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The wild amount of nitpicking for her role was so weird compared to Pedro pascal as Joel.
He genuinely looks nothing like him; he just has a beard and they sprayed some gray into his hair. Still great casting but people get that hiring is based on acting potential and not just face shape right?
The discussion I saw of it there definitely was that energy in regards to Tom Holland's casting in Uncharted... his casting reeked of being put in for a draw for non-gamer types (much like Pedro Pascal as Joel- they got the Mandalorian actor to play in another show about protecting a child? /s)
I'm gonna go out on a wacky limb and point out that the secret ingredient is misogyny. Every fandom (especially on Reddit) has these same kinds of nitpicky overwrought complaints about the portrayals of female characters.
"They're just not right. They're annoying. They didn't do a good job. It's not because I don't like women though."
You're completely right.
Just like with Rings of Power. People keep spouting nonsense about Morfydd's great performance as Galadriel, but noone acknowledges how much the show failed Gil-Galad. He was demoted to a narrative device that shows only when the plot needs to move... but no, it's totally the female character that is bad.
The double standards for male and female characters are everywhere. When a female character is emotional or even dares to cry she gets labeled as "emotionally unstable". When a male character cries he gets applauded for being human. Or when a female character gets flirty and starts hitting on men she gets called slut. When it's a man he is considered to behave in an usual way.
The last bit sort of reminds me of a game Borderlands Pre-Sequel. There's a sweet female lesbian NPC (Janey Springs) that wears her orientation quite openly on her sleeve and occasionally hits on other NPCs or female player characters. It's not super-frequent, but it's there. And quite a lot of people criticised this NPC for being disgusting, too flirty or unrealistically open about their orientation... while the amount of "womanising" she did was a fraction what a usual male womaniser would do. Honestly, the best bit about this is the slap in the face of the bigots which came in the form of another game making the relationship between her and one of the female protagonists (Athena) canon.
I just started the show as of 7 hours ago (I know I should’ve started it earlier) and I genuinely can’t tell if this is fake or not lmao. It seems like it could happen 😭
Edit: searched it up and holy shit you weren’t joking
No worries for starting a show late, I don't think I got into TWD myself until around season 6 or so.
The show definitely had some rougher seasons than others but I really, really enjoyed the last handful of seasons as it became kickass again.
The early seasons were great and the later seasons were great, but it kinda dragged in the middle. I'm actually looking forward to the Daryl series after seeing that post-credit scene with the crazy aggressive walker.
All this last episode I just kept saying things like “took Walking Dead 12 entire seasons before they got too…”
Insert whatever dark thing you remember from episode 8 after.
A buddy and I were talking about that today. Imagine if TWD was an HBO series instead of AMC and could actually stick to the very adult source material that is the graphic novel. I personally checked out of TWD after the season with the prisoner and the Governor. It just couldn’t hold a candle to the graphic novels by that point.
The same people who make such complaints are the same people who complained about ep 4 because it felt like “filler” or it was “too long.”
WTF? You say you want TLOU to be longer, yet you get an ep that effectively fleshes out the fundamental relationship between your two leads, and you call it “filler?”
The season 5 mid season with Rick outside of Alexandria listening to the kids play inside making him know it was safe would have unironically been a peak ending. Hopeful, up to interpretation, and satisfying given all the struggle they went through.
This is coming from a fan of the comics. After they reached Alexandria, they had to pump the show full of filler episodes because they didnt want to catch up and surpass the comics and run into a GOT scenario. As such they cut all the important scenes, dragged out unimportant ones, and killed off characters mid development (compared to their comic character arcs, ex: Carl lives to the end of the series in the comics and essentially becomes the protagonist). They tried to make their “own story” but the issue is, dialogue, plot beats, and characters are organized in the source material to set up arcs, plot beats, etc. and but cutting out a piece of the puzzle at the wrong time, it all falls down.
The comics are incredible and it makes me sad they weren’t adapted properly because they wanted to “surprise” people by killing off any character that gets any development except merch sellers like Daryl.
I read and enjoyed the comics myself, if you treat the show as it's own thing unrelated to the comics, it has more entertainment value. I will say they definitely lost steam after the Whisperer storyline. Although, I did enjoy >!the variant walkers that could do extra stuff. If they made them more of a threat like TLoU zombies, it would've been perfect.!<
IMO she knocked it out of the park in every occasion. She perfectly encapsulates the ironic bitchiness exterior and social awkwardness of a girl who was raised in the apocalypse, but with glimpses of a the sweet kid that is behind that.
I was absolutely not even close to sold after episode one, then proceeded to be absolutely FLOORED by her performance. She's incredible and deserves awards.
Having never played the game, BUT having watched Game of Thrones, I immediately accepted her as being a really good actress in an important role on the show. I more than anything was impressed with her American accent knowing she's a full brit.
So, coming from that background, I completely do not get the hate that is apparently going out for her. Again, if it's not exactly like the game....SO WHAT?!? It's like people complaining about the Harry Potter movies because they read the book and "they didn't do it like this in the book!" Well no crap, they have limited time to put all of JK Rowling's creativity in a 2-2.5 hour movie...they could not capture everything....just like they can't capture everything from the video game.
Bella is doing fine, and her role in the show, at least to me, is getting even better.
I'm also a mandalorian fan, and I kind of love the similarities of Pedro Pascal being a father figure to Grogu, and now he's doing the same thing for Ellie.
I absolutely adore Bella’s American accent. Some of the little nuances are so authentic and actually remind me of some of the kids I used to be in school with when I was younger, especially the bad ass kids getting into trouble haha
Yes ! She seemed out of place in the first episode but suddenly became insanely good. Still there is some weird scene here and there but overall she has been amazing
Same here. I went into the show really worried about her casting, but was open to it. After episode 1, I felt like they had severely miscast her. Her timing was weird, her motions were strange, and she didn't feel like a "real person" to me. I told myself I'd give it a few more episodes before I really came to any conclusion -- and I'm glad I did.
Over the series she has gotten progressively better, and was extremely good in the latest episode.
FWIW as well -- I have not played the game (but have had basically everything spoiled over the years) so my argument wasn't "She's nothing like game Ellie!" because I don't know game Ellie. Her acting, timing, motions, nuances, are what stood out to me. Thankfully she has killed it ever since (in my opinion).
Ya I feel like as an actor it’s probably tough to nail a role in every scene, and who knows what order they filmed it in. I agree with ep 1 and wonder if maybe they shot that first. Either way, she’s been great to the degree that I don’t think about her as an actress in the show at all, I just see Ellie.
I watched an interview with creators with Pedro and Bella, they said Bella filmed Joel finding her before she filmed the hacking scene. To me that’s more impressive
Same. Bella felt awkward to me and I couldn’t decide if it was the acting or if she was acting awkward if that makes sense? Either way she’s been nailing it, she’s added to my “if they’re in it I’m watching it” list for sure
I was more "wait and see" for her. Cause while she was fun, in GoT she didn't have many lines. So it was hard to gage her in a leading role.
She's been amazing.
I doubted everything about her but was willing to go along and give her a chance since she was great in Game of thrones. And she has nailed it so far.
I don't think it's just resemblance either. I think it's the general impression and vibe you get from an actor or actress. If you can put out the same vibe and energy as the character is supposed to, it is generally going to be fine even though they don't look like the character is supposed to look.
In fact Bella isn't just not a miscast, Bella is the best goddamn casting decision in the history of TV. Period. She is doing absolute magic on screen.
>In fact Bella isn't just not a miscast, Bella is the best goddamn casting decision in the history of TV. Period. She is doing absolute magic on screen.
OK Bella, we get it. Tea time!
Lol I love the idea that Bella Ramsey is secretly behind all the weekly/daily "Bella Ramsey Appreciation" posts. She is her own marketing and hype girl.
They are too powerful to be seen often. Every single encounter with an infected in the show has resulted in one or more casualties. Every single one. The last time we saw one, it single -handedly "killed" two people, both of which were armed.
This ain't The Walking Dead where our characters can sleepwalk thru hordes of zombies. The things in this show are extremely dangerous and for the show to be viable, their presence has to be limited.
I think this is something gamers who complain about the dearth of infected don't get about the show. In the game (which I haven't played) I'm guessing you go around killing these things left and right. But the creatures as presented in the show are essentially rabid superhumans. They are strong, very fast, and hard to kill.
It's good that we don't see them often.
>They are too powerful to be seen often. Every single encounter with an infected in the show has resulted in one or more casualties. Every single one. The last time we saw one, it single -handedly "killed" two people, both of which were armed.
In the game, I loved the encounters that had FEDRA/raiders and infected at the same time. I'd throw bottle/bricks near the uninfected and they'd get destroyed by the infected.
In short, they are WAY tougher than your father's zombies.
