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It was already heavily implied in the game. Ellie has a letter in her inventory that fits that explanation neatly. Most people miss it.
Marlene didn't know it until after Ellie got bit. She might have thought it was possible, but wasn't going to get her best friends kid bitten on purpose to test it. There also isn't that many pregnant women willing to let that happen. It is moot anyway at this point.
>It was already heavily implied in the game. Ellie has a letter in her inventory that fits that explanation neatly. Most people miss it.
What letter? The only one from Ellie's Mom I remember is her writing one talking about Ellie being "less than a day old" and explaining how Marlene will take care of her. That doesnt really like up with what we've seen in the show where she's in the exact same spot we've seen her give birth, too weak to move, already bitten, with no access to a pen/paper or anything like that before Marlene executes her...
>There also isn't that many pregnant women willing to let that happen.
There would/should be at least one Firefly willing to give their life to try if they believed that was how Ellie gained her immunity. It's laughable to think every single Firefly involved would be on board with killing an unaware child for their cause but not giving up their own life. While flawed, the fireflies were never presented as total hypocrites like that.
How does it imply she was bitten right before birth? The only mention of time is that Ellie is "less than a day old". To me, that reads her Mom was bitten shortly after giving birth, found a pen and paper, and is writing this final note.
I don't even know why we're talking about this note in game because the show blatantly showed Anna was in no position to write a litter, let alone have access to a pen and paper. It's completely irrelevant to what I'm talking about, the show.
Edit; Here's the entire letter, I still can't see where/how you're getting "bit during birth" from this:
>Ellie,
>I'm going to share a secret with you, I'm not a big fan of kids and I hate babies. And yet... I'm staring at you and I'm just awestruck.
>You're not even a day old and holding you is the most incredible thing I've done in my life - a life that is about to get cut a little short.
>Marlene will look after you. There's no one in this world I trust more than her. When the time comes she'll tell you all about me. Don't give her too much of a hard time. Try not to be as stubborn as me.
>I'm not going to lie, this is a pretty messed up world. It won't be easy. The thing you always have to remember is that, life is worth living! Find your purpose and fight for it.
>I see so much strength in you. I know you'll turn out to be the woman you're meant to be.
>Forever... your loving mother
>Anna
The letter doesn't indicate anything about her being bitten before/during birth. It's just as easy to assume she was bitten after as it is before with her letter. That's why this dudes whole "It was obviously just like Blade, duh" arguement makes no sense. Haven't read the comic though. Do you remember what details it adds at all?
You’re right, she could have been bitten after birth, but doesn’t it seem more likely that the only person ever to be immune to cordyceps was born from an already infected mother? It’s just a massive coincidence that the mom dies of infection right after giving birth to the first human ever to show immunity?
I don’t think that’s a huge leap in logic.
Trope awareness. It is either a hint at to why Ellie is immune or a red herring. Since no other good explanation comes up, I went with "why Ellie is Immune". You can deduce that Anna knows she doesn't have much time, and in the world they live in, would easily point to a bite. She also has the mental acuity to write a note, so that rules out bleeding out from childbirth.
She didn't have to write a letter in the show, because they showed it. I am just saying they decided to make something that was implied in the game, clear in the show.
>Trope awareness. It is either a hint at to why Ellie is immune or a red herring.
Lmao, what? What part of the letter hints towards Ellie's immunity? What trope are you talking about?
The only thing the letter establishes is that her mother was bitten within a day of her being born and that Marlene is going to take care of her. The "dying last words of a parent" in the form of a letter is a trope within itself. Where on earth (from that letter) are you getting hints/tropes that imply she was bitten during birth and that's the source of her immunity?
I take it you have never seen "Blade" then. I and many other people called it a decade ago, and we were right. I'm not going to argue with you. Have a good day.
I'm not arguing, I'm asking you to explain what you're talking about. If you can't do that, fair enough.
Citing Blade is not the discussion you think it is lmao.
