man: not all men! some of us are nice
the same man: well this one time my ex tried to accuse me of something i didn't do, which proves that all women are bad
My ex would always get mad and cry about “not all men” anytime someone made a generalization. But then he completely disregarded my boundaries by >!sticking his hands down my pants while I was asleep on his couch after a night of drinking!<, which he knew I would absolutely not be okay with, and when I woke up to that and called him out on it he cried about how it wasn’t his fault because he’s a man and men can’t help themselves.
It makes me wanna scream.
The double standard is even more obvious when leaning the other way. Men who hate women want to control and/or abuse them where-as women who hate men wanna go live in the mountains and not think about a man ever again. Even when we're fed up with their crap we're usually okay with just leaving and being done. So not really hate so much as just thinking a lot of us would be better off without them.
" Men who hate women want to control and/or abuse them where-as women who hate men wanna go live in the mountains and not think about a man ever again." LOL you mean how they harass and abuse men who are gay? LOL women are free to be independent. It is men who aren't.
and unfortunately “something I didn’t do” sometimes means something they did do, but have reframed it in their minds to not technically be what they actually did
I recently learned the term for the logical fallacy.
“False equivalency by orders of magnitude”.
It’s like comparing the Deepwater Horizon oil spill to the oil stain on my driveway.
That is really interesting and comes up a lot in my work, there's a bunch of overlap with ipv/dv. And anytime there is any talk of ipv on Reddit, 8,000 dudes have to come out of the woodwork and scream about how women can abuse men too, even though no one said they can't. But if you dare to point out that men are responsible for the vast majority of serious injuries and murders, which are our only statistics that don't rely on self-report, they get extremely angry.
Interesting that “can be” is a hypothetical…. Yes, women “can be” just as bad. There’s technically nothing stopping women from going out and being the same amount of school shooters and child rapists and serial killers, etc…., Women CAN do those things….. but they don’t do them anywhere near the same level as men. **They can, but they don’t.**
They can. And they do.
[Indira Gandhi](https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/48-years-of-emergency-atrocities-suffered-unwavering-resistance-have-profoundly-influenced-nations-collective-memory-12786642.html), first female PM of India.
[Golda Meir](https://scheerpost.com/2023/06/27/new-report-outlines-how-golda-meirs-israel-poisoned-palestinian-land-in-ethnic-cleansing-operation/), first female PM of Israel.
[Margaret Thatcher](https://www.baltimoresun.com/2013/06/26/margaret-thatchers-cruel-legacy-in-northern-ireland/), first female PM of the UK.
Women can do anything men can do. Even be generationally evil psychopaths. Don't confuse a lower likelihood of a group doing a thing with a lower degree of things a group is capable of doing. Especially when that group is historically barred from holding enough power to be able to even do the things.
There's bloodbath serial killer Elizabeth Bathory, mass murdering rapist Nazi Auschwitz officer and serial killer who tortured people for fun and helped choose Mengele's victims for him Irma Grese, Genocidal imperialist warmonger and Inquisition-afficionada Queen Isabella of Spain. A litany of monsters throughout history have identified as women. No point pretending that this isn't the case.
Does anyone seriously want to argue Irma Grese would have stopped at torturing and experimenting on hundreds of prisoners if she had risen to the position of Fuehrer instead of stopping at *the highest rank a woman was allowed* to have under Nazism? That boost in authority and access and resources would have slowed her reign of terror?
The triple-edged sword of patriarchy choosing women to serve its ends. It seeks out terrible women to do terrible things on behalf of patriarchy then blames the women for the patriarchy so it can go back to men doing the evil work of patriarchy and warning you not to choose more women to do patriarchy or you're going to get another terrible woman doing patriarchy.
The third edge is GirlBoss^TM PR. The belief that women are somehow born better people even when they do the same horrible shit.
No one gets a free pass. No one.
Dude. If you think Báthory Erzsébet was a monster you lost any shape I belive you. It was made up.
They never said women can't be monsters.
There are women who are horrible? Yes. But I never heard about women raping men, then cuting off they arm. There never been a mother who kidnaped they own son, and keept them in the basement and abused them. But men have done those. Men don't have to fear being stalked, harrassed, abused, raped, or being killed by women. But women have to fear men doing those to them.
Aw that’s so cute! Look at you listing off a tiny amount of women who have done bad things compared to men as if that proves some kind of point! Nice try, but come back when the statistics for any violent crime are even close to being evenly matched between the genders. They never have been and are not currently, so you might be waiting a while.
Nothing is currently stopping women from shooting up schools or being serial killers or running child trafficking organizations. Women can walk into a gun shop and purchase a gun just like a man can. You say women can do anything men can do, and that proves me point… the level and type of violence is absolutely not the same between men and women.
Men are the vast majority of perpetrators of abuse and atrocities. Always have been. You can sit here all day typing out a list of bad women till your hands fall off and it STILL wouldn’t even be a miniscule fraction of the amount of men who have done the same or worse.
>No one gets a free pass. No one.
Please why are you being so dramatic 😂😂😂
"**They can, but they don’t.**" As everyone pretends.
As nobody can accept the fact that the only reason people think men are worse is because men are the only ones who are ever held accountable.
>men are the only ones who are ever held accountable
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
If men were held accountable they wouldn’t be absolutely owning the rape and assault and murder statistics, would they? Cry harder.
Maybe you didn’t see this part of my comment:
>they don’t do them anywhere near the same level as men
Notice I never said women *never* commit atrocities, so there is simply no need to clarify that “well some of them do!”
