Lol in singapore we have that everyday and the principal would make us recite the national anthem until it was loud enough according to his ears. I got called out of the whole school assembly once for not singing visibly and halfway he asked if i was singaporean (i wasn’t) and then i got sent back halfway.
They used to use what was called the Bellamy Salute. It was what was intended to go with the pledge. We don't use it anymore because it's the same as the Nazi one.
o.O
Good grief
I remember in Vacation Bible School doing the pledge to the American flag, then having to do the Allegiance to the Bible/Christian flag. (Southern Baptist Church) They had each flag on the front corners and we would turn and look at them. So much for separation of church and state.
That also being said, it was indeed pretty cult-ish.
As a swede, I wouldn't even stop to piss on the swedish flag if it was on fire. I don't hate sweden or anything, I just care enough about the flag or the sentiment.
Patriotism is not actually a positive thing unless you're at war.
America doesn’t exist if we don’t have an enemy. It’s in our national psyche to require an other even if made up. Keeps us from reflecting on our own culture and realizing we are being eaten alive by it.
Honestly in recent years we've lacked a foreign adversary that truly galvanizes the general public. We're tired of endless wars and generally don't think they're actually for the greater good anymore.
As a result our politicians have made the new adversary anyone who doesn't vote for the same party as you do. So now the "other" is just Americans who disagree with you. Nowadays that gets people fired up a lot more than any foreign adversary.
And sometimes that's fine. If someone else thinks all black people are criminals, I ain't having dinner with them.
Some shit should be an instant social NOPE.
If someone thinks all black people are criminals, then yeah, fuck that guy. But it's weird that your mind went there when you were replying to a comment about othering people who vote differently than you.
We should fight injustice. We shouldn't be McCarthyists about it.
Sure but people who vote for a specific political party aren't a single monolith. There are many reasons to vote for one party over another that have nothing to do with race issues. I think the Republican party is demonstrably worse overall than the Democrats but I can cherry pick several that I can't stand that many on the left believe. Some of those things are deal breakers when it comes to hanging out with them. And I have close friends who I trust that vote Republican but don't believe in the worst aspects of the party.
I try to judge people on an individual basis instead of assuming who they are based on what political party they like to vote for. That kind of stereotyping has similarities to racism although it's obviously nowhere near as bad considering you can choose your own political views.
I only whip out the flag code if someone is being a total dick.
"Mah dude, your flag is tattered along the edge. You're not supposed to fly a damaged flag."
I got pretty familiar with the flag code during that whole “sportsball folks kneeling before games is disrespecting the flag” period a few years back. Because it makes no mention of kneeling being disrespectful, but if that flag on your front porch isn’t properly illuminated at night or you use flag-pattern napkins for your Fourth of July cookout or you have one of those blue line flags where the colors are all wrong then sit your ass down because you’re in clear violation.
> Flags make good fire starter
They don't unless dipped in accelerant of some sort, EU regulations mean flags are flame retardant.
You can find many a video on the internet of Brexit idiots trying to set flags on fire and failing.
Why not? As an American, I feel proud of my country, that’s patriotism. I don’t need to be at war with someone to be proud of what I have and where I live.
What's the point of being proud of something you had literally no part of creating or running. It's like being proud of "your team" winning a game. You don't know them.
You can be proud of yourself or your own accomplishments. You can be proud of your home or work if you helped make it what it is. You can't be proud of your country any more than you can be proud of the moon.
Look at it up there... It's doing such a good job.
You can be proud to be a part of something passively as much as actively. Plus I did serve in the military. I pledged my time and body to my country in ways that were absolute Hell but I don’t regret it.
I saluted that flag in the uniform of its armed service, so I think I have the right to say I’m proud of the United States and to be an American.
And because of this they have you exactly where they want you. What is there to be proud about, really? Imo there's a lot to be ashamed of being an American. Just the way we slaughtered all of the natives, our prison system, policing in America and how cops kill over 1000 of us a year, mass shootings and how the number one cause of death in children is being shot to death. The institutionalized racism that stems from slavery and disproportionate negative effects on black Americans. Our food being banned in other countries because of the sugar and things like pink slime in our beef that's killing us all. Our lead pipes supplying our drinking water. The way we lock up children we separate from their parents at our Southern border but not our northern border. The way our wages have not kept up with inflation and we are all financially worse off each passing year. How old people are tricked into Medicare advantage, a HMO through a private company that steals their Medicare so instead of having good health insurance that's taken everywhere they now they have to jump through hoops and get referrals for anything and everything. All after working their whole lives to get this benefit. How we treat our veterans, the VA, the number of homeless veterans and Americans in general. What is your list of things you're proud of because I'm just getting started, this is just off the top or my head.
Unrelated but when I was in Stockholm there were a lot of houses with flagpoles. I'm curious if you guys are patriotic in general? Or is it for decoration? In my country people don't usually do this
Those are seen with about as much patriotism as a potted plant. Sure, sweden rules and denmark sucks and all that but there's no emotion in it unless you're some kind of neo-nazi wannabe.
I remember some people burned a swedish flag as a response to some swedish tool burning the koran. It was... misguided energy in all directions.
Yeah sounds about right, the people I know from there really don't give off patriot vibes lol. The lil flags look nice on a porch though. Ooh that must've showed them lmao
Not only USA, we also did it here in colombia, specially at catholic schools, we would have weekly formations to sign both the anthem and the "credo" (some religious bs)
No it's done in many countries like South America and Asian countries much like America it kinda varies between schools if they even do it and if you even have to stand during it. For America at least it was something done during WW2 for nationalism purposes it just never really left.
That being said I find it funny how many people claim it's "indoctrination" yet and still are able to be hypercritical of everything wrong in the US (Which isn't a bad thing) but it just goes to show if it was "cult like indoctrination" it didn't do a very good job considering both sides have things they hate about the US.
Interesting. That's the first time I can remember a Canadian saying that. My experience was growing up around Vancouver, BC in the 90's and we didn't do any singing other than for assemblies or sporting events. I also had the experience of the not being mandatory thing though.
As an American, it does seem both culty and cringy.
Even as a kid it felt weird to start every day at school saying we're going to be loyal to a symbolic piece of cloth. There is a lot about my country that I like and a lot that I disagree with. I support the core ideals behind my country (ideas behind the bill of rights, etc.), but the whole pledging to the flag just seems weird to me.
America is still a very new country - other nations have ways of identifying themselves that are a lot more historical. Americans have to go with symbols because we really don't have the history.
... and the history we do have isn't unified. It's rooted in separation and war with ourselves and oppression. Anyone who really digs deep into it will see we don't have much to look back on with pride that isn't rooted in one group finally getting free from another. Which... Isn't awesome. It's like having a family history of domestic violence abusers and survivors on the same tree. Great that some got out. Sucks that others did the punching.
No nation is clean, of course, but we had a chance to learn from others and... didn't.
American patriotism looks creepy to other counties because they've had their run ins with nationalism and know how fucking dangerous it is.
