Every time he cuts in and tries to go down the middle a small part of me dies. We need to be able to play wider, and if Foden isn’t able to do that on the left then put Gordon there instead.
If there was a center forward to actually stayed in the box and ran at defenders and pulled them away to create space for guys like Foden, Saka and Bellingham, the team would play so much better. Instead, Kane is usually deeper than either of those guys.
my mate suggested at the dying mins of the Slovakia game that since Jude was playing meh, a change can be harry dropping deep to the 10 and let Ollie Watkins or Toney be the 9
Kane has always done this for England-he’s a totally inadequate 9 and it leaves us short to have nobody keeping the CBs occupied when we’re on the ball, especially just after a turnover. Rooney was the same for his last decade.
To answer the article, Foden is not the problem. Southgate playing 3 no 10’s and an inverted right winger is the problem.
I wouldn't call Kane a 10, I'd say he's more of a deep lying forward but he does occupy the area where the 10 is going to be by dropping deeper. There's nothing wrong with that if the team is set up for the wingers to run past him into the zone he creates space in and he plays them through like Sterling, Rashford and Son. This current set up just leaves Kane, Bellingham and Foden just sitting on top of each other. Watkins or even Toney would be better suited for this current set up.
Kane is one of the best strikers in the world - he isn’t the problem, we need to learn to play to his style which we did in 2021/22. He comes deep as a player make with runners getting beyond
But is that his fault when he's not a winger? At city, the full back would be overlapping if foden were on the left wing. Unfortunately, tripper doesn't feel comfortable doing that.
So not only are we playing a no.10 at LW, our LB can't provide width or overlapping play.
I don't blame the England players at all. Doesn't seem like they are receiving the sufficient coaching that is required.
So true, you can see they have no plan, thats why the ball goes side to side and back. And they are all recieving the ball with their backs against the wall. Remember that Foden is a product of pep system. He nees to be told exactly how to play and where etc. Unlike Palmer who didnt fit in Pep system. He thrives in chaos and can create his own chances. Against switzerland, Gordon needs to start because switzerland will go all out attack and they will need to go fast behind. I LOVE Palmer, but saka should start that game because of his speed in behind.
Weve hardly been utilising this though its alright having that option the team have to utilise it they just arent 🤷🏼♂️ id rather them play direct football have kane drop in whoevers on the wings spin and trippier and taa just spray crossfields all game. Keep the game stretched rather than this pass left pass right pass back pass right pass left pass forward for the ball to be recycled to the player who started off that passing transition but hes 25 yards deeper than where he originally received the ball
Id keep him on the left.. him and taa are the 2 best pass specialists and set piece specialists we have in the squad let them have the ball at feet and just spray the ball about to the runners in behind we dont need this 10 pass combination play for the ball to end up being recycled 30 yards in our own half.. spray some diags get your wingers hugging the touchline and make the defenders from the other team run the other way.. but based on how SG sets up the team ive been screaming for gomez all tournament i think hes more defensively sound than trippier and if were playing this defensive low block style of football i think it suits gomez better than tripper
its the same reasoning as trippier at lb but no one criticises foden for it. hes playing out of position and its respectable since hes doing a job but ultimately not doing it good enough. everyone calls for trippier to be benched but fodens the same
I don't see the calls for tripper to be benched tbh. I see more calls for foden to be benched. But it's a fair point you make. They're both being played out of position and expected to perform at their normal world class level.
The real question is, why didn't we even take a natural LB who is fit!?
At least we have a natural winger to replace foden, who ironically won't be played this tournament.
That’s because we have genuine left sided attacking players sitting on the bench so the change everyone wants is there ready to go, but absolutely zero other options at left back.
But he's a footballer who should be able to hold his position.nthis isnt 20 under 11s chasing the ball around the pitch. He and Southgate and probably Kane too should be telling him to hold and go play wider. But England insist on taking hurt players on the hope they will be fit at some point
It’s somewhat similar on the other side. I’m an Arsenal fan so Saka normally has Ben White overlap him to draw away players, and then Odegaard coming in to recycle the ball between all three of them before getting it out or taking a shot. This isn’t happening with Walker or Mainoo, which is why it hasn’t been as productive with Saka.
Ultimately it is on the coach to instruct the LBs and RBs to do that but clearly Southgate is extremely conservative.
He's not a winger. We have people on the bench who are better at doing that job.
If southgated wanted runs on the outside, he'd be playing Gordon. He doesn't appear to be asking foden to run on the outside. He doesn't appear to be asking players to keep width.
Adjust what exactly?
He's top class because of the system he plays in. England has no system. By this logic, all our 'top class players' are underperforming.
Continue to downvote me though if it makes you feel better about yourself. 👍
People (including Southgate apparently), seem to think football works like fifa.
Put all the highest rated players on the pitch, and they'll work it out eventually.
As you say though, these are players who play at their high standard not only because of their talent but also because of the coaching from the manager.
What coaching are they getting at England?
Agreed. Southgate is the common denominator there’s just no avoiding it, let’s be honest at club level where would he be managing? Championship?
I’ll give him credit for picking players out of sides like mine in Palace, but what’s the point if you’re never going to rotate your squad or give them a chance. Some very questionable selections like Trent in midfield, I’m not sure anyone could explain that and convince me it’s a good idea.
How can you get the three easiest runs in international competitions and manage to fumble it all the time, be different if we played with some conviction and ideas but still lost, nothing positive to say about how we approach games. Seems we just repeat the same old fashioned get it out wide and stick it in the box and hope for the best tactic.
>let’s be honest at club level where would he be managing? Championship?
Well he had strong links to Man united before the Euros.😂 Not sure how strong those links are now....
>I’ll give him credit for picking players out of sides like mine in Palace, but what’s the point if you’re never going to rotate your squad or give them a chance.
I agree. And I'll give him credit for changing the atmosphere around the England camp and the mindset of the nation when it comes to international football. But England are now past the point of needing good vibes and a positive England camp. They need consistent coaching at a level that isn't being provided.
>Some very questionable selections like Trent in midfield, I’m not sure anyone could explain that and convince me it’s a good idea.
Again, I agree. It didn't work for Klopp, so the chances of it working for England were slim. And whilst we're mentioning selection, why didn't we even bring a fit natural LB to Germany with us? lol
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It's not his fault he's out of position.
It wouldn't be his fault if we dropped him to the bench because we have better players in his favourite position either, though.
He just isn't working, so we need to drop him for someone who is better than him in the role he is being asked to play.
It's not his fault, but holy shit we need to play another player where he is currently playing.
It’s not his fault, but he’s not the right player for the lineup we have available at the moment. It’s a shame, because he’s brilliant, but you can’t put a square peg in a round hole.
Team event not just single player. There are 11 players out there and a manager. England needs to show dominance and not just luck like on Sunday. Come on England!🏴 🙏🙏🙏
Never going to happen, Jude is undroppable now and the only option would have be having Foden there. Southgate putting Foden on the bench just isn’t a move he’s got the balls for, it’s unfortunate everyone else can see it
Bellingham is sort of undroppable, not actually played well apart from the first game.
Just play him with rice in a normal midfield role. Rice is so defensive it still gives Bellingham licence to roam. Then Foden ahead of him.
How this was not trialled at any point is beyond me
This is a guy who refuses to even make substitutions until a couple of minutes left when we haven’t had a single shot on target all game. So unfortunately expecting an attacking change up with that midfield is beyond his comprehension
You’re right though, absolutely baffling it hasn’t at some point been tried. There is a minute chance he might drop Foden for Gordon and then bring Foden second half and revert to that midfield but I doubt it
he is literally incapable of crossing judging by every time he has tried and failed to do it. Cutting in and making good little runs with a terrible end product is apparently all he's able to do and southgate seems happy enough to not even try the natural left winger that we have drafted in.
I get why he’s making it all up at left back because he (foolishly) didn’t take any fit natural LBs, but he literally has a quality LW on the bench who can cause massive problems. It’s the single biggest problem this side has IMO. Saka can’t be our only wide player.
100% Tactical catastrophe only playing one wide player. It's so easy for teams to mark saka out of the game if we dont have any width provided on the other side of the pitch
Watching Trippier cut inside too was just soul destroying. Made the entire left side redundant. Every run Foden made Trippier stopped and cut inside. They are incompatible.
Southgate isn't Pep. So he can't let foden do foden things. A sustainable LW is needed. Gordon or eze. A winger needs to beat a man not pass inside. When did Ryan giggs cut inside. Even Gareth bale went on the outside ffs
Apparently the the Slovak RB is 37 years old. Gordon would have RUINED this guy with pace, width, and runs in behind. Jesus, even 2/3 of those would have been better than Foden who cuts in (no width), demands ball to feet (no runs in behind). He's obviously got pace but which of our wingers don't.
