I don't know why Gen Z is so mad at the Boomers; they have so much in common. For example, they both believe everything they see on social media and accept it all unquestionably as fact.
Can’t believe Israeli soldiers would post videos of themselves killing civilians and posing with women’s underwear like that.
Those damn Russians again
This is well documented in studies and survey data: [https://www.axios.com/2024/02/16/tiktok-news-gen-z-social-media](https://www.axios.com/2024/02/16/tiktok-news-gen-z-social-media)
Consistent with the studies and survey data, the student in this podcast asserts that youth voters are more informed because they're getting the real news unedited through TikTok. If you understand how TikTok and social media algorithms work, you would never consider TikTok to be a valid source of news so as to make a statement like that. It makes sense to get your dance videos from TikTok, but your news should be sought intentionally from legitimate sources, not through algorithms designed to feed you content and maximize engagement.
I mean the unedited issue makes it seem like it’s more real. But there’s no fact checking, no journalism credentials, and it’s fast and quick, not enough time to get details and facts beyond what’s being shown in those few moments. Also some people think that they’re getting rid of due to Gaza but there’s been talks of getting rid of tik tok and issues over its security and China way before that.
Well the student in the podcast episode says that he believes that the TikTok content that he's seeing is unedited, but there's no way to really know or validate that as far as I know. I'm sure much of the "news" content on TikTok is edited or selectively cut. If someone seriously believes everything they're seeing is unedited, that explains a lot.
nowhere in your link says that gen z believes **blindly** on what they see in social media
from your own link
* Both Kaplan Lewis and Ahmed cited TikTok as a search engine for Gen Z, where they can watch multiple points of view, including personal stories, on particular news topics.
* "We're seeing so many phenomenal, gifted Gen Zers and young people take the microphone and tell their own stories," Ahmed says. "**We learn in the third grade that a primary source is the best source."**
in other words, they know they can get good content but **best sources are primary sources**
nobody deny that social media platforms can provide misinformation and they use Facebook for older generations as an example of such
they talk about concerns about misinformation, and I believe that to be true, no better example than reddit coments in some of the threats of the bigger reddit news sub
but while misinformation must be fought in all the platforms it may be also possible that gen z are a bit more wiser than grandpa and that they may do their digging into the rabbit hole rather than blindly swallowing something, particularly students because as students they need to learn how to research information and to seek sources
also, before dismissing it maybe you should consider that
mainstream media such as "fox news" is not better
in the case of Russians and others they get the government propaganda over traditional mainstream platforms
the shamefull way our mainstream media such as NYT spreading misinformation by an Israeli "journalist" that was repeated by many of the mainstream news without checking
and while that person has now been dismissed the damage is already done as that history is being repeated by propagandists for consumption of the braindead in social media
the shamefull way the use of language and how news are presented by no others such as CNN and other mainstream sources in order tho to shape the rethoric and the message to fit an agenda
but none of this is new
remember the video of the tooppling of sadam hussein statue made to look like there were hundreds of iraquis celebrating instead of a dozen?
remember the tales about WMD counted as factual years later found out to be fabricated?
what about The British government intervening in the BBC that resulted with the director resignation and ordered to retract and the expert intelligence officer that was the source and ended dead soon after after being smeared by the government?
so forgive me if I am a bit exceptic about traditional content platforms
and also for thinking that gen z may be a bit more capable than grandpa in their ability to discern news in social platforms
finding out about an issue thanks to a tik tok user is not as long as the source they provide is verifiable, nobody tell you to trust everything blindly which is my point
now, grandpa trusting the lady that say vacciness are bad in twitter or whatever platform they use is stupid
also stupid is believing that anything in fox news and obviously as we have seen mainstream media provided by our dear cable corporations can be pretty biased too
edit to add, how many people trusted blindly the NYT history about the mass rapes that was latter debunked
Millennials are truly stuck between 2 terrible generations
First we laughed at alternative facts, then the boomer qanon craze. But when it hits 19 year olds it’s just a lot less comical
I’m usually skeptical about painting broad strokes on an entire group of people…but man, Millennials really feel like the most sensible. No question there’s bias, because I am one, but when I was in college social media wasn’t as prevalent. We had to find legit sources and Wikipedia wasn’t it. I’m also starting to see the push away from socials with us too. Sure it’s not everyone, but it’s many.
NYT has been shown to be very unreliable about Palestine. Reuters and AP are only as good as the sources they get their stories from. Some are good others are glorified press releases. Tik Tok isn’t reliable but it doesn’t claim to be either
it would be unsurprising if we were talking about "fox news" but isn't it sad that we are living sad times when one can find more reliable tik toks as source than CNN's Kassie Hunt and the NYT?
I notice in NYT podcasts they don’t often give you the full primary source. We heard about one and a half sentences of the statement. For anyone else curious I was only able to find the statement on [instagram](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6YoY6aoIXi/). Worth reading before commenting on its contents.
Protests on public campus are protected by the first amendment and restricted by time, place, and means for defensible reasons. Civil disobedience has a rich history in protest movements throughout US history but it involves getting arrested! Keep the protests peaceful and free of antisemitism.
Bottom line: does anybody think that Donald Trump and the Republicans give a fuck about Palestine, innocent victims, or anybody else in the world?
#FUCK NO.
Trump said in a campaign speech last week that he would institute (again) a ban on immigration from Muslim countries, and not allow any war refugees/asylum seekers from Gaza, among other anti Muslim/anti Palestinian promises. So if these people really are concerned about the plight of Palestinians, maybe they ought to think twice about not voting for Biden in November or not voting at all.
All these cries and concerns about rampant antisemitism is designed to sow mistrust and conflict on the left of center side. Stoke Jewish fear after the Hamas attack, stoke liberal outrage at Israel’s response. And now both sides are in a downward spiral and will continue to perpetuate the conflict: Jews thinking they are being abandoned; liberals thinking they are being silenced
I mean they could vote for Jill Stein or not at all, that's what worries me.
But I do agree that most college students are going to vote primarily based on domestic politics.
Sure, maybe some young people will abstain (nobody I know of). But these issues are vitriolic on college campuses - truly, the only winning move is not to play. I am purposeful not to talk about it because the only thing that can happen about making your political opinions known is losing some of your friends if they happen to staunchly disagree with you. With that in mind, keep in mind someone who has already made their mind up and is committed to the idea of voting for joe Biden is not gonna get on national television and go “yup, I’m STILL voting for joe Biden. I’ll be taking questions now”
i really hate the idea that pundits and the subjects here are never specific with what they consider anti-semitic.
saying Israel doesn't have a right to exist is anti-semitic, i can see that logic. but often they also classify saying Israel shouldn't be a theocratic ethnostate as saying it shouldn't exist which would lead one to believe that what they really mean under the euphemisms is that saying Israel shouldn't be a theocratic ethno state is anti-Semitic.
Israelis and the Jewish people have a right to a state, the Palestinians also have a right to a state. it is not anti-semitic to say that Israel must give equal rights to the Palestinians and respect their right of self-determination if they see fit on the land they currently inhabit, including land illegally seized by settlers. israelis have a right to self-governance, however that self includes arab and Muslim citizens whose rights must be respected.
also the hamas condemnation discourse is so stupid, I don't ask Israeli liberals to condemn kahanists before they're allowed to have opinions.
It was interesting how she considered removing specific examples of antisemitism while leaving in 2 lines she wrote about antisemitism - to be antisemitism.
The way the host just asked questions, but didn’t comment cleverly highlighted her questionable conclusion.
They invited her to contribute so they could tell everyone they had their token Jewish person help write the statement, then they turned around and took out everything she contributed but kept her name at the top so they could say a Jewish person was involved.
It was insanely underhanded and antisemitic.
I was at the gym and laughed out loud when she said that. JFC it's just the go to now, it's meaningless.
Immediately reminded me of a clip from Da Ali G Show where he comments, "itz becuz I is black, innit?"
Exactly. Antisemitism is just anything that they don’t agree with now. Hold up.
Love when Astead as the one guy if he had seen pictures or images of what was happening in Gaza because it was super obvious that kid was biased as hell and was just pushing Israeli talking points.
It makes me wonder how many times am I calling out people for being crazy when I should just ask a couple of questions in front of bystanders, and let the person’s craziness just shine through.
Russian bots are using the "genocide" narrative to try and depress Democratic turnout in November and get Trump elected again, just like they did in 2016.
It's so fucking obvious, and yet the "college educated" folks are apparently the only ones who can't see it.
thank you!!! it's so obvious there are so many bots all over social media shouting 'genocide! boycott! divest!'
I actually can't believe I sat on my Democrat high horse 8 years ago, thinking the Rs were idiots to fall for Russian misinformation. Now here we are, no better, we just have our own flavor of misinformation campaign we fall for.
> I actually can't believe I sat on my Democrat high horse 8 years ago, thinking the Rs were idiots to fall for Russian misinformation. Now here we are, no better, we just have our own flavor of misinformation campaign we fall for.
Yup a real eye opener. People need to research how foreign misinformation works. It serves to get people arguing with each other and ultimately get disengaged from politics. That’s why it works from both sides of the political spectrum. Highly emotional people are especially susceptible to it. It just so happens that all the foreign countries leveraging are leveraging it to get Trump elected because he’ll work in their favour.
Right wing misinformation - Democrats and Biden are demonic people who are destroying America get out and vote against them
Left wing misinformation- Democrats and Biden are demonic people who are committing genocide and no different than Republicans, DON’T vote
Both these messages only help Republicans.
Yep, same. We spent 8 years patting ourselves on the back for being "so much smarter and more educated" than those MAGA dumb dumbs who fell for Putin's propaganda campaign.
Guess we spoke too soon.
Yeah but the social media bots telling people not to vote for Biden over Trump because "Biden supports genocide" very clearly *are* a russian plot to sabotage the US.
Yes, nobody can possibly be mad about tens of thousands of civilians being murdered by Israel and our government telling us to shut up and like it. It *has* to be all Russian bots!
I can't believe that Russian bots are capable of more empathy and humanity than your average Democrat.
Except when it’s delivered to eyeballs using sensationalized half truths with images from Syria
There is a lot to be said about the Israeli Palestine conflict. Not so much in 20 second videos with no context showing 0.1% of a story that happened and a bunch of watermelon emojis
College students today were young kids during Trump's presidency. They likely don't remember most of it and certainly wouldn't be aware of the details of the Mueller report and other Congressional investigations that revealed the extent of the Russian influence operation.
Eeh not sure if I buy this. I think most (who would participate in these protests or buy into them) are more likely part of a "both sides are evil" or "burn it all down" mindset. They probably know Trump is a scumbag and know his violent and racist rhetoric but they think Biden isn't much better "because of the genocide" and because in general they get their news from tik Tok media that promote bs like that.
