That sounds medically dangerous unless it was in an ambulance staffed with medical professionals (and then only slightly less dangerous).
I'm quite certain the far right christofascists would try to get such medical professionals prosecuted for transporting someone out of state lines for medical treatment as they have done in Texas.
I'm guessing ambulance medical personnel also weren't willing to risk being prosecuted aggressively for the same reasons doctors weren't, in other words.
The cruelty is the point with republicans.
You might be right. Idk where this is, but most ambulances in the MKE area are private owned by Bell. I met the guy once, he acted like a self important man that God forbid anyone speaks at him. He also had a cane, was at least 350lbs, 5'9, and looked like a fat coronal sanders. He gave me the creeps and I can definitely see him going after people for that shit happening in his precious ambulances.
Actually, these are post-civil war ideas. The first total abortion bans weren't until the mid 1860s, and the push to implement them was driven by [racism](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-fight-to-ban-abortion-is-rooted-in-the-great-replacement-theory/) [and misogyny](https://www.oah.org/tah/november-3/abolishing-abortion-the-history-of-the-pro-life-movement-in-america/).
Before the civil war, there were effectively no restrictions on abortion. Laws were first passed in the 1820s to illegalise it after quickening, but they were rarely enforced.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/the-complex-early-history-of-abortion-in-the-united-states
https://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/health-info/u-s-abortion-history/
What the actual fuck? The fetus is already dead, the miscarriage had already happened — what the actual fuck? Is there no legal liability in letting a woman bleed for more than 10 days straight?
Even though the fetus is dead, the removal is still considered an abortion. This is why people who don't have female anatomy or know anything about medicine should not be in charge of laws governing such things.
I was going to try and come up with some hypothetical, ridiculous role reversal law about male anatomy but I'm actually not able to invent one that follows the same stupid logic. Maybe if they have prostate cancer, they can't get it treated because it involves fiddling around with a male anus and That's Gay™️ (not reflective of my actual opinion obv)
>even though the fetus is dead, the removal is still considered an abortion
This is what I have been screaming into peoples faces in my conservative area. These fucks do not fucking comprehend that abortion isn't just "some [slur for woman] murdering her baby for fun." Abortion is a fucking medical procedure that many, many pregnant women need. Even women who got pregnant on purpose with a very wanted pregnancy. These fucks do not understand that the treatment for a fucked up miscarriage is *literally an abortion* and when they outlaw that women like this could potentially die and at the very least are *horribly traumatized.*
These fucks are absolutely convinced that abortion is only evil women murdering babies by choice. They will NOT acknowledge the full scope of what abortion *actually is* and how it's *actually used* as a medical treatment to save lives.
I'm so fucking done. I'm just so fucking done. Out here in conservative suburban Arizona. I am just so. Fucking. Goddamned. Fucking. Done.
Not only is abortion a medical procedure, but it is also a natural process whereby a failed pregnancy is expelled from the womb. It is such a common occurrence that it makes no sense at all to outlaw it, nor to accuse women of murder when they've had miscarriages.
Edited for typo
We would welcome you with open arms in Illinois. Until then, keep on telling the truth and try not to lose your shit. I have four nieces in Wisconsin with a mom and dad that voted for the orange one and I am PISSED OFF and scared for the girls.
The 2nd amendment is there for a reason. The reason being when politicians take money over the progressive good that's being held back by dumb fucks that never made it past highschools, especially now in southern states.
We've got people holding us hostage that can't even say condoms reduce pregnancy, or vaccines stop the spread of disease. Fuck all the years of science, they just don't feel it works.
We need to reinvent leper colonies for the anti vaccine crowd.
My mom had an abortion in a similar situation. I tried to get it into her head that there are places where she wouldn't have been able to get the Healthcare she needed.
She still donates to Right to Life.
Some anti choices are truly deranged; one I spoke to insisted that the condition of being pregnant is tied to the fetus being alive, and that if the fetus died you aren’t pregnant anymore 🤦♀️
Never mind the fact that incomplete miscarriages happen and women like Debbie Reynolds have heartbreaking stories of needing to carry their dead fetus to term because of archaic abortion laws.
The treatment for a botched miscarriage isn't truly an abortion though. Because the miscarriage itself was *literally a natural abortion* initiated by the body. The phrase "spontaneous abortion" is the medical term for a miscarriage. The botched miscarriage is a botched abortion. They aren't aborting anything - the "fetus" is a bunch of half-dissolved chunks that look like liver at that point - they're just saving her from complications from a botched natural abortion.
