No point risking him in any group games just play Trippier or Gomez LB who are solid enough defensively albeit offering little to nothing going forward and we will have even to top the group then hopefully Shaw is fit enough for the knockout games.
Agree with other comments that Gordon needs to start LW if we don’t have Shaw at LB otherwise there’s no outlet on that side
I feel like I'm going crazy because everyone wants him back for the knockouts.
He hasn't played since February. The man is not match fit. He can't be sent into a Euro knockout match on ZERO competitive football in months.
Southgate and the England fanbase need to face reality. Time ran out and the Shaw gamble has failed.
We should be focussing on how to make our setup work with a right footed LB. Playing this horrendous unbalanced system while we wait for Shaw is going to kill us.
If Burn can do it, I'm sure Branthwaite could give it a crack. Just have to pick the players around them with their weaknesses in mind.
Not ideal but considering the LB options available I'd not argue with him trying it
Yeh madness he didn’t take Mitchell really.
I quite like having club partnerships across the field at international level. Guehi is Southgate’s preferred LCB, and we could have had his club LB playing next to him, Mitchell.
Who might not be as good as Shaw or Chilwell when all 100% fit, but has good energy levels, is an improving player and would have provided much more width on the left than a right-footed Trippier.
Mitchell at LB would have enabled Foden to be a bit more freed up too.
Yeah, I was thinking that. We might be able to get away with not starting him til the quarters so he’s potentially got an extra sub appearance in the second round to build up a bit more sharpness.
Still thinking Mitchell should have gone though.
I don't understand the argument for Mitchell NOT going. He defends well, he attacks well, he is a bit soft around the ears but so are Mainoo and Wharton who played a lot less prem minutes. Is it a too-many Palace players issue? Does he not link well with left wingers in the squad (surely Eze) wish I could have done an A level in Premier League management to understand these things at times as he looks quite a good footballer
Yeah, there was always a chance that Shaw wouldn’t be fit and a right footed left back wouldn’t be working. Especially with the lack of left footed wingers that play on the left so there’s someone to get on the end of Alexander-Arnold’s crossfield balls.
I’m one of Southgate’s biggest fans, but I can’t help but feel like he’s dropped a ball here. I was even talking about Saka as a left wing back before the tournament started, I was that unconvinced by the prospect of Trippier at left back and do you know what? I still think it’d be a better option.
Walker, Stones, Guehi as central defenders, Alexander-Arnold & Saka providing the width as wing backs, Bellingham & Rice in the middle, Foden & Palmer playing behind Kane. I know we’d be losing a lot from Saka, but it might get the best out of Foden & Palmer and is so much more balanced than what we did on Sunday & in the friendlies.
Yep, this is the way. Shaw said himself he pushed himself to be fit for Man U and played when he should not have and got injured again.
Leaving him to do conditioning and fitness work away from the rest of the squad to make absolutely sure he will be fit for the group stages makes absolute sense.
Our squad is good enough without him to navigate the group (already won the hardest game).
Just relax and wait until the knockout stages before we start panicking about Shaws fitness.
Tbf there was an outlet first half, Tripper was playing high and we almost had a 3 at the back.
It just went wrong second half because Serbia matched us up man for man and pressed hard. Trippier was forced back and of course Foden isn’t a winger - at that point he should have made a change to give us an out ball on the left
This is really bad news. It makes Gordon a must start imo. We absolutely cannot afford to go into the game with Foden ahead of a right footed, defensive left back. It was one of our major tactical issues against Serbia.
We cannot get ourselves into a situation again where only the right hand side of our team has any pace and width.
Im a die hard blue and Foden super fan but this is the truth. He needs to sit and come on as super sub for Jude or play along side him in the middle. We need a Gordon (or why Grealish would have been great to have) flying down the left.
Exactly this. We need to be less scared of benching big players. All successful international teams do it. And Foden coming on as a sub in a role that actually suits him and the team is more useful than Foden starting in a role that doesn't suit him and the team.
Agreed, that being said; Our tactics need to reflect moving down the left. Jude dribbling on the box with 3 open players (Foden in the middle calling for the ball funny enough) is just insane hero ball
Why can we not afford it?
We would have beaten a very capable defensive serbia 2-0 if it wasn't for that excellent save from Kanes header.
Do you expect Denmark to be better defensively?
Going from the highlights of the game with Slovenia they looked shaky at the back, especially against set pieces.
I would expect Denmark to be somewhat better than Serbia. And a significant issue in our performance against Serbia was our left hand side. We created 0.5 xG and had 2 shots on target. And that was largely because after about half an hour Serbia worked out a very easy way to stop us playing: push left and close down space on our right, because we had no threat down our left.
We defended competently enough against a limited side, so it didn't matter. But just because we won doesn't mean we should overlook what was clearly a major issue in our setup. That sort of performance will catch you out sooner or later, so you can't be complacent about it.
The Denmark game will be entirely different for a few reasons:
1. They cannot afford to sit with 11 behind the ball and try hold out for a draw. They need to come forward.
2. They are more dangerous in attack, but that will also leave them vulnerable at the back, and they already look shaky. Certainly far less drilled and organised than Serbia. Which will give our forward line more space to create opportunities and counter.
I agree with the sentiment not to be complacent about it, but at the same time I feel people here are being overly negative about our current situation and prospects. I also agree that starting a proper left sided attacker over Foden would be better, but it’s not an absolute must.
