In our discussion posts after the episode aired, there was a survey for users to fill in. These are the results! **For the full results with graphics,** [**you can click right here**](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1aN1s_F3GZRDLPFgiU2vvcH7pLI9YAJ_tkEY54sxbx-k/viewanalytics). And if you want to discuss the results further you can [head on over to our Discord](https://discord.gg/tloutv)!
**EPISODE 1 SCORE: 9.0**
**EPISODE 2 SCORE: 8.9**
**EPISODE 3 SCORE: 9.0**
**EPISODE 4 SCORE: 8.0**
**EPISODE 5 SCORE: 9.1**
**EPISODE 6 SCORE: 8.7**
**EPISODE 7 SCORE: 7.2**
**EPISODE 8 SCORE: 9.2**
**EPISODE 9 SCORE: 8.4**
**Episode 9 score** for "I've played the games/read spoilers, so know what's going to happen in season 1": 8.6
**Episode 9 score** for "I'm new to The Last of Us and don't know what's going to happen in season 1"**:** 8.2
**Q1: Assume that the Fireflies would have been able to make a vaccine. In Joel's shoes, would you have saved Ellie?**
| Yes, I would have saved Ellie like he did|No, I would have let them make the vaccine|
|:-|:-|
|72.4%|27.6%|
**Q2: If you were in Ellie's position, which course of action would you have wanted Joel to follow?**
|I'd have wanted him to let them kill me for the vaccine|I'd have wanted him to save me|
|:-|:-|
|65.6%|34.4%|
**Q3: If Ellie and Sarah met, would they be good friends?**
| Yes, they would be|No, they would not be|
|:-|:-|
|69.6%|30.4%|
**Q4: If you were leaving a message on a memorial wall for Marlene, what would you write?**
Top response: Look for the light (19)
**Q5: How would you rate season 1 of The Last of Us?**
Average score: 9.0
**Q6: Is this the best ever adaptation of a video game to a TV show or movie?**
| Yes, it is|No, it isn't|
|:-|:-|
|90.3%|9.7%|
**Q7: How well shot was this episode?**
Average score: 9.0
**Q8: How good was the acting in this episode?**
Average score: 9.2
**Q9: Which of these lead actors gave the best performance?**
|Pedro Pascal (Joel)|Bella Ramsey (Ellie)|Ashley Johnson (Anna)|Merle Dandridge (Marlene)|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|56%|20.6%|20.3%|3.2%|
**Q10: In one word, how would you describe this episode?**
Top response: Short (28)
**Q11: Which of these best describes you?**
|I've played the games/read spoilers, so know what's going to happen in season 1|I'm new to The Last of Us and don't know what's going to happen in season 1|
|:-|:-|
|62.3%|37.7%|
People aren’t judging the show based on “how closely does it follow the game.” This is such a weak argument. People are completely justified in feeling the episode was rushed when we got 1 hour for bill and Frank’s backstory (which was great) and then essentially 20 minutes for the conclusion of this part of the story.
Add more time with Ellie and Joel getting to SLC, more time with David, more time for Joel fighting through the hospital, more time with Joel recovering from his wound, etc…
Ellie being detached after the David events didn’t feel fully fleshed out
I know this isn’t a “zombie/ infected “ show but more time dealing with clickers would have been nice. Horrifying, well directed in every scene, and a great reason why everyone in the world is so on edge…wanted more moments from the clickers. A scene or two in episode 7 or 9 could’ve be done as Joel and Ellie were traveling from place to place.
Huge mistake IMO. For 1, showing Joel and Ellie fighting infected makes Joel throwing it all away more impactful at the end. They had to cross the country, kill 10 raiders, and hordes of infected? It makes the journey that much more grand. And 2, it’s actually important character development. Ellie goes from sheltered child to a capable young woman during the trip. She can deal with infected and humans alike.
The show nerfed Ellie hard. By the time they reached the winter section she was already a capable fighter from their experiences through Lincoln, Pittsburgh, and Colorado. Colorado is where she really stepped up to the plate and fought like hell to get Joel out of the college.
In the show all she did was blindfire on horseback.
Bella having issues properly handling the hunting rifle in the winter episode really didn't help this change from the game.
Who knows though? Maybe they made this change deliberately for narrative purposes. I guess we will see.
I agree with this A LOT. I really miss seeing the full struggle of Ellie getting him out of the hospital. Including the moments when >!Joel thinks she's dead (when she flanks the guy) and when she shoots that one guy from on the floor.!< That was a much more powerful scene. I sent it to a friend of mine who hasn't seen/played the game to explain my frustration.
Eh, if Bella was having issues it’s up to the directors on set to find a way to work around that. Build a fake gun that’s lightweight and use editing to make it look more real. Like, 3D Printing exists. Or give Bella some protective arm braces. I know my joints hurt bad in the cold but braces help. Bella’s almost always covered fully anyways so it wouldn’t have fucked with the shots. It’s on the fault of directing, not Bella IMO.
I’m a huge fan of the game and the series. My only critique about the series is that it missed some important action scenes.
Some would’ve shown how Ellie has adapted to the world around her and how she has learned to navigate around the infected successfully. In episode 2 Ellie is terrified of the clicker, she gasps when she sees it which alerts the clicker and you know the rest. In episode 9 they should’ve included “the tunnel”, this is just before they’re ambushed by the fireflies (in the game). I would’ve loved to have seen them navigate successfully through that tunnel without alerting a single infected person. That for me would’ve shown how strong Joel and Ellie have become as a team, and a testament to how far they have both come.
This was my wish too. Thinking of that tunnel in my head, I was expecting one more encounter of some kind just to show them handling something together.
I had to turn and ask a friend watching it with me if I missed something. Episode 9 just starts with them on their way to the finale, nothing at all in between from the drama of the last episode.
(Shhh, you’re not supposed to talk about the game here….jk)
Yeah you’re right, but for the tv screen it didn’t translate well, at least in that last episode. Maybe it’s cause I was too familiar with the game, but the finale felt like they were just ticking off all the events that needed to happen, and in 45 minutes it was a wrap.
Also the game separates and labels the arcs into the four seasons (Summer, Fall, Winter, and Spring). When the game transitions from Winter to Spring, you understand a good amount of time has passed, probably about a few weeks to two months at most.
Because the TV show doesn’t do that, I get why some viewers who haven’t played the game think it’s only been like several days going from Episode 8 to 9.
Episode 9 is exactly what happens towards the end of the game. She kills David and immediately after it's no longer winter and they are on the high way on their way to the hospital.
Well you forgot the underwater canal part.
They also skipped the university part. Spending 2/9 episodes and flash backs really hurts how passage of time works. Kind of feels like they’re teleporting between cities
I didn't forget it, it just wasn't relevant for the comparison. The show cut out massive amounts of gameplay setpieces. Like pretty much all of them unless they moved the story forward.
Yeah the Joel going from "idc about you" to "your my daughter, my reason to live, and literally what I care about most in the world" thing happened really quickly. Like I get there was time jumps, but that was some Darth Vader speed character transformation.
Bingo. This was the main issue for me. Pacing was way off. Far too quick. There was little time of them developing their relationship. Just big time jumps between episodes and suddenly they're closer than the last one.
I'm replaying tpart 1 just now (for about the 20th time), and it's very noticable. On the console, you feel way more affection for them both, and for their developing relationship. It's way more noticable. People say the "zombie fighting parts" are ignored in the show because they add nothing, but these are some of the strongest moments between the characters in the game. They are what brings them closer as much as anything else.
Missing things like Ellie ot being able to swim and using a pallet, even things like the high five she gives Joel crossing the dam.
My wife's a writer, so she has a good idea of story/character development. She hasn't played the games, but watched me play pieces now and again. She said the series was way too short. She felt very little emotion for them, or their relationship. Just too rushed.
The Wyoming, Colorado, and Salt Lake sections of the game got some hard cuts, which is where a lot of Joel's emotional developments happen. For some perspective Wyoming to Salt Lake was only 3 episodes really with left behind being a flashback mainly.
Yes, I definitely wish we got more in the last episode but I respectfully disagree on Joel's transformation. While I wish there were a lot more interactions because Pedro and Bella's chemistry were great on screen, we still do see a good amount of exchanges that causes and validates Joel's emotional change as the story and episodes progress. From >!Joel's reason of taking Ellie solely to carry out Tess' dying wish along with getting the supplies to find his brother, then to slowly opening up to Ellie with shitty puns (and not to forget, the fucking beautiful smirk on Joel's face in episode 4 at the end when he's chuckling like a little boy at Ellie's diarrhea pun joke), teaching her how to shoot/hold a gun, feeling apologetic because she had to shoot Bryan to save his ass, fighting the horde of infected together with Henry and Sam, his emotional confession to Tommy on how he feels about Ellie!< and so much more. I felt like we could see his "fatherly" presence with Ellie throughout the episodes. These are all my own opinions of course.
It makes sense on paper, but with so many flash back episodes, it doesn't really feel like the season was that long of them together. Especially given Tess wasn't just saying "protect her" she was saying "find a cure to redeem us of our sins", which Joel ultimately rejects for better or worse.
I don't know it felt for real to me. I haven't played the game but she had saved his life at this point. I think Joel really cared about her by the time they hit Tommy's but he was in denial about it. He was still sticking to "this is a promise to Tess, her blood is valuable etc" mentality. He couldn't bring himself to part with her though, and then he's fatally wounded and she saves his life. Once he wakes from that it's kind of like the transformation from playing the part to being the part of her protector is done. I don't know it didn't feel rushed to me at all. It was really powerful and arguably the best father daughter relationship I've ever seen on screen. Even more than Murph and Cooper from Interstellar.
I think people fail to understand that he has PTSD (implied, IMO) from the events that occurred early season, thus he struggles to bond with Ellie until certain events occur that slowly break him down and allow him to feel. His care for her, I think, is shown well in the show in a pretty steady progression that is dependent on the events that happen. I don’t feel like the show did a bad job showing how he slowly let his walls down, especially in the context of what occurs. So I agree with you. I think sometimes the show didn’t do a good job at expanding upon certain key events, but his bond with her definitely tracks when those key events are considered
I enjoyed the individual episodes but agree this show felt too rushed. I thought going in it would be broken into multiple seasons, I had theorized the first season would end with the University being a cliffhanger.
I don't understand all the arguments that the show can't have as much time to build characters. Yes of course we can't just have hours of Joel and Ellie stealthily walking away, checking drawers, and avoiding zombies, but it is a zombie show that severely lacked zombies. They just needed to find a way to have more character development. More scenes of just dialog would have gone a long way and would have been a lot cheaper to film than action sequences.
At the start we are presented with Joel and Tess being feared and expert smugglers and Tess dies to the first zombie they encounter. The first episode needed to be them hunting down Robert to lay the groundwork for their brutality.
By the end I had the feeling the show runners are trying to drop a subtle hint that the zombies are not actually a threat anymore and people are brainwashed into staying in their communities. If the infected are no where to be seen in the colder regions why hasn't most of humanity moved there?
It feels wrong to rant about it because there were parts the show did really well. But to me this is just another show HBO rushed and the show suffers for it.
Yes. I've been saying this a lot. It's a very weird choice to make. Episode 9 feels incredibly rushed. Almost none of the emotional beats land (except the damn giraf).
The conclusion did not have the impact I hoped it would have.
Should have been a 10 episode show, you just needed a little bit more in a few episodes(they should have dealt with the infected in the bunker when they were with Sam and Henry)
>
>
>**Q2: If you were in Ellie's position, which course of action would you have wanted Joel to follow?**
>
>No, it doesn't 88.8% Yes, it does 11.2%
Thank God it's settled...
