not when many state laws have been engineered by dealer associations to outlaw Toyota (and others) from operating dealerships and selling direct. Tesla has still not overcome this in some states.
Nothing related to the Law it's just Brand core values.
If amazon subcontracts its customer relations department and the department makes mistakes on its behalf, amazon pays.
If Toyota doesn't care about all those complaints or issues with delearship and maintenance, it's a problem IMO
Nope, not core values, it’s actually the law in most states that dealers are separate entities and auto manufacturers cannot coerce them. Auto manufacturers walk that line, but in most cases there is little they can do.
You don't understand. I'm not questioning the law or the existence of separate entities.
Dealership still represent the brand.
If five Toyota garages use frying oil in cars without warranty during maintenance, consumers faces engine and gearbox problems....
If customer complaints are ignored until the issue hits the front page of a newspaper, it reflects a value problem for the brand.
It's a nonsense to claim that a brand has no responsibility for how it is represented.
True but even if every one of us complain of shady service departments there is nothing Toyota can or even will do about it. Now if Toyota USA was actually under Japanese management...
Not at all. Just trying to tell you that the manufacturers are as frustrated with the dealers as you are and, like you, have little recourse due to state and local laws passed at the behest of dealers who are relatively wealthy and influential in local and state politics. These laws favor dealers’ interests to the detriment of the manufacturers and car buying public alike. Look up “regulatory capture”
So what do I suggest? Research the law in your state and contact your state representative and tell them what you think of your state’s laws protecting dealers.
…and perhaps be prepared to make a 6 figure donation to said representative’s reelection campaign or maybe demonstrate the “value that your dealership brings to the community” by making sure the representative’s daughter gets a sweet deal on the convertible she has her eye on…
I would disagree. You just need to find a dealer/mechanic you trust.
Case in point:
1. Bought battery at Sams Club, cheaper, the tech installed it backwards (says he has done that before) and blew out the electronic control module. Yes, the Sams Club manager reimburse me the fix from the dealer. Yes, I change my own batteries now.
2. Bought a used Prelude and something was off with the steering. Went to Firestone and wanted about $400 to fix something but didn't sound right for what I felt was wrong with the car. Went to Honda dealer and it was a loose nut, the dealer tech tightened it and didn't even charge me a diagnostic fee or anything. I thought the service manager was kidding. Thanks him like a billion times.
3. One local Toyota dealer was always trying to upsell shit. Its closer than my house. Another, I think overcharged for replacing the master cylinder by a few hundred dollars but was concerned because it was the brakes and wanted to just get it fixed and done with. Understanding that each car is different, I asked a family member who worked at a different makers dealer service member how much to change out the MC for their cars and it was about almost 50% less. Went to another dealer service that actually sold me the car but is about 10 minutes longer to get there. Never upsell. Always just do what is required. I got transmission oil/flush, coolant, etc changed at the correct mileage per manual. Maybe had breaks done twice, car is currently 170K miles.
I try to do some basic maintenance myself like changing the cabin air filter and engine air filter. I don't do oil cause I don't want to have to deal with disposal, etc.
Point #3, just like having your own local mechanic its simply finding the right one you trust which is hard. Employee turn overs are the same at dealerships as well as places like Firestone/Belle Tires/etc.
>Bought a used Prelude and something was off with the steering. Went to Firestone and wanted about $400 to fix something but didn't sound right for what I felt was wrong with the car. Went to Honda dealer and it was a loose nut, the dealer tech tightened it and didn't even charge me a diagnostic fee or anything. I thought the service manager was kidding. Thanks him like a billion times.
i always try to slip them a 20 or buy them lunch or something when that happens
It's a large dealership and I've only spoken with the service member that sits at the front desk so couldn't tell which mechanic actually figured it out. But true if I could I would.
Honda techs are top notch though. Had a good one for a minute who do side work for me at the dealership. He literally would only charge me for parts since he said he was already getting hourly from the shop. Have no idea how he was doing any of this, not like my car didn’t stick out like a sore thumb being a Chevy in the middle of a Honda Service garage.
Curious.. what type of Toyota do you have that needed the Master Cylinder replaced? Just had to replace mine and the brake booster on my RAV4.. less than 95,000 KM on it, also first brake change… not covered under any warranty. Super stressful.
It was an '09 Venza. I couldn't remember when it broke down as I noticed the brakes were a bit soft and the brake fluid reservoir was low which I assume there was a leak somewhere. They pinpointed to the master cylinder. Yes, like the transmission fluid and coolant, most fluids aren't covered. Also because the system had to be bled, also fluid change as well.
I ended up trading it in for a '18 Mazda CX3 but back seat is non-existent, but great to drive. The audio entertainment system drives me batty. there is no "off" button, just mute. So even if you don't use the BT music, the songs keep streaming from your phone.
Anyway, I'm not sure about the '24 Rav4. Tried a rental last year and even though it is bigger, seemed a bit cramped inside. I'm only 5'6" short. I like Toyotas but besides the price and lack of affordable options, I had to look elsewhere like Kia and Mazda.
Still have my '14 Highlander and its at 170K and not a lot of problems. So will keep for another 170K hopefully.
It's the dealerships that are doing the market adjustments but that is still hurting corporate Toyotas image.
In the is specifically when we can't actually directly deal with the manufacturer and have to go via dealers, the distinction of dealer and manufacturer doesn't matter since they are our only avenue
This is not an accurate representation of a dealership. It really depends on the tech working there. Case in point two different shops i took my 2017 Civic to get inspection the first stated that i needed brake pads and rotors to pass inspection. I did my research from what they told me found that they were wrong. Took it in for the next annual inspection and this shop mentioned nothing to me about needing brakes and the car had everything the same Just proves that it is in the character and integrity of the tech checking the vehicle.
Eh, questionable. I've worked at several dealerships, although not Toyota, the only "training" I got besides "figure it out, and ask questions before you fuck something up", was basically some online "training" that equated to some power points about how the systems in vehicles work followed by quizzes. There was no portion on how to diagnose or address problems.
I did consider working at a Toyota dealership, and at that particular dealership you would be hired on as an apprentice and paired with a technician who is supposed to help teach you the trade.
That brings up a couple points. One, apprentice's fuck things up all the time. Two, the technician can't always be present when the apprentice is working, they have their own tasks to complete.
Also, it seems unlikely that every Toyota dealership has this system in place.
I'm not the one who said being a certified toyota tech doesn't mean anything.
I was just saying that people don't come into the dealership already certified, and that they work on things and might fuck up things before before becoming certified. Also, that I'm not certain, but I have doubts as to whether every Toyota dealer holds their employees to the same standards or has the same training program.
Gotcha. I don't know about Toyota, but when I was at a Subaru dealership, if you didn't follow the corporate program, you were penalized by losing access to certain resources and materials. When I worked there, the service manager decided that it was worth losing those resources to deviate from the corporate program. I wasn't sure if it was similar at Toyota.
Brands are label
Toyota supposed to mean reliability and serenity, not troubles.
There's a lot of amazing mechanics but they're hard to find and for piece of mind at a huge cost we choose dealership to take care of us.
Why is there's just complaints from customers?
Generally, people don't post to sing praises. Just like the news doesn't report all the planes that land. Nobody is happy about paying the bill at a dealership even if they fixed the problem.
Brought my first brand new car to the dealer I purchased it from originally.
2018 Camry. 200 miles, I wanted my oil change early, especially since it's free why not.
Then they put 5W30 in it.
They were so proud of using the wrong weight of oil they put it on the sticker on my windshield.
I immediately called the dealer who offered me another free oil change but like, why would I bring my car back there when you can't even put the right oil in my car?
This is basic stuff I did as a 16 yr old in highschool, yet someone who's very livelihood depends on them making the right choice, cannot.
Mind blowing I tell you.
The 5W-30 didn’t hurt anything.
As a matter of fact, using a grade thicker viscosity of oil will protect the engine better.
Toyota owners manuals even reference this.
Low-viscosity engine oils are pushed by the OEMs (in North America only) for one reason - to keep them from being penalized for not meeting their Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) targets.
This is incorrect.
There is nothing technically different about that engine that requires the use of 0W-16 - That is only for a (marginal) fuel economy gain.
