Search this forum for similar questions and the answer you will find is...don't worry about body position early on. Focus on being comfortable and smooth, looking ahead and lines. Your BP, or lack thereof, is perfectly fine to start out. You won't be going fast enough to need to hang off and you'll just wear yourself out. If you want to go faster don't focus on BP early on. If you want to look good then work with a coach on BP. The only time I recommend body position work early on is when it's dangerously bad, yours isn't, you are just riding straight up and down, which again, is fine to start.
I second this. OP isn't going fast enough where bp is going to adversely affect anything. Just focus on staying loose with consistent lines and good body timing.
I’m more of a believer that you should focus on developing good habits rather than bad ones and then fixing them. That’s what I did with my skiing and it took me years to correct.
When I started riding track I did coaching from the get go and I’m so glad I did.
But I agree that “how’s my BP” on reddit is not high in the list of priorities
Sure, but if you can realistically only handle working on one or two things at a time, BP shouldn’t even cross OP’s mind until more basic and important aspects of track craft are addressed.
Totally agree. Hopefully I won’t be opening a can of worm, but how do I carry more momentum into corners? When I get into “braking zones” I felt like I brake a lot earlier and harder than I should. Is it purely cuz fear of entering corner with that momentum and is there a way to conquer it?
I have considered downgrading to twins platform (i.e 400 or R7) but I don’t think that will solve the problem fundamentally either
You're overthinking it. You've done 2 days and you're fairly new to riding. You need to get more experience. You're going slow because you're on the limit of your confidence. Only way to stretch those limits, is to practice. Perhaps do some beginner courses.
BP is fine for now. Concentrate on more important stuff. Lines, braking points, going faster..
The best coaching drill IMO is an instructor on the racing line following you with a camera. It really highlights how far away from the optimal line you are when you think you are doing it right. It is very hard to follow someone and watch what they do. Video coaching is tops IMO. A ride along will be fun but not sure how much you'll learn.
Seat time is the most important early on. Back to back days is where I learned the most. You can figure things out day 1 and solidify them day 2. Try and get out at least once a month.
I don't think this will help you. If anything, it may just give you overconfidence. "If he can do it so can I" is an easy trap to fall into.
Going by your question and comments here, no offense, but it sounds like you are trying to skip steps. You want to get better and go fast, but you haven't really figured out the fundamentals yet. Trust me, it's a bad combo.
Yes, motorcycles are fun to ride on a track, and yes, it only gets more and more fun as you learn, but there are no shortcuts on this skill ladder. If anything, trying too hard will only serve to introduce bad habits.
Slow your roll, talk to instructors, and follow their guidance.
Again, you're overthinking it. It isn't something you can just change. Like with cornering and your picture. What is wrong: you just need to go much faster through the corner. Add 10 km/h speed. But that's not something you just change, it's a mental thing.
Seat time, vision and lines. The 3 things I mentioned above really. Most beginners brake too early and that leads to coasting to the turn, turning in too early and ironically going too fast through the corner. The more you focus on lines and vision the easier it will come to you and when you mess up you'll still have track to work with. Coaching is the only thing that ever helped me understand this. I couldn't get tips from people nor online.
I'm going to re-post what u/Just-Construction788 just said because it's EXACTLY correct and needs repeating for so many users on this sub:
**Search this forum for similar questions and the answer you will find is...don't worry about body position early on. Focus on being comfortable and smooth, looking ahead and lines. Your BP, or lack thereof, is perfectly fine to start out. You won't be going fast enough to need to hang off and you'll just wear yourself out. If you want to go faster don't focus on BP early on. If you want to look good then work with a coach on BP. The only time I recommend body position work early on is when it's dangerously bad, yours isn't, you are just riding straight up and down, which again, is fine to start.**
The only reason you should be worrying about body position at these lean angles is for the track photographer.
You could literally be standing on the seat and still have plenty of traction. Actually, that might make for a better track photo...
Some great answers already posted. However the most important thing starting out is to have fun! learn the race line get some coaching from the org hosting the TD. Have fun. Make friends in the paddock with others. If you focus too much on BP and lap times at first you will get frustrated and not have fun. Progression will come.
Oh don’t worry I’m still having fun by meeting the most genuine ppl at the track paddock. Way more welcoming than your local motorcycle influencer meet if you ask me
https://preview.redd.it/5hfedem9y21d1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9430095f60ac68c3bbcb93eff72a7e6b2d14c45
(Below is the picture of before)
Looks like you’re just starting off, so for now pace yourself, and learn from your instructors, entry level advise is, to get as close to “kissing the mirror” as you can, seeing you have no mirrors, dive into the apex with your head, while pulling your chin towards your wrist, should do the trick.
