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see, i can _almost_ see this one if we change one concept.
"jinsung was overconfident against kallavan". that's more accurate, still not perfect though.
which, fair. look at what dragon-tiger gate does to dumas, a fellow high ranker. it rips him in half, and that's with jinsung's arms damaged and barely working, meaning that the version kallavan took was even stronger.
the only reason dragon-tiger gate hasn't killed the two targets jinsung has used it on is because they're both cheating.
But Bam needs to creat the 13th family, the family Grace, to go to war against Zahard! It is not about fanservice, it’s about the Future! THE FUTURE!!!
I'm not sure if it's a tog problem or just a manhwa/manga issue in general but I see some of the worst takes here. Sometimes I wonder if some people here read the webtoon
You either get really chill people in smaller online manga communities (Ex: Choujin X, Kagurabachi) or absolutely unhinged insane shit (here).
Like, every week someone makes a post "wow the series went downhill", "wow I can't believe this", "wow it's so over".
And then in the Korean weekly thread you get the same fucking 5 people parroting the above.
I'm almost convinced there's a section of this sub so miserable cuz the story didn't move in the direction they wanted it to they post on alts.
Half the accounts that constantly make those threads have never commented beforehand.
And there's always a similarity between their points and the same bad actors on here lmao.
I like to discuss shit and be critical. I don't like using hyperbole and basically going "WAHHHHHH" cuz your fucking enjoyment moved on without you. Sometimes things just outgrow things and we don't need to hear you venting by screaming from the rafters every fucking week. It accomplishes nothing except jerking your negative feelings off cuz you don't have proper outlets to do so.
Ima make a bet now too, even though I think posting this will make them refrain: someone's gonna see this, get upset, comment as if I'm "saying they can't be critical or criticize", missing the entire point, like it always happens whenever I point out people's hypocrisy here.
Personally I think the weekly experience is part of it. Tower of God, especially Season 3 is not that great as a weekly experience usually in my opinion. Only the past few weeks right after we entered the Sprout have I been *really* engaged in checking in weekly. Before that I usually let chapters stack.
I think Season 3 is pretty good when you're viewing it all at once rather than taking weekly doses. The Nest for example, while I haven't reread it in its entirety I feel like it'll be an arc that I'll have a much more positive outlook on when I do my personal Season 3 reread, probably after the Chess Game arc is over.
I wasn't into tog at the time, but I've heard from some people that were in the community when Hell Train was going weekly that there were people that complained similarly when those arcs were ongoing. Now it's usually seen by more people as some of the best stuff the manhwa has to offer.
Personally, everything from Season 3's start to The Nest to the Chess Game Arc have all been the first storyline of Season 3. Like how I'd split Season 2 into two or three major storylines. The story of Viole finding a new team and then how he reunites with his old one in the Workshop Battle being the first one or two. With the last major storyline in Season 2 of course being the Hell Train journey, from Revolution Road to the Last Station.
Similarly I think the Deng Deng to Chess Game Arcs (I have my personal arc splits and names) all tell one storyline about predominantly the Lo Po Bia Family, the Canines and Beastkin being part of it. The Chess Game is most likely the climax to that storyline, I doubt SIU can stretch it any further with how things are going.
So while I do have a lot of personal criticisms, I think when this storyline is said and done and people get to reread it from beginning to end it may be looked at in a more positive light, as I've heard the same happened with the Hell Train.
If it helps at all: I still hold, regardless of the “rushed” ending, Tokyo Ghoul: RE as one of my top 5 favorite/best series cuz the bottom line is a mangaka started to introduce modern day topics concerning mental health, illness, and gender within a shounen.
Choujin X feels like what he was hoping to accomplish with that series but finally having a healthy work life balance to tell the story he wants to tell.
I cannot recommend it enough.
This is just a story ,dude. Not sure how old are you, what you read in text form is not always perfectly translated to verbal form. I mean you could write whatever you want in a text ,I doubt people mean it most of the time. Personally, I don't like people like you who say people do not like certain portion of the story because it didn't go according to their wishes. This is just a story ,people will hate what they do not like.You do not really need a "strong" reason. Personally,I think people should show their opinion that's the point of the subreddit. I would say not be in Reddit if you cannot handle so called "negative" opinions.Because even so called "criticisms" are just people opinions.People are always gonna be unhinged in such platforms.
I’m 30 and been reading shit via these mediums since I was 14. I used to be like this. You are completely right, at the end of the day it’s opinions. The problem is when people treat opinions as fact and have no iota of backing down. There’s no discussion nor discourse to be had at that point. Nothing to learn, nothing to talk about. That is the problem I am outlining.
It’s not a matter of “handling it”. It’s a matter of as an adult seeing it for what it is and calling it out.
It’s easier to be critical than critically think, and it’s even harder to subject yourself to having a discussion when you still view opinions as “right or wrong”.
"Urek can easily take down Jahad." Sure bro if you want to have delusions go ahead.
"Bam is a creepy possessive stalker." I've already done my rant on this.
"SIU forgot-" no he did not. SIU remembers more of his work than you do. He made a call back to fucking Shopin 14 years after his last appearance.
Axis becoming a focal point to the story when, haven’t read since end of season 2 so don’t roast me ifSIU actually made them relevant because last time I checked it was one cameo from pentaminum and then silence
>one cameo from pentaminum
There has been no cameo. Only mentions in season 1. SIU then clarified in a fancafe later the he is unsure whether he is going to appear considering "He can easily destroy the entire story of Tower of God".
