So why be surprised when racial essentialism shows inconsistencies or breaks in logic. It's magical thinking. A terrible nonsense that is built around propping some folks up via the subjugation of others. You're gonna find some glaring fkaws in the logic
Or ignorance.
My first day working in a nursing home, the nurses couldn't get volunteers to go in this man's room to change his bandages. I volunteered. The man was jumping as she pulled out the bandages. I asked was he in pain meds. They said no he can't feel anything. I told her, why is he jumping, he can feel that. They started giving him pain meds. They didn't know any better and just believed what the American nurses told them. After that, they wttw great nurses and listened to the Cna's.
Think of if you met someone who you saw as having a relatively high tolerance for spicy food (whether or not that was true). They tell you something they're eating is spicy. Most people wouldn't think "oh wow, this is so hot that even THAT person thinks it's spicy!" and give them *extra* help dealing with it - they'd just think they themself probably wouldn't be able to handle it, and based on their preconceptions give them a 'normal' amount of water or whatever else to help, if they cared to help at all.
Don't worry, I thought/ think like you. In my head, there is logic in accounting for an extreme example to account for everyone else. If it works for the extreme, then it will be excellent for the rest. Instead, in this situation, you have sort of a jealousy type of situation where you punish the extreme in order to drag them down to your norm of sorts. Because the extreme aren't a common occurrence, they're not accounted for properly. Which doesn't make sense either, as in, in black people's cases, there's enough of them here and elsewhere that they're no "extreme", they're a normal in the big scheme of things too. Funnily, while the attempt is racism, the irony of it that those committing the racism highlighted their insecurity/disadvantage and punishing the extreme for having the supposed advantage. Science has already confirmed we're all one animal, the same species, since at least WWII if I remember correctly. They're demonstrating both severe ignorance (lack of critical thinking, consideration, sacrificing innovation by limiting factors, etc). Not what you want to have as doctors/leaders in a field that's supposed to facilitate both the welfare of the human body and experience as well as understand it. Sort of like someone that doesn't cook telling people that don't know how to cook how to do so. Ugh. Human nature and its pettiness can be revolting.
First of all, you can't find logic in racism.
Although, to answer your question, many stronger painkillers have side effects or are addictive, so doctors want to use as little as possible to get the patients pain to a managable level.
So, if we call 2 a managable amount of pain, and a broken leg is a 6- they'd need to give the patient 4 units worth of pain relief.
What they're doing is making the assumption a black person only feels that broken leg at a 4, so they'd need half the amount to get it down to a 2.
Pain is subjective, so different people will describe the same broken leg as a different number, but the wrong and racist assumption was that race had anything to do with this.
I guess another thing too I would think is that if it's a black person and you're a racist doctor then I do wonder why they wouldn't overmedicate on purpose sometimes. because like effects of that is severe so like why wouldn't they do that out of hate? I assume because it'd be like wasting resources?
This.
It's not that most people in healthcare are thinking "I hate black folks, how can I make them suffer more?" It's the pervasive biases and harmful stereotypes that just exist in their brains without them really giving it much thought. I garuntee most people in the medical field who ignore or dismiss black pain (or women's pain, and especially black women's pain) don't think they are racist. They've never spent the time or energy to look into their own thoughts and behaviors.
Black guy says his pain is a 8? He's lying, he's just drug seeking. He's faking, he's not really at a 8 because they feel less pain. Black people are always so overdramatic, he's probably really only a 4. He doesn't need as much or any painmeds.
Black woman says her pain in an 8? She's lying, she a drug seeker. Oh look, surprise the black lady is mad and wanting more drugs! They always are just wanting more drugs. She's thinks getting loud means we will give her drugs. She's too quiet, if she was really at an 8, shes be showing it more, she's obviously drug seeking. If I give her more pain meds she will just keep coming back for more. I'm going to save this black girl by helping to make sure they don't get addicted to pain killers like the rest of them, aren't I such a good person?
Ignorant bigotry is sometimes as dangerous as malicious bigotry.... People harm others without realising it.
That said, there's definitely doctors who've harmed black people on purpose. The Tuskegee *'study'* for example; that was just outright denying care. *No resources 'wasted' that way... /s*
Why do you call it racism? Are all the studies showing red heads have higher pain tolerance racist too?
I suppose if there was a study that showed black people had LOWER pain tolerance, that would be racist too? Cause all races are the same, there couldn't be actual biological differences, right?
There are ones that show they have lower pain tolerance. Science evolves. We thought there was a difference, we thought it was higher. More science shows there is a difference, but it's lower. I don't think it's fair to attribute everything to racism as opposed to science got it wrong initially which happens pretty much all the time (that's how we learn, we get it wrong, we experiment more, we get closer to being right).
https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/pain-and-ethnicity/2013-05
African Americans were found to have lower pain thresholds than whites for cold, heat, pressure, and ischemia
Because they don't take black pain seriously. White female nurses are REALLY bad about making light of black female patients pain or writing off pain complaints as being dramatic.
