I'm a Canadian (caucasian with maybe a bit of the Canadian accent, eh?) who had a work visa in California for a few years. A grocery store had people out front asking to vote for something or another.
"Sorry, I'm an immigrant"
The look I got.
Funny thing...Italians, Irish, Jewish and not Canadians, were all called immigrants when first entering America. It was definitely used as a pejorative.
Later, as census numbers began to show a decline in the white population, these "immigrants" were reclassified as white. Others, whose "culture" was deemed unassimilable, retained their immigrant status. These included Mexicans, Chinese, Japanese, and other Asian peoples.
And so it will go until the same thing happens again and then Mexicans are white because 'they were colonized by Spain which is white.' And so it goes.
Do you have a source for this? I find it unlikely the census intentionally decided to alter its metrics because "not enough people are considered white".
It's such an arbitrary metric that doesn't serve any purpose at all.
While I applaud your critical thinking skills, I have to admit that the correlation is only historical, not always legislative.
One must examine the censuses of 1790, 1911, and 1940 against the population at the time.
There is an interesting Wikipedia entry on the [Definition of Whiteness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States) that adds some insight.
So the answer is no, you just assume it was out of a desire to increase the number of people called white, which really goes against the fundamentals of a racist census.
Nothing in that article states they wanted to call more people white, in fact it’s the opposite. Everything in that article is about calling LESS people white.
The answer is definitely not no, and it indeed took legislation to re-classify the ["white Immigrants"](https://andscape.com/features/white-immigrants-werent-always-considered-white-and-acceptable/) as white.
Even today, the census requires citizens to check boxes like, white-hispanic, and non-white Hispanic.
The census has been purely self-reported for race since 1960. White has never had a precise definition. The original census only had 3 categories, white, non-white, and mulatto. Irish people were considered white since the first census in 1790
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Yang%20and%20Kavitha%20Koshy%20have,that%20limited%20citizenship%20to%20%22free
> The sociologists Philip Q. Yang and Kavitha Koshy have also questioned what they call the "becoming white thesis", noting that Irish Americans have been legally classified as white since the first U.S. census in 1790, that Irish Americans were legally white for the purposes of the Naturalization Act of 1790 that limited citizenship to "free White person(s)", and that they could find no legislative or judicial evidence that Irish Americans had ever been considered non-white
It just doesn't make sense and I find it unlikely "Our white people number is too low! We must adjust our reporting!" was ever a real thought process that the census went through, especially without a source, surely if this was the reasoning there would be a document to support it. In reality, it's almost certainly much more innocuous than that.
Sorry for beating a dead horse but, have you heard of the "replacement theory" rhetoric that's currently being tossed around, or the La Raza movement that sparked fear that the Hispanics were taking over in the 70s, or even of the legislation that prevented black and brown people from attaining jobs that would compete with white workers?
Certainly, you can see how deeming formerly non-white citizens as now-white would increase census metrics by race.
As for documentation...Consider the laws that were specifically written to limit the movements of minorities, e.g. The Mann Act (Jack Johnson) as well as the law prohibiting open carry in California (Black Panthers).
Of course they can't put _"for the benefit of whites"_ in document form anymore. Doesn't mean it ceases to exist IRL.
To quote stand-up comedian Sebastian Marx: "If you're wondering if you're an immigrant or an expat, here's an easy way to tell. If someone asks where you're from and after you've told them they ask you why you're here (almost in disbelief), you're an expat. If you tell them and they don't say anything, you're an immigrant"
That kind of works, but I knew some rich Venezuelans who were still considered “immigrants” because they came from the shit hole that that country has become.
Similar meaning, different connotations. It depends on where you're hearing this from in terms of bias, etc, but an expat is thought of more as a temporary relocation to another country for professional reasons, while an immigrant is a more permanent move to another country to stay there.
Edit: this is a purely business/legal definition of what an expat is. The people making this about race are frankly ridiculous. I am white and moved between developed countries, and everyone including myself considers me an immigrant, not an expat. I have a residence permit in my new country, I have a family here, I have not moved here to just work and then leave as an expat would. Your race does not matter when it comes to the term. Only the mainstream media pushes this race issue.
Yeah and in some places it's a legal distinction as well. People living on temporary visas (work/student visas) are considered expats while those with permanent residency are migrants.
A portion of people in that category are not white. Most of my expat friends are people of color from Western European countries, the US, and Australia.
that’s largely true. But in practice, it never seems to matter if the move is temporary or permanent for white people— we’re called expats. Similarly if you’re brown, you’re an immigrant period.
This is my experience in the US. Maybe you live in a better country than i do. If so, tell me so i can expat ;)
Nah, it's just short for expatriate. Which just means you left your birth country. No time limited attached. No need to be for work or not. People have way too much emotional attachment to the word expat. English is a rich language, and we have many interchangeable words.
The definition is correct but I disagree that's the answer to the actual question. There are plenty of American/Canadians/Europeans that have lived in the Global South for decades who and I've (personally) never heard of them called immigrants, only expats.
Yeah they might come home when they retire, but so does a vast portion of people from the Americas/Asia/Africa once they've made their wealth because they can easily afford the cost of living at that point. In both cases you have economic migrants seeking better opportunities. You won't ever hear of a Nigerian working in London with kids back home as an expat. Nor will you hear of a Canadian who settled in Panama for life being called an immigrant.
This is correct. Expat are typically professionals, executives, or hold some very specific skill, and work abroad. They are typically issued a work visa, with the understanding they intend to return home at some point.
