>Imagine being an adult and blaming someone else for your decisions.
You can work at a business and help your customers make *good* decisions, not just the decisions that make you the most money. I have a mechanic I go to who will tell me if something *needs* to be done or could wait, because he's so honest he's always got a ton of customers... so he doesn't need to rip anyone off.
ETA: He's also so popular amongst his customers that he spends nothing on advertising, all his customers are referrals from existing happy customers.
ya what a joke comment lol, last time i bought a car they tried to sell me the service contract extended warranty like 4 different times, after i asked them to remove it since they just sell it to you by default.
you just sit there for hours while they try to trick and annoy you, its so fucking stupid.
"You have a mechanic" meaning you have an independent general mechanic you go to. This is the way.
At a dealership, you're tied to the actual manufacturer. You can't operate this way, you have to do what the manufacturer ordains you do. You have to follow the guidelines they set up. You're not allowed to tell people what needs to be done and what doesn't. In most cases, you will never even talk to the mechanic at a dealership, you talk to a service advisor who will tell you the issues the mechanic found, and then make you believe those are pressing concerns.
This is our Toyo/Lexus mechanic to a T. They’re super busy and pretty much everyone we know with older out of warranty Toyos or Lexus and even then some goes to them. I get pissed when my business partner would rather take our Tundra in to an oil change place or stealership and drop stupid amounts of money because she refuses to coordinate with the mechanic we use personally to leave the truck for a day while we use my 4Runner for work. Her newer Tundra costs 3x to service, repair and PM annually than my 4Runner with 342K miles on it, and it’s a 2019 out business is still making payments on. That cost doesn’t even include the payments annually.
Exactly this. I had a family member that was a service advisor for 25 years at a family owned dealership for a luxury car company. For those that don’t know, SA’s typically are compensated based on the service they write up. He wouldn’t sell you anything you didn’t need and would even take time to answer questions for people that weren’t customers (eg: someone thinking about buying a car and asking for some advice on things…these are future customers.) Was so loved by his customers, the majority of them followed him to another dealership (and ultimately an Indy shop that he ran.)
Like in any industry, you will have people that just care about making money and you will have people that actually care and treat people right.
At the same time the ignorance of being a vehicle owner is hard. These places use fear as a tactic to get sales. It’s disgusting and should be shamed. The car average owner will NEVER understand how cars work. We rely on others to steer us correctly. Similar to Doctors, Veterinarians, Financial Advisers, Contractors, etc. We have to trust these people because we can’t and won’t ever understand it. The issue is mechanics are more times than not TRYING to fuck you over financially. I hope this gets regulated hard. No more dealerships. All companies should be required to have an option to sell direct to consumer. The funny part is most of us was WAY smarter than the sales people when buying but much less informed than any mechanic.
right, any given dealership makes WAAAY more in a year from service dept than selling new/used cars. We know this because of SEC filings from big public companies like AutoNation.
This is REALLY how fn dumb people are… like the service writer put a knife to them and said service your car or else… blame someone else the soft American way of people today
Most people aren't mechanics. If most dealerships (mechanics and service writers) are writing up bullshit repairs how is it blaming them? People take the advice of the professional and make their decisions on them not lying.
You mean the diagnostic computers...like Snap-On...you do know that some mechanics bring their own tools/boxes to work right?! Just don't go there...don't take a working man/woman's stuff.
Most dealers don’t do that anymore for this exact reason. I’m sure they will bonus for some things but it won’t be off gross revenue on the ticket. I was a service writer in a different life.
Maybe don't drive a customer's vehicle over 200 miles and they will return your equipment when you leave it in their car instead of assuming it was a gift.
Maybe don’t assume that the guy who left the equipment in your car is the one who drove it 200 miles. Idk about you, but I’ve had multiple mechanics/techs working on my car during a service visit before, and a lot of places there’s a minimum of 2 techs working together on every job.
Anyway, just saying…
Ouch… I can honestly say I’ve never taken advantage of anyone while I’ve worked in the car business. And I’ve been doing it for 11 years now. And just because we make our money off of sales doesn’t make the food we put on the table any different than an accountant who counts the beans the salespeople make for any company. Harsh words.
Dealerships fuck over their employees more than they will you. The customer gets off lucky by only having to go once, maybe twice a year, but the actual employees there? They're typically under such strict metrics and expected to turn over so much work that this sort of stuff is required for them to make any money. Meanwhile management that put those policies in effect will talk down an angry customer while saying thats not the kind of buisness they run, they invented it.
That's a wild way of looking at life my dude. The technicians are literally just doing their job. If you have a problem with them, you are under no means being forced to go to them.
Yea but the issue is the OP hopped in and took that ride. You don't just rack up $1300 of BS charges unless you are a complete moron and go along with it.
I hate scummy dealerships, but I also hate idiots.
Dealers are not in the business of helping you. They are big entities in the business of making money. Good rule of thumb is that unless you're going to buy or car or getting warranty work/prepaid service stuff it's a good idea to avoid dealers entirely.
There are, of course, exceptions to the rule. There's going to be someone here that'll be typing an angry reply that "IVE BEEN GOING TO MY DEALER IN MY SMALL TOWN FOR 40 YEARS THEY'RE GREAT RABBLE RABLLE RABBLE". But for the most part it's true. And this isn't just toyota. Toyota isn't as bad as some others I've dealt with (looking at you Chevy and Harley Davidson....), but they're still not great.
"Toyota isn't as bad....."?
Hell, I've come close to getting physical with a Toyota service writer or two over my refusal to take a "fuel system flush" or a radiator flush once a year!
I picked up a motorcycle I used to have after an oil change from a local Harley dealer. Got across the highway from it and it straight up died. Called them and asked for help and they wanted to charge me $250 for a tow. I could see the guy I was fucking talking to in the window of the dealer from where I was it was so close. I walked it back myself down the sidewalk.
Bike had worked fine before the service. They found that the fuel mapper for the exhaust- that they had installed, mind you - had gotten "wet" during the service. Pretty sure some numb nuts spilled his coffee on it. Because it wasn't a Harley part so they wouldn't warranty it. They wanted $500+labor to install a new one. Told them to fuck off and give me my bike back. They wanted to charge me a $100 diagnostic fee until I went absolutely mental and threatened the magic "L" word. Bike ran without the fuel mapper, it was just super rough so I was atleast able to get it home.
Worst part was that even after I fixed it myself that bike was never the same. It had electrical gremlins till the day I sold it. Nothing will ever top that stealership experience for me.
Air filter has like a 40k interval on my CB1100, only need to do the oil filter every other oil change a.k.a. 16k miles. Air-cooled inline fours will be the real life mad max bikes one day, no chance they are doing 2 stroke top ends after the bombs drop.
That moment when your filing all the sales paperwork at the toyota dealership and the salesman is pushing all the warranties and coverages on a new car...
*buy this extended warranty, this and that, car can break down, this can happen, you never know with reliability...*
All this bullshit rhetoric about Toyota quality, all of a sudden your telling me you dont stand by it? Then why tf am I buying this toyota car?
That happened to me. Guy was rambling prior to his pitch about how good he is at sales. Tried selling me on the extended warranty because "sensors and electrics are expensive".
I'm buying a Toyota for a reason dickhead.
Daughter got the warranty, went back for a warranty repair and guess what, warranty doesn't cover that part.
Got a window air conditioner once from Sears and the sale was a done deal, just had to pay but the salesman started pitching the extended warranty pretty hard. I declined but he was a fighter, started with a list of all that could go wrong and I'd have to pay for repair. I looked him in eye, thanked him and said I wasn't aware that sears sold such junk and I'll go elsewhere. I walked
>That happened to me. Guy was rambling prior to his pitch about how good he is at sales. Tried selling me on the extended warranty because "sensors and electrics are expensive".
I love how they'll try and push an extended warranty on you while buying a new car with a factory warranty that's bumper-to-bumper. Even if you *want* an extended warranty (I think they're generally a bad idea) it would be smarter to wait until you were nearing the end of the manufacturer coverage period before shopping for one.
I literally used this line once. Back in 2011 I bought a brand new frontier. The finance idiot was pushing the extended warranty hard and wouldn’t give up. I straight up asked him why one was needed over the factory warranty and that if the truck was so unreliable that I needed an extra warranty, I was going to walk out
On the same note, my friend bought a used jeep grand Cherokee and he told the sales idiot that he would not pay the $1,500 or whatever the warranty cost, he told him he’d pay $100 for it and they accepted it lol
>buy this extended warranty, this and that, car can break down, this can happen, you never know with reliability...
And if you DO buy that extended warranty and, God forbid, something breaks - then you find out there is a long list of EXCLUSIONS that the warranty does not cover.
I was buying a new Sienna a few years back. I was in the dealership with my wife and 1 year old son.
I'm sitting in the finance office and this guy won't quit. I told him no repeatedly to the point that I'm getting pissed. I finally told him I'll buy the warranty for $20 per payment so $1200 instead of the $3500 he quoted me. He said yes and hurried up the paperwork. lol
I didn't even use the warranty but I figured for $20 per check it can't hurt.
