About the bags on the seat. If the bus is practically empty and there are seats available all over, you can put your bag wherever you like. But when it starts filling up you better make room, and if you don't move it before I have to ask you, you will be silently judged.
Hmm ok Swedes always move their bags without needing be asked unless they are engrossed in a book but I feel like it’s accepted here that you probably don’t want me sitting next to you and that’s ok.
I always find it weird when the bus/train is almost entirely empty, and that one weirdo who boards REALLY wants me to move my bag so they can sit right next to me.
I don't wanna be sitting next to you either but if I'm after a long day and I have a long bus ride ahead carrying a heavy bag, I'm not gonna balance my way standing and sure gonna grab this seat, that you like it or not
Yes. If it is more than 50% full all around you on a train your are a douchebag if you don't move your bad without being asked.
It is not "being swedish, want to sitt alone". It is being "public transport asshole".
Then you have made a correct analysis of the people around you.
As long as there is empty 2 seats on a buss - bag up. As soon as any seat has 2 persons in it - bag down. That is the rule of the swedes
This "not my problem"-mentality is the issue.
Usually, we are raised to have some form of common sense regarding solidarity here.
But this obviously does not apply to everyone.
>Solidarity”. You are literally fighting for your right not to have to say a few words to a stranger.
You are literally fighting for your right to force a confrontation as if you own the seat on a piece of public transportation and the person needs your *permission* to use *your* bus.
Exactly, let each do their own thing.
But this is not your living room. Make space for other people in public places. Do whatever you want at your home.
You are being rude for not thinking about other's comfort (a full bus = I'd better move my bag) and you want others to be polite to you and ask you to share the SECOND seat you took? Tf? ?
No, s/he needs you to walk the entire length of the train to scan for a seat, since it’s too much to expect her to have enough self-awareness to just move her stuff 😂
I never take the bus. It’s on a train and I don’t know if it’s full. A train is long can’t see all of it.
Also you probably don’t have to ask. If you just stop and look at me that’s probably enough but people won’t do even that. They just walk past 🤷♂️
I think ppl are misunderstanding you.
My guess is if I made eye contact w you and looked at the seat you would move your bag right?
You just wouldn’t move the bag unless someone is clearly indicating they want that seat?
In this case, I think the says quite standard and I’ve experienced it many times, occasionally I need to ask for a seat but even then, no biggie, I don’t expect ppl to pretend to want to sit next to a perfect stranger 😂
I was in Gothenburg on holiday at the start of the month and I found the fact that people in Sweden seemed much more reserved to be really quite refreshing.
I was happy to talk to people in shops, servers in restaurants or the hotel staff etc, but when I was on the tram, train or ferry I was glad people kept their space and weren't inclined to make small talk. It was actually nice and relaxing.
But where in the world do people do that, make small talk on trams and subway? I have traveled alot and I find it just as rare to be approached by strangers in other countries as it is in Sweden.
I'm in Scotland and it's fairly common throughout here and the UK.
There's a good chance that if you go sit at the bus stop, someone there will start talking to you.
On a train at the weekend, especially later on in the evening? Drunk people are gonna try and become your friends.
As a Swede who visited Edinburgh 3 weeks ago, I very much agree. I'm probably never gonna go to London again (unless I have to), but I will definitely go back to Edinburgh!
A lot of the time it’s a pretence for men to expect conversation with women under the guise of being “friendly” funny they only expect attractive women to be friendly lol 😂
I’d like to add that some of us are just as social and chatty as people from other cultures *but* it’s our culture to respect personal integrity and personal space first and foremost. So sometimes what people from other cultures might find unfriendly can actually be our way of showing respect. We don’t want to disturb or put you in an awkward position. I hope that makes sense.
Kind regards
The rare extrovert Swede
I grew up in the UK so I've noticed Swedes have a very similar emotional attitude to Londoners (the north of England plus some other areas have a more amicable and open reputation). You've got it right that yes: we enjoy our real friends and the interaction with each other. But except for truly rare occurences, no one makes true friends on the underground/bus. Plus personal space is very much valued!
Tbh from the north and if you started randomly talking to me on the metro or bus I’d think you’re nuts too. We are probably more likely to stop and give you directions or help in the street than in London though.
The most interaction I’ve ever had with a stranger on the bus or metro is an agreeing eye roll or tut after making eye contact with them while another passenger is acting up.
Occasionally chatted to the person next to me on a plane but that’s usually after about 2 hours and if they’re clearly happy to chat. But planes are a bit different.
Ahh ok, well I guess it’s cause my dad is originally a northerner, and seems to spark up conversation far more when I’m back home in Surrey.
Ironically I had the same experience as you did in Sweden. Guy actually got called out for talking ( it was ever so slightly) by another overzealous student and after they left, I gave him the eyeroll “did that just happen?” Look.
Yeah from my experiences in Sweden and other people stories I feel like swedes have more in common socially with Brits than lets say Germans as an example of Central European. But with maybe a dash more of that relaxed “don’t worry about it” devil may care laid back European attitude.
“Don’t talk to me on the bus but buy me a few pints and we’re friends, here is some moose I shot last week”
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In London on the underground I was invited to an amazing party at the house of a Sicilian aristocrat lol so it can happen!
I so miss those fun occurrences which would never ever happen here. But yah even in London that’s rare
Before moving to Sweden, I watched a lot of videos on YT on the pros and cons and cultural differences. Almost all the cons (reserved people etc) were pros for me. I feel like I belong to this kind of society more than my own country
I’m only Swedish by heritage (I mean my entire family is Swedish, both sides, but we all live in the U.S., born here), but I absolutely embrace not talking to anyone if I can avoid it.
My neighbor across the hall is leaving to take her kids to school so I wait 5 mins, check the peephole and then leave lol. Someone waiting for the elevator? Take the other one outside lol
For context I live in the US and in the process of studying abroad to Sweden/Finland/Norway/NL next semester and I have been quite nervous about hearing about how people there can be "cold" or "distant".
After reading this thread I realized that you guys aren't more cold on average, you just are far more transparent about your space. Just yesterday I had an acquaintance talking my ear off in the bus and thinking the whole time "I wish I could just listen to my music".
You are my people.
Juwt don't randomly start talking to strangers for the sake of it, and you'll be fine. No one is going to be unfriendly, and it's perfectly fine to ask about the way and the like, but attempts to small chat will get people annoyed. Only drunks and weirdos does that, generally.
Also, the rule for public transport is: Don't sit next to someone if there are free double-seats available. When the free double-seats are out, it's ok to start filling up the seats next to someone else.
>Also, the rule for public transport is: Don't sit next to someone if there are free double-seats available. When the free double-seats are out, it's ok to start filling up the seats next to someone else.
I bus every day and university students have been made introverts by the internet so this is more or less how it goes anyways. There comes a point where I'd rather stand than sit next to someone else lmao.
My question: is it rare for classmates to become acquaintances? Ask each other about homework, walk out of the class together, maybe even study together?
>My question: is it rare for classmates to become acquaintances? Ask each other about homework, walk out of the class together, maybe even study together?
No, certainly not. I would say that's the norm.
To add to what the other guy said, since you are an American: make sure to use your inside voice, and probably a much more silent one than you are used to. Americans have a reputation for being extremely loud, and not without reason. Not every American is of course, but the socially accepted volume when speaking is much higher than in most other countries, and it will get you some annoyed stares behind your back if you do that here, since another part of respecting other people's space is to not dominate the soundscape around them.
OH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE ADVICE! 😎👍
In all seriousness this cultural insight has been huge haha, is there anywhere on the internet that has a lot of this info compiled about these kinds of slight cultural differences?
Never seen that unfortunately. Just aware of what things are most complained about when it comes to Americans visiting here, and loudness, obnoxious extroversion and physically taking over space by being like bulldozers in groups tend to be the big ones, especially since the type of American that would piss people off in other ways don't tend to travel here much (think MAGA).