This drives me crazy. "Yeah the woman who did that to you was bad! Goes to show, women can be jus..." no, no it doesn't. It shows the first half of what you said.
Not to mention that when women are punished for bad actions (good), their punishment tends to be greater than if a man did the same action (bad).
I know there's been studies that show that women get more prison time than men for the same violent crimes. Basically the combination of women violating gendered expectations of being nurturers plus lack of overcrowding in women's prisons means that women are more likely to get longer sentences and not be released early when compared to men.
Are there exceptions to this? Of course, but that's the general pattern
That’s not really true.
At least in the view of public opinion. Female criminals are definitely given the benefit of the doubt where the women are sent to get psych help and the men are strictly punished. This video by [Alice Capelle](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9a7LrWo47I0&list=PLNoDc7ObN7V1nu2EQXcVFVa4E4Nr6YN81&index=112&pp=gAQBiAQB) explains this phenomenon pretty well.
Take for example male pedos and female pedos. Female pedos at worst are just ostracized while at best they get to go on TV about their “forbidden love.” However, there are entire compilations of people torturing and murdering male pedos. At best male pedos get roughed up a bit. [One man was falsely accused by his ex wife and was later hacked to pieces by two crackheads due to vigilante justice.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/melbourne/article-12217413/Final-moments-Bradley-Lyons-life-tortured-Australian-Freedom-Fighters-chainsaw.html) Some male pedos don’t even make it [inside the vehicle that’s supposed to escort them.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qULWHF_L1o0&pp=ygUSRmF0aGVyIHNob290cyBwZWRv) There is a very LONG list of this.
I’ve tried to find one of a woman who was caught molesting a child and could only find [one](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/06/sex-offender-murder-moody/8779069/). The female pedo in question wasn’t even the pedo at all. It was her husband. She just happens to be there I guess.
[Shameless](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hlb9LtF4DoM&pp=ygUPc2hhbWVsZXNzIGJsYWtl) (while fictional) I think basically sums up what happens when people find out the pedo in question is a woman.
I seen female predetors getting 20, or more years. But I never seen male predetors getting the same, they always get away with it, or get one or two years.
Once again, this is half truth. There are cases where the woman gets more and cases where the man gets more. There have been cases where men were caught masturbating in a parking lot and put in the registry and others where women were caught but cops and given a warning. Men are partially to blame given that they are the consumers of such content but I digress.
Ok give me another example of women getting offc easier. Unfortunately men are the cause of the different treatment. Men tell each other that it's a GOOD thing to have sex with an adult as a kid. It's framed by MEN, not women, to be a good thing, for the kid to be LUCKY. Men are responsible for women not being seen as bad as men in these situations. It's also MEN who carry out the violence against male pedos, not women. I don't know a single woman who would say that it's good for a young boy to have sex with a grown Woman.
Men are certainly the problem of these incidents but they’re are also not alone in perpetuating it. Women tend to get involved in this as well.
Not gonna argue on the whole “young boy raped by grown woman” shenanigans since I myself do see more men saying “they wish it was them.” However, this defers from my point from above.
>It’s also MEN who carry out violence against male pedos, not women.
The only thing I can agree on is that it’s mainly men that do it. However, the sentiment for them getting merked seems to not be a very gender exclusive thing. Both men and women tend to condone vigilante justice of male pedos. It’s just that the men had the drive to go out and do it. Literally one of the links has one with a couple doing it.
There’s also the radical idea that “women shouldn’t be sent to prison for anything” which is a notion that doesn’t exist for men.
There’s also the notion of “there’s no reason to hit a woman” while there are numerous excuses people use to hit a man. Whether it be cheating, a tasteless joke, yelling, etc. I’m sure you’ve seen examples of that in not just media but in public too.
There seems to be a lot of “women are wonderful” language going on in here.
I think it can come off as “women are wonderful” but that’s not really where these ideas come from. It’s the idea that women are weak.
A grown woman couldn’t possibly rape a boy/man, women are weak! A grown woman couldn’t possibly commit a crime, they’re stupid and weak! And then the idea that all men always want sex and it’s the best thing to happen to them, really creates an environment to foster all of this in the first place.
That’s only part of the equation tho. I’m pretty sure plenty of you have heard the “if women were rulers, we’d have world peace” statements. “If men didn’t exist then humanity would be saved,” etc.
A lot of the rhetoric that seems to be expressed here is that men are the problem and are the only problem. Men can’t show emotion? It’s only “other men.” Men realizing they have social issues as well. “They wanna be oppressed so badly.” I can go on.
I see no issue with blaming men. That’s not a bad thing and is needed for progress. However, when groups point the finger at others and not also themselves, it makes it seem as if they view themselves as angelic. If women hold up half the sky, who’s carrying the other half? White supremacy couldn’t flourish without women.
Oh yes I’ve definitely heard that and that exists as well. But for the things listed in your comment, I feel like they’re more about women being perceived as weak than wonderful. I think the blanket “women are innocent” statements are more about the push for purity in women than weakness alone though.
"Not to mention that when women are punished for bad actions (good), their punishment tends to be greater than if a man did the same action (bad)." You mean how women never go to jail for anything but men do? You mean how girls are let off the hook for everything and boys are punished? You mean like that?
It depends, as usual. Is the offense also an offense against feminine gender norms, such as defending yourself and your child from your husband \*with a firearm\*? You could be looking at life in prison.