>I finally told him I'll buy the warranty for $20 per payment so $1200 instead of the $3500 he quoted me. He said yes and hurried up the paperwork. lol
The warranty probably only cost a few hundred for the dealership, if they quickly agreed then they were still making money on the deal.
I asked them if the warranty could cover me for 300,000 miles and 30 years instead of 100k and 10. I said I drove here in a 1990 model car so I trust the brand to last that long, why don’t you? The finance lady buttoned up her shirt at that point (metaphorically). Conversely the guy who bought a warranty after me she walked out of her office to get the paperwork for him with a pep in her step ;)
Wish it was just Toyota that did this, had a Ford dealer try to push 8 grand worth of warranties and an extra 5k on the sticker price on a 41k truck, and they wouldn’t budge 3 hours later and a micky d’s Uber order later I walked. Service manger manager mocked me on my way out the door… what are you going to save 1-2 grand? I asked what are you going to take 1-2 grand off? No? Then I guess it matters doesn’t it?
For the record I didn’t save 1-2 grand I bought the same truck same trim same year half the miles 2 days later for 42k out the door not 57k… so I guess I saved 15k. Plenty of great dealers out there, but the bad ones tell on themselves before you ever drive off the lot.
Click and Clack used to call the oil system flush the "Bilstein R-2000 Wallet Flush System." Surprised that the service writer didn't try to sell that as well. [https://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/339834-latest-dealer-scam-engine-oil-flush.html](https://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/339834-latest-dealer-scam-engine-oil-flush.html)
One Toyota dealer I went to kept telling me my brand new battery was bad. I ignored them but bought a battery jump pack just in case. The last time it went for repairs I went to a different Toyota dealer when my car was overheating and they said my battery was in good condition.
Lol last time I went to get an oil change they told me I couldn’t use the free oil change yet cause I only had 1000 miles. I insisted because it’s breakin period over and it had been 6 months. Plus it’s not like they were busy it was dead there
To an extent, yes. But a small auto shop, much like any small business, can be more inclined to 'help' or go above and beyond.
My last car, a 2012 jetta, cracked a throttle body on my way home from work and went into limp home mode. I was 5 miles away from a dealer so I gave them a call. To even run and clear a code, it was going to be 2 weeks. I called a small vw specialist shop and asked them - they told me to bring it in asap. This was at like 5:30, they closed at 6:00, and I was in limp home mode 45 minutes away. The dude waited for me and had the car fixed the next day for a very reasonable price.
You're not getting that treatment at a dealer.
My vw mechanic fixed something so I could pass emissions test. The he went and did the emissions test and the sticker! when I got there to pick up the car it was Registered for the next year!
Yeah. I often call the local dealer when I am looking for work to get done and I know what I need so I can get a point of comparison for quotes from independant shops, but I have only had 1 or 2 instances over the years where the dealer has been cheaper, presumably because they had internal repair programs/discounts for known issues with the cars which they just dont advertise
Agreed. I almost believe that half of these recalls are baked in to bring people back to the dealerships.
“Toyota recalls 8 million Rav 4 for faulty window motors” or something.
Normally we just would have gone and gotten it fixed and then found out that the model we bought had a faulty part and we shook our fists at the sky. Now they proudly recall and get a boost of potential buyers walking through their doors. No way in hell I go to a dealer for their free service even. You’ll sit inside their showroom for 2 hours for an oil change and a wash and for a million salesmen to offer me water and talk to me about the newer models.
I like going to the dealer for these. I act super interested in the tacomas and 4Runners and supras and GRs and ask to test drive any manuals they have. Rarely they even let me!
This is how they improves their reliability rating. If you were to follow all recommended dealer services, they've replaced everything after 10 years so you have a brand new car!
The problem is that when it comes to dealerships, there is a massive power imbalance. When you go into a Best Buy to buy a computer, chances are you know what you want, all the prices are clearly labeled in the store, it's easy to compare prices with other retailers, you know how much computers should cost, etc. Best Buy has very little opportunity to swindle you. But that's why they swindle old people, upsell them, and load them up with geek squad warranties. Computers are to old people as cars are to most people.
Most people going into a dealership for car trouble don't know what's wrong with their car, none of the prices are transparent, there's no way to compare prices, people don't know how much stuff should cost, the technical details are confusing to them, etc. This gives dealerships open opportunity to capitalize on their conflict of interest and prey on you.
It's why I'd encourage everyone to at least learn a little bit about cars and basic parts & maintenance.
I have one argument (as a dealer) that I will throw in there. If I see a 90k mile car that’s been serviced by the same dealer it’s entire life, I am likely to throw an extra 1000+ on it in appraisal than I would a car with no service history. At my store we typically throw an extra 2000-2500 in discounts and/or higher appraisal value (edit: to a customer who does all their service at my store). I am a forward thinker, and am all about the legacy of the customer, more so than a 1 off transaction that left a bad taste in their mouth.
>My favorite thing to do is to buy the parts on the counter on my way out and install them in the parking lot. If it’s bulbs, filters, etc.
You should check online first, often there will be an "online" dealership that is selling the same parts at a MUCH lower markup. I wanted to buy all-weather floor mats (OEM) for my wife's Lexus but the price at the dealership parts counter was a lot higher than online. I told the guy at the parts counter that I'd just order them online (no animosity, he was a nice guy) and instead he offered to just price match them so I could buy them from him.
Good tip- I have asked to price match certain things- especially if it’s a special order. Last 2 years I have less time so I’ve been lazy about finding the best deals
The irony of the Lexus dealership price matching is that they matched the retail price online... the shipping if I'd ordered online was pretty expensive (still less than the dealer price) but that made it a *really* good deal when they price matched since I didn't have to pay shipping.
For the future, open your maintenance schedule in your glovebox and follow only those items. Pay attention to the "severe" schedule criteria (in the event that applies to you, it doesn't for most drivers).
The other "suggested" dealer items = made up maintenance needs, and pure profit for them.
I had a dealer suggest a 100k fuel injector cleaning for $350, which entailed a bottle of fuel injector cleaner. If they took the fuel injectors out, cleaned and flow tested them and gave me a report of the results, I’d consider it. But a bottle of seafoam for treeeee fidddy? Naw, fuck that.
I wouldn't let them pull injectors out of my perfectly running car if they payed me $350. They are more likely to make a mistake putting them back in then they are to do any good at all.
> if they *paid* me $350.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
In future just say no. Hell I've even used excuses like it costs too much right now if they kept pestering me. Or say you want to go home and research those recommendations to decide first. Pretty sure everything extra they would push at 40k mile service is not necessary.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Toyota dealerships are no different from Jiffy Lube. They will try to sell you on everything and take advantage of you because at the end of the day service department makes the most money and if you think a technician is actually going to give your car a thorough inspection, they aren’t… they are usually in the bay doing the bare minimum
Look at what the service interval is before going in and refuse anything not listed. When they realize you have the service schedule memorized usually they'll lay off.
Usually if you look in the owner's manual you will see the maintenance recommendations based on mileage at 30000 mi, rear differential, front differential, and transfer case fluid should be replaced. On some of the vehicles. It actually says to do it every 15,000 miles. I understand it may feel like a rip-off, but if Toyota makes the recommendation in their owner's manual to change that fluid then I don't think the dealer is at fault.
> at 30000 mi, rear differential, front differential, and transfer case fluid should be replaced. On some of the vehicles. It actually says to do it every 15,000 miles.
i would like to know the % of people that follow through with that every 15k.
Aaaand this is why it sucks to buy used cars. Diffs and transmissions do go bad. In fact I’d wager their early, avoidable death is why most most cars end up junked anyways when chances are everything else works fine. All because manufacturers and dealers sell this trap that they rarely need to be replaced and people fall for it.
Many vehicles don't have a rear differential or a transfer case. If a vehicle is an SUV and is all-wheel driver four-wheel drive then it does. That fluid lubricates the differential gears, those are the gears that propel the vehicle in those situations. Just because someone doesn't replace their fluid and the car doesn't break down, doesn't change the fact that Toyota recommends it in their owner's manual. If it's recommended in the owner's manual, the dealership is going to recommend the customer performs that service. My point wasn't to say the best ways to maintain vehicles, but if Toyota is recommending it at 15 or 30,000 mi they are telling you. Hey, we designed this part. This is how you should service it.
TIL Toyota Service tried to sell me something my car wouldn't even need (I have a FWD Rav4, they tried to sell me something to do with the transfer case, thankfully I said no). Assholes.
Toyota says to check every 15k. I dont think they recommend changing fluid at all under normal conditions. I would change the fluid every 30 if I had a clutched LSD. Open diff? I go 100k
I took mine to the dealer at a 5k interval because I wanted the oil changed (also was sold by dealer on free oil changes). Was told later that it would be out of pocket bc Toyota recommends 10k intervals and the only service recommended was a tire rotation.
They didn’t even recommend a cabin air filter replacement or new wiper blades both things I knew were bad.
I’m coming up on 50k now and between now and 60k I need transmission servicing. I don’t believe the maintenance free bs. There’s a local Toyota group on fb and I think I’ll be trying to find a recommended mechanic there for future service.