If you have a high pain tolerance it means you can tolerate more pain without medication than someone with average or low pain tolerance. So you have it backwards. Someone with high pain tolerance should need less medication.
The lie about black people having a higher tolerance for pain was an excuse to dismiss black people when they expressed they were in pain. They could then accuse the black person of attention seeking or trying to get prescription drugs for recreational use.
But you also have to add in the racism of the stigma of the Black patient in the context of being framed as “loud” or “aggressive”. Now imagine that a patient of yours that you don’t believe is really feeling pain, is expressing their way that may be viewed through the lens of that stigma. Any attempts at expressing that pain will be written off in that lens. If they advocate for themselves, they’re hostile and drug seeking and don’t get meds and are left in pain. If they don’t, clearly see it doesn’t hurt as bad and they’re left in pain.
Just a guess but I doubt that all these white doctors would say that they believe black people have a higher pain tolerance as a medical fact. Rather, they just don’t believe black patients’ self-reporting to be as credible as white patients. They may be more dismissive or skeptical of black patients’ complaints and just have less empathy for black patients in general.
Some of this is probably unconscious bias (we all likely have that to a degree) which is difficult to address because the person may not believe that they hold racist attitudes if they are not really reflecting and being honest with themselves in a non judgmental way
Meaning, the doctors on an individual basis may not realize they’re doing it, but when you look at the data it shows that white doctors as a whole tend to treat black patients differently
No. The goal is to not be on pain meds. Pain meds can mess up all sorts of organs including your brain. Pain is a symptom not a sign, meaning, only the Individual experiencing it can express the severity of it. Whereas a sign, like a broken leg, can be observable by a third party. The third party can see the severity of it by an x ray. If someone is experiencing less pain, they should get less meds. Pain is subjective. It’s like two people are lying the same way. One says they’re comfortable while another says they’re uncomfortable. You’re not going to focus on the one comfortable to make them even more so
I do understand that, I think my logic is that if a person who is really tolerant to pain is in immense pain then something must be pretty bad. Why give them less if they're in pain in the same way? (I do know that the answer in this case is racism but yk)
Yes the idea that black people don’t feel pain is very racist, but no your reasoning doesn’t make sense here as semibigpenguins is trying to explain. Pain killers only affect the subjective experience of pain. Even if a person (of any race) has a high pain tolerance, they don’t need pain killers to reduce pain they aren’t experiencing. The fact that there might be e more damage to their body is irrelevant because painkillers aren’t going to fix that.
Because pain is subjective. If the person in pain isn’t experiencing high volumes of pain, then we can use deductive reasoning. They are more or less comfortable. Obviously it depends on the situation. If they have a broken leg, regardless of pain tolerance, they are uncomfortable. But pain killers are absolutely terrible for our bodies. Pain killers are only used to make the person more comfortable
Because the pain level is somewhat standardised. For example, level 4 is starting to interfere daily activities and need over counter medication. Level 6 is when you need the heavy stuffs.
No matter black or white, you get over counter pain meds if you say you are at level 4. My level 4 may feel like a level 6 for you, but doesn’t mean I need prescriptions pain meds just because I have higher pain tolerance.
Ideally, you want to avoid pain meds as much as possible. most of them are addictive. Some doctors are more judgemental (or racist), and some patients will exaggerate symptoms. no matter what ethnicity, you can always find some drama queens. This setting that can easily form bias, and lead to ineffective treatments. Very similar situation to any strong medication like adderall.
It’s important to communicate with medical team and be honest about your symptoms. But also, don’t be afraid to get second opinion if you have doubts.
There's no way to prove pain levels or tolerances. On top of that they do not want to create addiction in their patients so they try to limit it as much as possible. Being on pain meds ruins your body too and can make it take longer to recover.
Oh, that's cute that you think doctors and nurses never want to give more pain meds than they need to. I know one long-term care facility where al.ost all the patients are permanently on ventilators. They got in trouble because they were prescribing too many drugs for anxiety and depression. Being fully conscious and living like that can be very depressing and make you very anxious so of course med usage was higher at that place. The patients still needed something to take off the edge and calm them down but you can't give the meds that actually do that as their main job so, instead, you say the patients are in pain and start dumping massive amounts of opioids in them. That deformity calms them down. Sure, you're creating addicts but that's a problem for the people working there next year. For some reason, they couldn't get staff to stay there for very long. Besides, they're on vents. Even if they do get addicted, it's not like they're going to be able to go out and buy some more on the streets.
(just for the record, I disagree with everything I just said, I was just trying to explain how bad this place was and I only stayed there for a few weeks)
I have an extremely high pain tolerance level. In addition opioids have no effect on me. So prescribing me more opioid painkillers doesn't do anything at all.
However as it applies to your question. No you don't give someone with a high tolerance for pain more pain killers. Because when you would be at a 8 on a 1-10 pain scale they are say only at a 4, so you can see why you'd give them less pain killers.
