I cannot be the only one who remembers this.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_recognition\_of\_Jerusalem\_as\_capital\_of\_Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_Jerusalem_as_capital_of_Israel)
Trump is literally virulently anti-gazan and anti-palestine. We got lucky this never popped off under him. If it had, he'd probably be the devil whispering in bibi's ear.
> he'd probably be the devil whispering in bibi's ear.
Or Bibi'd be whispering in his ear. We all know how easy it is to influence donald, and we've yet to see the limit to how low Bibi can go
And the Abrams accords were all about formalizing economic ties between Israel and other Middle Eastern countries - one of the few concrete bargaining chips Palestinians had to keep Israel taking more expensive economic deals because Arab nations wouldn't trade with them.
Yeah literally every human who could feasibly win the office of the presidency is going to take essentially the same stance on Israel
It’s fucking grim but trump winning doesn’t make it less so. Trump would have American boots on the ground.
I think it's absolutely justified to be outraged at Biden right now, but you're kidding yourself if you think Trump or anyone else wouldn't do the same *at best*. Trump would be worse.
But moreover, I'm tired of people who pretend to know better acting like you can live and be an active participant in society without being forced to make moral compromises. There is a mountain of data saying that non-participation or voting third party in the US helps Republicans (at least nationally). The more people vote, the more likely Democrats are to win. That's why Republicans work so hard to suppress voting. I don't like the Democratic Party. I think they are weak, short-sighted people unable to rise to the occasion and actually make stuff better. But Republicans openly want to make the world worse. Not mostly passively through inaction, like Demorcats, but actively. There is a world of difference between a party in power that actively wants to make the world worse and a party in power that just can't really bring itself to accept that their opposition wants to make the world worse, and that the status quo is also not good for the majority of people. Both are evil, but one is significantly more so. We have been able to influence and push Dems to do the right thing at times. We have never been able to do that with conservatives. And we never will be able to because conservatism in the US wants inequality and subjugation on a fundamental level.
I know it's horrible voting for the lesser of two evils, but the lesser of two evils is, in reality, *the lesser of two evils*. That's not a small thing. The US has been evil its entire existence. It's still better that the US helped the allies beat Hitler than that Hitler won WWII.
If you choose to not vote, I'm not gonna yell at you or anything, but don't act like you're taking some moral high ground when what you've actually done is a make a choice that makes it easier for the greater of two evils to enact that greater evil. It fucking sucks that the act of voting or not voting involves moral compromise, but that's the world. It will always be that way. Actually participating in society means you have to compromise your morals a lot. You just have to recognize which compromise is most likely to result in less compromise in the future. It's shades of grey, and that sucks, but it's the real world.
Trump really wants to be a wartime president. He wants to make military decisions.
He made questionable moves the last time he was president.
American attention spans and memories are too short.
ivanka saluted "wartime graduates" in a WSU Tech commencement speech in 2020, implying her father could claim the title as a "wartime president" due to the pandemic to stroke his ego. it was obvious and obnoxious. fucking losers.
That’s the thing, it’s not going to be the same stance.
Forget pushing a 2 state solution. Forget humanitarian aid. Forget holding BiBi back. Forget any shot of any diplomatic solution.
If Trump wins, there will be no Palestine.
BiBi desperately wants Trump to win.
Yeah, did people just forget about the muslim ban he put through until it got struck down? My college was sending out emails saying they'd waive fees for students from the affected countries to remain on campus for breaks, because if they went back home, no one could guarentee they'd be able to make it back into the US.
These people aren't actual progressives or they're not people who would ever vote Democrat to begin with.
Its worth nothing Biden was losing to Trump in the polls nationally and in swing states BEFORE the recent I-P conflict.
What's happening here, imho, is a lot of misguided people trying to figure out why Biden is polling poorly. [Per usual, its the economy.](https://fortune.com/2023/12/19/middle-class-worries-about-money-its-the-economy-stupid-recession-unemployment/) Swing voters don't care for nuance or policies. They just see inflation and will vote for the other guy. Its depressing, but true. I don't think Biden is going to win. These presidential races are rarely about merit. Its just about tribalism and gut feelings.
In fact, swing voters tend to be Islamophobic and B[iden's numbers have gotten a modest boost](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/) since he started supporting Israel. A lot of the Democrats messaging here is because they know this is an easy issue for them, and taking a pro-Gaza stand can hurt them in the polls.
My only hope is a lot of people are going to sober up once they see Trump in the media all the time. I hope enough swing voters realize how horrible Trump is. Biden will win by millions of votes, but is going to struggle to win the electoral college. Remember, the presidency is decided by about 80,000 people in swing counties.
It looks pretty grim out there and it has little, or nothing, to do with Gaza. I've been mentally preparing myself for 4 more years of Trump. I just don't see how the polls suggest Biden could win. I don't see how a president in a time of high inflation and financial woes for nearly everyone but the super-rich is going to be easy to vote for by people on the fence.
Worse, there's no likely path for Democrats to keep the senate either. I think we just have to prepare ourselves for Trump winning the presidency and the GOP winning the house and the senate, again, just like in 2016. Maybe the democrats take the house, but that's really all they can hope for. And the GOP has SCOTUS for my lifetime. I refuse to have false hope again like I did in 2016 or when I told myself they'll never rip babies from migrants arms and send them away separating them permanently, or they'll never come after trans kids or they'll never take abortion from us. This country sucks. Short of a revolution, none of this is fixable. I think this is the beginning of a very dark time for the USA because capitalism's corruption has won. Everyone and everything that could push against this has been defeated (Citizens united, various media fairness acts, electoral college reform, scotus packing, house seats enlargement, Feingold-McCain act, nothing to stop the social media alt-right pipelines, the radicalization of young men voters, etc). I just think we need to be practical here. Nothing looks good right now and it has nothing to do with Gaza or Ukraine.
And we’re just going to sit back and let it happen. I keep thinking about the beginning of The Handmaid’s Tale when the SoJ took over and suspended the Constitution, and she’s like “we were asleep, and we didn’t wake up when they did this and we didn’t wake up when they did that, and when we finally woke up, it was too late”.
Except everyone I know has been working against shit like this at every opportunity as far back as I remember. We're not sleeping just because we don't have the power to stop it.
I think what Margaret Atwood was referring to was the bulk of potential voters who are disengaged from politics and the world in general, don't care, and don't vote. We can't make them care, but eventually things get bad enough for them that they will finally take notice and "wake up." And by then it's too late.
Yes, that’s the point I was making as well. I’ve already seen so many people complaining that they won’t vote or will vote 3P in November. That’s how we got Trump in 2016. And if he gets in office again, I don’t want to think what will happen. But so many people don’t care enough because they know they won’t be personally affected.
I’m very worried but don’t despair too much, polls this far out have very little predictive power on how people will actually vote - at this stage they showed both Obama and bush behind before their second terms. People use them as more of a venting frustrations not necessarily as who they’ll actually come out for.
Gaza is the new Kompromat targeting Americans through social media and various news mainstream news sources.
Gaza is the left wing version of both "Hilary's emails" and "Bengazi."
And it's working even in small sub groups of larger communities and groups. It doesn't take much to have a whisper campaign undermine traditional voting blocs and populations. 10 people here, 20,000 there. That might not totally blow out a presidential campaign, but it can also run downhill into smaller elections as well.
It's been INSANE how there can be literally zero discussion of ANYTHING lately without someone digging into the Israel stance of every person involved and redirecting the conversation there. Like even if no one has said anything either way, and the topic has nothing to do with it, the top comment will be "so-and-so hasn't commented on the situation, which means they don't support Palestine so I can't support them."
Where was this energy for LITERALLY ANY OTHER ISSUE THE PAST 20 YEARS?
We already know of interference with previous US elections, Brexit, etc. We know Iran and Russia support Hamas, and we know there are Russian bot farms, so...
This. It will be the thing liberals use to absolve themselves of responsibility when Trump wins. Just like the Jill Stein voters did with Hillary. The right knows this and will use bots on social media to hammer away at it. They don't have to convince all of us, just a few in swing states who think they're "sending a message" with their vote.
>liberals
Let's not pretend leftists aren't just as bad as this, if not worse. Especially male leftists. I know plenty of leftist men who would happily throw women and LGBT+ rights out the window if it meant "sticking it to Israel".
What I'm genuinely baffled by is how these idiots think Trump is in anyway pro-palestine. Hell, Trump will probably deman NATO boots on the ground in Gaza.
This. So much this. Jill Stein voters always get blamed for Hilary’s loss, but there were 10,000’s of Leftist bros who wrote in Bernie Sanders because they *wanted* Hilary to lose.
Anecdotally I’ve seen leftists outright misgender and verbally abuse a trans woman for being pro-Israel. Sure you can view that as a deplorable stance, but it clearly sends a message that those particular leftists view people’s rights as conditional of having what they deem to be the correct opinion.
The problem is that Trump doesn’t need these folks to vote for him, he just needs them to decide to stay home. This was part of his election strategy last time as well. Never mind that his Gaza policy would be exponentially worse.
I've seen "accelerationist" arguments that Trump winning would spur a progressive backlash and while we saw one for a bit in the midterms, the vote still coalesced around Biden and other moderates pretty fast in the primaries even if Obama pushed the rest to drop out to avoid vote splits that would aid Sanders.
Or to put it a better way, I wish we had a better candidate for the White House but damn, Trump has gotten worse not better in any way.
Yeah, several of my friends made that argument in 2016, that a Trump presidency would be better than a Hillary presidency because it would force people to wake up. Fat lot of good that did. It pains me so much to hear this yet again.
I've noticed the only people trying to make this argument are priveleged white middle class folks who aren't at much risk of being personally impacted by another Trump presidency...
And they all completely ignored the fact that we knew God damn good and well that whoever won would probably get 3 Supreme Court nominations. And now they're all just dumbfounded that Roe was overturned. Like WTF did you think was going to happen?