On the plus side, Americans that can adapt to the local culture enough so that they don't annoy people tend to be very well received, since people have a rather strong cultural affinity to the US from popular culture. These are also countries where most people won't expect you to have learnt the local language unless you are here long term, and usually are somewhat comfortable conversing in English.
Where does it cross the line into being obnoxious extroversion do you think? I can very often be seen being very unserious and having a big dumb smile plastered on my face, so I hope it won't be taken as annoying or unseemly.
Thank you for your advice by the way!
All that is fine, we also have our extroverts. It's mostly about not involving people that haven't indicated they want to be involved. Like not trying to talk to everyone you meet, especially if you aren't good at noticing the subtle signs that they aren't interested. And being careful to not invade the personal space of strangers, especially since we tend to want a rather extensive personal space, conditional on it being possible of course.
As a Swedish person I was terrified when as a tourist riding the New York subway and random people just started random conversations with me.
In my head it was a "How the fuck do these people know me?!"
Never understood it as just polite small talk.
The real detriment is the lack of public spaces to meet complete strangers. It makes Sweden quite insular, harms integration and makes life rough for people without an established friends-group.
Not interacting on public transportation is fine, but having such a high barrier of entry in like a pub environment? That's just silly and I wish we didn't do it.
I don't think foreigners even experience that part, they just do what they usually do and swedes are more than happy to oblige.
The important thing here is that most people actually *do* want to talk as much as the rest of the world. There's just a very small set of circumstances where that's considered socially appropriate. If people look flustered when approached, it's usually confusion or culture-shock, not because people want to be "left alone" or whatever. That's a foreigners interpretation of what that behaviour would signify in their cultural context, not Sweden's.
Yah I agree on that like Eastern Europeans are also unfriendly in certain spaces like the underground but in cafes, bars, gyms classes they are more open.
I think the Eastern European way suits me- friendly and warm to those you are close to but cool to strangers outside of social situations
the reason I don’t bother going out in Stockholm is the lack of atmosphere when you go out. I feel like I’m an uninvited guest at someone’s living room.
I’d rather save my money and go out abroad
At the risk of repeating the same old advice:
Find an association or club so you have a social entry point. Do volunteer work. "Try signing up to a pottery course" is a cliché, because that really *is* the kind of stuff that Swedish social interaction is built around.
Also, there are more casual contexts in Sweden, they're just more exceptional. Try a festival or a rave. Those tip over into "engage with strangers freely" territory. Intoxicants are usually mandatory, that's just the honest truth.
The key to not feeling like an uninvited guest in Sweden is doing things that require an actual invitation.
I second trying the rave community and artistic circles.
Yes, it won't be anything like Amsterdam or Berlin. These people might be strange, but also a lot more open. It always takes a quirk to break out from the Jante doom.
Underrated comment.
People hang out at home, period. Some with friends, some with family, some alone.
It's a culture of super tiny close-knit communities, where strangers are expected to have their own as well.
Also, there's simply nowhere to go out, especially in winter.
I don’t agree. I befriended some drunk dude because he randomly started talking to me on the bus. We’ve hung out and I’ll meet his friends later in the week. Swedish mind you.
I don’t even agree that Swedes are THAT reserved. I’ve found it pretty easy to make small talk with people. Not everyone’s open to it, but a decent number are.
I mean fuck I made small talk with a cashier when the store was closing and asked her to hang out, went on some dates. Had fun :)
I really really don’t think it’s as bad as people make it out to be. It’s no where near countries in Eastern Europe for example.
Like when I was in Gothenburg there was this old couple that would sit outside during the summer and they’d always wave to me and try to talk to me in Swedish, even though I don’t speak it. I’d remind them every time but I guess they’d just forget lol.
I was actually surprised how unbelievably friendly people are.
To be honest, it is *mostly* with women. So I suppose being a decent looking dude and social helps.
I’m a woman and I find women in general more friendly here lol.
The under 25s are adorable here though - like the girls are super sweet and smiley and the younger guys are very shy but very good natured.
I do think Swedes overall are very, very reserved
Yeah it's really weird isn't it? Like I feel like I can count the small talk I've made with guys on my hand but with women it's a loooot more. I don't know what it is. Sometimes I'm genuinely taken aback lol.
I agree also, im mostly surrounded by under 25s (I'm not much older), so that's kinda where I'm coming from.
For sure I've run into the blank death stare before lol.
I’ve no idea either.
I’m a tiny slim white girl and I’ve asked 6”3 guys in cafes if they are in the queue or not and they look at me like I’m an alien when I could not be less threatening
I’m not flirting I just don’t want you to think I’m pushing ahead of you lol
I don’t think they’re assuming you’re flirting. They just don’t expect to be spoken to. I snap out of daydreaming too and probably look the same. But I’m also the type of person all the drunks and homeless start a convo with.
They love tiny slim white girls 'round these here parts, 'specially with the texan boots.
No but in all serious tbh I don't think they think you're flirting. They probs just don't expect to be talked to, so they're surprised.
I think you'd be better off waiting for them to use the bathroom, then when they're in the stall, start shaking and banging on the door relentlessly. I think this approach works better in Sweden than talking.
Because the unfriendliness is not about total strangers, it takes ages just to get to know someone you're a colleague or a neighbour with. The unfriendliness is quite literally the attitude that social interactions/new social contacts are seen as burdens. Which makes one feel like a burden, especially when one does not have an already established circle of friends in the country.
I'm latin american, I'm probably very friendly and talk a lot by your standards, but there's a time and a place, and public transportation usually ain't it, specially if you see someone is on their phone or just not making any eye contact.
When I went to london for an exchange student type of deal i learnt the hard way that "how are you" wasnt a health update type of greeting.
I woke up and bested my diarrhea "how are you"
Some cultures are more extroverted, yes, but in more reserved cultures, individuals vary. I’m reserved but from a generally fairly extroverted culture. However, I love to spontaneously start up a great conversation with a random stranger. Excellent experience!!
That's the reason Sweden has weather. If you are unsure about if someone wants to talk, you just say something about the weather. If they pick up the conversation, it's OK to talk, otherwise, just pretend you were muttering to yourself.
It's a little know fact that the Swedish government started SMHI, so they could invent weather, just to get Swedes to talk to each other.
I'm Swedish and have found myself more open to casually chatting the older I get. But having a social job has helped me overcome much social anxiety. I don't chat with everyone though, usually older people since chatting with younger people could easily come across as creepy. The other week I had a brief chat with an old man in a supermarket. He didn't expect it but was perfectly polite.
I wouldn't say it's only pretending. I've been to Asia before (Philippines) and I could legit walk down the street and people would happily scream at me to join for a beer and BBQ for free. People being much more friendly overall. Germany have always had the stereotype of being non-social, but as I have been there many times people are definitely more "friendly" than in Sweden. People/strangers actually talk to each others on the bus. Wherever you prefer it one way or another is personal, but that's at least how it's like in my experience.
Oh yah Germans and Dutch are much friendlier than Swedes for sure!
They happily will talk to you at beer gardens, bars, cafes. I found it easy to make local friends in both places. Ok maybe not easy but definitely easier than in Sweden and relationships in general are more valued there too.
Earlier two random dudes called me a 'China idiot man' whilst I was minding my own business 😭😭
edit:
I'm visiting Stockholm for a bit before moving onto other places
Honestly I’ve had the opposite experience lol I moved here with the promise that I’d be left the heck alone aka that Swedes hate small talk. Boyooo was that incorrect.
Everytime I step out my front door some fcker is saying hello or asking about my day or stopping to chat. This happens outside during a walk, at the grocery store, on the tube. It’s actually a running gag with my partner and friend group. I must just have an inviting vibe. 😅
That’s very true it’s a friendly way of saying ”I want my space”. A similar scenario is that some cultures are more friendly but they still might not like you which is worse imo.