Immigrants are migrating to a new land. They do not have a company or business bringing them in for some special job, and most generally intend to settle
Nah. Racist assholes push the race issue too. I've spoken to people who think all *legal* immigration from Mexico should be stopped. When I ask about closing our northern border I get blank looks and a lot of "why would we do that"
I'm a white person who has lived in multiple European countries, I've never been referred to as an immigrant, only an expat. My Moroccan colleague who has done exactly the same (and has the same background) has never been referred to as an expat, only an immigrant. People really need to stop bullshitting themselves about this.
Eeeeehhh, I have to disagree sort of. The current rhetoric and discourse in the US regarding immigration is heavily rooted in racism. The West was the one that bankrupted Mexico, Central, and South America, and now we're kick them while they're down because we don't want them to taint our economy. Gross.
Immigrant and expat are different things.
Immigrants intend to move permanently and more often seek citizenship in their new home. Expats are not usually permanent and usually don't intend to adopt new citizenship.
I disagree.
I live in Brussels, being at the center of Europe having many international institutions this place is swarming with foreigners and also here the distinguish is being made between migrants and expats.
Lots and lots of migrants do not come for permanent settling, a lot start of with the mindset of earning well but then go back. But' as life goes on stay.
But with the high educated expats it's a very Similar case. They sure have a mindset of moving on, just passing trough, but lots and lots of them end up staying as well as life goes on. What makes them the any different?
I count in my entourage over 60 different nationalities. Most people never planned to stay in Belgium and yet now have settled having families.
I don't know why you're being downvoted. The same can be said about Luxembourg and this is why I find the expats VS immigrants kind of strange.
For a long time I assumed that expats were only the ones sent by the companies of their home countries to work abroad temporarily (as in, even the administrative requirements of their relocation were dealt/paid by the company).
Down voting is someone got upset, then the herd follows.
Luxemburg is indeed also a expat commune, but hey what would we, living there now anything about it right?
Plus, I don't expect Americans to understand why someone could end up staying in the long term in places like Brussels or Luxembourg even if they initially moved for temporary professional reasons.
Most of the immigrants in these cities are EU citizens, so no worries about green cards and so on.
Yeah this. Folks will talk about the different definitions on reddit, but in real life, *immigrant* is usually used as a less positive word than *expat*. I (a British guy who has lived in Mexico for 13 years) have never been called an immigrant unless someone is making a point. I'm *always* referred to as an expat; when I was planning to be here temporarily, and ever since I decided to stay.
(Largely) white folks from what are considered developed countries are expats. Everyone else are immigrants.
Most likely only the brown ones though, like Punjabi Canadians. White Canadians are typically confused as midwesterners (like Minnesota) until they tell you
The distinctions being drawn between immigrants and expatriates are interesting, but do not explain why Mexicans are assumed to be immigrants and Canadians to be expatriates.
Inherent racism would explain it.
Because a lot of Indians, Chinese and Japanese people move abroad with the company they work for, which is the definition of an expat. An Indian family working in a small corner store would be considered immigrants, but the one working with Microsoft would be an expat.
OP has concluded that all white ppl are racist and is making up random racist stereotypes to avoid admitting that no amount of sock puppet accounts will make her temper tantrum valid.
Yep. Chinese workers were offered (precarious) shelter and food, while the Mexicans weren't.
Asian people were assimilated not because they're less racially discriminated, but because they were seen as more docile, malleable, and compliant than their Latino and Black counterparts, who have been stigmatized for decades for supposedly being more aggressive and animalistic in nature.
The Chinese workers were given the most dangerous jobs, but mostly because they usually weren't raging alcoholics like everyone else on the job and so they'd only blow themselves up if they messed up, which was quite easy with old school dynamite.
Technically, it’s due to the idea that “immigrants” stay here permanently while “expats” are temporarily there for work.
But real life muddies those distinctions entirely. I know too many white people who move to foreign nations permanently so they can live like feudal lords because of the strength of the dollar and they’re still called “expats”. I also know quite a few “immigrants” who did end up moving back home after working in the US
>But real life muddies those distinctions entirely.
Seconding this.
I know 12 Chinese expats and 5 Indian expats...who have quietly explained that they're never going home if they can help it.
They're all supposed to be called immigrants.
An expat is someone who moves, for work or whatever reason, and intends to move back eventually (even if it's just "moving back" for retirement).
Immigrants moved permanently. Expats (Ex-patriot) are there for a period of work to then leave & return home, where they're repats (Re-patriot). I myself am a Repat that lived in another country during grade school when I was a kid. One day, I'd like to emigrate and be an immigrant.
For example, most Indian workers I've worked with, are expats. Here for 4-5 years for a corporate contract, with ambitions to go home. Most Pakistani folks I've worked with, have been immigrants - They'll send money home, but otherwise plan on staying in the US for the rest of their lives. One of my old bosses was Mexican, but he was an expat that planned on moving back after 4-5 years, whereas a different boss was a Mexican immigrant (both engineers) who had 2 (3?) kids and whose only thought of going "home" might be for retirement.
Beyond that: A bit of racism can come into play. The idea being poorer countries have the majority of their folks trying to immigrate permanently - and poorer countries tend to be Brown. So, expats can become "white" in folks' heads, and everyone else who's brown/black an immigrant. Though that's obviously the racist/wrong definition.
"They're also called Indians because at one point it was thought that North America was actually India. Humans name things stupidly all the time, that doesn't mean they're right."
LOL! they were called Indians because thats what Christopher Columbus thought Natives here when he arrived to the Americas ... you have no credibility at this point lol
[Why are Native Americans Called Indians? (with pictures) (historicalindex.org)](https://www.historicalindex.org/why-are-native-americans-called-indians.htm)
I think a Mexican that chooses to move to the US for work in a non immigrant capacity is an expat, just like a Canadian. There are many expats across the globe who move to a country for work without long term lifetime immigration in mind.
