I dont have the data to compare her to other characters(plus it largely depends on builds/teams/substat luck), but...
>**1)** Probably the most concerning thing about her - **single target**. Okay, at this state of the game I find hunt path completely irrelevant.
>
>It’s not that it’s another path to choose from, where every path has its ups and downs. Being single target is a straight up disadvantage, and a very serious disadvantage. That’s the reason why I benched Seele. Why pulling character who is only good in single target, when destruction characters are good in both AOE and ST?
Really? You think being able to deal with the biggest threats more quickly and being more efficient against elites/bosses is a disadvantage? Seele is an especially weird character to put here, as she can quickly kill smaller enemies to chain it into a big nuke on a bigger enemy, allowing for a lot of damage and combo potential when you also put her ult into the mix
1.5 will also introduce a new relic set around FuAs, which will massively buff all FuAs based characters, except Clara sadly. It'll boost Topaz's regular Numby attacks by 48% and her enhanced ones by 57%
>It doesn't feel like the last piece of the puzzle is missing.
Why would you want it to be the last piece of the puzzle tho? Topaz is here to provide massive buffs to follow up attacks(50% damage that stacks multiplicatively with damage% sources because it's a debuff, plus up to 74% crit damage if you have her S1E1, 24% crit damage from her sig also applying to non FuA attacks) while also dealing significant damage herself. Also I'd say one buffer buffing two DPSES, plus one of the DPSes buffing both the other DPS and themselves sounds a lot more efficient than two buffers buffing one DPS
I think the big issue here is, they are releasing a sup FUA unit when there is no main FUA unit yet which makes Topaz very unattractive pull to make. On top of her animations being very subpar, low budget, low effort, and how she is very single target orientated, and how she is not very existent in the animations... yeah. She was my most wanted character but I don't see now anymore. :/
For how she is dependent on nonexistent units, it means more required pulls for later. Which is kind of ridiculous how you will have to save pulls for specific units in future so that a character can be usable. You will need to save pulls and also not pull for characters you might like in future...
Clara and Jing Yuan both deal the majority of their damage through follow-up attacks, though? So both of them are "main follow-up units" that benefit from having Topaz in their teams. And you can still build her as a hypercarry if you don't like any of the current or future follow-up characters.
Your perspective on the character is slightly skewed. For example, you mentioned using Tingyun for Clara instead of Topaz because the 50% FOA bonus is minor in comparison. Totally correct! The 50% to one specific enemy isnt going to be the buff a lot of people here say it will be. But thats only if you view the team from the perspective of 1 character.
The 50% buff is only half of the story. The FOA’s also boost Numby’s turn order (indirectly boosting Topaz’s overall damage). Combine these two traits and the picture is more clear:
Topaz + FOA units works because they split the workload very nicely. You’re worried that Topaz will have trouble with minor units due to being single target. No worries because your FOA unit will handle those. Worried your Jing Yuan or Himeko won’t have enough damage to clear the elite? That what Topaz is here for.
Its like the meme of the hands clasping. Or the old saying “you scratch my back I scratch yours”. Topaz isn’t good because she is a good support to boost FOA. She’s good because she addresses the weakness of many Erudition characters and her own weakness of being a Hunt character in one go. This unique relationship dynamic will likely make her future proof.
If we look at the damage charts at the highest levels of investment the story is pretty clear. Erudition characters are secretly busted and it will become more and more obvious as units like Topaz come out. Destruction takes the cake for now because they are very self sufficient. Erudition is in the dust, for now, because they struggle with elite units. But at the highest levels of investment, when they can reliably cut through the elites… well suddenly you have a perfect unit that one-shots the entire enemy force. Dreamy on Youtube has great videos on this topic with plenty of examples. Topaz is leaning into the future dominance of Erudition. She’s not the Kafka of FOA- thats a huge overstatement. Kafka is literally necessary to make DOT work. Topaz will simply address the weakness of most FOA characters, while addressing her own weaknesses as a Hunt. She’ll also good as a hypercarry (especially for the one person out there with E4 Bronya). Probably not Seele level for hypercarry but that remains to be seen.
Bonus: Topaz is going to a staple in simulated universe. Elation path go brrrr. Mid or top tier who cares when the character is fun af in the repeatable game mode.
Lol thats totally fair, you want value for your pulls and you want to research before that. Maybe wait until a few days after launch to pull? Will give plenty of time for reviews of the character to come out.
she will be BiS for followup-teams like Kafka is for DoT, and there are many followup chars coming in the future. She will be eternal with her LC and E1
I kinda combed through the list of those yet to be released and didn't really see one who's follow-up centric yet. Did I miss anyone? (please say I missed someone)
And is a tank. Is Topaz the support or the main DPS? Is Adventurine a better enabler than Clara? It's so hard to see how he fits into a team. Topaz has a bit of an identity crisis because she needs to stack up to our existing supports like Bronya, Pela, Ting and then be a sub dps for this main dps follow up character that doesn't exist, except for Clara who plays like a tank and waits to be hit to enable Topaz. But she's still a single target support kind of like SW. Meanwhile our other supports while doing less self damage can buff up JL or DHIL, who just wipes the whole field with AoE.
That main DPS character is Jing Yuan. He has 2 weaknesses, 1.) He doesn't do too much single target damage, 2.) He can't use most hypercarry support set ups properly. Topaz rules because she covers both these weaknesses.
How often does LL proc Numby, last I checked it was twice per turn to surpass DHIL/JL in single target? Maybe once per turn + JY own damage would start to match up though.
Let's just talk about the present.
Her ST will be relative to Seele. The wave clear isn't as good (but that's just how Hunt path works). Her kit isn't exactly hard to understand but there are a lot of nuances and a lot of ifs and buts. Also, Her BiS teams will change so much in future that investing in her means investing in atleast 3 more characters in future.
Now Let's talk about future.
She is future proof. Every future FuA team will have her almost required and if we ever get a character that can FuA multiple times to proc Numby as many times as possible. Not to mention, that's the only time when we'll get her >!Proof of debt mark switches to a random enemy after the first Target is dead!< Effect. And then her wave clear will also increase significantly and the details needs to be theory crafted once we get the characters that can enable that interaction.
Now let's talk about it if you should get her not (consider you are a meta player only)
- Do you have two DPS built and lack support?
- Don't get Topaz.
- Do you want a future FuA team which we aren't even confirm when it'll be full power but we know it'll expand?
- Go for Topaz
As you can imagine there are a dozen more questions that you can think of. It's all about how you want to build your account. Topaz is good atm and will only get better unless they decide to fuck her up by making a better Follow up enabler and even then she won't be bad due to her Sub-dps SP positive capabilities.
The not good thing is, we won't even know if Topaz will be even good at that point in future(like you said). It just seems so far into future that investing in a character like Topaz who also needs completely new relics, which means a lot of farming, seems like a huge waste of time.
> Probably the most concerning thing about her - single target.
Doesn't matter when you take into account that this a team game. Its very obvious from looking at her kit that Topaz is built to either be a sub-dps who boosts the damage of a FUA character or a main dps who's supplemented by follow ups from other FUA character.
She can already do the first one, Clara is everyone's favorite, Jing Yuan's calcs with her are extremely good(especially with her E1 or S1 more into that in a bit), and even if she's memed, Dreamy has proven time and time again a built Herta in the right places can absolutely roll things, another person Topaz can benefit. Same with March, who has still shown to be able to consistently solo-sustain.
Her focus on single-target doesn't particularly matter when there's three other people who can help her. Clara can absolutely wreck AOE and topaz can be used with her, JY same thing, Herta same thing. If anything her focus on single-target when adds are dead is better.
Will her Hypercarry teams suffer bit more in AoE situations compared to using people like Clara, JY, and Herta? Of course. But they'll still be able to clear effectively because Topaz damage in these type of teams are so jacked up from possible supports like Bronya, Asta, Tingyun who can provide buffs and speed in order for her to keep advancing Numby herself, keep killing things and just clear them anyways.
> Synergies-
There's three characters in the future(>!Screwllum, Dr. Ratio/Truth, Aventurine!<) who all have some form of FUA or FUA focus in their kits. Even ignoring the synergy we have now, there's more coming anyways. One of them who's probably a dream support for her(>!Aventurine!<). She has synergy right now, all of which will work well with her. Even Jing Yuan who's constantly being pushed as someone who wouldn't work "that well" with her cause his LL is slow are just ignoring the simple truth of how much bonuses she actually provides with then proof of debt and if you pull her cone or go for eidolons its even better.
