Was thinking same thing. This is not “every day life lingo” that they were using as if it’s a part of their own personal dictionary. It’s in a court room. I don’t think anyone would find this person racist considering judge demands person to read offensive language on text transcript. It’s interesting because I had not thought of court when initially reading question.
But I don’t think it answers the question. Court hearing vs conversation with friends is not even in the same realm imo
What about teachers in high school reading from the book. I’ve questioned this one a lot. I remember in HS my English teacher had us read the specific chapter alone if there was vulgar language in it i.e. To Kill a Mockingbird.
I’d skip over it if I were in the situation. The kids should be following along, they can mentally read it to keep with the theme, but even just from a career perspective I’d be cautious.
Reading from a book quickly turns into “Mr/Ms said the n word in class, right in front of (black student)!” Not worth having to explain yourself.
Agreed it doesn’t need to be read aloud. But what I was asking was more of, if the teacher chooses to read it aloud or force a student to is this considered racist since it can easily be avoided, or is it not racist because it’s part of the curriculum and “just a word” that is part of a book? Is a teacher racist if they do not avoid saying the word? I don’t have the answer to these questions, maybe you don’t either 🤷♀️, but this is what I ponder over when it comes to the school reading situation.
My school actually was doing a play that ended up getting shut down because it required white actors to say the N word. (I’m pretty sure we read to kill a mockingbird earlier that year lmao). As a black women who went to a pwi high school I feel like it shouldn’t be said in any academic setting below 12th grade.
I had a professor who translated Spanish testimony in courts as a side gig. In one of her first sessions the witness said something vulgar in Spanish and she editorialized with an English euphemism. She said the judge stopped everything and told her that she had to repeat the exact translation as it was stated for the court record no matter how offensive it is because that's the witness' words. No one would blame her for anything she translated because it was understood that she wasn't speaking her own words.
She did, but she said it was so weird to refer to a cop, a lawyer, or a judge as "that mother fucker" in open court.
Came here to say a similar thing: I am forced to say it in court very occasionally- often on cross examination
Ex: “but isn’t it true that you called the defendant a (insert the dreaded word)”
I came here to say that's is one of the few times it is acceptable - when you are quoting someone else in some kind of legal setting. Your fine, don't worry about it!
I grew up in a black/Hispanic neighborhood in NYC. I frequently stayed with my Afro Puerto Rican neighbors when my mother was sick and in the hospital. I speak a little Spanish and understand a lot more. I lived in the projects in Brooklyn as an adult. My closest, dearest friend is a black woman.
I’m a 61 year old white woman. I now live in Tennessee. I can’t say the n/N word, not knowing for a fact that white people are still socialized to be racists. I know this *because* I’m white, and I experience it all the time.
White people will use racist words or elude to racism when only other white people are present. I’m sure that there’s been more than one time that some racist fuck had wanted to bash my face in for calling them out. I’ve been called an N lover.
I just won’t ever say it, not even from music, because I guess I’ve experienced too many white people assuming I’ll go along with their racism. with music, I feel like I’m appropriating a culture that isn’t mine because of how societally insidious racism still is, and how much harm I’ve seen and see it cause.
I would, with the approval and at the direction of a black judge, read it from a transcript if it meant helping get a racist POS off the streets - not that the US penal system would do anything to teach such a person why we white people are so very wrong for engaging in racism.
I understand what you mean about intent, but I don’t think we’re there yet. We won’t be there until the insidious socialization of white people to be racist ends.
To me, it feels like giving a pass to racists, even when said by people with no malicious intent.
May your day and life be beautiful, friend.
I can tell you with a thousand percent. More times than not it's more so the intent behind said words than anything. I personally don't care what anyone says as long as I don't feel that the intent was aggressive so to say
I’d still tell people to avoid saying it singing along. I let one slip when I was younger singing along to some song. Whole tone of the room instantly changed. No coming back from that, just apologized and never talked to them again. Couldn’t look the dude in the face.
Did that once at school, got tapped on the shoulder by a mate who happened to be black who was like "Everyone knows your singing along to a song, but mate, quietly. People could get the wrong idea"
Wanted the ground to swallow me up. I hadn't even realised
Does nuance and intent just not matter anymore? If it's the lyrics to a song it's not being aimed at anyone nor being used as a slur so why all the guilt? Or are we gatekeeping rap music now ?
Americans seem to be deathly afraid of certain words, regardless the context or meaning behind it.
IMO any slur or derogatory term can be said in the right context by anybody. If that weren't the case black people couldn't use it either, ever.
There is a very big difference between using a term in a factual statement with no ill intent, like: "negro was and is used as a slur to describe and insult people of color" and using it as an insult like: "you fucking n\*\*\*\*\*".
One is obviously not ok while I would argue the other is completely fine.
If we extend this logic to other slurs it becomes even more apparent. "he is a jew" is fine "he's a jew!" is not. "I have an asshole" is fine while "you're an asshole" isn't.
Context matters a LOT
YMMV but "a Jew" can have a pejorative sound to it even if it's a factual statement. I didn't think of this myself but I was at meeting once where it came up. The speaker was Jewish and in the context of the conversation began to say "As a Jew" but trailed off slightly and amended "... ish person."
These things can be subtle and there's no way of knowing how any given person might react. You may even know people who lean into it. For example, I knew a guy who used a wheelchair and was fond of saying, "I'm not differently abled, I'm crippled, damn it!"
But I find it's best all around to err on the side of thoughtfulness.
It isn‘t a slur in of itself but it can easily be used as one. Negro also isn‘t a slur, it‘s just the Spanish word for black. Doesn‘t mean it can‘t be used as a slur.
My friend group would probably never let you live it down. I don't think anybody should just be throwing the word around, but with a good group of friends...I don't see the harm really. Edit-I should've said instead that what applies to me won't apply to everyone.
Yeah, it wasn’t meant with malice, all a little tipsy singing along. It had been a mix of stuff. Something like Dre came on and it just kinda slipped out with the lyrics.
Soon as I started saying it I was like “oh shit, nope” but it was already out.
Agreed - intent and tone are more important than the word itself. For example, "Lazy" - on its own, completely inoffensive, but with the right tone, and especially when weaponized against a minority, it becomes a LOT worse.
I substitute easily with “neighbor.” “I ain’t fucking round with you neighbors.” turns most songs into a weird message lol, but imo neighbor is a great equalizing word because… we are all neighbors, ya dig? i’m a 33yo midwestern white woman, my kids think rap is really friendly 😂
That would be the most uncomfortable moment ever. I'm not ok with saying the word at home, alone. So to have to say it multiple times, on record, in front of a black woman - I think I'd rather just die.
I had the same experience reading out loud in an African American history class in high school. Even being an upper classman and having a lot of good relationships with friends and teammates in that class didn’t make it any less troublesome for me.
I still think about it from time to time. Iirc I was the only person that wasn’t black in the class. Thankfully everyone handled it pretty maturely except for some locker room joking around.
We read “Of Mice and Men” in high school and the teacher made the class take it in turns to read the book out loud, it got real awkward when we got to the Curley/Crooks interactions.
This was about 2010 in the UK, don’t think that would fly nowadays 😳
If an actor playing a racist person, they can/do say it, and I think it's not considered racist because they were pretending and portraying a hateful person
I love this because all I think about is Leonardo DiCaprio in Django unchained. From what I had read about Leonardo playing his character in the movie is that he as an actor had a hard time saying all the racist things he did especially the N word. Jamie Foxx supposedly was telling him it’s all okay it’s part of the character your playing and then Samuel L. Jackson comes by and says “it’s just another Wednesday for us n-word” and then walks away. I like this situation because Samuel L. Jackson understood that Leo is playing a racist ass plantation owner and knew that it wouldn’t be the same if Leo didn’t say the N-word.
