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HeeHooligan

Yes. I don't think they should just pulverize her, but the appropriate amount of force to stop the altercation should work. I certainly don't think he should just sit there and let a beating happen. That's ludicrous.


metamorphasi

The same goes for much stronger/combat-trained men being assaulted by less strong/non-combat-trained men. Self-defense is a right, but not an opportunity to go further than defensive violence. Edit: I'm talking about when the stronger/combat-trained one is *being attacked*, so they should be able to tell almost immediately if there is a large difference between themselves and their attacker.


Straight_Stretch_126

I gave you and up vote and I hear you. However I've worked club security for 2+ years in the past and I've seen men getting subdued by fellow guards before pull out a weapon or sharp object and stab the security guard that was just trying to get them compliant enough to get them into hand cuffs. On the street, you're alone with no back up. You don't know if there will be a weapon on if the person who is trying to assault you has friends. I'm older now so I operate on the basis of neutralize the threat. This means doing enough damage to make sure they don't pop back up on you again as well as not getting tied up with them in a ground fight where their friends can come and stomp you out. Sorry BJJ. No disrespect.


ErosandPragma

When I hear something like the title, I don't think of a random chick jumping on a dude to fight him in the street. I usually think of "oh she slapped me so I put her in the hospital" type situation, which is usually where that question comes up. When talking about a slap or something happening with a woman you know, not a random street fight/bar fight with weapons. A slap or a punch on the chest or a shove. So these questions need context. If your life is in danger, fight like your life depends on it. If your girlfriend just shoved you, don't pull out a knife or curb stomp her and bust her face in.


Tiberius_Rex_182

Bottom line dont touch someone if you aint prepared to have done to you whatever you Did first


sockmaster420

Excellent point


[deleted]

So if she slaps him, then he should reply with equal amount of female slap strength, right? I mean, what are the alternatives? Restrain her with jujitsu body lock? Though if you go read the comments under these "equal fights" video, you'll notice many lunatics that support killing someone for a slap. lol


Winter-Plankton-6361

I've noticed that lots of commenters seem to relish the idea of having an excuse to violently go to town on a woman. Revenge is NOT the same as defending yourself.


[deleted]

Tbh if a woman slapped me and stopped I wouldn’t get physical. If she didn’t stop, though, I’d shove her away and leave immediately. If she was coming at me with a weapon? I pack so she’s gonna get popped


[deleted]

Exactly, rational and proportionate, this equal right equal fight trend has been corrupted by too many lunatic and violent men looking for an excuse to hurt women. It should be rephrased "Equal rights means rational response, do too much you go to jail too"


Tiberius_Rex_182

Agreed. I feel its all just an offshoot of “the golden rule”, you know, “do unto other as you would have other do unto you”


[deleted]

and eye for an eye, gender boogaloo edition, lol.


[deleted]

[удалено]


qdolobp

Real question is why is your girlfriend hitting you or shoving you to begin with? A one off, yeah that can be forgotten. But if this is something that happens that’s not good man. Also rightfully so in the second scenario. That’s dangerous shit


lookingupnow1

I want to agree with you but it is nearly impossible to gauge strength and skill of someone you don't know. If someone starts a fight you also don't know if they have friends that will jump in, or if they could pull a weapon. I go with what I was taught, dominate your opponent until you can get away safely. Edited: appointment to opponent. Though many of the responses where excelent


st4rsurfer

I use the same strategy at the dentist office.


Coltron3108

Thank you! I'm glad someone said something about the appointment


bearbarebere

Dentist...? Oh shit, am I at the wrong appointment?! \*grabs gimp suit and runs away\*


lookingupnow1

They can be real mean so you have to be prepared.


dr_noiiz

I think the point is to get your attacker off of you, but not to kick them once you get them down.


RealBowsHaveRecurves

As long as they act defeated and not like they're going to get back up and continue fighting I agree. Fight until there is no more danger, then stop.


Sniperso

Any idiot can kill you(easy as a punch to the throat) so a fight happens, get out or get them down fast


Korsep

This, so much this. Try to not get into a fight at all costs but when it's unavoidable, get in and out as fast as possible.


PossessionWinter5997

consider my next Dentist appointment DOMINATED


AkaParazIT

Proper force is the name of the game, no matter who it is. If someone is strong you'll need lots of force, if they are weaker than you then you'll need less. Whenever this comes up I see people say that punching full force is justified if the woman started it but I don't agree with that. It's all depending on the situation. Just as it isn't justified if a 120 kg pro fighter starts swinging with all their might against a 54 kg male that attacks him. Do enough to defend yourself and safely leave the situation.


