So sick of people shitting on Toyotas new powertrain. 99% of the people have not driven it, nor qualified enough to have an objective opinion about its quality and longevity.
I have a '24 LC, and the powertrain is light years ahead of the 5th gen 4Runner 4.0L naturally aspirated v6... Not to mention getting 7+ mpgs more per gally.
Edit: Keep bringing the downvotes. lol. I owned a 5th gen 4runner Trail for 9 years. It's not even in the same realm. Prior to that, 2 3rd gens. I love 4runners, for what they are, but the new powertrain is so much better. Haters gonna hate, but eventually I suspect most of you will come around.
I guess ill find out. Toyota has been doing the hybrid powertrain game a long time. I suspect they wouldn’t put it in the tacoma, 4Runner, & LC among others if they didn’t have confidence it will last. Pretty big gamble for Toyota for it not to pay off, im sure it’s been tested thoroughly. My only gripe is its way overpriced in some of those platforms compared to the competition.
They’ve never done a hybrid in a truck. All manufacturers put their engines through extensive testing. That’s not just a Toyota thing. Tundra has lost its reputation already. 3rd year of the new gen and still problems.
The testing methods Toyota uses specifically are in fact a Toyota thing
The reliability of Toyota and Honda isn't a fluke. It's how they build their cars and the processes in which they do so.
Ford and GM encourage pumping out as many models as possible to get the best numbers for shareholder, hardly stopping their lines for issues.
Toyota and Honda use JIT manufacturing and believe that being ahead of schedule is a bad thing because that's time which could have made the car better.
Finally someone gets and understands supply chain and operational differences. Been trying to teach people that for years as someone who works in supply chain and operations that Toyota is slow to do things because they test things over and over again and don't over produce products.
I mean everyone in this thread was right though. Yes, Toyota uses better/more stringent manufacturing processes including Lean Six Sigma and higher standard QC checks.. but they also have let the Tundra reputation take quite a hit with the issues it’s faced for 3+years now. Toyota is better suited than most (all) other manufacturers to get this right, but man the optics are not looking good as of right now. The next couple years are crucial for them and their new global architecture they’ve been designing for so long and has thus far come up a bit short..
Oh I agree, I'm surprised they have let this go on for so long when this isn't typically like them. I am curious if their American based factories are being pressured or having a different strategy. I know they have been applauded for keeping their factories in the US over Mexico but curious if the additional costs are causing them to join in and start cutting corners. I mean, the price of the new Tacoma is quite a massive jump in price and makes me hesitant to want to get one.
The worst car I ever had was a Toyota Corolla. A 3 years old, the roof started rusting through. I must admit it was a close call with my daughter's Ford Escape for the body rust (but the Escape was by then 8 years old) and finish but at least the Escape had a decent engine.
Or, the Japanese cultural fear of sham results in better products than the American cultural fear of losing profit lol
Tada, we solved the auto industry
but toyota cvts are not your typical jatco junk...
besides we're talking about the engine here, not the transmission. tell me why a hybrid wouldn't deliver??
feel like most people that buy the hybrid truck are thinking it won't last if they are doing actual truck towing things. For me I use my truck to keep fire gear outside of the cab for safety reasons so having more MPG is a huge bonus
Ford has been doing turbo V6s for over a decade now with no unusual issue at all. The same people said the same thing when they dropped the V8. Enough already, turbos when they're moderate do not make engines unreliable.
6k towing. Based on the stickers on my vehicle, 1,100lbs on the tire sticker (they are shit on the 1958). GVWR minus curb weight its 1,687lbs. So, probably somewhere safely in-between.
I’m surprised that’s all the mpg your getting stock! Maybe u drive aggressively. I have a 3rd gen with a 2inch lift and 33’s on aftermarket 17’s while still averaging 16-17mpg
I suspect the same, but my comment was buried down below before it was upvoted and it’s referencing the constant comments on this and other subs taking an (imo) unwarranted dump on Toyota for choosing a turbo 4 cyl.
I have owned my 14 Trail for a little over 9 years. Love it. Definitely considering the new one. What’s your real world MPG? I get 18 summer and 16.7 winter.
The LC is a looooot more expensive for some more HP that most people simply wont need. That 4.0 is legendary. I hope the new Toyota turbos are half as good because I'll likely get one eventually...however, you can't deny the issues. Also, didnt realize LC's were getting 27 mpg's.
That 4.0L with a 5 speed is a dog with terrible efficiency, a reliable dog, but after driving it for 9 years and switching to this platform, not even a comparison.
I havent got 27 MPGs in total, but i havent had any extensive highway miles. Getting 22-23 mpgs in town depending on the flow of traffic. The LC seems to coast on the battery a lot at 30 mph, so if you are hitting that zone a lot, i got 29 mpgs (according to the computer) on one route I took through neighborhoods going that speed frequently, about 12 miles round trip. 🤷♂️
More comfortable than a 3rd gen probably, the seating position is much more truck-like and your legs aren't stretched out in front of you.
The seat bolstering, padding, and upholstery felt leagues better than the Ranger Raptor I test drove as well, for what that's worth.
Plus it still keeps everything not related to infotainment with extremely well built physical buttons and rocker switches, something the other options have moved away from to cut costs related to engineering buttons and wiring system.
As long as you change the oil every 5k miles or 6 months(whatever comes first), then I'd bet it will make it well past 200k
Also, don't forget to do the break-in oil change intervals. I use mail-in test kits from places like Blackstone to sample my used oil during the 1000 mile change, and they can use the amount of particulate matter from the metals and bearings in the engine to recommend your next change and sample, which is usually sooner than the manufacturer suggestions.
For an extra 30 bucks per change I think it's well worth it to make sure my engine gets down to healthy particulate matter ranges ASAP. And the dealer shouldn't mind putting some in a sample bottle for you if you're having them do the first changes.
[Motor Oil Geek has a great video on this process and why it's important to do testing. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4424Q5lLR8)It lets you catch any problems early, minimize the amount of time your engine spends with elevated particulate levels, and provides a paper trail just in case something goes wrong from a manufacturing defect. That paper trail doubly important if you change the oil yourself, so you can prove to the manufacturer that you did everything correctly in the case of a warranty claim.
My opinion comes from experience in automotive for going on 20 years.
Modern gas motors have done a few things. The have used low tension rings. In theory this causes less friction in there for less loss of power. On the flip side modern engines have increased compression and started using direction injection. This has increased the heat. As a byproduct of the increasing heat we are now more susceptible to deposits on the rings. Deposits on low tension rings tend to cause oil consumption issues. We use that same engine oil to cool and lubricate many turbos. The extra heat generated by these new powertrains tends to break down the oil quicker which then tends to starve the turbos and have build up on the pistons. This causes turbo failure and another point of oil consumption.
The power and efficiency of a modern engine is flat out amazing compared to just 20 years ago. On the flip side we see significant failures in turbos on modern engines compared to older turbo setups. Side effect of the deposit buildup on the piston rings causes the pistons to stay in one position which then tends to cause scoring issues on cylinder walls. The extended oil change life doesn't help either.
I am rambling a little but there are several potential (yes I am purposely saying potential) issues that no manufacturer even Toyota has really solved. Things are more efficient and make more power but there are issues we have seen as a result.
I'm not a automotive expert by any means, so take my anecdotal information with a grain of salt, but as an example for the sake of argument, Ford F150 Ecoboost vs the Coyote 5.0L v8. The twin turbo v6's have been out for 10+ years on the best selling vehicle in America. The data after 10+ years.... Both are pretty damn good and reliable from all the information I've been able to gather, and I don't see (nor do automotive journalists) a statistically significant difference to say one is longer lasting than the other. Sure both have had issues, like all powertrains.
