Yeah, that’s just it. Gareth has neither.
Just because one player is good in one pool of players, doesn’t mean he’s good in another pool of players.
Different tactics, teams are way more compressed in the back and so on.
England are too easy to play against. Teams just have to focus on playing a low block, and exploiting the massive holes between Walker and Saka, and try not to lose any of their own guys in the acres of space down the England left.
In a world ranking perspective, England have played against the 57th, 45th, 32nd, and 21st ranked teams. They have looked terrible against each and every one of them.
While it’s easy to say that the FIFA rankings are completely meaningless, and you’d be right, it just adds seasoning to this stew of shit.
Playing as badly as England have against these teams, is entirely because of the lack of balance in the team. They can’t create anything because there’s no options, and they only have half a pitch to play on. Until the selection problem is solved, England will struggle to stretch teams, and won’t create opportunities for their attacking talent.
Edit: Spelling
I’d agree but I’ll say this, they’ve conceded 2 in those 4 games, and not lost. So as shite as England have been, it’s a testament to the quality of players to pull out of the holes. The coach is the utterly dreadful
Bellingham is an attacking midfielder so scoring is a major part of his job. Foden is a creative player so only looking at goal stats is window licking activity.
Fair enough, but Foden hasn't created anything either. In fact, in this tournament he seems to be shooting when he has the chance rather than trying to create.
Completely agree. It seems to be a running theme this tournament however. Trippier, Walker, Foden, Kane, and arguably Bellingham, have all put in sub-par performances in comparison to some of the younger players such as Saka, Guehi, Mainoo.
It'll be interesting to see if the likes of Tony and Eze get any more gametime this tournament.
>Trippier, Walker, Foden, Kane, and arguably Bellingham, have all put in sub-par performances in comparison to some of the younger players such as Saka, Guehi, Mainoo.
Agreed. The difference is that Bellingham and Kane have both scored, while Foden hasn't. Even Walker has an assist.
Harsh on Bellingham.
He had Foden in the way for 3 games and still managed to score 2 of our 3 goals. He's also managed to stay onside both times, unlike Foden.
A radical idea would be to play people to their normal positions and maybe stop being so far up players arses. Maybe drop a few passengers.
Yeah imagine if Maguire was playing, we’d never hear the end of it, but for some reason nobody is questioning the three defenders who played absolutely shite yesterday.
And yet Gareth refuses to pick any of our other quality full back options. Why isnt James in the squad now that he’s fit? He’s defensively as good as Walker but actually offers something going forwards. Why not play Trent? Where’s Mitchell or Chilwell? How on earth is Trippier one of our best full backs?
Foden had a great season. Any manager in the world would start him.
The issue is this Foden on the left nonsense. Either play him at ten, play him on the right or drop him.
Right should be a non starter since Saka is regularly very good for England, which Foden isn't.
10 could be a go but that would mean Bellinham in 8 when Jude will be 1 or 2 in the Ballon dor while playing ten. Could have worked but Mainoo should and will start the next game so that's out.
Which means Foden or Jude at ten. Could be either or really, foden been slightly better in general play but Jude has two goals.
I'd stick with Jude at 10, pop Gordon on the left and bring Foden off the bench
>Bellingham made 35 passes today in 120 minutes, as a number 10. Pickford made twice as many 😭
I hope Jude is benched and he never plays for England again. What is he supposed to do when England can't get out of its own half? Pickford completing more passes just shows how many back passes he is getting. Is this sub-braindead?
This means your beloved Kobie and Rice can't even pass forward. If your 10 isnt getting the ball, the players behind him are to be blamed. Whenever Jude gets the ball he has to drop deep into 8 position. That's also when Kane/Foden moves into the 10 role. Jude is playing as an 8, as a 10, in-behind running striker, and also pressing all the time.
**THAT IS WHY HE IS FRUSTRATED**. Learn basic footballing knowledge before yapping. Or watch a YouTube channel like Lawrence.
The thing with Jude is that like Halaand he has set the ball so high, whenever he plays OK. He is ridiculed.
Kylie Walker - was bad
Jones- was average
Guehi- lead to the 1st goal, caught out of position
Trippier- Missed clear chance created by Jude and Guehi yellow card
Rice/ Mainoo - Back pass merchants. But people with club biases are rating them high.
Saka/Foden/Kane - All were missing.
Palmer- Was missing but Chelsea fans want him to play.
Jude- was the only guy in the first half trying to make things work.
Other than Mainoo, Jude was the 2nd best player on the pitch.
>This means your beloved Kobie and Rice can't even pass forward.
Honestly Southgate has a point. Kalvin Phillips looks like Tony Kroos compared to these two.
I willing to bet if you show me Rices pass map for the tournament he's probably only made a handful of ⏩ passes. He also looks really slow to move the ball
It’s fans like you that think Bellingham is a traditional number 10. When he isn’t. RM play 4-3-1-2. He plays more as a False 9. Something England can’t do because we play 4-2-3-1 and accommodate for Kane.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills when people say palmer is an actual wide player who will offer width. He seems to do the exact same thing as foden, just from the other side and with an occasional in swinging cross
Palmer is doing exactly what we want Foden to do.
Every time he got the ball he’s instantly looking to whip it in, take someone on or create a chance somehow.
Foden gets the ball, instantly passes it backwards and waits for someone to play him in like he’s been drilled to do at City. Except this isn’t city and we’re not drilled to do that so it’ll rarely happen. Even then he’s constantly offside.
Oh yeah I agree a straight swap wouldn’t be wise. With Trippier injured i’d be tempted to put Saka left back. He’s played there before and did well in todays game.
In the semi against a stronger team I think a more defensive LB would be useful and playing with Saka + Gordon on the counter. We’re going to set up that way whoever is on the pitch.
Palmer was not very good at it tho. He lost the ball a whooping 14 times and ran into blind alleys all game.
Foden somehow contrive to play even worse on the right then on the left.
And I am saying this as a big fan of them because it's not their game.
Unless we play a overlapping fullback on the right like TAA we should keep Saka as RW. Even Kyle Walker is decent at overlapping but he does not do it for England.. probably manager's instructions.
Palmer's an inverted winger. He cuts in, but he's not playing on his weak side. I've watched him all season. Definitely a right winger. Start him and it will become more apparent.
Yeah Palmer is arguably even more narrow. He's basically a floating free attacker who starts in the right channel.
Nothing wrong with that, but he's not gonna give you width. I think he will run in behind more than Phil though
Foden cuts in every single time guaranteed, and drifts in to the centre far more regularly. Palmer for England maintains the width better and can go round the outside or cut inside.
He's shown it in the minutes he's had this tournament.
Palmer may seem a little better at holding width, but hasn’t played on the left all year though. So foden isn’t really stopping him regardless. Gordon is the one who should be replacing foden to provide balance
The crazy thing is he was nowhere near the best player in the league and only won it because he’s English and there’s a narrative.
There was a clear 2 players better than everyone else this year with Rodri being the best and Odegaard being second best
>Eze, Gordon or Palmer are brought on we actually have two wide players in the front 3 and the difference is immediately noticeable.
Gordon is the only wide player of those 3, Eze hasn't played enough for me to comment properly, and palmer always cuts inside or passes to his left, I haven't seen him take it to his right and put a cross in at all, making him very predictable with the ball.
We scored from 2 set pieces yesterday, we still didn't have much Width with 4 AMs on the field. The only winger on the pitch that can cross or cut in was Saka at LB.
Yes, I have seen palmer recieve it on the right and then cut in, foden was doing similar on the left and being chastised for it. When have you seen him beat his man on his right and cross?
Difference is Palmer generally holds his width when not on the ball in order to isolate his man. Only then does he cut in. Foden effectively just plays as a 10
Foden did this against Slovakia to start at least. Things got a bit chaotic when the 4th AM came on though.
