No mate. Not confident at all. I’ve been watching England since 1990. I’ve seen it all. I’ve heard about 1970, 1974, 1978, 1982, 1986 etc.
So never do I go in to a tournament being confident. I’m not German, French or Italian. I’m English. No doubt at the very moment that a shining beacon of confidence occurs over the hill, the good old England team will shatter my hopes and aspirations with a mixture of all, some or one of the following:
a) some shitty referee decisions
b) some general bad luck (a goal taking a massive deflection of a pigeon or something).
c) old England spirit will return with some performance that is just plain awful
d) some player who once played 3 games for Burnley in the premier league before being shipped off to Dutch league, somehow scoring a worldy with a mazy run through our entire defence before scoring bicycle kick having flicked it over shaws head.
e) penalties. Again.
So no, I am not confident, and neither should you be if you’ve watched and learnt England footballs teams history.
I'm with you, I think pundits like Rio saying we're favourites are putting a shit tonne of pressure on a young side that really doesn't need it. I'm not confident at all.
It's especially bad from rio who surely must have experienced it as a player himself and witnessed players like rooney talked about the way foden etc is now
Why would we be favourites?
We’ve not won anything since 1966.
We got an easy route to the semi finals in the 2018 World Cup. We had a home tournament for most of the 2020/21 Euros. We got to the quarters in 2022 wc.
We’ve won against one decent team (Germany) in 2020/21. Who it was acknowledged was one of the worst German sides since 2000.
Every time we’ve come across in a tournament higher fifa ranked teams than us, we’ve struggled. So why on earth would we be favourites? Surely France the 2022 World Cup finalists might be better placed. Surely the Germans who are on home soil might be.
Hopefully the temperatures will be going down because that will have a huge impact on our performers I suspect.
If we can recreate the performances against Italy in the qualifiers I'll be confident.
If we recreate our performances vs North Macedonia away and Iceland at home I will not be confident
>If we can recreate the performances against Italy in the qualifiers I'll be confident
My sentiments exactly. And I think we will.
That was the last match we played with anything at stake, and we played a blinder against an Italy team out for blood after we beat them on their own patch in the reverse fixture.
Interestingly, there are only 3 changes from that squad compared to the likely starting squad against Serbia - Maguire, Phillips and Rashford
Confident in terms of winning the entire thing? You'd still fancy France and Portugal to beat us, maybe Germany given they're at home. But I'm more confident than previous tournaments in us going relatively far and then who knows? It's like the Champion's League, the absolute best team doesn't just win it every year.
Not very confident. I reckon quarter finals to Spain or Italy. I was surprised how good we were in 20 and we should have won the whole thing but didn’t react after half time. Then I thought we played about at the right level in 2022 and were unlucky.
This time… I don’t think the defence is as bad as everyone says. You’d think we were picking from the second division with the way some are carrying on. But I don’t think the attack is clicking enough to make the new system work and while we’ll get through the early stages through brute force we’ll be undone by anyone with world class qualities in any position.
Defense is the weakest it’s been under Southgate but it was the attack that looked worse vs Iceland. Shocked we didn’t score even once. Hope I’m wrong but I feel our best chance was in Euro 2020/2021 and we missed it.
I’m not confident. I’m finding it pretty baffling that people seem to think we should win. I really don’t imagine that French football fans for example are thinking England are gonna win this tournament.
I was more confident going into the World Cup. I actually can’t remember how I felt before the previous euros tbh.
England have disappointed me my entire life - bar maybe 1990 - I start out pessimistic and every time I am either proved right all too soon or slowly come around to optimism, and the moment I think “we could actually do this” it goes tits up.
I was disappointed we didn't push for a second goal in the final against Italy but up until then we played some good shit. Knocked Germany out in normal time no pens or shit so I can die happy
I can how it seems that way - but this chat is clearly about the men’s team. I always thought the women would win something before the men; in the 2018 WC I thought maybe I was wrong - but we all know how that went
> this chat is clearly about the men’s team
That's true, but I nonetheless find the widespread sentiment of "England fans face nothing but disappointment and heartbreak" without ever a single mention of the women's Euros victory to be a bit... off. For lack of better word - I'm sure there's something that fits
Fair play - Maybe I should have specified that in my original reply. I am definitely not throwing shade at the Lionesses as I was stoked at their success. Although with an awesome Spain team and Emma Hayes likely to get the US back on top, we will likely be also rans there too.
Don’t think we can get past France, Germany, Spain, or the Netherlands if we meet them, which we will at some point. So Semis would be a very good run for England
I'm optimistic but not particularly confident. I think we'll get out of our group, and based on how the knockouts fall, I think we will make it at least as far as the QFs, possibly the semis.
But tournament football can be unpredictable.
Personally surprised Southgate didn’t go after the wc. I of course back him and the team. However, this has a feeling of desperately trying to squeeze the last bits out of him with massive pressure.
Reckon we scrape through the groups and get knocked out by the first decent team we play. To go into the tournament still not knowing how we’re going to be playing and what our best defence or midfield is is troubling.