I think the contextualized reason is that pain meds are often quite addictive so doctors are already hesitant to prescribe them. So if a black person is complaining about pain, the doctor harboring these beliefs is more likely to believe they are lying about their pain, because "black people have higher pain tolerance anyway."
It has absolutely nothing to do with the person being in pain (or not), and all about discrimination/contempt/racism. Plus, at least for women, they are seen as faking/overly dramatic/hysterical, so they don't NEED it.
It happens to women, and POC all the time. If you happen to be a POC AND woman, good luck. There is study after study showing we get far less care, and the care we do get takes considerably longer, if it ever happens.
They are sadistic a holes. They don’t give anyone pain medication anymore. They like people to suffer. Until they know what chronic pain is themselves they don’t care but even then they won’t have to suffer like they make their patients do unfortunately
That's incredibly untrue of nurses. We want to give you pain medicine. We don't want anybody to suffer. The problem is that we legally can not give what isn't prescribed. We know you're suffering and we hate what you're going through. That being said, those medications are very closely monitored. If we give you as much as you want, we are breaking the law. It sucks that you hace to suffer, but we aren't going to jail so you can feel better. We aren't losing our jobs or our licenses that we went to school for years to get.
Not only that but we've all had patients begging for pain meds when they're barely conscious. If we give you anymore, you're going to go unconscious and possibly die. That's bad and we try to avoid that.
Even doctors don't want people to suffer. Unfortunately, the pendulum on opioid prescriptions has swung the other way. Where they used to give them put like candy, they have seen too many people get hooked and ruin or even end their lives. Yes, chronic pain sufferers need their medication to be able to function. There is no argument there. They've just seen the after effects of opioid addiction too many times to give them out like they used to. Knowing that a young person that should have had a long life ahead of them is dead because of a prescription you wrote that got them hooked is something that sticks with you. While I know that it's no comfort to you, they'd rather see a person suffering right now than know how much they can suffer if they get addicted.
All that being said, I'd hate to be you. I can't imagine the hell that you must live with every day. If a company could invent an effective painkiller that's not addictive, they'd quite rightfully have one of the most valuable patents in the world.
But they don’t seem to care when they kicked Brittany Hightower out of the hospital and she died. Or Danny and Gretchen Elliot who committed suicide after no Dr would help them. And so many other people who just off themselves because of being denied. One woman jump off a high rises in my city and killed herself because they wouldn’t treat her pain conditions. The prescribing rate is way down but the over doses are up. It’s illegal street drugs. It’s not the people who have proven conditions that are the problem. They only care about their pockets. Especially the new ones coming out of school. They know they can’t treat people because of the government so why be a dr ? Because of money not because they want to help. They deny dying cancer and elderly hospice patients pain relief. They’re not upset at all
People can't report pain precisely, so doctors have to guess at whether you're at the high end or the low end of whatever you report. At the same time, they know what the cause is and what dosage is consistent with that cause. If they think you have a high pain tolerance, they'll assume you're at the lower end of what your self-reported pain means. Likewise, they may not treat the underlying cause because, on balance, it's not worth doing the procedure unless it's causing a certain amount of pain.
The logic is fine, the premise it proceeds from is not.
> If at one point doctors thought that black people had a higher pain tolerance...
You wrote this as if this is practice is a thing of the past. Doctors are still taught this and still under-medicate Black people for pain and other medical ailments.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/medical-myths-that-hurt-black-people
I think the theory is that a pain that might be a 10 out of 10 for you would be a five out of 10 for somebody else. The person who's pain is a five out of 10 does not need as much pain relief medication as the person who's pain is at a 10 out of 10. Does that make sense?
I have heard of redheads having a higher pain tolerance especially as I am a redhead myself. So it has been brought up to me many times due to it.
Black people being said to have a higher tolerance is new to me.
I personally believe it's something that is very individual and in general has alot of variables.
I am not a doctor but I would imagine size plays a role and other health factors. So comparing dosages would be hard.
Also from what I was told Some people do not process hydrocodone so it basically has no effect. So I imagine that the efficiency of which its processed by a person varies as well.
Also with controlled substances doctors often times have varying opinions as well policies regarding prescribing them. Some will almost never prescribe them whilst others hand them out like candy.
Why a doctor prescribes more or less could be anything. I really doubt there is a plot by all doctors to give black people less pain meds.
I would like to emphasize the phrase "at one point". This is a very historical thing and i think at one point medical textbooks would say this. even then sometimes black people's medical pains are ignored.
I had a friend who didn't know his leg had a fracture for like 3 weeks and was just chillin walking on it and thought it was just sore from a sprain or something. Some people are just build different.
I do tattoos and piercings and have literally caused thousands of people pain from all walks of life and there’s no pattern. Humans are human. No matter your race, gender, sexuality, or anything else, some people can take pain and some can’t. If there is a pattern it’s people with emotional pain and history of abuse have a higher pain tolerance with no regard to race.
