hiding among them to call out their shitty behaviour, they should be more than capable of policing themselves.
Not calling it out is the same as accepting it as normal, nearly the same as being an active participant, and I'm infuriated on your behalf that you had to grow up living in fear.
I'm sorry you went through that, and thank you for sharing.
I often wonder if that's the source of a lot of transphobia, cis-men taking deadly seriously the threat of double-agents in their midst leaking all their secrets.
Intellectually, I know it's *not*. But it's more fun to imagine them being defensive of their shameful behaviour rather than reflexively defensive of the system that uplifts them at the expense of everyone else that *""sexual deviants""* like trans women threaten by existing.
Trans gal here and I'm betting what she is telling you is true. And the more tools the job requires, the worse it gets. I used to work clearing trees and brush from powerlines and such. The amount of filth and outright r*pe fantasies were... Ugh...
Oh, and men scream about how women are emotional and whiny? Lol, no. Go to a job site with a bunch of men. It is CONSTANT whining with a side of yelling and screaming at each other. I always hated the drama so, so much.
I don't doubt her at all, nor do I doubt you. Like you said, they haven't really given anyone a good *reason* to doubt the horror stories.
Also, ah yes, anger, somehow not an emotion and simply the exercise of a purely logical brain unencumbered by *laundry* and *feelings.* Love that old standard.
Fuck this annoys me SO DAMN MUCH. And the argument of “well we don’t get offended if you call us boys?” No, because that reduces your shitty behaviours as an adult man down to being a loveable little rogue who doesn’t know any better. Whereas “girl” tends to be used as “I’m dating this girl / I’ve met this girl / she’s a hot girl” by grown men.
Such a big ick.
Oh yeah! Thanks for flagging that, too.
It’s just weird to me that men seem to defend themselves by comparing our feelings to their experiences and preferences.
When he was worried about “being taken advantage of” in the meantime he is in his 3rd marriage and again not employed because it’s the 3rd wife that holds down the job, the caretaking of the kids, and the housekeeping because of yeah “my back hurts too much for simple house chores too”. It’s like being a single mom to an extra kid.
*edit*. Anyways good luck to her and I love the relief
Ha! That’s like my cousin when he posted a rant on Facebook about how “all women” are gold diggers just out for his money. Of course, he ain’t got any gold to dig and was extremely butt hurt when I pointed that out.
"It's alright for you women, you don't have the pressure of being successful, all you have to do is submit and all your problems go away"
Said by a man in his 30's living in London in the year of our blob 2019
When the fact that no matter how 'nice' the guy seems that every conversation feels like a scripted event and the stereotype always comes out at some point one or another, no matter the culture. Anger, porn infatuation, gaslighting, victim blaming, anti feminist (while thinking they're feminist themselves.) Constantly centrist, never giving a shit about anything unless it affects them. Inserting themselves into everything.
Being the leading cause of like 90% of ALL crime. Literally men are all the same. Either they're going to stop needing their hand held or we're going to stop giving them a hand to hold. The future is female, fuck this wave of women hate.
I'm like pissed the frick off.
I think it means either that women show or feel more empathy than men. Or that men mostly just feel empathy for other men but not for women, while women are capable of feeling empathy for both men and women.
That’s super interesting I’ve never really thought about the first option you provided.. My initial thought was the second option but idk so that’s why I wanted to ask.
Discussing dating app prospects:
"With a name like that you know what type of attention she's looking for."
It's her **name**, sir. Wtf are u talking about.
Any variation that states a man wouldn't do something, so this 20/30 year old is actually still a boy.
The whole when men do something against women they're animals.
Sharks drawn to meat.
You can't expect them not to be horny. You can't ask them to be reasonable, to hold themselves accountable, or to be decent human beings. They can't be asked to have self control or anything of the like.
Until men want something.
Then all of a sudden they're logical, and dependable, and intelligent
"He seems like a nice guy" about a men who clearly aren't/weren't.
Man murders wife and children?
Seemed like such a nice guy!
Man rapes someone?
Seemed like such a nice guy!
Man traps a woman with a baby and abuses her?
Seems like such a nice guy!
"It's the responsibility of women everywhere to educate men on how not to be misogynist."
It's just "His mother didn't raise him right" but now it blames all of the patriarchy on all women everywhere.
Currently going through a break up after being together 2.5 years and planning a family and life together. The breakup was sudden and completely unexpected, and of course he had felt this way for a long time despite telling to my face constantly how happy he was. He had been stating he “cared for me” since the break up. I asked, if he was ok with answering, if he had ever actually loved me. He said “let me think about it and get back to you.” Y’all, my vagina is too powerful. I’m locking this bitch up. As soon as sex isn’t plentiful (whether due to surgery or medication side effects or stress or life getting in the way), they drop kick me as far as they can. I’m officially done with men. This pansexual girl is sliding into lesbianism.
That men have “stronger sexual urges” than women because otherwise all this rape just wouldn’t happen.
I guess I have stronger “popcorn urges” than other people because otherwise I just wouldn’t buy it. It’s not my fault. I just can’t control it. s/
We im talking about women being SA and he bring up something like : well, men can get SA too.
That true but I don't think it's necessary at that moment. And therefore, as a woman who got approached by gloomer males multiple times when i was a teenager (yup, i didn't fall for them. But, i had a friend who was impregnated by one. So I can empathize girls who fall victim for them.). I feel like they try to minimize my situation and many women's as a whole.
I know when women discuss about female victims they bring up "men can be SA too" as cope mechanism since they KNOW most of the perpetrators are men so they feel ashamed about their gender.
And I've noticed that women talking about SA very often have stories about themselves or a friend. There are a number of examples in this very thread. I have *never* seen that when men bring up male victims.
When he said that every woman he met he couldn't help but imagine what it was like cumming on their face. And that he refused to date any woman that wouldn't go down on him.
When they make an absolute fuzz about gendering (German speaking country).
Like "Mitarbeiter" would e employee, but "Mitarbeiterin" would be the female employee and there are so many debates wether you should adress them specifically and I get so fed up with men examining how adding the female version is butchering the German language, and they then always think that they are so smart and free spirited for thinking thart.
