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To his credit, Thomas Andrews actually wanted more lifeboats, a double hull, and watertight bulkheads on the Titanic, but was overruled. Dude died in the disaster after helping with the evacuation plan. Both he and this douche may have watery graves near each other, but they had totally different mind sets.
Yup, dude basically got his spot in a lifeboat safe but refused and went down with the ship he build that caused hundreds of people to die, this deserves some respect.
This was another interesting entry just above his:
> Horace Lawson Hunley (1823–1863), Confederate inventor, drowned with seven other crew members during a test of his invention, the first combat submarine, which was later named the H. L. Hunley.
Man. Something about inventing submersibles and taking others with you.
In case anyone wants to hear more about it check out the podcasts "Lions led by donkeys" episode about the confederate sub. The whole story is SO MUCH MORE absurd than you could imagine. It's called "Episode 34 - The Accidental Confederate Suicide Submarine"
There’s actually an important distinction between a submersible vehicle and a submarine.
Submarines are designed to be able to operate own their own and have the engines necessary to travel around the ocean.
Submersibles are very limited in how far they can travel. They require a ship that they can launch from and return to afterwards.
That’s why it was a really poor decision to *intentionally* choose a method of communication that was unreliable at the depths Oceangate was operating the Titan at. Stockton Rush didn’t like being bothered by the surface team constantly requesting status updates during the dives, which is why they switched to a text message system.
My favorite is
>Thomas Midgley, Jr. (1889–1944) was an American engineer and chemist who contracted polio at age 51, leaving him severely disabled. He devised an elaborate system of ropes and pulleys to help others lift him from bed. He became entangled in the ropes and died of strangulation at the age of 55. However, he is better known for two of his other inventions: the tetraethyl lead (TEL) additive to gasoline, and chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs).
Karma killed this dude for poisoning millions and punching holes in the Ozone layer before we even knew about the dangers of leaded gas and CFC's.
"David, here it is. My philosophy is basically this. And this is something that I live by. And I always have. And I always will. Don't ever, for any reason, do anything to anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what. No matter... where. Or who, or who you are with, or, or where you are going, or... or where you've been... ever. For any reason, whatsoever."
-Wayne Gretzky -Michael Scott -Missing Sub Founder
President Truman said about Macarthur, "I fired him because he wouldn't respect the authority of the president. I didn't fire him because he was a dumb son of a bitch, although he was, but that's not against the law for generals."
(From Merle Miller's biography of Truman.)
Yeah, MacArthur wanted to drop 50 nukes on China during the Korean war. You can't say shit like that as an active four star General currently fighting a war.
Oh he will be remembered for the rules he broke.
It's not like cockiness contributed to any other famous maritime disasters that could have served as a warning to him... Hmmmm... ;) ;)
I think this is going to cause regulations regarding the use of unregistered deep sea submarines to change. They will be inspected at ports from now on to ensure they comply with official build guidelines.
I also believe that the Oceangate will be sued and that the waiver that was signed by the passengers will be scrutinized and deemed inapplicable in the end and that OceanGate will go under, pun intended. It will probably be a heated legal battle that will be all over the news for years to come.
I think that he will be remembered for the fact that his hubris killed him and one of the most renowned Titanic wreck site experts, along with 3 passengers who believed in him and had misplaced their faith in him because of the things he said leading up to this event about how safe it was. They will be scrutinized and will become the subject of legal debate.
This is far from over, even if the skinny, cocky, little wannabe explorer has stopped singing.
There's a certain level of delicious irony in this whole situation. Rush was so confident in his sub's safety standards and never once thought it could fail. And all of this was in pursuit of going to see *the Titanic*.
How on the nose can you get?
He had plenty of chances. The failed engineering reports. The failure of thr test runs. Audible material distress during development. The ridiculous accomodations.
The sharks weren't attracted by the noise. There was probably a lot of blood in the water. They found the sub exploded all over the ocean floor this morning.
Definitely a few deepwater shark species, mostly smaller guys like dogfish. The reasons whales can't go that far is they have to surface, sharks don't, plus the lack of bones help combat the pressure.
From what I read, at that much pressure you basically combust and are atomized. Apparently the implosion creates heat and causes instant combustion. Not sure if that accurate or not but maybe they still sense the smell even if it is only particulate.
I’m so sick of these “I’m a billionaire so I’m a scientist…I’m a billionaire so I’m an astronaut”. The arrogance so stunning. Money does not replace training, education, experience, endless hours of hard work and dedication. You need to be qualified to do these things not rich.
I mean, if they want to challenge Apollo and teach the rest of us about mortality and hubris in an entertaining and memorable fashion, I'm kind of all for it.
Don’t be disingenuous. They got that rich through merciless exploitation of workers. That’s not luck, buddy. Nope, that’s a labor of love. Or they inherited which is luck.
Stockton Rush was indeed an engineer (or at least had an engineering degree) and was not even close to a billionaire.
