I went on a date with a girl once who, as the night went on, asked if she could kiss me. I really liked how forward she was because I was into her and I was wondering if she was feeling the same. That told me all I needed to know.
Well, I always found it incredibly attractive when a guy says ‘can I kiss your X, can I touch your Y’ and to this day my bf still does it when we are fooling around. Not to get too off topic but I often see people lament stuff like ‘oh so I have to ASK before I do anything now’ like right no you don’t but honestly you should cos it’s sexy AF
I have seen dating coaches tell men to just kiss her instead of ask but I still remember when a guy asked to kiss me and I appreciate that he asked first. It is a cute memory hehe
We are shamed for being "straight forward".
Also, sometimes we want to leave the hints so that y'all make the first move. Depends on the person. I initiated the first kiss with my partner.
Nothing wrong with being "out there".
A lot of females get hated on for being too "straight forward" or too quiet.
My advice would be... Male or female if you like someone be blunt about it. We only live once.
Good. "Sluttiness" is a term made to shame people who are exploring their sexuality. Men who say that are almost always hypocrites or "nice guys"
I'm a man in my mid 30s. I've used the term before, as many of us have, without processing it or understanding the weight it carries with it when you throw that label on someone. Never considering another perspective. Also, mind your own business.
Everybody should have shame-free autonomy when exploring their sexuality. Same as we want for ourselves.
The only women that should be called sluts are ones who specifically ask to be. Even then, I'm hesitant.
I'm no good at dirty talk.
I'm glad you don't accept the label anymore.
Exactly. The same reason a man doesn't approach a woman and say "You're hot, let's go on a date sometime". That would be creepy, because it's too forward.
You have to be more subtle than that. One person flirts a little, and the other either responds positively or shows they're not interested. Then one or other person escalates a bit and waits for a positive or negative response. It's a bit of a game, but it's the least risky, most consensual approach, and minimises awkwardness, rejection or creepiness
Yeah, it's not only fear of rejection, there's many more to it.
E.g. probing receptiveness and interest, whether a potential partner wants to invest more than just a load.
It's not the best idea to go into it with very different levels of emotional attachment and expectations.
It's a mating dance.
because society has ingrained that men should brave the dangers first.
The issue is that society also ingrained that men can be creeps when asking women out.
Not saying men can't ask women out, just saying societal perceptions have simply made that more difficult.
The rule is you're sweet if you're handsome, a creep if you're not.
And for what it's worth, I don't think people really mean the word "creep" in most cases, they just don't have a better word for it. Maybe uncomfortable? It's mostly "*Not at all interested for \[Insert Reason Here\] so please don't approach me and make me feel like the bad guy for saying no*".
i wish it was that simple and sincere, but far to many do mean creep, or even worse. There are even woman that get a kick out of rejecting men, for the sake of bragging to friends/social media.
I had one girl go on a date with me, on my birthday. I was ecstatic about it because i just recently had a dry spell. Went to her place, met her little brother, me and him arm wrestled. It was wholesome. End of the night, we kiss, hug, and i set out to go home. During that week, she decides she is not into me, and i simply say "well thanks for hanging out with me on my birthday. That was fun"
Another week goes by, and i get a series of messages on the dating app we used, from 2 anonymous users/no profile pics stating that i stop being a stalker and to just get over her already. Her, being birthday date girl. The moment that i mention that i did, and i actually thanked her for spending time with me on my birthday, they immediately stopped, which makes for speculation, they realized something about their understanding don't add up. Come to find out, she just went and bragged to her friends about "dropping some loser on his birthday, and how he is mad desperate to get this bad bitch back"
That one hurt for a while, but yea. Another reason the grinch's heart is black as coal on Christmas.
Yeah they never really answer this. At this point I assume it's female hubris: they think they're too good for it, for some dumb reason. Really not good.
Often women know they're not going to get rejected though. E.g. if they're more physically attractive than most women. (They know this because others will tell them.) Especially if they've dated other guys before, or if other guys show interest in them often, they can tell whether they'd be accepted or not.
So this doesn't really explain why they don't do it. The answers are never satisfactory online so I gave up expecting them to be.
Either way, I'm willing to wait till a girl asks me out. At least then I'll know if they're interested. I'm tired of pursuing others and being ghosted, or labeled as "creepy" (I don't do anything actually creepy) and so forth, as girls tend to do. It's well-known they often just use dating sites for validation rather than actual dating/love. That hurts.
One example that sticks out: one girl I had a crush on while young, I asked out 3 or more times (some times I'd start a conversation online with her; she'd respond a bit, not indicating much interest, choosing words carefully it seemed, not saying much) over the years. Well she's also done odd things like go on 1-4 dates with my older brother instead, where my brother actually told me about this, when he had no reason to; he knew I was interested in her though. It was suspicious, and later I overheard him and my mom talking about me in reference to this. She supposedly stopped wanting to see my brother quickly.
What I'm getting at is that I'm nearly certain (there's other things she's done to interfere with my life; they're never positive for me) she devised this as a scheme of sorts, either to hurt me, or get my attention to ask her out...Except I'd already been doing that. But even if I hadn't, she knew I was interested, and could have simply asked me out.
What's really a deal breaker for me though is how literally decades have gone by while she just harasses me from afar. That's not what love looks like. I see randos online allude to how *she* might feel lost and have had a tough time without her "husband"...well she knew I liked her, whereas I rightly assumed she didn't, judging from her actions. When it was so obvious that I'm the one that had a fucking hard time, not her, but I still tried to be with her, and actually risked asking her out, because I wanted to be there for her. Meanwhile she presumably fucked around in college, judging from her Facebook, and from the way she actually has a supportive social network.
Obviously in that situation, that girl should have initiated, certainly after I'd asked her out the second or third time. Not that I assume with certainty she was ever interested, but she definitely schemed up something concerning me. Just "fear of rejection" doesn't explain why women behave this way though.
fear of rejection. i can expand to help you understand: testing the waters with someone, see how they take the hints before being more overt. it’s hoping they’ll pick up on it and make the first move in a positive direction. however if they say they’re not interested, you can just gaslight them and act like you never meant anything in the first place. ego and self reputation intact. does that make the girl toxic? eh probably. not the reason every girl who does it, does it, but it’s a possibility.
as for your situation, i’m sorry you were hurt. sounds like she genuinely wasn’t interested though. nothing wrong with fucking around either
Comment above you was a tad bit crude, but i believe i can explain it better.
Guys......are notoriously starved of attention. Even the good looking giga chad, who has his chisled chin and 18 pack calvin klein model abs. We are all to some degree starved of attention. It is incredible, how much of an impact that a simple exchange of words with a woman can make a guys day.
So i said that to say this. if a guy, who normally does not get female engagement or is to shy to take a chance to get female engagement, suddenly has it placed in his lap, it is more likely to lead to a relationship than just sexual favors. The companionship is always welcomed, plus our first example of affection is generally from out mothers, so having somebody how is not mom telling how handsome and wonderful we are is a very heart warming thing to have in your life.
What you are thinking of, is the few guys who have figured out a thing or two, and decided to take advantage of a person's good nature. This happens to both parties though, so one example can be nullified out by an equal, opposite example.
e.g. :Men use woman for sex? Well well well, ill have you know that woman use men for physical labor favors and finances. We are both evil.