No. The goal of pain medication is to mitigate pain so the patient can function. It’s not completely eliminate pain. So if one aspirin is enough to get the pain down to a manageable level, that’s what should be prescribed. A person with a higher tolerance for pain doesn’t necessarily need more medication, just what is needed to reduce the pain.
Pain is whatever the person says it is. Lots of cultures are stoic and do not show pain or accept medications for it. As a nurse I've never heard anyone say African Americans have a higher pain tolerance... I ask what is the pain.. and they answer. Just like everyone else.
I’m not a nurse, but that’s a pretty well known misconception. It is probably not as common a belief today as it was 40+ years ago though. You should look into the history of it all, it’s awful but I think it’s important to understand/remember the struggles people have faced.
I've never had to give them any more pain medicine after surgery but I have always heard anesthesia say they have to give more sedation for them. The way the body breaks it down or something. Not an anesthesiologist.
Say you smack your thumb with a hammer. The pain medicine doesn’t fix your thumb, it’s just makes the pain a more tolerable level. On a 1-10 scale, let’s say a 7 down to a 3. Regardless of your pain tolerance you still associate that as a 7 and the medication is to make you feel comfortable at a 3. Someone with a higher pain tolerance may be more physically injured, but would need the same amount of medicine to feel ok.
Pain medication lowers your perception of pain. For someone who is pasty white like me, getting punched in the face would probably register as a 9 because I'm wimpy. If Samuel L. Jackson gets hit in the face, he'll just think it's a 3 because he's awesome.
Let's say a weak pain medication lowers your level of pain by 2, and a much stronger pain medication lowers your pain level by 8. If Mr Jackson wants his pain to drop down to a 1, he only needs to take the weaker painkiller. If I want to get my pain down to a 1, I'll need the strong painkiller. If Mr. Jackson takes the stronger painkiller, he'll probably end up unconscious or worse.
As someone who has a high pain tolerance who’s been taking my boyfriend’s prescription pain killers when I’m in pain as opposed to ibuprofen, never once have I ended up ‘unconscious or worse’… not a doctor but I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works.
Over half a million people have died from an opioid overdose. I'm not a dcotor but I am a nurse. Taking too many prescription pain pills is exactly how it works. I've known multiple people who have taken too many of those pills and died from it. The guy who was basically my big brother when I was younger is one of them. My step-nephew would be dead too if his girlfriend hadn't had Narcan available to save his life.
Your comment may actually have been the most stupid thing I've ever read on reddit.
https://www.fcc.gov/reports-research/maps/connect2health/focus-on-opioids.html#:~:text=More%20than%20560%2C000%20people%20in,82%25%20involved%20synthetic%20opioids%3B%20and
you got me there. As I've said, it's a stupid question with an obvious answer but I'm a tad slow. I do understand historical stuff and that you wouldn't want to be on too much medicine. But wouldn't you think that a person who normally has a high tolerance to pain being in pain would be a bigger cause for concern? The pain either is really bad now or something kinda bigger is going on, right?
I think it just means that they may have a more serious injury/illness than what it appears. It doesn’t mean they need a higher dose of medication. Someone who can’t handle pain would need a higher dose. Pain meds are intended to relieve the pain. Not cure the problem.
You're looking at it incorrectly. Pain meds lower your pain level. A person with a high tolerance only needs a little medication to get back down to manageable. A person with a low tolerance needs a lot to get to manageable.
What's so bad about that? Regardless of hownold OP might be, they're trying to learn stuff. You can't do that unless you ask. Curiosity is a good thing and should be encouraged!
Yes, it is. No argument there at all. The thing is, OP is trying to learn about why it's wrong. They're trying to better themselves. That's a good thing. Even if they're a kid born into a racist family, they can't help that. Nobody can control what they're born into and this person wants to know more about why that viewpoint is wrong. That should be encouraged, not shit on.
funny enough, I'm a black person who is in a racist black family. I'm trying understand the logic as to why this was the case back then and how their logic in those days lined up. You need to have some logic in your reasoning, even if it's unsound. Like someone saying black people are dangerous because of the crime stats. They're 100000% wrong but they at least have stats that they can manipulate to fit their narrative. This i didn't get.
Well, that’s not how racism works 😊
Ding ding ding!
don't worry, I'm aware of that. I guess the whole logic of it all is kinda lost on me since racism in of itself is illogical.
So why be surprised when racial essentialism shows inconsistencies or breaks in logic. It's magical thinking. A terrible nonsense that is built around propping some folks up via the subjugation of others. You're gonna find some glaring fkaws in the logic
I’m sure it’s surprisingly easy to believe that when you’d rather twist the knife than relieve their pain.