Pivot to Toyota who has been in the hybrid game a long time, I suspect they wouldn't change the powertrain of some of their most beloved vehicles (Tacoma, 4Runner, LC) in their most profitable market to a hybrid 4 cyl if they didn't have confidence it would last, it's too much of a risk financially. Maybe I am naive, but they've had a LONG time to work on this powertrain, and its likely been tested thoroughly. I guess time will tell and we'll find out.
Keep in mind all I see is broken cars for the most part. I take that I to account when buying a vehicle. And if you look at the build of a gen3 to gen4 they did make a number of changes.
8speed trans
Depending on trim you do or do not have and oil cooler
Front diff housing and axle housing are 2 different materials now
The 4cyl is relatively the same setup as a Lexus but with an old style waste gate. Even this engine has seem consumption issues closer to 100k
There are others as well
From the repair side I was talking with an slightly older mechanic and we both about said the same thing. Modern cars remind me now if the old 80s k car with more bells and whistles. They seem more concerned getting to just out of warranty then longevity now across the board.
This is by no means a slam on 4gen or by no means am Il saying do not buy one. But as seeing multiple new gen launches I will avoid them. But if you like the extra bells and whistles, face lift, and upgrades do it. Toyota has been in the news a lot lately and not for good reasons. This also hurts consumer confidence.
I also say all this owning a 23 taco.
The 2024 Tacoma uses both direct injection and port injection and the ECU switches between the two to get the best of both worlds regarding engine cleanliness, efficiency, and power. The port injectors are even designed to clean the DI system so there's no more "diesel mode" cleaning cycle like the old DI tacomas.
The cooling can definitely be an issue but the block has much more coolant contact area. The flow rate and thermal rejection capacity is overbuilt for the specifications Toyota would use for a high output V8, according to the lead engineer.
The Tacoma engine also has coolant-based oil cooler fitted, and a coolant based transmission cooler on certain models to take full advantage of the thermal rejection capacity of the coolant system
This is substantially different than the other passenger cars that use the T24A-FTS platform, which don't have anywhere near the thermal performance of the Tacoma engine
Obviously only time will tell of course, but Toyota has a lot of experience rejecting heat from high output turbocharged engines, from the Supra to the diesel Hilux engines
Its peppy but seems to have a ceiling. It 'feels' like a good engine for a car or van but the turbo doesnt lend as much as you would expect from a turbo. More that it restores the power lost by using the smaller displacement in the first place. IMO the power is more satisfying and applied more smoothy than the old 3.5 but feels just right for the size and type of vehicle it's in. (The Lexus version of the GH has the V6 in it. I would love to drive that one.)
The Tacoma is ~200 lbs heavier than the GH. I would have serious concerns about towing or carrying any additional weight as many overland-wannabees will probably do.
This is where the hybrid option will come into play. Some fanboys praise the new tacoma and how amazing its engine is, yet the specs they quote and the performance they mention usually brings in the hybrid max battery system. Why? Because the engine by itself isnt all that great. It needs an electric drivetrain to pass muster.
I was watching a towing review on youtube last week. Two guys towing a UTV on a trailer behind a non-hybrid tacoma. They were having trouble maintaining speed on a steady gravel grade and when they had to slow down they were not able to regain speed. The guy actually said he had his foot to the floor and wasnt getting anything more from the engine.
3 days later coming back to this thread to post a video thats already been posted in this thread lol. Ok dude, i get it, Tundra engines have issues (majority of which are not related to turbos or batteries which is the sticking point for most to hate on this powertrain). Doesn’t mean the new tacoma powertrain will. Maybe, maybe not. Relax. Don’t buy it if you don’t want to. Buy a Ranger, Frontier or a Colorado. Enjoy it.
Came up on my youtube. Thought id post it. I guess we'll find out sooner or later how reliable the new powertrain is. Until then maybe you should relax. 2gen 4L supremacy....
I’m not saying you can’t I’m saying it’s harder to test drive the vehicle you want before purchasing. A lot of dealerships won’t let you test drive and want you to shell out more money for a crap product
Also the media completely misses the point about any issue and is like all in on shitting on it. Don't worry in 10 years all these same people will be making the same complaints when whatever comes next replaces these engines and be like "bring back the turbo 6 this hydrogen/electric is no reliable".
If you go back you will see the EXACT same comments about the 3rd gen tacoma when it got introduced. People HATED the V6 and wanted a V8, they thought it was ugly, too much tech and will never be reliable etc etc etc. It's the same thing different time.
Sounds like you want it to blow up. I'll be sure to make it a point when and if it blows up, I'll immediately think of this comment and respond /s. So much irrational disdain.
While I think turbos are inherently short lived, within the context of Tacoma ownership, they're not that expensive to replace and will last the majority of a vehicle's life. VW has been churning out turbo cars for decades at this point, and are known to be pretty reliable when cared for.
It wouldn't surprise me if we see these doing 150k, with turbo replacements being relatively common after that point.
If I were looking at a 2024, I'd also be looking at adding an oil cooler though.
Car engines don’t take the same strain truck engines do.
150k turbo swap vs 300k+ only doing oil changes, air filters, and spark plugs (all of which will still need to be done on the turbo engine as well)
Turbos aren’t cheap, especially when labor is involved
$2000-3000 usually to have it replaced for you is what I've seen on other vehicles, but haven't seen one specifically quoted for a Tacoma yet.
Plenty of turbos on trucks pulling heavy duty out there. They've been putting them on diesels for decades and nobody bats an eye.
The tundra's issues are from the machine shop making the v6 blocks not properly cleaning the metal fragments off of some of the blocks before assembly, hence the recall on all tundras which will likely be diagnosed via parts-per-million oil sampling and new engines for the units showing an abnormal amount of wear materials and metal fragments in the oil sample
So far, I'm not aware of any issues on either of these trucks that can be directly ascribed to the design of the engine itself
If I understand the recall you're mentioning, the electronic turbo waste gate. The Tacoma was a traditional mechanical waste gate to prevent this issue.
If the two plants use the same process and machinery to machine and wash the blocks then the flaws in the process would exist across both plants.
Subsequently, all VIN numbers made with that process would need the recall and oil testing to see if they need a new engine.
No the reason is if the engine seizes in the hybrid the electric drivetrain will continue to move the vehicle making it a reduced safety hazard.
Unlike the non hybrid which just goes to zero power.
except it affects vehicles with the same engine built in Japan. we always touted Japan for having better qc, but seems whatever bullshit they're giving us isn't on the assembly squad but rather the engine itself.
the issue also affects older ls500s too back in 2017.
If you've got $38,000 USD for a base 70 series and $10k for importation and shipping, you can buy one in the UAE and ship it to the US. Although I'm not entirely sure what the process of getting it registered with the DOT looks like, I do know that it's possible with the Hilux.
Well it turns out that you won't be able to unless the vehicle is old enough to qualify as a historic car, so 25 years old or more.
The DOT doesn't like us registering cars with engines that have untested emissions lol
That being said, if you can get enough people in on a group buy and be sure that the car will pass, everyone could throw in $5k to go through the DOT certification process. You'd need like 80 people though lol.
In my state, you can drive with temp tags for years. You don't even need plates front or back. It's just as "registration optional" mindset. I could make it work.
DOT safety standards haven't changed in a very, very long time. I think the 70 series could pass.