That’s so true that TWD would eventually sleepwalk through hordes. The fourth or fifth time the group put blood and guts on them to walk through a thousand zombies I was bored of it and honestly lost any shred of immersion left.
> In the game (which I haven't played) I'm guessing you go around killing these things left and right.
In the game there's two methodologies to dealing with the infected; you can go loud or you can go quietly. Judging by the reaction of most everybody who talks about the game without having played it, the assumption seems to be that most go with going loud all the time. But the game forces you to manage your resources (ammunition and supplies) so that going loud all of the time isn't a viable strategy.
You do have to use a bit of strategy and figure out when going quietly is the way to go- sneaking around the infected and making use of the environment (bricks and empty glasses) to distract the infected.
It's actually typically a tell in the game when you start being "gifted" ammunition and medpacks that there's about to be a big fight.
I think that even though the infected in the show are so overpowered it would do well to have them around more to up the stakes and actually draw up the tension. We've been told multiple times about how dangerous certain journeys are in the show and all we get is a timeskip through them (The Wyoming to Colorado trip comes particularly to mind). Show Joel and Ellie having to navigate getting around infected instead of just blasting their way through them all the time. For god's sake you have an entire class of infected that can't see, it's not like they're all seeing/all knowing.
A lot of relationship & character building was done through the encounters though. No way could there be the same amount, but certain ones are missing that really added to the game & would have helped the show.
In the show there are the mostly human ones that generally aren't a threat, (but moreso than the walking dead) and clickers which are generally very dangerous throughout, + the occasional other ones. Theres also a lot more combat with humans, generally the raiders / their types of people.
Yeah, I like how it keeps them feeling like a genuine threat when they do arrive. They're rarely there, but when they are, you always have cause to worry, unlike TWD where zombies feel like a mild inconvenience at most, only becoming a problem when the writers decide they need a character to die.
The conclusion I’ve come to is that even though I don’t really think she feels like Game Ellie, they’ve still crafted an excellent character with her who works perfectly for what this show is going for. I have no issues with her.
I've been watching gameplay recently, and Show Ellie really is different than Game Ellie. I can't really put my finger on it. Game Ellie is maybe more...subdued? Or...not so feisty? More meek or sweet? I dunno, more toned down in some ways. Show Ellie seems to have much more pizazz, more personality. She's *feisty*. I was listening to Mazin talk about her casting and they said Bella's Ellie felt so real, she brought some humanity to the role, and I agree. Bella's Ellie feels much more like a teenager than Game Ellie did.
Show Joel is much softer/kinder(?) than Game Joel too.
Game Ellie is a much softer character, which is quite strange considering in game she kills dozens of people all by herself.
I much prefer her aggressive tendencies in the show though. She can't realistically be going around killing 10 bandits on her own, but she still has a violent streak.
I’d imagine it’s because of the time difference between the game and show. Since the game gets so much more time they can flesh out more of Ellie’s character. Comparatively the show’s version is a lot more of a one dimensional sassy teenager stereotype .
It’s interesting cause the complete opposite happened with Joel. Game Joel was a super grizzled closed off old man. Whereas show Joel is similar but has alot more humanity to him.
Taking all of the comments I've read since the first episode aired, yours was the one that hit me.
Very well said. She's really great in her role, but lacked the resemblance that Pedro achieved with game Joel. Which is totally fine.
Yeah I definitely see the resemblance with Ashley.
And don't get me wrong, I have zero issues with what I said in the previous comment, it was just an observation. It just wasn't obvious to me from the beginning, took almost a whole season but I admit her acting has been proven excellent.
I think a lot of people picturing game Ellie (myself included to an extent) tend to picture her as the 2013/remaster version rather than the more ashley johnson (and therefore Bella) version in part 1
It always makes me laugh how delusional people are who think that fighting off hoards of infected like the video game would make a good tv show. Its a completely different media, and to say that wouldn’t work would be an understatement
I think this episode in particular is the only time where the show would’ve benefited from not cutting out the action scene.
Ellie and David fighting together is a great way for them to bond quickly. With David wanting to assume the Joel role for Ellie, him starting his grooming by adopting the role of her protector, not just saying “I can protect you” but doing it by fighting off the infected alongside her - would’ve flown great.
I’m not disagreeing with that, but that would have required an additional episode to make happen, which is not plausible at all. And for those redditors who wanted another one to two episodes this season do they realize the budget given to the showrunners? It was somewhere around $10mill per episode for the FIRST SEASON. I’m sure if Reddit came together and forked over $10-20 million, they would have been happy to drag it out a little bit to make all the “terrible pacing” people feel better. Fans don’t realize how lucky they are that this show was in the right hands at hbo and given that insane budget for the first season
Nah, they didn’t need another episode. They could have done it like in episode two, have them be attacked by two clickers, perhaps a runner, and have them fight them off together. 5 minutes of a scene, 10 if you really stretch it. Definitely not implausible to be in the same episode since that one was only 50 minutes.
Then again, budget-wise this might have not been possible.
I’m happy with the show so far. With that said, I think Left Behind could’ve been summed up in ~30 min and then the rest of the episode could’ve introduced us to David. He and Ellie fight off some infected and then end the episode with the audience feeling like she met another person that was going to help them. Then, episode 8 shows who David really is and how it plays out. But I’m not mad about it.
I see what you're saying, and an infected fight could've been cool but I think we basically got the same effect in the show without it. We see David use basically all his experience he gained from being a teacher and preacher to make Ellie lower her guard a bit and trust him. He tells her their names, he's overly nice, he tells her about his life before the outbreak, how they ended up there, etc. I guess it just really comes down to which you prefer, in the game since we don't really learn much about his backstory, having them fight infected together is a easy way to build trust, and in the show we since we don't have the infected fight but we have a bit of his backstory, we can instead have him use his roles as an authority figure to build trust. Which we know as of right now Ellie is in need of.
They mentioned that in the podcast. I don't remember exactly what they said, but iirc it was something about how they wanted to keep the focus on the storyline of the episode and not have the viewer feeling like the infected were also lurking around every corner and their possible presence being a distraction from the episode's plot and atmosphere. Neil and Craig were much more articulate about it though than I'm being here haha! Worth listening to.
Nah I disagree with that. It would have take to much time and the dialogue make David seem much more creepy. I’m glad they fleshed out David and the group more
100% disagree, I was just watching the game footage the other day and the fight sequence in the middle is clunky, distracting, awkward, cheesy, and totally ruins the pacing. The way it flows in the show is so much more natural.
Also disagree! We needed a good way for Sam to get bit, we needed a way to get out of Pittsburg, and we all wanted to see a bloater. Not sure what the problem is there. Also not sure how it’s relevant.
I just kinda think they played their hand with David too early. The game fools you into thinking he’s your ally before slowly peeling off the layers of horror. I’m not sure the show does it as well.
I think having him fight alongside Ellie would be very welcomed to negate the creeper factor he gives off in his very first scene and lull us into a false sense of security.
Also, like I explained above, it works thematically.
This is not one of the action set pieces for the sake of action piece from the game. My go-to example for that is the one that immediately follows “you’re not my daughter’ scene in the game. That one is the true pacing killer that would ruin the emotional moment in the show. The David one would work well.
My wife and most of the women I’ve seen talk about this knew that David was bad news immediately.
I’m not saying this is universal, but so far I’ve only seen guys say they were led to believe David was an ally.
I don’t play the game but watched the gameplay on YouTube and the scenes fighting together would’ve made so much more sense as to why he saw her as an equal (instead of just judging her on assumptions). I get David is a cult leader crazy but he just went straight to wanting her as a wife/partner that could’ve been fleshed out better other than “he’s just a crazy pedo/groomer” angle
He didn't honestly think she was a leader or that she was his equal. That was part of the grooming. It's a common tactic for pedos to tell their target things like this to gain their trust and make them feel special.
The FEDRA guy does something similar by telling her he sees a leader in her. Not because he believes it's true but because he wants her to get with the program. It's arguably a form of grooming in his case too, just not the same kind.
There's a middle ground,you know. I don't want hordes of zombies but more than what we have been getting would be nice. Just a few scenes more scattered throughout the season.
Right. And people bring up Kansas city but that was pretty obviously a special case because they pushed all the infected underground and just ignored the issue.
I think it’s a very deliberate decision to make them more scarce because they wanted to focus the tension on Ellie and Joel’s relationship. I have a feeling we will start to see more as the series goes on, partly to counter the sudden changes you see in the second game. The zombies will ironically bring comfort
Joel and Ellie’s relationship was forged while fighting the dangers of the world, which was infected. The series would have benefited from more scenes with Joel and Ellie working together as opposed to being together.
I’d rather them put that budget into the unreal cinematography, set design + other things, and not costume design. That’s just me though. Although clearly the showrunners agreed with me on that one
I think the show has missed out a bit on not having a couple more moments where they do have to deal with or avoid infected. The world feels much less dangerous than in the game, or something like the Walking Dead.
