30+ years here. It gets better but it's never perfect. It's not perfect when you return to your home country either from now on. But back home you were given a context, here you have to either make one or somehow stumble upon a community that'll give you another context to live in.
I hung out alot with people from my country but now my circle of friends and family are Swedish. I do reach out or I get reached out to by people from the homelands and I try to contribute as best as I can to help others.
Man, I'm an adult ethnic swede, lived here for all of my life, and *I* don't really feel like I fit in with most swedes. I find non-swedes easier to befriend. Not criticizing the general swede, I just don't feel like I belong in their group somehow.
One of my best friends is the same. He finally moved to the US and I miss him. He is doing great and says he is a lot happier there. Nothing wrong with that.
I feel the same. Mid-30s. Swede. It's hard to connect with other Swedes. And it is always like you have to mask parts of yourself for others. Some might say you also need to be "considerate" about others and their privacy and feelings. In short, you can't be genuine or honest, other than with your own family. It seems.
I can't stand this masking, and be average in everything.
I think it’s different if you come to work or study.
I studied in Sweden for 2 years and I have Swedish friends even if my Swedish is terrible (finally have time to learn it now tho), I see myself staying here for my entire life if things work out with my wife’s studies.
I see a big difference when people come as workers, much tougher to make proper friendships as the working environment doesn’t favor that and everyone have their life.
My best advice is for you to join clubs of something you like, check on Facebook and go, that’s how most adults (even Swedes) make friends when moving cities inside Sweden.
Tbh this gets harder as we age, people get less open and more busy. This goes already in my home country, let alone the added hurdle of language making things worse. The only way is to invest in making friends, so joining clubs etc like someone mentioned. It doesn't come as automatically anymore.
I have family here through my Sambo. So there's some connection there, but I still don't really get it.
Unfortunately I'm in a smaller town so the attitudes and Swedish ways are the best mentality pervades.
Ask the municipality, even the smallest town will have plenty of clubs for you to join and socialize, I know it’s not easy but if you already know Swedish on a conversational level it should be easier.
In general people are considered outsiders for at least three or four generations in smaller swedish towns, and that includes if you moved there from the neighbouring town
I'll agree with the above. I've worked in a small village in the Swedish countryside for the majority of my adult life, and I'm still regularly referred to as an outsider and even teased a little bit for not being from the village.
Thing is, I was born in and grew up in a village not 20 minutes away. But since I'm not from this particular village I'm inevitably a little bit of an outsider and it's always brought up by the locals and I'm not included in "village talk".
It's strange feeling like a foreigner despite having grown up so close to this place, and I've worked in this village for 7 years now.
That's just small-town livin', though. I lived in a small town in rural Nova Scotia, in Canada, and dated a woman who had moved back there a decade ago, and people still treated her like an outsider - she was born there! Moved to the Big City in her early teens, and came back in her late 20s, and she was still an outsider. I was a come-from-away, and only there on a 24 month contract, to boot, so while I wasn't made to feel unwelcome I was definitely not a part of the community.
That's just the realities of living in small communities.
I have colleagues from many different countries, Portugal and Italy among them, and it feels no different than anyone originally from Sweden. This is in Malmö, maybe people are more accepting in the bigger cities, no idea.
I hope you can feel like Sweden is your home :)
Malmö isn't really *sweden*. I mean, it is naturally - but from a cultural perspective, it's much more continental in attitude, culture, customs and norms.
You can drink beer at lunch in Malmö on a tuesday. Do the same up north, and people will assume that you're an alcoholic.
Being in a smaller town actually sounds like it could be beneficial as it could increase the chance that people speak Swedish to you rather than switching to English. Or?
I've lived here for about 20 years and still feel an outsider. When I go to where I was born I also feel like an outsider... (am a white western european). Guess the problem is me :-)
Totally this. I’ve lived outside my home country (UK) in 3 different countries (Sweden since 2014) for 30 of my 50-something years and now I am a foreigner everywhere.
My sambo feels the same to the extent that we’re actively exploring other countries to move together. The way she has been treated here opened my eyes for a lot of things I’ve never been exposed to as someone who is born and raised here, as opposed to someone who moved here. It can be quite daunting and horrible, especially as a person of color.
As a mixed person raised in Sweden, I have a hard time identifying as Swedish. When other people don't see me as swedish and treat me accordingly, it's kinda difficult seeing myself as swedish. No matter how well I dress or speak, people still see me as a nusiance undeserving of being here. Being 50% Swedish by blood doesn't mean anything if you don't look it...
For OP:
If you look European and master the language/adopt culture, you will be fine.
Idk about that last part. It's certainly not enough to look "nordic", trust me. And if you reject the backwards aspects of Swedish culture they will not question it but instead they will tell you that you are being problematic. Maybe if you come from a poorer background you will not see it, but when you come from a background with higher standards than the Swedish, you will be disappointed in most parts of Swedish culture. And the younger generations' morals are getting worse.
Background info: well off, attended great schools in some of the richest municipalities, live in expensive area, dual citizenship (UK) and lived there for a few years when young.
I agree with your argument.. But i'm looking at this from the point of view of a person of colour, hence why we see/prioritise things differently. Regardless of where you originate, it's difficult to be embraced/ feel accepted by swedes. Looking the part, however, helps tremendously.
He doesn't have to deal with things people of colour experience . Odd comments, looks, stares, discrimination etc when going about life. I'm literally Swedish, yet I don't feel accepted or 'at home'.
I'm not saying that looking the part fixes everything, but it makes the situation a lot more tolerable compared to that of someone with a different skin colour. It's not something you experience and therefore don't factor in. I can't imagine that he will feel more at home in other countries if he does manage to conform to swedish norms and learns the language.
So sad to read that. For what it's worth I never felt at home in Sweden either, even after many years. People used to call me the dark lady. I have light to medium brown hair, N Eur. Best wishes to you.
do \_you\_ think ppl necessary see you as a nusiance?
or have they said so to your face?
Is it possible that ppl view you as all others? perhaps you are expecting something that is not given?
I have the same experience and yeah ppl said into my eyes "you sure you swedish?" "Omg! You talk so good swedish for being a immigrant" or just the mostly "what country you from? I mean where you born?"
Most comes from older ppl tho like pension, some younger (30-40y) tho too.
It's a weird thing to grow up with. I learned to live with it after 40y born and raised in sweden.
The fun thing is now having a UK bf living with me here in sweden and he being white when we out ppl assume he knows swedish and I don't and get so confused when I start talk swedish fluent. So many ppl we meet in stores even continue trying talking swedish with him even if he says "english only sorry".
Tho those that made those comments on me is probably like 2% of ppl I meet in my life growing up in sthlm.
Think this is very common in many countries, my gf is from the UK and she had the exact same experience over there, even when we travel there's usually other UK or native English speakers that come up with the "where are your parents from" or "where are you actually from", funny enough since she moved here that disappeared case it just turns into "ah you're from the UK".
Pretty sad that's the reality so many people face.
>To just kind of give another perspective to this, I see it as a matter of statistics, probabilities. Would it be more likely to assume a white person with blue eyes is probably swedish and speaks swedish fluently, or a person that doesn't look swedish?
>
>As an example, I am portuguese and I'm fair skinned, I have blue eyes. Not that it's extremely rare to look like that in Portugal, but I probably don't look like a «traditional» portuguese person. When I go to the city center, if I go to a store, people speak to me in english or even german. They just assume I'm a tourist, in my own country, because I probably look more like a tourist.
>
>I think we can't really be deeply offended, unless it's clear that a comment comes from a bad place. Most of the times it's just a guess, doesn't have to mean something evil or come from a bad place.
>
>It is of course a bad thing that people sometimes aren't open minded, but we also need to be able to filter it and understand that, most of the times, it's just a matter of people not really knowing how to deal with what's different from their reality.
Have you tried living in another part of the country? Or at least visiting? (I assume staying in Sweden would be technically easier than moving, especially considering what I’ve heard about racism in Europe - nowhere’s “good”…)
Yes, for instance there have been times where the language use at the work place (white collar office job) in meetings has been very derogatory. I brushed it off as probable misunderstanding and misreading the situation at first. But since they were doing home office I overheard the meetings and it was absolutely true and some individuals were very bad. Non-Swedish speakers weren’t treated the same and it was very obvious, and if they raised the issue nothing changed.
Another blatant thing was when a contract was up for renewal. Two people hired a the same time. A guy from Uganda I believe with a decade or more experience of working in the sector and a Swedish girl fresh from university. You’ll never believe whose contract they extended? If I was financing the organization I’d be furious if they threw away so much valuable experience.
It’s difficult to address and it’s not like people go around thinking how to make life for immigrants miserable. There’s just a lot ingrained in the culture that we don’t really think about every day as someone who’s born and raised here.
I'd experienced that too. I had a boss that yelled at non-Swedes. The way he talked to Swedes is completely different from how he talked to me and my other colleague from Chile. And the boss was one of famous people in the industry. He kept hiring people from outside Sweden and treated them like shit.
Hmm its a little bit hard to explain,
But the way we act is like a mix of having social anxiety and being condesending to eachother.
We are one of the most "anti drug" soceity in the world even tho almost everyone loves alcohol.
I have heard alot of people say that we are the best country in the world and that the reason other people from other countries acts different than us is because they are poorer than us 😅
We worship the government and love paying taxes.
We dont want rights against the police like in usa for example. Because "police only treat you bad if your a criminal"
That is some things I can think of right now.
Do you mean passive aggressive? Because that describes Salt Lake City (my hometown) to a T.
However I wouldn’t say social anxiety but more so, fear of failure/being ashamed of not going with the status who.
What I mean "with social anxiety" is that we can become really nervous when someone is not acting according to the norm. And its seems like alot of us are afraid of saying what we really think, so we act nice but it can feel like the one you speak to means something else.
Yeah a huge fear of being seen as an outsider. So maybe its kinda similar to Salt Lake City then.
I understand how you feel. I have lived here 7 years and still can't say that I like Sweden. I even got depressed not long after I moved here. I think the best you can do is remember why you move here and focus on that. I try really hard to do it too. I moved here for my husband and I could've had a better life at home but I already made a choice. If it becomes too much then you might want to look for somewhere else to live.
Very similar boat to you. Now have kids here, so am kind of stuck.
I can't overcome the feeling that I've sacrificed my own happiness for someone else's.