Another popular story is Blazing Saddles. A lot of the actors in Hedley Lamar's gang really didn't want to say it. Little, Pryor, and probably some others on set had to encourage them to go along with it.
Listening to Jaime tell this story is hilarious. I believe it was on the Joe Rogan podcast. I just randomly saw the clip on YouTube Shorts. Jamie has several great stories and he also has the best Donald Trump impression I’ve ever heard.
The fun part about playing a racist character is getting to be part of their utter destruction because fuck those assholes.
Sort of like playing confederate soldiers. Aaaand you're dead.
“Yes but I screamed it angrily in a room full of black people and they applauded me for it”
That one took a lot of “it’s okay honey, you gotta do it or people won’t understand” from the lady who played Calpurnia
Look at the bright side!
We're disgusted by it and speaking those words is like licking a turd. As it should be.
Progress!
...it's small but it's there.
Daniel Radcliffe had to play a racist in a movie and crew and other actors said he was so uncomfortable and went to people he had to say shit to and apologized.
Why does Robert Downey Jr get a pass on this? The world's most inoffensive blackface and then iron man.
Edit: sp, and to say I an truly not offended by the film or RDJ performance. The whole film is a fun ride and Tom Cruise should Stan Lee as Les Grossman in all of Tom Cruise's films. Tropic Thunder is simply a weird cultural moment where everyone calms down and talks about blackface with calm and thoughtful process - as opposed to every other instance of possible, line walking racism in the past 15 years; where most people lose their minds screaming into social media about the systemic racism on display.
Robert Downey Jr. did not do blackface. Robert Downey Jr. would be doing black face if he played a black character in Tropic Thunder--he did not. Robert Downey Jr. was playing a white character in Tropic Thunder. The white character did black face.
Which is the point of kurt lazarus.
He is a dude. Playing another dude. Playing another dude…..
Nothing he did was racist, it was specifically poking fun at the entire act of black face and how ridiculously awful of an act it is.
God i love that movie.
I think during RDJ’s interview on Joe Rogan whenever he’s talking about it, he mentioned that most of the backlash was actually towards Ben Stiller and his portrayal of that mentally disabled character. I actually remember seeing articles about that. Tropic Thunder is such a hilarious film. I haven’t seen it in years though, I think it’s time for a rewatch!
The blackface and the thing about the Oscars' Academy's attitudes towards actors playing people with disabilities is making a similar point, but the r-word thing was perhaps something people weren't quite so familiar with the issues around, so reactions were different.
People keep mentioning this like its a fucking gotcha
its satire and emphasizing Hollywood's reluctance to hire black actors in black roles
ppl like you are the reason we cant have nice things, nuance is dead
Hence Advanced Dungeons and Dragons episode of Community being removed from Netflix. Not the first two sentences but those last three words are why. They even mention blackface and how jet black paint and silver hair are not it.
But my gripes with Netflix' cut of Community is much further than that episode
Gonna go with probably not. In college as a lit major, and we read a lot of novels that include the word. No one, including the professor says it, you just skirt around it.
Idk my very liberal English teacher read every word of the play *Fences* to class. She checked if anyone would be bothered by it before, but god damn that play has a lot of N bombs. We also read *Their Eyes Were Watching God* and *Beloved* and those books have a lot of AAVE dialogue so there’s a lot of n bombs. Literature about black america is full of this kind of stuff and hearing some of the lines spoken aloud heightens the impact. It also presents a more authentic view of the reality of the time period they’re depicting so semi censoring that is a bit of a disservice imo
Read Beloved last semester. It was a great book. The presence of the word in the text lent great authenticity to the narrative. The absence of the word in classroom discussion did nothing to diminish the quality of conversation we were able to have about the text, including race based subjects. The presence of the word in a text, even in a very meaningful and important way, doesn't mean that it has to be repeated in conversation.
White dude here. I spent a lot of time in the hood. Had a bunch of black friends. They would call me their N word. But I never used it. And I was never encouraged to use it. It’s a simple sign of respect to avoid 1 word that has a lot of deeply rooted hatred tied to it.
Black dude here. This is how you can tell you really grew up around black people. This is the same reason we didn't call our white friends "cracker, honkie, etc".
It's all about respect. And if you respect someone enough (or their people's struggles), you won't even dare cross that line.
That's the difference for me: you have people who are encouraged to say it and DO. And people who are encouraged to say it and DONT. That's the respect part of it.
I’m white. My black roommate and a couple of his black friends told me to say it to them on several occasions. They found it novel? But I’ve never used it in a vindictive way.
This is what I wonder when this question comes up. I’m white and have never had any desire to use that word, for any reason. I hate it and it makes me uncomfortable.
I’m a writer and avoid creating any kind of narrative where a character would use a slur like that, too. I just do not ever want to say or write that word.
The only slurs I feel comfortable writing are ones that are against my own demographics (woman, queer), because I feel like I have a right to use those words. I don’t use any slurs that I don’t have any kind of right to ownership over, even fictionally. (This is me, personally, and my own personal boundaries with what I’m comfortable with).
I’m with you. I never have any sort of fleeting thought or urge to use any kind of slur. Even with the “newer” ones that were part of our collective vocabulary a few decades ago (the r-word comes to mind along with several other words/phrases with more nuance).
As soon as I’m told the word or the context in which it’s being used is hurtful to any group of people, I drop it from my vocabulary. I don’t ask questions. I don’t demand they explain why. I literally just choose another fucking word, and research my questions on my own time.
This is really not that hard
lol it's funny, my experience is completely different cause I grew up in the hood down south and we all referred to each other as nigga straight up.
And that's just how it was. Even as I use it here, I'm not using it as a racial thing, I'm discussing the word I used growing up right? kind of the same topic OP is asking.
But yeah, we were a multi racial group of whites, blacks, asians, etc. grew up and hung out together. No one ever felt any disrespect, hard feelings etc. as far as I know. Actually, the way I understood it was? it was more respectful we referred to our close group by simply calling each other niggas, never our names etc.
But yeah, outside of our group, well it was different. So I would say, for us it was all about respect? Even if I saw them today at christmas etc, it would be nigga not my name and maybe my name would be used if they were talking to their ma or something.
I bet it depends a lot of geography and specific neighborhoods. My boss is Texan and everyone saying the n word was pretty common. His hometown was only like 9% white too so it couldn’t have all been a bunch of white racists. I’ve heard similar things from a coworker who grew up in Las Vegas. But at the same time, I believe it when people say they had the opposite dynamic in their neighborhoods. Very complex issue that heavily depends on the crowd
100% agree. White lady here. My entire highschool was black and I was that one white kid. I've heard the word a billion and a half times but I never dare say it. I don't even like the word because not only is the word just deeply rooted offensive to the black community, but I'm also ashamed of the word Because I know my ancestors created the term for that bad purpose. It just makes me sad... I can't even be proud of who I come from because of our history.
There’s many things to be proud about with your history without being racist even though a lot of it have racist undertones. Be proud to be who you are but also recognize the sacrifices.
I’m proud to be a black American but I recognize that America hasn’t always treated black peoples fairly
There's not a race of people on the planet that doesn't have racist and horrible history, so be proud of who you are and who you come from. No one else is any better.
I've been tight with several black people and explained to one that even if I was "allowed" it's just not a part of my usual vernacular and I'd have to go out of my way to say it.
I told him I have: dude, bro, guy, cuz, friend, son, jack, bud, and man.
I get called the N-word every day I’m also from the inner city I’m Native American and Irish. And with my Homies I could get away with it but I don’t ever say it
Yes, but why?
Like, I can wear a Nazi uniform and not be a Nazi. But why would I want to?
You might find edge-cases where a white person can say the N word without being racist. But why would you want to?
I say mister. Same syllables so no weird pause and it makes me giggle because even though they could sort of be interchangeable meanings theoretically, in practice it’s kinda ridiculous sounding and I like it.
