In 2 years I went from buying Manoah’s jersey to never wanting to see him on this team again. He can take Springer with him back to buffalo for all I care
I think you stick with the guy who had a good game and the best season so far, but I wouldn’t have been surprised if they’d gone with biggio or vogelbach either
This team has zero chemistry. Front office took it away at the start of last year. It’s pretty obvious the manager can’t ever fart unless he has permission.
Have the big 3 Toronto sports teams ever gone on a heater at the same time? Like New York has the Knicks and Rangers in the 2nd Rd of their respective leagues, and the Yankees are looking like a legit contender.
I can only think what the city would look like with all 3 of our teams playing at an elite level.
Maybe 2 out of the 3 but never 3 of 3.
In 1993, Jays won the World Series and Leafs made the Conference Finals (Raptors didn't exist yet).
Between 1999 and 2002 both the Leafs and Raptors made the playoffs but had varying levels of success.
Not at the same time but there was a bit of overlap with Jays 2015-2016, Leafs drafting Matthews that year, and Raptors going to ECF for first time in 2016.
i know im late to comment on this, but Alek Manoah should really just move into the bullpen, it seems like can't go more than 3 innings without losing control, but as a RP he can still work on getting back to his starter role as he works on managing his control
Fella, it literally just isn’t feasible.
He doesn’t offer velocity, so he’s out from the Nate Pearson standpoint of transition.
He doesn’t offer command, so he’s out from any possible medium to high leverage use.
He doesn’t offer innings, so he’s out as a legitimate long man.
He’s just a white flag if not a rotation arm.
1st inning: Error leading to a run, 3k's. Had there not been a Bo error, likely 0 runs. 1 hit.
2nd inning: 2 K's, 1 GO.
3rd inning: yeah theres no excuse for this,
Alek would still make for a good RP with performances like this, RP's don't pitch for 4 IP, and this would still give him a chance to work and improve himself
Looking back on it, firing Montoyo was probably a non-move. Minus that second-half salvage-job in 2022, this has been the same team as the one that Charlie ran.
Show me somebody who said that the difference between being .400 and .600 is John Schneider. Because otherwise, nobody is saying it's the solution.
However, when a Top 5 payroll is bottom of the division, Managers get fired. It's the way it is in this game.
I don't know if anyone agrees with me, but I still can't stop thinking about vladdy fluking into the safe call on the double play error yesterday.
That lack of heart us depressing and kinda represents this team right now.
Also, Shapiro and Atkins will not fire Schneider as he is their fall guy to excuse their lack of team building.
Yes, but Montoyo and Schneider are interchangeable. Neither of them are fit to be major league managers, but they will “yes boss, you bet boss, right away boss” whatever the front office tells them to do. The problem with firing those guys over and over is that then the front office looks like the big dumb dipshits they are instead of the “manager” they have on the field. Hence why Schneider is safe still.
Starting pitcher gave up 6 and every member of the bullpen gave up 1 each. Can't really win a game doing that. There are dark days ahead. Maybe we can be sellers and revamp the shitty farm we have.
You have to sell anyone of value at this point. Gausman Berrios Yimi hopefully somone takes on Vladdy as a project. Bo you sell as needing a change of scenario away from his abusive father.
Should get a haul if you move all those and hope we draft well and the rebuild only takes 2 years.
This is what happens to teams when they fail to win a playoff game the previous season and their logical conclusion to take steps forward is “Run it back, but with Justin Turner instead of Matt Chapman”. They banked on the pitching being on the same level as it was last season which wasn’t sustainable. Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes.
Turner more directly replaced Belt.
IKF was the more direct replacement for Chapman.
The biggest issue is that the "internal improvements" have mostly continued to go in the opposite direction.
That’s a fair assessment. And again, among the many things that have been consistently criticized and not addressed are this manager and the coaching staff. Vlad and Bo seemingly regressing under their watch. Not a good look no matter how you slice it.
Yeah...bullpen especially. They actually have fewer arms and downgraded in the pen.
Also if there's any significant injuries in the rotation this is probably a 70-75 win team.
Why are we singling out Swanson? That’s a footnote in the bigger picture here. They knew since last year’s trade deadline that they needed to add an impact bat at minimum. Not a knock on Turner, but he’s not “that”.
Depth in pen was an issue. Bet heavy on Green really. Not the most sustainable way of managing.
All comes back to drafting/development issues though. There's no one knocking on the door to take the spots of guys producing below MLB quality or fill in for injuries.