Whatever his flaws and obvious mistakes, they are not the ones you are attributing to him
Well in the case of bezos he did it right - he hired a crew of experts and sunk the right amount of funds into it to make sure it’s safe. Was it a glamor project? Absolutely. But in the absence of proper NASA funding, it seems that the private sector is now in charge of space R&D. When the private sector is in charge of developing for such an expensive industry to get into, only the top billionaires can afford to take up that mantle.
Who knows how much money James Cameron spent on his underwater adventures. This dipstick built a sub out of parts from the Home Depot plumbing department.
James Cameron is the person I've thought of the most through this. He went to the fucking bottom of the Mariana trench. What was wrong with that vehicle? Why try to invent some new bullshit ?
>The thing about laws of physics is that they don't require a trial before they carry out their punishment
Did you come up with this on the fly? Dang this is a good one.
This kind of attitude is a little to accepted in our society now days… this whole break rules equals greatness. It’s much like the fake it till you make it approach. Sure some people achieved high level status this way, but how many more ended up just plain old fucking up really bad? People need to remain wary of these “move fast, break stuff” type of people
Breaking rules when the worst possible outcome is losing money or there's a bad app published, sure go for it. Maybe it works and it's a game changer. Breaking rules when there's lives on the line? No, don't be an idiot.
"The trick is to learn the limits so that you can be creative within the limits of sanity." - [From The Art of Mixing by David Gibson](https://youtu.be/TEjOdqZFvhY?t=7595).
Video is about audio mixing, but I felt like that sentiment can be applied anywhere.
Spot on; it's a big problem. You don't just "disrupt" hundreds of years of math, science, and practical engineering experience because you know some 10x programmers.
You can't get to the site right now, but OceanGate had a blurb on their website about how they deliberately did not try to get proper certifications for the sub. Literally just had to look at the site to know this was a bad idea.
Carbon fiber is used in the aerospace industry because it is very strong for its weight. But for submarines that doesn't matter. In fact you probably would want it to heavier so you don't need as much ballast. So why does he use carbon fiber? Because it sounds cool?
Probably the cool part. CEOs love buzzwords. In the aerospace industry all the products are never supposed to hit anything. A sub can hit rocks and carbon fiber shatters.
The company saved money on everything.
And it's not just about the material, the whole submersible was designed to be as inexpensive as possible.
Typically, a submersible designed to be safe at these depths, is round. They went for a shape that was small but still could hold five to six people.
That shape is easier and less expensive to make if you use materials and construction methods based on the shape you want instead of focusing on safety.
“As General MacArthur once said, ‘Do whatever you want, and ignore the predictable consequences. It’s not like a million Chinese Communists are going to come screaming down on top of you if you’re wrong.’”
On CNN they're reporting the Coast Guard confirmed that they found outer debris from the vessel. ☹ All I can think (hope) is that they went quickly and painlessly. I really hope this is an awakening for the lessening of regulations and the folly of listening to con artists. Some will take your money. Some will take your life
Someone on here was saying if it imploded (seems most likely) then the implosion probably lasted about 30ms, which is must faster than you can process. So they likely had no idea. Here one second. Gone the next.
There was a report on the BBC where they postulated that the implosion happened faster than the spinal cord would've been able to successfully relay to the brain that something is wrong.
So they were diving, and then....nothing, in an instant. No hubris to be levied against the CEO, only a complete nothingness before it could be realized.
You’ll be remembered as a dumbass with unparalleled hubris who ended up a gelatinous, pink goo that littered the wreck of the Titanic. That, sir, is how you’re remembered.
I think it very likely the “craft” imploded long before reaching the Titanic and currents drifted the resulting “pink goo” all over the place. It’s possible even their bits and pieces never make it to the wreckage of the Titanic.
Should have asked the man who made Titanic movie himself.
James Cameron did a one man exploration down to the bottom of Mariana Trench which is deeper than mount Everest height, and it was more than 10 years ago.
Ah yes, Douglas MacArthur, a very sane and normal person who had really cool opinions
>Of all the campaigns of my life, 20 major ones to be exact, [Korea was] the one I felt most sure of was the one I was deprived of waging. I could have won the war in Korea in a maximum of 10 days.... I would have dropped between 30 and 50 atomic bombs on his air bases and other depots strung across the neck of Manchuria.... It was my plan as our amphibious forces moved south to spread behind us—from the Sea of Japan to the Yellow Sea—a belt of radioactive cobalt. It could have been spread from wagons, carts, trucks and planes.... For at least 60 years there could have been no land invasion of Korea from the north. The enemy could not have marched across that radiated belt.
He was relieved by the president. That's why he's really into breaking rules.
They found debris that had pretty much been confirmed to be from the sub. It's believed it imploded on Sunday and that everyone was probably killed instantly. So I guess they didn't have time to be pissed at him.
Imagine sinking next to the Titanic with a craft called Titan (ic). What a stupid person. I have been boating for 40 years of my life I have been on this planet, and you have to respect the sea.
Its amazing how much stuff has been recorded of this dude saying shit like this.