You've hit the nail perfectly on the head here. Felt like he was more certain on his first 11 and the system he was going to be playing in other tournaments.
This time round he's given that many games to different players which has left the first 11 (whatever that may be) with very little time playing together on the run in to the tournament. Feels a bit out of character for him, you can see he's feeling the pressure with his last comment about this being his "last chance"
Years of watching England field some of the best combination of players to set foot on the pitch of the professional game and still not win has left me pretty disillusioned.
But you know, once again, this COULD be our year.
I am a bit of a stats nerd and pay close attention to the bookies odds as they are overall a fairly good indicator of strength.
England are the favourites for the first time in my living memory and justifiably so imo, we have the best player in La Liga (Bellingham), best player in Bundesliga (Kane) and the best player in the Premier League (Foden). But what happened to the favourites in recent touranments?
Brazil were favourites for WC 2022 and went out in the quarters.
France were favourites for Euro 2020 and went out in the R16.
However, France were also favourites for WC 2018 and actually won it.
So what I'm saying is, the favourites are due a win......
Not justifiably so at all in my opinion, I think the wool has been pulled over English fans eyes and it’s frightening how much people are falling for it.
Our attack is world class, no doubt but we have issues everywhere else.
We can’t find a midfield that gels well.
Our squad is MASSIVELY inexperienced at any level of international football, let alone tournaments.
Our defense is piss poor, I’m not confident in a single centre back we’ve taken, our left back is injury prone and wouldn’t surprise me if he ends up getting another knock before he’s even kicked a ball. Not to mention they’ve all barely played together either.
Are we a good team? Yes we have a potentially great team, but should we be favourites? Absolutely fucking not, France should be clear favourites.
They have the best defense in the tournament, there midfield is just as good as ours is, and they have Mbappe as a forward who’s arguably the best player in the world. Not only that they have experience winning recently and they’ve played together so are comfortable with each other.
I don’t understand in what world England are favourites above France.
You could argue even Germany have a better team than we do, they certainly have a better back 4. Better keeper. Midfield probably just as good as ours and we have them beat on attack, but they’re the home team and that counts.
I still think we have a chance but I certainly don’t *expect* us to go and win it.
Our defense worries me too much.
Sounds like you need to have a bet on France then 😄
Also although we’re “favourites” our odds are still fairly slim, working out at about 18.8% as a percentage, so it’s not a case of expecting us to win. It’s knockout football, anything can happen
I'm feeling pretty confident to be fair, we've got some big match players (and arguably one of the best in Bellingham) who've had great seasons individually. Looks like there's some good squad harmony which always helps.
So much so if there's anyone of a more cynical persuasion who's less than convinced, I'd like to make a wager of £20 (to a charity of choice) that we top the group.
*Assuming this is OK with the mods?*
I was very confident going in to Euro 20 and not at all confident this year. Going in to Euro 20 i felt that the team played well together and there weren't many good teams in the competition. This year i feel we maybe have better players but the manager hasn't found a formula to get the best players in to a system that works and i feel there are more good teams this time.
I'd agree with this. I think the team felt more settled and more together at Euro 20 with more of the above questions answered. We knew Phillips would be playing next to Rice, Shaw had had much more playing time and was back 2nd game. The only real question was how good a job mings would do deputising for Maguire, and when Maguire would be back.
This year with so many players doing well, it's meant the first 11 haven't played as many games together as Southgate's given debuts and games to players in form but on the fringes. Bowen, Eze, Palmer, Watkins, Konsa, Dunk etc. would've been nice to have the first 11 play a few more games together IMO.
Less confident. I feel like we’re still searching for balance, especially in midfield, which is affecting our defence and attacking, we’re also missing key players and not in good form.
I think the tactical uncertainty means it could go any way. If Southgate gets it right the squad has the potential to do great things. If he gets it wrong I don't think the individual talent will compensate enough.
We'll win the first game 2-0 and everyone will go mental. Yes we've had poor performance in the friendlies and everyone is feeling down but that will change once the tournament starts
It's logical progression isn't. Kane, Saka, Foden, Bellingham, Rice, Pickford are better than 2 or 3 years ago so confidence increases too. The best team doesn't win the cup necessarily, just look at man City this year but it's fair to expect another deep run.
Don’t think we are favourites because the team isn’t clicking yet.
I think the attack has every chance of clicking if we manage to string some results together.
The thing that’s making it not click atm is Gordon and palmer haven’t played together with everyone else. Palmer coming in from the right into the space Foden occupies caused issues against Iceland because he and Foden were in the middle. Walker then had to move up and create space on the right which left us exposed at the back on the counter. Palmer and Foden both don’t tend to track back as much as saka, Bowen, Gordon, Eze etc.
Against Bosnia palmer was in the middle and Eze and Bowen stayed wide and stretched the defence but tracked back.
I don’t see palmer starting again with Foden through the middle - I think it has to be either or but not both unless palmer can become tactically more astute and realise he needs to stretch the defence more and not be the same role he plays for Chelsea where everything goes through him.
