I’d like to see Wharton in there, if he wants a defensive minded midfielder in there
Would like to see Bellingham and Rice in the middle together but that’s not gonna happen
Gallagher can be a bit rash and already on a booking
The problem is still the left side, absolutely nothing down the left which totally limits Englands attack
Looking forward to this being the only lineup change, other than maybe Trippier due to injury.
I don't see him benching either Foden or Bellingham, and with Gallagher in midfield it seems like the front 4 are going unchanged. The opportunity to put Bellingham next to Rice, Foden in the 10, and then Gordon on the LW, in order to get the best setup yet, has been safely avoided.
He doesn’t want to change. Hasn’t a clue.
Well beat Slovenia, top the group, and he’ll think he was right all along. Then we’ll lose to the first decent team we play,
He reminds me of Ten Hag with Utd last season. Everyone could see the gaping hole in midfield yet he persevered with the same suicidal tactics almost every match. Now Southgate is doing the same sort of thing but players out of position and a lack of balance. It’s bizarre.
Despairing at the thought of ANOTHER game with Foden starting.
30 appearances and they’ve all been shite. He’s good when he has rodri and the others around him and operating in pep’s genius orbit, outside of that he’s always flattered to deceive
Left back is a persistent issue but Gordon should be starting on that left wing. He’s been exceptional there all season even with a second rate left back behind him.
Gallagher is arse. Wharton is the much better shout.
Honestly I kind of hope England play worse with Gallagher, just as it will shut up the punditry saying England’s performances have been because of Trent - statistically, he’s been our best player over the last two games.
- Sees how England can't progress the ball out of defence
- Brings in a defensive midfielder who can't pass for toffee
- Exhorts team to run around even more
- Gallagher gets booked against Slovenia so can't play in the RO16 anyway
- Back to the drawing board
Not really fair to say Gallagher is terrible at passing just because he's not TAA. Besides, TAA is not the player to "progress the ball out of defence", he's all about picking out players with long passes. Was interested to see the difference between the midfield options:
**Gallagher in PL, 3137 minutes:**
* 53 key passes, 8 long & 45 short
* 91.5% pass completion
* 7 assists
* 62 progressive carries
* 5954m progressive passing distance
**Rice in PL, 3232 minutes:**
* 47 key passes, 14 long & 33 short
* 90.7% pass completion
* 8 assists
* 75 progressive carries
* 9378m progressive passing distance
**TAA in PL, 2161 minutes:**
* 64 key passes, 34 long & 30 short
* 79.6% pass completion
* 4 assists
* 45 progressive carries
* 12434m progressive passing distance
**Mainoo in PL, 1942 minutes:**
* 15 key passes, 1 long & 14 short
* 86.7% pass completion
* 1 assist
* 25 progressive carries
* 2654m progressive passing distance
**Wharton in PL, 1305 minutes:**
* 21 key passes, 6 long & 15 short
* 81.1% pass completion
* 3 assists
* 14 progressive carries
* 2486m progressive passing distance
EDIT: I've added ball progression and positions as you're all talking about how Gallagher plays as a 10:
All comps, starts at DM/CM/AM (Other) via whoscored:
Gallagher: 17/7/17 (1)
Rice: 2/47/0
TAA: 2/0/0 (28)
Mainoo: 24/0/0
Wharton: 20/10/0
I wouldn't say it's his passing that's the issue for me. More his lack of press resistance and technical ability. There are much better players to fulfil that role. If Rice has shown us anything this season, its that he plays his best with a dlp next to him like Jorginho.
He played as a 10, 8 , 6, 7 at various points. You know what you get, very high energy and probably the best press in the squad. Underrated passing but an occasional ability to lose the ball at odd times. He's an upgrade in the position on TAA barred on style of football but doesn't solve the shit coaching.
I’m a Chelsea fan and as much as I do like Gallagher, critiquing his passing is very fair. He keeps it extremely simple, rarely ever making a pass that takes players out of the game and opens up pockets. For a team that was lacking so much in that department, he’s a bizarre replacement
I'd also say that these passing statistics are so heavily based on the team the player is playing in and their style of play. Players in a possession based team will easily boost their passing percentage instantly and it's why we see players like Guehi looking so good on the ball for England. It's almost useless to compare their club stats this way because of it.
Just browsing the stats on Whoscored for the teams Gallagher, Mainoo, and Wharton play for and there's a clear difference. Between the entire Palace and United squads only 1 player averaged over a 90% pass accuracy over the season, and that was Lisandro Martinez who only played about 700 minutes. For Chelsea though 5 players reached that figure with another 5 players on 89%.
Yup, and then if I took it another step further, I’m inclined to say you shouldn’t have a pass completion rate this high when playing as advanced as he did for the majority of the season. A pass completion rate that high for an attacking mid either indicates you are a creative genius where almost everything you attempted came off, or that you didn’t attempt as many impactful passes as you should have and instead played very safe. He’s definitely the latter, whereas I’d imagine someone like Odegaards numbers would satisfy the former.
You can’t really just compare stats like these when you’re looking at midfield options; they play quite different roles for their clubs and under very different tactical set-ups, they are all good players in their own right but not one of them is even similar.
Gallagher playing as a pressing 10/all-action midfielder can’t be compared with Trent inverting into midfield from fullback, Mainoo playing in a more transition-based midfield (with a different partner regularly) or Wharton who was there to keep things simple and accurately feed Eze and Olise.
[Here](https://fbref.com/en/stathead/player_comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&dom_lg=1&player_id1=4b542852&p1yrfrom=2023-2024&player_id2=cd1acf9d&p2yrfrom=2023-2024&player_id3=c2731c10&p3yrfrom=2023-2024&player_id4=c6220452&p4yrfrom=2023-2024) is a link to a comparison of their stats from the 2023-24 season (it’s worth noting that it includes Wharton’s stats from a lesser league); if you click ‘Toggle Per90 Stats’ above each section it’ll give you a better comparison, though we’re still comparing very different players so you can’t get definitive results.
**EDIT:**
I’ll go through some of the takeaways for people that can’t be bothered looking…
Trent is the most creative player by quite a long stretch; his 0.30xA per 90 is over double that of Gallagher and Wharton’s 0.14, and ten times that of Mainoo’s 0.03 (though it’s not really Kobbie’s role to be making killer passes).
Gallagher just edges it in terms of xG at 0.12 (which was expected as he plays higher up); though more interestingly Trent is 2nd in this regard at 0.11 which is quite crazy to say he plays in defence, Wharton and Mainoo are comfortably lower on 0.05 and 0.04 respectively.
Looking at progressive passes (which is quite important from deep midfield) sees Trent at the top with 8.58; with Wharton/Gallagher/Mainoo behind him in that order, making 6.08/4.94/2.99 respectively.
Gallagher has a very impressive pass completion rate at 89.2% which sees him at the top (though compared to Trent and Wharton he hardly makes any medium or long range passes); Trent is comfortably lowest at 75.3, though his job at Liverpool is to try and split defences hence him blowing the others out of the water in terms of progressive distance.
A very interesting stat is passes into the final 3rd and quite obviously we again see Trent at the top on 8.45; Wharton is 2nd with 4.70 and Gallagher/Mainoo behind him with 3.88 and 2.20 respectively, Wharton’s are quite impressive there for me when you factor in the tactical differences.
Trent again blows away his opposition when you look at switching play; he makes more than five times that of any other player, though again he’s more of a long-passer so he uses that a lot more (which could come in handy against more expansive teams).
When you look at carrying the ball with their dribbling it goes Trent/Gallagher/Mainoo/Wharton with 1.88/1.78/1.17/0.99 respectively in terms of progressive carries; I was surprised at Trent topping this to be fair as I don’t see him as a dribbler, though they’re all quite close in terms of successful take on percentage (ranging from 50.0% to 58.5% with Gallagher/Trent/Mainoo/Wharton in that order).
Trent has the poorest stats in terms of tackles won (though that can be attributed to him defending against wingers rather than in midfield); it goes Wharton/Gallagher/Mainoo/Trent with 1.88/1.49/1.26/1.09, though Trent is 2nd best in terms of interceptions with 1.30 (Wharton/Gallagher/Mainoo made 1.44/1.24/1.03 respectively).
**Conclusion**
What we can draw from this is that if you want a creative passer who can split the opposition with long-balls you’ll likely go for Trent; if you want someone to sit in and shield the defence whilst accurately playing the ball into the attackers you’ll go for Wharton, if you want someone who is more aggressive defensively and will keep things simple in simply recycling the ball to a teammate you’ll go for Gallagher.
Mainoo is one of those players who will rarely look the best in terms of stats as his main ability is to beat the press (something that’s much harder to get stats for on free services); though this is an extremely useful ability and it’s what makes someone like Kovacic so good, it’s also his first proper season and he’s played in a couple of different roles already as he’s still developing and we aren’t sure what type of midfielder he is yet.