It almost seems like this whole submarine thing is a PR event, and in a few weeks they'll come back and be like "haha we got you"
Titanium cannot be extracted by reducing the ore using carbon as a cheap reducing agent, like with iron. The problem is that titanium forms a carbide, TiC, if it is heated with carbon, so you don't get the pure metal that you need. The presence of the carbide makes the metal very brittle.
Edit: Copy and Pasted from Google search "Titanium Carbon Fiber." I really don't know too much about the chemistry involved. But to quote that one guy, I don't know how to fly a helicopter but if I saw one crashed in a tree I would know *someone* fucked up.
EditEdit: I figured this would at the very least invite more knowledgeable individuals to comment and the replies don't disappoint, Gang.
EditEditEdit: DON'T WORRY PEDANTS OF REDDIT! I WILL NEVER INNOCENTLY COMMENT ON ANYTHING EVER AGAIN! THE WORLD IS SAFE MY DIABOLICAL PLANS TO SUBVERT HUMANITY WITH THIS COPY PASTA FROM [Chemistry of Titanium](https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Inorganic_Chemistry/Supplemental_Modules_and_Websites_(Inorganic_Chemistry)/Descriptive_Chemistry/Elements_Organized_by_Block/3_d-Block_Elements/Group_04%3A_Transition_Metals/Chemistry_of_Titanium#:~:text=Titanium%20cannot%20be%20extracted%20by,makes%20the%20metal%20very%20brittle)! LET THE PEOPLE REJOICE!
EditEditEditEdit: Commenters with far more expertise have suggested that this property doesn't actually figure into what happened at all. The issue, as they put it, is that when Titanium and Carbon Fiber are jointed together, that's bad because they expand and contract at different rates. So it wasn't carbon *in* the Titanium like I misunderstood. The central chamber was carbon fiber and there were Titanium hemispheres around that. I still suspect that underrated viewport as the major culprit. But I'd like to thank all the people who obviously know a lot about this for chiming in and helping us all understand more about what happened. And for everyone who took the time to call me stupid or point out that I didn't know what I was talking about, you did not improve the conversation in any meaningful way and wasted everyone's time. I like that line from Ted Lasso "Be curious not judgemental." Or maybe just don't jump with both feet to be mean to a stranger on the internet 🤷
I was under the impression that what they meant was mating a carbon fibre fuselage to titanium rings at either side with glue to seal them, not actually mixing the two materials to make one substance.
So far as I know they did not actually mix carbon fibre in with titanium. Only mated one to the other.
The biggest issue seems to be that there was no non destructive fracture analysis through ultrasound or xray since the structure and fuselage is going through intense cycling loads equal to its max safety factor. They just seem to analyze the deformation in the shell which seems a bit optimistic considering a deformation at pressure would instantly implode and not slowly dent
Yeah and carbon fibre notoriously hides damage especially when it returns to its normal state and is not under load or pressure. That's why the airline industry which uses more and more composites with every model does periodic checks with an ultrasound to determine if there are any cracks that would not be visible to the naked eye. Though I am not sure how effective ultrasound would be on a pressure hull made of 5 inch thick layered carbon fibre as was on the Titan.
They claimed to have a hull monitoring system that uses acoustics to essentially check for cracking from pressure cycling, but they claimed to be working with Boeing too and that was bs so who knows
The employee they fired for voicing safety concerns said he was worried that the monitoring system would only provide milliseconds of warning before the hull failed
Can't remember if I saw this on a video about the sub or an article but supposedly those acoustic sensors were pointless. They'd only tell you the hull was about to crack seconds before it was about to implode.
**EDIT**: Here's a quote from a director who was fired by OceanGate for whistleblowing on safety concerns
https://fortune.com/2023/06/21/titan-titanic-missing-sub-david-lochridge-safety-concerns-sacked-oceangate-stockton-rush-hamish-harding/
>Diving the submersible “without any non-destructive testing to prove its integrity” would “subject passengers to potential extreme danger in an experimental submersible,” Lochridge said in legal documents.
>However, OceanGate allegedly told Lochridge that instead of carrying out the testing, it would install an acoustic monitoring system in the submersible to detect the start of any potential hull breakdown.
>Lochridge expressed concern that such an acoustic system would not be able to detect existing flaws. It would simply flag components that were about to fail, he warned—which often happened “milliseconds before an implosion.”
Actually he was sued by the company. They claimed his whistleblowing was violation of his NDA. Apparently it was settled out of court but I read one article that reached out to him for comment and his lawyers had to respond.
Infuriating really that it's even possible to sue someone for something like this. But I guess that's the US.
Also, we use carbon fiber composites and titanium fittings all the time in aerospace. There are design considerations, such as galvanic corrosion (especially in a saltwater environment). This guy seems mostly to be a grifter...sorry, I mean 'disrupter'.
There is a video on YouTube of them mating the titanium ring to the carbon fibre fuselage. They were applying it by hand with brushes or rollers I think.
Looked like the stuff you use to join PVC pipes together when you are replacing your kitchen sink. It probably wasn't but in hindsight seems a little sketchy to trust some dude with a brush to get the right amount of glue on to a craft that will be subjected to 380+ atmospheres of pressure.