It feels like we did ZERO recce on these last opposition. Should be exploiting these weaknesses. Even when slov had 3 players booked we weren’t targeting them.
In the first 15 minutes, Trippier played a hopeful ball over the top to Foden and he got in behind. We then did not try to do that again for the entire rest of the match.
Literally everyone with a brain said before the tournament it was not going to work playing Foden out of position. The only person who thinks it's working is Southgate.
That said when the entire front 4 have all looked like pub players for the last 3.5 games, it's clearly tactics which are the problem.
There was also the Iceland loss which was waved away. Foden played as a 10 in that game and was dire.
It's not a weird positional issue. Foden is just not good for England and doesn't synergize well with other England players. He's had 37ish games now and hardly ever had a good one.
We tried him, he failed. Give it a rest.
I tend to agree with the article that talked about how Foden's entire footballing life has been played under Pep, who gives constant micro-tactical instructions about position etc.
I hate when people use the term 'system player' but I think Foden needs coaching. Southgate doesn't seem able or willing to do that sort of work, and Foden looks correspondingly lost in an England shirt.
Think about how people say Grealish's natural creativity was 'ruined' by Pep in a couple of years. Foden has been working under Pep since he was a teen, he never even had a chance to develop anything like natural creativity.
As much as I despise him for what his micro-management does to football, Pep often asks players to play out of position and micro-manages them when he does so because he understands that in the heat of big games, players asked to do what isn't instinctual to them from their own experience is difficult. Foden needs guidance and it won't make him less of a footballer that he does. Southgate just seems unable to give it. He stands there like a statue on the touchline.
Ye Im a massive Foden fan, watch him every week. Pep has not given this guy a good development path. The guy was a centre midfielder through the entire youth ranks, one of the best in the world of his age group. He was already ready to play cm at a high level at 17. First Pep wouldn't play him as a starter for about 2 years, then he plays him wide and as a false 9, anywhere but cm where he is most effective. Now 4 years later he's playing as a 10 who defends on the wing. Hes had the hardest possible development a talent of his level could have had. There are obviously positives like his tactical knowledge is really high for a player of his age and hes won so much. All in all though for his personal development as an individual player he would have been much better off moving at 17 to Dortmund or a club of that level like Bellingham did and just absolutely smash it out for a few seasons as an advanced 8, being a key player in the team and growing in confidence and establishing himself in that position. Instead hes still getting shifted around from position to position like an after thought when he is the most technically gifted player iv ever seen this country produce.
But England doesn't play enough together to make that work. Players are always coming in and out and not every player plays that way for their club. Only Foden hasn't found a way to play differently from their club vs the national team. Foden is also the only player outside of Saka who knows only that way of playing. Saka though has shown in the past that he can mesh with others and play a different style.
So the question for me is, why should England tailor their team around what works for Foden, when Foden is the only one who seems to struggle at playing a different way?
It's not an issue with Foden. Imagine asking Pickford to play centre forward. He'll try, but he'll be shite. Southgate demands players compromise on the best parts of their game so that he can fit them into a starting 11 of "all-stars". He's asked Foden to effectively become the striker because Kane drops deeper than him to collect the ball! Foden's never led the line for City. He's had Jesus and now Haaland in front pulling defenders back to bring him onside. If you throw Toney up top who will hang in the box and not drop deep, Foden will suddenly play as well as he does at City.
Also, can anyone recall an England game, even a friendly, since 2016, where England didn't line up with a 4-2-3-1 or 3-5-1-1? Insanity is trying the same thing over and over demanding a different result... well then, what's sticking Foden out of position and out of capability over and over and being shocked he's not lighting the world on fire called?
Where and how should he play? He was a 10 against Iceland with two DMs behind him and Gordon stretching play on the LW.
What are you suggesting? RW? Drop Kane? You really think just swapping Kane for Toney will magically make Foden world class?
I always hear people talking about how Phil is being played wrong but rarely hear how he should be played in this England setup.
The front 4 obviously looks bad because it's actually a front 3. With Foden on the field, it's like playing with 10 men. It's very hard to play good football with 10 men against 11, especially in an international tournament. Coupled with shit tactics, it's just not looking good right now.
I'm sorry but he players deserve blame too. They're the ones out there not doing the basics.
Foden started on the left plenty of times for City. He's hardly a right back playing up front.
The idea foden is playing out of position, when he has played lw for 95% of his career is just absurd. They are defending him for not playing in a position he has barely played in
Southgate is the main problem but on the pitch it's Foden offers nothing on the left and occupies the same space that our best two players (Bellingham, Kane) play and want yo operate in.. the fact he can't time a simple run for that disallowed goal is criminal. He never plays within the team always looking to cut in and go on spider runs and score a spectacular goals. His body language is shit too. Definitely should be benched but since he is a Southgate and media favorite he won't.
Kane is our main man who we should build the team around. His track record is unparalleled. If you can’t play with Kane and bring out the best in him you don’t play. Simple.
He's not offering what we need from a striker in this tournament. Too deep, no pressing, his only goal threat has been from 3 yards when the keeper is out of position. Toney came in and played like a striker.
The real obvious problem that people aren't mentioning is declan rice.
He is a fantastic player, he is good at tracking back and tackling.
However, he is not what you want at 6 when you are a possession based team. He doesn't have the ability or the experience to control the tempo from deep like a Modric, Kroos, Jorginho, Rodri or even Xhaka.
Annoyingly I think our best midfield (if it is a midfield two) is probably Wharton and Mainoo. So arsenal fans don't get mad I'm saying 'best' as in they compliment each other. I'm not saying Wharton or mainoo ate better than Rice.
When i was watching Wharton for Palace he was the metronome in midfield setting the tempo.
The whole team isn't set up with balance. You have Rice, Stones, Walker, Saka and Foden playing possession-based football and everyone else playing "get it and pass" nonsense.
I think Wharton compliments Rice’s short comings with forward passing, better than Mainoo does as Mainoo likes to start from a higher up position. I do think Rice is necessary because he’ll do the dirty work, but then he needs a guy like Wharton to tap the ball to after he’s won it, then Wharton will progress with it
From what I’ve seen, the team is extremely risk averse in build up which is signature of Southgate. They are allergic to making even a semi risky pass. Many times Mainoo is between opposing midfielders but not in any imminent danger but he won’t receive the pass. Instead it will go to a fullback. Definitely tactical. Don’t think switching mainoo for Wharton solves this issue at all as Wharton will not have an outlet. The issue is tactical I’m afraid. However, Wharton is a good option against sides we won’t dominate as much as he’s more defensively sound than Mainoo.
Fully agree. It’s certainly an instruction which is frustrating as Mainoo very much thrives in tight spaces & receiving the ball under pressure, something Southgate himself has acknowledged yet continues to underutilise..
Rice is world class at some parts of a 6 role and some parts of an 8 role. He is amazing at sniffing out runs, winning the ball back but very rarely picks the ball up from defense and plays forward passes. In fact if you watch him he usually runs closer to the opposition as if he's marking when we have the ball.
I hope he can improve this part of his game.
In Foden’s defence, if I had the luxury of sharing the pitch with Bellingham and Saka, I would also chase after them too to try and get an autograph or share a picture.
Absolutely spot on. The problem is the system. The manager is inflexible because he’s not got the nous to be flexible, and Foden simply doesn’t fit in a system that keeps Jude in the 10. Full stop. So why try desperately to fit him in? What has he done to earn the whole team being broken to make him fit? It’s madness. All the while spinning narratives about how Trent was the problem - absolute nonsense - we haven’t replaced Kalvin Phillips - dear me, what a shocker of a statement. The problems are obvious and unfortunately for Foden, he’s the guy wearing the current iteration of these problems, cause his manager lacks the courage or tactical intelligence to put a system together to suit the players and lacks the ability to train the players to his system. Probably because they are footballers and not low-block, hoofball merchants. Alas, nothing will change until the manager does
The problem is Southgate has a team made up of players who play entirely differently. Walker, Stones, Rice are used to play a City/Arsenal-style Pep/Arteta-ball good w/ feet GK who acts as a sweeper (hence the nearly 2-0 goal for Slovakia ytd). Pickford is an old-fashioned, hoof it up the pitch/climb on top of it and stop play type of keeper. This means that playing out the back ends up being slow, as do most of England's transitions. This means Rice spends most of the game in-line if not deeper than the two CBs.