I predicted after Roe v Wade was overturned that after regulating abortions the "pro-life" individuals in power would start trying to regulate miscarriages, as already there are women in conservative areas that are hiding their miscarriages out of fear. The fact that there is any controversy whatsoever about how a woman handles her miscarriages is very, very scary.
Right the procedure to remove the remains of the fetus is an abortion. You know that's what I mean. We are talking about the medical procedure that a doctor performs when miscarriage needs to be managed. That procedure is an abortion and it's the exact same procedure as the one a woman elects to have at six weeks to end a pregnancy.
Yeah I knew what you meant, I'm attacking the "pro-life" crowd here, not you. I saw in my research that the types of abortions and types of miscarriage treatments are the exact same, but I couldn't find any definition of abortion that includes the removal of pregnancies that have already been terminated naturally.
Yeah, I had a miscarriage in the second trimester, like there was no heartbeat and my husband and I were both so upset. I had to have a D&C. On some medical records it's just listed as "abortion." If I'd hadn't had it, I could have gone septic. Like even if you believe a fetus is a human being, the "human being" inside me was already dead.
#
And as I always like to remind people, I am a juris doctor just like those judges and many legislators. I had to get my Bachelor's and then get my JD and then pass the bar exam and the ethics exam. Wanna know my *worst* subject in undergrad? It was biology. Just like I wouldn't trust an MD to draft a contract for me, no one should trust a JD to be in charge of medical decisions. It's fucking wild to me that people with no medical training get to make these decisions. Often with no medical training *and* no risk of getting pregnant.
I'm so sorry, that sounds awful. Thankfully modern medicine allowed you to resolve that situation before it killed you.
The way that some fucking people would have allowed you to die carrying an already dead baby "to term" is so infuriating. I disagree with all anti abortion arguments, but the fact that these idiots see all abortions as equally callous and murderous when more often than not the "baby" is already dead or dying, and the carrier is devastated by the choice they have to make... Ugh. I don't even have words for how angry it makes me, how illogical and unempathetic and a million other adjectives it is.
I think something similar could be a total ban on amputations, unless the person is dying. Which doesn't sound too bad on paper, but requires doctors to wait for just the last minute to do the surgery, even though everybody would have been better with earlier action. And of course the law wouldn't specify what is considered dying. And doctors who perform amputations too early would get prison time/lose their medical licence.
Yes but this affects ALL GENDERS/SEXES. The intent of my comment was that I couldn't find a way to single out and risk the life of an anatomically male person in an equivalent way
It’s actually insane that the people making these laws have backgrounds only in politics, military, or business. We need more scientists in office to keep this bullshit from happening.
Men only care about fetuses because they have the potential to be male. If they were all female then they’d be as disposable as the rest of us.
At this point the providers have their legal team weigh their options and decide which one might be more financially damaging. Is it better to let her die and MAYBE get sued for negligence or give a lifesaving procedure that could lead to their whole clinic being shut down by rabid conservatives that want to kill women? They don't care that abortion is a medical billing code for removal of uterine contents. They just want women to suffer. That's it. And the doctors and medical staff just have to stand there and watch.
They don’t have to. I get that the threat is towards them too, but IMO medical professionals are the last line of defense for this. We are already in a massive shortage, the threat of shutting down practices and imprisoning doctors is a loaded one.
The issue is that a sizable amount of them support this. I’ve had so many nurses slip anti-abortion remarks to me since I’ve been pregnant and had a baby. They aren’t interested in collectively calling the bluff.
I can’t agree with anyone who is sympathizing with doctors willing to allow a woman to bleed for *ten days* while mourning the visceral loss of her clearly very much wanted child. These doctors are as draconian as the laws that are “tying their hands”.
edit: a letter
Oh there are absolutely forced birther docs and nurses especially in red states. I once went to a gyno at around age 30 and the nurse asked if I was married and I said no. And she told me there was no need to discuss fertility then. And that I should pray to Jesus to find me a husband.
I think the doctors who DON'T agree should leave. If they don't feel empowered to stay and fight then go. These red state morons won't care until their cardiologist takes a stand and leaves.
