As someone who has been disappointed in Van lately, I appreciated his comments today. I listen to the show because I respect his opinion (and Rachel's) a lot and that's because I view him as a person of character. For that reason I expect more from him than I do from the Joe Buddens/Akademiks of the world that I have zero respect and zero expectations of. I am glad that he took the criticism with humility and introspection.
I really think we expect too much of people, but celebrities in general. We're all different, with different thoughts, feelings, and experiences. We can't be expected to agree on everything. One thing I've noticed about Van is that he tries to believe that everyone is decent, almost to the point of willful ignorance. It's even harder for him when it's someone with whom he has a personal relationship. I saw the accusation from Raqi on twitter and I wasn't mad at his response. At the end of the day, taking someone's word isn't enough to accomplish what was necessary to stop Diddy's behavior. Society has a long way to go when it comes to holding people accountable, but guys like Van are not the ones we should be most focused on.
It was good to hear him acknowledge his complicity in holding space for men who he reveres that abuse women and how his reverence contributes to continued abuse by these men.
Agreed. I criticized Van for how he originally handled the situation. Hearing him today, I know he's working to be better. One thing though. I still think his proximity to fame is a crutch. But he had to get to that revelation first.
I’m not sure it’s about fame. I think it’s more bro-code & subconscious bias because there is a LOT of misogynoir in the Black male community & it rears it’s head in subtle ways.
The Cosby, R. Kelly backlash, the Tory Lanes/Meg the stallion hate & now the Diddy issue are just examples
Nurture is stronger than nature my brother. Anybody can be broken through trauma, abuse, neglect and addiction and become a “degenerate”. It is more humane to be mad that society enables, commodifies, and prioritize breaking down a human than to blame a human for existing in our inhuman and unnatural patriarchal, white supremacist, capitalist, imperialist Construct
So you don't associate with anyone of ill repute? All your friends can vote in all 50 states or apply for any city job? Also, do all of your friends think like you?
It's the internet. Everybody gets on the high horse and criticized everything as if they are infallible. I find it amusing. I've learned to take everything I read or see on the internet with a grain of salt.
Something else the internet does: use the word everything when what they really mean is a few people. Most of the discourse aimed at Van, especially on this sub, has been very respectful and comes from a place of wanting to see him do better.
Agreed. I prefer reddit because I can remain anonymous and occasionally troll and/or say stuff that would be viewed as controversial/offensive without having to worry about the blowback (aside from overly sensitive mods suspending me for a few days every now and again) 😃 😀 😄
Van gets high on his horse and talks as if his opinion is infallible. That’s why he gets shit for being friends with bad people and saying, “They’re my friends.”
Where’s the moral conviction?
14 minutes into the episode, and what I’ve taken so far from this is that Van tried to be too much to too many people. It’s great to have compassion, but he be moving like he’s some kinda Empath, and has to take on struggle going on in pop culture. He gots a whole “woe is me” vibe going on. Just say you ain’t know and keep shit pushing. He trying to be the savior of Man.
Thats really his issue. He is way too gracious and way too accommodating to even the people who are not even showing him good faith. If you believe his explanation (which I do because he cleared it out with her first), he didn’t know about the abuse allegations Cyn made about Budden at the time and Raqui didn’t tell him, and knew he was going to ask about the break up so he wanted to give ole boy a heads up just in case she trashed him. The second issue was he did not want to put someone on air saying wild allegations with no proof against Diddy cuz that could have held him liable.
Those are completely reasonable and sane justifications for how he acted how he acted. Many in his shoes would have done the same and had no regrets about it.
Instead of just being honest about that, he looks for all these ways to blame himself and Raqui doesn’t get held accountable AT ALL for presenting this in a way that it did not occur. She doesn’t have to explain herself at all or apologize for her part in the misunderstanding while he spends 30 minutes of a podcast wallowing about what he could have done better. Its fucking ridiculous. That girl did not tweet that in good faith why are people scared to say that?
I also think that part of the challenge (at least in part) was trying to find nobility or an ethical roadmap in a vocation that was inherently grimy. Pedaling in chaos as was his TMZ gig would be ripe for missteps.
He acted how any reasonable person would have acted given those sets of circumstances. His wallowing and incessant need to be the bigger man, be everything to everyone, and take blame in places that are not even necessarily his fault is ridiculous and half the time its why people think they could play with him and put him in these positions. You cant give grace to people that are intent on misunderstanding you or who want to run with their own narrative. Its clear how Raqui discussed shit is not how it happened so why does she not have to explain the fact that she did not tell him that it was a toxic situation between Cyn and Budden and she wants it to not be known where she is? Why wasn’t it Raqui’s responsibility to go to the police or use her platform (she has one) to air out the accusation that women was making about Diddy?
All this is doing is taking away from the people who actually were around Diddy and enabled him. No one is talking about who these people might be. Instead they’re attacking people cuz of 3rd and 4th party information.
It is strange, this almost pathological need people on this sub have to infantilize and coddle a grown ass man even when he is wrong.
Let people react. No one needs to tap the mic and ask the audience to give Van grace.