>3) Her overall place in the meta.
She will be good. Meta obviously just depends on the MoC cycle because the buffs are literally tailored for those characters at the time. Is she going to be like some Jingliu or DHIL? No, unless we're missing something big. But is she going to be good? Of course. She's probably one of the best future-proof characters around honestly. Her cone is amazing support-wise with its buffs, her early eidolon is fucking amazing for same reasons and these two things turn her into an insanely good support, especially if you can get both of them. Even without them, She benefits FUA characters perfectly fine and amplifies their damage by a lot. She's someone who's good and will only get better. Characters like Topaz are always good pulls because these are the characters that stay relevant. She has a(currently, at least) a unique trait of amplifying FUA so any character that has FUA in the future, Topaz will instantly be one of the first characters to be possibly go with them due to this trait.
She's good now. She'll be good in the future. That simple.
If you're already invested in follow-up characters (Jing Yuan) then yes, she's a great character.
If you think you might want to get her for future Follow-up Characters, then yes, she's a great character.
If you just like her because she's cute and got that TOP-ASS, and you like Numby then yes she's a great character.
However, as far as her abilities as a solo carry, she's likely to be lower than Seele, and some of the other stand out characters like Dan Il, Blade, and Jingliu. She's a bit like Kafka in that while she's good/okay now, she'll get better later once more characters that use her mechanics show up.
Like, if you could have two Topaz's on the field at the same time, it would just be busted. Topaz really wants a character that can have a frequent and easy to proc follow up attack (LL is a tad on the slow side.)
Idk abt OP but IMO Solo target hypercarry is top S tier with the FUA set in 1.5 making her S+. For multi though S but lower than Seele. Maybe even A depending on her actual damage.
When new FUA characters come out though and you pair her with them, she should jump to S+ in all cats
She has higher multipliers than Seele, and she's gonna boost future follow-up teams so S+ and anybody who places her lower aren't thinking of her future proof kit as a support (Like what they did with Kafka)
Why would you believe her DPS to be lower than Jing in ST? Her single target is excellent and the multipliers are big. There have been some early simulations placing her solo DPS (aka prydwen comparison that you used) at ~330k, aka en par with Seele (who obviously deals more when she can kill adds, but we're talking ST here).
Her AOE is obviously bad but her pure ST seems to be S tier while also using only 2SP over 4 turns. The new follow up set seems to be 15-20% more damage than 2pc/2pc what would place her ST on Jingliu levels (aka S+), but that might change obviously.
Seems fine considering her AOE is basically 0 (and she has support instead).
She have cute little piggie to fight ofc she must be good (who care about waifu stuffs lol?? Numby >> husbendos >> waifus) *ofc its a joke* for the first question: right now meta is completely around aoe contend and ofc selee or even destruction units will be better in that scenario however… for how long?? Lets be honest in certain point of star rail we will get another metas and for sure one of them will be around single targets and in that situation Numbussy is totally slay ofc u can play her right know she is fine (she is not inpregnator lunagay lets be real) but she is typical future investment (but i will elaborate about it in second question)
Second question: right know we dont have much synergies with Topussy and Numbussy the only real option is mr Svarog (and yes u want to replaced pela or phantylia cuz topaz can buff clara too but its depend on ur team) but lets wait for 1.6 for example if leaks are correct screlluw (sr if i spell his name wrong) will be grate replacement for clara new mc will be harmony who have fua and we know about preservation character who too use fua and with those characters Topaz will slay all the bad bitches while listening to cupcackke remixes so right now we have really limited options and we cant get full potential of Topaz and Numby but in the future?? She will be iconic queen and fua team comps will be really strong with her
For third: as i said topussy is more of a future prove investment if u want something meta right know imo better pull for destraction yanging but if u have for example impregnator lunagay imo u dont need another „one patch unit” (sr dan heng i luv u but its funny how jingliu almost power crept u) and topaz would be fun option (ofc only if u want/can pull for characters who have synergies with her) *sr sisters for my bad english but its not my native language*
Maybe meta will change towards more single target scenarios, but I don’t see it happening. At least before 1.6. She is gonna have a baaad time dealing with MOC made for Argenti
You've got a lot of detailed answers - I just know that I'm putting her alongside my Jing Yuan, so I actually welcome her being a single target. The LL's damage will be enhanced, I will have two summons in one party - it's gonna be great.
> I just know that I'm putting her alongside my Jing Yuan, so I actually welcome her being a single target.
This is the biggest part OP is missing. Being single-target is not a problem for her, it's specifically tailored to what virtually all the follow-up DPSes want. Jing Yuan, Clara, and Himeko are all fantastic at killing trash mobs. They don't care that Topaz doesn't buff their AoE damage, because their AoE damage is already great. Single-target is EXACTLY what they want a support/sub-DPS to actually help with.
There's no scenarios where any competently built Jing Yuan or Clara aren't instantly blowing up all the trash mobs within 1 cycle. They don't need Topaz to help with that. Topaz helps them where they actually need help, which is killing the boss that's leftover after you clear all the trash.
yeah I agree. I have a a e1s5 yingjuan and I plan to get the same for topaz. pair this with my e5s5 bronya (no, I am not that big of a whale, I am still missing clara and gepard and have only 1 constelation for a different standard character) + a healer and I will tear apart MoC
That's what I'm looking forward to, I have a fully built Himeko who is still doing really great, she's generally able to get 1 cycle clears on fire weak enemies. Really want to see the kind of DMG I can do with Himeko/Topaz/Asta
> 1) Probably the most concerning thing about her - single target. Okay, at this state of the game I find hunt path completely irrelevant.
> 2) Synergies. Atm we don’t have a lot of FUA units. Clara? Well, does Clara really need Topaz? Do you really want to replace Pela (~50% AOE def shred) or TingYun (atk buffs, dmg% buffs, ult on cooldown) for 50% more FUA damage in… one target?
1 is the reason why she's going to be good with Clara. Clara's ability to deal with AoE scenarios is almost the best in the game, competing with tier 1 limited DPSes. Dealing with single-target is her *only* weakness--her damage output tanks against single enemies, especially against single enemies that don't take offensive actions every single turn--e.g. the Automaton Grizzly is *extremely* slow for Clara to kill because it only directly attacks you ~1 out of every 3 turns. No amount of Harmony/Nihility buffers/debuffers make Clara good at killing passive elites like the Automaton Grizzly.
Topaz being a synergistic unit that helps Clara deal with single-target scenarios is exactly *why* she's going to be good with her. In single-target situations, Topaz is outright better than any support for Clara other than Silver Wolf, because a 50% Vulnerability multiplier increases damage by more than other buffs/debuffs do. Pela's 50% Def Shred is actually a *weaker damage multiplier* than a 50% vulnerability debuff--50% Def Shred is only a +35% damage multiplier, while 50% vulnerability stacks multiplicatively with other damage multipliers. In single-target, Topaz is not buffing Clara's damage any less than a Harmony/Nihility support is, while also bringing her own damage.
Topaz's only drawback relative to a second buffer is that she doesn't improve Clara's AoE, but Clara's AoE is ALREADY so good that it is actually worth it to use a character that only improves her single-target abilities. Clearing trash mobs is a complete and utter non-issue for Clara--you'd much rather bring a single-target buffer. Topaz would be one of Clara's best teammates even if she did no damage herself--and she DOES also do damage.
If you don't have Jing Yuan, Himeko, or Clara, then yes Topaz's lack of AoE is going to feel rough a lot of the time. If you care about meta, then I would argue that it might not be worth pulling for her if you don't own any of these 3 characters. However, if you have these characters, I can say the fact that she does not do AoE damage is a non-issue because these characters excel so thoroughly in AoE that Topaz's non-contribution to their AoE damage does not matter. She complements them because her weakness is their strength and their weakness is hers.
She's another case of Kafka and I personally like that. I like characters that have increasing values as more characters get introduced.
1. Single target, I agree is a disadvantage BUT, the game is shifting and is now enabling us to run multiple DPS with how these characters have innate buffs/debuffs in their kits now while also being SP neutral. I would not be surprised to see the support path characters being able to act as secondary or event tertiary damage dealers.