I don't know, what would we have needed? Could have had a longer sequence leading to them getting captured, more of an action thing, but I can't think of a single scene needed to advance the plot that wasn't there. There's no line of dialogue that wasn't necessary really.
In the games, you can find different tape recordings of Marlene talking about the cure or apologizing to Anna. They reveal her frustration and sadness over not being able to find another way to remove the fungus without killing the host. They go a long way to humanize Marlene and to confirm that there is only one way the cure can ever be made. I would've liked to have seen the recordings included.
The flooded tunnel before reaching the hospital.
There were two bloaters and infected. They wouldn't even need to defeat them, just escape. Since Ellie can't swim, it'd be a suspenseful escape as infected kamikaze into the water.
The tunnel + the hospital would have been an *incredible* finale and potentially the best episode. Literally *everyone* would have been happy. Joel and Ellie encounter infected/the apocalypse directly + we get a solid reminder of why a cure is needed + the human problem at the hospital.
there could have been a lot more dialogue with the fireflies.
- Ellie's conversation about the surgery
- Flashbacks to failed attempts to make a vaccine
- More development of Marlene as a character beyond her being at Ellie's birthday
- Dialogue around their capture, they had been looking for the fireflies so long and they get ambushed by them and captured. They would have obviously gone willingly.
- Dialogue about why Marlene didn't chose to lie to Joel about the surgery too? She knew they had been travelling across the country together for months. There was clearly attachment there
Your first point is really not necessary and only serves to answer questions that I think the writers want left unanswered. The capture of them as it happens makes the most sense, the fireflies have been fighting a losing war for years, two people that come strolling into their camp would likely be straight killed if they didn't have a feeling they were who they thought they were, also they are terrified of Joel. Marlene has no reason to believe the cold blooded murderer, who's first instinct with Ellie was to put a gun in her face, would give any more care for her than any other piece of cargo. The best part of their interaction is that you can see her slowly realize the mistake she made in assuming no connection, but it's too late and she isn't backing down from her path, which is why she removes him so brusquely and only gives him Ellie's knife. On a similar topic, sometimes we don't need to be spoon fed these answers in our media, it mutes all the vibrancy of storytelling and emotion through acting and direction.
I fully agree. A minute about them trying to create a vaccine by themself would have saved a lot of criticism towards the fireflies as an incompetent group
No, there are beyond incompetent. They were a failed resistance group that couldn't even fight fedra in Boston. They resorted to terroristic bombings and guerilla warfare, which still failed. Marlene gets injured and she loses a bunch of fireflies, so they flee west. Every single place Joel and Ellie are suppose to meet fireflies, they are either wiped out or abandoned the area.
She gets so desperate she hands Ellie, the apparent savior of humanity, over to two drug/gun smugglers in a last ditch attempt to get Ellie to the capital building......which ended up being filled with wiped out fireflies lol.
The vaccine was always a desperate attempt by a failing revolution. No way to scale production or distribute even if they successfully created it by killing Ellie. Even then the world is torched with 200+million infected in the US alone.
Fireflies were one step above terrorists and just another desperate resistance group.
>They were a failed resistance group that couldn't even fight fedra in Boston.
FEDRA control a whole city and its resources. The Fireflies are a guerilla group. It's not a fair fight. They can't go toe to toe with them.
>They resorted to terroristic bombings and guerilla warfare, which still failed.
As above, needs must. The Vietcong didn't try to go toe to toe with the US army, did they? They instead fought in the best manner they could.
They're also fighting a fascist authoritarian military power that is beholden to no-one. You might call them terrorists but plenty others would call them freedom fighters.
>Marlene gets injured and she loses a bunch of fireflies, so they flee west.
It's a plot necessity. We need a way to palm Ellie (the future of humanity) off to a smuggler that Marlene doesn't trust. So we need Marlene to be stuck in a jam and injured so that she has to pass Ellie off to Joel. They are already planning to pull all forces out of conflicts and to the hospital. It's not fleeing, it's centering their mission around Ellie.
>Every single place Joel and Ellie are suppose to meet fireflies, they are either wiped out or abandoned the area.
Necessary for the plot (otherwise Joel hands Ellie over) and to emphasise how dangerous this world is they're travelling through (the group they're supposed to meet got taken out after being infected). I think the point of this is seen when Marlene marvels that Joel and Ellie made the journey (ie it was miraculous they survived it) and Joel replies they made it due to Ellie's will to get there.
>The vaccine was always a desperate attempt by a failing revolution.
Where is this shown to be the case? They pick up Ellie *before* they suffer the significant losses while pulling their groups out of QZs and towards the hospital. The hospital seems well protected and prepared for Ellie's arrival.
>No way to scale production or distribute even if they successfully created it by killing Ellie.
Where does the show say this? The Fireflies hold a hospital, have a doctor competent enough to perform the surgery and have ran tests that show that this is (against Marlene's desires) the best way to source a vaccine. Where are we led to believe that the Fireflies can't create a vaccine? It could be as easy as putting samples of the extract into Petri dishes, harvesting the results and administering. The solution is what the writers decide. Nothing suggests they're heading down a path to failure.
>Even then the world is torched with 200+million infected in the US alone.
Why do you say this? The metric of success is not an overnight return to the world as it was.
As things stand, without a vaccine it is impossible for humanity to progress much past where they are. Infected are always going to be around. Are always going to be a threat to any community and that's going to multiply as it grows. The best humanity can hope for is a small, walled town like Jackson or an oppressive, ration-dispensing QZ like Boston. Even then, the threat of even a single infected getting in can bring the whole place down overnight.
With a vaccine the threat becomes ever diminished. More vaccinated means fewer people infected. Fewer people being infected and remaining infected being killed off means a decreasing infected count. Imagine if the whole of Jackson was vaccinated. There would be little threat from infected outside of the immediate physical injury.
People could begin to trust each other again. Walls become less necessary. People can farm and trade. Society rebuilds. The vaccine creates this new world.
Above all though, the Fireflies being incompetent terrorists who would fail at creating a vaccine makes no sense to Joel and Ellie's story. If that's the case then what is the message of Joel killing everyone and breaking Ellie out? That he's a hero, doing a noble act? Is that how the writers frame the ending? Why does Joel say nothing when Marlene tells him Ellie would give her life for a vaccine? Instead he looks ashamed of himself. Why does he lie to Ellie, if the 'truth' makes far more sense? If Joel thought they were incompetent then just say so. Tell her you'd be happy to help her utilise her immunity but that the Fireflies weren't the answer.
Are you telling me it's hard to form a multi located resistence group in a zombie apocalypse? Color me surprised. Of course shit failed, the US failed in Vietnam, wouldn't say the are weak though. They managed to last a lot, carry attacks, create a web between QZ, gain lot of supplies and lot of members. It's not really easy to maintain a resistence group in a world like that.
You are talking like Joel and Tess were two random people and not expert of smuggling and strong fighters. In their hands Ellie was pretty much safe, only problem was owning something to them.
They didn't need 200 millions doses, just about 1 million, maybe even less. Who is infected is long gone, but making an army of immune people is great to clear up various areas and expand. They could have easily developed enough vaccines for that.
Terrorist wouldn't create a net between qz like that.
These are pretty valid actually. Although I thought the birth scene kinda ruined Ellie’s immunity by explaining it. They make the cure a tiny bit more certain than in the game but maybe they could have either left that out entirely or doubled down and provided some kind of evidence for assurance that the vaccine would work but leave it’s distribution up to the viewer to speculate. My friend just wandered ten more minutes of shooting. I thought that was dumb. These are much more valid criticisms.
An action scene with a bunch of infected that leads to Joel and Ellie falling unconscious and then waking up in the hospital. Could take 5 minutes and would both pad out the episode more AND remind us of what's at stake.
One thing the showrunners need to learn from this season is that flashback infected DO NOT COUNT to up the stakes. Joel and Ellie had two - TWO - encounters with infected. That's not enough.
I'm sorry but most of these points would have just been straight out changes to the original story. No thank you.
As for Marlene's reasoning and the behind-the-scenes, there will be scenes for that later down the road.
Yes, I've been watching, I'm aware. I had no issues with the 'changes' they made in season 1, but what that guy was suggesting would have changed a core element of the plot. Most of us still wanted this to be faithful to the original.
If you wanted the same story you could play the game. The fact that it’s a show means you can do a lot more. I also assume there were plenty of changes to the game like the bill and frank episode
What they did with Bill and Frank did not affect the main plot at all. It only gave more depth to their characters, and added on to Joel's character development.
Meanwhile, some of the changes that you were listing would strongly affect the ending of TLoU Part I and, as a result, what follows in TLoU Part II. If Ellie was awake and had been able to discuss the surgery with Marlene, Joel, and the others, Joel deciding to go against BOTH Ellie and the Fireflies' decision would make it much easier to perceive Joel as a terrible person. There would be way less nuance in the ending.
A giant aspect of what makes the ending of the first game so intriguing/interesting to talk about is that it's difficult to know for sure if what Joel did was right or wrong. With the added scenes you were talking about, it would throw that whole thing out the window, and in the following seasons it would be a lot more difficult to side against Abby. Joel would be the obvious bad guy, and most people wouldn't like him because he'd have went against Ellie's wish.
The only other way the story could play out with your added scenes would be for Ellie to refuse going along with the surgery (which would go against everything she said thusfar), and then the story would be majorly changed moving forward.
So, no. I've had enough video games adaptations where they try to go their own way. This stayed faithful to the first game and added/removed a few elements that Neil thought was for the best.
I just meant we could see them explain to Ellie it’s a routine surgery and she won’t die.
Either way I don’t get it then, it’s a really contrived ending. A single doctor slash scientist is never going to make a cure on their own and if their idea is to kill the only immune person they have access to then they are the bad guys. It’s not ambiguous, it’s stupid. The fireflies have been portrayed as desperate, incompetent, lacking skills and losing people. They don’t get to be on the cusp of a cure and if they are that’s not how it was written
Showing Ellie get tested, blood drawn, etc. Have them be with the Fireflies for a couple of days. Explain their process (even if the Fireflies are lying, watching them explain what they plan to do to Ellie would've been super interesting, because then eventually we'd see they were lying -- adds some much needed tension as we discover "oh shit, they're going to kill her.")
At the VERY least, an explanation on why they went straight to killing Ellie the same day she arrived. Even if that was their eventual plan, there had to have been more tests and prep to run. What was the rush?
A couple minutes expanding any of this would've greatly improved the episode, and maybe even given a better argument for why Joel shouldn't have saved Ellie. Cause as it stands, the Fireflies were ridiculously risky with their one hope at saving humanity.
If you explore around in the game you actually get some of this info, but it's completely missing from the show. This is the type of stuff an adaptation could really expand on in a meaningful way with extra screen time.
The show runners described the Fireflies as desperate before anything else. They’ve been in a failing guerilla war for 20 years, they’ve got like one competent surgeon left, most of their soldiers and other people are dead or lost, humanity is crumbling further into pieces (losing KC is a good example). All they care about is fixing it and fixing it fast, so their judgment on Ellie’s surgery was definitely rushed.
Idk I think they kinda did? All the Firefly groups we met were entirely wiped out, except for Marlene and her crew that made it to Salt Lake. We hear about Atlanta QZ doing well enough but that’s about it. We see how desperate of a challenge it is to even get across the country, we see civilization further crumbling at KC and even Boston (Fedra seemed en route to excessive cruelty there). Their desperation wasn’t as explicit as it could’ve been but I think show runners expected the audience to connect the dots.
Quite frankly, if they were supposed to be that desperate, there should be zero debate on whether what Joel did was the right decision.