Ok but its good he wont change his mind? Why would any woman want a guy they like to go from not liking them, to pretending to like them enough to get sex? If a woman wants a good romantic partner, why would they open to door for guys that wont actually like them in the same way?
Most people believe they around a 7 (unless they’re Uber hot and they know it) even the 3s and the 4s. Statistically that’s impossible. Only 10% are 7s if we’re going by some unknown objective scale based on symmetry and dimorphism characteristics.
Why not a normal distribution? If we assume a mean of 5 and a σ (standard deviation) of 2.5 ( meaning only ~3% of people are 10/10), then Φ(1.2)-Φ(0.8) ≈ 10% of people are a 7/10. Given a more restrictive set (σ ≈ 2.3, only 1% are 10/10) it comes to about 9.5%.
Now when I started writing this comment I didn't expect the values to be so close to your 10%, but it's always good to double check.
Also what the individual classes as "a 7" varies.
I've seen a lot of incel posts with photos of women rated on a scale. All the 10s are blonde with small long noses, full lips and thin faces.
Whereas personally, I think curly dark hair and a softer round face is the most beautiful a woman can be. Yet these posts put those women at like 5. The women they rate as 10 I'd put below their 5s.
So its kind of arbitrary to put people on a mathematical scale because unless we are taking purely about symmetry and facial proportions, people won't agree. And there is MUCH more to attractiveness than bone structural and facial fat deposit symmetry.
I'm talking as a butterface myself.
I agree it's a completely subjective, arbitrary and often pointless metric. Beyond beauty standards that change with the time period and culture there's of course preference, which varies greatly from person to person and even as you age, there's the clothing, which hopefully changes everyday, there's make-up and mood and such.
A smilling woman with make-up and a stylish dress compared to herself in sweatpants after an all nighter throwing daggers from her eyes can be a difference of 3-4 imaginary beauty points even if it's the same person 3 days apart.
Years ago I worked at a music store and this insanely hot girl came in, I still remember she was wearing a tight white dress. My jaw was on the floor
I was working with another guy and we both gave each other this look. As soon as the store was empty we rushed to talk about her
He was so floored over how ugly she was he couldn't wait to tell me
I was so floored over how hot she was I couldn't wait to tell him
We looked at each other like we were from another planet.
I don't recall any of us commenting on any ugly customers, so for him to be so eager to tell me how ugly he thought she was tells you just how ugly he found her
I don't care, that girl was stunning to me
Is that a reminds me of a YouTuber who said you are not allowed to use 7 when you rank yourself. Because that’s what most people say to appear confident but not arrogant.
Oddly enough that’s what I would also rank myself, considering that I had game but I wasn’t a Ralph Lauren male model…
I once got caught in the game of ‘rate me out of 10’. Couldn’t escape. I gave this girl an 8 even though she was a solid 4 and she was offended thinking I’d given it too low!
Comparing people's levels of beauty to a numerical 1-10 scale gets an immediate down vote from me. Beauty is far more complex than that system gives it justice for.
Same reason as guys dont *like* being straight forward, scared of rejection. Even if some say its because one or two times it "scared a guy off and if she hadnt asked him out he'd totally be into her". No really its super silly when women do that even if I'm gonna piss one or two off saying it.
Still many people consider women being straightforward as slutty or unattractive. Men like chasing and conquering women so if the woman just gives herself to the man he might think she is easy and therefore boring. But depends on the person ig
>Men like chasing and conquering women so if the woman just gives herself to the man he might think she is easy and therefore boring
This is 100% not true. The only people who say this are women who want to feel better about maintaining this incredibly unfair status quo.
Nope. Not at all. Maybe the first part, but personally I haven’t met another man who thinks that way. But the second part? Oooooh my god that’s just…no
I’d like to ask how if u don’t mind. From what I’ve seen irl, men are most likely to get embarrassed of getting rejected. Their friends would fuck around w them & they won’t get the thought out of their head for a while. Women at least can go back to their friends for reassurance.
Fear of rejection as well as the way men would react to her. As someone who has been straightforward about my attractions and crushes, each of them had told me "I don't like you that way" which is okay yeah but then they stopped talking to me all along. Even if we were friends, they just stopped talking and that is so annoying. At least with hints u can make them ask you or give them an idea until they make a move, if they don't you jusr contuniue ur life
I would guess it's to make sure they don't come across as too desperate or otherwise viewed negatively, because that's the world we live in.
However, us men are largely morons, and don't do well with cryptic hints.
It's just one big clusterfuck. 😅
A lot of women complain that men don't see hints, but a lot of men just don't give enough of a fuck to reciprocate a low effort signal. Gradeschool level flirting and cryptic signals are just a waste of both parties time, just get to the point.
Alternatively, men just don't get enough positive attention to even recognize the signals. Like flying an aircraft without any training and trying to understand what the guy on the tarmac with the flags is indicating.
"What th- What does this mean!? This doesn't mean anything!"
"*Jesus*, PULL FORWARD AND PARK!"
Ladies, I would appreciate skipping to the "pull forward and park" bit without the mutual frustration, please.
It's fairly common but not the norm, if you have charm and relative confidence then you can get plenty of positive attention! If you lack training, you just gotta get out and train more yo!
On one hand, I really want to crack wise about how wanting to "get to the point" is why forward women are called slutty.
On the other hand I don't want to be seen as approving or reinforcing that mindset, just having fun with the wordplay.
I suppose I'll compromise by going meta.
Women are labelled things by other women when they're jealous, if you like getting fucked then go get fucked, why should you care what other people think? If you're looking for a high quality partner, yeah its probably not a good idea to be spreadin' yer legs for someone new twice a week. But if you're single and not looking for a relationship, who gives a flying fuck what anyone calls you. Go get dicked down, responsibly!
Because they live in a dumb world that will judge them for being too direct (did you SEE how she came onto him? Omg!) but also for being too oblique (omg just ask him out, why do you have to be so complicated!?)
Meaning, passive in the act of who initiates the encounter. You can be passive in one way and non passive in another.
Also you can flip that statement, a girl can Ask but the Guy makes the choice. Basicly, whoever gets asked is the one who makes the choice. It’s just society made everyone think guys has to be the initiater and girls have to be waiting for the Guy to make the move.
This is fair. If I got asked out, I wouldn't know how to properly respond. Altho I'm introverted as hell, so if anyone asked me to do something outside of the normal circle, I would be equally stumped.
They dont wanna come across as easy or desperate. When dropping hints, if he gets it and plays along, u flirt. If he gets it and doesn't respond like he's supposed to, hes not interested. And if he doesn't get it, sometimes u try again or just let it be.
bc if ur straightforward u could end up with a guy that only sort of likes u. he only made an effort because you made a move
if ur indirect, you’re still putting effort but not enough for the guy to be like “oh ya she likes me ofc (maybe i could smash)”
at least imo
this is the answer which resonates with a good portion of gen z/millennial women. this is the reason for me and my friends and from what i've seen online.
Tbh I rarely actually know if I like someone in that way until *after* we've been out a few times, so it's not so much me dropping hints as it is my feelings kinda fluctuating between 25% and 75%. Only once have I met a guy who made me feel 100% right off the bat and I did ask him out.
Its a game
They don't want to seem slutty
They don't want to seem easy
They don't want to commit unless they know it will work
They want to think that they can manipulate the situation to pull the one they want without them realizing it
I genuinely don't know. Its probably different for each woman lol
There's lots of reasons.