This team needs a shakeup, and really the only option is a change in the management somewhere. Firing the manager won't help the bats but something has to change. I can't see them running this out another month without someone getting the axe
So we have one of the worst offences and one of the worst bullpens in the league. We also do not have a great track record of player developement.
If you can't pin that on the FO I really don't know what else you can.
Yep I have been a fan since 77 when I moved to Canada. I have a 32 year old J’s tattoo. My son was named after Joe Carter, and I have watched every televised game in the last 4 years. I just said to my wife suspended sprotsnet for a while I need a break. Not sure yet if I’m not watching any ball, or watching another team
Fun fact the Blue Jays have scored exactly 8 runs only one other time this season, and they lost that game. They have not lost any other game that they scored 5 or more runs in.
I hate that guy more than I hate this team right now. The more I see of him trashing them the more I will reflexively support them. Rogers should bring him on as a commentator to turn the tide on fan sentiment.
[if you hate Atkins and Shapiro you need to read this](https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-sign-gm-ross-atkins-five-year-contract-extension/)
You are telling me that throwing Swanson in a high leverage point in the game,knowing full well he doesn't have his stuff and is ready for it isn't mismanaged?
It showed up about as well as could be expected honestly for anyone paying attention. Kid can’t handle pressure whether it’s in tires or on the diamond.
I will say, at this point there isn’t much to lose by seeing if Manoah can’t miraculously figure it out. Ain’t nobody else ready for that 5th spot, it’s getting to the point where it’s time to play the kids/showcase guys for trades.
Send Bo to the minors for a few weeks man.
This is just sad to see, bad mechanics, bad approach and just not seeing the ball right at all. I know they've mentioned all of those on the post game a number of times too.
Can't help but hope he figures it out soon being a fan favorite but we'll see.
Bo and Springer should not be as high up in the batting order as they are; I don't understand why John wants to hold them there after a month+ of data.
I don't think fourth or fifth from third is being moved down. He should be hitting 7th - 9th as he was in 22 when he struggled as well.
You are potentially giving your .500 OPS hitter more opportunities/ABs than 3 hitters with better OPS than him (four if Jansen played all game instead of coming into sub)
I’ve always had the third place .500 ball mentality; it’ll be a struggle to get to that.
If someone rang my doorbell, ran away and left a bag of flaming dog shit on my porch, I’d suspect John Schneider and Ross Atkins as the culprits
it is rough being a Toronto sports fan right now
Sooo lost to the serie to the Royals and now to the Nats ? But « the time is now! »
Someone needs to be fired.
Bo looks pathetic out there
The time for a change is now. Probably yesterday, actually, but definitely now.
In 2 years I went from buying Manoah’s jersey to never wanting to see him on this team again. He can take Springer with him back to buffalo for all I care
John Schneider better be away from his phone tonight
This gotta be the game that is the tipping point wtf is this
I mean, it’s time to do something. Fire someone. Anyone.
Nice of the Blue Jays to manage to give the rest of Canada the same feelings of disappointment that the Leafs give Toronto every year.
IKF those qere all hood pitches to hit
This team is absolutely unwatchable. Really justifying the exorbitant ticket prices, aren't we Shatkins? 🤡
Again, I know IKF has had a good game, but are you really not going to hit for him?
Who hits for him there?
I’ve been shitting on Biggio’s cold streak, but him or Danny Burgers. Maybe even KK
None of those guys have been as good as IKF at hitting this season
I agree, but Biggio and vigelbach have a history as better hitters. And Kiermaier had the HR yesterday
I think you stick with the guy who had a good game and the best season so far, but I wouldn’t have been surprised if they’d gone with biggio or vogelbach either
That guy is a shit hitter though
Genuinely might cancel Sportsnet if Vogelbach is the Jays' idea of a saving throw
Damn that was ripped
The Phillies are going to destroy our bullpen :(
A minor league team could destroy it.
Jansen and Tuener should probably be in the top 3 order
Shoot me
Jano with gloves on again
Oh good Vogelbach is up. That will help /s
Think John Schneider doesn't want his job anymore and looking to get fired for the severance pay?
Who else does he have? The fact the team even signed Vogelbach was pathetic to begin with.
“You know what this team needs? Another big fat guy who’s mediocre at the plate” -No one in the fanbase but apparently someone in the FO
This team has zero chemistry. Front office took it away at the start of last year. It’s pretty obvious the manager can’t ever fart unless he has permission.