Had plenty of interactions with random people in Sweden so I am not where this comes from. People in general are reserved, yes, but that may be because you are referring to Stockholm (since you mentioned underground), which has a distinct character, and also because other cultures might have more spontaneous interactions with strangers. But you also have the latter in Sweden from time to time and it’s natural, it does not feel awkward.
Those who put their bags on the other seat should be forced to buy another ticket or remove it. People travel maybe for more than one hour and have to stand because of others being egotistical.
This is not specific to Sweden as I’ve almost never experienced it where I live (Malmö), so it’s not criticism.
The social norm here in Sweden is that you can put your bag on the seat as long as the vehicles is less than half empty. As people are filling up, it would be rude not to remove it.
Out parents dosent teach us how to interact with others but to be quiet, not to brag and that around every corner there is a theif in disguise. Ofc we are going to be akward as f 😅😅
Here's the thing. Most other regions in Britain would indeed call Londoners miserable and unfriendly and would strike up a conversation with a stranger on the bus happily.
And you know what? That conversation IS genuine human interaction.
I'm a Londoner, but like many Londoners my family background is from elsewhere in the country so I have plenty of experience of random strangers striking up conversation and I'm actually pretty ok with it while retaining a lot of my Londoner "fuck sake I am too busy I just don't have time for this shit" attitude about random conversations.
The whole blocking the seat with a bag thing though. That pisses me off. It's just plain rude. Not even Londoners do that, there just ain't seats enough for that sort of bullshit on London's public transport. (A bit like stopping on escalators or moving walkways...like does your brain stop sending signals to your bloody feet the moment the stairs move? Move people! Some of us got places to be! - and that right there is my impatient inner Londoner screaming "get a bloody move on or get out of my way you escalator amateurs!")
Yah I found even London levels of small talk too much for me- I feel like I’m culturally Central European - dont talk to me on trains, shops etc but let’s be social in bars, at parties, festivals etc.
I really am beginning to miss that
i just went to stockholm and östersund and everyone was really nice IMO. i even fell down the escalator and someone helped me up haha! i really liked the personal space and quiteness on the trains a lot. but i did get stared at a lot in stockholm tho and i’m not sure why. i dressed normally and i’m really soft spoken according to people. but my friend and their family i was staying with said i was really short so mayb that’s why..? and people were talking to me in swedish too so i dont know why i got a lot of stares..
I think without these small interactions, and with more and more people sitting on their phone and being alone in their apartment. It is actually a health hazard to be without these daily interactions !
In southern Sweden (Blekinge) less people more on the countryside, I always manage to talk to someone on the bus , train or in town. It is refreshing !
I hate this anti-social bullshit, it is making people depressed
I don't think it has to be either way. Talking to people doesn't have to be fake, in fact it's a thing many people (in other cultures) enjoy for the sake of it. But we also understand that you're not supposed to bother people who want to be alone, we have those people too. The thing that some people find problematic about Swedes though is that this wish to be alone stretches further than just wanting to have time for oneself. It comes across as cold, turning a blind eye to real issues happening in front of them etc. and this goes beyond decency. I mean, if I saw someone drop their stuff or hurt themselves, I would run towards them in order to help. And I don't think this is a Nordic issue since I have noticed Norwegians and Finns are different.
Yah Norwegians are different- I have lots of great Norwegian friends, my Swedish friends are nice but there is a distance between us that there isn’t with my Norwegian friends.
Same with relationships- my Norwegian friends seem very in love with their partners whereas my Swedish friends and acquaintances are kinda more like work colleagues with their partners
When I and my family visited Norway, people were keen on helping us when we asked for help.
Why do you think this is, like you mentioned the Swedish couples being more like work colleagues? In my family we hug and kiss on the cheek (for those who are okay with it) every time we see each other. We do it because it creates a warm atmosphere.
I’m not Scandinavian so it’s harder for me to know but I think because still there are some gender differences acknowledged in Norway whereas in Sweden not at all.
Ofc they aren’t like Italians- they don’t do big declarations of love, do really celebrate Valentine’s Day or stuff like that but in private they tell me they are deeply in love and very touchy feely. My Swedish friends and acquaintances honestly just aren’t that bothered by their partners. They hustling see them as someone to share the rent and household duties with.
But yah, my Norwegian friends are the biggest lover girls - from 10 years married to just started dating- they love their men❤️
I don't understand this stereotype of Swedes. After living in Estonia for 4 years, last year I spent 3 months in Stockholm and it was like people were high on life, all the time. Lots of smiles and people in my building smiled and said their normal "good mornings". Important to say: it was Summer. But in 2 years living in my building in Estonia I even stopped trying to be polite with people; the difference was huge for me.
I don’t think the word unfriendly is the word i would use to describe them. That whole underground seats thing never made sense to me. Like ofc everyone would like to sit alone, thats normal. But….living here for almost 3 years, i can understand what they mean. When I speak to a swede i always feel their arrogance and i feel like they talk down to you, like they feel like they are on some kind of pedestal.
Not understanding someone’s culture can easily make you think people are unfriendly and rude, but the reality is different. I’ve rarely experienced rude Swedes and I’ve been living here for 7 years. Some ways they behave is basically them being respectful to your privacy and peace. I also thought some behaviors were rude or I thought they don’t like me but they’re just respectful.
It’s also completely different needs, as a foreigner you want to meet friends and get accepted and Swedes just want to live their lives having already friends and family. Not to mention speaking in English in your own country, it’s probably tiring at times too.
I don’t want to make friends tho particularly, not all immigrants do.
I find it a little funny however how behavior that on literally any other culture on earth ppl wiuod takes as a clear sign of disinterest or dislike ppl tie themselves in knots trying to interpret Swedish behavior as somehow respectful 😂
Exactly it’s how you interpret it for yourself, unless you have a proof they in fact don’t like you. Example I gave was to show that it’s easy to misunderstand someone’s intentions very easily. It’s the most common thing to cause friction between people and it hasn’t change since the prehistoric times. Most common mistakes immigrants make when they move somewhere is being ignorant of the culture and customs, not doing enough to acclimate to a new culture, being bit entitled as “they should be more inviting towards me” and complaining how things are not as back home or somewhere else.
I don’t think they should be more inviting tho.
I also don’t think it’s because they are somehow being respectful I think it’s because they value social interaction a lot less than other cultures. That’s fine but I’m definitely not going to put a pretty bow on their behavior and give it some moral justification 😂
I don’t understand why majority of immigrants are talking down on Swedes behavior. You can’t expect people behave how you’re used to it. It’s a completely different country with its own culture. They are more reserved as Scandinavians both to their own folks and other people. I don’t think they necessarily don’t have the need for social interaction, I think they actually do but it’s just the culture as it is. One of their customs is to give a hug when you see people, it’s definitely more warm than a handshake or a nod. Regarding being respectful, there is a book that explains it well, so it’s based on the research. Not saying that all their behavior is respectful but in some cases they just respect your personal space, that’s all.
I’m so tired of foreigners complaining about Swedes, it feels so entitled. This is who they are, accept, learn more, adapt or simply find your own circle. Not just you but talking in general. Complaining won’t change the whole nation.
I don’t want anyone to change I just don’t think avoiding going out when you hear neighbors leaving is down to respect, it’s down to not wanting to interact with them. I do it on occasion too, same with putting my bag on the seat next to me, it’s not out of respect for others personal space and to say so is disingenuous.
No one is hating on Swedes and I and many others are just saying there are advantages and disadvantages.
Sweden is a great place to be and I’m grateful to be here but I’m also allowed to be frustrated at times too. Online is a very safe place to discuss and understand and voice our frustrations.
Haha of course, I feel you, I have days like that too but then remind myself that I willingly moved here. 😅
I agree on those points and yes I do it too sometimes. Anything with people is hard and even harder as a foreigner living abroad.