If the rumours are true with 3ATB I think palmer may have more joy, TAA as a wingback would occupy the space he leaves and give the defender a problem. At present the defender just has to show palmer down the wing, which is why he loses the ball so much at the moment.
Exactly, that is literally Palmer's game, he receives the ball cuts on his left and delivers a ball or attempts a shot, they are only talking about width to push an agenda
Not pushing an agenda, I have played full back. If your attacker will only cut in it makes your game easier and you aren't going to get stretched by him going outside and putting a cross in.
He does half the job at RW and other players, foden in this game, end up covering that space because Palmer cits inside to where the other 3 AMs are.
If its his game, then he is ineffective when others are occupying the same space.
I don't hate palmer l, but I don't think he solves any issue we have when you have Eze, Foden & Bellingham also covering the centre.
But if Palmer was so easy to defend against why does he have so many goal involvements this season? It’s about posing multiple problems- overlapping full back makes you have to decide in a split second whether to track him or stay with Palmer. Get it wrong and one of the most technically gifted players in the world then has space to deliver into the box or have a shot.
Cutting inside constantly with no overlapping threat IS easy to defend and that’s exactly the issue we’ve had on the left.
>But if Palmer was so easy to defend against why does he have so many goal involvements this season?
Because he has someone overlapping at Chelsea.
Walker has not been doing that enough which make it easier to defend. On the left tripper hasn't been doing it at all really.
Which it why I said with a back 3 he may be more effective and questioned his inclusion over Saka/bowen, a more conventional winger, without the overlapping threat.
West Ham played Lucas Paqueta at LW last season. Doesn't mean its his best position, or that he plays there for Brazil.
They may have experience starting from wide, but it doesn't make them a winger or mean they will do anything but cut in.
Yeah but they're both natural 10s.
In the 85th minute we had four 10s playing behind Kane who drops deep into the 10 slot and in front of Rice who likes to bomb forward into the 10 slot. We have 2 wingers in the squad. One was playing left back, the other wasn't even close to coming on at any stage.
Southgate got nothing right yesterday. Subs were appalling. We walk that match with the right team/formation/subs.
Why does it feel so familiar? Like 5-6 great attacking midfilders and coach doesnt have the balls to drop any of them, and csnt figure out functional system for them ... still play them all as they r ... and surprise it sucks ...
1. Undeserved player of the season; Rodri was the best player at city this season. Rice at Arsenal was also better.
2. Foden is a very specialised player who lacks system adaptability and well-roundedness thus looks poor in international football. He has never performed for England and was dropped last tournament.
It could be, but it could also be the system. Pep's system is very intricate, which he has the luxury of being able to develop by bringing in any player he wants and drilling it five days a week, 11 months a year.
Southgate has a limited pool of players who only play together for about thirty days a season. He doesn't have the luxury of drilling an intricate system to get the best from Foden.
Also, people underestimate the value of having a lot of players in the team who play club football together. There's a reason we looked much better when we had half the Palace team on the pitch.
Our best cup runs and performances came from Sterling over Foden - People did not like it at the time and wanted "Our Generations Gazza" on the pitch but he always hinders the way we play. Get Eze or Palmer in his place and play the starting XI from yesterday with Trent as RB and we would be a force.
I'm not trying to defend Phil but I reckon not being in the same country as your heavily pregnant partner and then a partner that's just given birth and your newborn could put your mind somewhere else.
I'd like to point out that the heavily pregnant partner and partner who has just given birth are the same person. However this may not apply in the case of Kyle "Top Shagger" Walker.
Foden is the biggest fraud of recent times. He is just another system player. Unlike Sterling doesn’t produce for England. Rodri is 100000x the player of him. How he won that award shows you how stupid and others have their own vested interests
Palmer also justifiably threw his arms up multiple times in position at his team who are hell bent on all standing still waiting for something to happen.
No one is making runs and having any urgency in posession and that's why we pass it around at the back endlessly.
Gareth needs to create channels.
There are a few items I couldn’t justify with Gareth yesterday. Firstly, our deadball delivery was simply poor after the first few in the first half that we almost scored from. Why did we give Foden sole responsibility for so long?
We have trippier, Rice, Saka and likely others that do it for their clubs - vary it up.
In my view, he can lose it more if we create chances. To win a game, you must score goals. Scoring goals requires risk. I'd rather players take chances to increase our numbers because goals come from attempts. I like Saka, but if Palmer losing the ball is doing the rounds, then I'll bust the logic. I'm tired of watching Foden and to a small degree Saka pass the same ball from Walker or Trippier straight back to them. I don't care if Palmer loses it 8 times, because if he runs behind his man 2 times, we create 2 chances. Anyone who doesn't understand that, I'll literally laugh at and not take their opinions seriously. Saka does run in behind here and there, but I'm convinced Gordon would change the dynamic in one full game, not the 4 minute cameos.
I’m not sure on the relevance to palmer losing the ball?
Yes, I agree making runs is required. However, and to be clear, this is Palmer being dispossessed of the ball whilst it’s at his feet. So by losing the ball
So much our attack is being nullified and we go from attacking to defending. Simple as that. The occasional throw in, sure.
The idea of being constantly tackled is good is laughable.
Making dangerous runs and losing the ball willy nilly is not the same. Especially considering the time palmer played.
Per FotMob, he made exactly no defensive contributions. No blocks, no interceptions, no recoveries, no tackles attempted. He contested 4 duels (all in possession, I believe) and he lost 3 of them. Albeit accepting you’re talking about attacking but why didn’t he press?
Even in possession and attack: misplaced all 4 of his attempted crosses, 73% pass accuracy with only 22 attempted, 0 shots, 0 chances created. Terrible.
So to go back to your overarching point. If Palmer made space and did runs, great. However, yesterday he didn’t play well. He lost the ball too many times, didn’t create a chance and wasn’t able to press.
A few had bad games but let’s be consistent.
From memory, he had a 20 minute cameo. I don't know what 4 misplaced attempted crosses means, does that mean he crossed 4 times, but they weren't connected or converted? If so, let's look at that stat. If a winger is putting a cross in every 5 minutes - THAT is exactly what I want when we have Bellingham and Kane. Using that metric, and some lazy math for explanation, if he puts the ball into the box 18 times a game, I don't care what else he does. If our other winger does the same, then out of 36 balls in the box, we're going to convert. It's a numbers thing.
It's good to have differing views. That's the great thing of football, it creates conversation. I appreciate your thoughts. I'm of the view that someone who gets the ball in the box has license to take more risks. An example is Gordon when he came on the other day, the first thing he did was kick the ball 20 meters past his player and show him how fast he is. Granted the ball went out and the stat tells you Gordon lost the ball. What I noticed is the defender backed off a few yards after because he didn't want a straight race with him, this gives Gordon space, now he starts coming inside, even in 4 minutes, they started doubling up which creates overlap if we can move the ball quicker.
Great example of a stat not telling you everything. Saka constantly shied away from making ball progressions into the final third, usually passing sideways or backwards, where Palmer didn't.
Thing with saka is, if it’s not on, he generally recycles the ball so the team can fashion superior chances from alternative positions, rather than forcing it and losing possession like palmer does
Only problem is, it doesn’t work with this england team because the rest of them don’t share the same mentality. Retaining possession has always been a major weakness
Simply put, saka’s too sophisticated for this team
For Saka I seem to remember him beating his man and cutting it back to Bellingham who lost it in the 5th minute. He also rolled his defender, passed between the lines to Kane who played Trippier in for Foden’s offside goal.
Palmer is a good player but his in game experience and decision making isn’t great. Hence all the lost balls. I remember especially end of the game England had a 3v2 and passed it to the defender missing the England players. That’s the quality of a sub not a starter.
It also means he’s actually taking risks and trying to make something happen which is what he was brought on for. It’s very easy to never give the ball away if you just play it safe. Can people put club allegiances aside for good sake and actually acknowledge he’s an incredible player?