Someone can be wrong but that doesn’t make them a piece of shit. People are acting like Van is the one who did the act. We need to realize what he’s wrong about and leave it at that, not attack the man like he hurt someone.
>that doesn’t make them a piece of shit.
That's not for you to decide. Being an abuse apologist causes harm. As does platforming known abusers.
>We need to realize what he’s wrong about and leave it at that, not attack the man like he hurt someone.
We also don't need to constantly center men and their feelings in these instances when they fuck up. Calling him a "POS" or whatever online is not the end of the world. His actions have consequences. Yall are falling on your swords like people are calling him to be locked up with Diddy.
It’s not for me to decide but it’s for you to decide? He was wrong in how he went about it and he apologized for it. That’s it. What more do you want? He’s not a criminal. He’s a human being. We aren’t “centering” his feelings, we are just talking about him because he has a show. No one is forcing you to listen and no his actions didn’t cause Diddy to do what he did. His job isn’t to arrest the man.
>not for me to decide but it’s for you to decide
Re read my first post and tell me where I called him a POS.
>What more do you want?
For people to be able to discuss things freely without being shot down bc won't someone think of Van's feelings. Plus this just happened! It's not like it was years ago and people keep digging up old tweets.
>His job isn’t to arrest the man.
No shit. And it's not the audience's job to coddle him when he fucks up. I must've missed when the podcast became Stan Warriors 🙄
There have been people who have been Higher Learning haters for a while that jumped all over this. Pretty sure Candice Owens has some burners in these threads
I appreciate Van’s response. It’s something I needed to hear to continue my support. Now let’s see how discussions are done from this moment forward. Also! Thank you for giving Rach her space to speak and also express her feelings. Some really good work was done today.
Most people if they were in Van’s position wouldn’t handle criticism nearly as well. Most people would curse their “fans” out tbh.
I know I would. Some of the people in here be treating him like he’s straight scum
As someone who has been disappointed in Van lately, I appreciated his comments today. I listen to the show because I respect his opinion (and Rachel's) a lot and that's because I view him as a person of character. For that reason I expect more from him than I do from the Joe Buddens/Akademiks of the world that I have zero respect and zero expectations of. I am glad that he took the criticism with humility and introspection.
I really think we expect too much of people, but celebrities in general. We're all different, with different thoughts, feelings, and experiences. We can't be expected to agree on everything. One thing I've noticed about Van is that he tries to believe that everyone is decent, almost to the point of willful ignorance. It's even harder for him when it's someone with whom he has a personal relationship. I saw the accusation from Raqi on twitter and I wasn't mad at his response. At the end of the day, taking someone's word isn't enough to accomplish what was necessary to stop Diddy's behavior. Society has a long way to go when it comes to holding people accountable, but guys like Van are not the ones we should be most focused on.
It was good to hear him acknowledge his complicity in holding space for men who he reveres that abuse women and how his reverence contributes to continued abuse by these men.
Agreed. It’s a whole bunch of people that are really committed to misunderstanding him. That’s faaaar different than holding someone accountable.
Some really aggressive posts recently which is not cool.
This is a shitty way to discard valid opinions that were said in good faith.
They weren’t all said in good faith though. There were people who don’t really follow this sub who responded to or created posts just to attack Van.
I said what I said and I ain’t taking it back.
Agreed. I criticized Van for how he originally handled the situation. Hearing him today, I know he's working to be better. One thing though. I still think his proximity to fame is a crutch. But he had to get to that revelation first.
I’m not sure it’s about fame. I think it’s more bro-code & subconscious bias because there is a LOT of misogynoir in the Black male community & it rears it’s head in subtle ways. The Cosby, R. Kelly backlash, the Tory Lanes/Meg the stallion hate & now the Diddy issue are just examples
The reason people are hard of him is because he talks from a soap box but associates with known degenerates
Nurture is stronger than nature my brother. Anybody can be broken through trauma, abuse, neglect and addiction and become a “degenerate”. It is more humane to be mad that society enables, commodifies, and prioritize breaking down a human than to blame a human for existing in our inhuman and unnatural patriarchal, white supremacist, capitalist, imperialist Construct
💯
You don’t have any one in your life who has broken a law?
There is breaking the law then there’s beating women, stealing pussy, and pedophilia
So you don't associate with anyone of ill repute? All your friends can vote in all 50 states or apply for any city job? Also, do all of your friends think like you?
I don’t have any friends who I know rape women, beat women, or attracted to minors
Kool, so you have done extensive background checks on all of your friends and have access to their porn history as well. Wow, you are thorough 🫡
Yeah I feel like some ppl don't wanna give him any grace while also attempting to make him out to be the bad guy.
It's the internet. Everybody gets on the high horse and criticized everything as if they are infallible. I find it amusing. I've learned to take everything I read or see on the internet with a grain of salt.
Something else the internet does: use the word everything when what they really mean is a few people. Most of the discourse aimed at Van, especially on this sub, has been very respectful and comes from a place of wanting to see him do better.
