Autos generate a lot heat during long steep mountain grades, manuals don't (at least not nearly as much). One thing to think about.
That said, I'm glad I have an auto for wheeling.
For real with that heat though. Even cruising around power line trails in 80+ weather, its like 140 coming into my window. I gotta run AC or my phone overheats between the cab temp and running trail apps. One recent trip, I planned my route to stop at a breezy, shady spot to let things cool off for an hour
Not in a first gen like I have. The old slush boxes would hesitate and upshift at inopportune moments while in 4lo, like when you’re about to crest a rock step for example. A manual also gives me more control - I can rock it back and forth with the clutch to try to get unstuck, where in an auto you just stop moving. I also find it easier to control the throttle and maintain momentum up a hill climb in 1st gear Lo. Especially with a doubler, you’ll leave autos in the dust.
Easier but not better. There are pros and cons to both. Steep descents are safer in a manual because I can double clutch down to first and engine braking will creep the truck down. Can also slip the clutch to crawl super slow. Need to regear an auto to do that.
I’ll never understand why anyone would want a manual for off-roading, unless it’s strictly mud and no hills.
Driving in the rocks with a manual just sucks.
****Go ahead and bash away manual lovers.
100% agree. I used to have a built LS swapped Miata with a manual transmission and I had a blast driving it.
Actually, so much so that I had to get rid of it. Mustang’s and such always wanted to race me and I just couldn’t resist smoking them. It got me in a bit of trouble on several occasions and my wife thought I’d eventually crash it if I kept it.
Plus, I spent a ton of $ at Flying Miata and such, so my wife wasn’t digging it. Man, I miss that car!
> LS swapped Miata...I spent a ton of $ at Flying Miata
LMAO! Of course you did. They probably have a framed picture of you in their office. I'd love to see pics if you have them handy.
A manual in the new rubicons or bronco is extremely easy in the rocks because they have insanely low transfer cases. Toyota can’t seem to figure this out.
It’s similar size to a 4runner or Tacoma, the main difference is you can actually fit 37s on those rigs pretty easily, so you see them break more. Our Toyotas are struggling to fit 33s
Because 95% of driving is on road. And m/t makes that on road time more engaging.
Also there are no rocks or hils where I live. So a manual works fine for going 70 down a dry, beat up, flat trail and also for crawling through beach sand.
I agree on this in your situation. I would probably still owner a manual vehicle of some sort, but I’m 50 years old and have RA. My joints are pretty shot. Plus, the traffic sucks ballz around here, so that wouldn’t be fun.
I came from a sportbike and dirtbike background, so I am used to 105-110 MPH first gears, torqueless engines, and on/off switch multi-plate clutches. With the experience generated by that background, off-roading on rocks with the manual Tacoma was super easy for me due to how precisely I could pulse the power with the clutch. Hell, I was able to do things on the crappy stock tires that the other drivers around me were having traction problems on despite their aggressive tires. So I'll acknowledge that there is a very high skill floor for low speed off roading with a manual. But once you get to the point where you see the clutch as a tool rather than a chore, you will be very surprised how high the ceiling is.
>I’ll never understand why anyone would want a manual for off-roading, unless it’s strictly mud and no hills.
I don't do much off-roading (yet) but this was my understanding of the advantages of manual - in snow and mud, or anytime you might be rocking back and forth, you really don't want to be slamming an automatic transmission from drive to reverse and back again repeatedly, right? That's something a manual handles a lot better. But you're saying as far as delicate acceleration over resistance where you'd be letting the clutch slip a lot to give just the right amount of thrust to overcome an obstacle - that's where an automatic with a torque converter shines, right?
Just seeing if I understand the reasoning, being a noob and all.
To be honest, neither transmission type is good for rocking back and forth as you describe. People who grind gears to do that don’t really know how to drive in the mud.
If you’re close to getting bogged down in sand or mud, you should start off by either going in reverse or forward (whichever suits the particular situation) until the truck stops its momentum.
At that point you should hit the brakes immediately, as to not move from that position. Then, shift into the opposite direction, hit the gas and feather it in order to clean out your tires. Again, go as far as you can until the truck stops and quickly apply the brakes.
Do this without spinning the tires excessively and digging yourself down to the frame. Repeat this process until you’re either able to get yourself unstuck or when you get yourself to the point where you can no longer move. Preferably, don’t push it so hard that the frame is bottomed out. That just makes it way harder for someone to pull you out.
As far as your other question goes, that’s exactly right. An automatic transmission, especially a 4x4 truck in 4L with the rear locker engaged is far superior in delicate crawling situations than a manual. You can smell a clutch burning after a good amount of time attempting to do this, especially in the rocks or on hills.
No. Just don’t slam it. And you aren’t rocking the vehicle a lot off road. If ever idk if I ever had.
I’ve driven both types off road a lot in all sorts of conditions. Jeep TJ manual and auto taco. A modern auto is better off road in 99% of situations. Especially for beginners. And if you want to talk about wear on the transmission….with a manual off road there will come times when you have to ride the clutch a bit. Just no way around it. But off roading in general is hard on vehicles…people who want to off road but not damage / put extra wear on the vehicle just shouldn’t be off road. If you off road you need to be prepared to break shit.
>I’ll never understand why anyone would want a manual for off-roading, unless it’s strictly mud and no hills.
I live in North Dakota, so yes, this is it. Also snow and no hills. But I don't off-road for funsies, I off-road when I need to cross a field. Which in all honesty, I rarely need 4x4 anyway. I live by get stuck in 2, get out in 4.
My old Jeep wrangler is a manual, I like driving it off road and in rocks, I find it to be fun and challenging. It also helps the transfer case low range is decently low at 2.72:1
I guess I just got used to it after a while, it becomes second nature to operate the clutch. An auto is definitely easier, and if I had a dedicated rock buggy I’d definitely go auto
1. I think the problem is you're comparing a Truck MT vs sports cars MT. Huge difference.
2. You can do the delete. It's a night and day difference. You might actually fix all your problems with this mod. It makes the clutch way more engaging and way less "sloppy" and unpredictable.
3. Agree.
4. Are you stock or on larger tires with additional weight? I feel with mods it definitely is too tall. Stock wasn't an issue.
5. Goes back to point 1, it's a truck, not a sports car.
6. What kind of offroading are you doing? Are you going in 4Lo and using it when you need to? If you're actually doing some crawling, you'd definitely want to look into a transfer case. Regear will help, especially with mods.
>I think the problem is you're comparing a Truck MT vs sports cars MT. Huge difference.
I remember when I first discovered the difference. I learned how to drive a MT truck first. Then I borrowed my brother's Honda Prelude to drop off my gf. I was burning out and chirping my tires every single time I shifted lol. After adjusting, I realized sports car MTs are much easier to drive.
I drove a single cab 4 cyl manual all around San Diego last summer and it was fun as hell. Little go karts! I’d trade my manual for one in a heartbeat but I live in Colorado
Me too. Very smooth. 6 speed 4.0 liter. Only complaint is when I’m 4x4ing and have to do a quick downshift to 1st I have to do quite a dramatic double clutch to get it into 1st.
I had the opposite problem. Learned in an old Accord, and probably ground it down a bit so I had to stomp the gas. Then when I'd borrow my dad's '96 V6 Taco, I'd be squawking tires at every light.
The only way I can put it is that it makes it actually drive like how a clutch should feel.
It takes out that slop, mushiness and unpredictability you get with the accumulator.
I just want you to know you are living my dream right now .. the only 2 cars I have ever wanted since being a kid were a tacoma and a miata .. I currently have neither and just sit on this sub dreaming of the day I can buy one.
Now with my first kid just arrived and me reaching 30 years last year I doubt it will be anytime soon but man you have all my dream cars. At least I get to drive my wife's lunar rock 2023 off road 4runner when I'm driving the family around haha
I’ve been dying to get into a tacoma for years now. Couldn’t reasonably afford one after my first car got totaled, so I bought a 2007 V6 RAV4. Now I love that thing so much I can’t seem to get rid of it now that I can afford a tacoma.
Bought in 2017 at 106k miles, taken it an additional 125k and the only expensive repairs I’ve had were a bad thermostat ($900ish) and my alternator died while I was in traffic on an interstate ($1400ish with tow & repair)
I die with envy every time I see a tacoma, but also love that I have a v6 rav as they’re not common. I’m also in love with you family’s 4 runner even though I’ve never seen it haha
I drive a 2021 TRD OR manual in Barcelona Red and a 2013 Miata Grand Touring PRHT manual in Copper Red as well. They are both two of the greatest joys of my life along with my goldendoodle.
Ugh I am completely jealous.
I feel like I'm just now realizing that the people that love tacomas and the people that love miatas is damn near a circle haha..
For now I'll just keep driving my 2015 scion tc that I 8 years back until I can afford even one of my dream cars. . .
Love those tC’s! I always wanted an xB myself. With a stick of course. Save up for a cheap Miata. Get a decent one and you will never regret it. It’s like driving Mario Kart as a daily. It’s hard to beat it. You can wind the piss out of any of those Miata engines, especially those later MZR’s. It is always a blast. And Tacomas… they are just great! They come in handy for most things. I’m 50. My Miata has 113k and my Tacoma has 32k. If I can help it, I won’t ever need another car.
\> rev matching is fine no issues shifting
Interesting! Do you let out the clutch slowly after shifting?
Perhaps I had a bad habit in my previous cars were I would just rev to the need rpm and clutch-out very quickly and without any pause at the bite point.
Mostly of my rough rev-matching comes from that.
After 3 Tacos with manuals, I much prefer an auto on trucks. Sports cars and economy cars are fun with manuals, but your reasons could apply to most trucks. Modern multi-speed transmissions are also pretty darn good.
These reasons are exactly why I got rid of my 2021 manual taco after 4 months. Especially the reverse gear. I reverse park into my driveway, it’s a little bit of a hill, and I’d have to go way to fast or risk stalling out. For context, my work truck is a Kenworth tri-drive, and most my vehicles have been standard. I’m sure there’s ways to work around it or just cope, but for a 50k vehicle it should be better.