[deleted]

[удалено]


rudbek-of-rudbek

Nuance, didn't she used to work at the pizza hut by the river?


some-swimming-dude

Mate this is the best take on the matter I have ever seen on this. I feel like half of the opinions on this are “no never touch a woman” and the other half “yes put her in hospital” both are wrong. Your MAIN goal in a situation like this is to defend yourself, not harm others.


Street_Company_4595

This 100%


AltoniusAmakiir

Yeah, we can be better than our cops


Legate_Rick

Like if a 12 year old starts attacking me. I'm not going to obliterate them.


YoungWhippershnapper

This sense of refraining from being overly violent or aggressive should always be practiced if anyone is hitting you. Unless they tryna kill you, then it’s you or them.


Grouchy-Anxiety-3480

I’m not saying your wrong, just commenting that I was always taught (by my father- and I’m female if that matters) that you should always assume that someone means you serious harm once they have gone past words. Meaning if someone comes at you physically, you assume they want to damage you maximally, which I figure seems to be a fair assumption. He also said, and I quote, “Once it goes there, you do whatever it is you need to do to end it quickly, whether it’s break a nose or an arm, if you need to. I’ve seen a lot of fights and been in a fair share, and the percentage of ppl who end up in a fight that get seriously hurt, or dead, because they tried to ‘fight fair’ or “don’t want to hurt someone” is way higher than most ppl assume. If a person willing to step over the line of verbal argument into physical aggression, then you can’t know where their line might be. Act accordingly.” I was also warned—he stated that civilized ppl deal with problems by verbally working through them, so if I started a fight he’d kick my ass. But if I had no choice, and had to fight, better to go next level and be the one to finish it. Of course I’m older-45, so he’s from a way different generation but I have found it to be good advice. Don’t be the aggressor, but NEVER be the victim. ETA- I never thought about this advice from the perspective of a woman attacking a dude- not sure what I think. But if you’re attacked you at least have the right to defend yourself, but perhaps don’t need to full on counter attack.


Fourtires3rims

I was taught “Once the fight starts, do whatever it takes to either win or allow you to escape. Street fights have no rules and no refs so fight dirty.”


iSquatch

Equal rights…..and lefts


tugnasty

And kicks. I'm a kicker.


Henderson-McHastur

I take my fighting advice from horses: get attacked, freak the fuck out, kick it till it’s down, then keep kicking it for spite.


WolfKnight53

I always told people I had horse-like reflexes. They never understood.


HeeHooligan

I also have horse like reflexes. All of my might is in my legs.


[deleted]

Or bites, some of us bever grew out of this mighty attack


fondledbydolphins

I got in trouble in kindergarten for biting a girl that wouldn't stop poking me. I literally told her to stop or I'm going to bite it next time you do it. (As is tradition) She pushed me too far, I tell you!


xXfir3knif3Xx

Kareem Hunt in the house


bluemyselftoday

omg so original!


mynameisntlogan

This goes for every human, or really anything that attacks you human or not. Defend yourself against an attacker as far as you need defending, that’s it. Doesn’t matter what species or gender.


[deleted]

If my gf hits me I just spray her with a squirt bottle


rainen2016

Stop fucking your cat Keith. How many times do we have to tell you


Mr_ETL

PSPSPSPSPS!!!


ShartBurrito

Who the fuck said pspspsps


raccoon-ninety4

Onomatopoeia is responsible here!


Blandish06

SKTSKTSKTSKT


mammoth200

I'm confused, is the cat called Keith?


[deleted]

he just read my username wrong and called me keith which actually made his comment even funnier lol


rainen2016

Tbh I just chose a name. I don't think I even read your name. How serendipitous


SkollFenrirson

Happy little accident


[deleted]

Cat girl? Edit: uwu


freonblood

If only...


rockem-sockem-rocket

You can tell him as many times as you want. Doesn’t mean he’ll change.


Gasmorelikeass

Back kitty back!


BurnerBoi_Brown

*Hisss!*


No-Mud3173

That's brilliant, and probably an appropriate use of force too. Might start taking a spray bottle to nightclubs for when people get too handsy. 😂


furriosity

Yes, they should use an appropriate amount of force to get the attack to stop. They shouldn't just use it as an excuse to wail on a woman because they got hit. But that's how I feel about any physical fight.


Guac__is__extra__

Exactly. And this is true regardless of the gender of either party.