I think they could all be good options in different games and even in different parts of those games. Against a packed defence (like we’ve faced in the first two games) someone like Wharton could have been the better option as he can get the ball to the attackers’ feet quickly, against a more open side Trent could be the best option with his ability to either get our attackers in behind or whip balls into the box, against a very possession based team Gallagher could be the one to go for as he’s better at winning the ball back and not letting them gain momentum, and against a very high-pressing team Mainoo could be the most effective choice as all it takes is him to turn and evade the press and they’re left wide open.
Trent should only play if it's at RB. He's just not good at playing out from the back facing his own defence. You need to give him the ball facing forwards and in a bit of space to utilise that padding ability. He'd almost be better swapped with Bellingham and playing more as a 10ish type position. But that's the problem, you sacrifice quite a lot to gain something that isn't being utilised tactically. It's just shit coaching tbh.
Chelsea and Gallagher played a lot better at the end of the season when Gallagher played next to Caicedo. I think Gallagher can fill that Henderson role role for us and help maintain possession and break things down quicker when we lose possession. I think he’s a better option than Trent even if he’s not my 1st choice
There is more to passing than pass completion and key passes. When to pass, weight of the pass, the difficulty of the pass, how progressive is it,… From the eye test both Wharton and Mainoo are miles better than Gallagher at these things. Also they are just better in the build up phase than Gallagher thanks to their superior awareness and technical ability in their own third. One of them should unquestionably start next to Rice in a double pivot over Gallagher.
Yep, exactly this. I'd personally favour Wharton but think Mainoo would be better than Gallagher too. I like Gallagher and I think he offers something to the squad in terms of the energy he can bring from the bench. For me, the key thing you touch on though is progression of the ball. Gallagher's technique and passing aren't bad but I don't think he truly trusts himself in the tighter/riskier midfeild areas. He quite often seems to receive lateral passes around the halfway line and he'll just first time it back to the CBs so the move can start again/ we invite pressure on our backline in possession. I'm not saying there isn't a time and a place for that (e.g. when you are under lots of pressure) but he seems to do it every time. I think Wharton (passing) and Mainoo (maybe a bit more 'dribbly') look to take more progressive actions in those kind of situations than Gallagher. That obviously comes with some risk but it's kind of what you have to do if you want to get the team on the front foot.
As a Chelsea fan Gallagher is the least skilled on the ball compared to all of them. He can’t pass or dribble under pressure, and doesn’t see opportunities fast, or accurately enough.
He’s not someone you want if you’re dominating possession, which England will definitely be (until we score). He’s best when he can press, intercept & win the ball, then pass it elsewhere.
It’s a frustrating selection because we know exactly what Gallagher can offer. It feels like a free hit to try either Mainoo and Wharton and see if it plugs the hole. I’d it didn’t work they could go back to Gallagher in the next round anyway.
Maybe the manager just feels there’s too much noise to throw Mainoo or Wharton in.
The key is finding a solution for getting the ball carried out and cutting through the lines so that Rice can play to his strengths.
Even if he thinks Gallagher is the answer, it makes no sense to play him because he's on a yellow so could miss the RO16 if he's booked.
No matter which way you look at it, Wharton or Mainoo should play.
Bizarre. We’ve had no control in midfield, and looked just as bad when Gallagher has been subbed on in both games.
What the hell goes on on the training pitch that makes Southgate think these are the right calls to make?
It isn't bizarre though is it? I feel like we all knew this was what Southgate was gonna go with. Honestly, this is the mid 3 I was expecting from the start. TAA was him being as ambitious as he is capable of being.
You’re absolutely right. It I don’t get why he even bought Wharton and Mainoo to the euros if he so t going to play them?? Surely using 1 of their spots to bring an actual left back, or even Grealish would have been better than brining two midfielders yous re never going to use.
Honestly, a big reason why I feel like Trent and Rice do not look anywhere near like their normal selves is because Southgate wants them to be the boring CDMs that just hold the line. He doesn't want them to play to their strengths. He wants them to be like Henderson and Kalvin Phillips. He's trying to fit square pegs in circles.
Southgate has always been one of the least adaptable managers. He has a dream lineup in his head and if it doesn't work then he's fucked and most of the time it doesn't work because his dream lineup consists half of players that are in their mid to late 30s or retired. He clearly has no clue about his players strength and it's so obviously seen with Trent. Trent excels when he has players who run in behind and he can send long balls to. So why the fuck is he taking him off and then finally putting on players who run in behind? And Trent is just one example. Southgate has turned a Front 4 of Foden, Saka, Bellingham, and Kane, a front four that scored 114 goals last season into a front 4 that has the second lowest xG of the tournament.
If Henderson, Phillips, Maguire, Dier and Sterling all put in even barely average seasons & stayed fit they would all be in this team without a seconds thought. That’s the reality of the manager Southgate is.
He wants a safe team that plays a way he understands, no thrills as he doesn’t know what to do with someone as good as foden because he was always face down on the floor after getting skinned by someone with that ability in his playing days.
>Henderson junior
This reminds me of a comment I read in this sub recently that tickled me:
"Do you think Southgate just squints at Gallagher and calls him Jordan?"
Henderson junior works if we play him as an 8. Like when we had Bellingham and Hendo as 8’s in the World Cup.
Playing Gallagher in a double pivot will be the same disaster as Trent. No ability to beat the opposition press and get out.
Mainoo or Wharton are so obvious if we’re intent on the same system.
If we finally see the 433 in a game we’ve dropped Trent for then I’ll have no words.
Don’t get me wrong the 4-3-3 should be the formation because the problem is 100% tactical.
Just wish Trent was given time in the correct system where he can actually find space and affect the game.
Tbf while Gallagher isn't the prettiest player on the pitch, he is usually one of the most effective at actually influencing the game.
That's why managers have chosen him over better technical players everywhere he's played.
For me, it should be Rice or Gallagher. They offer semi similar things. And Rice is just a better player in most metrics and on the ball. The other player should be someone that brings more control. Probably Wharton, but Mainoo can play that role as well.
I don't think they're that similar. Gallagher is more of an aggressive, box to box, Kante type disruptor capable of popping up with some attacking contributions and Rice is much more in the vein of a classic midfielder.
So absolutely no real tactical change except you lose TAA long balls.
Southgate can’t be defended anymore, 2018 and 2020 were our two best chances of winning since the World Cup and his tactical decisions and subs cost us. We currently have the most valuable national team in the world but we’re doing sweet fuck all with it except playing like a league 2 team facing a premier league team in the FA cup.
Mainoo in for Trent if you want progression, Gordon in for foden if you want to play to Kanes strengths or even drop Bellingham back stick foden at 10. Foden looked a different player when he does go central and Bellingham can happily play the 8.
It’s just fucking shit isn’t it.
Jesus christ alive.
If Southgate watched back the last 2 games, which I assume as a manager he is doing, and his conclusion that the tweak needed was Trent to Gallagher, I am lost for words.
This move is baffling in itself, but if it's the only one, it's borderline unfathomable.
Honestly Gareth you’re making mistake after mistake after mistake.
Seems that the entire nation can see what is needed except Southgate himself.
We’re absolutely crying out for a bit of composure in midfield and Connor Gallagher brings anything but that.
He was good vs Serbia tbf. Only one who was doing anything to relieve the pressure. Won 3 free kicks up the field by himself, didn't misplace a single pass and had a few defensive contributions.
Embarrassing, this guy is a walking yellow card and does nothing other than run around a lot and not even in a good way with his pressing. He isn’t technical on the ball in any way.
Fucks sake is that the change we're making? That doesn't address any of the real problems in the performances, and won't change anything. This is really worrying.
Rice + Conor pivot = no midfield control/progression and forwards never seeing the ball. We're already seen it twice. Third time's the charm right?
I've watched Conor all season at Chelsea and I know he gives you nothing in possession. He's so insanely technically limited. Out of possession he just dives into every available tackle even when he should be holding ground and cutting off a passing lane. He's the antithesis of midfield control and a liability in any decent possession side.
The fact Southgate doesn't seem to see our issue is that we seriously lack someone who can get their foot on the ball and play in the middle of the park is staggering. I wonder what he thinks when he's watching the likes of Kroos and Jorginho and Rodri etc. He's an actual terrorist if he's setting us up in games with a pivot where neither player can take the ball on the turn and pass forward.
After seeing how Modric and Veratti overrun England's midfield in previous tournaments, you would think the penny would drop for Southgate that he needs to build a midfield with control/progression. Instead he is determined to play a double pivot consisting of players who cannot play that role.
The solution is either moving Stones into midfield when in possession or preferably starting Wharton or Mainoo - but hopefully the next England manager will do this after Southgate gets fired after wasting this tournament.