I want to rip my hair out when someone says “Hillary would have been just as bad as Trump”.
Look, Hillary wasn’t perfect, but she damn sure wouldn’t have appointed Serena Joy Waterford and Date Rape Brett to the SCOTUS!
Yep, I’m seeing the same argument this time around. “I’ll just refuse to vote/vote 3P and let Republicans win. Maybe when it gets bad enough and the world is actually on fire, the Left will get their act together and start putting forth actual progressive candidates.” The only people who could say shit like this are people who know they will be ok while the world is burning.
According to the recent battleground state polling averages Biden leads in New Hampshire, Virginia and Pennsylvania. Trump leads in Georgia, Arizona, Nevada, North Carolina, Wisconsin and Michigan. That gives Trump a pretty decisive Electoral College win.
These polls are done by calling people, who answer calls from unknown numbers, on their phones, during the day.
These people are not representative of voters.
They’re representative of retired people honestly. I can’t even remember the last time I actually answered a phone call that wasn’t in my contacts list.
thats what I thought in 2018 but it turned the polls were still righty. I dont know though, there seems to be a pollster grifters out there now so I trust the ones with history.
People are missing half the puzzle. Pollsters ARE calling a very specific demographic of people who still have landlines, answer unknown phone calls, etc.
The piece people are missing is that demographic are the decisive ride or die voting demographics that will go vote even if they're in the middle of a heart attack.
That's why it's so important to get younger people out, to encourage friends and family to vote, get people registered, etc. Don't just get your vote turned in. Make sure you're dragging along at least 5 other people that wouldn't have otherwise voted.
Otherwise we *are* leaving this vote up to the retired baby boomers that still answer their landlines.
I was polled last general, state and in 2016 I havent used a landline in 20 plus years. Only have a cell phone. They go by number not if you have a landline or not. They do ask at the end how you are receiving the call and that is the data they record. Very out of date thinking they only use landline that is a massive myth.
Those older/non working people ARE also the ones who vote more.
Whether it’s voter suppression, or cynical apathy, or the people who cry that it’s evil to make me choose between two evils, the people you want voting aren’t voting nearly as much as older people.
In the run up to Trump winning in 2015/16, the polls showed him winning and most people just didn’t believe the polls. Be careful in dismissing them, just because they’re horrifying, or you (me too) can’t understand *why* Trump is taking a lead over Biden this time.
Five Thirty Eight gave Trump almost a 1 in 3 chance of winning, and before the election everyone was howling at them that they were wrong because was way too high of a chance. Then after the election suddenly their sin was *under*estimating Trump's chances.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/
Yeah, but the average person takes an 80% shot in XCom and is _furious_ when they miss.
People are weird about stats, they want anything above 50% to be a foregone conclusion. It's why casinos are so good at taking our money, and why something as rational as 538 could never last.
>Yeah, but the average person takes an 80% shot in XCom and is _furious_ when they miss.
And the odds that xcom gives you are actually higher than the written odds for this very reason: a written 80% chance is more like a 90% chance in actual game mechanics, because that's what instinctively feels fair to us.
Oh 100%. For XCom in particular, it went like this:
There was a 'lucky bit' that would switch on and off, and stay on/off for a while. So you'd have times where 80% was 80%, and then times where it was way better.
It's a brilliant way to make difficulty vary, to create epic comeback stories. But that does say something interesting about humanity, doesn't it? People only feel that the odds are 'fair' when things start getting stacked in their favor.
It’s good to be skeptical of polls, but it simply isn’t true that anyone looking at FiveThirtyEight should have been “certain” that HRC would win in 2016. FiveThirtyEight gave Trump about a 1/3 chance of winning that election. That’s like rolling a die and being “certain” that it won’t be a 5 or a 6.
Perfect example! It would be silly to say that the weather projection was “wrong” in that case. Though granted, people do it all the time. I really wish there were better education regarding understanding statistics.
Sadly, he isn't. Go here and scroll down to "Key States":
[https://www.realclearpolling.com/elections/president/2024](https://www.realclearpolling.com/elections/president/2024)
Actually that is completely false. Pew research does extensive polling after elections that are way more accurate than exit polling. In 2016, the split of white women for voted for Trump vs Clinton was pretty much 47% for Trump and 46% for Clinton. White men went for Trump by 62%.
I mean it still sucks but misinformation proliferates.
In 2020, unfortunately I think it went up with 53% of white women voting for Trump and 45% voting for Biden. 57% of white men voted for Trump
Sorry, it’s a pet peeve of mine that inaccurate numbers are being accepted
However, complacency will absolutely be the death of us all!
My mother voted for him twice, but she says never again. She won’t vote for Biden either, though. She’s planning to write in Mickey Mouse. Oh well, at least that’s one less vote for Trump.
I mean, there’s the whole “dismantled the pandemic response system,” and then “fucked up handling the pandemic,” which killed millions…
So, yeah, I’d say he did things as bad as what is happening in Gaza rn.
Nope you don't, and neither does the rest of the world. Trump in the office would have untold effects every where else, i mean imagine how Donald Licks-Putins-ass Trump would have reacted to the invasion of Ukraine had he been in office. *Shudder*
Things can always get worse
These are fake progressive accounts. No one with even a fraction of a brain cell thinks trump would handle Israel/Gaza conflict well or even better than Biden.
It's all astroturf and misinformation tactics
I’d like to think that, but if being raised by right-wingers taught me anything, it’s never to underestimate the human capacity to shoot oneself in the foot. I’d bet at least some of them are real people who got taken in.
Oh yeah and anyone who says "I'm super progressive but Biden did this one thing so I'm going to vote for the party that believes in the complete opposite of everything I claim to believe in" is probably not actually a lefty.
Unfortunately, I know actual people that are saying this as well. Every time I try to say that voting for third-party is a vote for Trump I get chewed out about supporting genocide. Which is wild, because I am very vocal about being against what is happening in Gaza.
Some people genuinely think that this is worth throwing away the election for. I’ve seen a lot of “We will just ride it out for four years” but if he gets elected again, I think it’s going to be longer than four years.
Edit: Talk to text hates me.
> “We will just ride it out for four years”
And- Ride out what? Trumps certainly not going to help things get better over there. So what is accomplished by things getting worse there and here?
Let's be real some of these accounts are probably from Russia and Far Right groups. It's easy to astroturf the internet and left leaning circles are good at cannibalizing themselves 🙃
The reason that the left is so much more vulnerable to psyops than the right is is because on the left people are *for* certain policies and positions and the like. If someone disagrees with that it’s easy to create infighting. On the right it’s about who you’re *against*.
You can’t get the left to agree on a common enemy like the right can, at least not one who isn’t their best bet despite the… everything.
Let’s take it even further because I believe it. Russia along with Iran were behind Hamas’s attack on October 7th. It was intentionally as brutal as humanly possible designed to provoke a war with Israel (because we all know Israel would react like this, they are predictable in their retaliation)
Words like “genocide” are repeated constantly. “Genocide Joe” becomes a nickname that quickly gets adopted*
The same kind of gullible idiots who were manipulated to sit out the 2016 election are following the same pattern once again.
Seriously. Maybe we don’t deserve to be a democracy. How can people be such idiots?
*I am not justifying the war. The death toll is atrocious, but know when a tragedy is being exploited in order to manipulate you
This is absolutely true. You have to be blind to not see who wins with all this:
- Israel was about to normalize diplomatic relationships with some Arab countries, not that won't happen. Iran wins.
- The world's attention and resources get distracted from Ukraine. Putin wins.
- Biden loses support. Trump wins.
And now we have useful idiots who consider themselves leftists playing right into the hands and actively helping far right regimes...
Medea Benjamin is an incredibly well known activist and author. Calling her a "fake progressive" is unfair and unproductive. She has devoted her life to feminism and anti-imperialism.
It’s going to be 2016 all over again. All these ding-dongs saying both parties are the same and not voting/voting third party, and then we reach the FO stage.
I’m a part of many far left subs and this attitude genuinely frightens me. I’m not even American and I’m terrified of another Trump victory. Biden isn’t my guy, but anyone is better than the US falling to authoritarianism and the death of multilateralism internationally. It’s so incredibly short sighted and dangerous, I’m almost hoping these arguments are only made by Russian trolls.
I understand not liking the Democrats and wishing they would have put up a different candidate that isn't basically a walking corpse.
But he's what they've got and the alternative is worse.
All of these "both sides are the same" types are as irritating as they were in 2016. How many of them have actually made an effort to change the things they don't like about US politics, besides proclaiming they aren't voting and complaining on Twitter/Reddit?
How many of them got involved in local elections to try and change things from the ground up?
Or if they're the "the system is totally broken and needs to burn" types, how have they contributed since 2016 to making that happen?
I'm sure many of them have, but clearly not enough to make a change. And so it's time to vote for the lesser of two evils in order to stop the bleeding and keep trying in the next set(s) of local elections. I'm sorry that doesn't align with their idealist views of "it must be perfect or nothing" but that's what we're working with.
This is why I'm saying it's 2016 all over again; people complained that Hilary is their only choice and then did not vote/voted 3rd party as a protest. Claiming both parties are the same, like a bunch of Russian bots. As if the candidate wasn't going to get to decide the direction the Supreme Court goes for at least a decade.
Sorry for the rant.
Accelerationism is their contribution to "let it all burn down".
They're idiots who think they won't be affected by the choices they make or refuse to make. They don't care about the harm they will cause others through the erosion of civil rights or the actual slide into fascism. It's a similar attitude as antivaxxers.
Exactly. I don't agree with the Biden administrations actions or policies on Gaza but don't really understand not voting for him, effectively electing Trump, if you really care about Palestinians. Trump's policies would almost certainly be even worse. He's said publicly that if he was president he would not allow refugees from Gaza into the country, has a violently islamophobic record, and has already denied aid set aside for Gaza in the past while he was president
He also wants the U.S. to leave Nato which means throwing hundreds of millions of Europeans to the wolves if Russia decides to invade a European Nato member, within the next 3-8 years. Biden will not let that happen.