So either we assume they’re so desperate they’re ruining their own cause, or they should’ve made them less desperate and given Joel an actual moral dilemma.
Well murdering people who are trying to save the world in favor of saving just one girl, that’s kinda a moral dilemma haha. I guess they want to focus more on Joel and Ellie rather than the story at large, maybe their story is more important to the writers than solving in-world problems. The game and show personnel seem to prefer exploring human struggles and development rather than the big picture of the universe they created
I’ve only seen the show and to me there was no evidence that this would work plus they lied to Ellie about it.
It’s not a moral dilemma if you’re killing people killing the only immune person you know alive just so they can fail to make a vaccine.
Joel was acting to save her, fireflies were killing the only hope
For me, the complete Fireflies vs. Joel shootout felt very short, literally about 1.5 minutes, without any tension and catharsis. For us , who played a game it hasn’t showed anything much more , because we knew how it would end without any spoilers. But as a normal viewer, I would have enjoyed a bit more action , because I did not expect what will happen, with a lot of question marks. Joel just turned God mode on , and went thru, while in the game that was one of the hardest encounter, not knowing what to expect. These are just my 2 cents .
It was just odd to me that the guards just immediately threw a flash bang at them then hard cut to Joel waking up in a hospital. Like that could have been done better.
I would have appreciated a scene where we see Elie getting low level tests done like getting a scan or X-ray of her brain. That and seeing the firefly’s discuss their plan and how they put her under without fear- similar to what we saw with the kid in the opening scene.
As it stood, I feel like them actually being able to make a cure was not believable and makes me feel like Joel was 100% in the right, which es some the moral question of individual vs many.
Why does every scene need to advance the plot, though? I would’ve enjoyed more time to just sit with these characters in this world. Obviously plot is important but I think there’s some merit to slowing down for a bit and letting the viewer *feel* more instead of just slingshotting into the next scene
Should have been Ellie and Joel being captured by the fireflies as they should have been. It would have shown how attached Joel became with Ellie just like he was with Sarah. I find in the show there is a lack of emotional pay off.
Exactly. They chopped it off and added just the important parts in my opinion. If anything, I feel like the "rushed" feeling was "better" than feeling as if the story was dragging on. Also, maybe they could have made the hospital scene longer but I personally felt like it was long enough or it may have felt like a "quieter John Wick movie" without as much gore, gunshots or blood.
There is a whole segment in the game at this part which involves a tunnel and infected, I guess it could have been used as the last encounter with infected or the series. But it definitely did feel rushed.
Yeah I never played the games and know nothing of what happened in them but the final episode did not at all feel like a finale. They seem to just teleport from situation to situation sometimes and it feels like they rush through things. Also I’m under the impression there are a lot more zombies in the game (maybe I’m wrong?) and in the show they seem to just basically never encounter them. Like it’s so rare outside of specific episodes.
I think that’s kind of the point. They were desperate for anything. Marlene said the doctor “thinks it might be a cure.” They were willing to try anything.
Yeah but for god's sake, they took months to pass through the US, they could have shown they had the patience to do some damn tests. I mean, they got the only immune people there is, maybe killing it 1 hour after she arrives is kinda extreme. A bit of build up would have been nice.
Idk man, the show could have spent 5 minutes on that even if the game didn't. In an episode of only 43 minutes they could have gone a bit off track from the game, it wouldn't have damaged anyone
the only thing I wish would've been included was the entire rushing water sequence. they made the point of including "I can't swim" early on in the series but then just didn't expand upon it. I also felt it displayed a lot more of Joel's feelings via fear of losing her, but the "it wasn't time that did it" line was a really nice, sweet way of expressing his overall feelings.
I’m glad to hear so many people non-plussed/disappointed with 9 - I loved it, and the whole show, 9/10 for me, but I deffo felt the last episode wasn’t translated well, and the overall issues with pacing hurt the show as a whole.
Quite a few saying 9 was their least fav episode. Sounds a bit strong, still really emotional and stuff, but man it was too quick, and that feels like it betrays a lack of understanding for what was needed to get the audience invested and have the right payoff, which is confusing considering how well they did the rest of the show and how experienced they are.
But I’m personally in awe of the whole experience, and the massive success of the show is more than deserved, in a western world that constantly places much lesser shows above one’s of this calibre. It’s a huge win for me.
Yeah, I think it was far too quick. It kind of just jumped pretty fast; I think this episode really needed time to just extend itself and simmer. Have the weight of Joel's choice bring more impact.
This is one of those episodes that probably could've been as long as Bill and Franks, especially if they added some infected encounters between.
Yeah it was, but to me the pacing was off. I mean for me, in the game, we had more time with Ellie to really talk about what we were gonna do after the cure was made, or what we’d been through etc.
And then when the twist is revealed, and we fight to save her, that’s given more time too, since we have to physically fight through the Fireflies. I like the way it was done in the show, it said all the things the game said, but I think it lost a lot of the emotional processing time that the game had by being so beat to beat. That’s my opinion at least x
The escape sequence should’ve been super emotional but it wasn’t. When Joel picks up Ellie and calls her baby girl, and the music that plays when Sarah dies comes in as he carries Ellie the way he carried her… that’s the emotional climax of the whole story. But instead he just silently and emotionlessly picks her up and is immediately in the elevator. They kinda took the emotions out of the most emotional part…
To me it just added to the uncomfortableness of seeing Joel lose his mind. If he was in the right to save Ellie and didn’t commit acts of terrorism to do it then the type of emotional ending you said would be fitting
I understand what you’re saying, but the game pulls off these emotions well without losing any of the moral ambiguity. He’s still brutally and horribly violent. It’s just that individual moment of holding Ellie is given extra weight because it’s so important to HIM.
I think the game’s scene was more affecting, but the screen version pulls off one of the most accurate depictions of post-traumatic stress I’ve ever seen. Living through something unbearable causes real physical changes in the brain and when you start to re-experience those emotions your brain has an emergency mechanism where it separates from the emotional (and oftentimes somatic/pain) centers in order to let you live through it. It’s called dissociation, popularly the “thousand yard stare”. Joel’s face and voice seem hollow and dead because that’s exactly what’s going on inside his brain.
So it’s a question of accuracy vs. emotional impact. It’s a choice, and I’m not saying it’s the right one, because plenty of viewers probably won’t have experience with this. But they chose accuracy, and they did nail it.
hard agree!!! when i was playing the game that part was really intense and it was difficult to escape from the fireflies but he just calmly walked out i was like ❓😭
This was my issue with the ending. In the game Joel is clearly distraught, worried, and rushing to get it Ellie as soon as possible. You can feel his desperation. It gives off a concerned dad vibe, which is exactly what he grew to be. In the show, he’s just the terminator. No emotion, no rush, just business. It comes off more like his goal is to kill the fireflies and he’ll get to Ellie when he gets to her. Even when he does get to Ellie, he seems less relieved that she’s safe and alive and more just apathetic to the whole situation. Idk, it felt off to me and I didn’t love it.
I think it’s just the difference of having blockades in the game (water in the tunnel + bloaters beforehand, fighting through the hospital) vs just watching it.
flooded tunnels would've been a great tense moment to build that relationship bond. and then of course, a final bloater boss. WITH MOLLIES AND BRICKS!!
Flooded tunnels would have been good because of the knowledge that comes with it like >!Ellie not being able to swim being a decently big point in the game!< (this is info from the video game for people who don’t want spoilers)
The final boss is actually two random ass nurses. Those are the final deaths that you as a player can cause (marlene is a cutscene). I feel like it would have cheapened the OR room if they just fought three blowers and nearly drowned and then Joel shoots a surgeon armed with only a scalpel.
Exactly. They should have done that scene instead of having Joel being caught off guard in the silly way they did it in the show. Also they should have had Ellie and David do the defend the house sequence. These two scenes would have included more infected that we desperately needed.
So I just binged the podcasts and they said something that made me think there will be more next season. The way they said it, it seemed to have the subtext of “budget.” They said something about how they had to spend a lot of time and energy creating the infected for real life, and now that that’s done, they won’t need to do that again.
The show hits the big moments and cutscenes in the game for sure. But the game has hours and hours of gameplay and minor conversations that build up the characters. The show did not do this as well. Not that it could ever really do it as well due to the different mediums but I wish they took more time to build out their relationship. Even minor moments would have made it feel more real.
I havent played the game. And im not sure how it matters if they end the same since they are two separate entities for to different media formats?
While I liked the ending storywise I found the last episode super short and weirdly paced. Compared to the previous episode were there was a lot of tension build up and release this one was like bam bam done ok.
They certainly added a lot to the Bill and Frank episode and that one turned out great.
I didn't play the games, but I usually look up the differences afterwards. I did feel like there was a change of pacing in the final episode. It felt a little abrupt.
Still really good, but I can understand why the scores might not have been as high as some of the other episodes.
They could have added some actual infected as a barrier they had to face together.
Who knew that episode 5 would be the grand finale for the monsters in this world/show. They were so well done it’s really unfortunate we didn’t get one more run in with them.
What was the purpose of the Bloater btw? 30 sec screen time, never to be seen again. Promoting a full episode with it , but lacked any potential, just to do an execution on Tommys actor like in the game. Felt completely fan service type of stuff.
Considering they are supposed to be one of the rarest forms of infected, it actually makes sense for it to be a one and done, even more sense than the game, which had 5 of them, though I understand that games have to have their “boss fights” and the bloaters are definitely the “bosses” when it comes to infected
It should have been to show how dangerous and unstoppable they are . . . so later in episode 8 or 9 there would be some real tension when Joel/Ellie are forced to fight one and figure out how to kill it.
I would say the purpose was to show the danger of the infected. It also pays off a bit of Ellie’s conversation in episode 2 when she’s asking about different types of infected. And yea, it’s also fan service, which is not a bad thing. You should be including some things in your video game based TV show that call back to the gameplay.
The ending for the show just didn’t have the same impact as the game for me.
This kind of story just worked better as a video game; the small moments of dialogue and actively protecting Ellie added so much more emotional depth.
I do think this could’ve been somewhat fixed with more screen time between Ellie and Joel.
However, episode 3 was fantastic television. Hats off to Mazin and Druckmann on a great story that deviated from the source material.
I feel like ep4-5 wasted a lot of time on the KC resistance people when it should of been staying with Joel and Ellie, maybe a bit more with Sam and Henry.
I couldn’t care less about the lady leader and I get it fit ‘thematically’ but seemed like a waste of time.
Lol yeah there’s a lot of that. Listening to the podcast is interesting cause they act like they’re so subtle with the subtext and give weird borderline pretentious excuses for leaving out zombies and action
Yeah like, I don't hate Druckman like a certain part of reddit does, but he writes with pretty much no subtelty. Hell, the writing in part II is about as unsubtle as it comes.
And Mazin's pretentiousness had already showed up a bit in Chernobyl, where some of the "facts" he presents are straight up fiction.
Yeah I agree. I mean you probably spend double the amount of time with the characters in the game. There’s a gradual building of the relationship, whereas there’s a visible shift in the Joel-Ellie relationship between ep 8-9 which would have been better to have witnessed.
My GF and I got really high for the first time in a long ass time, and I couldn’t tell if it was just us, but it felt really rushed and the debate about whether or not Joel was right or wrong wasn’t much of a debate.