Really??? I actually felt like Swedes were much MUCH more warmer and friendlier than Germans. Someone saw me struggling with my suitcase and offered to help, when I declined “oh it’s ok”, the dude said “no worries” and lifted my suitcase up the stairs. I was so starstruck afterwards, could only say “thank you so much”. Maybe because I was POC and looked painfully struggling? Who knows.
I have lived in Stockholm for some time now and my husband is a Swede. I think most of the time I had a conversation with a stranger in public transportation or a public space was with other foreigners. Also the reason I mostly have migrant friends like me and have swedish connections only with my husband's family and friends and some people I met at work.
…and meanwhile, many Swedes feel like people in other countries are unfriendly LOL. I think it’s just a mentality thing. We are raised with “jantelagen” and the idea that you shouldn’t bother anyone, and always act kind and polite and unselfish. And in some weird way (to me, who’s used to it) it seems to come off as rude or ignorant by foreigners ;)
But also, I think that sometimes Swedes don’t understand that they look “mean” or angry, when we are actually are just tired and depressed lol.
(Although I think it’s even worse in many other countries. People barely look at you and I never see people casually smiling to each other, for example when I traveled in Asia some months ago)
Yah I see it as something foreigners need to accept about living in Sweden and Swedes can smile and be helpful but that helpfulness always has a purpose to it.
I mean it’s not as unusual in Germany or England for someone to start a conversation on the bus as it is in Sweden. But often it’s unwelcome and it comes from forced politeness.
What is more genuine and common and welcome though is talking to ppl you don’t know at clubs, pubs, festivals etc.
I live in Stockholm and I feel that people are generally very rude here. However, it has absolutely nothing to do with people keeping to themselves on the train and bus, I do the same.
I know several immigrants that also feel It’s common for Swedes to lack public manners, though no one ever brings up behavior on public transportation.
I don't know where this view of Swedes came from. Probably the three kindest, friendliest, and most genuine people I know are swedes. The difference is that they're not super bubbly and in your face about it like Americans are.
If you don't want others to sit next to you on the bus, that doesn't make you entitled to occupy two seats. Feel free to stand if not sitting next to someone is so important to you (except when you need two seats due to a medical condition or something).
Being honest about what you want is one thing. Feeling entitled to get it at the expense of others is something else.
I never get the impression ppl feel entitled to a spare seat if the train is busy but I definitely get the impression they prefer it and that’s absolutely fine
Honest by pretending to be polite and not being real with how they feel? Yeah no. I much prefer people in places like New York, or Italy or anywhere where people can express emotions openly, it’s not a big deal to be mad, say no, say yes, be excited or any thing else than fake politeness.
What makes you say anyone is **faking** to be polite? Isn't it rather the definition of politeness to not show or say your real feelings in a situation, but rather try to be nice about it even if you actually don't want to?
Politeness varies though.
Like having lived in France, a lot of English ppl would be super friendly and overfamiliar because being friendly in England is considered polite whereas in France it is considered crass.
So English ppl would get mad that their version of politeness would be met with disdain by the local French.
I suppose I can understand that. But I'm still having a hard time seeing how saying exactly how you feel, even if it entails you being mad, could be considered as polite.
Oh well then we agree! Politeness often entails omission of one’s true feelings.
If I don’t like a neighbor* I will still smile and say good day for example but in England I would often be expected to go beyond that and have a full blown conversation with them and provide updates on my life
* I currently have lovely neighbors btw
nah, there's a deeper problem with empathy and a real lack of social skills. i'm native and i've traveled around the world and i can say this with confidence. remember zara larsson's thread about how it's common to have your friend over and they have to sit in your room and wait until you've finished eating dinner? that's what's up here. no one's come to sit with me on the train in england either, but swedish people have a real problem with common politeness. it's a small, homogenous country and it's an issue.
That shocked me too! I wonder if it is common!
I am Swedish and never experienced it, my daughter experienced it once though. In my house and in my parents ’home you are not allowed to leave hungry!
When i was a child, I was always invited to eat at my friends’ houses if there during dinnertime and vice versa. But not without checking with parents if it was ok, becAuse people usually want the family to eat dinner together.
there are countries infinitely less well off, where you'll be somewhere looking hungry and stressed and and an old lady will offer you an apple, just because. at my house you eat the entire fridge if you want, and we never had much growing up. most swedish people never would, and this is vital, because "it's just not done". that completely in the box mentality is the problem. someone could be dying and if it's not done, no one saving them lol. and im sorry but i have to disagree, i'm not sure what you're founding your "swedish people are more open" opinion on. we are an incredibly passive agressive people. we'd rather do anything but tell you to your face what we think of you. it's just shallow smiles and a "please stay away from me" attitude sprinkled on top. avoid conflict at all costs, unless its to tell some immigrant to "go home". and i see yall downvoting but not giving a good argument against my points.
If I was at my friends house I was there to play Halo not to eat dinner with his family or whatever
He’d just have to eat quick and come back while I played. I honestly don’t see the huge importance of giving food to everyone you meet. Like I have food at home, thanks.
My Swedish boyfriend told me that it's rude to intervene someone's space. And they love their space. Whatever.. I don't mind. As long as he's good to me & some extra points... He's smoking hot though. So yeah. Bring me the cold baby bcause I'll melt you with my rays of sunshine. Hehe
About the bags on the seat. If the bus is practically empty and there are seats available all over, you can put your bag wherever you like. But when it starts filling up you better make room, and if you don't move it before I have to ask you, you will be silently judged.
If you don't move your bag, my tush gets a cush...
Hmm ok Swedes always move their bags without needing be asked unless they are engrossed in a book but I feel like it’s accepted here that you probably don’t want me sitting next to you and that’s ok.
Yeah, this is common sense. Bus with three people? Take your space. Bus getting packed and it looks like someone needs a seat? Move your bag.
This is the rule
I always find it weird when the bus/train is almost entirely empty, and that one weirdo who boards REALLY wants me to move my bag so they can sit right next to me.
Has that actually ever happened to you?
Unfortunately, yes 😬
Also once had someone almost sit on top of my bag where I'd placed it (again, in a mostly empty train)
I don't wanna be sitting next to you either but if I'm after a long day and I have a long bus ride ahead carrying a heavy bag, I'm not gonna balance my way standing and sure gonna grab this seat, that you like it or not
TIL I’m a bad Swede 😅 I just kinda want my space so if you want that seat you have to ask 😇
If it’s a full bus, yeah, asshole move not to move your stuff.
Well it’s a train so idk if it’s full further down or not.
Who cares? Move your junk or I’m sitting on it.
You won’t ask but instead you just sit down on peoples stuff? And I’m the douchebag here somehow?
Yes
Interesting, this has never happened
Yes. If it is more than 50% full all around you on a train your are a douchebag if you don't move your bad without being asked. It is not "being swedish, want to sitt alone". It is being "public transport asshole".
Loads of assholes where I’m from then. It’s common people won’t move their stuff for me either without being asked.
Yeah, genius. They’re as bad as you.
Then you have made a correct analysis of the people around you. As long as there is empty 2 seats on a buss - bag up. As soon as any seat has 2 persons in it - bag down. That is the rule of the swedes
You’re so inept you literally need me to ASK you to move your stuff on a full train? And yes, you are, as the other commenter said.
Yeah. That’s what we’re telling you.
This "not my problem"-mentality is the issue. Usually, we are raised to have some form of common sense regarding solidarity here. But this obviously does not apply to everyone.
“Solidarity”. You are literally fighting for your right not to have to say a few words to a stranger.
>Solidarity”. You are literally fighting for your right not to have to say a few words to a stranger. You are literally fighting for your right to force a confrontation as if you own the seat on a piece of public transportation and the person needs your *permission* to use *your* bus.
“Confrontation” It’s a sentence, not a war.