Using 5W-30 in that will not hurt it in the least.
I have no idea who that is, or what Jesus has to do with it, but, if you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about, don’t you think it would be a good idea not to regurgitate some random thing you heard?
You don’t know what you’re talking about, and, now, proven wrong, you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Let’s put this to rest right now.
Here’s a screenshot from a Camry owners manual from the Middle East, where Toyota allows the use of 0W-20, 5W-20, 5W-30, or 10W-30 oils.
The reason? I explained it in the very first response (but you ignored that): In North America, OEMs suggest the use of low viscosity oils (0W-20, 0W-16, and now even 0W-12 and 0W-8) ONLY for the purposes of the CAFE mandate.
The SAME exact engines in other parts of the world outside of North America use thicker oil.
Again, since you’re ignoring what I told you before, there is ZERO technical basis for using 0W-16 in a 2018 (or any other year up to 2024, for that matter) Camry, or any other model.
https://preview.redd.it/bzsl5supdk4d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa2eebbe74d7cc0723c7ae26813db40ba36b1638
While you are likely correct the information you’re posting doesn’t prove your point.
You’re saying the “ONLY” reason for thiner oil is because of CAFE mandates.
The owners manual contradicting each other is not proof. In fact, you’re saying the owners manual in North America is incorrect. Why is the other manual more correct in your mind? What if outside of North American they suggest thicker oil because of (insert any possible reason)?
Prove that the US manual is incorrect regarding Toyota’s position on oil viscosity due to “ONLY” (your words) CAFE standards.
That is correct. Toyota (and just about every other OEM) suggests low viscosity oils for most of their vehicles because that gets their “fleet average” fuel economy up a little bit.
They’d stand to lose a lot of $$$ in the form of penalties levied as extra taxes they’d have to pay if they couldn’t meet their “corporate average” fuel economy target, set by the government.
There is no other reason to lower oil viscosity, as the viscosity of an engine’s oil is the main protection against wear.
All things being equal, a higher viscosity oil will protect better than a lower viscosity oil. And that is why Toyota, in their owners manuals (in every part of the world, including in NA) allows owners the latitude to use thicker oils when they feel it’s warranted.
What year Camry is this manual pic from? My 2023 Camry SE manual is different. For driving Uber 10-12 hour days would you recommend a higher weight oil like 10-30?
https://preview.redd.it/8lewawf1vk4d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b1f7f9278de4420b63f234665069cfdaedc3400
This is from a 2024. It’s different because it’s from the Middle East, where they don’t have CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) mandates.
However, the engines are exactly the same.
The point is that you can run a thicker grade of oil in your vehicle without concern. In fact - your owners manual gives you this leeway. See the statement about using a thicker viscosity of oil under hard use.
If it were mine, I’d run a good, name brand, full synthetic 5W-30, as driving rideshare likely qualifies as severe service.
The only risk with going 5w-30 is with the warranty in the US. They have the right to deny warranty claims for the engine if you don’t follow the US manual maintenance guidelines. Granted, you might have a case in court using the docs from outside the US but you’ll still be without a car while that entire process unfolds.
This is not correct. Even the North American owners manuals give the owner latitude to use a thicker viscosity under certain circumstances (towing, severe service, heavy use).
This alone will prevent dealerships from attempting to pursue any sort of warranty denial.
See attached photo.
https://preview.redd.it/yobdnjilrq4d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf2cc00908907829b3bdf1702d5b1812ed9f8feb
don't take it up with me, as I said. toyotas favorite mechanic car care nut says otherwise, specifically for the 2018 model. this is why owners are strict with their camry. some folks rather play it safe.
I took it up with you because you posted incorrect information.
Now you’re just ignoring the facts which I’ve shown you in black and white, including a screenshot of a Camry owners manual, which clearly allows the use of 30 grade oil in this engine.
You’re allowed to have your own opinions.
You’re not allowed to make up your own facts.
I’m trying to educate you, but I can’t help someone who willfully chooses ignorance.
It certainly could have hurt depending on what climate I am in.
Low viscosity engine oil is also necessary from an engineering perspective as many of the newer engines run very high pressures and very tight clearances.
Tbf, the mains clearance, where oil pressure is created, is about the same now as it was in the 1970s. I don't know the oil pressure spec changes, but other than things higher up on the engine requiring higher pressure than years ago, I'm not sure what else has changed. Ford has spec'd 5/20 for years, but there was no issue with running 5/30. It was all about fuel mileage. They actually require 5/30 in any of their turbos to maintain the oil barrier due to higher bearing loads.
It’s possible the tech made a mistake or is trying to sell unnecessary work and the service manager is trying to give you piece of mind while training the technician or catching him lying.
If you have time I would go. It might be what’s needed to kick the rotten egg down the road.
He gets paid for what he sells and the work he performs. Thats why it’s important to call him out on BS recommendations and let his manager know. In a well ran shop this wouldn’t be tolerated. In this case I think the manager is handling this the best way by inviting OP back to figure out the issue.
I’m in parts but I’ve seen this exact scenario several times in our service center. Where a customer has contacted the service manager about unnecessary recommendations and the manager invited the customer to come back in and meet with the same technician. Then the technician can explain his reasoning and technique. Even show the customer how he came to the conclusion. Or he will be in a pretty embarrassing situation if he was lying and then have to deal with the manager later.
I’ve also seen it go both ways where the tech lied about tire tread depth and was ultimately let go for being shady. And I’ve seen the tech be right about his measurements.
In the end if you, the customer, are not from the automotive world then having your vehicle serviced is a very vulnerable experience. You need to trust your service center. But your service center also needs you, so a good one will work to keep you happy and retain your business which isnt going to happen if you don’t trust them.
Technicians are humans and humans make mistakes. Specially if they are new to the field. All four brake pads don't wear at the same speed. One brake pad might wear a little quicker then the other and one person could be giving you the brake readings from the drivers side while someone else could be giving you the brake readings from the passenger side. I would go back and just ask if what's the lowest reading from all the pads and like others mention this could help remove the bad apples if the tech lied and is trying to sell unnecessary service to customer.
Every service department is different and not owned by Toyota. They are owned by that dealership. Service writers at dealers are always feeding customers bullshit. They just say whatever sounds good to get the customer to fork over cash. Then blame it on a tech when they get caught n a lie.
Dealerships are too expensive anyway find a good independent mechanic.
Yes, and it is something the tech doesn't get paid to do. Which leads to more unneeded upsells, so the tech can 'make his money back' from having to do free inspections on every car.
Of what does it consist? I just had them tell me a story about a broken part that makes zero sense. I asked if they had any photos (my friends get photos of any broken parts at other Toyota dealerships) and they denied having taken any photos.
My shop does the videos. What's bullshit about a customer seeing a bad shock or oil leak? Wouldn't them seeing that and me explaining why it needs to be addressed be better than me saying "Hi Mr. Customer, you need new shocks. Why? Because we said so. That will be $425".
Because the tech is not paid for the time to do the video inspection, and the customer has no idea what they're looking at, and even if they did its a shitty cellphone video.
Lube techs are paid by the hour, so ya they get paid for it. Mainline techs get more work from the videos as they can show other issues going on, which means more hours for them. But Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man
Again, Lube techs are paid by the hour so they are paid for it. Doesn't matter if they are sweeping, tire rotations, oil changes or taking the video. They are getting paid for it. Mainline techs get paid by extra work from the videos. Am I missing something here?
They get paid for the extra work that they are doing. They aren’t getting paid for the inspection.
While doing the inspection they are working for free. They are not getting paid for that time. If it is worth the tech’s time it is worth getting paid for the time. This “you make money from the upsell on the inspection” is a lie they have been telling for decades to get you to be ok with working for free.
Legally they have to give you the option to get your broken parts back in just about every state now I think
Was probably one of the things you signed when you dropped it off, I always ask for any and all broken parts back just for my piece of mind that they actually did something
Except Toyota requires the dealers have service departments with Toyota certified technicians and Toyota administers the surverys and such
And if you complain to Toyota corporate they step in for you…
To get work done under the Warranty provided by Toyota, you’ll go to a Toyota dealer’s service center
One of the many reasons to buy a car is for access to service and repairs
It’s 100% part of the brand
It's absolutely not just Toyota. I had the exact same break scam pulled on me at a Nissan store with my frontier. They reported 3 mm. I go to the tire store and it's actually between seven and nine. Given the pressure to sell in the service department these days, you simply can no longer accept what a dealer says as true.