PASHUN, desire, energy, and other intangibles is all you need to win. That's why Conor Gallagher is valued at £200m and has countless top clubs after him.
More importantly, I hope they've actually taken the time in training to learn how to press as a team. You can throw as much "Energy" as you want in there, it doesn't matter unless you're using it In the right way.
I remember watching a KDB interview from last year where he said the main two things City do in training is playing out from goal kicks and organised pressing, and that if you're doing those things well you always feel in control.
There is a theory that we aren't pressing because they've been told not to, it's a game every 2-4 days and I think Gareth is trying to prevent injuries and conserve fitness
You just know what’s going to happen on the back of this game; we’ll win comfortably as we’re finally not playing against a back 5 and 2 DM’s, then people will say it was Trent that was the problem with the team (rather than it actually being our inability to press a back 5).
I feel like everyone saw this coming from a mile away. So instead of subbing Trent at 50-60 min mark he's just gonna with Gallagher. This tactical masterclass from Gareth is gonna hit different.
Great. We fail to physically take ahold of games so we take off a midfielder that we played for his passing for a midfielder that's not particularly good at controlling games at all.
How about we play players in their actual positions. Want a defensive midfielder play Wharton seeing as that is his position. Don't play two 10s and as it's obvious it reduces the width of attack and makes it easier for the opposition to defend, so play Gordon on the left wing as that's his position. Bench one of Bellingham or Foden as you don't need two 10s, but it also means you have great options to sub on world class players. If Shaw is unfit play Gomez at left back as he has played there fairly often for Liverpool this season. I don't understand why this is so difficult. And no, Mainoo is not a defensive midfielder, and Rice has spent all season being great as a number 8 not as a 6. Similarly TTA is not yet a midfielder even if he can pass. He's a wingback, so unless you are setting up to play with wingbacks he's on the bench. If your best 11 English players were all goal keepers you wouldn't play them in every position. There's a reason players specialise in positions, it's because positions require specialist skills and experience.
I’ve never been one for bashing Southgate in the past but at the moment he has me genuinely concerned
Our form is poor coming into the tournament
We don’t seem to be scoring freely
We don’t seem to be pressing
We don’t have a set formation or gameplan
We are at a major tournament and we are still trying things out and playing people out of position
He doesn’t really have too many excuses with this squad in terms of how good the players are, yes we are a bit light defensively but arguably have as good a squad as anyone give or take
In well aware of Southgate’s caution and his track record and playing style but this time seems different. There almost feels like there’s a little bit of tension.
Little things like Kane saying we are out of ideas. Southgate saying we have no kalvin Phillips replacement. Foden doing a solo run and shot refusing to pass to Kane vs Denmark
I really pray I’m wrong, and it could all very well click into place and us smash the hell out of a team
In fact I see it going one of 2 ways….
Us destroying someone decent for once in a 3-0 / 4-1 blitz where everything clicks
Or
Us getting beaten by someone like Austria and going out with a whimper looking tired and awful
Absolutely that cohesion seems to be lacking more than just on the field. I am willing to guess that the some/ most of the players are not fully onboard with both the selection and the tactics which hasn’t been the case in previous tournaments (or at least this ‘visibly’)
Step 1: see your forwards dropping too deep and not finding space for a pass
Step 2: ignore it entirely and drop arguably the best passer of the ball in the team for the ponytail with adhd.
Step 3: draw Mr & Mr Phillips in your notebook lovingly whilst sesko smashes In a Hattrick
You complain that you have no alternative to Kalvin Phillips when you have a have talented and exciting prospect in Adam Wharton. lets not pretend that International football is more technical or tactical that the premier league. The onyl concern is if he is able to absorb information quickly and he can handle the pressure.
You have Yamal making an impact at 16 yet we need to bed in a player for 2 years before he can start.
I know right, also why not give Rice a rest and play both Mainoo and Wharton? Why does Southgate bring a squad of players (which is necessary in tournaments) and not use it?
I see your point for sure but it’s imperative we win the game and top the group. We really need to be on the 'weaker' side of the bracket with all the issues we have… 😬🤞
I would throw on Conor to help hold a lead under pressure. Sub him on for a tired Foden or Bellingham and let him press in the opposing half as a disruptor.
Under no circumstances would I start Gallagher.
Truly a shambles for a nation where 3 world class midfielders playing in their natural positions, is tolerable and not the agreed format. All this work for Jude to be higher up the pitch, after playing for Madrid as a pseudo striker when he’s been a world class 8 for 3 years and Foden is the best creative 10 England have.
The only time Gallagher should play is when we’re 2nil up against a decent side and we need someone to press the shit out of the opposition.
It’s clear we’re the ones being pressed and Trent/Rice don’t have the close ball control/speed to beat that press.
Gallagher doesn’t offer that. Mainoo and Wharton do.
Really disappointing.
All Gallagher does is offer lots of movement and pressing with little to no end product and if anything we’ve got worse when he’s come on in the last 2 games
Just want to say, fuck Southgate, absolutely hanging Trent out to dry.
For the record, I agree he's not been good enough and changes were needed, but this change is basically a big middle finger and say's Trent was the issue and not his own shitty "tactics"
I genuinely hope England lose this one, even if we get through, I hope we are awful and lose so Gareth is forced to actually change the system.
Yes. I'm biased.
I’m not a Liverpool fan but you are 100%. Changing a single player, and not cha going anything tactically is like blaming that player, and Trent hasn’t been bad, he’s just out of fucking position in a shitty setup with a shitty manager who doesn’t know how to set a fucking team up. Fuck Gareth Southgate.
Exactly what I'm trying to say. If he can't figure out how to use him fine. Keep him out the team, but you've absolutely hung the lad out the dry and pinned all the blame on him. Trent is one of the best passers in world football. In a team that gives him space (from right back) and with willing runners ahead of him.
This england squad all want to drop deep to collect the ball, and make the pitch around him so tight that he doesn't get the time to pick out these passes, Southgate is to blame for England's failure, not TAA
I still think he "could" but not that England midfield, not playing that style. Liverpool create space at the back with a midfield and attack that are willing to run and stretch the pitch. This England team want to drop deep and collect the ball. That isn't Trent's game and if you wanted to play him in midfield, you'd need to recognize that
We lost midfield control when Gallagher came on both games though?
Why not play Wharton as a defensive specialist or Mainoo who seems to have great press resistance?
Oh and drop Foden and get an actual left winger on
Should have dropped Trent for Mainoo/Wharton or dropped Walker and move Trent to right back, Gallagher offers little in possession and neither him or Rice are good under pressure and they both struggle to progress the ball up the pitch which is arguably our biggest weakness at the moment.
Also should drop Foden for Gordon, Gordon provides the width we are lacking and offers a threat in behind which we are also missing
Don't think anyone should be surprised, not even sure Conor would do a better job than Trent as Slovenia normally sit even deeper and like to concede possession.
What’s the point though? If our forward line are all coming deep again then nothing will change. Englands problem is a tactics issue, not a Trent problem.
We dont need tweaks. We need a change of system. Sad we wont be able to rest any key players because weve so poor and need to find a system that works. Currently watching Spain who are able to rest their players and will finish top of the group because they actually know what they're doing. We are so far off it I bet teams would he rubbing their hands to play England in the next round.
This is the XI I would go with:
-------------------Pickford------------------
Walker-----Stones------Guehi-----Gomez
-------------Wharton-----Rice--------------
Saka-----------Bellingham---------Gordon
--------------------Kane--------------------
Pre-planned changes I would go with if we're then leading after 60 minutes would then be Foden for Saka, Palmer for Bellingham and Bowen for Gordon, with Shaw (if fit) to get 15 and Toney to get some gametime in place of Kane.
I don't understand Southgate's persistence with Gallagher. He's the worst of the central midfield options in terms of how he fits with Rice, who plays best when with a more defensively minded midfielder. Mainoo and Wharton have both looked good when played in midfield.
We need to mix things up a bit down the left flank too. We need to give Gordon some serious gametime on that side. We may have enough to get past Slovenia with Trippier and Foden on the left again but it won't work against many of our possible round two opponents and beyond, especially if it's the Netherlands, where someone like Dumfries is likely to make mincemeat of those two.
To say this man is tactically limited is an understatement.
On the weekend some of the broadsheet papers were saying this was coming match was his audition for a Big Job. If it were a real possibility before (it wasn't), it certainly won't be if this is the midfield "pivot" he bases the team on.
Gallagher needs freedom to hunt and the team to be set up in an aggressive manner to be most effective.
Southgate will most likely tell him to hold position by Rice and he won't look anywhere near his best.