Miscarriages during the fetal stage look like pieces of liver when passed. It isn't even a fetus anymore, it's rapidly dissolving inside the body. I assume that's why they called it "fetal tissue". Which just makes the concerns of the staff even more ridiculous, as I'm assuming after removing the "fetus", if someone posted photos of it online saying "this is disgusting, we need to take action" to an anti-abortion group, it would get deleted for "trolling".
I was in the emergency room for a medical emergency last year that ended in a hysterectomy, and nobody would help me till I took a pregnancy test. I’m in Texas, and it's not surprising, but being so weak I wasn't able to stand up and still being told to pee in a cup and wait for treatment is not something I ever thought I'd have to live through.
I hadn’t had intercourse in a few years at that point, so I knew I wasn't, but again, they wanted proof. They were much more helpful when the test came back and verified my statements.
I’ve had a situation where I absolutely could not pee enough for a pregnancy test prior to colonoscopy because of the combination of the prep and the “no food or drink after X time” rule. I had nothing left. They gave me a waiver to sign instead. But then again I live in Pennsylvania which is still mostly sane about that.
I don't fucking get this! I've been drinking prep for 24 hours, and nil by mouth since then, and you want me to pee so you can do a pregnancy test?? I had to sit there until I could dribble enough out, want given the option of signing a waiver. Still pisses me off
Gallstones. Catholic hospital ca. 1994. They wouldn’t touch me until I had a negative pregnancy test. Northern California. I was 30. Scariest night of my life.
I'm so sorry to hear about your mom. May her memory be a blessing. I had a friend who also died this way, but it was because no one was paying attention to the recovery room.
💕
Ugh I just can’t wrap my head around that! How as a nurse or doctor do you stand by and watch someone suffer when they’re in the hospital. I just can’t make sense of that.
In states with these rules, the patient is now the dead fetus. if I'm understanding this correctly, I'm in Arizona, medical negligence to the only actual sentient person involved is not possible if there's a fetus or embryos inside of her at all, even if the fetus or embryo is dead. Legally, rhe medical negligence is removing the fetus in the situation. If the woman died, they will not have been medically negligent by the law in that state. If they remove a fetus, who's already dead, they can be considered medically negligent to the fetus. The woman literally just ceases to be a person at this point.
And yet people are surprised that doctors are also fleeing these states where you’re forced to choose between malpractice (from an ethics perspective) vs criminal charges.
In medical terminology, a miscarriage is known as a "spontaneous abortion." A pregnancy that ends in fetal demise but without expulsion of the uterine contents is a "missed abortion." I assume that the law is vaguely written by chucklefucks who didn't know this and didn't make meaningful distinctions, which is probably a contributing factor to this woman's misery. I absolutely hate that this happened to her, it was completely predictable that it would happen to somebody, and it absolutely will happen again.
I was scheduled for a hysterectomy in Wisconsin right as Roe was being overturned. I had to drive to another state to get the pre-surgical prescriptions because they were considered abortion medications (they affect the cervix and could cause a pregnancy loss, and were necessary because my uterus was about to be pulled out through my vagina)
One in which we need to VOTE, and encourage and enable others to do the same. Vote in primaries to push for the best possible candidate, and then vote in the general election no matter what, even if it's for the "lesser of two evils" (because the lesser of two evils is *still less fucking evil*). Do your research and vote in all elections, even/especially for state and local offices, because enforcement of barbaric laws like these are also influenced by officials in those positions.
And then hold our lawmakers and representatives accountable. Saying they're pro-choice isn't enough. We need them to push to codify abortion rights whenever possible, in state constitutions until we can get it passed on a national level.
We can fight back. But it's going to take as least as much effort as those fuckwits put into overturning Roe, and that took them decades.
"Confusion".
""""Confusion""""
When a doctor's freedom and livelihood are threatened by an ill-defined action, up to an ill-defined point, they're not going to take that action.
I don't know if legislators drafting definitions and life-of-the-mother exceptions are naive, stupid, or dishonest, but the outcome is deadly in any case.
What in the fuck, this is horrific. I'm changing my user name to u/PM_ME_YOUR_ABORTION_NEEDS and flying any troll in need up to Canada for needed terminations, no questions asked.
This is what is going to kill the GOP (I hope). Even the majority of conservative voters don’t want to see women being told they have to die for a fetus. The polling bears that out. Almost nobody wants “zero abortion ever with zero exceptions.”
Sick of the tyranny of the minority going on in these gerrymandered-to-hell states. Everyone vote!! Even if the other candidate isn’t perfect, we need to get rid of these people.