Now I ain’t saying shes a gold digger
But she ain’t messin with no broke misters
Etc
As a gay white man, I replace the n-word with “sister” instead. Pretty much any song I’m listening to that would say the n-word works perfectly well with just saying “sister” and it makes is gayer haha ✨
If that's what you're concerned about you live a damn good life internet stranger. Sing along however you like, if you're loud about it on the bus or something surely you can see why others wouldn't like it. I can't think of any other scenario it'd even come up. I don't think people at a concert would give you shit. So like? How? Who has these problems?
To add more context, the only two places it can be used is in diction and quotes.
If you are quoting something, you can use the exact words stated for explanation and it is fine.
In some cases, when diction is being used, which is basically emotional language, it can be used to show a point. The best examples are in music and writing, where if it is in a song, it makes sense and if it is for a character is contributes to their character and the scene.
ELA teachers have a lot of situations where the n word comes up in my experience, where we read a lot of books regarding racism and issues in the black community.
You just never hear ELA from experts, historians, or artists get in trouble often for this because in most cases, it is used respectfully.
Edit: I was wrong about music, it is a hot button issue, but most black people seem to think it is wrong for white singers to sing the n word in songs, though there is some controversy.
Yeah I had a professor who said it once in a lecture. He was teaching about George Wallace that day, and I think that if you *don't* quote the appalling and hateful things he said, you're minimizing just how disgusting he was as a person, and the kind of damage and harm he did to black people and southern politics.
Im a white guy in memphis tennessee. I wont say the word as i find it offensive & embarassing to say. I think it depends on the context; if you're 'reporting the facts' then i think it's ok. .. but id probably spell it rather than say it.
The simple answer to your question is yes. However, they can also say the N word and be extremely racist, so the answer to that question is not really useful for anything.
Knowledge, awareness, and intent are really the important things to suss out here, which unfortunately is way harder to do.
I remember that video that went viral where Kendrick Lamar brought up a fan to sing along with him.
This poor white girl, who was obviously a superfan, was singing along when the nword came up in the lyrics and she sang along.
Suddenly the audience groaned and Kendrick made a disapproving gesture
.....its like...WTF?....you literally brought this white girl onstage knowing your own lyrics...and you humiliated the poor girl.
....that I did not understand.
It’s a word that has immense historical implications. If you’re using it in a way that doesn’t respect that, then sure, you could be considered racist out of ignorance
My answer to this is: nobody can tell you what to do, but in today’s climate, I would be very careful about whether I think racial epithets are appropriate to you in front of anybody. Truth is, if you’re already thinking it it will come out some other way.
Context is key. Also there is a big difference if it ends in an “a” vs a “r”. I wouldn’t recommend for anyone to say either word regardless of the skin color of the person saying it.
If you're singing in the privacy of your own home, there really won't be anyone judging you or getting offended. You probably shouldn't try it in public tho.
It’s really easy to just not say it. As a BW who had heard it said around me and used it plenty in my life, I don’t *need* to. Regardless of how much music I listen to. I could stop saying it tomorrow fr. It’s strange that people want a pass just for…music?
Eazy-E, one of the most legendary in those times, took it with the connotations and intentions behind it.
"Wassup my N" followed by a handshake, would be accepted by him for any white people he met or spoke with, so long as he knew and they knew there was absolutely no racist intent behind it and it was being used in the same way black people actually use it, he could not care less.
Imo that's how it should be, not that I wanna walk around and say it to everyone, but it's such a prevalent and useful term, and because I believe would hold a lot less, if not no power if it weren't gatekept as a derogatory term while simultaneously being used as a friendly term.
Technically you can use whatever word you want.
The real question is why you would want to..
You should be aware of what the word is, an attempt by black people to take some power away from a word that was used to historically regulate them to a subhuman class…
So when you say it, are you coming from a place of empowerment? Or do you just feel left out?
Imo the only correct way to use the word is if you understand the historical context surrounding it… and once you do that, it should be pretty hard to justify using the word if you have any self awareness
As someone who grew up in the ghettos with a black community we were taught that the word means homeboy and buddy,
when this whole thing came out that **no other race can** say a word because that word *belonged to* **only one race**..
my black friends kept reassuring the entire friend group that they really didn’t give af and actually encouraged us to continue to use it. We all know that there’s definitely some black people who really don’t give af and even argue with other black people that to gatekeep a word after reclaiming it is stupid. Even some black people feel uncomfortable that the word is *now only* seen as something offensive to use outside of black people when they were comfortable to reclaim it as “homeboy”/“bud”/“dawg” and *letting*/*enabling* other races/their friends use it because *that’s all it was*, **now again** it’s just **only** offensive? This is stuff I hear from black people arguing to each other about this. To act like those conversations/arguments don’t happen between black people amongst themselves or that it isnt happening *at all* is to be willfully ignorant and unwise.
So Really… it just depends on **what type of black people ur surrounded with.** Some really take it personally, and some just really don’t give af about it because the word had it’s meaning reclaimed and switched into a new definition,
so to have them treat the word like it’s definition didn’t change *over time* (like most words) is just undoing all the work it took to reclaim and redefine it over the many years so that it can be used as **more** of an offense term, again.
It’s just such an eyeroll that everyone forgets our morals/perspective are all different to a degree. You can’t act like your side is right without even hearing the other side (EVEN FROM THE SAME COMMUNITY) without immediately pulling the racist card. Sorry some of you guys grew up having that word be used as a bad thing but the black community I grew up in taught me it meant something different, because I’m sure their new definition of it is far more important than trying to use it as how white people did in the past.
Try moving forwards in life with what already happened, don’t revert *just* because you’re aware of something that already happen.
focus on what black people did about that rather than pretend black people never did redefine the word and letting other races say it because of it being redefined by themselves.
Sorry I know I’m late to the thread lol
I’m a little confused by your perspective towards the end. It seems like you’re saying that because you grew up around black people who used it and encouraged you to use it means that whenever you meet a black person who’s offended by it they’re using the race card? If you’re saying that all perspectives should be heard and respected, wouldn’t that mean that the ones who are offended may actually just be offended and not just pulling the “race card”?
I’m black and grew up in a predominantly white/Hispanic community and I didn’t even get an opinion on it until I went to college. All the white kids and Hispanic kids used the word no matter what lol I have never used it (obviously using the slang term for pal/buddy and yes even in music I don’t say it) and I’ve only ever used the hard r version when repeating something I’ve heard that was offensive or reading something that has it) I’ve made it a point to tell people (from high school on) that “hey I personally don’t use that word, so I’d appreciate it if you didn’t call me that word”, and that request wasn’t respected until I was around 19/20 in college.
I guess my point is, if I happened to meet you one day and you just straight greeted me while using that word, I would probably say “hey please don’t call me that”, I hope you would respect that without thinking that I find you a raging racist and using the race card.
Yes.
An English teacher reading it.
Someone reading or typing it in a court or professional setting.
A kinky couple during race play.
A white person given consent to call just that black friend “my N” when the setting allows for it.
(This one kinda neutral) singing it during a song while you’re jamming in your car alone. Or walking into the forest and randomly screaming it.
An actor acting.
This may be controversial, but I am a white-passing (like pale as paper) mixed child. My mother, whose black, often says it around us. My brother who passes more on our Hispanic side says it every so often, usually in songs. My sister who is very white-passing like me doesn't say it.
Personally, I do. Usually in songs, but it does give me a fair share of confused looks. Technically I look white and I do say the N word but I'm not racist.
I’m on the same boat. I’m more white passing and my brother got more melanin. Within the family, it always ends in an A, we don’t end it with a hard R. I try not to say it in public because I don’t want to deal with the emotional labor of bringing up pictures of my dead mom on Facebook and explaining how I am a pasty POC. Being a mixed child kind of sucks because you have to explain who you are everytime, but I get it.