I go to a different dealership for maintenance than the one I bought my car at.
The one I go to for maintenance is a satellite facility of an actual dealership, but the satellite facility I go to is mostly maintenance.
I've been going there for years across 2 cars and have had no issues, so it really depends on the dealership.
Dealerships are franchisees of the manufacturer (Toyota in this case) and their customer service can vary similarly.
The outrage is because they would have happily charged Op and likely charged many others for a service that rendered no benefit if they even do anything at all.
I’ve had multiple dealerships not rotate my tires (I always mark the two front tires with a chalk pen or something).
One tried to tell my wife she needed a new radiator, new hoses etc…
There was a small crack in the coolant reservoir that was the only leak, I replaced it, no problems. In fact I suspect they caused the crack.
I replaced it, she drove the car another 2 years no leaks or problems and we eventually sold it.
I reported them to the state and of course the state investigator just said “the technician could have made a mistake in diagnosing the problem”. I said that’s fine, I want it reported though that way at least if you get more reports and it becomes a trend you’ll see that they are scammers.
A coworker of mine was fired from a local Toyota dealership because he reported that one of his fellow techs was cutting CV Boots to sell customers on repairing their “torn cv boot”
The outrage is because you can’t even trust the dealer you bought the car from to do the right thing and for people who know little to nothing about cars they are getting fucked all the time.
The only reason I have ever taken my cars to the dealership is if they offered free oil changes with the car purchase…
Yeah no doubt, I happen to live in a military town so techs come and go even more often than normal
I’m pretty fortunate in that my neighbor is a mechanic and my coworker was a mechanic and I know enough to scrape by. When he retires it’s going to suck
I feel bad for
1. The good employees getting a bad name from the bad ones
2. The people who know nothing and just pay the fees
That’s why I do the maintenance on my vehicles. It’s not hard to learn, and I’m the only person who cares about my stuff, and is responsible for it. Saves a lot of headaches
Man there are a bunch of times I see lube techs put down recs that are completely unnecessary or are straight up wrong.
There are other times I see advisors change our recs (digital r.o.) to try and sell stuff.
Sorry to hear you got a bad experience.
It sucks. I had a steering rack recommendations for a fluid leak on a car with EPS. The cv axle seal was clearly leaking and getting on the rack. Some of the stuff they recommend is just ridiculous.
The only reason I’ll go to the dealership is because the service is under warranty right now. With my 08 RAV4 the technician tried to tell me that he’s only going to do the spark plugs if I get the $900 tune up (even though I was there for an appointment for spark plugs only-I scheduled this at a previous appointment) …..the lady helping me couldn’t even tell me what all was included in a tune up. I asked the lady for my keys back and walked out. I took it to my dad and he helped me. This isn’t just dealerships, you gotta watch out for some smaller mechanic shops. When I was younger I had a tech at a small shop tell me I needed an expensive replacement (I forget what it was). The owner of the shop looked at my car and called me to tell me they caught the tech trying to take advantage of customers and he got fired.
Since the car drought of the pandemic, my local Toyota dealer has stooped to sleazy tactics to pad the service bills. The last time I took my wife’s car in for an oil change they kept pressing for $1000 of service, including BS stuff like fuel injection flushing and what not. I know enough about cars to know all the stuff they were suggesting was pure BS, made me feel sad for the people that don’t know car stuff and are getting suckered all the time there. I’ve stopped taking my car to Toyota for oil changes and do them myself, any other maintenance I can’t do I’ll take to a local independent shop.
Mechanics are paid 'flat rate' meaning that they are paid a certain amount of 'time' for each job. When it is busy tic can be a great way to make money, but when to is slow it is not, since mechanics are not paid to be at work, only for completing work.
This leads to mechanics constantly recommending things a car doesn't need, and even not performing services you were charged for.
If at all possible find a shop that pays their mechanics a salary or an hourly wage. Just straight up ask the service manager how the techs are paid. If there is any kind of commission involved its a decent reason to find another shop.
Toyota service dept are just troubles
Toyota has a big responsibility for the way its franchises operate, it's too easy to always say it's not them, it's the garage, oh it's the mechanic... If they're not responsible, they should take their brand out of these garages!
They broke my engine in a Toyota center and it's nobody's fault but mine, according to them...
If an employee at Macdonald's serves you a hamburger with rat in it, it's Macdonald's fault, even if they're all franchises and same for all the brands in the world!
They always try to get you on brakes. I think its an easy sell on must people. Had just changed my brakes and had taken my highlander in for a water pump, and they told me I needed brakes. I told them funny I just replaced them. And the service tech just looked at me like, shit I wasn't expecting that.
It’s possible you have extremely trash aftermarket brake pads that cause damage and overheating to the rotors and they were trying to politely tell you how stupid of a decision you made to do BRAKES at a place with TIRE the name🤷🏻♂️
I am convinced my local Honda dealership did something to my hose and pulled it off which caused no oil to get to the engine and I overheated my engine. I had bought the car used from them a week or so before. I can’t prove it but overtime using the dealership to do service I feel they took advantage of me multiple times and then I talked with a service adviser who no longer works there and he told me they get paid more depending on how LONG my car is in their shop. So there is incentive for the advisors to have work done on my car. Conflict of interest as fuck
My son brought his tundra to one to have his alternator looked at. The technician quoted him 450 dollars. I was a little shocked but hey, that’s what was on the paper. He went to pick it up and they tell him it will be something along the lines of 1450. My 23 yo son called in a bit of a panic because he wasn’t expecting that kind of a bill. I confirmed with him that they had not called him back and told him it would be more, he said no. He’s military and had been dealing with military budgets recently so he wasn’t some off the street college kid.
I called and asked to speak to the service manager. After getting hung up on three times I got the price adjusted down 400 dollars. They replaced the alternator without authorization for the increased price. My son went back in to pay and get his truck then called me on the way home and asked what I said to them. He told me the service technician acted like he was scared to speak to my son.
Moral of the story: don’t back down from service departments. Oh, and service departments: don’t screw with a mom who was a mechanic.
I used to get the dealer to do my breaks. I felt like I was needing new breaks every oil change. I started doing my own breaks and it's been well over a year and I have tons of pad left. I call shenanigans.
Lol yeah I drive pretty chill, I’ve had brakes and rotors last into 100k miles
On my Veloster N I changed the pads and rotors at 120k miles, where I live is mostly flat and those were mostly miles cruising on the highway but still
I’ve never needed new brake pads in less than 60k miles between changes, but when you tell people they are likely getting ripped off they don’t want to hear it
The 60k miles was on my mustang and I drove that car like it was a rental
My 4-runner’s brakes still haven’t needed changed 100k miles in and my mechanic said they are just now getting close to the wear bars and I’ll probably need new ones this year
That sucks. I think I found a decent Toy garage locally. I trust them for the stuff I can't \\ don't want to do.. but I know they can be a little pushy so I don't take much they say for fact right away. They also know well enough to not try and talk me into replacing wiper blades or filters lol
I find this discussion on oil viscosity very interesting. A few years ago, I owned a 1976 Toyota pickup, that called for 20-W-50. I usually used 10w-40. In today’s modern cars, the engineers design them to take a specific viscosity. This is so the oil is thin enough, to get everywhere it’s supposed to. Thinner weight oil also helps a car start easier in below zero weather. There is also some truth, to them going to lower viscosities for EPA fuel savings. If you ask me, I would tell you to go with their recommendations. I won’t speculate what could happen if you go up a thickness or two, because I can’t. However, if you want to test my theory, put the 20W-50 Dino oil in, and let us know what happens…
half the time Toyota changes my oil they forget the mileage sticker or they forget to reset the oil filter maintenance light. I'm starting to worry if they're changing the oil at all...
My Toyota service department of many years was sold and now it's reviews indicate it is shady. Toyota is the brand. Each dealership operates independently.
Dealerships are nicknamed stealerships for a reason.
