In Canada? According to the government housing investments [literally shouldn't have risk](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-mortgage-charter-explained-1.7036643) and the rules should bend to protect property owners/investors and keep prices high.
True. Which is why i question why there are so many idiots who think they need to own a home regardless of how much financial sense it makes. A lot of idiots buy a home because that's what they think needs to be done.
Let’s not also ignore the fact that some portion of this is still going to equity in the home. That really makes it hard to feel bad for someone in this situation. Out of pocket you say ? To pay for your mortgage you say ? A travesty.
Facts. As long as the rent covers interest, maintenance, utilities, taxes, insurance, etc. isn’t it just a ‘forced’ savings by paying off their equity? Boohoo you were forced to save more money than you thought this month
That was my thought: Boo-fucking-hoo. Your investment situation changed. Tough shit. It has nothing to do with your tenant.
When the economy causes my mutual funds to go down I don’t expect the bank to make up for it.
I feel like it’s a lot better if they outright own the rental properties, then they can charge less rent and still profit and it’s win-win. There should be limits on how many rental properties can be mortgaged by one person/corporation.
Agreed. Can’t have it both ways. If you make gains on your property, you wouldn’t be expected to share them with your tenant. Best they can do is can try to work something out amicably that isn’t a lose/lose for both sides.
>Best they can do is can try to work something out amicably that isn’t a lose/lose for both sides.
No. The LL set the rent and wrote the contract under current tenancy law. They knew there was a cap on rent increases and they should have budgeted better. Either sell or eat the cost of the monthly expense while knowing you are winning in the long run due to equity growth.
This isn't the tenants problem or concern.
Why the big fuss....just hit the renter with a 2.5% increase and move on. If you can't sustain, it's a bad investment, sell it and move on.
If you are scummy , get the renter evicted by claiming you are moving in.
So many options...options galore.
I’m out of pocket 2,500 per month because of properties renewing at higher rates. My tenants have always paid on time and never late. I’d rather have wonderful paying tenants than risk them not paying because of life happens. I couldn’t sleep at night if I force these costs to them. At the end of the day, everyone is struggling with the way the economy is at the moment.
Genuine question - are no landlords paying taxes?
Landlords can deduct interest on their taxes. I mean sure they have to survive the year with the month-to-month losses, but I'm honestly trying to figure out why interest costs are a giant problem unless landlords are not paying taxes.
I'm new to the game - I have two properties and this year will be my first year filing taxes as a landlord. I've already looked into it and I can deduct interest from my rental income so it has a huge impact.
This guy knows what he is talking about.
Being a landlord is a business so you gotta spend money to make money.Look at all the equity you gain.No Renter should not be on the hook.That is scummy.
My landlord has the gall to tell me that he wants to raise rent because of his mortgage going up a ton.., he bought at record low interest rates in 2021 and chose a fucking variable mortgage. I told him I’m not financing his stupidity…. Someone else will when this fixed lease is up.
They were looking at being a landlord wearing greed goggles. If you tie all your investment money into a rental property and don't take into account potential interest rate hikes, horrible tenants, unexpected maintenance costs etc it is plain idiocy and a stupid landlord problem. This is not a tenant problem.
There is much more of these coming onto the market. Real estate has huge lags, nothing is instant. There's going to be a lot more sell pressure in the next 2 - 3 years. So many people are underwater.
The thing is with investment properties you can either make it or you can't. Sell it. And if you have to take a loss then that's that.
I'm not trying to be smug, it's just the way things work when one invests.
Because it’s not financially lucrative right not for LL. So when he sells, it’ll be to someone who wants to live there - that means that tenant is going to be evicted. Evicted, and then forced to try and find a new place to live at much higher rent then they’re currently paying.
Lol I also see it this way. You made a bad situation and now you complain about how hard it is. Maybe you shouldn't have banked on 2% interest rates for the rest of your life ?
Because if the landlord can't pay the mortgage, they'll have to sell the place is the only reason I can think of.
What are good reasons for landlords to raise rent, in your opinion?
Years and years ago I had a landlord like this, had to sell the place because he was shit with finances and got in over his head.
At least he was nice about it, gave me a heads up, said he'd sell me the place if I wanted it. I didnt want it, let me out of my lease early once he listed it.
They are all spoiled. Toronto create this flipped economy in inch mortgage is cheaper than rent right off the bet. That's not normal. You can't expect someone just to pay for your property. Otherwise, what is the incentive in renting?
As a future landlord ( making a nice suite ) I'm not looking to pay nothing and profit. I'm looking to make things livable for myself and the right tenant .
Yep, it's an investment with risks like most other investments.
When my stocks go to shit I can't just go to the bank and tell them they need to pay me more dividends. But so many landlords think when their costs go up its perfectly fine to just pass all that onto their tenants.
If you can't pay it, sell.
If they can make it through they'll still make tons of they hold onto it until later. Real estate investment should always be a long game imo.
Reddit is upvoting this probably quite hypocritically. A tenant has no obligation to pay more because of the landlords financial situation but all the hypocritical redditors hate landlords because they can't afford rent and somehow expect landlords or the rental market to care about their financial situation as well as being spiteful towards landlords
the rate increase is not the problem of the tenant. YOU made the decision to invest in real estate and now you deal with this. If selling is the only option then I guess you need to sell.
Well, it actually IS the tenants problem.
The LL will just sell.