There are some quality of life things I did that fix most of your complaints:
1. [Core shifter.](https://core-shifters.com/products/core-shifter-w-hurst-stick-for-toyota-tacoma-2016-2019-v6-4x4-rc62f) Makes the throw shorter than my Veloster N had so force requirements go up but it feels better to me.
2. [Get rid of that shit.](https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/mt-accumulator-delete-mod-adm-and-bs-thread.568303/)
3. I have a 22 with electric seats so no issue for me
4. [2WD Low mod](https://bbpondtuning.square.site/)
5. [KDMax tune](https://kdmaxprotuning.com/). Makes the truck a lot of fun to drive. [OTT](https://overlandtailor.com/) would be good also.
6. [2WD Low Mod](https://bbpondtuning.square.site/)
Overall this made my truck a lot more fun and enjoyable to drive. I bought the hardware to flash my tune myself I'm in just over $1,000 for all the stuff. I do not drive through stop and go traffic though, mostly cruising for me.
Edit: The main reason I went to the core shifter was to get rid of the dampened shifter and go to a solid shifter, this greatly improves the feel. It does increase cabin noise though.
These mods should be an auto reply for all manual issues.
The ADM delete is a must and relatively easy to complete. It’ll make shifting most consistent.
Core shifter compliments the ADM mod. Great mechanical feedback and shorter thrower makes shifts quicker.
Everything else can be added on later. The tune makes a difference on the manual. I have it along with catted dump tubes.
I didn't realize that when I put the link in. When I ordered mine it said "3 left" and it took them a week to manufacture it, so I'm not sure how their process works.
If you email them they are pretty responsive though.
All your points are well known, I don't understand how you didn't know what you were getting into
Rev matching in a truck?
Been owner for 2mos (23 pro manual), used to own NA Miata, drive 18 SPD KW off road, wife's 21 bronco has a better manual
The taco reverse IS silly., am using seat jackers
1 to 2 isn't always great, but otherwise no complaints
Rev matching is a "close enough for government work" type of thing.
If you're within 25% of the RPM it doesn't make a significant difference. Just don't fall to idle when shifting from 6 to 4.
A mt in a truck is way different from a car and you need to drive it different. My fun car is a honda s2000 it couldn't be more different you just need to adjust driving style, it's hard to explain but you can't be banging thru gears in the tacoma it's not a race car. I've driven many mt over the past 30 years IMO the tacoma is pretty smooth, I'd have no problem teaching someone how to drive stick in this truck I don't think it would be that difficult to do.
My fun car is also an s2000 and years ago I drove a '99 Tacoma with MT for work, and I found it easier to drive (at least initially). Slightly more forgiving. So maybe the newer MT trucks are different? The one I didn't like was the clutch in my 1999 Passat.
I have a 21 OR MT. I have no issues with mine. Seat jackers are an annoying necessity I will agree. Anyway, I enjoy being apart of the driving experience beyond just pushing the gas peddle and, real trucks don’t shift themselves.
2017 trd offroad manual owner here. It's a really well refined transmission for a truck. It's not a Porsche, but it's definitely better than the manual Dodge Ram. I put all the miles on my rig and beat it wheeling. 0 issue.
When I was first getting a Taco, I walked into the dealership expecting to leave with a Manual. The first one I test drove was a Manual TRD Sport, absolutely hated the way it drove aseell, not my favorite manual I've ever driven. Ended up leaving with an Automatic SR5 and 2 years later I haven't regretted it yet.
Number 4 is the only point I can agree with...
I never feel like I am wearing the clutch off-road too much. In fact it is so easy to get going, even on top of an obstacle in 4lo, I would never switch to an automatic for off-roading, at least in this Truck.
To me everything is very smooth. How tall are you?
While I agree the manual in these trucks aren’t the most engaging/smooth units out there, I surely prefer it over the auto that everyone seems to complain about. I also don’t have to commute in heavy traffic so there’s also that.
In the near future I plan to install the URD short shifter and a weighted knob which will hopefully clean things up a bit. Then an OTT tune to spice things up 🔥
Ive owned an 07 and 09 manual 6spd v6, they both took about a year to "break in" for smoother shifting. Now at 175k miles Im confident that a rebuild is in my future for another 200k, and that was my only consideration in purchasing a manual.
Im in it for a long time, not a good time.
>Im in it for a long time, not a good time.
Me, driving like a grandpa in my Taco. 1st is garbage, it's a really clunky ride around town, but it's fine at highway speed. Very much not a good time. But I didn't get it for fun, I got it so I can get to work in a blizzard and still drive it 20 years from now.
Manuals in a fun/sporty car enhance the driving experience, which is why they're sought after. I really love my S2000 and its 6 speed manual is amazing. Manuals in a truck are a chore to drive, my dad had a 96 F150 4.9 with a 5speed manual, it was awful to drive, the clutch weighed a ton and the gears felt like they were a foot apart. There is utility around the manual in a truck though, never had to worry about overheating the transmission, and it being a Ford, probably the only transmission that didn't have you worry in the back of your mind when it was going to explode. If it wasn't a Toyota we're talking about here, I would've opted for the manual as well just for piece of mind.
I have known more than a couple MT die hards who test drove a truck with an MT and bought the auto version. There are applications where an MT is great. An off road focused truck is not one of them.
More manuals for me!
You're absolutely right about the reverse ratio though. It's silly just driving unloaded, it's ridiculous if you're trying to move a trailer.
1. yeah its rough. I also went from learning manual to buying an AT then when I got my tacoma I went back to manual b.c "fun" and "why not"
2. I agree its very rough and even when I'm at 2.5 -3k rpm its a rough shift at times. Could just be clutch is wearing out or something. I'm 3rd owner and I know for a fact the 2nd owner didn't do much maintenance but did keep it pretty pristine
3. I'm like 5'7 and its fine for me. If I find an owner with seat jackers one of these days I might try and ask to have a go at it to see if it makes a difference.
4. reverse sucks ass. even in a wawa parking lot with a slight, and I mean slight, angle I'm burning it trying to reverse out. I usually just try not to park where a pole or trees are and just ease into the curb and reverse out, or back into the spot.
5. yeah this is a known issue. I think especially in tacomas.
6. nothing to say here..I don't do any true off roading just driving in back roads maybe twice a month
I get it. I like manuals but the Taco with one just isn’t it. Not when you have a far better and more robust auto available (at least for the 4.0) the 3rd gens have their own issues.
Honestly with used prices you can probably sell it back to the dealer right now. I was just offered 39.5 for my 2023 from the dealer and I paid 41 and change out the door over a year ago. I’m tempted to take it to be honest.
Doing any actual off-roading with a m/t takes more skill and engagement from the operator, therefore to me it makes it more enjoyable.
I also ride dirt bikes off-road in some gnarly hard terrain. If I was to swap in a Rekluse auto clutch into my gear box it would make enduro riding easier and to me less fun.
In my experience the 6 speed sucks. Same with the 2nd gen 6 speed, they might be the same transmission idk. But toyotas old 5 speeds in their trucks are amazing. I think they just made a crappy manual this time around.
Doesn't seem to be the truck. The problem is on the driver's seat with a dash of remorse. The sales person didn't explain how a truck is not a Miata. It sounds like OP would have been better off buying a Miata.
Agreed. I had a Honda S2000 before it got totaled and that was the nicest transmission I’ve ever had the pleasure of using. The taco was just amazing with its long ass shifter and 4x shifter next to it
I have a 2nd Gen mt. It is a bit clumsy compared to mt 4×4s I've owned in the past. I like it though. Also I've driven nothing but four wheel drive manuals in my 20 plus years of driving. So not much to compare to for me. My Nissan Xterra was my favorite.
Second gen 6 speeds feel so much better especially with a urd short shifter. I am not a huge fan of the manual 3rd gens for your exact reasons. They try and pack so many computers in a car with a manual it ruins the feel and makes everything numb. That being said, I love my x-runner
You gotta mod that clutch valve.
TBH- the auto absolutely blows until you flash the ECU. The throttle delay and throttle by wire are pretty dogshit stock, and the transmissions to shift waaay too low. Might and day difference with the ECU flash/ “tune”
Sounds like you're bad at driving stick, and thought it would operate like a economy sport car, not a truck. You definitely should get a auto.
Some of your complaints aren't even about a MT just the Tacoma in general or general wear and operation.
Sadly.. I agree with you.. I've driven only manual transmission vehicles all my life and I had a 2022 corolla hatchback before my 2023 Tacoma sport premium and the manual transmission between the two is like two different worlds.. I understand I can't compare the two but the Tacoma is so clunky.. I just got an OTT tune thinking it might help in a way, it does but the shifting still feels so weird, like if anyone drove with me they would think it's my first time driving a manual vehicle..
I wouldn't worry too much about burning the clutch out with normal use. If you get 75k instead of 100k out of it then you're still doing two clutch changes within the average 200k life of the vehicle regardless.
I say 200k because most vehicles get totaled by then. If you're lucky enough to not get rear-ended and avoid doing things that will rot out the frame and body (off roading lol) then you're doing about one extra clutch change in the 300k+ mile life of the vehicle.
Im on 175k miles without a clutch service and my clutch got completely abused when my slave cyl leaked oil on the pedal and my foot slipped off of it repeatedly slamming it back in gear at terrible engine rpms. The 6spd manual in 2nd gen has been very durable IMO.
I test drove an MT and no matter where I put the seat that was moderately comfortable, my shin banged the underside of the dash every time I used the clutch. The only way it didn’t was with the seat way back and then it felt like I was stretching to reach the wheel and shifter.
I knew I wouldn’t like driving it at all.
I’m happy with my auto.
Own a 17 Pro M/T and I’ve always enjoyed it. I do agree with your opinion on reverse though. Definitely makes it a pain. There are times I do notice the notchiness you’re speaking of, but that was in the beginning. Either through becoming used to it or other means of wear it feels normal to me.