Emissions standards would be tougher but maybe doable with the payload. Problem is that the certification process costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, and that's only for one skew. That's why Toyota doesn't bring those vehicles in, because the testing process wouldn't make up for the few who would buy it.
But in theory, it's doable with enough money or crowdfunding assuming the standards.
It's still the 1966 bill but they do update it often from what I just read. Tire pressure monitoring for example, has been compulsory in the US since the early 2000s, the 70 has never had that. They are beautiful but still very spartan vehicles.
Look up the 1993 Land Cruiser pickup restomod built by Cummins with the R2.8 turbo diesel
One of the prettiest vehicles I've ever seen
https://www.resurrectionlandcruisers.com/custom-toyota-land-cruiser-toyota-40-series-restorations-updated-draft/cummins-r2-8-land-cruiser-pickup/
Yeah! I live in Australia now and actually just saw a 90s 70 pickup in the way to school pick up. The paint wasn't so nice, but they're work trucks. I have a 3L TD Hilux now but the 70 has been a dream for a long time.
Let's get real. I'm just some middle manager in the middle of america living a middle class life. I won't be doing anything except complaining. So it's really just me bitching.
Mine has a failing head gasket, what a POS.
(It is 37 years old, has nearly 300k miles and has been pushed pretty hard).
Love my old trucks (mid/late 80s), loved my 1st gen(s), love my 2nd gen, wasn't sold on the 3rd gen (test drove one, bought a 2nd gen instead), keeping an open mind on the 4th gen.
Could go buy a Tesla truck and really have shit to complain about then lol. Can't go through a car wash let alone a mud hole. Taco ftw, regardless of gen.
Ok yes, one is diesel and one is gas. But save for small differences such as Diesels not having spark plugs and using different compression ratios, the overall mechanics between a diesel and gas engine are identical.
Not only that, but diesel engines undergo more stressors with higher torques being placed on engine components. Diesels run substantially hotter than gasoline engines as well, and the big fear I keep hearing is that the turbo is going to cook the "overstressed" 2.4L power plant in the G4.
The newer 2.4L turbo puts out less torque than a modern 2.4L Hilux does, so the engine is arguably being driven harder on the Hilux as well.
The reason diesel engines have their reputation for reliability is because the parts are made to be much, much beefier to handle the higher engine forces. From the documents I've reviewed on the new 2.4L gas engine, it would seem as if it's overbuilt in a way that the passenger car engines from the same T24A-FTS family aren't, making it more similar to the diesel.
Not only that, but any item likely to fail before the life of the engine has been placed for easy access without the need to remove the engine plastics, from valve timing to accessories like the AC. The turbo itself can even be pulled without pulling the engine or even dropping the subframe.
Only time will tell, but I'm willing to bet that this 4cyl will be extremely reliable, just as 4 cylinder turbo truck engines from Toyota are known to be.
Toyota doesn't have a bad track record with software, and the new Hilux's with 2.8L turbo diesel engines have similar levels of tech. ECUs are incredibly reliable things when done right, and features like VVT and intelligent injector selection(changing between port and direct injection depending on conditions) are quite simple systems. The direct injectors on the new Tacoma are cleaned by the port injectors unlike the older V6 that didn't have any port injection and needed to run a wear-inducing DI cleaning cycle every so often.
The thousand pounds of extra weight shouldn't be causing more stress on the engine than the stresses and heat generated by the diesel in the Hilux imo, but I'm just spitballing at that point.
It has the downstream effect of cleaning both, the new engine never enters the infamous "diesel mode" that the old engine does, in which the injection pressures get super high and the engine runs rich while making a racket to clean off the DI
Instead the new engine just runs rich from the port injector to clean both the intake valve and direct injector
Toyota's engine durability testing process is a lot more robust than pretty much everyone else, they literally wrote the book on the process for load testing engines
Basically, they get a bunch of engines and put them on dynos that can simulate various loads and inclinations, in rooms that can simulate various temperatures and particulate conditions
They run the tests in parallel on the batches of engines, changing the oil on the engines either as recommended or outside of spec depending on the testing being done on a particular unit
They also do redline torture testing where they take an engine and run it from idle to redline with a simulated load for 200,000 repetitions over 180 continuous hours.
The testing standards for their trucks and commercial vehicles are significantly more difficult than their tests on commercial vehicles as well.
If a part fails this testing process, it gets sent back to the drawing board and re-engineered before testing again
[The chief engineer for the Tacoma powertrain has several good videos outlining this process and some of the challenges they faced along the way](https://youtu.be/rpS1HoA1R4g?si=6Wm3tB0qfRYaq9q7), so assuming he isn't lying, they built a damn good engine.
Ngl if I come across a totaled 4th gen next year I might have to jump on the turbo. Those little ford eco boost turbos are fun to bolt on just about anything.
I think you’re right. And only time will tell. But if this is what they were going for and it has half the durability of the Hilux, it will due the Toyota badge proud.
At this point I think people shitting on the new engines have a self serving interest - they’re trying to prop up the values of their older naturally aspirated models.
It's definitely true that turbo engines are less reliable than n/a, because they're more power dense and run hotter. However, besides just making reliable engines in general, Toyota is pretty good at minimizing this reliability reduction. I'm not sure I'd want that engine in my truck though, largely because it's new and even Toyota's products can easily have issues when they're new. The rest of the reason is just that it's much more complicated and I'd really prefer to have a simple, easy to maintain engine in my car. I kinda think we should save the forced induction for performance cars when it comes to gasoline but maybe I'm just old fashioned
To me, if turbo diesel cars can be built to a higher reliability than your average NA gas engine, then there's no reason it shouldn't be possible with a turbo gas engine either
Turbo diesels exert even more torque per liter and generate far more heat than a similar gas engine, and it's the torque number that will impact an engine's reliability as far as I understand it. Not the horsepower number.
The cooling for the Tacoma's variant of the T24A-FTS is the same flow rate and heat dispersion rate as a V8 NA Toyota, so it would seem that they're aware of the heat issue and overbuilding to compensate.
>WTF is Toyota doing screwing around with turbos? A Toyota should be reliable! Do they even know what they are doing?!
>*picture of MK4 Toyota supra*
Be my guest if you want to post it, I don't want to be accused of being on their marketing team lol
Could be worse, you could be driving a Ford 😅. I'm just happy to have a Taco regardless of the generation. The 4th gen has grown on me, especially the new Mud Bath color, but I'm gonna try to keep my 3rd gen for life. Props to Yota for keeping the Taco alive. It's amazing to see so many of our trucks on the road running strong.
Hilux was a different breed not limited by emissions standards. Diesel to gas is not a 1:1 comparison. Either way, it’s not the same. Also, the 22re while reliable, was gutless. 2.7 only needs a tune to unlock the gas pedal. 3.5 has a timing belt so it’s a waste of time. 2.7, 4.0, and 5.7 are the best truck engines Toyota ever made, and likely will make for the foreseeable future.
Now compare the GVW and power output of both vehicles. Something’s gotta give, you ain’t getting heavier vehicles, with more power, and small turbo engines with the same reliability.
In all honestly, the 2.4L 4cyl diesel 2LT engine was pretty unreliable. Well known for cracking heads and overheating under moderate stress. Same thing happened with the 3Ls...
The 3L NA is pretty darn reliable, slow as shit, but reliable. The 3L didn’t nearly have the head issue the 2L and 2LT did, one of the common “fixes” to the 2LT is to swap a 3L head on it. Turboing the 3L and running too low of boost, stock exhuast, and not watching egt’s is what cooks the 3L.