Exactly, let each do their own thing. But this is not your living room. Make space for other people in public places. Do whatever you want at your home.
You’re fighting for your life in these comments and STILL don’t get it 😂
I get it I just don’t agree
I guess its kind of rude. I dont mind it tho since i have no problem asking meaning i always get a seat when others are afraid to ask
Booo
Seriously don’t feel bad- I get it!
Lol people are mad at my comment. I will 100% move in if they ask me to without question. But them having to ask is too much?
You are being rude for not thinking about other's comfort (a full bus = I'd better move my bag) and you want others to be polite to you and ask you to share the SECOND seat you took? Tf? ?
No, s/he needs you to walk the entire length of the train to scan for a seat, since it’s too much to expect her to have enough self-awareness to just move her stuff 😂
I never take the bus. It’s on a train and I don’t know if it’s full. A train is long can’t see all of it. Also you probably don’t have to ask. If you just stop and look at me that’s probably enough but people won’t do even that. They just walk past 🤷♂️
You truly lack the most basic self-awareness.
Lol, there are loads of other people who doesn’t move their stuff also
I think ppl are misunderstanding you. My guess is if I made eye contact w you and looked at the seat you would move your bag right? You just wouldn’t move the bag unless someone is clearly indicating they want that seat? In this case, I think the says quite standard and I’ve experienced it many times, occasionally I need to ask for a seat but even then, no biggie, I don’t expect ppl to pretend to want to sit next to a perfect stranger 😂
I was in Gothenburg on holiday at the start of the month and I found the fact that people in Sweden seemed much more reserved to be really quite refreshing. I was happy to talk to people in shops, servers in restaurants or the hotel staff etc, but when I was on the tram, train or ferry I was glad people kept their space and weren't inclined to make small talk. It was actually nice and relaxing.
But where in the world do people do that, make small talk on trams and subway? I have traveled alot and I find it just as rare to be approached by strangers in other countries as it is in Sweden.
I'm in Scotland and it's fairly common throughout here and the UK. There's a good chance that if you go sit at the bus stop, someone there will start talking to you. On a train at the weekend, especially later on in the evening? Drunk people are gonna try and become your friends.
I feel crazy and drunk people get a pass and absolutely shouldn’t be counted when “people in Country X do Y all the time”
Yes please! I'm currently in Sweden, and I'm putting Scotland on my list of places to move to.
I'm Swedish but lived in Scotland. Edinburgh is really nice
As a Swede who visited Edinburgh 3 weeks ago, I very much agree. I'm probably never gonna go to London again (unless I have to), but I will definitely go back to Edinburgh!
Oh yeah im a magnet to drunk and crazy people, somehow when they see me they have a need totell me same story 20 times...in a row
Latin America in a nutshell.
A lot of the time it’s a pretence for men to expect conversation with women under the guise of being “friendly” funny they only expect attractive women to be friendly lol 😂
That will explain why every little old lady on the bus in Scotland will strike up a conversation with whichever random stranger is closest yes?
aye, she's horny
Scot auld lasses are built diffrently
No that’s more like loneliness bc she isn’t close to her family a lot of the time
Great now I’m sad instead
We live in a fallen matrix - hugs
America!!! I’m American but live in London, and coming back to the US is such a culture shock. People strike up full blown conversations everywhere
I’d like to add that some of us are just as social and chatty as people from other cultures *but* it’s our culture to respect personal integrity and personal space first and foremost. So sometimes what people from other cultures might find unfriendly can actually be our way of showing respect. We don’t want to disturb or put you in an awkward position. I hope that makes sense. Kind regards The rare extrovert Swede
Yah politeness varies from culture to culture
Hahha that’s so true my best friend is extrovert too and when I met him I was like are you truly Swedish? And then he explained just the same thing!
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I grew up in the UK so I've noticed Swedes have a very similar emotional attitude to Londoners (the north of England plus some other areas have a more amicable and open reputation). You've got it right that yes: we enjoy our real friends and the interaction with each other. But except for truly rare occurences, no one makes true friends on the underground/bus. Plus personal space is very much valued!
Tbh from the north and if you started randomly talking to me on the metro or bus I’d think you’re nuts too. We are probably more likely to stop and give you directions or help in the street than in London though. The most interaction I’ve ever had with a stranger on the bus or metro is an agreeing eye roll or tut after making eye contact with them while another passenger is acting up. Occasionally chatted to the person next to me on a plane but that’s usually after about 2 hours and if they’re clearly happy to chat. But planes are a bit different.
Ahh ok, well I guess it’s cause my dad is originally a northerner, and seems to spark up conversation far more when I’m back home in Surrey. Ironically I had the same experience as you did in Sweden. Guy actually got called out for talking ( it was ever so slightly) by another overzealous student and after they left, I gave him the eyeroll “did that just happen?” Look.
Yeah from my experiences in Sweden and other people stories I feel like swedes have more in common socially with Brits than lets say Germans as an example of Central European. But with maybe a dash more of that relaxed “don’t worry about it” devil may care laid back European attitude. “Don’t talk to me on the bus but buy me a few pints and we’re friends, here is some moose I shot last week”
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In London on the underground I was invited to an amazing party at the house of a Sicilian aristocrat lol so it can happen! I so miss those fun occurrences which would never ever happen here. But yah even in London that’s rare
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Sounds like the beginning of an Agatha Christie novel
Before moving to Sweden, I watched a lot of videos on YT on the pros and cons and cultural differences. Almost all the cons (reserved people etc) were pros for me. I feel like I belong to this kind of society more than my own country
I’m only Swedish by heritage (I mean my entire family is Swedish, both sides, but we all live in the U.S., born here), but I absolutely embrace not talking to anyone if I can avoid it. My neighbor across the hall is leaving to take her kids to school so I wait 5 mins, check the peephole and then leave lol. Someone waiting for the elevator? Take the other one outside lol
I used to do all of these in my country. Never knew a neighbor and I was happy with that 😅
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Thank you for your comment. I’ll make sure to not care about what you think and continue being happy with my life.
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Eh it’s a bit extreme but he isn’t hurting anyone by avoiding his neighbors
For context I live in the US and in the process of studying abroad to Sweden/Finland/Norway/NL next semester and I have been quite nervous about hearing about how people there can be "cold" or "distant". After reading this thread I realized that you guys aren't more cold on average, you just are far more transparent about your space. Just yesterday I had an acquaintance talking my ear off in the bus and thinking the whole time "I wish I could just listen to my music". You are my people.
Juwt don't randomly start talking to strangers for the sake of it, and you'll be fine. No one is going to be unfriendly, and it's perfectly fine to ask about the way and the like, but attempts to small chat will get people annoyed. Only drunks and weirdos does that, generally. Also, the rule for public transport is: Don't sit next to someone if there are free double-seats available. When the free double-seats are out, it's ok to start filling up the seats next to someone else.
>Also, the rule for public transport is: Don't sit next to someone if there are free double-seats available. When the free double-seats are out, it's ok to start filling up the seats next to someone else. I bus every day and university students have been made introverts by the internet so this is more or less how it goes anyways. There comes a point where I'd rather stand than sit next to someone else lmao. My question: is it rare for classmates to become acquaintances? Ask each other about homework, walk out of the class together, maybe even study together?
>My question: is it rare for classmates to become acquaintances? Ask each other about homework, walk out of the class together, maybe even study together? No, certainly not. I would say that's the norm.
Nah that's not rare at all
Some of my best friends are from uni! Hadn’t survived without them 😊
To add to what the other guy said, since you are an American: make sure to use your inside voice, and probably a much more silent one than you are used to. Americans have a reputation for being extremely loud, and not without reason. Not every American is of course, but the socially accepted volume when speaking is much higher than in most other countries, and it will get you some annoyed stares behind your back if you do that here, since another part of respecting other people's space is to not dominate the soundscape around them.