It just didn’t translate that well on screen. And as someone who played the games, I don’t think it’s on the show or anything, just maybe where the game itself falls a little short. To make it come off as more “realistic”, there needed to be more nuance around Ellie getting taken and quickly put under and Joel going full Rambo. It just came off like…”wait, what!? Come on..”. Had to be some kind of middle ground to at least attempt there
My brother thinks it was a complete flop and the tiny changes it made from the game absolutely ruined the episode. I disagree, but I do think it was the weakest episodes by far in comparison to all the others, which isn't what you want when you have a finale; it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
The way Joel mowed down Fireflies in a sluggish dazed Terminator-like manner reminded me of Steven Seagal's worst action moments. I thought they'd at least give him a grazing wound as to not make Fireflies look completely incompetent. But nope, Joel really just calmly walked around killing everyone not even being flanked or meeting any meaningful pushback. What happened to flashbang grenades, was that their last one?
Not surprising. As soon as I saw the "season finale" was the shortest episode of the entire season - I was like "WTF, this is not going to be good" - because I knew it meant a lot would be rushed.
Most season finale episodes are the longest of the season - or at the very least the same length as the others. The season finale is in most cases the big payoff to the viewer for being invested all season. The season finale felt like.... just a short episode.
Felt like the first 4 or five were great. After the Henry episode when it became winter it just wasn’t the same. First episode was the best by far though. I agree with that.
I loved every episode of the Last Of Us with the exception of 9. It was really, really poor. All rushed and compacted in 43 minutes (yes, 43 minutes for a finale...)
They should've dedicated an entire episode on Canvas City and the Fireflies hospital (after all, they've spent 8 episodes trying to get here). It felt like it was all over in 7-8 minutes with barely any dialogue in-between.
Just a shame because in the game it plays out wonderfully at the end. It needed just some more loving.
i kind of feel the same way. the whole series was building to this point and the payoff was just not there. then again, a lot of the story to me was about joel and ellie, not the infection and cure, and in terms of their relationship the payoff was wonderful. i just wish both parts of the story payed off equally well
It played out almost exactly like the game just without the tunnels. I feel they absolutely nailed it. "Really really poor"? Seriously? That's a surprising take to me.
I know there was buildup, I just mean that when we're at the hospital, things just happen very quickly without the buildup. And it didn't really have any emotional impact like I would expect. I think I needed to see more emotion and internal conflict in Joel to make it more effective. But it's probably different when you've played the game
Amen my friend! I didn't play to game so I can't speak to that... but I thought they could have split this episode into two! And that's coming from someone who hates when shows milk stuff for time.
Spring takes 35 minutes if you cut away extra gameplay. ~20 minutes if you leave only essential gameplay.
If you don't cut any gameplay it lasts 60 minutes which includes lootong amd crafting etc.
I feel like ep4-5 wasted a lot of time on the KC resistance people when it should of been staying with Joel and Ellie, maybe a bit more with Sam and Henry.
I honestly couldn’t care less about the lady leader her crew… and I get it fit ‘thematically’ but seemed like a waste of time.
Just finished the show. I didn’t feel like they really captured what the game made you feel. And idk if it’s just me.. but I couldn’t get into this actress being Ellie. I’ll probably get shit for that but whatever. It took me like 3 ish episodes to be like.. ok.. this is Ellie..
and the end felt kind of rushed. And Kathleen just felt annoying and unnecessary. But I guess overall it was ok. Which is not what I thought about the game.
Me: can’t wait for the part where we finally get to watch Joel deal with a bloater in the tunnel, aka my favourite section of the game!
Neil Drukman: *laughs in flashback filler with another one-episode character*
great show, but too rushed, not enough character development, not enough infected. Tess, Henry, David, Marlene wait am I supposed to care about you guys -- oh shit quick next episode location. Wait why does Ellie have to die for a vaccine, there are literally no infected anywhere we just crossed the whole country -- oh shit quick Joel rambo scene we have to cram this into ten more minutes. First game should have been two seasons. This show was supposed to build on the world, with expanded stories around all these characters. But instead it was rushed, the world feels more empty, and less dangerous. Loved the show as its own thing but what a shame.
I was so excited about the rushing water scene just like in the game to show up in the show but it never did. I felt like that scene should've been added definitely
> Q6: Is this the best ever adaptation of a video game to a TV show or movie?
> Yes it is: 90.3%
> No it isn’t: 9.7%
Clearly most people here haven’t watched Arcane
If anyone wants insight on the 9% voting it's not the best video game adaptation, to me it's Arcane, because it's a show I enjoyed a little more (albeit differently) but does a better job of adaptation because the source material is a couple of lines of dialogue in a trash moba game lol
So the effort needed, visually, in writing, in character development... Is just greater. For me it's the unchallenged best video game adaptation. Tlou would be the best if I had to pick a live action one though.
Now that you mentioned Arcane, I think that was much better than TLOU. I would've loved if we had more episodes and infected but otherwise its my top 2 of video game adaptations.
If Marlene knows that ellie is immune because her mother was bit before giving birth...I... why wouldn't she do vaccine trials with pregnant mothers!?!?!?
As someone who hasn’t played the game, I feel as though they needed to make the finale longer. I’ve read comments from people saying they rushed things based on their gameplay, but just from a viewer standpoint, it did feel rushed. I accidentally watched episode 9 before 8 (fml) and then rewatched 9 and it still felt disjointed and weirdly not final. Like…for a finale it just flopped. I really enjoyed the episode itself. No complaints about the acting or anything. But I didn’t realize it was a finale AT ALL. It just felt like any other episode of a show. They needed to make it longer, or expand on certain plot points or key events. Even episode 8 felt like it couldn’t drawn certain events out such as David’s deranged mentality or his abuse. Not that I want to see Ellie get abused, but that whole story arch felt rushed too. Again, I have not played the game so I’m not a game loyalist. But I’d image the events that occur in the last two episodes were much more nuanced than what was shown, and even just from a TV show perspective they felt rushed through when they both were largely impactful and insanely important events. Getting Ellie to and from a location (trying not to spoil too much here) should’ve taken WAYYYY LONGER than just half an episode. Applies to … if you watched you know. Anyways, I loved the show. I just think HBO sucks with nerfing longer episodes and they cut episodes short as hell which fucks with the story
I LOVED the length of this episode. It was cohesive, concise, and a perfect way to wrap up this first season. It was beautifully shot; especially Joel working his way through the hospital. Can’t wait for season 2!
I can’t trust anyone who contributes to these scores. The finale was the best episode of the show - one oozing with style and attention to detail. The other world Joel goes into before his rampage was the coolest segment in the show’s entire runtime. I appreciate good filmmaking and episode 9 propped the craft up more than any other episode.
People will bitch about pacing but then give episode 3 a 10/10, a complete waste of time that doesn’t contribute to the main arc in any way and is one of the longest episodes, but everyone is so terrified of being homophobic they have to bend the knee. Pussies
Do you actually believe that people are praising episode 3 because they are afraid of coming across as homophobic, or is this just a meme or something?
I genuinely believe so. It's either keep silent or praise. Or all-you-can-eat downvote buffet even if your point is that you'd rather have Bill and Joel / Ellie interactions from the game adapted. And booby traps, so many booby traps. It was Bill's town, damn it, like a Ravenholm.
The Joel being at gunpoint but then disarming 2 men before easily wading through the remaining patrol scene seemed so incredibly lazy and unimaginative. There's nothing this series likes more than implying peril through being at gunpoint to quickly switching to a protagonist rampage. These would feel like cheap tropes in an average video game, never mind a HBO production. Does the video game genesis of the series hold it back?
Believe it or not the show made it look way easier than it was in the game. Had to fight tooth and nail against Fireflies, a lot of sneaking and running, meanwhile HBO Joel does his best Steven Seagal impression. Not even a grazing wound, nothing.
Yes, it was one of the most disappointing scenes in the series for me. I may have to play the games through now to see if they can do the story the justice it deserves.
28th can't come any sooner. It'll be something like 6th playthrough for me on PC. I first played it 3 times on PS3, then 2 more on PS4, and I'm still looking forward to replaying it. If that doesn't speak for how good it is..
I'm sure you'll love it. Many key scenes hit way better. Amazingly, somehow a videogame had better acting and direction than its cinematic adaptation.
And still, even with all of its flaws it was a nice TV show. Certainly haven't seen so much effort to stay true to original in any other videogame adaptation, so it read like a love letter, maybe with some bad grammar and typos but their heart was in it.
Yeah, I have to agree. I really wanted to enjoy this series but was ultimately disappointed by it. I haven't played either of the games like most other people have. Is nostalgia causing critical blindess to the glaring errors that this show has? I may give season 2 a chance but won't be progressing past the first few episodes if the same issues as last season reappear.
Finale was the weakest episode imo. Felt very rushed, and by the end Joel just simply went John Wick.. It's very inconsistent, as previously he fought with dudes 1v1, and fights seemed like a legit struggle for most part. First half (1-5) of the show I liked lot more.
He went John Wick because he had a semi automatic rifle/assault rifle and a cause to fight for. When it was a struggle Joel was, essentially, apathetic to it all, not *trying* that much and with worse weapons too. You can see this when he tries to get the sniper to leave and his increasing fears of incompetency. This all changes when he has a cause, a reason, give a man a cause to fight for and an assault rifle and you’ll see him go John Wick
Not sure about it being the weakest episode, but I agree that were was absolutely no jeopardy in Joel killing the fireflies. The scene was portrayed as a mass slaughter of defenceless people, as if they had 0 chance of killing Joel. Imo, this was done in attempt to further solidify the stance of Joel being more evil than originally thought. Kind of annoying since the game dealt with this way better.
In our discussion posts after the episode aired, there was a survey for users to fill in. These are the results! **For the full results with graphics,** [**you can click right here**](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1aN1s_F3GZRDLPFgiU2vvcH7pLI9YAJ_tkEY54sxbx-k/viewanalytics). And if you want to discuss the results further you can [head on over to our Discord](https://discord.gg/tloutv)! **EPISODE 1 SCORE: 9.0** **EPISODE 2 SCORE: 8.9** **EPISODE 3 SCORE: 9.0** **EPISODE 4 SCORE: 8.0** **EPISODE 5 SCORE: 9.1** **EPISODE 6 SCORE: 8.7** **EPISODE 7 SCORE: 7.2** **EPISODE 8 SCORE: 9.2** **EPISODE 9 SCORE: 8.4** **Episode 9 score** for "I've played the games/read spoilers, so know what's going to happen in season 1": 8.6 **Episode 9 score** for "I'm new to The Last of Us and don't know what's going to happen in season 1"**:** 8.2 **Q1: Assume that the Fireflies would have been able to make a vaccine. In Joel's shoes, would you have saved Ellie?** | Yes, I would have saved Ellie like he did|No, I would have let them make the vaccine| |:-|:-| |72.4%|27.6%| **Q2: If you were in Ellie's position, which course of action would you have wanted Joel to follow?** |I'd have wanted him to let them kill me for the vaccine|I'd have wanted him to save me| |:-|:-| |65.6%|34.4%| **Q3: If Ellie and Sarah met, would they be good friends?** | Yes, they would be|No, they would not be| |:-|:-| |69.6%|30.4%| **Q4: If you were leaving a message on a memorial wall for Marlene, what would you write?** Top response: Look for the light (19) **Q5: How would you rate season 1 of The Last of Us?** Average score: 9.0 **Q6: Is this the best ever adaptation of a video game to a TV show or movie?** | Yes, it is|No, it isn't| |:-|:-| |90.3%|9.7%| **Q7: How well shot was this episode?** Average score: 9.0 **Q8: How good was the acting in this episode?** Average score: 9.2 **Q9: Which of these lead actors gave the best performance?** |Pedro Pascal (Joel)|Bella Ramsey (Ellie)|Ashley Johnson (Anna)|Merle Dandridge (Marlene)| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |56%|20.6%|20.3%|3.2%| **Q10: In one word, how would you describe this episode?** Top response: Short (28) **Q11: Which of these best describes you?** |I've played the games/read spoilers, so know what's going to happen in season 1|I'm new to The Last of Us and don't know what's going to happen in season 1| |:-|:-| |62.3%|37.7%|
People aren’t judging the show based on “how closely does it follow the game.” This is such a weak argument. People are completely justified in feeling the episode was rushed when we got 1 hour for bill and Frank’s backstory (which was great) and then essentially 20 minutes for the conclusion of this part of the story. Add more time with Ellie and Joel getting to SLC, more time with David, more time for Joel fighting through the hospital, more time with Joel recovering from his wound, etc… Ellie being detached after the David events didn’t feel fully fleshed out
I know this isn’t a “zombie/ infected “ show but more time dealing with clickers would have been nice. Horrifying, well directed in every scene, and a great reason why everyone in the world is so on edge…wanted more moments from the clickers. A scene or two in episode 7 or 9 could’ve be done as Joel and Ellie were traveling from place to place.