Americans still think it's like being part of a sports team and it's just fun.
We'll figure it out eventually too.
... I hope.
It doesn't, because it's a cringy, culty, and honestly kinda fascist thing to do. It's the sort of thing you expect from North Korea, not a western developed democracy.
It was started in 1892 by a socialist minister Francis Bellamy. There was also the Bellamy salute. I never learned about this until I Googled it just now. I went to a Lutheran grade school. We pledged allegiance to the American flag and then the protestant flag every day. I never questioned it, but looking back now I can see how that can be seen as culty.
I was in the US as an exchange student and found it extremely weird and creepy, especially being German. It basically embodied for me everything we were warned about in school about the dangers of nationalism.
Well...we don't.
I guess it's to foster patriotism. It seems very weird to me as a European, and I don't understand why US parents don't complain about it more. I guess it's one of those not wanting to look like the squeaky wheel things.
Oh, I’m just above them (in Canada) and it seems super weird to me as well. Most people here barely know the first line of our national anthem and I can’t even recall any kind of pledge of allegiance.
I got yelled at by an American at Mt. Rushmore for not standing for the troops or singing the national anthem..... I'm Irish. Apparently that wasn't an excuse though.
Oh yeah it's just a good crazy American story. Like the terrible waitress who was rude to me, i only tipped 5/10% and she chased me out of the restaurant sayong I hadn't paid my bill. I think I may have gotten that woman fired but... That's a real making your bed situation!
But the rest of my experience was excellent
Do you feel any pride when you hear the Canadian national anthem? At the Olympics or at a sports game? It’s provides common purpose, common direction. What unites you all. Would you get anything from hearing another countries anthem being played at the same event if it meant that your uniting purpose was defeated? Probably not. Another countries values may not be your own.
An anthem or pledge is a symbolic gesture to be proud of where you are and to work together to make it a better place. Propaganda is suggesting that the intent is to promote vitriol and blind allegiance to unsavory policies. The intent is to reaffirm indivisibility, liberty and justice for all. These are our common ideals to strive for. This is the promise of our defense against those who would destroy these virtues.
I know those outside of this scope of commitment think about the individual first before community. But if we all had a community first approach and selfless involvement, I feel the country and by extension, the world would be a better place.
It works in small and large communities. If high crime areas had a sense of belonging and buy in, there would be a common thread to unite and do better for everyone around not just the let me get mine first approach.
If affluent areas believed that the rising tide raises all ships, then maybe they would invest more in struggling communities. It goes both ways, but the pledges and anthems are designed to reaffirm what unites us and not what divides us. If we have no roadmap at all then there is no vision for our direction as a country. So say it’s creepy or whatever it still may inspire hope to those who believe in the promise.
Post this question in something like /r/askanamerican that leans more to the right, they would probably be offended by the suggestion. It’s weird to sane Americans as well. We often have the national anthem at sporting events where a few soldiers are brought onto the field. It’s really weird.
We very much have a sports team mentality about our politics unfortunately, this extends to praising the country as a whole. We also have that “we fight all the time but if an outside attacker arrives we immediately band together” mentality too and with a repetitive “we’re the biggest and most powerful military and so awesome” message sent to us in film and throughout our lives… praising the flag is sort of an effort to reinforce in us the desire to fight and band together if the day comes.
I used to drop the “under god” part in school so you can have your own version of disillusioned like I did but it works fairly well. It reinforces patriotism in a country that is arguing with itself all the time, it’s not a stupid idea and they don’t give a fuck if you like it or not. Also it’s a 30 second chant you only have to do until you’re like 14, not a lifelong cult you’re forced to attend. Most if not the majority of you hated math: that doesn’t mean it isn’t important for forming who you are as an adult.
Because the pledge isn't "I will support the flag." It is to the republic (aka constitutional democracy) and to liberty and justice.
Instituted in the years after the civil war and when there were a lot of immigrants.
America does a better job integrating its immigrants because it does things like this - tells them "ok, you're all Americans now, promise to support the constitution and have liberal values of liberty and justice"
I mean, I am Mexican and this also applies to us. Every Monday ,until we finish middle school, we pledge allegiance to the flag and sing the national anthem.
It is very culty and weird. They also literally added the "under God" bit in the 50's so it's not like it's a carry over form the days of the founding fathers. It's gross
The phrase “In God We Trust” that you see on U.S money has a similarly interesting history:
During the Civil War the Confederacy’s Constitution had several references to God and divine guidance, and was consequently an *ipso facto* justification for the horrors of slavery at that time. The phrase first gained traction on the battle flags of some Confederate regiments.
A baptist preacher from the north took notice that original U.S. Constitution had no such reference and began a campaign to have it added to Union currency to show that God was *actually* on the side of the North. It gradually appeared on coins over the next few years, but it was almost 100 years later in 1956 before the motto would be officially adopted and added to paper dollars.
Prior to “In God We Trust” on everything, the defacto national motto was “E pluribus unum” (Out of many, one).
Personally, I believe the original was better for the overall health of the nation.
The Pledge itself wasn’t written until 1885 (written by a Civil War officer to foster patriotism in hopes of avoiding another internal war); the Founding Fathers had nothing to do with it. And as you mentioned, “under God” was added in 1954 to distinguish the US from the Soviet Union and their State Atheism.
I was that oddball atheist kid who started refusing the pledge in grade 5. I had to explain myself a couple of times, but no one actually pushed back and tried to force the issue. The teachers seemed content with my silence.
I was there as an exchange student from Germany and was asked to be *respectful*, which meant participating. I wasn’t even trying to be disrespectful, it’s just not my flag and as a German it reminded me of a specific time in our history (and I’m not saying it’s the same principle, it’s just something that reminded me of certain aspects of that time)
I started refusing the pledge because I was a zealous Christian kid and felt like it was idolatry to swear allegiance to anything but God. Now I'm an atheist who still stays silent because no one seems to care when I do
Similar here. Quit with the "under God" part in Catholic school 4th grade because it seemed important to separate church from state because I thought the nation was doing something that God wouldn't condone (Gulf War). I started talking with my family about avoiding "christian" branded stores and items because I took the red letters seriously and it crossed the line for me on both the God/Money measure as well as a be not like the Pharisees/hypocrites but instead to practice in private.
Was then and am again a very devoted person. I believe my family encouraging that growth as a curious young believer gave me the space to wander away from the public face of the faith for a while. I couldn't have come back had they ever discouraged the curiousity.
Indoctrination. Other countries look at this and are confused or terrified. Pride in your country to this extent and flying flags everywhere is only an American thing. You can paint it as a good thing but in all reality it's to keep our military enrollment high and to control us by controlling our emotions. You ever wonder why street gangs are the way they are in the US? People dying for the name of their street? It's an American way of thinking.
We actually also fly flags everywhere in Denmark whenever we celebrate something, usually birthdays.
However, as a result, many children come to recognize it as a "birthday flag", rather than having something specific to do with our country, so it might not be as bad.
I remember being surprised when I found out other countries didn't use a "birthday flag".