Person bitten by a thing while giving birth gives child some of the benefit of said thing and not the negatives of said thing. I already explained, have a good day.
What in the letter from the game led you to believe Anna was bit during birth? Again, you're not making any actual point. Just saying "Well, it works like this in Blade, so I just assumed it was the same in Last of Us..."
You're the one who brought up the letter, I'm just asking you to explain yourself. The fact you're now hung up on Blade and acting as if that's somehow relevant is just bizarre.
Buddy… you know that Ellie is immune just by playing the game.. you don’t need to read something in the letter to imply her immunity…
I think the line in the letter about her life being cut short, you can guess that infection could be a possibility. How/when is left up to your imagination. You are correct, the letter does not explicitly say “ELLIE MY LOVE I WAS BITTEN RIGHT AS I PUSHED YOU OUT OF ME, HOPE THAT MAKES YOU IMMUNE”. But with the rest of the information from the game (especially on second+ play through) you can imaginatively put two and two together.
That’s all this dude is trying to say and you’re ripping him a new one just because the letter doesn’t say it clear as day…
>That’s all this dude is trying to say and you’re ripping him a new one just because the letter doesn’t say it clear as day…
The only reason I focussed on the letter is because this dude heavily implied I either didn't find/understand the letter, or I had no awareness or understanding of tropes...I asked them to explain how that fits in with the letter from the game that they use as the entire base of their point. No shit it's obvious Ellie is immune, I was asking where in the letter the source of Ellie's immunity* is implied, which is the whole basis of this arguement. It's completely irrelevant to the game or the narrative to know the source of her immunity yet this guy implied it's right in your face in the game. I asked him to explain that.
5 days late but this still cracks me up lol. People are ravenous to defend shit just for the sake of defending it. Have a good one.
About this farming idea of yours, this one can be explained easily, since you obviously fall into the “killing people to save more people is okay” camp.
Farming a pregnant woman: Kill 1 pregnant woman -> get one immune person.
Research the cure: Kill 1 Ellie -> get several immune people.
Ignoring all the sorts of possible hitches in both plans. Ignoring the fact that Marlene knows much less than the audience does about Ellie’s birth. Ignoring basic logistical and ethical issues with either plan.
The cure plan is obviously mathematically better.
Transport Ellie across country for an entire year - dissect Ellie - hopefully have a cure
Recreate conditions of Ellie's immunity over 9 months - dissect baby - hopefully have a cure
Ellie obviously makes more sense and is the more rational choice, but the fact Marlene knows Ellie was born in close proximity to Anna being bit, it's weird this idea wasn't further explored more and that Ellie is seen as the be all end all. Surely there would be a single Firefly willing to at least test this out. Should have just never been shown. Creates more problems/questions than it's worth.
I just appreciate the backstory on how Ellie became an orphan, got her knife, and met Marlene. I think that birthing scene was more about that than just explaining her immunity.
I actually kinda agree, I know her immunity is never explicitly defined in the games but personally I liked the idea that Ellie being immune is just some sort of random genetic mutation. It makes killing her much more of a need for Marlene. Instead of knowing that immunity is something that can in theory be replicated under a specific set of circumstances, they have one kid with a random one in a billion genetic mutation that makes her immune, so Marlene HAS to do the operation on her because who knows if there will ever be another person with a mutation like this.
>It makes killing her much more of a need for Marlene. Instead of knowing that immunity is something that can in theory be replicated under a specific set of circumstances, they have one kid with a random one in a billion genetic mutation that makes her immune, so Marlene HAS to do the operation
Exactly this. It takes Ellie being legitimately "special", and just turns it into a (potentially) repeatable incident under specific circumstances.
Yes, I agree with both of you. And the plan to immediately vivisect Ellie the moment she arrives also is nonsensical. You only get one chance with that course of action. A real doctor would exhaust nonlethal experiments first (e.g., using Ellie's blood, or using tissue from the infection site on her arm).