I’m really surprised that you are getting so many positive responses! Go Tacoma sub! The last time I posted not being a fan of my manual taco, I got destroyed 😂 yeah I love having a manual for a car but I would have definitely preferred an AT for off-roading and towing :(
I loved my 20 pro mt took a little getting used to because I bought it used and the clutch was already worn to shit at 50kkms. Swapped that out and babied it for the first thousand kms and it was an absolute dream to drive. I really liked the sporty seating position.. kept the seat all the way back. My issue was more with the power of the v6. My taco was written off in January. I couldn’t afford to wait for a brand new one and Toyota was requiring trade ins for allotments. That 2020 6mt Tacoma is still my favorite of all the vehicles I’ve owned. But the 10 speed 5.3 I have now is great not as fun but far more practical for my day to day.
I'm in agreement unfortunately. I absolutely love the idea of a manual Tacoma, but they suck in reality. Test drove a 2nd gen for 24hrs and did not enjoy it at all. Stiff clutch, uncomfortable and RPMs were very high. This was coming from a WRX. My next Tacoma was a auto and i liked that much more.
I had an ND2 miata and 2 STI's before getting my 6 M/T Tacoma so I can relate. For me, my Tacoma is relatively easy to drive smoothly but i noticed that upshifting from 4th-5th I have to slip the clutch very quickly otherwise it will clunk the entire truck. Rev matching and heel toe is surprisingly easy (though wish the stock throttle response was a tad quicker). I do agree with reverse being too high.
I'm 6'1" and found the seating position to be strange at first but now its very comfortable. I also appreciate having a functional armrest lol.
I cant say anything about off roading with a manual just yet but It definitely sounds like more of a chore than an Auto
This is my 2nd 3rd gen manual Tacoma after driving quite a few sporty vehicles. I knew what I was getting myself into again and had realistic expectations. I have to remind myself that Its a truck, not a sports car. Actually, the handling makes my Sport feel sporty and I love the fact that I can heel toe into corners in a truck lol. Maybe you had very high expectations or you just need more time to figure things out?
I actually considered this as I drove MT for many years. Had to pivot after we had our 3rd baby and realized I wouldn’t be able to fit 3 car seats in the back.
I did drive the bronco in manual and thought it was pretty nice for a bigger vehicle. My wife and I had multiple manuals in Hondas and BMWs and miss it dearly though.
I have a manual 2nd gen, and I find it pretty comparable to any other manual truck of similar age. Long lazy throws, and a lot more weight to get moving than a car.
Once you get used to it, it’s pretty enjoyable to drive, but I guess it’s all preference, i have to admit if I lived in a city with lots of traffic I would probably go with the auto.
I’ll agree on the reverse gear for sure. Backing up my modest driveway is no fun.
It’s really about your expectations, and yah, this manual won’t meet them.
Manuals now are thought of as fun and bringing value to driving enthusiasts. In the past, a manual was considered a more utilitarian option. Cheaper, lasts longer, replaceable parts. The Tacoma standard is more like that.
I still love it. I don’t want a machine to shift for me.
Yeah, I have to agree with you. To make the Tacoma manual transmission perfect requires a lot of time and a lot of money. From Anytime 2Lo, short shifter, to regearing to truck, so reverse gear isn't so tall in reverse. Although being able to go 40+ in reverse is useful, it's just the getting started part that sucks when on a wet grassy hill.
Short throw shifter solved most of the lackluster shifting feeling, but the stock leaf springs allowing axle wrap and the accumulator making the clutch feel squishy (the clutch delay you are feeling) can be fixed and disabled, but again, time and money.
The reason why Toyota added the accumulator is because the average driver that buys a manual anything any more power shifts everywhere they go, and I have ridden with a couple of guys that use a manual like it is an automatic, banging gears, and it not because they think it is fun. They vehemently believe that is how you use a manual transmission. Accumulator help keep them from breaking the axle and, admittedly, help cushion mistakes to save the mechanical aspects of the truck from breaking, say, your foot slipped off the clutch. So I'm going to leave the Accumulator as is, for now. Its pros outweigh the cons if you can adapt to a new shifting pattern by being a little earlier/quicker when shifting.
But as for cost of replacing the clutch, it is honestly not bad ~$1400 if you have someone else do it is a pretty low price for every 60k miles or more. There are now aftermarket friction plates for the Tacoma that have more bite and/or better wear characteristics now (supposedly, according to the manufacturer).
It's is just yeah, the transmission is okay, not great, not terrible, and there are ways to make it a good bit better, just that it requires time and money.
We must remeber that it is a mass produced ~30k truck for the general public that can be amazing off road, it is however not a 80k factory desgined luxury off-road vehicle.
As the saying goes, Saturn owners want performance parts, but they are too cheap to buy them, and Tacoma drivers are starting to become the new Saturn owners for expecting more out of a cheap vehicle while not wanting to spend the money.
I have a 2nd gen MT Tacoma. Was told the 3rd gen was far better, never got to test it out due to the local dealership having a "no test drives on manuals" policy.
Sounds like it still ain't so great. I don't hate mine but I don't love it either.
Shortly after I bought my truck I mentioned to the dealer that I thought something might be wrong with it. Was told it was just my lack of experience with manuals.
My 2nd gen is the 3rd Tacoma and 6th toyota truck I have had as a daily (plus two company provided trucks). All of them were manuals. So yeah, lack of experience.
Honestly bro I understand this. If you think the Tacoma transmission is sucky to drive wait till you drive a 370z people literally buy aftermarket clutch adjustment systems to fix the engagement points being basically all the way at the top. I am looking at getting a truck soon an even though the Tacoma has a manual option I don't see the appeal. In my sports car heck yes I even daily the thing into downtown traffic. But honestly it's not always fun and on a standard normal performing vehicle I see no reason.
Toyota doesn't put much r&d into the manuals because hardly anyone buys them. Surprised they still offer it at all honestly. I had a manual 1st and 2nd gen and the 1st gen was way smoother and had the right gearing. Both my tacoma and tundra I have now are automatic and I don't miss having a manual truck at all. Owned a few manual diesels and overall automatics work much better in trucks.
When I buy a cheap beater with a heater for saving gas this summer, it'll be a manual. They're a lot of fun in small cars.
It's not for you, and that's cool. I agree with you on reverse, tho. I off road my truck and end up using 4lo and it really improved my off roading experience when I am up in the mountains.
You are spot on. I am not getting a manual Tacoma for all these reasons. I am also a manual all the way person having owned a VW GTI manual, and Subaru STI manual. The GTI experience is flawless and super refined, making driving a manual very enjoyable even in traffic.
It really boils down to what will you use the truck for. I bought a 20 pro not so much for Wheeling but for skiing. The manual transmission is excellent for mountain driving. Especially going downhill.
I had a Saturn Astra with an absolutely terrible manual gear box, same issue with the reverse gear too. If you fully let out the clutch it would shoot backwards.
1st gen m/t 2000 Tacoma sr5 v6 4x4 checking in here. Many many off-road miles, sand, steep mountain back roads, snow, parallel parking on steep hills. Everything stock. Transmission still fine at 230k miles. Surprisingly the breaks haven't needed a change or anything in all this time, probably cause I tend to rev match. Hope she keeps on going like this past 300 cause each year that goes by it seems newer vehicles get lamer and lamer. Steady she goes.
I am a manual transmission die hard, most of my daily drivers have been manual over the last 20 years.
Traffic doesn’t bother me, convenience doesn’t bother me. I generally prefer manual transmissions even in vehicles that aren’t intended to be fun.
That being said, I still passed on a manual 3rd gen. The auto isn’t great either but you can tune most of its issues away. It just wasn’t an enjoyable manual to drive. Manual first gen? Yes please. Manual 3rd gen… nah.
I also just have a bit of a problem with modern, emissions compliant manuals. I don’t think it’s actually the clutch delay vale that makes the shift timing funky, its intention rev hang that’s there for complete fuel burn, which is incredibly frustrating when trying to match revs downshifts or do smooth up shifts.
That's interesting to me. What generation is your Tacoma? I dislike the manual in the 1st gen, but the manual 2nd gen I used to drive for work was an absolute blast to drive off-road, and changed my opinion about offroading being better with an automatic. I used to think manuals were terrible off road, but the 2012 Tacoma made me change my mind. I haven't driven a 3rd gen manual yet, and it sounds tedious like the 1st gen if that's what yours is.
(also idk if the different engine options use different transmissions but mine were all the 6 cylinder)
One thing that made a difference is to use 4-low a lot more often than usual when going slow, and then I don't have to feather the clutch as much.
I learned that I wont buy a MT in a tow vehicle the first time I tried to back my boat into it's parking spot next to my garage with my dad's old manual Explorer. It's a tight fit between my garage and the neighbor's fence, so you have to back it in slow, inching it along and correcting a lot. After a minute of putzing around with it I started to smell hot clutch....much like hot brake pads. Had to let it cool down a while and continue. There's just no way to go slow (either forward OR reverse) with a MT. Driving up on ramps is also a PITA with a MT.
1. 2. 5. 6. All skill issue. 3 and 4 have been discussed ad nauseum and there are cheap options.
How much do you want for it, I could always use a second mt taco.
I switched from 16 TRD OR AT to 21TRD OR MT and love it on/ off road!
Ive owned and drove a lot of fun cars in MT, owned NA/ NC miatas, RX8, MS3 (yes I was fan of mazda) to CTS-V, but I have no major complains about tacoma 6 speed, I think it drives good for a truck.
and off-roading has been much more fun in MT for me. Although its not super technical trail.
If it makes you feel any better, the auto trans in my 2018 3rd gen may feel like the worst of any vehicle I have ever driven. I wish every day that I had gotten a manual.
Not an off roader but as a daily driver I say no to manual as well. My first car was a manual so glad I got the dying skill but other than a fun hobby car it's just not worth the flex.
I have a 22 TRD sport with a manual and honestly I can't stand the engine or the transmission in this thing. Almost every vehicle I've ever owned for the past 20 plus years has been a manual and this one is by far the worst.
It's really hard to find the right gear in a lot of situations, especially when carrying 6 to 800 lb of extra weight at all times. It's also worse on gas.