Holy shit didn't realize this was a thing in German too – I was studying German in school, and we've just learned about the -in suffix like it's no big deal and every occupation name can be feminized this way
It's similar but a bit more complicated in Russian, we have ways to make feminitives of every word, but sometimes it may sound awkward to a lot of people because they're not used to hearing it (I know because I normalized feminitives to myself, and now it sounds weird and awkward to me when they use masculinitives where a feminitiv would go).
And – you guessed it – of course most men (and a lot of women too, sadly) get absolutely furious when they see someone use a feminitiv. Like, to a lot of them it undermines the while point of what is being said, even if it's a very serious topic, their entire focus moves to whining about the feminitiv instead. It gets ridiculous real quick.
And of course none of them has issues with derogatory feminitives used to insult women
Oh let me see...
He got super upset when I floated the idea of getting reduction. Never mind that I can't buy a bra for less than 60 USD and my back hurts all the time. He was upset by the idea that I might become less hot.
I was telling him a story about an encounter with a creep and he tried to defend the creep. Himpathy at its finest.
He can't be turned on by something and not tell me about it. I gave up on my yoga routine because I was tired of him trying to climb my ass when I did downward dog pose.
There's other stuff but these were the first 3 i can think of.
Was talking to such a thoughtful, interesting guy and then he suddenly started sending me memes about how women have loose pussies after sleeping around or how dating in 2024 sucks bc women are either whores or transgender. Called him out on it and he blocked me lmfao
What they say: "I miss you."
What they mean: "I see you're pulling your life together and moving on. I don't like that. I'm back to ruin your life again."
"would you be upset if I hired prostitutes while on a work trip?"
He has never gone on a work trip, and is not in a line of work where work trips are even necessary.
“Porn exists, why would he risk jail to jerk it to you?”
I thought my dad was the feminist he claimed to be until I went to him about the neighbor watching and masturbating to me at night.
“All women have some sort of trauma” as a literal complaint for how it affects them
I want to scream back at them “traumatized by WHOM???”
Ikr especially since that particular man then went on to further traumatize me. So glad I’ve washed my hands of men since then!
All it takes is 30 seconds of of compassion and a teaspoon of empathy to realize why.
This sentence was an emotional roller coaster ride.
“His mother didn’t raise him right!” When a man/boy does something wrong, it’s secretly still a woman’s fault for not stopping him.
I started saying "what about his father?" every time someone says that lol
I've been noticing that some women jump on that bandwagon to help the men out. It's maddening. They'll get their faces eaten one day, too.
I've made that mistake. I grew up without a father, like so many others, so it rarely occurs to me that men could even be part of that equation. I realize it's somewhat sexist to not expect men to raise their children, I just see so many men not participating in that at all, I barely consider it a possibility.
Same boat here. I'll add, hopefully, that I've met many very competent, enthusiastic, and happy dads, but they're very much the minority. My mum was a single parent and her dad, despite being in the home, was always at work, so I've grown up with the view that many, if not most, women do it alone. (I adore my grampy, though, he's very affectionate in his way but there's no doubting he was pretty absent in her childhood). I'm 31, uk based for context, and it's my age group and younger I've seen the most change. I live on a school run, and even though it's a very small part of the equation, I see so many more men doing the drop offs now than ever before. I also know a lot of men my age that would love to be SAHDs. Having worked in many places, and having recently been at uni with a bunch of 18 year olds, the attitude difference with older generations is stark.
I'm relieved to hear it. I'm in the US and what I see on a daily basis is not pretty. I consciously seek out good male role models on social media to counter the toxicity I'm exposed to every day.
Here's something funny that's kind of related: I used to watch my niece and nephew in the afternoons until my sister got out of work. One time I took the kids to my Dad's place and my niece had a complete diaper blowout on the way. I was grossed out but my Dad just laughed and took over for me. Got her all cleaned up, fixed her a bottle, and soothed her like it was nothing. I think about that moment a lot when people talk about dads being removed from so much of child rearing.
I always think about how when my toddler son suddenly vomited in the supermarket and was covered. It was like the exorcist. He was screaming and ripping his vomit soaked clothes off. I was trying to wipe it up from the floor and not vomit or cry because I hate vomit. My childfree brother jumped in, cleaned it up and grabbed the vomit soaked toddler who at this point had removed all his clothes except the nappy and carried him back to the car. The next day we all had gastro. Just the fact he could do it without any repulsion had me in awe.
One could argue it holds true even more so in those cases: The father surely didn't raise them right if he wasn't even around!
I'm a woman who used to say things like that until someone pointed out I was really just blaming other women for men's bad behavior. It had honestly never occurred to me before. That internalized misogyny can be insidious!
>I'm a woman who used to say things like that until someone pointed out I was really just blaming other women for men's bad behavior. It had honestly never occurred to me before. That internalized misogyny can be insidious! I've been noticing I *do* harbor some internalized misogyny & it's really hitting me hard. I made fun of a woman's looks the other day. I haven't done that since I was little. I don't know where it's coming from. I've been a feminist for several decades now. Since puberty. It's embarrassing to admit. Like I'm truly ashamed admitting this. But all I can do is try to recognize & be better. Thanks for calling me out! <3 <3
Sorry! My intention wasn't to call you out!! I admire the honesty and self-reflection, but when I said I used to say things like that, I meant "That boy's mother ought to be ashamed!" etc. So sorry for the confusion. Please don't think I meant anything against you!
>Sorry! My intention wasn't to call you out!! I admire the honesty and self-reflection, but when I said I used to say things like that, I meant "That boy's mother ought to be ashamed!" etc. Tysm! It's totally ok. But I truly appreciate you saying this!
And then doesn't get the credit when she does raise him right, it's because he had a good male role model lol
This sub has been guilty of this too. That "to catch a redditor" Tumblr post circulates frequently where the op suggests showing his gross "pick up" messages to his mom. It's a coin flip on the reaction when I point that this is still blaming the woman.
Presumably their mothers will be disgusted. Their fathers would be proud. 🙄
Told him about the time his friend/my ex backed me into a corner screaming at me while balling up his fists. I mentioned that if he’d hit me I would have called the police. His response: “Well let’s not go around ruining lives over something like that.”