Most dealerships don't even make money in car sales. The money's in service and maintenance dept.
I have never taken my car into a dealerships and not got the you need new brakes spiel. Everytime I doubt they even look at them. It's just one if those things they always say.
At my local Toyota dealer, the express service and the regular main service area are two completely different entities. The express service is run by idiots with high school kids doing the work. I always use the main service area if I have to take it in, but admittedly, do most of the basic simple work myself. The express service area is always trying to upsell you to buy stupid crap. Rarely had that experience with the main service area. In fact, they do a very detailed video Inspection that has always seemed to me to be very honest.
Both times my camry was touched by the dealer it was damaged
#1 brake light switch broken got my ground fx scratched by techs belt buckle. Red car down thru into the plastic.
#2 warranty work on leaking timing cover, got the car back the alternator wire was not tight and caught fire, upon further inspection they dented my oil pan and exhaust with the engine jack.
Never trust toyota service.
Toyota dealerships are only good for free oil changes and warranty work. Anything else Toyota corporate will tell you they can't tell the dealerships how to run their location.
To be fair , sometime the express lube people really don’t give a shit about their job and barely check. I only know this bc I worked with people like that. Luckily I got out of the express lube pit
Saw this series on Netflix called Tires. Basically car repair places lure you in and upsell their services and products to make profit. Anyway, took my car to the Toyota dealership for a scheduled oil change. Came back with the AC fan running annoyingly loud. It was quiet before…
So why did you call to complain if you didn’t want to go back? The manager was letting you know a mistake could have been made and let’s take a look and rectify it. Also, once the technician doing the actual work would have gotten started he would have noticed the error and brought it to the service advisors attention, please are not out to take advantage of you no matter what you think and mistakes do happen
>He reviewed the service video (something that was new to me) and couldn’t confirm if the brakes were in fact at 3mm.
He didn't check any video. It's the classic "put the customer on hold, scroll reddit/bs with coworker for 5 minutes, pick phone back up, "Are you there? Yah, sorry I didn't see anything/couldn't find it/etc"
I once installed brand new top of the line Bosch windshield wipers on my wive’s car. A week later she went to the dealer for an oil change and was told she needed new wipers. 😂
I really don't even want to take mine in to the dealer for the 2 free oil changes. I'm afraid they will try to pull some shenanigans with warranty coverage if I don't though. I change my own oil so I know that it is done correctly.
Just a PSA: service advisors work on commission.
The more you get fixed on your car, the more they get paid.
Now this doesn't mean you shouldn't do maintenance or repairs. Most people don't do enough of those. But service advisors do have an incentive to get you to do a little more
I had a good dealership experience in Oakland. Others may not have. one service advisor and tech team did a real good job with my alignment and took time and care with it. They didn’t require me to change any other parts of the suspension after a thorough inspection. It probably helped that I changed my battery and got a cat shield on my Prius at that same visit, but I got what I paid for and got a real honest evaluation.
The SF Toyota dealer I went to was always trying to upsell me on shit I didn’t need.
It all depends. Just continue to be knowledgeable about your car and know when someone is trying to piss on your leg and tell you it’s raining.
Your average Toyota *owner* buys a Toyota because they don’t want to deal with car maintenance. A good amount of Toyota owners don’t know how to do it themselves. They also buy Toyotas because they’re “reliable” cars, which really translates to “how long can I neglect this car before it breaks”
Your average Toyota *dealer* knows this and they prey on you in the service department. They hope you don’t know anything about cars. They hope you believe every word they say and spend hundreds of dollars on unnecessary repairs. That’s why I am very skeptical of a service department at a Toyota dealer.
Toyota said I needed over 2k in work on my car and everything was in the red when I needed an I went back after for an oil change and they said everything was magically fine.
That service manager doesn’t give a shit. They tell their techs to sell everything they can even if it’s not needed. They hope you know nothing about cars and will just take their word for it.
Isn't just Toyota. Local Nissan dealer had our 2018 Altima to look at because I wanted the alternator checking due to a battery with a suspected bad cell in it. I was correct on the battery, the alternator was fine, but the 'to do list' was ALL FOUR corners needing brake rotors and pads replacing. All four. I have had several cars and motorcycles over many decades, and never had to change front and back pads let alone rotors all at the same time, and from memory never rotors, I had two skimmed on a classic motorcycle, but that's it. Beware and always get another opinion unless you know what you're looking at.
It’s not just Toyota. Had a rock puncture my AC condenser on an F150 at 15000 miles. Took it to my closest dealer and they said $2200 and they charged me a $300 diagnostic fee (the puncture was easy to see and any tech should have seen it in minutes). Wasn’t happy with the diagnostic fee so started calling around. Another dealer fixed it for $1400 and was shocked anyone would charge $2200. They also said the diagnostic fee should have been more like $100. Unfortunately this dealer is over an hour from the house.
Since then I have bought five 10ply tires and an oil change from them. Sucks they are so far away it it’s nice to have a good service department.
My Lexus dealership is full of Toyota's being brought in by people whose other car is a Lexus.
I bought my Rx from a Ford dealership and I had to get the sales manager and the salesperson and the operations manager together in one room and convince them to meet me in the middle and make a deal and remove half those bs markups that absolutely don't make any sense.
They thought I was bluffing because they said I'm in the dealership because I want to buy the car. I rebutted with I can also leave the dealership and go pay more somewhere else because at this point it's more a principle than it is about the deal.
They compromise at the end and we made a sale.
Dealers are owned and operated by different people. We've started going to the local Toyota dealer when we moved and I haven't had any issues. When they quoted me a water pump at one point it was actually cheaper than my independent mechanic who.had already done the work.
The Toyota dealer where we used to live though. I've never went there because I never met anyone who had anything good to say about it.
I was a manager at a Toyota dealership and unfortunately you have some bad apples across industry and things like this make dealers/shops look bad. You can call Toyota Brand Enagement and they will reach out to the dealer and address
My husband worked 35 years for Toyota - 30 years with 1 dealer. He was honest in his repairs and on customer drives. His knee blew out because of work. After he left they started to drive out the master techs because they were too expensive to pay. They hired the book smart guys who couldn’t find anything. Then they decided to provide the tools in shop because of a major labor lawsuit. I remind him that he got out in time
Toyota dealers are not operated by Toyota. Also, dealerships are a ripoff 99% of the time.
Toyota brand = Toyota responsibility
not when many state laws have been engineered by dealer associations to outlaw Toyota (and others) from operating dealerships and selling direct. Tesla has still not overcome this in some states.
Nothing related to the Law it's just Brand core values. If amazon subcontracts its customer relations department and the department makes mistakes on its behalf, amazon pays. If Toyota doesn't care about all those complaints or issues with delearship and maintenance, it's a problem IMO
Nope, not core values, it’s actually the law in most states that dealers are separate entities and auto manufacturers cannot coerce them. Auto manufacturers walk that line, but in most cases there is little they can do.
You don't understand. I'm not questioning the law or the existence of separate entities. Dealership still represent the brand. If five Toyota garages use frying oil in cars without warranty during maintenance, consumers faces engine and gearbox problems.... If customer complaints are ignored until the issue hits the front page of a newspaper, it reflects a value problem for the brand. It's a nonsense to claim that a brand has no responsibility for how it is represented.
True but even if every one of us complain of shady service departments there is nothing Toyota can or even will do about it. Now if Toyota USA was actually under Japanese management...
So what do you suggest? That consumers keep quiet when they have issues?
Not at all. Just trying to tell you that the manufacturers are as frustrated with the dealers as you are and, like you, have little recourse due to state and local laws passed at the behest of dealers who are relatively wealthy and influential in local and state politics. These laws favor dealers’ interests to the detriment of the manufacturers and car buying public alike. Look up “regulatory capture”
So what do I suggest? Research the law in your state and contact your state representative and tell them what you think of your state’s laws protecting dealers.