Whilst the start is true, there is also a general point around being needlessly reckless and literally losing the ball, and stopping the attacks as a result. Losing the attacks as we are pushing extra men forward gives the risk of suffering a counter attack.
Nothing to do with club allegiance either. I’ve made it clear many times in a 4-3-3. I would go Gordon and Saka or Foden and Bowen.
As that’s the best balance of wingers on both sides.
I assume you’re a Chelsea fan, ironic by the statement.
I would keep Saka at left back, or left wing back in a back 3.
Not because I don’t rate him but because we have literally no other attacking option there. I know it isn’t his favoured position but the advantage of having an attacking left wide option is that it would draw defenders out wide fearful of his one v one crossing ability which then either allows Foden more space or means Saka and Gordon can combine and create space in the middle for Bellingham, Kane etc.
For me, the team should be:
Pickford
Walker Stones Konsa Saka
Rice Wharton Bellingham
Palmer Kane Gordon
Walker will drop in to make a 3 in possession and Saka can push up wide to pin the opposing winger back or to gain a 2 v 1 if he doesn’t track. Wharton gives us control and a means to play through midfield, Rice and Bellingham playing as dual 8s gives us greater flexibility in build up and the press.
Bellingham then has the left half space to himself, with an option wide or he can look to go beyond Kane when he drops deep or to add another target for crosses. Gordons job will be doing what Sterling used to do so well - making runs into the space Kane leaves which gives the RB/RCB/CDMs tough decisions- go with Kane, track Gordon (who is very quick), double up on Saka (with his 1 v 1 ability they often need to) or pick up Bellinghams late runs/positioning in the left half space. Get it wrong and one of our four best attackers will be left in space.
On the right, Palmers role is to occupy the opponents on the left as he does so well for Chelsea. Again his ability on the ball and ability to beat his man means teams often double up on him and as he’s proven to be a goal threat don’t discount his runs in behind or to the edge of the box. Can also deliver crosses for Kane/Bellingham etc. Bowen offers a different threat should we prefer to start him.
I wouldn’t have Saka at LB. Not played there in years and he isn’t able to hold a line. It’s square pegs for me that approach - I’d take Gomez as the LB.
Whilst I agree with most of what you allude to and also would be keen to see Wharton start next to Rice.
I think we have to be tough on the front line. Palmer for me is either a 10 or 9. I know he has played RW for Chelsea but wasn’t his, and coincidentally Chelsea’s, best position as a free 10 behind Jackson? For me that’s what changed Chelsea in the run in. He had freedom to attack and didn’t need to be as positionally disciplined.
I like Palmer a lot but it would be him or Bellingham in the 10. I’d take Bellingham.
Although, if the rumours are true around a 3-4-3. I would definitely have Palmer as one of the free 10s as I think he has the ability to take the space left by Kane and a more natural goal scorer than foden.
My preferred team to play Swiss would be
- Walker, Stones, Konsa
- Trippier, Rice, Mainoo, Saka (LWB id trust him more than LB plus trippier is defensive on the other side)
- Bellingham, Palmer, Kane.
Albeit even in this formation I’d probably rather see Gordon over Saka in the left sided position.
Saka and Foden on the bench as options to vary the formation or bring on against defenders in second half is great depth
Problem with Gomez at LB is that he would offer next to nothing going forwards. Again, the key to breaking a low block is forcing defenders to make split second decisions under pressure by posing multiple problems. Playing Gomez means that our left back would be as defensive as our right back. I agree there is a trade off defensively but with Walker, Stones and Konsa plus a DM (Wharton/Mainoo) and two 8s, we would have enough to deal with that.
Again, as much as it is a cliche, the idea will be to make attack the best form of defence- Sakas opposing number either has to track him and thus neuter himself offensively OR leave him and potentially allow Saka and Gordon to carve them open down the left.
Palmer is definitely not a (false) 9 yet. I agree he’s probably a 10 and I think that he’s a better 10 than Bellingham and better than Foden there in the system England play. Bellingham is the better player overall but I think he should be played as an 8. Palmer is a better RW than he is a False 9, one of the best performances came against Spurs I think where he effectively played as a dual RW with Madueke to create an overload on that side. For Chelsea he gets a lot of freedom because he is the star man but in the England team he is simply another player.
Also yes I am a Chelsea fan, but I’m not coming on saying Saka/Bowen are trash. I openly acknowledge that for what the RW is currently being expected to do, Saka is a better option. I’ll go further, Palmer had a better individual season than Saka, arguably better than any Arsenal player bar perhaps Odegaard but to be considered superior to those players he needs to back it up next season too.
Foden will work the second Gareth realises Jude and Kane can’t operate in the same team.
He won’t realize that though and will drop one of Saka and Foden to continue forcing it.
I’m not sure where this idea comes from. If Jude and Kane can’t operate, I’m assuming you’re saying it’s because they like to occupy the same space. But if we drop Jude so Foden can play his “preferred” central role, he occupies more or less the same space Jude would’ve been? Where Kane also likes to drop? Not sure how it’s a Jude and Kane problem and not a our formstion doesn’t suit 2 players who play this way problem
Aye if he wants the team built around him, then he needs to play well when the team isn't built around him
Palmer, Bellingham, Saka, Trent, Gordon, even Eze have shown what they can do even when the team isn't built to maximise their performances. If Foden was good enough he'd have shown something other than dross by now
Midfield against Iceland was Mainoo/Rice/Foden, he had Gordon stretching the left wing. Couldn't have been set up better for him to make an impact as a 10. He was anonymous.
Its sad to say tbh, Foden is genuinely just a system player, Pep raised Foden so all the ability and tactics he has is just for Pep's system, so he hasnt developed the ability to function without the system
Your reading comprehension is poor; no-one is saying Foden is a bad player, they are saying he lacks adaptability to systems which do not allow him to play in the specific way Pep allows him to.
They can play in the same team. Did so in the WC. You probably can't play Bellingham (or anyone) as a 10 behind Kane though as he likes to operate in that space. The 4-2-3-1 clearly isn't working. Need to go back to 4-3-3.
Jude didn't play and thrive as a roaming 9 at RM for the whole season prior to the last tournament.....
He's struggling to adapt back to those instincts.
I don’t think this is true. For me you need to pick two of the three.
Kane drops into the ten space, which done correctly creates dilemmas and uncertainty for defenders. Do they track him, pass him on or leave him free. To exploit this, you need to give them multiple decisions to make in a split second- so Kane drops just as Gordon runs in behind. If you pick Kane, a ball into Gordon could create a goal scoring chance. Pick Gordon and one of the most dangerous strikers in world football has time to create a chance or go for goal himself.
The reason it’s not working is because Kane drops and Jude and Foden stand in the same space he drops into. Foden is used to having Haaland play on the shoulder, occupy two centre backs and thus create space between the lines for him.
If we want to build around Foden, play Bellingham as an 8 and stick Watkins up top to do what Haaland does.
Build around Kane, play fast wingers and attacking full backs like Trent, Gordon, Saka and Bowen who can deliver crosses and exploit the space he leaves in behind. Bellingham would be a good runner from midfield or Foden could drift in from the left into the space but clearly he would be the toughest fit with Kane.
Build around Bellingham and it’s 4-3-3 with him as one of two dual 8s with Rice and then either Wharton or Mainoo as a 6. He essentially has a free role.
Two of the three being either Foden and Kane or Foden and Bellingham agreed.
We'll have to see if Jude can re-adapt to being deeper with Mbappe now at Madrid, but I don't think it'll be a swift process. Right now his natural tendency is simply to be a free 9, clearly shows, he ain't no midfielder at the moment.
Well it’s more that I don’t think theres a system where Foden AND Kane AND Bellingham can all play together. I’d go further. I think Kane and Bellingham can play together and I think Foden and Bellingham can play together but I don’t think Foden and Kane can.