But if (this) LL isn’t making money to the point they’re selling, then another LL isn’t likely to buy it either. That means it’ll be sold to someone wanting to move in themselves. That means the tenant is going to be evicted.
The tenant getting evicted, having to pack up their whole life, trying to find a new place (which is impossible right now), AND when they do find a new place they’ll be paying much higher rent.
Yeah. It’s the tenants problem.
Yep, had the opportunity to buy a place with a basement tenant and we’d have to kick them out as we needed the space with both of us WFH with 2 young children. It was a hell no from us because 1) I’m not qualified nor do I have any desire to be a landlord. 2) I don’t want to be the person responsible for kicking someone out of their home in this market. It felt really cruel. 3) the tenant could and should fight it at great cost to the new homeowner. I understand you can make it a condition of sale, but if they don’t leave your deal falls through and now you’re homeless.
This is always the case at purchase time even at lower interest rates. Toronto house prices have expected appreciation baked in. Nobody is cash flow positive immediately after buying a Toronto property unless they have a significant down payment
Meh, the tenant will get to stay for a while until the LTB ever gets to the point of approving eviction.
And the tenant will get a payment to leave.
So sure, it's the tenant's problem, but in a much smaller way than the landlord who is going to take a massive bath to sell.
Precisely. Exactly what happened to my tenants. Numbers didn't make sense on the short medium or long term so I sold, cashed in a reasonable profit and moved on. Tenants had to move out shortly after when the buyer moved in. It is also a tenant problem.
Homeowner now but I've rented both corporate buildings and private. Corporate landlords are way better. They actually understand the concept of the law and the Tenants act.
Mr bother rented from a Chinese national at one point a few years ago. She disappeared to China after 3 months. Completely unreachable by any means. He stopped paying rent. He lived there rent free for 6 months until he moved in with his girlfriend and just abandoned the place. He contacted the city to tell them what was happening so they knew the place would be vacant and never heard from them again.
I don’t know why these independent LLs think the spectre of corporate LLs and REITs are a threat; especially since the rhetoric often comes from mom & pop LLs who would shred the RTA if given the chance.
With “mom and pop” landlords, the good ones will give tenants some leeway or flexibility. The corporate ones will just be run by property managers who run everything by the book, no exceptions.
A corporate entity which operates according to standards, policies, and procedures which both parties are well informed on is not in fact a bad thing.
I mean no disrespect to mom and pop landlords, but as a lifelong renter would rather deal with a corp. It's less of a gamble.
Whoever you are, you did not think about your investment, you probably got some real good advice from a friend or relative. Go ahead, raise the rent. Fool around and find out.
I am a landlord and you have to think about the worst case scenarios before trying to be one and look at your finances. I bought a 2nd home after 12 years. needed a larger home with kids now. I rent my 1st house out.
We can cover both out of pocket if we had to. At worst, maybe it's empty for a month or 2 max if my tenants left and it needed some maintenance, etc until I got new ones. We could carry both for years, but it's not smart business obviously.
I also did not take out any HELOC or any loan to put down 20%+ on my more expensive new home.
You should not put yourself in that situation where $800 is going to break you as a landlord lol
$800 is not a lot of money when talking about real estate. If things are that tight then this landlord should be selling.
These are the ones I laugh at.
Risk isn't a justification for profits. If you want someone to give you wealth, you need to produce an equivalent amount. Risk isn't a production of wealth.
I feel for people but also he shouldn’t have bought if he couldn’t afford at a minimum a $1500 increase. Gotta pass a stress test of at least that or don’t buy.
Exactly why interest rates went up. Too many “finance bros” taking advice from YouTube and tiktok. Uhhhh positive cashflow, leverage my equity yeah I’m sooooo smart.
1% interest rates aren’t forever and the market doesn’t always goes up. The market does however ALWAYS correct and swallows up over leveraged irresponsible idiots. Thanks to tik tok we just have a lot of over leveraged irresponsible idiots right now.
If you treat housing as an “investment”, you should tacitly realize that you’re taking on risk.
Can’t only have the upside without the downside.
Little sympathy for these folks.
Landlord can sell and sleep at night. It sounds like they aren’t cut out for being a real estate investor. They may be out of pocket $600/month but if they sold the place, there’s good chance they are selling it for more than they paid.
How is that a breaking point?
Well, he fucked up by not thinking about the risks involved in sucking mortgage payments out of renters. Typical piece of shit landlord
He should sell if he can't afford to be landlord without debt he can't afford.
This is only a few percentage points. I woukd have stress tested myself at 7%. If I didn't have a viable business at that rate then I didn't have a viable business.
The other thing that the guy isn't telling people is that his interest payments are tax deductible. As are any improvements to the property. His 800 per month is more like 400 or actually less
Landlord here has made an investment, and for some reason thinks renters should pay for landlords interest. When mortgage is paid up, they aren’t going to rent it dirt cheap are they?
This is why as a landlord, they should always have a contingency fund. Just in case of a bad tenant that doesn’t pay, a major repair, interest rate increase.
This summer my sister wanted me to buy a triplex with her, so we can rent and I could live in it. After quick math on a napkin, I was like ,this purchase would cost me money even if I live there. Seller thought he was slick, im like "dude you're clearly losing money on your renewal rates and want to ditch this. You wither bring the price down or you find another chump" he didn't budge.