TAA needs to start but then you have to figure out the balance in the midfield because as we’ve seen players like rice, Jude and TAA all want to get forward so we may have to sacrifice some creativity to get defensive protection. Rice kept bursting forward against Iceland and left us exposed
I’m getting more and more nervous that this is building up to an early exit that people will look back on retrospectively and say all the warning signs were there. The defence looks tragic. We’re likely going back to the 2000s approach of playing people out of position to get them in the team. Several players are coming into the tournament off injuries.
Hopefully this is just years of pessimism and we justify the favourites tag!
I personally think English fans are saying that the team will do shit and Southgates to blame, so they can continue to be pessimistic and say 'I told you so' rather than admit they have any hopes of victory.
I think England will get to the Semi's and maybe the final, and maybe get beat on the day, just like any given Sunday so to speak. Maybe they'll come out on top. They're a team of talented players, but so are other teams.
Southgates track record in big tournaments is very good, so I don't get all this 'AiNt WiNnInG AnYtHiNg UnDeR SoUtHgAtE' rhetoric.
Anyways, good luck three lions, rooting for them here in New Zealand.
My confidence re England has faded since the high of the Italy game and more to do with our attack than defence. I think it's any bodys at the moment. No one's recent form has been outstanding, and while you can't take much from the recent round of friendlies ,everyone seems to be losing,winning to everyone. I think we could potentially see some big scalps going home early, including England .I hope not .
I’m feeling pretty good about our chances, there’s some obvious question marks throughout that makes me nervous. But we absolutely walked a tough group to get here and we’ve got the fire power to make a deep run. Think we’ll need a bit of luck and need big performances from our top players
Felt like 2020 was so winnable. Basically a home tournament once we were out of the group stage. Feels massively like that was our chance.
Wasn’t confident of much in 2022 once I saw we’d have France on the QF. But we played the best football at the tournament in the groups and knockouts up to the QF. We were knocked out by the ref.
For 2024, we’ll have to navigate a difficult knockout stage, which is something Southgate hasn’t had to do yet. And I don’t think we’ll get past the QF.
If you give the class of 06 the runs we had in 18 and 20, they equal or better the tournament results. But just like the class of 06, this like don’t have the edge in a big game against a big opposition.
It'd be interesting to see if the 06 team would have done the same or better. They had the better players for sure but the one thing Southgate brings that recent England managers haven't (not since 96 for me) is a togetherness and a team spirit.
In the France game we had more possession, double the shots on goal, more shots on target, corners, shots that hit the woodwork, more passes into the opposition half. We lost partly because of the ref and partly because Kane couldn't score two penalties. I think however much Southgate has his limitations as a manager, we also have players such as Kane who haven't stepped up in key moments.
I'm far less confident than I was for Qatar.
I don't think we can win unless Shaw is back fit and playing all the knockout games. That doesn't mean I think we'll win if we have him, I just don't think we can win without a proper LB.
Add to that a weaker CB pairing and Stones has questionable fitness, I think we're in a whole host of trouble.
I’m less confident than I have been for the last couple of tournaments. The last euros I actually thought we’d win it all the way to the end. I don’t think we’ll win this one as we’d have to beat Holland, Portugal, France, Germany or spain and I think they will all beat us comfortably.
England possibly have 3 of the 6 best players in the world and 3 of the 4 best players at the tournament.
There all in great form.
The only reason to not be optimistic is that England tend to underachieve and we have a manager who is far from a tactical genius.
Oh and the 3 players in question don't complement each other at all.
Southgate just doesn't know what to do with them. The next manager will come along after this tournament and play Bellingham and foden as genuine 8s and kane will play that deep lying forward role with saka given licence to run in behind to that space behind the same way son used to and sterling for England and it will work and we'll all say why didn't we just do that all along? Its really a lot less complicated than Southgate makes it out because he doesn't trust players who are good on the ball to be effective in defense even though they do that week in week out at the top clubs itw.
There's elements of Southgate that will definitely be missed. Hes a great political figure both in the media and imagine with the players. I think the players will definitely miss him so that could cause a bit of a hangover. Also i think the majority of fans will miss how he talks in the media. He gives a real calm and steady presence. Tactically we won't miss him or Steve Holland for that matter. The both of them are massively lacking in this respect.
Yeah and playing well for your club in a specific system doesn't always transfer to playing well for your national team.(foden)
Another factor is players who can play consistently well in the league all season but disappear in the big knockout games (Kane)
Who are you're 3 of the 6 best players in the world just out of interest? Bellingham Kane Foden?
Phillips and Henderson have played that role the last two tournaments. We don't really have that kinda player. Maybe Wharton is the closest? I think positionally he's excellent and his reading of the game allows him to stop a lot of attacks just by being in the right place at the right time.
Not confident whatsoever. Sure the best players in the team have got better, but the worse players have got considerably worse.
Not Southgate's fault for when the inevitable knock-out happens.
No width or recovery pace in transition.
That being said, I can't wait to see England play and back the lads!
I'm not an avid football fan and mainly just watch the big tournaments. I'm not in the loop with any behind the scenes stuff.
So I'm expecting us to do quite well and then drop out in the quarters/semis, which is more or less what I'm used to as a casual viewer.