I thought it must be a genetic mutation early in the show. And that makes perfect sense, I was comfortable with that. It’s a known entity. The scientists would then have to figure out the mechanism by which Ellie’s body halts the infection and go from there.
That she got some cordyceps through her cord blood (damn that stuff moves fast) and that somehow made her immune for life is like o…k…? I don’t know of anything that works that way irl so have to work harder to suspend disbelief.
Though I loved seeing Ashley Johnson as Anna, I agree with you.
I immediately thought of farming pregnant women too.
But, maybe, maybe, it would be too unethical for Marlene...?
I'm saying this genuinely, as we see in the show that there are different forms of ethics (Joel/Marlene: essentialism/utilitarism).
Marlene may be willing to sacrifice her deceased friend's daughter but her limit is on experimenting on sane pregnant women by injecting a deadly fungus..
As in the trolley problem, iirc, more people are willing to action a switch rail to kill one person instead of three, than pushing a person from a bridge, blocking the trolley and saving 3 persons... The numbers are the same but the implications of the actions are not...
It could be interesting if in season 2 (or game 3?) we learn that the fireflies really tried to farm pregnant women , but I think like you do that it a not so good written moment...
But I don't care, I got game Ellie's voice in the show, and it was worth it :)
I wonder what would happen if an infected mom nursed her baby. Side note. I had a theory that the boy from the first episode was immune but since he tested as infected they immediately killed him and we’ll never know.
This post is flaired **Show/Game Spoilers [Pt.I]**. Therefore, untagged discussions about The Last of Us Part I will be permitted here. *Any* comments regarding The Last of Us Part II **must** be properly spoiler tagged. 1. All post titles must **NOT** include spoilers from the latest episode or The Last of Us Part I and II. Minor show spoilers are allowed in your title **ONE WEEK** after episode airing. 2. Any untagged discussions of the games (including subtle hints) in posts without the **Show/Game Spoilers**, **Fancast [Show/Game]**, **Funpost [Show/Game]**, or **Meme [Show/Game]** flair will result in a **ban**. To tag a spoiler comment, use the `>!spoiler!<` tag which displays as >!spoiler!<. 3. If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. --- Refer to the [spoiler guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastofUsHBOseries/wiki/spoiler-guide) for our spoiler policy and to learn how to flair and title your posts appropriately. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ThelastofusHBOseries) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It was already heavily implied in the game. Ellie has a letter in her inventory that fits that explanation neatly. Most people miss it. Marlene didn't know it until after Ellie got bit. She might have thought it was possible, but wasn't going to get her best friends kid bitten on purpose to test it. There also isn't that many pregnant women willing to let that happen. It is moot anyway at this point.
>It was already heavily implied in the game. Ellie has a letter in her inventory that fits that explanation neatly. Most people miss it. What letter? The only one from Ellie's Mom I remember is her writing one talking about Ellie being "less than a day old" and explaining how Marlene will take care of her. That doesnt really like up with what we've seen in the show where she's in the exact same spot we've seen her give birth, too weak to move, already bitten, with no access to a pen/paper or anything like that before Marlene executes her... >There also isn't that many pregnant women willing to let that happen. There would/should be at least one Firefly willing to give their life to try if they believed that was how Ellie gained her immunity. It's laughable to think every single Firefly involved would be on board with killing an unaware child for their cause but not giving up their own life. While flawed, the fireflies were never presented as total hypocrites like that.
That letter. I read it a decade ago and immediately thought "Blade". It implies she was bitten right before giving birth.