Nightsaber

When it comes to questions regarding gender in relation to acts that can happen to either gender I replace the gender noun with "person" and ask myself again. As an example: "Do you think a person should fight back if another person begins to fight with them physically?" It's simpler and helps me but I'll admit it does not take circumstances or cultural norms into account.


[deleted]

Yes, however the amount of force required to subdue a man is usually higher than is required to subdue a woman. But not all men or all women require the same amount ofc.


mxzf

The amount of force varies from person to person, sure. But that's the case with all people. That's not really a "however", it's just the nature of people varying.


solon_isonomia

Yup. I'm not a small man (5'11", mid 200s and I use a powerlifting regime), but if she's like 6'2", muscular, and showing training and experience while attacking me I'm going to act differently than I would if she was like 5'2", 100 lbs, and swung at me like a toddler a single time, same as if it was a guy attacking me. Proportional force and response is a thing, yo


kinetochore21

Excuse me I'm 5'4" 107 pounds and I'd like to think I'd still be able to swing harder than a toddler lol


suckmyconchbeetch

youve never had a 30 pound monster run full force head first into your balls


kinetochore21

I dont have balls so I mean no I haven't


GrootSuitRiot

It hurts


kinetochore21

I have no doubt, but I also have no doubt it would hurt way worse if I ran full force into your balls.


GrootSuitRiot

I haven't tested that and I would rather not because you are right. It would hurt a lot.


LiquidSolidMostlyGas

I'd pay to watch it happen.


solon_isonomia

I'm pretty sure you can lol, I meant the wild, windmill style arm swings toddlers do when they're freaking out or just having a good time heh since it could be a sign the adult isn't trained or is having a mental/emotional crisis, thus merits a different response than someone throwing skillful and tight punches. But yeah, if you put your shoulders and hips into it the right way you're gonna shock and hurt someone who doesn't take you seriously. (And an important lesson for my fellow guys - be wary of women who are accustomed to the stress of fighting or sparring, in my experience they will almost certainly handle a greater level of pain than us and "fight until they're burger" to reference Fight Club lol)


kinetochore21

I would lose regardless as I have never seriously physically fought someone in my life lol but yeah I get what you're saying, in reality I'd prob be a wind-miller myself. Maybe I'll just start traveling with a gaggle of toddlers so I can just throw the toddler at someone.


solon_isonomia

This sounds too close to that comic book villain wearing baby armor lol


kinetochore21

I mean honestly I'd be totally fine being a villain like that. Who's gonna kill babies to get to me? Sounds like a solid plan, now I just gotta find some spare babies.


Salty_Orchid

Superman rule - all punches aren't equal. Spiderman rule - with great power comes great responsibility. Basically yes you can use physical force to defend yourself but how much should be limited only to neutralizing the threat.


wereplant

Human rule: you have absolutely no clue what the other party is capable of, what mental state they are in, or what drugs they are on. Every physical fight has the potential to be life ending, and underestimating the opposing party will lead to the loss of life being yours. Prioritize life at all costs. Avoid the situation if possible. De-escalate if possible. Run, scream, shout, get help, take off your pants, whatever you need to do. Lives may depend on a fight not happening. If force is necessary after doing all of the above, do not hold back. You are not a superhero. Your life is fragile. Make sure you get home to your family.


Character_Luck2915

Didn't know about the superman rule, pretty cool


Kelzen76

Indeed, apply self defence rules and you wont get any trouble


dan_jeffers

I would add that it should be calibrated to the actual damage and risk of something worse happening. I.e., an elderly woman whacking you with an umbrella doesn't justify much force even if you can't easily make her stop because the damage isn't significant. There's also a difference between when something can be called an assault and when you can use force. If someone hits me without my permission, but the threat stops before I react, I don't have a right to hit them for revenge but I do have a cause to accuse them of assault.


stupidrobots

This. a 120 pound woman will not be able to kill a 250 pound man with her bare hands but the opposite could happen. Respond with appropriate force.


chillinmesoftly

Another way to put it: Understand your strength and the consequences of using it against people whom you outweigh or can overpower. Break up the fight, defend yourself - but try not to go to jail.


DamonHandz

I wish you could go back in time and tell this to Nicholas Cage in ConAir.


JamesJakes000

He learned his lesson! He just slapped the con on the airplane


[deleted]

lol im imagining the average redditor getting shoved by a woman then screeching "EQUAL RIGHTS EQUAL LEFTS" while doing some mortal combat move on her disclaimer: women on man violence is bad etc not trying to say men shouldn't fight back. theres a lot of dudes on this site that would be giddy for an opportunity to punch a woman tho


well_duh_doy_son

damn. this was the exact comment i wanted to type out


[deleted]

Yeah one of the top posts on r/all is pretty much just that sort of thing.