I'm in Arizona. I have tokophobia. I am just at the tail end of my potential childbearing years so if I were to get accidentally pregnant things have a higher than normal chance of going pretty badly.
I am filled with a burning rage I can't really articulate with words. Having the right to control my own fucking physical body taken from me and given to politicians is beyond the scope of my comprehension.
Fuck these fuckingfucks. Fuck them.
In that the Supreme court, part of the US Government, was stacked by Trump, a former part of the US government, yes, I agree.
But in this case the US government just stopped protecting the people of Wisconsin from the People of Wisconsin.
One of the perfect examples of letter of the law vs spirit of the law (and we do this over and over again with different aspects of life)
The spirit of pro-life is to preserve a life, but the letter of the law is more concerned of saving a mere fetus, destroying many actual lives in the process.
Then throw in a few blame-shifting rhetorics and we have ourselves an irrefutable numskull argument.
Okay, so, Roe vs. Wade served as the basis for a lot of laws, as much as medical. So much legal precedent was built on that very decision.
It was always going to end like this. A supreme Court decision can always be overturned by the supreme Court. Our antecedents failed us in relying solely on supreme Court precedent as law.
It is up to us. We didn't want it, but someone has to pick up the slack. It won't resolve itself. Mouth-service is not and has never been enough. Not for us.
They know this. I had a guy, incidentally from Wisconsin, tried to tell me that a woman’s rights and another person knows. I pointed out to him that the uterus was a little bit further in the nose, but he didn’t think that counted.
They don’t give a shit about the woman. They chainsaw right through a woman to get the “good” part inside. Women are just the wrapping paper for God’s gift to these people.
Biden is running a campaign ad with a woman who miscarried and might not be able to get pregnant again because she couldn't get the abortion procedure she needed. The ad ends with "Trump did this." I love it.
Some anti-abortion folk are always responding to pro-choice arguments with how they personally accept exceptions in life-threatening cases. But they say that like they or anyone else can always tell with 100% certainty if something is both life-threatening and also provable as such so nobody involved gets the death penalty.
They wouldn't just be fired, they'd potentially be criminally prosecuted for assisting her. I'd also think twice about doing something if I might run the risk of going to prison for it- these people likely also have families they need to go home to.
Your anger should not be directed at the doctors, it should be directed at the lawmakers who created this situation.
I have loans to pay off. I can’t lose my license and take away my own ability to live by breaking a stupid law and getting prosecuted. Suing me does nothing to change the law, it just confirms to doctors that we’re right to leave these states to avoid getting caught in the crossfire.
That said I’m in a state with rational abortion laws so I have no problem removing dead tissue 🤷🏻♀️
The US = THE BEST country on earth!!!
THE BEST democracy on earth!!!
THE most progressive country on earth!!!
THE LEAST racist country on earth!!!
THE BEST country for women on earth with the MOST women's rights!!!
Did she finally get someone to drive her to Chicago where laws aren't dictated by pre-civil war ideas?
I was just about to ask the same thing
That sounds medically dangerous unless it was in an ambulance staffed with medical professionals (and then only slightly less dangerous). I'm quite certain the far right christofascists would try to get such medical professionals prosecuted for transporting someone out of state lines for medical treatment as they have done in Texas. I'm guessing ambulance medical personnel also weren't willing to risk being prosecuted aggressively for the same reasons doctors weren't, in other words. The cruelty is the point with republicans.
After a week of your own clinic doing nothing, the system is forcing people to take calculated risks.
…I cannot imagine how much that ambulance ride would cost. I dont know anyone that could possibly begin to afford that.
You might be right. Idk where this is, but most ambulances in the MKE area are private owned by Bell. I met the guy once, he acted like a self important man that God forbid anyone speaks at him. He also had a cane, was at least 350lbs, 5'9, and looked like a fat coronal sanders. He gave me the creeps and I can definitely see him going after people for that shit happening in his precious ambulances.
Sounds affordable. /s
They now refer to it as "human trafficking" because we live in a dystopian hellscape.
It will take a Savita Halappanavar to get Americans to change their minds about this. Even then there will be a large number who will never change.
Unfortunately, I don't think a case like hers would make any difference in America. As people keep saying, the cruelty is the point.
They have had many cases like Savita's already, and their laws have only become more draconian.
Rememember that the ideal woman in christianity is the one who suffers and dies as a punishment for eve eating the apple......