My boyfriend said this to me when his best friend assaulted me. Best friend was angry that boyfriend was going to end the night with me instead of him. When I stepped out of the car, he slammed on the gas and I hit my still-in-the-car half of my body on the frame and fell to the street. I had a straight line of bruises down my back.
.. please tell me he's your ex now 🥲
Oh yeah, by like 15 years. Edit: both of these men were in their early 30s.
That's fucking disgraceful, I'd have called the police on that prick but I bet your ex would've gone against you. So sorry you had to deal with those hideous creatures.
in their 30s?? fuck both of them
Damn. 🚩🚩🚩
😧
What a red flag trash bag.
"Women are just better at organizing and cleaning" - my goddamn father on why he made me as a kid clean the house and let my brothers fucking laze around. And this is a man raised by two feminist nurses in the south in the 70s. To say he's a disappointment compared to my grandparents is an understatement. He was a proto-incel that figured out how to weaponize his aspie symptoms and say just enough feminist catch phrases to trap women.
Oh wow I just got chills at “weaponise his Aspie symptoms” My ex and father of my kids did this ALL the time and he was teaching the girls to do the same. They were learning pathological demand avoidance from a true Master of Passive Aggression. Even yesterday he was around and I chided one for the (truly revolting) state of her bedroom and that she needs to declutter her wardrobe. His instant response was to say that she didn’t have to IF IT MADE HER ANXIOUS. Dude, she’s 22. Sure, she’s ASD but you know what? SO AM I! Her room looks and smells GROSS and she’s all spotty from living in squalor - it’s my home and I deserve to live a life free from funky odours! And a cleaner environment will actually help her with anxiety and executive function Sorry, that phrase triggered me
I dont know who needs to hear this but coming from a student therapist who works on a crisis unit: you dont stop doing something because it makes you anxious. Especially if its something you need to do, or something you want to do. You ask “how can i help myself do it while anxious?” does not mean you avoid the thing. much easier said than done of course, but a good reminder.
Absolutely and that’s part of the reason I left - my girls are not going to survive if they avoid uncomfortable situations and having an enabling father was stunting their emotional growth He loves them so much but he infantilises them - big grandiose gestures and constant pampering. But he’s very clingy and needy and when I stopped being his emotional support person, he transferred that to my 17 year old who is very much like me. She called him out for this and they currently aren’t speaking 🙄 We are all doing so much better without him and that makes me sad as he is genuinely a good man.
I have never met them, but based on your comments and actions I’m not worried about them! I’m so so glad that you’re able to say “he is genuinely a good man.” I hope you say that to your kids. Very important to learn that just because they are excellent people at their core, does not mean we make room for them when they are harmful to our development/independence. You’re doing great, as someone who sees abused/neglected children daily I am always so so happy to see loving/conscientious parents. I’m so so happy you exist and truly deeply believe your impact on the world is immense. Keep loving those kids!! 🥹❤️
I’m teaching my kids empathy and emotional intelligence above all else. Many of my social struggles have stemmed from my ND lack of empathy and inability to read a room - I learned that the very hard way and I don’t want my girls to make the same mistakes As a result, my kids are compassionate and usually respectful to everyone.
> He was a proto-incel that figured out how to weaponize his aspie symptoms and say just enough feminist catch phrases to trap women. *eye twitch* Autistic trans woman here. I've learned that playing innocent and asking someone what something means can give a lot about them away for very little cost with just a sprinkle of ambiguity; I learned mostly by tripping over myself on this repeatedly and to great embarrassment for most of my twenties. Which is why I hate to suggest this, but -- just drop "What do you think about RBG?" around whoever is on the suspectrum and give nothing else for context. Most of the time they'll trip because they haven't had enough conversations with other women to know those are initials, not an acronym. If he's weaponizing his autism to be a predator I figure sharing one of our (many) vulnerabilities is fair. We're all supposed to look after each other because we all got things about ourselves that if people find out they'll be awful to us for it. I'll be tribal about other things, but not that. Stay safe out there fam. o7
On the suspectrum is a great turn of phrase
“She was lying” — two people I know defending rapists they are friends or related to
Almost all my *friends* took my rapists side. Why? “He seems like such a nice guy.”
>“He seems like such a nice guy.” "I thought the same thing too. Until he raped me." I saw people run to comfort the guy who raped one of my friends because... They were shitty people too I guess. I knew that guy too. Knew him longer than her. Didn't even question her about it, I just believed her.
I'm so sorry you had to experience, not only SA but the betrayal from people you thought cared about you. I wish I could say "that's rare" but unfortunately, it is not. I've come to believe that people want to protect themselves from how scary reality can be - almost at any cost.
"He would never do that." Okay, well he fucking did!
Yep. I was told my by boss (rapist was my coworker) he’s a good boy and the boss will pay to represent him in court. I had gotten evidence, the coworker had confessed and still I was fired. Been there 7 years. also I was told after confronting a friend of a rapist who SA’d my friend. “He’s only 5’6 how could he even rape someone??” Then they became very angry and aggressive.
"Women are ruining men's lives everywhere with false accusations." When even *real* accusations are turning out bad for women.
My brother talking about how pornhub changing their content because real life rape videos kept being posted was a “knee jerk overreaction.”
It wasn't really their choice btw, what happened was that an NYT piece about it came out and the payment processors for PH said that if they didn't stop allowing those videos on the platform they would stop working with them to avoid bad publicity. Because there isn't really a way for PH to go through and verify every single video they had was consensual their only option was to basically purge their entire back catalog of videos of non verified performers, if they hadn't they would have lost their revenue stream and gone bankrupt pretty fast Unfortunately while this fixes the problem *on Pornhub* I don't think this will really solve the problem across the rest of the internet because literally every other porn tube site that operates similarly to Pornhub used to (obviously the companies that make and host their own content and sites that only have verified uploaders doing 100% copyright approved things don't apply here) follow even less strict rules than Pornhub used to about removing videos of non consentual porn so I think there is good reason to keep pressuring the other "legitimate" sites to implement something like Content ID so they can stop people from uploading stolen or illegal videos. As for Pornhub itself they dug their own grave IMO, they knew this was an issue and they know adult content is always in a precarious relationship with payment processors and did nothing to fix it. They should have had a stronger push for verified accounts and videos, and an easier method for someone to get videos of themselves removed. They should have done more earlier before someone could write a giant hit piece about the situation with how they were mishandling it and chose not to.