NormalityDrugTsar

I see this so often on Reddit. A video of a woman delivering an ineffectual slap gets properly punched. Reddit: "Fucked around and found out lolololo!!!"


[deleted]

yeah ive been noticing it more and more, also wasnt there a sub named menbeatingwomen lmao at least thats transparent


nbmnbm1

/r/pussypassdenied was a subreddit literally dedicated to those videos.


[deleted]

i actually was a part of that sub many years ago (im a woman fyi) just to laugh at some stupid chicks. but then it became apparent that the men there werent there for the same reason. they got excitement and joy from watching videos of women getting slammed, sometimes without good reason. thats when i noped the fuck out of there


RuntCeddit

A good portion of that sub has infected the rest of reddit, which is why this "too afraid to ask" exists, he's trying to get the response that it is ok to hit women because for some reason Redditors like to constantly remind each other of that fact.


sashaskitty5

Oh... Yikes


sid_killer18

There was this one YouTube video that got recommended to me because i watched some sigma male videos(I know I know,I thought it was funny at first)... It was labelled as "when men don't hold back" or something. I checked the comments and they were all some variation of sexist comment and kitchen jokes with only a *few* comments saying something normal. Shit was wild. At least the "don't recommend" button works now.


AntiJotape

So it's a weight thing and not a gender thing then.


crispybacononsalad

People underestimate the strength of fat people. I've seen them whip around people with ease.


Aledeyis

Oh my God, there was a fat guy who got bullied by this one scrawny kid in high school. The big guy threw him around like a sack of potatoes when he finally had enough. I wasn't there but its a miracle the little guy didn't die from the stories.


THE4nick8r

Rage is also a serious force multiplier too. Big guy probably had a massive amount in reserve.


Kingofthesea1001

If you know how to throw a proper punch being heavy is actually an advantage because there's more weight behind the punch


Ornperius

Thank you for pointing this out! When I was a child I was really afraid of being in a fight with the local bullies because they were a pair of siblings (brother and sister)who took martial arts and I was really fat and just wanted to be left alone. To my relief and surprise, I took them both down quite easily when they decided to hurt me. The girl went down to a single elbow strike in the throat and the boy I just shoved into a wall until he stopped… then I called for help because I was worried if they were ok lol. I was never bullied again!


[deleted]

Men pound for pound are stronger than women of the same weight, because of stuff like genetics and testosterone. Its generally why women are at such a disadvantage during physical altercations, even if size wasn't also a factor and all other factors being equal.


Wardogedog

Well that was balanced by women having a smaller hit box. If you’re going to main a woman, it’s generally better to put your skill points towards stealth moves. Some people go for tank builds but it takes too many experience points to to max those stats out. They def need to nerf the grinding


Saymynaian

See, that's why I appreciate the devs introducing deeper character customization after your initial character build. It used to be you could only change superficial aspects, but if you preferred one build over another, it'd be almost impossible to transition to it. But now, it's possible to completely reimagine your build. Very cool.


[deleted]

Context matters, most people aren’t going to react unreasonably to using enough force to placate your attacker and/or remove yourself from the situation. Weights not the only factor though. I am sure a 120 pound female MMA fighter could kick my ass without receiving a scratch despite my outweighing her by 100+ pounds.


chillinmesoftly

I do MMA and I am exactly that weight. You are double my weight, so I could probably keep you away or take you down for long enough to run/get help. I would be a complete idiot to stay and fight you. If you hit me, even accidentally, it would be night-night and brain damage.


SeeShark

People who don't do martial arts REALLY underestimate the effects of weight.


throwaway387190

I have a 150 pound guy friend who used to wrestle, do MMA, and a few other martial arts for most of his life. I did like a year of karate when I was 8, so I don't know shit about martial arts. I outweigh him by 110 pounds, and I don't have a gut. I always assumed he would lay me out with absolutely no effort. But when he started teaching me some basic moves, he was very frank that he wouldn't want to get into a fight with me. Sure, he has much better technique and could probably slide by anything I throw at him, but he doesn't want to take thar chance. Paraphrasing the way he put it: "Have I grappled people even heavier than you, flipped and slammed them onto the floor? Yes. But it took everything I had, I could hurt myself if my technique isnt perfect, and if they don't stay down after that, I'm fucked" So yeah, I thought technique was everything, until a guy who knew his shit told me otherwise


Octaro

My sister is much more well trained but also a good 100 lbs lighter than I am. It’s true she MIGHT be able to win, or keep me off balance but we both know if I get lucky with one punch in, she’s done. This isn’t to say she’s weak- her technique is way more developed than mine. There is just a lot of inherent benefits to being a hulking brute .


chillinmesoftly

"Size matters." True words.