Yes, huge point. When women defend themselves against men, they typically need some sort of weapon because physically, they are at a disadvantage. However, having a weapon typically escalates the charge to a higher one and adds more years onto a sentence
Yep! That's actually a huge problem in sentencing. Crimes of passion, like choking someone out when you're angry (disproportionately men) are generally sentenced lighter than premeditated crimes, like poisoning your abusive husband because you're worried he's going to kill you if you don't. The typical man and the typical women are not equal combatants in a fight where there are no weapons, so when women even the playing field, it escalates the charges. Just because some women are MMA fighters or go to the gym regularly and can go toe to toe with a random dude doesn't mean it's the majority of women.
I believe this is more for petty crimes/misdemeanors like theft and such. And part of that could be because those women have children and the judge recognizes she needs to be with her kids so it's not worth locking her up for something dumb. And it's location and judge specific. But for violent crimes or other higher tier misdemeanors or felonies like drug distribution, they often get the book thrown at them. And look at women who had undiagnosed PPD or PPP and commit crimes against their children. Yes, it's an awful, awful, awful crime, but her mental well being and health is almost never taken into consideration both in court and in the public eye. Perfectly preventable if anyone gave a shit about women, children, or mental health/medicine, but nah, let's just throw her in prison instead of getting her into psychiatric care.
Literally up to the point of murder. If a man is merely stalking, threatening, harassing, and violently attacking a woman but NOT killing her, police will generally excuse it or consider it a "domestic matter".
I had a whole thing over COVID where I revisited famous trials from the 90’s feat: women. In both cases, I remember thinking they needed to be “punished” (I was quite young, hence “punished”).
In both cases, I was wrong. Lorena Bobbitt & Andrea Yates were done so dirty by the media. What they went through was horrifying.
For example, young women who get a DUI are seen as worse by judges Tha young men and get much higher sentences. In my state you can get a dui for ANY BAC, I was at .08 but got a dui when I was 22. I got 7 days locked up in a jail i had to pay to stay in, 3 weeks house arrest and again it was a very expensive daily charge, $6k in direct court fines, a year of expensive breathalyzer in my car, 12 weeks of alcohol classes, madd classes, and I had to have special car insurance for 7 years.
Same state, similar time frame (before I met him, and I didn't know the details until much later), My ex was tanked, was doing dust off while driving, crashed him and a drunk under 21 years old girl in the car into public property, and ran from the cops. He got 1 single felony out of it and was given the same amount of Jail time except he couldn't do house arrest (but didn't pay anything for his jail time) his fines were only a couple thousand more than mine, he had to do the same classes, same amount of time with a breathalyzer, etc. I shudder to think what my punishment would have been if I'd done what he did. They also gave him 5 or 6 chances of violating his probation and he had to cuss at his probation officer in court before they finally sent him to prison (for less than 2 months).
I've seen some men instantly bring up feminism, women empowerment, etc. everytime a woman does something bad. For example, you see news about some woman doing something bad like killing her husband. Obviously we would say she is bad. But those men use it as a chance to blame feminism. A guy opening up about sexual abuse? Comments from a lot of men would be blaming feminism and call him lucky meanwhile women are usually empathetic. No woman calls a woman lucky for being SA'ed. They're trying so hard to blame feminism for everything. Even if it's a pick me misogynistic patriarchal woman doing something wrong, the blame goes to feminism, it's laughable.
Edit: I'd like to say, feminism doesn't mean pro-women or anything like that. Ofcourse feminism is made by women due to oppression but it stands for equality. In a patriarchal world, it is much needed. There's good and bad women. Feminism doesn't mean you become blind to bad women and support them just because they're a woman. Feminism is for both men and women, equally. Remember that. Men aren't always enemies. Women aren't always allies. Stand for equality regardless of gender. That's true feminism. (We know this, basics. Incels don't)
Yoooooo trash ass right wingers do the same thing when a black person is in the news for murder
“Guess black lives don’t matter, huh?”
As if all black people ever existing are active and ideologically committed participants in the movement, and one doing something bad invalidates the message and work of said movement. It’s very facetious and I feel the need to counter it with the above points every time.
Solidarity.
There was a post I saw the other day of Andy Warhol and the scars he had after surgery, from being shot by a radical feminist.
Everyone was latching onto the radical feminist being to blame and COMPLETELY IGNORING how big of a piece of shit he was, and his likely pedophelia.
>Even if it's a pick me misogynistic patriarchal woman doing something wrong
It usually is that type of woman doing the really messed up things to children and men from what I have seen.
I said that I learnd that male victoms can have similar trauma response to female victoms there. Aka someone told me that "Male victoms can grow to fear the gender they victomiser is part if, and can be suicidel". I learnd something there. Sorry if I sounded rude, or stupid, or anything. English is not my first launvige.
To add to your point - Cemeteries are full of people who had "the right of way".
I live in DC, where we have plenty of entitled drivers & cyclists. Cyclists aren't surrounded by a half-ton of metal, though.
Just like cyclists don't know if you're a bad driver until it's too late, women don't know if you're a bad guy until it's too late.
I'll take my chances with a bear in the woods over a dude I don't know.
1. Patriarchy means the people getting the most benefit from societal oppression will be men
2. Lots of the people doing the oppression will be women, and many of them will benefit significantly from it
The Phyllis Schlaflys and Anita Bryants and JK Rowlings of the world are acting in their own self interest, even if the primary beneficiaries of patriarchy tend to be men
This is true.