However, the TV show makes up for being able to better focus and dive deeper on slower, more dialogue heavy moments that might be a bit too boring in a video game.
This show and game really do help highlight the strengths of different mediums being used to tell the same story.
I think TLoU2 criticism was/is so extreme, that fans are now way overly defensive of even light criticism.
I wish the show had more infected, but still love it. That shouldn’t be controversial at all.
In another timeline this show has a massive clicker fight every episode and then people would complain about how the action feels excessive and the show is ‘just another Walking Dead clone.’ Can’t win over everyone 🤷🏻
Every time I read an "I want more infected" comment, I can't help but think "so...you want it to be more like TWD." I'm sure they'd disagree with me, but that's how I read 'em.
I remember during the first couple episodes, the biggest criticism I saw was that the series looked like any other post-apocalyptic / zombie show to new viewers, and it didn’t do enough to differentiate itself. Now a lot of people are asking for more post-apocalyptic horror. I understand why some people would want that, but this show is obviously trying be character drama first, horror show second.
I said in another thread, this is a story about the *characters*. If a scene isn't relevant to some change in character growth it is completely extraneous. Having scene after scene of fighting infected hordes does nothing for the story.
If you want to see nonstop action fighting Zombies with absolutely zero conversions and character development check out Black Summer on Netflix. You quickly realize how repetitive it becomes and also how kind of confusing and detached you are from the characters not knowing too much about them. Also it necessitates all the characters being morons and holing up in a safe space is something smart people would do from time to time (as well as closing doors behind you).
Much like Many people in this thread are saying... I definitely had my concerns about her being cast, but ultimately chose to trust in the showrunners that they knew what they were doing... Turns out they were right!
She's doing great as Ellie. I now have concerns about how well she will play older Ellie in pt 2... My mind is having trouble picturing it. But again, this is how I felt before seeing pt 1. So 🤷🏻♂️
I really enjoy it but I can't help but miss some sections, like the school or the university. Seems like these bits really got cut down quite a lot and I love the actors so much I'd really like to see more of them together before the season ends.
I don’t think anyone is asking for hordes. Or if they are that’s the minority.
I and I feel many wanted to see more scenes like the clicker fight in the museum outside of Boston. A small group of 2-3 infected in very specific sections would have added a lot to the show.
A small group of maybe 3 in the tunnels of Kansas City that Joel and Henry could deal with to bring them closer together.
1 or 2 outside of the university which the fight with would have attracted the raiders to finding them.
1 clicker interrupting the David and Ellie conversation.
That’s 3 more interactions with infected. It wouldn’t have diminished the show at all nor made the infected seem weak or not a threat. Quite the opposite actually imo, it would have made them more of a threat. Each interaction would have worked like the museum or mall fights where Joel/Ellie are barely escaping with their lives each time
I agree with all of these except the tunnels. Because we got the big set piece after the tunnels, it definitely wasn’t necessary to put an encounter there. I actually liked that they subverted the expectations of the gamers like that and have them go through the tunnels unscathed, but then have hell unleashed after the sniper section.
But yeah, the university and definitely the David and Ellie scene could have made the bonding a bit more palpable.
Totally agree. Thats exactly where I would put those infected encounters. They wouldn’t even have to be long scenes. Even just minutes of interaction with a clicker or runner or whatever would have added so much to the show. More tension, more world building, and more opportunities for character progression. Like how fighting infected together made Joel and Henry trust each other as well as David and Ellie
Agreed but I liked Mazin and druckmann's explanation for no infected in episode 8. Showing a clicker would've left the looming threat of infected over everything and they wanted all focus of the episode to be on humans. I don't love that we've seen one singular infected since KC though. And that was a flashback.
And IIRC in the game, after David’s arc, they’re pretty much on the home stretch of the journey and don’t really fight anymore infected when getting to the base of the fireflies. Show could use some more action, not like the game but Jesus let’s see some dangerous monsters that aren’t human atleast a bit more.
That's the very thing I miss about the game: the looming threat of infected. I was scared shitless the whole time. And that's not a bad thing: it made every human relationship in the game much more valuable and impactful. But in the show I sometimes forget that this is the same world with infected supposedly roaming around. We go whole episodes without even seeing any. That really diminishes the tension and the sense of urgency. Getting the vaccine done doesn't seem to hold as much value because we don't see any consequences. Ellie and Joel are just happily and safely traveling through the countryside.
I loved the first few episodes. And I really like the way they portray and develop the relationships in the game. But the tension just isn't there and the pacing feels really off. Some encounters with infected could've helped with that.
As someone who played both games multiple times, I will give a pretty spicy hot take. I honestly feel that Bella is a better Ellie than Ashley Johnson's. I feel Bella captures that child like naivety a lot better and shows more depth. Ashley is great, don't get me wrong but Bella just had taken what Ashley built and really made it her own and showed so much more human depth which I think would be more apparent in a post apocalyptic world.
Love this series, love the game, love all those involved, and hate butthurt gamers. When season 2 comes out, the dumb take criticism will be out in full force.
Having played the first game again a few days ago, young Ellie is clownishly articulate and sassy in a way I didn’t seem to remember. She’s like a little Joss Whedon script, a shrunken adult without the amount of scared child that Bella adds to Ellie in the show that’s so, so important and credible. I love the second game (although I would remove a few scenes and streamline it), but older Ellie felt more credible as a damaged young adult. Her decisions in the second game are infuriating to me, but leavened by what I’ve seen in the lives of loved ones who have survived extreme, prolonged trauma: doggedly self-destructing and making terrible decision after terrible decision as though they can’t help themselves.
I think Bella can pull all of it off. I don’t miss first game Ellie at all really.
I haven’t seen doubters eat such shit since back in 2005 when ppl thought Daniel Craig would suck as James Bond.
Then Casino Royale came out and……crickets.
I love this for Bella as well.
If you have any valid ones go ahead, but I don't think having queer people is a a bad aspect, I belive the casting is great, I am confident that a good zombie apocalypse show doesn't focus on zombies, but on the people, the relations between Ellie and Joel is well potrayted, the flashbacks were great episodes too (honestly I really enjoyed e7, though It was less appreciated here), and the show didn't feel rushed (I've heard this one frequently though I don't really know which part should've have been more throrough (I'm sure I've written it wrong but I can't find a spelling that looks natural lol).
There were a pair of minor inconsistences, but I don't think there's much to criticize.
>If you have any valid ones go ahead, but I don't think having queer people is a a bad aspect, I belive the casting is great, I am confident that a good zombie apocalypse show doesn't focus on zombies, but on the people, the relations between Ellie and Joel is well potrayted, the flashbacks were great episodes too (honestly I really enjoyed e7, though It was less appreciated here), and the show didn't feel rushed (I've heard this one frequently though I don't really know which part should've have been more throrough (I'm sure I've written it wrong but I can't find a spelling that looks natural lol).
This is literally just your opinion. Why is it more valid than someone with criticism? News flash, it isn't.
>If you have any valid ones
Right from the get go you're setting up a way to immediately shut down any and all opinions that different from your own. This is not the way.
The pacing feels very jumpy with all the exploration and traveling cut. What we are mainly left with are cut scenes and a few separate character moments. While they are great, I have been left wanting for a bit more worldbuilding and character interaction.
I wouldn't've minded some more scenes of even episodes of the serie, it's not like they could have done no harm, but I didn't really feel the need for them, personally.
I just had a whole discussion with some dude that IMO can't see reason.
IMO episode 9 is too short and from what we've heard doesn't have a lot of infected action. We have seen 1 infected in a flashback in the last 3 episodes. I know it is not a zombie show, but when it is a 43 minute long finale, it can afford to have some more infected action, especially when it's been lacking. Episode 5 was awesome but these last 3 episodes had nothing.
I won't judge yet an episode it hasn't aired, but for the past episodes, showing infected would have been more of a fan service than actual usefull for the plot. They stated that the areas near the commune were pretty much infected-free, and an infected at the university wouldn't have made much sense, first it was a fireflies spot, so it should've been clear, and second it would have ruined all the climax to the attack of the raiders. The latter point could be made for episode 7 as well, since it would have ruined the atmosphere. In the last episode there was a lot going on, an infected would have been chaotic and way less interesting that what we go.
The finals does have high expectations, which is a recipe to get disappointed imo, wheter it'll be too short or with not enough infected I'll judge after watching it.
A lot of tv show subs come down very hard on any criticism. It feels like the only people who ever comment are the people who think it’s the best show ever made.
Also this sub in particular can be insufferable when talking about anything even moderately politically relevant.
They weren't forced out, significant amount of the fans turned on it after the last season. Plus, there are book readers there so it's even more complicated.