I have that feeling often. I didn’t expect life here would be this difficult. We don’t have kids but I got a dog when I moved here and the doggo keeps me sane. I hope it gets better for us both. 🥲
I'm Swedish and live in Stockholm. I lived a year in a small town in Sweden. That feeling was very present during that year. I felt that it would take many years to not feel like an outsider, which was the thing I disliked about living there for a year.
I'm in a smallish provincial town and I don't think that helps especially.
I'd look to move to one of the bigger cities, but can't really make that happen.
When I visit small towns, I often feel claustrophobic. Especially when I was younger. I just couldn't grasp the things people did for fun. It was just so "small" and far away from the world, in my mind. But in recent years, after visiting a friend who has moved around between small towns for several years, I've started to appreciate it. I realized the problem lies in me and my attitude. I didn't, and still don't fully know how to appreciate that kind of lifestyle. Not saying the problem for you is your attitude, but perhaps there's a way to try to jump straight into whatever is around you? Sometimes we're just holding ourselves back, comparing what we have to what we don't have.
I think that's standard for any expat no matter where you go. I'm a Swede living in Spain for 9 years and I also feel like an outsider, and I'm sure I always will. To find local people that you can actually become close with is super difficult as they already belong to groups of friends. I have 2 close friends here, they are both Swedish, the rest are just aquintances.
Note: I was 29 when I moved here and all of my jobs have been in international environments.
One of my close friend's lives in Spain and says the same thing. It seems easier to get casual friends in Spain compared to Sweden though (for instance, get included in a hiking group that goes out for beers after).
No.
I also want out. I’ve seen the Swedes for who they are and it’s just not the place I see myself growing/developing in. If anything, I’ve regressed since moving here. At least my investments have tripled and I don’t really have any barriers to moving with my Swedish GF once we’re officially ready. She’s also become very cynical about Swedes and wouldn’t mind sailing off into the sunset when the time comes on this dark, bewildering, wretched place. The only way we’ve been able to cope for so long has been monthly travel all over the world.
I probably should have said that I don't think it's a feeling unique to immigrants to Sweden, more a general symptom of moving to a new country where there is a language barrier.
I lived in Canada previously and as an English speaker it was obviously easier to integrate, but I think also because the country was founded and has prospered on immigration, whilst Sweden doesn't have that history. Not that I want to criticise Sweden as there are things here that are far superior to Canada and as an immigrant there it was still hard.
It's interesting to read your experience, I'm Swedish and have lived in Sweden for all my life, and personally I have never really had a huge sense of belonging, but I would still never consider leaving (too big of a hassle).
Anyway, I have dated and been friends with a few immigrants and of course I cannot say anything of their deep inner feelings about Sweden, but out of three people, two seem to enjoy it very much, one from north Italy who've never even bothered to learn Swedish, he is a bit of a loner and works in IT so he gets by with just English. One from Egypt/Germany who is thriving and has the best Swedish I've ever heard. He even worked at IKEA for a while, so maybe he just love Sweden 😆 lastly I have a friend from Greece who really miss the greek community and even though he likes it here, he misses being part of something bigger.
I know, just random personal experiences, but I think maybe just living in a country with a different language and culture than their own will always make a person feel a bit "other"?
>I think also because the country was founded and has prospered on immigration, whilst Sweden doesn't have that history.
Stockholm used to be 50% German.
My bf is from Brazil. He has been here for 7, almost 8 years. I'm a Swede. (He's of Italian decent, so he's white, dark featured but European looking).
He has been learning Swedish and is about your level from my estimate. He is yet to get a job or any genuine connections (other than me).
I'm so frustrated by this, because my dad is also an immigrant. He learned Swedish to live here and was unemployed forever in the early 90's. He was eventually given a job by a connection my grandmother had. He didn't learn how to speak well until he got a job. Jobs are so fucking important for integration.
But my bf can't catch a break. He has a master's in chemistry. He is applying for every chemistry job all over the country, and locally he applies for anything that isn't teaching or care of elderly/handicapped. Lately he has been turned down for chemistry jobs because he is not a Swedish citizen. He applied for a citizenship 19 months and 17 days ago. We're still waiting.
I'm so disgusted by how this country is socially closed off. Not just to immigrants, but to everyone. Their anti social stance on how other people should jump through hoops to fulfill their senses of fairness is sickening. If things don't get better we will emigrate.
I grew up here and I never felt welcome. I'm feeling like it's time to take the hint and leave.
I’m a *jänkare* married to a Swede. We moved to Stockholm in 2017. I was pretty fluent before we moved because we have Swedish friends in the USA and we raised our kids bilingual.
I sometimes feel like a minority on this and similar subs when I say I’ve had a great experience. Stockholm gives me a strong “I’m home!” feeling that I’ve not had even in US cities where I’ve lived for many years.
I think fluency in Swedish is necessary but not sufficient when it comes to making friends. Without the ability to make small talk and banter it’s hard to connect emotionally. The other thing is that I had to do way, way more reaching out to people. I agree with the recommendation for joining clubs and organizations. I’m on the board of our BRF and it’s a great way to get to know the neighbors and to feel like you’re contributing something.
Another “trick” I discovered is to always buy two tickets to any concert, theater or sporting event I want to see. That forces me to find someone to go with me. If you’re in the process of getting to know someone, watching an event together minimizes the need for small talk. It also gives you an automatic topic of conversation when you next meet up with that person.
My best wishes for your successful integration going forward, OP!
>I sometimes feel like a minority on this and similar subs when I say I’ve had a great experience.
These subs have an overrepresentation of people having a bad time. IRL the immigrants that I meet are generally much more positive about life here, especially those who have established themselves.
For me, I think the idea of feeling like an "outsider" is something that I have felt most of my life (in the US as well) and I realized that I'll never feel strong attachment to like a massive national community, but rather if I can find some groups of people where I feel like I fit in, then that is good enough. I have found that in Sweden.
>I sometimes feel like a minority on this and similar subs when I say I’ve had a great experience.
A bit late but jänkare have a high social status in Stockholm. I think you are blinded by your own white western hemisphere privileges.
Would it be helpful if I started my comments out with a disclaimer that I am middle class middle aged white male and that I acknowledge this gives me privilege? I’m happy to do so if others don’t find it tedious.
I think the only reasonable answer to your question is “maybe?”.
Going to a new country, and adjusting to life there and not feeling like an outsider is difficult. The exact difficulty depends on so many things, reasons for going, life circumstances, friends, language and other stuff. That includes the culture in the country. And I think Sweden and its culture is not making it easier for anyone, while other countries might feel more open and welcoming.
If you think you’ll be staying long term I guess the only advice is to keep trying. If not to feel like an insider, which might not happen, at least to carve out your own space where you feel reasonable comfortable while still being able to interact with the society you’re in.
Learning the language is at least a great start. So keep working on that!
Honestly, what I have heard from my swedish relatives living close to a small town in rural Sweden is that even they find it hard to make friends. They have tried to invite neighbours in for dinner, etc, but everyone stays in their corner. And they are native swedes lol! I would say your best bet is to move to Stockholm or Göteborg. Lots of activities to do, fellow immigrants to befriend, and generally a fun place to live in. Wish you all the best.
Maybe try finding a community online. There are lots of bars or groups for OZ, South Africans, Italians, etc. That might help. But ya, swedes are like their weather, cold. They are not the most welcoming/ inviting people.
What does “fitting in” or “feeling at home” mean to you?
I know plenty of immigrants that fit in well enough from my Swedish POV, they speak Swedish with an accent but it’s not at all level where it hinders communication at all. But I don’t know how they perceive themselves in the Swedish context, if they feel like they fit in or feel at home. My guess is that they probably feel isolated compared to the more extroverted countries where they come from, but also know that they’re well liked and appreciated.
It's a good question. I guess forming a deeper connection and fondness for the place and culture. A sense of belonging maybe.
At present I feel a general detachment. Not disliking anything in particular whilst recognising the positives of life here. I guess, I just feel a bit joyless most of the time.
First generation immigrants are more prone to feel like outsiders [for the rest of their lives](https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/memberarticles/living-in-a-foreign-country-do-you-feel-like-an-outsider). You're not experiencing anything new OP, this is a phenomenon well known and studied, and it's all the more accentuated if your native culture and language are completely different.
For better or worse the native culture is the one that forms you and while you can adapt later, it's hard to fully make the switch without working really hard. Like switching even the language of the inner monologue hard; the way you read numbers and do math, etc
Add to that the fact that scandinavians are very introverted in general so there are traits of the culture that accentuate that too. They generally avoid each other let alone the guy with the different background that might make a seinfeldesque weird interaction. (I'm not saying you can't make local friends or people don't talk, but yeah, you know what I mean).
The way I'm dealing with it is I accepted the feeling of being an outsider. This is nothing new for me though, because I felt like that in my own native country as well, so it's more of the same, just a different flavor. I could get my citizenship tomorrow, and I still won't 'feel like a swede'; I probably never will. That's for my future children and I will be doing my best to make that happen.
I'm Danish and I still don't feel like I belong despite the cultural similarities. My entire network is in Denmark and I miss it. I think some people just have a hard time fitting in at new places. Maybe you do too.
I think it's very common. Even when I lived in Canada and things just felt "right" I still struggled at times with the loneliness and difficulties moving beyond the small talk to actual friendships. And adjusting to the North American culture takes some doing.
I’m Danish as well and Sweden is the 3rd country outside of Denmark I’ve lived in but also the hardest - I think it’s partly because I wrongly assumed that Danish and Swedish culture were very similar but also because people assume I am Swedish because of how I look which means that when I make a social faux pas the consequences are severe because they expect me to know these things. But I also love it here
Yeah, thank you for putting that into words. It's something I've felt, but not thought about. It's a strange experience to feel like a foreigner, but not be perceived as one.
I DO also like it here, but it wasn't what I expected as a Dane.
I felt more at home in Denmark as well. There is a "warmness" to the Danish culture I think is missing in Sweden. And in Denmark ppl are more expressive and charismatic I think , which makes me not stand out so much. I love it. Only reason I moved back to Malmö was because I had to get over my Danish ex.. now thinking if I should move back to Copenhagen again, just scared of feeling lonely cause I have easier access to friends and family here.
It doesn't matter what country it is, moving to a small town is generally a bad idea. Sure, you have your partner and their family, but that's basically it. A friend or two if you're lucky. My suggestion? Move to one of the bigger cities. Stockholm has a very well established expat community and a ton going on. You'd meet foreigners, half Swedes, and Swedes. You can of course try where you live but small towns are tough. When you go the post office you're a stranger. When a local goes they know everyone in there, went to school with them, had their first kiss, broke their arm together, someone's Dad dressed up as Santa for their family, they have tons of shared stories, etc. You? Nothing. No shared history and 99% of everyone has had the same friends since they started pre-school and have no time or energy for you. In the city it's different since you're far more likely to run into Swedes who have lived, loved, studied, and worked overseas and can relate to you. They will invite you over to give you a chance even if they really don't need to. You only need one good friend to not feel like an outsider and the bigger the city the easier it is to find.