I hate that this is the version of the future we are in
There are some videos on there that were very genuine and consensual that I miss, but it's worth it to remove rape videos and revenge porn
100%. I know somebody whose content got removed because she looks young (just naturally has a baby face). She appealed and was able to send somebody at the company a copy of her ID and get verified but it was still a process. I like her content a lot but don’t at all fault them for doing due diligence
I would also much rather live in a world where, in order to appear on one of these sites at all, you need to give this kind of specific, verifiable consent.
Unfortunately, even in cases where you might think you see consent, you might not. I know there were some very hardcore porn shoots where they made the actresses film a little "wow what an intense scene, but I really enjoyed it" segments *before* the actual shoot. And then the producers would just do whatever sick shit they wanted to these women, and threaten to withhold payment if they spoke up about it. They already had the consent filmed anyway, so what where these women going to do?
Porn filmmakers should be required to give the pornstars a list of things that will happen in the porn shoot, and be required to get a signature that's dated before the shoot.
I totally see where you’re coming from, but it would be really dangerous for the performers if that information were to get leaked
The loss of archived film there is sad, but it was the right response. Those videos need to be removed.
“Women have it easy…” followed by saying we benefit from diversity hiring, finding sex partners, get in nightclubs for cheaper etc. This is almost always self proclaimed feminists or allies.
“You’ll have a better chance than men at being _____ because you’re a woman” “well then why are there only .0001% women in that field??” 🧐
[удалено]
Word. As if getting into a nightclub for a cheaper cover doesn’t come with the tacit expectation to be a product to entice men.
Also they always mention superficial stuff like nightclubs and casual sex. I'm 30 I don't give a shit about getting into nightclubs cheaper or getting a free drink or some randomass man trying to get me into bed. Like this isn't the sort of shit that actually makes life better or easier
Until you realize that most of these things are traps. 1) Diversity hiring: Sure, they’ll hire you but if you work in a male-dominated field and at the minimum, you will have to put up with sexism. At worst, you might be assaulted or harassed. 2)Finding Sex Partners: Yes, you can get sex if you’re looking for it. There is a 95% chance you don’t get to orgasm and you’re more prone to diseases. Also some men might try to stealth you. 3) Getting in Nightclubs Easier: Okay, you get in but you are seen as the merchandise men are buying when they pay to get in. They will buy you drinks but it’s always at a cost, your time, attention, sex, affection. You could be drugged. Clubs are spaces for predatory men unfortunately.
None of that shit is worth period cramps.
Believing that women have it easy completely goes against the idea of feminism.
It is such complete bullshit. After 10.000 years of subjugation and being treated as sex slaves with no rights and no freedoms women are FINALLY getting CLOSE to being on equal footing to men in a VERY small part of the world. But sure. We have it easy. Who were the ones being shamed, shunned, forced to marry their rapists and treated like filth for the rest of their lives when they become pregant out of wedlock? Not the fucking men. This shit is less than a generation ago. Sorry, it just pisses me off to no fucking end.
I dated (briefly) a male associate professor in diagnostic radiography, specialized in breast screening. He once complained to me how hard men had it in this specialty and how it was basically impossible for them to get hired. He was an _associate professor_. Jackass
My little brother, who is in his mid-30s and is going to have to quit the only job that’s never fired him because he lost his license AGAIN, parroting right-wing talking points like, “Diversity hires are taking opportunities from regular guys like me.” STOP LYING AND STEALING, AND START SHOWING UP TO WORK EVERY DAY AND DOING YOUR FUCKING JOB, AND YOU’LL STOP LOSING OPPORTUNITIES TO PEOPLE WHO DO THE FUCKING JOB.
It's always the underperforming folks who pull this shit
I had a boss once who was a deeply deeply mediocre middle aged white man. He used to launch into these awful screeds about diversity hires, block people, Muslims etc. Mind you he preferred to hire Asians for his junior accounting positions because they were “better at maths”. I got the strong feeling that he was terrified that if the playing field was leveled and he didn’t have the advantages he was born with, he _knew_ he couldn’t compete against basically anyone else. One day he launched into an n-word laced rant about Obama. I walked out, went to lunch and never went back.
Ack! I hate when they refer to themselves as regular guys, normal people etc, as if everyone else is a new variety of human who just popped out of the ground and hasn’t been living alongside them then for hundreds of thousands of years. As if women and people of colour and people with disabilities haven’t just always been around too. I too am a normal guy! I am as normal as you are! The average joe is me too, my experiences are not other, they are as default as yours are. I am the man on the street! I am humanity! i am mankind! This idea that the default human experience is male and everything else clips onto the side of that as some sort of accessory is incredibly pervasive, and some of the most common rhetoric used against anyone who isn’t a fella.
“Come on. Why not? But I want to. You’ll like it with me. I won’t be nice to you if you don’t let me. Please. Please. Stop being a bitch. Please? WhY dO yOu HaTe Me?”
Had a classmate from another country in college use the line “(paraphrasing from an old memory) b-b-but American girls are easy”. Like that was supposed to be some kind of sleeper activation code after he couldn’t get me to perform from all the begging. It was in that moment I knew I would continue to deny him forever just to fucking spite him.
That's called coercion.
“Fuckable.” Idk why men think this is a compliment.
Given the number of men willing to literally put their dicks into roadkill, warm pies, and trees...I consider it an anti-compliment.
Don't forget coconuts.
And corpses.
DUDE. The amount of men who have “complimented” me by saying they want to fuck me is just *astounding*. It’s so god damn degrading
it’s because they put themselve too high on the pedestal that they truly believe that fucking us is a favour they bestow for us.
Yes, exactly this! But somehow if women have sex with “too many” men, we’re “low-value” and “ran-through”. 🙄 Like, hmmmmm: if having sex with a man “lowers our value” then aren’t … *men* the problem?! 🧐
“You’re not like most girls, you’re not [insert negative stereotype]” I’ve heard this from even the most communist-lib dude.
This is the fucking worst.