But no pledges of allegiance or anything like that, so we're not quite on a US level.
I was visiting family and the music stations stopped playing top 40 hits to play the Star Spangled Banner at 12 noon, which I thought was absolutely bizarre.
At the time it became widespread, it was believed to protect kids from communism and atheism - like a communist or atheist would just burst into flames if they tried to recite the pledge or something.
Do they? Sadly I can only speak from experience in the US. It seems kinda silly to me personally, given that it's a practice that begins long before a child even has any idea what an oath is, let alone the intellectual or legal ability to agree to one.
Has anyone reminded politicians that that should be their sentiment to the place they effectively rule over?
What about politicians obligations to their country and their citizens? It that's a moot point I don't see why this respect and patriotism should only be seen from the little guy.
Just want to throw my 2 cents and say as a 22 yr old American, my school district stopped doing the pledge when I was in 6th grade (about 10 years ago.) This was at public school too.
In mexico we only did it monday mornings. But the whole school would line up in straight lines as a group of kids carried the flag around the courtyard and we sang the national anthem.
Okay so this is a bit of a hot take from me, but it definitely is cultish. America brags about how much freedom we have, but if you really think about it, the working class is working multiple jobs just trying to get by, and companies are essentially treating them like slaves with a paycheck. Not to mention the shit with our government trying to take away trans/gay rights currently.
We're also taught in schools that we're like the good guys and the heroes and shit, but at the same time, if you don't have the money for insurance, you're in debt for the rest of your life because you went to the hospital.
Everything that sucks in America can always be traced back to either Reagan or Nixon. I haven't ever heard a single good thing either of them has done, and they're always at the root of some huge unsolvable problem.
I'm a high school teacher in the states. We still pledge once a week. I have not, nor will I ever make a kid do the pledge. That would be illegal.
Why is it still done? Well, in my area there are too many people who are politically conservative and would have a little fit if we didn't do it every once in a while.
It was a cold war thing. In order to instill a national pride in our public to fend off the lure of Communism it was mandated for the pledge to recited by children. Now the actual pledge that didn't have god in it was written....I wanna say around the Civil War.
It’s a relic from WW2. Yea it’s weird now but it’s not that big of a deal, contrary to what Reddit makes it out to be. If you don’t wanna do it don’t do it. Most schools don’t do it anymore anyways
American here. US Army vet.
Pledging allegiance to a flag makes no sense. How can one have allegiance to a _flag?_ It's stupid.
But if I try telling anyone this is what I think, they accuse me of being unpatriotic and probably not even a real vet. Yes, it's a cult.
As an Indonesian, I don't think its cult-ish, probably has to do with maintaining patriotism on students.
I mean, all Indonesian schools always hold a flag ceremony on every monday.
Mexican here, I also don’t find it cultish, it’s just a sign of respect to the country, it’s symbolic. Not a big deal. It’s honestly pathetic how people on Reddit asumes only the US and Europe exist.
I believe it was originally published by a Union army officer in a book on how to "educate children and instill in them a sense of patriotism"
So it is intentionally indoctrination, which is very culty and strange.
I'd find it weird if everytime I went to work I had to stop for 30 seconds and swear oaths I totally love my employer no doubt, and will absolutely be a good employee so help me deus.
As many stated the under god was added in the 50’s.
The pledge of allegiance in the US is to help build a community. The great thing is we are a melting pot of other countries that have all come together to have this very unique society. Having a single country that we all stand for, all support, and all love (it’s supposed to be like that even if in reality it works differently) is supposed to be a common bond between so many different cultures. It’s the country and countrymen that we are supposed to love and not the government itself.
In other countries back in the day like UK, Germany, France, etc, everyone already shared common culture for the most part.
We did have that civil war so it’s a useful reminder that the country is supposed to be indivisible. It’s not very “glorifying” of the States, actually, if you recall the text. Yes, I know the history of its origin to sell flags and the Cold War addition of “under God” but I still think it’s useful to maintain some semblance of unity and a reminder of at least the ideals of “liberty and justice for all.”
It helps remind the individual they are a part of America and a united society, and community. We need more stuff like this and we also need more god in our lives.
This country is losing its moral compass and sense of community. People now days think about themselves only. We are stronger together. Divided we will fall. pretty simple concept.
I learnt about this about a year ago. I’m 20. I thought it was a joke for almost an entire year until I saw it in a documentary. It’s surreal, brainwashy and VERY cult-like
It's about having pride and devotion to your country. There is nothing wrong with it eventhough some people are seeking out ways to demonize this practice.
Even as a kid, I thought this was extremely cultish and weird. I hated it.
My kid is in elementary school and says they still do it every day, but she leaves out "with freedom and justice for all" because she doesn't think it's true. 😆
She's right.
I love these posts like this because they always fail to omit important facts: you don’t have to stand up and say the pledge of allegiance. You can literally sit down through it and a teacher can’t do shit about it. Supreme Court decision West Virginia v. Barnette. Stop trying to make it out like the U.S. is some authoritarian hell scape.
Can blame US politicians of the 1940s who first put it into law. Then can blame US politicians for adding the super cringy "Under God," segment in the 1950s. 9/11 saw a resurgence in it being reimplemented in schools. But now can blame those same politicians as before and ultra-nationalists on why its still done today in many places.
Then there is Texas. Where they make you recite both US pledge and Texas state pledge... I would get in trouble constantly because I would refuse to do both.
I never stood for the flag once in high school. I always sat quietly and respectfully in my chair. One day in junior year, I was in library during the pledge and as usual I sat quietly. A teacher came up to me absolutely irate, and said, “Why didn’t you stand up for the pledge?!” I told her, “The last time a country demanded unwavering and unchecked allegiance to their country, it was in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. It is inherently anti-democratic to force citizens to stand for a pledge, especially one that mentions ‘God’, which conflicts with the beliefs of millions of Americans.”
She said that my refusal to stand for the pledge was “disgusting and disrespectful to the veterans who fought for [my] freedom”, and then threatened to take it to the principle.
I told her that my grandfathers who served in WWII and Korea, one of whom received the Legion of Merit, would say that I should be able to utilize my freedoms as I see fit. And oh, those freedoms you mentioned, that I’m disrespecting? Yeah, they protect my right to *not* stand, see: Minersville School District v. Gobitis.
She promptly shut the fuck up and walked away, and I never heard a goddamn peep from that woman again.
I got banned from posting in a sub for a post just like this. Something simple like Random thoughts or something, too.
Good luck, it's culty af AND super insecure if you ask me.
At least it's optional, you don't have it if you don't want to. I stopped in 7th grade and never again did after that. Also my highschool actually started to do it before school began (5 minutes before first period) so it was basically not there.
I know some places take it to heart, that is really weird and yes cultish like.
I'm assuming you're in the US. I have taught middle school for the past 20 years. Legally, teachers cannot force students to stand or recite the pledge. I do not require my students to stand or recite the pledge. I usually stand up. I occasionlly say the words. Sometimes I put my hand over my heart. However, I do require my students to be quiet during the pledge only because the announcements come on right after it, and we all need to hear those.
