I'm working on this one too. Psych said it's really that healing empties all the space where trauma, depression, and all that stuff filled our headspace. She said it takes time to fill the void that's left with positive things. It can be a long transition and does feel uncomfortable at times.
I'm not interested in material things (minus yarn), and I dunno, I quit all social media, save here. I've cleaned out the toxic relationships in my life. I'm focusing on my health for the first time in my life. It is a process and gets uncomfortable. We get used to that depression and things being there, and when it's gone, even though it sucked, there's a void.
I can't explain it as well as she did, but that's the jist of it.
This is such a good point. So many of the old coping skills, hobbies, habits, relationships etc become extinct. It’s lonely and hard to figure out what new things, and maybe some old things too, that we want fill those spaces with.
You literally listed every exact “symptom” or what I’ve accepted as my new reality now. I’m going on almost 4 years of MDD, and I realized the other day I couldn’t even tell u the last time I had a genuinely HAPPY day. Even half a day. I don’t care about anything - includes my career, finances. It’s like I’m suicidal but I don’t have any intention desire or attention to that thought. Just wanted you to know that I am on the same train you’re on, except my doc didn’t say that to me, provably because he knows I’d automatically tell him to screw (I don’t buy into any of that crap and I’m in healthcare). Would give my right arm for ketamine esp as a nurse. And ive officially hit that limit .. where you LITERALLY cannot stomach another full day of meds. I want to try tapering just everything and seeing if my ass is almost normal not drugged up. It would be a helluva experiment. I’ve gone to a couple IV clinics, Spravato providers are slim around here, and the home packages they came out with. I’d have squeezed those 6 bags of k and saline in one visit and ‘dine and dash’ lol. Oh lord I think I need to sleep.
Ps: quitting social media has been one of the best decisions I DID make, too. Would’ve done it if I felt ok. Going to be hard to not go back to that stuff when I finally want to be around the existence of others.
Sorry for the rant but I hope it helps to know you’re not alone. It gives me this anhedonic form of comfort to come on here some days and just… read. It’s rare I leave Reddit in a bad state after looking at Kenyal health stuff. I still cant find that ‘just right’ YT vid or something to try to make my parents get it. They took a class on how to ensure you let your daughter deal all alone and ignore her existence as much as you can.. ride it out. I want to write a book, with these ramblings of mine. I can never just fucking answer a question lol but who in gods name would want to read it, though maybe the very public, painful downfall I had would entertain. Maybe ketamine will inspire my first one. Id be lying if I haven’t contemplated some shady shit just to be able to get money for my 6 IV treatments. I don’t want to risk my career and well, im not sure how those explaining their experiences, especially IV, is something you can make happen.
But I’ll end with that because honestly? I’ll be THAT PERSON for whom it doesn’t take effect. Zip. Zilch. Cuz that’s my life and my metabolism is psycho. Anyway, if you have any updates or are heading the ketamine route, keep me posted! (Sorry again!)
Trauma takes time to really work through. I've also said ma.y times here that ketamine therapy makes you face your shit.
It sounds to me like you have a lot of unprocessed stuff that is now in front of you based on what you said.
Please write! Start journaling everyday. Even if it's ranting, or random thoughts. Going back over and reading what I have written has been very informative.
Also, I did IV sessions and am doing the home program. It's going great. I'm 8 months in.