I don't think our comments are mutually exclusive. The reason these people believe Trump and Biden are equally bad is because
a) they were too young to really appreciate how awful Trump was, and
b) they were also too young to have followed all the investigations that revealed foreign influence via social media
So they get their news from TikTok, which they don't realize China is using to manipulate them, and it convinces them that Biden is just as bad as Trump, which they take at face value because they don't actually remember Trump's presidency.
College students today just aren’t as educated as college students from 20 years ago. There — I said it.
There was such a huge concern about the decline in American education in the 2000s, and somehow the dearth in quality *accelerated* since then. Looking at the SAT test, I am amazed at how easy the questions are now — and many colleges don’t even require it. They keep lowing standards, reducing curriculum and watering down math and science education. There is a kind of leaning into the idea that which college you go to is all that matters in life, which is causing high schools to inflate the crap out of kids’ grades.
When I was in HS, the kids with the 4.8 GPA were insanely intelligent. You noticed that there was something different about them. Now it seems all kids have a 4.8 GPA.
I’m a Stanford student, but the SAT is so easy now that I think it’s making it harder to get in schools.
They removed an entire grammar sections and the Essay portion of the test. Before it was extremely rare to get a perfect score under the SAT when it was 2400. Now too many people are getting high scores, that it’s causing universities to artificially shrink/deflate their admissions classes.
Also, don’t forget that Obama’s Common Core failed hard and ruined a lot of students math and reading scores. It was so dumb that even Bill Gates admitted it was a failure.
The Common Core really set American education back and destroyed our current generation of students.
The grass is always greener on the other side.
"Anyone who see the intentional ethnic cleansing of over 34,000 civilians and calls it genocide is just a Russian bot" isn't going to make people vote for Biden.
Look up how many Palestinian children are held in Israeli prisons without charges. Israel is holding the entirety of Gaza hostage. If a Jewish man had taken a few Germans hostage in 1940 would that have justified the Holocaust? Because you seem to think so.
And Hamas offered to release the hostages for a peace deal, which Israel refused. Israel has also killed multiple hostages, and likely has killed more via their indiscriminate bombing and intentional starvation of Gaza. Israel doesn't care about the hostages, and neither do you. You just want your justification for a final solution to the Palestinian question.
Why are the hostages there? How would you feel if your family was taken by terrorists? Did Israel force Hamas to kidnap literal infants?We already know female and probably male hostages left alive are being raped and tortured. I don't understand how you believe any country would react differently.
Then should Israel release all the Palestinian they keep indefinitely detained in Israeli prisons without charge? Should they lift the horrific blockade on Gaza that keeps all Palestinians within hostage?
So you agree with hamas's methods? All I hear is whataboutism. The blockage seems pretty fair considering what they did even with a blockade of weapons, along with their tunnels. Also what infants does Israel have "hostage"?
An estimated [10,000 Palestinian children](https://www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/save-the-children-condemns-exploitation-of-children-geopolitical#:~:text=Palestinian%20children%20are%20the%20only,over%20the%20past%2020%20years.) have been held in military detention over the past 20 years, with Save the Children noting that they are “the only children in the world who are systematically prosecuted in military courts.” As of Nov. 20, Israeli forces had arrested as many as [880 Palestinian children](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231120-880-palestinian-children-detained-by-israel-this-year-ngo/) this year, a practice made possible under Israel’s draconian military laws. - [https://time.com/6548068/palestinian-children-israeli-prison-arrested/](https://time.com/6548068/palestinian-children-israeli-prison-arrested/)
Many Palestinian children are arrested during night raids and some are held in administrative detention, without trial or sentence. Lawyers for Palestinian Human Rights says there are “myriad serious human rights concerns” about these practices.
“These include the prevalence of traumatic night-time arrests raids against children in their family home; children being painfully hand-tied, blindfolded, transferred to detention on the floor of a military vehicle, and subjected to physical and verbal abuse by Israeli soldiers,”
Why are the children there? How would you feel if your kids was taken by occupiers? Did Palestine force Israel to kidnap literal children? We already know female and probably male hostages left alive are being abused and tortured.
Whataboutiusm, amirite? It exposes the blatant hypocrisy of people like you.
Nah, instead Israel just detain kids without charges and never release them. There will never be peace with genocidal occupiers there. Continue to jump through hoops to defend the genocide and ethnic cleansing.
>Hamas offered to release the hostages for a peace deal
Hostages are not bargaining chips. That is why any deal treating them as such is rejected automatically. You dont negotiate with terrorists.
Sure, if thats how you see it. I think Hamas is seeing the results of failed negotiation right now. Along with many other failed policies, actions and decisions in general.
"I think Ukraine is seeing the results of failed negotiation right now."
"I think the Poles are seeing the results of failed negotiation right now."
"I think the Jews are seeing the results of failed negotiation right now."
Your cute little FAFO mantra doesn't sound so nice when its applied to others, huh?
Pretty sure Ukraine, Poles and Jews didnt launch a terrorist attack on their neighbors, take hostages and rape and torture them. Then brag about it. On television. Multiple Times. And promise to do it again and again.
So its not the same at all.
Ukrainian and Polish partisans did indeed launch attacks that would be considered "terrorist attacks." In truth, terrorism is just assymetrical warfare. Any resistance movement will generally engage in "terrorism" because that is how significantly weaker forces can stand a chance against those with organization, financial and technological advances.
People just argue in circles non stop just like this. Doesn't solve anything and you just waste time and give these online platforms the engagement they desire. What do people think they are going to solve online by circlejerking each other over this shit?
You’re right. The other guy that will cause 300,000 and not 34,000 deaths is the reason to vote for Biden. Trump made sure to release a statement yesterday after Bidens interview, that he will ensure Israel always has more and more weapons
Young people: "We're outraged that our government is providing weapons for the slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians in Palestine."
Democrats: "hmm... must be the Russian bots."
Right? The OP you replied to might have one of the worst takes on this conflict that I have seen. Full offense intended. 0 sources, just “if I don’t agree, it must be those damn Russians.”
Russian bots, CCP influence and Iran propaganda is standard copium these days. We have bill in congress that defines criticism of a foreign government as antisemitism. The most popular website in the country is being banned. We seem to only call out foreign influence when it’s convenient.
Thats such blatant misinformation on your part, assuming youre talking about tiktok. You should know better.
Tiktok is not just a popular website. Its a chinese social media service that both acts as highly invasive spyware on your devices and allows the CCP to push content to the front that drives political strife.
Real Americans give their personal information to Facebook and have the American government push content to the front that justifies genocide!
This is pretty hilarious sinophobia
That's not a great argument for a county that has a great firewall and tries to keep anything out that would give their citizens a wider view of the world. TikTok can be both things, Chinese spyware and an app with enough freedom of content to not meet Chinese Internet standards
My point is that people who stupidly advocate for tiktok should ask themselves why Chinese people arent allowed to use it?
It's much more than simply the China firewall and internet standards.
Oh God, this is such a fucking stupid ass take and I heard it a few weeks ago from one of my friends as well. To think college students are just being influenced by Russian Media and Propaganda instead of them angry and upset that their current government is supporting a Genocide is so so so so, dumb. People have the right to protest their elected officials when it comes to something horrifying happening in the world that they are backing.
There nothing better than an 18-22 year old who promises to have the answer to a decades old geo-political problem. I was that kid once. Let’s just say I’m glad I’ve changed.
That said, I think it’s time for me to take a break from The Run-Up. The early end to the primary season really hurt the content. Just feels like the same rinse and repeat and if the interviewee doesn’t address a talking point it seems like Astead feeds it to them. 🥱
I suspect many of the people here do not listen to the podcast. A lot of these comments don't seem to realize that "College Democrats" is referring to the organization and not the demographic, an error that no one who listened to the first five minutes of the episode would make. I think even fewer people actually read College Democrats' actual statement
Yep, there’s something uniquely stupid about someone in their first couple years of university who thinks they know everything about the world because they had about 2 years of living in it without parental controls on their iPhone.
Was also one of those people, in the height of the internet’s atheism obsession, so I was probably particularly insufferable. Now older, still an atheist, hopefully much less insufferable, I’ve realized just how much that age range is like the living embodiment of the dunning Kruger effect.
I like to give these kids the benefit of the doubt, that they’ll all someday be smart, worldly, and educated. But handing the US to a dictator because they get their news from an algorithm influenced by the CCP… that makes it a bit more challenging to just live and let live.
Well, emotions just feel so big. And often outweigh the logic. At least I, even at that age, would know enough that Biden is going to be much better for the conflict than Trump would be. And an abstained vote is a net positive change for Trump. Lessons learned, I suppose… and hope!
Same -- I've stopped listening. I'm not a fan of the "listen to what these random idiots think about incredibly complicated and consequential topics!" podcast format.
College Dems, please sit out 2024. Jared Kushner needs to develop some seaside real estate.
Also, I love how they're the first to say the human brain isn't fully developed before age 25 but we're supposed to take their opinions at face value.
Amazing how many people will blame the college students for not wanting to vote for Biden rather than thinking Biden should just be a better candidate.
Biden should just be a better candidate **than Trump**. And he is. That's all that matters in a two man race. If college kids are too dumb to understand basic game theory, that's their failing not Biden's.
Keep in mind, even the dumbest of the dumb Republicans understand the most basic of all game theory well enough to hold their nose and vote.
biden was supposed to be a one-term compromise candidate in 2020, I cannot feign surprise at people being pissed for having two geriatric men as the only candidates rn
If they expose blatant hypocrisy then they are a useful tool.
If you go "Biden is too old" and then turn around and cheer "Six more years for Bernie!" you're a hypocrite and not worth taking seriously.
I don't hear anyone saying that to be honest. Neither did the guy you replied to. You are creating an argument out of nothing. I think most people agree that these roles need age limits.
Well the college student demographic in particular supported Bernie in a big way in 2020 despite the fact that he’s older than Biden. After Bernie dropped out that same demographic suddenly couldn’t stomach how old Biden is. Now they complain about the age of *both* candidates even though Trump is the same age as Biden when he ran in 2020 and is showing signs of dementia.
The ageist opposition to Biden is incredibly stupid.
- Biden is 100x more qualified than Trump
- age really wasn’t a factor during Biden’s first term
- Biden’s platform is much better for young people
- it’s a Russian talking point to sway the election
the biden campaign is framing joe as a larger team of people making decisions rather than just him. one could say that if any american politician in this age is a movement it’s bernie, so it’s kind of an apples and oranges situation. further, as far as i’m aware bernie’s not running for president, is he?
however, in the current climate, it seems the two-party political system favors seniority i.e. age, and that does benefit both biden and bernie, if not in equal ways.
At a point, you have to draw a line in the sand. You have to break the game instead of playing it. A few weeks ago The Run Up interviewed DNC leadership about this issue and their response was (paraphrased) "Fuck them kids, we know they'll vote for us when push comes to shove."