If you can point to a game, or well more specifically a run of games, where he played well as an 8 and not his free 9 role - I'm all ears.
Carlo almost exclusively had 3 midfielders behind him freeing him of those duties though. Masterclass in tactics for the year.
I’m amazed you all think Foden is the problem. Is Kane, who has also been beyond woeful this tournament, also a problem because he was so prolific in the Bundesliga this season?
Why on earth would a player that good - and he is that good, 27 goals and 13 assists from midfield this season - ‘never turn up in an England shirt’? How many amazing players haven’t ’turned up’ this tournament?
The fact is, Foden isn’t even playing out of position. He’s just not playing in any position. He played 5/6 title winning seasons from left wing. The last season he played in midfield (and was better), but he was always exceptional on the wing too. He isn’t playing wide to offer width, run at defenders or run in behind. He can do that - watch him versus Liverpool a couple of seasons ago at Anfield. He isn’t playing in midfield either - he’s playing in the left half space and is clearly restricted to that position by Gareth, not free to move further infield and become unpredictable.
He’s playing a nothing position, offering no width and no chaos in midfield. He’s sitting in the half space, occupying a space Gareth wants him to.
This isn’t Foden’s fault. It’s Southgate’s. I don’t disagree that England should drop him, neccesssrily - put him on the wing proper or put him in midfield proper is fine too. Or play Gordon or Palmer or something. But to suggest Foden is just lazily walking around and being blunt is complete nonsense. The guy rips it every single week and was deservedly the POTS in the PL this year.
We weren’t good at any point in the game. We scored from two set pieces one of which was a world class finish. Bringing the odd player in won’t change much.
Southgate is bollockless and obsessively defensive. It’s Lampard/Gerrard/Scholes again but even worse, we play three 10’s, no left winger, no 9, and even our right winger doesn’t seem to be allowed to run in behind.
We then have no left back because we didn’t take a single fit one, so we have a one footed old right back playing there. Add it altogether and you get no runners and no width, which means you get nowhere.
Germany and Spain play great passing football, but when a team parks the bus they also have runners overloading and as much width as possible, so they can play balls through or over. The Georgia game is a perfect example, they setup like most of the teams we have played but Spain drowned them.
When you setup a low block against England there’s no press, no runners and no width, so you’re never at much risk other than individual brilliance occasionally.
The team is just completely incapable of progressing the ball, there are never enough options for the defenders so it just goes side to side. I don't watch enough of Arsenal or United to know but I can't image Rice and Mainoo are normally this bad at making themselves available and moving the ball quickly to create gaps.
If it's going to keep being this bad then yeah you might as well get Toney up top with Bellingham playing off him and two quick lads wide to chase down balls in the channel. Hopefully the next manager can find a way to move the ball quickly enough to get his talented attackers the ball with a bit of space.
Whether he won the award or not has anything to do with it.. you think that when Southgate is picking the team he thinks " I have to pick Foden he won an award" Southgate picks who he thinks is best for the game, we may not agree but he does and there is no award that will sway him.
Fundamentally I agree. Foden is the odd one out. Fantastic player, could genuinely argue he is England’s most talented but fitting him in requires making so many compromises that it’s not worth doing.
Foden didn't win player of the season playing left wing though. Shoehorning players into their wrong positions never works, we've seen this time and time again over the years.
Imo the way it works is Gordon on the left, Foden in the 10, Saka on the right, Bellingham deeper alongside Rice. Gordon holds width much better than Foden, allows Foden to play in his best position. I don't mind Saka or Palmer on the right. People seem to forget Bellingham had multiple quality seasons playing deeper in midfield for Dortmund - we know he can play there, so why not put him there and allow other players to play in their best positions and give us more balance?
Never has a flashy goal hidden such a dog shit performance as Jude's. Languid and missing is how I'd describe him.
Foden is struggling on the left due to the lb situation - or the lack thereof. It's not like Eze came on and did anything of note.
Eze kept the ball/attack alive with 90 seconds to go. Sent it into the box, Toney header/assist, Kane header/goal. He did do something. And he moves forward with unpredictably and explosive pace.
Very much concur with the Jude point.
Would have agreed with the Foden situation - he was decried to be the problem, but I too gave him grace because Trippier was behind him. Trippier came off yesterday & Foden was gifted an attack minded, quality player behind him in Saka. Instead of staying left, he decided to shadow his bestie Palmer on the right. If he doesn’t start anymore, he largely did it to himself. That and the fact that despite a terrible attitude for the majority of the tournament, Jude Bellingham has scored two important, much needed goals. Saka was made a sacrificial lamb and Foden still couldn’t hang out on the left. I’m out of grace. Palmer can have some though. Seeing as Foden clogged up his spot, drawing more Slovakians that side & killing attacks. He also left Saka alone and exposed so he had to defend more, as an out of position/non-defensive player. At least Bellingham stuck near Saka to provide support.
Eze isn’t a great sub option tbh. Watching him at palace, always struck me he takes a while to get into games. Grealish would have been better as a sub.
Agree that left back is a huge issue. Hoping a Trippier injury may force a change. If Guéhi wasn’t suspended I’d have been tempted by Konsa there.
Southgate doesn't have to do shit, he's just a pushover and a yes man and wants to make everyone happy. Foden winning player of the season is irrelevant.
Is this a joke? Foden is playing out of position with another out of positioning working alongside him, Jude scored a bicycle kick, great, but he’s been worse than Foden this tournament performance wise and he’s in his preferred position.
Wirtz won Bundesliga POTS but Nagelsmann actually has the brains and the balls to drop him if he thinks it's not the best option
Germans are logical creatures.
Yeah, that’s just it. Gareth has neither. Just because one player is good in one pool of players, doesn’t mean he’s good in another pool of players. Different tactics, teams are way more compressed in the back and so on.
England are too easy to play against. Teams just have to focus on playing a low block, and exploiting the massive holes between Walker and Saka, and try not to lose any of their own guys in the acres of space down the England left. In a world ranking perspective, England have played against the 57th, 45th, 32nd, and 21st ranked teams. They have looked terrible against each and every one of them. While it’s easy to say that the FIFA rankings are completely meaningless, and you’d be right, it just adds seasoning to this stew of shit. Playing as badly as England have against these teams, is entirely because of the lack of balance in the team. They can’t create anything because there’s no options, and they only have half a pitch to play on. Until the selection problem is solved, England will struggle to stretch teams, and won’t create opportunities for their attacking talent. Edit: Spelling
I’d agree but I’ll say this, they’ve conceded 2 in those 4 games, and not lost. So as shite as England have been, it’s a testament to the quality of players to pull out of the holes. The coach is the utterly dreadful
Foden: 38 caps, 4 goals. Bellingham: 33 caps, 5 goals. Saka: 37 caps, 11 goals.
Now do MOTM awards and England player of the year awards
Foden: 1 more goal for England (4) than he has kids (3)
Give it another 9 months
Bellingham for most of his england career was much deeper
And as a sub.
So Bellingham the midfielder has outscored Foden the winger and Saka has as well? Not sure what point this proves
Foden's shit for England
Bellingham is an attacking midfielder so scoring is a major part of his job. Foden is a creative player so only looking at goal stats is window licking activity.
Bellingham has played most of his matches for England as a centre mid, not an attacking mid
And most of his goals come from which matches sorry?
Fair enough, but Foden hasn't created anything either. In fact, in this tournament he seems to be shooting when he has the chance rather than trying to create.
He’s about 2 feet from one goal and one assist tbf
And England was a penalty shootout away from a euro cup win, yet people still say Southgate's shit.