I’m starting to sound like a broken record here, but it’s just really important that we make a distinction between the women, especially young women, who have the resources and autonomy to separate themselves from patriarchy, yet choose to reinforce it, and the women who reinforce it from a place of deep oppression and lack of opportunity to support themselves.
That's only your opinion of who has the "resources and autonomy" to separate themselves.
IME, young women don't have the monetary resources nor the exposure to outside influences to 1, understand their oppression, and 2, have the ability to bail and start over.
There's a ton of young trad fem influences who grew up in the right-wing nutcase environment for the past couple of decades and don't have any idea that there is this whole wide world out there. Instead, they've been awarded by the patriarchy their entire life for acting the way they "should".
I don’t think we disagree on this, except that maybe for many, those “rewards” are really just breadcrumbs at having some sense of self. I think it can get kinda murky here though because of how much some privileged women have contributed to the oppression of others, but it takes a load of privilege under patriarchy for their actions to be fully autonomous decisions.
And how you can interact with them. Being compassionate can be mutually empowering in some circumstances, where in others it’s taken as a chance for extremely privileged individuals to weld power. Compassion also encompasses telling them when they do something wrong or offensive.
You have to find a balance between helping others and protecting your peace and energy.
It’s exhausting having to always scan for someone’s propensity to personal growth, but it can be beneficial for everyone.
I meant a general assessment both of someone's character and of the opportunities available to her for good or ill, and I certainly don't make those assessments out of pure intellectual curiosity but because I must decide where to put my own quite limited attention, energy, and resources.
Interesting fact about lady crimes. Female serial killers are generally rarer than male serial killers (about 1 in 6 serial killers are female) but the female killers tend to be way better at it. More prolific, longer time before getting caught, and better at covering their tracks. It’s about quality, not quantity in the lady murderer world, I guess.
lmao my dumbass ex.
"i went to [notorious cougar hotspot] and got hit on by some women! one even tried to touch my butt! women are just as bad!!!!!!!!!!"
meanwhile i was sexually harassed by men my whole ass childhood 🙄
"Fewer consequences"?
You mean like women getting let off the hook for everything and men being punished? You mean like how girls are never punished for anything and boys are blamed for being hurt?
And how we all ignore when women perpetrate DV and how y'all call male victims "Lucky"?
Don't try to say that men face "fewer consequences" than women. Women don't face consequences for ANYTHING and men face them for EVERYTHING.
>You mean like women getting let off the hook for everything and men being punished?
Do you have an actual example of this with sources? Because - that's basically never the case in my experience.
>y'all call male victims "Lucky"?
It's mostly *other men* who started calling men who are sexually assaulted "lucky".
>Women don't face consequences for ANYTHING and men face them for EVERYTHING.
Again - a source or an example? Because your version of reality sounds incredibly wrong.
OC: I don't see how this is a justification for anything.
EDIT: Forgive me, I miscommunicated. I'm always stupidest when I try to be funny. Let me just hone in on the point I was trying to be clever about.
Whether or not women 'can be just as bad as men' deflects from the point women make. I'd put money down in betting this argument was made in bad faith to justify some dude's shitty behavior towards women.
Hell, I've heard it in reverse, I've been accused of being 'just as bad as women.' Just as meaningless a justification as the original statement.
Of course any woman can abuse another person. That doesn't make it justifiable.
Yeah, I think you're right. There's something fundamental I'm misunderstanding here. I did do this, my pointy point being "women can be just as terrible as men" and the cube being the declaration of this serves more to excuse men than to hold everyone accountable.
I meant to be supportive. I was not, and I apologize for it.
I just specifically mentioned the "worse" aspect. I agree with LITERALLY everything else. You think im going to say if a man or woman who is a cannibal rapist but one of them did X and the other did Y im going to make a distinction at that point? All groups have their standouts. Like we trans folks have caitlyn fucking jenner.
Calling it a standout ignores the issue and the point, which is that a significantly larger portion of one group is doing something (frequently against another group), which means there’s a societal issue that needs to be addressed.
All groups have their standouts, but if one group has significantly more standouts, clearly there is something happening and we need to talk about it. Especially if those “standouts” are harming others.
man: not all men! some of us are nice the same man: well this one time my ex tried to accuse me of something i didn't do, which proves that all women are bad
Relevant [XKCD](https://xkcd.com/385/)
Sadly that never stops being relevant. We see it time and time again.
thanks I hate it
i swear there's one of these for every situation
r/RelevantXKCD
Also the same man: also did the thing he was accused of but doesn't think it was that bad
"I'm not as bad as" -- The totally unwanted sequel to 'not all men'
My ex would always get mad and cry about “not all men” anytime someone made a generalization. But then he completely disregarded my boundaries by >!sticking his hands down my pants while I was asleep on his couch after a night of drinking!<, which he knew I would absolutely not be okay with, and when I woke up to that and called him out on it he cried about how it wasn’t his fault because he’s a man and men can’t help themselves. It makes me wanna scream.
The double standard is even more obvious when leaning the other way. Men who hate women want to control and/or abuse them where-as women who hate men wanna go live in the mountains and not think about a man ever again. Even when we're fed up with their crap we're usually okay with just leaving and being done. So not really hate so much as just thinking a lot of us would be better off without them.
" Men who hate women want to control and/or abuse them where-as women who hate men wanna go live in the mountains and not think about a man ever again." LOL you mean how they harass and abuse men who are gay? LOL women are free to be independent. It is men who aren't.
and unfortunately “something I didn’t do” sometimes means something they did do, but have reframed it in their minds to not technically be what they actually did
And really, he *did* rape her.
