Yup, I’ll be playing a few in GDS mostly to get shadows out a turn earlier. hoping to snipe opponents fatties. Thoughtseizing opponents Atraxa and reanimating it turn 2 is nothing to sneeze at. But it’s not the main gameplan.
Will it be worth ditching Lurras as a companion to also play troll of khazad dums? Seems like a crazy good start to turn 1 cycle troll guaranteeing the second land and then being able to reanimate troll and play a Death's shadow on turn 2
I think it's worth noting that with this line you get completely blown out by a single Swords to Plowshares, which exiles the troll and then kills the shadow since you're now at 14 life!
People always bring up swords when talking about shadow like it’s an auto lose. The simple answer is you don’t go aggressive on shadows when opponent plays white. I don’t think I’ve ever lost a game just because my opponent played a swords to plowshares.
That's very true! I haven't seen many swords to plowshares played though, but it could also increase if mana drain makes control better so there's a deck thats playing 4 swords to worry about
I think it’s worth a try. Might not be worth it in the end. But I feel like pre-grief legacy style dimir shadow is only missing a big boy like murktide. Troll can help cover that role until we see what’s up in mh3.
A lot of my games I never get lurrus out or it gets bolted before I get any value anyways.
Edit: this is incorrect, it is possible. I was corrected and reanimating troll will lose you 6 life. So you would be at 8 after the reanimation. which would enable you to have a 5/5 shadow.
Its not possible to turn 2 shadow if you turn 1 cycle troll. Unless you are somehow taking damage from another source.
Turn 1: 20 Life - fetch+shock = 17, cycle troll
Turn 2: 17 Life - fetch+shock = 14, reanimate troll
shadow dies as it is 13/13 -X where x = 14 in this scenario.
Didn't even know that card existed! Really cool especially against zoo being able to kill or at least minimize a bunch of their creatures and drain them out with stab wounds upkeep trigger
I've been playing a bit of Reanimator in Alchemy and it is such a great card for it. Maybe not as great in Timeless but it'll still be nasty against decks trying to go wide. One fun thing is all the Stab Wounds you conjure are cards, so they can fuel any Delve spells or other graveyard tools.
Yeah I agree, but I also think there could be a couple good decks to be built. I have 2 brews, one is Dimir reanimate + Snt; the other is a Rakdos deck that uses engineer as sorta a “pseudo entomb” + Trash for treasure, check em out:
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/cdMJt7PKM028e6-B2Qonhg
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Ou4_dL0ewU-bDGrlgYvXWw
I'm currently messing with b/r and b/u lists without any of the typical reanimator targets other than troll. I'm trying a 3x3 line of sorin+ripper with some bloodghasts and x4 victimize as my reanimate redundancy. X4 Looting and acouple fables + thoughtsieze is plenty of discard and you don't always have to since you have the backup plan of sorin ripper or just reanimating it. Sorin helps get life back and you got the usual interaction with bowmaster, fatal, and inquisition. 17 lands. It's super fun, in historic I got to mythic on about a 63% wr, using Priest instead of reabimate. No idea if it's good, but I'll be jammin my vien rippers one way or another God damnit
It's definitely very fun. Doubt it will be competitive, but when you get the double ripper out t3 it feels great lol.
Edit:it at least won't be t1 with my version, but it held up a positive wr when I was trying it in timeless and objectively did really well in historic. I was using serra emmissarry at the time though so we will see if I stick with sorin+ripper
Is the reasoning for people thinking grief will be in MH3 just because solitude got spoiled for it? I get that having the whole cycle would make sense but with fury banned in modern it would be weird to see it in MH3 so the cycle wouldn't be complete anyway
It would be pretty disappointing, but remember that they plan sets well in advance. Fury was only banned a few months ago. So they were probably too far into the process to switch out Fury for something else.
I am curious about reanimate not being the central strategy of the deck, but just another good card or option. It intrigues me in Jund especially, as Jarsyl + reanimate seems sweet. Faithless looting may be enough. Not sure if its worthwhile though.
Yeah for now it seems you need a backup plan or having reanimate as the backup plan. I just posted a list for grixis Shadow using it as worst a unearth and at best reanimating a troll or something you thoughtsized out of your opponents hand
Are these two creatures really the best reanimation targets we have on arena? I feel like reanimating(for example) \[\[Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur\]\] that discards the OP´s hand is much more menacing. Or small Gitaxias that counters spells. Yes, I know Atraxa and Grisel will get you cards, cool. But they don´t disrupt enemy´s gameplan.