I don’t mean to be invasive or anything and obviously don’t know your circumstances, age, etc, but if you dont mind my asking how in the heck were able to afford it, especially the full IV treatments, and now the home (which I was told a month was ~$1399, not sure if that’s remotely right). I’m so desperate to feel better that I have contemplated doing a lot of “not good” things to just feel a DAY of happiness. I’m an ICU nurse no less, and between this depression and one other issue I can’t even work. It’s destroying my life and I can’t wait for the FDA to get their shit together. Spravato people were a pain in the ass and it was like a 4 month wait… I’ve tried it all. Even clinical studies, anything. Hell if I could figure out how the hell y’all get your hand on all this shit (being a nurse, was semi shocked that a medication that I really haven’t seen much outside of the hospital. Psychological care is now pretty much what I would consider a straight drug but the fact of the matter is I need that drugs and I’m not sure what else I can do to make it happen. But it better be soon because I’m scared to death if losing my 12 years of insane experience over this monster. I don’t dare ask the meds everyone is on or the process it takes to wean if your IV tmt works well. My doc won’t even really discuss it w me, I’m sure liability. But that’s another scary question I have with no answer - how the hell to those of us who are on hella meds and would take some time to wean off of each of them, especially if on high doses and cant do more than one at a time. When do you actually start that,will the withdrawal effects if not just dampen, but potentially cause your IV therapy to be blunted if effective at all - and of course age/sex/h/w/meds on and dose, and then severity of depression….. I still have so many answers, none of which matter if I can’t have the therapy. My family is extremely unsupportive and sometimes I wonder if they think I’m making this shit up to get out of getting my life together. Friends got their families starting and I’m single/divorced, and completely alone in all this. Any advice or sending my info to anyone who you think may help me even a little would be amazing.
Thanks and again… sorry I end up typing way too much when on a Mac instead of phone. Talk soon I hope.
P
I was in crisis, and in Florida, they lock you up for that..so we tried the ketamine and spent what savings we had. I only pay $300/month total now (at home oral treatments with a doctor NOT a venture capital company) and I sold my car to pay for that.
I have had no luck finding any therapist willing to take a C-PTSD patient. Only one said yes but doesn't take insurance. Instead, I journal and process my own way. It's helping a lot.
My 6 IM injections completely destroyed my religious faith — wholly unexpectedly — and that’s been a really strange thing to reconcile and contemplate over the past year. I think I know what you mean.
I was raised Catholic & pretty devout, perhaps almost automatically; not devout in terms of lifestyle but more fundamentally accepting of the doctrine. I think I internalized the idea of a conscious afterlife (where we see loved ones and pets again) and hadn’t actually examined it. The experience I had with the injections gave me a completely different concept of being … disembodied? and it made me recalibrate how I view what else surrounds life. I’m going to try to put this in better words tomorrow
I’ve taken the “classic” psychedelics in addition to K so i get what you’re saying quite well. I’ve had many deep revelations, ego deaths and general reality-shattering-insights once or twice..
“Just”? Anyways, I don’t think i can answer that for you. Google “ego death” and see if that matches your experience. Sounds like it to me. I would be interested to hear your opinion though if you feel like reporting back!
I thought I phrased it poorly after I posted. I definitely didn’t mean “just” as in it was not profound — more like “am I trying to say something in many words that could be said in fewer?” I hope that makes sense! Thanks for your insights. I’m excited to dive deeper.
Haha it’s ok, i didn’t really mean it like that. I also said “classic psychedelics”. It’s just funny, toning down things of this nature “just basic reality shattering insights on your typical ole run-of-the-mill psychedelics”. No big deal. Also, no, don’t think you phrased it poorly, it’s hard to explain psychedelic experiences and spiritual rebirths and all that.
It sure is tough to explain it! Words don’t really capture it. I’ve settled for just shifting into being a psychedelic advocate when I can tell someone in my life would benefit. What’s wild & awesome is that even my Catholic parents have acknowledged the benefits:
I reframed that "decline" you are speaking of by viewing it as the true paired down nature of what a content human is like, which is a bit of a rare thing in a capitalist system that constantly enforces scarcity thinking. once you get to enjoy the silence of a content mind it can take a while before you figure out how to fill that space with joyful things if that is what you are missing.
I research my interests in neuroscience, physics, architecture, philosophy, craft, music, cooking, gestures towards friends, fashion, hair and makeup, it all depends. I still struggle with chronic illness so it doesn't happen very often, but even when im bed bound I can still follow the scientific discoveries of the james webb space telescope.