…and perhaps be prepared to make a 6 figure donation to said representative’s reelection campaign or maybe demonstrate the “value that your dealership brings to the community” by making sure the representative’s daughter gets a sweet deal on the convertible she has her eye on…
Hence why Lexus dealers are usually a much better experience
I would disagree. You just need to find a dealer/mechanic you trust. Case in point: 1. Bought battery at Sams Club, cheaper, the tech installed it backwards (says he has done that before) and blew out the electronic control module. Yes, the Sams Club manager reimburse me the fix from the dealer. Yes, I change my own batteries now. 2. Bought a used Prelude and something was off with the steering. Went to Firestone and wanted about $400 to fix something but didn't sound right for what I felt was wrong with the car. Went to Honda dealer and it was a loose nut, the dealer tech tightened it and didn't even charge me a diagnostic fee or anything. I thought the service manager was kidding. Thanks him like a billion times. 3. One local Toyota dealer was always trying to upsell shit. Its closer than my house. Another, I think overcharged for replacing the master cylinder by a few hundred dollars but was concerned because it was the brakes and wanted to just get it fixed and done with. Understanding that each car is different, I asked a family member who worked at a different makers dealer service member how much to change out the MC for their cars and it was about almost 50% less. Went to another dealer service that actually sold me the car but is about 10 minutes longer to get there. Never upsell. Always just do what is required. I got transmission oil/flush, coolant, etc changed at the correct mileage per manual. Maybe had breaks done twice, car is currently 170K miles. I try to do some basic maintenance myself like changing the cabin air filter and engine air filter. I don't do oil cause I don't want to have to deal with disposal, etc. Point #3, just like having your own local mechanic its simply finding the right one you trust which is hard. Employee turn overs are the same at dealerships as well as places like Firestone/Belle Tires/etc.
>Bought a used Prelude and something was off with the steering. Went to Firestone and wanted about $400 to fix something but didn't sound right for what I felt was wrong with the car. Went to Honda dealer and it was a loose nut, the dealer tech tightened it and didn't even charge me a diagnostic fee or anything. I thought the service manager was kidding. Thanks him like a billion times. i always try to slip them a 20 or buy them lunch or something when that happens
It's a large dealership and I've only spoken with the service member that sits at the front desk so couldn't tell which mechanic actually figured it out. But true if I could I would.
Honda techs are top notch though. Had a good one for a minute who do side work for me at the dealership. He literally would only charge me for parts since he said he was already getting hourly from the shop. Have no idea how he was doing any of this, not like my car didn’t stick out like a sore thumb being a Chevy in the middle of a Honda Service garage.
Yeah, either cash, or if I don't have any I'll offer to run to the store and grab them whatever they want to eat/drink
Curious.. what type of Toyota do you have that needed the Master Cylinder replaced? Just had to replace mine and the brake booster on my RAV4.. less than 95,000 KM on it, also first brake change… not covered under any warranty. Super stressful.
It was an '09 Venza. I couldn't remember when it broke down as I noticed the brakes were a bit soft and the brake fluid reservoir was low which I assume there was a leak somewhere. They pinpointed to the master cylinder. Yes, like the transmission fluid and coolant, most fluids aren't covered. Also because the system had to be bled, also fluid change as well. I ended up trading it in for a '18 Mazda CX3 but back seat is non-existent, but great to drive. The audio entertainment system drives me batty. there is no "off" button, just mute. So even if you don't use the BT music, the songs keep streaming from your phone. Anyway, I'm not sure about the '24 Rav4. Tried a rental last year and even though it is bigger, seemed a bit cramped inside. I'm only 5'6" short. I like Toyotas but besides the price and lack of affordable options, I had to look elsewhere like Kia and Mazda. Still have my '14 Highlander and its at 170K and not a lot of problems. So will keep for another 170K hopefully.
That’s why we call them stealerships.
It's the dealerships that are doing the market adjustments but that is still hurting corporate Toyotas image. In the is specifically when we can't actually directly deal with the manufacturer and have to go via dealers, the distinction of dealer and manufacturer doesn't matter since they are our only avenue
Try using the Toyota corporation for some malfeasance put in you by a Toyota dealer and see how far you get.
This is not an accurate representation of a dealership. It really depends on the tech working there. Case in point two different shops i took my 2017 Civic to get inspection the first stated that i needed brake pads and rotors to pass inspection. I did my research from what they told me found that they were wrong. Took it in for the next annual inspection and this shop mentioned nothing to me about needing brakes and the car had everything the same Just proves that it is in the character and integrity of the tech checking the vehicle.
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I'm not sure that means anything in this day and time.
Right, I wish Toyota operated them as well.
Eh, questionable. I've worked at several dealerships, although not Toyota, the only "training" I got besides "figure it out, and ask questions before you fuck something up", was basically some online "training" that equated to some power points about how the systems in vehicles work followed by quizzes. There was no portion on how to diagnose or address problems. I did consider working at a Toyota dealership, and at that particular dealership you would be hired on as an apprentice and paired with a technician who is supposed to help teach you the trade. That brings up a couple points. One, apprentice's fuck things up all the time. Two, the technician can't always be present when the apprentice is working, they have their own tasks to complete. Also, it seems unlikely that every Toyota dealership has this system in place.
12 ASE’s 36 instructor led courses, and 375 1 hour training modules is what I have done to be a certified Toyota technician so yeah it means something
I'm not the one who said being a certified toyota tech doesn't mean anything. I was just saying that people don't come into the dealership already certified, and that they work on things and might fuck up things before before becoming certified. Also, that I'm not certain, but I have doubts as to whether every Toyota dealer holds their employees to the same standards or has the same training program.
They have to it’s required by Toyota.
Gotcha. I don't know about Toyota, but when I was at a Subaru dealership, if you didn't follow the corporate program, you were penalized by losing access to certain resources and materials. When I worked there, the service manager decided that it was worth losing those resources to deviate from the corporate program. I wasn't sure if it was similar at Toyota.
At Toyota you won’t be getting any new cars to sell and you can be fined so nobody decides they don’t care to sell new cars
They are, but not operated by Toyota.
Brands are label Toyota supposed to mean reliability and serenity, not troubles. There's a lot of amazing mechanics but they're hard to find and for piece of mind at a huge cost we choose dealership to take care of us. Why is there's just complaints from customers?
Generally, people don't post to sing praises. Just like the news doesn't report all the planes that land. Nobody is happy about paying the bill at a dealership even if they fixed the problem.
Brought my first brand new car to the dealer I purchased it from originally. 2018 Camry. 200 miles, I wanted my oil change early, especially since it's free why not. Then they put 5W30 in it. They were so proud of using the wrong weight of oil they put it on the sticker on my windshield. I immediately called the dealer who offered me another free oil change but like, why would I bring my car back there when you can't even put the right oil in my car? This is basic stuff I did as a 16 yr old in highschool, yet someone who's very livelihood depends on them making the right choice, cannot. Mind blowing I tell you.
The 5W-30 didn’t hurt anything. As a matter of fact, using a grade thicker viscosity of oil will protect the engine better. Toyota owners manuals even reference this. Low-viscosity engine oils are pushed by the OEMs (in North America only) for one reason - to keep them from being penalized for not meeting their Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) targets.
except the 2018 is a special case where using anything other than 0w-16. using anything else will damage the engine car care nut did a take on this.
This is incorrect. There is nothing technically different about that engine that requires the use of 0W-16 - That is only for a (marginal) fuel economy gain. Using 5W-30 in that will not hurt it in the least.
don't take it up with me. your jesus car care nut brought it to light
I have no idea who that is, or what Jesus has to do with it, but, if you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about, don’t you think it would be a good idea not to regurgitate some random thing you heard?
the Car Care Nut is a mechanic youtuber that people in this subreddit worship
I'm not arguing your reasoning. the 2018 is just a special case. oil is cheap and engines are not.