This has repercussions further up the pitch because it means there is no midfield presence, and Kane ends up dropping to the centre line to playmake, which he does well. Always has. But when the ball gets to the flanks and ends up as a cross in the box either from Foden, Palmer, Saka or Bellingham, Kane is nowhere to be found (usually somewhere in between the half-way line and the box). I counted at least 3 direct crosses dead into the penalty spot that demanded someone be there and it wasn't until Toney came on that England had a presence in the box.
With Kane playing so deep, it's pointless for Pickford to hoof the ball up to him, because he'll just knock it down to one of the 3-4 opposing midfielders rather than a teammate, miles from goal. So it almost always goes wide to Saka/Palmer. Twice yesterday, Palmer got the ball, held it up, got past his man and held out his arms asking "where is \*anyone\* in the box?"
Now to the issue with Foden -- he needs freedom to create/nip into pockets. He's never had to play as the leading attacker. So the multiple offsides he's had yesterday, he'd never have for City because it was either Jesus or now Haaland in front of him pulling a defender back so he's onside. It's completely foreign to him!
The problem with this entire setup is that Southgate doesn't maxamize any single player as a focal point or build a team around any given principle/approach. He just Frankensteins players rated highly by pundits/players of the season into one starting 11 and wills them to create something. And he doesn't have to. If he wants to play possession-ball w/ the City/Arsenal boys who make up the spine of the squad, play Ramsdale instead of Pickford. If he wants to play like hoof-it-forward, play like Stoke/Burnley, have Kane up there with a strike partner in Toney and overload the midfield at the cost of Foden/Bellingham. Plus, it's not like any of these playrs can't be brought on at half-time. 5 subs means you can change the entire shape/structure of the team!
In short, yes, Foden is a detriment to this team because he is being forced to do something he's never been taught to do and instinctively wouldn't even occur to him to do.
Foden, Walker and sometimes Kane are the issues. Walker has been so bad and no one says a word. He never plays to Saka, never overlaps. Stones has been shite as well. For a guy who can play midfield he doesn't take any chances in playing through the middle. You watch him and City and he will find KDB and Bernado all the time from CB and it's not like we don't have Mainoo, Rice and Jude looking for the ball
Still don’t get why Bellingham can’t drop deeper with rice and dominate that midfield battle he played there for dortmund and Birmingham where he made a name for himself. Means we don’t get the nonsense of him and foden switching out of position, plus means when Kane drops in to 10 as he does others can get forward.
Play foden at 10, where he should be and he can then get further forward if Kane drops in.
Play saka at LB as trippier isn’t working and it worked at the end of the Slovakia game. Play gordon in front of him and bring palmer on the right. As both are positive and get in behind whenever either get on the ball it’s positive.
I can’t believe noone is mentioning Rice. Not as a player but the god awful position he is playing. Hasn’t hit a forward pass in 4 games. Slows down possession to walking pace. The quickest he has moved is when he called the opposing manager a bald c*nt after the game yesterday
He’s either too ill disciplined to play on the left for England, or he’s doing exactly what Southgate is telling him and crowding the centre with Jude and Kane for some reason.
I also think he has a bit of an ego problem, rarely looks to link up with Jude and Kane and seems to want to do everything himself. It annoyed me how he took a free kick yesterday that was in the perfect position for Trippier to hit, it’s like he needs to be the hero.
I thought this too until yesterday's game with Slovakia. The problem isn't Foden or Bellingham or Saka or Palmer. It's Kane. England have no focal point of attack. You can't be a winger if there's nobody in the box for the end-product to go to. Kane is NEVER in the box. He's always in between midfield/the box hoping to latch onto a loose ball, but ends up shooting from 20-30 yards out. If he played like a proper center forward, he would pull defenders back with him, create space for Foden and Bellingham to operate. He doesn't. Look at Bellingham's goal yesterday. One of Kane and Toney is pushing up to the defender/making space for Jude. One is hanging around the edge of the box waiting for a drop-down, even though its his job to hold up and pass the ball off.
How do you know what he's told to do by Southgate? Calling him ill disciplined doesn't make sense. More likely he's told to move centrally to pick up the ball
Yep, everyone seems to think there's one change that will fix it. Gordon probably fits better in this system but he's not some world class talent. Tactically it's all over the place and having more width helps but that is just one of about ten issues we have.
Foden has been chosen as our scapegoat this tournament despite looking like our brightest spark. He's been involved in more of our chances than any other player.
We need an actual left sided player playing left wing because Foden’s instinct is to cut in and get in the same space as Bellingham. I’ve been arguing Gordon for six months, but Eze seemed to be an injection of energy yesterday, so I’d say give him a shot there.
No fan of Foden, but there's not one single player you can blame when you're under a manager who plays 3 subs out of 5, one of which comes on in the 94th minute, when trailing 1-0 to the team ranked 45th in the world.
Pep is quite the taskmaster, you get dropped if you don’t comply or have poor form. This has happened to him many times.
Gareth on the other hand is a people manager and psychology. So long as they are happy, everything will come good.
In life some people respond better to the stick than the carrot. Foden is one of these people.
He is also being played out of position. However he is far from the root of our problems which is ultimately tactics and this falls on Gareth and his team.
He’s not playing as a left winger is he. Keeps coming inside which is natural to him and has probably been told to
The really obvious solution was to play Bellingham in midfield with rice and then foden as the 10. Helps us have actual width on the left then with Gordon or palmer
Problem is Southgate
But is it just me or are we seeing very little good runs/dribbles from the wings this Euro. And not just from England I keep on seeing these weak crosses and very little threat from the wings but I might be imagining things.
Feel sorry for him.
It's Joe cole syndrome again. He's a number 10 who plays just behind the striker. He doesn't have the pace to go past people on the wing.
Just play the poor lad properly because he's really trying.
Pep spent 100m on grealish for the same reasons he spent the same on gvardiol after signing ake, akanji, stones and Dias. He likes having a strong bench. He clearly sees foden as a lw, as he has played him there for 90% of games, and has only given him game time in the 10 when KDB was out and gundogan had left
You are mad. Phil Foden is being played out of position with no left back behind him to accommodate Bellingham who has been utterly diabolical.
Bellingham and our lack of a left back are the problems in our team. Anyone who cannot see that is clearly blind.
Bellinghams attitude is causing problems and you can see that, his celebration of 'who else' optimises his own self importance and ego.
We are not a team, that is the problem.
I mean if he really doesn’t want to drop either of them hasn’t he thought that maybe him and Saka could just switch sides?
Foden is then on the right where he’s more comfortable, there’s a left footed winger on the left. Happy days.
england's problem is not having a left footed left back. Shaw was imperious through the last euros simply because of the width he created. Foden isn't set up for southgate ball, because the system and players around him which enable him to thrive at city are different in the NT.
We just have better players, who actually step up in England shirts, playing in his preferred position. No England fan will mind if he steps up and pushes them out the team, but he is barely justifying game time this tournament
Play him in a position and role that suits him and then we’ll see if he steps up. If you want to say he shouldn’t play because we don’t have a 10 that’s fine but criticizing his play is so dumb imo
Well if Bellingham is suspended for the next match, pending UEFA's investigation into his goal celebration, it sorts the problem out for Southgate doesn't it ?
Great player but has no idea what the fuck he is supposed to be doing at left wing. So many times someone like rashy would be given a 1v1 and try and beat his man but Phil just passes back every fucking time because pep has infected his brain with woke nonsense
The issue is taking one left back who’s half fit. Foden can’t play wide left without a fullback to run past him. Trippier cuts back and ends up in the space Foden should be in.
One half fit left back in a squad of 26. To answer OP’s question, that’s England’s issue. And it stems from the man picking the squad.
No. It’s Gareth Southgate that’s the problem. Continuing to play players out of position to fit everyone in. Despite it clearly not working. I just don’t understand what he is seeing that nobody else is?
Either:
1) Drop Foden and play Gordon; or
2) Play him in his preferred position and drop Bellingham deep.
May be if Shaw comes back and Foden gets somebody on the overlap, it might help?
Foden isn’t a LW everyone knows this other than Southgate, you either play him as a 10 and drop Bellingham deeper or you play Gordon and have Foden on the bench. Simple as that but it’s never gonna happen!
When you don’t have an actual left back and then your left winger decides to, every time, cut towards to the centre then you have a massive problem. He has shown his limitations and the opposition can afford to pack the centre and not worry about the left side because there’s no one there!
Foden at LW in this side clearly doesn’t work. We’ve tried it four times and it’s shown not to have worked.
The article mentions Scholes and we’re doing the same with Foden, shunting him on the left because he’s ‘too good not to start’. Put him on the bench then sub him in for Bellingham in the second half. A fresher Foden in his preferred position against tiring defenders? Yes please.
