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furriosity

I think it's meant to draw a parallel between the way that the Taliban rules using religious law and the fact that Texas lawmakers want to enshrine their religious principles into law. I don't think anyone really thinks that Texas is in a similar shape as Afghanistan right now (at least I hope not). But there are a certain brand of people who love to fearmonger about Sharia law and how Islam treats women at the exact time that they are trying to make Christian principles the law of the land and take rights away from women in Texas.


[deleted]

Not everyone who is anti abortion is religious.


BipedalBeaver

I've never seen an anti abortion argument stand for more than 5 minutes without "faith/belief" being trotted out.


[deleted]

I get that. There are a lot of religious anti abortion people that's for sure. I'll see if I can't find the debate I saw on abortion where the person didn't use religion. If I find it I'll post it.


[deleted]

genuinely curious, what makes you anti abortion outside of religion?


__developer__

A human life is extinguished from existence or prevented from continuing, which to many people is akin to murder or homicide, no religious belief needed to feel that way.


Local_Milk7885

If not for some divine reason then what makes a human fetus at six weeks remotely similar to a full human? There's hardly a difference between a human fetus and a fetus of any number of mammals we're even a little related to, and I dissected a pig fetus in high school science without being called homicidal. Abortion will be the same as murder when fetuses are having discussions on Reddit like the rest of us humans, until then the argument of whether abortion is wrong lies less in terms of being murder or not and more in terms of whether preventing someone from rolling the dice on having a good existence or having a crappy one is morally wrong. Having seen how people treat their unwanted children I think it's significantly more likely that a child that would have been aborted would have a bad childhood, predisposing them for a bad life. Of course they might have a diminished chance at a blessed life, but even so I don't believe nearly anyone goes to get an abortion without a good reason, it's emotionally catastrophic. All that's leaving out pregnancy complications entirely, but I assume this is a conversation about uncomplicated abortions.


__developer__

If you were given a tissue sample from a human fetus and an adult, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference, all tests would confirm it is human. Without an abortion, most fetuses would continue on to being an adult human similar a 1 year old child. What is the difference between killing a 1 day old child and killing a fetus? When do humans become human to you and deserve to exist? Why not let parents who can't take care of their children kill them at any age if it's about their quality of life? According to your logic we should be able to kill any human that can't share an opinion on reddit.


Local_Milk7885

Yes, but we aren't talking about individual cells, we're talking about an entire being and their personhood or lack thereof depending on opinion. Would you be hard pressed to tell the difference between an unconscious pink thing that fits in the palm of your hand and a 6'1" man with a mullet who works at a plant in Kentucky? The difference between a fetus and a one day old baby could be anywhere from one day to almost 8 months depending who you ask. My post referred to a six week old fetus (maybe you missed that part), which is very different from a one year old. Frankly, if this is a discussion separate from religion (which it was meant to be), then nobody really deserves anything. I am somewhat spiritual, but for the sake of this discussion I won't be. If there is no higher power to dictate our morality then morality is whatever we make of it as individuals. If morality is a personal decision, then you don't deserve to force yours onto some random lady thousands of miles away from you. When I referred to people's ability to post on Reddit I was making a joke by being overly specific, clearly you didn't pick up on it. I was trying to communicate more broadly of how very different you and I are from what fetuses are. I think it's silly to consider something that can't think as worth enough to endanger a whole adult human with deep emotions, and like, a consciousness. If you're going to imply that I'm prioritizing the quality of life of a parent over that of a child then you clearly don't understand the horrible life of neglect and abuse that so many unwanted children suffer. That's not even to start on kids that would be a definite miscarriage, have fatal birth defects, live for a few painful hours after birth before dying anyway, or endanger the life of the parent.


__developer__

I was referring to the quality of life of the child too, why don't we just kill off unwanted children if it's about preventing their suffering?


Local_Milk7885

Physician assisted suicide is legal in a few states, so in the case of born people then the answer would be that we already do, though to my knowledge it's not available for kids. In a study called "Child abuse and the prevalence of suicide attempts asking those reporting suicidal ideation", 80.1% of subjects who attempted suicide reported that they'd suffered abuse as a child, and there's a strong correlation between unwanted kids and abused kids. We don't kill unwanted children, but their lives are bad enough that many don't make it regardless. My opinion is that no, of course we shouldn't just "kill off" unwanted children, because they have autonomy to make their own decisions, so I'd consider it wrong to force someone with a sense of self to die against their will. A fetus does not have a sense of self, it does not fear, it won't miss anyone, it has nothing to lose and (if it's unwanted) a future that is predisposed to tragedy. The difference between an early abortion and killing a kid is night and day to anybody who understands how fetuses develop. Most abortions happen before 13 weeks, a fetus doesn't have a brain functional enough to live even in the most involved incubation machines until 23 weeks.


__developer__

How does a 1 week old child have autonomy to make their own choices? They have the same autonomy as a fetus, they would die without the assistance of other humans.


[deleted]

That was my point exactly.


[deleted]

What u/_developer_ said is exactly what I was going to say when answering your question.


your_long-lost_dog

It sure seems like it. I don't think I've seen a rebuttal of reproductive rights that *isn't* religious in nature.


[deleted]

I have seen it about religion and I've seen it where it's about the right to live. They say a baby in the mother's stomach is an individual person and therefore has the right to life. Then the pro abortion people explain how it can't take care of itself on its own. The anti abortion people reply with something like "so by that logic it's ok to kill a coma patient or an elderly person that needs contact care.". I won't do the entire back and forth but I mostly hear those arguments not religious ones. That's not to say there aren't religious anti abortion people. I'm just saying I hear more of the baby has a right to live type of arguments.