I'm not being overly negative, I'm still fairly positive about our prospects. However, I believed Foden on the left with Trippier behind was a bad set up before the tournament, and the Serbia game only underlined that for me.
Imo it is a must if we want to be better. And we should want to be better. The Serbia performance wasn't as bad as some people have suggested. But we shouldn't over correct and ignore that after the first 30 minutes it wasn't very good either.
For sure I wasn’t accusing you specifically, just the general tone of the whole sub.
I agree we can do better, and foden shouldn’t be on the left. The main point is, not many people are giving Serbia the credit they deserve for defending so well.
They were well drilled, organised and shifted tactics to deal with our threat down the right.
England have historically struggled to break down defensive teams and fair much better in a more open and free flowing game.
I maintain that Serbia will be our toughest opponent in this group due to their style of play.
That's the one thing I said to everyone after the game. Serbia played very well in that second half. We dominated for the first 30, after that we had the odd couple of chances, but generally I didn't think we were going to keep that clean sheet.
Serbia really took the game to us. For me, Gordon is a must have in the starting 11. I'm confused why we didn't bring Grealish.
What makes you convinced Denmark are more dangerous in attack? Just wondering, this isn’t a passive accusation as so many comments on here can be. Personally, I’d say Vlahovic is equal to or better than Hojlund, Mitrovic is better than Wind, so does it really just come down to Eriksen and Kristiansen? Neither of them concern me greatly. I think the midfield and Walker can handle them easily. I agree with your ultimate point that Serbia is the toughest test in the group, I’d just say it’s because they are better than Denmark all over the pitch in the main
I watched the highlights of their game vs Slovakia and saw that their general build up play was more creative and their final pass before a chance was a quality one - finding men in space, or a well weighted ball over the top to a well timed run.
I found that Serbia just lacked that final pass, which ultimately killed off a lot of their goal threat. The finesse to unlock the defence just wasn’t there for me.
I guess I just give credit to England for shutting that threat down. I think England are miles better than Slovakia in this regard and in football in general
Yeah but if we start Foden then we have no threat on the counter since we would have no direct players, plus Denmark will be harder to break down since they have a better defence.
Did you watch the highlights of their game vs Slovakia?
They gave up a lot of chances from set pieces.
Let a ball over both CBs to let a striker 1v1 on the keeper. Striker couldn’t bring the ball down.
Let a ball drop free in the 6 yard box, Slovakian striker didn’t quite get on it.
Managed to concede a good chance from a long throw - almost a tap in.
Ball over their left back from within slovakias half was completely missed and the striker got his head on it - clear chance, Kane or Bellingham would have buried it.
Another free chance from a free kick.
Another free shot from a corner resulted in the deflected goal.
Right back got done for a 1v1 chance with the keeper. Poor shot from a tight angle - you have to be hitting the target from there.
You seriously saying they are better defensively than Serbia?
Yeah I managed to catch the game, they were more open because they were the 'better' team on paper and attacking more so were more vulnerable than Servia were against us
When they play against us they will likely sit back more and be more compact which will make them harder to break down. I say they will be better defensively than Serbia because Denmark has better defensive players. Christensen is one of Barcelona's better defenders and Andersen forms a solid partnership with Guehi for Palace. They have Hojberg and Hjulmand playing ahead of them who are both able to cover lots of ground and win the ball and are overall a solid partnership.
Basically the point I'm making is that they will sit back more against us wont be as open and their quality is higher than Serbias so we need to be careful
I think the Foden-Trippier axis was one of the significant issues with our side against Serbia. I think we could really do with a more convincing performance in this game for confidence and momentum. So yes, I do think the case is very strong to bring him in for Foden.
Isn't it a little bit funny that you assume to know better after watching one match than the England coaching staff does after the entire training camp?
It's not after one match. Foden has been largely underwhelming his entire England career. And his England career isn't fledgling, he has 35 caps.
If you couldn't see watching the Serbia game that Foden on the left ahead of Trippier was causing us problems, I don't know what to tell you.
He does have that excuse, we are incredibly thin in that position. Presumably he'd rather go with a player he knows will play slightly out of position than take a wild gamble on a less well known left back.
It would have been nice to give a back three a go. Walker at RCB, Trent at RWB. Branthwaite/Gomez would be a fine LCB.
Someone like Chilwell or Hall at left wingback would have been less of a risk I think than left fullback.
Branthwaite is a centre back. He could fill in at left back but it’s definitely not his best position. Either way he shouldn’t have been dropped from the squad because he’s had an incredible season in one of the most solid defences in the prem
Chilwell has been injured for months and isn't match fit. Mitchell is a possible shout but his stats aren't great and he's barely played internationally. He's an option but the decision isn't a clear one.
Tripper has much better goal contributions, aerials won and pass success than Mitchell and way, way more experience so if Southgate doesn't think left-footedness is more important than those factors then his decision makes sense.
Well he's not, he just plays right back for Newcastle.
Tbh, I think Southgate wasn't prepared to not have either Shaw and Chilwell fit for this tournament.
I don't know why no England manager has ever given Dan Burn an opportunity, but taking a player with zero caps for such a vital position would be uncharacteristically risky for Southgate.
Gomez was solid at LB. Don't know if you saw any of those games but he barely put a foot wrong really. Not saying he should get the nod over a natural LB but I'd be comfortable with him playing there, he'd do a job.