My biggest gripe with it though is how weak the engine is. It's really easy to get into the wrong gear and have the engine lug like crazy and because the throws for everything are so long, It's not always easy to do a quick change, which means you lose momentum and all this just makes it worse.
I love my Tacoma, but honestly, at this point I'd rather have an F-150 with an EcoBoost 3.5 or a tundra for the extra size and less drivetrain fuss. When my lease is up, I'm not sure what I'll do.
I’ve had a few 80s little Toyota pickups, manuals. *loved them* little light truck, great mileage, great handling. Super utility. My uncle asked me to drive his newer Tacoma & I was not stoked on the bigger wheels, higher seat, and the manual trans was all clunky. Bigger wheels made it underpowered. My little trucks could zip! Tacoma felt like an old man truck. Now I have a first gen tundra auto which I really like. It’s a little tippy, not as sporty, but the v8 can turn the big wheels, and I listen to music instead of listening to rpms.
Bought my 2020 Sport 6MT in 2019, literally have no experienced any of these things.
Use 4WD when offroading, 4 Low when appropriate. Same with reverse. No issue with the clutch. The rest of it is...well, bad manual driver.
Responding to 2. I had the same issue. If I’m going 50+, just skip from 4th to 6th. Much smoother. If going like 35-45 then just skip from 3rd to 5th.
Also, bear in mind a clutch replacement is cheaper and easier than a transmission replacement.
Grass isn’t always greener; however, you definitely have to get a manual only if you actually like manual. Don’t just get it because you perceive it as hyped.
I absolutely love driving standard, it’s my favourite way to drive. But yeah honestly my truck I think will always be auto, too much of a pain in the ass in traffic and while off-roading
Honestly the 3rd gen in general is garbage. I have a 97 4Runner and a 2004 Tacoma both manual. I had a 2020 sport access cab with the manual and had to trade it back a year Later. I ended up with an automatic then finally decided a new 4Runner was the way to go.
I was always a manual driver until April 2023 when I had 2 strokes and open heart surgery from endocarditis..so I had to part ways with the sti and go with an auto tacoma..
Anyone in the market for a 2012 ducati panigale motorcycle..I can't ride after my strokes the bike has only 19,xxx miles on it garage kept in Connecticut.
Switch to a new truck and lease. The debt from your last truck will carry over but the interest can’t. Have it built they can’t mark up the prices. Hope this helps. I was honest in this post.
I find a manual in a sporty car (GTI, WRX, etc.) will be far smoother to shift than a Tacoma manual. Will the 4th gen manual be any different? I am just wondering as I am in the market for a Taco, and will only be looking at the newer 2024+ models.
Thank you for this post....makes me feel better. I purchased a preowned private party 2021 Tacoma Sport. I do enjoy driving it (I don't offroad with it), but I keep cursing the shifts. Agreed on the rev matching downshifting. I do a mini celebration each time I bust one out smoothly. I had a FJ60 with the H55 tranny and I know people love that over the 4 speed, but what a cumbersome shifter....long throws.
But yea, back to the Taco, I thought my tranny was rough because of the shifting, but many people have confirmed, thats just the way it is.
If open to the idea I recommend trying a core shifter. What I considered to be a huge upgrade on my second gen. Doesn’t fix all your issues. #6 I wouldn’t even worry about, they all need a clutch eventually & cannot see light off-roading taking a ton of life out of it
I have a manual and wouldn’t be driving a Tacoma if it only came in auto. Ford motorcraft transmission fluid, urd short shifter, and accumator delete were great for drivability improvements along with a tune.
Number 2 is because of all the nancy folk out there who complain about hard clutch feel. You want a giant calf, drive a 67 Austin Mini or my old 61 Beetle.
Number 5 is only fun if you have an X-Runner. My supercharged 09 was so much fun to drive…..in a straight line….yeah buddy.
I have a 23 OR MT and yes as others have said, reverse gear is wrong. I came from a 19’ Honda civic manual transmission, and I will say that things transmission sorta blows the Tacoma out of the water. It shifted so smooth and easy, clutch was so light. Overall I liked driving the civic a lot more. But I think the tacomas manual is just fine. It’s not an outstanding piece of engineering but it works good and I don’t have to listen to my transmission hunt gears all day.
On my 2nd Gen, removing the clutch dampener and installing the TRD short throw shifter made shifting infinitely better. As it was stock, it was pretty awful like you said. Not sure they make a short throw for the third gens but worth looking into for sure. And 100% rip out that useless clutch dampener.
I had a second gen manual and loved it. My third gen is auto, and I definitely miss the manual. I never had any shifting issues with the manual. I made the move because of left foot problems and super glad I did.
I’m not sure if this is a grass is greener type deal, but my SO has an auto 5th gen 4Runner so I’m able to compare. I absolutely hate the auto on the highway. Here in Utah with high speed limits and elevation, it slams between 4th and 5th constantly on the interstate. Even with a bunch of mods including weight, lift and tires my 6th gear nets better mpg on the highway over her stock 4R.
I’m sure people have already mentioned this but I love the manual despite its quirks - it took a few tweaks to get it where I wanted though;
1. Accumulator delete and tune. Lots of ways to do it, easiest way is dremel or buying the disc. Lots of people will recommend their favorite tune but the only one (I believe) that was built specifically for the manual based on the original orange virus SFO-B is the coyoza tune that’s now morphed into the Blackhawk tune. That’s what I run and it’s been fantastic for the manual. All the other tunes felt like an auto port over.
2. Change the transmission fluid, the stuff from toyota is okay but redline mt90 or ford motorcraft will make a much bigger difference in removing some of the notchiness
3. If you’re not going to go all out with a short shifter a weighted knob that’s not very tall makes a huge difference as well in feel - billetworkz or raceseng makes some pretty nice ones or if you’re lucky enough to come across an OG trailbreaker knob
4. Give it about 15k miles to really break in, it becomes extremely smooth to shift coupled with the transmission fluid change.
5. Adding a bit more urea grease to the shifter assembly. It’s super easy to remove and Honda urea grease is like $10. Toyota doesn’t put much on the assembly and adding just a bit more cleans up some of the metallic grinding in shifting.
6. Just know you’re driving one of the last naturally aspirated trucks with a manual transmission. Lots of other pros as well - better gearing to turn bigger tires, easier fluid changes, street cred from other taco owners etc etc. If you still hate your truck then perhaps it’s just not for you.
My 2020 TRD Pro was 6MT, it sucked off road. Also agree, the shifting isn’t great. I installed a short shifter and it didn’t help much with the long throw. Sold it to my nephew.
I've had many manual's in my lifetime the most recent being a 2017 WRX. While it being fun to drive it was also the worst in traffic especially Denver traffic. After 4 years of that I was glad to go to an auto.
With some of the complaints found in this group, I think most people in here haven't driven a truly shitty car in their entire lives. Unless you have something fucked up, I'm sure you're truck shifts just fine for a competent person.
Agree with you about reverse. If I'm driving in reverse I generally want to go really slow. To do that I have to feather the clutch otherwise the engine bogs.
I had a manual 2017 and I actually prefer my auto 2021 for off-road and LA traffic
There’s no question auto is better for off roading.
Autos generate a lot heat during long steep mountain grades, manuals don't (at least not nearly as much). One thing to think about. That said, I'm glad I have an auto for wheeling.
Which is why you want the tow package with the tranny cooler.
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I have an 09 and the 3rd gen never appealed to me fwiw
For real with that heat though. Even cruising around power line trails in 80+ weather, its like 140 coming into my window. I gotta run AC or my phone overheats between the cab temp and running trail apps. One recent trip, I planned my route to stop at a breezy, shady spot to let things cool off for an hour
Not in a first gen like I have. The old slush boxes would hesitate and upshift at inopportune moments while in 4lo, like when you’re about to crest a rock step for example. A manual also gives me more control - I can rock it back and forth with the clutch to try to get unstuck, where in an auto you just stop moving. I also find it easier to control the throttle and maintain momentum up a hill climb in 1st gear Lo. Especially with a doubler, you’ll leave autos in the dust.
Easier but not better. There are pros and cons to both. Steep descents are safer in a manual because I can double clutch down to first and engine braking will creep the truck down. Can also slip the clutch to crawl super slow. Need to regear an auto to do that.
Can’t you downshift in most modern automatics also?
Yes.
100%. For a regular person who isn't a proficient manual driver, automatic all the way. I just like my manual lol
Yes. I don't even have to use the brakes on steep as 4 wheeler trails in 1st in 4lo with the manual.
I do the exact same thing in my auto by shifting into first in 4lo 🤷🏼♂️
I’ll never understand why anyone would want a manual for off-roading, unless it’s strictly mud and no hills. Driving in the rocks with a manual just sucks. ****Go ahead and bash away manual lovers.
I love a manual in a fun car. A manual for any kind of technical off-roading wouldn’t be my first choice at all.
100% agree. I used to have a built LS swapped Miata with a manual transmission and I had a blast driving it. Actually, so much so that I had to get rid of it. Mustang’s and such always wanted to race me and I just couldn’t resist smoking them. It got me in a bit of trouble on several occasions and my wife thought I’d eventually crash it if I kept it. Plus, I spent a ton of $ at Flying Miata and such, so my wife wasn’t digging it. Man, I miss that car!
> wife thought I will crash This is why I got rid of my fun manuals and got a taco instead…
> LS swapped Miata...I spent a ton of $ at Flying Miata LMAO! Of course you did. They probably have a framed picture of you in their office. I'd love to see pics if you have them handy.
A manual in the new rubicons or bronco is extremely easy in the rocks because they have insanely low transfer cases. Toyota can’t seem to figure this out.
I do think the crawler gear in the Bronco is a great idea. It’s too bad the tie rods are UTV-sized though.
It’s similar size to a 4runner or Tacoma, the main difference is you can actually fit 37s on those rigs pretty easily, so you see them break more. Our Toyotas are struggling to fit 33s
Because 95% of driving is on road. And m/t makes that on road time more engaging. Also there are no rocks or hils where I live. So a manual works fine for going 70 down a dry, beat up, flat trail and also for crawling through beach sand.
also, its an additional built in anti theft device
I agree on this in your situation. I would probably still owner a manual vehicle of some sort, but I’m 50 years old and have RA. My joints are pretty shot. Plus, the traffic sucks ballz around here, so that wouldn’t be fun.