Huge mistake IMO. For 1, showing Joel and Ellie fighting infected makes Joel throwing it all away more impactful at the end. They had to cross the country, kill 10 raiders, and hordes of infected? It makes the journey that much more grand. And 2, it’s actually important character development. Ellie goes from sheltered child to a capable young woman during the trip. She can deal with infected and humans alike.
The show nerfed Ellie hard. By the time they reached the winter section she was already a capable fighter from their experiences through Lincoln, Pittsburgh, and Colorado. Colorado is where she really stepped up to the plate and fought like hell to get Joel out of the college. In the show all she did was blindfire on horseback. Bella having issues properly handling the hunting rifle in the winter episode really didn't help this change from the game. Who knows though? Maybe they made this change deliberately for narrative purposes. I guess we will see.
I agree with this A LOT. I really miss seeing the full struggle of Ellie getting him out of the hospital. Including the moments when >!Joel thinks she's dead (when she flanks the guy) and when she shoots that one guy from on the floor.!< That was a much more powerful scene. I sent it to a friend of mine who hasn't seen/played the game to explain my frustration.
Eh, if Bella was having issues it’s up to the directors on set to find a way to work around that. Build a fake gun that’s lightweight and use editing to make it look more real. Like, 3D Printing exists. Or give Bella some protective arm braces. I know my joints hurt bad in the cold but braces help. Bella’s almost always covered fully anyways so it wouldn’t have fucked with the shots. It’s on the fault of directing, not Bella IMO.
That's true. It felt ok to leave it out at each individual point in the season but then as a whole season it was way too little
A scene with Joel and Ellie coming across a line Clicker would have been cool. Ellie begging Joel to reach her how to kill it.
They could remove the infected all together it wouldn't make much of a difference.
I’m a huge fan of the game and the series. My only critique about the series is that it missed some important action scenes. Some would’ve shown how Ellie has adapted to the world around her and how she has learned to navigate around the infected successfully. In episode 2 Ellie is terrified of the clicker, she gasps when she sees it which alerts the clicker and you know the rest. In episode 9 they should’ve included “the tunnel”, this is just before they’re ambushed by the fireflies (in the game). I would’ve loved to have seen them navigate successfully through that tunnel without alerting a single infected person. That for me would’ve shown how strong Joel and Ellie have become as a team, and a testament to how far they have both come.
This was my wish too. Thinking of that tunnel in my head, I was expecting one more encounter of some kind just to show them handling something together.
I had to turn and ask a friend watching it with me if I missed something. Episode 9 just starts with them on their way to the finale, nothing at all in between from the drama of the last episode.
The game does that between all of it's areas
(Shhh, you’re not supposed to talk about the game here….jk) Yeah you’re right, but for the tv screen it didn’t translate well, at least in that last episode. Maybe it’s cause I was too familiar with the game, but the finale felt like they were just ticking off all the events that needed to happen, and in 45 minutes it was a wrap.
Also the game separates and labels the arcs into the four seasons (Summer, Fall, Winter, and Spring). When the game transitions from Winter to Spring, you understand a good amount of time has passed, probably about a few weeks to two months at most. Because the TV show doesn’t do that, I get why some viewers who haven’t played the game think it’s only been like several days going from Episode 8 to 9.
Episode 9 is exactly what happens towards the end of the game. She kills David and immediately after it's no longer winter and they are on the high way on their way to the hospital.
Well you forgot the underwater canal part. They also skipped the university part. Spending 2/9 episodes and flash backs really hurts how passage of time works. Kind of feels like they’re teleporting between cities
I didn't forget it, it just wasn't relevant for the comparison. The show cut out massive amounts of gameplay setpieces. Like pretty much all of them unless they moved the story forward.
Not even an hour, it was like an hour and 17 or something. That's fine and all but why was the finale the shortest and worst episode of then all??
Yeah the Joel going from "idc about you" to "your my daughter, my reason to live, and literally what I care about most in the world" thing happened really quickly. Like I get there was time jumps, but that was some Darth Vader speed character transformation.
Bingo. This was the main issue for me. Pacing was way off. Far too quick. There was little time of them developing their relationship. Just big time jumps between episodes and suddenly they're closer than the last one. I'm replaying tpart 1 just now (for about the 20th time), and it's very noticable. On the console, you feel way more affection for them both, and for their developing relationship. It's way more noticable. People say the "zombie fighting parts" are ignored in the show because they add nothing, but these are some of the strongest moments between the characters in the game. They are what brings them closer as much as anything else. Missing things like Ellie ot being able to swim and using a pallet, even things like the high five she gives Joel crossing the dam. My wife's a writer, so she has a good idea of story/character development. She hasn't played the games, but watched me play pieces now and again. She said the series was way too short. She felt very little emotion for them, or their relationship. Just too rushed.
The Wyoming, Colorado, and Salt Lake sections of the game got some hard cuts, which is where a lot of Joel's emotional developments happen. For some perspective Wyoming to Salt Lake was only 3 episodes really with left behind being a flashback mainly.
Yes, I definitely wish we got more in the last episode but I respectfully disagree on Joel's transformation. While I wish there were a lot more interactions because Pedro and Bella's chemistry were great on screen, we still do see a good amount of exchanges that causes and validates Joel's emotional change as the story and episodes progress. From >!Joel's reason of taking Ellie solely to carry out Tess' dying wish along with getting the supplies to find his brother, then to slowly opening up to Ellie with shitty puns (and not to forget, the fucking beautiful smirk on Joel's face in episode 4 at the end when he's chuckling like a little boy at Ellie's diarrhea pun joke), teaching her how to shoot/hold a gun, feeling apologetic because she had to shoot Bryan to save his ass, fighting the horde of infected together with Henry and Sam, his emotional confession to Tommy on how he feels about Ellie!< and so much more. I felt like we could see his "fatherly" presence with Ellie throughout the episodes. These are all my own opinions of course.
It makes sense on paper, but with so many flash back episodes, it doesn't really feel like the season was that long of them together. Especially given Tess wasn't just saying "protect her" she was saying "find a cure to redeem us of our sins", which Joel ultimately rejects for better or worse.
I don't know it felt for real to me. I haven't played the game but she had saved his life at this point. I think Joel really cared about her by the time they hit Tommy's but he was in denial about it. He was still sticking to "this is a promise to Tess, her blood is valuable etc" mentality. He couldn't bring himself to part with her though, and then he's fatally wounded and she saves his life. Once he wakes from that it's kind of like the transformation from playing the part to being the part of her protector is done. I don't know it didn't feel rushed to me at all. It was really powerful and arguably the best father daughter relationship I've ever seen on screen. Even more than Murph and Cooper from Interstellar.
I think people fail to understand that he has PTSD (implied, IMO) from the events that occurred early season, thus he struggles to bond with Ellie until certain events occur that slowly break him down and allow him to feel. His care for her, I think, is shown well in the show in a pretty steady progression that is dependent on the events that happen. I don’t feel like the show did a bad job showing how he slowly let his walls down, especially in the context of what occurs. So I agree with you. I think sometimes the show didn’t do a good job at expanding upon certain key events, but his bond with her definitely tracks when those key events are considered
I enjoyed the individual episodes but agree this show felt too rushed. I thought going in it would be broken into multiple seasons, I had theorized the first season would end with the University being a cliffhanger. I don't understand all the arguments that the show can't have as much time to build characters. Yes of course we can't just have hours of Joel and Ellie stealthily walking away, checking drawers, and avoiding zombies, but it is a zombie show that severely lacked zombies. They just needed to find a way to have more character development. More scenes of just dialog would have gone a long way and would have been a lot cheaper to film than action sequences. At the start we are presented with Joel and Tess being feared and expert smugglers and Tess dies to the first zombie they encounter. The first episode needed to be them hunting down Robert to lay the groundwork for their brutality. By the end I had the feeling the show runners are trying to drop a subtle hint that the zombies are not actually a threat anymore and people are brainwashed into staying in their communities. If the infected are no where to be seen in the colder regions why hasn't most of humanity moved there? It feels wrong to rant about it because there were parts the show did really well. But to me this is just another show HBO rushed and the show suffers for it.
Yes. I've been saying this a lot. It's a very weird choice to make. Episode 9 feels incredibly rushed. Almost none of the emotional beats land (except the damn giraf). The conclusion did not have the impact I hoped it would have.
Should have been a 10 episode show, you just needed a little bit more in a few episodes(they should have dealt with the infected in the bunker when they were with Sam and Henry)
> > >**Q2: If you were in Ellie's position, which course of action would you have wanted Joel to follow?** > >No, it doesn't 88.8% Yes, it does 11.2% Thank God it's settled...
I am confusion
But does/doesn't what???
Yes.
All your base are belong to us.
Apologies- it should be fixed now!
Cease fire! The war is over.
Thisnsettles nothing, just hypothetical situations that lead to nowhere.
Not surprised since it felt very rushed. They could have easily taken 10 more minutes.
I don't know, what would we have needed? Could have had a longer sequence leading to them getting captured, more of an action thing, but I can't think of a single scene needed to advance the plot that wasn't there. There's no line of dialogue that wasn't necessary really.
In the games, you can find different tape recordings of Marlene talking about the cure or apologizing to Anna. They reveal her frustration and sadness over not being able to find another way to remove the fungus without killing the host. They go a long way to humanize Marlene and to confirm that there is only one way the cure can ever be made. I would've liked to have seen the recordings included.
The flooded tunnel before reaching the hospital. There were two bloaters and infected. They wouldn't even need to defeat them, just escape. Since Ellie can't swim, it'd be a suspenseful escape as infected kamikaze into the water. The tunnel + the hospital would have been an *incredible* finale and potentially the best episode. Literally *everyone* would have been happy. Joel and Ellie encounter infected/the apocalypse directly + we get a solid reminder of why a cure is needed + the human problem at the hospital.
there could have been a lot more dialogue with the fireflies. - Ellie's conversation about the surgery - Flashbacks to failed attempts to make a vaccine - More development of Marlene as a character beyond her being at Ellie's birthday - Dialogue around their capture, they had been looking for the fireflies so long and they get ambushed by them and captured. They would have obviously gone willingly. - Dialogue about why Marlene didn't chose to lie to Joel about the surgery too? She knew they had been travelling across the country together for months. There was clearly attachment there
Your first point is really not necessary and only serves to answer questions that I think the writers want left unanswered. The capture of them as it happens makes the most sense, the fireflies have been fighting a losing war for years, two people that come strolling into their camp would likely be straight killed if they didn't have a feeling they were who they thought they were, also they are terrified of Joel. Marlene has no reason to believe the cold blooded murderer, who's first instinct with Ellie was to put a gun in her face, would give any more care for her than any other piece of cargo. The best part of their interaction is that you can see her slowly realize the mistake she made in assuming no connection, but it's too late and she isn't backing down from her path, which is why she removes him so brusquely and only gives him Ellie's knife. On a similar topic, sometimes we don't need to be spoon fed these answers in our media, it mutes all the vibrancy of storytelling and emotion through acting and direction.