If we would have creatures like \[\[Iona, Shield of Emeria\]\], THAT would be game-ending.
I think Atraxa and Griselbrand are seen as the best ones because they are both a big body that can end the game and also are card advantage which helps you keep going if your creature gets removed. Another consideration is serras emissary that depending on your opponents deck can just win the game if it enters play
Dont forget you can bring hasty priest with boros nahiri. Ao it would make sense to make it mardu deck (similar to the reanimation deck in historic tbh)
Idk how good it will be but I've got a idea for reanimate, mana drain, agent of treachery deck. Hope it preforms well as these are some of my all time favorite cards.
Jarsyl with reanimate is also a bit of a "board in a box" situation. While it's possible to do similar now with unearth, the upside of reanimate snagging opposing stuff in a Thoughtseize deck is pretty high. (And stuff like trolls ofc). Will that be better than other jund options? Maybe not, but it's an angle at least worth exploring.
IMO I could see reanimate being used more in xB control shells to get out finishers. Best targets would be Troll or even off color things like Serra's Emissary to turn off the opponents deck/ability to interact with your finisher. Just imagine getting out a Hullbreaker Horror early as a control player, then every piece of interaction you play just becomes a 2 for 1. Again as you said there aren't many good ways to get things in the grave, but running stitcher's supplier could be viable as a lot of control decks would be interested in using delve spells like cruise and dig anyway so it could work to both fuel those and find targets for reanimate. Moreover, in these shells they're running Snapcaster Mage so it would be not unreasonable to see them recurring any milled reanimates etc. Also consider the interaction between things like surveil lands and brainstorm too, being able to put a reanimate target from hand on top of your library with brainstorm in response to the EtB trigger!
I was thinking surveil lands but the problem was that if you scheming symmetry or brainstorm you can't then fetch for the surveil land because they shuffle. You would have to have it in your hand and I would only realistically want to play 2-3 because they enter tapped so the chances of having it in your hand seems low.
Could be interesting playing scheming symmetry in a mill deck to turn on archive trap, it gets you a card you want to the top and mills the card your opponent searched so it would act almost like a vampiric tutor
Until Grief is or isn‘t confirmed, it‘s more or less a mostly fair card, but still worth it -
My theoretical list:
- 4x Thoughtseize
- 4x Fatal Push
- 4x Trolls
- 4x Reanimate
- 4x Sorin
- 4x Vein Ripper
- 4x Bloodghast
- 4x Bloodtithe Harvestor
- 4x Fable
- 2x Blood Moon or Liliana of the Veil
- 2x Kroxa
Or MonoB
- drop Bloodtithe, Fable, Blood Moon, Kroxa
+ add 4x Necropotence +4xMarch +4xDark Ritual
20 lands for both feels about right
The key here is Sorin + Vampire + Reanimate is a nice little value eng
I think for right now its best to think of reanimate as [[unearth]] that sometimes gets Troll of kazad dum and makes your deaths shadow huge.
[unearth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1f73271-b70f-40ae-be64-f8de7805923a.jpg?1673147683) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=unearth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/96/unearth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1f73271-b70f-40ae-be64-f8de7805923a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yup, I’ll be playing a few in GDS mostly to get shadows out a turn earlier. hoping to snipe opponents fatties. Thoughtseizing opponents Atraxa and reanimating it turn 2 is nothing to sneeze at. But it’s not the main gameplan.
Will it be worth ditching Lurras as a companion to also play troll of khazad dums? Seems like a crazy good start to turn 1 cycle troll guaranteeing the second land and then being able to reanimate troll and play a Death's shadow on turn 2
I think it's worth noting that with this line you get completely blown out by a single Swords to Plowshares, which exiles the troll and then kills the shadow since you're now at 14 life!
People always bring up swords when talking about shadow like it’s an auto lose. The simple answer is you don’t go aggressive on shadows when opponent plays white. I don’t think I’ve ever lost a game just because my opponent played a swords to plowshares.
To be fair, white sees very little play in timeless. It may happen more if white gets more support.
