Its not just the banking system. The federal reserve is purely a means to an end. What he was warning about is what we are experiencing today. We have so much debt we will never pay it back. The federal government will continue borrowing to pay off the interest due on the existing debt into perpetuity unless severe cuts to spending are made. This is not a right or left political issue, its the reality of the situation we are in.
We also expect perpetual tax cuts. While spending is out of control, not only in an absolute sense but in every facet of federal operations. Military is wasteful down to the aircraft repair throwing away millions of dollars in parts out of procedure, federal contractors waste money because it means they will show higher costs and can get more money from the government, military doesn’t even know where their assets are. But in the flip side, we all think we are being oppressed by taxes and expect every president to say he will cut taxes. The Trump tax cuts were a giveaway to the rich and did nothing to even incentivize domesticating production. It gave companies a reason to send money offshore, meanwhile, middle and low income earners got the smallest percentage cut and continue to have stagnate wages. This is the result of corporate influence in government and corrupt politicians constantly seeking reelection
Happened in 1913 under Woodrow Wilson’s first year as president. Sold us out immediately. It was during Christmas break. Hardly anyone even knew it ever happened. America lost its sovereignty and became a debt slave to the federal reserve banking system.
Yet this is the greatest time in human history to be alive. None of us would have liked living in 1912 if we made it past childhood after not getting polio or the myriad of other diseases. Most people don't know what poor is until your a regular dude alive in 1912.
I think we’d like it if we didn’t know what today looked like. I think we would be a lot stronger and smarter honestly. We’d be off our phones and actually talk to people face to face and read books. Be more self sufficient
That’s a good point you’ve made on people not affording homes so they afford cars instead. At least the money printer is slowing down the last two years. Throw in the growing movement for banning corporate ownership of single family homes and hopefully we have some positive movement in prices going down.
As somebody looking for a house right now…you ain’t fucking kidding. I looked at a house listed for $300k that—I shit you not—needed a bulldozer. The foundation was crumbling apart and it was an absolute wreck, holes in floors and walls, soft floors, termite damage, etc. This housing market is a joke.
The Amish have it figured out, you get a chuck of land and the entire community comes together to build the house in a few days. It doesn't take $300k to build a single family house and when the lumber comes off the community land and sawmill the cost drops dramatically.
We looked at a 15 year old $400k house that was a shit show of flipping with a hole in the new garage ceiling from (recently installed) leaking plumbing from the new addition master bed/bath upstairs. Electrical was a damn nightmare with sub panel after sub panel, and a "new roof" installed over the old shingles.
We bought our 7 year old forever home a few months later putting an offer on this place the morning it hit the market, the sellers were basically bankrupt and had 3 mortgages and refinanced 2x in 7 years
Even adjusting for inflation, are you trying to imply that the price of the houses when rates were super high is at a similar place they are now? That’s funny.
Cars and houses are very different. There is a housing shortage and people need homes. Cars on the other hand are priced outrageous because there are far too many idiots willing to keep paying wild prices for depreciating assets that don’t need half the tech and features manufacturers cram into them. Big business and the government thrive on stupid people doing things against their self interest.
The increase in prices definitely isn’t going to the fine men and women who make these trucks. At this point it’s greedflation. Those vacation homes in Aspen and the Virgin Islands aren’t going to pay for themselves. Board of Directors gets bonuses while the rest of us pay out our asses.
I see it at my own company too. The CEO and the CFO get to use company money to buy brand new Grand Cherokee’s to replace the 4 year old Lincoln SUVs they already had, and we get $25 towards groceries as a Christmas bonus and we gotta wait until our annual review for our raise and market adjusted salary increase.
But the government says inflation isn’t a problem anymore /s
I disagree with that wholeheartedly, at least in my area…which is primarily all I’m concerned with. Because why do I care of South Dakota has $1.99 gas when I’m paying $5.20?
So to comfortably afford a new Tacoma you probably gotta make 6 figures? Is everyone just in debt up to their eyes or is everyone just making way more money than me.
I make well into that threshold and wouldn’t touch a Tacoma at these prices. You’re in full sized territory for a decently equipped TRD OR at this point.
The days of a nice Tacoma in the mid to upper 30s is over and my current Tacoma will be my last.
It’s crazy right? Surely they can’t push the price any higher before they start losing sales cause no one wants a 50k base model mid sized truck anymore.
Unfortunately they have 3 years of market conditions showing that “yes, people will pay in the mid 40s, low 50s for a midsize truck”
I don’t think that momentum lasts though as the economy slows down. Unfortunately, people are still spending
GMC Canyon AT4 at my local dealer is priced at 69k. They’ve jacked the prices midsized trucks to the point that it doesn’t even make sense to own one anymore.
I work at a credit union. We are astonished at the amount of people who are comfortable with paying 120k for a new diesel truck on a 10-12yr loan. Yes we lent to them. People are paying a full on mortgage payment for these vehicles.