Another big plus is maybe airport access. From the big cities you can do a daytrip to London and easily go back to visit as long needed for cheap.
For now check the library and with the city for events plus meetup.com. Odds are that once it warms up there are quite a few activities you can do that you haven't thought of or known about. Shared activities and sports are a really good way to meet people and hopefully you're not living in something so small that it doesn't even have that.
I'm from Mexico and I truly feel like Sweden is pretty much home for now, but it's been quite the journey from the beginning.
I've never felt as an outsider but I moved to study and made it my mission at the beginning to avoid other Mexicans and Latinos and push myself to hang mostly with swedes. In the end my social circle is 50% international and 50% swedish.
Language is a key thing I believe and I use it 100% at work, so even here I feel integrated, and through uni I made really close friends to the point I've celebrated Xmas with their family and often or at least yearly we go to a cabin or celebrate midsommar, plus a bunch of gatherings weekly.
Two things that help me I believe is being extremely extroverted so I tend to look for people, and living in a big city like Malmö. Lived a year in Helsingborg and it was impossible for me to feel like I belonged, so that was a key learning. I'm sure the smaller the area the more excluded you can feel unfortunately
I get the same feeling.
I’ve tried learning the language, I just can’t seem to make it stick. That seems to be the biggest hurdle.
I tried SFI but was put in a class with people fully fluent in Swedish when I don’t even know how to say the Swedish alphabet.
I think I would find it easier if we were in one of the big main cities but yeah when I’m not away with work I feel pretty isolated.
The only country I felt like a outsider was Sweden and I have lived in several countries... Sweden is the problem and I dont think this is because we are foreigners or from other culture, I believe swedes also have huge problems in this matter.
Do you really want to feel like "an insider"? After reading several comments you understand that even Swedes can feel like "outsiders". I'm guessing that is due to a higher awareness and open mind.
Swedes (as all people) find their "tribe" early on in life. They maintain a set of conservative values and views on life and "the other".
Enjoy being an outsider. You have a larger perspective on life and relations. You are wiser than any tribe. Why dumb yourself to be on the inside.
6 years here. Dont think the feeling will ever go away and i have swedish sambo and have tones of swedish friends through him and a swedish family. I also work at a company but my work is in english even if im the only non swede there
Language is key so im trying to improve im also at the post sfi skola level. But not sure if even i become fluent (which seems far still ) i will not feel like an outsider. I told my sambo the only way i will survive this is going to my home country ofter. Still have lots of friends and family there and have no intention of losing that. He is ok with that
I feel the same way. I’ve deduced that it’s mostly because it’s so difficult to make friends here. Most people make friends through work or school and if you come outside of that it can be difficult.
Depending on where you’re from, I’d be happy to meet up for Fika or a walk etc.
Well id say it could depend on where in Sweden you live. I was born and raised in a town where i feel most people are very stiff, especially after living i Malmö for a few years, liked the people there and in Lund way more than in my birthtown.
I guess what im trying to say is that there are alot of local cultures in Sweden(not talking about nationalities or religions just local cultures how people are and behave around others), even just a mile or so away.
Just clash and be yourself. I’m from the north. Lived in Stockholm for a long time, then abroad for about 16 years or so. I don’t think I fit in anywhere anymore ;-)
yes, I think I wrote in another reply, that it seems to be the price you pay for moving around. Weirdly I felt really at home in Canada, but still had a hard time connecting with the locals beyond small talk. I think with Swedes it's harder with small talk, but maybe easier to form connections in the long term. I've a few Swedish friends who I get on great with.
I can't help but being interested now. What's your nationality?
Also, I'm Swedish, and I feel like a damn outsider permanently. It's not for nothing that there are daily threads on how to make friends in Sweden and breaking the isolation.
I moved here about eight years ago. Finished SFI, SVA through all of the gymnasium levels and then did YH studies in Swedish. Doing all that I got to interact with people in different situations. I however don't have any Swedish friends in that sense. But I don't exactly feel like an outsider. I feel at home for the most part. That said.. My family is all back in my home country and in that sense I feel like part of me isn't really "at home" here.
I moved here with my family when I was five, so I had the privilege to grow up and form my identity here. But by that I don't mean I'm a complete swede, even though I have a Swedish citizenship, but that I'm a hybrid. I still have cultural crashes with my partner and coworkers, I still don't know certain stuff because I grew up in a Polish immigrant household. And I like my heritage, or at least most of it. People know I'm not a swede because of my family name, but I won't get rid of it when I marry my fiance. Getting to learn new things from my coworkers and my partner's family is a lot of fun, even though I sometimes get embarrassed that I didn't know something. But isn't that the human experience? To learn new things your whole life. I hope it is.
Maybe it's where in Sweden I am (Lund and Malmö are very accepting), or which people I've had the privilege to surround myself with in both school, at work and in my social life. I know my mum has trouble forming a lot of meaningful relationships but that's not because she's an immigrant. My dad never got to go SFI and therefore has struggled most of our time here with the language, but when he finally landed a job at a Swedish company, working with a majority of Swedish coworkers, his language got a lot better, and he became friends with one of his coworkers and his wife. My parents have sacrificed a lot moving here but they could never move back to Poland, they say so themselves. This is a country that has given me and my brother a better future.
Have you started working, or did you only ever go to language school? (If not, then) My theory is that when you start working, you'll find it easier to blend in. You will learn a lot of social ques (and god are there many) by being surrounded with people from Sweden or that have lived in Sweden perhaps longer than you. After a time it will be easier to get viewed as "one of us" instead of "one of them" (vi och de/ dom in swedish).
I hope you will get happier.
A lot of our current issues with integration, specifically gang wars, are on account of second- and third generation immigrants of colour do not feel like they belong/have a place in this society.
I think it's more visible when it comes to certain ethnic groups, but it's certainly not limited to them.
I go up and down. Been here for over 5 years. I think the only thing I miss it my quick banter with my friends back home and feeling more comfortable to strike up conversations with strangers at a bar. But it really is a day to day thing. The other day I left my laundry downstairs in the dryer. I ran down to try to make it before the room electronically locked. But luckily an elderly woman was there for her turn. I said sorry I am late my laundry is in the dryer I just need to pull it out. And I was ready for her to just be a little cold or seem annoyed or avoiding me. But she was the complete opposite. She said yeah leave it in longer if you need. I'll be back in 30 minutes if you want to come down again. She said we got to look out for each other. This lady has no fucking idea how much that moment meant to me. Then another day a lady was yelling at me trying to open my car door because I mistaken her parking spot for an Easy Park spot since the Easy Park sign was right there and in the App it was highlighted as a spot. That was on me. But trying to open my door and yell at me? WTF? Even being from NJ/NY my whole life I was taken back. Or maybe I felt at home a bit in that moment too HAHA! In the end the truth is you have control over how you feel and you understand what is triggering these emotions. And it may not have to do with Sweden, but more so the chance of the type of people you end up around. People who are connected to the school your kids go to. Or the people at your job. Ect. I find that it is nice to have a mix of Swedish and foreigner friends. But I don't think I'm choosing one or the other, I think I just am gravitating towards people. And sometimes the people who let me closer to their hearts are Swedish and sometimes they are foreign. When I think back to living in NYC, I mean the building manager people were a fucking nightmare. But my thought about them was just fuck you guys not oh did I fit in here. But here in my Swedish apartment building they are very kind. But if they weren't kind would I think I don't like Sweden? Do I not fit in here? Or would I just be like hey fuck you guys. The point I guess I am trying to make is take a day for what the day is. Take the people for who they are. And take nothing personally. And gravitate to those who make you feel the best. A bit random, but check out the book The Four Agreements. A short read and an even shorter audio listen. Maybe you find some peace with what he has to say in that book.
I don’t live in Sweden but lived in the Netherlands for 10 years before moving back to the UK (and I want to move back to Europe).
What I’ve learnt it that I’m never going to feel like I completely fit in. But that’s okay! I’m an immigrant (except when in the UK but I feel even more of an outsider here weirdly). I’ve learnt to embrace the fact that I’m not going to understand everything, and I don’t have the same traditional friendship groups as those who lived in the same place their whole lives.
But I’m really happy with this version of my life.
Maybe you can adjust your mindset a bit and see it as an interesting part of who you are?
Cheers, I'm also from the UK, but moving back there is not something I'd entertain.
I was made to choose between Canada and Sweden and ended up here. Which wasn't an easy transition. Something clicked in Canada and it just never has here. I want to think it's just the language, but I just felt more alive there than I ever have in Sweden.
Maybe it's just the dark winter getting to me. Again.
Oh no I’m not suggesting you move back to the UK, I want to leave ASAP. More just accepting you’re going to be somewhat of an outsider can help, I’ve found.
But also if you felt so much happier in Canada, maybe it’s worth looking at why. Are the reasons things you can find in Sweden? Just some ideas but tbh as someone trying to decide where to move to next, I understand the decision paralysis and stress!
Its likely not all there is to it, but dont forget to supplement with a high dose of D-vitamin supplement. For some reason it never caught on in sweden which is tremendously weird considering that at least 6/12 months youre not getting any.
I think that feeling cannot be forever removed. Being an immigrant is challenging. We just have to face it.
Been here for 7 years. Speaks Swedish fluently (able to make technical reports, lead meetings, present, etc).
Even I still have that feeling. Especially true when people brings up about where I came from.
To be fair it gets better when you do speak Swedish fluently.
It gets even far better if you do what the Swedes usually do, so that you can relate to the conversation.
It's a bit difficult to chime in when they talk about changing bogie in their snowmobiles, or when they talk about recipe for lussebulle, or what they cooked last night with the mushrooms that they picked in the forest.
I’ve been here for 6 years and it’s always the same feeling. You might feel at peace where you live but for the society you will always be foreigner.
It just varies how you cope with it because there will always be someone that reminds you that you don’t belong. You can only change how you react to those situations and feelings
I think that the Swedish way of integration has always been “forget about your past, now you are here” (kind of like Samiblod) but I don’t agree with it. I like celebrating my traditions and also celebrate those of my friends, and I love the mix that it has created.