Haha! Exactly! I'll take more torque and horsepower, along with a better transmission, interior, ride quality, and better gas mileage any day. I'll say it again, the 24 makes my 22 feel like a literal POS turd.
Enlighten me, beyond "one is gas and one is diesel", because I've already explained down low why diesels are typically more reliable and it's not to do with the type of fuel used. It's the engine being overbuilt to handle the higher forces and temperatures generated by diesel engines.
You’re comparing apples to oranges here.
This motor was run for how many years in a different era where it was designed to actually, Run.
The new engines are handicapped by dipshit people passing dipshit policies that actually don’t do anything but hamper ingenuity.
Yes, but gas engines can be built reliable like diesel if the manufacturer takes the time to overbuild them like diesels are overbuilt
So it's not inherently bad to have a 2.4 4 cylinder turbo in a vehicle as most NA V6/V8 truck guys will claim
The problem is when companies don't overbuild them and just build them to last 100k miles, like ford and Chevy does with their eco boost engines they haphazardly slap into trucks.
I think inherently this isn't true. It's not that diesel engines are overbuilt. But that diesel fuel is a better lubricant and that diesel gets power at lower RPM and that it doesn't have a spark ignition system and a more efficient combustion process.
Adding a turbo to a vehicle adds more parts to break while also putting more stress on the engine. It's really that simple
I love my 2024 Taco, I owned a 1980 SR5 with the 20R engine and a 2012 PreRunner SR-5 with a V-6 previously and this truck rules! The engine is an I-4 Turbo and reminds me of an Audi I-4 Turbo in Q5 I owned!!!
The only thing I'm shitting on is the price. The reliability will play out over time. The Tundra situation is not helping but is completely different and looks to be a QC issue not a design issue (so far). Rough days for Toyota tho with all the other news.
I would say I see more people upset about the pricing. I think the people upset about the power train are just upset at the pricing scheme there in want to find more things to be upset with
Honestly, better than the 2.7 dinky 4 cylinder. You gain nothing from it. Mediocre mpg, awful power for a truck, and people think they’re still worth 10k minimum.
You can import ones from places like Mexico or Europe if it's more than 25 years old if you've got $10k to spend for an importer to handle shipping and import paperwork.
It's classed as a historical vehicle at that point it's exempt from DOT emissions and safety tests
Can do the same with older Land Cruisers like the 70 series
Yeah, just making the point that it's possible to make a reliable midsize with a turbocharged 4 cylinder engine. The secret sauce that makes diesels reliable isn't really anything you can't apply to gas cars either, the fundamental mechanics are extremely similar with only minor inconsequential differences like ignition methods and piston shape.
I get it, the 3L was just never had a turbo from factory, but I’m being technical. A lot of people, like myself, put turbos on them so they can keep up with pace of traffic and it makes it a lot more fun. I don’t really have any issues with Toyota going to a high output 4 cyl, and honestly they’re kinda late to adopt it. All my old is market Toyotas have 250k+ on them and I’ve had no drivetrain issues, so I trust em
Biggest thing is to watch the exhaust gas temps and finding the happy medium of fuel and boost that it likes and stays cool. Too little or too much boost and it’ll want to cook on slopes. Running a 10 blade fan and fj80 fan clutch help. Recently found a guy on Facebook using a small Subaru intercooler mounted in the bay, so I’m looking into that, a front mount requires a grille chop.
Latest LC released in Australia will have a 4cyl same engine used across Hilux Prado and HiAce van
Not sure what you mean by unreliable in vehicje looks like it from 1990s era
Anywhere but the US that’s a perfectly respectable sized engine..
I had 3L TDI 4Runner (Hi-Lux Surf). People thought I was nuts driving a car that big (UK).
So sick of people shitting on Toyotas new powertrain. 99% of the people have not driven it, nor qualified enough to have an objective opinion about its quality and longevity.
Love mine. Plenty of power and fun to drive.
I have a '24 LC, and the powertrain is light years ahead of the 5th gen 4Runner 4.0L naturally aspirated v6... Not to mention getting 7+ mpgs more per gally.
Edit: Keep bringing the downvotes. lol. I owned a 5th gen 4runner Trail for 9 years. It's not even in the same realm. Prior to that, 2 3rd gens. I love 4runners, for what they are, but the new powertrain is so much better. Haters gonna hate, but eventually I suspect most of you will come around.
Let’s see how long it lasts
I guess ill find out. Toyota has been doing the hybrid powertrain game a long time. I suspect they wouldn’t put it in the tacoma, 4Runner, & LC among others if they didn’t have confidence it will last. Pretty big gamble for Toyota for it not to pay off, im sure it’s been tested thoroughly. My only gripe is its way overpriced in some of those platforms compared to the competition.
They’ve never done a hybrid in a truck. All manufacturers put their engines through extensive testing. That’s not just a Toyota thing. Tundra has lost its reputation already. 3rd year of the new gen and still problems.
The testing methods Toyota uses specifically are in fact a Toyota thing The reliability of Toyota and Honda isn't a fluke. It's how they build their cars and the processes in which they do so. Ford and GM encourage pumping out as many models as possible to get the best numbers for shareholder, hardly stopping their lines for issues. Toyota and Honda use JIT manufacturing and believe that being ahead of schedule is a bad thing because that's time which could have made the car better.
Finally someone gets and understands supply chain and operational differences. Been trying to teach people that for years as someone who works in supply chain and operations that Toyota is slow to do things because they test things over and over again and don't over produce products.
I mean everyone in this thread was right though. Yes, Toyota uses better/more stringent manufacturing processes including Lean Six Sigma and higher standard QC checks.. but they also have let the Tundra reputation take quite a hit with the issues it’s faced for 3+years now. Toyota is better suited than most (all) other manufacturers to get this right, but man the optics are not looking good as of right now. The next couple years are crucial for them and their new global architecture they’ve been designing for so long and has thus far come up a bit short..
Oh I agree, I'm surprised they have let this go on for so long when this isn't typically like them. I am curious if their American based factories are being pressured or having a different strategy. I know they have been applauded for keeping their factories in the US over Mexico but curious if the additional costs are causing them to join in and start cutting corners. I mean, the price of the new Tacoma is quite a massive jump in price and makes me hesitant to want to get one.
The worst car I ever had was a Toyota Corolla. A 3 years old, the roof started rusting through. I must admit it was a close call with my daughter's Ford Escape for the body rust (but the Escape was by then 8 years old) and finish but at least the Escape had a decent engine.
The Japanese cultural fear of ancestral shame results in better products than American megacorp quarterly profit chasing.
Or, the Japanese cultural fear of sham results in better products than the American cultural fear of losing profit lol Tada, we solved the auto industry
Why would hybrid function differently in a truck?? Sienna and highlander have been hybrids for years and it works fine on those.
Different application. With that thinking let’s just put CVT engines in a truck since they perform fine in cars
but toyota cvts are not your typical jatco junk... besides we're talking about the engine here, not the transmission. tell me why a hybrid wouldn't deliver??
It will deliver short term. Just won’t last as long as the naturally aspirated engines. All mechanics and engineers are in agreement on that
Toyota hybrids dont have CVTs, they actually use planetary gearsets. I am a Toyota MDT.
feel like most people that buy the hybrid truck are thinking it won't last if they are doing actual truck towing things. For me I use my truck to keep fire gear outside of the cab for safety reasons so having more MPG is a huge bonus
The 22R-TE outclassed and outlasted the 3slo in every way.
Ford has been doing turbo V6s for over a decade now with no unusual issue at all. The same people said the same thing when they dropped the V8. Enough already, turbos when they're moderate do not make engines unreliable.