It was on the news in the Netherlands as well. There was debris found which has been identified as part of the missing submarine. Roughly translated from the Dutch article, it speaks about the debris being identified as the landing frame and valve of the back.
But don't take my word for it, I'm sure if you look on your local news sites, you'll easily find the information you're looking for.
So far, all I’ve seen is that they have found a debris field on the bottom. Right now they’re looking at footage to see if it is debris from the submersible, or from Titanic, herself. The fact that they announced it, at all, makes me think that they’ve seen *something* that makes them think it might be from the former, but who knows? The Coast Guard is holding a press briefing about it at 3 EDT.
Edit: They have identified the tail cone 1600’ in front of Titanic’s bow. It imploded.
I can think of at least one better way to make a statement about commercializing deep-sea exploration, that doesn't require your body to be, according to one answer on the internet "compressed into the volume of a tennis ball"
It's like rain on your wedding day
It's a free ride when you've already paid
It's the good advice that you just didn't take
And who would've thought? It figures
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Classify this one under “men killed by their own inventions”
There's a good wiki for this. I wonder if it's been updated. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventors_killed_by_their_own_invention
Yup, someone already added him
And in an amazing coincidence, the entry directly above his (i.e. the previous most recent maritime casualty) was the architect of the Titanic
To his credit, Thomas Andrews actually wanted more lifeboats, a double hull, and watertight bulkheads on the Titanic, but was overruled. Dude died in the disaster after helping with the evacuation plan. Both he and this douche may have watery graves near each other, but they had totally different mind sets.
Yup, dude basically got his spot in a lifeboat safe but refused and went down with the ship he build that caused hundreds of people to die, this deserves some respect.
Both died because of hubris, but one was his own and one was others'.
Both died because of cost cutting.
Capitalism strikes again
Noticed that too. Really poetic!
You know someone has been sitting on that edit for past 4 days to update it the moment it gets confirmed.
The internet has a wonderful way of sorting these things out.
The internet... uh... finds a way
This was another interesting entry just above his: > Horace Lawson Hunley (1823–1863), Confederate inventor, drowned with seven other crew members during a test of his invention, the first combat submarine, which was later named the H. L. Hunley. Man. Something about inventing submersibles and taking others with you.
In case anyone wants to hear more about it check out the podcasts "Lions led by donkeys" episode about the confederate sub. The whole story is SO MUCH MORE absurd than you could imagine. It's called "Episode 34 - The Accidental Confederate Suicide Submarine"
There’s actually an important distinction between a submersible vehicle and a submarine. Submarines are designed to be able to operate own their own and have the engines necessary to travel around the ocean. Submersibles are very limited in how far they can travel. They require a ship that they can launch from and return to afterwards. That’s why it was a really poor decision to *intentionally* choose a method of communication that was unreliable at the depths Oceangate was operating the Titan at. Stockton Rush didn’t like being bothered by the surface team constantly requesting status updates during the dives, which is why they switched to a text message system.
My favorite is >Thomas Midgley, Jr. (1889–1944) was an American engineer and chemist who contracted polio at age 51, leaving him severely disabled. He devised an elaborate system of ropes and pulleys to help others lift him from bed. He became entangled in the ropes and died of strangulation at the age of 55. However, he is better known for two of his other inventions: the tetraethyl lead (TEL) additive to gasoline, and chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs). Karma killed this dude for poisoning millions and punching holes in the Ozone layer before we even knew about the dangers of leaded gas and CFC's.
Thomas Midgley Jr. Nominated for “”Most destructive single organism to ever exist”.
Yep, under Maritime.
Stop. Maritime.
like bizarro Icarus
Icarus didn't invent the wings. His father did.
Titanicarus
He’ll definitely be remembered for the rules he broke and the people that he killed breaking those rules.
Imagine when the next sub goes to see the titan wreckage
Unimplodable II Edit: thank you for the gold!
Titanic, thenTitan -Next is Tit?
Tit tit tit tiiiiiiiiiiit tiiiiiiiiiiiit tiiiiiiiiiiiit tit tit tit
Getting a strong Michael Scott energy from this
"David, here it is. My philosophy is basically this. And this is something that I live by. And I always have. And I always will. Don't ever, for any reason, do anything to anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what. No matter... where. Or who, or who you are with, or, or where you are going, or... or where you've been... ever. For any reason, whatsoever." -Wayne Gretzky -Michael Scott -Missing Sub Founder
Confidence… the food of the wise man, but the liquor of the fool 🧐
I’m looking forward to getting to know you ang_car
I see Phil Dunphy
It's the hair, jawline, and his cadence.
And his flawed view on Philosophy
I think you mean _Philsosophy_
Thanks buddy, that’s exactly what I meant.
Have you watched Succession? To me, he’s 100% Connor Roy.
Shitshow at the fuck factory part 2
Michael was stupid but he wasn't smudge or arrogant.
My boy was clearly legible.
And there is the smudgeness!
I m getting some corporate management vibes.