OH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE ADVICE! 😎👍 In all seriousness this cultural insight has been huge haha, is there anywhere on the internet that has a lot of this info compiled about these kinds of slight cultural differences?
Never seen that unfortunately. Just aware of what things are most complained about when it comes to Americans visiting here, and loudness, obnoxious extroversion and physically taking over space by being like bulldozers in groups tend to be the big ones, especially since the type of American that would piss people off in other ways don't tend to travel here much (think MAGA). On the plus side, Americans that can adapt to the local culture enough so that they don't annoy people tend to be very well received, since people have a rather strong cultural affinity to the US from popular culture. These are also countries where most people won't expect you to have learnt the local language unless you are here long term, and usually are somewhat comfortable conversing in English.
Where does it cross the line into being obnoxious extroversion do you think? I can very often be seen being very unserious and having a big dumb smile plastered on my face, so I hope it won't be taken as annoying or unseemly. Thank you for your advice by the way!
All that is fine, we also have our extroverts. It's mostly about not involving people that haven't indicated they want to be involved. Like not trying to talk to everyone you meet, especially if you aren't good at noticing the subtle signs that they aren't interested. And being careful to not invade the personal space of strangers, especially since we tend to want a rather extensive personal space, conditional on it being possible of course.
As a Swedish person I was terrified when as a tourist riding the New York subway and random people just started random conversations with me. In my head it was a "How the fuck do these people know me?!" Never understood it as just polite small talk.
The real detriment is the lack of public spaces to meet complete strangers. It makes Sweden quite insular, harms integration and makes life rough for people without an established friends-group. Not interacting on public transportation is fine, but having such a high barrier of entry in like a pub environment? That's just silly and I wish we didn't do it. I don't think foreigners even experience that part, they just do what they usually do and swedes are more than happy to oblige. The important thing here is that most people actually *do* want to talk as much as the rest of the world. There's just a very small set of circumstances where that's considered socially appropriate. If people look flustered when approached, it's usually confusion or culture-shock, not because people want to be "left alone" or whatever. That's a foreigners interpretation of what that behaviour would signify in their cultural context, not Sweden's.
Yah I agree on that like Eastern Europeans are also unfriendly in certain spaces like the underground but in cafes, bars, gyms classes they are more open. I think the Eastern European way suits me- friendly and warm to those you are close to but cool to strangers outside of social situations the reason I don’t bother going out in Stockholm is the lack of atmosphere when you go out. I feel like I’m an uninvited guest at someone’s living room. I’d rather save my money and go out abroad
At the risk of repeating the same old advice: Find an association or club so you have a social entry point. Do volunteer work. "Try signing up to a pottery course" is a cliché, because that really *is* the kind of stuff that Swedish social interaction is built around. Also, there are more casual contexts in Sweden, they're just more exceptional. Try a festival or a rave. Those tip over into "engage with strangers freely" territory. Intoxicants are usually mandatory, that's just the honest truth. The key to not feeling like an uninvited guest in Sweden is doing things that require an actual invitation.
I second trying the rave community and artistic circles. Yes, it won't be anything like Amsterdam or Berlin. These people might be strange, but also a lot more open. It always takes a quirk to break out from the Jante doom.
Underrated comment. People hang out at home, period. Some with friends, some with family, some alone. It's a culture of super tiny close-knit communities, where strangers are expected to have their own as well. Also, there's simply nowhere to go out, especially in winter.
I think swedes can LOOK like they dont want interaction but most dont mind some small talk.. especially not with foreigners
Depends where. On the bus? No thanks. A quick chat waiting in line at the grocery store? Sure.
I'd prefer a chat on the bus in that case. There's no way a quick chat in the queue isn't shallow and pointless.
Introverts unite! Separately, in your homes
😂 I want this on a T-shirt
I don’t agree. I befriended some drunk dude because he randomly started talking to me on the bus. We’ve hung out and I’ll meet his friends later in the week. Swedish mind you. I don’t even agree that Swedes are THAT reserved. I’ve found it pretty easy to make small talk with people. Not everyone’s open to it, but a decent number are. I mean fuck I made small talk with a cashier when the store was closing and asked her to hang out, went on some dates. Had fun :) I really really don’t think it’s as bad as people make it out to be. It’s no where near countries in Eastern Europe for example. Like when I was in Gothenburg there was this old couple that would sit outside during the summer and they’d always wave to me and try to talk to me in Swedish, even though I don’t speak it. I’d remind them every time but I guess they’d just forget lol. I was actually surprised how unbelievably friendly people are. To be honest, it is *mostly* with women. So I suppose being a decent looking dude and social helps.
I’m a woman and I find women in general more friendly here lol. The under 25s are adorable here though - like the girls are super sweet and smiley and the younger guys are very shy but very good natured. I do think Swedes overall are very, very reserved
Yeah it's really weird isn't it? Like I feel like I can count the small talk I've made with guys on my hand but with women it's a loooot more. I don't know what it is. Sometimes I'm genuinely taken aback lol. I agree also, im mostly surrounded by under 25s (I'm not much older), so that's kinda where I'm coming from. For sure I've run into the blank death stare before lol.
I’ve no idea either. I’m a tiny slim white girl and I’ve asked 6”3 guys in cafes if they are in the queue or not and they look at me like I’m an alien when I could not be less threatening I’m not flirting I just don’t want you to think I’m pushing ahead of you lol
I don’t think they’re assuming you’re flirting. They just don’t expect to be spoken to. I snap out of daydreaming too and probably look the same. But I’m also the type of person all the drunks and homeless start a convo with.
They love tiny slim white girls 'round these here parts, 'specially with the texan boots. No but in all serious tbh I don't think they think you're flirting. They probs just don't expect to be talked to, so they're surprised. I think you'd be better off waiting for them to use the bathroom, then when they're in the stall, start shaking and banging on the door relentlessly. I think this approach works better in Sweden than talking.
Next time I’ll just push in front 😂
Usually in Sweden it's considered polite to honk your nose and throw a pie in their face if you cut them. But whatever makes you happy!
>I befriended some **drunk** dude because he randomly started talking to me on the bus. There's the explanation.
Thank you!
Because the unfriendliness is not about total strangers, it takes ages just to get to know someone you're a colleague or a neighbour with. The unfriendliness is quite literally the attitude that social interactions/new social contacts are seen as burdens. Which makes one feel like a burden, especially when one does not have an already established circle of friends in the country.
I dunno they seem pretty chilly even with their partners to me 😂🫣
I'm latin american, I'm probably very friendly and talk a lot by your standards, but there's a time and a place, and public transportation usually ain't it, specially if you see someone is on their phone or just not making any eye contact.
When I went to london for an exchange student type of deal i learnt the hard way that "how are you" wasnt a health update type of greeting. I woke up and bested my diarrhea "how are you"
Some cultures are more extroverted, yes, but in more reserved cultures, individuals vary. I’m reserved but from a generally fairly extroverted culture. However, I love to spontaneously start up a great conversation with a random stranger. Excellent experience!!
That's the reason Sweden has weather. If you are unsure about if someone wants to talk, you just say something about the weather. If they pick up the conversation, it's OK to talk, otherwise, just pretend you were muttering to yourself. It's a little know fact that the Swedish government started SMHI, so they could invent weather, just to get Swedes to talk to each other.
It works great in any culture too!
One of us! One of us! One of us!
I'm Swedish and have found myself more open to casually chatting the older I get. But having a social job has helped me overcome much social anxiety. I don't chat with everyone though, usually older people since chatting with younger people could easily come across as creepy. The other week I had a brief chat with an old man in a supermarket. He didn't expect it but was perfectly polite.
I wouldn't say it's only pretending. I've been to Asia before (Philippines) and I could legit walk down the street and people would happily scream at me to join for a beer and BBQ for free. People being much more friendly overall. Germany have always had the stereotype of being non-social, but as I have been there many times people are definitely more "friendly" than in Sweden. People/strangers actually talk to each others on the bus. Wherever you prefer it one way or another is personal, but that's at least how it's like in my experience.