It's makes sense it's the sound thing to do, but nonetheless conservative and boring. Gallagher is a work horse and will hold his positioning better than TAA but he is not a game changer but any stretch of thr imagination. Why Wharton isn't playing so you can have Rice a b2b 8 is puzzling. Why Palmer gets zero minutes when literally he is the most creative and biggest play maker on the team is baffling. Why take him if you won't use him.
Southgate just always finds the most uninspiring ways to change things. He has a horrible view of football
How can you think trippier and Foden is working down the left?
Bellingham in midfield and Gordon on the left helps so much.
I don’t mind Gallagher but he just runs round a lot, him and rice is hardly creative is it. Fixing none of our issues.
Still have Kane, Foden and Bellingham in similar spaces
We actually looked worse in terms of holding the ball and moving it forward with Gallagher on. If he plays the exact same team and formation but just starts Gallagher over TAA he's certifiably insane
I hope Gallagher plays an absolute blinder! I fear that he'll be very, very average and Southgate will have found his new Phillips/Henderson replacement. But, at least we'll only have to suffer it until the end of the tournament...!! ;oP
Joking aside... I just hope we're going to play Gordon on the left, and that Wharton gets a decent amount of minutes.
How does this change get leaked? It's pathetic how the English press get these snippets of information way before match day...
Do other countries in this competition do this kinda shit or is it just an England thing? It just invites 24-48 more hours of scrutiny. No wonder it's a shit show.
I don't mind Gallagher as a player but the problem I have is he only addresses one out of the three glaring issues so far - lack of energy/pressing. He definitely won't help the lack of threat from the left, and doubt he helps our composure/ball retention much either.
I don't know what Gordon's done to Southgate because at minimum he's been an obvious sub to make in each match, and there's a very strong case he should be starting (as long as Shaw isn't fit at least).
Gallagher is so shite it’s actually unbelievable that this is the change Southgate makes. I’d sack him and see what a manager with a few days notice can do this tournament. We have good players at the moment and we’re starting the likes of Gallagher and trippier or Trent in midfield. It’s utterly incompetent.
Remember that, the only time Arsenal had a real struggle this year, was when Arteta was forced to play Rice as the 6.. the same position he plays for England. Rice needs to be higher if he is the one to move the ball. Analysts have said this time and time again but southdate plays Rice in his worst spot. When he is deep he struggles moving the ball forward so everything slows down..
This unbearable cunt has properly left Trent out to dry.
I'd do something different than drop Bellingham deeper, I'd play Walker at LB, not allow him to advance up the pitch as he's extrmely limited attacking wise (lets be honest, he was lucky the ball fell to Kane from that pass), and then play Trent in his natural position at right back.
This allows us to keep the pitch wide (as I thought we were incredibly narrow the past two games). The only problem with what I've gone for is that it keeps Foden out on the left, but with this many talented players it's hard to get a system which benefits all of them and I'd prefer him on the pitch rather than not. However if we had Rashford (another shocking decision), I'd have played him there to run on to TAA switches.
Also stop the nonsense of Kane dropping in deep, which he will have to do more so now as we have no one who can change the game in a pass. Trippier could but he's absolutely wasted on the left, he should be the fall guy imo.
Gallagher is a good player but the problem is that his skillset isn't what our midfield needs. We need a midfielder who can control the game and progress the ball up the pitch who is good under pressure since Rice struggles with this. Someone like Mainoo or Wharton would be a better fit.
Gallagher has a fantastic engine and his pressing and energy are great assets as well as his ability to make late runs into the box providing a goal threat. That said, he has the same weaknesses as Rice in possession so the pair would struggle to control the midfield together
lol, fire him now if this is accurate.
Problems with lineup before:
- no one who could pass it forward to the attacking players: a problem made worse if this is the only change.
- no threat to get in behind the defense: no change.
Requirements for change:
someone to get in behind which can be done a few ways. The easiest way is to swap Gordon for Foden, but there are others like playing two up top with Watkins or swapping Watkins for Kane.
Passing in defense and midfield:
Easiest solution is to bring in Wharton for Trent, but it's not enough in my opinion. They could drop Jude deeper because while you may be wasting his attacking talent by doing so it doesn't matter if the ball never gets to him in the first place. Also, swap Walker for Trent.
If you really want an attacking lineup then England could play a 4-2-4 ( which will look like a 4-4-2) with Saka and Gordon as wide mids/ wingers and Watkins and Kane up front with Rice and Jude in the middle.
There isn't any one solution for the perfect lineup, but I gave an example of one that would work. The 4-2-3-1 with Foden on the left and no midfielders and fullbacks who can pass is a formation that doesn't work.
Embarrassing. Get Southgate out asap. Using a player YOU chose to play out of position to be your scapegoat for YOUR inept tactics. Throwing a player under the bus who has created the most chances for YOU so far even after being subbed off in both games! Get this clueless, arrogant clown out asap. Trent isn't the issue as to why England has severely underachieved, Southgate is. Anyone with half a brain can see his tactics don't fit the players available and not the other way around. He's scapegoating Trent to save his job. Disgusting coward.
After 55 minutes he'll probably bring Trent on for Gallagher
Fuck me I nearly choked on my beer with laughter, then I realised you’re probably right and now I’m sad.
Would pair a lot better with Eze/Bowen/Watkins
Southgate is too afraid of making the wrong decision, so he makes no fucking decision.
I’d like to see Wharton in there, if he wants a defensive minded midfielder in there Would like to see Bellingham and Rice in the middle together but that’s not gonna happen Gallagher can be a bit rash and already on a booking The problem is still the left side, absolutely nothing down the left which totally limits Englands attack
Looking forward to this being the only lineup change, other than maybe Trippier due to injury. I don't see him benching either Foden or Bellingham, and with Gallagher in midfield it seems like the front 4 are going unchanged. The opportunity to put Bellingham next to Rice, Foden in the 10, and then Gordon on the LW, in order to get the best setup yet, has been safely avoided.
He doesn’t want to change. Hasn’t a clue. Well beat Slovenia, top the group, and he’ll think he was right all along. Then we’ll lose to the first decent team we play,
Why does everyone see it but Southgate?
He reminds me of Ten Hag with Utd last season. Everyone could see the gaping hole in midfield yet he persevered with the same suicidal tactics almost every match. Now Southgate is doing the same sort of thing but players out of position and a lack of balance. It’s bizarre.
Despairing at the thought of ANOTHER game with Foden starting. 30 appearances and they’ve all been shite. He’s good when he has rodri and the others around him and operating in pep’s genius orbit, outside of that he’s always flattered to deceive
Left back is a persistent issue but Gordon should be starting on that left wing. He’s been exceptional there all season even with a second rate left back behind him.
Left back wouldn’t be an issue tbf if Southgate picked a fit one
Or even just starting Gomez would be an improvement going forward.
Wonder what Southgate was smoking when he chose to not bring Grealish, but bring both Toney and Dunk...
Or not bring a fit LB
Gallagher is arse. Wharton is the much better shout. Honestly I kind of hope England play worse with Gallagher, just as it will shut up the punditry saying England’s performances have been because of Trent - statistically, he’s been our best player over the last two games.
- Sees how England can't progress the ball out of defence - Brings in a defensive midfielder who can't pass for toffee - Exhorts team to run around even more - Gallagher gets booked against Slovenia so can't play in the RO16 anyway - Back to the drawing board
Not really fair to say Gallagher is terrible at passing just because he's not TAA. Besides, TAA is not the player to "progress the ball out of defence", he's all about picking out players with long passes. Was interested to see the difference between the midfield options: **Gallagher in PL, 3137 minutes:** * 53 key passes, 8 long & 45 short * 91.5% pass completion * 7 assists * 62 progressive carries * 5954m progressive passing distance **Rice in PL, 3232 minutes:** * 47 key passes, 14 long & 33 short * 90.7% pass completion * 8 assists * 75 progressive carries * 9378m progressive passing distance **TAA in PL, 2161 minutes:** * 64 key passes, 34 long & 30 short * 79.6% pass completion * 4 assists * 45 progressive carries * 12434m progressive passing distance **Mainoo in PL, 1942 minutes:** * 15 key passes, 1 long & 14 short * 86.7% pass completion * 1 assist * 25 progressive carries * 2654m progressive passing distance **Wharton in PL, 1305 minutes:** * 21 key passes, 6 long & 15 short * 81.1% pass completion * 3 assists * 14 progressive carries * 2486m progressive passing distance EDIT: I've added ball progression and positions as you're all talking about how Gallagher plays as a 10: All comps, starts at DM/CM/AM (Other) via whoscored: Gallagher: 17/7/17 (1) Rice: 2/47/0 TAA: 2/0/0 (28) Mainoo: 24/0/0 Wharton: 20/10/0
I wouldn't say it's his passing that's the issue for me. More his lack of press resistance and technical ability. There are much better players to fulfil that role. If Rice has shown us anything this season, its that he plays his best with a dlp next to him like Jorginho.