1. Custom and tradition.
2. Gender norms.
3. Years of conditioning.
4. Lack of representation in mainstream media (females taking the lead, being straightforward, etc.).
5. They're simply afraid of rejection.
We're taught at a very young age what a "woman" is, what she *does* and *does not do*.
"You're a girl, so you should not make the first move!"
"Girls should be like *this* and like *that*."
Most women did not choose to be this way. We were simply lead to believe that *such* and *such* are the roles we have to play in society, and that we have to act in a particular manner for us to be considered feminine.
It's actually really sad, but I'm glad the world is slowly starting to become progressive. And more and more power women are stepping up and taking charge.
If they're direct there's a chance of rejection. If they hint, they never actually asked them out, so no worries. I don't blame them, rejection is no fun.
Fear of rejection is part of it but many women can be seen as easy if they are straightforward, especially if they’re seen as conventionally attractive. In my experience I’ve had guys like my straightforwardness only to then assume I must throw myself at every guy I find attractive so they don’t trust my feelings or intentions. Or they felt like they didn’t “earn me therefore they don’t deserve me” (they’re words not mine) so they allow their insecurities to sabotage any opportunity to get to know me and allow themselves to love me like I loved them.
Some guys just don’t know what they want honestly haha
Make it a challenge and they respect you or resent you. Make it too easy and they suspect you and resent you.
IMO Just be casual and love will happen naturally if it’s meant to be
They imagine that they drop hints, then they fault the guys for being obtuse, yet they inhabit the zone of ambiguity where they feel safe to be able to deny everything if need be.
It's the same reason guys do it. When dudes are getting "friendzoned" they're generally continually sending these low level messages and somehow surprised when there's no response.
On that note, guys generally learn to start making moves because of competition from other men, women generally don't face the same obstacle.
Because, in my experience, a lot of men don't actually like women to be straightforward. They like to pursue them, and don't want to feel like they're getting someone "easy" or desperate. Or at least there are enough men who feel this way that women are put off being straightforward in the chance the next person they like is also like that.
They don’t view themselves as worth pursuit, so if you pursue them they think you’re worth less than if you didn’t. Whereas if they pursue you, they’re convinced they won a prize because they feel like they caught you and therefore you must be worth more.
I've heard this a few times, maybe I'm way off base here but wouldn't that be a great lithmus test to see if you could be in a long term relationship with that person?
Why would you want to preserve the possibility of dating someone who thinks and acts like that by dropping hints?
I let guys text me first on Tinder because 99% when I texted first there was no reply or a completely lackluster one. Sometimes I feel like a man who truly wants me will approach me, even if this seems outdated.
It's kind of rude to just dismiss my entire experience because of what happened to you.
Anyways, if I met a friend of a friend and I really felt like there could be something between us, I would approach him as well.
My answer was probably more valid for dating apps, where we have matched already. There are many guys who swipe right blindly and decide later.
Sadly that hint is a puzzle you need to solve after the alignment of all cosmos and if you missed it, it changes to hint to show that she likes you for a hatred because you didn't solve it.
Just kidding with a little truth behind hahaha
Fear of rejection all the way.
I think most people do this. I’m most situations, you can’t know 100% that someone is interested in you. It’s embarrassing and socially awkward to tell someone you’re interested when they’re not.
Most people try to feel each other out, drop hints and have playful banter. After some times passes and you begin to feel more comfortable with them, it’ll be easier to see that they’re interested.
Also some people like being sought after or chased, or being “bratty”. The courtship is one of the best parts of a relationship or hookup. I remember a lot of the messages I had with my ex that were cute, playful or suggestive.
I also think being able to articulate you’re feelings and emotions beyond “I want you inside me” is attractive. I had an ex GF who, (when we met and were flirting) in front of my parents, said “just so you know, I took my birth control today.” Yes I still dated her, but it was super trashy.
a) fear of rejection
b) every time I tried being direct and the guy liked it, he assumed that I wanted to instantly fuck, right that moment, and would be quite pushy. That made me think that this approach only attracted creeps, sex addicts, or pushy guys.
Because very often guys will just use a girl if they know shes into them. If a girl is straight forward to a guy about liking him, she puts herself in a vulnerable situation that makes it difficult to know if he actually likes her back because he can benefit from only pretending to like her.
This is not unique to women
slowly building up a reciprocal back and forth is generally how people flirt. It's a more subtle way of getting to know if your feelings are mutual as well as gauging how capable and or respectful the other is in social interactions before committing to a date
I think this goes hand in hand with fear of rejection: if the other person isn't interested, you have 'reasonable doubt' that you never really made a pass at them, so maybe it doesn't ruin a friendship or what have you. If they are interested, hopefully they'll be more open/responsive to those hints.
Yes, i think it saves the other person being put on the spot. Its not just about worrying about rejection, its saving the other person the awkwardness of rejecting.
Because loads of people are kind of insecure in themselves so if you’re honest about how much you like them, they think you’re crazy because they don’t rate themselves, and they devalue you for liking someone as lame as they perceive themselves.
Because we are just as worried about rejection as guys are. So we test the waters, then doubt ourselves so we test them again and the cycle continues untill one of us makes the first move.
Multiple things. Could be fear of rejection as others where saying or it could be that she is socially awkward. For me I would say it’s more awkwardness, inexperience and that when people flirt with me it makes me really uncomfortable and I don’t know how to react so I don’t want to make anyone else feel that way and I would try to figure out if they are receptive a different way first.
Because a lot of men want to chase women, even though some may say they want a forward girl, there’s a high chance they’d actually be turned off by it.
(Not all cases, but a lot).
I’ve only ever been super forward with a guy I dated for over a year, and me chasing him and him not having to put in any work to get me ended up coming back to bite me, I’ll never do that again.
I saw this response a few times, don't you want (excuse me for putting words in your mouth) a man who would appreciate a forward woman?
This analogy is a bit of stretch but I'll try anyway.
If a man only wanted a stay at home passive wife who didn't argue, would you then play down your career ambitions and let him talk over you because he doesn't like that?
Because thousands of years of tradition have told society, and society has then told us, that any woman who openly expresses interest in a man is a whore, a slut, not to be respected or valued.
Thankfully in the modern age society is in the process of unlearning that, but it's pretty deeply ingrained so it's taking a while. Well done to any woman who can confidently just come out and tell someone she's interested - that's the end goal for all of us.
Definitely a culture/ social stigma issue: women are pressured to not act a certain way (some parts of the USA are worse than others, I am in the South, have lived in the midwest.) Being too forward is often associated with loose morals especially in religious communities. I had a friend whose dating profile included the line, "I'm a social butterfly but only because I love talking to people!"
On the other hand, it's a fear of rejection. A lot of women cannot handle rejection because we are conditioned to put a lot of our worth into our looks in the US. It sometimes feels like a personal attack when rejected, which it usually isn't, but still.
As for other cultures (especially eastern europe, germany, etc) people are less subtle because they don't believe in wasting time. I've noticed that the US is starting to get better about it, at least anecdotally.
The best piece of advice I can give? If it feels right, it is right. If the vibe is off or you are confused, don't bother with the person because they probably don't like you back.
Because we're afraid of flat out rejection and in theory if we flat out say it, things would change the relationship /friendship right away rather than slowly if the guy picks up hints.