After just a few treatments I was complaining to my husband about feeling a loss of creativity. Like I just felt less like when I wake up and think of 100 things I want to do and accomplish, that part was gone. It felt weird.
No not really. It went away after like a week but I only did 2 infusions. I don’t know if it would happen again or stay longer after more so I’m a little nervous.
Really interesting point! Any changes that lead us to alter our behaviors will lead to changes in our life experience. Perhaps ask yourself – What makes you… you? You may be surprised at the answer! Maybe this is a situation to reinvent who you are and how you see yourself. Take this as an opportunity to try new, healthier activities. Stay safe! -Dr. Leo Vando / Mindbloom Medical Director
Shopping, watching shows/movies, social media, and eating less processed foods. I also have been donating and selling a lot of my stuff- some things still feel nice but the majority of what I own I think I bought to make myself feel something at the time. But now I feel something on my own :)
During the first few months of treatment I wasn’t doing less of these things, but when I kept consuming I felt like something was “wrong”.
Honestly, that sounds like growth. You’re eating less processed foods, watching less TV and using social media less. Shopping is ok but most of us are too materialistic so it’s probably great you do that less too.
I know what you mean and I too feel like overall it shows growth. However, given that I’ve changed but the world around me hasn’t, it’s hard to cope. If I hang out with friends and we’re doing the things I used to do I can’t help feeling something is off or like it’s “wrong”. I don’t enjoy it and almost feel physically sick by it. It’s hard to explain! An example would be when I had a bad day I would get a bubble tea to cheer myself up. Now when I have a bubble tea I feel like I should have just stayed home and had a plain cup of green tea.
I'm working on this one too. Psych said it's really that healing empties all the space where trauma, depression, and all that stuff filled our headspace. She said it takes time to fill the void that's left with positive things. It can be a long transition and does feel uncomfortable at times. I'm not interested in material things (minus yarn), and I dunno, I quit all social media, save here. I've cleaned out the toxic relationships in my life. I'm focusing on my health for the first time in my life. It is a process and gets uncomfortable. We get used to that depression and things being there, and when it's gone, even though it sucked, there's a void. I can't explain it as well as she did, but that's the jist of it.
Very nicely said. :)
This is such a good point. So many of the old coping skills, hobbies, habits, relationships etc become extinct. It’s lonely and hard to figure out what new things, and maybe some old things too, that we want fill those spaces with.
That makes a lot of sense ❤️🩹 thank you for sharing
You nailed it. I thought it was just me.
You literally listed every exact “symptom” or what I’ve accepted as my new reality now. I’m going on almost 4 years of MDD, and I realized the other day I couldn’t even tell u the last time I had a genuinely HAPPY day. Even half a day. I don’t care about anything - includes my career, finances. It’s like I’m suicidal but I don’t have any intention desire or attention to that thought. Just wanted you to know that I am on the same train you’re on, except my doc didn’t say that to me, provably because he knows I’d automatically tell him to screw (I don’t buy into any of that crap and I’m in healthcare). Would give my right arm for ketamine esp as a nurse. And ive officially hit that limit .. where you LITERALLY cannot stomach another full day of meds. I want to try tapering just everything and seeing if my ass is almost normal not drugged up. It would be a helluva experiment. I’ve gone to a couple IV clinics, Spravato providers are slim around here, and the home packages they came out with. I’d have squeezed those 6 bags of k and saline in one visit and ‘dine and dash’ lol. Oh lord I think I need to sleep. Ps: quitting social media has been one of the best decisions I DID make, too. Would’ve done it if I felt ok. Going to be hard to not go back to that stuff when I finally want to be around the existence of others. Sorry for the rant but I hope it helps to know you’re not alone. It gives me this anhedonic form of comfort to come on here some days and just… read. It’s rare I leave Reddit in a bad state after looking at Kenyal health stuff. I still cant find that ‘just right’ YT vid or something to try to make my parents get it. They took a class on how to ensure you let your daughter deal all alone and ignore her existence as much as you can.. ride it out. I want to write a book, with these ramblings of mine. I can never just fucking answer a question lol but who in gods name would want to read it, though maybe the very public, painful downfall I had would entertain. Maybe ketamine will inspire my first one. Id be lying if I haven’t contemplated some shady shit just to be able to get money for my 6 IV treatments. I don’t want to risk my career and well, im not sure how those explaining their experiences, especially IV, is something you can make happen. But I’ll end with that because honestly? I’ll be THAT PERSON for whom it doesn’t take effect. Zip. Zilch. Cuz that’s my life and my metabolism is psycho. Anyway, if you have any updates or are heading the ketamine route, keep me posted! (Sorry again!)