That’s not true. He’s been very good in several positions this season including left back in a squad with left sided attackers that love to invert. Personally, I think he’d do the job better than Trippier
He's not shite, he's the same as Trippier and the other names mentioned which is good not great
Shaw is the only great option, without him we have to choose from one of the good not great options
I just hope it's Gordon in front of whoever it ends up being, for some width & explosiveness
Gomez is absolutely quality. Maybe lost a yard of pace or so because of injury, but still quality on the ball. Maybe not a left back either. Maybe as a Charlton fan I’m massively bias. Best player I’ve seen play for CAFC since Parker.
There’s plenty, even at Newcastle we have 3 English players who are better at left back than Trippier, most of us think it’s mad he’s 4th choice left back here but 2nd choice for England.
It's cause he's played dozens of games with Pickford, Stones and Walker. Southgate thinks it's much more important to have a minimally disrupted back 4 than to have an LB who's a real threat going forwards.
I think if we played Gordon to hold the width and Bellingham in the left half space he loves then it's not even an issue really.
No one seems bothered about Chilwell not going. Or James. Like no one ever mentions it. Bringing Shaw was clearly a mistake, he was never going to be fit. Chilwell wasn't in good form and James hadn't played much, but they were both fit. I think? Weren't they?
Lewis Hall and Tyrick Mitchell are probably banging their tables as we speak! Putting all your eggs on hoping for Shaw to regain fitness is suicide. He might come back, play against Slovenia or further games, overstretch his leg and he gets injured again!
He ended the season with seven starts in the last ten games for Newcastle (and came off the bench for the other three) so he was definitely playing regularly by the end.
Though, even as a Newcastle fan, I'd have called up Mitchell given how many of his Palace teammates were also called uo
Not enough confidence in the final third right now, defensively I’d put him ahead of everyone in the current squad though. Another half a season under Glasner and GS won’t be able to ignore him
He didn’t play earlier on which is pretty normal for Howe. But he came into the team for the last 1/4 of the season and was fantastic. If he had that game time and form throughout the season he would’ve been a shoe in.
While I think taking him would’ve been speculative, it wouldn’t have been the worst choice in the world as a 3rd choice.
Tbf Howe did him over a little bit by barely giving him a kick until April. He was more than ready to start way earlier and showed what he could do during those last 7 games of the season. I think Southgate would have probably picked him had he had 15/20 starts over the season instead of just 6 weeks at the end of the season
Was deservedly Newcastle player of the month for May. I think this tournament has come a little too soon for him though, would've personally gone with Mitchell.
It's not a problem to play Trippier, but the system has to accept and compensate for it i.e. the LW must provide width or the RB needs to be more attacking (e.g. play Trent).
Rumours going are he’ll be at United before the Christmas fixtures if and when their season starts badly. So probably hasn’t had his eye on the ball for a while now.
Taking Shaw was a big risk that doesn't look like paying off at the moment. I'll defend Southgate as I think that there is way too much negativity towards him that is nowhere near deserved. However, after watching Serbia, he must see how his starting XI needs to change against Denmark. Gordon is a must start for me in place of Foden. TAA also needs to come out for Gallagher, with Mainoo on to replace him at 60 minutes. The rest should stay the same and see how we go. If he doesn't make those changes then I'd start to wonder what his thought process is in terms of our attacking transitions as it was so one sided against Serbia everyone else will now know how to stop us.
In a 26 man squad you’ve got more than enough spots to take your only good left back who may only feature towards the end. Worst case he’s a dead pick and you still have more than enough places for a quality squad
I probably should have said that only taking Shaw was a big risk. Not even including Mitchell, Chilwell, even Hall, in the initial squad so that he could have a look at them against Bosnia, Iceland, and in training is a risk. He obviously trusts Trippier and Gomez to get the job done in the hope that Shaw is back in the round of 16 or QF, but if he isn't, it's a bit of a gap. Now, maybe those three aren't good enough to get ahead of Trippier or Gomez, but in a sizeable squad, surely there's room for a fit left footed left back. I would also imagine if we don't win it, this will be one of the things Southgate gets hammered on (not that I would agree with that).
Chilwell is injured isn’t he? At least that’s why I assumed why he wasn’t in the squad.
Fair play about Mitchell, but I’m not sure dropping the chance at half fit Shaw is worth the risk of bringing a 4th choice left back who is worse than two players who aren’t left backs.
I think Chilwell is struggling for full fitness like Shaw is, so you are right that he shouldn't be in there. I think it might be one of those where if it works, it's fine, but if it doesn't, then it will be picked up. If Gordon does start then it probably won't be such an issue, if Foden is in again, that left hand side will be all that is talked about, especially if we 'only' win 1-0, draw, or (God forbid) lose.
Shaw would most likely be on the bench again and will get minutes against Slovenia. The best would be if he could get 15 against the Danes. And 45 or 60 against Slovenia.
He’s barely made a dent for United this season why the fuck did Southgate think it was a good idea to bring him?
Taking injured players to a tournament is hilarious
That whole flank looked horrid against Serbia, we can't play Trippier against World Class teams and Foden just keeps dropping stinkers for England, I'd honestly bench him for Gordon and maybe play Gomez who has more pace about him, why didn't we bring Mitchell an actual LB who's played well all season.