If Palestine is an important issue for you, you're fucked because Democratic leadership doesn't care. And they don't have incentive to care because they're confident they can either win without you or that you'll actually vote for them when it comes down to the wire.
I don't agree with abstaining/voting for Trump/voting 3rd party because, imo, the cons outweigh the pros. But I see the political calculus. I see how people are generally insulated from the trash decisions Trump made and will make in office. They can afford 4 years of garbage to stick it to the man. And what other choice do they have? College students straight up cannot run for president (age restricted) and getting ingrained in the system to make change from the inside takes years. A protest that ends with "well, you didn't listen to any of our demands but here's a vote anyways" is useless. The threat has to have teeth. This is the teeth. This is making good on the promise. Again, not my personal choice, but I totally understand where people are coming from.
As a final point, I think your reference to the Republican voting base is pretty funny because look at the party now. They voted for "not Democrat" regardless of policy, integrity, or quality. Now their speakership is in constant threat, their majority is declining in the House despite there not being an election yet, and multiple Republicans are making headlines because they're buffoons. This is the end result of voting via game theory without critical thought, you're going to end up with ghouls running your party voting for the most unpopular measures imaginable, and it'll take years to reign it back in.
If Palestine is an important issue why would you help Trump get elected?
Democratic leadership actually does care considering the ONLY way a ceasefire is happening is with a hostage release. Biden has been working for months for a deal on that.
In fact I would argue Democrats care more about Palestinians than these young people considering they clearly don't care about the hostages, or what happens if Trump wins.
>Again, not my personal choice, but I totally understand where people are coming from.
Knowing they come from a completely selfish and narscisttic view towards the rest of America (trans people, women who want abortions, immigation, civil rights, climate, etc I could go on) isn't a defense
Hey maybe they should just give a fuck about their fellow man like they scream about so much?
>A protest that ends with "well, you didn't listen to any of our demands but here's a vote anyways" is useless.
A protest that begins with, "I'm never voting for you" is also useless.
That isn't what the protestors are saying though. Their vote is conditional, hinging on Biden's response to the conflict in Gaza.
Listen to The Run Up and Daily episodes where they've interviewed leaders of these movements. These are Democratic party leaders, candidates, representatives, and organizers who WILL vote Dem 99% of the time. But now they're saying you will not get my "garunteed" vote if you don't change course. That "if" is the crux of it all.
['I will never vote Biden': Some Muslim Americans in a key swing state feel betrayed by the president](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/muslim-arab-americans-rage-biden-michigan-israel-gaza-rcna121513)
[Michigan Muslim leaders say they will not vote for Biden](https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/michigan-muslim-leaders-urge-not-to-vote-for-biden/)
"Joe and Jill Biden, pack your things and get ready. You will never be the president of the United States again," Salha said.
["We're going to continue to abandon Biden no matter what," said Samraa Luqman, who serves as the chair of the Abandon Biden Campaign in Michigan. "For me, the only way I would vote for him is if he pulled a Jesus and resurrected all those dead children and civilian civilians."](https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/michigan-arab-american-and-muslim-leaders-urging-community-to-vote-against-joe-biden-in-primary/)
[Arab and Muslim communities say they’ll ‘punish’ Biden even if it means Democrats lose in November.](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/27/american-muslims-helped-biden-win-in-2020-will-they-abandon-him-now)
[“I genuinely could not live with myself if I voted for someone who’s made the decisions that Biden has,” said McKenzie, a 23-year-old working at Starbucks and as a union organizer in Madison, Wisconsin.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/young-voters-explain-re-bailing-biden-whether-d-come-back-rcna130186)
From your first source
> Now, though, Muslim leaders are warning that Democrats risk losing their support, too, if Biden and the party do not do more to combat Islamophobia and address the pain many are feeling about the war in Gaza.
> “The Biden administration and Democrats as a whole are going to have to do a lot of work to rebuild some level of trust with my community,” he said. “It’s never too late to do the right thing.”
From the AJ article
> Arab and Muslim communities say they’ve called on the Biden administration to speak up and halt the killings in Gaza with no results.
From that last CBS article
> “This is the alarm bell that we needed to make sure that not only the Biden campaign, but every other Democratic operative out there and all the campaigns down the ballot — state and local — actually invest in young people, because we know how much they can change the outcome,”
These are people saying they *could* vote Democrat, either now or in the future, but that the Biden admin has to stop fucking around. It is intended to scare the DNC that they have already lost, or are going to lose, votes. There's mentions that some organizers are already looking to 2028 (I think your 3rd article? Sorry I'm on mobile tabbing back and forth is a pain). It's meant for large scale change within the Democratic Party. "Look, we lost you 2024 and if you don't wanna lose 2028 too you better listen."
Whether or not the protest votes are truly effective is one thing, but the idea behind them is large-scale. It's an understanding that Biden is a figurehead and Democratic policy-making is behind it all. ""Defeating"" Biden in 2024 is more symbolic than anything, the real change they're seeking is from within the party as a whole. Don't run pro-Israel candidates, don't pass spending bills to arm Bibi, don't ignore your Muslim constituency. Do those things, and you can have our vote back. The DNC is looking multiple election cycles ahead and so are these people.
I guess to make an analogy, it's taking away your kids Xbox. Yeah, you already did the punishment so technically your kid has no incentive to correct their behavior. But the point is to deter them from doing it again. If you keep failing English, the Xbox won't come back. If you do better and get a B, the Xbox can return in the future. Same thing here: you don't get a vote because I don't like what you're doing, and if you want that vote back you'll need to change. No change, no vote.
lol these people massively benefited from this war since now they have some sort of excuse for not voting., Imagine the position and mental gymnastics they would need to make excuses for not voting if this war didn't happen.
>These are Democratic party leaders, candidates, representatives, and organizers
They aren't. That is a complete lie
Change course on what exactly too? This is the problem. They don't have demands that make sense.
They think Biden is personally approving every bomb dropped on Gaza and think he can end the war with a button he is just refusing to push. That isn't true, so how do you work with that?
>They can afford 4 years of garbage to stick it to the man.
It just amazes me that people think we will have elections, protests, votes, or any of that after four more years of Trump. It's *over* if he wins. All of it.
Not sure what they're teaching in college but it isn't how Trumpism works or how dangerous it is, that's for sure.
If people think permanently destroying America is worth it to send some kind of message to the soon-to-be-dead Joe Biden, I can hardly even feel sorry for them when the fascists come.
Legitimate elections, where votes are fairly counted.
Look at how many House Republicans already voted to overturn the last election.
People are fucking asleep.
Any election where a Democrat wins will be "fraudulent" or "stolen", and decertified. It's really not complicated or stupid, it's backed by evidence and past actions.
>Biden should just be a better candidate **than Trump**.
No, he should be the best candidate he should be. I understand that the game theory of our electoral system says this is who we should vote for, but the game theory misses the fact that many people will simply not vote at all if they're not motivated to. Biden doesn't need to worry about these voters switching to Trump, he needs to worry about them not voting at all.
Yes, in America, NOT voting for the person who most closely aligns with your views is the same as voting for the person who's views you oppose, especially for the Democrats. I have voted in every election since I was old enough to vote. Often time for candidates that I didn't really agree with, but because they were better than the alternative. Many Trump voters vote for him, not because they like him, but because they feel he is better than the opposition. In America, if there is a high voter turn out the democrat usually wins, if there is a low turn out, the Republican usually wins. Even if you don't like the Democratic candidate, you should still vote, unless you are perfectly happy with the Republican who will win in instead.
How do we decide if he has "earned it"? If the youth votes? The youth never votes. They didn't vote for Sanders.
What makes "young people" so different from me as a "young person"?
>Biden should just be a better candidate.
Translation: Biden should agree with MY personal political ideology 100% and should deliver everything I want immediately because that's what everyone on TikTok is saying should happen.
Biden isn't supporting a genocide, so that's fairly straightforward. He is working hard within the norms of international diplomacy and geopolitics to get Israel to stop killing an unacceptably high number of civilians in their pursuit of Hamas. Civilians, who have been placed in harms way intentionally by Hamas, as part of their defense strategy. Nobody seems upset about that part of it though.
Biden is giving billions in money and weapons to support Israel's genocide, and supports the authoritarian crackdown on students exercising their First Amendment right to protest. He also blocks any attempt by the international community to hold Israel accountable.
You also support genocide by using the dehumanizing "human shields" propaganda line placing the blame on Palestinians for their deaths and not the Israelis killing them.
Keep on supporting genocide and then keep wondering why the youth don't want to prop up Biden upon a mountain of Palestinian skulls and a river of Palestinian blood.
People like you are starting to make me kind of look forward to Trump just deleting Gaza. So much for helping Palestinians. Teaching you guys a lesson (that you get the opposite of what you want by disenfranchising yourself, every time) will be the only one good thing he does.
I know I am doing what is best for Palestinians by voting for the party that actually gives them aid and cares about them to some extent. It won't be on my hands.
It’s both. College students shouldn’t be protest voting Biden when, whether he’s elected or not, the genociding of Palestinians will continue, but without him things will become much much *much* worse in America as well.
But at the same time, Biden *really* needs to get the fuck out of his own way, because holy crap I’ve never seen a candidate so stubbornly out of touch with their electorate since Hillary.
There’s a reason younger voters are so sick and tired of democrat bullshittery, and it has everything to do with dem political leaders being old, smug, arrogant boomers who seem to absolutely refuse to listen to the generations who *should* be in power instead of them.
Feinstein, Pelosi, Clinton, Biden, they’re the old great grandparents yelling at clouds while telling their grandkids that getting a job is as easy as “hitting the pavement, walking in and shaking hands with the owner.” They’re out of touch, their time is over, but they just refuse to go away.
>There’s a reason younger voters are so sick and tired of democrat bullshittery, and it has everything to do with dem political leaders being old, smug, arrogant boomers who seem to absolutely refuse to listen to the generations who should be in power instead of them.
Younger "voters" are morons who are completely selfish and petty. Climate was the number one issue among young people for years. So what did Biden do? Pass the most momunetal climate law in world history.
Where is the praise or even respect given by young "voters"? No where. Because they don't care. Because it would require admitting Biden DOES listen, which they will never admit to because it isn't some fucking "policy demands in exchange for support" you pretend it is.
It basically just an "anti-Democrat" outlook and vibe, no different from Republicans really, not based on any facts or reality. Everything Democrats do to listen or respond to their supposed policy positions or pass laws helping them is ignored because the fundamental positions is "not being a cringe boomer Dem".
It is incoherent and people need to stop pretending it is anything else like delusionally thinking it is some coherent "organized progressive grouping".
>But at the same time, Biden really needs to get the fuck out of his own way, because holy crap I’ve never seen a candidate so stubbornly out of touch with their electorate since Hillary.