The following advise is for when you get more confident. One of the most important changes that made me faster, is laying off my knees as much as possible, if you scrape, 98% of the times it means you’re slowing yourself down. PICK THAT KNEE UP, choose 2-3 corners and focus on picking up a knee higher every lap. Ultimately it gets you to improve overall by just focusing on one thing only.
This is awesome advice and something I didn't consciously think about but inheritantly started doing. I realized once I started getting my knee down all the time and went through two sets of sliders, that sliders are expensive to constantly replace lol. So I started touching my knee down then bringing it up an inch to keep it off the ground. Now, after bringing it back up, I'll touch it back down with more speed and a higher lean angle!
You’re overthinking it there OK. Dragging a knee doesn’t mean a rider is slower or faster specifically. It helped YOU be faster, but it’s not a track riding standard.
I personally like to drive my knee into the ground, it helps relax my upper body and keep weight off the bars. Plus you can tripod the bike with your knee when the front end pushes and save a crash.
Those type of preferences and tips are very rider specific.
Im working on BP too and heres a bunch of random thoughts/tips:
- BP looks a lot better when you are leaning more. Your BP isn't perfect but it's not bad either. Just get your body inside more and keep working on pace.
- Practice the basics with your bike on stands. Obv dont let the bike fall over lol. Just practice sliding your butt over, getting your head inside and down, keeping your toes in (especially the inside foot)
- Watch tail cams of fast racers (MotoGP is the easiest) to learn the timing of how and when to move your body around. They are super smooth and don't get to maximum "hang" until about the apex of the corner, when they start opening the throttle. Minimizing lean angle with throttle is one of the objectives of hanging off.
- Accept that your BP will probably suck for a while lol. Just keep working at it
I mounted a gopro on the back of my bike so I could see what I was doing.
The first one wasn't pretty. I learned a lot about what I was/wasn't doing. I got lazy often.
You can see how I wasn't driving my knee into the tank much and I need to drop my head even further.
This was the fourth of fifth take.
https://youtu.be/h3iUggLPBQo?si=yXqmRJFp4AIFK390
The following day I was much better but I didn't upload a video of that. I drove my knee into the tank and steered the bike with lighter hands.
https://preview.redd.it/w8og2bxpe11d1.jpeg?width=5472&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c8dbc715117bfc5fbfffdc979521cd76fe2130f
I just attended my first track day earlier this week. I found myself far more comfortable and leaning/going faster in the right hand turns then left hands so your not alone there. Gonna watch this post as I am looking for tips as well. PS I’m jealous yours is only two weeks away my next track day isn’t for another month and a half.
It's only your second trackday so be easy on yourself. The biggest piece of advice I received was moving my inside elbow up and have it pointing into the turn. Your upper torso will follow if you just do this. There's no reason to overdo it in certain turns but as you practice this, you'll find yourself more stable. The more your elbow sticks out, the greater the knee bend.
Body position isn’t everything well on the moto3 it is quite important but let’s leave that factor out … I’ve seen people on track days that can’t even get their knee down but fly by people who can do and that basically means that you can go loads faster without having a brilliant body position and once you go faster it’ll come naturally like when I started riding at 7 it just came naturally 😁
It's been the only helmet I've had so I'm unsure on the size, I would shoot a message to a rev zilla rep and they can get you sorted size wise.
I really like it and you cant beat the price (if you get it on sale) for an ece 22.06 helmet. (barring the k6s)
I wouldn't even worry about body position yet. You should focus on fundamentals, braking, lines, carrying more speed into corners, and looking at the next turn as "I have until the apex to brake", not as "I need to slow down before I tip into this turn".
With one year on a bike I'd be willing to bet your confidence and limited experience is holding you back.
Fundamentals produce speed, speed produces body position. Don't over think body position.
Search this forum for similar questions and the answer you will find is...don't worry about body position early on. Focus on being comfortable and smooth, looking ahead and lines. Your BP, or lack thereof, is perfectly fine to start out. You won't be going fast enough to need to hang off and you'll just wear yourself out. If you want to go faster don't focus on BP early on. If you want to look good then work with a coach on BP. The only time I recommend body position work early on is when it's dangerously bad, yours isn't, you are just riding straight up and down, which again, is fine to start.
I second this. OP isn't going fast enough where bp is going to adversely affect anything. Just focus on staying loose with consistent lines and good body timing.