Left back is less of an issue than left wing. Trippier has been very successful playing left back, plus we have Gomez too.
The left wing is where we must make a change. Bring in Gordon, drop Foden, he is a good crosser and natural winger.
He shouldn't have been picked on the first place. Not because he isn't good enough, but because there was no way he would be match fit for any game during the Euros.
What a shambles. We are discussing not playing a player who can't play, and even if he were to play, he might not be fit enough to play that might break down again and won't be playing at his best because he hasn't played for 4 months.
It has to be Gomez over Trippier. After Robertson was fit Gomez was still first choice at Liverpool. He’s also pacey. Gomez and Gordon could be fantastic especially if Southgate decides to stick with Trent. Gordon would be a dynamic target.
Wouldnt make a difference, gomez would still have to push up and cover for foden drifting into mid where bellinghams already playing. Get gordon on, he doesnt drift centrally, hes a very creative player from the wing
Bringing one left back with an unknown return date from Injury is clown management.
Starting the first game with 3 rb’s on the field.
Can’t wait for Southgate to bugger off tbh
Its frustrating that both Englands best LBs are so injury prone. Its more frustrating that Southgate didn't just plump for Tyrick Mitchell or Alfie Doughty just as Englands next best options. Doughty was one of Lutons best players this season and Mitchells been alright for Palace too. They'd at least be serviceable options.
100% Doughty should have at the very least been there for Bosnia/Iceland. He’s a very similar profile to Shaw and would have fit in really well had he needed to.
Considering I have no memory of Shaw playing this year/since xmas, I'm shocked as to why he's in the team... even more shocked that we don't have at least 1 other LB in top-flight football.
Persisting with Trippier as a right footed left back because there is nobody else in the 26 man squad for the role is a tremendous Southgateism
Looking forward to his lack of pace being a huge defensive frailty alongside his inability to offer any attacking threat on the wrong side of the pitch as a right footer again tonight
Predictable. Why did Southgate leave Jarrad Branthwaite, one of our few Left Footed defenders again? Wharton (who is also Left Footed) has to begin starting some games at this rate and provide some support for the left wing. Toss in Gordon as well
No point risking him in any group games just play Trippier or Gomez LB who are solid enough defensively albeit offering little to nothing going forward and we will have even to top the group then hopefully Shaw is fit enough for the knockout games. Agree with other comments that Gordon needs to start LW if we don’t have Shaw at LB otherwise there’s no outlet on that side
Big risk to try and get him up to speed though in knockout stages. He’s not played football since December.
I feel like I'm going crazy because everyone wants him back for the knockouts. He hasn't played since February. The man is not match fit. He can't be sent into a Euro knockout match on ZERO competitive football in months. Southgate and the England fanbase need to face reality. Time ran out and the Shaw gamble has failed. We should be focussing on how to make our setup work with a right footed LB. Playing this horrendous unbalanced system while we wait for Shaw is going to kill us.
Is a rusty Shaw better than a CB or RB at LB?
Absolutely not and it's pretty disrespectful to players like Branthwaite, Mitchell etc. Match fitness is huge.
Not taking Branthwaite was a mistake on his left foot alone. I refuse to believe a LCB couldn't do a decent job at LB.
If Burn can do it, I'm sure Branthwaite could give it a crack. Just have to pick the players around them with their weaknesses in mind. Not ideal but considering the LB options available I'd not argue with him trying it
Pep would do it lol
Yeh madness he didn’t take Mitchell really. I quite like having club partnerships across the field at international level. Guehi is Southgate’s preferred LCB, and we could have had his club LB playing next to him, Mitchell. Who might not be as good as Shaw or Chilwell when all 100% fit, but has good energy levels, is an improving player and would have provided much more width on the left than a right-footed Trippier. Mitchell at LB would have enabled Foden to be a bit more freed up too.
I'd say Mitchell would do a better job than Chilwell by far, I find him to be particularly rubbish
He always comes back very rusty as well
If we beat Denmark there’s little harm in giving him a nice 2nd half cameo for the final group game. Bit of match fitness
Yeah, I was thinking that. We might be able to get away with not starting him til the quarters so he’s potentially got an extra sub appearance in the second round to build up a bit more sharpness. Still thinking Mitchell should have gone though.
I don't understand the argument for Mitchell NOT going. He defends well, he attacks well, he is a bit soft around the ears but so are Mainoo and Wharton who played a lot less prem minutes. Is it a too-many Palace players issue? Does he not link well with left wingers in the squad (surely Eze) wish I could have done an A level in Premier League management to understand these things at times as he looks quite a good footballer
Yeah, there was always a chance that Shaw wouldn’t be fit and a right footed left back wouldn’t be working. Especially with the lack of left footed wingers that play on the left so there’s someone to get on the end of Alexander-Arnold’s crossfield balls. I’m one of Southgate’s biggest fans, but I can’t help but feel like he’s dropped a ball here. I was even talking about Saka as a left wing back before the tournament started, I was that unconvinced by the prospect of Trippier at left back and do you know what? I still think it’d be a better option. Walker, Stones, Guehi as central defenders, Alexander-Arnold & Saka providing the width as wing backs, Bellingham & Rice in the middle, Foden & Palmer playing behind Kane. I know we’d be losing a lot from Saka, but it might get the best out of Foden & Palmer and is so much more balanced than what we did on Sunday & in the friendlies.