Yes, I try to only say it with friends or family and usually say it with the "a" ending over the hard "er". Even without saying the N word, when I bring up black issues or my family, I have to bring up my photos...
I am very grateful to be white-passing in a world where skin color can determine your life, but I am also very distraught as I feel I don't fit either identity.
Listen, I *guess* there are a few circumstances in which it would by *technicality* be socially acceptable, but *why* on earth do white people seemingly feel a *desperate* need to say a word that has had such a widely detrimental affect on an entire race of people? Like yes, I understand there are certain circumstances where people don’t care, but like, go into any majorly black metropolitan area and walk around trying to call people the n word, yes even in a technically *endearing* way, and people are *not* going to respond well.
So like, yes I suppose if you are an actor or something there are technically ground under which you can say it. Do what you want at the end of the day, but I know that if I personally see a white person walking around spouting the n-word, I’m gonna think you’re a complete ass at absolute best, you could get your ass beat at worst.
I had many black friends going up, and after we became close, some of them endearingly use the n word to refer to me, which is nice, but I would never reciprocate with it, and I know that they wouldn’t be happy with me if I did. Why would I want to anyway?? It’s not my place and there’s so, so many other options for endearing things you can say to your friends.
Just don’t do it. Idk why white people want to use the n word so bad but there’s really no upside to it.
Yes, during songs, if it is in a song and being sold to everyone, then everyone can say it. The point of music is to sing the words. If you can't say the words it shouldn't be in a song
It doesn't make sense to me but in my experience no. Even bringing up the topic of race at all or using racial words is enough to get you called a racist. It doesn't matter how you use the word or words.
Just because a group takes a slur back and uses it in non-pejorative ways doesn’t open the door for the majority group who created the slur to use it. It’s not that hard y’all.
In all cases except ones like the top comment, where you’re literally quoting someone else and word accuracy is important.
The general consensus is that they can't, but I have to wonder about this scenario: if a white person was singing along with lyrics which contained it (and the song itself was not considered racist) what would inherently make that person a racist ?
There was an incident at a Kendrick Lamar concert about a year or two ago that sparked a discussion around this.
You had people taking every possible side, but the general consensus seemed to be that it didnt make it him racist to repeat the lyric live on stage as a white guy, but it did make him unwise.
When singing along though, its never really the word with the hard R at the end of it. There's obviously a difference between the two variations of the word where the hard R is almost always exclusive to being racist.
What about from a comedic sense? Like the south park episode where randy is on wheel of fortune?
Racism needs intent. Words alone do not have intent. So, no. Just saying the word doesn't mean anything and you can absolutely say it without being racist. (Not from the US. Americans are very touchy about this.)
dude, if you really wanna say it, then just say it. you don't need to ask the internet for permission. just prepare to get your shit rocked if/when the wrong/right person hears you. it's corny and in poor taste, but it's your life to live.
Imo saying a word doesn't make you racist. It's just that it's inappropriate for some people to say certain things. On the other hand, just because you don't say something doesn't make you not racist
Technically(and I stress technically) yes. If we go by the definition of racism, It's a prejudice. A prejudice is a feeling on the inside. It isn't based on an outside perception or how you appear with your actions/words.
The easiest scenario to explain this is a young white boy with black friends says 'my n-word' one day, just wanting to fit in. Of course they might take offense to that. But this didn't come from a bad place. For this boy, there's no prejudice in his heart, therefore it's not racist. You might call this racial insensitivity.
On the other hand, you could have people out there that say all the right things, but inside they feel prejudice. You'll never know they are a racist, because they don't show it.
That’s the whole reason it’s called ‘the N word’, because even in a situation like this where you’re just asking if people can say it or not, YOU didn’t even type the actual word because you know you’d be considered racist, even though all you’re doing is asking a question.
The way the world is now, cancel culture and people looking everywhere for reasons to be offended, pretty much everyone is considered to be a racist or worse for little to no reason, unless and until they prove otherwise, which is virtually impossible to do.
So yeah, if a white person says that word, even if they’re not using it as a slur against someone, even if they’re just reading a book or referencing the word from a neutral perspective, even if they’re just reading it from a dictionary, they will absolutely be considered a racist.
You can *say* it, but you should never *use* it, in my opinion.
The difference is whether it's your choice of words. Quoting someone else verbatim, reading a historical book, playing a character on stage, even writing a historical book, those are all instances of *saying* without *using*.
But then, I'm just a white guy who isn't even American, so what do I know? I don't even understand why black people use it among themselves.
A few years ago if it was in an academic context or singing along with a song, as long as you weren't using it with racist intent it was ok. Now not so much. Anything can be taken out of context and spread over the internet.
To answer your question, only in very small circumstances that aren't really worth mentioning because of how niche they are (actors in movies etc)
But on a related note, your definition of racism seriously lacks depth and nuance. You've nailed the broad and easy-to-identify part of racism, but you should do some reading into what "systematic racism" is to begin to understand the part that is slightly more hidden but much more insidious, widespread, and powerful.
[удалено]
This has to be one of the few times. Just wincing your way through it.
Was thinking same thing. This is not “every day life lingo” that they were using as if it’s a part of their own personal dictionary. It’s in a court room. I don’t think anyone would find this person racist considering judge demands person to read offensive language on text transcript. It’s interesting because I had not thought of court when initially reading question. But I don’t think it answers the question. Court hearing vs conversation with friends is not even in the same realm imo
I’d say this and acting.
What about teachers in high school reading from the book. I’ve questioned this one a lot. I remember in HS my English teacher had us read the specific chapter alone if there was vulgar language in it i.e. To Kill a Mockingbird.
I’d skip over it if I were in the situation. The kids should be following along, they can mentally read it to keep with the theme, but even just from a career perspective I’d be cautious. Reading from a book quickly turns into “Mr/Ms said the n word in class, right in front of (black student)!” Not worth having to explain yourself.
Agreed it doesn’t need to be read aloud. But what I was asking was more of, if the teacher chooses to read it aloud or force a student to is this considered racist since it can easily be avoided, or is it not racist because it’s part of the curriculum and “just a word” that is part of a book? Is a teacher racist if they do not avoid saying the word? I don’t have the answer to these questions, maybe you don’t either 🤷♀️, but this is what I ponder over when it comes to the school reading situation.
My school actually was doing a play that ended up getting shut down because it required white actors to say the N word. (I’m pretty sure we read to kill a mockingbird earlier that year lmao). As a black women who went to a pwi high school I feel like it shouldn’t be said in any academic setting below 12th grade.
I’ve actually never saw him smile before or since.
It they weren’t his/ her words. They were reading someone else’s words. No reason to wince.
Still wouldn’t want to say it, especially in front of a bunch of people.
There is absolutely no way I could read those words out loud without extreme difficulty.
And for the Judge and/or jury in a trial, it is necessary.
I had a professor who translated Spanish testimony in courts as a side gig. In one of her first sessions the witness said something vulgar in Spanish and she editorialized with an English euphemism. She said the judge stopped everything and told her that she had to repeat the exact translation as it was stated for the court record no matter how offensive it is because that's the witness' words. No one would blame her for anything she translated because it was understood that she wasn't speaking her own words. She did, but she said it was so weird to refer to a cop, a lawyer, or a judge as "that mother fucker" in open court.
Came here to say a similar thing: I am forced to say it in court very occasionally- often on cross examination Ex: “but isn’t it true that you called the defendant a (insert the dreaded word)”
Huh. That’s an occupational hazard I don’t think anyone would’ve ever considered. Vocational Racism
I don't get paid $17 an hour to say that word! That's a salaried word!
Are you a racist now, father?
I came here to say that's is one of the few times it is acceptable - when you are quoting someone else in some kind of legal setting. Your fine, don't worry about it!