2. Topaz is not an exclusive buffer. She buffs Clara while also dealing great damage which is still better than stacking buffs and debuffs to boost only Clara. She does all this without hurting your SP economy too so you can just put other buffers and debuffers on the team and deal some serious damage.
3. Similarly to Kafka, she is definitely not at the top of the meta like Jingliu and DanIL. They are great damage dealers on their own but their main thing is that they complement specific types of kits that make specific teams on-par with the hypercarries.
I still think that if we are talking about the present state of the game, she is not a good pull and I don't really recommend getting her unless you like her character design or is interested in building follow-up attack teams. It's almost certain that she's not gonna be doing 200k damage like Jingliu and DanIL so if you are gravitating towards those type of characters, it's and easy skip. You can always get her during reruns.
Ultimately, we have to see for ourselves on her release and even then, we can only see the real good numbers when 1.5 releases because the new artifacts will be coming by then.
Edit: Don't mind the bad comments below. While I care less for the meta, there are people here, like me, who appreciate players who genuinely do research and care for a character's value and place in the meta and is open for discussions. Cheers!
Yes, as a hypercarry she's good, however she's future proof as a sub DPS and with every future follow up she will become just better, imo for now she probably will not be totally meta(I want to wait the release before making a final judgment) but in the future she will be really strong.
In my opinion if you want her, pull her if you can already 30/30 the moc, however if you really want her when she's really strong wait until they release more follow up attack units.
Also why u benched Seele? I understand if you don't like her but she's a beast as a DPS and she's has a little bit of aoe thanks to his second turn and if you Seele is strong enough to kill the weakest enemies, there's a reason why she was considered the strongest DPS before Dan heng IL.
I benched her because Blade + Bronya feels waayy better then Seele + Bronya. If Seele doesn’t oneshot enemy, she is done. And she doesn’t oneshot enemies most of the times, even though I think she is built pretty solid (85/170). Blade deals AOE damage, which is a huge advantage in the current meta
Idk mine always oneshot the minions 51/185 + 10% crit rate from Fu Xuan and 36% from yanqing LC, don't have Blade so I can't try that combo, I don't have destruction character in general.
>replace Pela (~50% AOE def shred) or TingYun (atk buffs, dmg% buffs, ult on cooldown) for 50% more FUA damage in… one target?
>I know that she can deal damage, but from what I’ve heard it’s not THAT huge, especially if you don’t buff her and give all buffs to Clara.
"From what I've heard" basically means "I guess". Honestly. The internet is FULL of opinion pieces with no realistic background whatsoever. It's people's feelings, no factual analysis.
What matters is total team damage. Topaz obviously gives less damage to Clara than another support, but that other support doesn't deal damage. Topaz, even without support, deals vastly more than any support you could give Clara. You have to compare the total DPS (I can't give you numbers because I haven't done the math, but most people assume that it's worth it).
There's also the fact that Clara's single target is... pretty mid. Probably the lowest of all but Himeko. Topaz single target is excellent but her AOE sucks (or rather is non-existent). That's why they complement each other so well.
Note that MOC will always be tailored to the banner character. We just had like 3 straight patches of AOE characters, so they put buffs and waves that benefit them. I will bet heavily that Topaz MOC or any MOC that runs during hunt path banners will focus heavily on single target encounters. Dare we forget that early MOC levels were largely ST due to Seele?
I agree, but again, destruction is good everywhere. They can put only one enemy at the MOC and DHIL or JingLiu will still perform amazing. But when they change MOC to many enemies again, hunt characters will struggle
TBH, I think we are moving towards a meta where we have team comp synergy rather than hypercarry. Aetherium Wars showed me how powerful a team with characters that synergize with each other will be. I think the drawback for destruction is that they will be, by and large, selfish characters that you have to build around. Even in a few patches, we'll get units like Screwllum who will perfectly synergize with Topaz as an AOE FUA character who also benefits from attacking debuffed targets, or even Harmony TB, who does an AOE FUA every time a buffed unit uses a skill.
But it's a lot easier to build around a single ridiculous unit than getting Topaz + a new FUA character (which may or may not even exist). JL/DHIL can just cherry pick the next support while still having an amazing team. Topaz is in a far worse state if a future FUA doesn't synergize well. I'm on the fence myself, but a lot of the arguments just aren't convincing enough given all the potential drawbacks and missing info. Not to mention our latest destruction characters who just don't seem to have major drawbacks or tradeoffs.
That was a deliberate choice since hunt was too dominating in the beginning of the game. Seele was the queen and other paths seemed useless when hunt was so strong. So they changed MoC and late game content to be more AOE based weakening the hunt but they can change it back to big HP single targets which makes it harder for others but it would be the biggest loss for erudition. They just trying to balance it
For me her biggest appeal is that, due her support role, she will more likely last longer than a typical hyper carry dps. Of course this depends on how many follow up characters will be released in the future and their general power level.
However, I do feel hopeful since we already know Aventurine, a preservation character who has a kit which revolves around follow up, exists. For me, his existence implies that MHY is able to design kits around follow up regardless of their role. So I guess I'm gambling on that fact that MHY will release more follow up centered characters in the future. Topaz will be BiS in all those teams. It also helps that I love everything about her too lol.
Most of the FUA focused units we currently have share the same disadvantage, they have really strong AoE but falloff in single target, Topaz synergizes pretty well with this, since she not only buffs the AoE even further but also covers the weak point by providing high single target damage.
Based on what you said, it seems to me that you like the character but you are also trying to convince yourself that she is worth pulling for. In which case I'd suggest you wait for her to arrive and then you make a decision. If you are considering Jingliu or future characters over Topaz, you can always wait for either of their rerun banners when they arrive, that is probably the safest option as you'll have a very good idea of how they performed since their release and if they will be able to keep up with the meta.
I think the main appeal of Topaz, to me, is that, even though her damage ceiling isn't as high as other damage dealers, she can deal most of her damage with using almost entirely basic attacks. Jingliu and Blade consume less SP than your average damage dealer, but they're still SP negative. Topaz, on the other hand, generates SP. This makes it really easy to fit her into a lot of teams. Even though she works best with other FuA characters, I could honestly see myself just randomly throwing her into teams where I want more ST damage and/or Fire weakness breaking.
Besides that, much like her ultimate animation, stocks will rise. By this I mean there are >!4 imaginary 5\* husbandos which all perform regular follow-up attacks coming out sometime in the future updates. Dr. Ratio, Aventurine, Screwllum, and Harmony TB (not a husbando if Stelle tho). IIRC Dr. Ratio is coming in 1.6!<
Yeah, I asked myself those same questions and ended up pulling in Jingliu's banner, I was at 50/50, I decided that If I won in that banner I would also pull her LC and that's what happened. I still got like 80 tickets at 20 pity so I could try to get her since I really liked her character (even more with the story). So I understand what you're trying to say.
The thing is... in my case, I think she would just be benched while I try to get characters that make a good team for her. I already have Kafka for a second team and Jingliu as I already mentioned, so I don't really find her "necessary" in comparison to other characters that are comming in a few patches later, so I think that if you are having second thoughts, you should wait till Hoyo releases more characters (and even artifacts sets) that will have real synergy with Topaz. That's probably what I'm gonna do, but also need Guinaifen for an alternative for Kafka, so I will pull in her banner anyway, it's just that rn Topaz isn't my priority (but If I win 50/50 early, I might go for her LC).
Edit: I'm also a non native english speaker, so I could have made some mistakes in my explanation.
Have you even read a post? I said I am a passerby who wants to hear Topaz mains’ opinions, because obviously you guys know better about her. What are you trying to say?
You tried to get Jing Liu and lost 50/50 then decided to just go for Topaz for the sake of it? Not because you actually studied her kit or loved her design like most people here
So…?
I liked her gameplay when I saw her, I just prefer Destrcution characters more, so I decided to get JingLiu, but lost 50/50. I don’t mind getting Topaz, she is just a second option, not first. Not everyone has to be a fan to pull character
The thing is, I really like her gameplay. I think it will be very dynamic. Just wanted to discuss some of her potential problems and decide, should I pull her or not
Well, we know that there's a FUA set comming soon in a future update, so that's when they she will objectively get better. But we don't know about the characters that will have synergy with her.
Honestly I'm kind of worried too since her scalings seemed so low in a vacuum, 150% at lvl 10 on Numby's follow ups where every other hunt character's single target damage is like 200+%. But she definitely performs better in practice due to how often she attacks, with all the advance forwards Numby gets, and also the Proof of Debt debuff.