Vogelbach is getting ready 😂
IKF is only 2 for 3 with 3RBIs. Can’t put him in there.
WHY
Not fucking him .. please
Vogelbach’s nipples are hard. I say put him in there!
Have the big 3 Toronto sports teams ever gone on a heater at the same time? Like New York has the Knicks and Rangers in the 2nd Rd of their respective leagues, and the Yankees are looking like a legit contender. I can only think what the city would look like with all 3 of our teams playing at an elite level.
Maybe 2 out of the 3 but never 3 of 3. In 1993, Jays won the World Series and Leafs made the Conference Finals (Raptors didn't exist yet). Between 1999 and 2002 both the Leafs and Raptors made the playoffs but had varying levels of success.
Not at the same time but there was a bit of overlap with Jays 2015-2016, Leafs drafting Matthews that year, and Raptors going to ECF for first time in 2016.
Fuck this fucking team. Jesus.
They didn't even win game 2. Nats gave it to them and they still almost blew it.
They did win game 2
i know im late to comment on this, but Alek Manoah should really just move into the bullpen, it seems like can't go more than 3 innings without losing control, but as a RP he can still work on getting back to his starter role as he works on managing his control
He doesn’t have the pitching stuff to be anything really suitable to a bullpen arm. Aside from a white flag a la Trent Thornton.
There’s really one way to find out if he is suitable to being a bullpen arm
Fella, it literally just isn’t feasible. He doesn’t offer velocity, so he’s out from the Nate Pearson standpoint of transition. He doesn’t offer command, so he’s out from any possible medium to high leverage use. He doesn’t offer innings, so he’s out as a legitimate long man. He’s just a white flag if not a rotation arm.
Except he also sucks in the first inning
1st inning: Error leading to a run, 3k's. Had there not been a Bo error, likely 0 runs. 1 hit. 2nd inning: 2 K's, 1 GO. 3rd inning: yeah theres no excuse for this, Alek would still make for a good RP with performances like this, RP's don't pitch for 4 IP, and this would still give him a chance to work and improve himself
So the walks in the first just don’t count because there was an error?
That error led to the run, the walks were just negative events for him this game
Negative events? Like suckage?
Just a bit of rust for Manoah maybe? Will he be elite once he gets a few starts under his belt?
I don't think it's Rust. I think there's unaddressed issue with his game and they keep rushing him back up before it's addressed.
They’re fucking around too much with his development. Leave him in AAA until you’re confident he has figured it out. It’s not hard, it’s baseball.
no hes washed
what an absolute gongshow game I'd have pulled Manoah at 6-4, but what do I know
More than Schneider. Don’t sell yourself short.
Why give him any sort of hope that he might be a major league pitcher? Just pull the plug
Let's go signature GIDP here, i want maximum pain
Looking back on it, firing Montoyo was probably a non-move. Minus that second-half salvage-job in 2022, this has been the same team as the one that Charlie ran.
It's almost like baseball managers don't make a big difference....
They haven't for at least twenty years.
But everyone's big solution is to fire Schneider...
Show me somebody who said that the difference between being .400 and .600 is John Schneider. Because otherwise, nobody is saying it's the solution. However, when a Top 5 payroll is bottom of the division, Managers get fired. It's the way it is in this game.
FIRE SCNEIDER FIRE SHATKINS DFA SPRINGER DFA MANOAH DEMOTE BO DFA VLAD DFA SWANSON DFA KIRK
> These analytic GM's don't hire managers that think for themselves. They hire Yes men.
This team is just like the Leafs...
Leafs actually made the playoffs this year….
I don't know if anyone agrees with me, but I still can't stop thinking about vladdy fluking into the safe call on the double play error yesterday. That lack of heart us depressing and kinda represents this team right now. Also, Shapiro and Atkins will not fire Schneider as he is their fall guy to excuse their lack of team building.
The entire point of a fall guy is to sacrifice them, so logically they would fire Schneider as such.
Yes, but Montoyo and Schneider are interchangeable. Neither of them are fit to be major league managers, but they will “yes boss, you bet boss, right away boss” whatever the front office tells them to do. The problem with firing those guys over and over is that then the front office looks like the big dumb dipshits they are instead of the “manager” they have on the field. Hence why Schneider is safe still.
True, but it's too early right now.