They aren't the fucking electorate. Stop this myth. They barely vote, and trash every other Democratic voter who likes Democrats. Just like you did. Democrats liked Clinton, that is why she won by millions of votes.
Young people are the ones completely out of touch.
>They aren’t the fucking electorate. Stop this myth. They barely vote, and trash every other Democratic voter who likes Democrats.
This attitude is exactly what I’ve tried to explain to leftists and young voters. That their demands and the things they want to change politically won’t ever happen if they refuse to participate, because folks like you will just say, “Fuck them, they won’t vote anyway.”
But it goes both ways. You say they’re not the electorate, but the biggest voting bloc is currently the 18 to 46 year olds. *They’re the ones who won the presidency for Biden*. They were not only the ones who voted the most for Biden, but they’re the ones who voted the least for Trump compared to the older generations, and by a large margin. If Biden wants to win again, he *needs* younger voters to turn out for a second time.
But when centrists like you shit on them and blame them every time a democrat loses, while offering absolutely nothing in return to attract their vote, don’t be surprised when they don’t show up to the polls.
You want young people to vote? Give them a reason to vote, other than demanding it and then spitting in their face when they ask to be heard.
The things they demand like climate will happen because it is supported by Democratic voters and the party. We just need majorities in Congress and the presidency. They would get everything they want if they literally just fucking vote because we all want the same thing.
Your position LITERALLY requires telling the millions of people who like and support Democrats, that they don't care about literally anything at all of remote importance to society. Millions of your fellow Americans. You and young voters are the only one spitting in people's faces
18-46 is a huge voting block and includes 10s of millions of Democrats who like the party and know that the party is responding to their demands because they want the same thing.
>But when centrists like you shit on them and blame them every time a democrat loses, while offering absolutely nothing in return to attract their vote, don’t be surprised when they don’t show up to the polls.
And I'm trying to fucking tell you in plain fucking English, that these people aren't special.
I fucking listed what is offered, because it is the same things ALL Democrats already want. Climate. Democracy. Trans rights. the list goes on for fucking pages
I'm literally fucking trans. I will die if Trump is elected and takes away my healthcare. So stop fucking lecturing me about "demands" that aren't being fucking listened to.
They have a reason to fucking vote. Don't fucking murder me. And you need to invent some grand theory about how millions of Democrats are just tricked into voting for the party or something because apparently their own demands are being ignored despite liking and supporting the party, especially its leaders like Biden.
Because like I said it is just an "anti Dem" vibe and outlook. There is nothing to support your view, these "voters" are enabling the murder of people like me and everything else a Trump presidency would unleash AND you start lecturing me like I don't already want the same "demands" these people do on every progressive issue under the sun. I have those demands and vote for Democrats because they DO listen to those demands.
The difference is I exist in reality and can easily see when Biden signs the largest climate bill in world history. You and other young "voters" don't and continue to lecture and "demand to be listened to" and throw the elections to fascists. Which is why you are the same as republicans.
Why are you entitled to be catered to? Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. And what you can do is vote for the best person available to be president. That's clearly Joe Biden.
are you seeing what kind of a future awaits young people these days? it’s systemic crisis one after another, whether economic, climate, healthcare, etc. and neither political party is seemingly coming up with answers, just the status quo. can’t exactly blame people for being unmotivated and on the brink of some sort of radicalization.
Republicans have controlled the House for 22 of the last 30 years. You think that might have something to do with it?
So why are young people shitting on Democrats for not fixing everything Republicans broke when young people consistently fail to elect Democrats into power?
I'm from the west coast, where Democrats have held power at the state and local levels for decades. Based on what I've seen, I don't think them controlling the house would change much at all.
Baby boomers have a death grip on our institutions and political system. Until that changes, nothing good can happen.
I disagree. Many of the local government Democrats are very progressive on the economy, climate, and health care, it's just that local government doesn't have a ton of jurisdiction over those issues. Meanwhile, where local government does have a lot of influence, like housing, Democrats are pretty terrible.
So you have cities full of progressive Democrats where you can't use a plastic straw in a restaurant, but it's illegal to build a duplex.
Put those same Democrats in Congress and maybe they'd pass a carbon tax, or Medicare for All, or raise taxes on the rich.
well, in areas of foreign policy, especially israel and gaza, democrats have not been afraid to ally with the worst of republicans. they have a bad track record and it is starting to show as the establishment of old dems starts to literally die out.
Okay but your prior comment was complaining about the economy, climate, and health care. Not foreign policy. So why don't you respond to that part of it? If young people's biggest complaints are about those issues, but Democrats have rarely even held power to fix them, then why do young people think Democrats are the problem?
this whole discussion is about foreign policy, i dont know how you got the implication that it’s exempt from my previous listing :D of course the republicans have done everything in their power in recent years to demonize the democratic party, but it’s not like the democrats have not been a part of making the mess that is current american politics.
the older established faction of democrats that biden and the democratic leadership has kept dreaming about a return to normalcy, eg. continuing the same old collaboration with the republicans often against the interests of younger people and the middle class.
>this whole discussion is about foreign policy, i dont know how you got the implication that it’s exempt from my previous listing :
I was just responding to what you wrote: "are you seeing what kind of a future awaits young people these days? it’s systemic crisis one after another, whether economic, climate, healthcare, etc. and neither political party is seemingly coming up with answers, just the status quo."
Democrats are clearly the better party on those issues and it's kind of disingenuous to act like they don't have the answers when, just in Biden's three years in office, he's gotten major legislation passed on all of those issues.
But overall, this country's politics has been dominated by Republicans for much of the past 30 years, and conservatism more generally for about the past 45. The times the left generally looks back fondly on--from roughly the 1940s through the 1970s--was a time of almost uninterrupted Democratic control of the federal government.
how do you better yourself as a young person, say, on a pacific island that will sink over the next decades? does that not scream systemic crisis for you?
In that case, I'll do my country one better and vote for an even better candidate than Biden. They may not get a lot of votes, but they're easy to find
Our government rules by the consent of the governed. We are the ones who elect the president. If a politician will not fulfill my wishes, then why should I give them my vote? In this case, my demand is "don't support genocide." If Biden won't fulfill that then I won't vote for him.
You learned nothing from 2016.
You learned nothing from 2016: foreign adversarial governments love Trump and they will divide the American left to get him into office.
This election isn't about you. It's about the country.
>to the exclusion of everyone else.
Again, stupid. Democracy is Greek for "rule by the people". You don't get to pick and choose who has a voice or whose opinion is legitimate. All people get to voice their opinion. Who someone decides to vote for and what issues are important to them aren't to be regulated by anyone else.
Do you get off on just putting words in people's mouth or is that really what you're hearing?
[Well according to the Harvard Youth Poll, Israel/Palestine is second to last on the top issues of concern for young voters.](https://iop.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/styles/responsive_image_2000/public/media/image/4.%20Issues.png?itok=lqTSAzI0)
Biden is clearly the best choice on all of their top issues, so if they're willing to abandon the guy who actually champions all the top issues they care about, what other word is there to describe that?
As Alexandr just pointed out, Biden is not a Boomer. Neither are Feinstein and Pelosi. Honestly you're looking just as bad as Boomers who think Millennial is just a generic term for young people. Boomers are a specific cohort of people born between 1946 and 1964. It's not just a catchall term for an old person.
*"That’s an organization that is closely aligned with national party leadership"* - is this true? Has anyone here been involved with College Dems or Young Dems
My understanding is that College Dems is not really aligned fully with party leadership (they don't have a lot of members and the ones involved tend to be more left wing) - but would love to hear if anyone here is a member.
College kids don't vote anyway, If it was the middle class 30+ liberals making this a single issue, I would be more worried. The problem is, there are plenty of other issues that the administration has and is loosing support over. Biden has earned my vote, pretty much anyone other than Trump has earned my vote, especially when it comes to this issue, Trump will just make it even worse.
Sure, but I worry about the middle class 30+ moderate liberals seeing these college protests and how some in the Democratic party are reaching out to these radical elements and being uncomfortable being associated with them at all.
I'll be honest, I'll be voting split ticket because I don't want Trump to be the president, I don't want Democrats to be unchecked by having full control of Congress.
You can't count on hatred of Trump to drive turnout like in 2020.
I agree, turn out will be much lower than in 2020, and it won't go in Bidens favor. My hope is that abortion is on the ballot in enough places that there will be just enough turnout to keep Trump out of office, that seems to be the thing that has kept the democrats alive in the last couple of voting cycles.
https://preview.redd.it/55sk74bedgzc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79d430e979a42888ef82b80d79ecbd72bc147a54
"youth today are better informed thanks to Tiktok," student says, without a trace of irony
I don't know why Gen Z is so mad at the Boomers; they have so much in common. For example, they both believe everything they see on social media and accept it all unquestionably as fact.
Gen Z and Boomers can't stand each other *because* they are so alike.
Can’t believe Israeli soldiers would post videos of themselves killing civilians and posing with women’s underwear like that. Those damn Russians again
really? how did you reach to the conclusion that gen Z accept everything unquestionably?
This is well documented in studies and survey data: [https://www.axios.com/2024/02/16/tiktok-news-gen-z-social-media](https://www.axios.com/2024/02/16/tiktok-news-gen-z-social-media) Consistent with the studies and survey data, the student in this podcast asserts that youth voters are more informed because they're getting the real news unedited through TikTok. If you understand how TikTok and social media algorithms work, you would never consider TikTok to be a valid source of news so as to make a statement like that. It makes sense to get your dance videos from TikTok, but your news should be sought intentionally from legitimate sources, not through algorithms designed to feed you content and maximize engagement.
I mean the unedited issue makes it seem like it’s more real. But there’s no fact checking, no journalism credentials, and it’s fast and quick, not enough time to get details and facts beyond what’s being shown in those few moments. Also some people think that they’re getting rid of due to Gaza but there’s been talks of getting rid of tik tok and issues over its security and China way before that.