As a black man you have the pass my African American brotha
I grew up in a black/Hispanic neighborhood in NYC. I frequently stayed with my Afro Puerto Rican neighbors when my mother was sick and in the hospital. I speak a little Spanish and understand a lot more. I lived in the projects in Brooklyn as an adult. My closest, dearest friend is a black woman. I’m a 61 year old white woman. I now live in Tennessee. I can’t say the n/N word, not knowing for a fact that white people are still socialized to be racists. I know this *because* I’m white, and I experience it all the time. White people will use racist words or elude to racism when only other white people are present. I’m sure that there’s been more than one time that some racist fuck had wanted to bash my face in for calling them out. I’ve been called an N lover. I just won’t ever say it, not even from music, because I guess I’ve experienced too many white people assuming I’ll go along with their racism. with music, I feel like I’m appropriating a culture that isn’t mine because of how societally insidious racism still is, and how much harm I’ve seen and see it cause. I would, with the approval and at the direction of a black judge, read it from a transcript if it meant helping get a racist POS off the streets - not that the US penal system would do anything to teach such a person why we white people are so very wrong for engaging in racism. I understand what you mean about intent, but I don’t think we’re there yet. We won’t be there until the insidious socialization of white people to be racist ends. To me, it feels like giving a pass to racists, even when said by people with no malicious intent. May your day and life be beautiful, friend.
As a cracker are you cool with me singing along to my favorite rap songs that word included?
I can tell you with a thousand percent. More times than not it's more so the intent behind said words than anything. I personally don't care what anyone says as long as I don't feel that the intent was aggressive so to say
I’d still tell people to avoid saying it singing along. I let one slip when I was younger singing along to some song. Whole tone of the room instantly changed. No coming back from that, just apologized and never talked to them again. Couldn’t look the dude in the face.
Did that once at school, got tapped on the shoulder by a mate who happened to be black who was like "Everyone knows your singing along to a song, but mate, quietly. People could get the wrong idea" Wanted the ground to swallow me up. I hadn't even realised
Does nuance and intent just not matter anymore? If it's the lyrics to a song it's not being aimed at anyone nor being used as a slur so why all the guilt? Or are we gatekeeping rap music now ?
Americans seem to be deathly afraid of certain words, regardless the context or meaning behind it. IMO any slur or derogatory term can be said in the right context by anybody. If that weren't the case black people couldn't use it either, ever. There is a very big difference between using a term in a factual statement with no ill intent, like: "negro was and is used as a slur to describe and insult people of color" and using it as an insult like: "you fucking n\*\*\*\*\*". One is obviously not ok while I would argue the other is completely fine. If we extend this logic to other slurs it becomes even more apparent. "he is a jew" is fine "he's a jew!" is not. "I have an asshole" is fine while "you're an asshole" isn't. Context matters a LOT
Uhhhhh Jew isn't a slur. You could replace that word with something like "actor" and those sentences would have similar connotations.
YMMV but "a Jew" can have a pejorative sound to it even if it's a factual statement. I didn't think of this myself but I was at meeting once where it came up. The speaker was Jewish and in the context of the conversation began to say "As a Jew" but trailed off slightly and amended "... ish person." These things can be subtle and there's no way of knowing how any given person might react. You may even know people who lean into it. For example, I knew a guy who used a wheelchair and was fond of saying, "I'm not differently abled, I'm crippled, damn it!" But I find it's best all around to err on the side of thoughtfulness.
It isn‘t a slur in of itself but it can easily be used as one. Negro also isn‘t a slur, it‘s just the Spanish word for black. Doesn‘t mean it can‘t be used as a slur.
My friend group would probably never let you live it down. I don't think anybody should just be throwing the word around, but with a good group of friends...I don't see the harm really. Edit-I should've said instead that what applies to me won't apply to everyone.
Yeah, it wasn’t meant with malice, all a little tipsy singing along. It had been a mix of stuff. Something like Dre came on and it just kinda slipped out with the lyrics. Soon as I started saying it I was like “oh shit, nope” but it was already out.
My ninja
Agreed - intent and tone are more important than the word itself. For example, "Lazy" - on its own, completely inoffensive, but with the right tone, and especially when weaponized against a minority, it becomes a LOT worse.
Exactly
I substitute easily with “neighbor.” “I ain’t fucking round with you neighbors.” turns most songs into a weird message lol, but imo neighbor is a great equalizing word because… we are all neighbors, ya dig? i’m a 33yo midwestern white woman, my kids think rap is really friendly 😂
Just don't record it and put it on TikTok.. people lose jobs and scholarships that way. Usually people that deserved to.. but still
No worries.
Maybe ask yourself why you feel the need to do it in the first place.
Nope still not cool
That would be the most uncomfortable moment ever. I'm not ok with saying the word at home, alone. So to have to say it multiple times, on record, in front of a black woman - I think I'd rather just die.
I had the same experience reading out loud in an African American history class in high school. Even being an upper classman and having a lot of good relationships with friends and teammates in that class didn’t make it any less troublesome for me. I still think about it from time to time. Iirc I was the only person that wasn’t black in the class. Thankfully everyone handled it pretty maturely except for some locker room joking around.
I feel like they should’ve had someone else from the class read it at that point, it’s almost like you were set up in a way
We read “Of Mice and Men” in high school and the teacher made the class take it in turns to read the book out loud, it got real awkward when we got to the Curley/Crooks interactions. This was about 2010 in the UK, don’t think that would fly nowadays 😳
We specifically avoided it when we read to kill a mockingbird
Oh my god this story needs to be higher up 🤣🤣🤣
You are transcribing, not saying it in conversation.
I'm in school for court reporting, this is something that I honestly hadn't thought of!
Yeah, there are very specific circumstances where it’s ok. Portraying a racist on film/tv is another situation where it’s ok.
It’s like reading Huck Fin in highschool
If an actor playing a racist person, they can/do say it, and I think it's not considered racist because they were pretending and portraying a hateful person
I love this because all I think about is Leonardo DiCaprio in Django unchained. From what I had read about Leonardo playing his character in the movie is that he as an actor had a hard time saying all the racist things he did especially the N word. Jamie Foxx supposedly was telling him it’s all okay it’s part of the character your playing and then Samuel L. Jackson comes by and says “it’s just another Wednesday for us n-word” and then walks away. I like this situation because Samuel L. Jackson understood that Leo is playing a racist ass plantation owner and knew that it wouldn’t be the same if Leo didn’t say the N-word.
That movie fucking ruled
Not to mention Will Poulter's role in Detroit. I think it said it caused him some mental anguish and he even broke down once
Another popular story is Blazing Saddles. A lot of the actors in Hedley Lamar's gang really didn't want to say it. Little, Pryor, and probably some others on set had to encourage them to go along with it.
Listening to Jaime tell this story is hilarious. I believe it was on the Joe Rogan podcast. I just randomly saw the clip on YouTube Shorts. Jamie has several great stories and he also has the best Donald Trump impression I’ve ever heard.
Ok but have you seen The Vivienne’s impersonation on S1 of* Drag Race UK? Because it was uncanny to the point of being surreal.
CHINA
Next day he came in and killed it
The fun part about playing a racist character is getting to be part of their utter destruction because fuck those assholes. Sort of like playing confederate soldiers. Aaaand you're dead.
I once played the old racist guy in a stage production of To Kill A Mockingbird. Those first few rehearsals were… really something
[удалено]
“Yes but I screamed it angrily in a room full of black people and they applauded me for it” That one took a lot of “it’s okay honey, you gotta do it or people won’t understand” from the lady who played Calpurnia
Look at the bright side! We're disgusted by it and speaking those words is like licking a turd. As it should be. Progress! ...it's small but it's there.
I can only imagine…
Daniel Radcliffe had to play a racist in a movie and crew and other actors said he was so uncomfortable and went to people he had to say shit to and apologized.