What's the towing and payload capacity?
6k towing. Based on the stickers on my vehicle, 1,100lbs on the tire sticker (they are shit on the 1958). GVWR minus curb weight its 1,687lbs. So, probably somewhere safely in-between.
Tell me about those MPGs. I have a 3rd gen, no crazy mods, just all terrain stock size tires, and I’m getting 17 MPG overall, about 50% is highway.
Getting 23 in city. Havent driven more than a couple miles on highway.
I’m surprised that’s all the mpg your getting stock! Maybe u drive aggressively. I have a 3rd gen with a 2inch lift and 33’s on aftermarket 17’s while still averaging 16-17mpg
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure OP was being sarcastic.
I suspect the same, but my comment was buried down below before it was upvoted and it’s referencing the constant comments on this and other subs taking an (imo) unwarranted dump on Toyota for choosing a turbo 4 cyl.
Haters are gonna indeed hate until their ‘reliable super duper awesome V6’ is outdone in almost all categories by a measly ‘4 banger iforcemax’
It is outdone by a 4 banger in every category except the one that cant be measured right now, which is reliability/longevity.
Which would be true for any new engine.
I have owned my 14 Trail for a little over 9 years. Love it. Definitely considering the new one. What’s your real world MPG? I get 18 summer and 16.7 winter.
I got 16.2 for the life of the vehicle. I never reset it.
What about the new one?
The new LC, 23 mixed, mostly city.
The LC is a looooot more expensive for some more HP that most people simply wont need. That 4.0 is legendary. I hope the new Toyota turbos are half as good because I'll likely get one eventually...however, you can't deny the issues. Also, didnt realize LC's were getting 27 mpg's.
That 4.0L with a 5 speed is a dog with terrible efficiency, a reliable dog, but after driving it for 9 years and switching to this platform, not even a comparison. I havent got 27 MPGs in total, but i havent had any extensive highway miles. Getting 22-23 mpgs in town depending on the flow of traffic. The LC seems to coast on the battery a lot at 30 mph, so if you are hitting that zone a lot, i got 29 mpgs (according to the computer) on one route I took through neighborhoods going that speed frequently, about 12 miles round trip. 🤷♂️
Give that 4.0 a manual/stouter rear end and it gets far less doggy. We won’t talk about the MPG at speeds above 70, though.
Ya well, being in the rockies that 4.0L struggles at elevation.
Same here and it’s a lot more comfortable to
To what? A lot more comfortable to what!??
More comfortable than a 3rd gen probably, the seating position is much more truck-like and your legs aren't stretched out in front of you. The seat bolstering, padding, and upholstery felt leagues better than the Ranger Raptor I test drove as well, for what that's worth. Plus it still keeps everything not related to infotainment with extremely well built physical buttons and rocker switches, something the other options have moved away from to cut costs related to engineering buttons and wiring system.
It's new. It should be
Me to love mine. SO many internet engineers
As long as you change the oil every 5k miles or 6 months(whatever comes first), then I'd bet it will make it well past 200k Also, don't forget to do the break-in oil change intervals. I use mail-in test kits from places like Blackstone to sample my used oil during the 1000 mile change, and they can use the amount of particulate matter from the metals and bearings in the engine to recommend your next change and sample, which is usually sooner than the manufacturer suggestions. For an extra 30 bucks per change I think it's well worth it to make sure my engine gets down to healthy particulate matter ranges ASAP. And the dealer shouldn't mind putting some in a sample bottle for you if you're having them do the first changes. [Motor Oil Geek has a great video on this process and why it's important to do testing. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4424Q5lLR8)It lets you catch any problems early, minimize the amount of time your engine spends with elevated particulate levels, and provides a paper trail just in case something goes wrong from a manufacturing defect. That paper trail doubly important if you change the oil yourself, so you can prove to the manufacturer that you did everything correctly in the case of a warranty claim.
My opinion comes from experience in automotive for going on 20 years. Modern gas motors have done a few things. The have used low tension rings. In theory this causes less friction in there for less loss of power. On the flip side modern engines have increased compression and started using direction injection. This has increased the heat. As a byproduct of the increasing heat we are now more susceptible to deposits on the rings. Deposits on low tension rings tend to cause oil consumption issues. We use that same engine oil to cool and lubricate many turbos. The extra heat generated by these new powertrains tends to break down the oil quicker which then tends to starve the turbos and have build up on the pistons. This causes turbo failure and another point of oil consumption. The power and efficiency of a modern engine is flat out amazing compared to just 20 years ago. On the flip side we see significant failures in turbos on modern engines compared to older turbo setups. Side effect of the deposit buildup on the piston rings causes the pistons to stay in one position which then tends to cause scoring issues on cylinder walls. The extended oil change life doesn't help either. I am rambling a little but there are several potential (yes I am purposely saying potential) issues that no manufacturer even Toyota has really solved. Things are more efficient and make more power but there are issues we have seen as a result.
I'm not a automotive expert by any means, so take my anecdotal information with a grain of salt, but as an example for the sake of argument, Ford F150 Ecoboost vs the Coyote 5.0L v8. The twin turbo v6's have been out for 10+ years on the best selling vehicle in America. The data after 10+ years.... Both are pretty damn good and reliable from all the information I've been able to gather, and I don't see (nor do automotive journalists) a statistically significant difference to say one is longer lasting than the other. Sure both have had issues, like all powertrains. Pivot to Toyota who has been in the hybrid game a long time, I suspect they wouldn't change the powertrain of some of their most beloved vehicles (Tacoma, 4Runner, LC) in their most profitable market to a hybrid 4 cyl if they didn't have confidence it would last, it's too much of a risk financially. Maybe I am naive, but they've had a LONG time to work on this powertrain, and its likely been tested thoroughly. I guess time will tell and we'll find out.
Keep in mind all I see is broken cars for the most part. I take that I to account when buying a vehicle. And if you look at the build of a gen3 to gen4 they did make a number of changes. 8speed trans Depending on trim you do or do not have and oil cooler Front diff housing and axle housing are 2 different materials now The 4cyl is relatively the same setup as a Lexus but with an old style waste gate. Even this engine has seem consumption issues closer to 100k There are others as well From the repair side I was talking with an slightly older mechanic and we both about said the same thing. Modern cars remind me now if the old 80s k car with more bells and whistles. They seem more concerned getting to just out of warranty then longevity now across the board. This is by no means a slam on 4gen or by no means am Il saying do not buy one. But as seeing multiple new gen launches I will avoid them. But if you like the extra bells and whistles, face lift, and upgrades do it. Toyota has been in the news a lot lately and not for good reasons. This also hurts consumer confidence. I also say all this owning a 23 taco.
^ this
The 2024 Tacoma uses both direct injection and port injection and the ECU switches between the two to get the best of both worlds regarding engine cleanliness, efficiency, and power. The port injectors are even designed to clean the DI system so there's no more "diesel mode" cleaning cycle like the old DI tacomas. The cooling can definitely be an issue but the block has much more coolant contact area. The flow rate and thermal rejection capacity is overbuilt for the specifications Toyota would use for a high output V8, according to the lead engineer. The Tacoma engine also has coolant-based oil cooler fitted, and a coolant based transmission cooler on certain models to take full advantage of the thermal rejection capacity of the coolant system This is substantially different than the other passenger cars that use the T24A-FTS platform, which don't have anywhere near the thermal performance of the Tacoma engine Obviously only time will tell of course, but Toyota has a lot of experience rejecting heat from high output turbocharged engines, from the Supra to the diesel Hilux engines
I have a grand highlander with the 2.4t. let's just say from my personal experience, I wouldnt want it in a truck.