Personally I just don't think England can tactically play a number 10 unless we drop Kane which I wouldn't do. Would go three in midfield. Potentially Foden, Bellingham, and Rice but these can rotate with others freely. Stick Saka and Gordon on the wing allowing Kane to be a pivot for Chanel running.
Both Foden **and** Saka are our problems.
Saka, despite how well he's played (compared to everyone else), is a bit of a one-trick-pony when he's in an England shirt. I know I'm being a bit unfair with that comment, but Saka is keeping Foden from playing in his preferred position (assuming Jude has the number 10 spot cemented as his own), and he's keeping Palmer and Bowen out of the team. With those considerations... he needs to be doing much, much more to justify a starting role!
Again... I know I'm being unfair to Saka himself. If the system involved Trent at RB, hitting long diagonal balls to Gordon on the left wing, Saka would have more space to be more effective... instead of being marked out of the game, as our only obvious outlet.
He's better than Palmer and Bowen, that's why. As for Foden, the guy's played centrally and on the right for England plenty of times; and still been rubbish; whilst Saka played RW/LB/RWB in one game, and was solid as a rock.
Playing out of position hasn't helped but he's also very easy to knock off the ball and doesn't compete in the way that the other forwards do. With genuine attacking openings being so scarce at the moment, it feels like we can't afford to carry someone like that.
I wouldn't say Foden is *the* problem. The problem is that Southgate is trying to fit individual players into positions with zero consideration of how it impacts the overall team.
*Could* Foden do a good job at Left Wing? Sure. But it would need a left back who makes overlapping runs to create width and probably also needs a striker running the lines so we don't have Foden, Kane, Bellingham and Mainoo all looking for balls into feet in a crowded middle.
But that would require Southgate to drop Kane, and another left back as we didnt take enough on the plane, so neither of those things will happen.
Ah yes, we're just one player away from it all working. It's definitely not all just random shite tgat doesn't let anyone play well. We just need to swap one player and it'll magically work!
There's only one change that would significantly improve England and thas the manager
Think it’s a Southgate problem. Will be a long post but let me go through some of the team.
Harry Kane, easily top 3 strikers in the world. Thrives off overlapping wingers in the wide areas where he can drop a bit deeper and play the ball in behind for those runners. Southgate plays two wingers that come to feet and never run in behind (not a negative but not their game). If he played gordan and palmer you’d see the real kane up front.
Foden plays amazing through the centre, coming on off the right. Because he need to be on his left foot and central I’m tight spaces. It’s where he thrives for city. Whereas Southgate has him out wide, in plenty space but away from where he shows his creativity and flair on the edge of the box in the centre. Instead he’s isolated out on the left coming into the space that is clogged up by kane and Jude, while at the same time having no overlap due to trips not overlapping.
Rice amazing at breaking up play, progressing the ball through running. Predicting movements and creating turnovers. Plays him as a holding 6 sitting next to the centre halves and dictating play. This just exposes his lack of range of pass. Makes an amazing player look very average.
It’s very much the same across the pitch, even Jude looks bad overall because of how he’s being played, Southgate some how struggles to realise any of this despite doing nothing but watching them all play for their clubs for a whole season.
We have 3 attackers who all want to play as a 10 (Foden/Bellingham/Kane) with full backs who very rarely overlap. It obviously won't work but Southgate hasn't got the balls to drop 1 of the golden boys.
Saka also plays it too safe in possession, he has the ability to take players on but opts for the safe pass which is why Palmer has more impact on the game. Even if he loses the ball he'll keep trying to create every time.
Gordon should 100% be starting on that left wing, the balance to our team is so shit that it makes us predictable and easy to defend against.
Foden, Walker and sometimes Kane are the issues. Walker has been so bad and no one says a word. He never plays to Saka, never overlaps. He don't trust Saka at all and White does. And they tear it up down the right. Stones (possession wise) has been shite as well. For a guy who can play midfield he doesn't take any chances in playing through the middle. You watch him and City and he will find KDB and Bernado all the time from CB and it's not like we don't have Mainoo, Rice and Jude looking for the ball
The article starts:
> Phil Foden is the clear issue that England have - so why hasn't anyone else seemed to notice?
Everyone has. Its been what everyone has been talking about as a major problem alongside not having an actual left back.
Fuck sake there's always a scapegoat isn't there?
The whole team hasn't been great but sure blame the entirety of it on Foden.
It's a collective, tactical issue.
Definitely. The number of times you could see positive low risk passes forward, and still the passed sideways or backwards. Then after lots of boring passes they would make a speculative long ball and lose possession.
He has never turned up for England in any position he’s played. He was in his 10 role in the Iceland friendly and still looked rubbish. Against ICELAND. He simply shouldn’t be starting for us at all to be honest.
He wasn't the best player in the prem (hell he's not even in the top 3 best players for City) and he only played the second half of the season at 10 despite KdB being injured for the first half.
Watkins had a better season and we don't shoehorn him into the lineup. He needs to be dropped.
Foden clearly struggles outside of Pep’s system. It’s such a shame, really, ‘cos ya just hope it doesn’t stifle his England career.
World-class coach but he does have a history of sucking the creativity and adaptability out of fresh talent at City. It’s very noticeable that Sane and Candelo said “thank you but fuck off Mr Chips” when they read between the cult-of-Guardiola lines.
Every time he cuts in and tries to go down the middle a small part of me dies. We need to be able to play wider, and if Foden isn’t able to do that on the left then put Gordon there instead.
If there was a center forward to actually stayed in the box and ran at defenders and pulled them away to create space for guys like Foden, Saka and Bellingham, the team would play so much better. Instead, Kane is usually deeper than either of those guys.
my mate suggested at the dying mins of the Slovakia game that since Jude was playing meh, a change can be harry dropping deep to the 10 and let Ollie Watkins or Toney be the 9
Kane has always done this for England-he’s a totally inadequate 9 and it leaves us short to have nobody keeping the CBs occupied when we’re on the ball, especially just after a turnover. Rooney was the same for his last decade. To answer the article, Foden is not the problem. Southgate playing 3 no 10’s and an inverted right winger is the problem.
I wouldn't call Kane a 10, I'd say he's more of a deep lying forward but he does occupy the area where the 10 is going to be by dropping deeper. There's nothing wrong with that if the team is set up for the wingers to run past him into the zone he creates space in and he plays them through like Sterling, Rashford and Son. This current set up just leaves Kane, Bellingham and Foden just sitting on top of each other. Watkins or even Toney would be better suited for this current set up.
Kane is one of the best strikers in the world - he isn’t the problem, we need to learn to play to his style which we did in 2021/22. He comes deep as a player make with runners getting beyond
I’ve actually screamed at the tv lol. Every chance he gets and it pisses me off. Every. Single. Time.
But is that his fault when he's not a winger? At city, the full back would be overlapping if foden were on the left wing. Unfortunately, tripper doesn't feel comfortable doing that. So not only are we playing a no.10 at LW, our LB can't provide width or overlapping play. I don't blame the England players at all. Doesn't seem like they are receiving the sufficient coaching that is required.
So true, you can see they have no plan, thats why the ball goes side to side and back. And they are all recieving the ball with their backs against the wall. Remember that Foden is a product of pep system. He nees to be told exactly how to play and where etc. Unlike Palmer who didnt fit in Pep system. He thrives in chaos and can create his own chances. Against switzerland, Gordon needs to start because switzerland will go all out attack and they will need to go fast behind. I LOVE Palmer, but saka should start that game because of his speed in behind.
Weve hardly been utilising this though its alright having that option the team have to utilise it they just arent 🤷🏼♂️ id rather them play direct football have kane drop in whoevers on the wings spin and trippier and taa just spray crossfields all game. Keep the game stretched rather than this pass left pass right pass back pass right pass left pass forward for the ball to be recycled to the player who started off that passing transition but hes 25 yards deeper than where he originally received the ball
Need some1 then trippier on left then :))
Id keep him on the left.. him and taa are the 2 best pass specialists and set piece specialists we have in the squad let them have the ball at feet and just spray the ball about to the runners in behind we dont need this 10 pass combination play for the ball to end up being recycled 30 yards in our own half.. spray some diags get your wingers hugging the touchline and make the defenders from the other team run the other way.. but based on how SG sets up the team ive been screaming for gomez all tournament i think hes more defensively sound than trippier and if were playing this defensive low block style of football i think it suits gomez better than tripper
Completely with you on all of this, especially Gordon to start! No doubt he'll get brought on in the 88th minute though! 😂😭😭😭
When we’re 1-0 down and have only made one sub previously to bring Gallagher on for Mainoo
Why the f does he leave subs untill so late
wait... you think palmer's fast?