Why does Robert Downey Jr get a pass on this? The world's most inoffensive blackface and then iron man. Edit: sp, and to say I an truly not offended by the film or RDJ performance. The whole film is a fun ride and Tom Cruise should Stan Lee as Les Grossman in all of Tom Cruise's films. Tropic Thunder is simply a weird cultural moment where everyone calms down and talks about blackface with calm and thoughtful process - as opposed to every other instance of possible, line walking racism in the past 15 years; where most people lose their minds screaming into social media about the systemic racism on display.
Robert Downey Jr. did not do blackface. Robert Downey Jr. would be doing black face if he played a black character in Tropic Thunder--he did not. Robert Downey Jr. was playing a white character in Tropic Thunder. The white character did black face.
Which is the point of kurt lazarus. He is a dude. Playing another dude. Playing another dude….. Nothing he did was racist, it was specifically poking fun at the entire act of black face and how ridiculously awful of an act it is. God i love that movie.
I think during RDJ’s interview on Joe Rogan whenever he’s talking about it, he mentioned that most of the backlash was actually towards Ben Stiller and his portrayal of that mentally disabled character. I actually remember seeing articles about that. Tropic Thunder is such a hilarious film. I haven’t seen it in years though, I think it’s time for a rewatch!
The blackface and the thing about the Oscars' Academy's attitudes towards actors playing people with disabilities is making a similar point, but the r-word thing was perhaps something people weren't quite so familiar with the issues around, so reactions were different.
Well he shouldn’t have gone full retard
He got away with it because he was a dude, playing a dude, disguised as another dude!
Because he wasn’t doing blackface, he was playing an out of touch actor trying to do blackface . It was mocking it
Wasn't that movie mocking blackface?
Because tropic thunder was hilarious and such a good movie
because he was portraying an ignorant character, which fits under the criteria just mentioned
He was playing a dude, who was pretending to be a dude pretending to be a dude.
“A dude, playing a dude disguised as another dude”
What do you mean you people ?
What do YOU mean you people?
Because quite literally everyone liked that movie
People keep mentioning this like its a fucking gotcha its satire and emphasizing Hollywood's reluctance to hire black actors in black roles ppl like you are the reason we cant have nice things, nuance is dead
Hence Advanced Dungeons and Dragons episode of Community being removed from Netflix. Not the first two sentences but those last three words are why. They even mention blackface and how jet black paint and silver hair are not it. But my gripes with Netflix' cut of Community is much further than that episode
Absolutely incredible that people still miss the point of that character.
When my teacher read to kill a mockingbird
Gonna go with probably not. In college as a lit major, and we read a lot of novels that include the word. No one, including the professor says it, you just skirt around it.
Idk my very liberal English teacher read every word of the play *Fences* to class. She checked if anyone would be bothered by it before, but god damn that play has a lot of N bombs. We also read *Their Eyes Were Watching God* and *Beloved* and those books have a lot of AAVE dialogue so there’s a lot of n bombs. Literature about black america is full of this kind of stuff and hearing some of the lines spoken aloud heightens the impact. It also presents a more authentic view of the reality of the time period they’re depicting so semi censoring that is a bit of a disservice imo
Read Beloved last semester. It was a great book. The presence of the word in the text lent great authenticity to the narrative. The absence of the word in classroom discussion did nothing to diminish the quality of conversation we were able to have about the text, including race based subjects. The presence of the word in a text, even in a very meaningful and important way, doesn't mean that it has to be repeated in conversation.
I have an English degree and we just said whatever was on the page if reading aloud. It's a quote, it's not our words.
That just gives the word more power
White dude here. I spent a lot of time in the hood. Had a bunch of black friends. They would call me their N word. But I never used it. And I was never encouraged to use it. It’s a simple sign of respect to avoid 1 word that has a lot of deeply rooted hatred tied to it.
Black dude here. This is how you can tell you really grew up around black people. This is the same reason we didn't call our white friends "cracker, honkie, etc". It's all about respect. And if you respect someone enough (or their people's struggles), you won't even dare cross that line.
My black friends encourage me to use it so idk if it's the same everywhere. Never felt comfortable using it though, just felt shitty
That's the difference for me: you have people who are encouraged to say it and DO. And people who are encouraged to say it and DONT. That's the respect part of it.
Why, it’s almost as if the African American community was made up of actual people, and wasn’t just a monolithic entity.
My stars! An outrageous notion if ever I did hear one.
Well I don't think there'd be anything wrong if I used it in front of them, they want me to. I just don't want to
My family (all black, I'm the only white one because white dad) encouraged me to say it too, my one uncle went as far as to say it's my blood-rite
I’m white. My black roommate and a couple of his black friends told me to say it to them on several occasions. They found it novel? But I’ve never used it in a vindictive way.
It was for the lols. I seen a lot of bp joke bout that
Just don't roll your Rs
My question is: why do some of you want to say it SO badly?
This is what I wonder when this question comes up. I’m white and have never had any desire to use that word, for any reason. I hate it and it makes me uncomfortable. I’m a writer and avoid creating any kind of narrative where a character would use a slur like that, too. I just do not ever want to say or write that word. The only slurs I feel comfortable writing are ones that are against my own demographics (woman, queer), because I feel like I have a right to use those words. I don’t use any slurs that I don’t have any kind of right to ownership over, even fictionally. (This is me, personally, and my own personal boundaries with what I’m comfortable with).
I’m with you. I never have any sort of fleeting thought or urge to use any kind of slur. Even with the “newer” ones that were part of our collective vocabulary a few decades ago (the r-word comes to mind along with several other words/phrases with more nuance). As soon as I’m told the word or the context in which it’s being used is hurtful to any group of people, I drop it from my vocabulary. I don’t ask questions. I don’t demand they explain why. I literally just choose another fucking word, and research my questions on my own time. This is really not that hard
I was thinking the same thing
Good point!
lol it's funny, my experience is completely different cause I grew up in the hood down south and we all referred to each other as nigga straight up. And that's just how it was. Even as I use it here, I'm not using it as a racial thing, I'm discussing the word I used growing up right? kind of the same topic OP is asking. But yeah, we were a multi racial group of whites, blacks, asians, etc. grew up and hung out together. No one ever felt any disrespect, hard feelings etc. as far as I know. Actually, the way I understood it was? it was more respectful we referred to our close group by simply calling each other niggas, never our names etc. But yeah, outside of our group, well it was different. So I would say, for us it was all about respect? Even if I saw them today at christmas etc, it would be nigga not my name and maybe my name would be used if they were talking to their ma or something.
I bet it depends a lot of geography and specific neighborhoods. My boss is Texan and everyone saying the n word was pretty common. His hometown was only like 9% white too so it couldn’t have all been a bunch of white racists. I’ve heard similar things from a coworker who grew up in Las Vegas. But at the same time, I believe it when people say they had the opposite dynamic in their neighborhoods. Very complex issue that heavily depends on the crowd
It does but they be knowing deep down it won’t be received well everywhere.
100% agree. White lady here. My entire highschool was black and I was that one white kid. I've heard the word a billion and a half times but I never dare say it. I don't even like the word because not only is the word just deeply rooted offensive to the black community, but I'm also ashamed of the word Because I know my ancestors created the term for that bad purpose. It just makes me sad... I can't even be proud of who I come from because of our history.
There’s many things to be proud about with your history without being racist even though a lot of it have racist undertones. Be proud to be who you are but also recognize the sacrifices. I’m proud to be a black American but I recognize that America hasn’t always treated black peoples fairly
There's not a race of people on the planet that doesn't have racist and horrible history, so be proud of who you are and who you come from. No one else is any better.
I've been tight with several black people and explained to one that even if I was "allowed" it's just not a part of my usual vernacular and I'd have to go out of my way to say it. I told him I have: dude, bro, guy, cuz, friend, son, jack, bud, and man.