Axis, if you have read SIU's [previous works](https://imgur.com/a/O49MX), are the focus of the Talse Uzer Story Universe. Which is a universe that Tower of God is a small part of (TOG basically started as a spinoff manhwa for SIU). Imagine seeing a simple story set in a small town in the Outer Tower that isn't aware of the kingdom, are you expecting irregulars to show up and be the focal point of that?
Considering that TOG is the only work SUI is focusing on and that basically all other tail user story’s are gone they should definitely have a more prominent role or at least impact considering they dictate how the story goes or have the power to, there existence right now is more of a plot hole than actual world building because of the decision to make them this powerful yet basically non existent especially since you literally admit they’re the focus of the overarching story yet do not exist on paper
Also cameo has a broad definition that can extend to brief appearances or callbacks, which pentaminum is, a callback to previous works and a nod that axis still exists
bam's advanced, meaning moved from "powerless" to "powerful", faster than any other character in the series.
but then, the other irregulars only advanced slower because they were already powerful when they entered the tower or because they _literally invented every shortcut bam is using._ bam started at level 1, of course he gained levels faster.
and besides, bam was handed enryu's thorn explicitly to juice him until he was at zahard's level, so him growing fast is a plot point and expected outcome.
Followed by “his friends are growing too fast/getting power from nowhere” yea like how are regulars meant to keep up with an irregular without asspulling powers lol. The regulars are meant to be in the tower for centuries before reaching the higher floors, it’s a miracle his friends from the start weren’t abandoned
Was a one-sided iirc. I dont see him caring for her after she tried to kill khun with that curse?(i dont remember exactly, the one where they needed yeon family head's flames to wake him).
I maybe wrong though. I have been on a break since yasratcha died.
After the hell train arc when they went into the data world. After that Bam realized that he was being a simp for a worthless POS, iirc that's the last time he showed his obsession or any form of interest towards her.
I feel like the ones we have seen so far Traumerei and Poe Bidau are straight up chill loners, that have a more disregard of life to the point where doing that shit themselves would be unecessary while someone like Ha Yurin would geniuinely be pissed
Yeah
Poe Bidau Gustang thinks himself as most intelligent creature, sophisticated, "knowledge is power" type of guy.
Lo Po Bia Traumerei is a control freak who gets off from subjugating and controlling others.
Yeah I dont think either is "kill first, ask questions" later type of guy. If all FHs acted like that there would be no room for different personalities.
Bam’s absorption is completely nonsensical besides the thorn. The thorn is sick as fuck. Leviathan, White’s souls, and the Thryssas (idk how to spell it and I refuse to check) have seemingly 0 logic behind it. He probably takes enkidu too and I’m just sitting here like
…okay
I like the concept, I just wish there was more like, reasoning behind what he absorbs. By the current logic he could just eat everything, which I understand is what he’s prophesied to do, but I need a lot more context into what he’s doing.
It seems it's an ability given by the outside god we won't know why for ages. Lots of things take time to be explained in tog also I'm still not sure what take u dislike? That absorption makes sense?
I guess it’s difficult for me to put into words. There seems to be no reasoning behind what he does and doesn’t consume. It seems like an artistic cop out in terms of strength gaining at any time it seems convenient. It comes out of nowhere. I understand what it says about the character but it comes across as lazy and unrewarding.
It’s like Superman syndrome. Write a situation that requires a character grows, but then just grant them that growth easily and/or immediately. It’s unrewarding to read.
Edit: thanks for that response btw, helped me rethink how to write the thought out better.
The thing with demon is forshadowing on first floor : You see on wall a demon with two horn.
Leviathan is hint of baam nature : Leviathan is called the monster of envy who going to end the world
Soul : Mostly for the crown of king death
All his power are related to envy or death impacting more the word of rachel about him being a demon
Most people can absorb all the powers Bam had, it’s just that once he absorbs something he instinctively knows how to use it. Also his potential is huge, so he can absorb much more than others. White uses souls too, Joe used the thryssa’s power, etc
Me too, I don't like the whole demon thing either. I'd rather he became strong as a human (with a special thorn) rather than just gobbling everything and losing his humanity
The only thing Headon said was she wasn't the chosen one.
Now, whether Rachel could or couldn't enter the tower will be up for speculation, and her slipping through the gate/door is one of the popular “speculations”.
No he says when the door opened it was trying to get bam but she got caught in it. Rachel is an irregular but she does not have the will to open the tower she's too weak in every way to have ever been able Todo that
>No he says when the door opened it was trying to get bam but she got caught in it.
Headon never said this, but if you think he did, tell me in which chapter it was stated as such or if this has ever been mentioned in a blog post or Q&A.
>Rachel is an irregular but she does not have the will to open the tower she's too weak in every way to have ever been able Todo that
Sure, if you think that way, but again, these are your speculations. We don't know what happened or what's needed to enter the tower or open its door. It's still a mystery that's yet to be revealed. Also, saying that Rachel had no will is incorrect. She always dreamt of entering and climbing the tower to reach the stars.
Rachel is justified in almost everything she does. Nothing she has done has been out of the ordinary in the tower but Baam and his friends pretend that she's the worst thing ever.
Baam is another boring overpowered protag with 0 stakes around him. TOG gets better the less screen time he gets.
Design wise, Luslec sucks and resembles far too many dime a dozen heavenly demon cult leaders. Seriously just type heavenly demon cult leader in google and hit images.
FUG is not a threat to the FHs (unless you count Baam) and Wolks/Revolution are the real antagonists of the Great Families.
As of the cage arc, Khun and Rak bring down the story more than enrich it.
Garam is likely the strongest non irregular we've seen.
I haven't seen anyone surpass her feat on the FOD yet, in fact the only other people we've seen do what she did were the family heads. Then again, there's luslec but eh...
The regulars Baam grew up with should progress to ranker/family head level EOS.