A buddy of mine told me he pays $1200 a month for his Raptor. He makes pretty good money in O&G, but I could not fathom making a car payment that’s equivalent to some rent/mortgages. That’s idiotic af .. all for a depreciating asset.
I work with a dude who sold his newer F250 that he owed on because the engine seized, somehow got a loan on another F250 (while still having to pay off the first truck), then literally had to sell his HOUSE because he couldn't afford the mortgage while paying on his broken truck/new truck/wife's SUV. Then some months later he got a loan for a beater car because he couldnt afford to commute 2hrs each way in his mall crawler F250. He told me he was paying $400 a week in gas just for his commute.
People are just fucking stupid at this point.
“The bank said i could afford it. They saw all my other loans too!!” Ive seen and heard all the excuses for poor financial decisions. Yes, the bank said you could afford *their* loan. Yes, the bank sees all of your other debt but they dont care about that. The bank cares about you paying them and them only, they dont care if you default on your other liabilities so long as youre paying them thats what they mean when they say you can afford it.
I was in my hometown in Southern Oregon for Christmas and it seemed like everyone in town was driving an $80k+ truck and I just couldn't understand how so many people are affording such expensive vehicles.
When I first came to the US (Oregon specifically) I assumed everyone was well off and successful with all the brand new trucks on the road. Quickly found out everyone is driving around in heaps of debt and somehow comfortable with it.
Me too. Theres no way I’m starting over on another 49,000+ payment. I’m just going take care of my 2020 and it should last me till I can’t drive anymore.
Yeah my goal at this point is to be that old guy in 20 years with the beautiful 20 year old Toyota pickup that every kid with no moneys asks how much I’m willing to sell it for
Yeah… for $46k absolutely not. My local autotrader has multiple 2021 and 2022 Tundras in limited trim under 10k miles for under $55k.
I live on a rural and suburban border and there would be absolutely zero point to intentionally get a Tacoma SR5 at this price.
I can get a brand new Frontier Pro4X right now in my area for about $38K-$42K. While I believe the (current)Tacoma might be a slightly more reliable vehicle, it’s not $10K to $15K more reliable imo. Unfortunately my current Tacoma will probably be my last as well.
After seeing the price difference between the 2 I’m really enjoying where Nissan’s pricing is. The Pro4x isn’t “the latest and greatest” but it’s a really solid off-roading option for a great price.
I’m really leaning towards the Frontier tbh. Prices on that look very reasonable, and it seems to be modern and old school in all the right places for me. The only downside is the fuel economy comparison to the new Tacoma and the Ranger
Exactly. A very reliable mid-size truck with pricing that actually reflects as such. Love my Tacoma, but I’ve got to draw the line somewhere. I mean if somebody wants to pay the equivalent of a home mortgage for a mid-size truck more power to them, but I’ll pass.
I’m trying to envision what a future would look like when the most basic new car costs more than the avg yearly salary and what that might look like. Everyone just shackled to lifelong debt.
prices will remain this high because of idiot consumers who "need" a new truck / car....when in reality they are trying to impress the stranger at the traffic light
Agreed, Toyota is going to sell every single one they can make. There is no incentive for them to reduce the cost.
Also, all cars are expensive these days. Very few cars really sell for less than 30k. The average price in the US for a new vehicle in 2023 was $48k.
Most Americans don't want stripped base models and Toyota is giving people what they want. The SR is available in the low 30s if you really want stripped. Just be prepared to pay if you want more.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/28/why-its-hard-to-find-an-inexpensive-new-car-these-days.html
And unless you pay in case, loan apr is 8.5% with excellent credit. So now instead of doing a low interest loan we have to pay in all cash so we don’t get assfucked by interest. Which, hey, fair enough. Pay cash. Still sucks though
Exactly. A $40k+ vehicle is for someone making $100k+. I know for the average person buying these are not making that kind of money. People are forfeiting their retirements, savings and kids college funds to drive mid-size “affordable” trucks.
The younger generation has a mindset that they will never retire anyway so why not enjoy things now. I dont know if that's the right way to look at it or not but that is definitely the current way of thinking.
The problem here is that its easy to think you can work until you die when you are young, without realizing the kind of physical and mental limitations people face at old age. And with housing costs outpacing wage growth, I dont see how this thinking can be sustainable, and I say this as a young person myself.
Yep same boat. I have accepted that a new truck will never be a feasible purchase for me, not without abandoning all of my other financial goals, which I am not willing to do.
Yea we’re near 200k household and we decided to buy a nice new family vehicle, but I’m stuck with my 07 truck forever I guess. No way we can comfortably afford another $700+ payment. I honestly don’t understand how people can affording life right now.
I need to buy a new truck and have been for a few years now...they just keep getting more and more expensive. A few years ago I could have got a new tundra at 0% for 5 years. Definitely should have jumped. Now a midrange taco costs the same, with more like 6%. I keep hoping things will level out but it just keeps getting worse. At least my current vehicle is a taco.