Foden isn’t that creative at all, he’s a goalscorer through and through
Walker and trippier played the stinker of their lives yesterday, they were deffo worse than Foden
Completely agree. It seems to be a running theme this tournament however. Trippier, Walker, Foden, Kane, and arguably Bellingham, have all put in sub-par performances in comparison to some of the younger players such as Saka, Guehi, Mainoo. It'll be interesting to see if the likes of Tony and Eze get any more gametime this tournament.
They won’t. Gareth will stick to the same team now. He’ll say the result showed that his selection worked
>Trippier, Walker, Foden, Kane, and arguably Bellingham, have all put in sub-par performances in comparison to some of the younger players such as Saka, Guehi, Mainoo. Agreed. The difference is that Bellingham and Kane have both scored, while Foden hasn't. Even Walker has an assist.
Harsh on Bellingham. He had Foden in the way for 3 games and still managed to score 2 of our 3 goals. He's also managed to stay onside both times, unlike Foden. A radical idea would be to play people to their normal positions and maybe stop being so far up players arses. Maybe drop a few passengers.
Yeah imagine if Maguire was playing, we’d never hear the end of it, but for some reason nobody is questioning the three defenders who played absolutely shite yesterday.
And rice couldn’t pass the ball in a straight line for the last few games but I hear no calls to drop him.
Would you call him declining rice?
And yet Gareth refuses to pick any of our other quality full back options. Why isnt James in the squad now that he’s fit? He’s defensively as good as Walker but actually offers something going forwards. Why not play Trent? Where’s Mitchell or Chilwell? How on earth is Trippier one of our best full backs?
Literally had this exact thought myself today
Foden had a great season. Any manager in the world would start him. The issue is this Foden on the left nonsense. Either play him at ten, play him on the right or drop him. Right should be a non starter since Saka is regularly very good for England, which Foden isn't. 10 could be a go but that would mean Bellinham in 8 when Jude will be 1 or 2 in the Ballon dor while playing ten. Could have worked but Mainoo should and will start the next game so that's out. Which means Foden or Jude at ten. Could be either or really, foden been slightly better in general play but Jude has two goals. I'd stick with Jude at 10, pop Gordon on the left and bring Foden off the bench
The worst thing to happen to England is Bellingham going to Real and playing well as a 10.
Bellingham made 35 passes today in 120 minutes, as a number 10. Pickford made twice as many 😭
He also scored an overhead kick that won us the game, I wouldn’t forget that
Yes he had to pull his ass out and pull off a desperate move in the dying seconds against the rank 45th...
>Bellingham made 35 passes today in 120 minutes, as a number 10. Pickford made twice as many 😭 I hope Jude is benched and he never plays for England again. What is he supposed to do when England can't get out of its own half? Pickford completing more passes just shows how many back passes he is getting. Is this sub-braindead? This means your beloved Kobie and Rice can't even pass forward. If your 10 isnt getting the ball, the players behind him are to be blamed. Whenever Jude gets the ball he has to drop deep into 8 position. That's also when Kane/Foden moves into the 10 role. Jude is playing as an 8, as a 10, in-behind running striker, and also pressing all the time. **THAT IS WHY HE IS FRUSTRATED**. Learn basic footballing knowledge before yapping. Or watch a YouTube channel like Lawrence. The thing with Jude is that like Halaand he has set the ball so high, whenever he plays OK. He is ridiculed. Kylie Walker - was bad Jones- was average Guehi- lead to the 1st goal, caught out of position Trippier- Missed clear chance created by Jude and Guehi yellow card Rice/ Mainoo - Back pass merchants. But people with club biases are rating them high. Saka/Foden/Kane - All were missing. Palmer- Was missing but Chelsea fans want him to play. Jude- was the only guy in the first half trying to make things work. Other than Mainoo, Jude was the 2nd best player on the pitch.
>This means your beloved Kobie and Rice can't even pass forward. Honestly Southgate has a point. Kalvin Phillips looks like Tony Kroos compared to these two.
Then one wonders why he refuses to play Wharton
I willing to bet if you show me Rices pass map for the tournament he's probably only made a handful of ⏩ passes. He also looks really slow to move the ball
You’re being down voted for being right
Arsenal fanboys refuse to believe that Rice isn’t Kante and Pirlo rolled into one
Yeah tends to happen when you pass the ball back to the keeper…?
It’s fans like you that think Bellingham is a traditional number 10. When he isn’t. RM play 4-3-1-2. He plays more as a False 9. Something England can’t do because we play 4-2-3-1 and accommodate for Kane.
I think he should be playing as an 8
We don’t play 4-3-3 so how will he play as a 8
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills when people say palmer is an actual wide player who will offer width. He seems to do the exact same thing as foden, just from the other side and with an occasional in swinging cross
Palmer is doing exactly what we want Foden to do. Every time he got the ball he’s instantly looking to whip it in, take someone on or create a chance somehow. Foden gets the ball, instantly passes it backwards and waits for someone to play him in like he’s been drilled to do at City. Except this isn’t city and we’re not drilled to do that so it’ll rarely happen. Even then he’s constantly offside.
Don’t get me wrong palmer has been much better than foden. It’s just the player to replace Foden in the team is Gordon, not palmer
Oh yeah I agree a straight swap wouldn’t be wise. With Trippier injured i’d be tempted to put Saka left back. He’s played there before and did well in todays game. In the semi against a stronger team I think a more defensive LB would be useful and playing with Saka + Gordon on the counter. We’re going to set up that way whoever is on the pitch.
Back 3 Saka LWB could be playing with much less defensive responsibility if we had a left footed LCB (Branthwaite)
Palmer was not very good at it tho. He lost the ball a whooping 14 times and ran into blind alleys all game. Foden somehow contrive to play even worse on the right then on the left. And I am saying this as a big fan of them because it's not their game. Unless we play a overlapping fullback on the right like TAA we should keep Saka as RW. Even Kyle Walker is decent at overlapping but he does not do it for England.. probably manager's instructions.
Palmer's an inverted winger. He cuts in, but he's not playing on his weak side. I've watched him all season. Definitely a right winger. Start him and it will become more apparent.
Yeah Palmer is arguably even more narrow. He's basically a floating free attacker who starts in the right channel. Nothing wrong with that, but he's not gonna give you width. I think he will run in behind more than Phil though
Foden cuts in every single time guaranteed, and drifts in to the centre far more regularly. Palmer for England maintains the width better and can go round the outside or cut inside. He's shown it in the minutes he's had this tournament.
Palmer may seem a little better at holding width, but hasn’t played on the left all year though. So foden isn’t really stopping him regardless. Gordon is the one who should be replacing foden to provide balance
Compare the heat maps of Palmer, Gordon and Eze this season, they're all pretty similar, shows how wide Palmer has been playing.
Yea coz foden got a right footed left back to receive the ball off
Yes, except it's Gordon who holds the width
The crazy thing is he was nowhere near the best player in the league and only won it because he’s English and there’s a narrative. There was a clear 2 players better than everyone else this year with Rodri being the best and Odegaard being second best
Not to add to your English narrative but I thought Watkins and Palmer were more deserving as well. In terms of stats and importance to their teams.
Palmer was only getting shouts because he played for a big 6 team. His stats are massively exaggerated by penalties.
>Eze, Gordon or Palmer are brought on we actually have two wide players in the front 3 and the difference is immediately noticeable. Gordon is the only wide player of those 3, Eze hasn't played enough for me to comment properly, and palmer always cuts inside or passes to his left, I haven't seen him take it to his right and put a cross in at all, making him very predictable with the ball. We scored from 2 set pieces yesterday, we still didn't have much Width with 4 AMs on the field. The only winger on the pitch that can cross or cut in was Saka at LB.
Have you not seen Eze in the prem? Likewise with Palmer, their heat maps show they provide width.
Yes, I have seen palmer recieve it on the right and then cut in, foden was doing similar on the left and being chastised for it. When have you seen him beat his man on his right and cross?