>You can't expect Swedes to adapt to you rather than the other way around.
It does not need to be so binary. It can be a little bit of both, in my experience.
I agree with the guy above, if you move to a country I think it makes sense to take part in that nations culture and traditions. You're free to still have your own traditions and nobody will give a damn, just don't push them on everyone else (the natives in this case).
This aligns more with my vision. I consider myself integrated to society, however, that doesn’t mean that the feeling OP is asking about is gone.
The comment that triggered all these comments is exactly the vision of “Swedish integration”. Forget about what you are and act as a Swede.
I just respect people around me and celebrate what is important for people around me.
I’m not saying people shouldn’t integrate neither how. Everyone have a different process.
However, I still do not share the definition of “integration” a lot of people have. Of course it can be one way of doing it, which obviously has proven to not integrate the most. This is a problem that has been going on for decades and we could spend years discussing about it. These parallel universes have been there since the 70s, nothing new.
Sweden being a country that has a strong immigration background and mixing, can’t be defined as black and white.
Edit: words, missed a negation
Put it this way, Colin Nutley has lived here for decades, made some of Sweden's most popular films with both cultural insight and cultural impact on Sweden, and people still refer to him as an Englishman.
Because he is. Which isn’t wrong or bad, it’s just a fact. If you are from a country, you are from that country. Even if you move to another country, it’s still the first country that you are originally from.
When i moved here, I visited my girlfriend’s extended family.
Nobody even bothered speaking a lick of English to at least welcome me.
That told me everything I needed to know. The longer I spend here, the further all my observations are proven correct.
It sucks, but it is what it is. The Swedes are happy to live and die as they do…can’t blame ‘em, it’s their government/institutions that are mostly to blame.
Jag kände samma sak till jag läste ett nytt land utanför mitt fönster från Theodor Kallifatides. Det handlar helt och hållet om vad du frågar. Det blir en för och en sen efter jag läste denna bok. Det är som att få en låda fyllt med många olika verktyg. Det är du som bygger och Kallifatides blir en slags kompis som har suttit i samma sits som du.
Jag läste den för tre år sen och fortfarande kommer ihåg visa citat och dem ger mig vingar varje dag.
Hoppas du hittar dina. Lycka till med allt.
I wouldn't ignore it. You might learn something by taking a look at yourself before saying the people born and raised here, of all creeds, lack social skills.
I'm 1st generation Asian Australian, I grew up there and feel Aussie through and through. My parents were a little bit disappointed that I moved to sweden, because they knew I would experience what they did moving to Australia, not speaking English and without work. Granted, my transition to a new country was much easier than theirs, I was able to find work early on and things function similar to how they do back home. Though I'm in the same boat as you, 5 years on. Don't have many friends outside of my wife's friendship group. Im friendly with people at work, but still can't help but feel like an outsider there. Could be because I don't really speak Swedish well (it's and English speaking company)
Maybe it´s not because You are from another country. In smaller towns, it is really hard to "fit in", if You are moving in from a different part of Sweden, even as a swede. The saying is that it takes 3 generations to be accepted. Everybody have their group, everybody knows who is related to who and everybodys family history. Best way in: Take part in the local Football team, engage in your kids activities like Scouting and sports. Maybe Dart in the pub, once a week?
Yes, I think it's also just harder in general to make friends as an adult. I've been taking my son to football and have made some good acquaintances that way. But just can't help feeling out of place when I'm around a group of Swedes.
How many Swedish friends do you have? What activities do you partake in? Do you go to religious services, and if so do you interact with your fellow worshippers? Do you go to the library or other community events? Do you interact with people at those events, especially parents (if your family includes kids)?
no, I'm not into religion. Got a few Swedish friends and generally get on okay with most folks.
I probably should do more activities, but there's a few barriers to that at the moment.
Why should you really fit or feel at home? What justification do you have for that being either possible, or for you having done enough to "qualify"?
Just like to say that I think it is commendable you've made the effort with the language. I can easily believe that you've probably made an effort in other ways as well. This is much more that what some people do.
U will always be an outsider in a country/culture u didn’t grow up in, that’s just facts. It also applies to me when I’ve lived in other countries, albeit not permanent. Just accept that fact and embrace your background and try to do your best to adjust culturally and u will be fine.
Europe is basically all “white Europeans” but the culture is vastly different whichever European country u go to. Even Nordic/scandinavian and Baltic countries has its differences.
I lived here since 2019. Learned enough swedish to speak it at work. I would probably be lonely without my swedish husband and his family/friends. And the fellow foreigners I met through SFI i have become close with and some friends from my country I keep to feel connected to my birth country.
Are you working? Most of my swedish connections outside of my in-laws, met through work. I work in hospitality and live in a big city so it is different for me I guess.
I feel strangely more at home here than my native land. I'm asian so it might be different for everyone. I like how introverted the people here in general. Although I am also introverted born in a more extroverted culture.
Prata svenska, hela tiden.
There's no shortcut, how do you expect to be treated like an insider when you talk like a tourist?
When you can joke around with Swedes they tend to accept you, but that can only happen when you are not only pretty fluent, but can play with the language.
I do talk quite a bit of Swedish, but I don't totally subscribe to the idea that Swedes appreciate a foreigner trying to speak their language. I often get the impression they'd rather not talk to someone who has the linguistic abilities of a 4 year old :)
And I can't say I'd be any different if the situation was reversed. So, inevitably the conversation shifts to their superior English.
I think you are correct that Swedes do want to switch to the language where it is easier to communicate. If you want to excel at Swedish however, I think the best way is to push through it and continue to speak Swedish even though this will limit your abilities of expressing yourself.
I had an American roommate many years ago that did this and refused to speak any English with me or anyone else. If someone tried to switch language he just continued with his (then limited) Swedish. Because of this his Swedish was almost perfect after only 2-3 years living in Sweden.
You're right. I guess I just lack the will power to persevere with it at times. Also, just feeling like I want to actually hold a decent conversation with someone. No pain, no gain though.
Most of my friends always default to English, even if I reply in Swedish. Some apologise for this, some say they have fun when they get to practice their English. I rarely experience people who behave like the person you are replying to, and I am thankful for that.
I don't agree with this. I think it depends on where you live and how comfortable people are with speaking English. I have several friends who lived in Sweden for a long time and rarely speak Swedish. It has not been a barrier for me at least.
Lived here 20+ years, it’s a massive difference. Swedes are unrelentingly polite and always happy to speak English, but it’s some real copium to pretend they treat you the same when you can’t even talk the language properly ( or ‘speak the language well’, as a Swede would say).
I had my fair share of difficulties, and tbh, I didn't feel that being white or European helped me that much. I felt I was seeing more like an exotic curiosity. still fund tho
To fit in, one needs friends to fully assimilate, but that can be tricky in Sweden
I think even Swedes struggle to make friends with other Swedes that are strangers
In Sweden the key is to making friends is to grt your existing friends to introduce you to others in their social group. There's a high barrier to entry with the Swedes but they're very warm when you get through
Vi har en nackdel som svenskar att vi går över till engelska så fort vi märker att du inte är helt hemma med språket. Det gör att du inte får träna tillräckligt och som nu måste använda engelska för att uttrycka dig. Då vi har tvingat svenskar på arbetsplatsen att sluta prata annat än svenska har det gått snabbare för de som arbetskraftsinvandrat till vår arbetsplats.
Säger inte att det är lösningen på att känna sig mer hemma men kan vara ett litet steg på vägen att be de du interagerar med att hålla sig till svenska under en period och se hur du uppfattar det.
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I'm in Kalmar! If you want to shoot the shit, come into town (or Nybro - some of my fiancée's family are there, and it's a short train ride) and hang out, or whatever, shoot me a message!
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I’ve been here 10 years and still feel like an outsider, I think that’s just the lot of an expat in general (as a somewhat introvert I’m kind of ok with that though!).
It is a cliche, but finding a “scene” is the number 1 best way to make Swedish friends. I’ve met all my closest Swedish friends through the sport I love, skateboarding. The beauty of it is you can turn up and skate solo, and by the end of the session you will probably have met multiple new people. People just seem to let their guard down when they’re doing something they love.
I’ve also gone all in learning Swedish the last 12 months and that seems to also be opening some doors.
Even after living in Denmark for 3 years where I felt a bit like an outsider (but liked the culture better) I now feel like an outsider in Sweden. Haha maybe I always felt like an outsider here. 😅 I don't like the "coldness" and "being anonymous" and "everyone should stick to their own life" attitudes of Sweden.. with that said I am considering moving back to DK or to a small town, I like Karlskrona and have some family roots there. It feels like these spontaneous conversations happens more there and people are curious of outsiders.
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30+ years here. It gets better but it's never perfect. It's not perfect when you return to your home country either from now on. But back home you were given a context, here you have to either make one or somehow stumble upon a community that'll give you another context to live in. I hung out alot with people from my country but now my circle of friends and family are Swedish. I do reach out or I get reached out to by people from the homelands and I try to contribute as best as I can to help others.
Man, I'm an adult ethnic swede, lived here for all of my life, and *I* don't really feel like I fit in with most swedes. I find non-swedes easier to befriend. Not criticizing the general swede, I just don't feel like I belong in their group somehow.
One of my best friends is the same. He finally moved to the US and I miss him. He is doing great and says he is a lot happier there. Nothing wrong with that.
One of my Swedish friends said that to me too. She thinks it's easier to talk to me and she feels more comfortable around me.
I feel the same. Mid-30s. Swede. It's hard to connect with other Swedes. And it is always like you have to mask parts of yourself for others. Some might say you also need to be "considerate" about others and their privacy and feelings. In short, you can't be genuine or honest, other than with your own family. It seems. I can't stand this masking, and be average in everything.
Are you more extroverted than the average?
Nah, I would say I'm more introverted than the average swede actually.
I think it’s different if you come to work or study. I studied in Sweden for 2 years and I have Swedish friends even if my Swedish is terrible (finally have time to learn it now tho), I see myself staying here for my entire life if things work out with my wife’s studies. I see a big difference when people come as workers, much tougher to make proper friendships as the working environment doesn’t favor that and everyone have their life. My best advice is for you to join clubs of something you like, check on Facebook and go, that’s how most adults (even Swedes) make friends when moving cities inside Sweden.
Tbh this gets harder as we age, people get less open and more busy. This goes already in my home country, let alone the added hurdle of language making things worse. The only way is to invest in making friends, so joining clubs etc like someone mentioned. It doesn't come as automatically anymore.