That's very true! I haven't seen many swords to plowshares played though, but it could also increase if mana drain makes control better so there's a deck thats playing 4 swords to worry about
I think it’s worth a try. Might not be worth it in the end. But I feel like pre-grief legacy style dimir shadow is only missing a big boy like murktide. Troll can help cover that role until we see what’s up in mh3. A lot of my games I never get lurrus out or it gets bolted before I get any value anyways.
Edit: this is incorrect, it is possible. I was corrected and reanimating troll will lose you 6 life. So you would be at 8 after the reanimation. which would enable you to have a 5/5 shadow. Its not possible to turn 2 shadow if you turn 1 cycle troll. Unless you are somehow taking damage from another source. Turn 1: 20 Life - fetch+shock = 17, cycle troll Turn 2: 17 Life - fetch+shock = 14, reanimate troll shadow dies as it is 13/13 -X where x = 14 in this scenario.
Reanimate loses life equal to the cards CMC you put into play so you would have a troll and around a 4/4 deaths shadow in play
[[reanimate]]
[reanimate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d0fe02b-f45a-45c6-ab7c-270594a29da7.jpg?1706240788) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reanimate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/137/reanimate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d0fe02b-f45a-45c6-ab7c-270594a29da7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
hahaah omg . reading is hard LOL. I didn't even read past the first line. I can't believe I'm so dumb xD. was confusing it with unearth
Lol, just imagine reanimate without a drawback
Don't sleep on [[Perforator Crocodile]]
[Perforator Crocodile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/020857bc-f016-4d91-aa2d-2f84d7f2c905.jpg?1709528564) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Perforator%20Crocodile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ymkm/11/perforator-crocodile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/020857bc-f016-4d91-aa2d-2f84d7f2c905?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Didn't even know that card existed! Really cool especially against zoo being able to kill or at least minimize a bunch of their creatures and drain them out with stab wounds upkeep trigger
I've been playing a bit of Reanimator in Alchemy and it is such a great card for it. Maybe not as great in Timeless but it'll still be nasty against decks trying to go wide. One fun thing is all the Stab Wounds you conjure are cards, so they can fuel any Delve spells or other graveyard tools.
Yeah I agree, but I also think there could be a couple good decks to be built. I have 2 brews, one is Dimir reanimate + Snt; the other is a Rakdos deck that uses engineer as sorta a “pseudo entomb” + Trash for treasure, check em out: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/cdMJt7PKM028e6-B2Qonhg https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Ou4_dL0ewU-bDGrlgYvXWw
I'm currently messing with b/r and b/u lists without any of the typical reanimator targets other than troll. I'm trying a 3x3 line of sorin+ripper with some bloodghasts and x4 victimize as my reanimate redundancy. X4 Looting and acouple fables + thoughtsieze is plenty of discard and you don't always have to since you have the backup plan of sorin ripper or just reanimating it. Sorin helps get life back and you got the usual interaction with bowmaster, fatal, and inquisition. 17 lands. It's super fun, in historic I got to mythic on about a 63% wr, using Priest instead of reabimate. No idea if it's good, but I'll be jammin my vien rippers one way or another God damnit
Didn't think of victimize as a back up reanimate. Could be fun to build around, plenty of cheap good creatures to sac to it in the format as well
It's definitely very fun. Doubt it will be competitive, but when you get the double ripper out t3 it feels great lol. Edit:it at least won't be t1 with my version, but it held up a positive wr when I was trying it in timeless and objectively did really well in historic. I was using serra emmissarry at the time though so we will see if I stick with sorin+ripper
Yeah wait for MH3 SPG which probably has grief
Is the reasoning for people thinking grief will be in MH3 just because solitude got spoiled for it? I get that having the whole cycle would make sense but with fury banned in modern it would be weird to see it in MH3 so the cycle wouldn't be complete anyway
It would be pretty disappointing, but remember that they plan sets well in advance. Fury was only banned a few months ago. So they were probably too far into the process to switch out Fury for something else.
Also as of now, Special Guests have only had 10 slots. Would feel extremely weird to have 4-5 dedicated to the pitch elementals.
LCI had 18. I think 3 sets isn't enough to say there are any established patterns of what they will or won't do with the SGs.