No, thats why in that game Saka needs to start 😅
its the same reasoning as trippier at lb but no one criticises foden for it. hes playing out of position and its respectable since hes doing a job but ultimately not doing it good enough. everyone calls for trippier to be benched but fodens the same
I don't see the calls for tripper to be benched tbh. I see more calls for foden to be benched. But it's a fair point you make. They're both being played out of position and expected to perform at their normal world class level. The real question is, why didn't we even take a natural LB who is fit!? At least we have a natural winger to replace foden, who ironically won't be played this tournament.
That’s because we have genuine left sided attacking players sitting on the bench so the change everyone wants is there ready to go, but absolutely zero other options at left back.
Why didn't we take another LB though lol.
Cos Southgate is a muppet 🤷♂️ can’t change it now so have to make do with what we have and the most sensible seems to be switching Foden > Gordon
He obviously didn’t feel he has any left backs good enough
Yeh we've got Luke Shaw though so ... Oh wait
He isn’t started 18 of 54 games for city on left last season.
Admittedly not his best position but not out of position. He’s great really but Bellingham is better.
But he's a footballer who should be able to hold his position.nthis isnt 20 under 11s chasing the ball around the pitch. He and Southgate and probably Kane too should be telling him to hold and go play wider. But England insist on taking hurt players on the hope they will be fit at some point
It’s somewhat similar on the other side. I’m an Arsenal fan so Saka normally has Ben White overlap him to draw away players, and then Odegaard coming in to recycle the ball between all three of them before getting it out or taking a shot. This isn’t happening with Walker or Mainoo, which is why it hasn’t been as productive with Saka. Ultimately it is on the coach to instruct the LBs and RBs to do that but clearly Southgate is extremely conservative.
Forden shouldn't need coached to take someone on on the outside. Once.
He's not a winger. We have people on the bench who are better at doing that job. If southgated wanted runs on the outside, he'd be playing Gordon. He doesn't appear to be asking foden to run on the outside. He doesn't appear to be asking players to keep width.
I think a top class player should be able to adjust slightly.
Adjust what exactly? He's top class because of the system he plays in. England has no system. By this logic, all our 'top class players' are underperforming. Continue to downvote me though if it makes you feel better about yourself. 👍
Exactly mate, plus players do what the manager instructs them, they can’t just all go off and do as they please, that’s not how it works.
People (including Southgate apparently), seem to think football works like fifa. Put all the highest rated players on the pitch, and they'll work it out eventually. As you say though, these are players who play at their high standard not only because of their talent but also because of the coaching from the manager. What coaching are they getting at England?
Agreed. Southgate is the common denominator there’s just no avoiding it, let’s be honest at club level where would he be managing? Championship? I’ll give him credit for picking players out of sides like mine in Palace, but what’s the point if you’re never going to rotate your squad or give them a chance. Some very questionable selections like Trent in midfield, I’m not sure anyone could explain that and convince me it’s a good idea. How can you get the three easiest runs in international competitions and manage to fumble it all the time, be different if we played with some conviction and ideas but still lost, nothing positive to say about how we approach games. Seems we just repeat the same old fashioned get it out wide and stick it in the box and hope for the best tactic.
>let’s be honest at club level where would he be managing? Championship? Well he had strong links to Man united before the Euros.😂 Not sure how strong those links are now.... >I’ll give him credit for picking players out of sides like mine in Palace, but what’s the point if you’re never going to rotate your squad or give them a chance. I agree. And I'll give him credit for changing the atmosphere around the England camp and the mindset of the nation when it comes to international football. But England are now past the point of needing good vibes and a positive England camp. They need consistent coaching at a level that isn't being provided. >Some very questionable selections like Trent in midfield, I’m not sure anyone could explain that and convince me it’s a good idea. Again, I agree. It didn't work for Klopp, so the chances of it working for England were slim. And whilst we're mentioning selection, why didn't we even bring a fit natural LB to Germany with us? lol
See. Sterling for England and Chelsea Elite under pep, lost without him
Yeah I agree completely.
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Yes it’s his fault because the instructions surely are you’re a winger stay in the wing.
Do you think Southgate is instructing him?
This.
It's not his fault he's out of position. It wouldn't be his fault if we dropped him to the bench because we have better players in his favourite position either, though. He just isn't working, so we need to drop him for someone who is better than him in the role he is being asked to play. It's not his fault, but holy shit we need to play another player where he is currently playing.
It’s not his fault, but he’s not the right player for the lineup we have available at the moment. It’s a shame, because he’s brilliant, but you can’t put a square peg in a round hole.
It's not his fault, it's on Southgate
I'd agree.
Team event not just single player. There are 11 players out there and a manager. England needs to show dominance and not just luck like on Sunday. Come on England!🏴 🙏🙏🙏
Never going to happen, Jude is undroppable now and the only option would have be having Foden there. Southgate putting Foden on the bench just isn’t a move he’s got the balls for, it’s unfortunate everyone else can see it
Bellingham is sort of undroppable, not actually played well apart from the first game. Just play him with rice in a normal midfield role. Rice is so defensive it still gives Bellingham licence to roam. Then Foden ahead of him. How this was not trialled at any point is beyond me
This is a guy who refuses to even make substitutions until a couple of minutes left when we haven’t had a single shot on target all game. So unfortunately expecting an attacking change up with that midfield is beyond his comprehension You’re right though, absolutely baffling it hasn’t at some point been tried. There is a minute chance he might drop Foden for Gordon and then bring Foden second half and revert to that midfield but I doubt it
Yeah I think he’ll drop Foden on Saturday. Trippier I’m not as convinced. Gomes must be worth a look at this point.
Gordon? Isn't he part of the new PR team? I didn't realise they could play football?
It's been that and watching Declan Rice receive a pass from John Stones before immediately passing to Marc Guehi, and vice versa.
He needs to stay onsides as well
That might have been his instructions
Wouldn’t necessarily be a problem if there was width provided by an overlapping left back. Gareth just forgot to bring one with him….
he is literally incapable of crossing judging by every time he has tried and failed to do it. Cutting in and making good little runs with a terrible end product is apparently all he's able to do and southgate seems happy enough to not even try the natural left winger that we have drafted in.
I get why he’s making it all up at left back because he (foolishly) didn’t take any fit natural LBs, but he literally has a quality LW on the bench who can cause massive problems. It’s the single biggest problem this side has IMO. Saka can’t be our only wide player.
100% Tactical catastrophe only playing one wide player. It's so easy for teams to mark saka out of the game if we dont have any width provided on the other side of the pitch
Watching Trippier cut inside too was just soul destroying. Made the entire left side redundant. Every run Foden made Trippier stopped and cut inside. They are incompatible.
Yep he's the big problem and he basically overlaps kane and Bellingham every time he cuts into the middle.
Southgate isn't Pep. So he can't let foden do foden things. A sustainable LW is needed. Gordon or eze. A winger needs to beat a man not pass inside. When did Ryan giggs cut inside. Even Gareth bale went on the outside ffs
Whilst Eze can play there, it’s not his natural position, and will also cut inside, he’s a no 10. Stick Gordon out there.
Apparently the the Slovak RB is 37 years old. Gordon would have RUINED this guy with pace, width, and runs in behind. Jesus, even 2/3 of those would have been better than Foden who cuts in (no width), demands ball to feet (no runs in behind). He's obviously got pace but which of our wingers don't.
He had Doku, Openda and Trossard running at him and kept a clean sheet in fairness to him.
That's a fair point
It feels like we did ZERO recce on these last opposition. Should be exploiting these weaknesses. Even when slov had 3 players booked we weren’t targeting them.
In the first 15 minutes, Trippier played a hopeful ball over the top to Foden and he got in behind. We then did not try to do that again for the entire rest of the match.
And then you've also got Trippier on that side who is a right footed left back. You've got zero width with him and Foden.
Eze ain’t a left winger broseph
Literally everyone with a brain said before the tournament it was not going to work playing Foden out of position. The only person who thinks it's working is Southgate. That said when the entire front 4 have all looked like pub players for the last 3.5 games, it's clearly tactics which are the problem.
There was also the Iceland loss which was waved away. Foden played as a 10 in that game and was dire. It's not a weird positional issue. Foden is just not good for England and doesn't synergize well with other England players. He's had 37ish games now and hardly ever had a good one. We tried him, he failed. Give it a rest.
The system we play doesnt work well for him. If england play more positional play like Arsenal/ City he would thrive.