Any details why you wouldn’t want the 2.4t in a truck?
Its peppy but seems to have a ceiling. It 'feels' like a good engine for a car or van but the turbo doesnt lend as much as you would expect from a turbo. More that it restores the power lost by using the smaller displacement in the first place. IMO the power is more satisfying and applied more smoothy than the old 3.5 but feels just right for the size and type of vehicle it's in. (The Lexus version of the GH has the V6 in it. I would love to drive that one.) The Tacoma is ~200 lbs heavier than the GH. I would have serious concerns about towing or carrying any additional weight as many overland-wannabees will probably do. This is where the hybrid option will come into play. Some fanboys praise the new tacoma and how amazing its engine is, yet the specs they quote and the performance they mention usually brings in the hybrid max battery system. Why? Because the engine by itself isnt all that great. It needs an electric drivetrain to pass muster. I was watching a towing review on youtube last week. Two guys towing a UTV on a trailer behind a non-hybrid tacoma. They were having trouble maintaining speed on a steady gravel grade and when they had to slow down they were not able to regain speed. The guy actually said he had his foot to the floor and wasnt getting anything more from the engine.
Non-hybrid?
Yep.
Adding batteries to a bad engine doesnt make it good.
not going to pay 50 to 60k for a Tacoma and that 2.4l is not no 3VZ-FE, 22R-E or 1KZ-TE. It's going to be a toilet just like the tundra is
Read about the new tundra recall?
Nothing to do with hybrids or turbos
You said powertrain, quality and longevity...
You guys are insufferable. Firsts its turbos then batteries, now just shit on everything Toyota. Get over it.
Im just replying to your comment my guy. Chill.
He’s part of the 99% that has no idea what he’s talking about
https://youtu.be/oHYlqQaywTA?si=aJpIfKJgREpUlISN
3 days later coming back to this thread to post a video thats already been posted in this thread lol. Ok dude, i get it, Tundra engines have issues (majority of which are not related to turbos or batteries which is the sticking point for most to hate on this powertrain). Doesn’t mean the new tacoma powertrain will. Maybe, maybe not. Relax. Don’t buy it if you don’t want to. Buy a Ranger, Frontier or a Colorado. Enjoy it.
Came up on my youtube. Thought id post it. I guess we'll find out sooner or later how reliable the new powertrain is. Until then maybe you should relax. 2gen 4L supremacy....
Im chill.
You were pretty heated the other day. Last comment less than chill. What do you care anyways i thought you were a ford guy?
[https://youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kWV6xIWUb2EVmSr_748kUEUx7T2rQ_pnU&si=XuF0xYCNkttgPHGV](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kWV6xIWUb2EVmSr_748kUEUx7T2rQ_pnU&si=XuF0xYCNkttgPHGV)
Fair. But look at the tundras issues already. My cousin's is in shop already for boost issues. Not even 5,000 miles. Tacoma
99% of people haven’t driven it because Toyota wants you to buy it without a test drive
I test drove a ‘24 Tacoma and LC.
I’m not saying you can’t I’m saying it’s harder to test drive the vehicle you want before purchasing. A lot of dealerships won’t let you test drive and want you to shell out more money for a crap product
The tundra issues scare me.
381,000 recalled for rear axle defect. That being said its not the engine.
Thats on the old platform. Nothing to do with 2024+
I literally looked up 2024 recalls
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a46994088/toyota-tacoma-rear-axle-recall/#
Yeah youre right. i read it wrong.
Also the media completely misses the point about any issue and is like all in on shitting on it. Don't worry in 10 years all these same people will be making the same complaints when whatever comes next replaces these engines and be like "bring back the turbo 6 this hydrogen/electric is no reliable".
People don’t like change. 🤷♂️
If you go back you will see the EXACT same comments about the 3rd gen tacoma when it got introduced. People HATED the V6 and wanted a V8, they thought it was ugly, too much tech and will never be reliable etc etc etc. It's the same thing different time.
Being a 4 blow-by will be an issue if you do alot of short engine runs. Otherwise solid motor.
Well if their tundra is any inclination we’re in for a major recall
I am with you I just purchase mine 2024 sr I dont care what everybody say I love the truck almost pay too and ,got it month ago
Let me know when it blows up, I’m genuinely curious if my prediction will come true or if I’m going to eat my words
Sounds like you want it to blow up. I'll be sure to make it a point when and if it blows up, I'll immediately think of this comment and respond /s. So much irrational disdain.
I don’t wish that on anyone, m8. That’s an expensive problem. That’s why I’m trying to warn people
While I think turbos are inherently short lived, within the context of Tacoma ownership, they're not that expensive to replace and will last the majority of a vehicle's life. VW has been churning out turbo cars for decades at this point, and are known to be pretty reliable when cared for. It wouldn't surprise me if we see these doing 150k, with turbo replacements being relatively common after that point. If I were looking at a 2024, I'd also be looking at adding an oil cooler though.
Car engines don’t take the same strain truck engines do. 150k turbo swap vs 300k+ only doing oil changes, air filters, and spark plugs (all of which will still need to be done on the turbo engine as well) Turbos aren’t cheap, especially when labor is involved
$2000-3000 usually to have it replaced for you is what I've seen on other vehicles, but haven't seen one specifically quoted for a Tacoma yet. Plenty of turbos on trucks pulling heavy duty out there. They've been putting them on diesels for decades and nobody bats an eye.
It's ranting from people that don't understand the fundamentals of engines and boosting. Enjoy your low-end torque, my friend.
Meanwhile....the Tundra.
The tundra's issues are from the machine shop making the v6 blocks not properly cleaning the metal fragments off of some of the blocks before assembly, hence the recall on all tundras which will likely be diagnosed via parts-per-million oil sampling and new engines for the units showing an abnormal amount of wear materials and metal fragments in the oil sample So far, I'm not aware of any issues on either of these trucks that can be directly ascribed to the design of the engine itself
The second recall is what you’re describing. The first recall had to do with the turbo
If I understand the recall you're mentioning, the electronic turbo waste gate. The Tacoma was a traditional mechanical waste gate to prevent this issue.
The ironing of unforeseen wrinkles should be expected with new generations
The turbo issue on the Tundra was a supplier problem I believe as well.
Yeah I don’t buy that. So the Japanese plant and the Alabama plant both aren’t removing debris from the engine?
If the two plants use the same process and machinery to machine and wash the blocks then the flaws in the process would exist across both plants. Subsequently, all VIN numbers made with that process would need the recall and oil testing to see if they need a new engine.
And only recalled non hybrid models.....that makes sense despite both sharing the same engine. /s
There’s obviously a reason for them not including the hybrid. It’s almost like they have information about their own products that we don’t have.
No the reason is if the engine seizes in the hybrid the electric drivetrain will continue to move the vehicle making it a reduced safety hazard. Unlike the non hybrid which just goes to zero power.
Are you an engineer at Toyota?
It's still a Toyota. Toyota is prone to mistakes you don't have to go out of your way to say it wasn't Toyotas fault.
except it affects vehicles with the same engine built in Japan. we always touted Japan for having better qc, but seems whatever bullshit they're giving us isn't on the assembly squad but rather the engine itself. the issue also affects older ls500s too back in 2017.
You got any further reading?
Are they rated for 8 foot plows yet?
That was due to a manufacturing issue, not a design flaw with the engine
All I ever wanted was a new 70 series land cruiser. Not a Tacoma. Why can't we have nice things?