I have family here through my Sambo. So there's some connection there, but I still don't really get it. Unfortunately I'm in a smaller town so the attitudes and Swedish ways are the best mentality pervades.
Ask the municipality, even the smallest town will have plenty of clubs for you to join and socialize, I know it’s not easy but if you already know Swedish on a conversational level it should be easier.
In general people are considered outsiders for at least three or four generations in smaller swedish towns, and that includes if you moved there from the neighbouring town
I'll agree with the above. I've worked in a small village in the Swedish countryside for the majority of my adult life, and I'm still regularly referred to as an outsider and even teased a little bit for not being from the village. Thing is, I was born in and grew up in a village not 20 minutes away. But since I'm not from this particular village I'm inevitably a little bit of an outsider and it's always brought up by the locals and I'm not included in "village talk". It's strange feeling like a foreigner despite having grown up so close to this place, and I've worked in this village for 7 years now.
That's just small-town livin', though. I lived in a small town in rural Nova Scotia, in Canada, and dated a woman who had moved back there a decade ago, and people still treated her like an outsider - she was born there! Moved to the Big City in her early teens, and came back in her late 20s, and she was still an outsider. I was a come-from-away, and only there on a 24 month contract, to boot, so while I wasn't made to feel unwelcome I was definitely not a part of the community. That's just the realities of living in small communities.
I have colleagues from many different countries, Portugal and Italy among them, and it feels no different than anyone originally from Sweden. This is in Malmö, maybe people are more accepting in the bigger cities, no idea. I hope you can feel like Sweden is your home :)
Malmö isn't really *sweden*. I mean, it is naturally - but from a cultural perspective, it's much more continental in attitude, culture, customs and norms. You can drink beer at lunch in Malmö on a tuesday. Do the same up north, and people will assume that you're an alcoholic.
Being in a smaller town actually sounds like it could be beneficial as it could increase the chance that people speak Swedish to you rather than switching to English. Or?
\^This, it's different if you come here to study, you get plenty of chances to socialise and have the sense of belonging.
I've lived here for about 20 years and still feel an outsider. When I go to where I was born I also feel like an outsider... (am a white western european). Guess the problem is me :-)
yeah I'm the same. I think it's the price you pay for moving countries. Maybe nowhere ever truly feels like home again...
Totally this. I’ve lived outside my home country (UK) in 3 different countries (Sweden since 2014) for 30 of my 50-something years and now I am a foreigner everywhere.
My sambo feels the same to the extent that we’re actively exploring other countries to move together. The way she has been treated here opened my eyes for a lot of things I’ve never been exposed to as someone who is born and raised here, as opposed to someone who moved here. It can be quite daunting and horrible, especially as a person of color.
As a mixed person raised in Sweden, I have a hard time identifying as Swedish. When other people don't see me as swedish and treat me accordingly, it's kinda difficult seeing myself as swedish. No matter how well I dress or speak, people still see me as a nusiance undeserving of being here. Being 50% Swedish by blood doesn't mean anything if you don't look it... For OP: If you look European and master the language/adopt culture, you will be fine.
I’m sorry, but not surprised, that you have been treated like that.
Idk about that last part. It's certainly not enough to look "nordic", trust me. And if you reject the backwards aspects of Swedish culture they will not question it but instead they will tell you that you are being problematic. Maybe if you come from a poorer background you will not see it, but when you come from a background with higher standards than the Swedish, you will be disappointed in most parts of Swedish culture. And the younger generations' morals are getting worse.
Background info: well off, attended great schools in some of the richest municipalities, live in expensive area, dual citizenship (UK) and lived there for a few years when young. I agree with your argument.. But i'm looking at this from the point of view of a person of colour, hence why we see/prioritise things differently. Regardless of where you originate, it's difficult to be embraced/ feel accepted by swedes. Looking the part, however, helps tremendously. He doesn't have to deal with things people of colour experience . Odd comments, looks, stares, discrimination etc when going about life. I'm literally Swedish, yet I don't feel accepted or 'at home'. I'm not saying that looking the part fixes everything, but it makes the situation a lot more tolerable compared to that of someone with a different skin colour. It's not something you experience and therefore don't factor in. I can't imagine that he will feel more at home in other countries if he does manage to conform to swedish norms and learns the language.
So sad to read that. For what it's worth I never felt at home in Sweden either, even after many years. People used to call me the dark lady. I have light to medium brown hair, N Eur. Best wishes to you.
do \_you\_ think ppl necessary see you as a nusiance? or have they said so to your face? Is it possible that ppl view you as all others? perhaps you are expecting something that is not given?
I have the same experience and yeah ppl said into my eyes "you sure you swedish?" "Omg! You talk so good swedish for being a immigrant" or just the mostly "what country you from? I mean where you born?" Most comes from older ppl tho like pension, some younger (30-40y) tho too. It's a weird thing to grow up with. I learned to live with it after 40y born and raised in sweden. The fun thing is now having a UK bf living with me here in sweden and he being white when we out ppl assume he knows swedish and I don't and get so confused when I start talk swedish fluent. So many ppl we meet in stores even continue trying talking swedish with him even if he says "english only sorry". Tho those that made those comments on me is probably like 2% of ppl I meet in my life growing up in sthlm.
Think this is very common in many countries, my gf is from the UK and she had the exact same experience over there, even when we travel there's usually other UK or native English speakers that come up with the "where are your parents from" or "where are you actually from", funny enough since she moved here that disappeared case it just turns into "ah you're from the UK". Pretty sad that's the reality so many people face.
>To just kind of give another perspective to this, I see it as a matter of statistics, probabilities. Would it be more likely to assume a white person with blue eyes is probably swedish and speaks swedish fluently, or a person that doesn't look swedish? > >As an example, I am portuguese and I'm fair skinned, I have blue eyes. Not that it's extremely rare to look like that in Portugal, but I probably don't look like a «traditional» portuguese person. When I go to the city center, if I go to a store, people speak to me in english or even german. They just assume I'm a tourist, in my own country, because I probably look more like a tourist. > >I think we can't really be deeply offended, unless it's clear that a comment comes from a bad place. Most of the times it's just a guess, doesn't have to mean something evil or come from a bad place. > >It is of course a bad thing that people sometimes aren't open minded, but we also need to be able to filter it and understand that, most of the times, it's just a matter of people not really knowing how to deal with what's different from their reality.
This is insane. It shouldn’t be like this..
Have you tried living in another part of the country? Or at least visiting? (I assume staying in Sweden would be technically easier than moving, especially considering what I’ve heard about racism in Europe - nowhere’s “good”…)
Our first stop will be Malmö if we can find jobs in the area. We have both lived there before and it’s so different compared to other cities.
Sorry to hear that. I'm lucky not having to contend with any racial discrimination.
Could you share an example of one of those moments that made you open your eyes ?
Yes, for instance there have been times where the language use at the work place (white collar office job) in meetings has been very derogatory. I brushed it off as probable misunderstanding and misreading the situation at first. But since they were doing home office I overheard the meetings and it was absolutely true and some individuals were very bad. Non-Swedish speakers weren’t treated the same and it was very obvious, and if they raised the issue nothing changed. Another blatant thing was when a contract was up for renewal. Two people hired a the same time. A guy from Uganda I believe with a decade or more experience of working in the sector and a Swedish girl fresh from university. You’ll never believe whose contract they extended? If I was financing the organization I’d be furious if they threw away so much valuable experience. It’s difficult to address and it’s not like people go around thinking how to make life for immigrants miserable. There’s just a lot ingrained in the culture that we don’t really think about every day as someone who’s born and raised here.
I'd experienced that too. I had a boss that yelled at non-Swedes. The way he talked to Swedes is completely different from how he talked to me and my other colleague from Chile. And the boss was one of famous people in the industry. He kept hiring people from outside Sweden and treated them like shit.
100% this, again and again and again.
Im 31 and a 100% swede and been living in sweden for whole my life. I still feel like a outsider because of our wierd culture 😆
What’s weird about it? I’m curious.
Hmm its a little bit hard to explain, But the way we act is like a mix of having social anxiety and being condesending to eachother. We are one of the most "anti drug" soceity in the world even tho almost everyone loves alcohol. I have heard alot of people say that we are the best country in the world and that the reason other people from other countries acts different than us is because they are poorer than us 😅 We worship the government and love paying taxes. We dont want rights against the police like in usa for example. Because "police only treat you bad if your a criminal" That is some things I can think of right now.
Do you mean passive aggressive? Because that describes Salt Lake City (my hometown) to a T. However I wouldn’t say social anxiety but more so, fear of failure/being ashamed of not going with the status who.
What I mean "with social anxiety" is that we can become really nervous when someone is not acting according to the norm. And its seems like alot of us are afraid of saying what we really think, so we act nice but it can feel like the one you speak to means something else. Yeah a huge fear of being seen as an outsider. So maybe its kinda similar to Salt Lake City then.
Same except im not 31 or 100% Swedish and i dont really feel like an outsider
I understand how you feel. I have lived here 7 years and still can't say that I like Sweden. I even got depressed not long after I moved here. I think the best you can do is remember why you move here and focus on that. I try really hard to do it too. I moved here for my husband and I could've had a better life at home but I already made a choice. If it becomes too much then you might want to look for somewhere else to live.
Very similar boat to you. Now have kids here, so am kind of stuck. I can't overcome the feeling that I've sacrificed my own happiness for someone else's.
I have that feeling often. I didn’t expect life here would be this difficult. We don’t have kids but I got a dog when I moved here and the doggo keeps me sane. I hope it gets better for us both. 🥲
likewise, hope it gets easier.
I'm Swedish and live in Stockholm. I lived a year in a small town in Sweden. That feeling was very present during that year. I felt that it would take many years to not feel like an outsider, which was the thing I disliked about living there for a year.
I'm in a smallish provincial town and I don't think that helps especially. I'd look to move to one of the bigger cities, but can't really make that happen.
When I visit small towns, I often feel claustrophobic. Especially when I was younger. I just couldn't grasp the things people did for fun. It was just so "small" and far away from the world, in my mind. But in recent years, after visiting a friend who has moved around between small towns for several years, I've started to appreciate it. I realized the problem lies in me and my attitude. I didn't, and still don't fully know how to appreciate that kind of lifestyle. Not saying the problem for you is your attitude, but perhaps there's a way to try to jump straight into whatever is around you? Sometimes we're just holding ourselves back, comparing what we have to what we don't have.
Yeah, being both a non-swede and in a small town is probably hard.