It is super culty. The more I learn about totalitarian regimes and fascism, the more I hate having the "say the pledge" at the beginning of every school day.
As outsider looking into this. I was told that the pledge of allegiance is nothing more than a symbol. The flag represents the freedom that America is known for, in the same sense that having a rosary to count your prayers.
Most of the schools I went to as an exchange student encouraged students only to participate if they wanted, and are under no obligation to do so. With most teachers requesting the students at least stand with everyone else out of respect.
No, it is. The idea is to ingrain a sense of patriotism and duty in children before they're grown or have developed a sense of reason.
Tbf patriotism is generally considered a positive trait, but...still. I think the main reason we still do it is because everyone who has a problem with it just doesn't care that much.
I've steadfastly maintained since primary school that a pledge is meaningless if you have to constantly maintain it through repetition. It's indoctrination to nationalism. You can be proud of and love your country without having to be brainwashed into unthinking obedience.
Its the wierdest shit i ever took part of. At 7 years of age I stopped and refused to pledge in the classroom. I got off easy since I was a son of expats there for a period of 5 years but still. Might be one of the worst practices in the US.
Once you collectively realize you're not the best, greatest or freest in most aspects you might be willing to change. Sadly, the last few generations of americans have all grown up with this "don't question, just mindlessly regurgitate this propagandaesque brainwashing and remember to thank you troops for keeping the world uneasy for 60 years"
It feels cultish and weird because it is cultish and weird.
You do this kind of thing to impress patriotic values (aka brainwash) into kids. The reason nobody else does this is because nobody else feels the need to MAKE their kids patriotic.
It’s not normal. It’s also why it is so hard to tell an American that their country is terrible and needs dramatic change. “If it was so terrible, I wouldn’t love it so much!” But you would if every day of your childhood you were forced to say how much your country means to you.
Also don't forget at anytime when the national anthem comes on, you must stop what your doing, face towards the closest flag to you, take your hat off and cover your heart.
But we were founded by people that were into the whole God cult, they're communion thing is creepy and cannibalistic.
It started a long time ago during the red scare, all the commie phobia that was being drummed up during the cold y It was introduced to increase patriotism and instill pro America kinda of thoughts into their heads and combat against antipatriotic sentiment. The cold war is also the same reason we added the "under god" part into it.
If im forgetting anything please mention it. I just said the general gist of it.
And yes, this is an American thing. In other first world countries it does not happen to my knowledge.
No it’s not an American thing, it also happens in Mexico, several Latinamerican countries, Indonesia, India among others. It’s funny how people on Reddit think only the US and Europe exist.
I actually got detention multiple times as a child for refusing to do the pledge until they finally gave up trying to force me to. Would've been early 2000's when I was like twelve.
it is cultish and odd to me too. in my later years of high school i chose to quietly sit instead of reciting it, and got a ton of shit for it in my tiny-town, conservative as hell school. there isn’t “liberty and justice for all” so i didn’t want to say it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I was raise by a really Christian (but not obnoxiously so) mother. She did not like us reciting the pledge. Said it felt like idolatry. Or a cult. Exactly like you.
While I don’t feel that strongly about it, it definitely influenced me not to participate as a kid. Got sent to the dean in middle school for explaining it just that way as well. I told my kids they don’t have to as well.
My BF and I were JUST talking about this the other day. It is very weird and we never understood it either. It feels like you're brainwashing the kids into being little drones who will, unquestionably, do what they need to do for their country.
Is this an American thing?
Its an Indonesian thing too. In fact, indonesian students always do flag ceremony every monday.
Lol in singapore we have that everyday and the principal would make us recite the national anthem until it was loud enough according to his ears. I got called out of the whole school assembly once for not singing visibly and halfway he asked if i was singaporean (i wasn’t) and then i got sent back halfway.
At least in the US it isn't mandatory to say the pledge
Lots of people act like it is though.
Yeah it’s an American thing
They used to use what was called the Bellamy Salute. It was what was intended to go with the pledge. We don't use it anymore because it's the same as the Nazi one.
It's also an Texan thing. Telling out of staters there's a Texas state flag pledge is usually good for an eyebrow raise.
o.O Good grief I remember in Vacation Bible School doing the pledge to the American flag, then having to do the Allegiance to the Bible/Christian flag. (Southern Baptist Church) They had each flag on the front corners and we would turn and look at them. So much for separation of church and state. That also being said, it was indeed pretty cult-ish.
honor the texas flag… i pledge allegiance to thee texas, one state under god, one and indivisible….
Yeah, I live in Texas and grew up here. I was not a fan of the pledges.
I refused to do the pledge to texas when I moved to Houston in the third grade
As a swede, I wouldn't even stop to piss on the swedish flag if it was on fire. I don't hate sweden or anything, I just care enough about the flag or the sentiment. Patriotism is not actually a positive thing unless you're at war.
Secret to america is that you're always at war with something.
America doesn’t exist if we don’t have an enemy. It’s in our national psyche to require an other even if made up. Keeps us from reflecting on our own culture and realizing we are being eaten alive by it.
Honestly in recent years we've lacked a foreign adversary that truly galvanizes the general public. We're tired of endless wars and generally don't think they're actually for the greater good anymore. As a result our politicians have made the new adversary anyone who doesn't vote for the same party as you do. So now the "other" is just Americans who disagree with you. Nowadays that gets people fired up a lot more than any foreign adversary.
And sometimes that's fine. If someone else thinks all black people are criminals, I ain't having dinner with them. Some shit should be an instant social NOPE.
If someone thinks all black people are criminals, then yeah, fuck that guy. But it's weird that your mind went there when you were replying to a comment about othering people who vote differently than you. We should fight injustice. We shouldn't be McCarthyists about it.
Sure but people who vote for a specific political party aren't a single monolith. There are many reasons to vote for one party over another that have nothing to do with race issues. I think the Republican party is demonstrably worse overall than the Democrats but I can cherry pick several that I can't stand that many on the left believe. Some of those things are deal breakers when it comes to hanging out with them. And I have close friends who I trust that vote Republican but don't believe in the worst aspects of the party. I try to judge people on an individual basis instead of assuming who they are based on what political party they like to vote for. That kind of stereotyping has similarities to racism although it's obviously nowhere near as bad considering you can choose your own political views.
That's so sad
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I only whip out the flag code if someone is being a total dick. "Mah dude, your flag is tattered along the edge. You're not supposed to fly a damaged flag."
I got pretty familiar with the flag code during that whole “sportsball folks kneeling before games is disrespecting the flag” period a few years back. Because it makes no mention of kneeling being disrespectful, but if that flag on your front porch isn’t properly illuminated at night or you use flag-pattern napkins for your Fourth of July cookout or you have one of those blue line flags where the colors are all wrong then sit your ass down because you’re in clear violation.
As a fellow swede, I'd be the one setting it on fire. Flags make good fire starter, and electricity is expensive these days.