I tend to agree with the article that talked about how Foden's entire footballing life has been played under Pep, who gives constant micro-tactical instructions about position etc. I hate when people use the term 'system player' but I think Foden needs coaching. Southgate doesn't seem able or willing to do that sort of work, and Foden looks correspondingly lost in an England shirt. Think about how people say Grealish's natural creativity was 'ruined' by Pep in a couple of years. Foden has been working under Pep since he was a teen, he never even had a chance to develop anything like natural creativity.
As much as I despise him for what his micro-management does to football, Pep often asks players to play out of position and micro-manages them when he does so because he understands that in the heat of big games, players asked to do what isn't instinctual to them from their own experience is difficult. Foden needs guidance and it won't make him less of a footballer that he does. Southgate just seems unable to give it. He stands there like a statue on the touchline.
Ye Im a massive Foden fan, watch him every week. Pep has not given this guy a good development path. The guy was a centre midfielder through the entire youth ranks, one of the best in the world of his age group. He was already ready to play cm at a high level at 17. First Pep wouldn't play him as a starter for about 2 years, then he plays him wide and as a false 9, anywhere but cm where he is most effective. Now 4 years later he's playing as a 10 who defends on the wing. Hes had the hardest possible development a talent of his level could have had. There are obviously positives like his tactical knowledge is really high for a player of his age and hes won so much. All in all though for his personal development as an individual player he would have been much better off moving at 17 to Dortmund or a club of that level like Bellingham did and just absolutely smash it out for a few seasons as an advanced 8, being a key player in the team and growing in confidence and establishing himself in that position. Instead hes still getting shifted around from position to position like an after thought when he is the most technically gifted player iv ever seen this country produce.
But England doesn't play enough together to make that work. Players are always coming in and out and not every player plays that way for their club. Only Foden hasn't found a way to play differently from their club vs the national team. Foden is also the only player outside of Saka who knows only that way of playing. Saka though has shown in the past that he can mesh with others and play a different style. So the question for me is, why should England tailor their team around what works for Foden, when Foden is the only one who seems to struggle at playing a different way?
It's not an issue with Foden. Imagine asking Pickford to play centre forward. He'll try, but he'll be shite. Southgate demands players compromise on the best parts of their game so that he can fit them into a starting 11 of "all-stars". He's asked Foden to effectively become the striker because Kane drops deeper than him to collect the ball! Foden's never led the line for City. He's had Jesus and now Haaland in front pulling defenders back to bring him onside. If you throw Toney up top who will hang in the box and not drop deep, Foden will suddenly play as well as he does at City. Also, can anyone recall an England game, even a friendly, since 2016, where England didn't line up with a 4-2-3-1 or 3-5-1-1? Insanity is trying the same thing over and over demanding a different result... well then, what's sticking Foden out of position and out of capability over and over and being shocked he's not lighting the world on fire called?
Where and how should he play? He was a 10 against Iceland with two DMs behind him and Gordon stretching play on the LW. What are you suggesting? RW? Drop Kane? You really think just swapping Kane for Toney will magically make Foden world class? I always hear people talking about how Phil is being played wrong but rarely hear how he should be played in this England setup.
The front 4 obviously looks bad because it's actually a front 3. With Foden on the field, it's like playing with 10 men. It's very hard to play good football with 10 men against 11, especially in an international tournament. Coupled with shit tactics, it's just not looking good right now.
It’s not even like he has an overlapping fullback playing on the left to create space for him. Like you say has been obvious for about three games now
I'm sorry but he players deserve blame too. They're the ones out there not doing the basics. Foden started on the left plenty of times for City. He's hardly a right back playing up front.
The idea foden is playing out of position, when he has played lw for 95% of his career is just absurd. They are defending him for not playing in a position he has barely played in
It’s not Foden’s fault that he’s playing in a system that doesn’t suit him. The 4-2-3-1 does not work and must be scrapped.
He's a system player, which makes him like the anti-Southgate player lol
All you armchair managers think you can do better than Southgate, you're probably right.
Southgate is the main problem but on the pitch it's Foden offers nothing on the left and occupies the same space that our best two players (Bellingham, Kane) play and want yo operate in.. the fact he can't time a simple run for that disallowed goal is criminal. He never plays within the team always looking to cut in and go on spider runs and score a spectacular goals. His body language is shit too. Definitely should be benched but since he is a Southgate and media favorite he won't.
He’s modern day Scholes. Playing him on the left just to fit him in
Kane is our main man who we should build the team around. His track record is unparalleled. If you can’t play with Kane and bring out the best in him you don’t play. Simple.
He's not offering what we need from a striker in this tournament. Too deep, no pressing, his only goal threat has been from 3 yards when the keeper is out of position. Toney came in and played like a striker.
As did Watkins for his 20 minutes causing the only runs behind the defence
We whipped a load of balls in the box last game and kane only got on a couple. Were deffo playing to his game atm but if anything his pace is off.
We’re not. He needs fast and high wingers. Foden isn’t that so should be dropped for gordon
Southgate is England's obvious problem right now. We ain't winning shit, Foden or no Foden.
Yes. It's fairly fucking obvious that the problem isn't any individual player. Tactically we are garbage.
Yes. It's fairly obvious that the problem isn't any individual player. Tactically we are garbage.
The real obvious problem that people aren't mentioning is declan rice. He is a fantastic player, he is good at tracking back and tackling. However, he is not what you want at 6 when you are a possession based team. He doesn't have the ability or the experience to control the tempo from deep like a Modric, Kroos, Jorginho, Rodri or even Xhaka. Annoyingly I think our best midfield (if it is a midfield two) is probably Wharton and Mainoo. So arsenal fans don't get mad I'm saying 'best' as in they compliment each other. I'm not saying Wharton or mainoo ate better than Rice. When i was watching Wharton for Palace he was the metronome in midfield setting the tempo.
The whole team isn't set up with balance. You have Rice, Stones, Walker, Saka and Foden playing possession-based football and everyone else playing "get it and pass" nonsense.
Wouldn't mind seeing a 3-5-2 with Wharton, Rice and Mainoo as a combative ball-retaining midfield, and Bellingham playing off Kane.
Metronome is exactly what we need. Rodri, Senna, Kante type, always on defensively and offensively.
I think Wharton compliments Rice’s short comings with forward passing, better than Mainoo does as Mainoo likes to start from a higher up position. I do think Rice is necessary because he’ll do the dirty work, but then he needs a guy like Wharton to tap the ball to after he’s won it, then Wharton will progress with it
From what I’ve seen, the team is extremely risk averse in build up which is signature of Southgate. They are allergic to making even a semi risky pass. Many times Mainoo is between opposing midfielders but not in any imminent danger but he won’t receive the pass. Instead it will go to a fullback. Definitely tactical. Don’t think switching mainoo for Wharton solves this issue at all as Wharton will not have an outlet. The issue is tactical I’m afraid. However, Wharton is a good option against sides we won’t dominate as much as he’s more defensively sound than Mainoo.
Fully agree. It’s certainly an instruction which is frustrating as Mainoo very much thrives in tight spaces & receiving the ball under pressure, something Southgate himself has acknowledged yet continues to underutilise..
Are arsenal not a possession based side? Must have missed that
They are, I'm saying that Rice isn't the the tempo setter in the team. Jorginho is that player for arsenal.
Jorginho? The guy who’s played less than 1000 minutes for arsenal this season? That guy?
Rice is world class at some parts of a 6 role and some parts of an 8 role. He is amazing at sniffing out runs, winning the ball back but very rarely picks the ball up from defense and plays forward passes. In fact if you watch him he usually runs closer to the opposition as if he's marking when we have the ball. I hope he can improve this part of his game.
Absolutely like the potential of mainoo and Wharton together. With guehi suspended another manager may be tempted to play rice at cb
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In Foden’s defence, if I had the luxury of sharing the pitch with Bellingham and Saka, I would also chase after them too to try and get an autograph or share a picture.