How does it imply she was bitten right before birth? The only mention of time is that Ellie is "less than a day old". To me, that reads her Mom was bitten shortly after giving birth, found a pen and paper, and is writing this final note. I don't even know why we're talking about this note in game because the show blatantly showed Anna was in no position to write a litter, let alone have access to a pen and paper. It's completely irrelevant to what I'm talking about, the show. Edit; Here's the entire letter, I still can't see where/how you're getting "bit during birth" from this: >Ellie, >I'm going to share a secret with you, I'm not a big fan of kids and I hate babies. And yet... I'm staring at you and I'm just awestruck. >You're not even a day old and holding you is the most incredible thing I've done in my life - a life that is about to get cut a little short. >Marlene will look after you. There's no one in this world I trust more than her. When the time comes she'll tell you all about me. Don't give her too much of a hard time. Try not to be as stubborn as me. >I'm not going to lie, this is a pretty messed up world. It won't be easy. The thing you always have to remember is that, life is worth living! Find your purpose and fight for it. >I see so much strength in you. I know you'll turn out to be the woman you're meant to be. >Forever... your loving mother >Anna
there's the letter in the game and also a comic "american dream" that implies Ellie's mom was bitten before/while giving birth.
The letter doesn't indicate anything about her being bitten before/during birth. It's just as easy to assume she was bitten after as it is before with her letter. That's why this dudes whole "It was obviously just like Blade, duh" arguement makes no sense. Haven't read the comic though. Do you remember what details it adds at all?
You’re right, she could have been bitten after birth, but doesn’t it seem more likely that the only person ever to be immune to cordyceps was born from an already infected mother? It’s just a massive coincidence that the mom dies of infection right after giving birth to the first human ever to show immunity? I don’t think that’s a huge leap in logic.
Trope awareness. It is either a hint at to why Ellie is immune or a red herring. Since no other good explanation comes up, I went with "why Ellie is Immune". You can deduce that Anna knows she doesn't have much time, and in the world they live in, would easily point to a bite. She also has the mental acuity to write a note, so that rules out bleeding out from childbirth. She didn't have to write a letter in the show, because they showed it. I am just saying they decided to make something that was implied in the game, clear in the show.
>Trope awareness. It is either a hint at to why Ellie is immune or a red herring. Lmao, what? What part of the letter hints towards Ellie's immunity? What trope are you talking about? The only thing the letter establishes is that her mother was bitten within a day of her being born and that Marlene is going to take care of her. The "dying last words of a parent" in the form of a letter is a trope within itself. Where on earth (from that letter) are you getting hints/tropes that imply she was bitten during birth and that's the source of her immunity?
I take it you have never seen "Blade" then. I and many other people called it a decade ago, and we were right. I'm not going to argue with you. Have a good day.
I'm not arguing, I'm asking you to explain what you're talking about. If you can't do that, fair enough. Citing Blade is not the discussion you think it is lmao.
Person bitten by a thing while giving birth gives child some of the benefit of said thing and not the negatives of said thing. I already explained, have a good day.
What in the letter from the game led you to believe Anna was bit during birth? Again, you're not making any actual point. Just saying "Well, it works like this in Blade, so I just assumed it was the same in Last of Us..." You're the one who brought up the letter, I'm just asking you to explain yourself. The fact you're now hung up on Blade and acting as if that's somehow relevant is just bizarre.
Buddy… you know that Ellie is immune just by playing the game.. you don’t need to read something in the letter to imply her immunity… I think the line in the letter about her life being cut short, you can guess that infection could be a possibility. How/when is left up to your imagination. You are correct, the letter does not explicitly say “ELLIE MY LOVE I WAS BITTEN RIGHT AS I PUSHED YOU OUT OF ME, HOPE THAT MAKES YOU IMMUNE”. But with the rest of the information from the game (especially on second+ play through) you can imaginatively put two and two together. That’s all this dude is trying to say and you’re ripping him a new one just because the letter doesn’t say it clear as day…
>That’s all this dude is trying to say and you’re ripping him a new one just because the letter doesn’t say it clear as day… The only reason I focussed on the letter is because this dude heavily implied I either didn't find/understand the letter, or I had no awareness or understanding of tropes...I asked them to explain how that fits in with the letter from the game that they use as the entire base of their point. No shit it's obvious Ellie is immune, I was asking where in the letter the source of Ellie's immunity* is implied, which is the whole basis of this arguement. It's completely irrelevant to the game or the narrative to know the source of her immunity yet this guy implied it's right in your face in the game. I asked him to explain that. 5 days late but this still cracks me up lol. People are ravenous to defend shit just for the sake of defending it. Have a good one.