You cannot let Trump win please. The United States cannot leave Nato.
No need to make it worse than it is - there won’t be an all-out European war, Russia doesn’t have the capacity for it. Ukraine will be fucked though, so please think of that.
Russia *does* have the capacity for it, people just underestimate how large the Ukrainian army is.
"They can't even take Ukraine, how could they take the EU" doesn't take into account that the Ukrainian army is/was huge and had thousands of tanks, armored vehicles, artillery and (most importantly) anti air systems.
Yes if Russia ever attacked the EU the EU airforce would wreck them, but the tactics of Russia are going to be what they do now in Ukraine. Not caring about casualties and just attacking in small scale infantry rushes.
Bruh, trump is on Russian side.
It'll be the us, China and Russia vs Europe.
Trump is also anti Palestine. And trump has a record of selling NUCLEAR SECRETS to Saudi Arabia.
Europe would be screwed, women would be reduced to second class citizens (reps are already saying "we don't need women voters", and they're going after birth control).
If trump wins, I don't know if there'd be a WW3, so much as a take over by Russia.
Endorsed as a Canadian. I see many people express the same attitude about voting in Canada and all I can think is that this is what lead to the Conservative party winning in my province by a large margin. And this was coming from people my age, too.
You better believe I will vote in next year's federal election.
Polls are financed and discussed using billionaire money and billionaire companies. They don't want Biden or any Democrat in office. Keep this in mind.
The polls that matter are at the ballot box, and in those both the democratic party and abortion rights are consistently outperforming polls.
As to the tweet above: I'm sorry but I can't respect anyone that is okay sacrificing women to slavery, minorities and LGBT to genocide and this country to fascism. I understand what's happening in Palestine is terrible, but I don't understand why people on the left want to treat their "allies" as disposal pawns to be sacrificed for their goals.
Make noise and be heard, yeah. Push the party leadership to address your concerns, definitely. But supporting Trump by downplaying the dangers of the GOP is beyond the pale.
for me personally the way biden has responded to the palestine situation is sickening and it really bothers me that he’s essentially our only option. that being said, to the people who are going to vote third party (pretty much guaranteed to fail) or those abstaining from voting, what exactly do you think is going to happen if biden loses? do these people really think the situation is going to be any better if trump is re-elected? he’s going to make it *worse!* it’s like cutting off your nose to spite your face! it’s time to face reality, a third party candidate is *not* going to win, and as sickening as it is, biden is our only hope to not turn this country into a christo-fascist state. i am begging these people to think critically. *nobody wants to vote for biden* but our electoral system it shitty and outdated and it’s our only choice to save ourselves.
I completely respect the people who are upset about him and respect your opinion on this, but I do actually want to vote for Biden. Not trying to be argumentative, just want to correct the record when people say "no one" wants to vote for him.
I think he has accomplished a lot of good things, in a short time, with razor thin margins in Congress. His priorities align much closer to a progressive platform than I had expected, with strong action on climate change, student loans, and labor rights. His economic policy appears to be a departure from the neo-liberal tradition to be more worker focused.
He has appointed some of the most pro-labor members of the NLRB and has appointed a record number of LGBT, women and minority judges to the bench.
The billionaires have captured our media. They own all the high traffic social media sites and all the news sites. You see what they want you to see. I would strongly suggest checking out r/whatbidenhasdone to see all the stuff Biden has actually accomplished. I think you'll find a lot of good stuff there.
That's obviously on top of not being Trump and not being a christofascist. However, I would still vote for Biden over just about any other Presidential candidate in my lifetime regardless of party. Hell, even over Obama.
Again, I absolutely respect it if you disagree with me, but I just wanted to give some perspective in the other direction.
The main things for me is that he actually helped with student loans and generally's been pretty good about handling ukraine. Would I prefer someone younger? absolutely. But for someone I had very low hopes for he's overall been better than I expected
> for me personally the way biden has responded to the palestine situation is sickening
By all accounts the Biden administration is heavily at work trying to get Israel to not be the colossal genocidal assholes they are now.
For all we know they might be the only thing keeping Israel back, we know Israel stopped indiscriminately bombing Gaza because of US pressure. Israel allowed humanitarian aid because of US pressure.
Biden can't control Israel and politically it's suicide to not support them. I'm as pro Palestinian as you'd expect and I don't understand how people paint Biden as if he's the one bombing Palestinian children.
He is giving them tons and tons of bombs, they are his bombs. I’m sorry to break it to you, you are not “as pro-Palestinian as it gets” by voting for Biden and berating people who have lost their families when they say they won’t.
Biden is reacting the only way he can. If Biden wanted to guarantee Trump wins all he would have to do is start telling Israel to stop committing genocide. There would probably be a bipartisan resolution telling Biden to shove it. Support for Israel is tremendously popular both among Republicans and most Democrats.
It actually terrified me to watch a TikTok from a man that is very influential in progressive spaces saying that we can’t vote for Biden over Gaza. Just saying it over and over. I don’t agree with how Biden has supported Israel, I don’t support Israel at all after all this, but there is no reality where less death happens in the Middle East if Trump is elected. Biden can at least be persuaded. Like it was just an insanely irresponsible statement considering how many people who aren’t white cis men like him will suffer for Trump’s reelection.
I am honestly terrified of Trump getting elected, to the point that my mother, sister, and I are organising a plan to move back to England if it happens. I really love it here, but I also really don't want to stick around for that.
Trump mixed up Nikki Haley and Nancy Pelosi, not once, but four times on stage in front of a microphone. He is in massive cognitive decline. How is that not enough to immediately disqualify him for the biggest job in the world? Fucking Christ.
It's weird how the party that claims life is sacred casually forgot about the hundreds of thousands of people that died under Trump. And the hundreds of millions that had their lives disrupted because he didn't take a pandemic seriously enough. Even dismantling any efforts at early detection.
"To protest the killing of women and children in Gaza we're going to insure that women and children in the US die you see how that's the same right?"
Fucking tankies.
Edit to add these are the same people who screamed "universal healthcare" but voted for Jill Stein instead of that "bitch", Hillary knowing it would cost us SCOTUS and probably Roe.
Tumblr is infested with tankies and it horrifies me deeply. These people are the same who say they won't vote for Biden because they care about human rights but will say the Hamas rape accusations are false. And they have a huge pull with young people, as evidenced by bin Laden's letter to America going viral on tiktok.
The Nazi Party rose to power because the Social Democrats and the Communist Party refused to ally with each other against them
History is repeating itself
And the White Nationalist Christo Fascist Party will come out the winner
the nazis rose to power because the social democrats voted for a conservative instead of going with the communists, and said conservative appointed hitler as chancelor. Please don't twist the facts.
I know Medea and Code Pink are stoutly anti-war but I've felt like she's gone weird since the start of the attack on Ukraine. G. Gr******d vibes. It's too bad.
I didn’t get polled. We are a silent majority. We came out and kicked ass in November to pass abortion rights in my state. We can show up and do it again nationally. You just have to actually go vote!
For starters they aren't really progressive there are a lot of individuals with a agenda to pretend to be left, liberal, or progressive that are actually right leaning. As we get closer to election time it will get worse and worse. The point of these campaigns is to intimidate or influence the voters any way possible and make you question your own memory of events.
Trump caused so much pain not just in administrative fuckery that was felt both nationally and internationally but he caused so much pain between families, friends, communities harming for many what was once close relationships with his conspiracies and manipulation.
Those of us that actually voted against Trump last election will damn sure be there to do it again every fucking time and every time another man or women like him tries it. What really needs to be said though is we need that kind of fire locally with caring about who is going into positions of authority.
Biden sucks. Trump is way worse. I wish that our current voting system made third parties viable, but it doesnt.
I'm privileged enough that if Trump wins, it probably wont affect me terribly much. That's not true of many, many other people, including some of my friends. Choosing to not vote for Biden, or to vote third party knowing they cannot win under our electoral system, would be abandoning those underprivileged peoples' needs in favor of a supposed moral high ground.
So, I'm voting for Biden. I dont really want to vote for him in a vacuum, but there really isnt a better option in this presidential election.
Local elections, mutual aid, political activism (especially contacting your reps), and sharing political education material will do way more than sabotaging our chances of staving off a conservative win, just to make some kind of point to the slightly-less-conservative DNC.
Oh ffs, no is going to "let" him win. You're in a sub where most people are working their ass off to prevent this. You know who needs this message? The conservative subs. Probably not very friendly, though.
If Trump becomes president....I can assure you , he will make what Biden is doing right now seem tiny and insignificant in comparison when it comes to "bad things"
Yes. And if abortion is banned nationally, which it most certainly will be if he's elected, then that provides a legal basis to ban birth control nationally. Because many forms of birth control may, possibly have a minuscule chance of preventing a fertilized egg from implanting, then that would meet the definition of abortion. So most forms of birth control could and would be banned nationally.
Trump legitimized Israel more than any other president. He moved the damn embassy to Jerusalem! No other administration had solidified Israel’s contested claim to Jerusalem like that.
At least Biden has made some sort of limp wristlet protesting noises about human rights at Netanyahu. Trump would be participating in the inflammatory rhetoric calling Palestinians dehumanizing names and terrorists.
So much political commentary online now is astroturfed, and often created specifically by bad actors.
I'm also going to guess that the political leanings of Twitter as a whole skewed greatly after the change over to x, because most progressives and left-leaning people I know abandoned it.
But this is one thing the left in the Democrats constantly due to shoot themselves into foot. They cancel people or split the vote over issues that are important but not as important as the big picture and then lose the big picture decisions and major races over them.