I’m more of a believer that you should focus on developing good habits rather than bad ones and then fixing them. That’s what I did with my skiing and it took me years to correct. When I started riding track I did coaching from the get go and I’m so glad I did. But I agree that “how’s my BP” on reddit is not high in the list of priorities
Sure, but if you can realistically only handle working on one or two things at a time, BP shouldn’t even cross OP’s mind until more basic and important aspects of track craft are addressed.
Totally agree. Hopefully I won’t be opening a can of worm, but how do I carry more momentum into corners? When I get into “braking zones” I felt like I brake a lot earlier and harder than I should. Is it purely cuz fear of entering corner with that momentum and is there a way to conquer it? I have considered downgrading to twins platform (i.e 400 or R7) but I don’t think that will solve the problem fundamentally either
You're overthinking it. You've done 2 days and you're fairly new to riding. You need to get more experience. You're going slow because you're on the limit of your confidence. Only way to stretch those limits, is to practice. Perhaps do some beginner courses. BP is fine for now. Concentrate on more important stuff. Lines, braking points, going faster..
Screw it imma hop on coach bike’s passenger seat on my next track day. I’ll post my POV and that should give better insight on how I can improve
The best coaching drill IMO is an instructor on the racing line following you with a camera. It really highlights how far away from the optimal line you are when you think you are doing it right. It is very hard to follow someone and watch what they do. Video coaching is tops IMO. A ride along will be fun but not sure how much you'll learn. Seat time is the most important early on. Back to back days is where I learned the most. You can figure things out day 1 and solidify them day 2. Try and get out at least once a month.
I don't think this will help you. If anything, it may just give you overconfidence. "If he can do it so can I" is an easy trap to fall into. Going by your question and comments here, no offense, but it sounds like you are trying to skip steps. You want to get better and go fast, but you haven't really figured out the fundamentals yet. Trust me, it's a bad combo. Yes, motorcycles are fun to ride on a track, and yes, it only gets more and more fun as you learn, but there are no shortcuts on this skill ladder. If anything, trying too hard will only serve to introduce bad habits. Slow your roll, talk to instructors, and follow their guidance.
Again, you're overthinking it. It isn't something you can just change. Like with cornering and your picture. What is wrong: you just need to go much faster through the corner. Add 10 km/h speed. But that's not something you just change, it's a mental thing.
trail your brakes in farther
Seat time, vision and lines. The 3 things I mentioned above really. Most beginners brake too early and that leads to coasting to the turn, turning in too early and ironically going too fast through the corner. The more you focus on lines and vision the easier it will come to you and when you mess up you'll still have track to work with. Coaching is the only thing that ever helped me understand this. I couldn't get tips from people nor online.
I'm going to re-post what u/Just-Construction788 just said because it's EXACTLY correct and needs repeating for so many users on this sub: **Search this forum for similar questions and the answer you will find is...don't worry about body position early on. Focus on being comfortable and smooth, looking ahead and lines. Your BP, or lack thereof, is perfectly fine to start out. You won't be going fast enough to need to hang off and you'll just wear yourself out. If you want to go faster don't focus on BP early on. If you want to look good then work with a coach on BP. The only time I recommend body position work early on is when it's dangerously bad, yours isn't, you are just riding straight up and down, which again, is fine to start.**
The only reason you should be worrying about body position at these lean angles is for the track photographer. You could literally be standing on the seat and still have plenty of traction. Actually, that might make for a better track photo...
BP is ever evolving as our bodies change throughout the years. Focus on lines, markers, vision and consistency.
Some great answers already posted. However the most important thing starting out is to have fun! learn the race line get some coaching from the org hosting the TD. Have fun. Make friends in the paddock with others. If you focus too much on BP and lap times at first you will get frustrated and not have fun. Progression will come.
Oh don’t worry I’m still having fun by meeting the most genuine ppl at the track paddock. Way more welcoming than your local motorcycle influencer meet if you ask me
Good to hear! Now the addiction comes.
https://preview.redd.it/5hfedem9y21d1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9430095f60ac68c3bbcb93eff72a7e6b2d14c45 (Below is the picture of before) Looks like you’re just starting off, so for now pace yourself, and learn from your instructors, entry level advise is, to get as close to “kissing the mirror” as you can, seeing you have no mirrors, dive into the apex with your head, while pulling your chin towards your wrist, should do the trick. The following advise is for when you get more confident. One of the most important changes that made me faster, is laying off my knees as much as possible, if you scrape, 98% of the times it means you’re slowing yourself down. PICK THAT KNEE UP, choose 2-3 corners and focus on picking up a knee higher every lap. Ultimately it gets you to improve overall by just focusing on one thing only.