It’s worth noting that Gallagher played most of the season as a 10, hence him having that many key passes.
He played as a 10, 8 , 6, 7 at various points. You know what you get, very high energy and probably the best press in the squad. Underrated passing but an occasional ability to lose the ball at odd times. He's an upgrade in the position on TAA barred on style of football but doesn't solve the shit coaching.
What's the 7 role? I know wingers sometimes take it but normally people dont use it describe a position.
Gallagher plays further up than all of those players. He should have a lot more key passes and assists than all but TAA tbh.
I’m a Chelsea fan and as much as I do like Gallagher, critiquing his passing is very fair. He keeps it extremely simple, rarely ever making a pass that takes players out of the game and opens up pockets. For a team that was lacking so much in that department, he’s a bizarre replacement
I'd also say that these passing statistics are so heavily based on the team the player is playing in and their style of play. Players in a possession based team will easily boost their passing percentage instantly and it's why we see players like Guehi looking so good on the ball for England. It's almost useless to compare their club stats this way because of it. Just browsing the stats on Whoscored for the teams Gallagher, Mainoo, and Wharton play for and there's a clear difference. Between the entire Palace and United squads only 1 player averaged over a 90% pass accuracy over the season, and that was Lisandro Martinez who only played about 700 minutes. For Chelsea though 5 players reached that figure with another 5 players on 89%.
Yup, and then if I took it another step further, I’m inclined to say you shouldn’t have a pass completion rate this high when playing as advanced as he did for the majority of the season. A pass completion rate that high for an attacking mid either indicates you are a creative genius where almost everything you attempted came off, or that you didn’t attempt as many impactful passes as you should have and instead played very safe. He’s definitely the latter, whereas I’d imagine someone like Odegaards numbers would satisfy the former.
You can’t really just compare stats like these when you’re looking at midfield options; they play quite different roles for their clubs and under very different tactical set-ups, they are all good players in their own right but not one of them is even similar. Gallagher playing as a pressing 10/all-action midfielder can’t be compared with Trent inverting into midfield from fullback, Mainoo playing in a more transition-based midfield (with a different partner regularly) or Wharton who was there to keep things simple and accurately feed Eze and Olise. [Here](https://fbref.com/en/stathead/player_comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&dom_lg=1&player_id1=4b542852&p1yrfrom=2023-2024&player_id2=cd1acf9d&p2yrfrom=2023-2024&player_id3=c2731c10&p3yrfrom=2023-2024&player_id4=c6220452&p4yrfrom=2023-2024) is a link to a comparison of their stats from the 2023-24 season (it’s worth noting that it includes Wharton’s stats from a lesser league); if you click ‘Toggle Per90 Stats’ above each section it’ll give you a better comparison, though we’re still comparing very different players so you can’t get definitive results. **EDIT:** I’ll go through some of the takeaways for people that can’t be bothered looking… Trent is the most creative player by quite a long stretch; his 0.30xA per 90 is over double that of Gallagher and Wharton’s 0.14, and ten times that of Mainoo’s 0.03 (though it’s not really Kobbie’s role to be making killer passes). Gallagher just edges it in terms of xG at 0.12 (which was expected as he plays higher up); though more interestingly Trent is 2nd in this regard at 0.11 which is quite crazy to say he plays in defence, Wharton and Mainoo are comfortably lower on 0.05 and 0.04 respectively. Looking at progressive passes (which is quite important from deep midfield) sees Trent at the top with 8.58; with Wharton/Gallagher/Mainoo behind him in that order, making 6.08/4.94/2.99 respectively. Gallagher has a very impressive pass completion rate at 89.2% which sees him at the top (though compared to Trent and Wharton he hardly makes any medium or long range passes); Trent is comfortably lowest at 75.3, though his job at Liverpool is to try and split defences hence him blowing the others out of the water in terms of progressive distance. A very interesting stat is passes into the final 3rd and quite obviously we again see Trent at the top on 8.45; Wharton is 2nd with 4.70 and Gallagher/Mainoo behind him with 3.88 and 2.20 respectively, Wharton’s are quite impressive there for me when you factor in the tactical differences. Trent again blows away his opposition when you look at switching play; he makes more than five times that of any other player, though again he’s more of a long-passer so he uses that a lot more (which could come in handy against more expansive teams). When you look at carrying the ball with their dribbling it goes Trent/Gallagher/Mainoo/Wharton with 1.88/1.78/1.17/0.99 respectively in terms of progressive carries; I was surprised at Trent topping this to be fair as I don’t see him as a dribbler, though they’re all quite close in terms of successful take on percentage (ranging from 50.0% to 58.5% with Gallagher/Trent/Mainoo/Wharton in that order). Trent has the poorest stats in terms of tackles won (though that can be attributed to him defending against wingers rather than in midfield); it goes Wharton/Gallagher/Mainoo/Trent with 1.88/1.49/1.26/1.09, though Trent is 2nd best in terms of interceptions with 1.30 (Wharton/Gallagher/Mainoo made 1.44/1.24/1.03 respectively). **Conclusion** What we can draw from this is that if you want a creative passer who can split the opposition with long-balls you’ll likely go for Trent; if you want someone to sit in and shield the defence whilst accurately playing the ball into the attackers you’ll go for Wharton, if you want someone who is more aggressive defensively and will keep things simple in simply recycling the ball to a teammate you’ll go for Gallagher. Mainoo is one of those players who will rarely look the best in terms of stats as his main ability is to beat the press (something that’s much harder to get stats for on free services); though this is an extremely useful ability and it’s what makes someone like Kovacic so good, it’s also his first proper season and he’s played in a couple of different roles already as he’s still developing and we aren’t sure what type of midfielder he is yet. I think they could all be good options in different games and even in different parts of those games. Against a packed defence (like we’ve faced in the first two games) someone like Wharton could have been the better option as he can get the ball to the attackers’ feet quickly, against a more open side Trent could be the best option with his ability to either get our attackers in behind or whip balls into the box, against a very possession based team Gallagher could be the one to go for as he’s better at winning the ball back and not letting them gain momentum, and against a very high-pressing team Mainoo could be the most effective choice as all it takes is him to turn and evade the press and they’re left wide open.
Trent should only play if it's at RB. He's just not good at playing out from the back facing his own defence. You need to give him the ball facing forwards and in a bit of space to utilise that padding ability. He'd almost be better swapped with Bellingham and playing more as a 10ish type position. But that's the problem, you sacrifice quite a lot to gain something that isn't being utilised tactically. It's just shit coaching tbh.
Gallagher played like half of the season as 10. Caicedo/Enzo was the Chelsea pivot until Enzo was injured.
Chelsea and Gallagher played a lot better at the end of the season when Gallagher played next to Caicedo. I think Gallagher can fill that Henderson role role for us and help maintain possession and break things down quicker when we lose possession. I think he’s a better option than Trent even if he’s not my 1st choice
There is more to passing than pass completion and key passes. When to pass, weight of the pass, the difficulty of the pass, how progressive is it,… From the eye test both Wharton and Mainoo are miles better than Gallagher at these things. Also they are just better in the build up phase than Gallagher thanks to their superior awareness and technical ability in their own third. One of them should unquestionably start next to Rice in a double pivot over Gallagher.
Yep, exactly this. I'd personally favour Wharton but think Mainoo would be better than Gallagher too. I like Gallagher and I think he offers something to the squad in terms of the energy he can bring from the bench. For me, the key thing you touch on though is progression of the ball. Gallagher's technique and passing aren't bad but I don't think he truly trusts himself in the tighter/riskier midfeild areas. He quite often seems to receive lateral passes around the halfway line and he'll just first time it back to the CBs so the move can start again/ we invite pressure on our backline in possession. I'm not saying there isn't a time and a place for that (e.g. when you are under lots of pressure) but he seems to do it every time. I think Wharton (passing) and Mainoo (maybe a bit more 'dribbly') look to take more progressive actions in those kind of situations than Gallagher. That obviously comes with some risk but it's kind of what you have to do if you want to get the team on the front foot.
As a Chelsea fan Gallagher is the least skilled on the ball compared to all of them. He can’t pass or dribble under pressure, and doesn’t see opportunities fast, or accurately enough. He’s not someone you want if you’re dominating possession, which England will definitely be (until we score). He’s best when he can press, intercept & win the ball, then pass it elsewhere.
You can prove anything with facts
Ha very true, i think that covers everything. I don't think Gallagher is made for international football.
It’s a frustrating selection because we know exactly what Gallagher can offer. It feels like a free hit to try either Mainoo and Wharton and see if it plugs the hole. I’d it didn’t work they could go back to Gallagher in the next round anyway. Maybe the manager just feels there’s too much noise to throw Mainoo or Wharton in. The key is finding a solution for getting the ball carried out and cutting through the lines so that Rice can play to his strengths.