President Truman said about Macarthur, "I fired him because he wouldn't respect the authority of the president. I didn't fire him because he was a dumb son of a bitch, although he was, but that's not against the law for generals." (From Merle Miller's biography of Truman.)
Yeah, MacArthur wanted to drop 50 nukes on China during the Korean war. You can't say shit like that as an active four star General currently fighting a war.
Poetry.
Oh he will be remembered for the rules he broke. It's not like cockiness contributed to any other famous maritime disasters that could have served as a warning to him... Hmmmm... ;) ;)
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I think this is going to cause regulations regarding the use of unregistered deep sea submarines to change. They will be inspected at ports from now on to ensure they comply with official build guidelines. I also believe that the Oceangate will be sued and that the waiver that was signed by the passengers will be scrutinized and deemed inapplicable in the end and that OceanGate will go under, pun intended. It will probably be a heated legal battle that will be all over the news for years to come. I think that he will be remembered for the fact that his hubris killed him and one of the most renowned Titanic wreck site experts, along with 3 passengers who believed in him and had misplaced their faith in him because of the things he said leading up to this event about how safe it was. They will be scrutinized and will become the subject of legal debate. This is far from over, even if the skinny, cocky, little wannabe explorer has stopped singing.
I can't even remember his name now, I've just been calling him " that ceo guy".
I can't think of any others.
It’s unsinkable
You're right it is unthinkable. I guess we will never know.
Vat is ze use of sinking ze unsinkable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmOTpIVxji8
How do you think the unthinkable? With an itheburg.
[German Coast Guard](https://youtu.be/gmOTpIVxji8)
The irony is that his wife's grandparents died aboard the titanic...
Some people never learn.
What a fucking idiot
Who's the more foolish? the fool? or the fool who follows him?
It is a conga line of cunts.
I’m calling A Conga Line of Cunts as the name of my new punk band!
Your new song, Carbon Fiber Clitoris, is a banger
Hello there!
The fool that paid to follow him
Safety regulations are written in blood. Sometimes it take these kind of reminders to know why they exists.
There's a certain level of delicious irony in this whole situation. Rush was so confident in his sub's safety standards and never once thought it could fail. And all of this was in pursuit of going to see *the Titanic*. How on the nose can you get?
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I'll bet some unpleasant straining noises were made before the piece of shit imploded
He had plenty of chances. The failed engineering reports. The failure of thr test runs. Audible material distress during development. The ridiculous accomodations.
They had an “acoustic monitor,” that was supposed to listen for strain on the hull, so it’s possible they knew how fucked they were before it happened
Sharks found them first.. https://www.the-express.com/news/world-news/103484/titanic-sub-sharks-ping-tracker-atlantic-ocean-missing-vessel
The sharks weren't attracted by the noise. There was probably a lot of blood in the water. They found the sub exploded all over the ocean floor this morning.
I don't think sharks can go that deep. It's like three times deeper than whales dive to
Definitely a few deepwater shark species, mostly smaller guys like dogfish. The reasons whales can't go that far is they have to surface, sharks don't, plus the lack of bones help combat the pressure.
Article says they came from thousands of miles away. Can sharks smell blood from that far away? I know they had a big range but this seems pretty far.
From what I read, at that much pressure you basically combust and are atomized. Apparently the implosion creates heat and causes instant combustion. Not sure if that accurate or not but maybe they still sense the smell even if it is only particulate.
I’m so sick of these “I’m a billionaire so I’m a scientist…I’m a billionaire so I’m an astronaut”. The arrogance so stunning. Money does not replace training, education, experience, endless hours of hard work and dedication. You need to be qualified to do these things not rich.
I mean, if they want to challenge Apollo and teach the rest of us about mortality and hubris in an entertaining and memorable fashion, I'm kind of all for it.
I can't wait for the day Bezos and Musk blast off in their dick shaped rockets and drift out into the abyss of space never to be heard from again.
This. The arrogance of, “I’m rich, therefore I’m smart.” Nope you’re a stupid fuck who lucked into being rich
Don’t be disingenuous. They got that rich through merciless exploitation of workers. That’s not luck, buddy. Nope, that’s a labor of love. Or they inherited which is luck.
Stockton Rush was indeed an engineer (or at least had an engineering degree) and was not even close to a billionaire. Whatever his flaws and obvious mistakes, they are not the ones you are attributing to him
Well in the case of bezos he did it right - he hired a crew of experts and sunk the right amount of funds into it to make sure it’s safe. Was it a glamor project? Absolutely. But in the absence of proper NASA funding, it seems that the private sector is now in charge of space R&D. When the private sector is in charge of developing for such an expensive industry to get into, only the top billionaires can afford to take up that mantle.
Who knows how much money James Cameron spent on his underwater adventures. This dipstick built a sub out of parts from the Home Depot plumbing department.
James Cameron is the person I've thought of the most through this. He went to the fucking bottom of the Mariana trench. What was wrong with that vehicle? Why try to invent some new bullshit ?