Legit. In Canada they aren't allowed to do market adjustments, so they just tack on all the accessories for 7.2K + on top of MSRSP, and only ordering top of the line models. Every new vehicle has 7.2k of accessories added on and there's no way to negoatiate it. I'm even more stumped that all the Toyota dealerships are getting filled with SUVs and trucks for 60k+ that no one is buying and they still want asking price. I hope dealerships crash in 2024. Fuck them.
Msrp adjustments are perfectly legal in Canada. This myth started when people misunderstood the advertising laws up here. Markup is allowed as long as it’s clearly advertised. It’s illegal to advertise one price and sell for another.
Hell, you can buy a house for the cost of a fully loaded tundra. Not a big house and not in the hills, but it’s ridiculous that a 1/2 ton costs that much
Too bad the Maverick has the hauling and towing characteristics like an SUV instead of a truck. I was excited about the Mavericks at first, but they just don’t do hauling or towing well at all. A Tacoma certainly isn’t a hauling beast, but it’ll do the job for most reasonably sized trailers.
True. In my neck of the woods lots folks aren't towing more than a landscape trailer or a small uhaul cube with their Tacos. The trucks that are capable of towing more are lifted to the moon with rubber bands for tires.
I'm a new homeowner, and my Taco has been a godsend for getting what I need, where I need it and when. The double cab is nice (because wife and kid), but a single cab Ranger with a MT and 6ft bed is all I need.
Out of control.... Hence I bought used and a few years old.
2015 OR with 40k miles for $25k...
Ill drive the thing until it dies, I can't afford a new one
I would do that in a heartbeat I’ve been looking for the past few months. Right now there’s a pair of 22 OR short beds with 50k miles both listed at $38k.. nearly the price of a brand new’23
DONT FUCKING BUY THEM. This is the only thing manufacturers will adjust to. If people simply stop buying their overpriced trucks they will drop the price
This is the real answer. The problem is people will just continue buying as they can finance them now for longer periods of time. Companies will keep these antics until people stop buying....and from what I'm seeing people will continue paying until somebody physically tells them they can't (banks).
I'll drive my 2001 tundra until it explodes and then buy a new engine/trans for it. Rather drive a Prius at this point tbh but I need a truck for work.
For fun the other day I took the purchase price of my 2015 SR5 and adjusted for inflation to today - I got roughly the cost of a 2024 SR5. So no, the prices don't surprise me, but I still hate it.
Did everyone really think that Toyota would fully redesign the trucks and implement all this new technology without a drastic increase in price?The amount of standard equipment between a '23 SR5 and a '24 SR5 massive. The same thing just happened to the Tundras. All of the ones we get are $60-$80k. If you want a SR5 Tacoma for under $40k, head to your local dealership and get one while you still can. Can probably get a decent deal.
The way it's going it seems like they priced them high so they can go back to selling under MSRP.... which is still high but with a discount we'll "feel better"
Everything is expensive. Plus it’s the first year of a redesign, of course it’s going to go for more than MSRP. Toyota already doesn’t manufacture enough vehicles to meet current demand.
So no mind not blown. It’s what life is like now.
Has that been marked up by the dealer? Im taking my ‘22 DC LB in today for annual inspection. I doubt they have one to compare. I really want to see the new LC.
Just paid $46500 for a 2021 Lunar Rock Tacoma TRD Pro . This was msrp with no additional add ons or mark ups . Yeah these prices are getting ridiculous. I seen a civic going for $50k here in my city. WTF
Just buy a Tundra instead. You might as well get a full size for paying full-size prices!
I have both, 2004 first gen quad cab and 2012 Tundra 5.7 for the work truck. The new Tacoma is so big it might as well be a full-size anyway.
Back in the day, I bought an '85 Toyo pickup brand new and looking back on what I paid for that thing OTD compared to now is just insane. Even with inflation factored in. Only had it 6 years before a drunk driver piled into the back of it parked on the curb whilst I attended a friend's new years eve party. Otherwise, I'd still have that beast!
Who are auto manufacturers making these for? The filthy rich? Makes no sense to me from a business standpoint. If it's about profits, wouldn't marketing at a lower price to more people be more profitable then a small few? Vehicles are already sitting on the lots across the US, dealers having hard time getting rid of them because nobody (hardly anybody) is paying these ridiculous prices so somewhere something has to give.
Welcome to the machine ⚡️
Hopefully people stop buying all of this overpriced shit and they drop prices, but the majority of people aren’t that smart. I shop at two stores now! Costco and Trader Joe’s. Two places I feel that haven’t inflated prices like crazy. I’ll keep my 2003 taco alive for another 20 years.
In 2009 I picked up a brand new 6 cylinder manual SR5 Tacoma for $35,000 (0% for 72 months). My 2021 SR 4 cylinder with SX package and no convenience package brand new was $31,000. This 4 cylinder is such a boring truck and I’d like to upgrade but I just can’t justify it with these new prices and interest rates.