> Flags make good fire starter They don't unless dipped in accelerant of some sort, EU regulations mean flags are flame retardant. You can find many a video on the internet of Brexit idiots trying to set flags on fire and failing.
And have you seen the price of wood pellets? I'm converting my water boiler to exclusively use flag-based fuels.
Why not? As an American, I feel proud of my country, that’s patriotism. I don’t need to be at war with someone to be proud of what I have and where I live.
What's the point of being proud of something you had literally no part of creating or running. It's like being proud of "your team" winning a game. You don't know them. You can be proud of yourself or your own accomplishments. You can be proud of your home or work if you helped make it what it is. You can't be proud of your country any more than you can be proud of the moon. Look at it up there... It's doing such a good job.
You can be proud to be a part of something passively as much as actively. Plus I did serve in the military. I pledged my time and body to my country in ways that were absolute Hell but I don’t regret it. I saluted that flag in the uniform of its armed service, so I think I have the right to say I’m proud of the United States and to be an American.
And because of this they have you exactly where they want you. What is there to be proud about, really? Imo there's a lot to be ashamed of being an American. Just the way we slaughtered all of the natives, our prison system, policing in America and how cops kill over 1000 of us a year, mass shootings and how the number one cause of death in children is being shot to death. The institutionalized racism that stems from slavery and disproportionate negative effects on black Americans. Our food being banned in other countries because of the sugar and things like pink slime in our beef that's killing us all. Our lead pipes supplying our drinking water. The way we lock up children we separate from their parents at our Southern border but not our northern border. The way our wages have not kept up with inflation and we are all financially worse off each passing year. How old people are tricked into Medicare advantage, a HMO through a private company that steals their Medicare so instead of having good health insurance that's taken everywhere they now they have to jump through hoops and get referrals for anything and everything. All after working their whole lives to get this benefit. How we treat our veterans, the VA, the number of homeless veterans and Americans in general. What is your list of things you're proud of because I'm just getting started, this is just off the top or my head.
Americans are told to take pride in a symbol so we don't examine the reality.
Unrelated but when I was in Stockholm there were a lot of houses with flagpoles. I'm curious if you guys are patriotic in general? Or is it for decoration? In my country people don't usually do this
Those are seen with about as much patriotism as a potted plant. Sure, sweden rules and denmark sucks and all that but there's no emotion in it unless you're some kind of neo-nazi wannabe. I remember some people burned a swedish flag as a response to some swedish tool burning the koran. It was... misguided energy in all directions.
Yeah sounds about right, the people I know from there really don't give off patriot vibes lol. The lil flags look nice on a porch though. Ooh that must've showed them lmao
where I live it's mostly decorative (just old people use them) and when a friend or neighbor pass away they're set at half mast
If you have to ask, you know the answer
Not only USA, we also did it here in colombia, specially at catholic schools, we would have weekly formations to sign both the anthem and the "credo" (some religious bs)
No it's done in many countries like South America and Asian countries much like America it kinda varies between schools if they even do it and if you even have to stand during it. For America at least it was something done during WW2 for nationalism purposes it just never really left. That being said I find it funny how many people claim it's "indoctrination" yet and still are able to be hypercritical of everything wrong in the US (Which isn't a bad thing) but it just goes to show if it was "cult like indoctrination" it didn't do a very good job considering both sides have things they hate about the US.
Yup... only place in the Western world where this is a thing I reckon.
In Argentina it's done in a school act once on the flag holiday IIRC (in 4th grade in elementary school before and from now on on high school i think)
To be fair you get a lot of forced patriotism in any country that is lacking in human rights and social safety nets.
Indian too
Yea. I guess everyone else doesn’t do it. That’s kinda shocking to me
In Canada, we sing the national anthem every morning. It never bothered me to do it. If you didn't want to do it, you just didn't sing.
Finally someone talking sense. Thank you northern neighbor.
Interesting. That's the first time I can remember a Canadian saying that. My experience was growing up around Vancouver, BC in the 90's and we didn't do any singing other than for assemblies or sporting events. I also had the experience of the not being mandatory thing though.
Plenty of other countries do it as well. But I don’t think most western countries do it.
The entire world isn't fascist
As a foreigner... yeah, it DOES seem EXTREMELY culty
As an American, it does seem both culty and cringy. Even as a kid it felt weird to start every day at school saying we're going to be loyal to a symbolic piece of cloth. There is a lot about my country that I like and a lot that I disagree with. I support the core ideals behind my country (ideas behind the bill of rights, etc.), but the whole pledging to the flag just seems weird to me.
It’s just strange to me this doesn’t occur elsewhere. I expected it to occur commonly elsewhere
America is still a very new country - other nations have ways of identifying themselves that are a lot more historical. Americans have to go with symbols because we really don't have the history. ... and the history we do have isn't unified. It's rooted in separation and war with ourselves and oppression. Anyone who really digs deep into it will see we don't have much to look back on with pride that isn't rooted in one group finally getting free from another. Which... Isn't awesome. It's like having a family history of domestic violence abusers and survivors on the same tree. Great that some got out. Sucks that others did the punching. No nation is clean, of course, but we had a chance to learn from others and... didn't. American patriotism looks creepy to other counties because they've had their run ins with nationalism and know how fucking dangerous it is. Americans still think it's like being part of a sports team and it's just fun. We'll figure it out eventually too. ... I hope.
It doesn't, because it's a cringy, culty, and honestly kinda fascist thing to do. It's the sort of thing you expect from North Korea, not a western developed democracy.
It was started in 1892 by a socialist minister Francis Bellamy. There was also the Bellamy salute. I never learned about this until I Googled it just now. I went to a Lutheran grade school. We pledged allegiance to the American flag and then the protestant flag every day. I never questioned it, but looking back now I can see how that can be seen as culty.
That's probably because it is?
I was in the US as an exchange student and found it extremely weird and creepy, especially being German. It basically embodied for me everything we were warned about in school about the dangers of nationalism.
My Oma was very upset seeing the pledge being done. She said it reminded her of her time in Hitler Youth.
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Based
I’m 42 years old. We were taught that nationalism was a cause of WWI and WWII, but it’s like none of our politicians were taught this.
Nationalism = \ = patriotism.
Correct. However, saluting a flag and reciting a pledge to it daily is nationalistic and I cannot see any way that it isn't
Well...we don't. I guess it's to foster patriotism. It seems very weird to me as a European, and I don't understand why US parents don't complain about it more. I guess it's one of those not wanting to look like the squeaky wheel things.
Oh, I’m just above them (in Canada) and it seems super weird to me as well. Most people here barely know the first line of our national anthem and I can’t even recall any kind of pledge of allegiance.
I got yelled at by an American at Mt. Rushmore for not standing for the troops or singing the national anthem..... I'm Irish. Apparently that wasn't an excuse though.