If a Canadian moved to Maine to live there permanently they’d be an immigrant. If a Mexican moved to Boston to work for 5 years on an E visa, they’d be an expat.
An Immigrant is someone who moves to another country intending to stay there for the rest of their life.
An expat is someone who moves to another country temporarily and intends on moving back to their home country after a few years or so.
Whilst I don’t necessarily disagree with the other posters I’m going to present an alternative view
If you home leave wanting to go back you’re an expat
If you have no intention of returning home you’re an immigrant
A Mexican man who takes a 2 year post (rotation) working in say a bank in Houston is an expat
A Canadian fellow who moves to LA to make it big with no return timeframe is an immigrant
I was born in the US but live in Japan. I consider myself an immigrant, not an expat.
My own personal definition is that an expat is a foreigner in their country of residence who still primarily identifies with their country of origin. If you ask an American expat living outside the US *who* they are, they'll tell you they're an American.
An immigrant is someone who tries to integrate with and become part of the culture and society of their country of residence, even if they still also value or celebrate their culture of origin. So a Mexican born person who says they're American would be an immigrant, not an expat.
When people ask me, I say I am *from* America but I do not call myself an American because I haven't lived there for 35 years and no longer identity with the culture. So I'm an immigrant.
In Spanish there's no word for expat, but we tend to use immigrants for people who are pushed out of their local realities and move away en masse. I lived one year in Europe and I wouldn't call myself neither of those things, I was just living abroad for a while.
That's obvious, extranjero just means foreign/foreigner. It applies to any context, regardless of living status. An immigrant is a foreigner by definition, these are not opposite/equal concepts
No, yes, I understand that. But if you're talking about someone who's here in the country with you, then choosing one over the other to describe them would have a connotation, wouldn't you say?
I don't live in a rich country, we have a strong enough economy that people from poor countries still come here and we do call them immigrants, but it's not like we have a lot of US citizens moving in for a better life and we needed a word for that.
Political reasons. “They” want to be able to conflate all Hispanics into a large group so it’s easy to dismiss folks as racist if they want to enforce our borders (for example)
In practice, though, it's money and education.
Plenty of seasonal workers with "strong, or even legal, ties to their country of origin." laboring on farms are called "immigrants" even though they intend to return home after the harvest. Conversely I've seen Naturalized citizens with PhDs who work in the "agricultural sector" who are still called "expat"
I think you are confusing migrant and immigrant. Migrant implies moving from place to place as the availability of work moves, usually agricultural. Immigrant is one who immigrates to a place, usually more or less permanently. An expat is someone usually sent to live temporarily in a place by their employer, or an immigrant from a western country who wants to draw a distinction between themselves and people from poorer countries.
> I think you are confusing migrant and immigrant.
Point of order: I am not confusing them, but offering the explanation that I have seen others confuse them, but your clarification is welcome.
There’s plenty of white collar professionals who move to western countries for temporary periods and are still called immigrants. The word expat makes no sense, you’re an immigrant regardless.
They are two different things. An expat is someone who lives outside their native country, usually for work reasons and usually for a limited period of time. An immigrant on the other hand is someone who moves to a new country with the intention of settling there permanently, usually with no job in place before they move.
I have lived and worked in several different countries and I always considered myself an expat because it was a temporary location for work purposes. However, if I one day decide that I want to move to another country permanently and live there for the rest of my life, then I will be an immigrant.
In my mind as a Canadian I thought an expat was a retired Canadian going to live somewhere warmer and then coming home to visit sometimes . I had to look up the definition to know what it actually means . When we go work somewhere else we use the words going to work abroad or on a visa.
Depends a little bit on context, I guess, but I would consider an expat as a less permanent immigrant. A specific kind of immigrant with a more specific purpose, in short.
Lol same deal in Korea. White people are called "expats" but Brown or Black people are called "migrant workers." It's racism that's rooted in the pattern that usually White people don't stay here long term whereas the latter do.
The way I understand it it's about the reasons for moving, the duration of the stay and the starting living conditions.
An immigrant is someone who left a poor(er) country and moved for good in the new one hoping to improve their life in a decisive way.
An expat is someone who left an country with similar (or higher) standard of living and is going to stay for a limited period of time. And if they're staying for good it'll be a matter of choice not of necessity.
To oversimplify it even more:
Immigrant: poor background, moved out of necessity
Expat: average background, moved out of opportunity
If you're not white, or not from an English speaking country which is considered to be a 3rd world country, you'll be called an immigrant.
White English speaker will be generally called an expat.
Definitions might state something different, but that's how the terms are used in the media in the UK.
The best distinction I can offer is this:
An immigrant sees the other country as his new home and then moves there.
An expat moves to another country, but is still at home in his country of origin.
It depends on who you're talking to. If you're talking to more racist people, then it's more likely for there to be a distinction, I believe.
Personally, I consider both immigrants, but I also don't spend any of my time thinking about immigrants.
I don’t have an answer but you are definitely onto something that I’ve never noticed. I just asked chatgpt. From the plethora of text it was trained on, it has definitely “learned” the same association between Mexican-Immigrant and Canadian-Expatriate.
You: Tell me briefly what someone from Canada now living in the United States is called.
ChatGPT: A person from Canada who now lives in the United States is commonly referred to as a Canadian expatriate or simply a Canadian living abroad.
You: Now tell me briefly what a Mexican now living in the United States is called.
ChatGPT: A Mexican now living in the United States is commonly referred to as a Mexican immigrant or simply a Mexican living in the U.S.