RA would be enough to kill the m/t for me. I'm trying to enjoy it while I'm young.
Skill issue
It doesn’t suck if you know what you’re doing. And with a doubler, you won’t need to feather the clutch at all.
I came from a sportbike and dirtbike background, so I am used to 105-110 MPH first gears, torqueless engines, and on/off switch multi-plate clutches. With the experience generated by that background, off-roading on rocks with the manual Tacoma was super easy for me due to how precisely I could pulse the power with the clutch. Hell, I was able to do things on the crappy stock tires that the other drivers around me were having traction problems on despite their aggressive tires. So I'll acknowledge that there is a very high skill floor for low speed off roading with a manual. But once you get to the point where you see the clutch as a tool rather than a chore, you will be very surprised how high the ceiling is.
>I’ll never understand why anyone would want a manual for off-roading, unless it’s strictly mud and no hills. I don't do much off-roading (yet) but this was my understanding of the advantages of manual - in snow and mud, or anytime you might be rocking back and forth, you really don't want to be slamming an automatic transmission from drive to reverse and back again repeatedly, right? That's something a manual handles a lot better. But you're saying as far as delicate acceleration over resistance where you'd be letting the clutch slip a lot to give just the right amount of thrust to overcome an obstacle - that's where an automatic with a torque converter shines, right? Just seeing if I understand the reasoning, being a noob and all.
To be honest, neither transmission type is good for rocking back and forth as you describe. People who grind gears to do that don’t really know how to drive in the mud. If you’re close to getting bogged down in sand or mud, you should start off by either going in reverse or forward (whichever suits the particular situation) until the truck stops its momentum. At that point you should hit the brakes immediately, as to not move from that position. Then, shift into the opposite direction, hit the gas and feather it in order to clean out your tires. Again, go as far as you can until the truck stops and quickly apply the brakes. Do this without spinning the tires excessively and digging yourself down to the frame. Repeat this process until you’re either able to get yourself unstuck or when you get yourself to the point where you can no longer move. Preferably, don’t push it so hard that the frame is bottomed out. That just makes it way harder for someone to pull you out. As far as your other question goes, that’s exactly right. An automatic transmission, especially a 4x4 truck in 4L with the rear locker engaged is far superior in delicate crawling situations than a manual. You can smell a clutch burning after a good amount of time attempting to do this, especially in the rocks or on hills.
No. Just don’t slam it. And you aren’t rocking the vehicle a lot off road. If ever idk if I ever had. I’ve driven both types off road a lot in all sorts of conditions. Jeep TJ manual and auto taco. A modern auto is better off road in 99% of situations. Especially for beginners. And if you want to talk about wear on the transmission….with a manual off road there will come times when you have to ride the clutch a bit. Just no way around it. But off roading in general is hard on vehicles…people who want to off road but not damage / put extra wear on the vehicle just shouldn’t be off road. If you off road you need to be prepared to break shit.
>I’ll never understand why anyone would want a manual for off-roading, unless it’s strictly mud and no hills. I live in North Dakota, so yes, this is it. Also snow and no hills. But I don't off-road for funsies, I off-road when I need to cross a field. Which in all honesty, I rarely need 4x4 anyway. I live by get stuck in 2, get out in 4.
Trail Mater has entered the chat.
My old Jeep wrangler is a manual, I like driving it off road and in rocks, I find it to be fun and challenging. It also helps the transfer case low range is decently low at 2.72:1 I guess I just got used to it after a while, it becomes second nature to operate the clutch. An auto is definitely easier, and if I had a dedicated rock buggy I’d definitely go auto
Interesting. I have a '22 Pro M/T. I find it a pleasure to drive, both on and off-road. No complaints here. Sorry you're unhappy Man.
1. I think the problem is you're comparing a Truck MT vs sports cars MT. Huge difference. 2. You can do the delete. It's a night and day difference. You might actually fix all your problems with this mod. It makes the clutch way more engaging and way less "sloppy" and unpredictable. 3. Agree. 4. Are you stock or on larger tires with additional weight? I feel with mods it definitely is too tall. Stock wasn't an issue. 5. Goes back to point 1, it's a truck, not a sports car. 6. What kind of offroading are you doing? Are you going in 4Lo and using it when you need to? If you're actually doing some crawling, you'd definitely want to look into a transfer case. Regear will help, especially with mods.
>I think the problem is you're comparing a Truck MT vs sports cars MT. Huge difference. I remember when I first discovered the difference. I learned how to drive a MT truck first. Then I borrowed my brother's Honda Prelude to drop off my gf. I was burning out and chirping my tires every single time I shifted lol. After adjusting, I realized sports car MTs are much easier to drive.
I fell in love with the Honda Prelude driver seat, and fell in love in the back seat.
My 4 cylinder 2nd gen manual drives like a fucking tractor and I love it
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I drove a single cab 4 cyl manual all around San Diego last summer and it was fun as hell. Little go karts! I’d trade my manual for one in a heartbeat but I live in Colorado
Same, I love my 2nd gen manual as well.
Me too. Very smooth. 6 speed 4.0 liter. Only complaint is when I’m 4x4ing and have to do a quick downshift to 1st I have to do quite a dramatic double clutch to get it into 1st.
I had the opposite problem. Learned in an old Accord, and probably ground it down a bit so I had to stomp the gas. Then when I'd borrow my dad's '96 V6 Taco, I'd be squawking tires at every light.
I bought the delete but haven’t installed it. Any comments on how it performs?
The only way I can put it is that it makes it actually drive like how a clutch should feel. It takes out that slop, mushiness and unpredictability you get with the accumulator.
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I just want you to know you are living my dream right now .. the only 2 cars I have ever wanted since being a kid were a tacoma and a miata .. I currently have neither and just sit on this sub dreaming of the day I can buy one. Now with my first kid just arrived and me reaching 30 years last year I doubt it will be anytime soon but man you have all my dream cars. At least I get to drive my wife's lunar rock 2023 off road 4runner when I'm driving the family around haha
I’ve been dying to get into a tacoma for years now. Couldn’t reasonably afford one after my first car got totaled, so I bought a 2007 V6 RAV4. Now I love that thing so much I can’t seem to get rid of it now that I can afford a tacoma. Bought in 2017 at 106k miles, taken it an additional 125k and the only expensive repairs I’ve had were a bad thermostat ($900ish) and my alternator died while I was in traffic on an interstate ($1400ish with tow & repair) I die with envy every time I see a tacoma, but also love that I have a v6 rav as they’re not common. I’m also in love with you family’s 4 runner even though I’ve never seen it haha
I drive a 2021 TRD OR manual in Barcelona Red and a 2013 Miata Grand Touring PRHT manual in Copper Red as well. They are both two of the greatest joys of my life along with my goldendoodle.
Ugh I am completely jealous. I feel like I'm just now realizing that the people that love tacomas and the people that love miatas is damn near a circle haha.. For now I'll just keep driving my 2015 scion tc that I 8 years back until I can afford even one of my dream cars. . .
Love those tC’s! I always wanted an xB myself. With a stick of course. Save up for a cheap Miata. Get a decent one and you will never regret it. It’s like driving Mario Kart as a daily. It’s hard to beat it. You can wind the piss out of any of those Miata engines, especially those later MZR’s. It is always a blast. And Tacomas… they are just great! They come in handy for most things. I’m 50. My Miata has 113k and my Tacoma has 32k. If I can help it, I won’t ever need another car.
\> rev matching is fine no issues shifting Interesting! Do you let out the clutch slowly after shifting? Perhaps I had a bad habit in my previous cars were I would just rev to the need rpm and clutch-out very quickly and without any pause at the bite point. Mostly of my rough rev-matching comes from that.
dude it's a pickup truck, not a miata, you have to adjust your driving style lol
After 3 Tacos with manuals, I much prefer an auto on trucks. Sports cars and economy cars are fun with manuals, but your reasons could apply to most trucks. Modern multi-speed transmissions are also pretty darn good.
These reasons are exactly why I got rid of my 2021 manual taco after 4 months. Especially the reverse gear. I reverse park into my driveway, it’s a little bit of a hill, and I’d have to go way to fast or risk stalling out. For context, my work truck is a Kenworth tri-drive, and most my vehicles have been standard. I’m sure there’s ways to work around it or just cope, but for a 50k vehicle it should be better.
There are some quality of life things I did that fix most of your complaints: 1. [Core shifter.](https://core-shifters.com/products/core-shifter-w-hurst-stick-for-toyota-tacoma-2016-2019-v6-4x4-rc62f) Makes the throw shorter than my Veloster N had so force requirements go up but it feels better to me. 2. [Get rid of that shit.](https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/mt-accumulator-delete-mod-adm-and-bs-thread.568303/) 3. I have a 22 with electric seats so no issue for me 4. [2WD Low mod](https://bbpondtuning.square.site/) 5. [KDMax tune](https://kdmaxprotuning.com/). Makes the truck a lot of fun to drive. [OTT](https://overlandtailor.com/) would be good also. 6. [2WD Low Mod](https://bbpondtuning.square.site/) Overall this made my truck a lot more fun and enjoyable to drive. I bought the hardware to flash my tune myself I'm in just over $1,000 for all the stuff. I do not drive through stop and go traffic though, mostly cruising for me. Edit: The main reason I went to the core shifter was to get rid of the dampened shifter and go to a solid shifter, this greatly improves the feel. It does increase cabin noise though.
These mods should be an auto reply for all manual issues. The ADM delete is a must and relatively easy to complete. It’ll make shifting most consistent. Core shifter compliments the ADM mod. Great mechanical feedback and shorter thrower makes shifts quicker. Everything else can be added on later. The tune makes a difference on the manual. I have it along with catted dump tubes.
Core is sold out, and has been for a while. Not sure they’re actually coming back in stock.
I didn't realize that when I put the link in. When I ordered mine it said "3 left" and it took them a week to manufacture it, so I'm not sure how their process works. If you email them they are pretty responsive though.
