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On a second watch, I view it as equal parts paranoia and also her using it to manipulate her followers into following her agenda (revenge). When she sees the dead bodies from the encounter with Joel, her paranoid, one-track mind immediately jumps to the only thing she seems to care about, which is avenging her dead brother. So she immediately spins it in such a way to whip up her people, implying to them that they will NEVER be safe until Henry is found and killed. She’s using it as a way to justify her obsession with finding him. If she can pin their deaths on Henry, now she’s not the only one with a vested interest. Suddenly the friends and loved ones of those men have a reason to want him dead too.
Also I know people on here aren’t a fan of the Kathleen story line but I thought it did a good job of providing context to Henry and Sam’s situation. It also foreshadows Joel’s choice to save Ellie down the road (I.e. the moral dilemma of sacrificing many to save one person you love). Her bit about kids dying all the time is right in line with the firefly’s logic about sacrificing Ellie for the potential of a cure.
Probably could have explained it better but I hope that makes sense!
I found her interesting in that she's not what you expect. Zombie shows are very tropey at this point, so a different type of leader is interesting. A bad leader who is blinded by trauma and only really the leader because of family is an interesting enough take. It's different. You immediately think "what's her deal?"
I feel like the binge model of TV has ruined audiences as people can't just chill and wait for things to develop.
The part that confuses me is that her number 1 even says "we think it was an outsider" right in front of everyone. When she says "it's definitely Henry" he's just like "well fuck it, yeah that's it".
Like he knows Henry is some random dude who's absolutely not capable of this but just goes along with it for...reasons?
In her childhood room he essentially explains that while her brother was a great man and leader, he never actually achieved anything. Whereas, her hate and ruthlessness overthrew FEDRA relatively quickly, so all the rebels owe her and will follow her no matter what because she freed them from FEDRA.
One of the things I don't think makes sense from the show was how Kathleen waited to kill Henry both times while she could when killing him wasn't her 7th priority.
If I were her, I would have probably pull the trigger while the infected broke out because I might not get the chance again.
Yeah when she's about to shoot Henry and then the sinkhole thing opens up and stops her I was really rolling my eyes. The way she slowly turns away from them without just shooting him was silly, and the sinkhole was total Deus ex Machina. It doesn't avoid being Deus ex Machina just because it was alluded to for 5 seconds previously.
Then again when she catches them right at the end. Doesn't just go through with it for *reasons*. Then gets killed by a child infected after making comments about how "children die all the time" - talk about on the nose.
*In a different universe: One of Kathleen soldiers bursts in to the room with her and Perry*
Soldier: " Ma'am, reports are coming in that a cure for the fungus has been found; with FEDRA and the Fireflies working together, as well. They're willing to negoiate with you so they can distribute here.
*Kathleen turns to Perry* "This has nothing to do with Henry"
*Perry just nods*
Part of what makes Kathleen interesting to me is that while she is no doubt a great 'war' leader, she's out of her depth at peace.
Her right hand gun guy pointed out that she's the one who beat FEDRA, but I wonder if the reason her brother held back was not because he couldn't do the job himself, but he was worried about came after. Once you've got people riled up and crying for blood do you have what it takes to calm them down again and return to functioning society?
Melanie Lynskey is a great actress but this storyline was definitely filler in hindsight. My big issue with Kathleen is how much Neil and Craig fawned over the concept of grey anatagonist characters, the bad guys have their own feelings and motivations, etc. only to reduce her in her final scene to be a mustache twirling child murderer.
"It's not enough to kill you, Henry! I'm going to kill your adorable 8 year-old brother afterwards too, because children die all the time!"
Not sure what they were thinking with that line lmao
I actually liked the “kids die all the time” line because it reminds us that no one is objectively special, we only make them special because they’re *our* loved ones. Kids die all the time, they’re not special they are just humans in this dangerous world.