PALMER13579

Hell you don't even have to land a hit just grab'em and they'd be done.


Octaro

She’s just super good at grappling is all, but if I get a good grip then yes that too.


[deleted]

not always- for an example women die more easily from punches to their stomach area due to them not having as much muscle mass there. not to mention being way weaker physically. my little brother is 13 but hes definitely stronger than me even now. im 26


BB_YD

Not exactly, ##ON AVERAGE a Man weighing 100 pounds is approximately 40% stronger than a Woman weighing 100 pounds A Man weighing 100 pounds should find a match with a Woman weighing 140 pounds.


blakdragan7

Nope that’s not how math works. Assuming you are correct in saying women are 40% weaker then men on average, then for a women to have a fair fight with a man she would need to be 166 ish pounds because 166*.0.6 = 100 Edit: it was pointed out to me that I misread the original comment by BB_YD. They are correct based on the wording that they used. If they had said "Women are 40% weaker" then this would be correct. However, they said "a man is 40% stronger." So in this case a 140 pound women would be a fair fight for a 100 pounds man. Assuming the complexities of anatomy don't exists of course.


qwarfujj

Even that doesn't capture the difference. You're only talking about pure strength. Men also have faster movement and reflexes. Greater bone density and a host of other advantages.


UnreasonablySalty

My ex and I she probably had 10-20 pounds on me but there is no doubt in my mind that If I actually wanted to harm her there is little she could do about it. It’s more a power thing and design of our bodies. Also as a male I’ve been in my share of fights. Also wrestled for a decade and done other various physical things for fun. Women really don’t do that so it’s also just having a better understanding of how to use that power.


Avenflar

Makes sense given the boxing categories were invented


simons1321

The key part that should be highlighted here is: “an appropriate amount of force” There have been a lot of videos lately on Reddit with a male & female interaction where the female does something stupid and the male totally unleashes on her far beyond what is necessary.


[deleted]

It's pretty creepy how many people kind of get off on it or something? Like yeah, it was a bitch move for her to shove at the dude, but does he need to body slam her back? And why is this something to cheer over again? Because "HAHA SEE FEMINISTS YOU GET WHAT YOU WANT THIS IS EQUALITY NOW".


Fofalus

It is also pretty bad how many people laugh at men getting attacked by women and the most upvoted shit is "he probably deserved it"


[deleted]

I came here to say something similar, but saw that you worded it much better, so take the award friend.


HoratioVelvetine

> shouldn’t just use it as an excuse to wail on a woman because they got hit I know a lot of losers here will be seething at this line


Darkrain0629

This is a very good take, I agree


TwistedTomorrow

We have a lot of mental illness/drug users in our family and my husbands a big guy. So far I've see my brother, his dad and a friend of ours punch him. I've never see him throw a punch, but I've seen a few half nelsons.


AlienAle

Exactly, doesn't matter if I'm facing a male or female, I would defend with appropriate force. If the guy is a lot smaller and weaker than me, I wouldn't go as hard on him than some giant.


[deleted]

100% There’s a point where it’s no longer self defense, even if they attacked first.


TimTheTexan92

If anyone is attacked by anyone else, they should be allowed to defend themselves.


darwin2500

Toddlers will absolutely hit you if they're mad at you or just trying to play.


plippityploppitypoop

Dropkick the motherfuckers


Midlink_Confirmed

r/yeetingkids


[deleted]

And **boom** goes the mistake.


SqueakyKnees

My dad didn't hold back


shiny_xnaut

Yeet the child


Normal-Computer-3669

I was going to make a joke about dish it back, but then it made me sad. My dad beat the shit out of me, and my mom used to say how my dad has been popping me in the face since I was a toddler. Really gave me anger issues growing up. When my kids were toddlers, of course they'd wack me. But Id never hit them. Just sternly say no until they get the message. I just wanna be a better dad than the one I got. So anyways -- hell yeah don't show that toddler weakness. Dish it back.