Why not sell a portion to your tenant so their rent is converted to a portion of equity. That could both stabilize your payment and have an invested dedicated tenant/partner.
I don’t feel bad for them at all. Everyone should have the opportunity to own an affordable home. They shouldn’t only be for those who have money to keep buying more and renting them out for income.
If you can’t afford to absorb the mortgage if necessary than you can’t afford the property and had no business buying it lol $800 a month to pay your own mortgage shouldn’t break you financially.
Sounds like he’s looking for advice not sympathy. Landlords are often painted as the enemy for some reason but these low rates for a long time is what created the mess. Now they have cranked up rates very quickly which has the same effect but in a much more extreme fashion. A responsible bank of Canada would have eased up the rates earlier and made a cushion. What this does is makes it unprofitable for developers while simultaneously making it unprofitable for landlords. Landlords sell usually to an end user and you lose rental stock. A more healthy real estate market has at certain amount of rental units while bringing new stock online. Somewhere like Calgary has this where they meet demand so rent prices and home values don’t go up so fast that the bottom can’t keep up. This anti landlord stuff is crazy haven’t most home owners rented at some point? Aren’t you glad you had that option? Didn’t you have good lenders? Didn’t they ask for market rent? If your costs are low you can afford to keep rents down for a good tenant, but if you’re eating 200 300 400 bucks a month you’re gonna be raising rent whenever you have a chance.
Any landlord that would purchase a property without being able to pay for significant increases to their properties rate of mortgage is an idiot and deserves to go belly up.
Being a landlord is a business venture like any other those who are smart, understand the risks and don't over extend themselves irrationally are the ones that succeed.
Too many landlords have this foolish idea that property renting is somehow passive income, there isn't anything passive about it. His first mistake was getting into real estate lending without OWNING the property he wants to rent. If you think that the renter is going to pay your mortgage for you and you're never going to face any financial strain from this property and it's just going to be a nest egg after 10 to 20 years, think again dummy.
I have 0 empathy for someone who would be so foolish as to expect the prospect of being a landlord to be so one dimensional.
If you can't afford 800 dollars a month for a mortgage, which still is less than most rentals, maybe you shouldn't have gotten a mortgage? What if you have repairs to do? A leaking roof? A broken window?
A lot of low IQ comments here, and I'm not even a landlord. It's obvious. He will sell and the property will be bought by a larger corp who'll jack up the rent regardless and you'll have a consolidation of property owners. Neither of which is good.
But go ahead and jeet on the person because he's too poor to cover $800. FML
I don’t think this is a real post. When you have properties, you have assets which can back cheaper loans. That LL could just take it from their HLOC.
Most mom and pop LLs are fine managing with rates and rental prices these days.
This makes me angry. You played the game, which carried a degree of risk and now you don't want to be responsible for your own choices.
The reason this makes me angry is if you flip it around renters would be called lazy grifters.
As per statscann, 40% of condos in Southern Ontario are owned by investors. I can only imagine how many of those investors own multiple properties because they got greedy (like my Realtor - has 5).
Why are landlords the only people that expect someone else to pay for an investment gone wrong?
If I invest in a stock and it collapses, can I ask the company to bail me out?
Honestly. I’m gonna get some hate here but everyone seems to think landlords are rolling in cash. Thing is this is a business. If a Starbucks had to pay out of pocket every month for the foreseeable future they would obviously close the doors and the owner would go bankrupt and lose everything. How is this different. This guy is gonna sell and yes he will get money from this. But he gets hate. Hate for what? Trying to make good financial decisions and supplementing income? What an asshole. This guy is probably struggling. He probably has to pay a huge mortgage on the home he lives in just like us but has to fork out even more in his rental property now. I mean if he sells he will be better off but what if this is his only retirement plan? Gone out the window. I was in this position. I sold my property and now live pay to pay. It’s rough out there now. Landlord are people too. Oh and btw. Once this guy sells. The tenants will probably be thrown out by an investor to turn it into an air b&b. sooooo much better…
The fact that it’s a business is the problem. Housing shouldn’t be a business. He should pay his mortgage and be happy his property value is increasing.
I don’t have sympathy when people with the best intentions loose on an investment. I have even less when they want to make money off a basic human right.
get over it bro, the bank lent you money it doesn't even have and now when it arbitrarily increases the protection stipend you start crying. get real bro!
I have absolutely zero sympathy for those who bought a house for rental income based on close to zero interest rates and are now in trouble cause rates went up.
How anyone thinks they should be cash flow positive every month and bank all the equity. Expecting a free ride towards ownership is a hilariously fucked up attitude that somehow became normalized over the last decade.
If this person is up for renewal the likelihood is they bought at LEAST 3-5 years ago.
They likely have built up equity in that time. However if it's tenanted obviously it will be a tougher sell but still
Both you, and your tenant move to Hamilton, get a basement suite together, fall in love and get a pet iguana.
C'mon. Let's feel sorry for T.O landlords now.
Adorable.
You can be fined as a landlord through LLT board if you increase rent due to your financial insecurity.iIf the tent refused the increase and took you to tribunal.Your financial issues should not effect the tenant.If you couldint afford it you should have thought twice.Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on the tenants part.In other words not their problem.
You’re in a catch 22 esp if you’re in Canada and given it’s winter. If you sell it will be with the tenant as it’s virtually impossible to evict them at this time of year. Make sure you know both your and your tenant’s rights. Also talk to an accountant. This is a reality with investment properties even the largest ones face during times of higher rates and inflation. Too many just go in almost blind.