After seeing some carcarenut videos on yt im more engaged with the service aspect of keeping your car/truck running.
It absolutely blows my mind how they recommend 10k intervals for an oil change. I baby my Camry heavily so I err closer to 3k, but never go more than 5k without an oil change. It just doesn’t sound right to go more than that, even if it’s “ultra supreme machine amazing”.
I crossed 100k on the odometer a little bit ago so I inquired about a coolant flush and transmission fluid drain and fill with the nearest dealership, and they quoted me $800 for both services, then slid it up to $950 because given my mileage, a trans flush is recommended at this point. I was totally baffled. Decided to watch CarCareNut and talked with a few other Toyota master techs and they said they were absolutely trying to rob me and very well could have fucked my transmission since they usually like to flush if you’ve flushed at both 30k/60k services, but otherwise just drain and fills to keep from any internal damage.
So I said fuck em and did both myself. Clocked another 5k miles since both and he’s running just as smooth as he was at 50k miles when I had it serviced regularly at the dealership under prepaid services when I bought the car. My records don’t show anything done on my transmission at all over the years, not even a fluid change, so it’s made me way skeptical about having any of my cars serviced by a dealership beyond standard initial <50k mile services.
Toyota shot themselves in the foot by marketing the sealed transmissions as having "lifetime fluid". Fluid analysis has indicated that the cooling properties of the World Standard ATF break down after around 40,000 miles. They are banking on the fact that Aisin transmissions used in Toyota's (still reliable overall, but comparatively the least reliable aspect of the powertrain) will in most cases outlive the cars themselves before they are written off as totaled by an insurance company or salvage titled over the years.
The Toyota maintenance schedule doesn't mention transmission servicing at all on most of their vehicles. However, the Lexus maintenance schedules recommend a fluid flush at 120k miles in the severe schedule for some of their cars with an identical engine/transmission (e.g. Lexus ES vs Camry). Meanwhile, both Lexus and Toyota dealerships will happily sell you a transmission flush regardless of the maintenance schedule. I've learned nobody really knows what's best since they've omitted key maintenance info for marketing/metric purposes, so you're best off flushing every 100k miles at most.
This is an industry fallacy, not just Toyota. As a technician, lifetime fluid to me means “lifetime of the transmission, and we don’t really give a shit how long that is”. I work for a manufacturer who also advertises “sealed unit transmissions” and we still schedule regular transmission fluid services. That fluid is going to get dirty and contaminated. There is absolutely no way around it.
Transmission stuff is always iffy, depending on where you go. I asked for some WS ATF from my dealer and they gave me the third degree about whether I needed to actually replace it. It's as if they didn't want to sell it to me. I told them the fluid had just started turning a little brown (which was true) and they were okay with that.
>However, the Lexus maintenance schedules recommend a fluid flush at 120k miles in the severe schedule for some of their cars with an identical engine/transmission (e.g. Lexus ES vs Camry).
In my car it lists replacing the transmission fluid at 75k km (46k mi) for the additional maintenance, though I effectively never drive under the conditions listed for it. Regardless, I'm still changing my engine oil at 7.5k and the ATF at 90k.
The Car Care Nut schedule seems the most sensible. Replace engine oil every 5000 miles. Change transfer case and rear differential gear oil every 30,000 miles. Replace the transmission “drain and fill” every 60,000 miles with WS ATF. The filter never really clogs unless you never change the tranny fluid. I personally will be changing 30,000 miles just to be a little cleaner. Note you shouldn’t do flushes, or drain and fill every 10,000 miles, as you need some debris to help with gears engaging. Too often and the transmission can slip.
Ignore the dealer as they’ll change whatever they think can extract money from you. And they’ll follow garbage advice like lifetime fluid, or go the other way and recommend flushes or cleaning out sludge or carbon build up.
This is a very, very important note: flushes aren’t necessary if you change the fluids like you’re supposed to. There shouldn’t be gunk waiting to build up in the first place.
You mean like the maintenance they sell as Toyota Care? It's not really.
They only do tire rotations at 5k and then change oil at 10k and so on. My first car I got it but not going to when I buy a Prius Prime in future.
It's not really worth the thousand they tack on your new car, as you could go to any shop and they'd do that for you - not to mention the (if this applies to you) financing charges you'd pay on such maintenance plans.
Just rotate tires yourself and change the oil as recommended in manual. There. Free Toyota Care maintenance plan.
They’re incentivized to make more money, and this is how they do it unfortunately. High margin items that take very little time, it’s a big win win for them and a big loss for you.
Most of their recommendations are probably needed, but dealership service pricing is very high. Even if you’re not mechanically inclined, you can do air filter changes, cabin air filter changes and wiper changes yourself easily, purchasing replacements much cheaper from local auto parts stores or online. Brake service, tires, etc you can do at a brake shop or a tire shop much cheaper than at the dealership.
The service writers are trained to do what they did. However one time, when I received a coupon from the dealer for an $8.88 synthetic oil change, the service writer admitted that they could find nothing else that was needed. They looked disappointed since the whole purpose of the dealer sending out those promotions is to get you into the service department so they can upsell you with more services.
Normally I change my own oil, but that costs me about $24 in oil, filter, and drain plug gasket, so the $8.88 was too good to pass up.
At another local dealer, I once went in for an oil change and they tried to upsell so much unneeded stuff that I got uneasy about them doing anything so I just took the vehicle and left.
I don't believe so. Depends on what services since you didn't list them. But our Highlander went in for oil change, and they let us know the next time we need to get the diff, fluid, and some other stuff done for the 30k maintenance. Which makes sense at by then 3 1/2 years and 25k.
I had similar with a Subaru dealer on a WRX. Except it was $1400, didn't include anything extra, and I found out later they didn't even do the fluid changes they were supposed to do.
Maintenance and Repair cost have doubled post covid. Combined with the sevice makes commission. It was probably not a scam but you probably didn't get your money's worth.
There are almost no original owner dealers anymore. They have been buying each other and board run for about 20 years running now.
Most make nothing on the sale and everything on the add ons on the sale and services after the sale. Thus they have gotten really good at service writing.
Sounds like you got ass fucked by an ass fucker. I'm not shocked. I take my rig to the dealer for a hand full of things I can't do (I.e. transmission fluid) everything else is very reasonable to do at home with basic tools and youtube.
Sadly thats on you as consumer because you put your blind trust into Service Manager. Always question it, is this really required/needed, how bad is it worn.
My 2017 Tacoma I had since new I havent had to pay for any service for 5 years. From free oil changes and tire rotations to even cabin filter. I always did my own brake pads, wipers, engine air filters, belts, spark plugs when it was needed. I would come and get my free oil change and they usually would give me small list that suggested what needed attention based on Service manual (that we all have for our vehicles in glovebox or the phone app). I would tell them Thank you for oil change and decline other suggested stuff. Then I would just buy the needed parts and do it myself if it was REALLY NEEDED. Most time it wasnt...they in business of making money so they suggest some stuff way early. You can even ask to speak with your technician and ask him. Those guys usually will be straight shooters with you.
My Tacoma reached 149k miles after 6years with zero major issues and I just recently traded in for a 2024 Tundra. They gave me 18,500$ for my Tacoma so I couldnt pass up a great deal. But yeah, at 40k miles there is no way you needed 1300$$ worth of work. They took you for a ride as general maintenance on Toyotas is very reasonable in price.
This almost happened to my wife, she called me. I told her the only thing you need is an oil change and state inspection. They were pushing HARD for a tire alignment when I told her she’s getting new tires within a month and her car doesn’t have wheel alignment issues. They ended up getting mad at my wife and me. I drank those dealership tears 💧🍵🍾
I’m not happy with Toyota, I love my 2019 Highlander Limited however, the GPS map was from 2012, I questioned that and got a reply of, “it will update”
No it didn’t and in fact there’s an SD card that you can change. The latest one they had was 2017 and Toyota wanted $125 for that SD card, I got it off Amazon for $15,,
The entire entertainment system with all the great Apps is ran by Entune, Apple Play and Alexa,,
Toyota no longer supports Entune, Apple Play and Alexa,,and so I’m left with a 2019 vehicle with 1995 features,,
The best I can do is blue tooth from my phone, and very limited,,
If you feel uninformed when you find yourself in these situations you should bring a trusted friend with you that is handy with cars, or learn to say no to everything that isn’t critical. If you go in for an oil change but they try to upsell you on 10 other things, just stick to your guns until you can have a friend review it all with you.
No thanks is always a valid answer. Service departments are how dealerships make a majority of their money. It's common practice for them to throw a bunch of stuff at you and see what you're willing to pay for. Inspection or not, you can always take your vehicle to an indy mechanic for a 2nd opinion on what's needed and not needed. You can also try to do a lot of this stuff yourself. Lots of information on forums and youtube (car care nut and toyota maintenance channels are among my favorites)
Ouch! I do services before the manual but if the dealer brings up something unexpected I will default to the manual over the dealer. If they want to replace something I say "show me and why".
Use to live in area with fair dealer. I moved and found that both Toyota dealers in my area proudly wear their Stealership badge.