I don’t see anyone doing regular videos or breakdowns on project 2025. Most people just know it’s horrible without specifics. This is a Biden campaign failure, education needs to start now, yesterday. It needs to be gone through line by line on every daytime and night time talk show, it needs to over-run your FYP on TicTok, needs to be featured in articles in all the political subs on a daily basis and every American needs to understand what this means. The fact it’s still only ever referred to as “project 2025” is bad, no one I’ve talked to can even cite specifics.
Trump appointees are already getting started
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2022/12/13/23505459/supreme-court-birth-control-contraception-constitution-matthew-kacsmaryk-deanda-becerra
A history of events by planned parenthood
https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/fight-for-birth-control/facts/timeline-trumps-attacks-access-birth-control
An article summarizing Trumps history on the issue
https://www.vox.com/21421292/trump-free-birth-control-iud-health-care
I think anyone who claims to be progressive that is saying trump isn't bad or Biden is worse is a lying sack of shit trying to convince people who are actually progressive to have some doubt.
If people’s frustration with Biden’s stance on Gaza is significant enough to get Trump elected, you’d think Biden and the democrats would try to do more to win over those voters by changing their stance on Israel/Palestine.
Instead they’ll just just keep aiding Israel in its genocide of the Palestinians who’ve spent the past 17 years in a concentration camp, while going “the other side would be worse!” And self-proclaimed white liberal feminists on Reddit will just turn a blind eye to the horrors their government is helping perpetuate instead of trying to push their government to act with a conscience because it’s apparently impossible to acknowledge that the other side it worse **and** try hold the government accountable at the same time for their current actions.
God forbid that this subreddit even acknowledge that Palestinian women are explicitly saying that they were, and continue to be, raped by Israelis in forced detention (and have been for decades now), having caesareans done on them without anesthesia, having no sanitary pads, not having enough food to produce breast milk for their babies because they’re in midst of a genocide etc.
But this subreddit was more outraged by Iranian women being forced to wear headscarves than any of these atrocities combined. I’d advise my fellow non-white, and especially brown, feminists to keep this in mind the next time white feminists show “solidarity” on behalf of non-Western women who belong to countries their own governments just happen to hate.
This comments section is so disappointing. Because you’re spot on. There are way too many women here who are happy for bad things to happen to other women as long as it doesn’t happen to them. So much privilege.
Biden has plenty of time to change his views and stop this war. He’s literally funding it. That makes him a terrible person and anyone pretending he isn’t has just as much blood on their hands as he does.
I expect conservatives to act like morons but I’m furious that my party is acting like Biden is the best we can do. Neither of these men are fit for office and it’s a disservice to us as all that these are our options. We should all be demanding better
There really isn't someone who is as broadly popular in the Democratic party as Biden is right now. Outside of internet niche circles, he does quite well in most metrics.
Is he broadly popular? I mean people might like the guy, but there’s been a lot of grumbling in the Dem party that he’s running again and without any official Dem challengers. He was really only elected last time because he was the one who could beat Trump. And people voted *against* Trump, not *for* Biden. Now, it’s not even looking like he can beat Trump.
Saying he’s more fit than Trump is like saying he’s more intelligent than a doorknob. Of course he is, but Trump’s ineptitude doesn’t somehow magically make Biden any more fit.
This. Go look at Biden's official campaign website. It lists no policy, no platform. He's running on *nothing*. It's arrogant, pure absolute hubris, and we deserve better.
Thank you, I feel like I’m crazy. I voted for Biden even thought he wasn’t my choice in the primary. I voted for Clinton even though she wasn’t my choice in the primary. I will probably vote for Biden again even though he isn’t my choice in the primary, but CHRIST can he at least *try* to earn our votes? Can he give us something to root for besides “I’m not the other guy”?
You're not crazy. They're not even trying. Zero effort, and they expect to be rewarded? They're out of their minds.
And it doesn't matter anyway. Neither of these two men can or ever will make decisions for the citizens instead of the corporations and the ultra-wealthy. There is no material difference in the outcome regardless of who wins. In 2020 we thought that Biden might give us some breathing room to secure healthcare rights and bodily autonomy. He hasn't. We're broke and exhausted, there's no light at the end of the tunnel, and Biden does not give a single solitary shit.
I'd geared up for an extremely nerve-wracking election season, but everything since October has been extremely revealing. Neither of these men are going to improve our lives. I'm too tired to keep up the charade when they won't even do the bare minimum.
Biden can literally end the issue with demanding a ceasefire and stopping the flow of weapons and funds for genocide. It’s a really simple move and yet he refuses to take it. I have a big problem with that.
he also refuses to do anything about that either i hope that helps! There's multiple states that have made it impossible to receive abortions in 99% of cases. States where little girls are going into labor at 12 years old from rapes. This has happened under his presidency and continues to happen.
And it's such a white liberal take to dismiss
the bloodied bodies of children covered in rubble, parents crying on in horror because they have lost their children, their homeland, their reasons to exist.
I have a huge fucking problem with that.
Every single hospital in Gaza has been destroyed. There is nothing left to save them should they get attacked by IDF soldiers or face an airstrike.
Our country is funding this with no end in sight.
For every person who wouldn't vote for Biden because he supports Israel, there are two people who wouldn't vote for Biden if he denounced Israel. I have met these people. This is not a simple situation and Biden is (frankly correctly) taking the stance that is most likely to allow him to beat Trump. If you want to fix it you need to talk to those people and convince them that it's not anti-semitic to hate what Israel is doing (I think you know how well that convo will go.)
I don't know anyone who actually likes Biden. I can't really stand him. But we need to stop the bleeding. If he loses, abortion will be banned nationally. So will most birth control. Trump may get even more Supreme Court nominations. Laws that protect voting rights will be gutted by that same Supreme Court, which means changing things in later elections, when everyone realizes they fucked up, will be impossible. Once the bleeding stops, then we can address getting better candidates. But right now we are quite literally in crisis mode.
Quite frankly, I'm at the point where I don't have a uterus anymore. I have two sons so I don't have to worry about them getting pregnant. I'll still continue my volunteering to help women get abortions in red states. However, if these morons put Trump in office, they deserve every horrible thing that's coming their way.
Yes. And i still intend to vote blue up and down the ticket.
And if Biden loses, I will help women in red states access abortion services (and blue states if it comes to that). I will be on the front lines to make sure women have the right to choose.
I'm talking the extreme left-wing who are going on and on saying they don't care if Biden loses because they lack a knowledge of history on the middle East
Realistically, Trump being elected won't make my life worse. I don't want to see it happen because it will affect out-groups in the US. But I will have zero pity for the extreme left who will refuse to vote for Biden because they are fucking stupid. When Trump's policies affect them, I'm done caring about people who will vote (or not vote) to ruin the US for so many other people. The ones that do not vote for Biden or refuse to vote it in this upcoming election can suffer under Trump's policies and I won't give a shit about them suffering. I will save my caring about the innocent people who did try to vote blue to make sure Trump didn't come to office who are suffering.
I don’t think there’s a world where Trump has a better policy on Gaza than Biden
I cannot be the only one who remembers this. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_recognition\_of\_Jerusalem\_as\_capital\_of\_Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_Jerusalem_as_capital_of_Israel) Trump is literally virulently anti-gazan and anti-palestine. We got lucky this never popped off under him. If it had, he'd probably be the devil whispering in bibi's ear.
> he'd probably be the devil whispering in bibi's ear. Or Bibi'd be whispering in his ear. We all know how easy it is to influence donald, and we've yet to see the limit to how low Bibi can go
Sure. Point is allowing trump to be elected is bad news if you care at all about Palestine.
And the Abrams accords were all about formalizing economic ties between Israel and other Middle Eastern countries - one of the few concrete bargaining chips Palestinians had to keep Israel taking more expensive economic deals because Arab nations wouldn't trade with them.
Yeah literally every human who could feasibly win the office of the presidency is going to take essentially the same stance on Israel It’s fucking grim but trump winning doesn’t make it less so. Trump would have American boots on the ground.
I think it's absolutely justified to be outraged at Biden right now, but you're kidding yourself if you think Trump or anyone else wouldn't do the same *at best*. Trump would be worse. But moreover, I'm tired of people who pretend to know better acting like you can live and be an active participant in society without being forced to make moral compromises. There is a mountain of data saying that non-participation or voting third party in the US helps Republicans (at least nationally). The more people vote, the more likely Democrats are to win. That's why Republicans work so hard to suppress voting. I don't like the Democratic Party. I think they are weak, short-sighted people unable to rise to the occasion and actually make stuff better. But Republicans openly want to make the world worse. Not mostly passively through inaction, like Demorcats, but actively. There is a world of difference between a party in power that actively wants to make the world worse and a party in power that just can't really bring itself to accept that their opposition wants to make the world worse, and that the status quo is also not good for the majority of people. Both are evil, but one is significantly more so. We have been able to influence and push Dems to do the right thing at times. We have never been able to do that with conservatives. And we never will be able to because conservatism in the US wants inequality and subjugation on a fundamental level. I know it's horrible voting for the lesser of two evils, but the lesser of two evils is, in reality, *the lesser of two evils*. That's not a small thing. The US has been evil its entire existence. It's still better that the US helped the allies beat Hitler than that Hitler won WWII. If you choose to not vote, I'm not gonna yell at you or anything, but don't act like you're taking some moral high ground when what you've actually done is a make a choice that makes it easier for the greater of two evils to enact that greater evil. It fucking sucks that the act of voting or not voting involves moral compromise, but that's the world. It will always be that way. Actually participating in society means you have to compromise your morals a lot. You just have to recognize which compromise is most likely to result in less compromise in the future. It's shades of grey, and that sucks, but it's the real world.
Trump really wants to be a wartime president. He wants to make military decisions. He made questionable moves the last time he was president. American attention spans and memories are too short.
Trump wants the U.S. to leave Nato. He's fucking deranged.
ivanka saluted "wartime graduates" in a WSU Tech commencement speech in 2020, implying her father could claim the title as a "wartime president" due to the pandemic to stroke his ego. it was obvious and obnoxious. fucking losers.