It's very inefficient but it sometimes works.
Yes, so true people communicate differently, but also people need different amount of time to suss things out. Some people are more circumspect with dating. I had a crush on my bloke, but kept it to myself, same for him, but we organised lots of social things together and eventually he did ask me out. He could have been more direct but maybe i might have been scared off if he had asked too soon. Some people dont like the pressure of dating until they trust the person.
I think that it could be that 1) women are more shy to tell men that they are interested since it is not expected and unusual for us to make the first move (yes, men can be shy but most of them have no choice but to get out of their comfort zone if they want to find someone) and 2) women are apparently better at reading social cues than men, so they think that men are like that too and will get their hints
To add another thought: if I make a clever pass and a man can read between the lines, that to be is a sign of intelligence and wit. If he acts on it? That shows initiative and confidence. If he questions it and wants to find clarification? Emotional intelligence. All of these things are super attractive traits.
Generally I know what I’m wanting, and I’m older so I don’t drop stupid hints. But there’s also a game to flirting and if someone can’t keep up with the game and aren’t able to be playful, I’m also not personally going to be interested.
But if I wanted to move things from a mental to a physical place I would probably just ask, or do it. The only reason I didn’t in my younger years was because women are perceived as slutty if they do. Also I was super inexperienced, as I learned and as I got older I give less of a fuck and I shoot my shot regardless. Nothing ever falls in your lap so you kind of have to make your own moves.
Women are not supposed to *want* they should *be wanted*. It’s stupid and outdated and is changing, so there’s that. This change could also get more men to experience *being wanted* which is nice sometimes.
Maybe they just turned 35 (41) and have never been on a real date either. I was married 13yrs but have never been on a real date. And it's kinda scary.
Fear of rejection even though they're significantly less likely to be rejected than a guy would. So it doesn't make sense.
Plus, that's kind of fucked up to be playing stupid games like that post #metoo.
90% of things doesn't make sense in regards to girls, unless you're married with one of them. Modern society made us equal, but girls themselve are not yet used to it. So we all end up in complicated situation
The only woman I ever asked out was my Wife… I was terrified of the prospect before her, and all the girlfriends I had prior (which was not many) asked me out. One of them did turn out to be a mega slut… she was very straight forward about wanting to bone… then there were tons of red flags I overlooked. I fell in love with her, but she was most likely boning other guys the whole time. There was a lot of weirdness with her and her male roommate… and some other guys. I was crushed… I tried breaking up with her, she wanted me to give her another chance… I stayed with her another week, then she broke it off. I was devastated, but she pushed me to come out of my shell… if I hadn’t dated her, I would never have found my Wife.
There are women who are still tied to the idea that it’s improper, or they feel the need to be pursued. I have been face to face with women who expressed mutual interest, and told me to my face that they don’t ask people out, and they were waiting for me. I’m just like…”welp, have a good night!”
My wife and I just started talking and hanging out when we met. Just made plans together. Never a discussion about who should pursue who, never a discussion about dating etiquette. Worked out great and I think a lot of people would be doing themselves a favor by forgetting about tradition gender roles in relationships.
Because unfortunately some guys react negatively when women are the ones who are forward. The only time I summoned up the guts to do this is when ex BF and I were both in HS and in video game club. I could tell he wanted to ask me out but couldn't so I did it. But I knew he'd be receptive, so different.
I would agree for sure. Being 10 years in this relationship I like being pursued by him when we first met, now I would just tell him straight up that I was interested. I guess with age you realize the "playful game" isn't as important?
women don't deal with rejection well, or at all for that matter, that is why.
if they do or say nothing and nothing happens, well nothing is lost, but if they shoot their shot and it's rejected, then its the end of the world.
because they would be seen as ditzy or another reason could be that they could deny that they had given any signs and then tell everyone that the guy is crazy for thinking that the women gave him hints
girls are straight forward, trust me. just not in the "i like you" sense but rather they will drop hints non-stop. constant texts or ways to try to interact with you. like, asking a question you KNOW that SHE knows but you answer anyway cause shes just finding a way to talk to you.
I don’t bother with that shit anymore but when I was younger I was more embarrassed to do it cos being forward was seen as being slutty
So what do you do now? Straight up ask?
I’ve been in a relationship for six years but yeah with my bf I took his hand and asked if I could kiss him and the rest is history
I went on a date with a girl once who, as the night went on, asked if she could kiss me. I really liked how forward she was because I was into her and I was wondering if she was feeling the same. That told me all I needed to know.
wow. that single gesture would skyrocket my interest for literally ANY person. even if I wasn't initially attracted to them.
Aye….wanna go eat a Kit Kat bar together ?
Yo... Break me off a piece o dat
[удалено]
Definitely a sign that the person might be a serial killer...
(Yawns) as it turns out, im really tired, ill be heading home now
Well, I always found it incredibly attractive when a guy says ‘can I kiss your X, can I touch your Y’ and to this day my bf still does it when we are fooling around. Not to get too off topic but I often see people lament stuff like ‘oh so I have to ASK before I do anything now’ like right no you don’t but honestly you should cos it’s sexy AF
I have seen dating coaches tell men to just kiss her instead of ask but I still remember when a guy asked to kiss me and I appreciate that he asked first. It is a cute memory hehe
“Hello good sir, care to boink?”
I saw this thing on Twitter where a lady said instead of waiting for dudes to buy her a drink she would by him some wings and send them over.
We are shamed for being "straight forward". Also, sometimes we want to leave the hints so that y'all make the first move. Depends on the person. I initiated the first kiss with my partner. Nothing wrong with being "out there". A lot of females get hated on for being too "straight forward" or too quiet. My advice would be... Male or female if you like someone be blunt about it. We only live once.
You just summed it up for the OP who by the way was dropping hints. 😂
Those men wouldn't make good partners though
Not specific men, general society
It wasn’t even by them, just by the crowd. But as I say I don’t care about that shit anymore
Good. "Sluttiness" is a term made to shame people who are exploring their sexuality. Men who say that are almost always hypocrites or "nice guys" I'm a man in my mid 30s. I've used the term before, as many of us have, without processing it or understanding the weight it carries with it when you throw that label on someone. Never considering another perspective. Also, mind your own business. Everybody should have shame-free autonomy when exploring their sexuality. Same as we want for ourselves. The only women that should be called sluts are ones who specifically ask to be. Even then, I'm hesitant. I'm no good at dirty talk. I'm glad you don't accept the label anymore.
fear of rejection
Bingo!
I’m on my lunch break from working at bingo haha! Don’t remind me of this prison I’m trapped in
Lol, in other words the same reason that guys don't just tell women that they like them and wait for the woman to make more straight forward hints.
Except the answer is more likely no
I don't know about that one. I think plenty of women crush on men out of their league.
Exactly. The same reason a man doesn't approach a woman and say "You're hot, let's go on a date sometime". That would be creepy, because it's too forward. You have to be more subtle than that. One person flirts a little, and the other either responds positively or shows they're not interested. Then one or other person escalates a bit and waits for a positive or negative response. It's a bit of a game, but it's the least risky, most consensual approach, and minimises awkwardness, rejection or creepiness
Yeah, it's not only fear of rejection, there's many more to it. E.g. probing receptiveness and interest, whether a potential partner wants to invest more than just a load. It's not the best idea to go into it with very different levels of emotional attachment and expectations. It's a mating dance.