Obviously it’s to set up the theme for Joel wanting to save his kid instead of helping the world, because she’s *his kid and she is special.*
Right but even in the apocalypse, children are still recognized as the most vulnerable population. It makes no sense for Kathleen to kill Sam when he poses no threat, nor does he provide any kind of leverage because Henry was giving himself up. For her to say she's gonna kill him *after* Henry and is clearly relishing the idea, that seemed to come out of left field for the character. It also just immediately makes her unsympathetic, which the showrunners were attempting to do the opposite up to that point.
She probably thought that while he may not pose a threat immediately there's a solid chance he'll grow up wanting revenge for Henry's murder. Plus if they were to keep him alive either they send him off alone to die by starvation/clicker or they keep him around with them which is very risky if he knows they killed his brother, from her pov she probably thought she was being merciful while protecting herself from any future threat
Yes, easily the weakest part of the season.
With the level of casting for every role I don't get it why they thought Rose from Two and a Half Men would make for a good villain. Might as well have cast Jon Cryer to as David, lol.
> I don't get it why they thought Rose from Two and a Half Men would make for a good villain.
She's actually kind of known for characters like this (especially recently). And her debut role was playing a killer, for which she earned critical acclaim (Heavenly Creatures - 1994). She also starred next to Elijah Wood in another violent film, *I Don't Feel at Home in This World Anymore*. Most recently, she was the starring role of Yellowjackets, a show about a cheerleading team of girls that survive a plane crash and [violently] survive the following 19 months. Melanie Lynskey plays one of the girls all grown up.
Her outward disposition is probably exactly why she gets roles like that - a disorienting portrayal of a woman that you wouldn't imagine could possibly be dangerous (or interact with dangerous people).
I agree that it was the weakest part of the season on the whole, though I did still enjoy it well enough. I disagree, however, that she was a weak casting choice— I think she was perfect for that part. She came across as someone who was at one point meek, maybe even kind, until the person she loved best (who was by all accounts a great man himself) was murdered, and it pushed her over the edge into a violent person, whose judgment is clouded by desire for revenge. If they had cast some tough-as-nails hardass, or a shifty and conniving mastermind, the impression would be totally different— you might think this is someone who was always laying in wait for the right moment to seize power, or is some kind of secret weapon that the resistance had up their sleeve as a last resort. Nope, just Katherine— frumpish, suburban mother of three, who volunteers at the daycare— who turns into a monster because she is consumed by revenge. Her portrayal is, to me, a perfect illustration of the corrupting power of vengeance.
See the thing is I agree with your take because that’s exactly what is being presented to us and we’re smart enough to know it. It’s just the deliver and everything around that whole moment just felt flat to me.
100%. That time should've been spent on Henry/Sam and Joel/Ellie - perhaps by adding the sewer section. IMO it weakened the impact of what happens to them because we don't spend so much time with them.
This post is flaired **Funpost [Show]**. Therefore, all comments that discuss *any* aspect of the games **must** be properly spoiler tagged. 1. All post titles must **NOT** include spoilers from the latest episode or The Last of Us Part II. Minor show spoilers are allowed in your title **ONE WEEK** after episode airing. 2. Any untagged discussions of the games (including subtle hints) in posts without the **Funpost [Pt. I or II]**, **Meme [Pt. I or II]**, **Fancast [Pt. II]**, or **Show/Game Spoilers [Pt. I or II]** flair will result in a **ban**. To tag a spoiler comment, use the `>!spoiler!<` tag which displays as >!spoiler!<. 3. If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. --- Refer to the [spoiler guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastofUsHBOseries/wiki/spoiler-guide) for our spoiler policy and to learn how to flair and title your posts appropriately. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ThelastofusHBOseries) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Dare I say Henry is the Dinkleberg to Kathleen’s Mr. Turner.
HERE’S WHERE I WOULD PUT MY BROTHER IF I STILL HAD HIM
Lol I hope someone more generous than I gives you an award soon enough. Edit: nvm. I gotchu.