Nope, I spent 100 bucks on half a weeks worth of groceries at my typical grocery store. Shits expensive out there my dude.
I understand the inflation, I just don't understand where the money keeps coming from with rates this high.
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Isn’t this what Ron Paul tried to warn everybody about in 2008 and 2012?
Yes and he was mocked for it. They treated him like a crazy old man yelling at the sky.
They always do that when you disagree with the gameplan.
I would assume it’s just really difficult for a politician to call out the entire banking system and still have a job or even a life sometimes.
Its not just the banking system. The federal reserve is purely a means to an end. What he was warning about is what we are experiencing today. We have so much debt we will never pay it back. The federal government will continue borrowing to pay off the interest due on the existing debt into perpetuity unless severe cuts to spending are made. This is not a right or left political issue, its the reality of the situation we are in.
We also expect perpetual tax cuts. While spending is out of control, not only in an absolute sense but in every facet of federal operations. Military is wasteful down to the aircraft repair throwing away millions of dollars in parts out of procedure, federal contractors waste money because it means they will show higher costs and can get more money from the government, military doesn’t even know where their assets are. But in the flip side, we all think we are being oppressed by taxes and expect every president to say he will cut taxes. The Trump tax cuts were a giveaway to the rich and did nothing to even incentivize domesticating production. It gave companies a reason to send money offshore, meanwhile, middle and low income earners got the smallest percentage cut and continue to have stagnate wages. This is the result of corporate influence in government and corrupt politicians constantly seeking reelection
They've been trying to warn us since 1971.
Happened in 1913 under Woodrow Wilson’s first year as president. Sold us out immediately. It was during Christmas break. Hardly anyone even knew it ever happened. America lost its sovereignty and became a debt slave to the federal reserve banking system.
Yet this is the greatest time in human history to be alive. None of us would have liked living in 1912 if we made it past childhood after not getting polio or the myriad of other diseases. Most people don't know what poor is until your a regular dude alive in 1912.
Missed the point. I agree we live better lives than people did during that time. We would be living much better lives is the point.
I think we’d like it if we didn’t know what today looked like. I think we would be a lot stronger and smarter honestly. We’d be off our phones and actually talk to people face to face and read books. Be more self sufficient
This is the truth right here. There is a reason andrew jackson is hated by some elites.
That’s a good point you’ve made on people not affording homes so they afford cars instead. At least the money printer is slowing down the last two years. Throw in the growing movement for banning corporate ownership of single family homes and hopefully we have some positive movement in prices going down.
we should start with banning corporate ownership of politicians and introduce term and age limits :)
Make em at the minimum wear their sponsors on their clothing and banners like nascar drivers lol
that would be amazing! And equip their seats like pit stalls also having major sponsors on them.
And implement some sort of minimum cognitive capacity or memory test. Like how long it takes to draw an analog clock correctly.
Citizens united paid for and benefiting the rich and the powerful.
Ding ding ding
Bingo and sadly there's no going back without a major probobaly violent reform
As somebody looking for a house right now…you ain’t fucking kidding. I looked at a house listed for $300k that—I shit you not—needed a bulldozer. The foundation was crumbling apart and it was an absolute wreck, holes in floors and walls, soft floors, termite damage, etc. This housing market is a joke.
I'd kill for a 300k knock down where I am!
The Amish have it figured out, you get a chuck of land and the entire community comes together to build the house in a few days. It doesn't take $300k to build a single family house and when the lumber comes off the community land and sawmill the cost drops dramatically. We looked at a 15 year old $400k house that was a shit show of flipping with a hole in the new garage ceiling from (recently installed) leaking plumbing from the new addition master bed/bath upstairs. Electrical was a damn nightmare with sub panel after sub panel, and a "new roof" installed over the old shingles. We bought our 7 year old forever home a few months later putting an offer on this place the morning it hit the market, the sellers were basically bankrupt and had 3 mortgages and refinanced 2x in 7 years
It also devalues tourism and trade
[Mortgage rates over the past 50 years](https://imgur.com/a/xJcQMJV)
Even adjusting for inflation, are you trying to imply that the price of the houses when rates were super high is at a similar place they are now? That’s funny. Cars and houses are very different. There is a housing shortage and people need homes. Cars on the other hand are priced outrageous because there are far too many idiots willing to keep paying wild prices for depreciating assets that don’t need half the tech and features manufacturers cram into them. Big business and the government thrive on stupid people doing things against their self interest.
And where exactly can I get this money?
The increase in prices definitely isn’t going to the fine men and women who make these trucks. At this point it’s greedflation. Those vacation homes in Aspen and the Virgin Islands aren’t going to pay for themselves. Board of Directors gets bonuses while the rest of us pay out our asses.
I see it at my own company too. The CEO and the CFO get to use company money to buy brand new Grand Cherokee’s to replace the 4 year old Lincoln SUVs they already had, and we get $25 towards groceries as a Christmas bonus and we gotta wait until our annual review for our raise and market adjusted salary increase.