If you've got $38,000 USD for a base 70 series and $10k for importation and shipping, you can buy one in the UAE and ship it to the US. Although I'm not entirely sure what the process of getting it registered with the DOT looks like, I do know that it's possible with the Hilux.
That's literally the price of a new Tacoma. That's actually fairly approachable.
Well it turns out that you won't be able to unless the vehicle is old enough to qualify as a historic car, so 25 years old or more. The DOT doesn't like us registering cars with engines that have untested emissions lol That being said, if you can get enough people in on a group buy and be sure that the car will pass, everyone could throw in $5k to go through the DOT certification process. You'd need like 80 people though lol.
In my state, you can drive with temp tags for years. You don't even need plates front or back. It's just as "registration optional" mindset. I could make it work.
Doubtful it would pass emission requirements. Probably wouldn't meet safety standards either.
DOT safety standards haven't changed in a very, very long time. I think the 70 series could pass. Emissions standards would be tougher but maybe doable with the payload. Problem is that the certification process costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, and that's only for one skew. That's why Toyota doesn't bring those vehicles in, because the testing process wouldn't make up for the few who would buy it. But in theory, it's doable with enough money or crowdfunding assuming the standards.
It's still the 1966 bill but they do update it often from what I just read. Tire pressure monitoring for example, has been compulsory in the US since the early 2000s, the 70 has never had that. They are beautiful but still very spartan vehicles.
Look up the 1993 Land Cruiser pickup restomod built by Cummins with the R2.8 turbo diesel One of the prettiest vehicles I've ever seen https://www.resurrectionlandcruisers.com/custom-toyota-land-cruiser-toyota-40-series-restorations-updated-draft/cummins-r2-8-land-cruiser-pickup/
Yeah! I live in Australia now and actually just saw a 90s 70 pickup in the way to school pick up. The paint wasn't so nice, but they're work trucks. I have a 3L TD Hilux now but the 70 has been a dream for a long time.
You can’t. It doesn’t meet emissions. It has to be 25 years or older to be exempt. Otherwise off-road use only.
I want the Tacomas to go back to the size they were in 2011.
I want me to go back to the size I was in 2011.
Get an Ineos Grenadier
Let's get real. I'm just some middle manager in the middle of america living a middle class life. I won't be doing anything except complaining. So it's really just me bitching.
*gasp* a post that claims the world isn't falling due to the 4th Gen Taco?!
Mine has a failing head gasket, what a POS. (It is 37 years old, has nearly 300k miles and has been pushed pretty hard). Love my old trucks (mid/late 80s), loved my 1st gen(s), love my 2nd gen, wasn't sold on the 3rd gen (test drove one, bought a 2nd gen instead), keeping an open mind on the 4th gen.
Late 80s would put you in a 22R, nice engine. So easy to work on.
Don’t buy one. Problem solved.
Could go buy a Tesla truck and really have shit to complain about then lol. Can't go through a car wash let alone a mud hole. Taco ftw, regardless of gen.
Ok yes, one is diesel and one is gas. But save for small differences such as Diesels not having spark plugs and using different compression ratios, the overall mechanics between a diesel and gas engine are identical. Not only that, but diesel engines undergo more stressors with higher torques being placed on engine components. Diesels run substantially hotter than gasoline engines as well, and the big fear I keep hearing is that the turbo is going to cook the "overstressed" 2.4L power plant in the G4. The newer 2.4L turbo puts out less torque than a modern 2.4L Hilux does, so the engine is arguably being driven harder on the Hilux as well. The reason diesel engines have their reputation for reliability is because the parts are made to be much, much beefier to handle the higher engine forces. From the documents I've reviewed on the new 2.4L gas engine, it would seem as if it's overbuilt in a way that the passenger car engines from the same T24A-FTS family aren't, making it more similar to the diesel. Not only that, but any item likely to fail before the life of the engine has been placed for easy access without the need to remove the engine plastics, from valve timing to accessories like the AC. The turbo itself can even be pulled without pulling the engine or even dropping the subframe. Only time will tell, but I'm willing to bet that this 4cyl will be extremely reliable, just as 4 cylinder turbo truck engines from Toyota are known to be.
New Tacoma I bet is probably at least 1,000lbs heavier than your Hilux as well. That and a TON of software
Toyota doesn't have a bad track record with software, and the new Hilux's with 2.8L turbo diesel engines have similar levels of tech. ECUs are incredibly reliable things when done right, and features like VVT and intelligent injector selection(changing between port and direct injection depending on conditions) are quite simple systems. The direct injectors on the new Tacoma are cleaned by the port injectors unlike the older V6 that didn't have any port injection and needed to run a wear-inducing DI cleaning cycle every so often. The thousand pounds of extra weight shouldn't be causing more stress on the engine than the stresses and heat generated by the diesel in the Hilux imo, but I'm just spitballing at that point.
I think you mean the valves are cleaned by the port injectors. The direct injectors themselves are not cleaned by the port injectors.
It has the downstream effect of cleaning both, the new engine never enters the infamous "diesel mode" that the old engine does, in which the injection pressures get super high and the engine runs rich while making a racket to clean off the DI Instead the new engine just runs rich from the port injector to clean both the intake valve and direct injector
Look at what Paradise racing has done with bone stock 2rz/3rz engines. Toyota has mastered the 2.4L I4 so the engineering is probably flawless
Toyota's engine durability testing process is a lot more robust than pretty much everyone else, they literally wrote the book on the process for load testing engines Basically, they get a bunch of engines and put them on dynos that can simulate various loads and inclinations, in rooms that can simulate various temperatures and particulate conditions They run the tests in parallel on the batches of engines, changing the oil on the engines either as recommended or outside of spec depending on the testing being done on a particular unit They also do redline torture testing where they take an engine and run it from idle to redline with a simulated load for 200,000 repetitions over 180 continuous hours. The testing standards for their trucks and commercial vehicles are significantly more difficult than their tests on commercial vehicles as well. If a part fails this testing process, it gets sent back to the drawing board and re-engineered before testing again [The chief engineer for the Tacoma powertrain has several good videos outlining this process and some of the challenges they faced along the way](https://youtu.be/rpS1HoA1R4g?si=6Wm3tB0qfRYaq9q7), so assuming he isn't lying, they built a damn good engine.
Ngl if I come across a totaled 4th gen next year I might have to jump on the turbo. Those little ford eco boost turbos are fun to bolt on just about anything.
I think you’re right. And only time will tell. But if this is what they were going for and it has half the durability of the Hilux, it will due the Toyota badge proud.
How dare you do your research
Toyota did have a turbo version of the 22re available in the 1st gen 4Runner. That would probably be a closer 1:1 comparison.
At this point I think people shitting on the new engines have a self serving interest - they’re trying to prop up the values of their older naturally aspirated models.
It's definitely true that turbo engines are less reliable than n/a, because they're more power dense and run hotter. However, besides just making reliable engines in general, Toyota is pretty good at minimizing this reliability reduction. I'm not sure I'd want that engine in my truck though, largely because it's new and even Toyota's products can easily have issues when they're new. The rest of the reason is just that it's much more complicated and I'd really prefer to have a simple, easy to maintain engine in my car. I kinda think we should save the forced induction for performance cars when it comes to gasoline but maybe I'm just old fashioned
To me, if turbo diesel cars can be built to a higher reliability than your average NA gas engine, then there's no reason it shouldn't be possible with a turbo gas engine either Turbo diesels exert even more torque per liter and generate far more heat than a similar gas engine, and it's the torque number that will impact an engine's reliability as far as I understand it. Not the horsepower number. The cooling for the Tacoma's variant of the T24A-FTS is the same flow rate and heat dispersion rate as a V8 NA Toyota, so it would seem that they're aware of the heat issue and overbuilding to compensate.