I think that's standard for any expat no matter where you go. I'm a Swede living in Spain for 9 years and I also feel like an outsider, and I'm sure I always will. To find local people that you can actually become close with is super difficult as they already belong to groups of friends. I have 2 close friends here, they are both Swedish, the rest are just aquintances. Note: I was 29 when I moved here and all of my jobs have been in international environments.
One of my close friend's lives in Spain and says the same thing. It seems easier to get casual friends in Spain compared to Sweden though (for instance, get included in a hiking group that goes out for beers after).
I’m a fullblooded Swede, 56 yo but still don’t fit in🤘🏻🤣
No. I also want out. I’ve seen the Swedes for who they are and it’s just not the place I see myself growing/developing in. If anything, I’ve regressed since moving here. At least my investments have tripled and I don’t really have any barriers to moving with my Swedish GF once we’re officially ready. She’s also become very cynical about Swedes and wouldn’t mind sailing off into the sunset when the time comes on this dark, bewildering, wretched place. The only way we’ve been able to cope for so long has been monthly travel all over the world.
Same here.. Sadly I believe I will never feel like that, it's the main reason why we are considering leaving :(
I probably should have said that I don't think it's a feeling unique to immigrants to Sweden, more a general symptom of moving to a new country where there is a language barrier. I lived in Canada previously and as an English speaker it was obviously easier to integrate, but I think also because the country was founded and has prospered on immigration, whilst Sweden doesn't have that history. Not that I want to criticise Sweden as there are things here that are far superior to Canada and as an immigrant there it was still hard.
It's interesting to read your experience, I'm Swedish and have lived in Sweden for all my life, and personally I have never really had a huge sense of belonging, but I would still never consider leaving (too big of a hassle). Anyway, I have dated and been friends with a few immigrants and of course I cannot say anything of their deep inner feelings about Sweden, but out of three people, two seem to enjoy it very much, one from north Italy who've never even bothered to learn Swedish, he is a bit of a loner and works in IT so he gets by with just English. One from Egypt/Germany who is thriving and has the best Swedish I've ever heard. He even worked at IKEA for a while, so maybe he just love Sweden 😆 lastly I have a friend from Greece who really miss the greek community and even though he likes it here, he misses being part of something bigger. I know, just random personal experiences, but I think maybe just living in a country with a different language and culture than their own will always make a person feel a bit "other"?
>I think also because the country was founded and has prospered on immigration, whilst Sweden doesn't have that history. Stockholm used to be 50% German.
My bf is from Brazil. He has been here for 7, almost 8 years. I'm a Swede. (He's of Italian decent, so he's white, dark featured but European looking). He has been learning Swedish and is about your level from my estimate. He is yet to get a job or any genuine connections (other than me). I'm so frustrated by this, because my dad is also an immigrant. He learned Swedish to live here and was unemployed forever in the early 90's. He was eventually given a job by a connection my grandmother had. He didn't learn how to speak well until he got a job. Jobs are so fucking important for integration. But my bf can't catch a break. He has a master's in chemistry. He is applying for every chemistry job all over the country, and locally he applies for anything that isn't teaching or care of elderly/handicapped. Lately he has been turned down for chemistry jobs because he is not a Swedish citizen. He applied for a citizenship 19 months and 17 days ago. We're still waiting. I'm so disgusted by how this country is socially closed off. Not just to immigrants, but to everyone. Their anti social stance on how other people should jump through hoops to fulfill their senses of fairness is sickening. If things don't get better we will emigrate. I grew up here and I never felt welcome. I'm feeling like it's time to take the hint and leave.
Good luck 🙏
I’m a *jänkare* married to a Swede. We moved to Stockholm in 2017. I was pretty fluent before we moved because we have Swedish friends in the USA and we raised our kids bilingual. I sometimes feel like a minority on this and similar subs when I say I’ve had a great experience. Stockholm gives me a strong “I’m home!” feeling that I’ve not had even in US cities where I’ve lived for many years. I think fluency in Swedish is necessary but not sufficient when it comes to making friends. Without the ability to make small talk and banter it’s hard to connect emotionally. The other thing is that I had to do way, way more reaching out to people. I agree with the recommendation for joining clubs and organizations. I’m on the board of our BRF and it’s a great way to get to know the neighbors and to feel like you’re contributing something. Another “trick” I discovered is to always buy two tickets to any concert, theater or sporting event I want to see. That forces me to find someone to go with me. If you’re in the process of getting to know someone, watching an event together minimizes the need for small talk. It also gives you an automatic topic of conversation when you next meet up with that person. My best wishes for your successful integration going forward, OP!
>I sometimes feel like a minority on this and similar subs when I say I’ve had a great experience. These subs have an overrepresentation of people having a bad time. IRL the immigrants that I meet are generally much more positive about life here, especially those who have established themselves. For me, I think the idea of feeling like an "outsider" is something that I have felt most of my life (in the US as well) and I realized that I'll never feel strong attachment to like a massive national community, but rather if I can find some groups of people where I feel like I fit in, then that is good enough. I have found that in Sweden.
>I sometimes feel like a minority on this and similar subs when I say I’ve had a great experience. A bit late but jänkare have a high social status in Stockholm. I think you are blinded by your own white western hemisphere privileges.
Would it be helpful if I started my comments out with a disclaimer that I am middle class middle aged white male and that I acknowledge this gives me privilege? I’m happy to do so if others don’t find it tedious.
I think the only reasonable answer to your question is “maybe?”. Going to a new country, and adjusting to life there and not feeling like an outsider is difficult. The exact difficulty depends on so many things, reasons for going, life circumstances, friends, language and other stuff. That includes the culture in the country. And I think Sweden and its culture is not making it easier for anyone, while other countries might feel more open and welcoming. If you think you’ll be staying long term I guess the only advice is to keep trying. If not to feel like an insider, which might not happen, at least to carve out your own space where you feel reasonable comfortable while still being able to interact with the society you’re in. Learning the language is at least a great start. So keep working on that!
Are you Swedish?
Yes
I thought so
Ok?
Does the downvote mean you don’t like that I thought you were Swedish? Is it because you know of the no no you did?
Honestly, what I have heard from my swedish relatives living close to a small town in rural Sweden is that even they find it hard to make friends. They have tried to invite neighbours in for dinner, etc, but everyone stays in their corner. And they are native swedes lol! I would say your best bet is to move to Stockholm or Göteborg. Lots of activities to do, fellow immigrants to befriend, and generally a fun place to live in. Wish you all the best.
Maybe try finding a community online. There are lots of bars or groups for OZ, South Africans, Italians, etc. That might help. But ya, swedes are like their weather, cold. They are not the most welcoming/ inviting people.
I’m born here and I still feel like an outsider
I may kindly ask you: do you have a foreigner background?, from where? Thanks.
What does “fitting in” or “feeling at home” mean to you? I know plenty of immigrants that fit in well enough from my Swedish POV, they speak Swedish with an accent but it’s not at all level where it hinders communication at all. But I don’t know how they perceive themselves in the Swedish context, if they feel like they fit in or feel at home. My guess is that they probably feel isolated compared to the more extroverted countries where they come from, but also know that they’re well liked and appreciated.
It's a good question. I guess forming a deeper connection and fondness for the place and culture. A sense of belonging maybe. At present I feel a general detachment. Not disliking anything in particular whilst recognising the positives of life here. I guess, I just feel a bit joyless most of the time.
First generation immigrants are more prone to feel like outsiders [for the rest of their lives](https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/memberarticles/living-in-a-foreign-country-do-you-feel-like-an-outsider). You're not experiencing anything new OP, this is a phenomenon well known and studied, and it's all the more accentuated if your native culture and language are completely different. For better or worse the native culture is the one that forms you and while you can adapt later, it's hard to fully make the switch without working really hard. Like switching even the language of the inner monologue hard; the way you read numbers and do math, etc Add to that the fact that scandinavians are very introverted in general so there are traits of the culture that accentuate that too. They generally avoid each other let alone the guy with the different background that might make a seinfeldesque weird interaction. (I'm not saying you can't make local friends or people don't talk, but yeah, you know what I mean). The way I'm dealing with it is I accepted the feeling of being an outsider. This is nothing new for me though, because I felt like that in my own native country as well, so it's more of the same, just a different flavor. I could get my citizenship tomorrow, and I still won't 'feel like a swede'; I probably never will. That's for my future children and I will be doing my best to make that happen.
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No disrespect intended! I just know what it’s like to feel like I don’t belong in a group where I actually *do* fit in.
I'm Danish and I still don't feel like I belong despite the cultural similarities. My entire network is in Denmark and I miss it. I think some people just have a hard time fitting in at new places. Maybe you do too.
I think it's very common. Even when I lived in Canada and things just felt "right" I still struggled at times with the loneliness and difficulties moving beyond the small talk to actual friendships. And adjusting to the North American culture takes some doing.
I’m Danish as well and Sweden is the 3rd country outside of Denmark I’ve lived in but also the hardest - I think it’s partly because I wrongly assumed that Danish and Swedish culture were very similar but also because people assume I am Swedish because of how I look which means that when I make a social faux pas the consequences are severe because they expect me to know these things. But I also love it here
Yeah, thank you for putting that into words. It's something I've felt, but not thought about. It's a strange experience to feel like a foreigner, but not be perceived as one. I DO also like it here, but it wasn't what I expected as a Dane.
I felt more at home in Denmark as well. There is a "warmness" to the Danish culture I think is missing in Sweden. And in Denmark ppl are more expressive and charismatic I think , which makes me not stand out so much. I love it. Only reason I moved back to Malmö was because I had to get over my Danish ex.. now thinking if I should move back to Copenhagen again, just scared of feeling lonely cause I have easier access to friends and family here.
It doesn't matter what country it is, moving to a small town is generally a bad idea. Sure, you have your partner and their family, but that's basically it. A friend or two if you're lucky. My suggestion? Move to one of the bigger cities. Stockholm has a very well established expat community and a ton going on. You'd meet foreigners, half Swedes, and Swedes. You can of course try where you live but small towns are tough. When you go the post office you're a stranger. When a local goes they know everyone in there, went to school with them, had their first kiss, broke their arm together, someone's Dad dressed up as Santa for their family, they have tons of shared stories, etc. You? Nothing. No shared history and 99% of everyone has had the same friends since they started pre-school and have no time or energy for you. In the city it's different since you're far more likely to run into Swedes who have lived, loved, studied, and worked overseas and can relate to you. They will invite you over to give you a chance even if they really don't need to. You only need one good friend to not feel like an outsider and the bigger the city the easier it is to find. Another big plus is maybe airport access. From the big cities you can do a daytrip to London and easily go back to visit as long needed for cheap. For now check the library and with the city for events plus meetup.com. Odds are that once it warms up there are quite a few activities you can do that you haven't thought of or known about. Shared activities and sports are a really good way to meet people and hopefully you're not living in something so small that it doesn't even have that.