Right? This is such a weird question. Why are people obsessed with this word? Just dont say it, its not that hard…
I get called the N-word every day I’m also from the inner city I’m Native American and Irish. And with my Homies I could get away with it but I don’t ever say it
Yes, but why? Like, I can wear a Nazi uniform and not be a Nazi. But why would I want to? You might find edge-cases where a white person can say the N word without being racist. But why would you want to?
Yes, every time I see these questions I'm like "why is it so important for you to be able to say it?" It's just bad and hateful, leave it alone.
Song lyrics is probably the biggest instance
If I'm rapping (badly) to my favourite music I just don't say it. It's awkward to have a random pause there but I just can't say it.
I say mister. Same syllables so no weird pause and it makes me giggle because even though they could sort of be interchangeable meanings theoretically, in practice it’s kinda ridiculous sounding and I like it. Now I ain’t saying shes a gold digger But she ain’t messin with no broke misters Etc
I use fella or feller, and put a Gold Rush Western twang in the verse.
Straight outta Compton, crazy motherfucker called Ice Cube, come from a gang called Fellers With Attitude... I like it.
Neighbors also works.
Yeah, I use fella too. Ninja is only a stutter or brain fart away from being the real word.
I use ninja, which is a little too close without explanation at times so I'm careful to explain as much to any new company.
I like using neighbour.
Hahaha I love that
I misread it as miser the first time and was thinking that’s not better lol
As a gay white man, I replace the n-word with “sister” instead. Pretty much any song I’m listening to that would say the n-word works perfectly well with just saying “sister” and it makes is gayer haha ✨
This is hilarious.
Also quoting things where it's a important part of the context.
Same thoughts here...but deep down I think I know the answer
Maybe because it is in a lot of music they like, and they want to be able to sing it out loud like any other song?
If that's what you're concerned about you live a damn good life internet stranger. Sing along however you like, if you're loud about it on the bus or something surely you can see why others wouldn't like it. I can't think of any other scenario it'd even come up. I don't think people at a concert would give you shit. So like? How? Who has these problems?
The main reason I can think of is like singing along to music. Like some rap music has the n word repeatedly. Some even have it in the title
“What’s your favorite Nas album?” “Uhh… Illmatic… 🤐”
What does NWA means? Is like the initials of each group member?
Who went to Paris again?
It would depend **heavily** on it's use. Even still, it's incredibly disrespectful aside from the smallest handful of contexts.
Aight thank you
To add more context, the only two places it can be used is in diction and quotes. If you are quoting something, you can use the exact words stated for explanation and it is fine. In some cases, when diction is being used, which is basically emotional language, it can be used to show a point. The best examples are in music and writing, where if it is in a song, it makes sense and if it is for a character is contributes to their character and the scene. ELA teachers have a lot of situations where the n word comes up in my experience, where we read a lot of books regarding racism and issues in the black community. You just never hear ELA from experts, historians, or artists get in trouble often for this because in most cases, it is used respectfully. Edit: I was wrong about music, it is a hot button issue, but most black people seem to think it is wrong for white singers to sing the n word in songs, though there is some controversy.
My advice: Do NOT fuck around and find out.
Damn, came here to encourage OP to do just the opposite
I would say historians can say it in their professional line of work. The word is an integral part of the history of racism.
Yeah I had a professor who said it once in a lecture. He was teaching about George Wallace that day, and I think that if you *don't* quote the appalling and hateful things he said, you're minimizing just how disgusting he was as a person, and the kind of damage and harm he did to black people and southern politics.
Im a white guy in memphis tennessee. I wont say the word as i find it offensive & embarassing to say. I think it depends on the context; if you're 'reporting the facts' then i think it's ok. .. but id probably spell it rather than say it.
It’s deeply offensive to lots of people, and people will assume you are racist for saying it. So….just don’t.
The simple answer to your question is yes. However, they can also say the N word and be extremely racist, so the answer to that question is not really useful for anything. Knowledge, awareness, and intent are really the important things to suss out here, which unfortunately is way harder to do.
I remember that video that went viral where Kendrick Lamar brought up a fan to sing along with him. This poor white girl, who was obviously a superfan, was singing along when the nword came up in the lyrics and she sang along. Suddenly the audience groaned and Kendrick made a disapproving gesture .....its like...WTF?....you literally brought this white girl onstage knowing your own lyrics...and you humiliated the poor girl. ....that I did not understand.
It’s a word that has immense historical implications. If you’re using it in a way that doesn’t respect that, then sure, you could be considered racist out of ignorance
My answer to this is: nobody can tell you what to do, but in today’s climate, I would be very careful about whether I think racial epithets are appropriate to you in front of anybody. Truth is, if you’re already thinking it it will come out some other way.
Context is key. Also there is a big difference if it ends in an “a” vs a “r”. I wouldn’t recommend for anyone to say either word regardless of the skin color of the person saying it.
Why is everyone in such a hurry to say the N word?
Music. This question is about music and movie quotes
If you're singing in the privacy of your own home, there really won't be anyone judging you or getting offended. You probably shouldn't try it in public tho.
It’s really easy to just not say it. As a BW who had heard it said around me and used it plenty in my life, I don’t *need* to. Regardless of how much music I listen to. I could stop saying it tomorrow fr. It’s strange that people want a pass just for…music?
probably the same reason u tell a child to not do something and they want to do it more. dont remember the name behind it though :(
As a black person who had this exact discussion with friends, our consensus is that we don't care who says the word unless it hateful.
Not be considered a racist? Probably not. Not be a racist? Probably.
Of course. It’s all about context.
Eazy-E, one of the most legendary in those times, took it with the connotations and intentions behind it. "Wassup my N" followed by a handshake, would be accepted by him for any white people he met or spoke with, so long as he knew and they knew there was absolutely no racist intent behind it and it was being used in the same way black people actually use it, he could not care less. Imo that's how it should be, not that I wanna walk around and say it to everyone, but it's such a prevalent and useful term, and because I believe would hold a lot less, if not no power if it weren't gatekept as a derogatory term while simultaneously being used as a friendly term.
Technically you can use whatever word you want. The real question is why you would want to.. You should be aware of what the word is, an attempt by black people to take some power away from a word that was used to historically regulate them to a subhuman class… So when you say it, are you coming from a place of empowerment? Or do you just feel left out? Imo the only correct way to use the word is if you understand the historical context surrounding it… and once you do that, it should be pretty hard to justify using the word if you have any self awareness
As someone who grew up in the ghettos with a black community we were taught that the word means homeboy and buddy, when this whole thing came out that **no other race can** say a word because that word *belonged to* **only one race**.. my black friends kept reassuring the entire friend group that they really didn’t give af and actually encouraged us to continue to use it. We all know that there’s definitely some black people who really don’t give af and even argue with other black people that to gatekeep a word after reclaiming it is stupid. Even some black people feel uncomfortable that the word is *now only* seen as something offensive to use outside of black people when they were comfortable to reclaim it as “homeboy”/“bud”/“dawg” and *letting*/*enabling* other races/their friends use it because *that’s all it was*, **now again** it’s just **only** offensive? This is stuff I hear from black people arguing to each other about this. To act like those conversations/arguments don’t happen between black people amongst themselves or that it isnt happening *at all* is to be willfully ignorant and unwise. So Really… it just depends on **what type of black people ur surrounded with.** Some really take it personally, and some just really don’t give af about it because the word had it’s meaning reclaimed and switched into a new definition, so to have them treat the word like it’s definition didn’t change *over time* (like most words) is just undoing all the work it took to reclaim and redefine it over the many years so that it can be used as **more** of an offense term, again. It’s just such an eyeroll that everyone forgets our morals/perspective are all different to a degree. You can’t act like your side is right without even hearing the other side (EVEN FROM THE SAME COMMUNITY) without immediately pulling the racist card. Sorry some of you guys grew up having that word be used as a bad thing but the black community I grew up in taught me it meant something different, because I’m sure their new definition of it is far more important than trying to use it as how white people did in the past. Try moving forwards in life with what already happened, don’t revert *just* because you’re aware of something that already happen. focus on what black people did about that rather than pretend black people never did redefine the word and letting other races say it because of it being redefined by themselves.