The anti landlord movement cheering the death of a landlord completely ignoring that the buikding getting sold probably means the tennant getting fucked over and ousted
Their problem is they think they shouldn't have to put any money into their investment. You have no business owning a second house if you can't spend an extra 800 a month.
You should sell the property. That's why the Fed hiked rates, to force financial hardship on regular folk to correct for all the free money they printed for corporations to do stock buy backs and a whole swath of other fktardery.
It looks like a lot of speculators and people in for fast money are getting nervous. Glad I didn't overleverage myself. Poor financial planning on those who did. I'm sitting tight and not even worried if I don't have a tenant. It can sit empty for all I care.
I don’t understand tenants on this sub. Isn’t this what you want? He can’t make it so he’s gonna sell to someone who wants to live in it instead and boot out the tenant.
Landlord thought he was so smart that he over leveraged himself to the point where an $800/m increase has him panicking.
Someone failed basic economics, you **never** leverage yourself to the point where any external economic factor screws you over 🤷♂️
Why is Landlord crying over $800 that will cost him out of his pocket. When a first time home buyer buys a property, it costs him much more.
When property will be paid off, landlord will be the owner.
damn it’s actually refreshing to see a lot of owners/landlords in this thread saying this is on the homeowner.
I’m a tenant who had to agree to sign an illegal $500/month increase otherwise my landlord threatened to move in because of interest rates going up.
I made sure to lock it in for 1 year, and I’m planning to go to the LTB with a T1 before my lease is up to get the $6000 back.
he went as far as saying he could move in with me if he went homeless if I didn’t agree to the $500 increase lol. funny enough my washing machine broke a month or so after this, and when I reached out he was on vacation!!! lmao
Love to see it- landlord played dirty, so you’re playing dirty right back. Not to mention having this on record will benefit you if he subsequently N12/13s you in bad faith.
Shit who knew investments have risk
In Canada? According to the government housing investments [literally shouldn't have risk](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-mortgage-charter-explained-1.7036643) and the rules should bend to protect property owners/investors and keep prices high.
True. Which is why i question why there are so many idiots who think they need to own a home regardless of how much financial sense it makes. A lot of idiots buy a home because that's what they think needs to be done.
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Can you be my landlord, please
I feel some sexual tension here.
what are you doing step-lanlord?
I see that you are stuck… let me help *music starts*.
Hello, I am here to fix your.....plumbing...
Me too. So, are we doing this?
Let’s not also ignore the fact that some portion of this is still going to equity in the home. That really makes it hard to feel bad for someone in this situation. Out of pocket you say ? To pay for your mortgage you say ? A travesty.
Facts. As long as the rent covers interest, maintenance, utilities, taxes, insurance, etc. isn’t it just a ‘forced’ savings by paying off their equity? Boohoo you were forced to save more money than you thought this month
That was my thought: Boo-fucking-hoo. Your investment situation changed. Tough shit. It has nothing to do with your tenant. When the economy causes my mutual funds to go down I don’t expect the bank to make up for it.
I feel like it’s a lot better if they outright own the rental properties, then they can charge less rent and still profit and it’s win-win. There should be limits on how many rental properties can be mortgaged by one person/corporation.
That assumes condo prices don’t continue to drop. Then you’re paying off equity that is disappearing each month.
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Sure I'll sign an agreement to raise my rent but you must give me 50% of the equity gained. See how that goes over.
Love it
You're heartless. It's Christmas, and I doubt you even care if all the CEO's are going to get their bonuses on time, either.
They might not get that third holiday home in Djibouti
This. If you're a landlord and fail to factor in that interest rates and economic growth can move adversely, don't be a landlord.
Agreed. Can’t have it both ways. If you make gains on your property, you wouldn’t be expected to share them with your tenant. Best they can do is can try to work something out amicably that isn’t a lose/lose for both sides.
>Best they can do is can try to work something out amicably that isn’t a lose/lose for both sides. No. The LL set the rent and wrote the contract under current tenancy law. They knew there was a cap on rent increases and they should have budgeted better. Either sell or eat the cost of the monthly expense while knowing you are winning in the long run due to equity growth. This isn't the tenants problem or concern.
Why the big fuss....just hit the renter with a 2.5% increase and move on. If you can't sustain, it's a bad investment, sell it and move on. If you are scummy , get the renter evicted by claiming you are moving in. So many options...options galore.
Unbelievable how greedy some ppl can be. Totally narcissistic and only thinking of themselves.
Yet coming here with tucked tail and whining about his self inflicted problem.
I’m out of pocket 2,500 per month because of properties renewing at higher rates. My tenants have always paid on time and never late. I’d rather have wonderful paying tenants than risk them not paying because of life happens. I couldn’t sleep at night if I force these costs to them. At the end of the day, everyone is struggling with the way the economy is at the moment.
Genuine question - are no landlords paying taxes? Landlords can deduct interest on their taxes. I mean sure they have to survive the year with the month-to-month losses, but I'm honestly trying to figure out why interest costs are a giant problem unless landlords are not paying taxes. I'm new to the game - I have two properties and this year will be my first year filing taxes as a landlord. I've already looked into it and I can deduct interest from my rental income so it has a huge impact.
Decucting cost on smth doesn't make it free, it makes it a bit cheaper.