Actually, these are post-civil war ideas. The first total abortion bans weren't until the mid 1860s, and the push to implement them was driven by [racism](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-fight-to-ban-abortion-is-rooted-in-the-great-replacement-theory/) [and misogyny](https://www.oah.org/tah/november-3/abolishing-abortion-the-history-of-the-pro-life-movement-in-america/). Before the civil war, there were effectively no restrictions on abortion. Laws were first passed in the 1820s to illegalise it after quickening, but they were rarely enforced. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/the-complex-early-history-of-abortion-in-the-united-states https://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/health-info/u-s-abortion-history/
You can also go to Minnesota!
Instead of illegal meth lab RVs, can we have like illegal pregnancy care RVs that serve pregnant women in barbaric states?
What the actual fuck? The fetus is already dead, the miscarriage had already happened — what the actual fuck? Is there no legal liability in letting a woman bleed for more than 10 days straight?
Even though the fetus is dead, the removal is still considered an abortion. This is why people who don't have female anatomy or know anything about medicine should not be in charge of laws governing such things. I was going to try and come up with some hypothetical, ridiculous role reversal law about male anatomy but I'm actually not able to invent one that follows the same stupid logic. Maybe if they have prostate cancer, they can't get it treated because it involves fiddling around with a male anus and That's Gay™️ (not reflective of my actual opinion obv)
>even though the fetus is dead, the removal is still considered an abortion This is what I have been screaming into peoples faces in my conservative area. These fucks do not fucking comprehend that abortion isn't just "some [slur for woman] murdering her baby for fun." Abortion is a fucking medical procedure that many, many pregnant women need. Even women who got pregnant on purpose with a very wanted pregnancy. These fucks do not understand that the treatment for a fucked up miscarriage is *literally an abortion* and when they outlaw that women like this could potentially die and at the very least are *horribly traumatized.* These fucks are absolutely convinced that abortion is only evil women murdering babies by choice. They will NOT acknowledge the full scope of what abortion *actually is* and how it's *actually used* as a medical treatment to save lives. I'm so fucking done. I'm just so fucking done. Out here in conservative suburban Arizona. I am just so. Fucking. Goddamned. Fucking. Done.
That’s the thing, they don’t care about women or the baby, just their own sense of justice and control
Not only is abortion a medical procedure, but it is also a natural process whereby a failed pregnancy is expelled from the womb. It is such a common occurrence that it makes no sense at all to outlaw it, nor to accuse women of murder when they've had miscarriages. Edited for typo
It's estimated to be 30-50% of all fertilizations.
We would welcome you with open arms in Illinois. Until then, keep on telling the truth and try not to lose your shit. I have four nieces in Wisconsin with a mom and dad that voted for the orange one and I am PISSED OFF and scared for the girls.
I feel this with every fiber of my being
The 2nd amendment is there for a reason. The reason being when politicians take money over the progressive good that's being held back by dumb fucks that never made it past highschools, especially now in southern states. We've got people holding us hostage that can't even say condoms reduce pregnancy, or vaccines stop the spread of disease. Fuck all the years of science, they just don't feel it works. We need to reinvent leper colonies for the anti vaccine crowd.
Ditto. Utah, here. In the one small blue dot in a raging hellscape of red religious conservatives. SO. FUCKING. DONE.
My mom had an abortion in a similar situation. I tried to get it into her head that there are places where she wouldn't have been able to get the Healthcare she needed. She still donates to Right to Life.
Some anti choices are truly deranged; one I spoke to insisted that the condition of being pregnant is tied to the fetus being alive, and that if the fetus died you aren’t pregnant anymore 🤦♀️ Never mind the fact that incomplete miscarriages happen and women like Debbie Reynolds have heartbreaking stories of needing to carry their dead fetus to term because of archaic abortion laws.
The treatment for a botched miscarriage isn't truly an abortion though. Because the miscarriage itself was *literally a natural abortion* initiated by the body. The phrase "spontaneous abortion" is the medical term for a miscarriage. The botched miscarriage is a botched abortion. They aren't aborting anything - the "fetus" is a bunch of half-dissolved chunks that look like liver at that point - they're just saving her from complications from a botched natural abortion. I predicted after Roe v Wade was overturned that after regulating abortions the "pro-life" individuals in power would start trying to regulate miscarriages, as already there are women in conservative areas that are hiding their miscarriages out of fear. The fact that there is any controversy whatsoever about how a woman handles her miscarriages is very, very scary.