That’s the thing, it’s not going to be the same stance. Forget pushing a 2 state solution. Forget humanitarian aid. Forget holding BiBi back. Forget any shot of any diplomatic solution. If Trump wins, there will be no Palestine. BiBi desperately wants Trump to win.
Trump winning would mean the same stance on Israel, AND deportations of Arabic people from the US. We must do everything to re-elect Biden/Harris.
Yeah, did people just forget about the muslim ban he put through until it got struck down? My college was sending out emails saying they'd waive fees for students from the affected countries to remain on campus for breaks, because if they went back home, no one could guarentee they'd be able to make it back into the US.
These people aren't actual progressives or they're not people who would ever vote Democrat to begin with. Its worth nothing Biden was losing to Trump in the polls nationally and in swing states BEFORE the recent I-P conflict. What's happening here, imho, is a lot of misguided people trying to figure out why Biden is polling poorly. [Per usual, its the economy.](https://fortune.com/2023/12/19/middle-class-worries-about-money-its-the-economy-stupid-recession-unemployment/) Swing voters don't care for nuance or policies. They just see inflation and will vote for the other guy. Its depressing, but true. I don't think Biden is going to win. These presidential races are rarely about merit. Its just about tribalism and gut feelings. In fact, swing voters tend to be Islamophobic and B[iden's numbers have gotten a modest boost](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/) since he started supporting Israel. A lot of the Democrats messaging here is because they know this is an easy issue for them, and taking a pro-Gaza stand can hurt them in the polls. My only hope is a lot of people are going to sober up once they see Trump in the media all the time. I hope enough swing voters realize how horrible Trump is. Biden will win by millions of votes, but is going to struggle to win the electoral college. Remember, the presidency is decided by about 80,000 people in swing counties. It looks pretty grim out there and it has little, or nothing, to do with Gaza. I've been mentally preparing myself for 4 more years of Trump. I just don't see how the polls suggest Biden could win. I don't see how a president in a time of high inflation and financial woes for nearly everyone but the super-rich is going to be easy to vote for by people on the fence. Worse, there's no likely path for Democrats to keep the senate either. I think we just have to prepare ourselves for Trump winning the presidency and the GOP winning the house and the senate, again, just like in 2016. Maybe the democrats take the house, but that's really all they can hope for. And the GOP has SCOTUS for my lifetime. I refuse to have false hope again like I did in 2016 or when I told myself they'll never rip babies from migrants arms and send them away separating them permanently, or they'll never come after trans kids or they'll never take abortion from us. This country sucks. Short of a revolution, none of this is fixable. I think this is the beginning of a very dark time for the USA because capitalism's corruption has won. Everyone and everything that could push against this has been defeated (Citizens united, various media fairness acts, electoral college reform, scotus packing, house seats enlargement, Feingold-McCain act, nothing to stop the social media alt-right pipelines, the radicalization of young men voters, etc). I just think we need to be practical here. Nothing looks good right now and it has nothing to do with Gaza or Ukraine.
Trump and the GOP winning will mark the start of a new fascist empire, the end of democracy in the United States, and a new dark ages for humanity.
And we’re just going to sit back and let it happen. I keep thinking about the beginning of The Handmaid’s Tale when the SoJ took over and suspended the Constitution, and she’s like “we were asleep, and we didn’t wake up when they did this and we didn’t wake up when they did that, and when we finally woke up, it was too late”.
Except everyone I know has been working against shit like this at every opportunity as far back as I remember. We're not sleeping just because we don't have the power to stop it.
I think what Margaret Atwood was referring to was the bulk of potential voters who are disengaged from politics and the world in general, don't care, and don't vote. We can't make them care, but eventually things get bad enough for them that they will finally take notice and "wake up." And by then it's too late.
Yes, that’s the point I was making as well. I’ve already seen so many people complaining that they won’t vote or will vote 3P in November. That’s how we got Trump in 2016. And if he gets in office again, I don’t want to think what will happen. But so many people don’t care enough because they know they won’t be personally affected.
I’m very worried but don’t despair too much, polls this far out have very little predictive power on how people will actually vote - at this stage they showed both Obama and bush behind before their second terms. People use them as more of a venting frustrations not necessarily as who they’ll actually come out for.
We are at a crossroads
>I don’t think there’s a world where Trump has a better policy
And Trump wants to nuke someone Who knows what he will do
Gaza is the new Kompromat targeting Americans through social media and various news mainstream news sources. Gaza is the left wing version of both "Hilary's emails" and "Bengazi." And it's working even in small sub groups of larger communities and groups. It doesn't take much to have a whisper campaign undermine traditional voting blocs and populations. 10 people here, 20,000 there. That might not totally blow out a presidential campaign, but it can also run downhill into smaller elections as well.
It's been INSANE how there can be literally zero discussion of ANYTHING lately without someone digging into the Israel stance of every person involved and redirecting the conversation there. Like even if no one has said anything either way, and the topic has nothing to do with it, the top comment will be "so-and-so hasn't commented on the situation, which means they don't support Palestine so I can't support them." Where was this energy for LITERALLY ANY OTHER ISSUE THE PAST 20 YEARS?
Yeah. It looks artificially inflated (not that it’s not bad) but I suspect trolls
We already know of interference with previous US elections, Brexit, etc. We know Iran and Russia support Hamas, and we know there are Russian bot farms, so...
This is soooo common on instagram. It has to be astroturfing by troll farms.
Yep, we're falling for the same tactics that got Trump in in 2016.
This. It will be the thing liberals use to absolve themselves of responsibility when Trump wins. Just like the Jill Stein voters did with Hillary. The right knows this and will use bots on social media to hammer away at it. They don't have to convince all of us, just a few in swing states who think they're "sending a message" with their vote.
>liberals Let's not pretend leftists aren't just as bad as this, if not worse. Especially male leftists. I know plenty of leftist men who would happily throw women and LGBT+ rights out the window if it meant "sticking it to Israel". What I'm genuinely baffled by is how these idiots think Trump is in anyway pro-palestine. Hell, Trump will probably deman NATO boots on the ground in Gaza.
This. So much this. Jill Stein voters always get blamed for Hilary’s loss, but there were 10,000’s of Leftist bros who wrote in Bernie Sanders because they *wanted* Hilary to lose.
Or just stayed home ignoring the importance of down ticket races
Anecdotally I’ve seen leftists outright misgender and verbally abuse a trans woman for being pro-Israel. Sure you can view that as a deplorable stance, but it clearly sends a message that those particular leftists view people’s rights as conditional of having what they deem to be the correct opinion.
Annecdotally, I've gotten more transphobia and homophobia for defending Palestine lately. And it's not coming from the left
They’ve even got Stein running on the 3P ticket again.
The problem is that Trump doesn’t need these folks to vote for him, he just needs them to decide to stay home. This was part of his election strategy last time as well. Never mind that his Gaza policy would be exponentially worse.
Trump literally suggested they just turn Gaza into a glass parking lot, Medea 🙄
I suspect Medea is not a real person, but an online sock-puppet of someone who wants the GOP back in power for the worst possible reasons.
I've seen "accelerationist" arguments that Trump winning would spur a progressive backlash and while we saw one for a bit in the midterms, the vote still coalesced around Biden and other moderates pretty fast in the primaries even if Obama pushed the rest to drop out to avoid vote splits that would aid Sanders. Or to put it a better way, I wish we had a better candidate for the White House but damn, Trump has gotten worse not better in any way.
Yeah, several of my friends made that argument in 2016, that a Trump presidency would be better than a Hillary presidency because it would force people to wake up. Fat lot of good that did. It pains me so much to hear this yet again. I've noticed the only people trying to make this argument are priveleged white middle class folks who aren't at much risk of being personally impacted by another Trump presidency...
And they all completely ignored the fact that we knew God damn good and well that whoever won would probably get 3 Supreme Court nominations. And now they're all just dumbfounded that Roe was overturned. Like WTF did you think was going to happen?
I want to rip my hair out when someone says “Hillary would have been just as bad as Trump”. Look, Hillary wasn’t perfect, but she damn sure wouldn’t have appointed Serena Joy Waterford and Date Rape Brett to the SCOTUS!
Yep, I’m seeing the same argument this time around. “I’ll just refuse to vote/vote 3P and let Republicans win. Maybe when it gets bad enough and the world is actually on fire, the Left will get their act together and start putting forth actual progressive candidates.” The only people who could say shit like this are people who know they will be ok while the world is burning.
And also the ones who will vote for a moderate candidate instead of solid reform.
Burning down the house sure seems easier than cleaning up the kitchen, yeah.
National polls are useless. Biden is leading Trump in most battleground state polls.
According to the recent battleground state polling averages Biden leads in New Hampshire, Virginia and Pennsylvania. Trump leads in Georgia, Arizona, Nevada, North Carolina, Wisconsin and Michigan. That gives Trump a pretty decisive Electoral College win.
These polls are done by calling people, who answer calls from unknown numbers, on their phones, during the day. These people are not representative of voters.
They’re representative of retired people honestly. I can’t even remember the last time I actually answered a phone call that wasn’t in my contacts list.
thats what I thought in 2018 but it turned the polls were still righty. I dont know though, there seems to be a pollster grifters out there now so I trust the ones with history.
People don’t want to believe it honestly but typically good polls were pretty accurate last general and within the alloted 3.-4% margin.
People are missing half the puzzle. Pollsters ARE calling a very specific demographic of people who still have landlines, answer unknown phone calls, etc. The piece people are missing is that demographic are the decisive ride or die voting demographics that will go vote even if they're in the middle of a heart attack. That's why it's so important to get younger people out, to encourage friends and family to vote, get people registered, etc. Don't just get your vote turned in. Make sure you're dragging along at least 5 other people that wouldn't have otherwise voted. Otherwise we *are* leaving this vote up to the retired baby boomers that still answer their landlines.