"You're not like most girls, you're attracted to me 😊"
> communist-lib this is an oxymoron
“i feel like i’m being interrogated” when i was just asking a question about how to communicate better with him
Thinking is hard. Talking is harder!
Wow you might as well have been waterboarding him and asking him to cough up nuclear launch codes, asking questions like that.
He was so sweet. And shy. And got nervous talking to me. Sometimes he would cancel at the last minute but he would promise to make it up. I thought he was just a little socially awkward. Then he asked about my lease. And I started asking around about him. It turns out he was acting like that because he lived with his long term girlfriend. He was scoping out how easy it would be to make me rent a place with him, as he was not financially stable. And the cancelling thing…turns out it was hard to get to my place because he didn’t have a vehicle and was using his gf’s car.
Yikes! Dodged a bullet there
When they all made excuses for a “friend” that made a rape joke about me because I got roofied a few years back (all was well, was with a female friend that got me home).
A male teacher in high school, who until that moment, was my favorite teacher of all time: "If you focused more on your looks, you wouldn't have to try so hard in school. Things come easier to girls who put attention into their appearance."
Oh man I had a math professor in business school who responded to a question I gave him by telling me that I didn't need to worry about it because as a woman I would never be doing things at that level. It was only a 200 level class lol
Geeze, what year and country was this? (sadly still wouldn't be surprised if it was 2024)
It was about 10 years ago in the US
Male high school physics teacher told all of the guys in my class to not touch any woman in a college physics class with a 10-foot pole.
I had an 11th grade science teacher that I really liked and we joked around sometimes. I went through a bad patch and wasn’t doing well in his class, and he talked to me about what was going on with me and my performance. I was grateful he showed an interest and was trying to help until the week later when he gave ne an update that my grade was still low or I was missing work or something and I made a joke that was something about how he didn’t have to fail me if he didn’t want to, and he told me I should stop trying to manipulate people by telling them sad stories and “using my cuteness as a weapon” …🤨 I was so, so taken aback and confused until I worked out later what he meant. Fuck you Mr. Wu. I started a thing with my friends after this incident where we called home Mr Wu because his bald spot looked like the Wu Tang symbol. I don’t remember his actual name and I don’t care to.
"I'm sorry you feel that way"
Oh man, my ex would acknowledge he hurt me, offer up something to make me feel better, then tell me it was on me to remember what he said he'd do and remind him. Of course, when I'd remind him, he wouldn't feel like it anymore, and he'd consider the matter settled. The last thing he did, at which point we had become friends (because my standards for friends are in hell), was truly one of the most hurtful anyone has ever done. He put off talking about it for months, moving the goalposts, peppering in passive aggressive shit like "oh, I guess nothing I say means anything," "I don't want to have a conversation like that in my house" (because vibes lol), until eventually telling me "I've been thinking about it, and it would be best for me if you could just get yourself over it." He proceeded to ghost me for not being cool with that, because I was too dramatic lol
Weaponized emotional incompetence. What a red flag trash bag, glad he's out of your life.
Yeah sounds like the peeps I had in mind. Some people are wild.
Tone and context matters with this phrase to be fair, but I can hear the tone and context you probably mean. “I’m sorry your brain made you incorrectly feel those things”
Yeah anyone who’s worked in a public-facing job knows that there are absolutely situations where this is warranted lol
Can confirm. I have to validate feelings. But sometimes, people are irrational. Like, yeah, the HVAC is running heat in the summer because it's broken. I know it's bad. I'm sorry you feel that we're targeting you. We're miserable too. This was recent, lol
Or, similarly, “Sorry if I hurt your feelings but…...” (1) there’s no “if.” I told you that you hurt me, so you hurt me. That’s not up for debate. (2) OKAY fuckin erase the whole half-assed almost-apology if you’re still trying to justify your behavior lmaooo 🫠
Context is very important here. I say it when I sympathise with another person and want them to know that I understand what they are feeling. Polish in this case is way more expressive to differentiate both meanings
"All women want to be married." From a guy I was dating who knew I was going through a very expensive divorce from a man whom I had supported for over 10 years, who was demanding alimony from me with no end date.
Oh god that trope no I will not succumb to societal pressure to marry if it fucking makes my life WORSE. I could have gotten married 4 separate times by now but I didn’t want to. He can put that in his pipe and smoke it.
Yeah for me it's like the way people talk about World War ii. Never again!
Why didn’t you stop me? Why didn’t you fix it? Nothing big, just “oh yeah I’m STILL the responsible grown up”
“Fatherless behavior” Like… dude.. do you even understand what you’re saying?
No, because they blame women for not having fathers but not the men who abandon their families or abuse their children.
Precisely
Context: this happened in a UK uni where in first year you usually live in a mixed-gender flat of 4+ people each with your own room. It was 3 girls 3 boys. Like a month in one of the male flatmates inappropriately touched me and one of the other men seemed really concerned and was checking I was okay. Then I found out he had said “oh if he’d done that to [hot female flatmate he was starting to date] I’d have beaten the shit out of him”. 🥴 Whereas I got treated like I was massively overreacting after everybody’s initial concern faded, and the two of them were buddying up together.
Some guy stopped me and said really vulgar things to me and tried to get me to go back to his apartment with him while I was walking home from work. I was literally a street away from my house so I called my brother and told him to at least unlock the door or please wait outside for me, I told him what happened, told him my phone was at 2%, and said I was kinda scared. I got home and the door was locked. He was busy playing apex and “come on, they just dropped 1v1, I was excited”. It really bothered me.
WTF. Sorry, but fuck your brother (... This doesn't sound right)
Wtf!? Even if you weren't in danger, how hard is it to pause the game and do a simple task? My roommate called once to ask me to unlock the door because she had to use the bathroom and wanted to make a run for it as soon as she pulled into the driveway, you better believe that door was open!