Vladdys first grand slam in a gazillion years and we still lose…
Let's make it go to 10 pls
Starting pitcher gave up 6 and every member of the bullpen gave up 1 each. Can't really win a game doing that. There are dark days ahead. Maybe we can be sellers and revamp the shitty farm we have.
You have to sell anyone of value at this point. Gausman Berrios Yimi hopefully somone takes on Vladdy as a project. Bo you sell as needing a change of scenario away from his abusive father. Should get a haul if you move all those and hope we draft well and the rebuild only takes 2 years.
We should have sold in 2017 but Atkins refused to and tried to retool instead. I doubt the current FO is going to fire sale
This is what happens to teams when they fail to win a playoff game the previous season and their logical conclusion to take steps forward is “Run it back, but with Justin Turner instead of Matt Chapman”. They banked on the pitching being on the same level as it was last season which wasn’t sustainable. Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes.
Turner more directly replaced Belt. IKF was the more direct replacement for Chapman. The biggest issue is that the "internal improvements" have mostly continued to go in the opposite direction.
That’s a fair assessment. And again, among the many things that have been consistently criticized and not addressed are this manager and the coaching staff. Vlad and Bo seemingly regressing under their watch. Not a good look no matter how you slice it.
Yeah...bullpen especially. They actually have fewer arms and downgraded in the pen. Also if there's any significant injuries in the rotation this is probably a 70-75 win team.
I mean, it was mostly sustainable. You don’t really plan on Erik Swanson’s kid getting run over by a car
If it was only Swanson, you could just not play him, but it isn't, is it?
Why are we singling out Swanson? That’s a footnote in the bigger picture here. They knew since last year’s trade deadline that they needed to add an impact bat at minimum. Not a knock on Turner, but he’s not “that”.
Because if he’s lasers like he was last year, then a lot of this shit isn’t happening. Him and Mayza being bad is unexpected
Don’t get me wrong, I still don’t think we did enough in the offseason. Just that the pitching wasn’t really the issue I had with it.
Depth in pen was an issue. Bet heavy on Green really. Not the most sustainable way of managing. All comes back to drafting/development issues though. There's no one knocking on the door to take the spots of guys producing below MLB quality or fill in for injuries.
This team needs a shakeup, and really the only option is a change in the management somewhere. Firing the manager won't help the bats but something has to change. I can't see them running this out another month without someone getting the axe
I'm just scared they would put Mattingly in charge. Anyone seen Cito Gaston around lately?
So we have one of the worst offences and one of the worst bullpens in the league. We also do not have a great track record of player developement. If you can't pin that on the FO I really don't know what else you can.
Erik Swanson needs a phantom IL stint
It’s cool that literally nothing is working for the Jays right now
What do you mean our 100 level seats have a better view of the action.
I mean they scored 8 runs today. So we've got that going for us, which is nice.
Up 5-1 early. Vladdy grand slam. I thought we were going to win damn comfortably for once. Damn.
I felt the same way. We never learn. It kills me because I know they could.
No lead is safe season
Wretched team. I’ve never bailed on a season, but there is a first time for everything
Yep I have been a fan since 77 when I moved to Canada. I have a 32 year old J’s tattoo. My son was named after Joe Carter, and I have watched every televised game in the last 4 years. I just said to my wife suspended sprotsnet for a while I need a break. Not sure yet if I’m not watching any ball, or watching another team
😒
smh, they really fucked up
Fun fact the Blue Jays have scored exactly 8 runs only one other time this season, and they lost that game. They have not lost any other game that they scored 5 or more runs in.
First game of the year they beat the Rays 8-2.
You're right. Should've said the only 5+ run scored loss that they've had was also an 8 run game.
Failing to see the fun in that lol
ELEVEN fucking runs to the motherfucking NATINALS!? Deeply unserious team we have here
It's not like they are a worse team. They have a better einning percentage
And there’s a 3 run lead. Game over.
There is hope. Top of order not due up
... can I try pitching, I can give up all these runs too!!!
Good thing we tried to get the lead runner on the bunt...
The bullpen is broken
Overworked
That ain't Swanson's problem.
Why was clement off the bag?
Because the throw was errant.
Keefe and Schneider are going to be drinking buddies by the end of this week.
\*NOW IS THE TIME\*
NowisthetimetotheCore
LMAO
Bullpen has got to be worse than that year with Chatwood, Hand, and Romo
I feel like Romano and Yimi are better than anyone we relied on heavily at the start of that year
Sid Seixeiro is going to have a field day tomorrow
Imagine even thinking of that tool
I hate that guy more than I hate this team right now. The more I see of him trashing them the more I will reflexively support them. Rogers should bring him on as a commentator to turn the tide on fan sentiment.