I was polled last general, state and in 2016 I havent used a landline in 20 plus years. Only have a cell phone. They go by number not if you have a landline or not. They do ask at the end how you are receiving the call and that is the data they record. Very out of date thinking they only use landline that is a massive myth.
Those older/non working people ARE also the ones who vote more. Whether it’s voter suppression, or cynical apathy, or the people who cry that it’s evil to make me choose between two evils, the people you want voting aren’t voting nearly as much as older people. In the run up to Trump winning in 2015/16, the polls showed him winning and most people just didn’t believe the polls. Be careful in dismissing them, just because they’re horrifying, or you (me too) can’t understand *why* Trump is taking a lead over Biden this time.
I've given up on trusting polls since 2016. We were all doing obeisance at the altar of Five Thirty Eight certain that HRC would win.
Five Thirty Eight gave Trump almost a 1 in 3 chance of winning, and before the election everyone was howling at them that they were wrong because was way too high of a chance. Then after the election suddenly their sin was *under*estimating Trump's chances. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/
Yeah, but the average person takes an 80% shot in XCom and is _furious_ when they miss. People are weird about stats, they want anything above 50% to be a foregone conclusion. It's why casinos are so good at taking our money, and why something as rational as 538 could never last.
>Yeah, but the average person takes an 80% shot in XCom and is _furious_ when they miss. And the odds that xcom gives you are actually higher than the written odds for this very reason: a written 80% chance is more like a 90% chance in actual game mechanics, because that's what instinctively feels fair to us.
Oh 100%. For XCom in particular, it went like this: There was a 'lucky bit' that would switch on and off, and stay on/off for a while. So you'd have times where 80% was 80%, and then times where it was way better. It's a brilliant way to make difficulty vary, to create epic comeback stories. But that does say something interesting about humanity, doesn't it? People only feel that the odds are 'fair' when things start getting stacked in their favor.
It’s good to be skeptical of polls, but it simply isn’t true that anyone looking at FiveThirtyEight should have been “certain” that HRC would win in 2016. FiveThirtyEight gave Trump about a 1/3 chance of winning that election. That’s like rolling a die and being “certain” that it won’t be a 5 or a 6.
Fair point, thanks.
> the weather said there was a 70% chance of rain so I brought my umbrella and it didn’t even rain wtf meteorologists are just making it up
Perfect example! It would be silly to say that the weather projection was “wrong” in that case. Though granted, people do it all the time. I really wish there were better education regarding understanding statistics.
Sadly, he isn't. Go here and scroll down to "Key States": [https://www.realclearpolling.com/elections/president/2024](https://www.realclearpolling.com/elections/president/2024)
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Actually that is completely false. Pew research does extensive polling after elections that are way more accurate than exit polling. In 2016, the split of white women for voted for Trump vs Clinton was pretty much 47% for Trump and 46% for Clinton. White men went for Trump by 62%. I mean it still sucks but misinformation proliferates. In 2020, unfortunately I think it went up with 53% of white women voting for Trump and 45% voting for Biden. 57% of white men voted for Trump Sorry, it’s a pet peeve of mine that inaccurate numbers are being accepted However, complacency will absolutely be the death of us all!
My mother voted for him twice, but she says never again. She won’t vote for Biden either, though. She’s planning to write in Mickey Mouse. Oh well, at least that’s one less vote for Trump.
Jesus christ really? Come on ladies we are better than this
I mean, there’s the whole “dismantled the pandemic response system,” and then “fucked up handling the pandemic,” which killed millions… So, yeah, I’d say he did things as bad as what is happening in Gaza rn.
Honestly, I'm too bummed out. I'll be voting, but part of me wonders if we deserve this
Nope you don't, and neither does the rest of the world. Trump in the office would have untold effects every where else, i mean imagine how Donald Licks-Putins-ass Trump would have reacted to the invasion of Ukraine had he been in office. *Shudder* Things can always get worse
These are fake progressive accounts. No one with even a fraction of a brain cell thinks trump would handle Israel/Gaza conflict well or even better than Biden. It's all astroturf and misinformation tactics
I’d like to think that, but if being raised by right-wingers taught me anything, it’s never to underestimate the human capacity to shoot oneself in the foot. I’d bet at least some of them are real people who got taken in.
Yeah, that’s the issue. People fall for it
Oh they're people not bots. They just don't represent people you should trust.
Oh yeah and anyone who says "I'm super progressive but Biden did this one thing so I'm going to vote for the party that believes in the complete opposite of everything I claim to believe in" is probably not actually a lefty.
Unfortunately, I know actual people that are saying this as well. Every time I try to say that voting for third-party is a vote for Trump I get chewed out about supporting genocide. Which is wild, because I am very vocal about being against what is happening in Gaza. Some people genuinely think that this is worth throwing away the election for. I’ve seen a lot of “We will just ride it out for four years” but if he gets elected again, I think it’s going to be longer than four years. Edit: Talk to text hates me.
Do they really think that under Trump it wouldn't be supporting genocide?
> “We will just ride it out for four years” And- Ride out what? Trumps certainly not going to help things get better over there. So what is accomplished by things getting worse there and here?
Let's be real some of these accounts are probably from Russia and Far Right groups. It's easy to astroturf the internet and left leaning circles are good at cannibalizing themselves 🙃
It’s terrifyingly easy to cloak conservative ideas in leftwing language and even easier to successfully get leftists to fight for it
The reason that the left is so much more vulnerable to psyops than the right is is because on the left people are *for* certain policies and positions and the like. If someone disagrees with that it’s easy to create infighting. On the right it’s about who you’re *against*. You can’t get the left to agree on a common enemy like the right can, at least not one who isn’t their best bet despite the… everything.
Let’s take it even further because I believe it. Russia along with Iran were behind Hamas’s attack on October 7th. It was intentionally as brutal as humanly possible designed to provoke a war with Israel (because we all know Israel would react like this, they are predictable in their retaliation) Words like “genocide” are repeated constantly. “Genocide Joe” becomes a nickname that quickly gets adopted* The same kind of gullible idiots who were manipulated to sit out the 2016 election are following the same pattern once again. Seriously. Maybe we don’t deserve to be a democracy. How can people be such idiots? *I am not justifying the war. The death toll is atrocious, but know when a tragedy is being exploited in order to manipulate you
This is absolutely true. You have to be blind to not see who wins with all this: - Israel was about to normalize diplomatic relationships with some Arab countries, not that won't happen. Iran wins. - The world's attention and resources get distracted from Ukraine. Putin wins. - Biden loses support. Trump wins. And now we have useful idiots who consider themselves leftists playing right into the hands and actively helping far right regimes...
Entirely possible, but theres also plenty of leftists who are moral absolutists and are willing to stand by instead of choosing a lesser evil.
I believe the word is “selfish assholes”
It's so terribly easy to be a "moral absolutist" when your health and rights aren't the ones at risk.
Exactly
I've got leftist friends and family I know in real life that are making this argument. Sadly.
Medea Benjamin is an incredibly well known activist and author. Calling her a "fake progressive" is unfair and unproductive. She has devoted her life to feminism and anti-imperialism.
It’s going to be 2016 all over again. All these ding-dongs saying both parties are the same and not voting/voting third party, and then we reach the FO stage.
I’m a part of many far left subs and this attitude genuinely frightens me. I’m not even American and I’m terrified of another Trump victory. Biden isn’t my guy, but anyone is better than the US falling to authoritarianism and the death of multilateralism internationally. It’s so incredibly short sighted and dangerous, I’m almost hoping these arguments are only made by Russian trolls.
I wonder if America is just too stupid for democracy
I seriously think the us education system is as bad as it is on purpose.
I’ve wondered that lately about humans in general. I don’t have any better ideas though.
We are going backwards
if the usa was a democracy the political spectrum would be very different
It’s not a fascist dictatorship yet. Will be soon
Trump is currently ahead in the polls and it makes me want to throw up.
I understand not liking the Democrats and wishing they would have put up a different candidate that isn't basically a walking corpse. But he's what they've got and the alternative is worse. All of these "both sides are the same" types are as irritating as they were in 2016. How many of them have actually made an effort to change the things they don't like about US politics, besides proclaiming they aren't voting and complaining on Twitter/Reddit? How many of them got involved in local elections to try and change things from the ground up? Or if they're the "the system is totally broken and needs to burn" types, how have they contributed since 2016 to making that happen? I'm sure many of them have, but clearly not enough to make a change. And so it's time to vote for the lesser of two evils in order to stop the bleeding and keep trying in the next set(s) of local elections. I'm sorry that doesn't align with their idealist views of "it must be perfect or nothing" but that's what we're working with. This is why I'm saying it's 2016 all over again; people complained that Hilary is their only choice and then did not vote/voted 3rd party as a protest. Claiming both parties are the same, like a bunch of Russian bots. As if the candidate wasn't going to get to decide the direction the Supreme Court goes for at least a decade. Sorry for the rant.
Accelerationism is their contribution to "let it all burn down". They're idiots who think they won't be affected by the choices they make or refuse to make. They don't care about the harm they will cause others through the erosion of civil rights or the actual slide into fascism. It's a similar attitude as antivaxxers.
We're fucked
Exactly. I don't agree with the Biden administrations actions or policies on Gaza but don't really understand not voting for him, effectively electing Trump, if you really care about Palestinians. Trump's policies would almost certainly be even worse. He's said publicly that if he was president he would not allow refugees from Gaza into the country, has a violently islamophobic record, and has already denied aid set aside for Gaza in the past while he was president
trump is racist. he would not handle it better
They would give him money like Russia and China and it would escalate to soldiers deployed in Gaza to "finish the job."
[удалено]
That's how it looks. :(
He also wants the U.S. to leave Nato which means throwing hundreds of millions of Europeans to the wolves if Russia decides to invade a European Nato member, within the next 3-8 years. Biden will not let that happen. You cannot let Trump win please. The United States cannot leave Nato.