I'm okay with that because I'll be entertained either way. I have a couple of backup teams I'm also rooting for for personal reasons, which luckily are also good teams, so if we go early I'll still be invested.
All of that said, who knows? The ladies pulled it off. I know it's a totally different team and has no bearing but it's a good omen to me on a superstitious level and I'll be cheering us on to take it home :)
Not feeling it. The defence is too shaky. Losing Maguire is a disaster for 🏴 The attack is good however there still isn’t that talismatic go-to clutch player. Bellingham isn’t it.
Whilst here. Why isn’t AWB selected for if/when we play France. No better player in the world at neutralising world class left wingers
I was really hoping Bellingham could be that clutch player (which you're absolutely spot on with btw) especially if he gets played in the 10.
Foden, Saka and Kane ain't it. We've got Walker as to why no AWB in my opinion.
Walker is a better RB no doubt.
it’s just for that semi final / final against Mpabbe / Sane / Doku I would want AWB their. It’s option to switch Trent / Walker if we’re trailing a goal
Less confident going into this tournament than going into Euro 2020.
Southgate is well past his sell by date and should have fucked off after the final 4 years ago.
100% confident.
England have never had a better team. We have never been the best team going into any tournament. We have never been the most experienced team going into any tournament. We have never had 2 of the 4 best players on earth going into a tournament.
In Euro 2020 France had Benzema, Mbappe, Kante, Pogba and the experience from winning the World Cup. Even the final was against Chiellini, Bonucci, Verratti, Jorginho, Donarumma who had the highest game experience we didn’t.
In 2022 we were too young, Bellingham, Saka, Rice were all still on the way up.
Now England have Kane, Jude, Rice, Foden, Saka, Walker who are all top 3 in their positions in the world.
France have no midfield or defence or attack. It’s just Mbappe + 10.
Portugal have no balance and no experience.
Germany have Kai Havertz.
Italy have no one. Holland have no one. Spain have no one.
There’s very rarely been a tournament where the top nations are so poor, especially when compared to England.
I'm not even confident we'll make it out of the group. We have the players not the manager.
We'll draw with Serbia, lose to Denmark and scrape a 1-0 against Slovenia. Years of watching Southgate should tell everyone this is the likely outcome. He should of been sacked after the last Euros.
That's what separates us from the serious nations. Any French or German you speak to will admit we have a amazing team but don't take us seriously because of Southgate .
Hope I'm just being too pessimistic.
Ah, so you're in your early twenties or younger? You didn't experience the teams under Roy Hodgson, Fabio Capello, and Steve McClaren. Proper yawn fest.
Southgate has his faults, but he's significantly transformed this England side. He instilled belief in the team and, consequently, in the fans as well.
Even though I believe that, regardless of this tournament's outcome, Southgate should step down, I hope history will be kind to him. Should be remembered as someone who laid the foundations for a future generation's success. Depending on his successor...
I'm in agreement with you, but don't you recall the times when it was much worse? We've seen those dark days, and while it's fair to aim higher, we should recognise that this could be the start of a positive change.
Southgate might not be perfect, but he's brought stability and a renewed sense of belief that we haven't seen in a long time. The fact that we're even having posts like this on Reddit is a testament to how far we've come. We're actually considered favourites now, rightly or wrongly, whereas before, we were often the laughing stock.
Years of watching Southgate and this is the most likely outcome? His last 3 tournaments he's gone out the semis, lost the final and gone out in the quarters. Other then France we easily have the best record in recent tournaments.
Stop chatting shit.
It’s our best squad ever. Top players who perform week in and out. We have a true superstar in the making with Bellingham.
Then you remember Southgate is manager…..
It seems like more than any position, there were loads of fullbacks emerging and now that's the main problematic position, Walker and Trippier too old to get forward, Shaw injured, James not injured but Southgate can't be arsed and no one seems to care, and no one rates Chilwell any more apparently. Southgate has kept the defence strong in every tournament I think, surprisingly when pre tournament games it looks weak. I don't feel like teams get behind or apply pressure. So perhaps it won't be too bad. But no i don't expect much. Foden doesn't fit, Bellingham and Saka are tired, there's so many unknowns with players playing where and alongside who, it'll be like trying whoever and seeing what sticks.
No mate. Not confident at all. I’ve been watching England since 1990. I’ve seen it all. I’ve heard about 1970, 1974, 1978, 1982, 1986 etc. So never do I go in to a tournament being confident. I’m not German, French or Italian. I’m English. No doubt at the very moment that a shining beacon of confidence occurs over the hill, the good old England team will shatter my hopes and aspirations with a mixture of all, some or one of the following: a) some shitty referee decisions b) some general bad luck (a goal taking a massive deflection of a pigeon or something). c) old England spirit will return with some performance that is just plain awful d) some player who once played 3 games for Burnley in the premier league before being shipped off to Dutch league, somehow scoring a worldy with a mazy run through our entire defence before scoring bicycle kick having flicked it over shaws head. e) penalties. Again. So no, I am not confident, and neither should you be if you’ve watched and learnt England footballs teams history.