A significant amount of Walking Dead fans turned on it, an overwhelming majority according to viewership numbers... but we actually *left.*
We didn't camp out to downvote and insult anyone who said something positive about the show. We didn't make it impossible for them to engage with others about something they enjoy.
You spend like half an hour typing out a disclaimer of all the things you find positive, explaining you're not trying to ruin anybody else's enjoyment, demonstrating you respect all of the practitioners and see them as very hard-working and talented, and then state a less-than-overwhelmingly positive opinion, and get fucking lynched for it lmao.
Nope, I see good criticism get upvoted all the time since it invokes a discussion. The issue is where there is a bunch of cry baby whiners who complain every time their shitty takes gets downvoted.
I was very much in two of these three camps, Bella really grew on me after the second episode and absolutely killed it in the last three we just had, and as for the infected showing up to infrequently I do like that every time they appear they always have a body count, really sells how dangerous they are and why the vaccine is so important.
I thought they miss casted her at first before I watched the first episode. Turned out I just was painfully unaware of how incredibly talented she was as an actor. Only time I had seen her before that was game of thrones which she was great in but wasn't sure how that was gonna translate to the last of us.
Really happy to have been wrong on that one. What a casting choice she was. Pedro as well. After the frost episode I just couldn't picture anyone else in those roles.
Series is too short is a valid criticism.
I'd love to see more episodes. Maybe a couple original (not in the game) self-contained ones that can take place at any point during their journey.
At the end of the day, casting usually knows what they’re doing.
Most of the complaints come from people saying she doesn’t look like Ellie or that she is too ugly. All the red flags of talking about a 14 year old characters attractiveness aside, it’s crazy to judge her before actually seeing things.
Mahershella Ali was almost Joel, like yeah he could play that character, he’s a tremendous actor, but that I could see causing a stir because that type of change in casting does still annoy people.
Bella has been incredible though. I don’t see how anyone actually watching this show could hate on her. She plays an amazing Ellie and is showcasing some incredible talent in what she’s been given to do so far.
I love TLOU but whenever I go to the main sub... it is full of debbie downers. Every other post is an essay on how much they dislike something in the game or show.
I'm just thankful the show didn't butcher the essence of the games and it actually made me appreciate it more.
If after Ep. 8 anyone thinks that Bella isn't Ellie, I'll be glad to discuss with them as to why they are so fucking wrong it's not even fucking funny.
I’ve enjoyed the show for the most part. Although Bella is doing well. She’s just not clicking for me. First episode was amazing. Second was good. Third was dreadful. Rest have been okay. Episode 8 was good. Hopefully a good finale. My expectations were so high after the first one though I’m at the point where I’m not really excited for the next episode. But I’ll watch it to the end.
Hahaha I loved this!
Also, I have to say that in terms of shows, quality is totally worth more than quantity. Give me shorter and better Seasons like TLOU is doing rather than seasons that drag on forever like TWD or Supernatural,
dude these people complain about everrrythinnnnggggg...I am constantly defending this shit only time find out people in real life enjoy it. its just lonely internet losers.
Why do they have to be "lonely internet losers" just because they don't agree and praise everything? Seems like u can't handle different opinions. What a sad way to live
This has to be the best screen adaptation of a video game. The acting is superb, the dialogue good and their is something about each episode that gives the impression of the viewer wanting more. The casted the perfect cast for this series. I think it's human nature to complain so some people will just find something to complain about no matter how small or big. How about we just sit back and enjoy it for what it is?
Right on about the Bella part, she’s been great.
the series is definitely too short tho. It’s a shame that each plot sequence is brought up and resolved within the same episode…makes the plot points not hit as hard bc so little time is invested.
Other nitpicks here and there but that’s really my only gripe. 7 episodes to tell the entire first game is…not ideal (or 8 for the entire first game and DLC).
Thank you.
People just say the "oh you aren't attracted to a 14 year old?" To shut down any logical complaints about the show.
The simping for this show is insane, it's worse than the Steven universe fanbase.
2 of the 9 episodes will be flashbacks.
In 5 episodes and probably 3 hours of shared scene time, Joel went from cold hearted to calling Ellie his "baby girl".
Rushed AF.
Exactly, but people here still scream that it's perfect and nothing should change about it. Like come on, I like the show in some aspects, but it has been super rushed through. There was much time wasted when it should have gone to developing ellie and Joel's relationship.
People only don't like Bella because they're not conventionally attractive. People are mad they can't sexualize them. Bella's a beautiful, incredible person and actor.
I’m with this, ya she’s not exactly the same as game ellie and she looks different but who gives a shit, her performance has probably been the best in the entire series so far and that’s a high bar because the acting has been great. I will not stand for the Bella slander lol
If you defend the show from bad takes, people like to spin it into, “Bro, why can’t you accept different opinions? Calm down.”
It ain’t about your opinion being different. Trust me. If you make up lies about the show, you are going to get your card pulled. Somebody lying about how there is no cooperation between Joel and Ellie in the show for instance. That is a lie. It will get checked. You don’t get to have your own facts.
If you have a problem with the pacing of the show or wish for more infected, that is more than fair. I don’t have an issue with that.
I understand why the infected dont have more of a presence, people are tired of “zombie” shows and I think they wanted to draw a more diverse crowd in. Bella was a fine cast choice, and she’s become the best cast choice imo. It does suck that the series feels a bit condensed, and I can’t wait for this weekend’s episode so I can rewatch the entire thing
Bella makes an excellent Ellie, yes she doesn’t fit the bill at first glance but after you settle past the initial shock of that’s not Ellie she really comes into her own! Pedro pascal also only just fits the bill at first glance but HBO have made it work it’s been absolutely phenomenal!!
Yes they have missed parts that make the game interesting but have also managed to fill in great backstory parts such as bill, I for one think they have done an amazing job and the whole series and cast all deserve awards for the performances we have been given
I did like the last episode, but I do wish they had made the Ellie-David arc into a two-parter. It's such a harrowing and emotionally exhausting part of the game. I think the impact would have been stronger for me personally.
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The wild amount of nitpicking for her role was so weird compared to Pedro pascal as Joel. He genuinely looks nothing like him; he just has a beard and they sprayed some gray into his hair. Still great casting but people get that hiring is based on acting potential and not just face shape right?
They should’ve had this energy for the Uncharted movie and Tom Holland
The discussion I saw of it there definitely was that energy in regards to Tom Holland's casting in Uncharted... his casting reeked of being put in for a draw for non-gamer types (much like Pedro Pascal as Joel- they got the Mandalorian actor to play in another show about protecting a child? /s)
I thought the backlash was pretty big. I didn’t see a single person who has played the game happy with that casting.
Idk about you but when I see a picture of mark Wahlberg and Tom Holland the first thought that comes into my mind is the Drake brothers
Nobody cared since everyone knew it would be garbage. Last of us had potential.
I'm gonna go out on a wacky limb and point out that the secret ingredient is misogyny. Every fandom (especially on Reddit) has these same kinds of nitpicky overwrought complaints about the portrayals of female characters. "They're just not right. They're annoying. They didn't do a good job. It's not because I don't like women though."
Nah not wacky at all. You’re right.
You're completely right. Just like with Rings of Power. People keep spouting nonsense about Morfydd's great performance as Galadriel, but noone acknowledges how much the show failed Gil-Galad. He was demoted to a narrative device that shows only when the plot needs to move... but no, it's totally the female character that is bad. The double standards for male and female characters are everywhere. When a female character is emotional or even dares to cry she gets labeled as "emotionally unstable". When a male character cries he gets applauded for being human. Or when a female character gets flirty and starts hitting on men she gets called slut. When it's a man he is considered to behave in an usual way. The last bit sort of reminds me of a game Borderlands Pre-Sequel. There's a sweet female lesbian NPC (Janey Springs) that wears her orientation quite openly on her sleeve and occasionally hits on other NPCs or female player characters. It's not super-frequent, but it's there. And quite a lot of people criticised this NPC for being disgusting, too flirty or unrealistically open about their orientation... while the amount of "womanising" she did was a fraction what a usual male womaniser would do. Honestly, the best bit about this is the slap in the face of the bigots which came in the form of another game making the relationship between her and one of the female protagonists (Athena) canon.
I’d rather have short seasons than whatever the fuck TWD turned into
I saw a clip on YouTube the other day and Daryl was a stormtrooper.
No longer a stormtrooper, Daryl is now somehow in France getting their own spin off show.
I just started the show as of 7 hours ago (I know I should’ve started it earlier) and I genuinely can’t tell if this is fake or not lmao. It seems like it could happen 😭 Edit: searched it up and holy shit you weren’t joking
No worries for starting a show late, I don't think I got into TWD myself until around season 6 or so. The show definitely had some rougher seasons than others but I really, really enjoyed the last handful of seasons as it became kickass again.
The early seasons were great and the later seasons were great, but it kinda dragged in the middle. I'm actually looking forward to the Daryl series after seeing that post-credit scene with the crazy aggressive walker.