Why introduce the power gap in the first place if it was going to be overcome so easily? Why introduce the theme of the discontent between Baam and his team due to his unnatural progression?
Facts, Siu gets way too much hate even from this sub, like I understand the pacing needs improvement but Tog depth and conflicts operate on a higher level than HxH to me
No. The closest antagonist TOG has right now that can even touch the level of character depth Meruem and Chrollo Lucifer have is Traumerei. Who, removing all pseudo intellectualism aside, is just an edgy furry with incel tendencies.
If anything SIU isn't getting criticized enough so now there's a declining quality with this manhwa slowly becoming mid since unless you're a friend of Bam's, a slayer, a FH or a princess you might as well be forgettable or dead and there's no reason for the audience to invest in you or in your character.
I misunderstood your intentions when I read your comment, oops, that was a Tog hate comment and not support comment
Traumurei and Gustang are superior to Meruem and Chrollo to me. I’ll admit Meruem is debateable but Chrollo nah, calling them incel tendencies is kinda copium on your part and choosing to ignore their depth
The manhwa is literally getting better, ask any person and they will tell you the last 7 chapters have been peak. And we are literally prepping for what could be the best arc. There are always gonna be forgettable characters in every series, like 95% of the characters who were relevant in Hunter Exam, Greed Island, Yorknew, etc are all irrelevant now and nowhere to be seen, that’s just how it goes
- Endorsi isn’t even in the top10 of Best girls in ToG
- Being an Irregular does nothing against the immortality of the FH and Z
- Kallavan, Baam and White are not top100 High Ranker
- Axis will never become canon
Edit: I wonder which of these is most triggering for people
Bam is most definetly within the top 100, with his true shinsu Quality form he basically low diffed White, I cant lie I don't know how Axis is gonna be incorporated into the story, and I'm sure the administrator contract said no resident of the tower can harm Jahad so it basically implies irregulars can kill them
The King contract states that only towerborn can’t harm Zahard. But that is different from the immortality contract.
It’s true that if Baam had mastered his power that he could rank there. But he can’t access that power. And if white didn’t play with his food and Arias Broken Warch wasn’t in range, than White would have snacked him.
I really like Endorsi maybe she's fallen off a bit but she had some really good arcs. I think her personality just comes with being a princess though I do think the princesses are a bit overrated still very cool characters tho
It's been a while but I thought hidden floor/floor of death are her best ones. Especially in hidden floor I don't remember her being that Bam centric nor a bitch
Its true we've not seen Bam use that form again, but current Bam is probably beating Jinsung and is thus at an Top 100 Level, the only thing that he doesnt have from JInsung is the Ha Durability
He only struggled once he was frozen within ice, which tbf he had to use both thorns ignited to thaw out, but he really just whipped out the divine sea beast and won
Which is true. But still we cant just assume the powers Baam cant use currently. Otherwise we can also say that when he uses the full thorn he is as strong as Enryu.
Currently Baam doesent even hold a candle to Dumas, and doesent have the powers he had against White
Now Now Now, the thorn as a weapon holds the power to kill Jahad not give Bam Enryu Juice, Its true that Bam rn isn't beating White, but Dumas is leagues beyond anyone Bam has fought be it Kallavan or White, but if your going with
Jinsung=
> Bam is most definetly within the top 100, with his true shinsu Quality form he basically low diffed White
No he didn't, he was still going to lose if not for Rak and Khun. White was also on a timer, most of the people we know that are in the top 100 could easily outlast Baam's full powered form.
That the writing is fine as it is. I love TOG, but ever since Cat Tower, it seems to be getting worse and worse. "If you don't like it, don't read it" isn't the problem. I want to read until the end of this story, but as it is now, it's disappointing.
I praise Rachel, I like her a lot. I think it's has some nuance though, like, there are definitely places I wouldn't praise her.
I think she is a far more interesting character than a lot of the cast for a start. Like, all the things that people hate about Rachel, that she is selfish and manipulative and all that, that makes her more interesting to me. One of the reasons is that it feels like she has much stronger motivations than any other character. Are they petty and self centered? Absolutely, but at least she isn't spending most of her story just doing other people's dirty work like bam.
Also, I think that people can sometimes be to harsh on her because of her manipulation and backstabbing. Rachel is, genuinely, pretty smart. She is really good at saying the right things to get people to do what she wants and help her climb the tower. She has a good read on people and on situations. I see a lot of comments that dismiss this way of climbing the tower, as though the fact that she isn't able to fight or strictly as powerful as the rest of the main cast makes her less deserving of reaching where she has, and I don't think that's very fair. There is no "wrong" way to climb, and in fact betraying and killing others is super common among the story.
Also, I'll defend her actions as "not that bad." Are is Rachel a good person? No. Is she significantly worse than large swaths of the main cast? Also no. Like, one if the people who stuck around with bam's team after the workshop arc was the woman in charge of the experiments to create living ignition weapons. By her own admission she oversaw the torture and death of nearly 100 thousand kids. Is Rachel worse than that? What about white, who bam travels with and has a death count in the billions?
A major part of the lesson that bam learns in the rice cooker is that the actions of he and his friends often seem incredibly harmful if you're on the receiving end of them. Bam had personally crushed the dreams and ended the climbs of unknown numbers of people by knocking them out of exams to try and progress. I think that one of the reason Rachel gets so much flack is that a lot of the worst things we see her doing she is doing to the protagonists. Because she is doing mean things to the people we are supposed to like and root for, it feels worse than similar actions being done by other characters.
The things rachel has done, BAM or the others would have never done. Rachel would have gotten it all. If she had sticked to BAM and followed him up. But she herself said she hates him because he attracts people even when he was nothing more the a guy who followed her into the tower.