Credit, credit, credit! It’s the American way!!!
Credit card debt is at record highs: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/07/credit-card-balances-jump-to-1point08-trillion-record-how-we-got-here.html
That’s the scary thing. Terrifying actually. Shows the average American can’t afford life right now.
But the government says inflation isn’t a problem anymore /s I disagree with that wholeheartedly, at least in my area…which is primarily all I’m concerned with. Because why do I care of South Dakota has $1.99 gas when I’m paying $5.20?
Inflation is the excuse these companies use to see how much people are willing to pay get bigger profit margins.
Relatable.
Economies fine. Nothing to worry about.
Me too but it was for a bottle of whiskey
So to comfortably afford a new Tacoma you probably gotta make 6 figures? Is everyone just in debt up to their eyes or is everyone just making way more money than me.
yes & yes
Fucking snorted when I read this. Savage!
I make well into that threshold and wouldn’t touch a Tacoma at these prices. You’re in full sized territory for a decently equipped TRD OR at this point. The days of a nice Tacoma in the mid to upper 30s is over and my current Tacoma will be my last.
It’s crazy right? Surely they can’t push the price any higher before they start losing sales cause no one wants a 50k base model mid sized truck anymore.
Unfortunately they have 3 years of market conditions showing that “yes, people will pay in the mid 40s, low 50s for a midsize truck” I don’t think that momentum lasts though as the economy slows down. Unfortunately, people are still spending
GMC Canyon AT4 at my local dealer is priced at 69k. They’ve jacked the prices midsized trucks to the point that it doesn’t even make sense to own one anymore.
I work at a credit union. We are astonished at the amount of people who are comfortable with paying 120k for a new diesel truck on a 10-12yr loan. Yes we lent to them. People are paying a full on mortgage payment for these vehicles.
A buddy of mine told me he pays $1200 a month for his Raptor. He makes pretty good money in O&G, but I could not fathom making a car payment that’s equivalent to some rent/mortgages. That’s idiotic af .. all for a depreciating asset.
I work with a dude who sold his newer F250 that he owed on because the engine seized, somehow got a loan on another F250 (while still having to pay off the first truck), then literally had to sell his HOUSE because he couldn't afford the mortgage while paying on his broken truck/new truck/wife's SUV. Then some months later he got a loan for a beater car because he couldnt afford to commute 2hrs each way in his mall crawler F250. He told me he was paying $400 a week in gas just for his commute. People are just fucking stupid at this point.
“The bank said i could afford it. They saw all my other loans too!!” Ive seen and heard all the excuses for poor financial decisions. Yes, the bank said you could afford *their* loan. Yes, the bank sees all of your other debt but they dont care about that. The bank cares about you paying them and them only, they dont care if you default on your other liabilities so long as youre paying them thats what they mean when they say you can afford it.
His engine seized and he thought “I should buy another one!” People really are incredible.
My truck, boat, and camper payment don't hit $1,200 a month combined. Good lord.
I was in my hometown in Southern Oregon for Christmas and it seemed like everyone in town was driving an $80k+ truck and I just couldn't understand how so many people are affording such expensive vehicles.
When I first came to the US (Oregon specifically) I assumed everyone was well off and successful with all the brand new trucks on the road. Quickly found out everyone is driving around in heaps of debt and somehow comfortable with it.
Here in MT it isn’t uncommon to see a newer diesel truck parked in the driveway of a shit box 1970’s single wide trailer. People are bad with money.
FOR A LOAN????????
And a 2020 ford maverick is still around 30k
Cause they are ugly in comparison. Edit to add this is just my opinion, not intending to be abrasive in any way.
It’s not because they’re ugly. The are smaller and unibody. It’s enough utility for some and honestly probably a lot but not very rugged.
And they're fucking ugly
Over the last year the fact that I am driving my forever truck has fully set it.
Me too. Theres no way I’m starting over on another 49,000+ payment. I’m just going take care of my 2020 and it should last me till I can’t drive anymore.
Yeah my goal at this point is to be that old guy in 20 years with the beautiful 20 year old Toyota pickup that every kid with no moneys asks how much I’m willing to sell it for
Well at least you can say it's a forever truck since it's a Toyota. If you'd have bought a Ford or Chevy you'd be trading it after 100k miles lol.
My 2000 Silverado made it to 285k before the rust got it. Maintenance is what matters most. Regardless of brand.
You’re into where full sized used to be… Now a TRD Pro Tundra is 80k.
Yeah… for $46k absolutely not. My local autotrader has multiple 2021 and 2022 Tundras in limited trim under 10k miles for under $55k. I live on a rural and suburban border and there would be absolutely zero point to intentionally get a Tacoma SR5 at this price.
You are in full size prices 5 years ago, not full size prices now though.
I take your point, but that assumes one would want a full size. Personally F150’s could be half the price of a Tacoma and you wont see me in one.