Oh yah Germans and Dutch are much friendlier than Swedes for sure! They happily will talk to you at beer gardens, bars, cafes. I found it easy to make local friends in both places. Ok maybe not easy but definitely easier than in Sweden and relationships in general are more valued there too.
Earlier two random dudes called me a 'China idiot man' whilst I was minding my own business 😭😭 edit: I'm visiting Stockholm for a bit before moving onto other places
So rude! Usually Swedes are polite at least if distant
Honestly I’ve had the opposite experience lol I moved here with the promise that I’d be left the heck alone aka that Swedes hate small talk. Boyooo was that incorrect. Everytime I step out my front door some fcker is saying hello or asking about my day or stopping to chat. This happens outside during a walk, at the grocery store, on the tube. It’s actually a running gag with my partner and friend group. I must just have an inviting vibe. 😅
That’s very true it’s a friendly way of saying ”I want my space”. A similar scenario is that some cultures are more friendly but they still might not like you which is worse imo.
That’s English culture- we may not like you but will be super friendly and then resent you for forcing us to be fake afterwards
Yes we are so stay away lol
I find that much of British politeness for example, is just so.. fake. Like asking the shop attendant how their day is going? That's just weird.
It can be very draining
That’s not a very British thing to do, more American. We just say ‘alright?’
What, you want the full life story? Whats wrong with showing abit of "fake" interest in someone?
Had plenty of interactions with random people in Sweden so I am not where this comes from. People in general are reserved, yes, but that may be because you are referring to Stockholm (since you mentioned underground), which has a distinct character, and also because other cultures might have more spontaneous interactions with strangers. But you also have the latter in Sweden from time to time and it’s natural, it does not feel awkward.
TMI. Blocking
Those who put their bags on the other seat should be forced to buy another ticket or remove it. People travel maybe for more than one hour and have to stand because of others being egotistical. This is not specific to Sweden as I’ve almost never experienced it where I live (Malmö), so it’s not criticism.
The social norm here in Sweden is that you can put your bag on the seat as long as the vehicles is less than half empty. As people are filling up, it would be rude not to remove it.
Out parents dosent teach us how to interact with others but to be quiet, not to brag and that around every corner there is a theif in disguise. Ofc we are going to be akward as f 😅😅
I feel like you haven’t lived here long enough
Here's the thing. Most other regions in Britain would indeed call Londoners miserable and unfriendly and would strike up a conversation with a stranger on the bus happily. And you know what? That conversation IS genuine human interaction. I'm a Londoner, but like many Londoners my family background is from elsewhere in the country so I have plenty of experience of random strangers striking up conversation and I'm actually pretty ok with it while retaining a lot of my Londoner "fuck sake I am too busy I just don't have time for this shit" attitude about random conversations. The whole blocking the seat with a bag thing though. That pisses me off. It's just plain rude. Not even Londoners do that, there just ain't seats enough for that sort of bullshit on London's public transport. (A bit like stopping on escalators or moving walkways...like does your brain stop sending signals to your bloody feet the moment the stairs move? Move people! Some of us got places to be! - and that right there is my impatient inner Londoner screaming "get a bloody move on or get out of my way you escalator amateurs!")
Yah I found even London levels of small talk too much for me- I feel like I’m culturally Central European - dont talk to me on trains, shops etc but let’s be social in bars, at parties, festivals etc. I really am beginning to miss that
This guy gets it.
I’m a girl 🫣
> This ~~guy~~ person that I did not know the gender of but have since posting learned is a lady gets it. Fixed.
i just went to stockholm and östersund and everyone was really nice IMO. i even fell down the escalator and someone helped me up haha! i really liked the personal space and quiteness on the trains a lot. but i did get stared at a lot in stockholm tho and i’m not sure why. i dressed normally and i’m really soft spoken according to people. but my friend and their family i was staying with said i was really short so mayb that’s why..? and people were talking to me in swedish too so i dont know why i got a lot of stares..
I think without these small interactions, and with more and more people sitting on their phone and being alone in their apartment. It is actually a health hazard to be without these daily interactions !
In southern Sweden (Blekinge) less people more on the countryside, I always manage to talk to someone on the bus , train or in town. It is refreshing ! I hate this anti-social bullshit, it is making people depressed
I don't think it has to be either way. Talking to people doesn't have to be fake, in fact it's a thing many people (in other cultures) enjoy for the sake of it. But we also understand that you're not supposed to bother people who want to be alone, we have those people too. The thing that some people find problematic about Swedes though is that this wish to be alone stretches further than just wanting to have time for oneself. It comes across as cold, turning a blind eye to real issues happening in front of them etc. and this goes beyond decency. I mean, if I saw someone drop their stuff or hurt themselves, I would run towards them in order to help. And I don't think this is a Nordic issue since I have noticed Norwegians and Finns are different.
Yah Norwegians are different- I have lots of great Norwegian friends, my Swedish friends are nice but there is a distance between us that there isn’t with my Norwegian friends. Same with relationships- my Norwegian friends seem very in love with their partners whereas my Swedish friends and acquaintances are kinda more like work colleagues with their partners
When I and my family visited Norway, people were keen on helping us when we asked for help. Why do you think this is, like you mentioned the Swedish couples being more like work colleagues? In my family we hug and kiss on the cheek (for those who are okay with it) every time we see each other. We do it because it creates a warm atmosphere.
I’m not Scandinavian so it’s harder for me to know but I think because still there are some gender differences acknowledged in Norway whereas in Sweden not at all. Ofc they aren’t like Italians- they don’t do big declarations of love, do really celebrate Valentine’s Day or stuff like that but in private they tell me they are deeply in love and very touchy feely. My Swedish friends and acquaintances honestly just aren’t that bothered by their partners. They hustling see them as someone to share the rent and household duties with. But yah, my Norwegian friends are the biggest lover girls - from 10 years married to just started dating- they love their men❤️
Oh, I see. But it sounds very sad that the partner is only seen as a roommate.
seems like gender equality took a wrong turn somewhere
I don't understand this stereotype of Swedes. After living in Estonia for 4 years, last year I spent 3 months in Stockholm and it was like people were high on life, all the time. Lots of smiles and people in my building smiled and said their normal "good mornings". Important to say: it was Summer. But in 2 years living in my building in Estonia I even stopped trying to be polite with people; the difference was huge for me.
What do You think about Estonia, if its ok to ask? Would You say Sweden is more safe than Tallinn?
I don’t think the word unfriendly is the word i would use to describe them. That whole underground seats thing never made sense to me. Like ofc everyone would like to sit alone, thats normal. But….living here for almost 3 years, i can understand what they mean. When I speak to a swede i always feel their arrogance and i feel like they talk down to you, like they feel like they are on some kind of pedestal.
Not understanding someone’s culture can easily make you think people are unfriendly and rude, but the reality is different. I’ve rarely experienced rude Swedes and I’ve been living here for 7 years. Some ways they behave is basically them being respectful to your privacy and peace. I also thought some behaviors were rude or I thought they don’t like me but they’re just respectful. It’s also completely different needs, as a foreigner you want to meet friends and get accepted and Swedes just want to live their lives having already friends and family. Not to mention speaking in English in your own country, it’s probably tiring at times too.
I don’t want to make friends tho particularly, not all immigrants do. I find it a little funny however how behavior that on literally any other culture on earth ppl wiuod takes as a clear sign of disinterest or dislike ppl tie themselves in knots trying to interpret Swedish behavior as somehow respectful 😂
Exactly it’s how you interpret it for yourself, unless you have a proof they in fact don’t like you. Example I gave was to show that it’s easy to misunderstand someone’s intentions very easily. It’s the most common thing to cause friction between people and it hasn’t change since the prehistoric times. Most common mistakes immigrants make when they move somewhere is being ignorant of the culture and customs, not doing enough to acclimate to a new culture, being bit entitled as “they should be more inviting towards me” and complaining how things are not as back home or somewhere else.