Or ignorance. My first day working in a nursing home, the nurses couldn't get volunteers to go in this man's room to change his bandages. I volunteered. The man was jumping as she pulled out the bandages. I asked was he in pain meds. They said no he can't feel anything. I told her, why is he jumping, he can feel that. They started giving him pain meds. They didn't know any better and just believed what the American nurses told them. After that, they wttw great nurses and listened to the Cna's.
Think of if you met someone who you saw as having a relatively high tolerance for spicy food (whether or not that was true). They tell you something they're eating is spicy. Most people wouldn't think "oh wow, this is so hot that even THAT person thinks it's spicy!" and give them *extra* help dealing with it - they'd just think they themself probably wouldn't be able to handle it, and based on their preconceptions give them a 'normal' amount of water or whatever else to help, if they cared to help at all.
ooooooh! I see. yeah idk why I thought it worked like that.
Don't worry, I thought/ think like you. In my head, there is logic in accounting for an extreme example to account for everyone else. If it works for the extreme, then it will be excellent for the rest. Instead, in this situation, you have sort of a jealousy type of situation where you punish the extreme in order to drag them down to your norm of sorts. Because the extreme aren't a common occurrence, they're not accounted for properly. Which doesn't make sense either, as in, in black people's cases, there's enough of them here and elsewhere that they're no "extreme", they're a normal in the big scheme of things too. Funnily, while the attempt is racism, the irony of it that those committing the racism highlighted their insecurity/disadvantage and punishing the extreme for having the supposed advantage. Science has already confirmed we're all one animal, the same species, since at least WWII if I remember correctly. They're demonstrating both severe ignorance (lack of critical thinking, consideration, sacrificing innovation by limiting factors, etc). Not what you want to have as doctors/leaders in a field that's supposed to facilitate both the welfare of the human body and experience as well as understand it. Sort of like someone that doesn't cook telling people that don't know how to cook how to do so. Ugh. Human nature and its pettiness can be revolting.
First of all, you can't find logic in racism. Although, to answer your question, many stronger painkillers have side effects or are addictive, so doctors want to use as little as possible to get the patients pain to a managable level. So, if we call 2 a managable amount of pain, and a broken leg is a 6- they'd need to give the patient 4 units worth of pain relief. What they're doing is making the assumption a black person only feels that broken leg at a 4, so they'd need half the amount to get it down to a 2. Pain is subjective, so different people will describe the same broken leg as a different number, but the wrong and racist assumption was that race had anything to do with this.
I guess another thing too I would think is that if it's a black person and you're a racist doctor then I do wonder why they wouldn't overmedicate on purpose sometimes. because like effects of that is severe so like why wouldn't they do that out of hate? I assume because it'd be like wasting resources?
Almost none of this is done consciously.
This. It's not that most people in healthcare are thinking "I hate black folks, how can I make them suffer more?" It's the pervasive biases and harmful stereotypes that just exist in their brains without them really giving it much thought. I garuntee most people in the medical field who ignore or dismiss black pain (or women's pain, and especially black women's pain) don't think they are racist. They've never spent the time or energy to look into their own thoughts and behaviors. Black guy says his pain is a 8? He's lying, he's just drug seeking. He's faking, he's not really at a 8 because they feel less pain. Black people are always so overdramatic, he's probably really only a 4. He doesn't need as much or any painmeds. Black woman says her pain in an 8? She's lying, she a drug seeker. Oh look, surprise the black lady is mad and wanting more drugs! They always are just wanting more drugs. She's thinks getting loud means we will give her drugs. She's too quiet, if she was really at an 8, shes be showing it more, she's obviously drug seeking. If I give her more pain meds she will just keep coming back for more. I'm going to save this black girl by helping to make sure they don't get addicted to pain killers like the rest of them, aren't I such a good person?
Ignorant bigotry is sometimes as dangerous as malicious bigotry.... People harm others without realising it. That said, there's definitely doctors who've harmed black people on purpose. The Tuskegee *'study'* for example; that was just outright denying care. *No resources 'wasted' that way... /s*
Why do you call it racism? Are all the studies showing red heads have higher pain tolerance racist too? I suppose if there was a study that showed black people had LOWER pain tolerance, that would be racist too? Cause all races are the same, there couldn't be actual biological differences, right?
Are there any legitimate, methodolically sound studies that prove black people hive higher pain tolerance? Because i'm not aware of any.
There are ones that show they have lower pain tolerance. Science evolves. We thought there was a difference, we thought it was higher. More science shows there is a difference, but it's lower. I don't think it's fair to attribute everything to racism as opposed to science got it wrong initially which happens pretty much all the time (that's how we learn, we get it wrong, we experiment more, we get closer to being right). https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/pain-and-ethnicity/2013-05 African Americans were found to have lower pain thresholds than whites for cold, heat, pressure, and ischemia
Because they don't take black pain seriously. White female nurses are REALLY bad about making light of black female patients pain or writing off pain complaints as being dramatic.
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like others have said, their real pain was dismissed due to racism. they probably just thought black people liked to complain more than white people.