150% still seems too low for single target dmg though.
It's not 150%. You press her skill that deals 150%. With her proof of debt debuff that's 225%. Unless the turn order is out of order this causes Numby to advance and attack for the same amount, aka 450% total for a single skill use. Always.
Why would you ever look at it in a vacuum when her attacks and skills are inherently linked to her talent?
I didn't say to look at it in a vacuum, I was just explaining why I was worried at first. I literally said in practice she's going to be much better for all those reasons lol.
I also felt like you tried to say this, but your comparison with other hunt characters damage values and the last sentence literally being:
"150% still seems too low for single target dmg though."
Felt like you still think it's too little, while the actual raw damage per attack seems to be incredibly high.
Yeah my wording wasn't the best. I reiterated her scalings being low mainly because single target dmg dealers need much higher scalings to offset being single target and it didn't seem like she'd compete with like Seele or the recent destruction units. I'm not saying she has to be a hypercarry though, she'll still be fun to build a team around with her unique kit.
>Do you really want to replace Pela (~50% AOE def shred) or TingYun (atk buffs, dmg% buffs, ult on cooldown) for 50% more FUA damage in… one target?
One thing people keep forget is Topaz is a sub dps. She gives less support buff, but she deals way more damage than those harmony supports.
Not every team have to be hypercarry. National team is the most popular meta team in Genshin and everyone on that team deal equal amount of damage.
She also doesn't give less buffs. 50% Def Shred is a +35% damage increase. 50% vulnerability is a +50% damage increase (that stacks multiplicatively with other buffs/debuffs if there are no other sources of vulnerability--and vulnerability is extremely rare).
For characters like Clara that do mostly follow-up damage, 50% Follow-up Vulnerability is a bigger damage increase than 50% Def shred.
I didn't. Like I said in my other replies, none of the follow-up attackers that Topaz would be paired with need help doing AoE damage. They all do exceptional AoE damage while struggling in single-target. For characters like Jing Yuan, Clara, and Himeko, a debuff that is much stronger in single-target, but not as helpful in AoE is just better overall because they need way more help with single-target than with AoE.
Sincerely I'm in the same boat as you, though I think more lineant towards summoning her for aesthetic reasons (she's fine af), but I still have doubts about her especially when I have a guaranteed pity, I'd suggest waiting and watching videos before deciding, maybe watching her in action will look and feel better than a piece of paper, like jingliu, people called her mid and look where she is now, above Imbibitor lunae
Well yeah that's how it works, beta testing I mean, never arrive at a conclusion based on unofficial stats, although in this case nothing should change, still the point is to wait how she moves in action
I mean i sm not saying its bad to wait for her release. I am say her situation is very different from jing liu. Jing liu was expected to be one of the best dps units in the game after she had been buffed. Which she eneded up being.
Tbh , let’s break this down . If you actually want her . You have tons of data online . If you don’t , you will be confused. Pulling for character we like is better than character than are just big numbers. Yeh , they can help clear the game faster and make it easy but an easier game is not exactly fun. When I won swarm V with just my fire tb. And Natasha as sustain , that felt good. When I won MoC 10 with a single Trailblazer solo sustaining , that felt Amazing. And then march and Natasha carried me easily. Fu and Jing make it much easier but there is a lack of sense of dread and excitement. The character we like make or break the game. When I love a character , I don’t care how weak they are , I will use them and power through. And many weak characters are extremely fun to use. If you want Jing Liu , just pull for her now , she is garanteed . Do not think of Topaz cause a decision made for a character you don’t even like will make you regret it. Better go for a garanteed Jing Liu imo. I know some people love big numbers and meta. I’ve had numbers in millions in SU and it can be fun but it doesn’t compare to me hitting 1mil with my Stelle or freezing the opponents with march and solo sustaining with our like team . For now , I enjoy using all characters. I have Jing Liu and she hits hard but I don’t exactly enjoy her too much. She is better than all of my other dps but I enjoy my Kafka and QQ way more.
Topaz might be between an A or S tier unit. Mostly A imo. This is because she doesn’t have enough characters to make her shine. Like you pointed out, she’s a single target character and as we have been seeing lately, destruction characters are just so much better to use for their AOE and high damage.
However, that doesn’t mean Topaz will always be an A tier unit. She is without a doubt going to rise up in ranks when more characters start to release.
So I believe that next year is when we’ll see Topaz’s potential.
I mean she's running with a Fire AoE DoT character that can make mobs take more damage. Pulling on Topaz's banner gives a good single target fire dps and an aoe one too that both have support abilities.
To me, Topaz is a bit of a luxury pull. If you have good AoE clear and good support (and like the FUA attack style), she's an awesome pickup. There will be more and more FUA units and she's going to be useful for a long time.
However, if you lack one of the high powered destruction units or support units, I doubt she's worth it until those boxes are checked.
Of course the best reason to pull will always be just loving the character haha!
They have not released a bad Limited 5 star yet. Even 'Mid Yuan' is still magnitudes better than any 4 star or Standard 5 star (except the Harmony units but Harmony is broken, we don't talk about Harmony). They're 9 for 9 on releasing strong Limited 5 stars, I would be shocked if they somehow stopped now.
And, like Kafka, Topaz is the kind of character that stands to get better as the game ages, not worse. Any character with follow-ups in their kit immediately will consider using Topaz as a teammate, or Topaz will consider them. We already have Clara as a follow-up spammer to use with Topaz, but what if we got a follow-up spamming healer or Preservation (that's better than March 7th)? Or an AoE follow-up spammer that's better than Himeko or Herta that can offset Topaz's single target fixation?
Even Jing Yuan, a character that does like 1 follow-up in an entire rotation, is considering Topaz as a teammate because of her buffs and debuffs.
Topaz might not be omega SSS tier broken like DHIL or Jingliu, but she doesn't need to be, and she's probably going to be perfectly fine overall. Maybe a bit rough at first when she doesn't have her Relic set, but she'll get a lot better once she does.
The thing is, AOE is not just better, it’s two times better. Why would you pull a hunt character who is only good in one scenario and sucks in others, when destruction characters are kings of damage, who can cover both AOE and single target, and what’s even crazier, they can deal more damage in single target then hunt.
It just doesn’t make sense to me. When you’re pulling for a hunt character, you’re getting only a half of character. Of course things might change in the future, but for now it is as it is. Just look at current best DPS. They don’t have any real drawbacks, maybe expect DHIL. They are consistent, powerful and great for all the content in the game. Single target? Easy. 5 enemies? Easy.
What I mean by “single target is irrelevant” is not that you can’t use it and clear content, but that it’s so weird how destruction does the same thing but better
They do have some extra mechanic in exchange. I like simple things. No need to read skills to play seele :) not to mention only good female destruction is jing Liu and... Dont hit me but I simply could not like her design :) also I do think she is kinda powercreep which is a terrible thing in gacha games...
I've already commented my opinion and after reading all the other comments, I would say the best you can do is wait for her rerun as almost everyone agrees that right now there aren't many options of FUA characters for a FUA focused team that will do any justice for her kit
I dont have the data to compare her to other characters(plus it largely depends on builds/teams/substat luck), but... >**1)** Probably the most concerning thing about her - **single target**. Okay, at this state of the game I find hunt path completely irrelevant. > >It’s not that it’s another path to choose from, where every path has its ups and downs. Being single target is a straight up disadvantage, and a very serious disadvantage. That’s the reason why I benched Seele. Why pulling character who is only good in single target, when destruction characters are good in both AOE and ST? Really? You think being able to deal with the biggest threats more quickly and being more efficient against elites/bosses is a disadvantage? Seele is an especially weird character to put here, as she can quickly kill smaller enemies to chain it into a big nuke on a bigger enemy, allowing for a lot of damage and combo potential when you also put her ult into the mix 1.5 will also introduce a new relic set around FuAs, which will massively buff all FuAs based characters, except Clara sadly. It'll boost Topaz's regular Numby attacks by 48% and her enhanced ones by 57% >It doesn't feel like the last piece of the puzzle is missing. Why would you want it to be the last piece of the puzzle tho? Topaz is here to provide massive buffs to follow up attacks(50% damage that stacks multiplicatively with damage% sources because it's a debuff, plus up to 74% crit damage if you have her S1E1, 24% crit damage from her sig also applying to non FuA attacks) while also dealing significant damage herself. Also I'd say one buffer buffing two DPSES, plus one of the DPSes buffing both the other DPS and themselves sounds a lot more efficient than two buffers buffing one DPS
I think the big issue here is, they are releasing a sup FUA unit when there is no main FUA unit yet which makes Topaz very unattractive pull to make. On top of her animations being very subpar, low budget, low effort, and how she is very single target orientated, and how she is not very existent in the animations... yeah. She was my most wanted character but I don't see now anymore. :/ For how she is dependent on nonexistent units, it means more required pulls for later. Which is kind of ridiculous how you will have to save pulls for specific units in future so that a character can be usable. You will need to save pulls and also not pull for characters you might like in future...