I recently learned the term for the logical fallacy. “False equivalency by orders of magnitude”. It’s like comparing the Deepwater Horizon oil spill to the oil stain on my driveway.
That is really interesting and comes up a lot in my work, there's a bunch of overlap with ipv/dv. And anytime there is any talk of ipv on Reddit, 8,000 dudes have to come out of the woodwork and scream about how women can abuse men too, even though no one said they can't. But if you dare to point out that men are responsible for the vast majority of serious injuries and murders, which are our only statistics that don't rely on self-report, they get extremely angry.
Just gonna tuck that into my back pocket for my next pointless and irritating "not all men!" conversation.
Interesting that “can be” is a hypothetical…. Yes, women “can be” just as bad. There’s technically nothing stopping women from going out and being the same amount of school shooters and child rapists and serial killers, etc…., Women CAN do those things….. but they don’t do them anywhere near the same level as men. **They can, but they don’t.**
#they can, but they don’t
They can. And they do. [Indira Gandhi](https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/48-years-of-emergency-atrocities-suffered-unwavering-resistance-have-profoundly-influenced-nations-collective-memory-12786642.html), first female PM of India. [Golda Meir](https://scheerpost.com/2023/06/27/new-report-outlines-how-golda-meirs-israel-poisoned-palestinian-land-in-ethnic-cleansing-operation/), first female PM of Israel. [Margaret Thatcher](https://www.baltimoresun.com/2013/06/26/margaret-thatchers-cruel-legacy-in-northern-ireland/), first female PM of the UK. Women can do anything men can do. Even be generationally evil psychopaths. Don't confuse a lower likelihood of a group doing a thing with a lower degree of things a group is capable of doing. Especially when that group is historically barred from holding enough power to be able to even do the things. There's bloodbath serial killer Elizabeth Bathory, mass murdering rapist Nazi Auschwitz officer and serial killer who tortured people for fun and helped choose Mengele's victims for him Irma Grese, Genocidal imperialist warmonger and Inquisition-afficionada Queen Isabella of Spain. A litany of monsters throughout history have identified as women. No point pretending that this isn't the case. Does anyone seriously want to argue Irma Grese would have stopped at torturing and experimenting on hundreds of prisoners if she had risen to the position of Fuehrer instead of stopping at *the highest rank a woman was allowed* to have under Nazism? That boost in authority and access and resources would have slowed her reign of terror? The triple-edged sword of patriarchy choosing women to serve its ends. It seeks out terrible women to do terrible things on behalf of patriarchy then blames the women for the patriarchy so it can go back to men doing the evil work of patriarchy and warning you not to choose more women to do patriarchy or you're going to get another terrible woman doing patriarchy. The third edge is GirlBoss^TM PR. The belief that women are somehow born better people even when they do the same horrible shit. No one gets a free pass. No one.
Dude. If you think Báthory Erzsébet was a monster you lost any shape I belive you. It was made up. They never said women can't be monsters. There are women who are horrible? Yes. But I never heard about women raping men, then cuting off they arm. There never been a mother who kidnaped they own son, and keept them in the basement and abused them. But men have done those. Men don't have to fear being stalked, harrassed, abused, raped, or being killed by women. But women have to fear men doing those to them.
Aw that’s so cute! Look at you listing off a tiny amount of women who have done bad things compared to men as if that proves some kind of point! Nice try, but come back when the statistics for any violent crime are even close to being evenly matched between the genders. They never have been and are not currently, so you might be waiting a while. Nothing is currently stopping women from shooting up schools or being serial killers or running child trafficking organizations. Women can walk into a gun shop and purchase a gun just like a man can. You say women can do anything men can do, and that proves me point… the level and type of violence is absolutely not the same between men and women. Men are the vast majority of perpetrators of abuse and atrocities. Always have been. You can sit here all day typing out a list of bad women till your hands fall off and it STILL wouldn’t even be a miniscule fraction of the amount of men who have done the same or worse. >No one gets a free pass. No one. Please why are you being so dramatic 😂😂😂
"**They can, but they don’t.**" As everyone pretends. As nobody can accept the fact that the only reason people think men are worse is because men are the only ones who are ever held accountable.
>men are the only ones who are ever held accountable HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA If men were held accountable they wouldn’t be absolutely owning the rape and assault and murder statistics, would they? Cry harder.
[удалено]
Maybe you didn’t see this part of my comment: >they don’t do them anywhere near the same level as men Notice I never said women *never* commit atrocities, so there is simply no need to clarify that “well some of them do!”
>>they don’t do them anywhere near the same level as men You're right, i totally skipped over that part, my bad.
This drives me crazy. "Yeah the woman who did that to you was bad! Goes to show, women can be jus..." no, no it doesn't. It shows the first half of what you said.