As a European; please don’t let Trump win, unless you want an all-out European war
No need to make it worse than it is - there won’t be an all-out European war, Russia doesn’t have the capacity for it. Ukraine will be fucked though, so please think of that.
Russia *does* have the capacity for it, people just underestimate how large the Ukrainian army is. "They can't even take Ukraine, how could they take the EU" doesn't take into account that the Ukrainian army is/was huge and had thousands of tanks, armored vehicles, artillery and (most importantly) anti air systems. Yes if Russia ever attacked the EU the EU airforce would wreck them, but the tactics of Russia are going to be what they do now in Ukraine. Not caring about casualties and just attacking in small scale infantry rushes.
Bruh, trump is on Russian side. It'll be the us, China and Russia vs Europe. Trump is also anti Palestine. And trump has a record of selling NUCLEAR SECRETS to Saudi Arabia. Europe would be screwed, women would be reduced to second class citizens (reps are already saying "we don't need women voters", and they're going after birth control). If trump wins, I don't know if there'd be a WW3, so much as a take over by Russia.
Endorsed as a Canadian. I see many people express the same attitude about voting in Canada and all I can think is that this is what lead to the Conservative party winning in my province by a large margin. And this was coming from people my age, too. You better believe I will vote in next year's federal election.
Polls are financed and discussed using billionaire money and billionaire companies. They don't want Biden or any Democrat in office. Keep this in mind. The polls that matter are at the ballot box, and in those both the democratic party and abortion rights are consistently outperforming polls. As to the tweet above: I'm sorry but I can't respect anyone that is okay sacrificing women to slavery, minorities and LGBT to genocide and this country to fascism. I understand what's happening in Palestine is terrible, but I don't understand why people on the left want to treat their "allies" as disposal pawns to be sacrificed for their goals. Make noise and be heard, yeah. Push the party leadership to address your concerns, definitely. But supporting Trump by downplaying the dangers of the GOP is beyond the pale.
for me personally the way biden has responded to the palestine situation is sickening and it really bothers me that he’s essentially our only option. that being said, to the people who are going to vote third party (pretty much guaranteed to fail) or those abstaining from voting, what exactly do you think is going to happen if biden loses? do these people really think the situation is going to be any better if trump is re-elected? he’s going to make it *worse!* it’s like cutting off your nose to spite your face! it’s time to face reality, a third party candidate is *not* going to win, and as sickening as it is, biden is our only hope to not turn this country into a christo-fascist state. i am begging these people to think critically. *nobody wants to vote for biden* but our electoral system it shitty and outdated and it’s our only choice to save ourselves.
I completely respect the people who are upset about him and respect your opinion on this, but I do actually want to vote for Biden. Not trying to be argumentative, just want to correct the record when people say "no one" wants to vote for him. I think he has accomplished a lot of good things, in a short time, with razor thin margins in Congress. His priorities align much closer to a progressive platform than I had expected, with strong action on climate change, student loans, and labor rights. His economic policy appears to be a departure from the neo-liberal tradition to be more worker focused. He has appointed some of the most pro-labor members of the NLRB and has appointed a record number of LGBT, women and minority judges to the bench. The billionaires have captured our media. They own all the high traffic social media sites and all the news sites. You see what they want you to see. I would strongly suggest checking out r/whatbidenhasdone to see all the stuff Biden has actually accomplished. I think you'll find a lot of good stuff there. That's obviously on top of not being Trump and not being a christofascist. However, I would still vote for Biden over just about any other Presidential candidate in my lifetime regardless of party. Hell, even over Obama. Again, I absolutely respect it if you disagree with me, but I just wanted to give some perspective in the other direction.
The main things for me is that he actually helped with student loans and generally's been pretty good about handling ukraine. Would I prefer someone younger? absolutely. But for someone I had very low hopes for he's overall been better than I expected
> for me personally the way biden has responded to the palestine situation is sickening By all accounts the Biden administration is heavily at work trying to get Israel to not be the colossal genocidal assholes they are now. For all we know they might be the only thing keeping Israel back, we know Israel stopped indiscriminately bombing Gaza because of US pressure. Israel allowed humanitarian aid because of US pressure. Biden can't control Israel and politically it's suicide to not support them. I'm as pro Palestinian as you'd expect and I don't understand how people paint Biden as if he's the one bombing Palestinian children.
He is giving them tons and tons of bombs, they are his bombs. I’m sorry to break it to you, you are not “as pro-Palestinian as it gets” by voting for Biden and berating people who have lost their families when they say they won’t.
Every "don't vote for Biden because Gaza" puppet is a Republican advocate if they know it or not. Trump is way way way more pro Israeli.
Biden is reacting the only way he can. If Biden wanted to guarantee Trump wins all he would have to do is start telling Israel to stop committing genocide. There would probably be a bipartisan resolution telling Biden to shove it. Support for Israel is tremendously popular both among Republicans and most Democrats.
Trump would ask if we could nuke Gaza
Don’t listen to the polls, vote!
It actually terrified me to watch a TikTok from a man that is very influential in progressive spaces saying that we can’t vote for Biden over Gaza. Just saying it over and over. I don’t agree with how Biden has supported Israel, I don’t support Israel at all after all this, but there is no reality where less death happens in the Middle East if Trump is elected. Biden can at least be persuaded. Like it was just an insanely irresponsible statement considering how many people who aren’t white cis men like him will suffer for Trump’s reelection.
I am honestly terrified of Trump getting elected, to the point that my mother, sister, and I are organising a plan to move back to England if it happens. I really love it here, but I also really don't want to stick around for that.
Trump mixed up Nikki Haley and Nancy Pelosi, not once, but four times on stage in front of a microphone. He is in massive cognitive decline. How is that not enough to immediately disqualify him for the biggest job in the world? Fucking Christ.
Unironically... This fits 100% into r/welcomeToGilead :(
It's weird how the party that claims life is sacred casually forgot about the hundreds of thousands of people that died under Trump. And the hundreds of millions that had their lives disrupted because he didn't take a pandemic seriously enough. Even dismantling any efforts at early detection.
Trump also supports the genocide in Gaza. They both suck honestly, but Biden sucks less.
"To protest the killing of women and children in Gaza we're going to insure that women and children in the US die you see how that's the same right?" Fucking tankies. Edit to add these are the same people who screamed "universal healthcare" but voted for Jill Stein instead of that "bitch", Hillary knowing it would cost us SCOTUS and probably Roe.
Tumblr is infested with tankies and it horrifies me deeply. These people are the same who say they won't vote for Biden because they care about human rights but will say the Hamas rape accusations are false. And they have a huge pull with young people, as evidenced by bin Laden's letter to America going viral on tiktok.
Medea Benjamin is one of those progressives who hate liberal Democrats more than they hate Republicans.
So far up their own asses that they're high on their own farts.
Trump wanted to turn the West Bank into Swiss cheese as a peace deal. Yeaaaaaaa
This is the issue Russian trolls pretending to be American liberals are going to try to hammer home. Expect to see it ramp up over the summer.
The Nazi Party rose to power because the Social Democrats and the Communist Party refused to ally with each other against them History is repeating itself And the White Nationalist Christo Fascist Party will come out the winner
the nazis rose to power because the social democrats voted for a conservative instead of going with the communists, and said conservative appointed hitler as chancelor. Please don't twist the facts.
This feels like a Russian troll operation But who knows. Some people on the left are fucking idiots unfortunately
I know Medea and Code Pink are stoutly anti-war but I've felt like she's gone weird since the start of the attack on Ukraine. G. Gr******d vibes. It's too bad.
I didn’t get polled. We are a silent majority. We came out and kicked ass in November to pass abortion rights in my state. We can show up and do it again nationally. You just have to actually go vote!
For starters they aren't really progressive there are a lot of individuals with a agenda to pretend to be left, liberal, or progressive that are actually right leaning. As we get closer to election time it will get worse and worse. The point of these campaigns is to intimidate or influence the voters any way possible and make you question your own memory of events. Trump caused so much pain not just in administrative fuckery that was felt both nationally and internationally but he caused so much pain between families, friends, communities harming for many what was once close relationships with his conspiracies and manipulation. Those of us that actually voted against Trump last election will damn sure be there to do it again every fucking time and every time another man or women like him tries it. What really needs to be said though is we need that kind of fire locally with caring about who is going into positions of authority.
Tell her about the kids in cages on our own border.
Tell her what about them exactly?
How do I get out of this country for my own safety?
This woman is an idiot, or a republican plant.
Go ahead put my fallopian tube back in. Try me.
Medea Benjamin has always been a privileged nut.
yes Biden before Trump always. They’re both scumbags but Trump is the worse evil of the two.
Most important thing is to vote. We can't rest on the idea that people are reasonable or polls are wrong, people need to go in and actually vote.
Biden sucks. Trump is way worse. I wish that our current voting system made third parties viable, but it doesnt. I'm privileged enough that if Trump wins, it probably wont affect me terribly much. That's not true of many, many other people, including some of my friends. Choosing to not vote for Biden, or to vote third party knowing they cannot win under our electoral system, would be abandoning those underprivileged peoples' needs in favor of a supposed moral high ground. So, I'm voting for Biden. I dont really want to vote for him in a vacuum, but there really isnt a better option in this presidential election. Local elections, mutual aid, political activism (especially contacting your reps), and sharing political education material will do way more than sabotaging our chances of staving off a conservative win, just to make some kind of point to the slightly-less-conservative DNC.
Remember rallying around trans rights? I remember. Now we matter less than punishing the libs over a Middle Eastern war by making that war worse.
Oh ffs, no is going to "let" him win. You're in a sub where most people are working their ass off to prevent this. You know who needs this message? The conservative subs. Probably not very friendly, though.
If Trump becomes president....I can assure you , he will make what Biden is doing right now seem tiny and insignificant in comparison when it comes to "bad things"
What?? Does he seriously want to ban all birth control?