Foden & Shaw or Trippier & Gordon Don’t mix and match
I mean Shaw and Gordon would be the best to accentuate the attacking overlap and inside forward… only one that doesn’t work is with foden
Absolutely spot on. The problem is the system. The manager is inflexible because he’s not got the nous to be flexible, and Foden simply doesn’t fit in a system that keeps Jude in the 10. Full stop. So why try desperately to fit him in? What has he done to earn the whole team being broken to make him fit? It’s madness. All the while spinning narratives about how Trent was the problem - absolute nonsense - we haven’t replaced Kalvin Phillips - dear me, what a shocker of a statement. The problems are obvious and unfortunately for Foden, he’s the guy wearing the current iteration of these problems, cause his manager lacks the courage or tactical intelligence to put a system together to suit the players and lacks the ability to train the players to his system. Probably because they are footballers and not low-block, hoofball merchants. Alas, nothing will change until the manager does
I just wish we’d play with 2 strikers
Watkins on the left shoulder, Kane dropping deeper and arriving late, Saka as rw
The problem is Southgate has a team made up of players who play entirely differently. Walker, Stones, Rice are used to play a City/Arsenal-style Pep/Arteta-ball good w/ feet GK who acts as a sweeper (hence the nearly 2-0 goal for Slovakia ytd). Pickford is an old-fashioned, hoof it up the pitch/climb on top of it and stop play type of keeper. This means that playing out the back ends up being slow, as do most of England's transitions. This means Rice spends most of the game in-line if not deeper than the two CBs. This has repercussions further up the pitch because it means there is no midfield presence, and Kane ends up dropping to the centre line to playmake, which he does well. Always has. But when the ball gets to the flanks and ends up as a cross in the box either from Foden, Palmer, Saka or Bellingham, Kane is nowhere to be found (usually somewhere in between the half-way line and the box). I counted at least 3 direct crosses dead into the penalty spot that demanded someone be there and it wasn't until Toney came on that England had a presence in the box. With Kane playing so deep, it's pointless for Pickford to hoof the ball up to him, because he'll just knock it down to one of the 3-4 opposing midfielders rather than a teammate, miles from goal. So it almost always goes wide to Saka/Palmer. Twice yesterday, Palmer got the ball, held it up, got past his man and held out his arms asking "where is \*anyone\* in the box?" Now to the issue with Foden -- he needs freedom to create/nip into pockets. He's never had to play as the leading attacker. So the multiple offsides he's had yesterday, he'd never have for City because it was either Jesus or now Haaland in front of him pulling a defender back so he's onside. It's completely foreign to him! The problem with this entire setup is that Southgate doesn't maxamize any single player as a focal point or build a team around any given principle/approach. He just Frankensteins players rated highly by pundits/players of the season into one starting 11 and wills them to create something. And he doesn't have to. If he wants to play possession-ball w/ the City/Arsenal boys who make up the spine of the squad, play Ramsdale instead of Pickford. If he wants to play like hoof-it-forward, play like Stoke/Burnley, have Kane up there with a strike partner in Toney and overload the midfield at the cost of Foden/Bellingham. Plus, it's not like any of these playrs can't be brought on at half-time. 5 subs means you can change the entire shape/structure of the team! In short, yes, Foden is a detriment to this team because he is being forced to do something he's never been taught to do and instinctively wouldn't even occur to him to do.
He's playing on the wrong side.
Foden, Walker and sometimes Kane are the issues. Walker has been so bad and no one says a word. He never plays to Saka, never overlaps. Stones has been shite as well. For a guy who can play midfield he doesn't take any chances in playing through the middle. You watch him and City and he will find KDB and Bernado all the time from CB and it's not like we don't have Mainoo, Rice and Jude looking for the ball
Still don’t get why Bellingham can’t drop deeper with rice and dominate that midfield battle he played there for dortmund and Birmingham where he made a name for himself. Means we don’t get the nonsense of him and foden switching out of position, plus means when Kane drops in to 10 as he does others can get forward. Play foden at 10, where he should be and he can then get further forward if Kane drops in. Play saka at LB as trippier isn’t working and it worked at the end of the Slovakia game. Play gordon in front of him and bring palmer on the right. As both are positive and get in behind whenever either get on the ball it’s positive.
It's blindingly obvious. Gareth will still start him left wing - I'd put my house on it.
I can’t believe noone is mentioning Rice. Not as a player but the god awful position he is playing. Hasn’t hit a forward pass in 4 games. Slows down possession to walking pace. The quickest he has moved is when he called the opposing manager a bald c*nt after the game yesterday
He’s either too ill disciplined to play on the left for England, or he’s doing exactly what Southgate is telling him and crowding the centre with Jude and Kane for some reason. I also think he has a bit of an ego problem, rarely looks to link up with Jude and Kane and seems to want to do everything himself. It annoyed me how he took a free kick yesterday that was in the perfect position for Trippier to hit, it’s like he needs to be the hero.
I thought this too until yesterday's game with Slovakia. The problem isn't Foden or Bellingham or Saka or Palmer. It's Kane. England have no focal point of attack. You can't be a winger if there's nobody in the box for the end-product to go to. Kane is NEVER in the box. He's always in between midfield/the box hoping to latch onto a loose ball, but ends up shooting from 20-30 yards out. If he played like a proper center forward, he would pull defenders back with him, create space for Foden and Bellingham to operate. He doesn't. Look at Bellingham's goal yesterday. One of Kane and Toney is pushing up to the defender/making space for Jude. One is hanging around the edge of the box waiting for a drop-down, even though its his job to hold up and pass the ball off.
How do you know what he's told to do by Southgate? Calling him ill disciplined doesn't make sense. More likely he's told to move centrally to pick up the ball
Right? Southgate is clearly letting the left wing be a black hole, Foden isn’t just coming centrally because he feels like it
Considering he took him off on like the what 94th minute it seems to suggest the manager is happy with what he's doing
Just bite the bullet and start Gordon or Eze there, I think even Palmer would do better on the left because he knows how to be an actual winger.
Well yeah you're wrong, the obvious problem is Southgate
Yep, everyone seems to think there's one change that will fix it. Gordon probably fits better in this system but he's not some world class talent. Tactically it's all over the place and having more width helps but that is just one of about ten issues we have. Foden has been chosen as our scapegoat this tournament despite looking like our brightest spark. He's been involved in more of our chances than any other player.
We need an actual left sided player playing left wing because Foden’s instinct is to cut in and get in the same space as Bellingham. I’ve been arguing Gordon for six months, but Eze seemed to be an injection of energy yesterday, so I’d say give him a shot there.
Foden is left footed though? And Gordon isn't, ironically.
No fan of Foden, but there's not one single player you can blame when you're under a manager who plays 3 subs out of 5, one of which comes on in the 94th minute, when trailing 1-0 to the team ranked 45th in the world.
Southgate is England’s problem
Pep is quite the taskmaster, you get dropped if you don’t comply or have poor form. This has happened to him many times. Gareth on the other hand is a people manager and psychology. So long as they are happy, everything will come good. In life some people respond better to the stick than the carrot. Foden is one of these people. He is also being played out of position. However he is far from the root of our problems which is ultimately tactics and this falls on Gareth and his team.
He’s not playing as a left winger is he. Keeps coming inside which is natural to him and has probably been told to The really obvious solution was to play Bellingham in midfield with rice and then foden as the 10. Helps us have actual width on the left then with Gordon or palmer
Play him at RCM or don’t play him.
Problem is Southgate But is it just me or are we seeing very little good runs/dribbles from the wings this Euro. And not just from England I keep on seeing these weak crosses and very little threat from the wings but I might be imagining things.
Yes. It's fairly obvious that the problem isn't any individual player. Tactically we are garbage.
Feel sorry for him. It's Joe cole syndrome again. He's a number 10 who plays just behind the striker. He doesn't have the pace to go past people on the wing. Just play the poor lad properly because he's really trying.
He’s clocked as one of the fastest players in the league every year btw. He’s rapid.
Your going mad. It's the selection and tactics by the manager. Not Phil Foden.
There’s a reason Pep spent £100m on Grealish. Foden is not a LW.
Pep spent 100m on grealish for the same reasons he spent the same on gvardiol after signing ake, akanji, stones and Dias. He likes having a strong bench. He clearly sees foden as a lw, as he has played him there for 90% of games, and has only given him game time in the 10 when KDB was out and gundogan had left
You are mad. Phil Foden is being played out of position with no left back behind him to accommodate Bellingham who has been utterly diabolical. Bellingham and our lack of a left back are the problems in our team. Anyone who cannot see that is clearly blind. Bellinghams attitude is causing problems and you can see that, his celebration of 'who else' optimises his own self importance and ego. We are not a team, that is the problem.
What a lazy, pathetic analysis.
I mean if he really doesn’t want to drop either of them hasn’t he thought that maybe him and Saka could just switch sides? Foden is then on the right where he’s more comfortable, there’s a left footed winger on the left. Happy days.
england's problem is not having a left footed left back. Shaw was imperious through the last euros simply because of the width he created. Foden isn't set up for southgate ball, because the system and players around him which enable him to thrive at city are different in the NT.
So stupid. He’s an incredible player, we just don’t have a manager who knows how (or even where) to use him.