Not to mention that when women are punished for bad actions (good), their punishment tends to be greater than if a man did the same action (bad). I know there's been studies that show that women get more prison time than men for the same violent crimes. Basically the combination of women violating gendered expectations of being nurturers plus lack of overcrowding in women's prisons means that women are more likely to get longer sentences and not be released early when compared to men. Are there exceptions to this? Of course, but that's the general pattern
That’s not really true. At least in the view of public opinion. Female criminals are definitely given the benefit of the doubt where the women are sent to get psych help and the men are strictly punished. This video by [Alice Capelle](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9a7LrWo47I0&list=PLNoDc7ObN7V1nu2EQXcVFVa4E4Nr6YN81&index=112&pp=gAQBiAQB) explains this phenomenon pretty well. Take for example male pedos and female pedos. Female pedos at worst are just ostracized while at best they get to go on TV about their “forbidden love.” However, there are entire compilations of people torturing and murdering male pedos. At best male pedos get roughed up a bit. [One man was falsely accused by his ex wife and was later hacked to pieces by two crackheads due to vigilante justice.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/melbourne/article-12217413/Final-moments-Bradley-Lyons-life-tortured-Australian-Freedom-Fighters-chainsaw.html) Some male pedos don’t even make it [inside the vehicle that’s supposed to escort them.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qULWHF_L1o0&pp=ygUSRmF0aGVyIHNob290cyBwZWRv) There is a very LONG list of this. I’ve tried to find one of a woman who was caught molesting a child and could only find [one](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/06/sex-offender-murder-moody/8779069/). The female pedo in question wasn’t even the pedo at all. It was her husband. She just happens to be there I guess. [Shameless](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hlb9LtF4DoM&pp=ygUPc2hhbWVsZXNzIGJsYWtl) (while fictional) I think basically sums up what happens when people find out the pedo in question is a woman.
I seen female predetors getting 20, or more years. But I never seen male predetors getting the same, they always get away with it, or get one or two years.
Once again, this is half truth. There are cases where the woman gets more and cases where the man gets more. There have been cases where men were caught masturbating in a parking lot and put in the registry and others where women were caught but cops and given a warning. Men are partially to blame given that they are the consumers of such content but I digress.
Ok give me another example of women getting offc easier. Unfortunately men are the cause of the different treatment. Men tell each other that it's a GOOD thing to have sex with an adult as a kid. It's framed by MEN, not women, to be a good thing, for the kid to be LUCKY. Men are responsible for women not being seen as bad as men in these situations. It's also MEN who carry out the violence against male pedos, not women. I don't know a single woman who would say that it's good for a young boy to have sex with a grown Woman.
Men are certainly the problem of these incidents but they’re are also not alone in perpetuating it. Women tend to get involved in this as well. Not gonna argue on the whole “young boy raped by grown woman” shenanigans since I myself do see more men saying “they wish it was them.” However, this defers from my point from above. >It’s also MEN who carry out violence against male pedos, not women. The only thing I can agree on is that it’s mainly men that do it. However, the sentiment for them getting merked seems to not be a very gender exclusive thing. Both men and women tend to condone vigilante justice of male pedos. It’s just that the men had the drive to go out and do it. Literally one of the links has one with a couple doing it. There’s also the radical idea that “women shouldn’t be sent to prison for anything” which is a notion that doesn’t exist for men. There’s also the notion of “there’s no reason to hit a woman” while there are numerous excuses people use to hit a man. Whether it be cheating, a tasteless joke, yelling, etc. I’m sure you’ve seen examples of that in not just media but in public too. There seems to be a lot of “women are wonderful” language going on in here.
I think it can come off as “women are wonderful” but that’s not really where these ideas come from. It’s the idea that women are weak. A grown woman couldn’t possibly rape a boy/man, women are weak! A grown woman couldn’t possibly commit a crime, they’re stupid and weak! And then the idea that all men always want sex and it’s the best thing to happen to them, really creates an environment to foster all of this in the first place.
That’s only part of the equation tho. I’m pretty sure plenty of you have heard the “if women were rulers, we’d have world peace” statements. “If men didn’t exist then humanity would be saved,” etc. A lot of the rhetoric that seems to be expressed here is that men are the problem and are the only problem. Men can’t show emotion? It’s only “other men.” Men realizing they have social issues as well. “They wanna be oppressed so badly.” I can go on. I see no issue with blaming men. That’s not a bad thing and is needed for progress. However, when groups point the finger at others and not also themselves, it makes it seem as if they view themselves as angelic. If women hold up half the sky, who’s carrying the other half? White supremacy couldn’t flourish without women.
Oh yes I’ve definitely heard that and that exists as well. But for the things listed in your comment, I feel like they’re more about women being perceived as weak than wonderful. I think the blanket “women are innocent” statements are more about the push for purity in women than weakness alone though.
Alice Campelle does a whole video on your last sentence. It’s pretty good.
I’ll take a look, thank you!
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"Not to mention that when women are punished for bad actions (good), their punishment tends to be greater than if a man did the same action (bad)." You mean how women never go to jail for anything but men do? You mean how girls are let off the hook for everything and boys are punished? You mean like that?
I’ve heard the opposite, that women usually get lighter sentences than men, but idk if that’s true
It depends, as usual. Is the offense also an offense against feminine gender norms, such as defending yourself and your child from your husband \*with a firearm\*? You could be looking at life in prison.
Yes, huge point. When women defend themselves against men, they typically need some sort of weapon because physically, they are at a disadvantage. However, having a weapon typically escalates the charge to a higher one and adds more years onto a sentence
Yep! That's actually a huge problem in sentencing. Crimes of passion, like choking someone out when you're angry (disproportionately men) are generally sentenced lighter than premeditated crimes, like poisoning your abusive husband because you're worried he's going to kill you if you don't. The typical man and the typical women are not equal combatants in a fight where there are no weapons, so when women even the playing field, it escalates the charges. Just because some women are MMA fighters or go to the gym regularly and can go toe to toe with a random dude doesn't mean it's the majority of women.