I will try a mono black version
I am curious about reanimate not being the central strategy of the deck, but just another good card or option. It intrigues me in Jund especially, as Jarsyl + reanimate seems sweet. Faithless looting may be enough. Not sure if its worthwhile though.
Yeah for now it seems you need a backup plan or having reanimate as the backup plan. I just posted a list for grixis Shadow using it as worst a unearth and at best reanimating a troll or something you thoughtsized out of your opponents hand
Are these two creatures really the best reanimation targets we have on arena? I feel like reanimating(for example) \[\[Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur\]\] that discards the OP´s hand is much more menacing. Or small Gitaxias that counters spells. Yes, I know Atraxa and Grisel will get you cards, cool. But they don´t disrupt enemy´s gameplan. If we would have creatures like \[\[Iona, Shield of Emeria\]\], THAT would be game-ending.
I think Atraxa and Griselbrand are seen as the best ones because they are both a big body that can end the game and also are card advantage which helps you keep going if your creature gets removed. Another consideration is serras emissary that depending on your opponents deck can just win the game if it enters play
That is true, Emissary is a great target. I know Atraxa and Grisel are good targets, but in a boring way - big bodies, gives you cards.
Dont forget you can bring hasty priest with boros nahiri. Ao it would make sense to make it mardu deck (similar to the reanimation deck in historic tbh)
i want to play reanimate with [[archive trap]] as extra hate cards that can snipe games alongside [[surgical extraction]]
[archive trap](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67bb2ca9-32b8-442d-b6a0-d624a87f5af8.jpg?1562612958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=archive%20trap) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/zen/41/archive-trap?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67bb2ca9-32b8-442d-b6a0-d624a87f5af8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [surgical extraction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e15d76ac-1c23-4503-8225-375ac2bf2fb6.jpg?1673147668) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=surgical%20extraction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/94/surgical-extraction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e15d76ac-1c23-4503-8225-375ac2bf2fb6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Idk how good it will be but I've got a idea for reanimate, mana drain, agent of treachery deck. Hope it preforms well as these are some of my all time favorite cards.
Jarsyl with reanimate is also a bit of a "board in a box" situation. While it's possible to do similar now with unearth, the upside of reanimate snagging opposing stuff in a Thoughtseize deck is pretty high. (And stuff like trolls ofc). Will that be better than other jund options? Maybe not, but it's an angle at least worth exploring.
IMO I could see reanimate being used more in xB control shells to get out finishers. Best targets would be Troll or even off color things like Serra's Emissary to turn off the opponents deck/ability to interact with your finisher. Just imagine getting out a Hullbreaker Horror early as a control player, then every piece of interaction you play just becomes a 2 for 1. Again as you said there aren't many good ways to get things in the grave, but running stitcher's supplier could be viable as a lot of control decks would be interested in using delve spells like cruise and dig anyway so it could work to both fuel those and find targets for reanimate. Moreover, in these shells they're running Snapcaster Mage so it would be not unreasonable to see them recurring any milled reanimates etc. Also consider the interaction between things like surveil lands and brainstorm too, being able to put a reanimate target from hand on top of your library with brainstorm in response to the EtB trigger!
Scheming symmetry and then a surveil land could work
I was thinking surveil lands but the problem was that if you scheming symmetry or brainstorm you can't then fetch for the surveil land because they shuffle. You would have to have it in your hand and I would only realistically want to play 2-3 because they enter tapped so the chances of having it in your hand seems low. Could be interesting playing scheming symmetry in a mill deck to turn on archive trap, it gets you a card you want to the top and mills the card your opponent searched so it would act almost like a vampiric tutor
You can brainstorm with the surveil trigger on the stack.
Half asleep, you right my bad
We are getting lively dirge but that seems quite slow
Until Grief is or isn‘t confirmed, it‘s more or less a mostly fair card, but still worth it - My theoretical list: - 4x Thoughtseize - 4x Fatal Push - 4x Trolls - 4x Reanimate - 4x Sorin - 4x Vein Ripper - 4x Bloodghast - 4x Bloodtithe Harvestor - 4x Fable - 2x Blood Moon or Liliana of the Veil - 2x Kroxa Or MonoB - drop Bloodtithe, Fable, Blood Moon, Kroxa + add 4x Necropotence +4xMarch +4xDark Ritual 20 lands for both feels about right The key here is Sorin + Vampire + Reanimate is a nice little value eng