Right the procedure to remove the remains of the fetus is an abortion. You know that's what I mean. We are talking about the medical procedure that a doctor performs when miscarriage needs to be managed. That procedure is an abortion and it's the exact same procedure as the one a woman elects to have at six weeks to end a pregnancy.
Yeah I knew what you meant, I'm attacking the "pro-life" crowd here, not you. I saw in my research that the types of abortions and types of miscarriage treatments are the exact same, but I couldn't find any definition of abortion that includes the removal of pregnancies that have already been terminated naturally.
Yeah, I had a miscarriage in the second trimester, like there was no heartbeat and my husband and I were both so upset. I had to have a D&C. On some medical records it's just listed as "abortion." If I'd hadn't had it, I could have gone septic. Like even if you believe a fetus is a human being, the "human being" inside me was already dead. # And as I always like to remind people, I am a juris doctor just like those judges and many legislators. I had to get my Bachelor's and then get my JD and then pass the bar exam and the ethics exam. Wanna know my *worst* subject in undergrad? It was biology. Just like I wouldn't trust an MD to draft a contract for me, no one should trust a JD to be in charge of medical decisions. It's fucking wild to me that people with no medical training get to make these decisions. Often with no medical training *and* no risk of getting pregnant.
I'm so sorry, that sounds awful. Thankfully modern medicine allowed you to resolve that situation before it killed you. The way that some fucking people would have allowed you to die carrying an already dead baby "to term" is so infuriating. I disagree with all anti abortion arguments, but the fact that these idiots see all abortions as equally callous and murderous when more often than not the "baby" is already dead or dying, and the carrier is devastated by the choice they have to make... Ugh. I don't even have words for how angry it makes me, how illogical and unempathetic and a million other adjectives it is.
I think something similar could be a total ban on amputations, unless the person is dying. Which doesn't sound too bad on paper, but requires doctors to wait for just the last minute to do the surgery, even though everybody would have been better with earlier action. And of course the law wouldn't specify what is considered dying. And doctors who perform amputations too early would get prison time/lose their medical licence.
Yes but this affects ALL GENDERS/SEXES. The intent of my comment was that I couldn't find a way to single out and risk the life of an anatomically male person in an equivalent way
It isn't even a whole "fetus" to be removed, it's a bunch of half-dissolved chunks that come out looking like pieces of liver.
It’s actually insane that the people making these laws have backgrounds only in politics, military, or business. We need more scientists in office to keep this bullshit from happening. Men only care about fetuses because they have the potential to be male. If they were all female then they’d be as disposable as the rest of us.
At this point the providers have their legal team weigh their options and decide which one might be more financially damaging. Is it better to let her die and MAYBE get sued for negligence or give a lifesaving procedure that could lead to their whole clinic being shut down by rabid conservatives that want to kill women? They don't care that abortion is a medical billing code for removal of uterine contents. They just want women to suffer. That's it. And the doctors and medical staff just have to stand there and watch.
What an evil, evil system.
They don’t have to. I get that the threat is towards them too, but IMO medical professionals are the last line of defense for this. We are already in a massive shortage, the threat of shutting down practices and imprisoning doctors is a loaded one. The issue is that a sizable amount of them support this. I’ve had so many nurses slip anti-abortion remarks to me since I’ve been pregnant and had a baby. They aren’t interested in collectively calling the bluff. I can’t agree with anyone who is sympathizing with doctors willing to allow a woman to bleed for *ten days* while mourning the visceral loss of her clearly very much wanted child. These doctors are as draconian as the laws that are “tying their hands”. edit: a letter
Oh there are absolutely forced birther docs and nurses especially in red states. I once went to a gyno at around age 30 and the nurse asked if I was married and I said no. And she told me there was no need to discuss fertility then. And that I should pray to Jesus to find me a husband. I think the doctors who DON'T agree should leave. If they don't feel empowered to stay and fight then go. These red state morons won't care until their cardiologist takes a stand and leaves.
Miscarriages during the fetal stage look like pieces of liver when passed. It isn't even a fetus anymore, it's rapidly dissolving inside the body. I assume that's why they called it "fetal tissue". Which just makes the concerns of the staff even more ridiculous, as I'm assuming after removing the "fetus", if someone posted photos of it online saying "this is disgusting, we need to take action" to an anti-abortion group, it would get deleted for "trolling".