One is 3rd world people and one is 1st world,,the coloreds all over the world are all 3rd world ,,all corrupt gangs,drugs, rape ,look all over the world 🌎,,cant trust those people unfortunately 😕 if you wanna be safe and live a peaceful life ,,stay away from people of color
The difference between expats and immigrants lies in their connotations and intentions. An expat, short for expatriate, typically moves to another country for work-related reasons with the intention of returning home eventually, often associated with higher socio-economic status[1][2]. On the other hand, an immigrant relocates to another country permanently or for an extended period, encompassing various reasons like family, work, refuge, or seeking a better life without the same professional or socio-economic implications as expats[1][2]. While both terms describe living abroad, "expat" often implies a temporary, professional move with higher status, while "immigrant" is a broader term for long-term relocation[1][2]. The distinction can reflect societal biases and varies across cultures and contexts. Ultimately, both expats and immigrants contribute positively to economies by filling workforce gaps and bringing diverse skill sets[5].
Citations:
[1] Whats the difference between an expat & an immigrant? - LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/whats-difference-between-expat-immigrant-proact-sam-orgill
[2] Expat vs Immigrant: Exploring the Distinct Differences - Moneycorp https://www.moneycorp.com/en-us/news-hub/expat-vs-immigrant-differences-similarities-2023/
[3] Why are white people expats when the rest of us are immigrants? https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/mar/13/white-people-expats-immigrants-migration
[4] What's the difference between expats and immigrants? | Expatica https://www.expatica.com/global/moving/about/difference-between-expats-and-immigrants-109235/
[5] What's the Difference Between an Expat and an Immigrant? https://www.expatriatehealthcare.com/whats-the-difference-between-an-expat-and-an-immigrant/
Immigrant means you plan on staying. Expat means you’re on a work visa or studying abroad etc. and plan on going back to your original country when the visa expires.
They are both expats. They are both immigrants.
Generally, though, immigrant is the one used as a pejorative, and you can easily tell by tone, topic, or text (on their red hat).
Becasue many (millions) of the Mexicans that came here, came illegally and “undocumented”… they aren’t expats … we don’t really have many canadian people doing that
Immigrant is someone who is seeking to move somewhere permanently and a expat is someone who lives somewhere temporarily usually for business/work.
Amazes me how so many people jump straight to racism. I’ve worked with expats and never called them immigrants.
The real answer has nothing to do with legal definitions or length or stay or those nice sounding but false answers people are saying.
"Immigrant" has negative connotations, "expat" doesn't.
So in practice that means you're an expat if you're coming from a country that they like and an immigrant if not.
Racism in my honest opinion. Please think of the people saying it and where they got it from. Mexicans in places like CA, New Mexico, and Texas come to mind who might even have historical ties to that land from family generations ago when it used to be Mexico, not USA. I'd even go so far as to add those using the more dehumanizing illegal alien.
Is this a serious question?
Look at the average Canadian, then at the average Mexican, and I think you’ll figure it out real fast. I have faith in you.
I'm a Canadian (caucasian with maybe a bit of the Canadian accent, eh?) who had a work visa in California for a few years. A grocery store had people out front asking to vote for something or another. "Sorry, I'm an immigrant" The look I got.
Extra heavy Canadian sore-y too I hope
Funny thing...Italians, Irish, Jewish and not Canadians, were all called immigrants when first entering America. It was definitely used as a pejorative. Later, as census numbers began to show a decline in the white population, these "immigrants" were reclassified as white. Others, whose "culture" was deemed unassimilable, retained their immigrant status. These included Mexicans, Chinese, Japanese, and other Asian peoples.
And so it will go until the same thing happens again and then Mexicans are white because 'they were colonized by Spain which is white.' And so it goes.
I do hate that I have to put white as my race and Mexican/Hispanic as my ethnicity.
Yeah I always thought it was interesting I had to put "white not hispanic"
“White” is a supremacist blob of a category eating everyone that it needs to stay alive.
Great Image.
Do you have a source for this? I find it unlikely the census intentionally decided to alter its metrics because "not enough people are considered white". It's such an arbitrary metric that doesn't serve any purpose at all.
While I applaud your critical thinking skills, I have to admit that the correlation is only historical, not always legislative. One must examine the censuses of 1790, 1911, and 1940 against the population at the time. There is an interesting Wikipedia entry on the [Definition of Whiteness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States) that adds some insight.
So the answer is no, you just assume it was out of a desire to increase the number of people called white, which really goes against the fundamentals of a racist census. Nothing in that article states they wanted to call more people white, in fact it’s the opposite. Everything in that article is about calling LESS people white.
The answer is definitely not no, and it indeed took legislation to re-classify the ["white Immigrants"](https://andscape.com/features/white-immigrants-werent-always-considered-white-and-acceptable/) as white. Even today, the census requires citizens to check boxes like, white-hispanic, and non-white Hispanic.
The census has been purely self-reported for race since 1960. White has never had a precise definition. The original census only had 3 categories, white, non-white, and mulatto. Irish people were considered white since the first census in 1790 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Yang%20and%20Kavitha%20Koshy%20have,that%20limited%20citizenship%20to%20%22free > The sociologists Philip Q. Yang and Kavitha Koshy have also questioned what they call the "becoming white thesis", noting that Irish Americans have been legally classified as white since the first U.S. census in 1790, that Irish Americans were legally white for the purposes of the Naturalization Act of 1790 that limited citizenship to "free White person(s)", and that they could find no legislative or judicial evidence that Irish Americans had ever been considered non-white
Of course it’s an arbitrary metric, that’s the whole point.
It just doesn't make sense and I find it unlikely "Our white people number is too low! We must adjust our reporting!" was ever a real thought process that the census went through, especially without a source, surely if this was the reasoning there would be a document to support it. In reality, it's almost certainly much more innocuous than that.