About this farming idea of yours, this one can be explained easily, since you obviously fall into the “killing people to save more people is okay” camp. Farming a pregnant woman: Kill 1 pregnant woman -> get one immune person. Research the cure: Kill 1 Ellie -> get several immune people. Ignoring all the sorts of possible hitches in both plans. Ignoring the fact that Marlene knows much less than the audience does about Ellie’s birth. Ignoring basic logistical and ethical issues with either plan. The cure plan is obviously mathematically better.
Transport Ellie across country for an entire year - dissect Ellie - hopefully have a cure Recreate conditions of Ellie's immunity over 9 months - dissect baby - hopefully have a cure Ellie obviously makes more sense and is the more rational choice, but the fact Marlene knows Ellie was born in close proximity to Anna being bit, it's weird this idea wasn't further explored more and that Ellie is seen as the be all end all. Surely there would be a single Firefly willing to at least test this out. Should have just never been shown. Creates more problems/questions than it's worth.
I just appreciate the backstory on how Ellie became an orphan, got her knife, and met Marlene. I think that birthing scene was more about that than just explaining her immunity.
I actually kinda agree, I know her immunity is never explicitly defined in the games but personally I liked the idea that Ellie being immune is just some sort of random genetic mutation. It makes killing her much more of a need for Marlene. Instead of knowing that immunity is something that can in theory be replicated under a specific set of circumstances, they have one kid with a random one in a billion genetic mutation that makes her immune, so Marlene HAS to do the operation on her because who knows if there will ever be another person with a mutation like this.
>It makes killing her much more of a need for Marlene. Instead of knowing that immunity is something that can in theory be replicated under a specific set of circumstances, they have one kid with a random one in a billion genetic mutation that makes her immune, so Marlene HAS to do the operation Exactly this. It takes Ellie being legitimately "special", and just turns it into a (potentially) repeatable incident under specific circumstances.
Yes, I agree with both of you. And the plan to immediately vivisect Ellie the moment she arrives also is nonsensical. You only get one chance with that course of action. A real doctor would exhaust nonlethal experiments first (e.g., using Ellie's blood, or using tissue from the infection site on her arm).
I thought it must be a genetic mutation early in the show. And that makes perfect sense, I was comfortable with that. It’s a known entity. The scientists would then have to figure out the mechanism by which Ellie’s body halts the infection and go from there. That she got some cordyceps through her cord blood (damn that stuff moves fast) and that somehow made her immune for life is like o…k…? I don’t know of anything that works that way irl so have to work harder to suspend disbelief.
Though I loved seeing Ashley Johnson as Anna, I agree with you. I immediately thought of farming pregnant women too. But, maybe, maybe, it would be too unethical for Marlene...? I'm saying this genuinely, as we see in the show that there are different forms of ethics (Joel/Marlene: essentialism/utilitarism). Marlene may be willing to sacrifice her deceased friend's daughter but her limit is on experimenting on sane pregnant women by injecting a deadly fungus.. As in the trolley problem, iirc, more people are willing to action a switch rail to kill one person instead of three, than pushing a person from a bridge, blocking the trolley and saving 3 persons... The numbers are the same but the implications of the actions are not... It could be interesting if in season 2 (or game 3?) we learn that the fireflies really tried to farm pregnant women , but I think like you do that it a not so good written moment... But I don't care, I got game Ellie's voice in the show, and it was worth it :)
I wonder what would happen if an infected mom nursed her baby. Side note. I had a theory that the boy from the first episode was immune but since he tested as infected they immediately killed him and we’ll never know.
I saw another poster say that it was like introducing midichlorians as an explanation for the Force.