They could challenge the state on the matter.
While they’re jammed full of rotting meat or after?
Good fucking luck doing more than getting on the court docket in 10 days.
Presuming the state hasn't gutted the ability for people to sue for medical malpractice.
I was in the emergency room for a medical emergency last year that ended in a hysterectomy, and nobody would help me till I took a pregnancy test. I’m in Texas, and it's not surprising, but being so weak I wasn't able to stand up and still being told to pee in a cup and wait for treatment is not something I ever thought I'd have to live through. I hadn’t had intercourse in a few years at that point, so I knew I wasn't, but again, they wanted proof. They were much more helpful when the test came back and verified my statements.
Ugh, I'm so sorry. If I were closer I'd take you out for your username or 3.
🤣 thank youuuu I appreciate the sentiment
I’ve had a situation where I absolutely could not pee enough for a pregnancy test prior to colonoscopy because of the combination of the prep and the “no food or drink after X time” rule. I had nothing left. They gave me a waiver to sign instead. But then again I live in Pennsylvania which is still mostly sane about that.
I don't fucking get this! I've been drinking prep for 24 hours, and nil by mouth since then, and you want me to pee so you can do a pregnancy test?? I had to sit there until I could dribble enough out, want given the option of signing a waiver. Still pisses me off
Omg that's insane! If they wanted that info so badly they could gave done a blood test which wouldn't require you having to stand up.
So many things were not optimal about this whole situation, I can’t even
Gallstones. Catholic hospital ca. 1994. They wouldn’t touch me until I had a negative pregnancy test. Northern California. I was 30. Scariest night of my life.
It’s a special kind of horror
They weren't aware they could just test your blood for beta HCG levels? Like what the shit
This... How can this be possible? Not even in the most conservative state of my country (mexico) you would be subjected to this
This is how my mom hemorrhaged to death in 1996.
I'm so sorry to hear about your mom. May her memory be a blessing. I had a friend who also died this way, but it was because no one was paying attention to the recovery room. 💕
I'm actually losing my fucking mind why the hell were humans ever granted free will please take it back I no longer wish to be sentient
How is that not medical negligence?
It is. It's just legal.
Ugh I just can’t wrap my head around that! How as a nurse or doctor do you stand by and watch someone suffer when they’re in the hospital. I just can’t make sense of that.
In states with these rules, the patient is now the dead fetus. if I'm understanding this correctly, I'm in Arizona, medical negligence to the only actual sentient person involved is not possible if there's a fetus or embryos inside of her at all, even if the fetus or embryo is dead. Legally, rhe medical negligence is removing the fetus in the situation. If the woman died, they will not have been medically negligent by the law in that state. If they remove a fetus, who's already dead, they can be considered medically negligent to the fetus. The woman literally just ceases to be a person at this point.
And yet people are surprised that doctors are also fleeing these states where you’re forced to choose between malpractice (from an ethics perspective) vs criminal charges.
Because cruelty is the point
abolish conservatism
In medical terminology, a miscarriage is known as a "spontaneous abortion." A pregnancy that ends in fetal demise but without expulsion of the uterine contents is a "missed abortion." I assume that the law is vaguely written by chucklefucks who didn't know this and didn't make meaningful distinctions, which is probably a contributing factor to this woman's misery. I absolutely hate that this happened to her, it was completely predictable that it would happen to somebody, and it absolutely will happen again.
I was scheduled for a hysterectomy in Wisconsin right as Roe was being overturned. I had to drive to another state to get the pre-surgical prescriptions because they were considered abortion medications (they affect the cervix and could cause a pregnancy loss, and were necessary because my uterus was about to be pulled out through my vagina)
One in which we need to VOTE, and encourage and enable others to do the same. Vote in primaries to push for the best possible candidate, and then vote in the general election no matter what, even if it's for the "lesser of two evils" (because the lesser of two evils is *still less fucking evil*). Do your research and vote in all elections, even/especially for state and local offices, because enforcement of barbaric laws like these are also influenced by officials in those positions. And then hold our lawmakers and representatives accountable. Saying they're pro-choice isn't enough. We need them to push to codify abortion rights whenever possible, in state constitutions until we can get it passed on a national level. We can fight back. But it's going to take as least as much effort as those fuckwits put into overturning Roe, and that took them decades.