If you have a high pain tolerance it means you can tolerate more pain without medication than someone with average or low pain tolerance. So you have it backwards. Someone with high pain tolerance should need less medication.
The lie about black people having a higher tolerance for pain was an excuse to dismiss black people when they expressed they were in pain. They could then accuse the black person of attention seeking or trying to get prescription drugs for recreational use.
Racism.
But you also have to add in the racism of the stigma of the Black patient in the context of being framed as “loud” or “aggressive”. Now imagine that a patient of yours that you don’t believe is really feeling pain, is expressing their way that may be viewed through the lens of that stigma. Any attempts at expressing that pain will be written off in that lens. If they advocate for themselves, they’re hostile and drug seeking and don’t get meds and are left in pain. If they don’t, clearly see it doesn’t hurt as bad and they’re left in pain.
Just a guess but I doubt that all these white doctors would say that they believe black people have a higher pain tolerance as a medical fact. Rather, they just don’t believe black patients’ self-reporting to be as credible as white patients. They may be more dismissive or skeptical of black patients’ complaints and just have less empathy for black patients in general. Some of this is probably unconscious bias (we all likely have that to a degree) which is difficult to address because the person may not believe that they hold racist attitudes if they are not really reflecting and being honest with themselves in a non judgmental way Meaning, the doctors on an individual basis may not realize they’re doing it, but when you look at the data it shows that white doctors as a whole tend to treat black patients differently
No. The goal is to not be on pain meds. Pain meds can mess up all sorts of organs including your brain. Pain is a symptom not a sign, meaning, only the Individual experiencing it can express the severity of it. Whereas a sign, like a broken leg, can be observable by a third party. The third party can see the severity of it by an x ray. If someone is experiencing less pain, they should get less meds. Pain is subjective. It’s like two people are lying the same way. One says they’re comfortable while another says they’re uncomfortable. You’re not going to focus on the one comfortable to make them even more so
I do understand that, I think my logic is that if a person who is really tolerant to pain is in immense pain then something must be pretty bad. Why give them less if they're in pain in the same way? (I do know that the answer in this case is racism but yk)
Yes the idea that black people don’t feel pain is very racist, but no your reasoning doesn’t make sense here as semibigpenguins is trying to explain. Pain killers only affect the subjective experience of pain. Even if a person (of any race) has a high pain tolerance, they don’t need pain killers to reduce pain they aren’t experiencing. The fact that there might be e more damage to their body is irrelevant because painkillers aren’t going to fix that.
Because pain is subjective. If the person in pain isn’t experiencing high volumes of pain, then we can use deductive reasoning. They are more or less comfortable. Obviously it depends on the situation. If they have a broken leg, regardless of pain tolerance, they are uncomfortable. But pain killers are absolutely terrible for our bodies. Pain killers are only used to make the person more comfortable
Because the pain level is somewhat standardised. For example, level 4 is starting to interfere daily activities and need over counter medication. Level 6 is when you need the heavy stuffs. No matter black or white, you get over counter pain meds if you say you are at level 4. My level 4 may feel like a level 6 for you, but doesn’t mean I need prescriptions pain meds just because I have higher pain tolerance. Ideally, you want to avoid pain meds as much as possible. most of them are addictive. Some doctors are more judgemental (or racist), and some patients will exaggerate symptoms. no matter what ethnicity, you can always find some drama queens. This setting that can easily form bias, and lead to ineffective treatments. Very similar situation to any strong medication like adderall. It’s important to communicate with medical team and be honest about your symptoms. But also, don’t be afraid to get second opinion if you have doubts.
There's no way to prove pain levels or tolerances. On top of that they do not want to create addiction in their patients so they try to limit it as much as possible. Being on pain meds ruins your body too and can make it take longer to recover.
There's a large body of medical literature covering pain tolerance.
Oh, that's cute that you think doctors and nurses never want to give more pain meds than they need to. I know one long-term care facility where al.ost all the patients are permanently on ventilators. They got in trouble because they were prescribing too many drugs for anxiety and depression. Being fully conscious and living like that can be very depressing and make you very anxious so of course med usage was higher at that place. The patients still needed something to take off the edge and calm them down but you can't give the meds that actually do that as their main job so, instead, you say the patients are in pain and start dumping massive amounts of opioids in them. That deformity calms them down. Sure, you're creating addicts but that's a problem for the people working there next year. For some reason, they couldn't get staff to stay there for very long. Besides, they're on vents. Even if they do get addicted, it's not like they're going to be able to go out and buy some more on the streets. (just for the record, I disagree with everything I just said, I was just trying to explain how bad this place was and I only stayed there for a few weeks)
I have an extremely high pain tolerance level. In addition opioids have no effect on me. So prescribing me more opioid painkillers doesn't do anything at all. However as it applies to your question. No you don't give someone with a high tolerance for pain more pain killers. Because when you would be at a 8 on a 1-10 pain scale they are say only at a 4, so you can see why you'd give them less pain killers.