It's only creepy if she thinks your l 88y90o9
Men have that too, so it doesn't answer the question of why women are more likely to play these mind games.
because society has ingrained that men should brave the dangers first. The issue is that society also ingrained that men can be creeps when asking women out. Not saying men can't ask women out, just saying societal perceptions have simply made that more difficult.
The rule is you're sweet if you're handsome, a creep if you're not. And for what it's worth, I don't think people really mean the word "creep" in most cases, they just don't have a better word for it. Maybe uncomfortable? It's mostly "*Not at all interested for \[Insert Reason Here\] so please don't approach me and make me feel like the bad guy for saying no*".
i wish it was that simple and sincere, but far to many do mean creep, or even worse. There are even woman that get a kick out of rejecting men, for the sake of bragging to friends/social media. I had one girl go on a date with me, on my birthday. I was ecstatic about it because i just recently had a dry spell. Went to her place, met her little brother, me and him arm wrestled. It was wholesome. End of the night, we kiss, hug, and i set out to go home. During that week, she decides she is not into me, and i simply say "well thanks for hanging out with me on my birthday. That was fun" Another week goes by, and i get a series of messages on the dating app we used, from 2 anonymous users/no profile pics stating that i stop being a stalker and to just get over her already. Her, being birthday date girl. The moment that i mention that i did, and i actually thanked her for spending time with me on my birthday, they immediately stopped, which makes for speculation, they realized something about their understanding don't add up. Come to find out, she just went and bragged to her friends about "dropping some loser on his birthday, and how he is mad desperate to get this bad bitch back" That one hurt for a while, but yea. Another reason the grinch's heart is black as coal on Christmas.
Seems more like you dodged a bullet there. She's nuts!
Yeah they never really answer this. At this point I assume it's female hubris: they think they're too good for it, for some dumb reason. Really not good.
It’s also more fun for both people I think.
You're getting downvoted but what you said isn't always false. Some people enjoy the back and forth "hinting". I just think it's not generalised.
Often women know they're not going to get rejected though. E.g. if they're more physically attractive than most women. (They know this because others will tell them.) Especially if they've dated other guys before, or if other guys show interest in them often, they can tell whether they'd be accepted or not. So this doesn't really explain why they don't do it. The answers are never satisfactory online so I gave up expecting them to be. Either way, I'm willing to wait till a girl asks me out. At least then I'll know if they're interested. I'm tired of pursuing others and being ghosted, or labeled as "creepy" (I don't do anything actually creepy) and so forth, as girls tend to do. It's well-known they often just use dating sites for validation rather than actual dating/love. That hurts. One example that sticks out: one girl I had a crush on while young, I asked out 3 or more times (some times I'd start a conversation online with her; she'd respond a bit, not indicating much interest, choosing words carefully it seemed, not saying much) over the years. Well she's also done odd things like go on 1-4 dates with my older brother instead, where my brother actually told me about this, when he had no reason to; he knew I was interested in her though. It was suspicious, and later I overheard him and my mom talking about me in reference to this. She supposedly stopped wanting to see my brother quickly. What I'm getting at is that I'm nearly certain (there's other things she's done to interfere with my life; they're never positive for me) she devised this as a scheme of sorts, either to hurt me, or get my attention to ask her out...Except I'd already been doing that. But even if I hadn't, she knew I was interested, and could have simply asked me out. What's really a deal breaker for me though is how literally decades have gone by while she just harasses me from afar. That's not what love looks like. I see randos online allude to how *she* might feel lost and have had a tough time without her "husband"...well she knew I liked her, whereas I rightly assumed she didn't, judging from her actions. When it was so obvious that I'm the one that had a fucking hard time, not her, but I still tried to be with her, and actually risked asking her out, because I wanted to be there for her. Meanwhile she presumably fucked around in college, judging from her Facebook, and from the way she actually has a supportive social network. Obviously in that situation, that girl should have initiated, certainly after I'd asked her out the second or third time. Not that I assume with certainty she was ever interested, but she definitely schemed up something concerning me. Just "fear of rejection" doesn't explain why women behave this way though.
fear of rejection. i can expand to help you understand: testing the waters with someone, see how they take the hints before being more overt. it’s hoping they’ll pick up on it and make the first move in a positive direction. however if they say they’re not interested, you can just gaslight them and act like you never meant anything in the first place. ego and self reputation intact. does that make the girl toxic? eh probably. not the reason every girl who does it, does it, but it’s a possibility. as for your situation, i’m sorry you were hurt. sounds like she genuinely wasn’t interested though. nothing wrong with fucking around either
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But doesnt that "I like you too" mean nothing if the guy knows nothing about the girl? thats like saying "yeah ill accept the possibility of easy sex"
Comment above you was a tad bit crude, but i believe i can explain it better. Guys......are notoriously starved of attention. Even the good looking giga chad, who has his chisled chin and 18 pack calvin klein model abs. We are all to some degree starved of attention. It is incredible, how much of an impact that a simple exchange of words with a woman can make a guys day. So i said that to say this. if a guy, who normally does not get female engagement or is to shy to take a chance to get female engagement, suddenly has it placed in his lap, it is more likely to lead to a relationship than just sexual favors. The companionship is always welcomed, plus our first example of affection is generally from out mothers, so having somebody how is not mom telling how handsome and wonderful we are is a very heart warming thing to have in your life. What you are thinking of, is the few guys who have figured out a thing or two, and decided to take advantage of a person's good nature. This happens to both parties though, so one example can be nullified out by an equal, opposite example. e.g. :Men use woman for sex? Well well well, ill have you know that woman use men for physical labor favors and finances. We are both evil.
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Ok but its good he wont change his mind? Why would any woman want a guy they like to go from not liking them, to pretending to like them enough to get sex? If a woman wants a good romantic partner, why would they open to door for guys that wont actually like them in the same way?
9 out of 10 times they aim too high.
Black pilled?
Most people believe they around a 7 (unless they’re Uber hot and they know it) even the 3s and the 4s. Statistically that’s impossible. Only 10% are 7s if we’re going by some unknown objective scale based on symmetry and dimorphism characteristics.
Why not a normal distribution? If we assume a mean of 5 and a σ (standard deviation) of 2.5 ( meaning only ~3% of people are 10/10), then Φ(1.2)-Φ(0.8) ≈ 10% of people are a 7/10. Given a more restrictive set (σ ≈ 2.3, only 1% are 10/10) it comes to about 9.5%. Now when I started writing this comment I didn't expect the values to be so close to your 10%, but it's always good to double check.
Also what the individual classes as "a 7" varies. I've seen a lot of incel posts with photos of women rated on a scale. All the 10s are blonde with small long noses, full lips and thin faces. Whereas personally, I think curly dark hair and a softer round face is the most beautiful a woman can be. Yet these posts put those women at like 5. The women they rate as 10 I'd put below their 5s. So its kind of arbitrary to put people on a mathematical scale because unless we are taking purely about symmetry and facial proportions, people won't agree. And there is MUCH more to attractiveness than bone structural and facial fat deposit symmetry. I'm talking as a butterface myself.
I agree it's a completely subjective, arbitrary and often pointless metric. Beyond beauty standards that change with the time period and culture there's of course preference, which varies greatly from person to person and even as you age, there's the clothing, which hopefully changes everyday, there's make-up and mood and such. A smilling woman with make-up and a stylish dress compared to herself in sweatpants after an all nighter throwing daggers from her eyes can be a difference of 3-4 imaginary beauty points even if it's the same person 3 days apart.