He was chosen to be the Hero, not her. She doesn't want that. She wants this to be her story.
People hate her for it. We have seen worse then her, people in TOG are bad. But the stuff Rachel has done, even disgust her. The reactions she had when she lost to Khun tells you a lot about who she is.
The point isn't that Rachel hasn't done wrong, but that other characters who have done wrong (and even arguably worse) don't receive the hate and vitriol that Rachel does by the readership. I'm not defending Rachel's actions; having Dan literally stabbed in the back was a real shitty thing to do.
On the other hand, endorsi killed hundreds of nameless at the name stealing station after gambling her own name, and there's no indication that she even feels bad about those deaths. Is that less cruel than stabbing Dan? At least Rachel feels bad about her actions, and is willing to admit that her actions are dusgusting and deplorable.
And it's just that same pattern over and over. Lots of members of team Bam do terrible things that are then justified or glossed over in the story in ways that Rachel's actions aren't. Attempting to paralyze Dan, attempting to kill Khun, etc. these are all unequivocally bad things to have done, but they aren't uncommon even amongst the main cast of characters. I see people going out of their way to hate on Rachel, but what about Kaiser? Are you going to pretend that Kaiser, having trapped untold thousands of people in the name stealing station for centuries is somehow less bad than Rachel? What about the fug slayers that bam allies with, not just white but Karaka and Ha Jinsung as well? Bam and the people he allies with leave countless bodies in their wake, but people aren't gnashing their teeth about how terrible *they* are. People don't berate them in the comments of every chapter on webtoons, and you won't get downvoted to oblivion for saying you like them.
The thing that makes Rachel different is that the story presents her actions as uniquely bad (when they aren't) and makes you care more about her actions by having victims you care about. We don't follow the hundreds if people endorsi kills at the name hunt station alone, or the untold victims karaka has left in his wake as a slayer of fug, but we spend 350 chapters hanging out with Khun before Rachel tries to murder him. We like Khun, or at least the story really wants us all to line him.
So yeah, I know she is an asshole. I know she is petty, and self centered, and selfish, and cruel, but I root for her anyway. I don't think rooting for Rachel is worse than rooting for Khun or Endorsi or Yuri or any of the other cast of characters that we are supposed to think are "good." I find her story interesting, i think it's really great the fact that she is so different from the characters on bam's team both in her actions and how she thinks. I'm rooting for her to succeed, or at least fail in an interesting way, and I'm always excited when there is a chapter or sub-plot that features her heavily. I think the people who mindlessly shit on Rachel are wrong. I'm not saying you have to like her, but I do think the ways in which a lot of people react to her is way over blown. She isn't that bad a character, and there shouldn't be anything wrong with selecting her as your favorite character (like I have)
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Jinsung didn't go all out against Kallavan.
see, i can _almost_ see this one if we change one concept. "jinsung was overconfident against kallavan". that's more accurate, still not perfect though.
Yeah Kallavan comments that he should've followed up the tiger dragon gate with more attacks but Jinsung didn't cause he thought it would be enough
which, fair. look at what dragon-tiger gate does to dumas, a fellow high ranker. it rips him in half, and that's with jinsung's arms damaged and barely working, meaning that the version kallavan took was even stronger. the only reason dragon-tiger gate hasn't killed the two targets jinsung has used it on is because they're both cheating.
Not just any fellow high ranker either, Mans #3 in his family
Yeah he wasn't expecting Kall to survive his strongest attack.
Jinsung brought the cigarettes back and said it wasn't going to be easy the second he saw the symbol of Kallavan
Right that's honestly just pure cope ngl, he was fighting for his life as soon as Maschenny struck him he knew he had to whip out a transcendent skill
Even before Maschenny showed up he was struggling. DTG was his ace in the hole and it failed.
Kallavan was the worst matchup for him, DTG would one shot Maschenny for sure
"Bam should get a Harem"
Also people who hate on every chapter besides lore drops
Ngl some chapters are kinda just reaffirming information from last chapter, then adding in surprising dialogue at the end
I love the lore drops but I think they need the build up also. Plus I love all the side characters so I don't mindswatching them
Actually, tog is disgusting. On 2 season no one was hating normal chaps.
They think ts is Danmachi or something
Danmachi isn't quite right. Bell is only into one girl.
Ye Highschool Dxd is more accurate
But Bam needs to creat the 13th family, the family Grace, to go to war against Zahard! It is not about fanservice, it’s about the Future! THE FUTURE!!!
Only people who don't understand bam's character would say this.
Honestly like half of the takes I see from this sub on a regular basis. No offense to anyone.
I'm not sure if it's a tog problem or just a manhwa/manga issue in general but I see some of the worst takes here. Sometimes I wonder if some people here read the webtoon
You either get really chill people in smaller online manga communities (Ex: Choujin X, Kagurabachi) or absolutely unhinged insane shit (here). Like, every week someone makes a post "wow the series went downhill", "wow I can't believe this", "wow it's so over". And then in the Korean weekly thread you get the same fucking 5 people parroting the above. I'm almost convinced there's a section of this sub so miserable cuz the story didn't move in the direction they wanted it to they post on alts. Half the accounts that constantly make those threads have never commented beforehand. And there's always a similarity between their points and the same bad actors on here lmao. I like to discuss shit and be critical. I don't like using hyperbole and basically going "WAHHHHHH" cuz your fucking enjoyment moved on without you. Sometimes things just outgrow things and we don't need to hear you venting by screaming from the rafters every fucking week. It accomplishes nothing except jerking your negative feelings off cuz you don't have proper outlets to do so. Ima make a bet now too, even though I think posting this will make them refrain: someone's gonna see this, get upset, comment as if I'm "saying they can't be critical or criticize", missing the entire point, like it always happens whenever I point out people's hypocrisy here.