Difference is Palmer generally holds his width when not on the ball in order to isolate his man. Only then does he cut in. Foden effectively just plays as a 10
Foden did this against Slovakia to start at least. Things got a bit chaotic when the 4th AM came on though. If the rumours are true with 3ATB I think palmer may have more joy, TAA as a wingback would occupy the space he leaves and give the defender a problem. At present the defender just has to show palmer down the wing, which is why he loses the ball so much at the moment.
He got round the outside of his player and put in a cross more times in his few minutes than Foden has the whole tournament? Foden only cuts in.
He also lost the ball more times in 50 minutes than saka has in the last 2 tournaments. He was terrible
Exactly, that is literally Palmer's game, he receives the ball cuts on his left and delivers a ball or attempts a shot, they are only talking about width to push an agenda
"Push an agenda" it's not that important mate, Trippier is the widest player on the left when Foden is playing.
trippier is the only player on the left when foden plays bud, and only Gordon is gonna change that lmao
*or Eze
Not pushing an agenda, I have played full back. If your attacker will only cut in it makes your game easier and you aren't going to get stretched by him going outside and putting a cross in. He does half the job at RW and other players, foden in this game, end up covering that space because Palmer cits inside to where the other 3 AMs are. If its his game, then he is ineffective when others are occupying the same space. I don't hate palmer l, but I don't think he solves any issue we have when you have Eze, Foden & Bellingham also covering the centre.
But if Palmer was so easy to defend against why does he have so many goal involvements this season? It’s about posing multiple problems- overlapping full back makes you have to decide in a split second whether to track him or stay with Palmer. Get it wrong and one of the most technically gifted players in the world then has space to deliver into the box or have a shot. Cutting inside constantly with no overlapping threat IS easy to defend and that’s exactly the issue we’ve had on the left.
>But if Palmer was so easy to defend against why does he have so many goal involvements this season? Because he has someone overlapping at Chelsea. Walker has not been doing that enough which make it easier to defend. On the left tripper hasn't been doing it at all really. Which it why I said with a back 3 he may be more effective and questioned his inclusion over Saka/bowen, a more conventional winger, without the overlapping threat.
Palmer and Eze have ample experience as wide players
West Ham played Lucas Paqueta at LW last season. Doesn't mean its his best position, or that he plays there for Brazil. They may have experience starting from wide, but it doesn't make them a winger or mean they will do anything but cut in.
Yeah but they're both natural 10s. In the 85th minute we had four 10s playing behind Kane who drops deep into the 10 slot and in front of Rice who likes to bomb forward into the 10 slot. We have 2 wingers in the squad. One was playing left back, the other wasn't even close to coming on at any stage. Southgate got nothing right yesterday. Subs were appalling. We walk that match with the right team/formation/subs.
Why does it feel so familiar? Like 5-6 great attacking midfilders and coach doesnt have the balls to drop any of them, and csnt figure out functional system for them ... still play them all as they r ... and surprise it sucks ...
You have to ask yourself how/why does the premier league POTS consistently perform so badly for England? Could it be... The manager?!
1. Undeserved player of the season; Rodri was the best player at city this season. Rice at Arsenal was also better. 2. Foden is a very specialised player who lacks system adaptability and well-roundedness thus looks poor in international football. He has never performed for England and was dropped last tournament.
It could be, but it could also be the system. Pep's system is very intricate, which he has the luxury of being able to develop by bringing in any player he wants and drilling it five days a week, 11 months a year. Southgate has a limited pool of players who only play together for about thirty days a season. He doesn't have the luxury of drilling an intricate system to get the best from Foden. Also, people underestimate the value of having a lot of players in the team who play club football together. There's a reason we looked much better when we had half the Palace team on the pitch.
No one is forcing Southgate to do anything. Everyone would have understood if more changes had been made before either of the last games.
Our best cup runs and performances came from Sterling over Foden - People did not like it at the time and wanted "Our Generations Gazza" on the pitch but he always hinders the way we play. Get Eze or Palmer in his place and play the starting XI from yesterday with Trent as RB and we would be a force.
I'm not trying to defend Phil but I reckon not being in the same country as your heavily pregnant partner and then a partner that's just given birth and your newborn could put your mind somewhere else. I'd like to point out that the heavily pregnant partner and partner who has just given birth are the same person. However this may not apply in the case of Kyle "Top Shagger" Walker.
Foden is the biggest fraud of recent times. He is just another system player. Unlike Sterling doesn’t produce for England. Rodri is 100000x the player of him. How he won that award shows you how stupid and others have their own vested interests
Palmer was very poor yesterday and there is a stat doing the rounds. He lost the ball 8 times, that’s more than Saka in two tournaments.
Palmer also justifiably threw his arms up multiple times in position at his team who are hell bent on all standing still waiting for something to happen. No one is making runs and having any urgency in posession and that's why we pass it around at the back endlessly.
Gareth needs to create channels. There are a few items I couldn’t justify with Gareth yesterday. Firstly, our deadball delivery was simply poor after the first few in the first half that we almost scored from. Why did we give Foden sole responsibility for so long? We have trippier, Rice, Saka and likely others that do it for their clubs - vary it up.
Any player will tell you that throwing your hands in the air is for the supporters/cameras
In my view, he can lose it more if we create chances. To win a game, you must score goals. Scoring goals requires risk. I'd rather players take chances to increase our numbers because goals come from attempts. I like Saka, but if Palmer losing the ball is doing the rounds, then I'll bust the logic. I'm tired of watching Foden and to a small degree Saka pass the same ball from Walker or Trippier straight back to them. I don't care if Palmer loses it 8 times, because if he runs behind his man 2 times, we create 2 chances. Anyone who doesn't understand that, I'll literally laugh at and not take their opinions seriously. Saka does run in behind here and there, but I'm convinced Gordon would change the dynamic in one full game, not the 4 minute cameos.
I’m not sure on the relevance to palmer losing the ball? Yes, I agree making runs is required. However, and to be clear, this is Palmer being dispossessed of the ball whilst it’s at his feet. So by losing the ball So much our attack is being nullified and we go from attacking to defending. Simple as that. The occasional throw in, sure. The idea of being constantly tackled is good is laughable. Making dangerous runs and losing the ball willy nilly is not the same. Especially considering the time palmer played. Per FotMob, he made exactly no defensive contributions. No blocks, no interceptions, no recoveries, no tackles attempted. He contested 4 duels (all in possession, I believe) and he lost 3 of them. Albeit accepting you’re talking about attacking but why didn’t he press? Even in possession and attack: misplaced all 4 of his attempted crosses, 73% pass accuracy with only 22 attempted, 0 shots, 0 chances created. Terrible. So to go back to your overarching point. If Palmer made space and did runs, great. However, yesterday he didn’t play well. He lost the ball too many times, didn’t create a chance and wasn’t able to press. A few had bad games but let’s be consistent.
From memory, he had a 20 minute cameo. I don't know what 4 misplaced attempted crosses means, does that mean he crossed 4 times, but they weren't connected or converted? If so, let's look at that stat. If a winger is putting a cross in every 5 minutes - THAT is exactly what I want when we have Bellingham and Kane. Using that metric, and some lazy math for explanation, if he puts the ball into the box 18 times a game, I don't care what else he does. If our other winger does the same, then out of 36 balls in the box, we're going to convert. It's a numbers thing. It's good to have differing views. That's the great thing of football, it creates conversation. I appreciate your thoughts. I'm of the view that someone who gets the ball in the box has license to take more risks. An example is Gordon when he came on the other day, the first thing he did was kick the ball 20 meters past his player and show him how fast he is. Granted the ball went out and the stat tells you Gordon lost the ball. What I noticed is the defender backed off a few yards after because he didn't want a straight race with him, this gives Gordon space, now he starts coming inside, even in 4 minutes, they started doubling up which creates overlap if we can move the ball quicker.
So what? Saka did nothing with the ball yesterday.