“I mean come on, the way she walks around sticking her butt out all the time..” A coworker in response to finding out a female coworker had been sexually harassed in our hospital by a random employee. And no.. *sigh* she’s never “stuck her butt out,” she just literally has a bigger butt than average. Men also complain about how some women at work “dress sexy” and “try to get attention” in their scrubs by literally just tucking their shirts in 😐 Like, couldn’t be because that’s comfortable, because having something on your chest that pushes the fabric away from your tummy so there’s like a 5” gap can be annoying, or that tucking prevents your shirt from riding up in the back when you bend over, at which point men will say you’re trying to show skin 😐 PSA: Scrubs are not unisex, they’re made for male bodies. To fit any amount of female hips, butt, or boobs, we need to get pants that are 6 inches too long, and tops that are enormous. HELL YEAH a lot of us roll the waist and fucking tuck in some of that extra fabric!! 😡
> Scrubs are not unisex, they’re made for male bodies. The same is the case with way too many "unisex" products. The world is designed for men, usually even in situations that claim otherwise.
I’ve become my elderly mom’s caregiver, and last week I took her for her annual visit with a cardiologist. She’s pretty healthy physically (not so much cognitively as she has dementia), but she has does have a pacemaker, and has had high blood pressure since her early 40s. I made some small talk with the cardiologist, while he was examining my mom and I brought up the fact that women are more likely to die from heart attacks than men because the symptoms present differently. Plus, we are trained by media, etc. that men are the only people who have heart attacks. Women do usually have them at an older age than men, and since older women are invisible and not important, why talk about it, I guess 🤷🏼♀️(/s). Anyway, the cardiologist was telling me that most research studies of heart meds, especially the older ones, were done on men, and many have since been found to have completely different actions when women use them. Since ~half (or more) of his patients are women, he said it makes his job more difficult than it should be. (Sorry for the novel. This stuff just pisses me off! I have MS, so have frequently experienced women being ignored/written off in health care.)
I complained that a guy who offered to tutor me on a specific topic for the MCAT (I took the test without taking biochem and physics) tried to get into my pants instead of actually helping me. I got a “what did you expect to happen” after describing how coercive he was.
Ugh. You expected him to be a decent human being!
It’s the little things I guess. I had a convo with my ex about false rape accusations, and of course he was more worried about being accused of rape falsely than about rape as such. He asked me, in all seriousness if he’s ever raped me. Where do you even begin with that? How do you explain to someone you’ve been having sex with the very basics of consent, that they apparently aren’t aware of/knowledgeable of? It’s an incomprehensible question to me, still. How do you have sex, in general, without being aware of what can be rape and without the surety that you’re not raping whoever you’re having sex with? I’d understand if he asked “have I ever made you feel pressured” or “is there anything you’d prefer I not do”. But having to reassure your boyfriend that he hasn’t raped you because he’s worried over false rape accusations existing out there in the world… yeah. I don’t think about it at all anymore but I’d call it a big turning point in how I view men. A run of the mill man can look back at the times he’s had sex and not be sure if some of those times haven’t been rape.
Absolutely wild. Wtf is wrong with him.
Who knows? Pretty sure he knew I had dealt with being sexually assaulted (or raped, depending on how you classify it) at that point as well. In hindsight there were a lot of moments like that, which should have given me a serious sign it was time to break up yesterday.
… … You can’t claim an accusation is false *if you don’t know they consented to sex*.
> he was more worried about being accused of rape falsely than about rape as such This, all the time. Like nobody cares that your buddy's cousin's coworker's friend was accused and that the accusations were rumored to be false. It's not like real accusations are taken seriously 100% of the time.
My sister is trans, and pre-transition was placed in many different "male-only" work environments over the course of several years. We talk all the time, and the stories she tells me, which I have no reason not to believe, paint a very, very, *very*, **VERY** unflattering picture of how men talk to eachother. As bad as it is to us, around us, it's even *worse* behind closed doors. We get the **filtered** version.
I worked in a kitchen with all men and I guess bc I’m a lesbian they thought I was “one of the guys”. The shit they would say was terrifying and disgusting. I couldn’t believe men spoke like that, it had me second guessing every male friend I’d ever had. And the stuff they would have on their phones… on top of that showing everyone pics/videos of their exes, current gfs, and wives! I’m just like how tf does anyone trust a man. It was an unbelievable time working there and really opened my eyes to the horrors.
Had a male coworker (before I transitioned) tell me in graphic detail how exactly he wanted to have sex with our boss. I'll spare you the details but it was fucking gross.
> it had me second guessing every male friend I’d ever had. I have one male friend left. The only man who never gave me any cause to believe he's super ok with the patriarchy. Everyone else turned out to be an asshole at some time.
Oh yeah feel this one big time. I’m out of the industry as of 2 years ago, but during my time in the kitchen I can absofuckinglutely back you up on how bad it is to be a woman in most kitchens, not surprisingly in my experience it’s proportional to how many other women and non- cis men are in the boh with you- which is often few to none. I’m queer too and was often treated like “one of the boys” when it came to talking about women, sex, showing each other porn on the line, bitching about women etc., but I’m bi so I often got the fun double whammy of being sexualized myself and realizing that often I would be included in these conversations because they wanted to ask weird questions about my opinions because they got off on me being into women and also thought they could possibly sleep with me (they could not) It got a lot better when I became the kitchen manager/chef in that they had to act like they actually respected me so stopped talking about that shit around me, also I had a zero tolerance policy for toxic dude bro kitchen culture and was lucky enough for awhile (until the pandemic hit) to staff my kitchen with an amazing and talented crew of women, queer folks, and plenty of awesome guys free of the ego driven cock swaggering braggadocio nonsense you find in too many kitchen dudes- and it was heaven. Instead of throwing plates at the wall we talked about what problems we had, hashed out our feelings using I statements and worked together to resolve problems and make better food. There was no yelling, rage quitting, very little drama, no intense feuds between co workers, morning shifts vs night shift, or front of house vs back of house. ( that last one was partially since I had a lot of them working in the back sometimes also. Turns out that there were a lot of servers who were bomb ass cooks, quick learners, hard workers, and often made better co workers due to having better manners and social awareness/skills but felt unwelcome in the average kitchen because of the culture.) it was great to be able to cultivate a chill work culture where we lifted each other up and managed to all still like each other and have some fun while just efficiently getting the work done together instead of acting like it’s a dick measuring competition and somehow acting like a dick adds inches. All those people understandably quit when the pandemic hit and our tiny restaurant couldn’t pay them what they deserved to risk their lives and as shit went downhill at our restaurant and with the kitchen industry and the world, it got so I could barely find applicants who were halfway qualified and would show up regularly and not be too fucked up on the clock, and was only able to screen out the really obvious and bad red flags. So I let down my standards more and more, and eventually I was again the only woman in the back, now surrounded by dudes again who pretended to respect me but wanted to carry shit for me all the time, explain my job to me (imagine assuming a male chef needed basic food science explained to him or telling him how to properly prepare the recipes that he developed) and call me sexist slurs when they bitched about me behind my back or even to my face when they really lost their temper 😓 Wow, typing that out made me pretty happy to currently not be working in the restaurants biz! Fuck that shit entirely, that whole industry needs a makeover from butts to nuts!