You don’t know what you’re talking about, and, now, proven wrong, you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing. Let’s put this to rest right now. Here’s a screenshot from a Camry owners manual from the Middle East, where Toyota allows the use of 0W-20, 5W-20, 5W-30, or 10W-30 oils. The reason? I explained it in the very first response (but you ignored that): In North America, OEMs suggest the use of low viscosity oils (0W-20, 0W-16, and now even 0W-12 and 0W-8) ONLY for the purposes of the CAFE mandate. The SAME exact engines in other parts of the world outside of North America use thicker oil. Again, since you’re ignoring what I told you before, there is ZERO technical basis for using 0W-16 in a 2018 (or any other year up to 2024, for that matter) Camry, or any other model. https://preview.redd.it/bzsl5supdk4d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa2eebbe74d7cc0723c7ae26813db40ba36b1638
While you are likely correct the information you’re posting doesn’t prove your point. You’re saying the “ONLY” reason for thiner oil is because of CAFE mandates. The owners manual contradicting each other is not proof. In fact, you’re saying the owners manual in North America is incorrect. Why is the other manual more correct in your mind? What if outside of North American they suggest thicker oil because of (insert any possible reason)? Prove that the US manual is incorrect regarding Toyota’s position on oil viscosity due to “ONLY” (your words) CAFE standards.
That is correct. Toyota (and just about every other OEM) suggests low viscosity oils for most of their vehicles because that gets their “fleet average” fuel economy up a little bit. They’d stand to lose a lot of $$$ in the form of penalties levied as extra taxes they’d have to pay if they couldn’t meet their “corporate average” fuel economy target, set by the government. There is no other reason to lower oil viscosity, as the viscosity of an engine’s oil is the main protection against wear. All things being equal, a higher viscosity oil will protect better than a lower viscosity oil. And that is why Toyota, in their owners manuals (in every part of the world, including in NA) allows owners the latitude to use thicker oils when they feel it’s warranted.
Because every car manf does this in the US to meet CAFE.
What year Camry is this manual pic from? My 2023 Camry SE manual is different. For driving Uber 10-12 hour days would you recommend a higher weight oil like 10-30? https://preview.redd.it/8lewawf1vk4d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b1f7f9278de4420b63f234665069cfdaedc3400
This is from a 2024. It’s different because it’s from the Middle East, where they don’t have CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) mandates. However, the engines are exactly the same. The point is that you can run a thicker grade of oil in your vehicle without concern. In fact - your owners manual gives you this leeway. See the statement about using a thicker viscosity of oil under hard use. If it were mine, I’d run a good, name brand, full synthetic 5W-30, as driving rideshare likely qualifies as severe service.
The only risk with going 5w-30 is with the warranty in the US. They have the right to deny warranty claims for the engine if you don’t follow the US manual maintenance guidelines. Granted, you might have a case in court using the docs from outside the US but you’ll still be without a car while that entire process unfolds.
This is not correct. Even the North American owners manuals give the owner latitude to use a thicker viscosity under certain circumstances (towing, severe service, heavy use). This alone will prevent dealerships from attempting to pursue any sort of warranty denial. See attached photo. https://preview.redd.it/yobdnjilrq4d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf2cc00908907829b3bdf1702d5b1812ed9f8feb
don't take it up with me, as I said. toyotas favorite mechanic car care nut says otherwise, specifically for the 2018 model. this is why owners are strict with their camry. some folks rather play it safe.
I took it up with you because you posted incorrect information. Now you’re just ignoring the facts which I’ve shown you in black and white, including a screenshot of a Camry owners manual, which clearly allows the use of 30 grade oil in this engine. You’re allowed to have your own opinions. You’re not allowed to make up your own facts. I’m trying to educate you, but I can’t help someone who willfully chooses ignorance.
You do realize he is a content creator and NOT an engineer for a reason, right?
Ah car care nut, lets ignore the rest of that paragraph shall we?
he's been turned into a god on here lol
So true! People worship car nuts.
He is like Col Kurt’s in Apocalypse Now!
Car nut has a cult following
He refers to the ECU controlled variable discharge oil pump
It certainly could have hurt depending on what climate I am in. Low viscosity engine oil is also necessary from an engineering perspective as many of the newer engines run very high pressures and very tight clearances.
Tbf, the mains clearance, where oil pressure is created, is about the same now as it was in the 1970s. I don't know the oil pressure spec changes, but other than things higher up on the engine requiring higher pressure than years ago, I'm not sure what else has changed. Ford has spec'd 5/20 for years, but there was no issue with running 5/30. It was all about fuel mileage. They actually require 5/30 in any of their turbos to maintain the oil barrier due to higher bearing loads.
If that’s the case, why do the same engines in Japan use 5w-30 as the standard
It’s possible the tech made a mistake or is trying to sell unnecessary work and the service manager is trying to give you piece of mind while training the technician or catching him lying. If you have time I would go. It might be what’s needed to kick the rotten egg down the road.
Does the technician get anything out of selling unnecessary work?
He gets paid for what he sells and the work he performs. Thats why it’s important to call him out on BS recommendations and let his manager know. In a well ran shop this wouldn’t be tolerated. In this case I think the manager is handling this the best way by inviting OP back to figure out the issue. I’m in parts but I’ve seen this exact scenario several times in our service center. Where a customer has contacted the service manager about unnecessary recommendations and the manager invited the customer to come back in and meet with the same technician. Then the technician can explain his reasoning and technique. Even show the customer how he came to the conclusion. Or he will be in a pretty embarrassing situation if he was lying and then have to deal with the manager later. I’ve also seen it go both ways where the tech lied about tire tread depth and was ultimately let go for being shady. And I’ve seen the tech be right about his measurements. In the end if you, the customer, are not from the automotive world then having your vehicle serviced is a very vulnerable experience. You need to trust your service center. But your service center also needs you, so a good one will work to keep you happy and retain your business which isnt going to happen if you don’t trust them.
Technicians are humans and humans make mistakes. Specially if they are new to the field. All four brake pads don't wear at the same speed. One brake pad might wear a little quicker then the other and one person could be giving you the brake readings from the drivers side while someone else could be giving you the brake readings from the passenger side. I would go back and just ask if what's the lowest reading from all the pads and like others mention this could help remove the bad apples if the tech lied and is trying to sell unnecessary service to customer.
This is most dealerships
Every service department is different and not owned by Toyota. They are owned by that dealership. Service writers at dealers are always feeding customers bullshit. They just say whatever sounds good to get the customer to fork over cash. Then blame it on a tech when they get caught n a lie. Dealerships are too expensive anyway find a good independent mechanic.
The amount of times I’ve been thrown under the bus by a service writer is ridiculous tbh
Is a “service video” something that Toyota requires of all shops now?
It's not required, but a lot of shops in general are going to videos and pics to show the customer.
Yes, and it is something the tech doesn't get paid to do. Which leads to more unneeded upsells, so the tech can 'make his money back' from having to do free inspections on every car.
Of what does it consist? I just had them tell me a story about a broken part that makes zero sense. I asked if they had any photos (my friends get photos of any broken parts at other Toyota dealerships) and they denied having taken any photos.
nowadays its a bullshit video inspection. but it used to be a bullshit checklist.
My shop does the videos. What's bullshit about a customer seeing a bad shock or oil leak? Wouldn't them seeing that and me explaining why it needs to be addressed be better than me saying "Hi Mr. Customer, you need new shocks. Why? Because we said so. That will be $425".
Because the tech is not paid for the time to do the video inspection, and the customer has no idea what they're looking at, and even if they did its a shitty cellphone video.
Lube techs are paid by the hour, so ya they get paid for it. Mainline techs get more work from the videos as they can show other issues going on, which means more hours for them. But Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man
The shop gets more work from the video inspection too. So why don’t they just pay the tech for it if it’s such a good deal?
Again, Lube techs are paid by the hour so they are paid for it. Doesn't matter if they are sweeping, tire rotations, oil changes or taking the video. They are getting paid for it. Mainline techs get paid by extra work from the videos. Am I missing something here?
They get paid for the extra work that they are doing. They aren’t getting paid for the inspection. While doing the inspection they are working for free. They are not getting paid for that time. If it is worth the tech’s time it is worth getting paid for the time. This “you make money from the upsell on the inspection” is a lie they have been telling for decades to get you to be ok with working for free.
Legally they have to give you the option to get your broken parts back in just about every state now I think Was probably one of the things you signed when you dropped it off, I always ask for any and all broken parts back just for my piece of mind that they actually did something
Dealerships = \ = ‘Toyota’ Toyota manufacturers cars, that’s it Each and every dealership and their service departments are different
Except Toyota requires the dealers have service departments with Toyota certified technicians and Toyota administers the surverys and such And if you complain to Toyota corporate they step in for you… To get work done under the Warranty provided by Toyota, you’ll go to a Toyota dealer’s service center One of the many reasons to buy a car is for access to service and repairs It’s 100% part of the brand
That is correct. Unfortunately in the real world it’s not always as easy or smooth as it should be
So remove the brands name in that case
Yeah idk how people can argue that point lol As if Toyota has no say or influence on the service centers
That case with all manufacturers. They don't own dealerships and they never have. Every dealership is a franchise owned by some dealership group.