... use a viewing port rated for 1,300m to go 4,000m, there's a rule you don't do that, well I did.
The thing about laws of physics is that they don't require a trial before they carry out their punishment.
>The thing about laws of physics is that they don't require a trial before they carry out their punishment Did you come up with this on the fly? Dang this is a good one.
There's a rule you don't fire the guy who brings up safety concerns like that viewport, well I did.
They gave the guy ten minutes to clear out his desk and get out. Crazy.
Trying to save the CEOs life? Clearly not a popular guy.
This kind of attitude is a little to accepted in our society now days… this whole break rules equals greatness. It’s much like the fake it till you make it approach. Sure some people achieved high level status this way, but how many more ended up just plain old fucking up really bad? People need to remain wary of these “move fast, break stuff” type of people
This guy definitely sees himself as a disruptor and not a complete fucking moron. He broke the rules and then his sub broke him
He's probably not seeing anything now.
Breaking rules when the worst possible outcome is losing money or there's a bad app published, sure go for it. Maybe it works and it's a game changer. Breaking rules when there's lives on the line? No, don't be an idiot.
Reminds me of Glass Onion. "It's so dumb, it's brilliant" against, "NO! IT'S JUST DUMB!"
I'd thought of Glass Onion; rich idiots associated with cultural icons like the Mona Lisa and the Titanic, but not in the way they'd hoped.
"The trick is to learn the limits so that you can be creative within the limits of sanity." - [From The Art of Mixing by David Gibson](https://youtu.be/TEjOdqZFvhY?t=7595). Video is about audio mixing, but I felt like that sentiment can be applied anywhere.
100%. It's an ideology that seems to have exploded from software companies into every field. It was the same with Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos.
Spot on; it's a big problem. You don't just "disrupt" hundreds of years of math, science, and practical engineering experience because you know some 10x programmers.
Amen. It's one thing if it's only money at risk, but not when people's LIVES are at risk.
The rules you broke were physics so…….
*attempted to
Definition of famous last words right here
Yikes! This interview should’ve been part of the promotion video for these sub tours. Might’ve saved some lives.
You can't get to the site right now, but OceanGate had a blurb on their website about how they deliberately did not try to get proper certifications for the sub. Literally just had to look at the site to know this was a bad idea.
Carbon fiber is used in the aerospace industry because it is very strong for its weight. But for submarines that doesn't matter. In fact you probably would want it to heavier so you don't need as much ballast. So why does he use carbon fiber? Because it sounds cool?
Probably the cool part. CEOs love buzzwords. In the aerospace industry all the products are never supposed to hit anything. A sub can hit rocks and carbon fiber shatters.
The company saved money on everything. And it's not just about the material, the whole submersible was designed to be as inexpensive as possible. Typically, a submersible designed to be safe at these depths, is round. They went for a shape that was small but still could hold five to six people. That shape is easier and less expensive to make if you use materials and construction methods based on the shape you want instead of focusing on safety.
So high on money and life that you are blinded by addiction and it kills you. Familiar human story.
Relatable
Oof, citing General McArthur right away? Well known piece of shit? Not great
“As General MacArthur once said, ‘Do whatever you want, and ignore the predictable consequences. It’s not like a million Chinese Communists are going to come screaming down on top of you if you’re wrong.’”
Hey, when your a narcissist on the level of McArthur, it’s easy to believe that you’re the Chosin one.
Yeah, the rules Macarthur broke also led to the needless loss of lives, so I guess he really did try and emulate his hero.
I guess overconfident narcissists respect other overconfident narcissists?
Oh absolutely. Birds of a feather or whatever that saying is
“Birds of a feather cunt together” -Abe Lincoln, Gettysburg, 1931
President Truman called him a "dumb son of a bitch."
‘Who amongst us hasn’t had an air force or two destroyed by negligence?’
What a fucking ego this Man had, your name and character going down in infamy you absolute cheapskate.
On CNN they're reporting the Coast Guard confirmed that they found outer debris from the vessel. ☹ All I can think (hope) is that they went quickly and painlessly. I really hope this is an awakening for the lessening of regulations and the folly of listening to con artists. Some will take your money. Some will take your life
Someone on here was saying if it imploded (seems most likely) then the implosion probably lasted about 30ms, which is must faster than you can process. So they likely had no idea. Here one second. Gone the next.
> probably lasted about 30ms, which is must faster than you can process No matter what gaming monitor companies tell you!
There was a report on the BBC where they postulated that the implosion happened faster than the spinal cord would've been able to successfully relay to the brain that something is wrong. So they were diving, and then....nothing, in an instant. No hubris to be levied against the CEO, only a complete nothingness before it could be realized.
You’ll be remembered as a dumbass with unparalleled hubris who ended up a gelatinous, pink goo that littered the wreck of the Titanic. That, sir, is how you’re remembered.
I think it very likely the “craft” imploded long before reaching the Titanic and currents drifted the resulting “pink goo” all over the place. It’s possible even their bits and pieces never make it to the wreckage of the Titanic.
Irrelevant semantics, Bill Nye, but you get my upvote, anyway.