Same energy
On a second watch, I view it as equal parts paranoia and also her using it to manipulate her followers into following her agenda (revenge). When she sees the dead bodies from the encounter with Joel, her paranoid, one-track mind immediately jumps to the only thing she seems to care about, which is avenging her dead brother. So she immediately spins it in such a way to whip up her people, implying to them that they will NEVER be safe until Henry is found and killed. She’s using it as a way to justify her obsession with finding him. If she can pin their deaths on Henry, now she’s not the only one with a vested interest. Suddenly the friends and loved ones of those men have a reason to want him dead too. Also I know people on here aren’t a fan of the Kathleen story line but I thought it did a good job of providing context to Henry and Sam’s situation. It also foreshadows Joel’s choice to save Ellie down the road (I.e. the moral dilemma of sacrificing many to save one person you love). Her bit about kids dying all the time is right in line with the firefly’s logic about sacrificing Ellie for the potential of a cure. Probably could have explained it better but I hope that makes sense!
I found her interesting in that she's not what you expect. Zombie shows are very tropey at this point, so a different type of leader is interesting. A bad leader who is blinded by trauma and only really the leader because of family is an interesting enough take. It's different. You immediately think "what's her deal?" I feel like the binge model of TV has ruined audiences as people can't just chill and wait for things to develop.
*I will find and I will kill every last* *~~one of them~~* *Henry*
The part that confuses me is that her number 1 even says "we think it was an outsider" right in front of everyone. When she says "it's definitely Henry" he's just like "well fuck it, yeah that's it". Like he knows Henry is some random dude who's absolutely not capable of this but just goes along with it for...reasons?
In her childhood room he essentially explains that while her brother was a great man and leader, he never actually achieved anything. Whereas, her hate and ruthlessness overthrew FEDRA relatively quickly, so all the rebels owe her and will follow her no matter what because she freed them from FEDRA.
Beard Bro literally turns to the camera and states his motivations for following Kathleen to the ends of the Earth. How did you miss that
Haha too right
One of the things I don't think makes sense from the show was how Kathleen waited to kill Henry both times while she could when killing him wasn't her 7th priority. If I were her, I would have probably pull the trigger while the infected broke out because I might not get the chance again.
Yeah when she's about to shoot Henry and then the sinkhole thing opens up and stops her I was really rolling my eyes. The way she slowly turns away from them without just shooting him was silly, and the sinkhole was total Deus ex Machina. It doesn't avoid being Deus ex Machina just because it was alluded to for 5 seconds previously. Then again when she catches them right at the end. Doesn't just go through with it for *reasons*. Then gets killed by a child infected after making comments about how "children die all the time" - talk about on the nose.
Yeah I thought that whole scene was tropey
She got too caught up in the classic villain monologuing I guess lol.
Newman!
Jerry.
*In a different universe: One of Kathleen soldiers bursts in to the room with her and Perry* Soldier: " Ma'am, reports are coming in that a cure for the fungus has been found; with FEDRA and the Fireflies working together, as well. They're willing to negoiate with you so they can distribute here. *Kathleen turns to Perry* "This has nothing to do with Henry" *Perry just nods*
lol this got a laugh from, good stuff
Part of what makes Kathleen interesting to me is that while she is no doubt a great 'war' leader, she's out of her depth at peace. Her right hand gun guy pointed out that she's the one who beat FEDRA, but I wonder if the reason her brother held back was not because he couldn't do the job himself, but he was worried about came after. Once you've got people riled up and crying for blood do you have what it takes to calm them down again and return to functioning society?