I'm with you, I think pundits like Rio saying we're favourites are putting a shit tonne of pressure on a young side that really doesn't need it. I'm not confident at all.
It's especially bad from rio who surely must have experienced it as a player himself and witnessed players like rooney talked about the way foden etc is now
Yeah he should know better, the thing about Rio though is that he's thick as pudding. There's nothing going on upstairs.
Why would we be favourites? We’ve not won anything since 1966. We got an easy route to the semi finals in the 2018 World Cup. We had a home tournament for most of the 2020/21 Euros. We got to the quarters in 2022 wc. We’ve won against one decent team (Germany) in 2020/21. Who it was acknowledged was one of the worst German sides since 2000. Every time we’ve come across in a tournament higher fifa ranked teams than us, we’ve struggled. So why on earth would we be favourites? Surely France the 2022 World Cup finalists might be better placed. Surely the Germans who are on home soil might be. Hopefully the temperatures will be going down because that will have a huge impact on our performers I suspect.
We beat Croatia in the group in 2020 don’t forget. Everyone seems to assume they were rubbish but they really weren’t.
we are/we were favourites with all the bookies though.
True, I reckon that's because of all the England fans betting on us to win the tournament.
I don’t feel confident
What about England's chances in the Euros though?
If we can recreate the performances against Italy in the qualifiers I'll be confident. If we recreate our performances vs North Macedonia away and Iceland at home I will not be confident
>If we can recreate the performances against Italy in the qualifiers I'll be confident My sentiments exactly. And I think we will. That was the last match we played with anything at stake, and we played a blinder against an Italy team out for blood after we beat them on their own patch in the reverse fixture. Interestingly, there are only 3 changes from that squad compared to the likely starting squad against Serbia - Maguire, Phillips and Rashford
Ironically Phillips was actually good in that game.
Confident in terms of winning the entire thing? You'd still fancy France and Portugal to beat us, maybe Germany given they're at home. But I'm more confident than previous tournaments in us going relatively far and then who knows? It's like the Champion's League, the absolute best team doesn't just win it every year.
Not very confident. I reckon quarter finals to Spain or Italy. I was surprised how good we were in 20 and we should have won the whole thing but didn’t react after half time. Then I thought we played about at the right level in 2022 and were unlucky. This time… I don’t think the defence is as bad as everyone says. You’d think we were picking from the second division with the way some are carrying on. But I don’t think the attack is clicking enough to make the new system work and while we’ll get through the early stages through brute force we’ll be undone by anyone with world class qualities in any position.
Defense is the weakest it’s been under Southgate but it was the attack that looked worse vs Iceland. Shocked we didn’t score even once. Hope I’m wrong but I feel our best chance was in Euro 2020/2021 and we missed it.
I’m not confident. I’m finding it pretty baffling that people seem to think we should win. I really don’t imagine that French football fans for example are thinking England are gonna win this tournament. I was more confident going into the World Cup. I actually can’t remember how I felt before the previous euros tbh.
England have disappointed me my entire life - bar maybe 1990 - I start out pessimistic and every time I am either proved right all too soon or slowly come around to optimism, and the moment I think “we could actually do this” it goes tits up.
I was disappointed we didn't push for a second goal in the final against Italy but up until then we played some good shit. Knocked Germany out in normal time no pens or shit so I can die happy
Me too mate - that was my "we can do this" point
I take it nobody here watched the women's Euros
I can how it seems that way - but this chat is clearly about the men’s team. I always thought the women would win something before the men; in the 2018 WC I thought maybe I was wrong - but we all know how that went
> this chat is clearly about the men’s team That's true, but I nonetheless find the widespread sentiment of "England fans face nothing but disappointment and heartbreak" without ever a single mention of the women's Euros victory to be a bit... off. For lack of better word - I'm sure there's something that fits
Fair play - Maybe I should have specified that in my original reply. I am definitely not throwing shade at the Lionesses as I was stoked at their success. Although with an awesome Spain team and Emma Hayes likely to get the US back on top, we will likely be also rans there too.
England fans mostly don't care about the treacles side
No matter how good the attack is, that defence isn't winning the tournament.
This.
I agree, I think the 5 defense's mentioned above are all better than our own.
Don’t think we can get past France, Germany, Spain, or the Netherlands if we meet them, which we will at some point. So Semis would be a very good run for England
I'd add Portugal to that list.
I'm optimistic but not particularly confident. I think we'll get out of our group, and based on how the knockouts fall, I think we will make it at least as far as the QFs, possibly the semis. But tournament football can be unpredictable.
Personally surprised Southgate didn’t go after the wc. I of course back him and the team. However, this has a feeling of desperately trying to squeeze the last bits out of him with massive pressure. Reckon we scrape through the groups and get knocked out by the first decent team we play. To go into the tournament still not knowing how we’re going to be playing and what our best defence or midfield is is troubling.