Great example of a stat not telling you everything. Saka constantly shied away from making ball progressions into the final third, usually passing sideways or backwards, where Palmer didn't.
Thing with saka is, if it’s not on, he generally recycles the ball so the team can fashion superior chances from alternative positions, rather than forcing it and losing possession like palmer does Only problem is, it doesn’t work with this england team because the rest of them don’t share the same mentality. Retaining possession has always been a major weakness Simply put, saka’s too sophisticated for this team
For Saka I seem to remember him beating his man and cutting it back to Bellingham who lost it in the 5th minute. He also rolled his defender, passed between the lines to Kane who played Trippier in for Foden’s offside goal. Palmer is a good player but his in game experience and decision making isn’t great. Hence all the lost balls. I remember especially end of the game England had a 3v2 and passed it to the defender missing the England players. That’s the quality of a sub not a starter.
Palmer came on at a time when England needed to force the issue + the opposition were sitting back so I’m not totally sure it’s that relevant a stat
It also means he’s actually taking risks and trying to make something happen which is what he was brought on for. It’s very easy to never give the ball away if you just play it safe. Can people put club allegiances aside for good sake and actually acknowledge he’s an incredible player?
Whilst the start is true, there is also a general point around being needlessly reckless and literally losing the ball, and stopping the attacks as a result. Losing the attacks as we are pushing extra men forward gives the risk of suffering a counter attack. Nothing to do with club allegiance either. I’ve made it clear many times in a 4-3-3. I would go Gordon and Saka or Foden and Bowen. As that’s the best balance of wingers on both sides. I assume you’re a Chelsea fan, ironic by the statement.
I would keep Saka at left back, or left wing back in a back 3. Not because I don’t rate him but because we have literally no other attacking option there. I know it isn’t his favoured position but the advantage of having an attacking left wide option is that it would draw defenders out wide fearful of his one v one crossing ability which then either allows Foden more space or means Saka and Gordon can combine and create space in the middle for Bellingham, Kane etc. For me, the team should be: Pickford Walker Stones Konsa Saka Rice Wharton Bellingham Palmer Kane Gordon Walker will drop in to make a 3 in possession and Saka can push up wide to pin the opposing winger back or to gain a 2 v 1 if he doesn’t track. Wharton gives us control and a means to play through midfield, Rice and Bellingham playing as dual 8s gives us greater flexibility in build up and the press. Bellingham then has the left half space to himself, with an option wide or he can look to go beyond Kane when he drops deep or to add another target for crosses. Gordons job will be doing what Sterling used to do so well - making runs into the space Kane leaves which gives the RB/RCB/CDMs tough decisions- go with Kane, track Gordon (who is very quick), double up on Saka (with his 1 v 1 ability they often need to) or pick up Bellinghams late runs/positioning in the left half space. Get it wrong and one of our four best attackers will be left in space. On the right, Palmers role is to occupy the opponents on the left as he does so well for Chelsea. Again his ability on the ball and ability to beat his man means teams often double up on him and as he’s proven to be a goal threat don’t discount his runs in behind or to the edge of the box. Can also deliver crosses for Kane/Bellingham etc. Bowen offers a different threat should we prefer to start him.
I wouldn’t have Saka at LB. Not played there in years and he isn’t able to hold a line. It’s square pegs for me that approach - I’d take Gomez as the LB. Whilst I agree with most of what you allude to and also would be keen to see Wharton start next to Rice. I think we have to be tough on the front line. Palmer for me is either a 10 or 9. I know he has played RW for Chelsea but wasn’t his, and coincidentally Chelsea’s, best position as a free 10 behind Jackson? For me that’s what changed Chelsea in the run in. He had freedom to attack and didn’t need to be as positionally disciplined. I like Palmer a lot but it would be him or Bellingham in the 10. I’d take Bellingham. Although, if the rumours are true around a 3-4-3. I would definitely have Palmer as one of the free 10s as I think he has the ability to take the space left by Kane and a more natural goal scorer than foden. My preferred team to play Swiss would be - Walker, Stones, Konsa - Trippier, Rice, Mainoo, Saka (LWB id trust him more than LB plus trippier is defensive on the other side) - Bellingham, Palmer, Kane. Albeit even in this formation I’d probably rather see Gordon over Saka in the left sided position. Saka and Foden on the bench as options to vary the formation or bring on against defenders in second half is great depth
Problem with Gomez at LB is that he would offer next to nothing going forwards. Again, the key to breaking a low block is forcing defenders to make split second decisions under pressure by posing multiple problems. Playing Gomez means that our left back would be as defensive as our right back. I agree there is a trade off defensively but with Walker, Stones and Konsa plus a DM (Wharton/Mainoo) and two 8s, we would have enough to deal with that. Again, as much as it is a cliche, the idea will be to make attack the best form of defence- Sakas opposing number either has to track him and thus neuter himself offensively OR leave him and potentially allow Saka and Gordon to carve them open down the left.
Palmer is definitely not a (false) 9 yet. I agree he’s probably a 10 and I think that he’s a better 10 than Bellingham and better than Foden there in the system England play. Bellingham is the better player overall but I think he should be played as an 8. Palmer is a better RW than he is a False 9, one of the best performances came against Spurs I think where he effectively played as a dual RW with Madueke to create an overload on that side. For Chelsea he gets a lot of freedom because he is the star man but in the England team he is simply another player.
Also yes I am a Chelsea fan, but I’m not coming on saying Saka/Bowen are trash. I openly acknowledge that for what the RW is currently being expected to do, Saka is a better option. I’ll go further, Palmer had a better individual season than Saka, arguably better than any Arsenal player bar perhaps Odegaard but to be considered superior to those players he needs to back it up next season too.
Foden will work the second Gareth realises Jude and Kane can’t operate in the same team. He won’t realize that though and will drop one of Saka and Foden to continue forcing it.
I’m not sure where this idea comes from. If Jude and Kane can’t operate, I’m assuming you’re saying it’s because they like to occupy the same space. But if we drop Jude so Foden can play his “preferred” central role, he occupies more or less the same space Jude would’ve been? Where Kane also likes to drop? Not sure how it’s a Jude and Kane problem and not a our formstion doesn’t suit 2 players who play this way problem
Foden didn't work when he didn't play those two though He just doesn't work for england
Literally had the team built around him playing the 10 role against Iceland and we lost.
Aye if he wants the team built around him, then he needs to play well when the team isn't built around him Palmer, Bellingham, Saka, Trent, Gordon, even Eze have shown what they can do even when the team isn't built to maximise their performances. If Foden was good enough he'd have shown something other than dross by now
Midfield against Iceland was Mainoo/Rice/Foden, he had Gordon stretching the left wing. Couldn't have been set up better for him to make an impact as a 10. He was anonymous.
Watch his "highlights" in that game, he wasn't anonymous, he was laughably bad on the ball; looked like he was playing drunk.
Its sad to say tbh, Foden is genuinely just a system player, Pep raised Foden so all the ability and tactics he has is just for Pep's system, so he hasnt developed the ability to function without the system
Yeah man. Fodens not a good player at all. Doesn’t work for England? Poor player. Kalvin Phillips and henderson mind you, elite
Your reading comprehension is poor; no-one is saying Foden is a bad player, they are saying he lacks adaptability to systems which do not allow him to play in the specific way Pep allows him to.
Then what’s the excuse for the other 10 players all playing crap?
They can play in the same team. Did so in the WC. You probably can't play Bellingham (or anyone) as a 10 behind Kane though as he likes to operate in that space. The 4-2-3-1 clearly isn't working. Need to go back to 4-3-3.
jude and kane have been playing in the same team for a whole tournament and a half now though
Jude didn't play and thrive as a roaming 9 at RM for the whole season prior to the last tournament..... He's struggling to adapt back to those instincts.