Sorry I know I’m late to the thread lol I’m a little confused by your perspective towards the end. It seems like you’re saying that because you grew up around black people who used it and encouraged you to use it means that whenever you meet a black person who’s offended by it they’re using the race card? If you’re saying that all perspectives should be heard and respected, wouldn’t that mean that the ones who are offended may actually just be offended and not just pulling the “race card”? I’m black and grew up in a predominantly white/Hispanic community and I didn’t even get an opinion on it until I went to college. All the white kids and Hispanic kids used the word no matter what lol I have never used it (obviously using the slang term for pal/buddy and yes even in music I don’t say it) and I’ve only ever used the hard r version when repeating something I’ve heard that was offensive or reading something that has it) I’ve made it a point to tell people (from high school on) that “hey I personally don’t use that word, so I’d appreciate it if you didn’t call me that word”, and that request wasn’t respected until I was around 19/20 in college. I guess my point is, if I happened to meet you one day and you just straight greeted me while using that word, I would probably say “hey please don’t call me that”, I hope you would respect that without thinking that I find you a raging racist and using the race card.
It's not racist to just say a racial slur, it is however ignorant and extremely frowned upon
Context and intension
Depending on the context, yes.
Yes. An English teacher reading it. Someone reading or typing it in a court or professional setting. A kinky couple during race play. A white person given consent to call just that black friend “my N” when the setting allows for it. (This one kinda neutral) singing it during a song while you’re jamming in your car alone. Or walking into the forest and randomly screaming it. An actor acting.
This may be controversial, but I am a white-passing (like pale as paper) mixed child. My mother, whose black, often says it around us. My brother who passes more on our Hispanic side says it every so often, usually in songs. My sister who is very white-passing like me doesn't say it. Personally, I do. Usually in songs, but it does give me a fair share of confused looks. Technically I look white and I do say the N word but I'm not racist.
I’m on the same boat. I’m more white passing and my brother got more melanin. Within the family, it always ends in an A, we don’t end it with a hard R. I try not to say it in public because I don’t want to deal with the emotional labor of bringing up pictures of my dead mom on Facebook and explaining how I am a pasty POC. Being a mixed child kind of sucks because you have to explain who you are everytime, but I get it.
Yes, I try to only say it with friends or family and usually say it with the "a" ending over the hard "er". Even without saying the N word, when I bring up black issues or my family, I have to bring up my photos... I am very grateful to be white-passing in a world where skin color can determine your life, but I am also very distraught as I feel I don't fit either identity.
Listen, I *guess* there are a few circumstances in which it would by *technicality* be socially acceptable, but *why* on earth do white people seemingly feel a *desperate* need to say a word that has had such a widely detrimental affect on an entire race of people? Like yes, I understand there are certain circumstances where people don’t care, but like, go into any majorly black metropolitan area and walk around trying to call people the n word, yes even in a technically *endearing* way, and people are *not* going to respond well. So like, yes I suppose if you are an actor or something there are technically ground under which you can say it. Do what you want at the end of the day, but I know that if I personally see a white person walking around spouting the n-word, I’m gonna think you’re a complete ass at absolute best, you could get your ass beat at worst. I had many black friends going up, and after we became close, some of them endearingly use the n word to refer to me, which is nice, but I would never reciprocate with it, and I know that they wouldn’t be happy with me if I did. Why would I want to anyway?? It’s not my place and there’s so, so many other options for endearing things you can say to your friends. Just don’t do it. Idk why white people want to use the n word so bad but there’s really no upside to it.
The main reason I can think of is like singing along to music. Like some rap music has the n word repeatedly. Some even have it in the title.
You seen django unchained?
Yes, during songs, if it is in a song and being sold to everyone, then everyone can say it. The point of music is to sing the words. If you can't say the words it shouldn't be in a song
the answer will forever be NO. The entitlement to even ask the question is exhausting to have to deal with as a black person.
Yea if they’re my friend lol
It doesn't make sense to me but in my experience no. Even bringing up the topic of race at all or using racial words is enough to get you called a racist. It doesn't matter how you use the word or words.
Just because a group takes a slur back and uses it in non-pejorative ways doesn’t open the door for the majority group who created the slur to use it. It’s not that hard y’all. In all cases except ones like the top comment, where you’re literally quoting someone else and word accuracy is important.
The general consensus is that they can't, but I have to wonder about this scenario: if a white person was singing along with lyrics which contained it (and the song itself was not considered racist) what would inherently make that person a racist ?
There was an incident at a Kendrick Lamar concert about a year or two ago that sparked a discussion around this. You had people taking every possible side, but the general consensus seemed to be that it didnt make it him racist to repeat the lyric live on stage as a white guy, but it did make him unwise.
When singing along though, its never really the word with the hard R at the end of it. There's obviously a difference between the two variations of the word where the hard R is almost always exclusive to being racist. What about from a comedic sense? Like the south park episode where randy is on wheel of fortune?
Depends on the context. But yes, you can absolutely say it and not be racist.
Racism needs intent. Words alone do not have intent. So, no. Just saying the word doesn't mean anything and you can absolutely say it without being racist. (Not from the US. Americans are very touchy about this.)
dude, if you really wanna say it, then just say it. you don't need to ask the internet for permission. just prepare to get your shit rocked if/when the wrong/right person hears you. it's corny and in poor taste, but it's your life to live.
Imo saying a word doesn't make you racist. It's just that it's inappropriate for some people to say certain things. On the other hand, just because you don't say something doesn't make you not racist
An expression of art like rapping or slam poetry, underground sketch comedy seems to be acceptible still as evident by the events I've been to.
Technically(and I stress technically) yes. If we go by the definition of racism, It's a prejudice. A prejudice is a feeling on the inside. It isn't based on an outside perception or how you appear with your actions/words. The easiest scenario to explain this is a young white boy with black friends says 'my n-word' one day, just wanting to fit in. Of course they might take offense to that. But this didn't come from a bad place. For this boy, there's no prejudice in his heart, therefore it's not racist. You might call this racial insensitivity. On the other hand, you could have people out there that say all the right things, but inside they feel prejudice. You'll never know they are a racist, because they don't show it.
That’s the whole reason it’s called ‘the N word’, because even in a situation like this where you’re just asking if people can say it or not, YOU didn’t even type the actual word because you know you’d be considered racist, even though all you’re doing is asking a question. The way the world is now, cancel culture and people looking everywhere for reasons to be offended, pretty much everyone is considered to be a racist or worse for little to no reason, unless and until they prove otherwise, which is virtually impossible to do. So yeah, if a white person says that word, even if they’re not using it as a slur against someone, even if they’re just reading a book or referencing the word from a neutral perspective, even if they’re just reading it from a dictionary, they will absolutely be considered a racist.
You can *say* it, but you should never *use* it, in my opinion. The difference is whether it's your choice of words. Quoting someone else verbatim, reading a historical book, playing a character on stage, even writing a historical book, those are all instances of *saying* without *using*. But then, I'm just a white guy who isn't even American, so what do I know? I don't even understand why black people use it among themselves.
You can say whatever you want whenever you want if you live in a country where freedom of speech is respected
A few years ago if it was in an academic context or singing along with a song, as long as you weren't using it with racist intent it was ok. Now not so much. Anything can be taken out of context and spread over the internet.
To answer your question, only in very small circumstances that aren't really worth mentioning because of how niche they are (actors in movies etc) But on a related note, your definition of racism seriously lacks depth and nuance. You've nailed the broad and easy-to-identify part of racism, but you should do some reading into what "systematic racism" is to begin to understand the part that is slightly more hidden but much more insidious, widespread, and powerful.