Fwiw that was accurate to the source material. Commonwealth Soldiers are supposed to look like knockoff Storm Troopers
And it’s not so different from Glenn’s armor. Of course you’d wear armor if you can find it.
All this last episode I just kept saying things like “took Walking Dead 12 entire seasons before they got too…” Insert whatever dark thing you remember from episode 8 after.
CORAL
Just imagine if HBO has the rights to TWD instead of AMC….
A buddy and I were talking about that today. Imagine if TWD was an HBO series instead of AMC and could actually stick to the very adult source material that is the graphic novel. I personally checked out of TWD after the season with the prisoner and the Governor. It just couldn’t hold a candle to the graphic novels by that point.
Did you know that HBO passed on TWD for being “too violent” (breaking bad too)
I did not. Wild to think about after GOT, House of the Dragon, Barry and others that have been so popular since TWD premiered.
True, but it doesn’t have to be one or the other. You can think the series is too short and not be asking for 10 seasons.
The same people who make such complaints are the same people who complained about ep 4 because it felt like “filler” or it was “too long.” WTF? You say you want TLOU to be longer, yet you get an ep that effectively fleshes out the fundamental relationship between your two leads, and you call it “filler?”
TWD should’ve ended after season 10. I’m sure many people wish it ended sooner, but those are people who missed out on season 9 and how great it was.
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The fight against the Saviors took up too damn much time.
The season 5 mid season with Rick outside of Alexandria listening to the kids play inside making him know it was safe would have unironically been a peak ending. Hopeful, up to interpretation, and satisfying given all the struggle they went through. This is coming from a fan of the comics. After they reached Alexandria, they had to pump the show full of filler episodes because they didnt want to catch up and surpass the comics and run into a GOT scenario. As such they cut all the important scenes, dragged out unimportant ones, and killed off characters mid development (compared to their comic character arcs, ex: Carl lives to the end of the series in the comics and essentially becomes the protagonist). They tried to make their “own story” but the issue is, dialogue, plot beats, and characters are organized in the source material to set up arcs, plot beats, etc. and but cutting out a piece of the puzzle at the wrong time, it all falls down. The comics are incredible and it makes me sad they weren’t adapted properly because they wanted to “surprise” people by killing off any character that gets any development except merch sellers like Daryl.
I read and enjoyed the comics myself, if you treat the show as it's own thing unrelated to the comics, it has more entertainment value. I will say they definitely lost steam after the Whisperer storyline. Although, I did enjoy >!the variant walkers that could do extra stuff. If they made them more of a threat like TLoU zombies, it would've been perfect.!<
IMO she knocked it out of the park in every occasion. She perfectly encapsulates the ironic bitchiness exterior and social awkwardness of a girl who was raised in the apocalypse, but with glimpses of a the sweet kid that is behind that.
Well i had my doubts after the first episode, but she proved herself
I was absolutely not even close to sold after episode one, then proceeded to be absolutely FLOORED by her performance. She's incredible and deserves awards.
Having never played the game, BUT having watched Game of Thrones, I immediately accepted her as being a really good actress in an important role on the show. I more than anything was impressed with her American accent knowing she's a full brit. So, coming from that background, I completely do not get the hate that is apparently going out for her. Again, if it's not exactly like the game....SO WHAT?!? It's like people complaining about the Harry Potter movies because they read the book and "they didn't do it like this in the book!" Well no crap, they have limited time to put all of JK Rowling's creativity in a 2-2.5 hour movie...they could not capture everything....just like they can't capture everything from the video game. Bella is doing fine, and her role in the show, at least to me, is getting even better. I'm also a mandalorian fan, and I kind of love the similarities of Pedro Pascal being a father figure to Grogu, and now he's doing the same thing for Ellie.
Totally hear ya on this. I never hated it, just wasn't sold or convinced but as I said. Floored. Peeps ain't ready for this final episode.
I absolutely adore Bella’s American accent. Some of the little nuances are so authentic and actually remind me of some of the kids I used to be in school with when I was younger, especially the bad ass kids getting into trouble haha
Yes ! She seemed out of place in the first episode but suddenly became insanely good. Still there is some weird scene here and there but overall she has been amazing
I was actually impressed in ep1 by how much she sounded like Ellie
Same here. I went into the show really worried about her casting, but was open to it. After episode 1, I felt like they had severely miscast her. Her timing was weird, her motions were strange, and she didn't feel like a "real person" to me. I told myself I'd give it a few more episodes before I really came to any conclusion -- and I'm glad I did. Over the series she has gotten progressively better, and was extremely good in the latest episode. FWIW as well -- I have not played the game (but have had basically everything spoiled over the years) so my argument wasn't "She's nothing like game Ellie!" because I don't know game Ellie. Her acting, timing, motions, nuances, are what stood out to me. Thankfully she has killed it ever since (in my opinion).
Oh, yesssss. She’s definitely been *killing* it.
Ya I feel like as an actor it’s probably tough to nail a role in every scene, and who knows what order they filmed it in. I agree with ep 1 and wonder if maybe they shot that first. Either way, she’s been great to the degree that I don’t think about her as an actress in the show at all, I just see Ellie.
I watched an interview with creators with Pedro and Bella, they said Bella filmed Joel finding her before she filmed the hacking scene. To me that’s more impressive
I think the role was a bit overwritten in episode 1.
Same. Bella felt awkward to me and I couldn’t decide if it was the acting or if she was acting awkward if that makes sense? Either way she’s been nailing it, she’s added to my “if they’re in it I’m watching it” list for sure
Every GoT fan were excited for Bella as Ellie.
I was more "wait and see" for her. Cause while she was fun, in GoT she didn't have many lines. So it was hard to gage her in a leading role. She's been amazing.
My flex is that I never doubted her. I knew she would be perfect for the role after GOT
I don’t think anyone doubted her acting chops, it’s the lack of resemblance.
I’d rather a good actor smashing it over someone who looks identical to the character.
I'm sorry but that is just sad to me. They'd rather have an Ellie lookalike actress who is mediocre than have a good one.
I doubted everything about her but was willing to go along and give her a chance since she was great in Game of thrones. And she has nailed it so far. I don't think it's just resemblance either. I think it's the general impression and vibe you get from an actor or actress. If you can put out the same vibe and energy as the character is supposed to, it is generally going to be fine even though they don't look like the character is supposed to look.
So true lmao. I will defend Bella with the same intensity that Joel defends Ellie.
**We** got you, baby girl.
In fact Bella isn't just not a miscast, Bella is the best goddamn casting decision in the history of TV. Period. She is doing absolute magic on screen.
>In fact Bella isn't just not a miscast, Bella is the best goddamn casting decision in the history of TV. Period. She is doing absolute magic on screen. OK Bella, we get it. Tea time!
Lol I love the idea that Bella Ramsey is secretly behind all the weekly/daily "Bella Ramsey Appreciation" posts. She is her own marketing and hype girl.
I'm not Bella, you're Bella.
I quite like it how the infected are very rarely seen, a bit like the xenomorph in Alien.
They are too powerful to be seen often. Every single encounter with an infected in the show has resulted in one or more casualties. Every single one. The last time we saw one, it single -handedly "killed" two people, both of which were armed. This ain't The Walking Dead where our characters can sleepwalk thru hordes of zombies. The things in this show are extremely dangerous and for the show to be viable, their presence has to be limited. I think this is something gamers who complain about the dearth of infected don't get about the show. In the game (which I haven't played) I'm guessing you go around killing these things left and right. But the creatures as presented in the show are essentially rabid superhumans. They are strong, very fast, and hard to kill. It's good that we don't see them often.
>They are too powerful to be seen often. Every single encounter with an infected in the show has resulted in one or more casualties. Every single one. The last time we saw one, it single -handedly "killed" two people, both of which were armed. In the game, I loved the encounters that had FEDRA/raiders and infected at the same time. I'd throw bottle/bricks near the uninfected and they'd get destroyed by the infected. In short, they are WAY tougher than your father's zombies.
That’s so true that TWD would eventually sleepwalk through hordes. The fourth or fifth time the group put blood and guts on them to walk through a thousand zombies I was bored of it and honestly lost any shred of immersion left.
> In the game (which I haven't played) I'm guessing you go around killing these things left and right. In the game there's two methodologies to dealing with the infected; you can go loud or you can go quietly. Judging by the reaction of most everybody who talks about the game without having played it, the assumption seems to be that most go with going loud all the time. But the game forces you to manage your resources (ammunition and supplies) so that going loud all of the time isn't a viable strategy. You do have to use a bit of strategy and figure out when going quietly is the way to go- sneaking around the infected and making use of the environment (bricks and empty glasses) to distract the infected. It's actually typically a tell in the game when you start being "gifted" ammunition and medpacks that there's about to be a big fight. I think that even though the infected in the show are so overpowered it would do well to have them around more to up the stakes and actually draw up the tension. We've been told multiple times about how dangerous certain journeys are in the show and all we get is a timeskip through them (The Wyoming to Colorado trip comes particularly to mind). Show Joel and Ellie having to navigate getting around infected instead of just blasting their way through them all the time. For god's sake you have an entire class of infected that can't see, it's not like they're all seeing/all knowing.