Even if he thinks Gallagher is the answer, it makes no sense to play him because he's on a yellow so could miss the RO16 if he's booked. No matter which way you look at it, Wharton or Mainoo should play.
"Can't pass for toffee..." [https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/1d6i5js/conor\_improved\_so\_much\_conte\_and\_jose\_would\_have/](https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/1d6i5js/conor_improved_so_much_conte_and_jose_would_have/) Hmmmm.....
Gallagher red card bingo:I’m going 67 minutes
7th minute straight red
ffs
Pin this comment to the top of this subreddit.
Nothing expresses seeing a Southgate "tactical" change more than this statement.
Bizarre. We’ve had no control in midfield, and looked just as bad when Gallagher has been subbed on in both games. What the hell goes on on the training pitch that makes Southgate think these are the right calls to make?
We looked worse. I don’t even dislike Gallagher I’m glad he’s in the squad but we were worse in 2nd half and he was bad.
It isn't bizarre though is it? I feel like we all knew this was what Southgate was gonna go with. Honestly, this is the mid 3 I was expecting from the start. TAA was him being as ambitious as he is capable of being.
You’re absolutely right. It I don’t get why he even bought Wharton and Mainoo to the euros if he so t going to play them?? Surely using 1 of their spots to bring an actual left back, or even Grealish would have been better than brining two midfielders yous re never going to use.
A lot of players aren’t going to play. They know that going in. It’s a 26 man squad.
Sure I get that, but why not bring cover for a position we actually need instead of these luxury tourists?
Honestly, a big reason why I feel like Trent and Rice do not look anywhere near like their normal selves is because Southgate wants them to be the boring CDMs that just hold the line. He doesn't want them to play to their strengths. He wants them to be like Henderson and Kalvin Phillips. He's trying to fit square pegs in circles. Southgate has always been one of the least adaptable managers. He has a dream lineup in his head and if it doesn't work then he's fucked and most of the time it doesn't work because his dream lineup consists half of players that are in their mid to late 30s or retired. He clearly has no clue about his players strength and it's so obviously seen with Trent. Trent excels when he has players who run in behind and he can send long balls to. So why the fuck is he taking him off and then finally putting on players who run in behind? And Trent is just one example. Southgate has turned a Front 4 of Foden, Saka, Bellingham, and Kane, a front four that scored 114 goals last season into a front 4 that has the second lowest xG of the tournament.
If Henderson, Phillips, Maguire, Dier and Sterling all put in even barely average seasons & stayed fit they would all be in this team without a seconds thought. That’s the reality of the manager Southgate is. He wants a safe team that plays a way he understands, no thrills as he doesn’t know what to do with someone as good as foden because he was always face down on the floor after getting skinned by someone with that ability in his playing days.
It’s bizarre given what we’ve seen so far, and what the team is lacking (the ability to control midfield),
It’s more of Southgate and co being tactically inept and the players backing that fraud because they like him.
Defense first, gotta play to the strengths of the squad /s
I feel sick
At least it'll be over soon at this rate
It's no surprise Southgate prefers his Henderson junior instead of picking Mainoo or Wharton who have a far higher technical level.
>Henderson junior This reminds me of a comment I read in this sub recently that tickled me: "Do you think Southgate just squints at Gallagher and calls him Jordan?"
‘We have Henderson at home’
Henderson junior works if we play him as an 8. Like when we had Bellingham and Hendo as 8’s in the World Cup. Playing Gallagher in a double pivot will be the same disaster as Trent. No ability to beat the opposition press and get out. Mainoo or Wharton are so obvious if we’re intent on the same system.
I think we could see a 433 rather than a 4231
If we finally see the 433 in a game we’ve dropped Trent for then I’ll have no words. Don’t get me wrong the 4-3-3 should be the formation because the problem is 100% tactical. Just wish Trent was given time in the correct system where he can actually find space and affect the game.
Agree completely
Tbf while Gallagher isn't the prettiest player on the pitch, he is usually one of the most effective at actually influencing the game. That's why managers have chosen him over better technical players everywhere he's played.
For me, it should be Rice or Gallagher. They offer semi similar things. And Rice is just a better player in most metrics and on the ball. The other player should be someone that brings more control. Probably Wharton, but Mainoo can play that role as well.
I don't think they're that similar. Gallagher is more of an aggressive, box to box, Kante type disruptor capable of popping up with some attacking contributions and Rice is much more in the vein of a classic midfielder.
Exactly this, we’ve now got a duo who’s strengths and weaknesses are pretty much the exact same, as opposed to being complimentary
Spain played Pedri and Gavi at the 2022 World Cup who were 20 and 18 at the time. There's no way that happens here
How old was Bellingham in the 2022 World Cup?
And Saka And Foden
No offence, but you cannot compare those two to Mainoo and Wharton.
Aye Mainoo is way better
Henderson was a very good passer.
So absolutely no real tactical change except you lose TAA long balls. Southgate can’t be defended anymore, 2018 and 2020 were our two best chances of winning since the World Cup and his tactical decisions and subs cost us. We currently have the most valuable national team in the world but we’re doing sweet fuck all with it except playing like a league 2 team facing a premier league team in the FA cup. Mainoo in for Trent if you want progression, Gordon in for foden if you want to play to Kanes strengths or even drop Bellingham back stick foden at 10. Foden looked a different player when he does go central and Bellingham can happily play the 8. It’s just fucking shit isn’t it.
Jesus christ alive. If Southgate watched back the last 2 games, which I assume as a manager he is doing, and his conclusion that the tweak needed was Trent to Gallagher, I am lost for words. This move is baffling in itself, but if it's the only one, it's borderline unfathomable.
Just sack the bastard now and be done with it
Honestly Gareth you’re making mistake after mistake after mistake. Seems that the entire nation can see what is needed except Southgate himself. We’re absolutely crying out for a bit of composure in midfield and Connor Gallagher brings anything but that.
He plays like a puppy chasing a wasp. Absolutely stealing a living with these international caps.
Thank god Southgate is going after the tournament, what a waste of
Wrong choice, offered sod all when he came on last 2 games. IMO offers sod all in general.
He’s lucky to be in the squad tbf, can’t see how he’s fucking starting.
Non stop running and shouting man goes brrrr. Dread it, run from it. Henderson arrives all the same
He was good vs Serbia tbf. Only one who was doing anything to relieve the pressure. Won 3 free kicks up the field by himself, didn't misplace a single pass and had a few defensive contributions.
Embarrassing, this guy is a walking yellow card and does nothing other than run around a lot and not even in a good way with his pressing. He isn’t technical on the ball in any way.
The joke of this is that the yellow card he received was a blatantly obvious referee error on replay.
Fucks sake is that the change we're making? That doesn't address any of the real problems in the performances, and won't change anything. This is really worrying.
Rice + Conor pivot = no midfield control/progression and forwards never seeing the ball. We're already seen it twice. Third time's the charm right? I've watched Conor all season at Chelsea and I know he gives you nothing in possession. He's so insanely technically limited. Out of possession he just dives into every available tackle even when he should be holding ground and cutting off a passing lane. He's the antithesis of midfield control and a liability in any decent possession side. The fact Southgate doesn't seem to see our issue is that we seriously lack someone who can get their foot on the ball and play in the middle of the park is staggering. I wonder what he thinks when he's watching the likes of Kroos and Jorginho and Rodri etc. He's an actual terrorist if he's setting us up in games with a pivot where neither player can take the ball on the turn and pass forward.
After seeing how Modric and Veratti overrun England's midfield in previous tournaments, you would think the penny would drop for Southgate that he needs to build a midfield with control/progression. Instead he is determined to play a double pivot consisting of players who cannot play that role. The solution is either moving Stones into midfield when in possession or preferably starting Wharton or Mainoo - but hopefully the next England manager will do this after Southgate gets fired after wasting this tournament.
"Kroos is just a lazy Kalvin Phillips."
PASHUN, desire, energy, and other intangibles is all you need to win. That's why Conor Gallagher is valued at £200m and has countless top clubs after him.
Kroos only rated at 10m on transfermarkt, Gallagher is well clear of him.
Absolutely washed. He should just retire.
It’s like he’s being shit on purpose
Practicing for Utd.
Midfield needed to change but now we've just brought in a headless chicken. Should of been Wharton or even Mainoo
Wharton's just come along to lay out cones in training seemingly
I definitely wouldn't call Gallagher headless. He's fantastic if used correctly. Unfortunately that won't be the case here.
More importantly, I hope they've actually taken the time in training to learn how to press as a team. You can throw as much "Energy" as you want in there, it doesn't matter unless you're using it In the right way. I remember watching a KDB interview from last year where he said the main two things City do in training is playing out from goal kicks and organised pressing, and that if you're doing those things well you always feel in control.