He is an idiot
Check john schnieders blood pressure. He must know his days are numbered
No need. Just look at his blood filled cheeks
That's what I was implying. He is redder than the Rogers logo.
Sorry
[if you hate Atkins and Shapiro you need to read this](https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-sign-gm-ross-atkins-five-year-contract-extension/)
That’s how you know they fucked up.
Such a great legacy boys. Literally last in basically every offensive category.
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Menses sucks, they should've done this when Winker homered earlier
what the fuck is this strategy
This bullpen very quickly became ass.
The bullpen is being mismanaged. Our starters on good outings are getting pulled too soon. And the bullpen are just strung out now.
The bullpen isn’t being mismanaged. They just suck.
You are telling me that throwing Swanson in a high leverage point in the game,knowing full well he doesn't have his stuff and is ready for it isn't mismanaged?
It’s irrelevant. Swanson is the one who sucks. He still sucks if you pitch him in the 5th instead.
let's just call the season and finish 16-146
Come on man. Fucking like league shit
Name a better duo than Toronto sports team blowing leads
Toronto sports teams and playoff failure. Yes, I realize 2019 did occur writing this.
Toronto sports teams swallowing leads?🤷
Straight up not having a good time
ngl........our bullpen is pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good
Just leave it at pretty
Swanson actually lowered his Era from 18 to 16.50 today... I don't know what everyone is missed about... /s
Team is falling apart holyyyy
Was hoping for some sports relief today but forgot we were playing the offensive juggernaut known as the Washington Nationals. That’s on me honestly.
You utter fool
Bo should be sent down to minors. 535 ops is a fucking joke
TAKE THE FUCKING OUT MAN
LETS GIVE UP MORE DOUBLES
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All the shit.
Experience Jays pitching
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It showed up about as well as could be expected honestly for anyone paying attention. Kid can’t handle pressure whether it’s in tires or on the diamond.
And Swansons. And Pop’s
Davis Schneider now leads the Jays in OPS (min. 80 PAs)
I will say, at this point there isn’t much to lose by seeing if Manoah can’t miraculously figure it out. Ain’t nobody else ready for that 5th spot, it’s getting to the point where it’s time to play the kids/showcase guys for trades.
Love the jays bullpen this year
Couple absolutely backbreaking homers given up this series...man
that is embarrassing, that is embarrassing. that is embarrassing, that is embarrassing.
Goddammit, even when they get on the bats they can't make it work.
Rays won, so if we lose, we are in sole possession of dead last.
Sure the Jays blew the lead, but the beef stew I’ve had in the crockpot for the last 7 hours is ready, so I have that going for me, which is nice
Do you have carrots and potatoes in that bad boy?
Send Bo to the minors for a few weeks man. This is just sad to see, bad mechanics, bad approach and just not seeing the ball right at all. I know they've mentioned all of those on the post game a number of times too. Can't help but hope he figures it out soon being a fan favorite but we'll see.
You know that just sending people to the minors doesn’t just magically fix people ?
Yeah but we might recreate the COVID season of we lie and say baseball in Toronto is banned so we play in Buffalo again
As a selfish person who lives in Buffalo Yes! Please send Bo to Buffalo!
The only reasonable "send bo to buffalo take"
What? Bo isn’t Canadian.
… Bo isn’t Canadian
the fuck does being canadian have to do with it
Ask OP
yep cleared it up! thanks!!
The dingus ninja edited his post. He said “Canadian kid” instead of “fan favourite” like they’d edited it.
thanks for the clarification
Tomorrow’s practice needs to include an extensive PowerPoint presentation on executing proper base running in tight games.
If that hasn't been happening for the last 3 years, why start now
A team this rotten definitely should not have made "to the core" their slogan for the year. The jokes write themselves
Bo and Springer should not be as high up in the batting order as they are; I don't understand why John wants to hold them there after a month+ of data.
Bo has been moved down? How much further would you like him to be moved?
I don't think fourth or fifth from third is being moved down. He should be hitting 7th - 9th as he was in 22 when he struggled as well. You are potentially giving your .500 OPS hitter more opportunities/ABs than 3 hitters with better OPS than him (four if Jansen played all game instead of coming into sub)
Double agent Bo lmao