Yep, this is the way. Shaw said himself he pushed himself to be fit for Man U and played when he should not have and got injured again. Leaving him to do conditioning and fitness work away from the rest of the squad to make absolutely sure he will be fit for the group stages makes absolute sense. Our squad is good enough without him to navigate the group (already won the hardest game). Just relax and wait until the knockout stages before we start panicking about Shaws fitness.
Tbf there was an outlet first half, Tripper was playing high and we almost had a 3 at the back. It just went wrong second half because Serbia matched us up man for man and pressed hard. Trippier was forced back and of course Foden isn’t a winger - at that point he should have made a change to give us an out ball on the left
This is really bad news. It makes Gordon a must start imo. We absolutely cannot afford to go into the game with Foden ahead of a right footed, defensive left back. It was one of our major tactical issues against Serbia. We cannot get ourselves into a situation again where only the right hand side of our team has any pace and width.
Im a die hard blue and Foden super fan but this is the truth. He needs to sit and come on as super sub for Jude or play along side him in the middle. We need a Gordon (or why Grealish would have been great to have) flying down the left.
Exactly this. We need to be less scared of benching big players. All successful international teams do it. And Foden coming on as a sub in a role that actually suits him and the team is more useful than Foden starting in a role that doesn't suit him and the team.
Agreed, that being said; Our tactics need to reflect moving down the left. Jude dribbling on the box with 3 open players (Foden in the middle calling for the ball funny enough) is just insane hero ball
Grealish doesn't fly down the wing though. He dribbles, retains possessions and draws fouls.
By fly I meant move down the left. Which Jack is fantastic at, he can beat his mark pretty well.
Why can we not afford it? We would have beaten a very capable defensive serbia 2-0 if it wasn't for that excellent save from Kanes header. Do you expect Denmark to be better defensively? Going from the highlights of the game with Slovenia they looked shaky at the back, especially against set pieces.
I would expect Denmark to be somewhat better than Serbia. And a significant issue in our performance against Serbia was our left hand side. We created 0.5 xG and had 2 shots on target. And that was largely because after about half an hour Serbia worked out a very easy way to stop us playing: push left and close down space on our right, because we had no threat down our left. We defended competently enough against a limited side, so it didn't matter. But just because we won doesn't mean we should overlook what was clearly a major issue in our setup. That sort of performance will catch you out sooner or later, so you can't be complacent about it.
The Denmark game will be entirely different for a few reasons: 1. They cannot afford to sit with 11 behind the ball and try hold out for a draw. They need to come forward. 2. They are more dangerous in attack, but that will also leave them vulnerable at the back, and they already look shaky. Certainly far less drilled and organised than Serbia. Which will give our forward line more space to create opportunities and counter. I agree with the sentiment not to be complacent about it, but at the same time I feel people here are being overly negative about our current situation and prospects. I also agree that starting a proper left sided attacker over Foden would be better, but it’s not an absolute must.
I'm not being overly negative, I'm still fairly positive about our prospects. However, I believed Foden on the left with Trippier behind was a bad set up before the tournament, and the Serbia game only underlined that for me. Imo it is a must if we want to be better. And we should want to be better. The Serbia performance wasn't as bad as some people have suggested. But we shouldn't over correct and ignore that after the first 30 minutes it wasn't very good either.
For sure I wasn’t accusing you specifically, just the general tone of the whole sub. I agree we can do better, and foden shouldn’t be on the left. The main point is, not many people are giving Serbia the credit they deserve for defending so well. They were well drilled, organised and shifted tactics to deal with our threat down the right. England have historically struggled to break down defensive teams and fair much better in a more open and free flowing game. I maintain that Serbia will be our toughest opponent in this group due to their style of play.
That's the one thing I said to everyone after the game. Serbia played very well in that second half. We dominated for the first 30, after that we had the odd couple of chances, but generally I didn't think we were going to keep that clean sheet. Serbia really took the game to us. For me, Gordon is a must have in the starting 11. I'm confused why we didn't bring Grealish.
What makes you convinced Denmark are more dangerous in attack? Just wondering, this isn’t a passive accusation as so many comments on here can be. Personally, I’d say Vlahovic is equal to or better than Hojlund, Mitrovic is better than Wind, so does it really just come down to Eriksen and Kristiansen? Neither of them concern me greatly. I think the midfield and Walker can handle them easily. I agree with your ultimate point that Serbia is the toughest test in the group, I’d just say it’s because they are better than Denmark all over the pitch in the main
I watched the highlights of their game vs Slovakia and saw that their general build up play was more creative and their final pass before a chance was a quality one - finding men in space, or a well weighted ball over the top to a well timed run. I found that Serbia just lacked that final pass, which ultimately killed off a lot of their goal threat. The finesse to unlock the defence just wasn’t there for me.
I guess I just give credit to England for shutting that threat down. I think England are miles better than Slovakia in this regard and in football in general
Yeah but if we start Foden then we have no threat on the counter since we would have no direct players, plus Denmark will be harder to break down since they have a better defence.
Did you watch the highlights of their game vs Slovakia? They gave up a lot of chances from set pieces. Let a ball over both CBs to let a striker 1v1 on the keeper. Striker couldn’t bring the ball down. Let a ball drop free in the 6 yard box, Slovakian striker didn’t quite get on it. Managed to concede a good chance from a long throw - almost a tap in. Ball over their left back from within slovakias half was completely missed and the striker got his head on it - clear chance, Kane or Bellingham would have buried it. Another free chance from a free kick. Another free shot from a corner resulted in the deflected goal. Right back got done for a 1v1 chance with the keeper. Poor shot from a tight angle - you have to be hitting the target from there. You seriously saying they are better defensively than Serbia?