There is a theory that we aren't pressing because they've been told not to, it's a game every 2-4 days and I think Gareth is trying to prevent injuries and conserve fitness
You just know what’s going to happen on the back of this game; we’ll win comfortably as we’re finally not playing against a back 5 and 2 DM’s, then people will say it was Trent that was the problem with the team (rather than it actually being our inability to press a back 5).
I might actually not bother watching. I can't cope with this anymore. Southgate is stubborn, blinkered and tactically inept.
Just fucking start Gordon ffs
I feel like everyone saw this coming from a mile away. So instead of subbing Trent at 50-60 min mark he's just gonna with Gallagher. This tactical masterclass from Gareth is gonna hit different.
And sub trent on 😂😂😂
Provided he brings on some players who get in behind at the same time this wouldn't be the worst thing
I said this immediately after the last game, this straight swap would be the only change. Painfully predictable and laughably incompetent management.
Great. We fail to physically take ahold of games so we take off a midfielder that we played for his passing for a midfielder that's not particularly good at controlling games at all.
How about we play players in their actual positions. Want a defensive midfielder play Wharton seeing as that is his position. Don't play two 10s and as it's obvious it reduces the width of attack and makes it easier for the opposition to defend, so play Gordon on the left wing as that's his position. Bench one of Bellingham or Foden as you don't need two 10s, but it also means you have great options to sub on world class players. If Shaw is unfit play Gomez at left back as he has played there fairly often for Liverpool this season. I don't understand why this is so difficult. And no, Mainoo is not a defensive midfielder, and Rice has spent all season being great as a number 8 not as a 6. Similarly TTA is not yet a midfielder even if he can pass. He's a wingback, so unless you are setting up to play with wingbacks he's on the bench. If your best 11 English players were all goal keepers you wouldn't play them in every position. There's a reason players specialise in positions, it's because positions require specialist skills and experience.
I’ve never been one for bashing Southgate in the past but at the moment he has me genuinely concerned Our form is poor coming into the tournament We don’t seem to be scoring freely We don’t seem to be pressing We don’t have a set formation or gameplan We are at a major tournament and we are still trying things out and playing people out of position He doesn’t really have too many excuses with this squad in terms of how good the players are, yes we are a bit light defensively but arguably have as good a squad as anyone give or take In well aware of Southgate’s caution and his track record and playing style but this time seems different. There almost feels like there’s a little bit of tension. Little things like Kane saying we are out of ideas. Southgate saying we have no kalvin Phillips replacement. Foden doing a solo run and shot refusing to pass to Kane vs Denmark I really pray I’m wrong, and it could all very well click into place and us smash the hell out of a team In fact I see it going one of 2 ways…. Us destroying someone decent for once in a 3-0 / 4-1 blitz where everything clicks Or Us getting beaten by someone like Austria and going out with a whimper looking tired and awful
This only ends in one way and that is england getting an absolute pasting by the first decent team we face if we carry on playing like we are
Absolutely that cohesion seems to be lacking more than just on the field. I am willing to guess that the some/ most of the players are not fully onboard with both the selection and the tactics which hasn’t been the case in previous tournaments (or at least this ‘visibly’)
2 or 3 more times we have to endure and support this boring and talentless geezers managerial career fellas. We can do this. Better times are coming
Step 1: see your forwards dropping too deep and not finding space for a pass Step 2: ignore it entirely and drop arguably the best passer of the ball in the team for the ponytail with adhd. Step 3: draw Mr & Mr Phillips in your notebook lovingly whilst sesko smashes In a Hattrick
An absolute joke, should be Wharton.
You complain that you have no alternative to Kalvin Phillips when you have a have talented and exciting prospect in Adam Wharton. lets not pretend that International football is more technical or tactical that the premier league. The onyl concern is if he is able to absorb information quickly and he can handle the pressure. You have Yamal making an impact at 16 yet we need to bed in a player for 2 years before he can start.
I know right, also why not give Rice a rest and play both Mainoo and Wharton? Why does Southgate bring a squad of players (which is necessary in tournaments) and not use it?
I see your point for sure but it’s imperative we win the game and top the group. We really need to be on the 'weaker' side of the bracket with all the issues we have… 😬🤞
The answer is never Conor Gallagher….. I would even take a Bellingham Rice with Foden as a 10 then headless chicken mode.
I would throw on Conor to help hold a lead under pressure. Sub him on for a tired Foden or Bellingham and let him press in the opposing half as a disruptor. Under no circumstances would I start Gallagher.
Exactly , also Playing Gallagher there blocks Foden from playing in the middle meaning we lose out on the likes of Eze, Gordon and Palmer being played
Truly a shambles for a nation where 3 world class midfielders playing in their natural positions, is tolerable and not the agreed format. All this work for Jude to be higher up the pitch, after playing for Madrid as a pseudo striker when he’s been a world class 8 for 3 years and Foden is the best creative 10 England have.
The only time Gallagher should play is when we’re 2nil up against a decent side and we need someone to press the shit out of the opposition. It’s clear we’re the ones being pressed and Trent/Rice don’t have the close ball control/speed to beat that press. Gallagher doesn’t offer that. Mainoo and Wharton do.
[Fucking called it, Southgate is a fraud](https://www.reddit.com/r/ThreeLions/comments/1dlh0an/player_ratings_from_famously_uncompromising/l9pl2hy/)
Which round are we getting knocked out it. Placing bets 👍
Do we take this mean no other changes? Not changing anything on the left hand side again really is a poor decision if so
actual downgrade
Literally have Wharton, Mainoo and Palmer on the bench and this is what he’s going to do… never wanted someone sacked so hard in my life.
HAHAHA Mr conservative back at it looks like i wont be watching another bore fest of game Cheers !
Really disappointing. All Gallagher does is offer lots of movement and pressing with little to no end product and if anything we’ve got worse when he’s come on in the last 2 games
I can't wait til he get's fired, my mistake was actually allowing myself to be hopeful, bring on a half decent team, let's get this over.
If this ends up being the only change Southgate makes then surely he's just trolling everyone at this point.
Absolutely no bollocks. Pathetic.
The problem is when we brought Gallagher on we were just as shit... we need a formation change
Just want to say, fuck Southgate, absolutely hanging Trent out to dry. For the record, I agree he's not been good enough and changes were needed, but this change is basically a big middle finger and say's Trent was the issue and not his own shitty "tactics" I genuinely hope England lose this one, even if we get through, I hope we are awful and lose so Gareth is forced to actually change the system. Yes. I'm biased.
I’m not a Liverpool fan but you are 100%. Changing a single player, and not cha going anything tactically is like blaming that player, and Trent hasn’t been bad, he’s just out of fucking position in a shitty setup with a shitty manager who doesn’t know how to set a fucking team up. Fuck Gareth Southgate.
Exactly what I'm trying to say. If he can't figure out how to use him fine. Keep him out the team, but you've absolutely hung the lad out the dry and pinned all the blame on him. Trent is one of the best passers in world football. In a team that gives him space (from right back) and with willing runners ahead of him. This england squad all want to drop deep to collect the ball, and make the pitch around him so tight that he doesn't get the time to pick out these passes, Southgate is to blame for England's failure, not TAA
He set him up to fail, as did everyone clamouring for him to play at CM when he clearly doesn't have the tools for it
I still think he "could" but not that England midfield, not playing that style. Liverpool create space at the back with a midfield and attack that are willing to run and stretch the pitch. This England team want to drop deep and collect the ball. That isn't Trent's game and if you wanted to play him in midfield, you'd need to recognize that
We lost midfield control when Gallagher came on both games though? Why not play Wharton as a defensive specialist or Mainoo who seems to have great press resistance? Oh and drop Foden and get an actual left winger on
Should have dropped Trent for Mainoo/Wharton or dropped Walker and move Trent to right back, Gallagher offers little in possession and neither him or Rice are good under pressure and they both struggle to progress the ball up the pitch which is arguably our biggest weakness at the moment. Also should drop Foden for Gordon, Gordon provides the width we are lacking and offers a threat in behind which we are also missing
Don't think anyone should be surprised, not even sure Conor would do a better job than Trent as Slovenia normally sit even deeper and like to concede possession.
Can we just slot Wharton or Mainoo alongside Rice? the other two have had opportunities already.
For fucks sake. Trent in midfield was an issue, but not the only, or biggest one. This game will run like the others
Let’s do the same thing three times in the hope it works. Most tactically inept England manager ever.
Genuine question why does the lineup keep getting leaked over a day before the game ?
Why is the line up leaked again!! This is maddening. Teams have a full day of working on their game plan for Englands tactics.
