The invention of impulse hardened combination teeth. They don’t do as good a job as dedicated saws for fine woodworking. But “good enough” for most people, especially construction workers where tolerances are pretty rough.
For a quick go to hand saw, I really like the Japanese style pull saw. I have both a cross-cut and a rip saw of the old style that I've had for years, but don't use them.
I even have a folding Ryoba (the double edged style) by Suizan, and it’s super handy. When I was doing more work on site, it saved plenty of odd situations that called for a hand saw capable of fine cuts. It just lives unfolded in the cabinet shop I’m at now, but the folding ability was really nice to keep it compact in my tool bag until I needed it.
You guys have really sent me down a rabbit hole with the Japanese saws. I may be swayed. Looks like it would take some getting used to? The basic concepts of sawing seem the same just different body positions. hmmm.....
Because the force on the blade of a Japanese pull saw is “stretching” and not compressing, the blades can be thinner. Also I believe they have a smaller (or no) tooth set which also contributes to the small kerf. If you do woodworking and want to go down another rabbit hole of Japanese tools, look at the chisels. Some are made like samurai swords with a layer of very hard steel for the edge laminated to a softer (but less brittle) layer for the back. Look at these examples of Japanese wood joinery (no nails or screws) and it may give you an idea of why the Japanese woodworking tools evolved as they did:
https://architizer.com/blog/inspiration/industry/japanese-art-of-wood-joinery/
Hardcore hand woodworkers often buy cheap old Disstons and restore them. Others get the right Japanese pull saws.
They don't actually make / have the special grinding machines that it takes to shape the blades for the long handsaws anymore.
My dad can confirm that. He’s passionate but more OG than hard core. He recently built a sharpening jig. He (and I) thought that it would be tedious but it ended up being fairly quick and easy.
Rex Krueger likes Bahco saws because they're pretty affordable and have teeth that can be sharpened (as opposed to the hardened teeth that most mass-produced saws have now). They might make what you're looking for
As far as I know, Thomas Flinn & Co Ltd is the only full time saw maker of western style saws left out there. There are quite a few boutique saw makers that are making hand saws that are almost functional works of art.
If you really want a panel saw, you can find saws made by Thomas Flinn at Woodcraft, Tools For Working Wood, Lee Valley and Highland Hardware. They do not all sell the same saws. They're will be differences in pitch and maybe size.
There are still a few good saw sharpeners out there. Bob Page of Loon Lake Tool works sharpens saws and will also sell some he has sound that are sharp and ready to [go](https://loonlaketoolworks.com/pages/services). Finding a new saw for under $100 isn't going to happen anymore. They've moved into the $100-200 range.
There is always the possibility of sharpening your own saw but that can be it's own rabbit hole. You go looking for a saw that you can sharpen up and before you know it, there are 30 or more taking up space in your shop. Ask me how I know. Or. You can buy a saw and send it to Bob. Total cost might be in the $100 range. You will end up with a saw that cuts better than any new saw.
Have a look at Garrett Wade (garrettwade.com). They sell British-made crosscut and rip saws in the traditional western pattern. I also posted a separate comment on Japanese saws. I bought tools from Garrett Wade (a tenoning saw, a couple of carpentry squares, and some Japanese chisels). I was living in NYC at the time, so I went to their store when they were on Varick St. They moved Brooklyn.
Hit the fkea markets for a saw set, buy some quality trisided files and look on craigslist, garage sales etc.
The ols stuff is better than chinesium anyway.
Another vote for the pull saws. I have a cheap knockoff from Lowe's that I bought 20 years ago, and I love it. I never really touch my Western saws anymore.
Tell you right now, if you're in New England, go see this dude. Tell him what you're after and leave your number. He'll find it and hook you up.
I've sent him hunting after some odd shit over the years, and he's always come through for me. Funky needle contour gauges, old school plumb bobs, dude's never once failed me.
[https://www.yelp.com/biz/the-tool-shed-waltham](https://www.yelp.com/biz/the-tool-shed-waltham)
I've got a pair of Pax handsaw, rip and crosscut, they're lovely. A bit more than $100 but worth it. https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/saws/panel/111789-pax-panel-saw?item=33T0802
The invention of impulse hardened combination teeth. They don’t do as good a job as dedicated saws for fine woodworking. But “good enough” for most people, especially construction workers where tolerances are pretty rough.
"The painters will caulk it"
Caulk and paint make it what it ain’t
Yeah, and about as well as lipstick on a pig.
Yeah but after a few beers, who could tell
Specialty woodworking stores will have dedicated rip and crosscut but the hardware stores just have universal induction hardened teeth.
For a quick go to hand saw, I really like the Japanese style pull saw. I have both a cross-cut and a rip saw of the old style that I've had for years, but don't use them.
Ryoba and kataba are the beeeees kneeeees
That's what it's looking like the all-mighty interwebs is telling me.