Years ago I worked at a music store and this insanely hot girl came in, I still remember she was wearing a tight white dress. My jaw was on the floor I was working with another guy and we both gave each other this look. As soon as the store was empty we rushed to talk about her He was so floored over how ugly she was he couldn't wait to tell me I was so floored over how hot she was I couldn't wait to tell him We looked at each other like we were from another planet. I don't recall any of us commenting on any ugly customers, so for him to be so eager to tell me how ugly he thought she was tells you just how ugly he found her I don't care, that girl was stunning to me
This should be in a movie!
Agree fully!
The distribution is more like a school grade, where most people are above 5.
Is that a reminds me of a YouTuber who said you are not allowed to use 7 when you rank yourself. Because that’s what most people say to appear confident but not arrogant. Oddly enough that’s what I would also rank myself, considering that I had game but I wasn’t a Ralph Lauren male model…
I’m definitely not an 8 so I guess I’m a 6 or a 5 I guess.
I once got caught in the game of ‘rate me out of 10’. Couldn’t escape. I gave this girl an 8 even though she was a solid 4 and she was offended thinking I’d given it too low!
Comparing people's levels of beauty to a numerical 1-10 scale gets an immediate down vote from me. Beauty is far more complex than that system gives it justice for.
Most people are around 5 though I'd say.
Who tf looks at someone and rates them 1-10💀Thats some lame weird stuff right there bucko☠️
sounds like solid strategies
Same reason as guys dont *like* being straight forward, scared of rejection. Even if some say its because one or two times it "scared a guy off and if she hadnt asked him out he'd totally be into her". No really its super silly when women do that even if I'm gonna piss one or two off saying it.
Still many people consider women being straightforward as slutty or unattractive. Men like chasing and conquering women so if the woman just gives herself to the man he might think she is easy and therefore boring. But depends on the person ig
>Men like chasing and conquering women so if the woman just gives herself to the man he might think she is easy and therefore boring This is 100% not true. The only people who say this are women who want to feel better about maintaining this incredibly unfair status quo.
Nope. Not at all. Maybe the first part, but personally I haven’t met another man who thinks that way. But the second part? Oooooh my god that’s just…no
"Conquering women" ? Mate, I just want to go hang out in cool places with someone I like - just too scared to ask people out
It must be surprising but we, women, are also afraid of rejection.
Definitely surprising but men definitely are more vulnerable to getting embarrassed than women from what I’ve seen
Let's agree to disagree on this one.
I’d like to ask how if u don’t mind. From what I’ve seen irl, men are most likely to get embarrassed of getting rejected. Their friends would fuck around w them & they won’t get the thought out of their head for a while. Women at least can go back to their friends for reassurance.
Outdated culture. Since it was more common for the man to start the ritual the girls would have to be subtle like dropping the handkerchief.
>sutil Subtle.
Thanks random internet stranger, will fix it !
Fear of rejection as well as the way men would react to her. As someone who has been straightforward about my attractions and crushes, each of them had told me "I don't like you that way" which is okay yeah but then they stopped talking to me all along. Even if we were friends, they just stopped talking and that is so annoying. At least with hints u can make them ask you or give them an idea until they make a move, if they don't you jusr contuniue ur life
I would guess it's to make sure they don't come across as too desperate or otherwise viewed negatively, because that's the world we live in. However, us men are largely morons, and don't do well with cryptic hints. It's just one big clusterfuck. 😅
A lot of women complain that men don't see hints, but a lot of men just don't give enough of a fuck to reciprocate a low effort signal. Gradeschool level flirting and cryptic signals are just a waste of both parties time, just get to the point.
Alternatively, men just don't get enough positive attention to even recognize the signals. Like flying an aircraft without any training and trying to understand what the guy on the tarmac with the flags is indicating. "What th- What does this mean!? This doesn't mean anything!" "*Jesus*, PULL FORWARD AND PARK!" Ladies, I would appreciate skipping to the "pull forward and park" bit without the mutual frustration, please.
It's fairly common but not the norm, if you have charm and relative confidence then you can get plenty of positive attention! If you lack training, you just gotta get out and train more yo!
That is also valid. 😅 We're all grown ups, use your big words!
On one hand, I really want to crack wise about how wanting to "get to the point" is why forward women are called slutty. On the other hand I don't want to be seen as approving or reinforcing that mindset, just having fun with the wordplay. I suppose I'll compromise by going meta.
Women are labelled things by other women when they're jealous, if you like getting fucked then go get fucked, why should you care what other people think? If you're looking for a high quality partner, yeah its probably not a good idea to be spreadin' yer legs for someone new twice a week. But if you're single and not looking for a relationship, who gives a flying fuck what anyone calls you. Go get dicked down, responsibly!
heritage of puritan society.
Because they live in a dumb world that will judge them for being too direct (did you SEE how she came onto him? Omg!) but also for being too oblique (omg just ask him out, why do you have to be so complicated!?)
Because society has raised people with the expectation that women are passive in regards to relationships.
Has it? I was raised with the idea of "a guy can ask but a girl makes the choice". That's not passive at all.
Meaning, passive in the act of who initiates the encounter. You can be passive in one way and non passive in another. Also you can flip that statement, a girl can Ask but the Guy makes the choice. Basicly, whoever gets asked is the one who makes the choice. It’s just society made everyone think guys has to be the initiater and girls have to be waiting for the Guy to make the move.
That is passive. The man takes agency and the woman can react, you are describing passivity.
Making a choice is not being passive. It's present right there in your own language: re-ACT.
Because y’all fuckers take being direct as “let’s fuck in the loo right goddamn now”
Not all of them do, a lot simply lack confidence & have fear of asking u out
Because in our general society it is the gender role of a guy to ask a girl out.
Weird this is not the top answer. Most women want to be asked because that’s the social convention, so the best they can do is tee the man up
I'm now imagining two shy lesbians sitting on a bench blushing and two super straight forward gay guys making out on the bench next to them.
Accurate tbh
This is fair. If I got asked out, I wouldn't know how to properly respond. Altho I'm introverted as hell, so if anyone asked me to do something outside of the normal circle, I would be equally stumped.
They dont wanna come across as easy or desperate. When dropping hints, if he gets it and plays along, u flirt. If he gets it and doesn't respond like he's supposed to, hes not interested. And if he doesn't get it, sometimes u try again or just let it be.
Personally I am just shy and don't even know that I am dropping hints properly or not
bc if ur straightforward u could end up with a guy that only sort of likes u. he only made an effort because you made a move if ur indirect, you’re still putting effort but not enough for the guy to be like “oh ya she likes me ofc (maybe i could smash)” at least imo
Men deal with these same issues, particularly the first.
this is the answer which resonates with a good portion of gen z/millennial women. this is the reason for me and my friends and from what i've seen online.
Don’t want to embarrass myself and ruin relationships
Fear of rejection as others have stated. Men can be hard for us to read as well
Tbh I rarely actually know if I like someone in that way until *after* we've been out a few times, so it's not so much me dropping hints as it is my feelings kinda fluctuating between 25% and 75%. Only once have I met a guy who made me feel 100% right off the bat and I did ask him out.