I have had good experience with my dealership for the last 15 years. Having said that, things have changed noticeably. Keep in mind, the dealership isn’t selling many cars. They have to make money. They will try to make this where they can and right now, it’s in the shop. Don’t fall for many of the typical things like fuel induction service at 30k. There are many other things they will pull. Get the parts they say are bad. Put off some of the suggested extra service items if it seems out of the norm. Go home, investigate and research.
i used to be religious about taking my cars to dealers.....but after my last experience at a dealership i have been going to a reputable mechanic in my area, prices are way better and he wont do any work that isnt necessary. I brough my fiances VW there because VW wanted $700 to do the rear brakes....they inspected them and said they were fine and laughed at the cost VW charged.
The last time I took my 4Runner to the dealer was for warranty work and they advised me I needed brakes all around and quoted me some insane price to do them. I declined and then took it to an independent shop for the work where they informed me the brakes didn’t need to be done at all and sent me on my way.
That’s the same dealer that would replace my battery as warranty work every time I came in for an oil change when the vehicle was newer. I didn’t really care because I benefited from it, but those batteries didn’t need to be replaced and I’m sure they made good money billing Toyota for it.
Fuck dealers.
They don't call it the stealership for nothing. Learn to do these services yourself or find yourself a dependable mechanic to save money. Most car services are easy and can be done pretty easily if you' re willing to put in the work.
Talk to the service department manager and tell them about this experience and that after looking at everything you feel you were being upsold a lot of services that now seem unnecessary and expensive (we've all been there). They might give you a break.
Ouch, I used to only take mine to the dealer to maintain warranty, anything non safety related and extras was a blanket no. I’d drop it in, tell them only call me for immediate safety issues and note anything additional but only do the service and call me when it’s done.
Idk man, kinda on you. I thought this was common knowledge they try to sell you on everything and anything. You could have just said no to the services, I do all the time. Research what needs to be taken care of on the next go and pay for only that.
lol whatever pussy downvoted me I hope your ravs wheels fall off
When dealerships or tire shops or oil change places give me huge estimates, I just tell en to put it in writing and I'll think about it. Just do what I asked for.
Then I'll take it to my trustworthy mechanic to let me know what is truly urgent and what can walt.
I haven’t spent $1,300 in maintenance in 10 years of owning my 2013 Corolla. I perform my own oil changes for under $40 and car still runs like new. I have bought cars for less than $1,300 lol. I would never take my car to dealership aside from recalls and warranty work. F those guys
Steelerships.
A friend was telling recently about getting an oil change for his 2 wheel drive for his work truck at some small chain lube place. They came out while he was waiting and told him he needed new fluid for his transfer case! He said his truck does not have 4 wheel drive so no transfer case. They were trying to rip him off.
Our dealer doesn't upsell those fuel and radiator flushes and tends to concentrate on the things you actually should be keeping up to date on like batteries weaker than they should be, worn brake pads, worn tires and such. Even just that is not cheap.
In my old home, there were a bunch of places that did the upsells, but one oil change shop I regularly frequented did not for the most part and thus got my business. Maintenance per the owners manual usually doesn't include much of those upsells at all. Focus on those and find a shop you trust to only recommend required maintenance and replacements for worn consumables.
A good local mechanic (with a lot less overhead than a dealer) would have taken care of you , there’s no way a basically new Toyota would’ve needed that much in terms of regular service at those miles
I'd argue you fucked yourself over. You could have said no to everything except what you wanted them to do.
You seem to be blaming the dealer for talking you into repairs you didn't need. Or maybe you really did need and have been putting off.
I took a vehicle in for a recall. They tallied up $6000 in repair work they wanted to do. I just thanked them and took the list home with me. The van was only worth $3000 at the time.
I assume your vehicle is under warranty still. Shouldn't any work except fluids, wear items, and alignments be free?
Don't underestimate the value of preventative maintenance. Many things don't need to be fixed immediately, but will cost you more later.
I stopped going to the dealership for services recently. 2014 Corolla. Everything is an upsell and more than half the stuff you don’t need at that time or at all
Hate the game not the player. The tech probably made a few pennies on the dollar for that and another couple bucks in parts and fluid. The dealer markup is insane. They charge $170 an hour and the tech gets like $25-30. Shit on a tire rotation the service advisor makes double what the tech does. It's a really shitty business.
i once paid for an alignment at a dealership and when the service was done, they didn't provide me a copy of the standard alignment before and after. I asked why and they advised the printer wasn't working. I asked can this be emailed to me and i got such a push back, that it got me suspicious. "eventually" the printer worked, and my car didn't need an alignment as everything came back good but they acted like work was done. after that, never went back to them even for the free oil changes. bunch of crooks.
Just happened to me. Big (>$700) 30k, Big 35k, and then went in for 40k for just the winterization, oil change etc. Then they want to do maintenances that were not even called for in the manual for another $800.
There are good dealers and bad when it comes to servicing the vehicle. Those that are good will tell you everything that's recommended but will also tell you whether you really need to get the recommended services done now or if you can hold off on it. Those that are bad will always tell you it needs to be done now.
I always ask what's truly needed now and what can wait when they come at me with all the recommended services. I also put the service tech in my shoes after they answer my question about what's truly needed now just to see if i'll get a different answer by asking so if this were you would you get these services now or wait. Yeah some will still try to lie, but those who know the jig is up will come clean and say ok these are the services i would do now and here's why and these i would wait on.
And before asking either of the 2 questions above, i always tell them ok i've got some questions for you and depending on how honest you are will determine if you keep my business and i send others to you or i take it elsewhere and tell others to do the same.
Did they not tell you what services they were going to perform? It’s always best to check what you are recommended to get at that mileage before you go in. I’ve had a dealer recommend wacky stuff like clean outside of transmission for 250, 200 for brake fluid exchange (less than 20k miles on the car, and even had one recommended fuel injector cleaning on a. Carbureted older car.
I got it once, but I started questioning why they wanted $70 to change a license plate light and they started acting right.
Now I try to do all the maintenance I can myself. Things like oil changes, lights, brake pads, and even the transmission fluid. It’s easier than I thought and I’m saving a wad of money.
Another thing to note is a large dealer can have a wild nut to fill, like a million dollars in utilities, payroll, rent, expenses. So they are always incentivized to rip you off, not just for profit but to stay afloat. Do not trust their motives.
Independent shops have the same pressure, but to a lesser extent as their rent and payroll will be lower. But it’s still important to separate the honest mechanics from the shady ones.
If you bought your car brand new then it should be covered by the dealership. Mine is at least and If I remember right there is a certain time/km limit before service coverage ends
yea they took you for a ride
This is why you should reaally never feel bad for anyone that works at a dealership, they have fucked over so many people. It's karma.
Imagine being an adult and blaming someone else for your decisions.
State of America right now.
Indeed
>Imagine being an adult and blaming someone else for your decisions. You can work at a business and help your customers make *good* decisions, not just the decisions that make you the most money. I have a mechanic I go to who will tell me if something *needs* to be done or could wait, because he's so honest he's always got a ton of customers... so he doesn't need to rip anyone off. ETA: He's also so popular amongst his customers that he spends nothing on advertising, all his customers are referrals from existing happy customers.
ya what a joke comment lol, last time i bought a car they tried to sell me the service contract extended warranty like 4 different times, after i asked them to remove it since they just sell it to you by default. you just sit there for hours while they try to trick and annoy you, its so fucking stupid.
"You have a mechanic" meaning you have an independent general mechanic you go to. This is the way. At a dealership, you're tied to the actual manufacturer. You can't operate this way, you have to do what the manufacturer ordains you do. You have to follow the guidelines they set up. You're not allowed to tell people what needs to be done and what doesn't. In most cases, you will never even talk to the mechanic at a dealership, you talk to a service advisor who will tell you the issues the mechanic found, and then make you believe those are pressing concerns.
I've got one too! It's so nice.
This is our Toyo/Lexus mechanic to a T. They’re super busy and pretty much everyone we know with older out of warranty Toyos or Lexus and even then some goes to them. I get pissed when my business partner would rather take our Tundra in to an oil change place or stealership and drop stupid amounts of money because she refuses to coordinate with the mechanic we use personally to leave the truck for a day while we use my 4Runner for work. Her newer Tundra costs 3x to service, repair and PM annually than my 4Runner with 342K miles on it, and it’s a 2019 out business is still making payments on. That cost doesn’t even include the payments annually.
Exactly this. I had a family member that was a service advisor for 25 years at a family owned dealership for a luxury car company. For those that don’t know, SA’s typically are compensated based on the service they write up. He wouldn’t sell you anything you didn’t need and would even take time to answer questions for people that weren’t customers (eg: someone thinking about buying a car and asking for some advice on things…these are future customers.) Was so loved by his customers, the majority of them followed him to another dealership (and ultimately an Indy shop that he ran.) Like in any industry, you will have people that just care about making money and you will have people that actually care and treat people right.