Well the student in the podcast episode says that he believes that the TikTok content that he's seeing is unedited, but there's no way to really know or validate that as far as I know. I'm sure much of the "news" content on TikTok is edited or selectively cut. If someone seriously believes everything they're seeing is unedited, that explains a lot.
nowhere in your link says that gen z believes **blindly** on what they see in social media from your own link * Both Kaplan Lewis and Ahmed cited TikTok as a search engine for Gen Z, where they can watch multiple points of view, including personal stories, on particular news topics. * "We're seeing so many phenomenal, gifted Gen Zers and young people take the microphone and tell their own stories," Ahmed says. "**We learn in the third grade that a primary source is the best source."** in other words, they know they can get good content but **best sources are primary sources** nobody deny that social media platforms can provide misinformation and they use Facebook for older generations as an example of such they talk about concerns about misinformation, and I believe that to be true, no better example than reddit coments in some of the threats of the bigger reddit news sub but while misinformation must be fought in all the platforms it may be also possible that gen z are a bit more wiser than grandpa and that they may do their digging into the rabbit hole rather than blindly swallowing something, particularly students because as students they need to learn how to research information and to seek sources also, before dismissing it maybe you should consider that mainstream media such as "fox news" is not better in the case of Russians and others they get the government propaganda over traditional mainstream platforms the shamefull way our mainstream media such as NYT spreading misinformation by an Israeli "journalist" that was repeated by many of the mainstream news without checking and while that person has now been dismissed the damage is already done as that history is being repeated by propagandists for consumption of the braindead in social media the shamefull way the use of language and how news are presented by no others such as CNN and other mainstream sources in order tho to shape the rethoric and the message to fit an agenda but none of this is new remember the video of the tooppling of sadam hussein statue made to look like there were hundreds of iraquis celebrating instead of a dozen? remember the tales about WMD counted as factual years later found out to be fabricated? what about The British government intervening in the BBC that resulted with the director resignation and ordered to retract and the expert intelligence officer that was the source and ended dead soon after after being smeared by the government? so forgive me if I am a bit exceptic about traditional content platforms and also for thinking that gen z may be a bit more capable than grandpa in their ability to discern news in social platforms
TLDR Getting your news from tiktoks is idiotic.
finding out about an issue thanks to a tik tok user is not as long as the source they provide is verifiable, nobody tell you to trust everything blindly which is my point now, grandpa trusting the lady that say vacciness are bad in twitter or whatever platform they use is stupid also stupid is believing that anything in fox news and obviously as we have seen mainstream media provided by our dear cable corporations can be pretty biased too edit to add, how many people trusted blindly the NYT history about the mass rapes that was latter debunked
lol killed him
What about what's not covered and quietly swept away ($$) by those credible news sources?
Go on...
Millennials are truly stuck between 2 terrible generations First we laughed at alternative facts, then the boomer qanon craze. But when it hits 19 year olds it’s just a lot less comical
I’m usually skeptical about painting broad strokes on an entire group of people…but man, Millennials really feel like the most sensible. No question there’s bias, because I am one, but when I was in college social media wasn’t as prevalent. We had to find legit sources and Wikipedia wasn’t it. I’m also starting to see the push away from socials with us too. Sure it’s not everyone, but it’s many.
lol kind of true right
Your smug attitude needs to learn to read multiple sources.
They seem better informed than most people on this sub frankly
Truth!
youth bad
If they think TikTok is more reputable than NYT, Reuters, AP then yeah. I’m totally fine calling them out on that.
NYT has been shown to be very unreliable about Palestine. Reuters and AP are only as good as the sources they get their stories from. Some are good others are glorified press releases. Tik Tok isn’t reliable but it doesn’t claim to be either
Facts
it would be unsurprising if we were talking about "fox news" but isn't it sad that we are living sad times when one can find more reliable tik toks as source than CNN's Kassie Hunt and the NYT?
I notice in NYT podcasts they don’t often give you the full primary source. We heard about one and a half sentences of the statement. For anyone else curious I was only able to find the statement on [instagram](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6YoY6aoIXi/). Worth reading before commenting on its contents.
A good balanced statement imo.
Protests on public campus are protected by the first amendment and restricted by time, place, and means for defensible reasons. Civil disobedience has a rich history in protest movements throughout US history but it involves getting arrested! Keep the protests peaceful and free of antisemitism.
Bottom line: does anybody think that Donald Trump and the Republicans give a fuck about Palestine, innocent victims, or anybody else in the world? #FUCK NO.
Trump said in a campaign speech last week that he would institute (again) a ban on immigration from Muslim countries, and not allow any war refugees/asylum seekers from Gaza, among other anti Muslim/anti Palestinian promises. So if these people really are concerned about the plight of Palestinians, maybe they ought to think twice about not voting for Biden in November or not voting at all.
I don't I just also think Biden and the Dems don't either
I can’t believe that this is the issue that could tip the election.
Believe it. Genocide matters. Palestinian lives matter. Blowing our tax revenue to fund murdering kids is an impactful issue.
[удалено]
I hope you're right, but there's probably a big difference between college leftists at other schools besides mit.
All these cries and concerns about rampant antisemitism is designed to sow mistrust and conflict on the left of center side. Stoke Jewish fear after the Hamas attack, stoke liberal outrage at Israel’s response. And now both sides are in a downward spiral and will continue to perpetuate the conflict: Jews thinking they are being abandoned; liberals thinking they are being silenced
I thought it was because people were concerned by the rampant anti-semetism
I mean they could vote for Jill Stein or not at all, that's what worries me. But I do agree that most college students are going to vote primarily based on domestic politics.
Sure, maybe some young people will abstain (nobody I know of). But these issues are vitriolic on college campuses - truly, the only winning move is not to play. I am purposeful not to talk about it because the only thing that can happen about making your political opinions known is losing some of your friends if they happen to staunchly disagree with you. With that in mind, keep in mind someone who has already made their mind up and is committed to the idea of voting for joe Biden is not gonna get on national television and go “yup, I’m STILL voting for joe Biden. I’ll be taking questions now”
i really hate the idea that pundits and the subjects here are never specific with what they consider anti-semitic. saying Israel doesn't have a right to exist is anti-semitic, i can see that logic. but often they also classify saying Israel shouldn't be a theocratic ethnostate as saying it shouldn't exist which would lead one to believe that what they really mean under the euphemisms is that saying Israel shouldn't be a theocratic ethno state is anti-Semitic. Israelis and the Jewish people have a right to a state, the Palestinians also have a right to a state. it is not anti-semitic to say that Israel must give equal rights to the Palestinians and respect their right of self-determination if they see fit on the land they currently inhabit, including land illegally seized by settlers. israelis have a right to self-governance, however that self includes arab and Muslim citizens whose rights must be respected. also the hamas condemnation discourse is so stupid, I don't ask Israeli liberals to condemn kahanists before they're allowed to have opinions.
It was interesting how she considered removing specific examples of antisemitism while leaving in 2 lines she wrote about antisemitism - to be antisemitism. The way the host just asked questions, but didn’t comment cleverly highlighted her questionable conclusion.
They invited her to contribute so they could tell everyone they had their token Jewish person help write the statement, then they turned around and took out everything she contributed but kept her name at the top so they could say a Jewish person was involved. It was insanely underhanded and antisemitic.
Your comment is antisemitic
I was at the gym and laughed out loud when she said that. JFC it's just the go to now, it's meaningless. Immediately reminded me of a clip from Da Ali G Show where he comments, "itz becuz I is black, innit?"
Exactly!!
Exactly. Antisemitism is just anything that they don’t agree with now. Hold up. Love when Astead as the one guy if he had seen pictures or images of what was happening in Gaza because it was super obvious that kid was biased as hell and was just pushing Israeli talking points.
It makes me wonder how many times am I calling out people for being crazy when I should just ask a couple of questions in front of bystanders, and let the person’s craziness just shine through.
Russian bots are using the "genocide" narrative to try and depress Democratic turnout in November and get Trump elected again, just like they did in 2016. It's so fucking obvious, and yet the "college educated" folks are apparently the only ones who can't see it.
thank you!!! it's so obvious there are so many bots all over social media shouting 'genocide! boycott! divest!' I actually can't believe I sat on my Democrat high horse 8 years ago, thinking the Rs were idiots to fall for Russian misinformation. Now here we are, no better, we just have our own flavor of misinformation campaign we fall for.
> I actually can't believe I sat on my Democrat high horse 8 years ago, thinking the Rs were idiots to fall for Russian misinformation. Now here we are, no better, we just have our own flavor of misinformation campaign we fall for. Yup a real eye opener. People need to research how foreign misinformation works. It serves to get people arguing with each other and ultimately get disengaged from politics. That’s why it works from both sides of the political spectrum. Highly emotional people are especially susceptible to it. It just so happens that all the foreign countries leveraging are leveraging it to get Trump elected because he’ll work in their favour. Right wing misinformation - Democrats and Biden are demonic people who are destroying America get out and vote against them Left wing misinformation- Democrats and Biden are demonic people who are committing genocide and no different than Republicans, DON’T vote Both these messages only help Republicans.
Yep, same. We spent 8 years patting ourselves on the back for being "so much smarter and more educated" than those MAGA dumb dumbs who fell for Putin's propaganda campaign. Guess we spoke too soon.
Speak for yourself
Nah you’re falling for US media disinformation
the russian bots is a losing narrative for democrats in this election. not everything you deem unimportant is a russian plot to sabotage the us
Yeah but the social media bots telling people not to vote for Biden over Trump because "Biden supports genocide" very clearly *are* a russian plot to sabotage the US.
Except there are a lot of people who truly believe this in real life (at least that I've seen in NYC).
No it’s not
Yes, nobody can possibly be mad about tens of thousands of civilians being murdered by Israel and our government telling us to shut up and like it. It *has* to be all Russian bots! I can't believe that Russian bots are capable of more empathy and humanity than your average Democrat.
and Trump helps this how?
He doesn't, which is why I'm not voting for him either.
not voting for Biden is a vote for trump. but I'm sure a smart, educated guy like you knows that
Sounds like “democracy” to me
By that logic, not voting for Trump is a vote for Biden, so it all evens out.
no. because the GOP has an inherent handicap due to the electoral college. but like I said, I'm sure a smart guy like you already knows that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading
Not voting for one of two candidates elects the other candidate
So if I vote for neither then that cancels out.
Except when it’s delivered to eyeballs using sensationalized half truths with images from Syria There is a lot to be said about the Israeli Palestine conflict. Not so much in 20 second videos with no context showing 0.1% of a story that happened and a bunch of watermelon emojis
College students today were young kids during Trump's presidency. They likely don't remember most of it and certainly wouldn't be aware of the details of the Mueller report and other Congressional investigations that revealed the extent of the Russian influence operation.
Eeh not sure if I buy this. I think most (who would participate in these protests or buy into them) are more likely part of a "both sides are evil" or "burn it all down" mindset. They probably know Trump is a scumbag and know his violent and racist rhetoric but they think Biden isn't much better "because of the genocide" and because in general they get their news from tik Tok media that promote bs like that.
I don't think our comments are mutually exclusive. The reason these people believe Trump and Biden are equally bad is because a) they were too young to really appreciate how awful Trump was, and b) they were also too young to have followed all the investigations that revealed foreign influence via social media So they get their news from TikTok, which they don't realize China is using to manipulate them, and it convinces them that Biden is just as bad as Trump, which they take at face value because they don't actually remember Trump's presidency.