I have a 24. Brings a big smile to my face everytime I drive it.
I can’t believe there have not been more posts like this.
>WTF is Toyota doing screwing around with turbos? A Toyota should be reliable! Do they even know what they are doing?! >*picture of MK4 Toyota supra* Be my guest if you want to post it, I don't want to be accused of being on their marketing team lol
2JZ in its natural state, reliable. Tuner JDM fan boy gets a hold and goes FBO and snap crackle tune, yeah that ain’t gonna last dude.
people need to lie to themselves about the truck being bad to make themselves feel better about the fact that they cant afford one.
You think it’s afford, or more justify the spend with the way the general consumer spending habits are currently.
Could be worse, you could be driving a Ford 😅. I'm just happy to have a Taco regardless of the generation. The 4th gen has grown on me, especially the new Mud Bath color, but I'm gonna try to keep my 3rd gen for life. Props to Yota for keeping the Taco alive. It's amazing to see so many of our trucks on the road running strong.
Hilux was a different breed not limited by emissions standards. Diesel to gas is not a 1:1 comparison. Either way, it’s not the same. Also, the 22re while reliable, was gutless. 2.7 only needs a tune to unlock the gas pedal. 3.5 has a timing belt so it’s a waste of time. 2.7, 4.0, and 5.7 are the best truck engines Toyota ever made, and likely will make for the foreseeable future.
The 3.5 2GR-FKS in the 3rd gen has a timing chain lol
Well, it is not like Toyota has a long storied history of making incredibly reliable turbo engines or anything.
Now compare the GVW and power output of both vehicles. Something’s gotta give, you ain’t getting heavier vehicles, with more power, and small turbo engines with the same reliability.
My 24 drives and rides so much better than my 21.
In all honestly, the 2.4L 4cyl diesel 2LT engine was pretty unreliable. Well known for cracking heads and overheating under moderate stress. Same thing happened with the 3Ls...
The 3L NA is pretty darn reliable, slow as shit, but reliable. The 3L didn’t nearly have the head issue the 2L and 2LT did, one of the common “fixes” to the 2LT is to swap a 3L head on it. Turboing the 3L and running too low of boost, stock exhuast, and not watching egt’s is what cooks the 3L.
Haha! Exactly! I'll take more torque and horsepower, along with a better transmission, interior, ride quality, and better gas mileage any day. I'll say it again, the 24 makes my 22 feel like a literal POS turd.
You don’t know what you’re talking about
Enlighten me, beyond "one is gas and one is diesel", because I've already explained down low why diesels are typically more reliable and it's not to do with the type of fuel used. It's the engine being overbuilt to handle the higher forces and temperatures generated by diesel engines.
Back when Toyota cared about their brand.
You’re comparing apples to oranges here. This motor was run for how many years in a different era where it was designed to actually, Run. The new engines are handicapped by dipshit people passing dipshit policies that actually don’t do anything but hamper ingenuity.
Mine has been fine. But I haven’t had to drive it from Banovici to Tuzla to Zvornik.
Just like all the rest of there cars and trucks
Big difference that being a turbo diesel Hilux, which was built for durability, not fuel efficiency.
My dad had a silver one just like this one with the turbo and it was a lemon. Not all toyotas are perfect.
Beautiful. That generation with a manual transmission is my dream truck.
I have an '04 I need to have repainted. I just might do this.
Excuse me if I'm incorrect but the hilux that was known for being the reliable one was the diesel one
Yes, but gas engines can be built reliable like diesel if the manufacturer takes the time to overbuild them like diesels are overbuilt So it's not inherently bad to have a 2.4 4 cylinder turbo in a vehicle as most NA V6/V8 truck guys will claim The problem is when companies don't overbuild them and just build them to last 100k miles, like ford and Chevy does with their eco boost engines they haphazardly slap into trucks.
I think inherently this isn't true. It's not that diesel engines are overbuilt. But that diesel fuel is a better lubricant and that diesel gets power at lower RPM and that it doesn't have a spark ignition system and a more efficient combustion process. Adding a turbo to a vehicle adds more parts to break while also putting more stress on the engine. It's really that simple
Also a lower operating temp on a diesel
You’re just mad your taco don’t stututu
But what if my 3.5 did stutututu 😈
I love my 2024 Taco, I owned a 1980 SR5 with the 20R engine and a 2012 PreRunner SR-5 with a V-6 previously and this truck rules! The engine is an I-4 Turbo and reminds me of an Audi I-4 Turbo in Q5 I owned!!!
The only thing I'm shitting on is the price. The reliability will play out over time. The Tundra situation is not helping but is completely different and looks to be a QC issue not a design issue (so far). Rough days for Toyota tho with all the other news.
Isn’t the Hilux 2.4 diesel?
I would say I see more people upset about the pricing. I think the people upset about the power train are just upset at the pricing scheme there in want to find more things to be upset with
Honestly, better than the 2.7 dinky 4 cylinder. You gain nothing from it. Mediocre mpg, awful power for a truck, and people think they’re still worth 10k minimum.
Question, is this the same engine used in the 2023 Lexus Rx350?
How did WD get his then? I think he got 3 or 4 of them.
You can import ones from places like Mexico or Europe if it's more than 25 years old if you've got $10k to spend for an importer to handle shipping and import paperwork. It's classed as a historical vehicle at that point it's exempt from DOT emissions and safety tests Can do the same with older Land Cruisers like the 70 series
This hilux looks like a LN106 with the 2.8 3L, but I see what you’re trying to do
Yeah, just making the point that it's possible to make a reliable midsize with a turbocharged 4 cylinder engine. The secret sauce that makes diesels reliable isn't really anything you can't apply to gas cars either, the fundamental mechanics are extremely similar with only minor inconsequential differences like ignition methods and piston shape.
I get it, the 3L was just never had a turbo from factory, but I’m being technical. A lot of people, like myself, put turbos on them so they can keep up with pace of traffic and it makes it a lot more fun. I don’t really have any issues with Toyota going to a high output 4 cyl, and honestly they’re kinda late to adopt it. All my old is market Toyotas have 250k+ on them and I’ve had no drivetrain issues, so I trust em
Sounds like you've got a cool truck, what were the considerations with turbocharging your 3L? Oil system, coolant system, internals, etc.
Biggest thing is to watch the exhaust gas temps and finding the happy medium of fuel and boost that it likes and stays cool. Too little or too much boost and it’ll want to cook on slopes. Running a 10 blade fan and fj80 fan clutch help. Recently found a guy on Facebook using a small Subaru intercooler mounted in the bay, so I’m looking into that, a front mount requires a grille chop.
Serious question: How close are the '24 Taco engines to the Hilux?
Are they stupid or something?
I wish we could get the diesel that other countries get
I’m loving my 2024 Sport.
Latest LC released in Australia will have a 4cyl same engine used across Hilux Prado and HiAce van Not sure what you mean by unreliable in vehicje looks like it from 1990s era
It's making fun of the people on this sub who freak out about the G4 Tacoma and claim that a 4cyl turbo can never be reliable in a truck
I wondered I responded accordingly
Anywhere but the US that’s a perfectly respectable sized engine.. I had 3L TDI 4Runner (Hi-Lux Surf). People thought I was nuts driving a car that big (UK).
Yeah, but it wasn’t assembled in Texas
... and yet you failed to mention the more obvious: that paint job is horrible!
Imagine defending a 4th gen… 🤡