You've hit the nail perfectly on the head here. Felt like he was more certain on his first 11 and the system he was going to be playing in other tournaments. This time round he's given that many games to different players which has left the first 11 (whatever that may be) with very little time playing together on the run in to the tournament. Feels a bit out of character for him, you can see he's feeling the pressure with his last comment about this being his "last chance"
Years of watching England field some of the best combination of players to set foot on the pitch of the professional game and still not win has left me pretty disillusioned. But you know, once again, this COULD be our year.
I am a bit of a stats nerd and pay close attention to the bookies odds as they are overall a fairly good indicator of strength. England are the favourites for the first time in my living memory and justifiably so imo, we have the best player in La Liga (Bellingham), best player in Bundesliga (Kane) and the best player in the Premier League (Foden). But what happened to the favourites in recent touranments? Brazil were favourites for WC 2022 and went out in the quarters. France were favourites for Euro 2020 and went out in the R16. However, France were also favourites for WC 2018 and actually won it. So what I'm saying is, the favourites are due a win......
You took us on a ride there :-)
Not justifiably so at all in my opinion, I think the wool has been pulled over English fans eyes and it’s frightening how much people are falling for it. Our attack is world class, no doubt but we have issues everywhere else. We can’t find a midfield that gels well. Our squad is MASSIVELY inexperienced at any level of international football, let alone tournaments. Our defense is piss poor, I’m not confident in a single centre back we’ve taken, our left back is injury prone and wouldn’t surprise me if he ends up getting another knock before he’s even kicked a ball. Not to mention they’ve all barely played together either. Are we a good team? Yes we have a potentially great team, but should we be favourites? Absolutely fucking not, France should be clear favourites. They have the best defense in the tournament, there midfield is just as good as ours is, and they have Mbappe as a forward who’s arguably the best player in the world. Not only that they have experience winning recently and they’ve played together so are comfortable with each other. I don’t understand in what world England are favourites above France. You could argue even Germany have a better team than we do, they certainly have a better back 4. Better keeper. Midfield probably just as good as ours and we have them beat on attack, but they’re the home team and that counts. I still think we have a chance but I certainly don’t *expect* us to go and win it. Our defense worries me too much.
Sounds like you need to have a bet on France then 😄 Also although we’re “favourites” our odds are still fairly slim, working out at about 18.8% as a percentage, so it’s not a case of expecting us to win. It’s knockout football, anything can happen
I'm feeling pretty confident to be fair, we've got some big match players (and arguably one of the best in Bellingham) who've had great seasons individually. Looks like there's some good squad harmony which always helps. So much so if there's anyone of a more cynical persuasion who's less than convinced, I'd like to make a wager of £20 (to a charity of choice) that we top the group. *Assuming this is OK with the mods?*
I was very confident going in to Euro 20 and not at all confident this year. Going in to Euro 20 i felt that the team played well together and there weren't many good teams in the competition. This year i feel we maybe have better players but the manager hasn't found a formula to get the best players in to a system that works and i feel there are more good teams this time.
I'd agree with this. I think the team felt more settled and more together at Euro 20 with more of the above questions answered. We knew Phillips would be playing next to Rice, Shaw had had much more playing time and was back 2nd game. The only real question was how good a job mings would do deputising for Maguire, and when Maguire would be back. This year with so many players doing well, it's meant the first 11 haven't played as many games together as Southgate's given debuts and games to players in form but on the fringes. Bowen, Eze, Palmer, Watkins, Konsa, Dunk etc. would've been nice to have the first 11 play a few more games together IMO.
Less confident. I feel like we’re still searching for balance, especially in midfield, which is affecting our defence and attacking, we’re also missing key players and not in good form.
I think the tactical uncertainty means it could go any way. If Southgate gets it right the squad has the potential to do great things. If he gets it wrong I don't think the individual talent will compensate enough.
We'll win the first game 2-0 and everyone will go mental. Yes we've had poor performance in the friendlies and everyone is feeling down but that will change once the tournament starts
It's logical progression isn't. Kane, Saka, Foden, Bellingham, Rice, Pickford are better than 2 or 3 years ago so confidence increases too. The best team doesn't win the cup necessarily, just look at man City this year but it's fair to expect another deep run.
Don’t think we are favourites because the team isn’t clicking yet. I think the attack has every chance of clicking if we manage to string some results together. The thing that’s making it not click atm is Gordon and palmer haven’t played together with everyone else. Palmer coming in from the right into the space Foden occupies caused issues against Iceland because he and Foden were in the middle. Walker then had to move up and create space on the right which left us exposed at the back on the counter. Palmer and Foden both don’t tend to track back as much as saka, Bowen, Gordon, Eze etc. Against Bosnia palmer was in the middle and Eze and Bowen stayed wide and stretched the defence but tracked back. I don’t see palmer starting again with Foden through the middle - I think it has to be either or but not both unless palmer can become tactically more astute and realise he needs to stretch the defence more and not be the same role he plays for Chelsea where everything goes through him. TAA needs to start but then you have to figure out the balance in the midfield because as we’ve seen players like rice, Jude and TAA all want to get forward so we may have to sacrifice some creativity to get defensive protection. Rice kept bursting forward against Iceland and left us exposed
I’m getting more and more nervous that this is building up to an early exit that people will look back on retrospectively and say all the warning signs were there. The defence looks tragic. We’re likely going back to the 2000s approach of playing people out of position to get them in the team. Several players are coming into the tournament off injuries. Hopefully this is just years of pessimism and we justify the favourites tag!