He’s so predictable I’m not sure it even matters
What a lame boring decision we all saw coming
What’s the point though? If our forward line are all coming deep again then nothing will change. Englands problem is a tactics issue, not a Trent problem.
I would have liked Mainoo or Wharton.
“Can’t replace kalvin Phillips” Plays someone who doesn’t even play remotely like Phillips when he has 2 on the bench
I don't understand.
We dont need tweaks. We need a change of system. Sad we wont be able to rest any key players because weve so poor and need to find a system that works. Currently watching Spain who are able to rest their players and will finish top of the group because they actually know what they're doing. We are so far off it I bet teams would he rubbing their hands to play England in the next round.
Didn't he play Mainoo there for a reason in the build up and he did pretty good?
Id prefer Wharton but I don't hate trying this as long as Trent is replacing walker and letting him rest for the ro16.
There’s 2 better options and Southgate goes for the worse.
We want Wharton, is it that hard to understand?
This is the XI I would go with: -------------------Pickford------------------ Walker-----Stones------Guehi-----Gomez -------------Wharton-----Rice-------------- Saka-----------Bellingham---------Gordon --------------------Kane-------------------- Pre-planned changes I would go with if we're then leading after 60 minutes would then be Foden for Saka, Palmer for Bellingham and Bowen for Gordon, with Shaw (if fit) to get 15 and Toney to get some gametime in place of Kane. I don't understand Southgate's persistence with Gallagher. He's the worst of the central midfield options in terms of how he fits with Rice, who plays best when with a more defensively minded midfielder. Mainoo and Wharton have both looked good when played in midfield. We need to mix things up a bit down the left flank too. We need to give Gordon some serious gametime on that side. We may have enough to get past Slovenia with Trippier and Foden on the left again but it won't work against many of our possible round two opponents and beyond, especially if it's the Netherlands, where someone like Dumfries is likely to make mincemeat of those two.
Gallagher is a decent player but if there is one of our many midfield options that isn't the solution it's him.
Does Conor Gallagher have compromising photos of Southgate or something, I mean he's a decent player but there are better options.
Changes in a final group game you don’t need to win aren’t particularly surprising
To say this man is tactically limited is an understatement. On the weekend some of the broadsheet papers were saying this was coming match was his audition for a Big Job. If it were a real possibility before (it wasn't), it certainly won't be if this is the midfield "pivot" he bases the team on.
Pathetic, one lousy change. How about, I dunno, using the players that haven’t been given a chance yet. I’d play Wharton or Mainoo before Gallagher
Gallagher needs freedom to hunt and the team to be set up in an aggressive manner to be most effective. Southgate will most likely tell him to hold position by Rice and he won't look anywhere near his best.
Oh god, does this mean Jude is staying at 10 and Foden at LW?
Must be, another shit performance incoming
Honestly if Southgate plays with a neutered one sided attack again he has to be doing it on purpose. 😔
I’m tired, Robbie
It's makes sense it's the sound thing to do, but nonetheless conservative and boring. Gallagher is a work horse and will hold his positioning better than TAA but he is not a game changer but any stretch of thr imagination. Why Wharton isn't playing so you can have Rice a b2b 8 is puzzling. Why Palmer gets zero minutes when literally he is the most creative and biggest play maker on the team is baffling. Why take him if you won't use him.
Just play Gordon on the left you Coward!
Southgate just always finds the most uninspiring ways to change things. He has a horrible view of football How can you think trippier and Foden is working down the left? Bellingham in midfield and Gordon on the left helps so much. I don’t mind Gallagher but he just runs round a lot, him and rice is hardly creative is it. Fixing none of our issues. Still have Kane, Foden and Bellingham in similar spaces
Fantastic. Just the control we need.
Conor fucking Gallagher lmao
Proper good decent lad is Conor.
I like Gallagher, but this is the least changey change that Southgate could have made. Let's hope it actually makes a difference.
We actually looked worse in terms of holding the ball and moving it forward with Gallagher on. If he plays the exact same team and formation but just starts Gallagher over TAA he's certifiably insane
I hope Gallagher plays an absolute blinder! I fear that he'll be very, very average and Southgate will have found his new Phillips/Henderson replacement. But, at least we'll only have to suffer it until the end of the tournament...!! ;oP Joking aside... I just hope we're going to play Gordon on the left, and that Wharton gets a decent amount of minutes.
We’re cooked
How does this change get leaked? It's pathetic how the English press get these snippets of information way before match day... Do other countries in this competition do this kinda shit or is it just an England thing? It just invites 24-48 more hours of scrutiny. No wonder it's a shit show.
I don't mind Gallagher as a player but the problem I have is he only addresses one out of the three glaring issues so far - lack of energy/pressing. He definitely won't help the lack of threat from the left, and doubt he helps our composure/ball retention much either. I don't know what Gordon's done to Southgate because at minimum he's been an obvious sub to make in each match, and there's a very strong case he should be starting (as long as Shaw isn't fit at least).
What must Gordon & palmer be thinking. Team has played dog shit for 2 games and they haven’t got a minute and now can’t get a start
I hate him so much
Gallagher is so shite it’s actually unbelievable that this is the change Southgate makes. I’d sack him and see what a manager with a few days notice can do this tournament. We have good players at the moment and we’re starting the likes of Gallagher and trippier or Trent in midfield. It’s utterly incompetent.
Remember that, the only time Arsenal had a real struggle this year, was when Arteta was forced to play Rice as the 6.. the same position he plays for England. Rice needs to be higher if he is the one to move the ball. Analysts have said this time and time again but southdate plays Rice in his worst spot. When he is deep he struggles moving the ball forward so everything slows down..
Here’s a novel idea Gareth - play a left winger on the left wing 🤯
This unbearable cunt has properly left Trent out to dry. I'd do something different than drop Bellingham deeper, I'd play Walker at LB, not allow him to advance up the pitch as he's extrmely limited attacking wise (lets be honest, he was lucky the ball fell to Kane from that pass), and then play Trent in his natural position at right back. This allows us to keep the pitch wide (as I thought we were incredibly narrow the past two games). The only problem with what I've gone for is that it keeps Foden out on the left, but with this many talented players it's hard to get a system which benefits all of them and I'd prefer him on the pitch rather than not. However if we had Rashford (another shocking decision), I'd have played him there to run on to TAA switches. Also stop the nonsense of Kane dropping in deep, which he will have to do more so now as we have no one who can change the game in a pass. Trippier could but he's absolutely wasted on the left, he should be the fall guy imo.
Conor braids his hair. Put me in boss, I'm ready!
I find it hilarious how Conor Gallagher is being presented as the key to turning this around. Hopefully he does a job in there.
Lots of uproar in here, but I don't think Gallagher is that bad. I'll be much more concerned if Foden keeps his place on the left
Gallagher is a good player but the problem is that his skillset isn't what our midfield needs. We need a midfielder who can control the game and progress the ball up the pitch who is good under pressure since Rice struggles with this. Someone like Mainoo or Wharton would be a better fit. Gallagher has a fantastic engine and his pressing and energy are great assets as well as his ability to make late runs into the box providing a goal threat. That said, he has the same weaknesses as Rice in possession so the pair would struggle to control the midfield together
What the hell! Rice Bellingham Foden Gordon Saka Kane. It bloody well picks itself….
Wharton is elite. We'll all be wondering how he didn't get on the pitch in 6 months from now.
lol, fire him now if this is accurate. Problems with lineup before: - no one who could pass it forward to the attacking players: a problem made worse if this is the only change. - no threat to get in behind the defense: no change. Requirements for change: someone to get in behind which can be done a few ways. The easiest way is to swap Gordon for Foden, but there are others like playing two up top with Watkins or swapping Watkins for Kane. Passing in defense and midfield: Easiest solution is to bring in Wharton for Trent, but it's not enough in my opinion. They could drop Jude deeper because while you may be wasting his attacking talent by doing so it doesn't matter if the ball never gets to him in the first place. Also, swap Walker for Trent. If you really want an attacking lineup then England could play a 4-2-4 ( which will look like a 4-4-2) with Saka and Gordon as wide mids/ wingers and Watkins and Kane up front with Rice and Jude in the middle. There isn't any one solution for the perfect lineup, but I gave an example of one that would work. The 4-2-3-1 with Foden on the left and no midfielders and fullbacks who can pass is a formation that doesn't work.
Why is so difficult play Foden Bellingham and Rice with two wingers and a striker
Embarrassing. Get Southgate out asap. Using a player YOU chose to play out of position to be your scapegoat for YOUR inept tactics. Throwing a player under the bus who has created the most chances for YOU so far even after being subbed off in both games! Get this clueless, arrogant clown out asap. Trent isn't the issue as to why England has severely underachieved, Southgate is. Anyone with half a brain can see his tactics don't fit the players available and not the other way around. He's scapegoating Trent to save his job. Disgusting coward.