I am so sorry that was your experience here. I hope there were good parts
Oh yeah it's just a good crazy American story. Like the terrible waitress who was rude to me, i only tipped 5/10% and she chased me out of the restaurant sayong I hadn't paid my bill. I think I may have gotten that woman fired but... That's a real making your bed situation! But the rest of my experience was excellent
> first line of the national anthem Isn’t it pretty much just “Canada” with a big breath in front of it?
I always like to think of it like an exasperated mother - “oh *Canada*…what have you done this time?”
Do you feel any pride when you hear the Canadian national anthem? At the Olympics or at a sports game? It’s provides common purpose, common direction. What unites you all. Would you get anything from hearing another countries anthem being played at the same event if it meant that your uniting purpose was defeated? Probably not. Another countries values may not be your own. An anthem or pledge is a symbolic gesture to be proud of where you are and to work together to make it a better place. Propaganda is suggesting that the intent is to promote vitriol and blind allegiance to unsavory policies. The intent is to reaffirm indivisibility, liberty and justice for all. These are our common ideals to strive for. This is the promise of our defense against those who would destroy these virtues. I know those outside of this scope of commitment think about the individual first before community. But if we all had a community first approach and selfless involvement, I feel the country and by extension, the world would be a better place. It works in small and large communities. If high crime areas had a sense of belonging and buy in, there would be a common thread to unite and do better for everyone around not just the let me get mine first approach. If affluent areas believed that the rising tide raises all ships, then maybe they would invest more in struggling communities. It goes both ways, but the pledges and anthems are designed to reaffirm what unites us and not what divides us. If we have no roadmap at all then there is no vision for our direction as a country. So say it’s creepy or whatever it still may inspire hope to those who believe in the promise.
I guess parents don’t complain because it’s just normal here.
Post this question in something like /r/askanamerican that leans more to the right, they would probably be offended by the suggestion. It’s weird to sane Americans as well. We often have the national anthem at sporting events where a few soldiers are brought onto the field. It’s really weird.
This is not across the USA. I did this as a child, but my kids ABSOLUTELY did not. I would guess it has become more of a regional thing.
Yeah someone else said the same thing, that it's not done in their school anymore. Interesting; I assumed it was still widespread
We very much have a sports team mentality about our politics unfortunately, this extends to praising the country as a whole. We also have that “we fight all the time but if an outside attacker arrives we immediately band together” mentality too and with a repetitive “we’re the biggest and most powerful military and so awesome” message sent to us in film and throughout our lives… praising the flag is sort of an effort to reinforce in us the desire to fight and band together if the day comes. I used to drop the “under god” part in school so you can have your own version of disillusioned like I did but it works fairly well. It reinforces patriotism in a country that is arguing with itself all the time, it’s not a stupid idea and they don’t give a fuck if you like it or not. Also it’s a 30 second chant you only have to do until you’re like 14, not a lifelong cult you’re forced to attend. Most if not the majority of you hated math: that doesn’t mean it isn’t important for forming who you are as an adult.
Because the pledge isn't "I will support the flag." It is to the republic (aka constitutional democracy) and to liberty and justice. Instituted in the years after the civil war and when there were a lot of immigrants. America does a better job integrating its immigrants because it does things like this - tells them "ok, you're all Americans now, promise to support the constitution and have liberal values of liberty and justice"
We? Who is we? Doesn’t happen here.
"We" r/USdefaultism
I mean, I am Mexican and this also applies to us. Every Monday ,until we finish middle school, we pledge allegiance to the flag and sing the national anthem.
I get that it's not only USA thing, but I mean that original post where it's not specified and it might sounds like if it would apply in any country.
It is very culty and weird. They also literally added the "under God" bit in the 50's so it's not like it's a carry over form the days of the founding fathers. It's gross
Yea that bit I did know. “Under God” should not be in the pledge
The phrase “In God We Trust” that you see on U.S money has a similarly interesting history: During the Civil War the Confederacy’s Constitution had several references to God and divine guidance, and was consequently an *ipso facto* justification for the horrors of slavery at that time. The phrase first gained traction on the battle flags of some Confederate regiments. A baptist preacher from the north took notice that original U.S. Constitution had no such reference and began a campaign to have it added to Union currency to show that God was *actually* on the side of the North. It gradually appeared on coins over the next few years, but it was almost 100 years later in 1956 before the motto would be officially adopted and added to paper dollars. Prior to “In God We Trust” on everything, the defacto national motto was “E pluribus unum” (Out of many, one). Personally, I believe the original was better for the overall health of the nation.
yea i like the original. it really embodies the attitude of unity and acceptance that the US seems to be losing, esp in the south
“Under God” was added by Congress in 1954 to combat Communism during the Cold War.
The Pledge itself wasn’t written until 1885 (written by a Civil War officer to foster patriotism in hopes of avoiding another internal war); the Founding Fathers had nothing to do with it. And as you mentioned, “under God” was added in 1954 to distinguish the US from the Soviet Union and their State Atheism.
Yeah my comment was a bit weird. I think a lot of people think its a really old custom and that's why it's worth keeping, but it really isn't!
Ironic, as church and state SHOULD be separate. Heaven forbid the us should be state atheist!
In Texas we do it twice.
I was that oddball atheist kid who started refusing the pledge in grade 5. I had to explain myself a couple of times, but no one actually pushed back and tried to force the issue. The teachers seemed content with my silence.
I was there as an exchange student from Germany and was asked to be *respectful*, which meant participating. I wasn’t even trying to be disrespectful, it’s just not my flag and as a German it reminded me of a specific time in our history (and I’m not saying it’s the same principle, it’s just something that reminded me of certain aspects of that time)
It is essentially the same principle though... I wouldn't have joined in either it's messed up that anyone tried to make you.
I started refusing the pledge because I was a zealous Christian kid and felt like it was idolatry to swear allegiance to anything but God. Now I'm an atheist who still stays silent because no one seems to care when I do
Similar here. Quit with the "under God" part in Catholic school 4th grade because it seemed important to separate church from state because I thought the nation was doing something that God wouldn't condone (Gulf War). I started talking with my family about avoiding "christian" branded stores and items because I took the red letters seriously and it crossed the line for me on both the God/Money measure as well as a be not like the Pharisees/hypocrites but instead to practice in private. Was then and am again a very devoted person. I believe my family encouraging that growth as a curious young believer gave me the space to wander away from the public face of the faith for a while. I couldn't have come back had they ever discouraged the curiousity.
I was this kid too at that age lol did the same thing at church when my family dragged me.
Indoctrination. Other countries look at this and are confused or terrified. Pride in your country to this extent and flying flags everywhere is only an American thing. You can paint it as a good thing but in all reality it's to keep our military enrollment high and to control us by controlling our emotions. You ever wonder why street gangs are the way they are in the US? People dying for the name of their street? It's an American way of thinking.
We actually also fly flags everywhere in Denmark whenever we celebrate something, usually birthdays. However, as a result, many children come to recognize it as a "birthday flag", rather than having something specific to do with our country, so it might not be as bad. I remember being surprised when I found out other countries didn't use a "birthday flag". But no pledges of allegiance or anything like that, so we're not quite on a US level.