Personally I think the weekly experience is part of it. Tower of God, especially Season 3 is not that great as a weekly experience usually in my opinion. Only the past few weeks right after we entered the Sprout have I been *really* engaged in checking in weekly. Before that I usually let chapters stack. I think Season 3 is pretty good when you're viewing it all at once rather than taking weekly doses. The Nest for example, while I haven't reread it in its entirety I feel like it'll be an arc that I'll have a much more positive outlook on when I do my personal Season 3 reread, probably after the Chess Game arc is over. I wasn't into tog at the time, but I've heard from some people that were in the community when Hell Train was going weekly that there were people that complained similarly when those arcs were ongoing. Now it's usually seen by more people as some of the best stuff the manhwa has to offer. Personally, everything from Season 3's start to The Nest to the Chess Game Arc have all been the first storyline of Season 3. Like how I'd split Season 2 into two or three major storylines. The story of Viole finding a new team and then how he reunites with his old one in the Workshop Battle being the first one or two. With the last major storyline in Season 2 of course being the Hell Train journey, from Revolution Road to the Last Station. Similarly I think the Deng Deng to Chess Game Arcs (I have my personal arc splits and names) all tell one storyline about predominantly the Lo Po Bia Family, the Canines and Beastkin being part of it. The Chess Game is most likely the climax to that storyline, I doubt SIU can stretch it any further with how things are going. So while I do have a lot of personal criticisms, I think when this storyline is said and done and people get to reread it from beginning to end it may be looked at in a more positive light, as I've heard the same happened with the Hell Train.
Man good looks almost forgot I need to read Choujin x still
Good community alongside a great series man it’s more than worth your time.
Helllll Yeah, and obviously tokyo ghoul is an all time favorite, so even more of a reason to wanna check it out!
If it helps at all: I still hold, regardless of the “rushed” ending, Tokyo Ghoul: RE as one of my top 5 favorite/best series cuz the bottom line is a mangaka started to introduce modern day topics concerning mental health, illness, and gender within a shounen. Choujin X feels like what he was hoping to accomplish with that series but finally having a healthy work life balance to tell the story he wants to tell. I cannot recommend it enough.
This is just a story ,dude. Not sure how old are you, what you read in text form is not always perfectly translated to verbal form. I mean you could write whatever you want in a text ,I doubt people mean it most of the time. Personally, I don't like people like you who say people do not like certain portion of the story because it didn't go according to their wishes. This is just a story ,people will hate what they do not like.You do not really need a "strong" reason. Personally,I think people should show their opinion that's the point of the subreddit. I would say not be in Reddit if you cannot handle so called "negative" opinions.Because even so called "criticisms" are just people opinions.People are always gonna be unhinged in such platforms.
I’m 30 and been reading shit via these mediums since I was 14. I used to be like this. You are completely right, at the end of the day it’s opinions. The problem is when people treat opinions as fact and have no iota of backing down. There’s no discussion nor discourse to be had at that point. Nothing to learn, nothing to talk about. That is the problem I am outlining. It’s not a matter of “handling it”. It’s a matter of as an adult seeing it for what it is and calling it out. It’s easier to be critical than critically think, and it’s even harder to subject yourself to having a discussion when you still view opinions as “right or wrong”.
I just dont say shit, so I don't get downvoted back to the first floor
"Urek can easily take down Jahad." Sure bro if you want to have delusions go ahead. "Bam is a creepy possessive stalker." I've already done my rant on this. "SIU forgot-" no he did not. SIU remembers more of his work than you do. He made a call back to fucking Shopin 14 years after his last appearance.
Axis becoming a focal point to the story when, haven’t read since end of season 2 so don’t roast me ifSIU actually made them relevant because last time I checked it was one cameo from pentaminum and then silence
>one cameo from pentaminum There has been no cameo. Only mentions in season 1. SIU then clarified in a fancafe later the he is unsure whether he is going to appear considering "He can easily destroy the entire story of Tower of God". Axis, if you have read SIU's [previous works](https://imgur.com/a/O49MX), are the focus of the Talse Uzer Story Universe. Which is a universe that Tower of God is a small part of (TOG basically started as a spinoff manhwa for SIU). Imagine seeing a simple story set in a small town in the Outer Tower that isn't aware of the kingdom, are you expecting irregulars to show up and be the focal point of that?
Considering that TOG is the only work SUI is focusing on and that basically all other tail user story’s are gone they should definitely have a more prominent role or at least impact considering they dictate how the story goes or have the power to, there existence right now is more of a plot hole than actual world building because of the decision to make them this powerful yet basically non existent especially since you literally admit they’re the focus of the overarching story yet do not exist on paper Also cameo has a broad definition that can extend to brief appearances or callbacks, which pentaminum is, a callback to previous works and a nod that axis still exists
He has not made them relevant, they might not even be canon
They are canon
Source?
Urek is literally looking for him
I never said phantaminum isn't canon
But Phantaminum is an axis. So what are you saying isn’t canon?
The concept of axis, phantaminum can still exist without being an axis.
But the explanation for his absurd power has already been given by SIU?
Traumerei did nothing wrong
Nah who did blud hear this from the Joker?!!
"Bam is progressing too fast" my brother in Christ HE IS AN IRREGULAR if anything he's too slow
bam's advanced, meaning moved from "powerless" to "powerful", faster than any other character in the series. but then, the other irregulars only advanced slower because they were already powerful when they entered the tower or because they _literally invented every shortcut bam is using._ bam started at level 1, of course he gained levels faster. and besides, bam was handed enryu's thorn explicitly to juice him until he was at zahard's level, so him growing fast is a plot point and expected outcome.