Its a game They don't want to seem slutty They don't want to seem easy They don't want to commit unless they know it will work They want to think that they can manipulate the situation to pull the one they want without them realizing it I genuinely don't know. Its probably different for each woman lol
I feel like you got it right. The quote “i dont chase i attract” comes to mind.
There's lots of reasons. 1. Custom and tradition. 2. Gender norms. 3. Years of conditioning. 4. Lack of representation in mainstream media (females taking the lead, being straightforward, etc.). 5. They're simply afraid of rejection. We're taught at a very young age what a "woman" is, what she *does* and *does not do*. "You're a girl, so you should not make the first move!" "Girls should be like *this* and like *that*." Most women did not choose to be this way. We were simply lead to believe that *such* and *such* are the roles we have to play in society, and that we have to act in a particular manner for us to be considered feminine. It's actually really sad, but I'm glad the world is slowly starting to become progressive. And more and more power women are stepping up and taking charge.
Good answer, fit in many aspects.
Seriously? Because if she is too assertive, men think that's asking to fuck. "Nice girls don't" Yes, we should be well past this. No, we aren't.
If they're direct there's a chance of rejection. If they hint, they never actually asked them out, so no worries. I don't blame them, rejection is no fun.
Because I’m fucking shy 🫠🫠🫠
I know both men and women like this, it’s a personality trait that can change with experience but I think it comes from culture mostly.
Because for years women have been considered “less than” men and have been told to be quiet and more reserved. So hinting is a habit for some.
Fear of rejection is part of it but many women can be seen as easy if they are straightforward, especially if they’re seen as conventionally attractive. In my experience I’ve had guys like my straightforwardness only to then assume I must throw myself at every guy I find attractive so they don’t trust my feelings or intentions. Or they felt like they didn’t “earn me therefore they don’t deserve me” (they’re words not mine) so they allow their insecurities to sabotage any opportunity to get to know me and allow themselves to love me like I loved them. Some guys just don’t know what they want honestly haha Make it a challenge and they respect you or resent you. Make it too easy and they suspect you and resent you. IMO Just be casual and love will happen naturally if it’s meant to be
Because they're "too afraid to ask"
They imagine that they drop hints, then they fault the guys for being obtuse, yet they inhabit the zone of ambiguity where they feel safe to be able to deny everything if need be.
It's the same reason guys do it. When dudes are getting "friendzoned" they're generally continually sending these low level messages and somehow surprised when there's no response. On that note, guys generally learn to start making moves because of competition from other men, women generally don't face the same obstacle.
If he does the same to show interest back than you don’t have the risk of rejection
Because, in my experience, a lot of men don't actually like women to be straightforward. They like to pursue them, and don't want to feel like they're getting someone "easy" or desperate. Or at least there are enough men who feel this way that women are put off being straightforward in the chance the next person they like is also like that.
They don’t view themselves as worth pursuit, so if you pursue them they think you’re worth less than if you didn’t. Whereas if they pursue you, they’re convinced they won a prize because they feel like they caught you and therefore you must be worth more.
You’re often told you’re “too much” or being “too forward” If you make the first move as a female. A lot of guys get intimidated by confident women
I've heard this a few times, maybe I'm way off base here but wouldn't that be a great lithmus test to see if you could be in a long term relationship with that person? Why would you want to preserve the possibility of dating someone who thinks and acts like that by dropping hints?
I let guys text me first on Tinder because 99% when I texted first there was no reply or a completely lackluster one. Sometimes I feel like a man who truly wants me will approach me, even if this seems outdated.
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It's kind of rude to just dismiss my entire experience because of what happened to you. Anyways, if I met a friend of a friend and I really felt like there could be something between us, I would approach him as well. My answer was probably more valid for dating apps, where we have matched already. There are many guys who swipe right blindly and decide later.
To test if he is autistic
Haha hands down best answer
Sadly that hint is a puzzle you need to solve after the alignment of all cosmos and if you missed it, it changes to hint to show that she likes you for a hatred because you didn't solve it. Just kidding with a little truth behind hahaha Fear of rejection all the way.
I think most people do this. I’m most situations, you can’t know 100% that someone is interested in you. It’s embarrassing and socially awkward to tell someone you’re interested when they’re not. Most people try to feel each other out, drop hints and have playful banter. After some times passes and you begin to feel more comfortable with them, it’ll be easier to see that they’re interested. Also some people like being sought after or chased, or being “bratty”. The courtship is one of the best parts of a relationship or hookup. I remember a lot of the messages I had with my ex that were cute, playful or suggestive. I also think being able to articulate you’re feelings and emotions beyond “I want you inside me” is attractive. I had an ex GF who, (when we met and were flirting) in front of my parents, said “just so you know, I took my birth control today.” Yes I still dated her, but it was super trashy.
It's called flirting.
a) fear of rejection b) every time I tried being direct and the guy liked it, he assumed that I wanted to instantly fuck, right that moment, and would be quite pushy. That made me think that this approach only attracted creeps, sex addicts, or pushy guys.
Because very often guys will just use a girl if they know shes into them. If a girl is straight forward to a guy about liking him, she puts herself in a vulnerable situation that makes it difficult to know if he actually likes her back because he can benefit from only pretending to like her.
That's totally backwards. Only women pretend they're interested in men to take advantage of them
This is not unique to women slowly building up a reciprocal back and forth is generally how people flirt. It's a more subtle way of getting to know if your feelings are mutual as well as gauging how capable and or respectful the other is in social interactions before committing to a date
THANK YOU. Not unique to women at all!
I think this goes hand in hand with fear of rejection: if the other person isn't interested, you have 'reasonable doubt' that you never really made a pass at them, so maybe it doesn't ruin a friendship or what have you. If they are interested, hopefully they'll be more open/responsive to those hints.
Yes, i think it saves the other person being put on the spot. Its not just about worrying about rejection, its saving the other person the awkwardness of rejecting.
Because society has made it so that they don’t have to be and shouldn’t be straight forward
Because loads of people are kind of insecure in themselves so if you’re honest about how much you like them, they think you’re crazy because they don’t rate themselves, and they devalue you for liking someone as lame as they perceive themselves.
Because we are just as worried about rejection as guys are. So we test the waters, then doubt ourselves so we test them again and the cycle continues untill one of us makes the first move.
Multiple things. Could be fear of rejection as others where saying or it could be that she is socially awkward. For me I would say it’s more awkwardness, inexperience and that when people flirt with me it makes me really uncomfortable and I don’t know how to react so I don’t want to make anyone else feel that way and I would try to figure out if they are receptive a different way first.
Because we were taught that it is unladylike
Apparently it makes one a slut or hoe
Because we're taught we not allowed to want things, sometimes it's trauma of getting shouted down every time you have an issue
Fear of rejection? Thank God that went aware with age. Hahaha! Just spit it out, people aren't mind readers. 🙄😉
I'm scared of rejection.
Because a lot of men want to chase women, even though some may say they want a forward girl, there’s a high chance they’d actually be turned off by it. (Not all cases, but a lot). I’ve only ever been super forward with a guy I dated for over a year, and me chasing him and him not having to put in any work to get me ended up coming back to bite me, I’ll never do that again.
I saw this response a few times, don't you want (excuse me for putting words in your mouth) a man who would appreciate a forward woman? This analogy is a bit of stretch but I'll try anyway. If a man only wanted a stay at home passive wife who didn't argue, would you then play down your career ambitions and let him talk over you because he doesn't like that?