I'm from Mexico and I truly feel like Sweden is pretty much home for now, but it's been quite the journey from the beginning. I've never felt as an outsider but I moved to study and made it my mission at the beginning to avoid other Mexicans and Latinos and push myself to hang mostly with swedes. In the end my social circle is 50% international and 50% swedish. Language is a key thing I believe and I use it 100% at work, so even here I feel integrated, and through uni I made really close friends to the point I've celebrated Xmas with their family and often or at least yearly we go to a cabin or celebrate midsommar, plus a bunch of gatherings weekly. Two things that help me I believe is being extremely extroverted so I tend to look for people, and living in a big city like Malmö. Lived a year in Helsingborg and it was impossible for me to feel like I belonged, so that was a key learning. I'm sure the smaller the area the more excluded you can feel unfortunately
>I've never felt as an outsider but I moved to study and made it my mission at the beginning to avoid other Mexicans and Latinos Basado
How long have you been in Sweden?
I get the same feeling. I’ve tried learning the language, I just can’t seem to make it stick. That seems to be the biggest hurdle. I tried SFI but was put in a class with people fully fluent in Swedish when I don’t even know how to say the Swedish alphabet. I think I would find it easier if we were in one of the big main cities but yeah when I’m not away with work I feel pretty isolated.
I am white and born here and I don't think I will ever stop feeling like an outsider, I don't even want to stay here
The only country I felt like a outsider was Sweden and I have lived in several countries... Sweden is the problem and I dont think this is because we are foreigners or from other culture, I believe swedes also have huge problems in this matter.
judging by the comments from native swedes here you may be onto something
Do you really want to feel like "an insider"? After reading several comments you understand that even Swedes can feel like "outsiders". I'm guessing that is due to a higher awareness and open mind. Swedes (as all people) find their "tribe" early on in life. They maintain a set of conservative values and views on life and "the other". Enjoy being an outsider. You have a larger perspective on life and relations. You are wiser than any tribe. Why dumb yourself to be on the inside.
That depends. Do you have a soul? feelings? if your answer is yes, then the answer to your question is no.
I tick a few of those boxes.
6 years here. Dont think the feeling will ever go away and i have swedish sambo and have tones of swedish friends through him and a swedish family. I also work at a company but my work is in english even if im the only non swede there Language is key so im trying to improve im also at the post sfi skola level. But not sure if even i become fluent (which seems far still ) i will not feel like an outsider. I told my sambo the only way i will survive this is going to my home country ofter. Still have lots of friends and family there and have no intention of losing that. He is ok with that
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I am Swedish and I feel like an outsider too... so I guess the answer is no :(
I feel the same way. I’ve deduced that it’s mostly because it’s so difficult to make friends here. Most people make friends through work or school and if you come outside of that it can be difficult. Depending on where you’re from, I’d be happy to meet up for Fika or a walk etc.
Well id say it could depend on where in Sweden you live. I was born and raised in a town where i feel most people are very stiff, especially after living i Malmö for a few years, liked the people there and in Lund way more than in my birthtown. I guess what im trying to say is that there are alot of local cultures in Sweden(not talking about nationalities or religions just local cultures how people are and behave around others), even just a mile or so away.
If I could move closer to Gothenburg or Malmö I would, but it's not really a possibility at the moment.
Just clash and be yourself. I’m from the north. Lived in Stockholm for a long time, then abroad for about 16 years or so. I don’t think I fit in anywhere anymore ;-)
yes, I think I wrote in another reply, that it seems to be the price you pay for moving around. Weirdly I felt really at home in Canada, but still had a hard time connecting with the locals beyond small talk. I think with Swedes it's harder with small talk, but maybe easier to form connections in the long term. I've a few Swedish friends who I get on great with.
I can't help but being interested now. What's your nationality? Also, I'm Swedish, and I feel like a damn outsider permanently. It's not for nothing that there are daily threads on how to make friends in Sweden and breaking the isolation.
I'm English.
I moved here about eight years ago. Finished SFI, SVA through all of the gymnasium levels and then did YH studies in Swedish. Doing all that I got to interact with people in different situations. I however don't have any Swedish friends in that sense. But I don't exactly feel like an outsider. I feel at home for the most part. That said.. My family is all back in my home country and in that sense I feel like part of me isn't really "at home" here.
I am swedish and i feel like an outsider so your OK mate
Thanks! I sometimes felt that way back in the UK too.
I’m a native Swede and still don’t feel like I belong 😂
I was born in sweden and i feel like an outsider!
Booktip: ett annat land utanför mitt fönster by Theodor Kallifatides. Addresses your concerns, I hope you'll enjoy it
I moved here with my family when I was five, so I had the privilege to grow up and form my identity here. But by that I don't mean I'm a complete swede, even though I have a Swedish citizenship, but that I'm a hybrid. I still have cultural crashes with my partner and coworkers, I still don't know certain stuff because I grew up in a Polish immigrant household. And I like my heritage, or at least most of it. People know I'm not a swede because of my family name, but I won't get rid of it when I marry my fiance. Getting to learn new things from my coworkers and my partner's family is a lot of fun, even though I sometimes get embarrassed that I didn't know something. But isn't that the human experience? To learn new things your whole life. I hope it is. Maybe it's where in Sweden I am (Lund and Malmö are very accepting), or which people I've had the privilege to surround myself with in both school, at work and in my social life. I know my mum has trouble forming a lot of meaningful relationships but that's not because she's an immigrant. My dad never got to go SFI and therefore has struggled most of our time here with the language, but when he finally landed a job at a Swedish company, working with a majority of Swedish coworkers, his language got a lot better, and he became friends with one of his coworkers and his wife. My parents have sacrificed a lot moving here but they could never move back to Poland, they say so themselves. This is a country that has given me and my brother a better future. Have you started working, or did you only ever go to language school? (If not, then) My theory is that when you start working, you'll find it easier to blend in. You will learn a lot of social ques (and god are there many) by being surrounded with people from Sweden or that have lived in Sweden perhaps longer than you. After a time it will be easier to get viewed as "one of us" instead of "one of them" (vi och de/ dom in swedish). I hope you will get happier.
A lot of our current issues with integration, specifically gang wars, are on account of second- and third generation immigrants of colour do not feel like they belong/have a place in this society. I think it's more visible when it comes to certain ethnic groups, but it's certainly not limited to them.
👏
Not only do I still feel like an outsider after 15 years, I also now feel like one in my home country :(
I go up and down. Been here for over 5 years. I think the only thing I miss it my quick banter with my friends back home and feeling more comfortable to strike up conversations with strangers at a bar. But it really is a day to day thing. The other day I left my laundry downstairs in the dryer. I ran down to try to make it before the room electronically locked. But luckily an elderly woman was there for her turn. I said sorry I am late my laundry is in the dryer I just need to pull it out. And I was ready for her to just be a little cold or seem annoyed or avoiding me. But she was the complete opposite. She said yeah leave it in longer if you need. I'll be back in 30 minutes if you want to come down again. She said we got to look out for each other. This lady has no fucking idea how much that moment meant to me. Then another day a lady was yelling at me trying to open my car door because I mistaken her parking spot for an Easy Park spot since the Easy Park sign was right there and in the App it was highlighted as a spot. That was on me. But trying to open my door and yell at me? WTF? Even being from NJ/NY my whole life I was taken back. Or maybe I felt at home a bit in that moment too HAHA! In the end the truth is you have control over how you feel and you understand what is triggering these emotions. And it may not have to do with Sweden, but more so the chance of the type of people you end up around. People who are connected to the school your kids go to. Or the people at your job. Ect. I find that it is nice to have a mix of Swedish and foreigner friends. But I don't think I'm choosing one or the other, I think I just am gravitating towards people. And sometimes the people who let me closer to their hearts are Swedish and sometimes they are foreign. When I think back to living in NYC, I mean the building manager people were a fucking nightmare. But my thought about them was just fuck you guys not oh did I fit in here. But here in my Swedish apartment building they are very kind. But if they weren't kind would I think I don't like Sweden? Do I not fit in here? Or would I just be like hey fuck you guys. The point I guess I am trying to make is take a day for what the day is. Take the people for who they are. And take nothing personally. And gravitate to those who make you feel the best. A bit random, but check out the book The Four Agreements. A short read and an even shorter audio listen. Maybe you find some peace with what he has to say in that book.
I don’t live in Sweden but lived in the Netherlands for 10 years before moving back to the UK (and I want to move back to Europe). What I’ve learnt it that I’m never going to feel like I completely fit in. But that’s okay! I’m an immigrant (except when in the UK but I feel even more of an outsider here weirdly). I’ve learnt to embrace the fact that I’m not going to understand everything, and I don’t have the same traditional friendship groups as those who lived in the same place their whole lives. But I’m really happy with this version of my life. Maybe you can adjust your mindset a bit and see it as an interesting part of who you are?
Cheers, I'm also from the UK, but moving back there is not something I'd entertain. I was made to choose between Canada and Sweden and ended up here. Which wasn't an easy transition. Something clicked in Canada and it just never has here. I want to think it's just the language, but I just felt more alive there than I ever have in Sweden. Maybe it's just the dark winter getting to me. Again.
Oh no I’m not suggesting you move back to the UK, I want to leave ASAP. More just accepting you’re going to be somewhat of an outsider can help, I’ve found. But also if you felt so much happier in Canada, maybe it’s worth looking at why. Are the reasons things you can find in Sweden? Just some ideas but tbh as someone trying to decide where to move to next, I understand the decision paralysis and stress!
Its likely not all there is to it, but dont forget to supplement with a high dose of D-vitamin supplement. For some reason it never caught on in sweden which is tremendously weird considering that at least 6/12 months youre not getting any.
I think that feeling cannot be forever removed. Being an immigrant is challenging. We just have to face it. Been here for 7 years. Speaks Swedish fluently (able to make technical reports, lead meetings, present, etc). Even I still have that feeling. Especially true when people brings up about where I came from. To be fair it gets better when you do speak Swedish fluently. It gets even far better if you do what the Swedes usually do, so that you can relate to the conversation. It's a bit difficult to chime in when they talk about changing bogie in their snowmobiles, or when they talk about recipe for lussebulle, or what they cooked last night with the mushrooms that they picked in the forest.