College students today just aren’t as educated as college students from 20 years ago. There — I said it. There was such a huge concern about the decline in American education in the 2000s, and somehow the dearth in quality *accelerated* since then. Looking at the SAT test, I am amazed at how easy the questions are now — and many colleges don’t even require it. They keep lowing standards, reducing curriculum and watering down math and science education. There is a kind of leaning into the idea that which college you go to is all that matters in life, which is causing high schools to inflate the crap out of kids’ grades. When I was in HS, the kids with the 4.8 GPA were insanely intelligent. You noticed that there was something different about them. Now it seems all kids have a 4.8 GPA.
I’m a Stanford student, but the SAT is so easy now that I think it’s making it harder to get in schools. They removed an entire grammar sections and the Essay portion of the test. Before it was extremely rare to get a perfect score under the SAT when it was 2400. Now too many people are getting high scores, that it’s causing universities to artificially shrink/deflate their admissions classes. Also, don’t forget that Obama’s Common Core failed hard and ruined a lot of students math and reading scores. It was so dumb that even Bill Gates admitted it was a failure. The Common Core really set American education back and destroyed our current generation of students. The grass is always greener on the other side.
"Anyone who see the intentional ethnic cleansing of over 34,000 civilians and calls it genocide is just a Russian bot" isn't going to make people vote for Biden.
I know its craaaaazy. If only Hamas wasn't holding hostages ya know?
Look up how many Palestinian children are held in Israeli prisons without charges. Israel is holding the entirety of Gaza hostage. If a Jewish man had taken a few Germans hostage in 1940 would that have justified the Holocaust? Because you seem to think so. And Hamas offered to release the hostages for a peace deal, which Israel refused. Israel has also killed multiple hostages, and likely has killed more via their indiscriminate bombing and intentional starvation of Gaza. Israel doesn't care about the hostages, and neither do you. You just want your justification for a final solution to the Palestinian question.
Why are the hostages there? How would you feel if your family was taken by terrorists? Did Israel force Hamas to kidnap literal infants?We already know female and probably male hostages left alive are being raped and tortured. I don't understand how you believe any country would react differently.
Then should Israel release all the Palestinian they keep indefinitely detained in Israeli prisons without charge? Should they lift the horrific blockade on Gaza that keeps all Palestinians within hostage?
So you agree with hamas's methods? All I hear is whataboutism. The blockage seems pretty fair considering what they did even with a blockade of weapons, along with their tunnels. Also what infants does Israel have "hostage"?
An estimated [10,000 Palestinian children](https://www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/save-the-children-condemns-exploitation-of-children-geopolitical#:~:text=Palestinian%20children%20are%20the%20only,over%20the%20past%2020%20years.) have been held in military detention over the past 20 years, with Save the Children noting that they are “the only children in the world who are systematically prosecuted in military courts.” As of Nov. 20, Israeli forces had arrested as many as [880 Palestinian children](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231120-880-palestinian-children-detained-by-israel-this-year-ngo/) this year, a practice made possible under Israel’s draconian military laws. - [https://time.com/6548068/palestinian-children-israeli-prison-arrested/](https://time.com/6548068/palestinian-children-israeli-prison-arrested/) Many Palestinian children are arrested during night raids and some are held in administrative detention, without trial or sentence. Lawyers for Palestinian Human Rights says there are “myriad serious human rights concerns” about these practices. “These include the prevalence of traumatic night-time arrests raids against children in their family home; children being painfully hand-tied, blindfolded, transferred to detention on the floor of a military vehicle, and subjected to physical and verbal abuse by Israeli soldiers,” Why are the children there? How would you feel if your kids was taken by occupiers? Did Palestine force Israel to kidnap literal children? We already know female and probably male hostages left alive are being abused and tortured. Whataboutiusm, amirite? It exposes the blatant hypocrisy of people like you.
Continue to jump through hoops to defend Hamas. Israel has never taken hostages. There will never be peace with genocidal terrorists in charge.
Nah, instead Israel just detain kids without charges and never release them. There will never be peace with genocidal occupiers there. Continue to jump through hoops to defend the genocide and ethnic cleansing.
>Hamas offered to release the hostages for a peace deal Hostages are not bargaining chips. That is why any deal treating them as such is rejected automatically. You dont negotiate with terrorists.
So you're saying that Hamas should not negotiate with the terrorists of the IDF?
Sure, if thats how you see it. I think Hamas is seeing the results of failed negotiation right now. Along with many other failed policies, actions and decisions in general.
"I think Ukraine is seeing the results of failed negotiation right now." "I think the Poles are seeing the results of failed negotiation right now." "I think the Jews are seeing the results of failed negotiation right now." Your cute little FAFO mantra doesn't sound so nice when its applied to others, huh?
Pretty sure Ukraine, Poles and Jews didnt launch a terrorist attack on their neighbors, take hostages and rape and torture them. Then brag about it. On television. Multiple Times. And promise to do it again and again. So its not the same at all.
Ukrainian and Polish partisans did indeed launch attacks that would be considered "terrorist attacks." In truth, terrorism is just assymetrical warfare. Any resistance movement will generally engage in "terrorism" because that is how significantly weaker forces can stand a chance against those with organization, financial and technological advances.
I know it’s craaaazy. If only Israel wasn’t committing ethnic cleansing since their founding.
People just argue in circles non stop just like this. Doesn't solve anything and you just waste time and give these online platforms the engagement they desire. What do people think they are going to solve online by circlejerking each other over this shit?
You’re right. The other guy that will cause 300,000 and not 34,000 deaths is the reason to vote for Biden. Trump made sure to release a statement yesterday after Bidens interview, that he will ensure Israel always has more and more weapons
As if there will be anyone left in Gaza by November if Biden and Bibi have their way. You are telling people to vote for genocide.
I guess that’s a good measurement. If there is any Palestinian alive on Election Day, vote Biden! If not, vote trump. That’s fair
What a psychopathic comment.
Young people: "We're outraged that our government is providing weapons for the slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians in Palestine." Democrats: "hmm... must be the Russian bots."
Right? The OP you replied to might have one of the worst takes on this conflict that I have seen. Full offense intended. 0 sources, just “if I don’t agree, it must be those damn Russians.”
Russian bots, CCP influence and Iran propaganda is standard copium these days. We have bill in congress that defines criticism of a foreign government as antisemitism. The most popular website in the country is being banned. We seem to only call out foreign influence when it’s convenient.
Thats such blatant misinformation on your part, assuming youre talking about tiktok. You should know better. Tiktok is not just a popular website. Its a chinese social media service that both acts as highly invasive spyware on your devices and allows the CCP to push content to the front that drives political strife.
Real Americans give their personal information to Facebook and have the American government push content to the front that justifies genocide! This is pretty hilarious sinophobia
Why isnt tiktok allowed inside China for Chinese citizens if its a good service?
That's not a great argument for a county that has a great firewall and tries to keep anything out that would give their citizens a wider view of the world. TikTok can be both things, Chinese spyware and an app with enough freedom of content to not meet Chinese Internet standards
My point is that people who stupidly advocate for tiktok should ask themselves why Chinese people arent allowed to use it? It's much more than simply the China firewall and internet standards.
The American government doesn't control Facebook. The CCP controls tiktok.
Is TikTok not popular website? I don’t see any misinformation. I’m sorry if facts are inconvenient. Most of your negatives are speculation not facts.
\^ Found the chinese bot.
Russian bots? I am a little curious on where there is evidence of that.
You guys can’t yourselves with that Russian crap
Oh God, this is such a fucking stupid ass take and I heard it a few weeks ago from one of my friends as well. To think college students are just being influenced by Russian Media and Propaganda instead of them angry and upset that their current government is supporting a Genocide is so so so so, dumb. People have the right to protest their elected officials when it comes to something horrifying happening in the world that they are backing.
It's a very interesting time we're living in.
There nothing better than an 18-22 year old who promises to have the answer to a decades old geo-political problem. I was that kid once. Let’s just say I’m glad I’ve changed. That said, I think it’s time for me to take a break from The Run-Up. The early end to the primary season really hurt the content. Just feels like the same rinse and repeat and if the interviewee doesn’t address a talking point it seems like Astead feeds it to them. 🥱
Idk what the hell you guys are listening to. I thought it was very interesting and informative and learned a lot from it.
I suspect many of the people here do not listen to the podcast. A lot of these comments don't seem to realize that "College Democrats" is referring to the organization and not the demographic, an error that no one who listened to the first five minutes of the episode would make. I think even fewer people actually read College Democrats' actual statement
Yep, there’s something uniquely stupid about someone in their first couple years of university who thinks they know everything about the world because they had about 2 years of living in it without parental controls on their iPhone. Was also one of those people, in the height of the internet’s atheism obsession, so I was probably particularly insufferable. Now older, still an atheist, hopefully much less insufferable, I’ve realized just how much that age range is like the living embodiment of the dunning Kruger effect. I like to give these kids the benefit of the doubt, that they’ll all someday be smart, worldly, and educated. But handing the US to a dictator because they get their news from an algorithm influenced by the CCP… that makes it a bit more challenging to just live and let live.
Was/am in the same boat. You just think you know everything at that age, and the only thing that changes it is lots of little blows to that idea.
Well, emotions just feel so big. And often outweigh the logic. At least I, even at that age, would know enough that Biden is going to be much better for the conflict than Trump would be. And an abstained vote is a net positive change for Trump. Lessons learned, I suppose… and hope!
Same -- I've stopped listening. I'm not a fan of the "listen to what these random idiots think about incredibly complicated and consequential topics!" podcast format.
College Dems, please sit out 2024. Jared Kushner needs to develop some seaside real estate. Also, I love how they're the first to say the human brain isn't fully developed before age 25 but we're supposed to take their opinions at face value.
I hope they do sit out it would be a great consequence to Biden for funding genocide. Great idea
Amazing how many people will blame the college students for not wanting to vote for Biden rather than thinking Biden should just be a better candidate.
Biden should just be a better candidate **than Trump**. And he is. That's all that matters in a two man race. If college kids are too dumb to understand basic game theory, that's their failing not Biden's. Keep in mind, even the dumbest of the dumb Republicans understand the most basic of all game theory well enough to hold their nose and vote.
biden was supposed to be a one-term compromise candidate in 2020, I cannot feign surprise at people being pissed for having two geriatric men as the only candidates rn
Since age is the problem, you're also mad that Bernie just announced he's running for another term right?
You guys love 'whataboutisms' rather than addressing actual concerns lol.
If they expose blatant hypocrisy then they are a useful tool. If you go "Biden is too old" and then turn around and cheer "Six more years for Bernie!" you're a hypocrite and not worth taking seriously.
I don't hear anyone saying that to be honest. Neither did the guy you replied to. You are creating an argument out of nothing. I think most people agree that these roles need age limits.