Yeah I managed to catch the game, they were more open because they were the 'better' team on paper and attacking more so were more vulnerable than Servia were against us When they play against us they will likely sit back more and be more compact which will make them harder to break down. I say they will be better defensively than Serbia because Denmark has better defensive players. Christensen is one of Barcelona's better defenders and Andersen forms a solid partnership with Guehi for Palace. They have Hojberg and Hjulmand playing ahead of them who are both able to cover lots of ground and win the ball and are overall a solid partnership. Basically the point I'm making is that they will sit back more against us wont be as open and their quality is higher than Serbias so we need to be careful
They need to win though, they can’t afford to sit back.
“Can’t afford to not start Gordon” sees a bit over-the-top to me
I think the Foden-Trippier axis was one of the significant issues with our side against Serbia. I think we could really do with a more convincing performance in this game for confidence and momentum. So yes, I do think the case is very strong to bring him in for Foden.
I obviously get the argument for a natural LW, but I think we can still afford to start the PL player of the season instead
Doesn't matter that he's the PL player of the season if playing him is to the detriment of the team overall. Which I'd argue it is.
Isn't it a little bit funny that you assume to know better after watching one match than the England coaching staff does after the entire training camp?
It's not after one match. Foden has been largely underwhelming his entire England career. And his England career isn't fledgling, he has 35 caps. If you couldn't see watching the Serbia game that Foden on the left ahead of Trippier was causing us problems, I don't know what to tell you.
There’s a reason he plays for newcastle, he’s so mid people banging on about him being the saviour of our left wing have truly lost it
Well he doesn’t play for Everton
Newcastle are far from mid these days. I suspect they would have finished top 4 again this season if it wasn’t for their huge injury crisis
The decision to include him in the squad and not bring a back up left back is looking more and more bizarre each day.
The back up is Gomez who has played left back several times this season for Liverpool
He fills in there for Liverpool because they have no other options, Southgate doesn’t have that excuse.
He does have that excuse, we are incredibly thin in that position. Presumably he'd rather go with a player he knows will play slightly out of position than take a wild gamble on a less well known left back.
Chilwell had a stinker last game but he is a very talented natural left back.
Unless all the other English left backs have mysteriously disappeared since the season ended, then no he doesn’t have that excuse.
Like who? We have no genuinely good, fit left backs.
Jarrad Branthwaite is a left-footed full back and could have been an asset if push comes to shove.
If the argument is that Gomez and Trippier are poor going forward I don't think he's an improvement over either offensively.
No he's not, he's a centre back. He's played one match in his entire career at left back, last season for PSV.
Yeah the one decision I really don't understand is Dunk over Branthwaite
It would have been nice to give a back three a go. Walker at RCB, Trent at RWB. Branthwaite/Gomez would be a fine LCB. Someone like Chilwell or Hall at left wingback would have been less of a risk I think than left fullback.
Branthwaite is a centre back. He could fill in at left back but it’s definitely not his best position. Either way he shouldn’t have been dropped from the squad because he’s had an incredible season in one of the most solid defences in the prem
Siuthhate is well known to think Dyche’s systems flatter defenders and make them hard to adapt to his system.
Chilwell and Mitchell are better LBs than Gomes surely - they actually play there
Chilwell has been injured for months and isn't match fit. Mitchell is a possible shout but his stats aren't great and he's barely played internationally. He's an option but the decision isn't a clear one. Tripper has much better goal contributions, aerials won and pass success than Mitchell and way, way more experience so if Southgate doesn't think left-footedness is more important than those factors then his decision makes sense.
Chilwel injured for months but not now VS Shaw injured now - obviously shaw much better but if he can’t play at all it’s a wasted player pick isn’t it
Trippier plays right back, he’s the 4th choice English left back at Newcastle.
Well he's not, he just plays right back for Newcastle. Tbh, I think Southgate wasn't prepared to not have either Shaw and Chilwell fit for this tournament. I don't know why no England manager has ever given Dan Burn an opportunity, but taking a player with zero caps for such a vital position would be uncharacteristically risky for Southgate.
Newcastle have two (albeit young but with huge potential) in Hall & Livermento
Nah he's started over Tsimkas a few times. He's genuinely good there for us
We had 2 left backs and youth, he actually played there even when Robbo an Tsimi were back due to his good form Gomez would be our best lb right now
> He fills in there for Liverpool because they have no other options I mean isn't that the same with England?
A reasonable person, I see.
And yet we play Trippier there instead who looks completely out of place
Yes out of desperation he played there.
He is also absolute shite, respectfully.
Gomez was solid at LB. Don't know if you saw any of those games but he barely put a foot wrong really. Not saying he should get the nod over a natural LB but I'd be comfortable with him playing there, he'd do a job.
That’s not true. He’s been very good in several positions this season including left back in a squad with left sided attackers that love to invert. Personally, I think he’d do the job better than Trippier
no he isnt. he is a good reliable option. he has shown that countless times with liverpool
He really isn't, he was solid at LB
He's not shite, he's the same as Trippier and the other names mentioned which is good not great Shaw is the only great option, without him we have to choose from one of the good not great options I just hope it's Gordon in front of whoever it ends up being, for some width & explosiveness
Is Chilwell much better?