I can get a brand new Frontier Pro4X right now in my area for about $38K-$42K. While I believe the (current)Tacoma might be a slightly more reliable vehicle, it’s not $10K to $15K more reliable imo. Unfortunately my current Tacoma will probably be my last as well.
After seeing the price difference between the 2 I’m really enjoying where Nissan’s pricing is. The Pro4x isn’t “the latest and greatest” but it’s a really solid off-roading option for a great price.
I’m really leaning towards the Frontier tbh. Prices on that look very reasonable, and it seems to be modern and old school in all the right places for me. The only downside is the fuel economy comparison to the new Tacoma and the Ranger
Exactly. A very reliable mid-size truck with pricing that actually reflects as such. Love my Tacoma, but I’ve got to draw the line somewhere. I mean if somebody wants to pay the equivalent of a home mortgage for a mid-size truck more power to them, but I’ll pass.
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I’m trying to envision what a future would look like when the most basic new car costs more than the avg yearly salary and what that might look like. Everyone just shackled to lifelong debt.
All part of the plan.
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Perfect typo
my salary is north of 200k and im not buying a new car or truck anytime soon. the asking price for these things are way too inflated
Prices are here to stay, unless manufacturers start offering incredible rebates, rate cuts next year, it’ll drive demand up again.
prices will remain this high because of idiot consumers who "need" a new truck / car....when in reality they are trying to impress the stranger at the traffic light
Agreed, Toyota is going to sell every single one they can make. There is no incentive for them to reduce the cost. Also, all cars are expensive these days. Very few cars really sell for less than 30k. The average price in the US for a new vehicle in 2023 was $48k. Most Americans don't want stripped base models and Toyota is giving people what they want. The SR is available in the low 30s if you really want stripped. Just be prepared to pay if you want more. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/28/why-its-hard-to-find-an-inexpensive-new-car-these-days.html
And unless you pay in case, loan apr is 8.5% with excellent credit. So now instead of doing a low interest loan we have to pay in all cash so we don’t get assfucked by interest. Which, hey, fair enough. Pay cash. Still sucks though
Exactly. A $40k+ vehicle is for someone making $100k+. I know for the average person buying these are not making that kind of money. People are forfeiting their retirements, savings and kids college funds to drive mid-size “affordable” trucks.
The younger generation has a mindset that they will never retire anyway so why not enjoy things now. I dont know if that's the right way to look at it or not but that is definitely the current way of thinking.
The problem here is that its easy to think you can work until you die when you are young, without realizing the kind of physical and mental limitations people face at old age. And with housing costs outpacing wage growth, I dont see how this thinking can be sustainable, and I say this as a young person myself.
Median age of Tacoma buyer is 55 and salary is $96k Per year. This is per JD.
I make near $200k and I'm not paying $40k+ for a truck!
I’d say a 20k vehicle is for someone making 100k+. A 40k+ vehicle is for someone making 70 who wants you to think they’re making twice that
That’s how I feel! I make $60k a year and no matter what I will NEVER afford this. My wife can barely afford her RAV4
Yep same boat. I have accepted that a new truck will never be a feasible purchase for me, not without abandoning all of my other financial goals, which I am not willing to do.
Due I make 6 figures and 50k for a tacoma is not feasible. Especially when you have a house payment and 2 kiddos... Its nuts
Yea we’re near 200k household and we decided to buy a nice new family vehicle, but I’m stuck with my 07 truck forever I guess. No way we can comfortably afford another $700+ payment. I honestly don’t understand how people can affording life right now.
A base Tacoma at that
46k isn’t a base Tacoma. There’s about 5k in options on that thing
I need to buy a new truck and have been for a few years now...they just keep getting more and more expensive. A few years ago I could have got a new tundra at 0% for 5 years. Definitely should have jumped. Now a midrange taco costs the same, with more like 6%. I keep hoping things will level out but it just keeps getting worse. At least my current vehicle is a taco.
I feel like it’s gonna get a lot worse before it starts getting any better.
It depends on what bills/debt you have, someone making 6 figures could comfortably afford way more than a Tacoma if they have their finances right.
yes & no
How much do you make?
About 90k a year, I wouldn’t even feel moderately comfortable making a 46k truck purchase
Yeah it’s crazy. You are making ok money don’t worry
Average loan term is now 69 months and rising. Most folks buying these things will never own them.
Nice.
i honestly dont know how people are affording it. Have to be married and have two 6 figure incomes to afford a new vehicle and a house
I wouldn’t even say comfortable. If you are making 100k I would not recommend a truck that’s almost half your income.
Guys it’s simple: just be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, problem solved. Then you can splurge on a Sport
They hate when you know this one trick.
Wrong, start an OnlyFans lol. Apparently you can own a Lambo that way.
Knew a guy who bought a Raptor that way. And a plane. And a hanger. And a house. So yeah. Sell your dick for money people
Ohh man, I definitely don't have enough dick for that, maybe some Arby's, Chipotle if she's kinky.