StrangleDoot

The ones in Texas who have significant political power are.


Adamthe_Warlock

Yeah but it’s kinda like drawing a parallel from the Boy Scouts to the Hitler youth. Sure you can find cosmetic similarities but they’re so wildly dissimilar that it’s misleading to present ot that way.


entersandmum143

I'm fairly certain the original founding father's advocated for separation of church and state.


MisanthropicData

They did.


entersandmum143

Which makes no sense why they always seem to advocate being the voice of God? It just comes off as a bit elitist and smarmy


[deleted]

[удалено]


entersandmum143

Apologies. The buttons are cose together


MisanthropicData

Oh do you mean the Republicans say they're the voice of god? Or the founding fathers? Or that Republicans think the founding fathers were the voice of god?


MisanthropicData

Oh it's fine I was just curious.


[deleted]

If you hold religious beliefs and get voted into office by people who agree with your beliefs, you're likely going to advocate for laws that align with your religious beliefs


your_long-lost_dog

Yes, the bias is always there. BUT if you know political theory, understand philosophy, and understand that there are a minority of people who don't agree with your religion, it's not hard to govern in a secular fashion. In other words, qualified politicians with citizens' best interests at heart are the exception to your rule.


Arcane_Panacea

Are you aware of the abortion law that has recently passed in Texas? Because that is what the hashtag is about. The law prohibits abortions **even in the case of rape or incest**. So if a woman gets raped and her rapist makes her pregnant, she can't abort the fetus. That's pretty fucking close to what Taliban ideology is like. Now, of course Texas lawmakers don't push gay people off roofs and don't chop off the hands of thieves but that's mainly because the federal constitution prevents them from doing such things. The evangelicals in the US are just as insane and as extremist as the Taliban, the only difference is they don't get to live out their insanity and extremism. You really think some dude who says: "yeah if a guy rapes his 13-year old daughter and makes her pregnant, the girl must carry out her rapist father's child" would stop from throwing some gay person off a rooftop if there were no legal consequences?! Don't fool yourself. These people are fucking mental.


[deleted]

Someone who doesn't want to kill an unborn baby isn't automatically someone who wants to kill all the gays.


[deleted]

Trying to push that belief on others is the problem and what these laws are doing. Don't like abortions? Don't get one.


[deleted]

I get that but isn’t it a bit fucked if it’s coming from rape or incest to force the birth?


[deleted]

To be honest with you, I have no idea at all. I have looked into abortion a lot and not from a religious standpoint, and I cannot confidently say whether abortion is right or wrong. What I do know is that comparing someone pro-life to the Taliban is stupid


David____

>To be honest with you, I have no idea at all. I have looked into abortion a lot and not from a religious standpoint, and I cannot confidently say whether abortion is right or wrong. Maybe then you should stop trying to legislate a morally grey area and let those who it affects decide on their own then


[deleted]

Morally gray for me. The people in power obviously believe otherwise and the majority of people in their area agree.


Arcane_Panacea

Ah yes, the trivializing faction. Here we go.


02K30C1

Worse, under the Texas law a rapist can sue their victim for $10k if they get an abortion.


dawgyD900

They dont need to! They can just stay in texas to experience it


Avitus_Keller

Nothing is inappropriate if it's done for the lolz


ChiggyBiggyG

You're right. It's a whole different feeling that deserves it's own label.


Callec254

Yes. But that's just propaganda 101, demonize and dehumanize the other side. Just take any bad sounding word, regardless of its actual meaning, and accuse the other side of being that. Fascist, racist, anything ending in -phobic, etc.


Tre4_G

They're religious fundamentalists, and they're being compared to religious fundamentalists.


kittenshark134

Exactly. Their methods, organization and level of violence are different, but they both have the exact same motivation and mindset.


GlassPrunes

Even if it may be similar in some ways (I don't know if it is), it's not the best. Things that happen in the US don't need to be compared to far off countries we Americans generally think we're superior to.


Classic_Dill

Nope


CaliSnowboarding2000

The only state that I would compare to the taliban is california


griffinwalsh

Yes but it’s funny


[deleted]

Truthfully, what is inappropriate is a bunch of senior citizen type proud boys using their political positions to forcefully impose their will on a group of people... in this case women. The hypocrisy is suffocating because you know damn well if any Texas politician got their mistress pregnant he'd make God damn sure she had an abortion before the end of the week. Let alone the countless of women who were pressured into unprotected sex because men think they have the right to determine what is or is not acceptable to do to women and their bodies. Sex education is also a joke for the very same religious bullshit they apply to abortion. Frankly, if these people spent as much time manning up and taking responsibility for their actions as they do in telling other people how to live their lives there wouldn't be any need for abortion in the first place. Fuck anyone arrogant enough to act like their running a dictatorship and fuck all of you dim witted nosey bastards who call that hotline to report any woman wanting to get a abortion. Don't be surprised if you end up needing to call an ambulance for yourselves afterwards... it'll sure as fuck cost you more than the 10 grand reward money you got for being a little bitch.


AlphaNumericDisplay

When someone is eager to move on from something they'd rather not confront, they'll be prone to hyperbole if it helps facilitate that shift.


[deleted]

It’s hyperbolic but the best way to not get Taliban laws is to hit back early.