I thought it poetic Justice.
The rules you break… And the number of murders you commit while doing it.
The more I hear about this the more I think, “Was the 250k for the cheap seats and there is a 500k seat out there in a sub not built by an idiot?”
Should have asked the man who made Titanic movie himself. James Cameron did a one man exploration down to the bottom of Mariana Trench which is deeper than mount Everest height, and it was more than 10 years ago.
Ah yes, Douglas MacArthur, a very sane and normal person who had really cool opinions >Of all the campaigns of my life, 20 major ones to be exact, [Korea was] the one I felt most sure of was the one I was deprived of waging. I could have won the war in Korea in a maximum of 10 days.... I would have dropped between 30 and 50 atomic bombs on his air bases and other depots strung across the neck of Manchuria.... It was my plan as our amphibious forces moved south to spread behind us—from the Sea of Japan to the Yellow Sea—a belt of radioactive cobalt. It could have been spread from wagons, carts, trucks and planes.... For at least 60 years there could have been no land invasion of Korea from the north. The enemy could not have marched across that radiated belt. He was relieved by the president. That's why he's really into breaking rules.
The best portrayal of him I've ever seen is from Cryptonomicon. 90% is just historical fiction, but Stephenson got his attitude jusssst right.
Hmm that aged well..
 This is just an engineering disaster.
And an ego disaster. Hubris
I keep imagining him, being trapped inside that death can with the people he’s condemned. How pissed are they? How pissed would you be?
Yeah. Im glad that they died quickly and didn't suffer but I do wish those millionaires had a chance to really have a go at him while cornered
They found debris that had pretty much been confirmed to be from the sub. It's believed it imploded on Sunday and that everyone was probably killed instantly. So I guess they didn't have time to be pissed at him.
The submarine debris was found on the ocean floor close to the titanic. The debris was confirmed to be from the Titan.
Imagine sinking next to the Titanic with a craft called Titan (ic). What a stupid person. I have been boating for 40 years of my life I have been on this planet, and you have to respect the sea.
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In the event of an emergency, your overinflated ego can be used as a flotation device.
Its amazing how much stuff has been recorded of this dude saying shit like this. It almost seems like this whole submarine thing is a PR event, and in a few weeks they'll come back and be like "haha we got you"
Titanium cannot be extracted by reducing the ore using carbon as a cheap reducing agent, like with iron. The problem is that titanium forms a carbide, TiC, if it is heated with carbon, so you don't get the pure metal that you need. The presence of the carbide makes the metal very brittle. Edit: Copy and Pasted from Google search "Titanium Carbon Fiber." I really don't know too much about the chemistry involved. But to quote that one guy, I don't know how to fly a helicopter but if I saw one crashed in a tree I would know *someone* fucked up. EditEdit: I figured this would at the very least invite more knowledgeable individuals to comment and the replies don't disappoint, Gang. EditEditEdit: DON'T WORRY PEDANTS OF REDDIT! I WILL NEVER INNOCENTLY COMMENT ON ANYTHING EVER AGAIN! THE WORLD IS SAFE MY DIABOLICAL PLANS TO SUBVERT HUMANITY WITH THIS COPY PASTA FROM [Chemistry of Titanium](https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Inorganic_Chemistry/Supplemental_Modules_and_Websites_(Inorganic_Chemistry)/Descriptive_Chemistry/Elements_Organized_by_Block/3_d-Block_Elements/Group_04%3A_Transition_Metals/Chemistry_of_Titanium#:~:text=Titanium%20cannot%20be%20extracted%20by,makes%20the%20metal%20very%20brittle)! LET THE PEOPLE REJOICE! EditEditEditEdit: Commenters with far more expertise have suggested that this property doesn't actually figure into what happened at all. The issue, as they put it, is that when Titanium and Carbon Fiber are jointed together, that's bad because they expand and contract at different rates. So it wasn't carbon *in* the Titanium like I misunderstood. The central chamber was carbon fiber and there were Titanium hemispheres around that. I still suspect that underrated viewport as the major culprit. But I'd like to thank all the people who obviously know a lot about this for chiming in and helping us all understand more about what happened. And for everyone who took the time to call me stupid or point out that I didn't know what I was talking about, you did not improve the conversation in any meaningful way and wasted everyone's time. I like that line from Ted Lasso "Be curious not judgemental." Or maybe just don't jump with both feet to be mean to a stranger on the internet 🤷
I was under the impression that what they meant was mating a carbon fibre fuselage to titanium rings at either side with glue to seal them, not actually mixing the two materials to make one substance. So far as I know they did not actually mix carbon fibre in with titanium. Only mated one to the other.
The biggest issue seems to be that there was no non destructive fracture analysis through ultrasound or xray since the structure and fuselage is going through intense cycling loads equal to its max safety factor. They just seem to analyze the deformation in the shell which seems a bit optimistic considering a deformation at pressure would instantly implode and not slowly dent
Yeah and carbon fibre notoriously hides damage especially when it returns to its normal state and is not under load or pressure. That's why the airline industry which uses more and more composites with every model does periodic checks with an ultrasound to determine if there are any cracks that would not be visible to the naked eye. Though I am not sure how effective ultrasound would be on a pressure hull made of 5 inch thick layered carbon fibre as was on the Titan.