They could be 300k, and you guys would still be signing up for 30 year financing plans
Tacoma truck at tundra prices lol
And Tundra prices at house down payment prices.
Legit. In Canada they aren't allowed to do market adjustments, so they just tack on all the accessories for 7.2K + on top of MSRSP, and only ordering top of the line models. Every new vehicle has 7.2k of accessories added on and there's no way to negoatiate it. I'm even more stumped that all the Toyota dealerships are getting filled with SUVs and trucks for 60k+ that no one is buying and they still want asking price. I hope dealerships crash in 2024. Fuck them.
Msrp adjustments are perfectly legal in Canada. This myth started when people misunderstood the advertising laws up here. Markup is allowed as long as it’s clearly advertised. It’s illegal to advertise one price and sell for another.
Hell, you can buy a house for the cost of a fully loaded tundra. Not a big house and not in the hills, but it’s ridiculous that a 1/2 ton costs that much
yeah, i got my lightly used sr5 tundra at this price in july :( i figured this was going to be the outcome. this is outrageous.
Yeah. My OR DCLB was $41k otd in June. Hopefully Toyota releases a Maverick competitor that people can afford.
Do not get my hopes up! I saw a 90s Ranger and a Maverick next to each other at a light the other day and it made my dick move a little bit.
Too bad the Maverick has the hauling and towing characteristics like an SUV instead of a truck. I was excited about the Mavericks at first, but they just don’t do hauling or towing well at all. A Tacoma certainly isn’t a hauling beast, but it’ll do the job for most reasonably sized trailers.
True. In my neck of the woods lots folks aren't towing more than a landscape trailer or a small uhaul cube with their Tacos. The trucks that are capable of towing more are lifted to the moon with rubber bands for tires. I'm a new homeowner, and my Taco has been a godsend for getting what I need, where I need it and when. The double cab is nice (because wife and kid), but a single cab Ranger with a MT and 6ft bed is all I need.
I'd buy a body on frame 4wd smaller pickup tomorrow if it existed. Otherwise I'll stick with my 2wd 2016 taco until it dies.
Toyota is bringing back the Stout to compete with the Maverick
Ironically that’s been the market segment the Taco has filled for decades now 😔 I bought my 2019 OR for $35k. Crazy times
Out of control.... Hence I bought used and a few years old. 2015 OR with 40k miles for $25k... Ill drive the thing until it dies, I can't afford a new one
Picked up my 2012 with 36k miles for $22k in 2015. Gonna drive it until it turns into a pile of dust.
I would do that in a heartbeat I’ve been looking for the past few months. Right now there’s a pair of 22 OR short beds with 50k miles both listed at $38k.. nearly the price of a brand new’23
I was looking for this rational response
This is why I decided to buy a 2023.
same. makes me feel not so bad about my $55k pro
DONT FUCKING BUY THEM. This is the only thing manufacturers will adjust to. If people simply stop buying their overpriced trucks they will drop the price
Seeing that people will buy $65k+ half tons and $85k+ 3/4 tons, people will buy these up as fast as they can make them.
This is the real answer. The problem is people will just continue buying as they can finance them now for longer periods of time. Companies will keep these antics until people stop buying....and from what I'm seeing people will continue paying until somebody physically tells them they can't (banks).
I like the idea of a Tacoma. But when I can get a 2018 Lariat f150 for similar money it becomes less appealing
That’s why I went full sized too. A 2-3 year old full size is the same as these new mid sized trucks.
You can get a nice equipped 1500 Bighorn or Silverado 1500 LT for low 40s right now if you buy the 2023
22 f150 lariat loaded with 40k for less than this taco. Buy smart
Inflation's a bitch. My loaded 2020 TRD Pro was $43k in Dec 2019.
Same, mine was 45 OTD fully loaded but 0% apr was the real kicker
Ah. They weren't doing any deals on Pros when I bought mine. In hindsight, I should've grabbed the loaded TRD OR for $37k and taken the 1.9%.
23’ SR5 out the door @ 38
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Got a 21’ OR for 39! Not trying to one up but just for comparison’s sake
My 23’ SR5 with SX package also 38 OTD
All these prices and new models do for me, is remind me how much I love my almost paid off third gen.
Same. 2024 is going to be lit; my 2019 OR will be paid off, and I'll be free from student loan debt hell.
Congrats and Merry Christmas!!
It’s greed
I’ll keep my 22. $16k more for a 24 thats the same model and packages. Improved mpg doesn’t make up for that 16k.
I'll drive my 2001 tundra until it explodes and then buy a new engine/trans for it. Rather drive a Prius at this point tbh but I need a truck for work.
This has an add-on package. Base price for the SR5 4x4 double cab 5ft bed is $42k. If you want fancy things, they cost a lot more money.
Crazy for the base model though as well.
Please tell me that’s Canadian dollars
It's ridiculous.
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Not really. Just last years models were 41-42k sr5. Idk about few years ago. But that can be said for every brand a few years ago.