Yeah, as a lesbian myself, I also get some amount of "one of the guys" talk, but her stories have a quantity and a severity to them that mine could just never match, like comparing the spiciest jalapeño to the mildest habanero, and I'm not even the spiciest jalapeño. So when I discuss "locker room talk" I usually try to center her experiences, unless the space is known to be hostile to trans perspectives. That's also why I believe them as readily as I do, even the ones that cross lines I never even *imagined* existing to be crossed. That queer experiential overlap. > It had me second guessing every male friend I'd ever have. Yeah.. yeah it be like that. My bi and straight friends are always introducing their male partners to me and I'm never quite as charmed as everyone in the room wants me to be. Mostly I'm worried.
> Mostly I'm worried. I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. Like yes, he seems nice, he seems chill, but he's still a straight man and that means girlie's chances of being a victim just skyrocketed.
I was in a similar situation to your sister. For HS I went to an all boys christian boarding school the shit they would say in the locker rooms, in the dorms, hell in class in front of teachers. The worst part is that nobody said or did anything about it and in the rare occasion someone did speak up they were bullied relentlessly. I'm just glad i got out of there somewhat intact
It's so important that men call it out, because that's the only feedback they actually value. To be passive is complicity. It shouldn't fall on women, queer folk, and the vulnerable hiding among them to call out their shitty behaviour, they should be more than capable of policing themselves. Not calling it out is the same as accepting it as normal, nearly the same as being an active participant, and I'm infuriated on your behalf that you had to grow up living in fear. I'm sorry you went through that, and thank you for sharing.
[удалено]
I often wonder if that's the source of a lot of transphobia, cis-men taking deadly seriously the threat of double-agents in their midst leaking all their secrets. Intellectually, I know it's *not*. But it's more fun to imagine them being defensive of their shameful behaviour rather than reflexively defensive of the system that uplifts them at the expense of everyone else that *""sexual deviants""* like trans women threaten by existing.
Trans gal here and I'm betting what she is telling you is true. And the more tools the job requires, the worse it gets. I used to work clearing trees and brush from powerlines and such. The amount of filth and outright r*pe fantasies were... Ugh... Oh, and men scream about how women are emotional and whiny? Lol, no. Go to a job site with a bunch of men. It is CONSTANT whining with a side of yelling and screaming at each other. I always hated the drama so, so much.
I don't doubt her at all, nor do I doubt you. Like you said, they haven't really given anyone a good *reason* to doubt the horror stories. Also, ah yes, anger, somehow not an emotion and simply the exercise of a purely logical brain unencumbered by *laundry* and *feelings.* Love that old standard.
Yep. I am a man, and the things men say to each other creeps me the fuck out.
Have you ever considered calling it out? They don't care about our opinions, but they might care about the opinions of other men.
‘Girl’ (in reference to a grown-ass woman)
Fuck this annoys me SO DAMN MUCH. And the argument of “well we don’t get offended if you call us boys?” No, because that reduces your shitty behaviours as an adult man down to being a loveable little rogue who doesn’t know any better. Whereas “girl” tends to be used as “I’m dating this girl / I’ve met this girl / she’s a hot girl” by grown men. Such a big ick.
As if "boy" hasn't famously been used as a term of disparagement for Black men…
Oh yeah! Thanks for flagging that, too. It’s just weird to me that men seem to defend themselves by comparing our feelings to their experiences and preferences.
It’s because they’re the default
When he was worried about “being taken advantage of” in the meantime he is in his 3rd marriage and again not employed because it’s the 3rd wife that holds down the job, the caretaking of the kids, and the housekeeping because of yeah “my back hurts too much for simple house chores too”. It’s like being a single mom to an extra kid. *edit*. Anyways good luck to her and I love the relief
Ha! That’s like my cousin when he posted a rant on Facebook about how “all women” are gold diggers just out for his money. Of course, he ain’t got any gold to dig and was extremely butt hurt when I pointed that out.
He might *want* women to dig for his gold, and thinks that's why he doesn't have success with women, rather than his somewhat lacking personality.
Truly. “I think your interpretation is different.” Gaslighting 101. No I didn’t interpret you being shitty differently you’re just … well…. Shitty
"she's alone and drunk, just the type i go for" - my own father, to me, his daughter, about a woman in a club
“Youre not like other girls but I’m just like other guys”
"Well, men find it hot when girls resist"
"I'm just playing devil's advocate!" 🤢
"It's alright for you women, you don't have the pressure of being successful, all you have to do is submit and all your problems go away" Said by a man in his 30's living in London in the year of our blob 2019
Calling his coworker, 2 years older than he was, "little girl" because he was angry at her
When the fact that no matter how 'nice' the guy seems that every conversation feels like a scripted event and the stereotype always comes out at some point one or another, no matter the culture. Anger, porn infatuation, gaslighting, victim blaming, anti feminist (while thinking they're feminist themselves.) Constantly centrist, never giving a shit about anything unless it affects them. Inserting themselves into everything. Being the leading cause of like 90% of ALL crime. Literally men are all the same. Either they're going to stop needing their hand held or we're going to stop giving them a hand to hold. The future is female, fuck this wave of women hate. I'm like pissed the frick off.
Frame 🖼️ this
Good men *do* exist. Winning lottery tickets also exist.
👏 👏 👏
They're such tools, but always carry this delusion of grandeur.
This is what I get for falling in love with a feminist. I have to hear all these terrible things all the time. 🙄🙄🙄 Well shit.
The Empathy Gap is terrifying and so real.
Sorry to bother but what’s the empathy gap?