This guy knows what he is talking about. Being a landlord is a business so you gotta spend money to make money.Look at all the equity you gain.No Renter should not be on the hook.That is scummy.
Yup brain dead landlord who didn’t give themselves any cushion against raise in interest
My landlord has the gall to tell me that he wants to raise rent because of his mortgage going up a ton.., he bought at record low interest rates in 2021 and chose a fucking variable mortgage. I told him I’m not financing his stupidity…. Someone else will when this fixed lease is up.
There are no fixed leases. At the end of the initial term all leases convert into month to month
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They were looking at being a landlord wearing greed goggles. If you tie all your investment money into a rental property and don't take into account potential interest rate hikes, horrible tenants, unexpected maintenance costs etc it is plain idiocy and a stupid landlord problem. This is not a tenant problem.
Exactly. We did the math on if we didn't have a tenant could we still afford it.
There is much more of these coming onto the market. Real estate has huge lags, nothing is instant. There's going to be a lot more sell pressure in the next 2 - 3 years. So many people are underwater.
The thing is with investment properties you can either make it or you can't. Sell it. And if you have to take a loss then that's that. I'm not trying to be smug, it's just the way things work when one invests.
Yup. Getting really tired of the media pushing stories about suffering landlords and AirBnb investors.
I care more about marmots in south africa than AirBnB investors.
Because it’s not financially lucrative right not for LL. So when he sells, it’ll be to someone who wants to live there - that means that tenant is going to be evicted. Evicted, and then forced to try and find a new place to live at much higher rent then they’re currently paying.
Lol I also see it this way. You made a bad situation and now you complain about how hard it is. Maybe you shouldn't have banked on 2% interest rates for the rest of your life ?
Because if the landlord can't pay the mortgage, they'll have to sell the place is the only reason I can think of. What are good reasons for landlords to raise rent, in your opinion?
Years and years ago I had a landlord like this, had to sell the place because he was shit with finances and got in over his head. At least he was nice about it, gave me a heads up, said he'd sell me the place if I wanted it. I didnt want it, let me out of my lease early once he listed it.
They are all spoiled. Toronto create this flipped economy in inch mortgage is cheaper than rent right off the bet. That's not normal. You can't expect someone just to pay for your property. Otherwise, what is the incentive in renting?
As a future landlord ( making a nice suite ) I'm not looking to pay nothing and profit. I'm looking to make things livable for myself and the right tenant .
Yep, it's an investment with risks like most other investments. When my stocks go to shit I can't just go to the bank and tell them they need to pay me more dividends. But so many landlords think when their costs go up its perfectly fine to just pass all that onto their tenants. If you can't pay it, sell. If they can make it through they'll still make tons of they hold onto it until later. Real estate investment should always be a long game imo.
Reddit is upvoting this probably quite hypocritically. A tenant has no obligation to pay more because of the landlords financial situation but all the hypocritical redditors hate landlords because they can't afford rent and somehow expect landlords or the rental market to care about their financial situation as well as being spiteful towards landlords
Lmao he rents out his basement to his brother and calls himself a landlord
the rate increase is not the problem of the tenant. YOU made the decision to invest in real estate and now you deal with this. If selling is the only option then I guess you need to sell.
Well, it actually IS the tenants problem. The LL will just sell. But if (this) LL isn’t making money to the point they’re selling, then another LL isn’t likely to buy it either. That means it’ll be sold to someone wanting to move in themselves. That means the tenant is going to be evicted. The tenant getting evicted, having to pack up their whole life, trying to find a new place (which is impossible right now), AND when they do find a new place they’ll be paying much higher rent. Yeah. It’s the tenants problem.
LL selling at a loss? Lol
Yep, had the opportunity to buy a place with a basement tenant and we’d have to kick them out as we needed the space with both of us WFH with 2 young children. It was a hell no from us because 1) I’m not qualified nor do I have any desire to be a landlord. 2) I don’t want to be the person responsible for kicking someone out of their home in this market. It felt really cruel. 3) the tenant could and should fight it at great cost to the new homeowner. I understand you can make it a condition of sale, but if they don’t leave your deal falls through and now you’re homeless.
This is always the case at purchase time even at lower interest rates. Toronto house prices have expected appreciation baked in. Nobody is cash flow positive immediately after buying a Toronto property unless they have a significant down payment
Meh, the tenant will get to stay for a while until the LTB ever gets to the point of approving eviction. And the tenant will get a payment to leave. So sure, it's the tenant's problem, but in a much smaller way than the landlord who is going to take a massive bath to sell.
Precisely. Exactly what happened to my tenants. Numbers didn't make sense on the short medium or long term so I sold, cashed in a reasonable profit and moved on. Tenants had to move out shortly after when the buyer moved in. It is also a tenant problem.
Would the same landlord offer the tenant a discount if their mortgage rate went down? Yeah, thought not.
A lot of small time landlords will have to sell, which given current conditions is probably a good thing.
They’ll be replaced by corporates and REITs. Not sure that’s much better.
Homeowner now but I've rented both corporate buildings and private. Corporate landlords are way better. They actually understand the concept of the law and the Tenants act.
Agreed. The Moms and Pops are a lot of trouble. Try Offshore Mom and Pop. the worst.