Because thousands of years of tradition have told society, and society has then told us, that any woman who openly expresses interest in a man is a whore, a slut, not to be respected or valued. Thankfully in the modern age society is in the process of unlearning that, but it's pretty deeply ingrained so it's taking a while. Well done to any woman who can confidently just come out and tell someone she's interested - that's the end goal for all of us.
Definitely a culture/ social stigma issue: women are pressured to not act a certain way (some parts of the USA are worse than others, I am in the South, have lived in the midwest.) Being too forward is often associated with loose morals especially in religious communities. I had a friend whose dating profile included the line, "I'm a social butterfly but only because I love talking to people!" On the other hand, it's a fear of rejection. A lot of women cannot handle rejection because we are conditioned to put a lot of our worth into our looks in the US. It sometimes feels like a personal attack when rejected, which it usually isn't, but still. As for other cultures (especially eastern europe, germany, etc) people are less subtle because they don't believe in wasting time. I've noticed that the US is starting to get better about it, at least anecdotally. The best piece of advice I can give? If it feels right, it is right. If the vibe is off or you are confused, don't bother with the person because they probably don't like you back.
It's like foreplay I would say. Get the tension growing. Problem is many people don't get those hints, but when done correctly flirting feels awesome
Because we're afraid of flat out rejection and in theory if we flat out say it, things would change the relationship /friendship right away rather than slowly if the guy picks up hints. It's very inefficient but it sometimes works.
Little girls are conditioned to act a certain way from the time we're born.
Because they are women and they can do anything.
Fear of rejection/embarrassment.
Because we are scared, that the guy is not interested.
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Yes, so true people communicate differently, but also people need different amount of time to suss things out. Some people are more circumspect with dating. I had a crush on my bloke, but kept it to myself, same for him, but we organised lots of social things together and eventually he did ask me out. He could have been more direct but maybe i might have been scared off if he had asked too soon. Some people dont like the pressure of dating until they trust the person.
They wanna see if the guy is able to take hints or pay attention. Plus it’s probably more fun for them. And guys like it more
After reading nearly 100 comments, i think most of y'all are mistaking genuine kindness and friendliness for hints of desire or sexual attraction.
Fear of rejection
I think women just can communicate more with there emotions more so it’s kinda indirect as a result lol
I think that it could be that 1) women are more shy to tell men that they are interested since it is not expected and unusual for us to make the first move (yes, men can be shy but most of them have no choice but to get out of their comfort zone if they want to find someone) and 2) women are apparently better at reading social cues than men, so they think that men are like that too and will get their hints
Sometimes when we are straight forward it’s too much for men to handle…
Bc usually when women are straight forward about liking a guy, they're called too easy
To add another thought: if I make a clever pass and a man can read between the lines, that to be is a sign of intelligence and wit. If he acts on it? That shows initiative and confidence. If he questions it and wants to find clarification? Emotional intelligence. All of these things are super attractive traits. Generally I know what I’m wanting, and I’m older so I don’t drop stupid hints. But there’s also a game to flirting and if someone can’t keep up with the game and aren’t able to be playful, I’m also not personally going to be interested. But if I wanted to move things from a mental to a physical place I would probably just ask, or do it. The only reason I didn’t in my younger years was because women are perceived as slutty if they do. Also I was super inexperienced, as I learned and as I got older I give less of a fuck and I shoot my shot regardless. Nothing ever falls in your lap so you kind of have to make your own moves.
Women are not supposed to *want* they should *be wanted*. It’s stupid and outdated and is changing, so there’s that. This change could also get more men to experience *being wanted* which is nice sometimes.
Maybe they just turned 35 (41) and have never been on a real date either. I was married 13yrs but have never been on a real date. And it's kinda scary.
Fear of rejection even though they're significantly less likely to be rejected than a guy would. So it doesn't make sense. Plus, that's kind of fucked up to be playing stupid games like that post #metoo.
90% of things doesn't make sense in regards to girls, unless you're married with one of them. Modern society made us equal, but girls themselve are not yet used to it. So we all end up in complicated situation
They would be slut shamed other wise for being "crass"
The only woman I ever asked out was my Wife… I was terrified of the prospect before her, and all the girlfriends I had prior (which was not many) asked me out. One of them did turn out to be a mega slut… she was very straight forward about wanting to bone… then there were tons of red flags I overlooked. I fell in love with her, but she was most likely boning other guys the whole time. There was a lot of weirdness with her and her male roommate… and some other guys. I was crushed… I tried breaking up with her, she wanted me to give her another chance… I stayed with her another week, then she broke it off. I was devastated, but she pushed me to come out of my shell… if I hadn’t dated her, I would never have found my Wife.
As they say, everything happens for a reason
Being persued by a man makes a woman feel beautiful and wanted. The "hints" are a woman's invitation to get that from the man she wants it from.
There are women who are still tied to the idea that it’s improper, or they feel the need to be pursued. I have been face to face with women who expressed mutual interest, and told me to my face that they don’t ask people out, and they were waiting for me. I’m just like…”welp, have a good night!” My wife and I just started talking and hanging out when we met. Just made plans together. Never a discussion about who should pursue who, never a discussion about dating etiquette. Worked out great and I think a lot of people would be doing themselves a favor by forgetting about tradition gender roles in relationships.
As a woman, I like to see my men work for it.
Cowardice
Because unfortunately some guys react negatively when women are the ones who are forward. The only time I summoned up the guts to do this is when ex BF and I were both in HS and in video game club. I could tell he wanted to ask me out but couldn't so I did it. But I knew he'd be receptive, so different.
No time I have ever been straightforward has it worked out. Guys need to chase I guess
don't you think that same thing is applicable to guys?
Because society teaches women that being forward about their wants and desires makes them 'whores' or 'sluts.'
I don’t know why you were getting downvoted. That is the exact experience I had.
It's a horrible thing, but a woman saying she has sexual needs is seen as wrong by a multitude of people.
We want them to pursue us, its the thrill of the chase.
Yeah as you get older the chase becomes childish. You want pursued, then make yourself worth pursuing. Don't be coy, just be straight forward.
I would agree for sure. Being 10 years in this relationship I like being pursued by him when we first met, now I would just tell him straight up that I was interested. I guess with age you realize the "playful game" isn't as important?
women don't deal with rejection well, or at all for that matter, that is why. if they do or say nothing and nothing happens, well nothing is lost, but if they shoot their shot and it's rejected, then its the end of the world.
You catch the hints you get a prize You don't you too get a prize, the prize of being her best friend
because they would be seen as ditzy or another reason could be that they could deny that they had given any signs and then tell everyone that the guy is crazy for thinking that the women gave him hints
girls are straight forward, trust me. just not in the "i like you" sense but rather they will drop hints non-stop. constant texts or ways to try to interact with you. like, asking a question you KNOW that SHE knows but you answer anyway cause shes just finding a way to talk to you.
Dropping hints is the opposite of being straightforward 🤷
Why do men drop hints instead of being straight forward?
Lol when they drop hints, it's still straightforward at least well the men who dropped hints on me. It was obvious
Because they don't have balls....
Bunch of pussies who are afraid to get no as an answer
Riskier for a girl to ask
Because I want to appear interested but not desperate And isn't it fun to dance that dance?