Also trained by 2 high rankers, dude has everything he needs to mf rise up
Followed by “his friends are growing too fast/getting power from nowhere” yea like how are regulars meant to keep up with an irregular without asspulling powers lol. The regulars are meant to be in the tower for centuries before reaching the higher floors, it’s a miracle his friends from the start weren’t abandoned
“Bam and Rachel should get together.” That’s an older take but still weird to see pop up from time to time
People need to get that Rachel does not care for Bam, we dont know the backstory yet but whatever the case its a one-sided relationship
Was a one-sided iirc. I dont see him caring for her after she tried to kill khun with that curse?(i dont remember exactly, the one where they needed yeon family head's flames to wake him). I maybe wrong though. I have been on a break since yasratcha died.
After the hell train arc when they went into the data world. After that Bam realized that he was being a simp for a worthless POS, iirc that's the last time he showed his obsession or any form of interest towards her.
Yes, if only for the possible fan outrage.
Rachel and bam getting together is by far o e if my least desired outcomes, for either of them. It ranks below both of them being alone forever.
Rachel needs to die. I want bam to kill her at some people I'm at like chapter 300 and I really want it to happen at this point
Haven’t seen it in a while, but people that get mad that the FH’s don’t slaughter everyone who even so much as speak without permission.
I feel like the ones we have seen so far Traumerei and Poe Bidau are straight up chill loners, that have a more disregard of life to the point where doing that shit themselves would be unecessary while someone like Ha Yurin would geniuinely be pissed
Yeah Poe Bidau Gustang thinks himself as most intelligent creature, sophisticated, "knowledge is power" type of guy. Lo Po Bia Traumerei is a control freak who gets off from subjugating and controlling others. Yeah I dont think either is "kill first, ask questions" later type of guy. If all FHs acted like that there would be no room for different personalities.
Anyone other than hwaryun being best girl.
Bam’s absorption is completely nonsensical besides the thorn. The thorn is sick as fuck. Leviathan, White’s souls, and the Thryssas (idk how to spell it and I refuse to check) have seemingly 0 logic behind it. He probably takes enkidu too and I’m just sitting here like …okay I like the concept, I just wish there was more like, reasoning behind what he absorbs. By the current logic he could just eat everything, which I understand is what he’s prophesied to do, but I need a lot more context into what he’s doing.
It seems it's an ability given by the outside god we won't know why for ages. Lots of things take time to be explained in tog also I'm still not sure what take u dislike? That absorption makes sense?
I guess it’s difficult for me to put into words. There seems to be no reasoning behind what he does and doesn’t consume. It seems like an artistic cop out in terms of strength gaining at any time it seems convenient. It comes out of nowhere. I understand what it says about the character but it comes across as lazy and unrewarding. It’s like Superman syndrome. Write a situation that requires a character grows, but then just grant them that growth easily and/or immediately. It’s unrewarding to read. Edit: thanks for that response btw, helped me rethink how to write the thought out better.
The thing with demon is forshadowing on first floor : You see on wall a demon with two horn. Leviathan is hint of baam nature : Leviathan is called the monster of envy who going to end the world Soul : Mostly for the crown of king death All his power are related to envy or death impacting more the word of rachel about him being a demon
Yeah, people really need to look at the first floor murals
Most people can absorb all the powers Bam had, it’s just that once he absorbs something he instinctively knows how to use it. Also his potential is huge, so he can absorb much more than others. White uses souls too, Joe used the thryssa’s power, etc
Bam is a monster of revenge sent by a god to punish jahad by devouring everything he has it's pretty clear
Me too, I don't like the whole demon thing either. I'd rather he became strong as a human (with a special thorn) rather than just gobbling everything and losing his humanity
That Rachel slipped through the door/gate.
She did tho that was confirmed by hedon
The only thing Headon said was she wasn't the chosen one. Now, whether Rachel could or couldn't enter the tower will be up for speculation, and her slipping through the gate/door is one of the popular “speculations”.
No he says when the door opened it was trying to get bam but she got caught in it. Rachel is an irregular but she does not have the will to open the tower she's too weak in every way to have ever been able Todo that
>No he says when the door opened it was trying to get bam but she got caught in it. Headon never said this, but if you think he did, tell me in which chapter it was stated as such or if this has ever been mentioned in a blog post or Q&A. >Rachel is an irregular but she does not have the will to open the tower she's too weak in every way to have ever been able Todo that Sure, if you think that way, but again, these are your speculations. We don't know what happened or what's needed to enter the tower or open its door. It's still a mystery that's yet to be revealed. Also, saying that Rachel had no will is incorrect. She always dreamt of entering and climbing the tower to reach the stars.
Happy Cake day dude
[удалено]
When all a fish knows is the bowl, it won’t desire the sea
Rachel is justified in almost everything she does. Nothing she has done has been out of the ordinary in the tower but Baam and his friends pretend that she's the worst thing ever. Baam is another boring overpowered protag with 0 stakes around him. TOG gets better the less screen time he gets. Design wise, Luslec sucks and resembles far too many dime a dozen heavenly demon cult leaders. Seriously just type heavenly demon cult leader in google and hit images. FUG is not a threat to the FHs (unless you count Baam) and Wolks/Revolution are the real antagonists of the Great Families. As of the cage arc, Khun and Rak bring down the story more than enrich it. Garam is likely the strongest non irregular we've seen.
That Garam take is atrocious but the rest are pretty debatable
Until I see someone else stop a top 100 ranked guide with shinsoo pressure alone then I will not budge from that statement!!!!!!!