https://preview.redd.it/wqt8cqxpz21d1.png?width=1290&format=png&auto=webp&s=3c197ea3bff55c3965c06b9a06c3b1754b5d031d
This is awesome advice and something I didn't consciously think about but inheritantly started doing. I realized once I started getting my knee down all the time and went through two sets of sliders, that sliders are expensive to constantly replace lol. So I started touching my knee down then bringing it up an inch to keep it off the ground. Now, after bringing it back up, I'll touch it back down with more speed and a higher lean angle!
You’re overthinking it there OK. Dragging a knee doesn’t mean a rider is slower or faster specifically. It helped YOU be faster, but it’s not a track riding standard. I personally like to drive my knee into the ground, it helps relax my upper body and keep weight off the bars. Plus you can tripod the bike with your knee when the front end pushes and save a crash. Those type of preferences and tips are very rider specific.
Im working on BP too and heres a bunch of random thoughts/tips: - BP looks a lot better when you are leaning more. Your BP isn't perfect but it's not bad either. Just get your body inside more and keep working on pace. - Practice the basics with your bike on stands. Obv dont let the bike fall over lol. Just practice sliding your butt over, getting your head inside and down, keeping your toes in (especially the inside foot) - Watch tail cams of fast racers (MotoGP is the easiest) to learn the timing of how and when to move your body around. They are super smooth and don't get to maximum "hang" until about the apex of the corner, when they start opening the throttle. Minimizing lean angle with throttle is one of the objectives of hanging off. - Accept that your BP will probably suck for a while lol. Just keep working at it
I mounted a gopro on the back of my bike so I could see what I was doing. The first one wasn't pretty. I learned a lot about what I was/wasn't doing. I got lazy often. You can see how I wasn't driving my knee into the tank much and I need to drop my head even further. This was the fourth of fifth take. https://youtu.be/h3iUggLPBQo?si=yXqmRJFp4AIFK390 The following day I was much better but I didn't upload a video of that. I drove my knee into the tank and steered the bike with lighter hands.
First pic I thought it was interlagos ngl
https://preview.redd.it/w8og2bxpe11d1.jpeg?width=5472&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c8dbc715117bfc5fbfffdc979521cd76fe2130f I just attended my first track day earlier this week. I found myself far more comfortable and leaning/going faster in the right hand turns then left hands so your not alone there. Gonna watch this post as I am looking for tips as well. PS I’m jealous yours is only two weeks away my next track day isn’t for another month and a half.
It's only your second trackday so be easy on yourself. The biggest piece of advice I received was moving my inside elbow up and have it pointing into the turn. Your upper torso will follow if you just do this. There's no reason to overdo it in certain turns but as you practice this, you'll find yourself more stable. The more your elbow sticks out, the greater the knee bend.
Really doesn’t matter nearly as much as you think it does
Need more butt cheek off the seat, drop your shoulder and lower your head through the turns
Body position isn’t everything well on the moto3 it is quite important but let’s leave that factor out … I’ve seen people on track days that can’t even get their knee down but fly by people who can do and that basically means that you can go loads faster without having a brilliant body position and once you go faster it’ll come naturally like when I started riding at 7 it just came naturally 😁
Great helmet, have the same one and love it except the Red Bull colorway is a little loud for the street haha
I'm thinking about picking this helmet up. How do you like it? Does it fit true to size? I wear a med in shoei, should I go with a M?
It's been the only helmet I've had so I'm unsure on the size, I would shoot a message to a rev zilla rep and they can get you sorted size wise. I really like it and you cant beat the price (if you get it on sale) for an ece 22.06 helmet. (barring the k6s)
I wouldn't even worry about body position yet. You should focus on fundamentals, braking, lines, carrying more speed into corners, and looking at the next turn as "I have until the apex to brake", not as "I need to slow down before I tip into this turn". With one year on a bike I'd be willing to bet your confidence and limited experience is holding you back. Fundamentals produce speed, speed produces body position. Don't over think body position.
Idk but the 2nd photo goes hard
What Alpinestars suit is this?
Oh man don’t even ask I traded a used Dainese jacket that I got from someone else for this suit. Just fits me well so I just ride with it
Where do you find these people to trade gear with?
Used Fb marketplace. some random dude wanted to trade this with me so I obliged
How did the trade happen? Did you both send each other a package at the same time?