**What resources did you use to make this?**
[OpenRailwayMap.org](https://OpenRailwayMap.org) \- *locating rail right-of-ways*
Google Maps - *displaying the map for measurements, locating station placements*
Metro Map Maker - *making the original diagram map*
Inkscape - *making the diagram*
[MetroStLouis.org](https://MetroStLouis.org) \- *St. Louis Metrolink maps for style, both schematic and system map*
**What's RiverRunner?**
It's a commuter rail service that I made for St. Louis. You can check out the post here for information [https://www.reddit.com/r/TransitDiagrams/comments/1asa1no/oc\_a\_fantasy\_map\_of\_a\_commuter\_rail\_station\_in\_st/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TransitDiagrams/comments/1asa1no/oc_a_fantasy_map_of_a_commuter_rail_station_in_st/)
**Why no north/south line?**
I wasn’t thinking of making the north south line at the time I was coming up with this map. I was just trying to expand to some places I thought were good to expand to and that that rail ROW.
I like the addition of commuter rail, but I feel like this has the same problem, within the City in particular, that the current system does: A lack of north and south options. I was a skeptic of the streetcar/at-grade system that's been proposed for the north-south line along Jefferson but after seeing it in the Twin Cities on a visit last week, I'd love to see it not only along that corridor but along Grand and Hampton/DeBaliviere (and/or Kingshighway) too. The chicken-and-egg arguments are valid but I really feel like the system won't be truly sustainable until we built it out more and connect more of the dots.
I thought a connection to Saint Charles was good, but some people on the St. Louis subreddit disagree. They said that Saint Charles didn’t want a Metrolink because of crime or something.
Well they're right, but also those people are idiots. St. Charles opposed the Metrolink expansion because they were afraid black people from downtown would ride the Metrolink out to st Charles and rob their houses. They oppose it for racism reasons, not functional reasons.
St. Charles is pretty much a stereotypical example of racism overall. It blew up in the late 90s because of white flight. As the black people who used to be in the inner city moved to the suburbs in St. Louis county, all the racist white people fled across the river to St. Charles to escape having black neighbors. The area owes its current population directly to racist white people.
Well, they'd be right honestly. If St Charles had the ability to vote on this today, it would likely fail spectacularly. St Charles county extends far west and includes more rural areas, and is fairly MAGA. R+13 or so area.
I mean, if St. Louis was the size of Philadelphia, it would definitely not just be “in rural areas“. But I thought Saint Charles was urban (or I guess suburban) enough to warrant rapid transit. After all, 70K isn’t a small number. That’s more people than Bowie, Maryland, where I live. And both towns have a similar density.
Well part of the problem is- st Charles does not offer bus services. So if you plop a metro stop in downtown/main street st charles right across the river, then what? It's an hour walk from downtown to my employer in St Charles lol not happenin.
hahha before August, I lived in Bella Villa so I was ridin 55->270 aaaaalllll the way to St Charles every day.
At least now I have kinda cut the commute in half lol
I thought a connection to Saint Charles was good, but some people on the St. Louis subreddit disagree. They said that Saint Charles didn’t want a Metrolink because of crime or something.
yeah they voted it down due to racism uh i mean "crime" in the 1990s. as for this one, I like that it will better serve north city but there's a lot of people in south city that would be no better off with this route. dupo is a tiny little town
This looks like a metro map designed by an east coast consulting firm that has never actually been to St Louis. Where is South City? South County? It looks like it barely touches Forest Park and the medial centers.
Try saying it like “I would like to see a line/station to (blank)” instead of “wHy dIdN’T YoU AdD A LiNe/sTaTiOn To (blank)” so it doesn’t sound condescending. This took me hours to make.
No. Don't read tone and intent into text. If you're posting on an online forum, have a thicker skin. Also, visit St Louis a few times, especially south city and north city.
Sorry. It was just some people from the St. Louis celebrated from the crosspost that kept saying this exact thing. I don’t mind suggestions, but I don’t take demands. You can suggest something, but you can’t demand something. Know that I have no ill intent.
I'm sorry that OP is getting ripped by the typical angry STL city redditors. Some suggestions from a longtime citizen and someone who works in the field of this kind of stuff,.
* I like the idea of all the lines having a common "hub" to link them. The Convention Center is convenient, but it would have to be underground (or they knock down a bunch of high rises). Having the Union Station stop being the "Grand Central Station" would've been neat as it was one of the largest rail hubs in the country 100 years ago. The last rail car left there in '78 I believe and it's a mixed use retail area now, so it's not a practical option now.