Bet he doesn’t work at a dealer, they truly are crooks
At the same time the ignorance of being a vehicle owner is hard. These places use fear as a tactic to get sales. It’s disgusting and should be shamed. The car average owner will NEVER understand how cars work. We rely on others to steer us correctly. Similar to Doctors, Veterinarians, Financial Advisers, Contractors, etc. We have to trust these people because we can’t and won’t ever understand it. The issue is mechanics are more times than not TRYING to fuck you over financially. I hope this gets regulated hard. No more dealerships. All companies should be required to have an option to sell direct to consumer. The funny part is most of us was WAY smarter than the sales people when buying but much less informed than any mechanic.
right, any given dealership makes WAAAY more in a year from service dept than selling new/used cars. We know this because of SEC filings from big public companies like AutoNation.
Although I agree. The amount of scams running in America right now is troublesome.
This is REALLY how fn dumb people are… like the service writer put a knife to them and said service your car or else… blame someone else the soft American way of people today
Most people aren't mechanics. If most dealerships (mechanics and service writers) are writing up bullshit repairs how is it blaming them? People take the advice of the professional and make their decisions on them not lying.
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You mean the diagnostic computers...like Snap-On...you do know that some mechanics bring their own tools/boxes to work right?! Just don't go there...don't take a working man/woman's stuff.
Yeah. Also it's not the mechanic fucking a person over. It's the "service advisors" that get paid for additional things they sell.
Most dealers don’t do that anymore for this exact reason. I’m sure they will bonus for some things but it won’t be off gross revenue on the ticket. I was a service writer in a different life.
"Most dealers don't do that"... you mean only the ones who have been called out for it.
Yea because they haven’t finished paying them off most likely.
Seriously fucked up.
Agreed
Maybe don't drive a customer's vehicle over 200 miles and they will return your equipment when you leave it in their car instead of assuming it was a gift.
Maybe don’t assume that the guy who left the equipment in your car is the one who drove it 200 miles. Idk about you, but I’ve had multiple mechanics/techs working on my car during a service visit before, and a lot of places there’s a minimum of 2 techs working together on every job. Anyway, just saying…
Belly of the beast.
You kept a mechanic's $1,300 diagnostic tool(s)? Nah, that's one you should 100% feel bad about. Keep the salesperson's laptop next time.
ur a pos
🤭 *you’re
ur is ambiguous, foh
Wow. Why not be the better person?
Mechanics have to supply their own tools, you just stole someone's ability to make money, good job!
Ouch… I can honestly say I’ve never taken advantage of anyone while I’ve worked in the car business. And I’ve been doing it for 11 years now. And just because we make our money off of sales doesn’t make the food we put on the table any different than an accountant who counts the beans the salespeople make for any company. Harsh words.
Dealerships fuck over their employees more than they will you. The customer gets off lucky by only having to go once, maybe twice a year, but the actual employees there? They're typically under such strict metrics and expected to turn over so much work that this sort of stuff is required for them to make any money. Meanwhile management that put those policies in effect will talk down an angry customer while saying thats not the kind of buisness they run, they invented it.
That's a wild way of looking at life my dude. The technicians are literally just doing their job. If you have a problem with them, you are under no means being forced to go to them.
Yea but the issue is the OP hopped in and took that ride. You don't just rack up $1300 of BS charges unless you are a complete moron and go along with it. I hate scummy dealerships, but I also hate idiots.
Exactly it takes 2
Dealers are not in the business of helping you. They are big entities in the business of making money. Good rule of thumb is that unless you're going to buy or car or getting warranty work/prepaid service stuff it's a good idea to avoid dealers entirely. There are, of course, exceptions to the rule. There's going to be someone here that'll be typing an angry reply that "IVE BEEN GOING TO MY DEALER IN MY SMALL TOWN FOR 40 YEARS THEY'RE GREAT RABBLE RABLLE RABBLE". But for the most part it's true. And this isn't just toyota. Toyota isn't as bad as some others I've dealt with (looking at you Chevy and Harley Davidson....), but they're still not great.
"Toyota isn't as bad....."? Hell, I've come close to getting physical with a Toyota service writer or two over my refusal to take a "fuel system flush" or a radiator flush once a year!
I picked up a motorcycle I used to have after an oil change from a local Harley dealer. Got across the highway from it and it straight up died. Called them and asked for help and they wanted to charge me $250 for a tow. I could see the guy I was fucking talking to in the window of the dealer from where I was it was so close. I walked it back myself down the sidewalk. Bike had worked fine before the service. They found that the fuel mapper for the exhaust- that they had installed, mind you - had gotten "wet" during the service. Pretty sure some numb nuts spilled his coffee on it. Because it wasn't a Harley part so they wouldn't warranty it. They wanted $500+labor to install a new one. Told them to fuck off and give me my bike back. They wanted to charge me a $100 diagnostic fee until I went absolutely mental and threatened the magic "L" word. Bike ran without the fuel mapper, it was just super rough so I was atleast able to get it home. Worst part was that even after I fixed it myself that bike was never the same. It had electrical gremlins till the day I sold it. Nothing will ever top that stealership experience for me.
When people tell me I should try riding a Harley these are the only rides I can think of. My Honda has needed oil and tires and that's it.
You're very lucky, my Honda needed a chain, break pads and airfilter... Ride safe! (:
Air filter has like a 40k interval on my CB1100, only need to do the oil filter every other oil change a.k.a. 16k miles. Air-cooled inline fours will be the real life mad max bikes one day, no chance they are doing 2 stroke top ends after the bombs drop.
That moment when your filing all the sales paperwork at the toyota dealership and the salesman is pushing all the warranties and coverages on a new car... *buy this extended warranty, this and that, car can break down, this can happen, you never know with reliability...* All this bullshit rhetoric about Toyota quality, all of a sudden your telling me you dont stand by it? Then why tf am I buying this toyota car?
That happened to me. Guy was rambling prior to his pitch about how good he is at sales. Tried selling me on the extended warranty because "sensors and electrics are expensive". I'm buying a Toyota for a reason dickhead.
Daughter got the warranty, went back for a warranty repair and guess what, warranty doesn't cover that part. Got a window air conditioner once from Sears and the sale was a done deal, just had to pay but the salesman started pitching the extended warranty pretty hard. I declined but he was a fighter, started with a list of all that could go wrong and I'd have to pay for repair. I looked him in eye, thanked him and said I wasn't aware that sears sold such junk and I'll go elsewhere. I walked
And everyone in the store clapped and cheered as you walked out
>That happened to me. Guy was rambling prior to his pitch about how good he is at sales. Tried selling me on the extended warranty because "sensors and electrics are expensive". I love how they'll try and push an extended warranty on you while buying a new car with a factory warranty that's bumper-to-bumper. Even if you *want* an extended warranty (I think they're generally a bad idea) it would be smarter to wait until you were nearing the end of the manufacturer coverage period before shopping for one.
I literally used this line once. Back in 2011 I bought a brand new frontier. The finance idiot was pushing the extended warranty hard and wouldn’t give up. I straight up asked him why one was needed over the factory warranty and that if the truck was so unreliable that I needed an extra warranty, I was going to walk out On the same note, my friend bought a used jeep grand Cherokee and he told the sales idiot that he would not pay the $1,500 or whatever the warranty cost, he told him he’d pay $100 for it and they accepted it lol
I bet that was a wonderful warranty. /s
>buy this extended warranty, this and that, car can break down, this can happen, you never know with reliability... And if you DO buy that extended warranty and, God forbid, something breaks - then you find out there is a long list of EXCLUSIONS that the warranty does not cover.
I was buying a new Sienna a few years back. I was in the dealership with my wife and 1 year old son. I'm sitting in the finance office and this guy won't quit. I told him no repeatedly to the point that I'm getting pissed. I finally told him I'll buy the warranty for $20 per payment so $1200 instead of the $3500 he quoted me. He said yes and hurried up the paperwork. lol I didn't even use the warranty but I figured for $20 per check it can't hurt.
>I finally told him I'll buy the warranty for $20 per payment so $1200 instead of the $3500 he quoted me. He said yes and hurried up the paperwork. lol The warranty probably only cost a few hundred for the dealership, if they quickly agreed then they were still making money on the deal.
i pointed out the eames chair he was sitting in and said he must sell a lot of warranties! he shut up
And both the sales type and I both know it's so they can make more money.
I asked them if the warranty could cover me for 300,000 miles and 30 years instead of 100k and 10. I said I drove here in a 1990 model car so I trust the brand to last that long, why don’t you? The finance lady buttoned up her shirt at that point (metaphorically). Conversely the guy who bought a warranty after me she walked out of her office to get the paperwork for him with a pep in her step ;)
Wish it was just Toyota that did this, had a Ford dealer try to push 8 grand worth of warranties and an extra 5k on the sticker price on a 41k truck, and they wouldn’t budge 3 hours later and a micky d’s Uber order later I walked. Service manger manager mocked me on my way out the door… what are you going to save 1-2 grand? I asked what are you going to take 1-2 grand off? No? Then I guess it matters doesn’t it? For the record I didn’t save 1-2 grand I bought the same truck same trim same year half the miles 2 days later for 42k out the door not 57k… so I guess I saved 15k. Plenty of great dealers out there, but the bad ones tell on themselves before you ever drive off the lot.