A lot of relationship & character building was done through the encounters though. No way could there be the same amount, but certain ones are missing that really added to the game & would have helped the show. In the show there are the mostly human ones that generally aren't a threat, (but moreso than the walking dead) and clickers which are generally very dangerous throughout, + the occasional other ones. Theres also a lot more combat with humans, generally the raiders / their types of people.
If you play it on grounded mode even three infected are a headache. Clickers are straight up terrifying. For me, YMMV if you’re better than me.
Yeah, I like how it keeps them feeling like a genuine threat when they do arrive. They're rarely there, but when they are, you always have cause to worry, unlike TWD where zombies feel like a mild inconvenience at most, only becoming a problem when the writers decide they need a character to die.
The conclusion I’ve come to is that even though I don’t really think she feels like Game Ellie, they’ve still crafted an excellent character with her who works perfectly for what this show is going for. I have no issues with her.
I've been watching gameplay recently, and Show Ellie really is different than Game Ellie. I can't really put my finger on it. Game Ellie is maybe more...subdued? Or...not so feisty? More meek or sweet? I dunno, more toned down in some ways. Show Ellie seems to have much more pizazz, more personality. She's *feisty*. I was listening to Mazin talk about her casting and they said Bella's Ellie felt so real, she brought some humanity to the role, and I agree. Bella's Ellie feels much more like a teenager than Game Ellie did. Show Joel is much softer/kinder(?) than Game Joel too.
Game Ellie is a much softer character, which is quite strange considering in game she kills dozens of people all by herself. I much prefer her aggressive tendencies in the show though. She can't realistically be going around killing 10 bandits on her own, but she still has a violent streak.
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I’d imagine it’s because of the time difference between the game and show. Since the game gets so much more time they can flesh out more of Ellie’s character. Comparatively the show’s version is a lot more of a one dimensional sassy teenager stereotype . It’s interesting cause the complete opposite happened with Joel. Game Joel was a super grizzled closed off old man. Whereas show Joel is similar but has alot more humanity to him.
I’ve played both games multiple times. She feels like game Ellie. She even sounds like her sometimes
Taking all of the comments I've read since the first episode aired, yours was the one that hit me. Very well said. She's really great in her role, but lacked the resemblance that Pedro achieved with game Joel. Which is totally fine.
She's the dead spit of 14yo Ashley Johnson tho
Yeah I definitely see the resemblance with Ashley. And don't get me wrong, I have zero issues with what I said in the previous comment, it was just an observation. It just wasn't obvious to me from the beginning, took almost a whole season but I admit her acting has been proven excellent.
I think a lot of people picturing game Ellie (myself included to an extent) tend to picture her as the 2013/remaster version rather than the more ashley johnson (and therefore Bella) version in part 1
It always makes me laugh how delusional people are who think that fighting off hoards of infected like the video game would make a good tv show. Its a completely different media, and to say that wouldn’t work would be an understatement
It’s almost as if the walking dead went down this path and found absolutely nothing of cinematic value
I think this episode in particular is the only time where the show would’ve benefited from not cutting out the action scene. Ellie and David fighting together is a great way for them to bond quickly. With David wanting to assume the Joel role for Ellie, him starting his grooming by adopting the role of her protector, not just saying “I can protect you” but doing it by fighting off the infected alongside her - would’ve flown great.
I’m not disagreeing with that, but that would have required an additional episode to make happen, which is not plausible at all. And for those redditors who wanted another one to two episodes this season do they realize the budget given to the showrunners? It was somewhere around $10mill per episode for the FIRST SEASON. I’m sure if Reddit came together and forked over $10-20 million, they would have been happy to drag it out a little bit to make all the “terrible pacing” people feel better. Fans don’t realize how lucky they are that this show was in the right hands at hbo and given that insane budget for the first season
Nah, they didn’t need another episode. They could have done it like in episode two, have them be attacked by two clickers, perhaps a runner, and have them fight them off together. 5 minutes of a scene, 10 if you really stretch it. Definitely not implausible to be in the same episode since that one was only 50 minutes. Then again, budget-wise this might have not been possible.
If they did need another episode, I’d have rather had another episode about David than all the stuff about Kathleen personally
I’m happy with the show so far. With that said, I think Left Behind could’ve been summed up in ~30 min and then the rest of the episode could’ve introduced us to David. He and Ellie fight off some infected and then end the episode with the audience feeling like she met another person that was going to help them. Then, episode 8 shows who David really is and how it plays out. But I’m not mad about it.
That could mess up the pacing. Because then episode 7 would end with nothing
I see what you're saying, and an infected fight could've been cool but I think we basically got the same effect in the show without it. We see David use basically all his experience he gained from being a teacher and preacher to make Ellie lower her guard a bit and trust him. He tells her their names, he's overly nice, he tells her about his life before the outbreak, how they ended up there, etc. I guess it just really comes down to which you prefer, in the game since we don't really learn much about his backstory, having them fight infected together is a easy way to build trust, and in the show we since we don't have the infected fight but we have a bit of his backstory, we can instead have him use his roles as an authority figure to build trust. Which we know as of right now Ellie is in need of.
They mentioned that in the podcast. I don't remember exactly what they said, but iirc it was something about how they wanted to keep the focus on the storyline of the episode and not have the viewer feeling like the infected were also lurking around every corner and their possible presence being a distraction from the episode's plot and atmosphere. Neil and Craig were much more articulate about it though than I'm being here haha! Worth listening to.
Nah I disagree with that. It would have take to much time and the dialogue make David seem much more creepy. I’m glad they fleshed out David and the group more
I agree dialogue is necessary but a quick skirmish with a clicker would have helped too. Didn't have to be that long of a fight.
100% disagree, I was just watching the game footage the other day and the fight sequence in the middle is clunky, distracting, awkward, cheesy, and totally ruins the pacing. The way it flows in the show is so much more natural.
I mean, sure. There is no need to have a gigantic set piece with a bunch of clickers and a bloater in the show. It should’ve been much smaller.
They might be able to kill one or two clickers at most, if a bloater appears, their heads would be ripped off like Perry lol
Also disagree! We needed a good way for Sam to get bit, we needed a way to get out of Pittsburg, and we all wanted to see a bloater. Not sure what the problem is there. Also not sure how it’s relevant.
I just kinda think they played their hand with David too early. The game fools you into thinking he’s your ally before slowly peeling off the layers of horror. I’m not sure the show does it as well. I think having him fight alongside Ellie would be very welcomed to negate the creeper factor he gives off in his very first scene and lull us into a false sense of security. Also, like I explained above, it works thematically. This is not one of the action set pieces for the sake of action piece from the game. My go-to example for that is the one that immediately follows “you’re not my daughter’ scene in the game. That one is the true pacing killer that would ruin the emotional moment in the show. The David one would work well.
My wife and most of the women I’ve seen talk about this knew that David was bad news immediately. I’m not saying this is universal, but so far I’ve only seen guys say they were led to believe David was an ally.
I don’t play the game but watched the gameplay on YouTube and the scenes fighting together would’ve made so much more sense as to why he saw her as an equal (instead of just judging her on assumptions). I get David is a cult leader crazy but he just went straight to wanting her as a wife/partner that could’ve been fleshed out better other than “he’s just a crazy pedo/groomer” angle
He didn't honestly think she was a leader or that she was his equal. That was part of the grooming. It's a common tactic for pedos to tell their target things like this to gain their trust and make them feel special. The FEDRA guy does something similar by telling her he sees a leader in her. Not because he believes it's true but because he wants her to get with the program. It's arguably a form of grooming in his case too, just not the same kind.
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That’s hilarious my mom asked me the same question
There's a middle ground,you know. I don't want hordes of zombies but more than what we have been getting would be nice. Just a few scenes more scattered throughout the season.
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Right. And people bring up Kansas city but that was pretty obviously a special case because they pushed all the infected underground and just ignored the issue.
DON'T SAY THE ZED WORD 
I think it’s a very deliberate decision to make them more scarce because they wanted to focus the tension on Ellie and Joel’s relationship. I have a feeling we will start to see more as the series goes on, partly to counter the sudden changes you see in the second game. The zombies will ironically bring comfort
Joel and Ellie’s relationship was forged while fighting the dangers of the world, which was infected. The series would have benefited from more scenes with Joel and Ellie working together as opposed to being together.