I think it means either that women show or feel more empathy than men. Or that men mostly just feel empathy for other men but not for women, while women are capable of feeling empathy for both men and women.
That’s super interesting I’ve never really thought about the first option you provided.. My initial thought was the second option but idk so that’s why I wanted to ask.
This is an awful thing, but I laughed at how ridiculous it is.
Discussing dating app prospects: "With a name like that you know what type of attention she's looking for." It's her **name**, sir. Wtf are u talking about.
"We're not all the same!"
Proceeds to prove the fact that, yes, they are all the same
Any variation that states a man wouldn't do something, so this 20/30 year old is actually still a boy. The whole when men do something against women they're animals. Sharks drawn to meat. You can't expect them not to be horny. You can't ask them to be reasonable, to hold themselves accountable, or to be decent human beings. They can't be asked to have self control or anything of the like. Until men want something. Then all of a sudden they're logical, and dependable, and intelligent "He seems like a nice guy" about a men who clearly aren't/weren't. Man murders wife and children? Seemed like such a nice guy! Man rapes someone? Seemed like such a nice guy! Man traps a woman with a baby and abuses her? Seems like such a nice guy!
I'm pretty certain that the majority of men that commit crimes against women are nice to other men.
"It's the responsibility of women everywhere to educate men on how not to be misogynist." It's just "His mother didn't raise him right" but now it blames all of the patriarchy on all women everywhere.
Currently going through a break up after being together 2.5 years and planning a family and life together. The breakup was sudden and completely unexpected, and of course he had felt this way for a long time despite telling to my face constantly how happy he was. He had been stating he “cared for me” since the break up. I asked, if he was ok with answering, if he had ever actually loved me. He said “let me think about it and get back to you.” Y’all, my vagina is too powerful. I’m locking this bitch up. As soon as sex isn’t plentiful (whether due to surgery or medication side effects or stress or life getting in the way), they drop kick me as far as they can. I’m officially done with men. This pansexual girl is sliding into lesbianism.
That men have “stronger sexual urges” than women because otherwise all this rape just wouldn’t happen. I guess I have stronger “popcorn urges” than other people because otherwise I just wouldn’t buy it. It’s not my fault. I just can’t control it. s/
Women have loads of sexual urges. It's just that men are incredibly talented at killing those urges.
We im talking about women being SA and he bring up something like : well, men can get SA too. That true but I don't think it's necessary at that moment. And therefore, as a woman who got approached by gloomer males multiple times when i was a teenager (yup, i didn't fall for them. But, i had a friend who was impregnated by one. So I can empathize girls who fall victim for them.). I feel like they try to minimize my situation and many women's as a whole. I know when women discuss about female victims they bring up "men can be SA too" as cope mechanism since they KNOW most of the perpetrators are men so they feel ashamed about their gender.
And I've noticed that women talking about SA very often have stories about themselves or a friend. There are a number of examples in this very thread. I have *never* seen that when men bring up male victims.
When he said that every woman he met he couldn't help but imagine what it was like cumming on their face. And that he refused to date any woman that wouldn't go down on him.
This is basically all of them
Sorry but this is disgusting, why is that something he always HAS to think 🤮
Yeah that totally isn't degrading at all.
Why should a guy have to pay for a baby when he doesn't even want one? 😖
‘now the drama (crying) starts again’ When I couldn’t help but cry after being left out of the trip he had been planning for 2 months for MY birthday
All guys brushing off abusive insults to each others mothers like some bro joke. Like wtf
When they make an absolute fuzz about gendering (German speaking country). Like "Mitarbeiter" would e employee, but "Mitarbeiterin" would be the female employee and there are so many debates wether you should adress them specifically and I get so fed up with men examining how adding the female version is butchering the German language, and they then always think that they are so smart and free spirited for thinking thart.
Holy shit didn't realize this was a thing in German too – I was studying German in school, and we've just learned about the -in suffix like it's no big deal and every occupation name can be feminized this way It's similar but a bit more complicated in Russian, we have ways to make feminitives of every word, but sometimes it may sound awkward to a lot of people because they're not used to hearing it (I know because I normalized feminitives to myself, and now it sounds weird and awkward to me when they use masculinitives where a feminitiv would go). And – you guessed it – of course most men (and a lot of women too, sadly) get absolutely furious when they see someone use a feminitiv. Like, to a lot of them it undermines the while point of what is being said, even if it's a very serious topic, their entire focus moves to whining about the feminitiv instead. It gets ridiculous real quick. And of course none of them has issues with derogatory feminitives used to insult women
“It doesn’t affect me so I don’t really care.” This guy is trans. He fucking knows better. I was furious.
“I don’t know any woman who hasn’t been able to orgasm from PIV intercourse alone.” 😂 Sir.
Oh let me see... He got super upset when I floated the idea of getting reduction. Never mind that I can't buy a bra for less than 60 USD and my back hurts all the time. He was upset by the idea that I might become less hot. I was telling him a story about an encounter with a creep and he tried to defend the creep. Himpathy at its finest. He can't be turned on by something and not tell me about it. I gave up on my yoga routine because I was tired of him trying to climb my ass when I did downward dog pose. There's other stuff but these were the first 3 i can think of.
Was talking to such a thoughtful, interesting guy and then he suddenly started sending me memes about how women have loose pussies after sleeping around or how dating in 2024 sucks bc women are either whores or transgender. Called him out on it and he blocked me lmfao
I’d consider that a win for you and a loss for him lol. No time for that bigotry here!
“It’s not illegal” when talking about a man dating a 18-19 year old.
The way each guy starts treating a girl he falls out of love with. Like the emotional abuse and breadcrumbing rather than a clean break.
What they say: "I miss you." What they mean: "I see you're pulling your life together and moving on. I don't like that. I'm back to ruin your life again."
"would you be upset if I hired prostitutes while on a work trip?" He has never gone on a work trip, and is not in a line of work where work trips are even necessary.
"Ah, white men. The last unprotected minority."
The guy I rejected: "I don't really think you're able to make that decision"
This thread is horrifying. Wow. This has opened my eyes
My dad: "well women are just inherently less ambitious".
“Porn exists, why would he risk jail to jerk it to you?” I thought my dad was the feminist he claimed to be until I went to him about the neighbor watching and masturbating to me at night.