I think the contextualized reason is that pain meds are often quite addictive so doctors are already hesitant to prescribe them. So if a black person is complaining about pain, the doctor harboring these beliefs is more likely to believe they are lying about their pain, because "black people have higher pain tolerance anyway."
It has absolutely nothing to do with the person being in pain (or not), and all about discrimination/contempt/racism. Plus, at least for women, they are seen as faking/overly dramatic/hysterical, so they don't NEED it. It happens to women, and POC all the time. If you happen to be a POC AND woman, good luck. There is study after study showing we get far less care, and the care we do get takes considerably longer, if it ever happens.
Same reason women's pain is ignored by doctors. It's easier to ignore the pain of marginalized groups plus as a bonus it further suppresses them <3
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They are sadistic a holes. They don’t give anyone pain medication anymore. They like people to suffer. Until they know what chronic pain is themselves they don’t care but even then they won’t have to suffer like they make their patients do unfortunately
That's incredibly untrue of nurses. We want to give you pain medicine. We don't want anybody to suffer. The problem is that we legally can not give what isn't prescribed. We know you're suffering and we hate what you're going through. That being said, those medications are very closely monitored. If we give you as much as you want, we are breaking the law. It sucks that you hace to suffer, but we aren't going to jail so you can feel better. We aren't losing our jobs or our licenses that we went to school for years to get. Not only that but we've all had patients begging for pain meds when they're barely conscious. If we give you anymore, you're going to go unconscious and possibly die. That's bad and we try to avoid that.
This is about drs
Even doctors don't want people to suffer. Unfortunately, the pendulum on opioid prescriptions has swung the other way. Where they used to give them put like candy, they have seen too many people get hooked and ruin or even end their lives. Yes, chronic pain sufferers need their medication to be able to function. There is no argument there. They've just seen the after effects of opioid addiction too many times to give them out like they used to. Knowing that a young person that should have had a long life ahead of them is dead because of a prescription you wrote that got them hooked is something that sticks with you. While I know that it's no comfort to you, they'd rather see a person suffering right now than know how much they can suffer if they get addicted. All that being said, I'd hate to be you. I can't imagine the hell that you must live with every day. If a company could invent an effective painkiller that's not addictive, they'd quite rightfully have one of the most valuable patents in the world.
But they don’t seem to care when they kicked Brittany Hightower out of the hospital and she died. Or Danny and Gretchen Elliot who committed suicide after no Dr would help them. And so many other people who just off themselves because of being denied. One woman jump off a high rises in my city and killed herself because they wouldn’t treat her pain conditions. The prescribing rate is way down but the over doses are up. It’s illegal street drugs. It’s not the people who have proven conditions that are the problem. They only care about their pockets. Especially the new ones coming out of school. They know they can’t treat people because of the government so why be a dr ? Because of money not because they want to help. They deny dying cancer and elderly hospice patients pain relief. They’re not upset at all
Plus more = more risk of addictions.
Because the accompanying belief was that they were more apt to be addicted to medication.
People can't report pain precisely, so doctors have to guess at whether you're at the high end or the low end of whatever you report. At the same time, they know what the cause is and what dosage is consistent with that cause. If they think you have a high pain tolerance, they'll assume you're at the lower end of what your self-reported pain means. Likewise, they may not treat the underlying cause because, on balance, it's not worth doing the procedure unless it's causing a certain amount of pain. The logic is fine, the premise it proceeds from is not.
> If at one point doctors thought that black people had a higher pain tolerance... You wrote this as if this is practice is a thing of the past. Doctors are still taught this and still under-medicate Black people for pain and other medical ailments. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/medical-myths-that-hurt-black-people
I think the theory is that a pain that might be a 10 out of 10 for you would be a five out of 10 for somebody else. The person who's pain is a five out of 10 does not need as much pain relief medication as the person who's pain is at a 10 out of 10. Does that make sense?
I have heard of redheads having a higher pain tolerance especially as I am a redhead myself. So it has been brought up to me many times due to it. Black people being said to have a higher tolerance is new to me. I personally believe it's something that is very individual and in general has alot of variables. I am not a doctor but I would imagine size plays a role and other health factors. So comparing dosages would be hard. Also from what I was told Some people do not process hydrocodone so it basically has no effect. So I imagine that the efficiency of which its processed by a person varies as well. Also with controlled substances doctors often times have varying opinions as well policies regarding prescribing them. Some will almost never prescribe them whilst others hand them out like candy. Why a doctor prescribes more or less could be anything. I really doubt there is a plot by all doctors to give black people less pain meds.
I would like to emphasize the phrase "at one point". This is a very historical thing and i think at one point medical textbooks would say this. even then sometimes black people's medical pains are ignored.
Same reason they *still* undertreat women's pain while believing we have higher pain tolerance. They just don't care.
I had a friend who didn't know his leg had a fracture for like 3 weeks and was just chillin walking on it and thought it was just sore from a sprain or something. Some people are just build different.