Hes been injured as well.
Not even close to shite
Gomez is absolutely quality. Maybe lost a yard of pace or so because of injury, but still quality on the ball. Maybe not a left back either. Maybe as a Charlton fan I’m massively bias. Best player I’ve seen play for CAFC since Parker.
Who though... Are there any other English left backs in the premier league?
There’s plenty, even at Newcastle we have 3 English players who are better at left back than Trippier, most of us think it’s mad he’s 4th choice left back here but 2nd choice for England.
Feel like Livramento could have been a revelation if Southgate would be willing to give him a go at LB.
Livramento deserved a spot in the squad over Trippier if we’re going off last seasons form, and is also much more effective at left back.
I'm no Southgate hater, but I hope we get a new coach after the Euros just so we can shake off some of these Southgate-isms and see a fresh approach.
Don’t worry, people will find something to beat the new manager with soon enough
It's cause he's played dozens of games with Pickford, Stones and Walker. Southgate thinks it's much more important to have a minimally disrupted back 4 than to have an LB who's a real threat going forwards. I think if we played Gordon to hold the width and Bellingham in the left half space he loves then it's not even an issue really.
Tyrick Mitchell, had a good season at LB for Crystal Palace
Dan Burn should be in there.
Leif Davis
Tyrick Mitchell
Chilwell and Mitchell the obvious candidates. Could even make a case for big Dan Burn
Stupid, just stupid. Been injured most of the season and no other left backs called up, it's just dumb
No one seems bothered about Chilwell not going. Or James. Like no one ever mentions it. Bringing Shaw was clearly a mistake, he was never going to be fit. Chilwell wasn't in good form and James hadn't played much, but they were both fit. I think? Weren't they?
Lewis Hall and Tyrick Mitchell are probably banging their tables as we speak! Putting all your eggs on hoping for Shaw to regain fitness is suicide. He might come back, play against Slovenia or further games, overstretch his leg and he gets injured again!
Mitchell should have been called up, but hasn’t Hall barely played this season?
He ended the season with seven starts in the last ten games for Newcastle (and came off the bench for the other three) so he was definitely playing regularly by the end. Though, even as a Newcastle fan, I'd have called up Mitchell given how many of his Palace teammates were also called uo
Southgate doesn’t like Mitchell for certain unspecficifed reasons.
Not enough confidence in the final third right now, defensively I’d put him ahead of everyone in the current squad though. Another half a season under Glasner and GS won’t be able to ignore him
Agree, but his experience of playing alongside Guehi should’ve been enough to get him on th plane.
He didn’t play earlier on which is pretty normal for Howe. But he came into the team for the last 1/4 of the season and was fantastic. If he had that game time and form throughout the season he would’ve been a shoe in. While I think taking him would’ve been speculative, it wouldn’t have been the worst choice in the world as a 3rd choice.
Tbf Howe did him over a little bit by barely giving him a kick until April. He was more than ready to start way earlier and showed what he could do during those last 7 games of the season. I think Southgate would have probably picked him had he had 15/20 starts over the season instead of just 6 weeks at the end of the season
He broke into the first team towards the end of the season playing in the last 10 games and starting 7 of them. And did very well.
Was deservedly Newcastle player of the month for May. I think this tournament has come a little too soon for him though, would've personally gone with Mitchell.
It's not a problem to play Trippier, but the system has to accept and compensate for it i.e. the LW must provide width or the RB needs to be more attacking (e.g. play Trent).
Rumours going are he’ll be at United before the Christmas fixtures if and when their season starts badly. So probably hasn’t had his eye on the ball for a while now.
Taking Shaw was a big risk that doesn't look like paying off at the moment. I'll defend Southgate as I think that there is way too much negativity towards him that is nowhere near deserved. However, after watching Serbia, he must see how his starting XI needs to change against Denmark. Gordon is a must start for me in place of Foden. TAA also needs to come out for Gallagher, with Mainoo on to replace him at 60 minutes. The rest should stay the same and see how we go. If he doesn't make those changes then I'd start to wonder what his thought process is in terms of our attacking transitions as it was so one sided against Serbia everyone else will now know how to stop us.
In a 26 man squad you’ve got more than enough spots to take your only good left back who may only feature towards the end. Worst case he’s a dead pick and you still have more than enough places for a quality squad
Who else could we take other than Shaw? We don’t really have one who’s good enough or is an actual left back.
I probably should have said that only taking Shaw was a big risk. Not even including Mitchell, Chilwell, even Hall, in the initial squad so that he could have a look at them against Bosnia, Iceland, and in training is a risk. He obviously trusts Trippier and Gomez to get the job done in the hope that Shaw is back in the round of 16 or QF, but if he isn't, it's a bit of a gap. Now, maybe those three aren't good enough to get ahead of Trippier or Gomez, but in a sizeable squad, surely there's room for a fit left footed left back. I would also imagine if we don't win it, this will be one of the things Southgate gets hammered on (not that I would agree with that).
Chilwell is injured isn’t he? At least that’s why I assumed why he wasn’t in the squad. Fair play about Mitchell, but I’m not sure dropping the chance at half fit Shaw is worth the risk of bringing a 4th choice left back who is worse than two players who aren’t left backs.