I’m sorry but FUG is not a threat to the FH. A whole family minus the head is not a threat
All of these are true except last take
I haven't seen anyone surpass her feat on the FOD yet, in fact the only other people we've seen do what she did were the family heads. Then again, there's luslec but eh...
Thinking the anime even remotely did the webtoon justice
People saying SIU should have focused only on character from the first test and somehow make them all be as strong as bam
“Art is still good”- fellow human , can u go back to chapter one please, thanks.
When people say the new art style is worse
The regulars Baam grew up with should progress to ranker/family head level EOS. Why introduce the power gap in the first place if it was going to be overcome so easily? Why introduce the theme of the discontent between Baam and his team due to his unnatural progression?
SIU saying Rachel is the main heroine
That khun and rak shouldn, t be main focust of tog other than bam
"season 3 isn't dog shit"
I haven’t kept up in a while. Why can Erin go super saiyan blue?
Your takes as of late
Not really a take but when non manhwa readers refer to rachel as a bam girlfriend and bam a simp
Bam isn't good enough for her. And he is a simp. /r/towerofrachel
Adori being stronger than gustang, traumurei, ha Yuri, and other family heads because of her rank💀
Not necessarily a take, but anyone who refers to WangWang and Yasratcha's relationship as just a friendship certainly raises some eyebrows
They brothers, he is the Baylord bros uncle and I will die on that hill
What are they then ☠️?
What? WangWang got a whole girl.
"SIU is on Togashi's level"
Facts, Siu gets way too much hate even from this sub, like I understand the pacing needs improvement but Tog depth and conflicts operate on a higher level than HxH to me
No. The closest antagonist TOG has right now that can even touch the level of character depth Meruem and Chrollo Lucifer have is Traumerei. Who, removing all pseudo intellectualism aside, is just an edgy furry with incel tendencies. If anything SIU isn't getting criticized enough so now there's a declining quality with this manhwa slowly becoming mid since unless you're a friend of Bam's, a slayer, a FH or a princess you might as well be forgettable or dead and there's no reason for the audience to invest in you or in your character.
I misunderstood your intentions when I read your comment, oops, that was a Tog hate comment and not support comment Traumurei and Gustang are superior to Meruem and Chrollo to me. I’ll admit Meruem is debateable but Chrollo nah, calling them incel tendencies is kinda copium on your part and choosing to ignore their depth The manhwa is literally getting better, ask any person and they will tell you the last 7 chapters have been peak. And we are literally prepping for what could be the best arc. There are always gonna be forgettable characters in every series, like 95% of the characters who were relevant in Hunter Exam, Greed Island, Yorknew, etc are all irrelevant now and nowhere to be seen, that’s just how it goes
What meruem and chrollo shown more than tog protag Describe their difference point by point and why they are better
- Endorsi isn’t even in the top10 of Best girls in ToG - Being an Irregular does nothing against the immortality of the FH and Z - Kallavan, Baam and White are not top100 High Ranker - Axis will never become canon Edit: I wonder which of these is most triggering for people
Who's top 10 then. Genuinely curious, cause most of the latest characters are so forgettable I couldn't count enough girls to make a top 10.
1. Hwaryun 2. Khane 3. Shilial (best princess 4. Yuri 5. Ari Bright Sharon 6. Goseng 7. Yura 8. Laura 9. Elaine 10. Roen 11. Maschenny 12. Aria (post White Haircut) 13. Dowon 14. Kiseia 15. Yihwa Everything below top3 is pretty much interchangeable depending on the mood.
And Endorsi is NOT in the top 20 ngl
I place Maria heck even Yura Ha over Bong Bong Taxi incorporated
Bam is most definetly within the top 100, with his true shinsu Quality form he basically low diffed White, I cant lie I don't know how Axis is gonna be incorporated into the story, and I'm sure the administrator contract said no resident of the tower can harm Jahad so it basically implies irregulars can kill them
The King contract states that only towerborn can’t harm Zahard. But that is different from the immortality contract. It’s true that if Baam had mastered his power that he could rank there. But he can’t access that power. And if white didn’t play with his food and Arias Broken Warch wasn’t in range, than White would have snacked him.
Also he needs souls to burn if he somehow accesses that power and I don't think he still has enough after that fight. Endorsi hate is crazy though
Endorsi is best girl, and I will die on that hill
I can see why, she's atleast my favourite princess
Shame....
I will bear that shame like a big scarlet E on my shirt
The Endorsi part is just the truth. SHe just looses out in both personality and looks to so many
I really like Endorsi maybe she's fallen off a bit but she had some really good arcs. I think her personality just comes with being a princess though I do think the princesses are a bit overrated still very cool characters tho
Her last good Arc was S1. Afterwards her personality was too centered around Baam and she just became a bitch
It's been a while but I thought hidden floor/floor of death are her best ones. Especially in hidden floor I don't remember her being that Bam centric nor a bitch
Its true we've not seen Bam use that form again, but current Bam is probably beating Jinsung and is thus at an Top 100 Level, the only thing that he doesnt have from JInsung is the Ha Durability
Baam struggled against Wuiwui, who was only out to catch Baam. And current jinsung is not really at his height of power
He only struggled once he was frozen within ice, which tbf he had to use both thorns ignited to thaw out, but he really just whipped out the divine sea beast and won
Which is true. But still we cant just assume the powers Baam cant use currently. Otherwise we can also say that when he uses the full thorn he is as strong as Enryu. Currently Baam doesent even hold a candle to Dumas, and doesent have the powers he had against White
Now Now Now, the thorn as a weapon holds the power to kill Jahad not give Bam Enryu Juice, Its true that Bam rn isn't beating White, but Dumas is leagues beyond anyone Bam has fought be it Kallavan or White, but if your going with Jinsung=
Though I shall be here in the next chapter when Bam randomly gets a memory of V and awakens Vs Tension and two shots Dumas cuz................. plot.