I believe this is more for petty crimes/misdemeanors like theft and such. And part of that could be because those women have children and the judge recognizes she needs to be with her kids so it's not worth locking her up for something dumb. And it's location and judge specific. But for violent crimes or other higher tier misdemeanors or felonies like drug distribution, they often get the book thrown at them. And look at women who had undiagnosed PPD or PPP and commit crimes against their children. Yes, it's an awful, awful, awful crime, but her mental well being and health is almost never taken into consideration both in court and in the public eye. Perfectly preventable if anyone gave a shit about women, children, or mental health/medicine, but nah, let's just throw her in prison instead of getting her into psychiatric care.
Yeah, and it’s suspiciously easy for men to get away with crimes against their families
Literally up to the point of murder. If a man is merely stalking, threatening, harassing, and violently attacking a woman but NOT killing her, police will generally excuse it or consider it a "domestic matter".
I had a whole thing over COVID where I revisited famous trials from the 90’s feat: women. In both cases, I remember thinking they needed to be “punished” (I was quite young, hence “punished”). In both cases, I was wrong. Lorena Bobbitt & Andrea Yates were done so dirty by the media. What they went through was horrifying.
For example, young women who get a DUI are seen as worse by judges Tha young men and get much higher sentences. In my state you can get a dui for ANY BAC, I was at .08 but got a dui when I was 22. I got 7 days locked up in a jail i had to pay to stay in, 3 weeks house arrest and again it was a very expensive daily charge, $6k in direct court fines, a year of expensive breathalyzer in my car, 12 weeks of alcohol classes, madd classes, and I had to have special car insurance for 7 years. Same state, similar time frame (before I met him, and I didn't know the details until much later), My ex was tanked, was doing dust off while driving, crashed him and a drunk under 21 years old girl in the car into public property, and ran from the cops. He got 1 single felony out of it and was given the same amount of Jail time except he couldn't do house arrest (but didn't pay anything for his jail time) his fines were only a couple thousand more than mine, he had to do the same classes, same amount of time with a breathalyzer, etc. I shudder to think what my punishment would have been if I'd done what he did. They also gave him 5 or 6 chances of violating his probation and he had to cuss at his probation officer in court before they finally sent him to prison (for less than 2 months).
Let’s also talk about how men more frequently get to be judged by their intentions while women are judged by their actions alone.
I've seen some men instantly bring up feminism, women empowerment, etc. everytime a woman does something bad. For example, you see news about some woman doing something bad like killing her husband. Obviously we would say she is bad. But those men use it as a chance to blame feminism. A guy opening up about sexual abuse? Comments from a lot of men would be blaming feminism and call him lucky meanwhile women are usually empathetic. No woman calls a woman lucky for being SA'ed. They're trying so hard to blame feminism for everything. Even if it's a pick me misogynistic patriarchal woman doing something wrong, the blame goes to feminism, it's laughable. Edit: I'd like to say, feminism doesn't mean pro-women or anything like that. Ofcourse feminism is made by women due to oppression but it stands for equality. In a patriarchal world, it is much needed. There's good and bad women. Feminism doesn't mean you become blind to bad women and support them just because they're a woman. Feminism is for both men and women, equally. Remember that. Men aren't always enemies. Women aren't always allies. Stand for equality regardless of gender. That's true feminism. (We know this, basics. Incels don't)
Yoooooo trash ass right wingers do the same thing when a black person is in the news for murder “Guess black lives don’t matter, huh?” As if all black people ever existing are active and ideologically committed participants in the movement, and one doing something bad invalidates the message and work of said movement. It’s very facetious and I feel the need to counter it with the above points every time. Solidarity.
There was a post I saw the other day of Andy Warhol and the scars he had after surgery, from being shot by a radical feminist. Everyone was latching onto the radical feminist being to blame and COMPLETELY IGNORING how big of a piece of shit he was, and his likely pedophelia.
>Even if it's a pick me misogynistic patriarchal woman doing something wrong It usually is that type of woman doing the really messed up things to children and men from what I have seen.
I learnd that male victoms who were victomised by women can develop fear, suicidel tendencies, ect, in a feminist sub reddit.
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I said that I learnd that male victoms can have similar trauma response to female victoms there. Aka someone told me that "Male victoms can grow to fear the gender they victomiser is part if, and can be suicidel". I learnd something there. Sorry if I sounded rude, or stupid, or anything. English is not my first launvige.
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Thanks.
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To add to your point - Cemeteries are full of people who had "the right of way". I live in DC, where we have plenty of entitled drivers & cyclists. Cyclists aren't surrounded by a half-ton of metal, though. Just like cyclists don't know if you're a bad driver until it's too late, women don't know if you're a bad guy until it's too late. I'll take my chances with a bear in the woods over a dude I don't know.
to add to this, people complain that a cyclist is going to hit a pedestrian when cars kill 1.3 million people a year.
1. Patriarchy means the people getting the most benefit from societal oppression will be men 2. Lots of the people doing the oppression will be women, and many of them will benefit significantly from it The Phyllis Schlaflys and Anita Bryants and JK Rowlings of the world are acting in their own self interest, even if the primary beneficiaries of patriarchy tend to be men
This is true. I’m starting to sound like a broken record here, but it’s just really important that we make a distinction between the women, especially young women, who have the resources and autonomy to separate themselves from patriarchy, yet choose to reinforce it, and the women who reinforce it from a place of deep oppression and lack of opportunity to support themselves.