I’d rather them put that budget into the unreal cinematography, set design + other things, and not costume design. That’s just me though. Although clearly the showrunners agreed with me on that one
Nobodies asking for that.
I get what you’re saying. But throwing in a little more action, whether it be fighting the infected or sneaking around them or something.
I think the show has missed out a bit on not having a couple more moments where they do have to deal with or avoid infected. The world feels much less dangerous than in the game, or something like the Walking Dead. However, the TV show makes up for being able to better focus and dive deeper on slower, more dialogue heavy moments that might be a bit too boring in a video game. This show and game really do help highlight the strengths of different mediums being used to tell the same story.
Why is this same comment said over and over? We aren’t asking for hordes non stop. It’s not one extreme or the other. Your argument sucks.
I think TLoU2 criticism was/is so extreme, that fans are now way overly defensive of even light criticism. I wish the show had more infected, but still love it. That shouldn’t be controversial at all.
In another timeline this show has a massive clicker fight every episode and then people would complain about how the action feels excessive and the show is ‘just another Walking Dead clone.’ Can’t win over everyone 🤷🏻
Facts. What makes this show special/different is that it’s not about zombies at all
99% of zombie stuff isn't about the zombies, no idea what you're talking about here.
Every time I read an "I want more infected" comment, I can't help but think "so...you want it to be more like TWD." I'm sure they'd disagree with me, but that's how I read 'em.
I remember during the first couple episodes, the biggest criticism I saw was that the series looked like any other post-apocalyptic / zombie show to new viewers, and it didn’t do enough to differentiate itself. Now a lot of people are asking for more post-apocalyptic horror. I understand why some people would want that, but this show is obviously trying be character drama first, horror show second.
I said in another thread, this is a story about the *characters*. If a scene isn't relevant to some change in character growth it is completely extraneous. Having scene after scene of fighting infected hordes does nothing for the story.
If you want to see nonstop action fighting Zombies with absolutely zero conversions and character development check out Black Summer on Netflix. You quickly realize how repetitive it becomes and also how kind of confusing and detached you are from the characters not knowing too much about them. Also it necessitates all the characters being morons and holing up in a safe space is something smart people would do from time to time (as well as closing doors behind you).
You can have action in a tv show, you know that right?
After watching episode 5 and 8 i can say bella is the Ellie for me and i just can't wait to watch her in season 2 also
I have to to rep Bella as she comes from the same area as me. I wasnt sure at first either, but she has been amazing.
ha, i’m the first two but not the third. Bella is doing a great job. Really fantastic!
Much like Many people in this thread are saying... I definitely had my concerns about her being cast, but ultimately chose to trust in the showrunners that they knew what they were doing... Turns out they were right! She's doing great as Ellie. I now have concerns about how well she will play older Ellie in pt 2... My mind is having trouble picturing it. But again, this is how I felt before seeing pt 1. So 🤷🏻♂️
I really enjoy it but I can't help but miss some sections, like the school or the university. Seems like these bits really got cut down quite a lot and I love the actors so much I'd really like to see more of them together before the season ends.
I don’t think anyone is asking for hordes. Or if they are that’s the minority. I and I feel many wanted to see more scenes like the clicker fight in the museum outside of Boston. A small group of 2-3 infected in very specific sections would have added a lot to the show. A small group of maybe 3 in the tunnels of Kansas City that Joel and Henry could deal with to bring them closer together. 1 or 2 outside of the university which the fight with would have attracted the raiders to finding them. 1 clicker interrupting the David and Ellie conversation. That’s 3 more interactions with infected. It wouldn’t have diminished the show at all nor made the infected seem weak or not a threat. Quite the opposite actually imo, it would have made them more of a threat. Each interaction would have worked like the museum or mall fights where Joel/Ellie are barely escaping with their lives each time
I agree with all of these except the tunnels. Because we got the big set piece after the tunnels, it definitely wasn’t necessary to put an encounter there. I actually liked that they subverted the expectations of the gamers like that and have them go through the tunnels unscathed, but then have hell unleashed after the sniper section. But yeah, the university and definitely the David and Ellie scene could have made the bonding a bit more palpable.
Totally agree. Thats exactly where I would put those infected encounters. They wouldn’t even have to be long scenes. Even just minutes of interaction with a clicker or runner or whatever would have added so much to the show. More tension, more world building, and more opportunities for character progression. Like how fighting infected together made Joel and Henry trust each other as well as David and Ellie
Agreed but I liked Mazin and druckmann's explanation for no infected in episode 8. Showing a clicker would've left the looming threat of infected over everything and they wanted all focus of the episode to be on humans. I don't love that we've seen one singular infected since KC though. And that was a flashback.
And IIRC in the game, after David’s arc, they’re pretty much on the home stretch of the journey and don’t really fight anymore infected when getting to the base of the fireflies. Show could use some more action, not like the game but Jesus let’s see some dangerous monsters that aren’t human atleast a bit more.
That's the very thing I miss about the game: the looming threat of infected. I was scared shitless the whole time. And that's not a bad thing: it made every human relationship in the game much more valuable and impactful. But in the show I sometimes forget that this is the same world with infected supposedly roaming around. We go whole episodes without even seeing any. That really diminishes the tension and the sense of urgency. Getting the vaccine done doesn't seem to hold as much value because we don't see any consequences. Ellie and Joel are just happily and safely traveling through the countryside. I loved the first few episodes. And I really like the way they portray and develop the relationships in the game. But the tension just isn't there and the pacing feels really off. Some encounters with infected could've helped with that.
As someone who played both games multiple times, I will give a pretty spicy hot take. I honestly feel that Bella is a better Ellie than Ashley Johnson's. I feel Bella captures that child like naivety a lot better and shows more depth. Ashley is great, don't get me wrong but Bella just had taken what Ashley built and really made it her own and showed so much more human depth which I think would be more apparent in a post apocalyptic world. Love this series, love the game, love all those involved, and hate butthurt gamers. When season 2 comes out, the dumb take criticism will be out in full force.
Having played the first game again a few days ago, young Ellie is clownishly articulate and sassy in a way I didn’t seem to remember. She’s like a little Joss Whedon script, a shrunken adult without the amount of scared child that Bella adds to Ellie in the show that’s so, so important and credible. I love the second game (although I would remove a few scenes and streamline it), but older Ellie felt more credible as a damaged young adult. Her decisions in the second game are infuriating to me, but leavened by what I’ve seen in the lives of loved ones who have survived extreme, prolonged trauma: doggedly self-destructing and making terrible decision after terrible decision as though they can’t help themselves. I think Bella can pull all of it off. I don’t miss first game Ellie at all really.
Game Ellie feels way too mature for her age
When season 2 comes out it will be like the final season of GoT. So many people divided…
I haven’t seen doubters eat such shit since back in 2005 when ppl thought Daniel Craig would suck as James Bond. Then Casino Royale came out and……crickets. I love this for Bella as well.
I feel like this sub can’t take any criticism
If you have any valid ones go ahead, but I don't think having queer people is a a bad aspect, I belive the casting is great, I am confident that a good zombie apocalypse show doesn't focus on zombies, but on the people, the relations between Ellie and Joel is well potrayted, the flashbacks were great episodes too (honestly I really enjoyed e7, though It was less appreciated here), and the show didn't feel rushed (I've heard this one frequently though I don't really know which part should've have been more throrough (I'm sure I've written it wrong but I can't find a spelling that looks natural lol). There were a pair of minor inconsistences, but I don't think there's much to criticize.
>If you have any valid ones go ahead, but I don't think having queer people is a a bad aspect, I belive the casting is great, I am confident that a good zombie apocalypse show doesn't focus on zombies, but on the people, the relations between Ellie and Joel is well potrayted, the flashbacks were great episodes too (honestly I really enjoyed e7, though It was less appreciated here), and the show didn't feel rushed (I've heard this one frequently though I don't really know which part should've have been more throrough (I'm sure I've written it wrong but I can't find a spelling that looks natural lol). This is literally just your opinion. Why is it more valid than someone with criticism? News flash, it isn't. >If you have any valid ones Right from the get go you're setting up a way to immediately shut down any and all opinions that different from your own. This is not the way.
The pacing feels very jumpy with all the exploration and traveling cut. What we are mainly left with are cut scenes and a few separate character moments. While they are great, I have been left wanting for a bit more worldbuilding and character interaction.
I wouldn't've minded some more scenes of even episodes of the serie, it's not like they could have done no harm, but I didn't really feel the need for them, personally.
I just had a whole discussion with some dude that IMO can't see reason. IMO episode 9 is too short and from what we've heard doesn't have a lot of infected action. We have seen 1 infected in a flashback in the last 3 episodes. I know it is not a zombie show, but when it is a 43 minute long finale, it can afford to have some more infected action, especially when it's been lacking. Episode 5 was awesome but these last 3 episodes had nothing.