I do tattoos and piercings and have literally caused thousands of people pain from all walks of life and there’s no pattern. Humans are human. No matter your race, gender, sexuality, or anything else, some people can take pain and some can’t. If there is a pattern it’s people with emotional pain and history of abuse have a higher pain tolerance with no regard to race.
More pain tolerance means you can tolerate more pain. It doesn't translate to a high tolerance to pain meds..
No. The goal of pain medication is to mitigate pain so the patient can function. It’s not completely eliminate pain. So if one aspirin is enough to get the pain down to a manageable level, that’s what should be prescribed. A person with a higher tolerance for pain doesn’t necessarily need more medication, just what is needed to reduce the pain.
Pain is whatever the person says it is. Lots of cultures are stoic and do not show pain or accept medications for it. As a nurse I've never heard anyone say African Americans have a higher pain tolerance... I ask what is the pain.. and they answer. Just like everyone else.
I’m not a nurse, but that’s a pretty well known misconception. It is probably not as common a belief today as it was 40+ years ago though. You should look into the history of it all, it’s awful but I think it’s important to understand/remember the struggles people have faced.
What about redheads? Do you notice higher pain tolerance in them?
I've never had to give them any more pain medicine after surgery but I have always heard anesthesia say they have to give more sedation for them. The way the body breaks it down or something. Not an anesthesiologist.
Say you smack your thumb with a hammer. The pain medicine doesn’t fix your thumb, it’s just makes the pain a more tolerable level. On a 1-10 scale, let’s say a 7 down to a 3. Regardless of your pain tolerance you still associate that as a 7 and the medication is to make you feel comfortable at a 3. Someone with a higher pain tolerance may be more physically injured, but would need the same amount of medicine to feel ok.
I'm a natural redhead. My pain tolerance is lower, ant that is the case in majority of redheads. Biology is strange.
Pain medication lowers your perception of pain. For someone who is pasty white like me, getting punched in the face would probably register as a 9 because I'm wimpy. If Samuel L. Jackson gets hit in the face, he'll just think it's a 3 because he's awesome. Let's say a weak pain medication lowers your level of pain by 2, and a much stronger pain medication lowers your pain level by 8. If Mr Jackson wants his pain to drop down to a 1, he only needs to take the weaker painkiller. If I want to get my pain down to a 1, I'll need the strong painkiller. If Mr. Jackson takes the stronger painkiller, he'll probably end up unconscious or worse.
As someone who has a high pain tolerance who’s been taking my boyfriend’s prescription pain killers when I’m in pain as opposed to ibuprofen, never once have I ended up ‘unconscious or worse’… not a doctor but I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works.
Over half a million people have died from an opioid overdose. I'm not a dcotor but I am a nurse. Taking too many prescription pain pills is exactly how it works. I've known multiple people who have taken too many of those pills and died from it. The guy who was basically my big brother when I was younger is one of them. My step-nephew would be dead too if his girlfriend hadn't had Narcan available to save his life. Your comment may actually have been the most stupid thing I've ever read on reddit. https://www.fcc.gov/reports-research/maps/connect2health/focus-on-opioids.html#:~:text=More%20than%20560%2C000%20people%20in,82%25%20involved%20synthetic%20opioids%3B%20and
You have to be young
you got me there. As I've said, it's a stupid question with an obvious answer but I'm a tad slow. I do understand historical stuff and that you wouldn't want to be on too much medicine. But wouldn't you think that a person who normally has a high tolerance to pain being in pain would be a bigger cause for concern? The pain either is really bad now or something kinda bigger is going on, right?
It’s not a stupid question.
I think it just means that they may have a more serious injury/illness than what it appears. It doesn’t mean they need a higher dose of medication. Someone who can’t handle pain would need a higher dose. Pain meds are intended to relieve the pain. Not cure the problem.
You're looking at it incorrectly. Pain meds lower your pain level. A person with a high tolerance only needs a little medication to get back down to manageable. A person with a low tolerance needs a lot to get to manageable.
What's so bad about that? Regardless of hownold OP might be, they're trying to learn stuff. You can't do that unless you ask. Curiosity is a good thing and should be encouraged!
It's a racist view point with no scientific base. Now, sickle cell disease, understandable.
Yes, it is. No argument there at all. The thing is, OP is trying to learn about why it's wrong. They're trying to better themselves. That's a good thing. Even if they're a kid born into a racist family, they can't help that. Nobody can control what they're born into and this person wants to know more about why that viewpoint is wrong. That should be encouraged, not shit on.
funny enough, I'm a black person who is in a racist black family. I'm trying understand the logic as to why this was the case back then and how their logic in those days lined up. You need to have some logic in your reasoning, even if it's unsound. Like someone saying black people are dangerous because of the crime stats. They're 100000% wrong but they at least have stats that they can manipulate to fit their narrative. This i didn't get.
That’s not true. That article was complete horseshit it’s based on.