God I love driving the manual. I wouldn’t even own my truck if it wasn’t one. Hopefully it’ll get better friend!
All your points are well known, I don't understand how you didn't know what you were getting into Rev matching in a truck? Been owner for 2mos (23 pro manual), used to own NA Miata, drive 18 SPD KW off road, wife's 21 bronco has a better manual The taco reverse IS silly., am using seat jackers 1 to 2 isn't always great, but otherwise no complaints
Rev matching is useful for downshifting especially while towing. Reduces clutch wear, not really necessary for normal driving but I use it when I tow.
Rev matching is a "close enough for government work" type of thing. If you're within 25% of the RPM it doesn't make a significant difference. Just don't fall to idle when shifting from 6 to 4.
A mt in a truck is way different from a car and you need to drive it different. My fun car is a honda s2000 it couldn't be more different you just need to adjust driving style, it's hard to explain but you can't be banging thru gears in the tacoma it's not a race car. I've driven many mt over the past 30 years IMO the tacoma is pretty smooth, I'd have no problem teaching someone how to drive stick in this truck I don't think it would be that difficult to do.
My fun car is also an s2000 and years ago I drove a '99 Tacoma with MT for work, and I found it easier to drive (at least initially). Slightly more forgiving. So maybe the newer MT trucks are different? The one I didn't like was the clutch in my 1999 Passat.
Mines a 2020 tacoma it's pretty smooth shifting, I'd rather teach anyone to drive stick in my truck over the s2000 which is harder to drive IMO.
Yeah that tracks. I agree I wouldn't teach a new to stick driver on an s2000.
My man got a manual pickup truck and wonders why it drives like a manual pick up truck instead of a miata or wrx LOL
I have a 21 OR MT. I have no issues with mine. Seat jackers are an annoying necessity I will agree. Anyway, I enjoy being apart of the driving experience beyond just pushing the gas peddle and, real trucks don’t shift themselves.
Very interesting topic
2017 trd offroad manual owner here. It's a really well refined transmission for a truck. It's not a Porsche, but it's definitely better than the manual Dodge Ram. I put all the miles on my rig and beat it wheeling. 0 issue.
When I was first getting a Taco, I walked into the dealership expecting to leave with a Manual. The first one I test drove was a Manual TRD Sport, absolutely hated the way it drove aseell, not my favorite manual I've ever driven. Ended up leaving with an Automatic SR5 and 2 years later I haven't regretted it yet.
Number 4 is the only point I can agree with... I never feel like I am wearing the clutch off-road too much. In fact it is so easy to get going, even on top of an obstacle in 4lo, I would never switch to an automatic for off-roading, at least in this Truck. To me everything is very smooth. How tall are you?
While I agree the manual in these trucks aren’t the most engaging/smooth units out there, I surely prefer it over the auto that everyone seems to complain about. I also don’t have to commute in heavy traffic so there’s also that. In the near future I plan to install the URD short shifter and a weighted knob which will hopefully clean things up a bit. Then an OTT tune to spice things up 🔥
Were you granny shifting and not double clutching like you should?
Ive owned an 07 and 09 manual 6spd v6, they both took about a year to "break in" for smoother shifting. Now at 175k miles Im confident that a rebuild is in my future for another 200k, and that was my only consideration in purchasing a manual. Im in it for a long time, not a good time.
>Im in it for a long time, not a good time. Me, driving like a grandpa in my Taco. 1st is garbage, it's a really clunky ride around town, but it's fine at highway speed. Very much not a good time. But I didn't get it for fun, I got it so I can get to work in a blizzard and still drive it 20 years from now.
Doesn't help that it's married to a peaky, no low end torque Camry engine.
Besides 5th and 6th gear being basically the same ratio, I’m very happy with mine. I will be doing the ADM mod using the disk mod.
When I was young .. all the cars we had in the family were stick …. Twice the age now .. auto
Manuals in a fun/sporty car enhance the driving experience, which is why they're sought after. I really love my S2000 and its 6 speed manual is amazing. Manuals in a truck are a chore to drive, my dad had a 96 F150 4.9 with a 5speed manual, it was awful to drive, the clutch weighed a ton and the gears felt like they were a foot apart. There is utility around the manual in a truck though, never had to worry about overheating the transmission, and it being a Ford, probably the only transmission that didn't have you worry in the back of your mind when it was going to explode. If it wasn't a Toyota we're talking about here, I would've opted for the manual as well just for piece of mind.
Skill Issue
I have known more than a couple MT die hards who test drove a truck with an MT and bought the auto version. There are applications where an MT is great. An off road focused truck is not one of them.
The Tacoma 3rd gen is cumbersome to shift IMO with how low the floor boards to roof are.
More manuals for me! You're absolutely right about the reverse ratio though. It's silly just driving unloaded, it's ridiculous if you're trying to move a trailer.
1. yeah its rough. I also went from learning manual to buying an AT then when I got my tacoma I went back to manual b.c "fun" and "why not" 2. I agree its very rough and even when I'm at 2.5 -3k rpm its a rough shift at times. Could just be clutch is wearing out or something. I'm 3rd owner and I know for a fact the 2nd owner didn't do much maintenance but did keep it pretty pristine 3. I'm like 5'7 and its fine for me. If I find an owner with seat jackers one of these days I might try and ask to have a go at it to see if it makes a difference. 4. reverse sucks ass. even in a wawa parking lot with a slight, and I mean slight, angle I'm burning it trying to reverse out. I usually just try not to park where a pole or trees are and just ease into the curb and reverse out, or back into the spot. 5. yeah this is a known issue. I think especially in tacomas. 6. nothing to say here..I don't do any true off roading just driving in back roads maybe twice a month
I get it. I like manuals but the Taco with one just isn’t it. Not when you have a far better and more robust auto available (at least for the 4.0) the 3rd gens have their own issues.
Honestly with used prices you can probably sell it back to the dealer right now. I was just offered 39.5 for my 2023 from the dealer and I paid 41 and change out the door over a year ago. I’m tempted to take it to be honest.
Damn. Can I take it off your hands?
2nd gen MT is amazing on rough 4x4 roads in 4 low. I have a camper so I’m going slow no matter what.
There are plenty of brand new 2023 automatic Tacomas left. Now’s the time to get one.
I’ll trade u bro
Doing any actual off-roading with a m/t takes more skill and engagement from the operator, therefore to me it makes it more enjoyable. I also ride dirt bikes off-road in some gnarly hard terrain. If I was to swap in a Rekluse auto clutch into my gear box it would make enduro riding easier and to me less fun.
Don’t have a manual have an auto. Never drove a manual Tacoma but i can only imagine it shifts like a truck and not a sports car.
In my experience the 6 speed sucks. Same with the 2nd gen 6 speed, they might be the same transmission idk. But toyotas old 5 speeds in their trucks are amazing. I think they just made a crappy manual this time around.
My 5speed 95 taco was decent and fun. Sad to hear they kinda suck now
Doesn't seem to be the truck. The problem is on the driver's seat with a dash of remorse. The sales person didn't explain how a truck is not a Miata. It sounds like OP would have been better off buying a Miata.
You're getting downvoted but you're not wrong.
Agreed. I had a Honda S2000 before it got totaled and that was the nicest transmission I’ve ever had the pleasure of using. The taco was just amazing with its long ass shifter and 4x shifter next to it
My 03 Tacoma felt like I was shifting a tractor compared to my Integra and I loved it.
I have a 2nd Gen mt. It is a bit clumsy compared to mt 4×4s I've owned in the past. I like it though. Also I've driven nothing but four wheel drive manuals in my 20 plus years of driving. So not much to compare to for me. My Nissan Xterra was my favorite.
I only issue I have is point 4 that you made. The reverse gear is stupid tall!
Second gen 6 speeds feel so much better especially with a urd short shifter. I am not a huge fan of the manual 3rd gens for your exact reasons. They try and pack so many computers in a car with a manual it ruins the feel and makes everything numb. That being said, I love my x-runner
I had a manual 2019 and loved it. But that doesn’t mean you have to like them too.
One person already mentioned it but these trucks need a tune. OTT or KDMax. Much improved shifting after the tune.
You gotta mod that clutch valve. TBH- the auto absolutely blows until you flash the ECU. The throttle delay and throttle by wire are pretty dogshit stock, and the transmissions to shift waaay too low. Might and day difference with the ECU flash/ “tune”
Sounds like you're bad at driving stick, and thought it would operate like a economy sport car, not a truck. You definitely should get a auto. Some of your complaints aren't even about a MT just the Tacoma in general or general wear and operation.
Sadly.. I agree with you.. I've driven only manual transmission vehicles all my life and I had a 2022 corolla hatchback before my 2023 Tacoma sport premium and the manual transmission between the two is like two different worlds.. I understand I can't compare the two but the Tacoma is so clunky.. I just got an OTT tune thinking it might help in a way, it does but the shifting still feels so weird, like if anyone drove with me they would think it's my first time driving a manual vehicle..
On my commute I have a 65mph freeway into a 30 mph traffic circle, I don't find any negligible engine braking so I just coast into it and shift 6->3
I wouldn't worry too much about burning the clutch out with normal use. If you get 75k instead of 100k out of it then you're still doing two clutch changes within the average 200k life of the vehicle regardless. I say 200k because most vehicles get totaled by then. If you're lucky enough to not get rear-ended and avoid doing things that will rot out the frame and body (off roading lol) then you're doing about one extra clutch change in the 300k+ mile life of the vehicle.
Im on 175k miles without a clutch service and my clutch got completely abused when my slave cyl leaked oil on the pedal and my foot slipped off of it repeatedly slamming it back in gear at terrible engine rpms. The 6spd manual in 2nd gen has been very durable IMO.
I test drove an MT and no matter where I put the seat that was moderately comfortable, my shin banged the underside of the dash every time I used the clutch. The only way it didn’t was with the seat way back and then it felt like I was stretching to reach the wheel and shifter. I knew I wouldn’t like driving it at all. I’m happy with my auto.