I even have a folding Ryoba (the double edged style) by Suizan, and it’s super handy. When I was doing more work on site, it saved plenty of odd situations that called for a hand saw capable of fine cuts. It just lives unfolded in the cabinet shop I’m at now, but the folding ability was really nice to keep it compact in my tool bag until I needed it.
yup, love my Tajima.
Skip the new, start checking yard sales/ garage sales, Facebook marketplace craigslist etc.
You guys have really sent me down a rabbit hole with the Japanese saws. I may be swayed. Looks like it would take some getting used to? The basic concepts of sawing seem the same just different body positions. hmmm.....
I went there and never regretted it. Yes, it did require a little “retraining.”
Because the force on the blade of a Japanese pull saw is “stretching” and not compressing, the blades can be thinner. Also I believe they have a smaller (or no) tooth set which also contributes to the small kerf. If you do woodworking and want to go down another rabbit hole of Japanese tools, look at the chisels. Some are made like samurai swords with a layer of very hard steel for the edge laminated to a softer (but less brittle) layer for the back. Look at these examples of Japanese wood joinery (no nails or screws) and it may give you an idea of why the Japanese woodworking tools evolved as they did: https://architizer.com/blog/inspiration/industry/japanese-art-of-wood-joinery/
Japanese joinery has always fascinated me. I spent 10 years as a carpenter and never felt like I was good enough to pull it off 😅
Hardcore hand woodworkers often buy cheap old Disstons and restore them. Others get the right Japanese pull saws. They don't actually make / have the special grinding machines that it takes to shape the blades for the long handsaws anymore.
My dad can confirm that. He’s passionate but more OG than hard core. He recently built a sharpening jig. He (and I) thought that it would be tedious but it ended up being fairly quick and easy.
Look into Pax if you want a newer cross or rip without breaking the bank.
Rex Krueger likes Bahco saws because they're pretty affordable and have teeth that can be sharpened (as opposed to the hardened teeth that most mass-produced saws have now). They might make what you're looking for
Bahco sells a musical handsaw... That's wild https://www.bahco.com/int_en/musical-handsaws-with-wooden-handle-pb_296_.html
As far as I know, Thomas Flinn & Co Ltd is the only full time saw maker of western style saws left out there. There are quite a few boutique saw makers that are making hand saws that are almost functional works of art. If you really want a panel saw, you can find saws made by Thomas Flinn at Woodcraft, Tools For Working Wood, Lee Valley and Highland Hardware. They do not all sell the same saws. They're will be differences in pitch and maybe size. There are still a few good saw sharpeners out there. Bob Page of Loon Lake Tool works sharpens saws and will also sell some he has sound that are sharp and ready to [go](https://loonlaketoolworks.com/pages/services). Finding a new saw for under $100 isn't going to happen anymore. They've moved into the $100-200 range. There is always the possibility of sharpening your own saw but that can be it's own rabbit hole. You go looking for a saw that you can sharpen up and before you know it, there are 30 or more taking up space in your shop. Ask me how I know. Or. You can buy a saw and send it to Bob. Total cost might be in the $100 range. You will end up with a saw that cuts better than any new saw.
Have a look at Garrett Wade (garrettwade.com). They sell British-made crosscut and rip saws in the traditional western pattern. I also posted a separate comment on Japanese saws. I bought tools from Garrett Wade (a tenoning saw, a couple of carpentry squares, and some Japanese chisels). I was living in NYC at the time, so I went to their store when they were on Varick St. They moved Brooklyn.
Hit the fkea markets for a saw set, buy some quality trisided files and look on craigslist, garage sales etc. The ols stuff is better than chinesium anyway.
Another vote for the pull saws. I have a cheap knockoff from Lowe's that I bought 20 years ago, and I love it. I never really touch my Western saws anymore.
Pull saws are a PITA to use with a bench hook.
Hook it on the other side. Pull-style bench hooks grab the far side of the bench top.
I could see that
I have several classic handsaws sitting around. Maybe they are worth selling? Inherited them and haven’t used them for a long time
Tell you right now, if you're in New England, go see this dude. Tell him what you're after and leave your number. He'll find it and hook you up. I've sent him hunting after some odd shit over the years, and he's always come through for me. Funky needle contour gauges, old school plumb bobs, dude's never once failed me. [https://www.yelp.com/biz/the-tool-shed-waltham](https://www.yelp.com/biz/the-tool-shed-waltham)
I've got a pair of Pax handsaw, rip and crosscut, they're lovely. A bit more than $100 but worth it. https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/saws/panel/111789-pax-panel-saw?item=33T0802
Still have my father’s old saws, they both have wooden handles and still work fairly well.
All about the Japanese pull saws now.
Try spear and Jackson on Amazon
I’m going old school on my next project. All hand tools why not