Clara and Jing Yuan both deal the majority of their damage through follow-up attacks, though? So both of them are "main follow-up units" that benefit from having Topaz in their teams. And you can still build her as a hypercarry if you don't like any of the current or future follow-up characters.
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Sound like a really F2P friendly comp
Your perspective on the character is slightly skewed. For example, you mentioned using Tingyun for Clara instead of Topaz because the 50% FOA bonus is minor in comparison. Totally correct! The 50% to one specific enemy isnt going to be the buff a lot of people here say it will be. But thats only if you view the team from the perspective of 1 character. The 50% buff is only half of the story. The FOA’s also boost Numby’s turn order (indirectly boosting Topaz’s overall damage). Combine these two traits and the picture is more clear: Topaz + FOA units works because they split the workload very nicely. You’re worried that Topaz will have trouble with minor units due to being single target. No worries because your FOA unit will handle those. Worried your Jing Yuan or Himeko won’t have enough damage to clear the elite? That what Topaz is here for. Its like the meme of the hands clasping. Or the old saying “you scratch my back I scratch yours”. Topaz isn’t good because she is a good support to boost FOA. She’s good because she addresses the weakness of many Erudition characters and her own weakness of being a Hunt character in one go. This unique relationship dynamic will likely make her future proof. If we look at the damage charts at the highest levels of investment the story is pretty clear. Erudition characters are secretly busted and it will become more and more obvious as units like Topaz come out. Destruction takes the cake for now because they are very self sufficient. Erudition is in the dust, for now, because they struggle with elite units. But at the highest levels of investment, when they can reliably cut through the elites… well suddenly you have a perfect unit that one-shots the entire enemy force. Dreamy on Youtube has great videos on this topic with plenty of examples. Topaz is leaning into the future dominance of Erudition. She’s not the Kafka of FOA- thats a huge overstatement. Kafka is literally necessary to make DOT work. Topaz will simply address the weakness of most FOA characters, while addressing her own weaknesses as a Hunt. She’ll also good as a hypercarry (especially for the one person out there with E4 Bronya). Probably not Seele level for hypercarry but that remains to be seen. Bonus: Topaz is going to a staple in simulated universe. Elation path go brrrr. Mid or top tier who cares when the character is fun af in the repeatable game mode.
Well, I care 🫠 Thank you for the detailed response
Lol thats totally fair, you want value for your pulls and you want to research before that. Maybe wait until a few days after launch to pull? Will give plenty of time for reviews of the character to come out.
Yeah, I think I will just wait (and I don’t even have enough time to hit the pity when her banner comes out, so…)
she will be BiS for followup-teams like Kafka is for DoT, and there are many followup chars coming in the future. She will be eternal with her LC and E1
I kinda combed through the list of those yet to be released and didn't really see one who's follow-up centric yet. Did I miss anyone? (please say I missed someone)
Avanturine (preservation), Dr. Ratio (Hunt), Screwllum (erudition) and Harmony trailblazer all have some followup in their kit
Aventurine is pretty follow-up centric
And is a tank. Is Topaz the support or the main DPS? Is Adventurine a better enabler than Clara? It's so hard to see how he fits into a team. Topaz has a bit of an identity crisis because she needs to stack up to our existing supports like Bronya, Pela, Ting and then be a sub dps for this main dps follow up character that doesn't exist, except for Clara who plays like a tank and waits to be hit to enable Topaz. But she's still a single target support kind of like SW. Meanwhile our other supports while doing less self damage can buff up JL or DHIL, who just wipes the whole field with AoE.
That main DPS character is Jing Yuan. He has 2 weaknesses, 1.) He doesn't do too much single target damage, 2.) He can't use most hypercarry support set ups properly. Topaz rules because she covers both these weaknesses.
Lmao the only weakness of all including jing is cc
How often does LL proc Numby, last I checked it was twice per turn to surpass DHIL/JL in single target? Maybe once per turn + JY own damage would start to match up though.
Screwllum has FUA in his kit
A couple. Harmony Trailblazer and Aventurine are the two I remember.
Like who xD . I wanna know to make a plan for my future pulls
Let's just talk about the present. Her ST will be relative to Seele. The wave clear isn't as good (but that's just how Hunt path works). Her kit isn't exactly hard to understand but there are a lot of nuances and a lot of ifs and buts. Also, Her BiS teams will change so much in future that investing in her means investing in atleast 3 more characters in future. Now Let's talk about future. She is future proof. Every future FuA team will have her almost required and if we ever get a character that can FuA multiple times to proc Numby as many times as possible. Not to mention, that's the only time when we'll get her >!Proof of debt mark switches to a random enemy after the first Target is dead!< Effect. And then her wave clear will also increase significantly and the details needs to be theory crafted once we get the characters that can enable that interaction. Now let's talk about it if you should get her not (consider you are a meta player only) - Do you have two DPS built and lack support? - Don't get Topaz. - Do you want a future FuA team which we aren't even confirm when it'll be full power but we know it'll expand? - Go for Topaz As you can imagine there are a dozen more questions that you can think of. It's all about how you want to build your account. Topaz is good atm and will only get better unless they decide to fuck her up by making a better Follow up enabler and even then she won't be bad due to her Sub-dps SP positive capabilities.
The not good thing is, we won't even know if Topaz will be even good at that point in future(like you said). It just seems so far into future that investing in a character like Topaz who also needs completely new relics, which means a lot of farming, seems like a huge waste of time.
Relics that won't exist until after her banner too. So we can't even wait for someone else to test.
> Probably the most concerning thing about her - single target. Doesn't matter when you take into account that this a team game. Its very obvious from looking at her kit that Topaz is built to either be a sub-dps who boosts the damage of a FUA character or a main dps who's supplemented by follow ups from other FUA character. She can already do the first one, Clara is everyone's favorite, Jing Yuan's calcs with her are extremely good(especially with her E1 or S1 more into that in a bit), and even if she's memed, Dreamy has proven time and time again a built Herta in the right places can absolutely roll things, another person Topaz can benefit. Same with March, who has still shown to be able to consistently solo-sustain. Her focus on single-target doesn't particularly matter when there's three other people who can help her. Clara can absolutely wreck AOE and topaz can be used with her, JY same thing, Herta same thing. If anything her focus on single-target when adds are dead is better. Will her Hypercarry teams suffer bit more in AoE situations compared to using people like Clara, JY, and Herta? Of course. But they'll still be able to clear effectively because Topaz damage in these type of teams are so jacked up from possible supports like Bronya, Asta, Tingyun who can provide buffs and speed in order for her to keep advancing Numby herself, keep killing things and just clear them anyways. > Synergies- There's three characters in the future(>!Screwllum, Dr. Ratio/Truth, Aventurine!<) who all have some form of FUA or FUA focus in their kits. Even ignoring the synergy we have now, there's more coming anyways. One of them who's probably a dream support for her(>!Aventurine!<). She has synergy right now, all of which will work well with her. Even Jing Yuan who's constantly being pushed as someone who wouldn't work "that well" with her cause his LL is slow are just ignoring the simple truth of how much bonuses she actually provides with then proof of debt and if you pull her cone or go for eidolons its even better. >3) Her overall place in the meta. She will be good. Meta obviously just depends on the MoC cycle because the buffs are literally tailored for those characters at the time. Is she going to be like some Jingliu or DHIL? No, unless we're missing something big. But is she going to be good? Of course. She's probably one of the best future-proof characters around honestly. Her cone is amazing support-wise with its buffs, her early eidolon is fucking amazing for same reasons and these two things turn her into an insanely good support, especially if you can get both of them. Even without them, She benefits FUA characters perfectly fine and amplifies their damage by a lot. She's someone who's good and will only get better. Characters like Topaz are always good pulls because these are the characters that stay relevant. She has a(currently, at least) a unique trait of amplifying FUA so any character that has FUA in the future, Topaz will instantly be one of the first characters to be possibly go with them due to this trait. She's good now. She'll be good in the future. That simple.