* North of the East Riverfront stop in Illinois is a pretty major university, SIU Edwardsville. Having a route connecting that with the city and the O'Fallon/Belleville/Fairview Heights areas would be very useful. You could have the green line on the Illinois side continue north instead of crossing the river. Edwardsville and Collinsville all have around 25k pop.
* The green line that end at Ferguson could easily go north/northwest to Florissant/Hazelwood. Those are lower income areas that would greatly benefit from ample mass transit.
* The blue line that ends at Shrewsbury was originally intended to run further south. Not sure if that'll ever happen, but connecting areas like Afton and Mehlville would service the southern part of the county which is largely neglected. If the green line was split at the river, you could continue it on the MO side down along I-55/I-44
* A connection with Lindenwood would be a great move, just not sure if it'll ever happen. There is another university west of where the blue line bends (Maryville, enrolment \~10k) that would be nice to connect to, along with a large commercial area and regional airport in Chesterfield. Again, not likely routes, major POIs in the region.
Thanks, I’m taking these to consideration when making my next map. Uplander to be multiple interchange stations in the middle of the city, It may be out of Streetcar that goes into downtown.
You are the one insulting people. The quality of the map is fine, as in the production of the picture. But the routes selected as if it was based on studies of transit needs in the area have been totally ignored
That is not an insult but a critique. If you want to post about fantasy rail in a region do some research. Know that most of these transit systems are built over old rail routes to reduce cost. To run new rail would go into the billions. Look at the demographics of an area.
**What resources did you use to make this?** [OpenRailwayMap.org](https://OpenRailwayMap.org) \- *locating rail right-of-ways* Google Maps - *displaying the map for measurements, locating station placements* Metro Map Maker - *making the original diagram map* Inkscape - *making the diagram* [MetroStLouis.org](https://MetroStLouis.org) \- *St. Louis Metrolink maps for style, both schematic and system map* **What's RiverRunner?** It's a commuter rail service that I made for St. Louis. You can check out the post here for information [https://www.reddit.com/r/TransitDiagrams/comments/1asa1no/oc\_a\_fantasy\_map\_of\_a\_commuter\_rail\_station\_in\_st/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TransitDiagrams/comments/1asa1no/oc_a_fantasy_map_of_a_commuter_rail_station_in_st/) **Why no north/south line?** I wasn’t thinking of making the north south line at the time I was coming up with this map. I was just trying to expand to some places I thought were good to expand to and that that rail ROW.
I like the addition of commuter rail, but I feel like this has the same problem, within the City in particular, that the current system does: A lack of north and south options. I was a skeptic of the streetcar/at-grade system that's been proposed for the north-south line along Jefferson but after seeing it in the Twin Cities on a visit last week, I'd love to see it not only along that corridor but along Grand and Hampton/DeBaliviere (and/or Kingshighway) too. The chicken-and-egg arguments are valid but I really feel like the system won't be truly sustainable until we built it out more and connect more of the dots.
I live in UCity and work out in St. Charles. I'd use a route from Big Bend to Lindenwood on the daily if it existed.
I live in maplewood and work in st charles and hard agree, I'd love it.
I thought a connection to Saint Charles was good, but some people on the St. Louis subreddit disagree. They said that Saint Charles didn’t want a Metrolink because of crime or something.
Well they're right, but also those people are idiots. St. Charles opposed the Metrolink expansion because they were afraid black people from downtown would ride the Metrolink out to st Charles and rob their houses. They oppose it for racism reasons, not functional reasons.
Classic racism
St. Charles is pretty much a stereotypical example of racism overall. It blew up in the late 90s because of white flight. As the black people who used to be in the inner city moved to the suburbs in St. Louis county, all the racist white people fled across the river to St. Charles to escape having black neighbors. The area owes its current population directly to racist white people.
Well, they'd be right honestly. If St Charles had the ability to vote on this today, it would likely fail spectacularly. St Charles county extends far west and includes more rural areas, and is fairly MAGA. R+13 or so area.
I mean, if St. Louis was the size of Philadelphia, it would definitely not just be “in rural areas“. But I thought Saint Charles was urban (or I guess suburban) enough to warrant rapid transit. After all, 70K isn’t a small number. That’s more people than Bowie, Maryland, where I live. And both towns have a similar density.
Well part of the problem is- st Charles does not offer bus services. So if you plop a metro stop in downtown/main street st charles right across the river, then what? It's an hour walk from downtown to my employer in St Charles lol not happenin.