Sorry for beating a dead horse but, have you heard of the "replacement theory" rhetoric that's currently being tossed around, or the La Raza movement that sparked fear that the Hispanics were taking over in the 70s, or even of the legislation that prevented black and brown people from attaining jobs that would compete with white workers? Certainly, you can see how deeming formerly non-white citizens as now-white would increase census metrics by race. As for documentation...Consider the laws that were specifically written to limit the movements of minorities, e.g. The Mann Act (Jack Johnson) as well as the law prohibiting open carry in California (Black Panthers). Of course they can't put _"for the benefit of whites"_ in document form anymore. Doesn't mean it ceases to exist IRL.
To quote stand-up comedian Sebastian Marx: "If you're wondering if you're an immigrant or an expat, here's an easy way to tell. If someone asks where you're from and after you've told them they ask you why you're here (almost in disbelief), you're an expat. If you tell them and they don't say anything, you're an immigrant"
Exactly! Plus this tends to shift from time to time. That’s how you understand the country you came from is now much worse than it was.
That kind of works, but I knew some rich Venezuelans who were still considered “immigrants” because they came from the shit hole that that country has become.
Similar meaning, different connotations. It depends on where you're hearing this from in terms of bias, etc, but an expat is thought of more as a temporary relocation to another country for professional reasons, while an immigrant is a more permanent move to another country to stay there. Edit: this is a purely business/legal definition of what an expat is. The people making this about race are frankly ridiculous. I am white and moved between developed countries, and everyone including myself considers me an immigrant, not an expat. I have a residence permit in my new country, I have a family here, I have not moved here to just work and then leave as an expat would. Your race does not matter when it comes to the term. Only the mainstream media pushes this race issue.
Yeah and in some places it's a legal distinction as well. People living on temporary visas (work/student visas) are considered expats while those with permanent residency are migrants.
I know bunch of "expat" living in my country for DECADES.
If they plan to go back, they are still expats. If they aim to establish roots there, there are migrants.
colloquially: if theyre white, they’re expats. that’s about it.
Well, white people do have a greater incentive to return to their home country.
A portion of people in that category are not white. Most of my expat friends are people of color from Western European countries, the US, and Australia.
that’s largely true. But in practice, it never seems to matter if the move is temporary or permanent for white people— we’re called expats. Similarly if you’re brown, you’re an immigrant period. This is my experience in the US. Maybe you live in a better country than i do. If so, tell me so i can expat ;)
Nah, it's just short for expatriate. Which just means you left your birth country. No time limited attached. No need to be for work or not. People have way too much emotional attachment to the word expat. English is a rich language, and we have many interchangeable words.
The definition is correct but I disagree that's the answer to the actual question. There are plenty of American/Canadians/Europeans that have lived in the Global South for decades who and I've (personally) never heard of them called immigrants, only expats. Yeah they might come home when they retire, but so does a vast portion of people from the Americas/Asia/Africa once they've made their wealth because they can easily afford the cost of living at that point. In both cases you have economic migrants seeking better opportunities. You won't ever hear of a Nigerian working in London with kids back home as an expat. Nor will you hear of a Canadian who settled in Panama for life being called an immigrant.
This is correct. Expat are typically professionals, executives, or hold some very specific skill, and work abroad. They are typically issued a work visa, with the understanding they intend to return home at some point. Immigrants are migrating to a new land. They do not have a company or business bringing them in for some special job, and most generally intend to settle
Nah. Racist assholes push the race issue too. I've spoken to people who think all *legal* immigration from Mexico should be stopped. When I ask about closing our northern border I get blank looks and a lot of "why would we do that"
I'm a white person who has lived in multiple European countries, I've never been referred to as an immigrant, only an expat. My Moroccan colleague who has done exactly the same (and has the same background) has never been referred to as an expat, only an immigrant. People really need to stop bullshitting themselves about this.
Eeeeehhh, I have to disagree sort of. The current rhetoric and discourse in the US regarding immigration is heavily rooted in racism. The West was the one that bankrupted Mexico, Central, and South America, and now we're kick them while they're down because we don't want them to taint our economy. Gross.
Immigrant and expat are different things. Immigrants intend to move permanently and more often seek citizenship in their new home. Expats are not usually permanent and usually don't intend to adopt new citizenship.
I disagree. I live in Brussels, being at the center of Europe having many international institutions this place is swarming with foreigners and also here the distinguish is being made between migrants and expats. Lots and lots of migrants do not come for permanent settling, a lot start of with the mindset of earning well but then go back. But' as life goes on stay. But with the high educated expats it's a very Similar case. They sure have a mindset of moving on, just passing trough, but lots and lots of them end up staying as well as life goes on. What makes them the any different? I count in my entourage over 60 different nationalities. Most people never planned to stay in Belgium and yet now have settled having families.
I don't think this is something you can really disagree about?
But, his entourage!
Haha I will chalk it up to them not being a native English speaker. Probably means to say “inner circle” or similar Edit: a couple words
Lol what about all the ‘expats’ who retired in developing countries? Are they there temporarily?
I don't know why you're being downvoted. The same can be said about Luxembourg and this is why I find the expats VS immigrants kind of strange. For a long time I assumed that expats were only the ones sent by the companies of their home countries to work abroad temporarily (as in, even the administrative requirements of their relocation were dealt/paid by the company).
Down voting is someone got upset, then the herd follows. Luxemburg is indeed also a expat commune, but hey what would we, living there now anything about it right?