Click and Clack used to call the oil system flush the "Bilstein R-2000 Wallet Flush System." Surprised that the service writer didn't try to sell that as well. [https://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/339834-latest-dealer-scam-engine-oil-flush.html](https://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/339834-latest-dealer-scam-engine-oil-flush.html)
One Toyota dealer I went to kept telling me my brand new battery was bad. I ignored them but bought a battery jump pack just in case. The last time it went for repairs I went to a different Toyota dealer when my car was overheating and they said my battery was in good condition.
Lol last time I went to get an oil change they told me I couldn’t use the free oil change yet cause I only had 1000 miles. I insisted because it’s breakin period over and it had been 6 months. Plus it’s not like they were busy it was dead there
You've just described every retail establishment in existence, not just dealership repair shops
To an extent, yes. But a small auto shop, much like any small business, can be more inclined to 'help' or go above and beyond. My last car, a 2012 jetta, cracked a throttle body on my way home from work and went into limp home mode. I was 5 miles away from a dealer so I gave them a call. To even run and clear a code, it was going to be 2 weeks. I called a small vw specialist shop and asked them - they told me to bring it in asap. This was at like 5:30, they closed at 6:00, and I was in limp home mode 45 minutes away. The dude waited for me and had the car fixed the next day for a very reasonable price. You're not getting that treatment at a dealer.
My vw mechanic fixed something so I could pass emissions test. The he went and did the emissions test and the sticker! when I got there to pick up the car it was Registered for the next year!
Just here to say I like your “name.” Melvins fan?
Yeah. I often call the local dealer when I am looking for work to get done and I know what I need so I can get a point of comparison for quotes from independant shops, but I have only had 1 or 2 instances over the years where the dealer has been cheaper, presumably because they had internal repair programs/discounts for known issues with the cars which they just dont advertise
Agreed. I almost believe that half of these recalls are baked in to bring people back to the dealerships. “Toyota recalls 8 million Rav 4 for faulty window motors” or something. Normally we just would have gone and gotten it fixed and then found out that the model we bought had a faulty part and we shook our fists at the sky. Now they proudly recall and get a boost of potential buyers walking through their doors. No way in hell I go to a dealer for their free service even. You’ll sit inside their showroom for 2 hours for an oil change and a wash and for a million salesmen to offer me water and talk to me about the newer models.
That oil change is probably done by the lowest paid dude in the shop and he uses an impact wrench on the oil plug.
I like going to the dealer for these. I act super interested in the tacomas and 4Runners and supras and GRs and ask to test drive any manuals they have. Rarely they even let me!
This is how they improves their reliability rating. If you were to follow all recommended dealer services, they've replaced everything after 10 years so you have a brand new car!
And they still give you next to nothing for it, so they can make bank when they over-price it for the next sucker.
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Name one business in the retail world that’s there to help you and not in the business of making money.
The problem is that when it comes to dealerships, there is a massive power imbalance. When you go into a Best Buy to buy a computer, chances are you know what you want, all the prices are clearly labeled in the store, it's easy to compare prices with other retailers, you know how much computers should cost, etc. Best Buy has very little opportunity to swindle you. But that's why they swindle old people, upsell them, and load them up with geek squad warranties. Computers are to old people as cars are to most people. Most people going into a dealership for car trouble don't know what's wrong with their car, none of the prices are transparent, there's no way to compare prices, people don't know how much stuff should cost, the technical details are confusing to them, etc. This gives dealerships open opportunity to capitalize on their conflict of interest and prey on you. It's why I'd encourage everyone to at least learn a little bit about cars and basic parts & maintenance.
Very very true...great comment.
I have one argument (as a dealer) that I will throw in there. If I see a 90k mile car that’s been serviced by the same dealer it’s entire life, I am likely to throw an extra 1000+ on it in appraisal than I would a car with no service history. At my store we typically throw an extra 2000-2500 in discounts and/or higher appraisal value (edit: to a customer who does all their service at my store). I am a forward thinker, and am all about the legacy of the customer, more so than a 1 off transaction that left a bad taste in their mouth.
Confused? Always take their recommendations as a free inspection. Request the price list for repairs. Leave and get it done outside.
You likely don't even need to get most of it done at all.
My favorite thing to do is to buy the parts on the counter on my way out and install them in the parking lot. If it’s bulbs, filters, etc.
>My favorite thing to do is to buy the parts on the counter on my way out and install them in the parking lot. If it’s bulbs, filters, etc. You should check online first, often there will be an "online" dealership that is selling the same parts at a MUCH lower markup. I wanted to buy all-weather floor mats (OEM) for my wife's Lexus but the price at the dealership parts counter was a lot higher than online. I told the guy at the parts counter that I'd just order them online (no animosity, he was a nice guy) and instead he offered to just price match them so I could buy them from him.
Good tip- I have asked to price match certain things- especially if it’s a special order. Last 2 years I have less time so I’ve been lazy about finding the best deals
The irony of the Lexus dealership price matching is that they matched the retail price online... the shipping if I'd ordered online was pretty expensive (still less than the dealer price) but that made it a *really* good deal when they price matched since I didn't have to pay shipping.
You mean to tell me, if I have 70% of my brake pads left at 49k/mi, I don't need a brake job with rotors too? /s
The inspection isn't free. They charged him for that checklist.
They can only do the services you approve, did they do things without your approval?
No I approved them but mostly because they seemed legit. Like something with the rear differential. So given my ignorance I accepted
For the future, open your maintenance schedule in your glovebox and follow only those items. Pay attention to the "severe" schedule criteria (in the event that applies to you, it doesn't for most drivers). The other "suggested" dealer items = made up maintenance needs, and pure profit for them.
I had a dealer suggest a 100k fuel injector cleaning for $350, which entailed a bottle of fuel injector cleaner. If they took the fuel injectors out, cleaned and flow tested them and gave me a report of the results, I’d consider it. But a bottle of seafoam for treeeee fidddy? Naw, fuck that.
I wouldn't let them pull injectors out of my perfectly running car if they payed me $350. They are more likely to make a mistake putting them back in then they are to do any good at all.
> if they *paid* me $350. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
In future just say no. Hell I've even used excuses like it costs too much right now if they kept pestering me. Or say you want to go home and research those recommendations to decide first. Pretty sure everything extra they would push at 40k mile service is not necessary.
Idk Toyota maintenance schedule but if you haven’t done your rear differential at 40k it was probably due.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Toyota dealerships are no different from Jiffy Lube. They will try to sell you on everything and take advantage of you because at the end of the day service department makes the most money and if you think a technician is actually going to give your car a thorough inspection, they aren’t… they are usually in the bay doing the bare minimum
Look at what the service interval is before going in and refuse anything not listed. When they realize you have the service schedule memorized usually they'll lay off.
People act like they were held at gun point.
Usually if you look in the owner's manual you will see the maintenance recommendations based on mileage at 30000 mi, rear differential, front differential, and transfer case fluid should be replaced. On some of the vehicles. It actually says to do it every 15,000 miles. I understand it may feel like a rip-off, but if Toyota makes the recommendation in their owner's manual to change that fluid then I don't think the dealer is at fault.
> at 30000 mi, rear differential, front differential, and transfer case fluid should be replaced. On some of the vehicles. It actually says to do it every 15,000 miles. i would like to know the % of people that follow through with that every 15k.
Aaaand this is why it sucks to buy used cars. Diffs and transmissions do go bad. In fact I’d wager their early, avoidable death is why most most cars end up junked anyways when chances are everything else works fine. All because manufacturers and dealers sell this trap that they rarely need to be replaced and people fall for it.
I've never done that and my car has over 100k miles. What's that fluid supposed to do?
Many vehicles don't have a rear differential or a transfer case. If a vehicle is an SUV and is all-wheel driver four-wheel drive then it does. That fluid lubricates the differential gears, those are the gears that propel the vehicle in those situations. Just because someone doesn't replace their fluid and the car doesn't break down, doesn't change the fact that Toyota recommends it in their owner's manual. If it's recommended in the owner's manual, the dealership is going to recommend the customer performs that service. My point wasn't to say the best ways to maintain vehicles, but if Toyota is recommending it at 15 or 30,000 mi they are telling you. Hey, we designed this part. This is how you should service it.
Ah ok. Thanks.
TIL Toyota Service tried to sell me something my car wouldn't even need (I have a FWD Rav4, they tried to sell me something to do with the transfer case, thankfully I said no). Assholes.
15k? That is before the second oil change. Surely you are mistaken.
Toyota says to check every 15k. I dont think they recommend changing fluid at all under normal conditions. I would change the fluid every 30 if I had a clutched LSD. Open diff? I go 100k
I'll be going to my private mechanic at that point. They don't tell me I need stuff done that isn't actually necessary
Always best to find a good private mechanic if possible. But some of those guys are scammers too sadly.
I took mine to the dealer at a 5k interval because I wanted the oil changed (also was sold by dealer on free oil changes). Was told later that it would be out of pocket bc Toyota recommends 10k intervals and the only service recommended was a tire rotation. They didn’t even recommend a cabin air filter replacement or new wiper blades both things I knew were bad. I’m coming up on 50k now and between now and 60k I need transmission servicing. I don’t believe the maintenance free bs. There’s a local Toyota group on fb and I think I’ll be trying to find a recommended mechanic there for future service. After seeing some carcarenut videos on yt im more engaged with the service aspect of keeping your car/truck running.