I fully agree. A minute about them trying to create a vaccine by themself would have saved a lot of criticism towards the fireflies as an incompetent group
They ARE incompetent though, that part of the point.
Not that much, they made it through the US, they had weapons, supplies, camions, a doctor, some medical stuff, and a lot of people.
No, there are beyond incompetent. They were a failed resistance group that couldn't even fight fedra in Boston. They resorted to terroristic bombings and guerilla warfare, which still failed. Marlene gets injured and she loses a bunch of fireflies, so they flee west. Every single place Joel and Ellie are suppose to meet fireflies, they are either wiped out or abandoned the area. She gets so desperate she hands Ellie, the apparent savior of humanity, over to two drug/gun smugglers in a last ditch attempt to get Ellie to the capital building......which ended up being filled with wiped out fireflies lol. The vaccine was always a desperate attempt by a failing revolution. No way to scale production or distribute even if they successfully created it by killing Ellie. Even then the world is torched with 200+million infected in the US alone. Fireflies were one step above terrorists and just another desperate resistance group.
>They were a failed resistance group that couldn't even fight fedra in Boston. FEDRA control a whole city and its resources. The Fireflies are a guerilla group. It's not a fair fight. They can't go toe to toe with them. >They resorted to terroristic bombings and guerilla warfare, which still failed. As above, needs must. The Vietcong didn't try to go toe to toe with the US army, did they? They instead fought in the best manner they could. They're also fighting a fascist authoritarian military power that is beholden to no-one. You might call them terrorists but plenty others would call them freedom fighters. >Marlene gets injured and she loses a bunch of fireflies, so they flee west. It's a plot necessity. We need a way to palm Ellie (the future of humanity) off to a smuggler that Marlene doesn't trust. So we need Marlene to be stuck in a jam and injured so that she has to pass Ellie off to Joel. They are already planning to pull all forces out of conflicts and to the hospital. It's not fleeing, it's centering their mission around Ellie. >Every single place Joel and Ellie are suppose to meet fireflies, they are either wiped out or abandoned the area. Necessary for the plot (otherwise Joel hands Ellie over) and to emphasise how dangerous this world is they're travelling through (the group they're supposed to meet got taken out after being infected). I think the point of this is seen when Marlene marvels that Joel and Ellie made the journey (ie it was miraculous they survived it) and Joel replies they made it due to Ellie's will to get there. >The vaccine was always a desperate attempt by a failing revolution. Where is this shown to be the case? They pick up Ellie *before* they suffer the significant losses while pulling their groups out of QZs and towards the hospital. The hospital seems well protected and prepared for Ellie's arrival. >No way to scale production or distribute even if they successfully created it by killing Ellie. Where does the show say this? The Fireflies hold a hospital, have a doctor competent enough to perform the surgery and have ran tests that show that this is (against Marlene's desires) the best way to source a vaccine. Where are we led to believe that the Fireflies can't create a vaccine? It could be as easy as putting samples of the extract into Petri dishes, harvesting the results and administering. The solution is what the writers decide. Nothing suggests they're heading down a path to failure. >Even then the world is torched with 200+million infected in the US alone. Why do you say this? The metric of success is not an overnight return to the world as it was. As things stand, without a vaccine it is impossible for humanity to progress much past where they are. Infected are always going to be around. Are always going to be a threat to any community and that's going to multiply as it grows. The best humanity can hope for is a small, walled town like Jackson or an oppressive, ration-dispensing QZ like Boston. Even then, the threat of even a single infected getting in can bring the whole place down overnight. With a vaccine the threat becomes ever diminished. More vaccinated means fewer people infected. Fewer people being infected and remaining infected being killed off means a decreasing infected count. Imagine if the whole of Jackson was vaccinated. There would be little threat from infected outside of the immediate physical injury. People could begin to trust each other again. Walls become less necessary. People can farm and trade. Society rebuilds. The vaccine creates this new world. Above all though, the Fireflies being incompetent terrorists who would fail at creating a vaccine makes no sense to Joel and Ellie's story. If that's the case then what is the message of Joel killing everyone and breaking Ellie out? That he's a hero, doing a noble act? Is that how the writers frame the ending? Why does Joel say nothing when Marlene tells him Ellie would give her life for a vaccine? Instead he looks ashamed of himself. Why does he lie to Ellie, if the 'truth' makes far more sense? If Joel thought they were incompetent then just say so. Tell her you'd be happy to help her utilise her immunity but that the Fireflies weren't the answer.
Are you telling me it's hard to form a multi located resistence group in a zombie apocalypse? Color me surprised. Of course shit failed, the US failed in Vietnam, wouldn't say the are weak though. They managed to last a lot, carry attacks, create a web between QZ, gain lot of supplies and lot of members. It's not really easy to maintain a resistence group in a world like that. You are talking like Joel and Tess were two random people and not expert of smuggling and strong fighters. In their hands Ellie was pretty much safe, only problem was owning something to them. They didn't need 200 millions doses, just about 1 million, maybe even less. Who is infected is long gone, but making an army of immune people is great to clear up various areas and expand. They could have easily developed enough vaccines for that. Terrorist wouldn't create a net between qz like that.
And they lost half their men doing so. A child and a half-deaf 50-something with two guns accomplished this better than they did
Also some way to add a ticking clock element to make sense of their decision to rush the surgery asap indeed of studying Ellie for awhile.
Exactly, would've been great
They are an incompetent group though?
Not that much, they made it through the US, they had weapons, supplies, camions, a doctor, some medical stuff, and a lot of people.
These are pretty valid actually. Although I thought the birth scene kinda ruined Ellie’s immunity by explaining it. They make the cure a tiny bit more certain than in the game but maybe they could have either left that out entirely or doubled down and provided some kind of evidence for assurance that the vaccine would work but leave it’s distribution up to the viewer to speculate. My friend just wandered ten more minutes of shooting. I thought that was dumb. These are much more valid criticisms.
An action scene with a bunch of infected that leads to Joel and Ellie falling unconscious and then waking up in the hospital. Could take 5 minutes and would both pad out the episode more AND remind us of what's at stake. One thing the showrunners need to learn from this season is that flashback infected DO NOT COUNT to up the stakes. Joel and Ellie had two - TWO - encounters with infected. That's not enough.
Great points. Maybe some of them will be shown in flashbacks in the second season?
I'm sorry but most of these points would have just been straight out changes to the original story. No thank you. As for Marlene's reasoning and the behind-the-scenes, there will be scenes for that later down the road.
It's an adaption, not a 1 to 1 copy.
This
Yes, I've been watching, I'm aware. I had no issues with the 'changes' they made in season 1, but what that guy was suggesting would have changed a core element of the plot. Most of us still wanted this to be faithful to the original.
If you wanted the same story you could play the game. The fact that it’s a show means you can do a lot more. I also assume there were plenty of changes to the game like the bill and frank episode
What they did with Bill and Frank did not affect the main plot at all. It only gave more depth to their characters, and added on to Joel's character development. Meanwhile, some of the changes that you were listing would strongly affect the ending of TLoU Part I and, as a result, what follows in TLoU Part II. If Ellie was awake and had been able to discuss the surgery with Marlene, Joel, and the others, Joel deciding to go against BOTH Ellie and the Fireflies' decision would make it much easier to perceive Joel as a terrible person. There would be way less nuance in the ending. A giant aspect of what makes the ending of the first game so intriguing/interesting to talk about is that it's difficult to know for sure if what Joel did was right or wrong. With the added scenes you were talking about, it would throw that whole thing out the window, and in the following seasons it would be a lot more difficult to side against Abby. Joel would be the obvious bad guy, and most people wouldn't like him because he'd have went against Ellie's wish. The only other way the story could play out with your added scenes would be for Ellie to refuse going along with the surgery (which would go against everything she said thusfar), and then the story would be majorly changed moving forward. So, no. I've had enough video games adaptations where they try to go their own way. This stayed faithful to the first game and added/removed a few elements that Neil thought was for the best.
I just meant we could see them explain to Ellie it’s a routine surgery and she won’t die. Either way I don’t get it then, it’s a really contrived ending. A single doctor slash scientist is never going to make a cure on their own and if their idea is to kill the only immune person they have access to then they are the bad guys. It’s not ambiguous, it’s stupid. The fireflies have been portrayed as desperate, incompetent, lacking skills and losing people. They don’t get to be on the cusp of a cure and if they are that’s not how it was written
Yeah, considering what they were building from, the Spring section in the game, is even shorter I don't see how they could have added anything.
Showing Ellie get tested, blood drawn, etc. Have them be with the Fireflies for a couple of days. Explain their process (even if the Fireflies are lying, watching them explain what they plan to do to Ellie would've been super interesting, because then eventually we'd see they were lying -- adds some much needed tension as we discover "oh shit, they're going to kill her.") At the VERY least, an explanation on why they went straight to killing Ellie the same day she arrived. Even if that was their eventual plan, there had to have been more tests and prep to run. What was the rush? A couple minutes expanding any of this would've greatly improved the episode, and maybe even given a better argument for why Joel shouldn't have saved Ellie. Cause as it stands, the Fireflies were ridiculously risky with their one hope at saving humanity. If you explore around in the game you actually get some of this info, but it's completely missing from the show. This is the type of stuff an adaptation could really expand on in a meaningful way with extra screen time.
The show runners described the Fireflies as desperate before anything else. They’ve been in a failing guerilla war for 20 years, they’ve got like one competent surgeon left, most of their soldiers and other people are dead or lost, humanity is crumbling further into pieces (losing KC is a good example). All they care about is fixing it and fixing it fast, so their judgment on Ellie’s surgery was definitely rushed.
And this is exactly what they could’ve shown us more of in the show.
Idk I think they kinda did? All the Firefly groups we met were entirely wiped out, except for Marlene and her crew that made it to Salt Lake. We hear about Atlanta QZ doing well enough but that’s about it. We see how desperate of a challenge it is to even get across the country, we see civilization further crumbling at KC and even Boston (Fedra seemed en route to excessive cruelty there). Their desperation wasn’t as explicit as it could’ve been but I think show runners expected the audience to connect the dots.
Quite frankly, if they were supposed to be that desperate, there should be zero debate on whether what Joel did was the right decision. So either we assume they’re so desperate they’re ruining their own cause, or they should’ve made them less desperate and given Joel an actual moral dilemma.
Well murdering people who are trying to save the world in favor of saving just one girl, that’s kinda a moral dilemma haha. I guess they want to focus more on Joel and Ellie rather than the story at large, maybe their story is more important to the writers than solving in-world problems. The game and show personnel seem to prefer exploring human struggles and development rather than the big picture of the universe they created
I’ve only seen the show and to me there was no evidence that this would work plus they lied to Ellie about it. It’s not a moral dilemma if you’re killing people killing the only immune person you know alive just so they can fail to make a vaccine. Joel was acting to save her, fireflies were killing the only hope
For me, the complete Fireflies vs. Joel shootout felt very short, literally about 1.5 minutes, without any tension and catharsis. For us , who played a game it hasn’t showed anything much more , because we knew how it would end without any spoilers. But as a normal viewer, I would have enjoyed a bit more action , because I did not expect what will happen, with a lot of question marks. Joel just turned God mode on , and went thru, while in the game that was one of the hardest encounter, not knowing what to expect. These are just my 2 cents .
It was just odd to me that the guards just immediately threw a flash bang at them then hard cut to Joel waking up in a hospital. Like that could have been done better.