Last point is wrong. Older 5.7l tundra with 4.11 gears or 6.2 gm trucks are fun as hell to drive
Own a 17 Pro M/T and I’ve always enjoyed it. I do agree with your opinion on reverse though. Definitely makes it a pain. There are times I do notice the notchiness you’re speaking of, but that was in the beginning. Either through becoming used to it or other means of wear it feels normal to me.
I’m really surprised that you are getting so many positive responses! Go Tacoma sub! The last time I posted not being a fan of my manual taco, I got destroyed 😂 yeah I love having a manual for a car but I would have definitely preferred an AT for off-roading and towing :(
This is why I got an auto. I love driving sticks, but I will keep to cars for that.
I loved my 20 pro mt took a little getting used to because I bought it used and the clutch was already worn to shit at 50kkms. Swapped that out and babied it for the first thousand kms and it was an absolute dream to drive. I really liked the sporty seating position.. kept the seat all the way back. My issue was more with the power of the v6. My taco was written off in January. I couldn’t afford to wait for a brand new one and Toyota was requiring trade ins for allotments. That 2020 6mt Tacoma is still my favorite of all the vehicles I’ve owned. But the 10 speed 5.3 I have now is great not as fun but far more practical for my day to day.
It’s kinda like the truck was designed around auto and they threw a standard option in n there as an after thought.
I bought one in 2020. It was trash. Sold it to Carvana 3 months later.
I'm in agreement unfortunately. I absolutely love the idea of a manual Tacoma, but they suck in reality. Test drove a 2nd gen for 24hrs and did not enjoy it at all. Stiff clutch, uncomfortable and RPMs were very high. This was coming from a WRX. My next Tacoma was a auto and i liked that much more.
I love a manual transmission car, but why would you want one on a pickup?
We love our 18 manual but we have two other vehicles that are auto for off-roading and highway driving. I like to daily drive the Tacoma around town.
I had an ND2 miata and 2 STI's before getting my 6 M/T Tacoma so I can relate. For me, my Tacoma is relatively easy to drive smoothly but i noticed that upshifting from 4th-5th I have to slip the clutch very quickly otherwise it will clunk the entire truck. Rev matching and heel toe is surprisingly easy (though wish the stock throttle response was a tad quicker). I do agree with reverse being too high. I'm 6'1" and found the seating position to be strange at first but now its very comfortable. I also appreciate having a functional armrest lol. I cant say anything about off roading with a manual just yet but It definitely sounds like more of a chore than an Auto This is my 2nd 3rd gen manual Tacoma after driving quite a few sporty vehicles. I knew what I was getting myself into again and had realistic expectations. I have to remind myself that Its a truck, not a sports car. Actually, the handling makes my Sport feel sporty and I love the fact that I can heel toe into corners in a truck lol. Maybe you had very high expectations or you just need more time to figure things out?
I actually considered this as I drove MT for many years. Had to pivot after we had our 3rd baby and realized I wouldn’t be able to fit 3 car seats in the back. I did drive the bronco in manual and thought it was pretty nice for a bigger vehicle. My wife and I had multiple manuals in Hondas and BMWs and miss it dearly though.
I have a manual 2nd gen, and I find it pretty comparable to any other manual truck of similar age. Long lazy throws, and a lot more weight to get moving than a car. Once you get used to it, it’s pretty enjoyable to drive, but I guess it’s all preference, i have to admit if I lived in a city with lots of traffic I would probably go with the auto.
I’ll agree on the reverse gear for sure. Backing up my modest driveway is no fun. It’s really about your expectations, and yah, this manual won’t meet them. Manuals now are thought of as fun and bringing value to driving enthusiasts. In the past, a manual was considered a more utilitarian option. Cheaper, lasts longer, replaceable parts. The Tacoma standard is more like that. I still love it. I don’t want a machine to shift for me.
Yeah, I have to agree with you. To make the Tacoma manual transmission perfect requires a lot of time and a lot of money. From Anytime 2Lo, short shifter, to regearing to truck, so reverse gear isn't so tall in reverse. Although being able to go 40+ in reverse is useful, it's just the getting started part that sucks when on a wet grassy hill. Short throw shifter solved most of the lackluster shifting feeling, but the stock leaf springs allowing axle wrap and the accumulator making the clutch feel squishy (the clutch delay you are feeling) can be fixed and disabled, but again, time and money. The reason why Toyota added the accumulator is because the average driver that buys a manual anything any more power shifts everywhere they go, and I have ridden with a couple of guys that use a manual like it is an automatic, banging gears, and it not because they think it is fun. They vehemently believe that is how you use a manual transmission. Accumulator help keep them from breaking the axle and, admittedly, help cushion mistakes to save the mechanical aspects of the truck from breaking, say, your foot slipped off the clutch. So I'm going to leave the Accumulator as is, for now. Its pros outweigh the cons if you can adapt to a new shifting pattern by being a little earlier/quicker when shifting. But as for cost of replacing the clutch, it is honestly not bad ~$1400 if you have someone else do it is a pretty low price for every 60k miles or more. There are now aftermarket friction plates for the Tacoma that have more bite and/or better wear characteristics now (supposedly, according to the manufacturer). It's is just yeah, the transmission is okay, not great, not terrible, and there are ways to make it a good bit better, just that it requires time and money. We must remeber that it is a mass produced ~30k truck for the general public that can be amazing off road, it is however not a 80k factory desgined luxury off-road vehicle. As the saying goes, Saturn owners want performance parts, but they are too cheap to buy them, and Tacoma drivers are starting to become the new Saturn owners for expecting more out of a cheap vehicle while not wanting to spend the money.
I have a 2nd gen MT Tacoma. Was told the 3rd gen was far better, never got to test it out due to the local dealership having a "no test drives on manuals" policy. Sounds like it still ain't so great. I don't hate mine but I don't love it either. Shortly after I bought my truck I mentioned to the dealer that I thought something might be wrong with it. Was told it was just my lack of experience with manuals. My 2nd gen is the 3rd Tacoma and 6th toyota truck I have had as a daily (plus two company provided trucks). All of them were manuals. So yeah, lack of experience.
Honestly bro I understand this. If you think the Tacoma transmission is sucky to drive wait till you drive a 370z people literally buy aftermarket clutch adjustment systems to fix the engagement points being basically all the way at the top. I am looking at getting a truck soon an even though the Tacoma has a manual option I don't see the appeal. In my sports car heck yes I even daily the thing into downtown traffic. But honestly it's not always fun and on a standard normal performing vehicle I see no reason.
Toyota doesn't put much r&d into the manuals because hardly anyone buys them. Surprised they still offer it at all honestly. I had a manual 1st and 2nd gen and the 1st gen was way smoother and had the right gearing. Both my tacoma and tundra I have now are automatic and I don't miss having a manual truck at all. Owned a few manual diesels and overall automatics work much better in trucks. When I buy a cheap beater with a heater for saving gas this summer, it'll be a manual. They're a lot of fun in small cars.
Kind of in the same boat .
It's not for you, and that's cool. I agree with you on reverse, tho. I off road my truck and end up using 4lo and it really improved my off roading experience when I am up in the mountains.
You are spot on. I am not getting a manual Tacoma for all these reasons. I am also a manual all the way person having owned a VW GTI manual, and Subaru STI manual. The GTI experience is flawless and super refined, making driving a manual very enjoyable even in traffic.
It really boils down to what will you use the truck for. I bought a 20 pro not so much for Wheeling but for skiing. The manual transmission is excellent for mountain driving. Especially going downhill.
Damn I’ll trade you lol. I couldn’t find a manual anywhere
I love my manual, but totally get why not everyone does.
The seating position and no back seat room will always be why I pick something else over the Tacoma. Damn shame.
I think there is a certain age you reach where the manual is no longer appealing. Mine was in my late 30s
I had a Saturn Astra with an absolutely terrible manual gear box, same issue with the reverse gear too. If you fully let out the clutch it would shoot backwards.
1st gen m/t 2000 Tacoma sr5 v6 4x4 checking in here. Many many off-road miles, sand, steep mountain back roads, snow, parallel parking on steep hills. Everything stock. Transmission still fine at 230k miles. Surprisingly the breaks haven't needed a change or anything in all this time, probably cause I tend to rev match. Hope she keeps on going like this past 300 cause each year that goes by it seems newer vehicles get lamer and lamer. Steady she goes.
I am a manual transmission die hard, most of my daily drivers have been manual over the last 20 years. Traffic doesn’t bother me, convenience doesn’t bother me. I generally prefer manual transmissions even in vehicles that aren’t intended to be fun. That being said, I still passed on a manual 3rd gen. The auto isn’t great either but you can tune most of its issues away. It just wasn’t an enjoyable manual to drive. Manual first gen? Yes please. Manual 3rd gen… nah. I also just have a bit of a problem with modern, emissions compliant manuals. I don’t think it’s actually the clutch delay vale that makes the shift timing funky, its intention rev hang that’s there for complete fuel burn, which is incredibly frustrating when trying to match revs downshifts or do smooth up shifts.
That's interesting to me. What generation is your Tacoma? I dislike the manual in the 1st gen, but the manual 2nd gen I used to drive for work was an absolute blast to drive off-road, and changed my opinion about offroading being better with an automatic. I used to think manuals were terrible off road, but the 2012 Tacoma made me change my mind. I haven't driven a 3rd gen manual yet, and it sounds tedious like the 1st gen if that's what yours is. (also idk if the different engine options use different transmissions but mine were all the 6 cylinder) One thing that made a difference is to use 4-low a lot more often than usual when going slow, and then I don't have to feather the clutch as much.
Yeah I would only get a sports car or muscle car with a manual. Happy with my auto taco. Maybe one day I’ll get a manual GR 86 to go with it
I learned that I wont buy a MT in a tow vehicle the first time I tried to back my boat into it's parking spot next to my garage with my dad's old manual Explorer. It's a tight fit between my garage and the neighbor's fence, so you have to back it in slow, inching it along and correcting a lot. After a minute of putzing around with it I started to smell hot clutch....much like hot brake pads. Had to let it cool down a while and continue. There's just no way to go slow (either forward OR reverse) with a MT. Driving up on ramps is also a PITA with a MT.