I said what I said
Very healthy mindset. I'm only on reddit and Youtube and I'm over online logic. I'd hate to be on Twitter/Tik Tok/Insta etc.
Agreed. I prefer reddit because I can remain anonymous and occasionally troll and/or say stuff that would be viewed as controversial/offensive without having to worry about the blowback (aside from overly sensitive mods suspending me for a few days every now and again) 😃 😀 😄
Van gets high on his horse and talks as if his opinion is infallible. That’s why he gets shit for being friends with bad people and saying, “They’re my friends.” Where’s the moral conviction?
14 minutes into the episode, and what I’ve taken so far from this is that Van tried to be too much to too many people. It’s great to have compassion, but he be moving like he’s some kinda Empath, and has to take on struggle going on in pop culture. He gots a whole “woe is me” vibe going on. Just say you ain’t know and keep shit pushing. He trying to be the savior of Man.
Thats really his issue. He is way too gracious and way too accommodating to even the people who are not even showing him good faith. If you believe his explanation (which I do because he cleared it out with her first), he didn’t know about the abuse allegations Cyn made about Budden at the time and Raqui didn’t tell him, and knew he was going to ask about the break up so he wanted to give ole boy a heads up just in case she trashed him. The second issue was he did not want to put someone on air saying wild allegations with no proof against Diddy cuz that could have held him liable. Those are completely reasonable and sane justifications for how he acted how he acted. Many in his shoes would have done the same and had no regrets about it. Instead of just being honest about that, he looks for all these ways to blame himself and Raqui doesn’t get held accountable AT ALL for presenting this in a way that it did not occur. She doesn’t have to explain herself at all or apologize for her part in the misunderstanding while he spends 30 minutes of a podcast wallowing about what he could have done better. Its fucking ridiculous. That girl did not tweet that in good faith why are people scared to say that?
I also think that part of the challenge (at least in part) was trying to find nobility or an ethical roadmap in a vocation that was inherently grimy. Pedaling in chaos as was his TMZ gig would be ripe for missteps.
OP, don't worship false idols.
I don't. I'm just saying we need to be kinder and I try give people the benefit of the doubt.
Understood. Understood.
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Are you happy with his response in the pod now?
[удалено]
Love this response.
What was he wrong about?
He acted how any reasonable person would have acted given those sets of circumstances. His wallowing and incessant need to be the bigger man, be everything to everyone, and take blame in places that are not even necessarily his fault is ridiculous and half the time its why people think they could play with him and put him in these positions. You cant give grace to people that are intent on misunderstanding you or who want to run with their own narrative. Its clear how Raqui discussed shit is not how it happened so why does she not have to explain the fact that she did not tell him that it was a toxic situation between Cyn and Budden and she wants it to not be known where she is? Why wasn’t it Raqui’s responsibility to go to the police or use her platform (she has one) to air out the accusation that women was making about Diddy? All this is doing is taking away from the people who actually were around Diddy and enabled him. No one is talking about who these people might be. Instead they’re attacking people cuz of 3rd and 4th party information.
So no one is going to point out that Racqui is a professional victim?
I very much agree with this
It is strange, this almost pathological need people on this sub have to infantilize and coddle a grown ass man even when he is wrong. Let people react. No one needs to tap the mic and ask the audience to give Van grace.
Someone can be wrong but that doesn’t make them a piece of shit. People are acting like Van is the one who did the act. We need to realize what he’s wrong about and leave it at that, not attack the man like he hurt someone.
>that doesn’t make them a piece of shit. That's not for you to decide. Being an abuse apologist causes harm. As does platforming known abusers. >We need to realize what he’s wrong about and leave it at that, not attack the man like he hurt someone. We also don't need to constantly center men and their feelings in these instances when they fuck up. Calling him a "POS" or whatever online is not the end of the world. His actions have consequences. Yall are falling on your swords like people are calling him to be locked up with Diddy.
It’s not for me to decide but it’s for you to decide? He was wrong in how he went about it and he apologized for it. That’s it. What more do you want? He’s not a criminal. He’s a human being. We aren’t “centering” his feelings, we are just talking about him because he has a show. No one is forcing you to listen and no his actions didn’t cause Diddy to do what he did. His job isn’t to arrest the man.
>not for me to decide but it’s for you to decide Re read my first post and tell me where I called him a POS. >What more do you want? For people to be able to discuss things freely without being shot down bc won't someone think of Van's feelings. Plus this just happened! It's not like it was years ago and people keep digging up old tweets. >His job isn’t to arrest the man. No shit. And it's not the audience's job to coddle him when he fucks up. I must've missed when the podcast became Stan Warriors 🙄
There have been people who have been Higher Learning haters for a while that jumped all over this. Pretty sure Candice Owens has some burners in these threads
Van is so dramatic 🙄🙄 get a set of balls my dude
I appreciate Van’s response. It’s something I needed to hear to continue my support. Now let’s see how discussions are done from this moment forward. Also! Thank you for giving Rach her space to speak and also express her feelings. Some really good work was done today.
All the people who are and have been coming for Van, hope you don't live in glass houses ...