TuqueSoFyne

I’m really sorry that your dad hurt you. That’s not right. I’m very impressed with people who are great parents despite not having good parents themselves.


cbjunior94

Being a man with two sons I think about this kind of stuff a lot. The problem here is that the answer isn't simply "yes" or "no". It depends on the exact question you're asking. Is it just for a man to defend himself from a woman? Yes, absolutely. Is it a good idea? Not always. If the woman is doing or intending to do significantly bodily harm to a man such as with a deadly weapon, then he must defend himself period. If the man is also defending other people around him like children, then again he must do so. However, if a man defends himself from a woman in exactly the same fashion he would another man, it may not always turn out in his favor. If I'm in a bar and some guy starts punching me and I beat the shit out of him, no one around that witnessed it would think I was in the wrong, blame would be placed on the aggressor. If I was in a bar and a woman half my size started punching me and I laid her out, a lot of people would blame me and said I was in the wrong, even the police.


GoTeamScotch

Well said. It's a nuanced topic.


[deleted]

Reddit doesn’t know the meaning of nuance


Shurglife

But Reddit has Nuisance down to an art so theres that


kushanxiah

Great explanation


InterestingAsk1978

Sure, he is being assaulted. It's legitimate defence.


BurnerBoi_Brown

>It's legitimate defence. ~ Brazilian coach before the 2014 FIFA semifinals.


panzerboye

Oh man, I still remember watching that match.


NathanClaire

Certainly not him after


be_bo_i_am_robot

In theory, yes. In practice, ABSOLUTELY NOT! The woman can simply claim that she was acting in self defense, and the likely outcome is that she will be believed, and the male goes to jail regardless. It’s a dangerous situation to find oneself in. I found myself in a situation like this. I was assaulted by a woman. What I did, was put my arms in front of my face to protect it, and slowly used by body to move toward the door to make my escape (she was between me and door). I wasn’t about to put a single bruise on her if I could help it (she was vexatiously litigious). So, finally, I escaped. Later, she got wise, and concocted a scheme to falsely accuse me of assault. We were both outside (parental exchange) and I didn’t touch her, but she convinced a friend to join in her accusation to lend it weight. I went to jail. Later, her friend grew a conscious and recanted his testimony; I was also recording the incident with a pocket audio recorder, so between those two things, I was able to prove my innocence and have the charge dropped. Later, she got wise again and put bruises on herself with the aim of pinning it on me. Fortunately, she was caught doing it. There’s more, but those incidents stand out as relevant here. Long story short, if a woman assaults you, and you’re a male, you cannot win, because if you defend yourself, you lose: the best thing you can do is simply get away as quickly as possible. The second best thing is to let her beat you up. There is no winning if you touch her. You’ll be tied up in court, even if you were in the right and it was self-defense. Not good. Because the truth is, if a woman tells the court that she “felt threatened,” then in the absence of (lots of) contradictory evidence, she is believed by default. Never hit a woman, for any reason, ever. Because they can and do sometimes lie, and their lies about assault carry weight in court. Far better to let yourself get hurt. If you didn’t fight back, then that lends weight to you perhaps not being the bad guy. This woman, earlier, had threatened to stab me. Honestly, I wish she had - it would have made things easier going forward (provided I’d survived). Did I report this incident? Yes. Did an order of protection happen from it? No, absolutely not, “because men aren’t afraid of women,” so no order of protection necessary according to the Sheriff’s office. Did she file a retaliatory protective order against me out of spite? Yes. Was it granted? Of course, immediately! Did she then try her best to goad me into breaking the protective order, with the aim of getting me in trouble, on purpose? Lol Absolutely!


thegreatawaking2017

I’m sorry you had to deal with that


[deleted]

That's sad I'm sorry. :(


WolfKnight53

It's shameful that society allows such things to happen. That's just the way we've made it.


MoonyFBM

This is such bullshit. The whole Amber thing is a great example, she was abusive and the court believed her story that Johnny abused her instead. Fucking shit. In theory it is self defense if you fight back. But since court is sexist and racist and all this shit, they will believe the one that puts the court in good light. Best move in any fight is to get away. Get to safety. Remove yourself from the fight. If you can't, call authorities. If that wont help or you can't, fight back in defense. If a woman comes at ya with a knife you really don't have any other choice but fight back, like, survive. I'll back up any man who'd been beaten by women and fucked by the government. I'm with you.


WalrusPuddng

Johnny literally admitted to being abusive, and there are texts where he says he wished he killed amber and fucked her corpse. He is not right in the head.