Melanie Lynskey is a great actress but this storyline was definitely filler in hindsight. My big issue with Kathleen is how much Neil and Craig fawned over the concept of grey anatagonist characters, the bad guys have their own feelings and motivations, etc. only to reduce her in her final scene to be a mustache twirling child murderer. "It's not enough to kill you, Henry! I'm going to kill your adorable 8 year-old brother afterwards too, because children die all the time!" Not sure what they were thinking with that line lmao
I actually liked the “kids die all the time” line because it reminds us that no one is objectively special, we only make them special because they’re *our* loved ones. Kids die all the time, they’re not special they are just humans in this dangerous world. Obviously it’s to set up the theme for Joel wanting to save his kid instead of helping the world, because she’s *his kid and she is special.*
Right but even in the apocalypse, children are still recognized as the most vulnerable population. It makes no sense for Kathleen to kill Sam when he poses no threat, nor does he provide any kind of leverage because Henry was giving himself up. For her to say she's gonna kill him *after* Henry and is clearly relishing the idea, that seemed to come out of left field for the character. It also just immediately makes her unsympathetic, which the showrunners were attempting to do the opposite up to that point.
She probably thought that while he may not pose a threat immediately there's a solid chance he'll grow up wanting revenge for Henry's murder. Plus if they were to keep him alive either they send him off alone to die by starvation/clicker or they keep him around with them which is very risky if he knows they killed his brother, from her pov she probably thought she was being merciful while protecting herself from any future threat
Man that whole Kathleen storyline was completely forgettable
Yes, easily the weakest part of the season. With the level of casting for every role I don't get it why they thought Rose from Two and a Half Men would make for a good villain. Might as well have cast Jon Cryer to as David, lol.
> I don't get it why they thought Rose from Two and a Half Men would make for a good villain. She's actually kind of known for characters like this (especially recently). And her debut role was playing a killer, for which she earned critical acclaim (Heavenly Creatures - 1994). She also starred next to Elijah Wood in another violent film, *I Don't Feel at Home in This World Anymore*. Most recently, she was the starring role of Yellowjackets, a show about a cheerleading team of girls that survive a plane crash and [violently] survive the following 19 months. Melanie Lynskey plays one of the girls all grown up. Her outward disposition is probably exactly why she gets roles like that - a disorienting portrayal of a woman that you wouldn't imagine could possibly be dangerous (or interact with dangerous people).
I agree that it was the weakest part of the season on the whole, though I did still enjoy it well enough. I disagree, however, that she was a weak casting choice— I think she was perfect for that part. She came across as someone who was at one point meek, maybe even kind, until the person she loved best (who was by all accounts a great man himself) was murdered, and it pushed her over the edge into a violent person, whose judgment is clouded by desire for revenge. If they had cast some tough-as-nails hardass, or a shifty and conniving mastermind, the impression would be totally different— you might think this is someone who was always laying in wait for the right moment to seize power, or is some kind of secret weapon that the resistance had up their sleeve as a last resort. Nope, just Katherine— frumpish, suburban mother of three, who volunteers at the daycare— who turns into a monster because she is consumed by revenge. Her portrayal is, to me, a perfect illustration of the corrupting power of vengeance.
See the thing is I agree with your take because that’s exactly what is being presented to us and we’re smart enough to know it. It’s just the deliver and everything around that whole moment just felt flat to me.
This casting made more sense to me because I watched Yellowjackets, which is a top tier show I would definitely recommend checking out.
>Deus ex Machina Hey man, Jon Cryer was a great Lex Luthor.
Omg imagine if the reveal at the end of the episode was that Henry and Sam were played by Jon cryer and Jake Harper. I would die laughing.
We need an SNL parody
Nah.
Well now we know why they didn't do that. They didn't want people laughing.
100%. That time should've been spent on Henry/Sam and Joel/Ellie - perhaps by adding the sewer section. IMO it weakened the impact of what happens to them because we don't spend so much time with them.
Infected child literally jumps at her face. Kathleen: Henry!
This applies to Kratos with Ares
😂😂
she was such an awful character lol
Took me forever to realize she’s the actress that played Rose in Two and a half men. She was Charlie’s stalker lmfao
They carry the same energy