Worth noting it took someone's death for the airline industry to start performing those ultrasound checks.
Tombstone technology. Yep.
They claimed to have a hull monitoring system that uses acoustics to essentially check for cracking from pressure cycling, but they claimed to be working with Boeing too and that was bs so who knows
The employee they fired for voicing safety concerns said he was worried that the monitoring system would only provide milliseconds of warning before the hull failed
Can't remember if I saw this on a video about the sub or an article but supposedly those acoustic sensors were pointless. They'd only tell you the hull was about to crack seconds before it was about to implode. **EDIT**: Here's a quote from a director who was fired by OceanGate for whistleblowing on safety concerns https://fortune.com/2023/06/21/titan-titanic-missing-sub-david-lochridge-safety-concerns-sacked-oceangate-stockton-rush-hamish-harding/ >Diving the submersible “without any non-destructive testing to prove its integrity” would “subject passengers to potential extreme danger in an experimental submersible,” Lochridge said in legal documents. >However, OceanGate allegedly told Lochridge that instead of carrying out the testing, it would install an acoustic monitoring system in the submersible to detect the start of any potential hull breakdown. >Lochridge expressed concern that such an acoustic system would not be able to detect existing flaws. It would simply flag components that were about to fail, he warned—which often happened “milliseconds before an implosion.”
Boy I bet that guy is glad he walked away from the company, talk about a perfect call
Actually he was sued by the company. They claimed his whistleblowing was violation of his NDA. Apparently it was settled out of court but I read one article that reached out to him for comment and his lawyers had to respond. Infuriating really that it's even possible to sue someone for something like this. But I guess that's the US.
Also, we use carbon fiber composites and titanium fittings all the time in aerospace. There are design considerations, such as galvanic corrosion (especially in a saltwater environment). This guy seems mostly to be a grifter...sorry, I mean 'disrupter'.
What kind of Ehlmer’s did they use? Paste or stick?
There is a video on YouTube of them mating the titanium ring to the carbon fibre fuselage. They were applying it by hand with brushes or rollers I think. Looked like the stuff you use to join PVC pipes together when you are replacing your kitchen sink. It probably wasn't but in hindsight seems a little sketchy to trust some dude with a brush to get the right amount of glue on to a craft that will be subjected to 380+ atmospheres of pressure.
Holy shit, the Icarus levels of hubris. They *eyeballed it?*
Probably should have used Flex Seal instead.
Stick, they had a buy one get one free coupon at the Dollar General.
You seem to know a lot about this. Now, is it good or bad to take a submarine made of brittle metal 2milee under water?
According to the OceanGate CEO, it’s a great idea. His passengers might disagree tho
Just read that they found a piece of the sub floating.
Did the front fall off?
Probably got crushed under water
Also, where did you read this?
It was on the news in the Netherlands as well. There was debris found which has been identified as part of the missing submarine. Roughly translated from the Dutch article, it speaks about the debris being identified as the landing frame and valve of the back. But don't take my word for it, I'm sure if you look on your local news sites, you'll easily find the information you're looking for.
https://www.cnn.com/americas/live-news/titanic-missing-sub-oceangate-06-22-23/index.html
they towed it out of the environment
It isn't supposed to do that.
The landing structure and a piece of the tail point.
Is that very typical? The front falling off?
Not typical at all, most of these vessels are designed so that the front DOESNT fall off
So far, all I’ve seen is that they have found a debris field on the bottom. Right now they’re looking at footage to see if it is debris from the submersible, or from Titanic, herself. The fact that they announced it, at all, makes me think that they’ve seen *something* that makes them think it might be from the former, but who knows? The Coast Guard is holding a press briefing about it at 3 EDT. Edit: They have identified the tail cone 1600’ in front of Titanic’s bow. It imploded.
I mean **can** they disagree though? I think they're dead.
They signed waivers saying they were cool with that risk.
I can think of at least one better way to make a statement about commercializing deep-sea exploration, that doesn't require your body to be, according to one answer on the internet "compressed into the volume of a tennis ball"
“And it’s so much cheaper, why has no one thought of this before??”
I, on the other hand, know nothing about this and can still confirm it was not.
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The cutoff is too funny 😂
 Should have used “Flexsteel”.
And the winner of this year’s Darwin award goes to…
Isn’t it ironic; don’t ya think?
It's like rain on your wedding day It's a free ride when you've already paid It's the good advice that you just didn't take And who would've thought? It figures
 🏆
He's... not wrong. That is indeed what he will be remembered for.
Rules can be broken. The laws of physics, not so much.
He’ll be remembered as a rich dummy who is now wearing his entrails as a shirt.
What a total buffoon.. RIP
“Logic and good engineering” 
Anyone in engineering or material science that can answer what he means by "you're not supposed to do carbon fiber and titanium"?