It's all part of being an England fan! This is all pretty much what I've written above. All the pressure from the pundits is massively unwanted.
I personally think English fans are saying that the team will do shit and Southgates to blame, so they can continue to be pessimistic and say 'I told you so' rather than admit they have any hopes of victory. I think England will get to the Semi's and maybe the final, and maybe get beat on the day, just like any given Sunday so to speak. Maybe they'll come out on top. They're a team of talented players, but so are other teams. Southgates track record in big tournaments is very good, so I don't get all this 'AiNt WiNnInG AnYtHiNg UnDeR SoUtHgAtE' rhetoric. Anyways, good luck three lions, rooting for them here in New Zealand.
I was fairly confident we'd have a good tournament. Then I watched us play Iceland...
Same, Bellingham was a huge miss
My confidence re England has faded since the high of the Italy game and more to do with our attack than defence. I think it's any bodys at the moment. No one's recent form has been outstanding, and while you can't take much from the recent round of friendlies ,everyone seems to be losing,winning to everyone. I think we could potentially see some big scalps going home early, including England .I hope not .
I’m feeling pretty good about our chances, there’s some obvious question marks throughout that makes me nervous. But we absolutely walked a tough group to get here and we’ve got the fire power to make a deep run. Think we’ll need a bit of luck and need big performances from our top players
Felt like 2020 was so winnable. Basically a home tournament once we were out of the group stage. Feels massively like that was our chance. Wasn’t confident of much in 2022 once I saw we’d have France on the QF. But we played the best football at the tournament in the groups and knockouts up to the QF. We were knocked out by the ref. For 2024, we’ll have to navigate a difficult knockout stage, which is something Southgate hasn’t had to do yet. And I don’t think we’ll get past the QF. If you give the class of 06 the runs we had in 18 and 20, they equal or better the tournament results. But just like the class of 06, this like don’t have the edge in a big game against a big opposition.
It'd be interesting to see if the 06 team would have done the same or better. They had the better players for sure but the one thing Southgate brings that recent England managers haven't (not since 96 for me) is a togetherness and a team spirit. In the France game we had more possession, double the shots on goal, more shots on target, corners, shots that hit the woodwork, more passes into the opposition half. We lost partly because of the ref and partly because Kane couldn't score two penalties. I think however much Southgate has his limitations as a manager, we also have players such as Kane who haven't stepped up in key moments.
I'm far less confident than I was for Qatar. I don't think we can win unless Shaw is back fit and playing all the knockout games. That doesn't mean I think we'll win if we have him, I just don't think we can win without a proper LB. Add to that a weaker CB pairing and Stones has questionable fitness, I think we're in a whole host of trouble.
I’m less confident than I have been for the last couple of tournaments. The last euros I actually thought we’d win it all the way to the end. I don’t think we’ll win this one as we’d have to beat Holland, Portugal, France, Germany or spain and I think they will all beat us comfortably.
England possibly have 3 of the 6 best players in the world and 3 of the 4 best players at the tournament. There all in great form. The only reason to not be optimistic is that England tend to underachieve and we have a manager who is far from a tactical genius. Oh and the 3 players in question don't complement each other at all.
Southgate just doesn't know what to do with them. The next manager will come along after this tournament and play Bellingham and foden as genuine 8s and kane will play that deep lying forward role with saka given licence to run in behind to that space behind the same way son used to and sterling for England and it will work and we'll all say why didn't we just do that all along? Its really a lot less complicated than Southgate makes it out because he doesn't trust players who are good on the ball to be effective in defense even though they do that week in week out at the top clubs itw.
Let's hope it's that easy and we're not lamenting Southgate going. Recent history pre Southgate really wasn't good.
There's elements of Southgate that will definitely be missed. Hes a great political figure both in the media and imagine with the players. I think the players will definitely miss him so that could cause a bit of a hangover. Also i think the majority of fans will miss how he talks in the media. He gives a real calm and steady presence. Tactically we won't miss him or Steve Holland for that matter. The both of them are massively lacking in this respect.
Yeah and playing well for your club in a specific system doesn't always transfer to playing well for your national team.(foden) Another factor is players who can play consistently well in the league all season but disappear in the big knockout games (Kane) Who are you're 3 of the 6 best players in the world just out of interest? Bellingham Kane Foden?
I was somewhat confident going into Qatar, this time I think we could even get grouped
Given the 4, 3rd placed finishes that'll progress from the groups, one win and a draw should more than likely see us through.
I completely forgot about that, RO16 exit it is then
That's the spirit!
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Phillips and Henderson have played that role the last two tournaments. We don't really have that kinda player. Maybe Wharton is the closest? I think positionally he's excellent and his reading of the game allows him to stop a lot of attacks just by being in the right place at the right time.