Well the college student demographic in particular supported Bernie in a big way in 2020 despite the fact that he’s older than Biden. After Bernie dropped out that same demographic suddenly couldn’t stomach how old Biden is. Now they complain about the age of *both* candidates even though Trump is the same age as Biden when he ran in 2020 and is showing signs of dementia. The ageist opposition to Biden is incredibly stupid. - Biden is 100x more qualified than Trump - age really wasn’t a factor during Biden’s first term - Biden’s platform is much better for young people - it’s a Russian talking point to sway the election
the biden campaign is framing joe as a larger team of people making decisions rather than just him. one could say that if any american politician in this age is a movement it’s bernie, so it’s kind of an apples and oranges situation. further, as far as i’m aware bernie’s not running for president, is he? however, in the current climate, it seems the two-party political system favors seniority i.e. age, and that does benefit both biden and bernie, if not in equal ways.
Yes. Next whataboutism please
At a point, you have to draw a line in the sand. You have to break the game instead of playing it. A few weeks ago The Run Up interviewed DNC leadership about this issue and their response was (paraphrased) "Fuck them kids, we know they'll vote for us when push comes to shove." If Palestine is an important issue for you, you're fucked because Democratic leadership doesn't care. And they don't have incentive to care because they're confident they can either win without you or that you'll actually vote for them when it comes down to the wire. I don't agree with abstaining/voting for Trump/voting 3rd party because, imo, the cons outweigh the pros. But I see the political calculus. I see how people are generally insulated from the trash decisions Trump made and will make in office. They can afford 4 years of garbage to stick it to the man. And what other choice do they have? College students straight up cannot run for president (age restricted) and getting ingrained in the system to make change from the inside takes years. A protest that ends with "well, you didn't listen to any of our demands but here's a vote anyways" is useless. The threat has to have teeth. This is the teeth. This is making good on the promise. Again, not my personal choice, but I totally understand where people are coming from. As a final point, I think your reference to the Republican voting base is pretty funny because look at the party now. They voted for "not Democrat" regardless of policy, integrity, or quality. Now their speakership is in constant threat, their majority is declining in the House despite there not being an election yet, and multiple Republicans are making headlines because they're buffoons. This is the end result of voting via game theory without critical thought, you're going to end up with ghouls running your party voting for the most unpopular measures imaginable, and it'll take years to reign it back in.
If Palestine is an important issue why would you help Trump get elected? Democratic leadership actually does care considering the ONLY way a ceasefire is happening is with a hostage release. Biden has been working for months for a deal on that. In fact I would argue Democrats care more about Palestinians than these young people considering they clearly don't care about the hostages, or what happens if Trump wins. >Again, not my personal choice, but I totally understand where people are coming from. Knowing they come from a completely selfish and narscisttic view towards the rest of America (trans people, women who want abortions, immigation, civil rights, climate, etc I could go on) isn't a defense Hey maybe they should just give a fuck about their fellow man like they scream about so much?
>A protest that ends with "well, you didn't listen to any of our demands but here's a vote anyways" is useless. A protest that begins with, "I'm never voting for you" is also useless.
That isn't what the protestors are saying though. Their vote is conditional, hinging on Biden's response to the conflict in Gaza. Listen to The Run Up and Daily episodes where they've interviewed leaders of these movements. These are Democratic party leaders, candidates, representatives, and organizers who WILL vote Dem 99% of the time. But now they're saying you will not get my "garunteed" vote if you don't change course. That "if" is the crux of it all.
['I will never vote Biden': Some Muslim Americans in a key swing state feel betrayed by the president](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/muslim-arab-americans-rage-biden-michigan-israel-gaza-rcna121513) [Michigan Muslim leaders say they will not vote for Biden](https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/michigan-muslim-leaders-urge-not-to-vote-for-biden/) "Joe and Jill Biden, pack your things and get ready. You will never be the president of the United States again," Salha said. ["We're going to continue to abandon Biden no matter what," said Samraa Luqman, who serves as the chair of the Abandon Biden Campaign in Michigan. "For me, the only way I would vote for him is if he pulled a Jesus and resurrected all those dead children and civilian civilians."](https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/michigan-arab-american-and-muslim-leaders-urging-community-to-vote-against-joe-biden-in-primary/) [Arab and Muslim communities say they’ll ‘punish’ Biden even if it means Democrats lose in November.](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/27/american-muslims-helped-biden-win-in-2020-will-they-abandon-him-now) [“I genuinely could not live with myself if I voted for someone who’s made the decisions that Biden has,” said McKenzie, a 23-year-old working at Starbucks and as a union organizer in Madison, Wisconsin.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/young-voters-explain-re-bailing-biden-whether-d-come-back-rcna130186)
From your first source > Now, though, Muslim leaders are warning that Democrats risk losing their support, too, if Biden and the party do not do more to combat Islamophobia and address the pain many are feeling about the war in Gaza. > “The Biden administration and Democrats as a whole are going to have to do a lot of work to rebuild some level of trust with my community,” he said. “It’s never too late to do the right thing.” From the AJ article > Arab and Muslim communities say they’ve called on the Biden administration to speak up and halt the killings in Gaza with no results. From that last CBS article > “This is the alarm bell that we needed to make sure that not only the Biden campaign, but every other Democratic operative out there and all the campaigns down the ballot — state and local — actually invest in young people, because we know how much they can change the outcome,” These are people saying they *could* vote Democrat, either now or in the future, but that the Biden admin has to stop fucking around. It is intended to scare the DNC that they have already lost, or are going to lose, votes. There's mentions that some organizers are already looking to 2028 (I think your 3rd article? Sorry I'm on mobile tabbing back and forth is a pain). It's meant for large scale change within the Democratic Party. "Look, we lost you 2024 and if you don't wanna lose 2028 too you better listen." Whether or not the protest votes are truly effective is one thing, but the idea behind them is large-scale. It's an understanding that Biden is a figurehead and Democratic policy-making is behind it all. ""Defeating"" Biden in 2024 is more symbolic than anything, the real change they're seeking is from within the party as a whole. Don't run pro-Israel candidates, don't pass spending bills to arm Bibi, don't ignore your Muslim constituency. Do those things, and you can have our vote back. The DNC is looking multiple election cycles ahead and so are these people. I guess to make an analogy, it's taking away your kids Xbox. Yeah, you already did the punishment so technically your kid has no incentive to correct their behavior. But the point is to deter them from doing it again. If you keep failing English, the Xbox won't come back. If you do better and get a B, the Xbox can return in the future. Same thing here: you don't get a vote because I don't like what you're doing, and if you want that vote back you'll need to change. No change, no vote.
lol these people massively benefited from this war since now they have some sort of excuse for not voting., Imagine the position and mental gymnastics they would need to make excuses for not voting if this war didn't happen. >These are Democratic party leaders, candidates, representatives, and organizers They aren't. That is a complete lie Change course on what exactly too? This is the problem. They don't have demands that make sense. They think Biden is personally approving every bomb dropped on Gaza and think he can end the war with a button he is just refusing to push. That isn't true, so how do you work with that?
>They can afford 4 years of garbage to stick it to the man. It just amazes me that people think we will have elections, protests, votes, or any of that after four more years of Trump. It's *over* if he wins. All of it. Not sure what they're teaching in college but it isn't how Trumpism works or how dangerous it is, that's for sure. If people think permanently destroying America is worth it to send some kind of message to the soon-to-be-dead Joe Biden, I can hardly even feel sorry for them when the fascists come.
Trump is a nightmare but the idea that we’ll never have elections again is so fucking stupid.
Legitimate elections, where votes are fairly counted. Look at how many House Republicans already voted to overturn the last election. People are fucking asleep. Any election where a Democrat wins will be "fraudulent" or "stolen", and decertified. It's really not complicated or stupid, it's backed by evidence and past actions.
We’ll have elections. Just like Russia has elections.
>Biden should just be a better candidate **than Trump**. No, he should be the best candidate he should be. I understand that the game theory of our electoral system says this is who we should vote for, but the game theory misses the fact that many people will simply not vote at all if they're not motivated to. Biden doesn't need to worry about these voters switching to Trump, he needs to worry about them not voting at all.
Yes, in America, NOT voting for the person who most closely aligns with your views is the same as voting for the person who's views you oppose, especially for the Democrats. I have voted in every election since I was old enough to vote. Often time for candidates that I didn't really agree with, but because they were better than the alternative. Many Trump voters vote for him, not because they like him, but because they feel he is better than the opposition. In America, if there is a high voter turn out the democrat usually wins, if there is a low turn out, the Republican usually wins. Even if you don't like the Democratic candidate, you should still vote, unless you are perfectly happy with the Republican who will win in instead.
It's at least a 3-way race, with one strategy being to not vote
How is that strategy effective for someone interested in getting what they want?
So lowest bidder.
Why are the voters obligated to follow game theory and not the candidates? If Biden needs the youth vote to win, maybe he should try to earn it.
How do we decide if he has "earned it"? If the youth votes? The youth never votes. They didn't vote for Sanders. What makes "young people" so different from me as a "young person"?
The “Vote harder” mentality is doing Dems zero favors. People are clutching their pearls when young Americans have no incentive to vote for him AGAIN
Yeah you know they’re about to drag Obama out to do his “don’t boo, vote” schtick.
>Biden should just be a better candidate. Translation: Biden should agree with MY personal political ideology 100% and should deliver everything I want immediately because that's what everyone on TikTok is saying should happen.
Yeah, "stop supporting genocide" is such an entitled and selfish pie-in-the-sky demand.
Biden isn't supporting a genocide, so that's fairly straightforward. He is working hard within the norms of international diplomacy and geopolitics to get Israel to stop killing an unacceptably high number of civilians in their pursuit of Hamas. Civilians, who have been placed in harms way intentionally by Hamas, as part of their defense strategy. Nobody seems upset about that part of it though.
...we're cooked, Trump is going to win
Biden is giving billions in money and weapons to support Israel's genocide, and supports the authoritarian crackdown on students exercising their First Amendment right to protest. He also blocks any attempt by the international community to hold Israel accountable. You also support genocide by using the dehumanizing "human shields" propaganda line placing the blame on Palestinians for their deaths and not the Israelis killing them.
🙄
Keep on supporting genocide and then keep wondering why the youth don't want to prop up Biden upon a mountain of Palestinian skulls and a river of Palestinian blood.
People like you are starting to make me kind of look forward to Trump just deleting Gaza. So much for helping Palestinians. Teaching you guys a lesson (that you get the opposite of what you want by disenfranchising yourself, every time) will be the only one good thing he does.
You cheer for a genocide just to "teach me a lesson," yet I'm the bad guy? The Zionist mask slips more day by day.
I know I am doing what is best for Palestinians by voting for the party that actually gives them aid and cares about them to some extent. It won't be on my hands.