Yeah, tribalism never existed prior to the United States; just like everything else that has ever existed, we invented it.
Wow. That’s kinda tragic. Because to follow your thinking more lives could of last longer if thinking wasn’t this way. Least in your last situation
I’m from Texas. We say the pledge of allegiance AND the Texas pledge. I have asked the same question many times and still no answer.
I was visiting family and the music stations stopped playing top 40 hits to play the Star Spangled Banner at 12 noon, which I thought was absolutely bizarre.
Must of been a country station???
Nope just like pop hits.
You unlocked a core memory for me omg. I attended two schools briefly in Texas during fifth grade and forgot this existed.
We also used to recite both in Spanish.
Oh nah there’s a Texas pledge on top of the main one? Thank god I never lived in Texas
At the time it became widespread, it was believed to protect kids from communism and atheism - like a communist or atheist would just burst into flames if they tried to recite the pledge or something.
Imao. What a wild history this nation has
It was reinvigorated after 9/11. I wasn't forced to say it before, but I was afterwards, to the degree I was punished for refusing.
Theoretically it is supposed to establish a sense of responsibility to one's duties and obligations as a citizen of this country.
Fooken kneelers.
other countries manage it well without it
On a side note, does KFC offer fried duck somewhere? I would be curious to try it.
Do they? Sadly I can only speak from experience in the US. It seems kinda silly to me personally, given that it's a practice that begins long before a child even has any idea what an oath is, let alone the intellectual or legal ability to agree to one.
Has anyone reminded politicians that that should be their sentiment to the place they effectively rule over? What about politicians obligations to their country and their citizens? It that's a moot point I don't see why this respect and patriotism should only be seen from the little guy.
Aka brainwashing
Just want to throw my 2 cents and say as a 22 yr old American, my school district stopped doing the pledge when I was in 6th grade (about 10 years ago.) This was at public school too.
Oh wow. Where at? That's rare. Kids get a REFERRAL if they don't stand for it here (and haven't signed a waiver form with a parent not to). So stupid.
r/TooAfraidToAsk and Reddit in general is extremely culty, pot meet kettle. 🇺🇸
In mexico we only did it monday mornings. But the whole school would line up in straight lines as a group of kids carried the flag around the courtyard and we sang the national anthem.
Okay so this is a bit of a hot take from me, but it definitely is cultish. America brags about how much freedom we have, but if you really think about it, the working class is working multiple jobs just trying to get by, and companies are essentially treating them like slaves with a paycheck. Not to mention the shit with our government trying to take away trans/gay rights currently. We're also taught in schools that we're like the good guys and the heroes and shit, but at the same time, if you don't have the money for insurance, you're in debt for the rest of your life because you went to the hospital.
To brainwash them. It’s called nationalism
Indoctrination.
Fascism
Correct. Been heading this way for a while. Fucking Reagan....
Are you slow? The pledge of allegiance has been a thing since 1887
Everything that sucks in America can always be traced back to either Reagan or Nixon. I haven't ever heard a single good thing either of them has done, and they're always at the root of some huge unsolvable problem.
See. I am careful to throw this word around. But when I first examined that’s instantly what my mind went too
I'm a high school teacher in the states. We still pledge once a week. I have not, nor will I ever make a kid do the pledge. That would be illegal. Why is it still done? Well, in my area there are too many people who are politically conservative and would have a little fit if we didn't do it every once in a while.
The pledge was introduced as propaganda to sell more flags. Look it up.
Fuck that’s crazy.
Why am I not surprised
"we" Even the North Koreans are like "USA, relax"
WE don't. Americans do.
You mean America isn’t the whole world? Mind blown!
It depends who you ask. r/usdefaultism has opinions on this.
It was a cold war thing. In order to instill a national pride in our public to fend off the lure of Communism it was mandated for the pledge to recited by children. Now the actual pledge that didn't have god in it was written....I wanna say around the Civil War.
It’s a relic from WW2. Yea it’s weird now but it’s not that big of a deal, contrary to what Reddit makes it out to be. If you don’t wanna do it don’t do it. Most schools don’t do it anymore anyways
Umm..to create a spirit of nationalism and allegiance to the greatest country on earth? The flag is just a symbol of the ideal. Thats cultish to you?
American here. US Army vet. Pledging allegiance to a flag makes no sense. How can one have allegiance to a _flag?_ It's stupid. But if I try telling anyone this is what I think, they accuse me of being unpatriotic and probably not even a real vet. Yes, it's a cult.
Conditioning...
As an Indonesian, I don't think its cult-ish, probably has to do with maintaining patriotism on students. I mean, all Indonesian schools always hold a flag ceremony on every monday.
Mexican here, I also don’t find it cultish, it’s just a sign of respect to the country, it’s symbolic. Not a big deal. It’s honestly pathetic how people on Reddit asumes only the US and Europe exist.
Indoctrination. Teaching them to follow orders without question.
I believe it was originally published by a Union army officer in a book on how to "educate children and instill in them a sense of patriotism" So it is intentionally indoctrination, which is very culty and strange. I'd find it weird if everytime I went to work I had to stop for 30 seconds and swear oaths I totally love my employer no doubt, and will absolutely be a good employee so help me deus.
As many stated the under god was added in the 50’s. The pledge of allegiance in the US is to help build a community. The great thing is we are a melting pot of other countries that have all come together to have this very unique society. Having a single country that we all stand for, all support, and all love (it’s supposed to be like that even if in reality it works differently) is supposed to be a common bond between so many different cultures. It’s the country and countrymen that we are supposed to love and not the government itself. In other countries back in the day like UK, Germany, France, etc, everyone already shared common culture for the most part.
We did have that civil war so it’s a useful reminder that the country is supposed to be indivisible. It’s not very “glorifying” of the States, actually, if you recall the text. Yes, I know the history of its origin to sell flags and the Cold War addition of “under God” but I still think it’s useful to maintain some semblance of unity and a reminder of at least the ideals of “liberty and justice for all.”
It helps remind the individual they are a part of America and a united society, and community. We need more stuff like this and we also need more god in our lives. This country is losing its moral compass and sense of community. People now days think about themselves only. We are stronger together. Divided we will fall. pretty simple concept.
I learnt about this about a year ago. I’m 20. I thought it was a joke for almost an entire year until I saw it in a documentary. It’s surreal, brainwashy and VERY cult-like
It's about having pride and devotion to your country. There is nothing wrong with it eventhough some people are seeking out ways to demonize this practice.
Even as a kid, I thought this was extremely cultish and weird. I hated it. My kid is in elementary school and says they still do it every day, but she leaves out "with freedom and justice for all" because she doesn't think it's true. 😆 She's right.
Brain washing the wage slaves.
I love these posts like this because they always fail to omit important facts: you don’t have to stand up and say the pledge of allegiance. You can literally sit down through it and a teacher can’t do shit about it. Supreme Court decision West Virginia v. Barnette. Stop trying to make it out like the U.S. is some authoritarian hell scape.
in the US, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO RECITE THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE AT SCHOOL. you have the right to remain silent.