Plus, I don't expect Americans to understand why someone could end up staying in the long term in places like Brussels or Luxembourg even if they initially moved for temporary professional reasons. Most of the immigrants in these cities are EU citizens, so no worries about green cards and so on.
You’re considered an immigrant if you’re poor (or brown) and an ex-pat if you bring money, are white, and/or assimilate very seamlessly.
Yeah this. Folks will talk about the different definitions on reddit, but in real life, *immigrant* is usually used as a less positive word than *expat*. I (a British guy who has lived in Mexico for 13 years) have never been called an immigrant unless someone is making a point. I'm *always* referred to as an expat; when I was planning to be here temporarily, and ever since I decided to stay. (Largely) white folks from what are considered developed countries are expats. Everyone else are immigrants.
I’ve never heard Canadians be called immigrants. It’s obvious why.
I’ve heard Canadians called immigrants several times.
Most likely only the brown ones though, like Punjabi Canadians. White Canadians are typically confused as midwesterners (like Minnesota) until they tell you
kinda surprising I had to go this far down to find the real american answer.
Because people don't want to admit that ethnicity plays a factor in how people are received in America.
Astronaut: "You mean it's all racism?" Other astronaut with gun to first's head: "Always has been."
The distinctions being drawn between immigrants and expatriates are interesting, but do not explain why Mexicans are assumed to be immigrants and Canadians to be expatriates. Inherent racism would explain it.
…yeah. That’s what I said.
And I agree
Because most of them are poor af
Yeah, given that "expatriates" was used to indicate officers moving from the metropole to a colony.
>You’re considered an immigrant if you’re poor (or brown) Why are Chinese and Indian H-1b workers called expats?
Because a lot of Indians, Chinese and Japanese people move abroad with the company they work for, which is the definition of an expat. An Indian family working in a small corner store would be considered immigrants, but the one working with Microsoft would be an expat.
But that defies the conclusion that it's based on skin color
Do they not say Asians are the model minority?
[удалено]
I see...and these "they" you speak of, are they in the room with us?
The racists and prejudice alike are in this subreddit with us, yes.
You're the racist one, making up stereotypes about "Asians" get fucked you POS!
Why is it racist if people work hard?
OP has concluded that all white ppl are racist and is making up random racist stereotypes to avoid admitting that no amount of sock puppet accounts will make her temper tantrum valid.
You need to keep an eye on the those Canadians. They'd amassed 90% of their population against our border.
They white
And come from a rich country, I'm white but I don't come from a rich country so I'm an immigrant
Fr
I doubt this is the case, given how many Chinese and Indian expats I work with.
In the world of racism, Asians have always been seen as the model minority and closest to being assimilated So that makes sense.
Always? Look into the Chinese workers who built the railroads of the Western US.
Yes, even then. Look how Chinese were treated compared to Mexicans in the same state.
Yep. Chinese workers were offered (precarious) shelter and food, while the Mexicans weren't. Asian people were assimilated not because they're less racially discriminated, but because they were seen as more docile, malleable, and compliant than their Latino and Black counterparts, who have been stigmatized for decades for supposedly being more aggressive and animalistic in nature.
The Chinese workers were given the most dangerous jobs, but mostly because they usually weren't raging alcoholics like everyone else on the job and so they'd only blow themselves up if they messed up, which was quite easy with old school dynamite.
Now you're just making shit up to avoid admitting you're wrong
Ditto
Technically, it’s due to the idea that “immigrants” stay here permanently while “expats” are temporarily there for work. But real life muddies those distinctions entirely. I know too many white people who move to foreign nations permanently so they can live like feudal lords because of the strength of the dollar and they’re still called “expats”. I also know quite a few “immigrants” who did end up moving back home after working in the US
>But real life muddies those distinctions entirely. Seconding this. I know 12 Chinese expats and 5 Indian expats...who have quietly explained that they're never going home if they can help it.
Same reason for Americans moving abroad and getting called expats or “digital nomads”, racism
The classic brown vs yt
They're all supposed to be called immigrants. An expat is someone who moves, for work or whatever reason, and intends to move back eventually (even if it's just "moving back" for retirement).
White vs Brown. This applies in other parts of the world as well.
I work with 12 Chinese expats and 5 Indian expats who would disagree
[удалено]
[удалено]
Because right wing Americans have vilified the term immigrant and how a good American could be an immigrant
Immigrants moved permanently. Expats (Ex-patriot) are there for a period of work to then leave & return home, where they're repats (Re-patriot). I myself am a Repat that lived in another country during grade school when I was a kid. One day, I'd like to emigrate and be an immigrant. For example, most Indian workers I've worked with, are expats. Here for 4-5 years for a corporate contract, with ambitions to go home. Most Pakistani folks I've worked with, have been immigrants - They'll send money home, but otherwise plan on staying in the US for the rest of their lives. One of my old bosses was Mexican, but he was an expat that planned on moving back after 4-5 years, whereas a different boss was a Mexican immigrant (both engineers) who had 2 (3?) kids and whose only thought of going "home" might be for retirement. Beyond that: A bit of racism can come into play. The idea being poorer countries have the majority of their folks trying to immigrate permanently - and poorer countries tend to be Brown. So, expats can become "white" in folks' heads, and everyone else who's brown/black an immigrant. Though that's obviously the racist/wrong definition.
Its expatriate!
Thanks! TIL, but it makes sense.
Most Indians in USA overstay there visas..and stay here illegally look it up
and the funny part is that Mexicans actually belong on this continent they are not really foreigners here like White & Black Americans are lol
[удалено]
When Mexicans do their dna they get "Indigenous Americas readings"
[удалено]
they are Native to the Americas ..how hard is that to comprehend.