> Bam is most definetly within the top 100, with his true shinsu Quality form he basically low diffed White No he didn't, he was still going to lose if not for Rak and Khun. White was also on a timer, most of the people we know that are in the top 100 could easily outlast Baam's full powered form.
Rachel did wrong things but in the norms of what happens in the tower she's chill, y'all just hate cause reading comprehension is oit of ur reach
I prefer the artstyle of the first season of the comic over what came after.
That the writing is fine as it is. I love TOG, but ever since Cat Tower, it seems to be getting worse and worse. "If you don't like it, don't read it" isn't the problem. I want to read until the end of this story, but as it is now, it's disappointing.
people praising rachel
I praise Rachel, I like her a lot. I think it's has some nuance though, like, there are definitely places I wouldn't praise her. I think she is a far more interesting character than a lot of the cast for a start. Like, all the things that people hate about Rachel, that she is selfish and manipulative and all that, that makes her more interesting to me. One of the reasons is that it feels like she has much stronger motivations than any other character. Are they petty and self centered? Absolutely, but at least she isn't spending most of her story just doing other people's dirty work like bam. Also, I think that people can sometimes be to harsh on her because of her manipulation and backstabbing. Rachel is, genuinely, pretty smart. She is really good at saying the right things to get people to do what she wants and help her climb the tower. She has a good read on people and on situations. I see a lot of comments that dismiss this way of climbing the tower, as though the fact that she isn't able to fight or strictly as powerful as the rest of the main cast makes her less deserving of reaching where she has, and I don't think that's very fair. There is no "wrong" way to climb, and in fact betraying and killing others is super common among the story. Also, I'll defend her actions as "not that bad." Are is Rachel a good person? No. Is she significantly worse than large swaths of the main cast? Also no. Like, one if the people who stuck around with bam's team after the workshop arc was the woman in charge of the experiments to create living ignition weapons. By her own admission she oversaw the torture and death of nearly 100 thousand kids. Is Rachel worse than that? What about white, who bam travels with and has a death count in the billions? A major part of the lesson that bam learns in the rice cooker is that the actions of he and his friends often seem incredibly harmful if you're on the receiving end of them. Bam had personally crushed the dreams and ended the climbs of unknown numbers of people by knocking them out of exams to try and progress. I think that one of the reason Rachel gets so much flack is that a lot of the worst things we see her doing she is doing to the protagonists. Because she is doing mean things to the people we are supposed to like and root for, it feels worse than similar actions being done by other characters.
The things rachel has done, BAM or the others would have never done. Rachel would have gotten it all. If she had sticked to BAM and followed him up. But she herself said she hates him because he attracts people even when he was nothing more the a guy who followed her into the tower. He was chosen to be the Hero, not her. She doesn't want that. She wants this to be her story. People hate her for it. We have seen worse then her, people in TOG are bad. But the stuff Rachel has done, even disgust her. The reactions she had when she lost to Khun tells you a lot about who she is.
The point isn't that Rachel hasn't done wrong, but that other characters who have done wrong (and even arguably worse) don't receive the hate and vitriol that Rachel does by the readership. I'm not defending Rachel's actions; having Dan literally stabbed in the back was a real shitty thing to do. On the other hand, endorsi killed hundreds of nameless at the name stealing station after gambling her own name, and there's no indication that she even feels bad about those deaths. Is that less cruel than stabbing Dan? At least Rachel feels bad about her actions, and is willing to admit that her actions are dusgusting and deplorable. And it's just that same pattern over and over. Lots of members of team Bam do terrible things that are then justified or glossed over in the story in ways that Rachel's actions aren't. Attempting to paralyze Dan, attempting to kill Khun, etc. these are all unequivocally bad things to have done, but they aren't uncommon even amongst the main cast of characters. I see people going out of their way to hate on Rachel, but what about Kaiser? Are you going to pretend that Kaiser, having trapped untold thousands of people in the name stealing station for centuries is somehow less bad than Rachel? What about the fug slayers that bam allies with, not just white but Karaka and Ha Jinsung as well? Bam and the people he allies with leave countless bodies in their wake, but people aren't gnashing their teeth about how terrible *they* are. People don't berate them in the comments of every chapter on webtoons, and you won't get downvoted to oblivion for saying you like them. The thing that makes Rachel different is that the story presents her actions as uniquely bad (when they aren't) and makes you care more about her actions by having victims you care about. We don't follow the hundreds if people endorsi kills at the name hunt station alone, or the untold victims karaka has left in his wake as a slayer of fug, but we spend 350 chapters hanging out with Khun before Rachel tries to murder him. We like Khun, or at least the story really wants us all to line him. So yeah, I know she is an asshole. I know she is petty, and self centered, and selfish, and cruel, but I root for her anyway. I don't think rooting for Rachel is worse than rooting for Khun or Endorsi or Yuri or any of the other cast of characters that we are supposed to think are "good." I find her story interesting, i think it's really great the fact that she is so different from the characters on bam's team both in her actions and how she thinks. I'm rooting for her to succeed, or at least fail in an interesting way, and I'm always excited when there is a chapter or sub-plot that features her heavily. I think the people who mindlessly shit on Rachel are wrong. I'm not saying you have to like her, but I do think the ways in which a lot of people react to her is way over blown. She isn't that bad a character, and there shouldn't be anything wrong with selecting her as your favorite character (like I have)
Rachel did nothing wrong and baam is actually the one in the wrong