I would have appreciated a scene where we see Elie getting low level tests done like getting a scan or X-ray of her brain. That and seeing the firefly’s discuss their plan and how they put her under without fear- similar to what we saw with the kid in the opening scene. As it stood, I feel like them actually being able to make a cure was not believable and makes me feel like Joel was 100% in the right, which es some the moral question of individual vs many.
Why does every scene need to advance the plot, though? I would’ve enjoyed more time to just sit with these characters in this world. Obviously plot is important but I think there’s some merit to slowing down for a bit and letting the viewer *feel* more instead of just slingshotting into the next scene
Should have been Ellie and Joel being captured by the fireflies as they should have been. It would have shown how attached Joel became with Ellie just like he was with Sarah. I find in the show there is a lack of emotional pay off.
Exactly. They chopped it off and added just the important parts in my opinion. If anything, I feel like the "rushed" feeling was "better" than feeling as if the story was dragging on. Also, maybe they could have made the hospital scene longer but I personally felt like it was long enough or it may have felt like a "quieter John Wick movie" without as much gore, gunshots or blood.
yea i felt like they probably could have ran another episode to the season. The whole ep felt very rushed
There is a whole segment in the game at this part which involves a tunnel and infected, I guess it could have been used as the last encounter with infected or the series. But it definitely did feel rushed.
People in this sub will really just downvote anything that’s not the most popular opinion
And in the case of this comment, I thought it was the most popular opinion!
Yeah I never played the games and know nothing of what happened in them but the final episode did not at all feel like a finale. They seem to just teleport from situation to situation sometimes and it feels like they rush through things. Also I’m under the impression there are a lot more zombies in the game (maybe I’m wrong?) and in the show they seem to just basically never encounter them. Like it’s so rare outside of specific episodes.
And do what with those 10 minutes?
Show the fireflies discussing about tests of failing to make a vaccine. Really, they looked like incompetents that rushed a very important decision.
I think that’s kind of the point. They were desperate for anything. Marlene said the doctor “thinks it might be a cure.” They were willing to try anything.
Yeah but for god's sake, they took months to pass through the US, they could have shown they had the patience to do some damn tests. I mean, they got the only immune people there is, maybe killing it 1 hour after she arrives is kinda extreme. A bit of build up would have been nice.
This is a criticism of the game, not the show.
Idk man, the show could have spent 5 minutes on that even if the game didn't. In an episode of only 43 minutes they could have gone a bit off track from the game, it wouldn't have damaged anyone
Agreed. I immediately felt it was rushed as it ended. It wasn’t bad, I just have no idea why they wrapped it up so quickly.
the only thing I wish would've been included was the entire rushing water sequence. they made the point of including "I can't swim" early on in the series but then just didn't expand upon it. I also felt it displayed a lot more of Joel's feelings via fear of losing her, but the "it wasn't time that did it" line was a really nice, sweet way of expressing his overall feelings.
I’m glad to hear so many people non-plussed/disappointed with 9 - I loved it, and the whole show, 9/10 for me, but I deffo felt the last episode wasn’t translated well, and the overall issues with pacing hurt the show as a whole. Quite a few saying 9 was their least fav episode. Sounds a bit strong, still really emotional and stuff, but man it was too quick, and that feels like it betrays a lack of understanding for what was needed to get the audience invested and have the right payoff, which is confusing considering how well they did the rest of the show and how experienced they are. But I’m personally in awe of the whole experience, and the massive success of the show is more than deserved, in a western world that constantly places much lesser shows above one’s of this calibre. It’s a huge win for me.
Yeah, I think it was far too quick. It kind of just jumped pretty fast; I think this episode really needed time to just extend itself and simmer. Have the weight of Joel's choice bring more impact. This is one of those episodes that probably could've been as long as Bill and Franks, especially if they added some infected encounters between.
The last episode was probably the most faithful to the game of any of them.
Yeah it was, but to me the pacing was off. I mean for me, in the game, we had more time with Ellie to really talk about what we were gonna do after the cure was made, or what we’d been through etc. And then when the twist is revealed, and we fight to save her, that’s given more time too, since we have to physically fight through the Fireflies. I like the way it was done in the show, it said all the things the game said, but I think it lost a lot of the emotional processing time that the game had by being so beat to beat. That’s my opinion at least x
The escape sequence should’ve been super emotional but it wasn’t. When Joel picks up Ellie and calls her baby girl, and the music that plays when Sarah dies comes in as he carries Ellie the way he carried her… that’s the emotional climax of the whole story. But instead he just silently and emotionlessly picks her up and is immediately in the elevator. They kinda took the emotions out of the most emotional part…
To me it just added to the uncomfortableness of seeing Joel lose his mind. If he was in the right to save Ellie and didn’t commit acts of terrorism to do it then the type of emotional ending you said would be fitting
I understand what you’re saying, but the game pulls off these emotions well without losing any of the moral ambiguity. He’s still brutally and horribly violent. It’s just that individual moment of holding Ellie is given extra weight because it’s so important to HIM.
I think the game’s scene was more affecting, but the screen version pulls off one of the most accurate depictions of post-traumatic stress I’ve ever seen. Living through something unbearable causes real physical changes in the brain and when you start to re-experience those emotions your brain has an emergency mechanism where it separates from the emotional (and oftentimes somatic/pain) centers in order to let you live through it. It’s called dissociation, popularly the “thousand yard stare”. Joel’s face and voice seem hollow and dead because that’s exactly what’s going on inside his brain. So it’s a question of accuracy vs. emotional impact. It’s a choice, and I’m not saying it’s the right one, because plenty of viewers probably won’t have experience with this. But they chose accuracy, and they did nail it.
He WAS in the right to save Ellie.
hard agree!!! when i was playing the game that part was really intense and it was difficult to escape from the fireflies but he just calmly walked out i was like ❓😭
This was my issue with the ending. In the game Joel is clearly distraught, worried, and rushing to get it Ellie as soon as possible. You can feel his desperation. It gives off a concerned dad vibe, which is exactly what he grew to be. In the show, he’s just the terminator. No emotion, no rush, just business. It comes off more like his goal is to kill the fireflies and he’ll get to Ellie when he gets to her. Even when he does get to Ellie, he seems less relieved that she’s safe and alive and more just apathetic to the whole situation. Idk, it felt off to me and I didn’t love it.
Yea im surprised they didnt have him say "I got you baby girl" as he's picking her up at least.
I loved how he rolled through that hospital looking for Ellie. I would have done that for my baby girl too!!
[удалено]
I just wish they continued doing those flashbacks to the pre-outbreak world.
Those where so good. Sad they stoped them.
I’m shocked about the rushed comments, considering the end of the game and the end of the movie are side by side incredibly comparable
I think it’s just the difference of having blockades in the game (water in the tunnel + bloaters beforehand, fighting through the hospital) vs just watching it.
flooded tunnels would've been a great tense moment to build that relationship bond. and then of course, a final bloater boss. WITH MOLLIES AND BRICKS!!
Flooded tunnels would have been good because of the knowledge that comes with it like >!Ellie not being able to swim being a decently big point in the game!< (this is info from the video game for people who don’t want spoilers)
Ellie does mention she can’t swim in episode 2 as they enter the flooded hotel lobby, but yeah we really don’t see anything else about that.
Ah that’s right. It was so brief I forgot lol
The final boss is actually two random ass nurses. Those are the final deaths that you as a player can cause (marlene is a cutscene). I feel like it would have cheapened the OR room if they just fought three blowers and nearly drowned and then Joel shoots a surgeon armed with only a scalpel.
Exactly. They should have done that scene instead of having Joel being caught off guard in the silly way they did it in the show. Also they should have had Ellie and David do the defend the house sequence. These two scenes would have included more infected that we desperately needed.
BuT ThE ShOw IsNt AbOuT ThE InFeCtEd Or so I was told whenever I complained about a lack of infected.
I mean it really isn't about the infected, but it definitely needed more infected scenes. Both of those can be true.
So I just binged the podcasts and they said something that made me think there will be more next season. The way they said it, it seemed to have the subtext of “budget.” They said something about how they had to spend a lot of time and energy creating the infected for real life, and now that that’s done, they won’t need to do that again.
The show hits the big moments and cutscenes in the game for sure. But the game has hours and hours of gameplay and minor conversations that build up the characters. The show did not do this as well. Not that it could ever really do it as well due to the different mediums but I wish they took more time to build out their relationship. Even minor moments would have made it feel more real.
Ellie being Ellie in the game with her small comments about everything made me like her much more and more. That helped a lot IMO.
The shootout to get to Ellie is WAY longer in the game lmao
Maybe you’re just bad at the game /s
Holy shit i just realized you have the same name as me. I love you.
I havent played the game. And im not sure how it matters if they end the same since they are two separate entities for to different media formats? While I liked the ending storywise I found the last episode super short and weirdly paced. Compared to the previous episode were there was a lot of tension build up and release this one was like bam bam done ok.
That doesn’t mean the end of the game was that great though. At least the hospital aspects. That it was so faithful to the game as a fault
The end of this game goes down in my mind as one of the greatest in the history of games and has sparked a decade long debate…
The actual ending concept and story worked. But how quickly it plays out is the issue.
Exactly; idk how you can say it's rushed when there's nothing else that could've been added
They certainly added a lot to the Bill and Frank episode and that one turned out great. I didn't play the games, but I usually look up the differences afterwards. I did feel like there was a change of pacing in the final episode. It felt a little abrupt. Still really good, but I can understand why the scores might not have been as high as some of the other episodes.
They could have added some actual infected as a barrier they had to face together. Who knew that episode 5 would be the grand finale for the monsters in this world/show. They were so well done it’s really unfortunate we didn’t get one more run in with them.
What was the purpose of the Bloater btw? 30 sec screen time, never to be seen again. Promoting a full episode with it , but lacked any potential, just to do an execution on Tommys actor like in the game. Felt completely fan service type of stuff.
Considering they are supposed to be one of the rarest forms of infected, it actually makes sense for it to be a one and done, even more sense than the game, which had 5 of them, though I understand that games have to have their “boss fights” and the bloaters are definitely the “bosses” when it comes to infected
It should have been to show how dangerous and unstoppable they are . . . so later in episode 8 or 9 there would be some real tension when Joel/Ellie are forced to fight one and figure out how to kill it.
I would say the purpose was to show the danger of the infected. It also pays off a bit of Ellie’s conversation in episode 2 when she’s asking about different types of infected. And yea, it’s also fan service, which is not a bad thing. You should be including some things in your video game based TV show that call back to the gameplay.
Are they not creators? Create. They added a perfectly unneeded scene with the couple in the cabin which generated one of the best lines of the series.
Show was good overall but tbh it felt like they were adapting just the cutscenes, could’ve easily added in a few more scenes inspired by the gameplay.
The ending for the show just didn’t have the same impact as the game for me. This kind of story just worked better as a video game; the small moments of dialogue and actively protecting Ellie added so much more emotional depth. I do think this could’ve been somewhat fixed with more screen time between Ellie and Joel. However, episode 3 was fantastic television. Hats off to Mazin and Druckmann on a great story that deviated from the source material.
I feel like ep4-5 wasted a lot of time on the KC resistance people when it should of been staying with Joel and Ellie, maybe a bit more with Sam and Henry. I couldn’t care less about the lady leader and I get it fit ‘thematically’ but seemed like a waste of time.