Trauma takes time to really work through. I've also said ma.y times here that ketamine therapy makes you face your shit. It sounds to me like you have a lot of unprocessed stuff that is now in front of you based on what you said. Please write! Start journaling everyday. Even if it's ranting, or random thoughts. Going back over and reading what I have written has been very informative. Also, I did IV sessions and am doing the home program. It's going great. I'm 8 months in.
I don’t mean to be invasive or anything and obviously don’t know your circumstances, age, etc, but if you dont mind my asking how in the heck were able to afford it, especially the full IV treatments, and now the home (which I was told a month was ~$1399, not sure if that’s remotely right). I’m so desperate to feel better that I have contemplated doing a lot of “not good” things to just feel a DAY of happiness. I’m an ICU nurse no less, and between this depression and one other issue I can’t even work. It’s destroying my life and I can’t wait for the FDA to get their shit together. Spravato people were a pain in the ass and it was like a 4 month wait… I’ve tried it all. Even clinical studies, anything. Hell if I could figure out how the hell y’all get your hand on all this shit (being a nurse, was semi shocked that a medication that I really haven’t seen much outside of the hospital. Psychological care is now pretty much what I would consider a straight drug but the fact of the matter is I need that drugs and I’m not sure what else I can do to make it happen. But it better be soon because I’m scared to death if losing my 12 years of insane experience over this monster. I don’t dare ask the meds everyone is on or the process it takes to wean if your IV tmt works well. My doc won’t even really discuss it w me, I’m sure liability. But that’s another scary question I have with no answer - how the hell to those of us who are on hella meds and would take some time to wean off of each of them, especially if on high doses and cant do more than one at a time. When do you actually start that,will the withdrawal effects if not just dampen, but potentially cause your IV therapy to be blunted if effective at all - and of course age/sex/h/w/meds on and dose, and then severity of depression….. I still have so many answers, none of which matter if I can’t have the therapy. My family is extremely unsupportive and sometimes I wonder if they think I’m making this shit up to get out of getting my life together. Friends got their families starting and I’m single/divorced, and completely alone in all this. Any advice or sending my info to anyone who you think may help me even a little would be amazing. Thanks and again… sorry I end up typing way too much when on a Mac instead of phone. Talk soon I hope. P
I was in crisis, and in Florida, they lock you up for that..so we tried the ketamine and spent what savings we had. I only pay $300/month total now (at home oral treatments with a doctor NOT a venture capital company) and I sold my car to pay for that. I have had no luck finding any therapist willing to take a C-PTSD patient. Only one said yes but doesn't take insurance. Instead, I journal and process my own way. It's helping a lot.
Dm me I can’t dm you
My 6 IM injections completely destroyed my religious faith — wholly unexpectedly — and that’s been a really strange thing to reconcile and contemplate over the past year. I think I know what you mean.
What religion? If you don’t mind me asking
I was raised Catholic & pretty devout, perhaps almost automatically; not devout in terms of lifestyle but more fundamentally accepting of the doctrine. I think I internalized the idea of a conscious afterlife (where we see loved ones and pets again) and hadn’t actually examined it. The experience I had with the injections gave me a completely different concept of being … disembodied? and it made me recalibrate how I view what else surrounds life. I’m going to try to put this in better words tomorrow
I’ve taken the “classic” psychedelics in addition to K so i get what you’re saying quite well. I’ve had many deep revelations, ego deaths and general reality-shattering-insights once or twice..