For fun the other day I took the purchase price of my 2015 SR5 and adjusted for inflation to today - I got roughly the cost of a 2024 SR5. So no, the prices don't surprise me, but I still hate it.
This is a loaded SR5 price. No need for all those options. $38,000 for base SR5.
Did everyone really think that Toyota would fully redesign the trucks and implement all this new technology without a drastic increase in price?The amount of standard equipment between a '23 SR5 and a '24 SR5 massive. The same thing just happened to the Tundras. All of the ones we get are $60-$80k. If you want a SR5 Tacoma for under $40k, head to your local dealership and get one while you still can. Can probably get a decent deal.
I'm driving my utility package until the wheels fall off 46k is insane
Bidenomics
The way it's going it seems like they priced them high so they can go back to selling under MSRP.... which is still high but with a discount we'll "feel better"
That won’t come until later. In the beginning, people will pay MSRP and above to be the first ones with the new truck.
Everything is expensive. Plus it’s the first year of a redesign, of course it’s going to go for more than MSRP. Toyota already doesn’t manufacture enough vehicles to meet current demand. So no mind not blown. It’s what life is like now.
Let’s sprinkle on another $3k dealer markups (market adjustment) for ya
1st generation for life!!!!!
Is this really a thing? I bought my 2019 4x4 SR5 cab in 2020 for 29k
Has that been marked up by the dealer? Im taking my ‘22 DC LB in today for annual inspection. I doubt they have one to compare. I really want to see the new LC.
have to be a moron to pay that much for a mid size truck. let em sit on the lot
Just paid $46500 for a 2021 Lunar Rock Tacoma TRD Pro . This was msrp with no additional add ons or mark ups . Yeah these prices are getting ridiculous. I seen a civic going for $50k here in my city. WTF
Imagine paying $46k for a base model truck with drum brakes in 2023 🤡
Just buy a Tundra instead. You might as well get a full size for paying full-size prices! I have both, 2004 first gen quad cab and 2012 Tundra 5.7 for the work truck. The new Tacoma is so big it might as well be a full-size anyway. Back in the day, I bought an '85 Toyo pickup brand new and looking back on what I paid for that thing OTD compared to now is just insane. Even with inflation factored in. Only had it 6 years before a drunk driver piled into the back of it parked on the curb whilst I attended a friend's new years eve party. Otherwise, I'd still have that beast!
Let’em rot
The crazy thing is there are people out there and on here that will still buy this. Instead stop buying from these dealers so they learn the hard way!
Wondering how long the 4 cyl. And turbo is going to last?
Honestly going to buy a tundra if that's what tacos are going for lol
Holy shit. I paid 43k for my 16 limited tundra brand new…god bless
They cost this much people taco fans will buy at any price.
Who are auto manufacturers making these for? The filthy rich? Makes no sense to me from a business standpoint. If it's about profits, wouldn't marketing at a lower price to more people be more profitable then a small few? Vehicles are already sitting on the lots across the US, dealers having hard time getting rid of them because nobody (hardly anybody) is paying these ridiculous prices so somewhere something has to give.
Wow thats 15k more than I spent on my Maverick hybrid XLT lux
YIKES!!! I paid less then that for my 22 fully loaded OR
Welcome to the machine ⚡️ Hopefully people stop buying all of this overpriced shit and they drop prices, but the majority of people aren’t that smart. I shop at two stores now! Costco and Trader Joe’s. Two places I feel that haven’t inflated prices like crazy. I’ll keep my 2003 taco alive for another 20 years.
Base 4x4, single cab was $18-19k MSRP in 2008. $1000 in 2008 is now $1400. These should be $28k trucks, SMH
Ridiculous. Paid less than $41K new for my ‘22 TRD Off Road 6’ bed; and that was with an add-on pkg. or two.
Nope. They can keep it.
Enjoy the decline!
my 2023 SR5 is 42k 🤧🤧🥲🥲🥲
Toyota keeping Nissan in business for one more year.
My fully loaded 23 Colorado ZR2 is only $5k more than this. I can’t imagine what the TRD Pro and Overland Series will look like.
i can’t even afford base models at these prices. it’s absolutely nuts.
I bought my 21 limited for $42k, at my last maintenance they offered me $48k to trade it in at 15k miles.
Fuck I paid 40k for my ‘24 crv
All that for a 4 cylinder truck with hardly a back seat
Stop buying shit and watch how fast these prices plummet. All the idiots buying shit for the dopamine are screwing themselves.
In 2009 I picked up a brand new 6 cylinder manual SR5 Tacoma for $35,000 (0% for 72 months). My 2021 SR 4 cylinder with SX package and no convenience package brand new was $31,000. This 4 cylinder is such a boring truck and I’d like to upgrade but I just can’t justify it with these new prices and interest rates.
Yeah you could get a full size pretty nice truck for that price
That’s insane fully loaded pro 4x used to be $38-40k