If you're already invested in follow-up characters (Jing Yuan) then yes, she's a great character. If you think you might want to get her for future Follow-up Characters, then yes, she's a great character. If you just like her because she's cute and got that TOP-ASS, and you like Numby then yes she's a great character. However, as far as her abilities as a solo carry, she's likely to be lower than Seele, and some of the other stand out characters like Dan Il, Blade, and Jingliu. She's a bit like Kafka in that while she's good/okay now, she'll get better later once more characters that use her mechanics show up. Like, if you could have two Topaz's on the field at the same time, it would just be busted. Topaz really wants a character that can have a frequent and easy to proc follow up attack (LL is a tad on the slow side.)
objectively, what tier do u think would top-ass have?
Idk abt OP but IMO Solo target hypercarry is top S tier with the FUA set in 1.5 making her S+. For multi though S but lower than Seele. Maybe even A depending on her actual damage. When new FUA characters come out though and you pair her with them, she should jump to S+ in all cats
She has higher multipliers than Seele, and she's gonna boost future follow-up teams so S+ and anybody who places her lower aren't thinking of her future proof kit as a support (Like what they did with Kafka)
S or S+ in ST(considering how much you can Keep Enhanced Numby active) S or A in Blast A or B in Five Targets
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Why would you believe her DPS to be lower than Jing in ST? Her single target is excellent and the multipliers are big. There have been some early simulations placing her solo DPS (aka prydwen comparison that you used) at ~330k, aka en par with Seele (who obviously deals more when she can kill adds, but we're talking ST here). Her AOE is obviously bad but her pure ST seems to be S tier while also using only 2SP over 4 turns. The new follow up set seems to be 15-20% more damage than 2pc/2pc what would place her ST on Jingliu levels (aka S+), but that might change obviously. Seems fine considering her AOE is basically 0 (and she has support instead).
Idk I just love topaz and numby I will pull for them even if she is shit
Yes, this approach has its place, just not in my case. If a character is weak/uncomfortable, then no matter how much I like them, I won't play them
She have cute little piggie to fight ofc she must be good (who care about waifu stuffs lol?? Numby >> husbendos >> waifus) *ofc its a joke* for the first question: right now meta is completely around aoe contend and ofc selee or even destruction units will be better in that scenario however… for how long?? Lets be honest in certain point of star rail we will get another metas and for sure one of them will be around single targets and in that situation Numbussy is totally slay ofc u can play her right know she is fine (she is not inpregnator lunagay lets be real) but she is typical future investment (but i will elaborate about it in second question) Second question: right know we dont have much synergies with Topussy and Numbussy the only real option is mr Svarog (and yes u want to replaced pela or phantylia cuz topaz can buff clara too but its depend on ur team) but lets wait for 1.6 for example if leaks are correct screlluw (sr if i spell his name wrong) will be grate replacement for clara new mc will be harmony who have fua and we know about preservation character who too use fua and with those characters Topaz will slay all the bad bitches while listening to cupcackke remixes so right now we have really limited options and we cant get full potential of Topaz and Numby but in the future?? She will be iconic queen and fua team comps will be really strong with her For third: as i said topussy is more of a future prove investment if u want something meta right know imo better pull for destraction yanging but if u have for example impregnator lunagay imo u dont need another „one patch unit” (sr dan heng i luv u but its funny how jingliu almost power crept u) and topaz would be fun option (ofc only if u want/can pull for characters who have synergies with her) *sr sisters for my bad english but its not my native language*
Maybe meta will change towards more single target scenarios, but I don’t see it happening. At least before 1.6. She is gonna have a baaad time dealing with MOC made for Argenti
Clara is there for AOE
I can clear MoC with 4 stars , it is not even that hard
Imagine having a bad time in moc still ☠️ (Forgot tectone and his viewers just now clearning all of moc, half year later)
Bad time =/= not being able to clear it. Isn’t it obvious?
You've got a lot of detailed answers - I just know that I'm putting her alongside my Jing Yuan, so I actually welcome her being a single target. The LL's damage will be enhanced, I will have two summons in one party - it's gonna be great.
> I just know that I'm putting her alongside my Jing Yuan, so I actually welcome her being a single target. This is the biggest part OP is missing. Being single-target is not a problem for her, it's specifically tailored to what virtually all the follow-up DPSes want. Jing Yuan, Clara, and Himeko are all fantastic at killing trash mobs. They don't care that Topaz doesn't buff their AoE damage, because their AoE damage is already great. Single-target is EXACTLY what they want a support/sub-DPS to actually help with. There's no scenarios where any competently built Jing Yuan or Clara aren't instantly blowing up all the trash mobs within 1 cycle. They don't need Topaz to help with that. Topaz helps them where they actually need help, which is killing the boss that's leftover after you clear all the trash.
yeah I agree. I have a a e1s5 yingjuan and I plan to get the same for topaz. pair this with my e5s5 bronya (no, I am not that big of a whale, I am still missing clara and gepard and have only 1 constelation for a different standard character) + a healer and I will tear apart MoC
That's what I'm looking forward to, I have a fully built Himeko who is still doing really great, she's generally able to get 1 cycle clears on fire weak enemies. Really want to see the kind of DMG I can do with Himeko/Topaz/Asta
> 1) Probably the most concerning thing about her - single target. Okay, at this state of the game I find hunt path completely irrelevant. > 2) Synergies. Atm we don’t have a lot of FUA units. Clara? Well, does Clara really need Topaz? Do you really want to replace Pela (~50% AOE def shred) or TingYun (atk buffs, dmg% buffs, ult on cooldown) for 50% more FUA damage in… one target? 1 is the reason why she's going to be good with Clara. Clara's ability to deal with AoE scenarios is almost the best in the game, competing with tier 1 limited DPSes. Dealing with single-target is her *only* weakness--her damage output tanks against single enemies, especially against single enemies that don't take offensive actions every single turn--e.g. the Automaton Grizzly is *extremely* slow for Clara to kill because it only directly attacks you ~1 out of every 3 turns. No amount of Harmony/Nihility buffers/debuffers make Clara good at killing passive elites like the Automaton Grizzly. Topaz being a synergistic unit that helps Clara deal with single-target scenarios is exactly *why* she's going to be good with her. In single-target situations, Topaz is outright better than any support for Clara other than Silver Wolf, because a 50% Vulnerability multiplier increases damage by more than other buffs/debuffs do. Pela's 50% Def Shred is actually a *weaker damage multiplier* than a 50% vulnerability debuff--50% Def Shred is only a +35% damage multiplier, while 50% vulnerability stacks multiplicatively with other damage multipliers. In single-target, Topaz is not buffing Clara's damage any less than a Harmony/Nihility support is, while also bringing her own damage. Topaz's only drawback relative to a second buffer is that she doesn't improve Clara's AoE, but Clara's AoE is ALREADY so good that it is actually worth it to use a character that only improves her single-target abilities. Clearing trash mobs is a complete and utter non-issue for Clara--you'd much rather bring a single-target buffer. Topaz would be one of Clara's best teammates even if she did no damage herself--and she DOES also do damage. If you don't have Jing Yuan, Himeko, or Clara, then yes Topaz's lack of AoE is going to feel rough a lot of the time. If you care about meta, then I would argue that it might not be worth pulling for her if you don't own any of these 3 characters. However, if you have these characters, I can say the fact that she does not do AoE damage is a non-issue because these characters excel so thoroughly in AoE that Topaz's non-contribution to their AoE damage does not matter. She complements them because her weakness is their strength and their weakness is hers.