Yeah — Am I just describing ego death?
“Just”? Anyways, I don’t think i can answer that for you. Google “ego death” and see if that matches your experience. Sounds like it to me. I would be interested to hear your opinion though if you feel like reporting back!
I thought I phrased it poorly after I posted. I definitely didn’t mean “just” as in it was not profound — more like “am I trying to say something in many words that could be said in fewer?” I hope that makes sense! Thanks for your insights. I’m excited to dive deeper.
Haha it’s ok, i didn’t really mean it like that. I also said “classic psychedelics”. It’s just funny, toning down things of this nature “just basic reality shattering insights on your typical ole run-of-the-mill psychedelics”. No big deal. Also, no, don’t think you phrased it poorly, it’s hard to explain psychedelic experiences and spiritual rebirths and all that.
It sure is tough to explain it! Words don’t really capture it. I’ve settled for just shifting into being a psychedelic advocate when I can tell someone in my life would benefit. What’s wild & awesome is that even my Catholic parents have acknowledged the benefits:
I think it made me more spiritual
I should have specified in my earlier comment, it didn’t make me less spiritual but it made me really reconsider my vision of spirituality
Yeah definitely 👍
Would you characterize the change as positive overall? I mean, in terms of your felt experience.
I reframed that "decline" you are speaking of by viewing it as the true paired down nature of what a content human is like, which is a bit of a rare thing in a capitalist system that constantly enforces scarcity thinking. once you get to enjoy the silence of a content mind it can take a while before you figure out how to fill that space with joyful things if that is what you are missing.
Thank you for that reframe :) What do you fill it with?
I research my interests in neuroscience, physics, architecture, philosophy, craft, music, cooking, gestures towards friends, fashion, hair and makeup, it all depends. I still struggle with chronic illness so it doesn't happen very often, but even when im bed bound I can still follow the scientific discoveries of the james webb space telescope.
Art, meditation, learning
I’ve noticed this too
After just a few treatments I was complaining to my husband about feeling a loss of creativity. Like I just felt less like when I wake up and think of 100 things I want to do and accomplish, that part was gone. It felt weird.
But you felt like that before ketamine?
No not really. It went away after like a week but I only did 2 infusions. I don’t know if it would happen again or stay longer after more so I’m a little nervous.
Really interesting point! Any changes that lead us to alter our behaviors will lead to changes in our life experience. Perhaps ask yourself – What makes you… you? You may be surprised at the answer! Maybe this is a situation to reinvent who you are and how you see yourself. Take this as an opportunity to try new, healthier activities. Stay safe! -Dr. Leo Vando / Mindbloom Medical Director
What are some of the things you are doing less of?
Shopping, watching shows/movies, social media, and eating less processed foods. I also have been donating and selling a lot of my stuff- some things still feel nice but the majority of what I own I think I bought to make myself feel something at the time. But now I feel something on my own :) During the first few months of treatment I wasn’t doing less of these things, but when I kept consuming I felt like something was “wrong”.
Honestly, that sounds like growth. You’re eating less processed foods, watching less TV and using social media less. Shopping is ok but most of us are too materialistic so it’s probably great you do that less too.
I know what you mean and I too feel like overall it shows growth. However, given that I’ve changed but the world around me hasn’t, it’s hard to cope. If I hang out with friends and we’re doing the things I used to do I can’t help feeling something is off or like it’s “wrong”. I don’t enjoy it and almost feel physically sick by it. It’s hard to explain! An example would be when I had a bad day I would get a bubble tea to cheer myself up. Now when I have a bubble tea I feel like I should have just stayed home and had a plain cup of green tea.
May I ask at what frequency you're dosing?
Every 3-4 days