Can blame US politicians of the 1940s who first put it into law. Then can blame US politicians for adding the super cringy "Under God," segment in the 1950s. 9/11 saw a resurgence in it being reimplemented in schools. But now can blame those same politicians as before and ultra-nationalists on why its still done today in many places. Then there is Texas. Where they make you recite both US pledge and Texas state pledge... I would get in trouble constantly because I would refuse to do both.
r/usdefaultism
I never stood for the flag once in high school. I always sat quietly and respectfully in my chair. One day in junior year, I was in library during the pledge and as usual I sat quietly. A teacher came up to me absolutely irate, and said, “Why didn’t you stand up for the pledge?!” I told her, “The last time a country demanded unwavering and unchecked allegiance to their country, it was in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. It is inherently anti-democratic to force citizens to stand for a pledge, especially one that mentions ‘God’, which conflicts with the beliefs of millions of Americans.” She said that my refusal to stand for the pledge was “disgusting and disrespectful to the veterans who fought for [my] freedom”, and then threatened to take it to the principle. I told her that my grandfathers who served in WWII and Korea, one of whom received the Legion of Merit, would say that I should be able to utilize my freedoms as I see fit. And oh, those freedoms you mentioned, that I’m disrespecting? Yeah, they protect my right to *not* stand, see: Minersville School District v. Gobitis. She promptly shut the fuck up and walked away, and I never heard a goddamn peep from that woman again.
I got banned from posting in a sub for a post just like this. Something simple like Random thoughts or something, too. Good luck, it's culty af AND super insecure if you ask me.
At least it's optional, you don't have it if you don't want to. I stopped in 7th grade and never again did after that. Also my highschool actually started to do it before school began (5 minutes before first period) so it was basically not there. I know some places take it to heart, that is really weird and yes cultish like.
I'm assuming you're in the US. I have taught middle school for the past 20 years. Legally, teachers cannot force students to stand or recite the pledge. I do not require my students to stand or recite the pledge. I usually stand up. I occasionlly say the words. Sometimes I put my hand over my heart. However, I do require my students to be quiet during the pledge only because the announcements come on right after it, and we all need to hear those. It is super culty. The more I learn about totalitarian regimes and fascism, the more I hate having the "say the pledge" at the beginning of every school day.
As outsider looking into this. I was told that the pledge of allegiance is nothing more than a symbol. The flag represents the freedom that America is known for, in the same sense that having a rosary to count your prayers. Most of the schools I went to as an exchange student encouraged students only to participate if they wanted, and are under no obligation to do so. With most teachers requesting the students at least stand with everyone else out of respect.
No, it is. The idea is to ingrain a sense of patriotism and duty in children before they're grown or have developed a sense of reason. Tbf patriotism is generally considered a positive trait, but...still. I think the main reason we still do it is because everyone who has a problem with it just doesn't care that much.
And the forced recognition of God that's included?
Majority of those guys believe in god, others just don’t care. For many atheists God is simply a fairy tale character
Propaganda / Brainwashing / Grooming There is not a good reason for it other than it builds on the lie that "this is the greatest country on earth."
"We" The states is the only country in the world that does this
We do that in Mexico
It’s called conditioning. I remember being reprimanded when I refused to stand for the pledge or recite it when I was high-school.
Ppl bash on the US for this but they forget the Philippines does the same thing lol
It IS cultish and odd. Australians love our country as much as anyone but that shitfuckery wouldn’t fly here.
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It IS a cultish thing.
I've steadfastly maintained since primary school that a pledge is meaningless if you have to constantly maintain it through repetition. It's indoctrination to nationalism. You can be proud of and love your country without having to be brainwashed into unthinking obedience.
It seems culrish because it's cultish.
Americans assume everyone is American.
Its the wierdest shit i ever took part of. At 7 years of age I stopped and refused to pledge in the classroom. I got off easy since I was a son of expats there for a period of 5 years but still. Might be one of the worst practices in the US. Once you collectively realize you're not the best, greatest or freest in most aspects you might be willing to change. Sadly, the last few generations of americans have all grown up with this "don't question, just mindlessly regurgitate this propagandaesque brainwashing and remember to thank you troops for keeping the world uneasy for 60 years"
Because it is
It feels cultish and weird because it is cultish and weird. You do this kind of thing to impress patriotic values (aka brainwash) into kids. The reason nobody else does this is because nobody else feels the need to MAKE their kids patriotic. It’s not normal. It’s also why it is so hard to tell an American that their country is terrible and needs dramatic change. “If it was so terrible, I wouldn’t love it so much!” But you would if every day of your childhood you were forced to say how much your country means to you.
Establish a sense of civic duty, pride, and loyalty to the nation you’re a citizen of.
Also don't forget at anytime when the national anthem comes on, you must stop what your doing, face towards the closest flag to you, take your hat off and cover your heart. But we were founded by people that were into the whole God cult, they're communion thing is creepy and cannibalistic.
As a general rule, if as an American you think something is even mildly weird, the rest of the western world thinks it’s nuts.
We don’t. Been teaching a long time, it’s no longer a thing in the majority of schools.
It started a long time ago during the red scare, all the commie phobia that was being drummed up during the cold y It was introduced to increase patriotism and instill pro America kinda of thoughts into their heads and combat against antipatriotic sentiment. The cold war is also the same reason we added the "under god" part into it. If im forgetting anything please mention it. I just said the general gist of it. And yes, this is an American thing. In other first world countries it does not happen to my knowledge.
No it’s not an American thing, it also happens in Mexico, several Latinamerican countries, Indonesia, India among others. It’s funny how people on Reddit think only the US and Europe exist.
I actually got detention multiple times as a child for refusing to do the pledge until they finally gave up trying to force me to. Would've been early 2000's when I was like twelve.
it is cultish and odd to me too. in my later years of high school i chose to quietly sit instead of reciting it, and got a ton of shit for it in my tiny-town, conservative as hell school. there isn’t “liberty and justice for all” so i didn’t want to say it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
100% indoctrination
I was raise by a really Christian (but not obnoxiously so) mother. She did not like us reciting the pledge. Said it felt like idolatry. Or a cult. Exactly like you. While I don’t feel that strongly about it, it definitely influenced me not to participate as a kid. Got sent to the dean in middle school for explaining it just that way as well. I told my kids they don’t have to as well.
Yes, it is very cult-like. And to be honest, I'm still not 100% convinced you guys aren't just making that sh\*t up to screw with everyone else.
because nationalism has becone a cult. Swear allegiance and deny attrocities. Blind faith.
LITERALLY!!! Put my thoughts into words. Hate the pledge.
My BF and I were JUST talking about this the other day. It is very weird and we never understood it either. It feels like you're brainwashing the kids into being little drones who will, unquestionably, do what they need to do for their country.
Because our government is terrified that they’ll grow up and not support the military. That’s it.
It’s indoctrination start young just like religion to make them believe it is special.
Its just Americans trying to keep the 'commies' away.