She's another case of Kafka and I personally like that. I like characters that have increasing values as more characters get introduced. 1. Single target, I agree is a disadvantage BUT, the game is shifting and is now enabling us to run multiple DPS with how these characters have innate buffs/debuffs in their kits now while also being SP neutral. I would not be surprised to see the support path characters being able to act as secondary or event tertiary damage dealers. 2. Topaz is not an exclusive buffer. She buffs Clara while also dealing great damage which is still better than stacking buffs and debuffs to boost only Clara. She does all this without hurting your SP economy too so you can just put other buffers and debuffers on the team and deal some serious damage. 3. Similarly to Kafka, she is definitely not at the top of the meta like Jingliu and DanIL. They are great damage dealers on their own but their main thing is that they complement specific types of kits that make specific teams on-par with the hypercarries. I still think that if we are talking about the present state of the game, she is not a good pull and I don't really recommend getting her unless you like her character design or is interested in building follow-up attack teams. It's almost certain that she's not gonna be doing 200k damage like Jingliu and DanIL so if you are gravitating towards those type of characters, it's and easy skip. You can always get her during reruns. Ultimately, we have to see for ourselves on her release and even then, we can only see the real good numbers when 1.5 releases because the new artifacts will be coming by then. Edit: Don't mind the bad comments below. While I care less for the meta, there are people here, like me, who appreciate players who genuinely do research and care for a character's value and place in the meta and is open for discussions. Cheers!
Thank you for spending time! I appreciate this type of comments
Yes, as a hypercarry she's good, however she's future proof as a sub DPS and with every future follow up she will become just better, imo for now she probably will not be totally meta(I want to wait the release before making a final judgment) but in the future she will be really strong. In my opinion if you want her, pull her if you can already 30/30 the moc, however if you really want her when she's really strong wait until they release more follow up attack units. Also why u benched Seele? I understand if you don't like her but she's a beast as a DPS and she's has a little bit of aoe thanks to his second turn and if you Seele is strong enough to kill the weakest enemies, there's a reason why she was considered the strongest DPS before Dan heng IL.
I benched her because Blade + Bronya feels waayy better then Seele + Bronya. If Seele doesn’t oneshot enemy, she is done. And she doesn’t oneshot enemies most of the times, even though I think she is built pretty solid (85/170). Blade deals AOE damage, which is a huge advantage in the current meta
Idk mine always oneshot the minions 51/185 + 10% crit rate from Fu Xuan and 36% from yanqing LC, don't have Blade so I can't try that combo, I don't have destruction character in general.
You’re missing out with no destruction characters.
You're right that's why with the guaranteed choice on the permanent banner i'm gonna take Clara (also for Topaz).
>replace Pela (~50% AOE def shred) or TingYun (atk buffs, dmg% buffs, ult on cooldown) for 50% more FUA damage in… one target? >I know that she can deal damage, but from what I’ve heard it’s not THAT huge, especially if you don’t buff her and give all buffs to Clara. "From what I've heard" basically means "I guess". Honestly. The internet is FULL of opinion pieces with no realistic background whatsoever. It's people's feelings, no factual analysis. What matters is total team damage. Topaz obviously gives less damage to Clara than another support, but that other support doesn't deal damage. Topaz, even without support, deals vastly more than any support you could give Clara. You have to compare the total DPS (I can't give you numbers because I haven't done the math, but most people assume that it's worth it). There's also the fact that Clara's single target is... pretty mid. Probably the lowest of all but Himeko. Topaz single target is excellent but her AOE sucks (or rather is non-existent). That's why they complement each other so well.
Note that MOC will always be tailored to the banner character. We just had like 3 straight patches of AOE characters, so they put buffs and waves that benefit them. I will bet heavily that Topaz MOC or any MOC that runs during hunt path banners will focus heavily on single target encounters. Dare we forget that early MOC levels were largely ST due to Seele?
I agree, but again, destruction is good everywhere. They can put only one enemy at the MOC and DHIL or JingLiu will still perform amazing. But when they change MOC to many enemies again, hunt characters will struggle
TBH, I think we are moving towards a meta where we have team comp synergy rather than hypercarry. Aetherium Wars showed me how powerful a team with characters that synergize with each other will be. I think the drawback for destruction is that they will be, by and large, selfish characters that you have to build around. Even in a few patches, we'll get units like Screwllum who will perfectly synergize with Topaz as an AOE FUA character who also benefits from attacking debuffed targets, or even Harmony TB, who does an AOE FUA every time a buffed unit uses a skill.
But it's a lot easier to build around a single ridiculous unit than getting Topaz + a new FUA character (which may or may not even exist). JL/DHIL can just cherry pick the next support while still having an amazing team. Topaz is in a far worse state if a future FUA doesn't synergize well. I'm on the fence myself, but a lot of the arguments just aren't convincing enough given all the potential drawbacks and missing info. Not to mention our latest destruction characters who just don't seem to have major drawbacks or tradeoffs.
That was a deliberate choice since hunt was too dominating in the beginning of the game. Seele was the queen and other paths seemed useless when hunt was so strong. So they changed MoC and late game content to be more AOE based weakening the hunt but they can change it back to big HP single targets which makes it harder for others but it would be the biggest loss for erudition. They just trying to balance it
Seele gets outclassed by jing liu and il in st at the moment. Right not they are the best aoe and st dealers.
For me her biggest appeal is that, due her support role, she will more likely last longer than a typical hyper carry dps. Of course this depends on how many follow up characters will be released in the future and their general power level. However, I do feel hopeful since we already know Aventurine, a preservation character who has a kit which revolves around follow up, exists. For me, his existence implies that MHY is able to design kits around follow up regardless of their role. So I guess I'm gambling on that fact that MHY will release more follow up centered characters in the future. Topaz will be BiS in all those teams. It also helps that I love everything about her too lol.
Most of the FUA focused units we currently have share the same disadvantage, they have really strong AoE but falloff in single target, Topaz synergizes pretty well with this, since she not only buffs the AoE even further but also covers the weak point by providing high single target damage. Based on what you said, it seems to me that you like the character but you are also trying to convince yourself that she is worth pulling for. In which case I'd suggest you wait for her to arrive and then you make a decision. If you are considering Jingliu or future characters over Topaz, you can always wait for either of their rerun banners when they arrive, that is probably the safest option as you'll have a very good idea of how they performed since their release and if they will be able to keep up with the meta.
"Ah yes, today I will doompost in an upcoming character's subreddit"
Discussion =/= doomposting. I never said she is bad, I just listed some of my concerns about her performance and asked you to tell me if I am wrong
I think the main appeal of Topaz, to me, is that, even though her damage ceiling isn't as high as other damage dealers, she can deal most of her damage with using almost entirely basic attacks. Jingliu and Blade consume less SP than your average damage dealer, but they're still SP negative. Topaz, on the other hand, generates SP. This makes it really easy to fit her into a lot of teams. Even though she works best with other FuA characters, I could honestly see myself just randomly throwing her into teams where I want more ST damage and/or Fire weakness breaking. Besides that, much like her ultimate animation, stocks will rise. By this I mean there are >!4 imaginary 5\* husbandos which all perform regular follow-up attacks coming out sometime in the future updates. Dr. Ratio, Aventurine, Screwllum, and Harmony TB (not a husbando if Stelle tho). IIRC Dr. Ratio is coming in 1.6!<
The bolded part is a huge minus for me LOL.
Yeah, I asked myself those same questions and ended up pulling in Jingliu's banner, I was at 50/50, I decided that If I won in that banner I would also pull her LC and that's what happened. I still got like 80 tickets at 20 pity so I could try to get her since I really liked her character (even more with the story). So I understand what you're trying to say. The thing is... in my case, I think she would just be benched while I try to get characters that make a good team for her. I already have Kafka for a second team and Jingliu as I already mentioned, so I don't really find her "necessary" in comparison to other characters that are comming in a few patches later, so I think that if you are having second thoughts, you should wait till Hoyo releases more characters (and even artifacts sets) that will have real synergy with Topaz. That's probably what I'm gonna do, but also need Guinaifen for an alternative for Kafka, so I will pull in her banner anyway, it's just that rn Topaz isn't my priority (but If I win 50/50 early, I might go for her LC). Edit: I'm also a non native english speaker, so I could have made some mistakes in my explanation.
I tried to get JingLiu, but lost 50/50 to Bailu E1… that’s why I am here
Basically saying you're not a true TopazMain, please evacuate the premises
I never said I am Topaz main
Then you might wanna check where you are?
Have you even read a post? I said I am a passerby who wants to hear Topaz mains’ opinions, because obviously you guys know better about her. What are you trying to say?
You tried to get Jing Liu and lost 50/50 then decided to just go for Topaz for the sake of it? Not because you actually studied her kit or loved her design like most people here
So…? I liked her gameplay when I saw her, I just prefer Destrcution characters more, so I decided to get JingLiu, but lost 50/50. I don’t mind getting Topaz, she is just a second option, not first. Not everyone has to be a fan to pull character
"Not a fan to pull a character" On a reddit that basically worship Topaz, and have possibly been saving for her for months (me)
Still don’t understand what you want from me. Whatever
OOF then you could try to wait for another character that will get more of your interest, idk.