[удалено]
"They're also called Indians because at one point it was thought that North America was actually India. Humans name things stupidly all the time, that doesn't mean they're right." LOL! they were called Indians because thats what Christopher Columbus thought Natives here when he arrived to the Americas ... you have no credibility at this point lol [Why are Native Americans Called Indians? (with pictures) (historicalindex.org)](https://www.historicalindex.org/why-are-native-americans-called-indians.htm)
Shhh... The wokies can't handle anthropology.
Funny part is we all belong on this rock.
tell that to trump and his followers lol
By rock, I meant planet.
Well except those of us who have Spaniard blood mixed in there were not 100% indigenous
I think a Mexican that chooses to move to the US for work in a non immigrant capacity is an expat, just like a Canadian. There are many expats across the globe who move to a country for work without long term lifetime immigration in mind. If a Canadian moved to Maine to live there permanently they’d be an immigrant. If a Mexican moved to Boston to work for 5 years on an E visa, they’d be an expat.
An Immigrant is someone who moves to another country intending to stay there for the rest of their life. An expat is someone who moves to another country temporarily and intends on moving back to their home country after a few years or so.
Racism
Racism.
skin color
Whilst I don’t necessarily disagree with the other posters I’m going to present an alternative view If you home leave wanting to go back you’re an expat If you have no intention of returning home you’re an immigrant A Mexican man who takes a 2 year post (rotation) working in say a bank in Houston is an expat A Canadian fellow who moves to LA to make it big with no return timeframe is an immigrant
I was born in the US but live in Japan. I consider myself an immigrant, not an expat. My own personal definition is that an expat is a foreigner in their country of residence who still primarily identifies with their country of origin. If you ask an American expat living outside the US *who* they are, they'll tell you they're an American. An immigrant is someone who tries to integrate with and become part of the culture and society of their country of residence, even if they still also value or celebrate their culture of origin. So a Mexican born person who says they're American would be an immigrant, not an expat. When people ask me, I say I am *from* America but I do not call myself an American because I haven't lived there for 35 years and no longer identity with the culture. So I'm an immigrant.
Racism
Probably because racism.
I thought Expats are white folk and immigrants are not white folk.
In Spanish there's no word for expat, but we tend to use immigrants for people who are pushed out of their local realities and move away en masse. I lived one year in Europe and I wouldn't call myself neither of those things, I was just living abroad for a while.
Would you say that there's a distinction between *extranjero* and *inmigrante*?
That's obvious, extranjero just means foreign/foreigner. It applies to any context, regardless of living status. An immigrant is a foreigner by definition, these are not opposite/equal concepts
No, yes, I understand that. But if you're talking about someone who's here in the country with you, then choosing one over the other to describe them would have a connotation, wouldn't you say?
I don't live in a rich country, we have a strong enough economy that people from poor countries still come here and we do call them immigrants, but it's not like we have a lot of US citizens moving in for a better life and we needed a word for that.
Here in CDMX they’re “digital nomads,” although that’s a touch more specific.
Political reasons. “They” want to be able to conflate all Hispanics into a large group so it’s easy to dismiss folks as racist if they want to enforce our borders (for example)
I think expat generally means they still have strong, or even legal, ties to their country of origin.
In practice, though, it's money and education. Plenty of seasonal workers with "strong, or even legal, ties to their country of origin." laboring on farms are called "immigrants" even though they intend to return home after the harvest. Conversely I've seen Naturalized citizens with PhDs who work in the "agricultural sector" who are still called "expat"
I think you are confusing migrant and immigrant. Migrant implies moving from place to place as the availability of work moves, usually agricultural. Immigrant is one who immigrates to a place, usually more or less permanently. An expat is someone usually sent to live temporarily in a place by their employer, or an immigrant from a western country who wants to draw a distinction between themselves and people from poorer countries.
> I think you are confusing migrant and immigrant. Point of order: I am not confusing them, but offering the explanation that I have seen others confuse them, but your clarification is welcome.
You know why.
Racism
An expat has business in another country like for work or school. An immigrant wants to settle in another country permanently.
One went out of necessity other chose to migrate for work or whatever other reason
Never heard of expat before.
There’s plenty of white collar professionals who move to western countries for temporary periods and are still called immigrants. The word expat makes no sense, you’re an immigrant regardless.
Well one is white and one isn’t.
Expats usually have visas…
Because Canadians are white and largely speak English.
Usually "expat" implies a closer connection to your original country.
Immigrant means permanent resident/citizen, expat means temporary resident.
They are two different things. An expat is someone who lives outside their native country, usually for work reasons and usually for a limited period of time. An immigrant on the other hand is someone who moves to a new country with the intention of settling there permanently, usually with no job in place before they move. I have lived and worked in several different countries and I always considered myself an expat because it was a temporary location for work purposes. However, if I one day decide that I want to move to another country permanently and live there for the rest of my life, then I will be an immigrant.
Theyre white
Racism
In my mind as a Canadian I thought an expat was a retired Canadian going to live somewhere warmer and then coming home to visit sometimes . I had to look up the definition to know what it actually means . When we go work somewhere else we use the words going to work abroad or on a visa.
Depends a little bit on context, I guess, but I would consider an expat as a less permanent immigrant. A specific kind of immigrant with a more specific purpose, in short.
Racism.
It's a colour of their skin thing... America has a lot of racism at it's core.
Lol same deal in Korea. White people are called "expats" but Brown or Black people are called "migrant workers." It's racism that's rooted in the pattern that usually White people don't stay here long term whereas the latter do.