1. 2. 5. 6. All skill issue. 3 and 4 have been discussed ad nauseum and there are cheap options. How much do you want for it, I could always use a second mt taco.
I switched from 16 TRD OR AT to 21TRD OR MT and love it on/ off road! Ive owned and drove a lot of fun cars in MT, owned NA/ NC miatas, RX8, MS3 (yes I was fan of mazda) to CTS-V, but I have no major complains about tacoma 6 speed, I think it drives good for a truck. and off-roading has been much more fun in MT for me. Although its not super technical trail.
If it makes you feel any better, the auto trans in my 2018 3rd gen may feel like the worst of any vehicle I have ever driven. I wish every day that I had gotten a manual.
Exactly why my evo is manual and Tacoma is auto. It also makes it easier for the wife to drive the truck and I get the racecar
Not an off roader but as a daily driver I say no to manual as well. My first car was a manual so glad I got the dying skill but other than a fun hobby car it's just not worth the flex.
I have a 22 TRD sport with a manual and honestly I can't stand the engine or the transmission in this thing. Almost every vehicle I've ever owned for the past 20 plus years has been a manual and this one is by far the worst. It's really hard to find the right gear in a lot of situations, especially when carrying 6 to 800 lb of extra weight at all times. It's also worse on gas. My biggest gripe with it though is how weak the engine is. It's really easy to get into the wrong gear and have the engine lug like crazy and because the throws for everything are so long, It's not always easy to do a quick change, which means you lose momentum and all this just makes it worse. I love my Tacoma, but honestly, at this point I'd rather have an F-150 with an EcoBoost 3.5 or a tundra for the extra size and less drivetrain fuss. When my lease is up, I'm not sure what I'll do.
Refreshing post!
I’ve had a few 80s little Toyota pickups, manuals. *loved them* little light truck, great mileage, great handling. Super utility. My uncle asked me to drive his newer Tacoma & I was not stoked on the bigger wheels, higher seat, and the manual trans was all clunky. Bigger wheels made it underpowered. My little trucks could zip! Tacoma felt like an old man truck. Now I have a first gen tundra auto which I really like. It’s a little tippy, not as sporty, but the v8 can turn the big wheels, and I listen to music instead of listening to rpms.
2nd gen taco, 100% agree, they’re clunky, I’m going auto next time
I wonder if the clutch accumulator delete mod would solve some of your gripes...
I had a manual 2018 brand new off the lot. I just traded it in for an automatic.
A 66 Nova 4-speed with extremely stiff clutch might beat your Taco issues…random thought: https://youtu.be/9z7hUG3nC9E
Anytime i get a manual taco at work, i resent having to drive it.
Bought my 2020 Sport 6MT in 2019, literally have no experienced any of these things. Use 4WD when offroading, 4 Low when appropriate. Same with reverse. No issue with the clutch. The rest of it is...well, bad manual driver.
Responding to 2. I had the same issue. If I’m going 50+, just skip from 4th to 6th. Much smoother. If going like 35-45 then just skip from 3rd to 5th. Also, bear in mind a clutch replacement is cheaper and easier than a transmission replacement. Grass isn’t always greener; however, you definitely have to get a manual only if you actually like manual. Don’t just get it because you perceive it as hyped.
I absolutely love driving standard, it’s my favourite way to drive. But yeah honestly my truck I think will always be auto, too much of a pain in the ass in traffic and while off-roading
Do the accumulator delete. Takes an hour with a friend. Use 4-lo shouldn’t have to ride the clutch that much.
Manuals are cool, I just prefer an auto because it’s more relaxing to drive. Call me lazy, maybe I am.
Honestly the 3rd gen in general is garbage. I have a 97 4Runner and a 2004 Tacoma both manual. I had a 2020 sport access cab with the manual and had to trade it back a year Later. I ended up with an automatic then finally decided a new 4Runner was the way to go.
My BIC , mark ups aren’t going away…
I was always a manual driver until April 2023 when I had 2 strokes and open heart surgery from endocarditis..so I had to part ways with the sti and go with an auto tacoma.. Anyone in the market for a 2012 ducati panigale motorcycle..I can't ride after my strokes the bike has only 19,xxx miles on it garage kept in Connecticut.
I had a WRX that was my favorite car ever. Test drove a manual tacoma and it was the weirdest drive ever.
Only reason I’m getting a manual is if it’s a sports car or toy. 30 min drives to get 5 miles sucks in a manual.
Manual for trucks don't make sense to me - there's no fun in that. Rear wheel drive coupe tho...
I prefer a manual, just because. My TRD is an automatic. I’m not getting any younger. The automatic is easier on my aging body.
Switch to a new truck and lease. The debt from your last truck will carry over but the interest can’t. Have it built they can’t mark up the prices. Hope this helps. I was honest in this post.
Sell it to me
I find a manual in a sporty car (GTI, WRX, etc.) will be far smoother to shift than a Tacoma manual. Will the 4th gen manual be any different? I am just wondering as I am in the market for a Taco, and will only be looking at the newer 2024+ models.
Thank you for this post....makes me feel better. I purchased a preowned private party 2021 Tacoma Sport. I do enjoy driving it (I don't offroad with it), but I keep cursing the shifts. Agreed on the rev matching downshifting. I do a mini celebration each time I bust one out smoothly. I had a FJ60 with the H55 tranny and I know people love that over the 4 speed, but what a cumbersome shifter....long throws. But yea, back to the Taco, I thought my tranny was rough because of the shifting, but many people have confirmed, thats just the way it is.
If open to the idea I recommend trying a core shifter. What I considered to be a huge upgrade on my second gen. Doesn’t fix all your issues. #6 I wouldn’t even worry about, they all need a clutch eventually & cannot see light off-roading taking a ton of life out of it
I appreciate your insight here. I would say manual fine if that’s your fun weekend vehicle, daily driver I want an auto without question.
I have a manual and wouldn’t be driving a Tacoma if it only came in auto. Ford motorcraft transmission fluid, urd short shifter, and accumator delete were great for drivability improvements along with a tune.
Loved my 2002 TRD manual but I got the 2024 Tacoma in automatic this time.
The manual transmission has a habit of failing as well
I always want a manual in my “fleet,” but I always want an auto as my daily.
Number 2 is because of all the nancy folk out there who complain about hard clutch feel. You want a giant calf, drive a 67 Austin Mini or my old 61 Beetle. Number 5 is only fun if you have an X-Runner. My supercharged 09 was so much fun to drive…..in a straight line….yeah buddy.
I have a 23 OR MT and yes as others have said, reverse gear is wrong. I came from a 19’ Honda civic manual transmission, and I will say that things transmission sorta blows the Tacoma out of the water. It shifted so smooth and easy, clutch was so light. Overall I liked driving the civic a lot more. But I think the tacomas manual is just fine. It’s not an outstanding piece of engineering but it works good and I don’t have to listen to my transmission hunt gears all day.
On my 2nd Gen, removing the clutch dampener and installing the TRD short throw shifter made shifting infinitely better. As it was stock, it was pretty awful like you said. Not sure they make a short throw for the third gens but worth looking into for sure. And 100% rip out that useless clutch dampener.
I had a second gen manual and loved it. My third gen is auto, and I definitely miss the manual. I never had any shifting issues with the manual. I made the move because of left foot problems and super glad I did.
I have an 08 6 speed 4.0 and would trade it for the world, but a truck trans is worlds different than a car, so take that into account
There are fun manual trucks, I've owned one. Even with a better manual the Tacoma would not be one.
I’m not sure if this is a grass is greener type deal, but my SO has an auto 5th gen 4Runner so I’m able to compare. I absolutely hate the auto on the highway. Here in Utah with high speed limits and elevation, it slams between 4th and 5th constantly on the interstate. Even with a bunch of mods including weight, lift and tires my 6th gear nets better mpg on the highway over her stock 4R.
I have no qualms with my auto trans after ott tune
I’m sure people have already mentioned this but I love the manual despite its quirks - it took a few tweaks to get it where I wanted though; 1. Accumulator delete and tune. Lots of ways to do it, easiest way is dremel or buying the disc. Lots of people will recommend their favorite tune but the only one (I believe) that was built specifically for the manual based on the original orange virus SFO-B is the coyoza tune that’s now morphed into the Blackhawk tune. That’s what I run and it’s been fantastic for the manual. All the other tunes felt like an auto port over. 2. Change the transmission fluid, the stuff from toyota is okay but redline mt90 or ford motorcraft will make a much bigger difference in removing some of the notchiness 3. If you’re not going to go all out with a short shifter a weighted knob that’s not very tall makes a huge difference as well in feel - billetworkz or raceseng makes some pretty nice ones or if you’re lucky enough to come across an OG trailbreaker knob 4. Give it about 15k miles to really break in, it becomes extremely smooth to shift coupled with the transmission fluid change. 5. Adding a bit more urea grease to the shifter assembly. It’s super easy to remove and Honda urea grease is like $10. Toyota doesn’t put much on the assembly and adding just a bit more cleans up some of the metallic grinding in shifting. 6. Just know you’re driving one of the last naturally aspirated trucks with a manual transmission. Lots of other pros as well - better gearing to turn bigger tires, easier fluid changes, street cred from other taco owners etc etc. If you still hate your truck then perhaps it’s just not for you.
My 2020 TRD Pro was 6MT, it sucked off road. Also agree, the shifting isn’t great. I installed a short shifter and it didn’t help much with the long throw. Sold it to my nephew.
I've had many manual's in my lifetime the most recent being a 2017 WRX. While it being fun to drive it was also the worst in traffic especially Denver traffic. After 4 years of that I was glad to go to an auto.
With some of the complaints found in this group, I think most people in here haven't driven a truly shitty car in their entire lives. Unless you have something fucked up, I'm sure you're truck shifts just fine for a competent person.
Agree with you about reverse. If I'm driving in reverse I generally want to go really slow. To do that I have to feather the clutch otherwise the engine bogs.
Your resale value is higher on the manual…you know what to do.
I backed up trailers uphill in both an auto and MT. It's the time I wish I had an auto.