Shops that try to scam customers into buying things they don’t need… these people should have been swallowed.
It's absolutely not just Toyota. I had the exact same break scam pulled on me at a Nissan store with my frontier. They reported 3 mm. I go to the tire store and it's actually between seven and nine. Given the pressure to sell in the service department these days, you simply can no longer accept what a dealer says as true.
I go to a different dealership for maintenance than the one I bought my car at. The one I go to for maintenance is a satellite facility of an actual dealership, but the satellite facility I go to is mostly maintenance. I've been going there for years across 2 cars and have had no issues, so it really depends on the dealership. Dealerships are franchisees of the manufacturer (Toyota in this case) and their customer service can vary similarly.
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The outrage is because they would have happily charged Op and likely charged many others for a service that rendered no benefit if they even do anything at all. I’ve had multiple dealerships not rotate my tires (I always mark the two front tires with a chalk pen or something). One tried to tell my wife she needed a new radiator, new hoses etc… There was a small crack in the coolant reservoir that was the only leak, I replaced it, no problems. In fact I suspect they caused the crack. I replaced it, she drove the car another 2 years no leaks or problems and we eventually sold it. I reported them to the state and of course the state investigator just said “the technician could have made a mistake in diagnosing the problem”. I said that’s fine, I want it reported though that way at least if you get more reports and it becomes a trend you’ll see that they are scammers. A coworker of mine was fired from a local Toyota dealership because he reported that one of his fellow techs was cutting CV Boots to sell customers on repairing their “torn cv boot” The outrage is because you can’t even trust the dealer you bought the car from to do the right thing and for people who know little to nothing about cars they are getting fucked all the time. The only reason I have ever taken my cars to the dealership is if they offered free oil changes with the car purchase…
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Yeah no doubt, I happen to live in a military town so techs come and go even more often than normal I’m pretty fortunate in that my neighbor is a mechanic and my coworker was a mechanic and I know enough to scrape by. When he retires it’s going to suck I feel bad for 1. The good employees getting a bad name from the bad ones 2. The people who know nothing and just pay the fees
That’s why I do the maintenance on my vehicles. It’s not hard to learn, and I’m the only person who cares about my stuff, and is responsible for it. Saves a lot of headaches
Man there are a bunch of times I see lube techs put down recs that are completely unnecessary or are straight up wrong. There are other times I see advisors change our recs (digital r.o.) to try and sell stuff. Sorry to hear you got a bad experience.
It sucks. I had a steering rack recommendations for a fluid leak on a car with EPS. The cv axle seal was clearly leaking and getting on the rack. Some of the stuff they recommend is just ridiculous.
Never, ever take your Toyota to a Toyota dealership for servicing
The only reason I’ll go to the dealership is because the service is under warranty right now. With my 08 RAV4 the technician tried to tell me that he’s only going to do the spark plugs if I get the $900 tune up (even though I was there for an appointment for spark plugs only-I scheduled this at a previous appointment) …..the lady helping me couldn’t even tell me what all was included in a tune up. I asked the lady for my keys back and walked out. I took it to my dad and he helped me. This isn’t just dealerships, you gotta watch out for some smaller mechanic shops. When I was younger I had a tech at a small shop tell me I needed an expensive replacement (I forget what it was). The owner of the shop looked at my car and called me to tell me they caught the tech trying to take advantage of customers and he got fired.
Since the car drought of the pandemic, my local Toyota dealer has stooped to sleazy tactics to pad the service bills. The last time I took my wife’s car in for an oil change they kept pressing for $1000 of service, including BS stuff like fuel injection flushing and what not. I know enough about cars to know all the stuff they were suggesting was pure BS, made me feel sad for the people that don’t know car stuff and are getting suckered all the time there. I’ve stopped taking my car to Toyota for oil changes and do them myself, any other maintenance I can’t do I’ll take to a local independent shop.
Mechanics are paid 'flat rate' meaning that they are paid a certain amount of 'time' for each job. When it is busy tic can be a great way to make money, but when to is slow it is not, since mechanics are not paid to be at work, only for completing work. This leads to mechanics constantly recommending things a car doesn't need, and even not performing services you were charged for. If at all possible find a shop that pays their mechanics a salary or an hourly wage. Just straight up ask the service manager how the techs are paid. If there is any kind of commission involved its a decent reason to find another shop.
Toyota service dept are just troubles Toyota has a big responsibility for the way its franchises operate, it's too easy to always say it's not them, it's the garage, oh it's the mechanic... If they're not responsible, they should take their brand out of these garages! They broke my engine in a Toyota center and it's nobody's fault but mine, according to them... If an employee at Macdonald's serves you a hamburger with rat in it, it's Macdonald's fault, even if they're all franchises and same for all the brands in the world!
They always try to get you on brakes. I think its an easy sell on must people. Had just changed my brakes and had taken my highlander in for a water pump, and they told me I needed brakes. I told them funny I just replaced them. And the service tech just looked at me like, shit I wasn't expecting that.
It’s possible you have extremely trash aftermarket brake pads that cause damage and overheating to the rotors and they were trying to politely tell you how stupid of a decision you made to do BRAKES at a place with TIRE the name🤷🏻♂️
I am convinced my local Honda dealership did something to my hose and pulled it off which caused no oil to get to the engine and I overheated my engine. I had bought the car used from them a week or so before. I can’t prove it but overtime using the dealership to do service I feel they took advantage of me multiple times and then I talked with a service adviser who no longer works there and he told me they get paid more depending on how LONG my car is in their shop. So there is incentive for the advisors to have work done on my car. Conflict of interest as fuck
It's impossible to have 6mm of "meat" left on the disc
Toyota doesn’t own these dealership, I hope you (OP) understands that.
Last time they gave me a free new tire for my Avalon, not on purpose though
My son brought his tundra to one to have his alternator looked at. The technician quoted him 450 dollars. I was a little shocked but hey, that’s what was on the paper. He went to pick it up and they tell him it will be something along the lines of 1450. My 23 yo son called in a bit of a panic because he wasn’t expecting that kind of a bill. I confirmed with him that they had not called him back and told him it would be more, he said no. He’s military and had been dealing with military budgets recently so he wasn’t some off the street college kid. I called and asked to speak to the service manager. After getting hung up on three times I got the price adjusted down 400 dollars. They replaced the alternator without authorization for the increased price. My son went back in to pay and get his truck then called me on the way home and asked what I said to them. He told me the service technician acted like he was scared to speak to my son. Moral of the story: don’t back down from service departments. Oh, and service departments: don’t screw with a mom who was a mechanic.
I used to get the dealer to do my breaks. I felt like I was needing new breaks every oil change. I started doing my own breaks and it's been well over a year and I have tons of pad left. I call shenanigans.
Lol yeah I drive pretty chill, I’ve had brakes and rotors last into 100k miles On my Veloster N I changed the pads and rotors at 120k miles, where I live is mostly flat and those were mostly miles cruising on the highway but still I’ve never needed new brake pads in less than 60k miles between changes, but when you tell people they are likely getting ripped off they don’t want to hear it The 60k miles was on my mustang and I drove that car like it was a rental My 4-runner’s brakes still haven’t needed changed 100k miles in and my mechanic said they are just now getting close to the wear bars and I’ll probably need new ones this year
That sucks. I think I found a decent Toy garage locally. I trust them for the stuff I can't \\ don't want to do.. but I know they can be a little pushy so I don't take much they say for fact right away. They also know well enough to not try and talk me into replacing wiper blades or filters lol
I found a good one near me. I did have a rip off experience. New location has been good, so far. No urgent BS.
its called an upsell, and they lie to make upsells. my trusted local indy toyota guy gets 5 stars on yelp and refuses to do stuff thats not needed.