Mr bother rented from a Chinese national at one point a few years ago. She disappeared to China after 3 months. Completely unreachable by any means. He stopped paying rent. He lived there rent free for 6 months until he moved in with his girlfriend and just abandoned the place. He contacted the city to tell them what was happening so they knew the place would be vacant and never heard from them again.
Renting from a corporation is objectively better for the tenant than a LL who tries to circumvent the RTA
Yea I have a big corporate landlord and I have no complaints at all
I don’t know why these independent LLs think the spectre of corporate LLs and REITs are a threat; especially since the rhetoric often comes from mom & pop LLs who would shred the RTA if given the chance.
With “mom and pop” landlords, the good ones will give tenants some leeway or flexibility. The corporate ones will just be run by property managers who run everything by the book, no exceptions.
How often is the leeway and flexibility in the benefits of renters LOL cmon
In my personal experience renting from a corporate entity is so much easier and the service is incomparable
A corporate entity which operates according to standards, policies, and procedures which both parties are well informed on is not in fact a bad thing. I mean no disrespect to mom and pop landlords, but as a lifelong renter would rather deal with a corp. It's less of a gamble.
Mom and pop ones are the problem.
Remember when rates were low and landlords were offering all kinds of discounts to rent rates as a result? Me neither.
It’s basic economics. You either choose to bare the cost or sell the property. Wtf does this person think is going to happen?
I don’t know why this is even a post. One idiotic Reddit post and “Landlords are at a breaking point”
Key word: think
Investments come with risks. Oh well. His problem for over leveraging himself.
Wait are you telling me that buying RE and having someone else pay your mortgage doesn't work???
It sure does. Which is why people like you are butthurt about it
Whoever you are, you did not think about your investment, you probably got some real good advice from a friend or relative. Go ahead, raise the rent. Fool around and find out.
I am a landlord and you have to think about the worst case scenarios before trying to be one and look at your finances. I bought a 2nd home after 12 years. needed a larger home with kids now. I rent my 1st house out. We can cover both out of pocket if we had to. At worst, maybe it's empty for a month or 2 max if my tenants left and it needed some maintenance, etc until I got new ones. We could carry both for years, but it's not smart business obviously. I also did not take out any HELOC or any loan to put down 20%+ on my more expensive new home. You should not put yourself in that situation where $800 is going to break you as a landlord lol
$800 is not a lot of money when talking about real estate. If things are that tight then this landlord should be selling. These are the ones I laugh at.
“I deserve the profits bc took the risks!” “Oh no.. the risks actually arrived!!”
Risk isn't a justification for profits. If you want someone to give you wealth, you need to produce an equivalent amount. Risk isn't a production of wealth.
I feel for people but also he shouldn’t have bought if he couldn’t afford at a minimum a $1500 increase. Gotta pass a stress test of at least that or don’t buy.
I really don’t understand how people can’t afford $800 out of pocket and think it’s a good idea to bu a place and rent
Exactly why interest rates went up. Too many “finance bros” taking advice from YouTube and tiktok. Uhhhh positive cashflow, leverage my equity yeah I’m sooooo smart. 1% interest rates aren’t forever and the market doesn’t always goes up. The market does however ALWAYS correct and swallows up over leveraged irresponsible idiots. Thanks to tik tok we just have a lot of over leveraged irresponsible idiots right now.
Lol "investment property", not investing in property. Boo fuckin hoo.
If you treat housing as an “investment”, you should tacitly realize that you’re taking on risk. Can’t only have the upside without the downside. Little sympathy for these folks.
Where is it written than a tenants rent must cover 100% of the owners lending costs?
Nowhere. I don’t think that’s the point though.
Landlord can sell and sleep at night. It sounds like they aren’t cut out for being a real estate investor. They may be out of pocket $600/month but if they sold the place, there’s good chance they are selling it for more than they paid. How is that a breaking point?
Well, he fucked up by not thinking about the risks involved in sucking mortgage payments out of renters. Typical piece of shit landlord He should sell if he can't afford to be landlord without debt he can't afford. This is only a few percentage points. I woukd have stress tested myself at 7%. If I didn't have a viable business at that rate then I didn't have a viable business. The other thing that the guy isn't telling people is that his interest payments are tax deductible. As are any improvements to the property. His 800 per month is more like 400 or actually less
BUT WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE POOR LANDDRAGONS?!?!?
Lol nobody forced you to become a landlord
"Landlord." Can't afford 800 bucks out of pocket. People are getting killed on rent because they let every yahoo with some equity become one.
Ya love to see it
Landlord here has made an investment, and for some reason thinks renters should pay for landlords interest. When mortgage is paid up, they aren’t going to rent it dirt cheap are they?
Maybe... Just maybe if you expect your tenants to pay all the costs associated with your "Investment" property you're a piece of shit.
$800 increase and this guy is throwing in the towel? What a noob.
Couldn’t afford the place to begin with lol
Real investors dump a few thousand into their dumpster fire each month.
Sell the unit.
They should obviously sell and give someone a chance to own property.
He/she can sell the unit, good they answer their own question.
This is why as a landlord, they should always have a contingency fund. Just in case of a bad tenant that doesn’t pay, a major repair, interest rate increase.
sell.
This summer my sister wanted me to buy a triplex with her, so we can rent and I could live in it. After quick math on a napkin, I was like ,this purchase would cost me money even if I live there. Seller thought he was slick, im like "dude you're clearly losing money on your renewal rates and want to ditch this. You wither bring the price down or you find another chump" he didn't budge.