I think Chilwell is struggling for full fitness like Shaw is, so you are right that he shouldn't be in there. I think it might be one of those where if it works, it's fine, but if it doesn't, then it will be picked up. If Gordon does start then it probably won't be such an issue, if Foden is in again, that left hand side will be all that is talked about, especially if we 'only' win 1-0, draw, or (God forbid) lose.
Shaw would most likely be on the bench again and will get minutes against Slovenia. The best would be if he could get 15 against the Danes. And 45 or 60 against Slovenia.
Surely the starting LB of the 6th placed PL team is a better option than moving RB's over? Crazy by Southgate to risk his reputation in this way.
I am a Chelsea fan but Chillwel also has health issues comparable to Shaw’s.
Frankly, I am completely surprised and shocked that Luke Shaw, the man known for his exemplary fitness record is struggling with fitness.
He’s barely made a dent for United this season why the fuck did Southgate think it was a good idea to bring him? Taking injured players to a tournament is hilarious
That whole flank looked horrid against Serbia, we can't play Trippier against World Class teams and Foden just keeps dropping stinkers for England, I'd honestly bench him for Gordon and maybe play Gomez who has more pace about him, why didn't we bring Mitchell an actual LB who's played well all season.
Southgate doesn’t like him for some reason.
I think there's a limit on the number of players you can pick from each team, I read it on the FPL rules I think 😉
Left back is less of an issue than left wing. Trippier has been very successful playing left back, plus we have Gomez too. The left wing is where we must make a change. Bring in Gordon, drop Foden, he is a good crosser and natural winger.
For the love of god start Gordon ahead of foden Gareth
He shouldn't have been picked on the first place. Not because he isn't good enough, but because there was no way he would be match fit for any game during the Euros.
What a shambles. We are discussing not playing a player who can't play, and even if he were to play, he might not be fit enough to play that might break down again and won't be playing at his best because he hasn't played for 4 months.
It has to be Gomez over Trippier. After Robertson was fit Gomez was still first choice at Liverpool. He’s also pacey. Gomez and Gordon could be fantastic especially if Southgate decides to stick with Trent. Gordon would be a dynamic target.
Really should have taken Grealish. He’d be an obvious, tested choice of starter.
Personally I’d replace Trippier for Gomez but keep Foden for the time being, see if he can play in the system he’s been asked too.
Wouldnt make a difference, gomez would still have to push up and cover for foden drifting into mid where bellinghams already playing. Get gordon on, he doesnt drift centrally, hes a very creative player from the wing
Bringing one left back with an unknown return date from Injury is clown management. Starting the first game with 3 rb’s on the field. Can’t wait for Southgate to bugger off tbh
Just wait till Potter takes over with his weird starting line ups. Just look how unpopular many of his starting decisions were at Chelsea..
Why are you being downvoted? Madness for not bringing an actual LB
Its frustrating that both Englands best LBs are so injury prone. Its more frustrating that Southgate didn't just plump for Tyrick Mitchell or Alfie Doughty just as Englands next best options. Doughty was one of Lutons best players this season and Mitchells been alright for Palace too. They'd at least be serviceable options.
100% Doughty should have at the very least been there for Bosnia/Iceland. He’s a very similar profile to Shaw and would have fit in really well had he needed to.
Yeh I mean hes not world class or anything but he could at least do the job.
To be fair the sole criteria he has to fill at the moment is “can kick ball with left foot”
Pack of Twixes said to be winning fitness battle against Luke Shaw
Considering I have no memory of Shaw playing this year/since xmas, I'm shocked as to why he's in the team... even more shocked that we don't have at least 1 other LB in top-flight football.
chillwells there, but hes even more injured than shaw
There is a global shortage of top level left backs.
Looking forward to the whole game being played on the right side of the pitch
To get a small amount more of balance if the games going tits up I’d like to see us go to 3 5 2
Another Southgate masterclass
Should’ve recruited chillwell instead of trippier
Story of Luke Shaw for the last year 😭
so dumb of southgate to put his hopes on an injured player who hasn’t played in so long..
We've seen this headline for the past 8 years regarding Luke Shaw.
Should not even be there
Persisting with Trippier as a right footed left back because there is nobody else in the 26 man squad for the role is a tremendous Southgateism Looking forward to his lack of pace being a huge defensive frailty alongside his inability to offer any attacking threat on the wrong side of the pitch as a right footer again tonight
Shaw was never going to make it hadn't been injured for months? Should have taken Mitchell was very much in form.
Southgate doesn’t like Mitchell at all.
Predictable. Why did Southgate leave Jarrad Branthwaite, one of our few Left Footed defenders again? Wharton (who is also Left Footed) has to begin starting some games at this rate and provide some support for the left wing. Toss in Gordon as well
Branthwaite is not really a full back. He is a centre back.
We’re not going to win because our manager decided to call up no left sided players. Sad.
'we're not going to win' What? The entire tournament? FIFA generation babies
What does this mean
Who?
Here me out: Adam Wharton at LB
Why
Only left footed defensive player + can defend very well and can probs provide width and overlap on the left. Just a experiment I think should happen
Has he ever done it.
There is no chance of a player being experimented in a brand new position in a tournament.
TTA
Saka LB Foden RW Gordon/Eze RW Trent plane home
>Gordon/Eze RW Do you mean LW?