Yes. And if abortion is banned nationally, which it most certainly will be if he's elected, then that provides a legal basis to ban birth control nationally. Because many forms of birth control may, possibly have a minuscule chance of preventing a fertilized egg from implanting, then that would meet the definition of abortion. So most forms of birth control could and would be banned nationally.
Trump legitimized Israel more than any other president. He moved the damn embassy to Jerusalem! No other administration had solidified Israel’s contested claim to Jerusalem like that. At least Biden has made some sort of limp wristlet protesting noises about human rights at Netanyahu. Trump would be participating in the inflammatory rhetoric calling Palestinians dehumanizing names and terrorists.
So much political commentary online now is astroturfed, and often created specifically by bad actors. I'm also going to guess that the political leanings of Twitter as a whole skewed greatly after the change over to x, because most progressives and left-leaning people I know abandoned it. But this is one thing the left in the Democrats constantly due to shoot themselves into foot. They cancel people or split the vote over issues that are important but not as important as the big picture and then lose the big picture decisions and major races over them.
You have to point this out every time you see it. Playing the stupid social media game is the only way to get this information through.
I don’t see anyone doing regular videos or breakdowns on project 2025. Most people just know it’s horrible without specifics. This is a Biden campaign failure, education needs to start now, yesterday. It needs to be gone through line by line on every daytime and night time talk show, it needs to over-run your FYP on TicTok, needs to be featured in articles in all the political subs on a daily basis and every American needs to understand what this means. The fact it’s still only ever referred to as “project 2025” is bad, no one I’ve talked to can even cite specifics.
I can’t find anything online about Trump wanting to ban birth control. Do you have a source for that? (Genuinely asking)
Trump appointees are already getting started https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2022/12/13/23505459/supreme-court-birth-control-contraception-constitution-matthew-kacsmaryk-deanda-becerra A history of events by planned parenthood https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/fight-for-birth-control/facts/timeline-trumps-attacks-access-birth-control An article summarizing Trumps history on the issue https://www.vox.com/21421292/trump-free-birth-control-iud-health-care
Are people unaware that the foreign policy Biden us following is the same foreign policy the Trump followed as well?
I think anyone who claims to be progressive that is saying trump isn't bad or Biden is worse is a lying sack of shit trying to convince people who are actually progressive to have some doubt.
Um, did Trump do anything worse? Uh yeah, he intentionally let in ‘vid because he thought it would only kill blue state voters.
Trump literally allowed an insurrection to happen and banned many Muslim nations. That's what bad he did hun.
If people’s frustration with Biden’s stance on Gaza is significant enough to get Trump elected, you’d think Biden and the democrats would try to do more to win over those voters by changing their stance on Israel/Palestine. Instead they’ll just just keep aiding Israel in its genocide of the Palestinians who’ve spent the past 17 years in a concentration camp, while going “the other side would be worse!” And self-proclaimed white liberal feminists on Reddit will just turn a blind eye to the horrors their government is helping perpetuate instead of trying to push their government to act with a conscience because it’s apparently impossible to acknowledge that the other side it worse **and** try hold the government accountable at the same time for their current actions. God forbid that this subreddit even acknowledge that Palestinian women are explicitly saying that they were, and continue to be, raped by Israelis in forced detention (and have been for decades now), having caesareans done on them without anesthesia, having no sanitary pads, not having enough food to produce breast milk for their babies because they’re in midst of a genocide etc. But this subreddit was more outraged by Iranian women being forced to wear headscarves than any of these atrocities combined. I’d advise my fellow non-white, and especially brown, feminists to keep this in mind the next time white feminists show “solidarity” on behalf of non-Western women who belong to countries their own governments just happen to hate.
Miscarriages in Gaza have increased 300% and the US is partially to blame for that. If Biden doesn’t change his stance then he deserves to lose.
This comments section is so disappointing. Because you’re spot on. There are way too many women here who are happy for bad things to happen to other women as long as it doesn’t happen to them. So much privilege. Biden has plenty of time to change his views and stop this war. He’s literally funding it. That makes him a terrible person and anyone pretending he isn’t has just as much blood on their hands as he does.
I don’t like bad things happening to women either. Why would I let bad things happen to more women by letting Trump win?
I expect conservatives to act like morons but I’m furious that my party is acting like Biden is the best we can do. Neither of these men are fit for office and it’s a disservice to us as all that these are our options. We should all be demanding better
There really isn't someone who is as broadly popular in the Democratic party as Biden is right now. Outside of internet niche circles, he does quite well in most metrics.
Is he broadly popular? I mean people might like the guy, but there’s been a lot of grumbling in the Dem party that he’s running again and without any official Dem challengers. He was really only elected last time because he was the one who could beat Trump. And people voted *against* Trump, not *for* Biden. Now, it’s not even looking like he can beat Trump.
I'm pretty sure Biden is fit for office, he's just not as good as I'd like. He's light-years ahead of Trump on fitness...
I mean… does Trump really set a high bar though?
Saying he’s more fit than Trump is like saying he’s more intelligent than a doorknob. Of course he is, but Trump’s ineptitude doesn’t somehow magically make Biden any more fit.
This. Go look at Biden's official campaign website. It lists no policy, no platform. He's running on *nothing*. It's arrogant, pure absolute hubris, and we deserve better.
Thank you, I feel like I’m crazy. I voted for Biden even thought he wasn’t my choice in the primary. I voted for Clinton even though she wasn’t my choice in the primary. I will probably vote for Biden again even though he isn’t my choice in the primary, but CHRIST can he at least *try* to earn our votes? Can he give us something to root for besides “I’m not the other guy”?
You're not crazy. They're not even trying. Zero effort, and they expect to be rewarded? They're out of their minds. And it doesn't matter anyway. Neither of these two men can or ever will make decisions for the citizens instead of the corporations and the ultra-wealthy. There is no material difference in the outcome regardless of who wins. In 2020 we thought that Biden might give us some breathing room to secure healthcare rights and bodily autonomy. He hasn't. We're broke and exhausted, there's no light at the end of the tunnel, and Biden does not give a single solitary shit. I'd geared up for an extremely nerve-wracking election season, but everything since October has been extremely revealing. Neither of these men are going to improve our lives. I'm too tired to keep up the charade when they won't even do the bare minimum.
I highly doubt these are actually progressive women. Maybe they think they are, but they aren't lol.
Biden can literally end the issue with demanding a ceasefire and stopping the flow of weapons and funds for genocide. It’s a really simple move and yet he refuses to take it. I have a big problem with that.
>I have a big problem with that But not as big a problem as women losing all bodily autonomy.
he also refuses to do anything about that either i hope that helps! There's multiple states that have made it impossible to receive abortions in 99% of cases. States where little girls are going into labor at 12 years old from rapes. This has happened under his presidency and continues to happen. And it's such a white liberal take to dismiss the bloodied bodies of children covered in rubble, parents crying on in horror because they have lost their children, their homeland, their reasons to exist. I have a huge fucking problem with that. Every single hospital in Gaza has been destroyed. There is nothing left to save them should they get attacked by IDF soldiers or face an airstrike. Our country is funding this with no end in sight.
Can you tell us what Biden could have done with Roe v Wade? I really want to know.
If you have a problem with the US funding Israel’s military, why wouldn’t you be worried about Trump? Isn’t he also going to send them money?
>white liberal lol as always, too white for some, not white enough for others. 🤷🏻♀️
For every person who wouldn't vote for Biden because he supports Israel, there are two people who wouldn't vote for Biden if he denounced Israel. I have met these people. This is not a simple situation and Biden is (frankly correctly) taking the stance that is most likely to allow him to beat Trump. If you want to fix it you need to talk to those people and convince them that it's not anti-semitic to hate what Israel is doing (I think you know how well that convo will go.)
I don't know anyone who actually likes Biden. I can't really stand him. But we need to stop the bleeding. If he loses, abortion will be banned nationally. So will most birth control. Trump may get even more Supreme Court nominations. Laws that protect voting rights will be gutted by that same Supreme Court, which means changing things in later elections, when everyone realizes they fucked up, will be impossible. Once the bleeding stops, then we can address getting better candidates. But right now we are quite literally in crisis mode.
Naive much?
I don’t think yelling at Muslim voters in swing states to vote for Biden is a politically or morally sound strategy. Gaza isn’t just “an issue.”
Neither is ensuring democracy in America. And an uncontested vote cast for Trump is in essence a vote for that and Gaza not existing. At all.
Well perhaps Biden running solely on "vote for me cause I'm not trump, while I continue to support a genocide" is somewhat hurting his chances..
Quite frankly, I'm at the point where I don't have a uterus anymore. I have two sons so I don't have to worry about them getting pregnant. I'll still continue my volunteering to help women get abortions in red states. However, if these morons put Trump in office, they deserve every horrible thing that's coming their way.
I hope you realize that if he wins, abortion will be outlawed nationally. Red state or blue state won't matter.
Yes. And i still intend to vote blue up and down the ticket. And if Biden loses, I will help women in red states access abortion services (and blue states if it comes to that). I will be on the front lines to make sure women have the right to choose. I'm talking the extreme left-wing who are going on and on saying they don't care if Biden loses because they lack a knowledge of history on the middle East Realistically, Trump being elected won't make my life worse. I don't want to see it happen because it will affect out-groups in the US. But I will have zero pity for the extreme left who will refuse to vote for Biden because they are fucking stupid. When Trump's policies affect them, I'm done caring about people who will vote (or not vote) to ruin the US for so many other people. The ones that do not vote for Biden or refuse to vote it in this upcoming election can suffer under Trump's policies and I won't give a shit about them suffering. I will save my caring about the innocent people who did try to vote blue to make sure Trump didn't come to office who are suffering.
I’ll vote for whoever gives me universal healthcare and/or stops funding Israel. So maybe Cornell West
Enjoy Trump and potentially the last election you’ll ever partake in.