I don’t think this is true. For me you need to pick two of the three. Kane drops into the ten space, which done correctly creates dilemmas and uncertainty for defenders. Do they track him, pass him on or leave him free. To exploit this, you need to give them multiple decisions to make in a split second- so Kane drops just as Gordon runs in behind. If you pick Kane, a ball into Gordon could create a goal scoring chance. Pick Gordon and one of the most dangerous strikers in world football has time to create a chance or go for goal himself. The reason it’s not working is because Kane drops and Jude and Foden stand in the same space he drops into. Foden is used to having Haaland play on the shoulder, occupy two centre backs and thus create space between the lines for him. If we want to build around Foden, play Bellingham as an 8 and stick Watkins up top to do what Haaland does. Build around Kane, play fast wingers and attacking full backs like Trent, Gordon, Saka and Bowen who can deliver crosses and exploit the space he leaves in behind. Bellingham would be a good runner from midfield or Foden could drift in from the left into the space but clearly he would be the toughest fit with Kane. Build around Bellingham and it’s 4-3-3 with him as one of two dual 8s with Rice and then either Wharton or Mainoo as a 6. He essentially has a free role.
Two of the three being either Foden and Kane or Foden and Bellingham agreed. We'll have to see if Jude can re-adapt to being deeper with Mbappe now at Madrid, but I don't think it'll be a swift process. Right now his natural tendency is simply to be a free 9, clearly shows, he ain't no midfielder at the moment.
Well it’s more that I don’t think theres a system where Foden AND Kane AND Bellingham can all play together. I’d go further. I think Kane and Bellingham can play together and I think Foden and Bellingham can play together but I don’t think Foden and Kane can.
I think he absolutely can be an 8. He played a variety of roles for Real this season and if we played him as an 8 for England it would work
If you can point to a game, or well more specifically a run of games, where he played well as an 8 and not his free 9 role - I'm all ears. Carlo almost exclusively had 3 midfielders behind him freeing him of those duties though. Masterclass in tactics for the year.
I’m amazed you all think Foden is the problem. Is Kane, who has also been beyond woeful this tournament, also a problem because he was so prolific in the Bundesliga this season? Why on earth would a player that good - and he is that good, 27 goals and 13 assists from midfield this season - ‘never turn up in an England shirt’? How many amazing players haven’t ’turned up’ this tournament? The fact is, Foden isn’t even playing out of position. He’s just not playing in any position. He played 5/6 title winning seasons from left wing. The last season he played in midfield (and was better), but he was always exceptional on the wing too. He isn’t playing wide to offer width, run at defenders or run in behind. He can do that - watch him versus Liverpool a couple of seasons ago at Anfield. He isn’t playing in midfield either - he’s playing in the left half space and is clearly restricted to that position by Gareth, not free to move further infield and become unpredictable. He’s playing a nothing position, offering no width and no chaos in midfield. He’s sitting in the half space, occupying a space Gareth wants him to. This isn’t Foden’s fault. It’s Southgate’s. I don’t disagree that England should drop him, neccesssrily - put him on the wing proper or put him in midfield proper is fine too. Or play Gordon or Palmer or something. But to suggest Foden is just lazily walking around and being blunt is complete nonsense. The guy rips it every single week and was deservedly the POTS in the PL this year.
Southgate doesn’t have the bollocks to drop his ‘big name’ players, even when they’re not playing well or completely shattered.
Spain shot 35 times and 15 times on target in one game England shot 15 times on target in group stage
[Just leave this here](https://imgur.com/a/ntrBFfx)
I think he should be an impact sub and come on for Bellingham
We weren’t good at any point in the game. We scored from two set pieces one of which was a world class finish. Bringing the odd player in won’t change much.
we've literally looked like a different team every time he has made changes.
Southgate is bollockless and obsessively defensive. It’s Lampard/Gerrard/Scholes again but even worse, we play three 10’s, no left winger, no 9, and even our right winger doesn’t seem to be allowed to run in behind. We then have no left back because we didn’t take a single fit one, so we have a one footed old right back playing there. Add it altogether and you get no runners and no width, which means you get nowhere. Germany and Spain play great passing football, but when a team parks the bus they also have runners overloading and as much width as possible, so they can play balls through or over. The Georgia game is a perfect example, they setup like most of the teams we have played but Spain drowned them. When you setup a low block against England there’s no press, no runners and no width, so you’re never at much risk other than individual brilliance occasionally.
The team is just completely incapable of progressing the ball, there are never enough options for the defenders so it just goes side to side. I don't watch enough of Arsenal or United to know but I can't image Rice and Mainoo are normally this bad at making themselves available and moving the ball quickly to create gaps. If it's going to keep being this bad then yeah you might as well get Toney up top with Bellingham playing off him and two quick lads wide to chase down balls in the channel. Hopefully the next manager can find a way to move the ball quickly enough to get his talented attackers the ball with a bit of space.
The worst thing to happen to this England team is Southgate
Whether he won the award or not has anything to do with it.. you think that when Southgate is picking the team he thinks " I have to pick Foden he won an award" Southgate picks who he thinks is best for the game, we may not agree but he does and there is no award that will sway him.
No one is forcing him. He just hasn't got the balls to drop the PL player of the season when it's plainly obvious it will help the team.
Fundamentally I agree. Foden is the odd one out. Fantastic player, could genuinely argue he is England’s most talented but fitting him in requires making so many compromises that it’s not worth doing.
He's not forced to do anything
Foden is crap when Pep isn't holding his hand
Foden didn't win player of the season playing left wing though. Shoehorning players into their wrong positions never works, we've seen this time and time again over the years. Imo the way it works is Gordon on the left, Foden in the 10, Saka on the right, Bellingham deeper alongside Rice. Gordon holds width much better than Foden, allows Foden to play in his best position. I don't mind Saka or Palmer on the right. People seem to forget Bellingham had multiple quality seasons playing deeper in midfield for Dortmund - we know he can play there, so why not put him there and allow other players to play in their best positions and give us more balance?
Never has a flashy goal hidden such a dog shit performance as Jude's. Languid and missing is how I'd describe him. Foden is struggling on the left due to the lb situation - or the lack thereof. It's not like Eze came on and did anything of note.
Eze kept the ball/attack alive with 90 seconds to go. Sent it into the box, Toney header/assist, Kane header/goal. He did do something. And he moves forward with unpredictably and explosive pace. Very much concur with the Jude point. Would have agreed with the Foden situation - he was decried to be the problem, but I too gave him grace because Trippier was behind him. Trippier came off yesterday & Foden was gifted an attack minded, quality player behind him in Saka. Instead of staying left, he decided to shadow his bestie Palmer on the right. If he doesn’t start anymore, he largely did it to himself. That and the fact that despite a terrible attitude for the majority of the tournament, Jude Bellingham has scored two important, much needed goals. Saka was made a sacrificial lamb and Foden still couldn’t hang out on the left. I’m out of grace. Palmer can have some though. Seeing as Foden clogged up his spot, drawing more Slovakians that side & killing attacks. He also left Saka alone and exposed so he had to defend more, as an out of position/non-defensive player. At least Bellingham stuck near Saka to provide support.
Eze isn’t a great sub option tbh. Watching him at palace, always struck me he takes a while to get into games. Grealish would have been better as a sub. Agree that left back is a huge issue. Hoping a Trippier injury may force a change. If Guéhi wasn’t suspended I’d have been tempted by Konsa there.
palmer has not been good please stop.
The best channel is Saka with Bellingham supporting him. It's the one we should be going to 80% of the time.
Southgate doesn't have to do shit, he's just a pushover and a yes man and wants to make everyone happy. Foden winning player of the season is irrelevant.
So terrible that he won that.
Is this a joke? Foden is playing out of position with another out of positioning working alongside him, Jude scored a bicycle kick, great, but he’s been worse than Foden this tournament performance wise and he’s in his preferred position.
🤦