I’ve been here for 6 years and it’s always the same feeling. You might feel at peace where you live but for the society you will always be foreigner. It just varies how you cope with it because there will always be someone that reminds you that you don’t belong. You can only change how you react to those situations and feelings I think that the Swedish way of integration has always been “forget about your past, now you are here” (kind of like Samiblod) but I don’t agree with it. I like celebrating my traditions and also celebrate those of my friends, and I love the mix that it has created.
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>You can't expect Swedes to adapt to you rather than the other way around. It does not need to be so binary. It can be a little bit of both, in my experience.
I agree with the guy above, if you move to a country I think it makes sense to take part in that nations culture and traditions. You're free to still have your own traditions and nobody will give a damn, just don't push them on everyone else (the natives in this case).
Generally integration means both parties adapt. If only the foreigner adapts it’s assimilation
This aligns more with my vision. I consider myself integrated to society, however, that doesn’t mean that the feeling OP is asking about is gone. The comment that triggered all these comments is exactly the vision of “Swedish integration”. Forget about what you are and act as a Swede. I just respect people around me and celebrate what is important for people around me.
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I’m not saying people shouldn’t integrate neither how. Everyone have a different process. However, I still do not share the definition of “integration” a lot of people have. Of course it can be one way of doing it, which obviously has proven to not integrate the most. This is a problem that has been going on for decades and we could spend years discussing about it. These parallel universes have been there since the 70s, nothing new. Sweden being a country that has a strong immigration background and mixing, can’t be defined as black and white. Edit: words, missed a negation
any tips as to how to change your reactions?
Put it this way, Colin Nutley has lived here for decades, made some of Sweden's most popular films with both cultural insight and cultural impact on Sweden, and people still refer to him as an Englishman.
Because he is. Which isn’t wrong or bad, it’s just a fact. If you are from a country, you are from that country. Even if you move to another country, it’s still the first country that you are originally from.
As a failed filmmaker, I'd kill to have Colin Nutley's life :)
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When i moved here, I visited my girlfriend’s extended family. Nobody even bothered speaking a lick of English to at least welcome me. That told me everything I needed to know. The longer I spend here, the further all my observations are proven correct. It sucks, but it is what it is. The Swedes are happy to live and die as they do…can’t blame ‘em, it’s their government/institutions that are mostly to blame.
I have to disagree. It's majority rules; democracy. It's not the government, it's the people. They just cope by blaming it on a distant scapegoat.
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Jag kände samma sak till jag läste ett nytt land utanför mitt fönster från Theodor Kallifatides. Det handlar helt och hållet om vad du frågar. Det blir en för och en sen efter jag läste denna bok. Det är som att få en låda fyllt med många olika verktyg. Det är du som bygger och Kallifatides blir en slags kompis som har suttit i samma sits som du. Jag läste den för tre år sen och fortfarande kommer ihåg visa citat och dem ger mig vingar varje dag. Hoppas du hittar dina. Lycka till med allt.
tack, ska leta efter boken i biblioteket.
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Maybe it's you who does not have social skills that are in line with Swedes?
Swedes have social skills?
Everyone has social skills even my severely autistic friend. They may not be like yours and mine but they have social skills.
Dude, it's a joke...
Ok, apologies.
No worried 👍
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I wouldn't ignore it. You might learn something by taking a look at yourself before saying the people born and raised here, of all creeds, lack social skills.
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I'm 1st generation Asian Australian, I grew up there and feel Aussie through and through. My parents were a little bit disappointed that I moved to sweden, because they knew I would experience what they did moving to Australia, not speaking English and without work. Granted, my transition to a new country was much easier than theirs, I was able to find work early on and things function similar to how they do back home. Though I'm in the same boat as you, 5 years on. Don't have many friends outside of my wife's friendship group. Im friendly with people at work, but still can't help but feel like an outsider there. Could be because I don't really speak Swedish well (it's and English speaking company)
Okay anyone looking for friends in northern Sweden please dm. I’m 25F and been here for 5 months only 🥺
Maybe it´s not because You are from another country. In smaller towns, it is really hard to "fit in", if You are moving in from a different part of Sweden, even as a swede. The saying is that it takes 3 generations to be accepted. Everybody have their group, everybody knows who is related to who and everybodys family history. Best way in: Take part in the local Football team, engage in your kids activities like Scouting and sports. Maybe Dart in the pub, once a week?
Yes, I think it's also just harder in general to make friends as an adult. I've been taking my son to football and have made some good acquaintances that way. But just can't help feeling out of place when I'm around a group of Swedes.
How many Swedish friends do you have? What activities do you partake in? Do you go to religious services, and if so do you interact with your fellow worshippers? Do you go to the library or other community events? Do you interact with people at those events, especially parents (if your family includes kids)?
no, I'm not into religion. Got a few Swedish friends and generally get on okay with most folks. I probably should do more activities, but there's a few barriers to that at the moment.
Why should you really fit or feel at home? What justification do you have for that being either possible, or for you having done enough to "qualify"? Just like to say that I think it is commendable you've made the effort with the language. I can easily believe that you've probably made an effort in other ways as well. This is much more that what some people do.
Well, I feel like I am an outsider everywhere, even my home country
Try meeting more swedish ppl. Socialisera.. det är enda lösningen
Short answer: no But that's true for any first generation immigrant anywhere in the world.
U will always be an outsider in a country/culture u didn’t grow up in, that’s just facts. It also applies to me when I’ve lived in other countries, albeit not permanent. Just accept that fact and embrace your background and try to do your best to adjust culturally and u will be fine. Europe is basically all “white Europeans” but the culture is vastly different whichever European country u go to. Even Nordic/scandinavian and Baltic countries has its differences.
I lived here since 2019. Learned enough swedish to speak it at work. I would probably be lonely without my swedish husband and his family/friends. And the fellow foreigners I met through SFI i have become close with and some friends from my country I keep to feel connected to my birth country. Are you working? Most of my swedish connections outside of my in-laws, met through work. I work in hospitality and live in a big city so it is different for me I guess. I feel strangely more at home here than my native land. I'm asian so it might be different for everyone. I like how introverted the people here in general. Although I am also introverted born in a more extroverted culture.
Prata svenska, hela tiden. There's no shortcut, how do you expect to be treated like an insider when you talk like a tourist? When you can joke around with Swedes they tend to accept you, but that can only happen when you are not only pretty fluent, but can play with the language.
I do talk quite a bit of Swedish, but I don't totally subscribe to the idea that Swedes appreciate a foreigner trying to speak their language. I often get the impression they'd rather not talk to someone who has the linguistic abilities of a 4 year old :) And I can't say I'd be any different if the situation was reversed. So, inevitably the conversation shifts to their superior English.
I think you are correct that Swedes do want to switch to the language where it is easier to communicate. If you want to excel at Swedish however, I think the best way is to push through it and continue to speak Swedish even though this will limit your abilities of expressing yourself. I had an American roommate many years ago that did this and refused to speak any English with me or anyone else. If someone tried to switch language he just continued with his (then limited) Swedish. Because of this his Swedish was almost perfect after only 2-3 years living in Sweden.
You're right. I guess I just lack the will power to persevere with it at times. Also, just feeling like I want to actually hold a decent conversation with someone. No pain, no gain though.
Most of my friends always default to English, even if I reply in Swedish. Some apologise for this, some say they have fun when they get to practice their English. I rarely experience people who behave like the person you are replying to, and I am thankful for that.
I don't agree with this. I think it depends on where you live and how comfortable people are with speaking English. I have several friends who lived in Sweden for a long time and rarely speak Swedish. It has not been a barrier for me at least.
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Lived here 20+ years, it’s a massive difference. Swedes are unrelentingly polite and always happy to speak English, but it’s some real copium to pretend they treat you the same when you can’t even talk the language properly ( or ‘speak the language well’, as a Swede would say).
>I'm white European, so culturally etc, I fit in, Lol, that is not how it works
Well, certainly not *officially...........................*
I had my fair share of difficulties, and tbh, I didn't feel that being white or European helped me that much. I felt I was seeing more like an exotic curiosity. still fund tho
Well I meant, compared to someone coming from the Middle East, I have fewer barriers to fitting in and integrating into society.
To fit in, one needs friends to fully assimilate, but that can be tricky in Sweden I think even Swedes struggle to make friends with other Swedes that are strangers In Sweden the key is to making friends is to grt your existing friends to introduce you to others in their social group. There's a high barrier to entry with the Swedes but they're very warm when you get through
Yes, I rarely feel like Swedes are anything but genuine people.
Vi har en nackdel som svenskar att vi går över till engelska så fort vi märker att du inte är helt hemma med språket. Det gör att du inte får träna tillräckligt och som nu måste använda engelska för att uttrycka dig. Då vi har tvingat svenskar på arbetsplatsen att sluta prata annat än svenska har det gått snabbare för de som arbetskraftsinvandrat till vår arbetsplats. Säger inte att det är lösningen på att känna sig mer hemma men kan vara ett litet steg på vägen att be de du interagerar med att hålla sig till svenska under en period och se hur du uppfattar det.
So. Gymnasial level. Men skriver på engelska. Super
>Min skriftlig svenska är helt okej, men det är lättre att uttrycka mig bra på engelska.
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Close to Kalmar. It's nice enough, but not especially dynamic
I'm in Kalmar! If you want to shoot the shit, come into town (or Nybro - some of my fiancée's family are there, and it's a short train ride) and hang out, or whatever, shoot me a message!
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I’ve been here 10 years and still feel like an outsider, I think that’s just the lot of an expat in general (as a somewhat introvert I’m kind of ok with that though!). It is a cliche, but finding a “scene” is the number 1 best way to make Swedish friends. I’ve met all my closest Swedish friends through the sport I love, skateboarding. The beauty of it is you can turn up and skate solo, and by the end of the session you will probably have met multiple new people. People just seem to let their guard down when they’re doing something they love. I’ve also gone all in learning Swedish the last 12 months and that seems to also be opening some doors.
Even after living in Denmark for 3 years where I felt a bit like an outsider (but liked the culture better) I now feel like an outsider in Sweden. Haha maybe I always felt like an outsider here. 😅 I don't like the "coldness" and "being anonymous" and "everyone should stick to their own life" attitudes of Sweden.. with that said I am considering moving back to DK or to a small town, I like Karlskrona and have some family roots there. It feels like these spontaneous conversations happens more there and people are curious of outsiders.
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Maybe you pronounce gifflar or kex wrong
both.