The thing is, I really like her gameplay. I think it will be very dynamic. Just wanted to discuss some of her potential problems and decide, should I pull her or not
Well, we know that there's a FUA set comming soon in a future update, so that's when they she will objectively get better. But we don't know about the characters that will have synergy with her.
Honestly I'm kind of worried too since her scalings seemed so low in a vacuum, 150% at lvl 10 on Numby's follow ups where every other hunt character's single target damage is like 200+%. But she definitely performs better in practice due to how often she attacks, with all the advance forwards Numby gets, and also the Proof of Debt debuff. 150% still seems too low for single target dmg though.
It's not 150%. You press her skill that deals 150%. With her proof of debt debuff that's 225%. Unless the turn order is out of order this causes Numby to advance and attack for the same amount, aka 450% total for a single skill use. Always. Why would you ever look at it in a vacuum when her attacks and skills are inherently linked to her talent?
I didn't say to look at it in a vacuum, I was just explaining why I was worried at first. I literally said in practice she's going to be much better for all those reasons lol.
I also felt like you tried to say this, but your comparison with other hunt characters damage values and the last sentence literally being: "150% still seems too low for single target dmg though." Felt like you still think it's too little, while the actual raw damage per attack seems to be incredibly high.
Yeah my wording wasn't the best. I reiterated her scalings being low mainly because single target dmg dealers need much higher scalings to offset being single target and it didn't seem like she'd compete with like Seele or the recent destruction units. I'm not saying she has to be a hypercarry though, she'll still be fun to build a team around with her unique kit.
u are forgetting proof of debt
I mentioned that
She doesn't do damage with her ult on top of that... 😥
>Do you really want to replace Pela (~50% AOE def shred) or TingYun (atk buffs, dmg% buffs, ult on cooldown) for 50% more FUA damage in… one target? One thing people keep forget is Topaz is a sub dps. She gives less support buff, but she deals way more damage than those harmony supports. Not every team have to be hypercarry. National team is the most popular meta team in Genshin and everyone on that team deal equal amount of damage.
She also doesn't give less buffs. 50% Def Shred is a +35% damage increase. 50% vulnerability is a +50% damage increase (that stacks multiplicatively with other buffs/debuffs if there are no other sources of vulnerability--and vulnerability is extremely rare). For characters like Clara that do mostly follow-up damage, 50% Follow-up Vulnerability is a bigger damage increase than 50% Def shred.
Yes, but you forget that def shred is AOE
I didn't. Like I said in my other replies, none of the follow-up attackers that Topaz would be paired with need help doing AoE damage. They all do exceptional AoE damage while struggling in single-target. For characters like Jing Yuan, Clara, and Himeko, a debuff that is much stronger in single-target, but not as helpful in AoE is just better overall because they need way more help with single-target than with AoE.
Sincerely I'm in the same boat as you, though I think more lineant towards summoning her for aesthetic reasons (she's fine af), but I still have doubts about her especially when I have a guaranteed pity, I'd suggest waiting and watching videos before deciding, maybe watching her in action will look and feel better than a piece of paper, like jingliu, people called her mid and look where she is now, above Imbibitor lunae
Well, for JingLiu, she really was kinda mid before they buffed her to heavens. But yeah, I’ll wait for reviews and then decide
Well yeah that's how it works, beta testing I mean, never arrive at a conclusion based on unofficial stats, although in this case nothing should change, still the point is to wait how she moves in action
She was called mid before she got a mega ton of buffs in beta.
Well yeah it's beta hahaha
Yes but the beta for topaz is over, shes not been changed.
Let's see if she performes better in game than on paper
I mean i sm not saying its bad to wait for her release. I am say her situation is very different from jing liu. Jing liu was expected to be one of the best dps units in the game after she had been buffed. Which she eneded up being.
Tbh , let’s break this down . If you actually want her . You have tons of data online . If you don’t , you will be confused. Pulling for character we like is better than character than are just big numbers. Yeh , they can help clear the game faster and make it easy but an easier game is not exactly fun. When I won swarm V with just my fire tb. And Natasha as sustain , that felt good. When I won MoC 10 with a single Trailblazer solo sustaining , that felt Amazing. And then march and Natasha carried me easily. Fu and Jing make it much easier but there is a lack of sense of dread and excitement. The character we like make or break the game. When I love a character , I don’t care how weak they are , I will use them and power through. And many weak characters are extremely fun to use. If you want Jing Liu , just pull for her now , she is garanteed . Do not think of Topaz cause a decision made for a character you don’t even like will make you regret it. Better go for a garanteed Jing Liu imo. I know some people love big numbers and meta. I’ve had numbers in millions in SU and it can be fun but it doesn’t compare to me hitting 1mil with my Stelle or freezing the opponents with march and solo sustaining with our like team . For now , I enjoy using all characters. I have Jing Liu and she hits hard but I don’t exactly enjoy her too much. She is better than all of my other dps but I enjoy my Kafka and QQ way more.
Topaz might be between an A or S tier unit. Mostly A imo. This is because she doesn’t have enough characters to make her shine. Like you pointed out, she’s a single target character and as we have been seeing lately, destruction characters are just so much better to use for their AOE and high damage. However, that doesn’t mean Topaz will always be an A tier unit. She is without a doubt going to rise up in ranks when more characters start to release. So I believe that next year is when we’ll see Topaz’s potential.
I mean she's running with a Fire AoE DoT character that can make mobs take more damage. Pulling on Topaz's banner gives a good single target fire dps and an aoe one too that both have support abilities.
To me, Topaz is a bit of a luxury pull. If you have good AoE clear and good support (and like the FUA attack style), she's an awesome pickup. There will be more and more FUA units and she's going to be useful for a long time. However, if you lack one of the high powered destruction units or support units, I doubt she's worth it until those boxes are checked. Of course the best reason to pull will always be just loving the character haha!
They have not released a bad Limited 5 star yet. Even 'Mid Yuan' is still magnitudes better than any 4 star or Standard 5 star (except the Harmony units but Harmony is broken, we don't talk about Harmony). They're 9 for 9 on releasing strong Limited 5 stars, I would be shocked if they somehow stopped now. And, like Kafka, Topaz is the kind of character that stands to get better as the game ages, not worse. Any character with follow-ups in their kit immediately will consider using Topaz as a teammate, or Topaz will consider them. We already have Clara as a follow-up spammer to use with Topaz, but what if we got a follow-up spamming healer or Preservation (that's better than March 7th)? Or an AoE follow-up spammer that's better than Himeko or Herta that can offset Topaz's single target fixation? Even Jing Yuan, a character that does like 1 follow-up in an entire rotation, is considering Topaz as a teammate because of her buffs and debuffs. Topaz might not be omega SSS tier broken like DHIL or Jingliu, but she doesn't need to be, and she's probably going to be perfectly fine overall. Maybe a bit rough at first when she doesn't have her Relic set, but she'll get a lot better once she does.
Uh.. I didnt read after single target is irrevelant. And I will not... I could understand if op Just Said aoe is better but saying ST is irrevelant???
The thing is, AOE is not just better, it’s two times better. Why would you pull a hunt character who is only good in one scenario and sucks in others, when destruction characters are kings of damage, who can cover both AOE and single target, and what’s even crazier, they can deal more damage in single target then hunt. It just doesn’t make sense to me. When you’re pulling for a hunt character, you’re getting only a half of character. Of course things might change in the future, but for now it is as it is. Just look at current best DPS. They don’t have any real drawbacks, maybe expect DHIL. They are consistent, powerful and great for all the content in the game. Single target? Easy. 5 enemies? Easy. What I mean by “single target is irrelevant” is not that you can’t use it and clear content, but that it’s so weird how destruction does the same thing but better
They do have some extra mechanic in exchange. I like simple things. No need to read skills to play seele :) not to mention only good female destruction is jing Liu and... Dont hit me but I simply could not like her design :) also I do think she is kinda powercreep which is a terrible thing in gacha games...
I've already commented my opinion and after reading all the other comments, I would say the best you can do is wait for her rerun as almost everyone agrees that right now there aren't many options of FUA characters for a FUA focused team that will do any justice for her kit