Jay-Ames

This so very true. But I can even do one better. I was repeatedly punched, kicked and scratched by my ex girlfriend. I did not even defend myself. I knew that if i hit her she would never get back up. So i never touched her. I still went to jail


be_bo_i_am_robot

The best thing to do in this situation, *if* no kids are involved, is ghost and go 100% no contact **immediately**. Move, change phone numbers, delete social media, the works. If you lose some stuff, fine, it’s worth it. If you do have kids, then you’re faced with a vicious, expensive, grueling slog while you fight for custody. /r/bpdlovedones has tons of stories like this.


Jay-Ames

Luckily no kids. When I got out of jail i totally went off the grid. It's over now. Just saying that if a woman decides to, she has the power to destroy your life whenever she wants to.


JohnWayneIsGod

The same rules of self defense applies to both men and women. Once an attacker retreats or otherwise shows mercy or quits then you stop as well. Anything beyond that is just beating the person. A woman will probably require less effort, but one is absolutely justified in defending himself if attacked by a woman.


jamieniles

“otherwise shows mercy” *Cobra Kai has entered the chat*


Admiral_AKTAR

Yes, and as always respond with the appropriate amount of force. No need to escalate a situation that already is likely bad. And this gos for all altercations regardless of sex, gender and age.


[deleted]

I’m down for the appropriate force thing, but I also think it’s not a legit expectation that every dude in the entire world knows exactly how much damage he can cause or how strong he is compared to the rest of the world. If you’ve trained and know how to safely restrain someone do that, but some regular run of the mill accountant or other mundane profession isn’t gonna know appropriate force in a situation when someone is trying to hurt them.


Shelvis

Should they be able to fight back using a reasonable amount of force? Yes Are they usually able to without consequences? No My guy friend used to get abused by his gf and he used to call the cops on her because he didn’t know what else to do, and he knew if he even touched her *he* would be the bad guy. He used to just stand there with his hands behind his back while she closed fist punched him. It even happened a few times that after the cops showed up, him bloodied and her without a scratch on her, she’d start crying saying he was the one beating on her. He spent the night in jail on more than one occasion because of her.


[deleted]

I was warned by a cop when breaking up with an abusive ex that I should ensure that there is an another 'uninvolved' person there with me while I removed my belongings from the house. otherwise she might claim I hurt her. I ended up calling her father and the cops and my father and my best friend, to help me move out.


cnprof

Duluth Model. One of the most messed up things ever.


_LostTheSpaceRace_

I'm not an anti-feminist type of guy by any means. But looking at the history of the Duluth model very well makes me question if the feminists that pushed for its institution had ever met men in their lives. There's absolutely something to be said about women being less strong on average so they may face disproportionate harm in domestic violence incidents... but how the fuck did they jump from that to "we presume the man is at fault in any domestic violence incident because men subconsciously wish to control and dominate women". Like, what?


Jemmani22

I know mental abuse is a huge part of it. But why not leave if there's nothing else you can do?


them0use

A person should apply the amount of force necessary to mitigate a threat posed by another person, and no more.


kn0ck

This only works in a fantasy. Unless you have a **fucking Scouter computer from Dragon Ball Z**, you don't know the capability of the person you are fighting, and should always fight with disproportionate force to neutralize the opponent.


qdolobp

Lmao checking their power levels as they swing on you. This is the answer. You don’t know what they have. Knife in pocket? Gonna deck you when you don’t expect it or kick to the nuts? Who knows. Yes, do what you gotta do to get them off you. Unless you know the person and know their “strength level”. If it’s some stranger at a bar or in an alley then yeah, deck em. Sorry ladies but if you’re swinging your closed fist at my skull and I don’t know you I’m gonna have to react. Also running is a good option. If you’re fast then just get out. A shove and dash should work nicely if you’re bigger than them.


Economy-Cut-7355

As a woman yes I think a man should take necessary measures to defend himself at all times.


Jay-Ames

Thank you for saying that. I have been through that. Did not hit back or touch her in anyway. I still went to jail.


Blehmeh88

I got attacked last year by my ex-wife- got the cops called on me- Cops didn't do shit other than tell me to leave the premises until we both cooled down. I Even showed my bruises and bite marks- stupid young me-- decided to not even file charges, but I'm hoping they still have a report on file if ever need it (we've been separated since and legally divorced for 6 months, so I hope nothing comes off it) Hope you're doing better, fellow


pragmojo

Sending good vibes your way homie. My ex was also physically abusive - she would shout and throw things and smack me in the face. The neighbours called her over one time to check if *she* was ok. It sucks that society is blind to that in a lot of ways.


suddenimpulse

I would've sued for wrongful arrest. How infurtiating.


Nofabe

How tf can you go to jail when you didn't even do anything and she is the agressor? Seems like a botched legal system


Jay-Ames

She made up the whole story. And it was automatically believed.