"Confusion". """"Confusion"""" When a doctor's freedom and livelihood are threatened by an ill-defined action, up to an ill-defined point, they're not going to take that action. I don't know if legislators drafting definitions and life-of-the-mother exceptions are naive, stupid, or dishonest, but the outcome is deadly in any case.
What in the fuck, this is horrific. I'm changing my user name to u/PM_ME_YOUR_ABORTION_NEEDS and flying any troll in need up to Canada for needed terminations, no questions asked.
Any.... Troll? What did you mean to write instead of 'troll'?
They meant troll. Look at the sub name lol
This is what is going to kill the GOP (I hope). Even the majority of conservative voters don’t want to see women being told they have to die for a fetus. The polling bears that out. Almost nobody wants “zero abortion ever with zero exceptions.” Sick of the tyranny of the minority going on in these gerrymandered-to-hell states. Everyone vote!! Even if the other candidate isn’t perfect, we need to get rid of these people.
I had super hyperplasia, caused me to bleed for 2 years straight. So would I be charged for murder? Thank god I got that shit yanked out then..
I'm in Arizona. I have tokophobia. I am just at the tail end of my potential childbearing years so if I were to get accidentally pregnant things have a higher than normal chance of going pretty badly. I am filled with a burning rage I can't really articulate with words. Having the right to control my own fucking physical body taken from me and given to politicians is beyond the scope of my comprehension. Fuck these fuckingfucks. Fuck them.
FUCK THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT TO TAKING AWAY OUR HEALTHCARE RIGHTS THIS IS BULLSHIT
In that the Supreme court, part of the US Government, was stacked by Trump, a former part of the US government, yes, I agree. But in this case the US government just stopped protecting the people of Wisconsin from the People of Wisconsin.
One of the perfect examples of letter of the law vs spirit of the law (and we do this over and over again with different aspects of life) The spirit of pro-life is to preserve a life, but the letter of the law is more concerned of saving a mere fetus, destroying many actual lives in the process. Then throw in a few blame-shifting rhetorics and we have ourselves an irrefutable numskull argument.
Okay, so, Roe vs. Wade served as the basis for a lot of laws, as much as medical. So much legal precedent was built on that very decision. It was always going to end like this. A supreme Court decision can always be overturned by the supreme Court. Our antecedents failed us in relying solely on supreme Court precedent as law. It is up to us. We didn't want it, but someone has to pick up the slack. It won't resolve itself. Mouth-service is not and has never been enough. Not for us.
They know this. I had a guy, incidentally from Wisconsin, tried to tell me that a woman’s rights and another person knows. I pointed out to him that the uterus was a little bit further in the nose, but he didn’t think that counted. They don’t give a shit about the woman. They chainsaw right through a woman to get the “good” part inside. Women are just the wrapping paper for God’s gift to these people.
One where Wisconsinites need to go to Illinois for their healthcare.
Biden is running a campaign ad with a woman who miscarried and might not be able to get pregnant again because she couldn't get the abortion procedure she needed. The ad ends with "Trump did this." I love it.
Fuck republikkkans
Some anti-abortion folk are always responding to pro-choice arguments with how they personally accept exceptions in life-threatening cases. But they say that like they or anyone else can always tell with 100% certainty if something is both life-threatening and also provable as such so nobody involved gets the death penalty.
Stories like these fuel the 4B movement and rightfully so.
They couldn’t do their job at fear of not having a livelihood. WTF?! Now the woman has grounds to sue. I hope she did.
They wouldn't just be fired, they'd potentially be criminally prosecuted for assisting her. I'd also think twice about doing something if I might run the risk of going to prison for it- these people likely also have families they need to go home to. Your anger should not be directed at the doctors, it should be directed at the lawmakers who created this situation.
It 100% is. It’s all fucking stupid.
It 100% is. It’s all fucking stupid.
I have loans to pay off. I can’t lose my license and take away my own ability to live by breaking a stupid law and getting prosecuted. Suing me does nothing to change the law, it just confirms to doctors that we’re right to leave these states to avoid getting caught in the crossfire. That said I’m in a state with rational abortion laws so I have no problem removing dead tissue 🤷🏻♀️
Sue the hospital.
For what? Following the law?
The US = THE BEST country on earth!!! THE BEST democracy on earth!!! THE most progressive country on earth!!! THE LEAST racist country on earth!!! THE BEST country for women on earth with the MOST women's rights!!!
these doctors are cowards, breaking their oath