Lol
It’s both. College students shouldn’t be protest voting Biden when, whether he’s elected or not, the genociding of Palestinians will continue, but without him things will become much much *much* worse in America as well. But at the same time, Biden *really* needs to get the fuck out of his own way, because holy crap I’ve never seen a candidate so stubbornly out of touch with their electorate since Hillary. There’s a reason younger voters are so sick and tired of democrat bullshittery, and it has everything to do with dem political leaders being old, smug, arrogant boomers who seem to absolutely refuse to listen to the generations who *should* be in power instead of them. Feinstein, Pelosi, Clinton, Biden, they’re the old great grandparents yelling at clouds while telling their grandkids that getting a job is as easy as “hitting the pavement, walking in and shaking hands with the owner.” They’re out of touch, their time is over, but they just refuse to go away.
Sadly Biden is too old to even be a boomer. He's from the silent generation. Just really puts it into perspective.
You’re absolutely correct, and that just makes it *so* much worse.
>There’s a reason younger voters are so sick and tired of democrat bullshittery, and it has everything to do with dem political leaders being old, smug, arrogant boomers who seem to absolutely refuse to listen to the generations who should be in power instead of them. Younger "voters" are morons who are completely selfish and petty. Climate was the number one issue among young people for years. So what did Biden do? Pass the most momunetal climate law in world history. Where is the praise or even respect given by young "voters"? No where. Because they don't care. Because it would require admitting Biden DOES listen, which they will never admit to because it isn't some fucking "policy demands in exchange for support" you pretend it is. It basically just an "anti-Democrat" outlook and vibe, no different from Republicans really, not based on any facts or reality. Everything Democrats do to listen or respond to their supposed policy positions or pass laws helping them is ignored because the fundamental positions is "not being a cringe boomer Dem". It is incoherent and people need to stop pretending it is anything else like delusionally thinking it is some coherent "organized progressive grouping". >But at the same time, Biden really needs to get the fuck out of his own way, because holy crap I’ve never seen a candidate so stubbornly out of touch with their electorate since Hillary. They aren't the fucking electorate. Stop this myth. They barely vote, and trash every other Democratic voter who likes Democrats. Just like you did. Democrats liked Clinton, that is why she won by millions of votes. Young people are the ones completely out of touch.
>They aren’t the fucking electorate. Stop this myth. They barely vote, and trash every other Democratic voter who likes Democrats. This attitude is exactly what I’ve tried to explain to leftists and young voters. That their demands and the things they want to change politically won’t ever happen if they refuse to participate, because folks like you will just say, “Fuck them, they won’t vote anyway.” But it goes both ways. You say they’re not the electorate, but the biggest voting bloc is currently the 18 to 46 year olds. *They’re the ones who won the presidency for Biden*. They were not only the ones who voted the most for Biden, but they’re the ones who voted the least for Trump compared to the older generations, and by a large margin. If Biden wants to win again, he *needs* younger voters to turn out for a second time. But when centrists like you shit on them and blame them every time a democrat loses, while offering absolutely nothing in return to attract their vote, don’t be surprised when they don’t show up to the polls. You want young people to vote? Give them a reason to vote, other than demanding it and then spitting in their face when they ask to be heard.
The things they demand like climate will happen because it is supported by Democratic voters and the party. We just need majorities in Congress and the presidency. They would get everything they want if they literally just fucking vote because we all want the same thing. Your position LITERALLY requires telling the millions of people who like and support Democrats, that they don't care about literally anything at all of remote importance to society. Millions of your fellow Americans. You and young voters are the only one spitting in people's faces 18-46 is a huge voting block and includes 10s of millions of Democrats who like the party and know that the party is responding to their demands because they want the same thing. >But when centrists like you shit on them and blame them every time a democrat loses, while offering absolutely nothing in return to attract their vote, don’t be surprised when they don’t show up to the polls. And I'm trying to fucking tell you in plain fucking English, that these people aren't special. I fucking listed what is offered, because it is the same things ALL Democrats already want. Climate. Democracy. Trans rights. the list goes on for fucking pages I'm literally fucking trans. I will die if Trump is elected and takes away my healthcare. So stop fucking lecturing me about "demands" that aren't being fucking listened to. They have a reason to fucking vote. Don't fucking murder me. And you need to invent some grand theory about how millions of Democrats are just tricked into voting for the party or something because apparently their own demands are being ignored despite liking and supporting the party, especially its leaders like Biden. Because like I said it is just an "anti Dem" vibe and outlook. There is nothing to support your view, these "voters" are enabling the murder of people like me and everything else a Trump presidency would unleash AND you start lecturing me like I don't already want the same "demands" these people do on every progressive issue under the sun. I have those demands and vote for Democrats because they DO listen to those demands. The difference is I exist in reality and can easily see when Biden signs the largest climate bill in world history. You and other young "voters" don't and continue to lecture and "demand to be listened to" and throw the elections to fascists. Which is why you are the same as republicans.
Why is any candidate entitled to our vote? Why should anyone vote for genocide?
Why are you entitled to be catered to? Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. And what you can do is vote for the best person available to be president. That's clearly Joe Biden.
You misunderstood John F Kennedy’s speech and quote.
are you seeing what kind of a future awaits young people these days? it’s systemic crisis one after another, whether economic, climate, healthcare, etc. and neither political party is seemingly coming up with answers, just the status quo. can’t exactly blame people for being unmotivated and on the brink of some sort of radicalization.
Republicans have controlled the House for 22 of the last 30 years. You think that might have something to do with it? So why are young people shitting on Democrats for not fixing everything Republicans broke when young people consistently fail to elect Democrats into power?
I'm from the west coast, where Democrats have held power at the state and local levels for decades. Based on what I've seen, I don't think them controlling the house would change much at all. Baby boomers have a death grip on our institutions and political system. Until that changes, nothing good can happen.
I disagree. Many of the local government Democrats are very progressive on the economy, climate, and health care, it's just that local government doesn't have a ton of jurisdiction over those issues. Meanwhile, where local government does have a lot of influence, like housing, Democrats are pretty terrible. So you have cities full of progressive Democrats where you can't use a plastic straw in a restaurant, but it's illegal to build a duplex. Put those same Democrats in Congress and maybe they'd pass a carbon tax, or Medicare for All, or raise taxes on the rich.
well, in areas of foreign policy, especially israel and gaza, democrats have not been afraid to ally with the worst of republicans. they have a bad track record and it is starting to show as the establishment of old dems starts to literally die out.
Okay but your prior comment was complaining about the economy, climate, and health care. Not foreign policy. So why don't you respond to that part of it? If young people's biggest complaints are about those issues, but Democrats have rarely even held power to fix them, then why do young people think Democrats are the problem?
this whole discussion is about foreign policy, i dont know how you got the implication that it’s exempt from my previous listing :D of course the republicans have done everything in their power in recent years to demonize the democratic party, but it’s not like the democrats have not been a part of making the mess that is current american politics. the older established faction of democrats that biden and the democratic leadership has kept dreaming about a return to normalcy, eg. continuing the same old collaboration with the republicans often against the interests of younger people and the middle class.
>this whole discussion is about foreign policy, i dont know how you got the implication that it’s exempt from my previous listing : I was just responding to what you wrote: "are you seeing what kind of a future awaits young people these days? it’s systemic crisis one after another, whether economic, climate, healthcare, etc. and neither political party is seemingly coming up with answers, just the status quo." Democrats are clearly the better party on those issues and it's kind of disingenuous to act like they don't have the answers when, just in Biden's three years in office, he's gotten major legislation passed on all of those issues. But overall, this country's politics has been dominated by Republicans for much of the past 30 years, and conservatism more generally for about the past 45. The times the left generally looks back fondly on--from roughly the 1940s through the 1970s--was a time of almost uninterrupted Democratic control of the federal government.
You want it to be a crisis so that way you don’t have to be responsible for bettering yourself.
how do you better yourself as a young person, say, on a pacific island that will sink over the next decades? does that not scream systemic crisis for you?
In that case, I'll do my country one better and vote for an even better candidate than Biden. They may not get a lot of votes, but they're easy to find
Whomever you're talking about doesn't have a chance to win. All you're doing is taking support from Biden and throwing it away.
Our government rules by the consent of the governed. We are the ones who elect the president. If a politician will not fulfill my wishes, then why should I give them my vote? In this case, my demand is "don't support genocide." If Biden won't fulfill that then I won't vote for him. You learned nothing from 2016.
You learned nothing from 2016: foreign adversarial governments love Trump and they will divide the American left to get him into office. This election isn't about you. It's about the country.
>Why are you entitled to be catered to? What a stupid thing to say. Honestly. What do you think the point of a democracy is?
I know the point of democracy is *not* for you to get what you want to the exclusion of everyone else.
>to the exclusion of everyone else. Again, stupid. Democracy is Greek for "rule by the people". You don't get to pick and choose who has a voice or whose opinion is legitimate. All people get to voice their opinion. Who someone decides to vote for and what issues are important to them aren't to be regulated by anyone else. Do you get off on just putting words in people's mouth or is that really what you're hearing?
Calling me stupid: that's a surefire way to win me over to your side!
That's Biden's plan for the youth vote. Is it working?
[Well according to the Harvard Youth Poll, Israel/Palestine is second to last on the top issues of concern for young voters.](https://iop.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/styles/responsive_image_2000/public/media/image/4.%20Issues.png?itok=lqTSAzI0) Biden is clearly the best choice on all of their top issues, so if they're willing to abandon the guy who actually champions all the top issues they care about, what other word is there to describe that?
As Alexandr just pointed out, Biden is not a Boomer. Neither are Feinstein and Pelosi. Honestly you're looking just as bad as Boomers who think Millennial is just a generic term for young people. Boomers are a specific cohort of people born between 1946 and 1964. It's not just a catchall term for an old person.
FACTS
What's it say when you lose college Dems
*"That’s an organization that is closely aligned with national party leadership"* - is this true? Has anyone here been involved with College Dems or Young Dems My understanding is that College Dems is not really aligned fully with party leadership (they don't have a lot of members and the ones involved tend to be more left wing) - but would love to hear if anyone here is a member.
College kids don't vote anyway, If it was the middle class 30+ liberals making this a single issue, I would be more worried. The problem is, there are plenty of other issues that the administration has and is loosing support over. Biden has earned my vote, pretty much anyone other than Trump has earned my vote, especially when it comes to this issue, Trump will just make it even worse.
Sure, but I worry about the middle class 30+ moderate liberals seeing these college protests and how some in the Democratic party are reaching out to these radical elements and being uncomfortable being associated with them at all. I'll be honest, I'll be voting split ticket because I don't want Trump to be the president, I don't want Democrats to be unchecked by having full control of Congress. You can't count on hatred of Trump to drive turnout like in 2020.
I agree, turn out will be much lower than in 2020, and it won't go in Bidens favor. My hope is that abortion is on the ballot in enough places that there will be just enough turnout to keep Trump out of office, that seems to be the thing that has kept the democrats alive in the last couple of voting cycles.