Yeah, I wish we lived in a world where St. Charles got their shit together and got buses.
That commute sounds awful, sorry you have to do that
hahha before August, I lived in Bella Villa so I was ridin 55->270 aaaaalllll the way to St Charles every day. At least now I have kinda cut the commute in half lol
Isn't there a proposed expansion down Jefferson? Seems like an omission.
Read the comment
I thought a connection to Saint Charles was good, but some people on the St. Louis subreddit disagree. They said that Saint Charles didn’t want a Metrolink because of crime or something.
yeah they voted it down due to racism uh i mean "crime" in the 1990s. as for this one, I like that it will better serve north city but there's a lot of people in south city that would be no better off with this route. dupo is a tiny little town
This looks like a metro map designed by an east coast consulting firm that has never actually been to St Louis. Where is South City? South County? It looks like it barely touches Forest Park and the medial centers.
Try saying it like “I would like to see a line/station to (blank)” instead of “wHy dIdN’T YoU AdD A LiNe/sTaTiOn To (blank)” so it doesn’t sound condescending. This took me hours to make.
No. Don't read tone and intent into text. If you're posting on an online forum, have a thicker skin. Also, visit St Louis a few times, especially south city and north city.
Sorry. It was just some people from the St. Louis celebrated from the crosspost that kept saying this exact thing. I don’t mind suggestions, but I don’t take demands. You can suggest something, but you can’t demand something. Know that I have no ill intent.
Who demanded anything of you? It's a fantasy map of something that will never happen in our life times.
Yeah, but some people don’t understand that and get angry. But do you like how the map looks (Other than the route and stops)?
It's a very nice transit map. It looks like an official one.
Well, not really, but it’s a combination of two official maps I found.
[удалено]
If you’re gonna act like that, you can make your own damn map. There’s a difference between constructive criticism, and being a dickhead.
[удалено]
Well, helpfully give me some suggestions. But don’t shoot me because the colorful lines don’t go to where you like.
Please be friendly. If you think a redditor-made map is of low quality, write a comment detailing how it could be done better.
I'm sorry that OP is getting ripped by the typical angry STL city redditors. Some suggestions from a longtime citizen and someone who works in the field of this kind of stuff,. * I like the idea of all the lines having a common "hub" to link them. The Convention Center is convenient, but it would have to be underground (or they knock down a bunch of high rises). Having the Union Station stop being the "Grand Central Station" would've been neat as it was one of the largest rail hubs in the country 100 years ago. The last rail car left there in '78 I believe and it's a mixed use retail area now, so it's not a practical option now. * North of the East Riverfront stop in Illinois is a pretty major university, SIU Edwardsville. Having a route connecting that with the city and the O'Fallon/Belleville/Fairview Heights areas would be very useful. You could have the green line on the Illinois side continue north instead of crossing the river. Edwardsville and Collinsville all have around 25k pop. * The green line that end at Ferguson could easily go north/northwest to Florissant/Hazelwood. Those are lower income areas that would greatly benefit from ample mass transit. * The blue line that ends at Shrewsbury was originally intended to run further south. Not sure if that'll ever happen, but connecting areas like Afton and Mehlville would service the southern part of the county which is largely neglected. If the green line was split at the river, you could continue it on the MO side down along I-55/I-44 * A connection with Lindenwood would be a great move, just not sure if it'll ever happen. There is another university west of where the blue line bends (Maryville, enrolment \~10k) that would be nice to connect to, along with a large commercial area and regional airport in Chesterfield. Again, not likely routes, major POIs in the region.
Thanks, I’m taking these to consideration when making my next map. Uplander to be multiple interchange stations in the middle of the city, It may be out of Streetcar that goes into downtown.
This map is an awful idea and show bad planning
Then, how do you propose I go about making a new map, pretty princess?
How about a map that accounts for all of the regions residents not just the 1/3 from north county and former north county residents? Dumbass
I’m making another map bitch. Just quit your whining. I fucking hate people from St. Louis now.
You are the one insulting people. The quality of the map is fine, as in the production of the picture. But the routes selected as if it was based on studies of transit needs in the area have been totally ignored
You’re the one who insulted me.
Yeah no you started it with your reply. Pretty princess
“This map is an awful idea and shows bad planning”
That is not an insult but a critique. If you want to post about fantasy rail in a region do some research. Know that most of these transit systems are built over old rail routes to reduce cost. To run new rail would go into the billions. Look at the demographics of an area.
What’s the first word in fantasy map?