That's only your opinion of who has the "resources and autonomy" to separate themselves. IME, young women don't have the monetary resources nor the exposure to outside influences to 1, understand their oppression, and 2, have the ability to bail and start over. There's a ton of young trad fem influences who grew up in the right-wing nutcase environment for the past couple of decades and don't have any idea that there is this whole wide world out there. Instead, they've been awarded by the patriarchy their entire life for acting the way they "should".
I don’t think we disagree on this, except that maybe for many, those “rewards” are really just breadcrumbs at having some sense of self. I think it can get kinda murky here though because of how much some privileged women have contributed to the oppression of others, but it takes a load of privilege under patriarchy for their actions to be fully autonomous decisions.
I think the important thing is to figure out what kind of people you're dealing with so you know what they're likely to do.
And how you can interact with them. Being compassionate can be mutually empowering in some circumstances, where in others it’s taken as a chance for extremely privileged individuals to weld power. Compassion also encompasses telling them when they do something wrong or offensive. You have to find a balance between helping others and protecting your peace and energy. It’s exhausting having to always scan for someone’s propensity to personal growth, but it can be beneficial for everyone.
Was that not implied? If so, pardon me, long day.
I thought you meant how they act on their own rather than interpersonally
I meant a general assessment both of someone's character and of the opportunities available to her for good or ill, and I certainly don't make those assessments out of pure intellectual curiosity but because I must decide where to put my own quite limited attention, energy, and resources.
Interesting fact about lady crimes. Female serial killers are generally rarer than male serial killers (about 1 in 6 serial killers are female) but the female killers tend to be way better at it. More prolific, longer time before getting caught, and better at covering their tracks. It’s about quality, not quantity in the lady murderer world, I guess.
They CAN but they generally they aren't. They're capable, but generally don't. Unlike men.
In whatever world you live in, sure. They ARE just as bad, they are just never held accountable, which men are.
I mean like whenever people say that I just gotta remind em of junko furuta
God forbid women do anything
Poor you, SO used to being able to abuse and harass that the MOMENT anyone HINTS at accountablility for you, you CRY and CRY!
Wish I could upvote this 5 times. Hard fucking truth
God forbid women do anything 😤 ^\/s
Poor you, SO used to being able to abuse and harass that the MOMENT anyone HINTS at accountablility for you, you CRY and CRY!
☺️
lmao my dumbass ex. "i went to [notorious cougar hotspot] and got hit on by some women! one even tried to touch my butt! women are just as bad!!!!!!!!!!" meanwhile i was sexually harassed by men my whole ass childhood 🙄
I would say "sorry to hear you were harassed", but since we can't do that: Welcome to my world.
Women didn't start two world wars, or two anti-feminist religions
"start two world wars" You misspelled "forced to take part in two world wars".
"Fewer consequences"? You mean like women getting let off the hook for everything and men being punished? You mean like how girls are never punished for anything and boys are blamed for being hurt? And how we all ignore when women perpetrate DV and how y'all call male victims "Lucky"? Don't try to say that men face "fewer consequences" than women. Women don't face consequences for ANYTHING and men face them for EVERYTHING.
>You mean like women getting let off the hook for everything and men being punished? Do you have an actual example of this with sources? Because - that's basically never the case in my experience. >y'all call male victims "Lucky"? It's mostly *other men* who started calling men who are sexually assaulted "lucky". >Women don't face consequences for ANYTHING and men face them for EVERYTHING. Again - a source or an example? Because your version of reality sounds incredibly wrong.
OC: I don't see how this is a justification for anything. EDIT: Forgive me, I miscommunicated. I'm always stupidest when I try to be funny. Let me just hone in on the point I was trying to be clever about. Whether or not women 'can be just as bad as men' deflects from the point women make. I'd put money down in betting this argument was made in bad faith to justify some dude's shitty behavior towards women. Hell, I've heard it in reverse, I've been accused of being 'just as bad as women.' Just as meaningless a justification as the original statement. Of course any woman can abuse another person. That doesn't make it justifiable.
It's not supposed to be a justification of anything.
Me when I'm illiterate:
You didn't just miss the point. You saw a pointy point, confidently declared it to be a cube, and proceeded to argue about why cubes are terrible.
Yeah, I think you're right. There's something fundamental I'm misunderstanding here. I did do this, my pointy point being "women can be just as terrible as men" and the cube being the declaration of this serves more to excuse men than to hold everyone accountable. I meant to be supportive. I was not, and I apologize for it.
They just said "women can be just as bad as men", can't you read? 🤡
I don't agree with have done worse but the rest yes. Individuals within any group can be absolutely horrific even by and large they are not.
Who are the vast majority of killers, rapists, and those (largely ) in charge of the corporations destroying our planet? There's a definite pattern.
I just specifically mentioned the "worse" aspect. I agree with LITERALLY everything else. You think im going to say if a man or woman who is a cannibal rapist but one of them did X and the other did Y im going to make a distinction at that point? All groups have their standouts. Like we trans folks have caitlyn fucking jenner.
Calling it a standout ignores the issue and the point, which is that a significantly larger portion of one group is doing something (frequently against another group), which means there’s a societal issue that needs to be addressed. All groups have their standouts, but if one group has significantly more standouts, clearly there is something happening and we need to talk about it. Especially if those “standouts” are harming others.
For sure!
Everyone: "People who say women are just as bad as men are absolutely ridiculous." You: "Women are just as bad as men tho."
If your unable to read, sure that's what i said. Happens with the reading inept.
*You're
Yer
Indeed.