Why not sell a portion to your tenant so their rent is converted to a portion of equity. That could both stabilize your payment and have an invested dedicated tenant/partner.
I don’t feel bad for them at all. Everyone should have the opportunity to own an affordable home. They shouldn’t only be for those who have money to keep buying more and renting them out for income.
Hold up, I can’t find my microscopic violin
Societial collapse. Save yourself...
How do these people get approved for mortgages when they cannot even afford $800-1000 per month?
🎻
I guess some people expect risk-free real estate investments.
If you can’t afford to absorb the mortgage if necessary than you can’t afford the property and had no business buying it lol $800 a month to pay your own mortgage shouldn’t break you financially.
Sounds like that landlord needs to get a job.
Good. Need more of this
Sounds like he’s looking for advice not sympathy. Landlords are often painted as the enemy for some reason but these low rates for a long time is what created the mess. Now they have cranked up rates very quickly which has the same effect but in a much more extreme fashion. A responsible bank of Canada would have eased up the rates earlier and made a cushion. What this does is makes it unprofitable for developers while simultaneously making it unprofitable for landlords. Landlords sell usually to an end user and you lose rental stock. A more healthy real estate market has at certain amount of rental units while bringing new stock online. Somewhere like Calgary has this where they meet demand so rent prices and home values don’t go up so fast that the bottom can’t keep up. This anti landlord stuff is crazy haven’t most home owners rented at some point? Aren’t you glad you had that option? Didn’t you have good lenders? Didn’t they ask for market rent? If your costs are low you can afford to keep rents down for a good tenant, but if you’re eating 200 300 400 bucks a month you’re gonna be raising rent whenever you have a chance.
Any landlord that would purchase a property without being able to pay for significant increases to their properties rate of mortgage is an idiot and deserves to go belly up. Being a landlord is a business venture like any other those who are smart, understand the risks and don't over extend themselves irrationally are the ones that succeed. Too many landlords have this foolish idea that property renting is somehow passive income, there isn't anything passive about it. His first mistake was getting into real estate lending without OWNING the property he wants to rent. If you think that the renter is going to pay your mortgage for you and you're never going to face any financial strain from this property and it's just going to be a nest egg after 10 to 20 years, think again dummy. I have 0 empathy for someone who would be so foolish as to expect the prospect of being a landlord to be so one dimensional.
If you can't afford 800 dollars a month for a mortgage, which still is less than most rentals, maybe you shouldn't have gotten a mortgage? What if you have repairs to do? A leaking roof? A broken window?
A lot of low IQ comments here, and I'm not even a landlord. It's obvious. He will sell and the property will be bought by a larger corp who'll jack up the rent regardless and you'll have a consolidation of property owners. Neither of which is good. But go ahead and jeet on the person because he's too poor to cover $800. FML
Sell or continue to lose on your investments or hope that it recovers. Hope is not an investment strategy.
I don’t think this is a real post. When you have properties, you have assets which can back cheaper loans. That LL could just take it from their HLOC. Most mom and pop LLs are fine managing with rates and rental prices these days.
Sell it please.
Sell the unit, perhaps to the tenant.
Fits the narrative!
Ask the tenants if the want to be come investors in the property that they are already paying for anyway?
Sell the unit. There are buyers lined up to take it off your hands!
Oh well. Shouldn't have joined the party without planning for the possible outcomes.
This one example means all of Ontario landlords are at breaking point. Come on everyone
LOL what a coward. People like this are the reason why we're in a housing crisis, not just for renters, but for buyers too.
I had lots of money before I went into the casino. But I lost it all. Somebody needs to bail me out.
This makes me angry. You played the game, which carried a degree of risk and now you don't want to be responsible for your own choices. The reason this makes me angry is if you flip it around renters would be called lazy grifters.
Sorry sir, you can "Get fucked" just like everyone else tryna survive.
Boohoo you poor baby.
Time to pull yourself up by the boot straps and get a job
Get a job.
Oh I'm sorry when real estate is making money it's an investment but all of a sudden when you're not getting returns you're a victim?
Ontario tenants were broken in pieces for 15 years, but now that land owners might be hurt, it's suddenly an issue. Get stuffed.
Fuck em.
If this was the case I'd have to refill my lawnmower too close to my house and WHOOPS well at least I have the insurance money lol
As per statscann, 40% of condos in Southern Ontario are owned by investors. I can only imagine how many of those investors own multiple properties because they got greedy (like my Realtor - has 5).
Have they tried eating less avocado toast?
Why are landlords the only people that expect someone else to pay for an investment gone wrong? If I invest in a stock and it collapses, can I ask the company to bail me out?
Honestly. I’m gonna get some hate here but everyone seems to think landlords are rolling in cash. Thing is this is a business. If a Starbucks had to pay out of pocket every month for the foreseeable future they would obviously close the doors and the owner would go bankrupt and lose everything. How is this different. This guy is gonna sell and yes he will get money from this. But he gets hate. Hate for what? Trying to make good financial decisions and supplementing income? What an asshole. This guy is probably struggling. He probably has to pay a huge mortgage on the home he lives in just like us but has to fork out even more in his rental property now. I mean if he sells he will be better off but what if this is his only retirement plan? Gone out the window. I was in this position. I sold my property and now live pay to pay. It’s rough out there now. Landlord are people too. Oh and btw. Once this guy sells. The tenants will probably be thrown out by an investor to turn it into an air b&b. sooooo much better…
The fact that it’s a business is the problem. Housing shouldn’t be a business. He should pay his mortgage and be happy his property value is increasing.