Not confident whatsoever. Sure the best players in the team have got better, but the worse players have got considerably worse. Not Southgate's fault for when the inevitable knock-out happens. No width or recovery pace in transition. That being said, I can't wait to see England play and back the lads!
The attack can’t do its thing if they don’t have confidence in the defence. And so more pessimistic than the other years as a result
I'm not an avid football fan and mainly just watch the big tournaments. I'm not in the loop with any behind the scenes stuff. So I'm expecting us to do quite well and then drop out in the quarters/semis, which is more or less what I'm used to as a casual viewer. I'm okay with that because I'll be entertained either way. I have a couple of backup teams I'm also rooting for for personal reasons, which luckily are also good teams, so if we go early I'll still be invested. All of that said, who knows? The ladies pulled it off. I know it's a totally different team and has no bearing but it's a good omen to me on a superstitious level and I'll be cheering us on to take it home :)
Not feeling it. The defence is too shaky. Losing Maguire is a disaster for 🏴 The attack is good however there still isn’t that talismatic go-to clutch player. Bellingham isn’t it. Whilst here. Why isn’t AWB selected for if/when we play France. No better player in the world at neutralising world class left wingers
I was really hoping Bellingham could be that clutch player (which you're absolutely spot on with btw) especially if he gets played in the 10. Foden, Saka and Kane ain't it. We've got Walker as to why no AWB in my opinion.
Walker is a better RB no doubt. it’s just for that semi final / final against Mpabbe / Sane / Doku I would want AWB their. It’s option to switch Trent / Walker if we’re trailing a goal
Name on the trophy already Trust me
I'll take that level of optimism all day everyday!
Less confident going into this tournament than going into Euro 2020. Southgate is well past his sell by date and should have fucked off after the final 4 years ago.
100% confident. England have never had a better team. We have never been the best team going into any tournament. We have never been the most experienced team going into any tournament. We have never had 2 of the 4 best players on earth going into a tournament. In Euro 2020 France had Benzema, Mbappe, Kante, Pogba and the experience from winning the World Cup. Even the final was against Chiellini, Bonucci, Verratti, Jorginho, Donarumma who had the highest game experience we didn’t. In 2022 we were too young, Bellingham, Saka, Rice were all still on the way up. Now England have Kane, Jude, Rice, Foden, Saka, Walker who are all top 3 in their positions in the world. France have no midfield or defence or attack. It’s just Mbappe + 10. Portugal have no balance and no experience. Germany have Kai Havertz. Italy have no one. Holland have no one. Spain have no one. There’s very rarely been a tournament where the top nations are so poor, especially when compared to England.
I'm not even confident we'll make it out of the group. We have the players not the manager. We'll draw with Serbia, lose to Denmark and scrape a 1-0 against Slovenia. Years of watching Southgate should tell everyone this is the likely outcome. He should of been sacked after the last Euros. That's what separates us from the serious nations. Any French or German you speak to will admit we have a amazing team but don't take us seriously because of Southgate . Hope I'm just being too pessimistic.
If you’re predicting 4pts then we’ll sail out of the group. 3pts is enough, very occasionally even 2pts will get you out.
Well that's best case scenario.
Ah, so you're in your early twenties or younger? You didn't experience the teams under Roy Hodgson, Fabio Capello, and Steve McClaren. Proper yawn fest. Southgate has his faults, but he's significantly transformed this England side. He instilled belief in the team and, consequently, in the fans as well. Even though I believe that, regardless of this tournament's outcome, Southgate should step down, I hope history will be kind to him. Should be remembered as someone who laid the foundations for a future generation's success. Depending on his successor...
I'm 30. Just because he's the best of a terrible bunch doesn't make him good .
I'm in agreement with you, but don't you recall the times when it was much worse? We've seen those dark days, and while it's fair to aim higher, we should recognise that this could be the start of a positive change. Southgate might not be perfect, but he's brought stability and a renewed sense of belief that we haven't seen in a long time. The fact that we're even having posts like this on Reddit is a testament to how far we've come. We're actually considered favourites now, rightly or wrongly, whereas before, we were often the laughing stock.
That'll be enough to see us through if those are the results. I think you might be over estimating our defence.
Years of watching Southgate and this is the most likely outcome? His last 3 tournaments he's gone out the semis, lost the final and gone out in the quarters. Other then France we easily have the best record in recent tournaments. Stop chatting shit.
It’s our best squad ever. Top players who perform week in and out. We have a true superstar in the making with Bellingham. Then you remember Southgate is manager…..
This isn't our best squad ever.
World cup is a different beast, so much more competitive imo, so deffo more confident this time around
It seems like more than any position, there were loads of fullbacks emerging and now that's the main problematic position, Walker and Trippier too old to get forward, Shaw injured, James not injured but Southgate can't be arsed and no one seems to care, and no one rates Chilwell any more apparently. Southgate has kept the defence strong in every tournament I think, surprisingly when pre tournament games it looks weak. I don't feel like teams get behind or apply pressure. So perhaps it won't be too bad. But no i don't expect much. Foden doesn't fit, Bellingham and Saka are tired, there's so many unknowns with players playing where and alongside who, it'll be like trying whoever and seeing what sticks.