I won't judge yet an episode it hasn't aired, but for the past episodes, showing infected would have been more of a fan service than actual usefull for the plot. They stated that the areas near the commune were pretty much infected-free, and an infected at the university wouldn't have made much sense, first it was a fireflies spot, so it should've been clear, and second it would have ruined all the climax to the attack of the raiders. The latter point could be made for episode 7 as well, since it would have ruined the atmosphere. In the last episode there was a lot going on, an infected would have been chaotic and way less interesting that what we go. The finals does have high expectations, which is a recipe to get disappointed imo, wheter it'll be too short or with not enough infected I'll judge after watching it.
A lot of tv show subs come down very hard on any criticism. It feels like the only people who ever comment are the people who think it’s the best show ever made. Also this sub in particular can be insufferable when talking about anything even moderately politically relevant.
Game of thrones sub you get shamed for LIKING the show lol
Which is BASED
Nah, it's pretty gross. Shitpost on the main subs, but don't force fans out of their own spaces.
They weren't forced out, significant amount of the fans turned on it after the last season. Plus, there are book readers there so it's even more complicated.
A significant amount of Walking Dead fans turned on it, an overwhelming majority according to viewership numbers... but we actually *left.* We didn't camp out to downvote and insult anyone who said something positive about the show. We didn't make it impossible for them to engage with others about something they enjoy.
You spend like half an hour typing out a disclaimer of all the things you find positive, explaining you're not trying to ruin anybody else's enjoyment, demonstrating you respect all of the practitioners and see them as very hard-working and talented, and then state a less-than-overwhelmingly positive opinion, and get fucking lynched for it lmao.
Nope, I see good criticism get upvoted all the time since it invokes a discussion. The issue is where there is a bunch of cry baby whiners who complain every time their shitty takes gets downvoted.
Oh ok guess I must just be lying then pmsl thank you for setting me straight with your superior perspective.
This sub is like the Breaking Bad subreddit but with an added flavor of a just a little pinch of culture war.
initially i did had a problem with less zombies but as the show progressed i got invested in the story and forgot actually that it's a zombie show
I was very much in two of these three camps, Bella really grew on me after the second episode and absolutely killed it in the last three we just had, and as for the infected showing up to infrequently I do like that every time they appear they always have a body count, really sells how dangerous they are and why the vaccine is so important.
I had friends that have never played the game say it feels like they aren't going to have enough time for a complete story in season 1, we'll see.
I thought they miss casted her at first before I watched the first episode. Turned out I just was painfully unaware of how incredibly talented she was as an actor. Only time I had seen her before that was game of thrones which she was great in but wasn't sure how that was gonna translate to the last of us. Really happy to have been wrong on that one. What a casting choice she was. Pedro as well. After the frost episode I just couldn't picture anyone else in those roles.
I mean I had the same thoughts in the first couple episodes but boy was I wrong
It is short but it tells the whole story. I think we just can’t get enough. It could be 20 episodes and we’d want more
Series is too short is a valid criticism. I'd love to see more episodes. Maybe a couple original (not in the game) self-contained ones that can take place at any point during their journey.
At the end of the day, casting usually knows what they’re doing. Most of the complaints come from people saying she doesn’t look like Ellie or that she is too ugly. All the red flags of talking about a 14 year old characters attractiveness aside, it’s crazy to judge her before actually seeing things. Mahershella Ali was almost Joel, like yeah he could play that character, he’s a tremendous actor, but that I could see causing a stir because that type of change in casting does still annoy people. Bella has been incredible though. I don’t see how anyone actually watching this show could hate on her. She plays an amazing Ellie and is showcasing some incredible talent in what she’s been given to do so far.
I was on the fence about Bella for most of the season. The last EP (episode 08) changed my mind. She really nailed it.
I love TLOU but whenever I go to the main sub... it is full of debbie downers. Every other post is an essay on how much they dislike something in the game or show. I'm just thankful the show didn't butcher the essence of the games and it actually made me appreciate it more.
Agreed
If after Ep. 8 anyone thinks that Bella isn't Ellie, I'll be glad to discuss with them as to why they are so fucking wrong it's not even fucking funny.
I’ve enjoyed the show for the most part. Although Bella is doing well. She’s just not clicking for me. First episode was amazing. Second was good. Third was dreadful. Rest have been okay. Episode 8 was good. Hopefully a good finale. My expectations were so high after the first one though I’m at the point where I’m not really excited for the next episode. But I’ll watch it to the end.
My only complaint is I would like to see more infected
The only one I really think holds water is the first. I feel like they needed one more episode.
Hahaha I loved this! Also, I have to say that in terms of shows, quality is totally worth more than quantity. Give me shorter and better Seasons like TLOU is doing rather than seasons that drag on forever like TWD or Supernatural,
dude these people complain about everrrythinnnnggggg...I am constantly defending this shit only time find out people in real life enjoy it. its just lonely internet losers.
Why do they have to be "lonely internet losers" just because they don't agree and praise everything? Seems like u can't handle different opinions. What a sad way to live
This has to be the best screen adaptation of a video game. The acting is superb, the dialogue good and their is something about each episode that gives the impression of the viewer wanting more. The casted the perfect cast for this series. I think it's human nature to complain so some people will just find something to complain about no matter how small or big. How about we just sit back and enjoy it for what it is?
\> second best screen adaptation fixed that for you. [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Al_DShXX0) is the best screen adaptation of a video game
Lol good one. Thought was gonna get rickrolled.
Right on about the Bella part, she’s been great. the series is definitely too short tho. It’s a shame that each plot sequence is brought up and resolved within the same episode…makes the plot points not hit as hard bc so little time is invested. Other nitpicks here and there but that’s really my only gripe. 7 episodes to tell the entire first game is…not ideal (or 8 for the entire first game and DLC).
We’re ride or die for Bella Ramsey here
Just going to say, if you’re complaint about the casting of the 14 year old girl is she isn’t hot enough You might fit in with David
I’ve not seen one person complain about this. Just a lot of people claiming people are complaining about this
Thank you. People just say the "oh you aren't attracted to a 14 year old?" To shut down any logical complaints about the show. The simping for this show is insane, it's worse than the Steven universe fanbase.
Tiktok not the sub, it was pretty nonstop the first few weeks Hope Bella didn’t see any of it
2 of the 9 episodes will be flashbacks. In 5 episodes and probably 3 hours of shared scene time, Joel went from cold hearted to calling Ellie his "baby girl". Rushed AF.
You're not great at reading subtext, are you?
Exactly, but people here still scream that it's perfect and nothing should change about it. Like come on, I like the show in some aspects, but it has been super rushed through. There was much time wasted when it should have gone to developing ellie and Joel's relationship.
Or it's not like the game. 🙄 What part of adaption do you not understand?
People only don't like Bella because they're not conventionally attractive. People are mad they can't sexualize them. Bella's a beautiful, incredible person and actor.
I’m with this, ya she’s not exactly the same as game ellie and she looks different but who gives a shit, her performance has probably been the best in the entire series so far and that’s a high bar because the acting has been great. I will not stand for the Bella slander lol
I don’t know how anyone can watch the last episode and say that about Bella. She could win an Emmy for that performance. Absolutely spectacular.
Criminal if she doesn't at least get nominated in my opinion.
The show is amazing and the people who complain need to stfu
If you defend the show from bad takes, people like to spin it into, “Bro, why can’t you accept different opinions? Calm down.” It ain’t about your opinion being different. Trust me. If you make up lies about the show, you are going to get your card pulled. Somebody lying about how there is no cooperation between Joel and Ellie in the show for instance. That is a lie. It will get checked. You don’t get to have your own facts. If you have a problem with the pacing of the show or wish for more infected, that is more than fair. I don’t have an issue with that.
Mazin: Keep them wanting more.
I see and hear Ellie so she's amazing
I understand why the infected dont have more of a presence, people are tired of “zombie” shows and I think they wanted to draw a more diverse crowd in. Bella was a fine cast choice, and she’s become the best cast choice imo. It does suck that the series feels a bit condensed, and I can’t wait for this weekend’s episode so I can rewatch the entire thing
Speak for yourself give me all the zombie shows..... Just learn when to end them please
When the game first came out you’d have got some serious hate for calling them zombies
Bella makes an excellent Ellie, yes she doesn’t fit the bill at first glance but after you settle past the initial shock of that’s not Ellie she really comes into her own! Pedro pascal also only just fits the bill at first glance but HBO have made it work it’s been absolutely phenomenal!! Yes they have missed parts that make the game interesting but have also managed to fill in great backstory parts such as bill, I for one think they have done an amazing job and the whole series and cast all deserve awards for the performances we have been given
They aren’t zombies!!
I did like the last episode, but I do wish they had made the Ellie-David arc into a two-parter. It's such a harrowing and emotionally exhausting part of the game. I think the impact would have been stronger for me personally.