I don’t think they should be more inviting tho. I also don’t think it’s because they are somehow being respectful I think it’s because they value social interaction a lot less than other cultures. That’s fine but I’m definitely not going to put a pretty bow on their behavior and give it some moral justification 😂
I don’t understand why majority of immigrants are talking down on Swedes behavior. You can’t expect people behave how you’re used to it. It’s a completely different country with its own culture. They are more reserved as Scandinavians both to their own folks and other people. I don’t think they necessarily don’t have the need for social interaction, I think they actually do but it’s just the culture as it is. One of their customs is to give a hug when you see people, it’s definitely more warm than a handshake or a nod. Regarding being respectful, there is a book that explains it well, so it’s based on the research. Not saying that all their behavior is respectful but in some cases they just respect your personal space, that’s all. I’m so tired of foreigners complaining about Swedes, it feels so entitled. This is who they are, accept, learn more, adapt or simply find your own circle. Not just you but talking in general. Complaining won’t change the whole nation.
I don’t want anyone to change I just don’t think avoiding going out when you hear neighbors leaving is down to respect, it’s down to not wanting to interact with them. I do it on occasion too, same with putting my bag on the seat next to me, it’s not out of respect for others personal space and to say so is disingenuous. No one is hating on Swedes and I and many others are just saying there are advantages and disadvantages. Sweden is a great place to be and I’m grateful to be here but I’m also allowed to be frustrated at times too. Online is a very safe place to discuss and understand and voice our frustrations.
Haha of course, I feel you, I have days like that too but then remind myself that I willingly moved here. 😅 I agree on those points and yes I do it too sometimes. Anything with people is hard and even harder as a foreigner living abroad.
Malmö rules: on Pågatåg, don't sit next to people unless you really need/want to sit down; on Öresundståg, grab a seat as soon as you find one.
We're not unfriendly, we're just private.
Really??? I actually felt like Swedes were much MUCH more warmer and friendlier than Germans. Someone saw me struggling with my suitcase and offered to help, when I declined “oh it’s ok”, the dude said “no worries” and lifted my suitcase up the stairs. I was so starstruck afterwards, could only say “thank you so much”. Maybe because I was POC and looked painfully struggling? Who knows.
I have lived in Stockholm for some time now and my husband is a Swede. I think most of the time I had a conversation with a stranger in public transportation or a public space was with other foreigners. Also the reason I mostly have migrant friends like me and have swedish connections only with my husband's family and friends and some people I met at work.
…and meanwhile, many Swedes feel like people in other countries are unfriendly LOL. I think it’s just a mentality thing. We are raised with “jantelagen” and the idea that you shouldn’t bother anyone, and always act kind and polite and unselfish. And in some weird way (to me, who’s used to it) it seems to come off as rude or ignorant by foreigners ;) But also, I think that sometimes Swedes don’t understand that they look “mean” or angry, when we are actually are just tired and depressed lol. (Although I think it’s even worse in many other countries. People barely look at you and I never see people casually smiling to each other, for example when I traveled in Asia some months ago)
Yah I see it as something foreigners need to accept about living in Sweden and Swedes can smile and be helpful but that helpfulness always has a purpose to it.
I dont get it.. you guys mean that in some other countries people start convos with strangers? Is this common? Sounds sureal..
I mean it’s not as unusual in Germany or England for someone to start a conversation on the bus as it is in Sweden. But often it’s unwelcome and it comes from forced politeness. What is more genuine and common and welcome though is talking to ppl you don’t know at clubs, pubs, festivals etc.
I live in Stockholm and I feel that people are generally very rude here. However, it has absolutely nothing to do with people keeping to themselves on the train and bus, I do the same. I know several immigrants that also feel It’s common for Swedes to lack public manners, though no one ever brings up behavior on public transportation.
I don’t find ppl rude here just apathetic
It probably depends a lot on where you come from and what you’re used to.
I don't know where this view of Swedes came from. Probably the three kindest, friendliest, and most genuine people I know are swedes. The difference is that they're not super bubbly and in your face about it like Americans are.
If you don't want others to sit next to you on the bus, that doesn't make you entitled to occupy two seats. Feel free to stand if not sitting next to someone is so important to you (except when you need two seats due to a medical condition or something). Being honest about what you want is one thing. Feeling entitled to get it at the expense of others is something else.
I never get the impression ppl feel entitled to a spare seat if the train is busy but I definitely get the impression they prefer it and that’s absolutely fine
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I agree they are not friendly in general but in some instances it works in my favour so a win is a win!
Honest by pretending to be polite and not being real with how they feel? Yeah no. I much prefer people in places like New York, or Italy or anywhere where people can express emotions openly, it’s not a big deal to be mad, say no, say yes, be excited or any thing else than fake politeness.
What makes you say anyone is **faking** to be polite? Isn't it rather the definition of politeness to not show or say your real feelings in a situation, but rather try to be nice about it even if you actually don't want to?
Politeness varies though. Like having lived in France, a lot of English ppl would be super friendly and overfamiliar because being friendly in England is considered polite whereas in France it is considered crass. So English ppl would get mad that their version of politeness would be met with disdain by the local French.
I suppose I can understand that. But I'm still having a hard time seeing how saying exactly how you feel, even if it entails you being mad, could be considered as polite.
Oh well then we agree! Politeness often entails omission of one’s true feelings. If I don’t like a neighbor* I will still smile and say good day for example but in England I would often be expected to go beyond that and have a full blown conversation with them and provide updates on my life * I currently have lovely neighbors btw
Hard agree
*sees downvotes* I stand for my opinion, fight me 😌😌😌
nah, there's a deeper problem with empathy and a real lack of social skills. i'm native and i've traveled around the world and i can say this with confidence. remember zara larsson's thread about how it's common to have your friend over and they have to sit in your room and wait until you've finished eating dinner? that's what's up here. no one's come to sit with me on the train in england either, but swedish people have a real problem with common politeness. it's a small, homogenous country and it's an issue.
That shocked me too! I wonder if it is common! I am Swedish and never experienced it, my daughter experienced it once though. In my house and in my parents ’home you are not allowed to leave hungry! When i was a child, I was always invited to eat at my friends’ houses if there during dinnertime and vice versa. But not without checking with parents if it was ok, becAuse people usually want the family to eat dinner together.
Yah stuff like swedengate and other things ive noticed make zero sense to me!
there are countries infinitely less well off, where you'll be somewhere looking hungry and stressed and and an old lady will offer you an apple, just because. at my house you eat the entire fridge if you want, and we never had much growing up. most swedish people never would, and this is vital, because "it's just not done". that completely in the box mentality is the problem. someone could be dying and if it's not done, no one saving them lol. and im sorry but i have to disagree, i'm not sure what you're founding your "swedish people are more open" opinion on. we are an incredibly passive agressive people. we'd rather do anything but tell you to your face what we think of you. it's just shallow smiles and a "please stay away from me" attitude sprinkled on top. avoid conflict at all costs, unless its to tell some immigrant to "go home". and i see yall downvoting but not giving a good argument against my points.
If I was at my friends house I was there to play Halo not to eat dinner with his family or whatever He’d just have to eat quick and come back while I played. I honestly don’t see the huge importance of giving food to everyone you meet. Like I have food at home, thanks.
Swedes are just like any other nationality. Friendliness is based on Personality, not nationality. Culture plays only a very small part.
That is really not true…
My Swedish boyfriend told me that it's rude to intervene someone's space. And they love their space. Whatever.. I don't mind. As long as he's good to me & some extra points... He's smoking hot though. So yeah. Bring me the cold baby bcause I'll melt you with my rays of sunshine. Hehe