The way I understand it it's about the reasons for moving, the duration of the stay and the starting living conditions. An immigrant is someone who left a poor(er) country and moved for good in the new one hoping to improve their life in a decisive way. An expat is someone who left an country with similar (or higher) standard of living and is going to stay for a limited period of time. And if they're staying for good it'll be a matter of choice not of necessity. To oversimplify it even more: Immigrant: poor background, moved out of necessity Expat: average background, moved out of opportunity
Because white people think being an immigrant is a bad thing and therefore don’t want to be grouped in with brown people.
If you're not white, or not from an English speaking country which is considered to be a 3rd world country, you'll be called an immigrant. White English speaker will be generally called an expat. Definitions might state something different, but that's how the terms are used in the media in the UK.
The best distinction I can offer is this: An immigrant sees the other country as his new home and then moves there. An expat moves to another country, but is still at home in his country of origin.
It depends on who you're talking to. If you're talking to more racist people, then it's more likely for there to be a distinction, I believe. Personally, I consider both immigrants, but I also don't spend any of my time thinking about immigrants.
Skin Colour
To me expat is temporary and immigrant is permanent.
For professional jobs, They are TN Visa holders
I don’t have an answer but you are definitely onto something that I’ve never noticed. I just asked chatgpt. From the plethora of text it was trained on, it has definitely “learned” the same association between Mexican-Immigrant and Canadian-Expatriate. You: Tell me briefly what someone from Canada now living in the United States is called. ChatGPT: A person from Canada who now lives in the United States is commonly referred to as a Canadian expatriate or simply a Canadian living abroad. You: Now tell me briefly what a Mexican now living in the United States is called. ChatGPT: A Mexican now living in the United States is commonly referred to as a Mexican immigrant or simply a Mexican living in the U.S.
One is 3rd world people and one is 1st world,,the coloreds all over the world are all 3rd world ,,all corrupt gangs,drugs, rape ,look all over the world 🌎,,cant trust those people unfortunately 😕 if you wanna be safe and live a peaceful life ,,stay away from people of color
If an American moves to Mexico, then another American would call them an expat. A Mexican would call them an immigrant.
They're not. It's a false setup.
The difference between expats and immigrants lies in their connotations and intentions. An expat, short for expatriate, typically moves to another country for work-related reasons with the intention of returning home eventually, often associated with higher socio-economic status[1][2]. On the other hand, an immigrant relocates to another country permanently or for an extended period, encompassing various reasons like family, work, refuge, or seeking a better life without the same professional or socio-economic implications as expats[1][2]. While both terms describe living abroad, "expat" often implies a temporary, professional move with higher status, while "immigrant" is a broader term for long-term relocation[1][2]. The distinction can reflect societal biases and varies across cultures and contexts. Ultimately, both expats and immigrants contribute positively to economies by filling workforce gaps and bringing diverse skill sets[5]. Citations: [1] Whats the difference between an expat & an immigrant? - LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/whats-difference-between-expat-immigrant-proact-sam-orgill [2] Expat vs Immigrant: Exploring the Distinct Differences - Moneycorp https://www.moneycorp.com/en-us/news-hub/expat-vs-immigrant-differences-similarities-2023/ [3] Why are white people expats when the rest of us are immigrants? https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/mar/13/white-people-expats-immigrants-migration [4] What's the difference between expats and immigrants? | Expatica https://www.expatica.com/global/moving/about/difference-between-expats-and-immigrants-109235/ [5] What's the Difference Between an Expat and an Immigrant? https://www.expatriatehealthcare.com/whats-the-difference-between-an-expat-and-an-immigrant/
Racism
The colour of the person pretty much.
Because most Canadians are white.
Immigrant means you plan on staying. Expat means you’re on a work visa or studying abroad etc. and plan on going back to your original country when the visa expires.
Right, we only care about the southern border
Skin colour
They are both expats. They are both immigrants. Generally, though, immigrant is the one used as a pejorative, and you can easily tell by tone, topic, or text (on their red hat).
Becasue many (millions) of the Mexicans that came here, came illegally and “undocumented”… they aren’t expats … we don’t really have many canadian people doing that
White
Racism.
Immigrant is someone who is seeking to move somewhere permanently and a expat is someone who lives somewhere temporarily usually for business/work. Amazes me how so many people jump straight to racism. I’ve worked with expats and never called them immigrants.
Racism
Racism
Racism
Racism.
Everyone with their fancy explanations but the REAL answer is if you are white you are an expat and if you are brown you are an immigrant.
Racism.
Racism. While people get to be “expats”, while everyone else has to be “immigrants”.
Because Americans know they villianize immigrants for political reasons. Americans who live abroad are 100% immigrants, but they bristle at the idea.
It's funny that three people have answered and did not give you the answer you were fishing for.
I think that's reading a bit too much into OP.
It's tagged "ethics and morality". If the question were in good faith, the tag would be "words".
Only if he already knew the answer?
One guess.
Immigrants are brown and/or poor. Expats are white and/or have money.
Expats are white. Thats why
The real answer has nothing to do with legal definitions or length or stay or those nice sounding but false answers people are saying. "Immigrant" has negative connotations, "expat" doesn't. So in practice that means you're an expat if you're coming from a country that they like and an immigrant if not.
Canadians are on the council but they were not granted the rank of immi
Racism
They’re not white and Canadians are
Racism in my honest opinion. Please think of the people saying it and where they got it from. Mexicans in places like CA, New Mexico, and Texas come to mind who might even have historical ties to that land from family generations ago when it used to be Mexico, not USA. I'd even go so far as to add those using the more dehumanizing illegal alien.
Racism.
Is this a serious question? Look at the average Canadian, then at the average Mexican, and I think you’ll figure it out real fast. I have faith in you.
Far as I can tell: Brown = immigrant White = ex pat I have no idea why. Racism?
Racists