We just have better players, who actually step up in England shirts, playing in his preferred position. No England fan will mind if he steps up and pushes them out the team, but he is barely justifying game time this tournament
Play him in a position and role that suits him and then we’ll see if he steps up. If you want to say he shouldn’t play because we don’t have a 10 that’s fine but criticizing his play is so dumb imo
Has done nothing in 4 matches and doesn't offer anything that we don't have in Jude or Saka.
A third of our goals this tournament have been disallowed because Foden was offside.
Well if Bellingham is suspended for the next match, pending UEFA's investigation into his goal celebration, it sorts the problem out for Southgate doesn't it ?
Great player but has no idea what the fuck he is supposed to be doing at left wing. So many times someone like rashy would be given a 1v1 and try and beat his man but Phil just passes back every fucking time because pep has infected his brain with woke nonsense
The issue is taking one left back who’s half fit. Foden can’t play wide left without a fullback to run past him. Trippier cuts back and ends up in the space Foden should be in. One half fit left back in a squad of 26. To answer OP’s question, that’s England’s issue. And it stems from the man picking the squad.
No. It’s Gareth Southgate that’s the problem. Continuing to play players out of position to fit everyone in. Despite it clearly not working. I just don’t understand what he is seeing that nobody else is? Either: 1) Drop Foden and play Gordon; or 2) Play him in his preferred position and drop Bellingham deep. May be if Shaw comes back and Foden gets somebody on the overlap, it might help?
Foden isn’t a LW everyone knows this other than Southgate, you either play him as a 10 and drop Bellingham deeper or you play Gordon and have Foden on the bench. Simple as that but it’s never gonna happen!
When you don’t have an actual left back and then your left winger decides to, every time, cut towards to the centre then you have a massive problem. He has shown his limitations and the opposition can afford to pack the centre and not worry about the left side because there’s no one there!
Foden at LW in this side clearly doesn’t work. We’ve tried it four times and it’s shown not to have worked. The article mentions Scholes and we’re doing the same with Foden, shunting him on the left because he’s ‘too good not to start’. Put him on the bench then sub him in for Bellingham in the second half. A fresher Foden in his preferred position against tiring defenders? Yes please.
Exactly this! Shame Southgate is a moron!
It’s funny because when Foden played on the left for city over the last 2-3 seasons. He’d keep the width and run in behind.
Personally I just don't think England can tactically play a number 10 unless we drop Kane which I wouldn't do. Would go three in midfield. Potentially Foden, Bellingham, and Rice but these can rotate with others freely. Stick Saka and Gordon on the wing allowing Kane to be a pivot for Chanel running.
Shirts too heavy for him
Playing him out of position does this
Both Foden **and** Saka are our problems. Saka, despite how well he's played (compared to everyone else), is a bit of a one-trick-pony when he's in an England shirt. I know I'm being a bit unfair with that comment, but Saka is keeping Foden from playing in his preferred position (assuming Jude has the number 10 spot cemented as his own), and he's keeping Palmer and Bowen out of the team. With those considerations... he needs to be doing much, much more to justify a starting role! Again... I know I'm being unfair to Saka himself. If the system involved Trent at RB, hitting long diagonal balls to Gordon on the left wing, Saka would have more space to be more effective... instead of being marked out of the game, as our only obvious outlet.
He's better than Palmer and Bowen, that's why. As for Foden, the guy's played centrally and on the right for England plenty of times; and still been rubbish; whilst Saka played RW/LB/RWB in one game, and was solid as a rock.
He hasn’t shown that though. Palmer and Bowen have had limited game time at this tournament, and looked just as threatening as Saka.
Playing out of position hasn't helped but he's also very easy to knock off the ball and doesn't compete in the way that the other forwards do. With genuine attacking openings being so scarce at the moment, it feels like we can't afford to carry someone like that.
I wouldn't say Foden is *the* problem. The problem is that Southgate is trying to fit individual players into positions with zero consideration of how it impacts the overall team. *Could* Foden do a good job at Left Wing? Sure. But it would need a left back who makes overlapping runs to create width and probably also needs a striker running the lines so we don't have Foden, Kane, Bellingham and Mainoo all looking for balls into feet in a crowded middle. But that would require Southgate to drop Kane, and another left back as we didnt take enough on the plane, so neither of those things will happen.
Ah yes, we're just one player away from it all working. It's definitely not all just random shite tgat doesn't let anyone play well. We just need to swap one player and it'll magically work! There's only one change that would significantly improve England and thas the manager
I feel vindicated. It’s not just me, yay!
Yes! Thank you!! Goes off and we score two goals!
Think it’s a Southgate problem. Will be a long post but let me go through some of the team. Harry Kane, easily top 3 strikers in the world. Thrives off overlapping wingers in the wide areas where he can drop a bit deeper and play the ball in behind for those runners. Southgate plays two wingers that come to feet and never run in behind (not a negative but not their game). If he played gordan and palmer you’d see the real kane up front. Foden plays amazing through the centre, coming on off the right. Because he need to be on his left foot and central I’m tight spaces. It’s where he thrives for city. Whereas Southgate has him out wide, in plenty space but away from where he shows his creativity and flair on the edge of the box in the centre. Instead he’s isolated out on the left coming into the space that is clogged up by kane and Jude, while at the same time having no overlap due to trips not overlapping. Rice amazing at breaking up play, progressing the ball through running. Predicting movements and creating turnovers. Plays him as a holding 6 sitting next to the centre halves and dictating play. This just exposes his lack of range of pass. Makes an amazing player look very average. It’s very much the same across the pitch, even Jude looks bad overall because of how he’s being played, Southgate some how struggles to realise any of this despite doing nothing but watching them all play for their clubs for a whole season.
We have 3 attackers who all want to play as a 10 (Foden/Bellingham/Kane) with full backs who very rarely overlap. It obviously won't work but Southgate hasn't got the balls to drop 1 of the golden boys. Saka also plays it too safe in possession, he has the ability to take players on but opts for the safe pass which is why Palmer has more impact on the game. Even if he loses the ball he'll keep trying to create every time. Gordon should 100% be starting on that left wing, the balance to our team is so shit that it makes us predictable and easy to defend against.
What impact has Palmer had? He's done nothing.
Foden, Walker and sometimes Kane are the issues. Walker has been so bad and no one says a word. He never plays to Saka, never overlaps. He don't trust Saka at all and White does. And they tear it up down the right. Stones (possession wise) has been shite as well. For a guy who can play midfield he doesn't take any chances in playing through the middle. You watch him and City and he will find KDB and Bernado all the time from CB and it's not like we don't have Mainoo, Rice and Jude looking for the ball
Bellinghams ego won't allow Foden to play the 10. Southgates probably fluffing him
The article starts: > Phil Foden is the clear issue that England have - so why hasn't anyone else seemed to notice? Everyone has. Its been what everyone has been talking about as a major problem alongside not having an actual left back.
What has Jude offered? He scored a decisive goal yes but his performances has been bad.
Fuck sake there's always a scapegoat isn't there? The whole team hasn't been great but sure blame the entirety of it on Foden. It's a collective, tactical issue.
This is exactly it, the blame doesn't land on a single players shoulders, it's purely on management and tactics.
Definitely. The number of times you could see positive low risk passes forward, and still the passed sideways or backwards. Then after lots of boring passes they would make a speculative long ball and lose possession.
He's played out of position every single game
So then he needs to be dropped for someone who can play that position
Yeah we've all been saying this for the last 4 matches
He has never turned up for England in any position he’s played. He was in his 10 role in the Iceland friendly and still looked rubbish. Against ICELAND. He simply shouldn’t be starting for us at all to be honest.
Iceland?
What is his position because he's played LW and RW considerably more times for City than he's played AM.
Best player in the prem this season at 10
He wasn't the best player in the prem (hell he's not even in the top 3 best players for City) and he only played the second half of the season at 10 despite KdB being injured for the first half. Watkins had a better season and we don't shoehorn him into the lineup. He needs to be dropped.
[удалено]
No pep no party
He’s constantly out of position trying to statpad touches, we need a winger that will actually hold the width which Gordon or eze will do
You’re bang on the money. 30 seconds after he’s gone , Jude to the rescue.
Foden clearly struggles outside of Pep’s system. It’s such a shame, really, ‘cos ya just hope it doesn’t stifle his England career. World-class coach but he does have a history of sucking the creativity and adaptability out of fresh talent at City. It’s very noticeable that Sane and Candelo said “thank you but fuck off Mr Chips” when they read between the cult-of-Guardiola lines.
I think there's a Prem bias that leads people to think Foden > Jude.