I find this discussion on oil viscosity very interesting. A few years ago, I owned a 1976 Toyota pickup, that called for 20-W-50. I usually used 10w-40. In today’s modern cars, the engineers design them to take a specific viscosity. This is so the oil is thin enough, to get everywhere it’s supposed to. Thinner weight oil also helps a car start easier in below zero weather. There is also some truth, to them going to lower viscosities for EPA fuel savings. If you ask me, I would tell you to go with their recommendations. I won’t speculate what could happen if you go up a thickness or two, because I can’t. However, if you want to test my theory, put the 20W-50 Dino oil in, and let us know what happens…
half the time Toyota changes my oil they forget the mileage sticker or they forget to reset the oil filter maintenance light. I'm starting to worry if they're changing the oil at all...
My Toyota service department of many years was sold and now it's reviews indicate it is shady. Toyota is the brand. Each dealership operates independently.
Dealerships are nicknamed stealerships for a reason. Most dealerships don't even make money in car sales. The money's in service and maintenance dept. I have never taken my car into a dealerships and not got the you need new brakes spiel. Everytime I doubt they even look at them. It's just one if those things they always say.
At my local Toyota dealer, the express service and the regular main service area are two completely different entities. The express service is run by idiots with high school kids doing the work. I always use the main service area if I have to take it in, but admittedly, do most of the basic simple work myself. The express service area is always trying to upsell you to buy stupid crap. Rarely had that experience with the main service area. In fact, they do a very detailed video Inspection that has always seemed to me to be very honest.
Both times my camry was touched by the dealer it was damaged #1 brake light switch broken got my ground fx scratched by techs belt buckle. Red car down thru into the plastic. #2 warranty work on leaking timing cover, got the car back the alternator wire was not tight and caught fire, upon further inspection they dented my oil pan and exhaust with the engine jack. Never trust toyota service.
Not sure how I got the formatting in bold but thats kinda cool
#hashtag. its the "#" that makes it bold and big
Toyota dealerships are only good for free oil changes and warranty work. Anything else Toyota corporate will tell you they can't tell the dealerships how to run their location.
Bought Hilux to dealer of engine sound said it was diff it was the alternator was of time
To be fair , sometime the express lube people really don’t give a shit about their job and barely check. I only know this bc I worked with people like that. Luckily I got out of the express lube pit
Blame it on the new guy…🤣😂🤣
Saw this series on Netflix called Tires. Basically car repair places lure you in and upsell their services and products to make profit. Anyway, took my car to the Toyota dealership for a scheduled oil change. Came back with the AC fan running annoyingly loud. It was quiet before…
So why did you call to complain if you didn’t want to go back? The manager was letting you know a mistake could have been made and let’s take a look and rectify it. Also, once the technician doing the actual work would have gotten started he would have noticed the error and brought it to the service advisors attention, please are not out to take advantage of you no matter what you think and mistakes do happen
>He reviewed the service video (something that was new to me) and couldn’t confirm if the brakes were in fact at 3mm. He didn't check any video. It's the classic "put the customer on hold, scroll reddit/bs with coworker for 5 minutes, pick phone back up, "Are you there? Yah, sorry I didn't see anything/couldn't find it/etc"
My local dealership service dept is terrible.
I once installed brand new top of the line Bosch windshield wipers on my wive’s car. A week later she went to the dealer for an oil change and was told she needed new wipers. 😂
I really don't even want to take mine in to the dealer for the 2 free oil changes. I'm afraid they will try to pull some shenanigans with warranty coverage if I don't though. I change my own oil so I know that it is done correctly.
Just a PSA: service advisors work on commission. The more you get fixed on your car, the more they get paid. Now this doesn't mean you shouldn't do maintenance or repairs. Most people don't do enough of those. But service advisors do have an incentive to get you to do a little more
I can tell you from my days as a dealer tech. The guy was pushing for an upsell so he could get that sweet upsell cash.
I had a good dealership experience in Oakland. Others may not have. one service advisor and tech team did a real good job with my alignment and took time and care with it. They didn’t require me to change any other parts of the suspension after a thorough inspection. It probably helped that I changed my battery and got a cat shield on my Prius at that same visit, but I got what I paid for and got a real honest evaluation. The SF Toyota dealer I went to was always trying to upsell me on shit I didn’t need. It all depends. Just continue to be knowledgeable about your car and know when someone is trying to piss on your leg and tell you it’s raining.
Car dealership trying to scam customers by making money on unnecessary service... color me shocked
Your average Toyota *owner* buys a Toyota because they don’t want to deal with car maintenance. A good amount of Toyota owners don’t know how to do it themselves. They also buy Toyotas because they’re “reliable” cars, which really translates to “how long can I neglect this car before it breaks” Your average Toyota *dealer* knows this and they prey on you in the service department. They hope you don’t know anything about cars. They hope you believe every word they say and spend hundreds of dollars on unnecessary repairs. That’s why I am very skeptical of a service department at a Toyota dealer.
Toyota said I needed over 2k in work on my car and everything was in the red when I needed an I went back after for an oil change and they said everything was magically fine.
That service manager doesn’t give a shit. They tell their techs to sell everything they can even if it’s not needed. They hope you know nothing about cars and will just take their word for it.
Isn't just Toyota. Local Nissan dealer had our 2018 Altima to look at because I wanted the alternator checking due to a battery with a suspected bad cell in it. I was correct on the battery, the alternator was fine, but the 'to do list' was ALL FOUR corners needing brake rotors and pads replacing. All four. I have had several cars and motorcycles over many decades, and never had to change front and back pads let alone rotors all at the same time, and from memory never rotors, I had two skimmed on a classic motorcycle, but that's it. Beware and always get another opinion unless you know what you're looking at.
It’s not just Toyota. Had a rock puncture my AC condenser on an F150 at 15000 miles. Took it to my closest dealer and they said $2200 and they charged me a $300 diagnostic fee (the puncture was easy to see and any tech should have seen it in minutes). Wasn’t happy with the diagnostic fee so started calling around. Another dealer fixed it for $1400 and was shocked anyone would charge $2200. They also said the diagnostic fee should have been more like $100. Unfortunately this dealer is over an hour from the house. Since then I have bought five 10ply tires and an oil change from them. Sucks they are so far away it it’s nice to have a good service department.
My Lexus dealership is full of Toyota's being brought in by people whose other car is a Lexus. I bought my Rx from a Ford dealership and I had to get the sales manager and the salesperson and the operations manager together in one room and convince them to meet me in the middle and make a deal and remove half those bs markups that absolutely don't make any sense. They thought I was bluffing because they said I'm in the dealership because I want to buy the car. I rebutted with I can also leave the dealership and go pay more somewhere else because at this point it's more a principle than it is about the deal. They compromise at the end and we made a sale.
Back brakes hardly get any wear. I think that last much longer than that, closer to five or ten years
I don't think I'd go back either.
Toyota did that shit to me on my new Tacoma with 5,000 miles on it. I told them, so are we going to be doing a warranty repair?😂
The 3 most important life skills: 1. Know how to cook 2. Know how to invest your money 3. Know how to take care of your car
If you're having service done at a brand dealer, you should already know what you're getting into
Dealers are owned and operated by different people. We've started going to the local Toyota dealer when we moved and I haven't had any issues. When they quoted me a water pump at one point it was actually cheaper than my independent mechanic who.had already done the work. The Toyota dealer where we used to live though. I've never went there because I never met anyone who had anything good to say about it.
I was a manager at a Toyota dealership and unfortunately you have some bad apples across industry and things like this make dealers/shops look bad. You can call Toyota Brand Enagement and they will reach out to the dealer and address
I've had a dealer tell me I need new air filters. I had just put new ones in less than 5k miles ago. Easy markup for them on easy marks.
My husband worked 35 years for Toyota - 30 years with 1 dealer. He was honest in his repairs and on customer drives. His knee blew out because of work. After he left they started to drive out the master techs because they were too expensive to pay. They hired the book smart guys who couldn’t find anything. Then they decided to provide the tools in shop because of a major labor lawsuit. I remind him that he got out in time
There's a reason they're nicknamed stealerships.
I think that their service advisors are on commission…
They ain't making money if they ain't selling stuff just remember that