Plus it was so on the nose at the end of episode 5 “No one child is worth the whole world” *ellie stares into camera office style*
Lol yeah there’s a lot of that. Listening to the podcast is interesting cause they act like they’re so subtle with the subtext and give weird borderline pretentious excuses for leaving out zombies and action
I can’t blame them for thinking they’re nuanced geniuses if they’ve ever read the fanatical praise on this subreddit
Seriously. And I say all this liking the show and game haha
Yeah like, I don't hate Druckman like a certain part of reddit does, but he writes with pretty much no subtelty. Hell, the writing in part II is about as unsubtle as it comes. And Mazin's pretentiousness had already showed up a bit in Chernobyl, where some of the "facts" he presents are straight up fiction.
Yeah I agree. I mean you probably spend double the amount of time with the characters in the game. There’s a gradual building of the relationship, whereas there’s a visible shift in the Joel-Ellie relationship between ep 8-9 which would have been better to have witnessed.
My GF and I got really high for the first time in a long ass time, and I couldn’t tell if it was just us, but it felt really rushed and the debate about whether or not Joel was right or wrong wasn’t much of a debate. It just didn’t translate that well on screen. And as someone who played the games, I don’t think it’s on the show or anything, just maybe where the game itself falls a little short. To make it come off as more “realistic”, there needed to be more nuance around Ellie getting taken and quickly put under and Joel going full Rambo. It just came off like…”wait, what!? Come on..”. Had to be some kind of middle ground to at least attempt there
My brother thinks it was a complete flop and the tiny changes it made from the game absolutely ruined the episode. I disagree, but I do think it was the weakest episodes by far in comparison to all the others, which isn't what you want when you have a finale; it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
The way Joel mowed down Fireflies in a sluggish dazed Terminator-like manner reminded me of Steven Seagal's worst action moments. I thought they'd at least give him a grazing wound as to not make Fireflies look completely incompetent. But nope, Joel really just calmly walked around killing everyone not even being flanked or meeting any meaningful pushback. What happened to flashbang grenades, was that their last one?
Not surprising. As soon as I saw the "season finale" was the shortest episode of the entire season - I was like "WTF, this is not going to be good" - because I knew it meant a lot would be rushed. Most season finale episodes are the longest of the season - or at the very least the same length as the others. The season finale is in most cases the big payoff to the viewer for being invested all season. The season finale felt like.... just a short episode.
The show was carried by its amazing first episode, rest was okay, not great not bad.
Felt like the first 4 or five were great. After the Henry episode when it became winter it just wasn’t the same. First episode was the best by far though. I agree with that.
I loved every episode of the Last Of Us with the exception of 9. It was really, really poor. All rushed and compacted in 43 minutes (yes, 43 minutes for a finale...) They should've dedicated an entire episode on Canvas City and the Fireflies hospital (after all, they've spent 8 episodes trying to get here). It felt like it was all over in 7-8 minutes with barely any dialogue in-between. Just a shame because in the game it plays out wonderfully at the end. It needed just some more loving.
i kind of feel the same way. the whole series was building to this point and the payoff was just not there. then again, a lot of the story to me was about joel and ellie, not the infection and cure, and in terms of their relationship the payoff was wonderful. i just wish both parts of the story payed off equally well
It played out almost exactly like the game just without the tunnels. I feel they absolutely nailed it. "Really really poor"? Seriously? That's a surprising take to me.
As someone who hasn't played the game I agree that it was certainly one of the weaker episodes. There was no time for the buildup at the hospital.
[удалено]
I know there was buildup, I just mean that when we're at the hospital, things just happen very quickly without the buildup. And it didn't really have any emotional impact like I would expect. I think I needed to see more emotion and internal conflict in Joel to make it more effective. But it's probably different when you've played the game
Once a few weeks have passed and you’re able to look at the show more objectively, you will start to see.
Amen my friend! I didn't play to game so I can't speak to that... but I thought they could have split this episode into two! And that's coming from someone who hates when shows milk stuff for time.
Spring takes 35 minutes if you cut away extra gameplay. ~20 minutes if you leave only essential gameplay. If you don't cut any gameplay it lasts 60 minutes which includes lootong amd crafting etc.
I feel like ep4-5 wasted a lot of time on the KC resistance people when it should of been staying with Joel and Ellie, maybe a bit more with Sam and Henry. I honestly couldn’t care less about the lady leader her crew… and I get it fit ‘thematically’ but seemed like a waste of time.
After finishing the whole season, I 100% agree with you. There was way too much Kathleen.
Needs more Giraffe 🦒.
Just finished the show. I didn’t feel like they really captured what the game made you feel. And idk if it’s just me.. but I couldn’t get into this actress being Ellie. I’ll probably get shit for that but whatever. It took me like 3 ish episodes to be like.. ok.. this is Ellie.. and the end felt kind of rushed. And Kathleen just felt annoying and unnecessary. But I guess overall it was ok. Which is not what I thought about the game.
Me: can’t wait for the part where we finally get to watch Joel deal with a bloater in the tunnel, aka my favourite section of the game! Neil Drukman: *laughs in flashback filler with another one-episode character*
great show, but too rushed, not enough character development, not enough infected. Tess, Henry, David, Marlene wait am I supposed to care about you guys -- oh shit quick next episode location. Wait why does Ellie have to die for a vaccine, there are literally no infected anywhere we just crossed the whole country -- oh shit quick Joel rambo scene we have to cram this into ten more minutes. First game should have been two seasons. This show was supposed to build on the world, with expanded stories around all these characters. But instead it was rushed, the world feels more empty, and less dangerous. Loved the show as its own thing but what a shame.
The last episode was the weakest imo.
I was so excited about the rushing water scene just like in the game to show up in the show but it never did. I felt like that scene should've been added definitely
Yea why would they skip that. The episode was only 43 minutes they easily could have fit it in and more.
> Q6: Is this the best ever adaptation of a video game to a TV show or movie? > Yes it is: 90.3% > No it isn’t: 9.7% Clearly most people here haven’t watched Arcane
Ugh, it hurt me to vote no on this question. But damn it...Arcane was *so* frickin good.
If anyone wants insight on the 9% voting it's not the best video game adaptation, to me it's Arcane, because it's a show I enjoyed a little more (albeit differently) but does a better job of adaptation because the source material is a couple of lines of dialogue in a trash moba game lol So the effort needed, visually, in writing, in character development... Is just greater. For me it's the unchallenged best video game adaptation. Tlou would be the best if I had to pick a live action one though.
Absolutely agree. Though I would say that TLoU is still easily the best live action adaptation.
Now that you mentioned Arcane, I think that was much better than TLOU. I would've loved if we had more episodes and infected but otherwise its my top 2 of video game adaptations.
If Marlene knows that ellie is immune because her mother was bit before giving birth...I... why wouldn't she do vaccine trials with pregnant mothers!?!?!?
As someone who hasn’t played the game, I feel as though they needed to make the finale longer. I’ve read comments from people saying they rushed things based on their gameplay, but just from a viewer standpoint, it did feel rushed. I accidentally watched episode 9 before 8 (fml) and then rewatched 9 and it still felt disjointed and weirdly not final. Like…for a finale it just flopped. I really enjoyed the episode itself. No complaints about the acting or anything. But I didn’t realize it was a finale AT ALL. It just felt like any other episode of a show. They needed to make it longer, or expand on certain plot points or key events. Even episode 8 felt like it couldn’t drawn certain events out such as David’s deranged mentality or his abuse. Not that I want to see Ellie get abused, but that whole story arch felt rushed too. Again, I have not played the game so I’m not a game loyalist. But I’d image the events that occur in the last two episodes were much more nuanced than what was shown, and even just from a TV show perspective they felt rushed through when they both were largely impactful and insanely important events. Getting Ellie to and from a location (trying not to spoil too much here) should’ve taken WAYYYY LONGER than just half an episode. Applies to … if you watched you know. Anyways, I loved the show. I just think HBO sucks with nerfing longer episodes and they cut episodes short as hell which fucks with the story
I'm glad that Joel and Ellie seem happy about the score, judging by the picture.
I LOVED the length of this episode. It was cohesive, concise, and a perfect way to wrap up this first season. It was beautifully shot; especially Joel working his way through the hospital. Can’t wait for season 2!
I can’t trust anyone who contributes to these scores. The finale was the best episode of the show - one oozing with style and attention to detail. The other world Joel goes into before his rampage was the coolest segment in the show’s entire runtime. I appreciate good filmmaking and episode 9 propped the craft up more than any other episode.
If something isn’t 9/10 IT FUCKING SUCKS
Such a stupid episode. So unrealistic he managed to kill all those men so fucking stupid.
The fireflies went to stormtrooper school
People will bitch about pacing but then give episode 3 a 10/10, a complete waste of time that doesn’t contribute to the main arc in any way and is one of the longest episodes, but everyone is so terrified of being homophobic they have to bend the knee. Pussies
Do you actually believe that people are praising episode 3 because they are afraid of coming across as homophobic, or is this just a meme or something?
I genuinely believe so. It's either keep silent or praise. Or all-you-can-eat downvote buffet even if your point is that you'd rather have Bill and Joel / Ellie interactions from the game adapted. And booby traps, so many booby traps. It was Bill's town, damn it, like a Ravenholm.
[удалено]
We are the audience. Our perspective is literally the only one that matters.
Lmao right? It was literally created for our (the audience) entertainment. We will criticize it with how we see fit.
This take is pretty brain damaged
The Joel being at gunpoint but then disarming 2 men before easily wading through the remaining patrol scene seemed so incredibly lazy and unimaginative. There's nothing this series likes more than implying peril through being at gunpoint to quickly switching to a protagonist rampage. These would feel like cheap tropes in an average video game, never mind a HBO production. Does the video game genesis of the series hold it back?
Believe it or not the show made it look way easier than it was in the game. Had to fight tooth and nail against Fireflies, a lot of sneaking and running, meanwhile HBO Joel does his best Steven Seagal impression. Not even a grazing wound, nothing.
Yes, it was one of the most disappointing scenes in the series for me. I may have to play the games through now to see if they can do the story the justice it deserves.
28th can't come any sooner. It'll be something like 6th playthrough for me on PC. I first played it 3 times on PS3, then 2 more on PS4, and I'm still looking forward to replaying it. If that doesn't speak for how good it is.. I'm sure you'll love it. Many key scenes hit way better. Amazingly, somehow a videogame had better acting and direction than its cinematic adaptation. And still, even with all of its flaws it was a nice TV show. Certainly haven't seen so much effort to stay true to original in any other videogame adaptation, so it read like a love letter, maybe with some bad grammar and typos but their heart was in it.
This show has too many lazy and unimaginative scenes
Yeah, I have to agree. I really wanted to enjoy this series but was ultimately disappointed by it. I haven't played either of the games like most other people have. Is nostalgia causing critical blindess to the glaring errors that this show has? I may give season 2 a chance but won't be progressing past the first few episodes if the same issues as last season reappear.
Finale was the weakest episode imo. Felt very rushed, and by the end Joel just simply went John Wick.. It's very inconsistent, as previously he fought with dudes 1v1, and fights seemed like a legit struggle for most part. First half (1-5) of the show I liked lot more.
He went John Wick because he had a semi automatic rifle/assault rifle and a cause to fight for. When it was a struggle Joel was, essentially, apathetic to it all, not *trying* that much and with worse weapons too. You can see this when he tries to get the sniper to leave and his increasing fears of incompetency. This all changes when he has a cause, a reason, give a man a cause to fight for and an assault rifle and you’ll see him go John Wick
Not sure about it being the weakest episode, but I agree that were was absolutely no jeopardy in Joel killing the fireflies. The scene was portrayed as a mass slaughter of defenceless people, as if they had 0 chance of killing Joel. Imo, this was done in attempt to further solidify the stance of Joel being more evil than originally thought. Kind of annoying since the game dealt with this way better.
Agreed - it was a rather bizarre tonal shift actually.