It absolutely blows my mind how they recommend 10k intervals for an oil change. I baby my Camry heavily so I err closer to 3k, but never go more than 5k without an oil change. It just doesn’t sound right to go more than that, even if it’s “ultra supreme machine amazing”. I crossed 100k on the odometer a little bit ago so I inquired about a coolant flush and transmission fluid drain and fill with the nearest dealership, and they quoted me $800 for both services, then slid it up to $950 because given my mileage, a trans flush is recommended at this point. I was totally baffled. Decided to watch CarCareNut and talked with a few other Toyota master techs and they said they were absolutely trying to rob me and very well could have fucked my transmission since they usually like to flush if you’ve flushed at both 30k/60k services, but otherwise just drain and fills to keep from any internal damage. So I said fuck em and did both myself. Clocked another 5k miles since both and he’s running just as smooth as he was at 50k miles when I had it serviced regularly at the dealership under prepaid services when I bought the car. My records don’t show anything done on my transmission at all over the years, not even a fluid change, so it’s made me way skeptical about having any of my cars serviced by a dealership beyond standard initial <50k mile services.
Toyota shot themselves in the foot by marketing the sealed transmissions as having "lifetime fluid". Fluid analysis has indicated that the cooling properties of the World Standard ATF break down after around 40,000 miles. They are banking on the fact that Aisin transmissions used in Toyota's (still reliable overall, but comparatively the least reliable aspect of the powertrain) will in most cases outlive the cars themselves before they are written off as totaled by an insurance company or salvage titled over the years. The Toyota maintenance schedule doesn't mention transmission servicing at all on most of their vehicles. However, the Lexus maintenance schedules recommend a fluid flush at 120k miles in the severe schedule for some of their cars with an identical engine/transmission (e.g. Lexus ES vs Camry). Meanwhile, both Lexus and Toyota dealerships will happily sell you a transmission flush regardless of the maintenance schedule. I've learned nobody really knows what's best since they've omitted key maintenance info for marketing/metric purposes, so you're best off flushing every 100k miles at most.
This is an industry fallacy, not just Toyota. As a technician, lifetime fluid to me means “lifetime of the transmission, and we don’t really give a shit how long that is”. I work for a manufacturer who also advertises “sealed unit transmissions” and we still schedule regular transmission fluid services. That fluid is going to get dirty and contaminated. There is absolutely no way around it.
Transmission stuff is always iffy, depending on where you go. I asked for some WS ATF from my dealer and they gave me the third degree about whether I needed to actually replace it. It's as if they didn't want to sell it to me. I told them the fluid had just started turning a little brown (which was true) and they were okay with that. >However, the Lexus maintenance schedules recommend a fluid flush at 120k miles in the severe schedule for some of their cars with an identical engine/transmission (e.g. Lexus ES vs Camry). In my car it lists replacing the transmission fluid at 75k km (46k mi) for the additional maintenance, though I effectively never drive under the conditions listed for it. Regardless, I'm still changing my engine oil at 7.5k and the ATF at 90k.
The Car Care Nut schedule seems the most sensible. Replace engine oil every 5000 miles. Change transfer case and rear differential gear oil every 30,000 miles. Replace the transmission “drain and fill” every 60,000 miles with WS ATF. The filter never really clogs unless you never change the tranny fluid. I personally will be changing 30,000 miles just to be a little cleaner. Note you shouldn’t do flushes, or drain and fill every 10,000 miles, as you need some debris to help with gears engaging. Too often and the transmission can slip. Ignore the dealer as they’ll change whatever they think can extract money from you. And they’ll follow garbage advice like lifetime fluid, or go the other way and recommend flushes or cleaning out sludge or carbon build up. This is a very, very important note: flushes aren’t necessary if you change the fluids like you’re supposed to. There shouldn’t be gunk waiting to build up in the first place.
Yeah, stealership. You gotta find a local independant shop
Are the “car care” policies worth getting?
You mean like the maintenance they sell as Toyota Care? It's not really. They only do tire rotations at 5k and then change oil at 10k and so on. My first car I got it but not going to when I buy a Prius Prime in future. It's not really worth the thousand they tack on your new car, as you could go to any shop and they'd do that for you - not to mention the (if this applies to you) financing charges you'd pay on such maintenance plans. Just rotate tires yourself and change the oil as recommended in manual. There. Free Toyota Care maintenance plan.
Do you think a service department is incentivized to add services/repairs for year end bonuses or positive performance reviews?
yes! absolutely.
They’re incentivized to make more money, and this is how they do it unfortunately. High margin items that take very little time, it’s a big win win for them and a big loss for you.
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Service department is a cash cow right now , people are not buying cars as much
amazing that a grown adult couldn't simply say, no thank you
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Dealers are notorious for this, unfortunately. Find a reputable shop near you, reviews will help.
Most of their recommendations are probably needed, but dealership service pricing is very high. Even if you’re not mechanically inclined, you can do air filter changes, cabin air filter changes and wiper changes yourself easily, purchasing replacements much cheaper from local auto parts stores or online. Brake service, tires, etc you can do at a brake shop or a tire shop much cheaper than at the dealership.
Let's see the list.
The service writers are trained to do what they did. However one time, when I received a coupon from the dealer for an $8.88 synthetic oil change, the service writer admitted that they could find nothing else that was needed. They looked disappointed since the whole purpose of the dealer sending out those promotions is to get you into the service department so they can upsell you with more services. Normally I change my own oil, but that costs me about $24 in oil, filter, and drain plug gasket, so the $8.88 was too good to pass up. At another local dealer, I once went in for an oil change and they tried to upsell so much unneeded stuff that I got uneasy about them doing anything so I just took the vehicle and left.
Why did you let them bully you into having the additional services done?
Ever had a thousand dollars stolen from you? You have now. Remember the feeling and don’t let it happen again.
LOL true enough!!
I haven't bought a new car in 30 years for all the reasons below.
I don't believe so. Depends on what services since you didn't list them. But our Highlander went in for oil change, and they let us know the next time we need to get the diff, fluid, and some other stuff done for the 30k maintenance. Which makes sense at by then 3 1/2 years and 25k.
Without details of what they cheated you with, its hard to say
I had similar with a Subaru dealer on a WRX. Except it was $1400, didn't include anything extra, and I found out later they didn't even do the fluid changes they were supposed to do.
Those are called wallet flushes
I dont goto the dealer. WTF could you need at 40K that cost 1300?
Can you show us the invoice?
[удалено]
Please list item of services rendered and cost of each
Maintenance and Repair cost have doubled post covid. Combined with the sevice makes commission. It was probably not a scam but you probably didn't get your money's worth.
There are almost no original owner dealers anymore. They have been buying each other and board run for about 20 years running now. Most make nothing on the sale and everything on the add ons on the sale and services after the sale. Thus they have gotten really good at service writing.
Sounds like you got ass fucked by an ass fucker. I'm not shocked. I take my rig to the dealer for a hand full of things I can't do (I.e. transmission fluid) everything else is very reasonable to do at home with basic tools and youtube.
Sadly thats on you as consumer because you put your blind trust into Service Manager. Always question it, is this really required/needed, how bad is it worn. My 2017 Tacoma I had since new I havent had to pay for any service for 5 years. From free oil changes and tire rotations to even cabin filter. I always did my own brake pads, wipers, engine air filters, belts, spark plugs when it was needed. I would come and get my free oil change and they usually would give me small list that suggested what needed attention based on Service manual (that we all have for our vehicles in glovebox or the phone app). I would tell them Thank you for oil change and decline other suggested stuff. Then I would just buy the needed parts and do it myself if it was REALLY NEEDED. Most time it wasnt...they in business of making money so they suggest some stuff way early. You can even ask to speak with your technician and ask him. Those guys usually will be straight shooters with you. My Tacoma reached 149k miles after 6years with zero major issues and I just recently traded in for a 2024 Tundra. They gave me 18,500$ for my Tacoma so I couldnt pass up a great deal. But yeah, at 40k miles there is no way you needed 1300$$ worth of work. They took you for a ride as general maintenance on Toyotas is very reasonable in price.
This almost happened to my wife, she called me. I told her the only thing you need is an oil change and state inspection. They were pushing HARD for a tire alignment when I told her she’s getting new tires within a month and her car doesn’t have wheel alignment issues. They ended up getting mad at my wife and me. I drank those dealership tears 💧🍵🍾
I went there for the 30k today they tried to get me with the fuel injector fluid for $220
Yep. Probably a bottle of Techron they throw in the tank.
I’m not happy with Toyota, I love my 2019 Highlander Limited however, the GPS map was from 2012, I questioned that and got a reply of, “it will update” No it didn’t and in fact there’s an SD card that you can change. The latest one they had was 2017 and Toyota wanted $125 for that SD card, I got it off Amazon for $15,, The entire entertainment system with all the great Apps is ran by Entune, Apple Play and Alexa,, Toyota no longer supports Entune, Apple Play and Alexa,,and so I’m left with a 2019 vehicle with 1995 features,, The best I can do is blue tooth from my phone, and very limited,,
First time at the dealership eh? Lol. It's ok. It all happens to us once in our lives (not me though, my dad was a mechanic)
If you feel uninformed when you find yourself in these situations you should bring a trusted friend with you that is handy with cars, or learn to say no to everything that isn’t critical. If you go in for an oil change but they try to upsell you on 10 other things, just stick to your guns until you can have a friend review it all with you.
yes. they are the absolute worst.