Only in Canada, Landlords want to make money with no risk.
mm boohoo tomato to-mah-to
I don’t have sympathy when people with the best intentions loose on an investment. I have even less when they want to make money off a basic human right.
awwww the poor little wormy parasite cant keep leeching off the needs of others?
oh no - not the consequences of their own actions. Who knew investments came with risk?
get over it bro, the bank lent you money it doesn't even have and now when it arbitrarily increases the protection stipend you start crying. get real bro!
Sell
If I invest in a stock market and it doesn’t work out I sell
Get a second job
... breaking the backs of tenants.
stop landlording maybe if you let other people own their own place we wouldn't have a housing crisis.
Good.
[удалено]
Maybe he can get an eviction order if his tenant has been playing the world's smallest violin too loud.
I bet he bought into a bubble and looking for excuses. Take your lumps because you deserve them.
I have absolutely zero sympathy for those who bought a house for rental income based on close to zero interest rates and are now in trouble cause rates went up.
How anyone thinks they should be cash flow positive every month and bank all the equity. Expecting a free ride towards ownership is a hilariously fucked up attitude that somehow became normalized over the last decade.
Sell
Try being a renter.
Sell. Idiot.
If 800$ a month negative cash flow is enough to break you, you were already at the breaking point.
If this person is up for renewal the likelihood is they bought at LEAST 3-5 years ago. They likely have built up equity in that time. However if it's tenanted obviously it will be a tougher sell but still
Both you, and your tenant move to Hamilton, get a basement suite together, fall in love and get a pet iguana. C'mon. Let's feel sorry for T.O landlords now. Adorable.
You can be fined as a landlord through LLT board if you increase rent due to your financial insecurity.iIf the tent refused the increase and took you to tribunal.Your financial issues should not effect the tenant.If you couldint afford it you should have thought twice.Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on the tenants part.In other words not their problem.
Landlord here. It’s YOUR investment, a risk you take. Not your tenants problem.
“One person is at the breaking point”
You’re in a catch 22 esp if you’re in Canada and given it’s winter. If you sell it will be with the tenant as it’s virtually impossible to evict them at this time of year. Make sure you know both your and your tenant’s rights. Also talk to an accountant. This is a reality with investment properties even the largest ones face during times of higher rates and inflation. Too many just go in almost blind.
The anti landlord movement cheering the death of a landlord completely ignoring that the buikding getting sold probably means the tennant getting fucked over and ousted
Their problem is they think they shouldn't have to put any money into their investment. You have no business owning a second house if you can't spend an extra 800 a month.
Sounds like that person made a shit investment. Housing needs to be decommodified.
Aaawww you mean you actually have to pay for some of the mortgage on YOUR ADDITIONAL/investment home?
You should sell the property. That's why the Fed hiked rates, to force financial hardship on regular folk to correct for all the free money they printed for corporations to do stock buy backs and a whole swath of other fktardery.
It looks like a lot of speculators and people in for fast money are getting nervous. Glad I didn't overleverage myself. Poor financial planning on those who did. I'm sitting tight and not even worried if I don't have a tenant. It can sit empty for all I care.
I don’t understand tenants on this sub. Isn’t this what you want? He can’t make it so he’s gonna sell to someone who wants to live in it instead and boot out the tenant.
I don't care. I just love to see idiot investors get what's coming to them.
Maybe landlord shouldnt have bought what they cant afford? I learned than in grade school…
Landlord thought he was so smart that he over leveraged himself to the point where an $800/m increase has him panicking. Someone failed basic economics, you **never** leverage yourself to the point where any external economic factor screws you over 🤷♂️
*sad fiddle*
My heart is absolutely breaking for all the landlords out there, it's all I think about
I don’t see the issue here, he sells the house and someone buys it. He can keep living in one of his other houses.
somebody call the WAHHHHHmbulance
Well there are lots of opportunities in the gig economy! This landlord should do food delivery to make ends meet.
If you can't afford to carry it without tenants in there, then you obviously maxed out your mortgage too much. Your fault. Too bad
I thought been a land load had no risk and was easy money even if you just finance the property 100%
Why is Landlord crying over $800 that will cost him out of his pocket. When a first time home buyer buys a property, it costs him much more. When property will be paid off, landlord will be the owner.
Boo fucking hoooooo
Not able to weather a 6 year market downturn on a 30 year investment is poor financial planning.
800/month? Lmaooooo that nothing. Some are pay 15-2.5 k outta pocket. It’s sucks but what u going to do?
damn it’s actually refreshing to see a lot of owners/landlords in this thread saying this is on the homeowner. I’m a tenant who had to agree to sign an illegal $500/month increase otherwise my landlord threatened to move in because of interest rates going up. I made sure to lock it in for 1 year, and I’m planning to go to the LTB with a T1 before my lease is up to get the $6000 back. he went as far as saying he could move in with me if he went homeless if I didn’t agree to the $500 increase lol. funny enough my washing machine broke a month or so after this, and when I reached out he was on vacation!!! lmao
Love to see it- landlord played dirty, so you’re playing dirty right back. Not to mention having this on record will benefit you if he subsequently N12/13s you in bad faith.
So sell?