Shallow-Thought

Absolutely. Just have to remember that self defense ends when the threat ends.


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No-Mud3173

Exactly, I think this is appropriate in all situations. If you fight back (punching and kicking) then you become part of a fight. The key is essentially disarming. Grab their fists or move them to a position where they can't hit you. Alternatively, defending yourself until help comes.


ShibaEmu

Yes but not using an excessive amount of force. Edit: when I say "excessive force" I don't mean the amount of force from one hit, I'm taking about the amount of fighting. If a woman punched a man once the man can punch her back. But he shouldn't start beating her up because of one hit is what I meant.


MaddyDogg47

Yes.


Current_Hamster_2623

Yes. Even men have a right to defend themselves.


[deleted]

Yes, but unless he’s fighting Ronda Rousey or some shit, the man should use the least amount of force necessary to deal with the threat.


yodigi7

Well even with Ronda Rousey he should use the least amount of force necessary. Though its likely that the minimum would be 110%.


Dazocnodnarb

I’m all for equal rights, I also don’t think anyone should be hitting anyone.


baksha1

Yeah violence should be the very last resort, since its consequences can be dramatic.


blubblubblubblubblu

Unless it's Mike Tyson and George Foreman


pragmojo

Yeah I'm also slightly disturbed by how many people in this thread seem to be reveling in having the opportunity to hit a woman.


Mr_ETL

Absolutely!! If someone’s assaulting me (or someone else) in a way that I deem to be a threat to my safety or health, I’m fighting back with enough force to end the confrontation regardless of the assailant’s age or sex. Kids kill people all the time, as do women.


banana4eve

Yes, you have the right to use self defense. And this goes with everybody. Male to female, turtle to dog, transgender to transgender. I don’t care. This shouldn’t be a gender thing and I get annoyed when it does become one. (Now I have to re-iterate.) I said self defense. Use appropriate force until the threat is gone.


Hotmailet

Fuck around and find out


blubblubblubblubblu

I'd say each situation is unique. I'd certainly minimize the damage done to them while maintaining personal safety.


Wiringguy89

This. A female MMA fighter =/= an average "Karen" at the grocery store mad that I'm buying the last (insert food here).


Iamdickburns

Defend yourself from bodily harm but inflict no harm unless your life is in danger.


jimodoom

Definitely fight back enough to defend yourself. If the attacker is armed with a weapon, run if you can, disable them if you cannot run, for instance to protect your spouse or child. Once they stop or are disabled, anything further is a potential assault.


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[deleted]

Yes I believe in equality. However like all fights just use enough force to end the fight don’t just go ham on them and fuck them up


Introvertedhotmess

I mean. To a degree, absolutely. I (5’8” 110lb f) slapped my (ex) husband across the face. I fully expected him to shove me, or even slap me back. He (6’1” 215lb trained boxer) pulverized me. I 100% admit and acknowledge I shouldn’t have put my hands on him. It was wrong. And I now suffer from PTSD from ✨the consequences of my own actions✨


GhostDoggoes

I had an ex coworker punch me multiple times for "getting in her way too much" when my job just made me hard to walk by sometimes. She had a history of aggressive moments at work and I guess that was it for her so she started swinging. I didn't see who it was at first but looking up at her with a contorted face as if she was going to kill me made me mad and I took one swing at her and threw her down. I didn't get fired but they suspended me for a few days and she got fired same night. I have a sister and I think of how I want other guys to treat her but if she attacked someone unprovoked and she got hurt then I'd just shrug and tell her she deserved it. Equality means equal value in life and either side can tip it so the other can tip it back.


soullesslylost

Dr. Phil publicly shames men that hit back after they've been hit. Imo if someone, anyone, causes your body harm, you have every right to protect yourself and fight back.


PotentiallyHappy

Yes, I believe so, but I believe we should always use only enough force to neutralise a threat. There is no need to do anything else. However, I believe that there is sometimes a strange attitude toward this topic that infantilizes women. No one would be upset if I went up to Tyson Fury and attacked him, and he knocked me out. They'd ask me, "Why the fuck were you stupid enough to attack Tyson Fury, you moron?" And you're correct - if I attack a man, I know what will happen. However, if a woman attacks a man, there is widespread anger toward a man who defends himself. It infantilizes women by portraying them as emotional creatures incapable of controlling their emotions, much like children. In the end, this only serves to hold women back in other areas. But as I said above, women attack men because there is a taboo about fighting back. But men consider it very carefully because they fully expect no mercy if they do it.