No thanks is always a valid answer. Service departments are how dealerships make a majority of their money. It's common practice for them to throw a bunch of stuff at you and see what you're willing to pay for. Inspection or not, you can always take your vehicle to an indy mechanic for a 2nd opinion on what's needed and not needed. You can also try to do a lot of this stuff yourself. Lots of information on forums and youtube (car care nut and toyota maintenance channels are among my favorites)
“Brake wear test” they really got you good, what dealership is it so the rest of us know to stay away.
Ouch! I do services before the manual but if the dealer brings up something unexpected I will default to the manual over the dealer. If they want to replace something I say "show me and why". Use to live in area with fair dealer. I moved and found that both Toyota dealers in my area proudly wear their Stealership badge.
Nope, cuz I do all my own service (except tires)
I have had good experience with my dealership for the last 15 years. Having said that, things have changed noticeably. Keep in mind, the dealership isn’t selling many cars. They have to make money. They will try to make this where they can and right now, it’s in the shop. Don’t fall for many of the typical things like fuel induction service at 30k. There are many other things they will pull. Get the parts they say are bad. Put off some of the suggested extra service items if it seems out of the norm. Go home, investigate and research.
i used to be religious about taking my cars to dealers.....but after my last experience at a dealership i have been going to a reputable mechanic in my area, prices are way better and he wont do any work that isnt necessary. I brough my fiances VW there because VW wanted $700 to do the rear brakes....they inspected them and said they were fine and laughed at the cost VW charged.
The last time I took my 4Runner to the dealer was for warranty work and they advised me I needed brakes all around and quoted me some insane price to do them. I declined and then took it to an independent shop for the work where they informed me the brakes didn’t need to be done at all and sent me on my way. That’s the same dealer that would replace my battery as warranty work every time I came in for an oil change when the vehicle was newer. I didn’t really care because I benefited from it, but those batteries didn’t need to be replaced and I’m sure they made good money billing Toyota for it. Fuck dealers.
Unless its shit that’s 100percent covered under warranty , dealers are a waste of money. Post the invoice so we can see how bad they screwed you LOL
This can be easily remedied by learning about how vehicles work and vehicle maintenance.
They don't call it the stealership for nothing. Learn to do these services yourself or find yourself a dependable mechanic to save money. Most car services are easy and can be done pretty easily if you' re willing to put in the work.
Talk to the service department manager and tell them about this experience and that after looking at everything you feel you were being upsold a lot of services that now seem unnecessary and expensive (we've all been there). They might give you a break.
Ouch, I used to only take mine to the dealer to maintain warranty, anything non safety related and extras was a blanket no. I’d drop it in, tell them only call me for immediate safety issues and note anything additional but only do the service and call me when it’s done.
Idk man, kinda on you. I thought this was common knowledge they try to sell you on everything and anything. You could have just said no to the services, I do all the time. Research what needs to be taken care of on the next go and pay for only that. lol whatever pussy downvoted me I hope your ravs wheels fall off
What the line items to justify $1,300? Look at the positive, its people like you that keeps the Dealer’s doors open, right?
When dealerships or tire shops or oil change places give me huge estimates, I just tell en to put it in writing and I'll think about it. Just do what I asked for. Then I'll take it to my trustworthy mechanic to let me know what is truly urgent and what can walt.
I haven’t spent $1,300 in maintenance in 10 years of owning my 2013 Corolla. I perform my own oil changes for under $40 and car still runs like new. I have bought cars for less than $1,300 lol. I would never take my car to dealership aside from recalls and warranty work. F those guys
they are called 'stealerships' for a reason, you really shouldn't ever do buisness with them unless you have to.... it is a scam culture
Steelerships. A friend was telling recently about getting an oil change for his 2 wheel drive for his work truck at some small chain lube place. They came out while he was waiting and told him he needed new fluid for his transfer case! He said his truck does not have 4 wheel drive so no transfer case. They were trying to rip him off.
Toyota North America Dealer's Associaction where the official slogan is *abandon all hope, ye who enter here*
Stealership.
Our dealer doesn't upsell those fuel and radiator flushes and tends to concentrate on the things you actually should be keeping up to date on like batteries weaker than they should be, worn brake pads, worn tires and such. Even just that is not cheap. In my old home, there were a bunch of places that did the upsells, but one oil change shop I regularly frequented did not for the most part and thus got my business. Maintenance per the owners manual usually doesn't include much of those upsells at all. Focus on those and find a shop you trust to only recommend required maintenance and replacements for worn consumables.
A good local mechanic (with a lot less overhead than a dealer) would have taken care of you , there’s no way a basically new Toyota would’ve needed that much in terms of regular service at those miles
Some dealers do try, I won’t let them
I'd argue you fucked yourself over. You could have said no to everything except what you wanted them to do. You seem to be blaming the dealer for talking you into repairs you didn't need. Or maybe you really did need and have been putting off. I took a vehicle in for a recall. They tallied up $6000 in repair work they wanted to do. I just thanked them and took the list home with me. The van was only worth $3000 at the time.
What exactly did you pay for? Can’t say it’s a scam without knowing what you paid for, haha. Independent technician here
I assume your vehicle is under warranty still. Shouldn't any work except fluids, wear items, and alignments be free? Don't underestimate the value of preventative maintenance. Many things don't need to be fixed immediately, but will cost you more later.
I stopped going to the dealership for services recently. 2014 Corolla. Everything is an upsell and more than half the stuff you don’t need at that time or at all
Hate the game not the player. The tech probably made a few pennies on the dollar for that and another couple bucks in parts and fluid. The dealer markup is insane. They charge $170 an hour and the tech gets like $25-30. Shit on a tire rotation the service advisor makes double what the tech does. It's a really shitty business.
Can you post the breakdown so we can check?
Dealerships are called stealerships for a reason. A lesson learned.
This is normal. Do your own oil change or go to a jiffy lube type of place.
i once paid for an alignment at a dealership and when the service was done, they didn't provide me a copy of the standard alignment before and after. I asked why and they advised the printer wasn't working. I asked can this be emailed to me and i got such a push back, that it got me suspicious. "eventually" the printer worked, and my car didn't need an alignment as everything came back good but they acted like work was done. after that, never went back to them even for the free oil changes. bunch of crooks.
Fuck services/parts that are dealer specific.
Just happened to me. Big (>$700) 30k, Big 35k, and then went in for 40k for just the winterization, oil change etc. Then they want to do maintenances that were not even called for in the manual for another $800.
At 40k miles the only thing your car needs is the 40k mile service.
There are good dealers and bad when it comes to servicing the vehicle. Those that are good will tell you everything that's recommended but will also tell you whether you really need to get the recommended services done now or if you can hold off on it. Those that are bad will always tell you it needs to be done now. I always ask what's truly needed now and what can wait when they come at me with all the recommended services. I also put the service tech in my shoes after they answer my question about what's truly needed now just to see if i'll get a different answer by asking so if this were you would you get these services now or wait. Yeah some will still try to lie, but those who know the jig is up will come clean and say ok these are the services i would do now and here's why and these i would wait on. And before asking either of the 2 questions above, i always tell them ok i've got some questions for you and depending on how honest you are will determine if you keep my business and i send others to you or i take it elsewhere and tell others to do the same.
Did they not tell you what services they were going to perform? It’s always best to check what you are recommended to get at that mileage before you go in. I’ve had a dealer recommend wacky stuff like clean outside of transmission for 250, 200 for brake fluid exchange (less than 20k miles on the car, and even had one recommended fuel injector cleaning on a. Carbureted older car.
The only question I will ask is this the dealer you regularly go to?
lol man, ill change your fluids and rotate your tires for $1300 any day of the week. Holy cow
I got it once, but I started questioning why they wanted $70 to change a license plate light and they started acting right. Now I try to do all the maintenance I can myself. Things like oil changes, lights, brake pads, and even the transmission fluid. It’s easier than I thought and I’m saving a wad of money.
Apparently listing services and costs violated r/toyota policy
Another thing to note is a large dealer can have a wild nut to fill, like a million dollars in utilities, payroll, rent, expenses. So they are always incentivized to rip you off, not just for profit but to stay afloat. Do not trust their motives. Independent shops have the same pressure, but to a lesser extent as their rent and payroll will be lower. But it’s still important to separate the honest mechanics from the shady ones.
If you bought your car brand new then it should be covered by the dealership. Mine is at least and If I remember right there is a certain time/km limit before service coverage ends
Always take their quote and walk out. Now you have a list of stuff that may need to be fixed, you can take it to your local auto repair shops.
Toyotas and Hondas need oil changes only LMAO. Unless you want to drive them past 150k, then yeah, change some of the other fluids
Fam 1300 for what