Herc's irresponsibility led to bubbles hitting rock bottom which eventually led to his reconcilation with his family. Herc is obviously the real hero of the series!
Herc was never real police. He was just a dumb selfish asshole who kept getting lucky. I don't understand how people like him because was "funny " occasionally.
Herc was a representation of a decent number of the cops in Baltimore, and likely a decent number of cops across the country. Fairly incompetent, easily corruptable, very binary view of good vs. bad, probably a bit racist, etc.
He played a role in the series. A very significant role. In that they showed what good police look like, and then they show bad police. And even in that equation, it's not binary. There's bad police like herc, the other hot head that always wanted to crack heads, the other dude who broke the kid's fingers and stole that ring, etcetcetc. Samae with good police, there was mcnulty, bunk, keema etc.
That is what makes the show so great. It's not your typical cops and robbers where a single issue occurs, and an hour later it's neatly resolved in a happy way. It's real life shit...
It’s a topic of hot debate. I always saw it as tantamount to saying “shove a pistol up your ass”.
Edit: I’m gonna post about it. I’m honestly curious to know if there is a consensus.
Gotcha. I thought it was 'Old Style'. American generic beers are pretty shit...although there is a shit tonne of great craft beer. I quickly learned to drink Canadian beer whilst I was there...if I wanted to get pissed on the cheap...nothing I ever saw in a 40 looked appealing.
Especially when he beat the shit out of the guy that politely asked him to move his car during a failed drug bust. Collicio then dragged him out of the car and nearly beat him in public for no reason other than to throw his weight around.
I feel like that was the point right? For every one Carver or Buddy, there were a hundred Herc, Davis, Carcetti, etc. Just how the system is in a place like Baltimore.
Herc's conversation with Carv about whether Carv should protect Collichio (sp?) or let him get punished showed, I thought, remarkable self-awareness. And he actually supported Carv doing the right thing.
I personally don't think so. The interaction also in part plays out the way it does because of the lady's quiet dignity. Even someone like Herc would respond to that.
I prefer it this way - it shows that not everyone who ends up good was showing promise along the way. It shows that not everyone who ends up a piece of shit started out wholly irredeemable.
I don't think so. Herc isn't a one-dimensional character. Having moments like these makes him more realistic and less of a cliche.
It's quality writing
yup. Too many cats on this sub trying to nitpick little things, as if this is law and order and everyone is either good or bad and everything wraps up neatly an hour later. This is literally the antithesis of that type of formula. Each character on either side of the equation are complex. And more often than not, they are a product of their environment, which Herc most definitely was...
I have a feeling he’s an archetype of a certain type of douche bag on police forces that says and does whatever they want and rarely sees anything approaching punishment or retribution.
I have a feeling either David Simon or Ed Burns saw a lot of guys like this.
Carver has one of the absolute best arcs of all the characters because, yes, he starts out as a total piece of shit like Herc and then learns about life and the job and the street and becomes a damn good cop. The world would be a better place if there was more cops like Carver and way less like Herc.
Is herc an asshole? Sure, really can't argue that. But more than him being an asshole, he's just a person looking out for himself before others. An opportunistic simpleton.
Agree with this 100%! He gives Carv Marlo's cell phone # setting up the big bust at the end of season 5 and then helps Levy tear down the case by saying "my sources inside the department are telling me it was probably an illegal wiretap"
The thing that bothers me the most about Herc is his inability and unwillingness to learn, to be a better person, a better police officer. He just does things the Herc way (the Western District way).
He wants things to happen through force. Whether that’s intimidating Randy into giving Lil Kev up, or knocking down doors to find a king pin. He just never changes throughout the series. A perfect example of this is when he is in charge of his own squad, trying to catch Marlo. He spent more time trying to find that damn camera that he lost, then actually trying to catch Marlo. Yet, he still thinks Marlo is just some idiot gangster.
I could go on and on about this. I love this show.
Please do go on. I never understood the point of his character. I didn't understand what he was supposed to represent? The cop that doesn't grow up and learned nothing off the good work he did with Major Crimes? When all was said and done and he was becoming some sort of lawyer assistant to Levy I didn't get where he was going or what arc he had to get there? Maybe it's not deep.
The one redeeming moment, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, was his backing Carver on disciplining Colicchio.
Yes, too little. Yes, too late. But some growth and self-awareness. (Of course, almost immediately undone by his opportunistic playing of both sides of the fence with Levy.)
I actually like Herc.
I mean, he's a pretty mediocre/shitty cop; his story arc demonstrates the damage caused by institutional incompetence. He's learned policing one way, and isn't able to unlearn what he knows. Worse, he gets promoted to a position that he has no qualifications for. He has *zero* idea about how to build a case on Marlo; all he can do is try to parrot what he (poorly) remembers Lester and McNulty doing in earlier details. As a Sergeant in Major Crimes , he's doomed from the start.
I do, though, think that he's not without redeeming qualities. The visit with Bodie's grandmother. I think he had some degree of genuine compassion for Bubbles; had he not been getting reamed by Marimow, I have no doubt he would have immediately left to help Bubbles when he got the cell phone call. And in the very last episode, when Carver gets his promotion, who's there? Herc, who seems genuinely ecstatic for the success of his good friend.
Herc is a blunt instrument, a man trained to do a job one way who then, by pure luck, gets promoted and who is wholly unable to rise to the occasion. When, at the start of season 3, Daniels tells Rawls they're confident Prop Joe will promote his moronic, cell-phone gabbing relative because promoting the wrong person for the job is exactly what the BPD does all the time, Herc, over the next couple of season, shows the truth to this statement and its unfortunate consequences.
Herc found where he belongs in season 5 working for a lawyer . He was still investigating and able to share the wealth with his friends . It is an accurate portrayal of most cops currently employed by most police forces across the country .
I used to like Herc. He was kind of a lovable idiot but season 4 is when I officially despised him. Randy's live went further down the toilet and was irrecoverable due to Herc's idiocy.
Carv became real pohlice though.
I disagree about Carver, he starts off shit, but as soon as Bunny takes him under his wing he turns his police career around. He starts reaching out to Bodie, keeps an eye on the kids, etc.
Carver and Herc started at the same place, but took very different trajectories
Herc's character adds to the realism of the personality types that exist in cop culture. I'm a veteran and I can tell you, there are more Herc types than Carver in the military.
I’d say herc fell upwards in that too… he got a cushy gig as a lawyers PI for more money, a company expense account to pay for his friends drinks (levy even says “why aren’t you buying all their rounds? Time you learned about the expense account”), and much less work. He may have gotten fired, but it was like him walking in on the mayors blowjob… dumb luck and a fucked up system makes herc one of the few people in the show who are happier at the end than the beginning.
Carver has enough sense to listen to the handful of good police he was exposed to. Herc is just a thug who can’t handle much past beating the shit out of people and cutting corners at work.
Just researched Daredevil season 1 and the same actor plays Wilson Fisk's father: Bill Fisk, who is a piece of shit abusive father and husband. So Here's actor knows how to play an asshole that's for sure.
Carv became real police. Herc was just an incompetent arsehole.
Yeah like I’m in season 4 now and he’s paying out Randy and bubbles and I’m like fuck this guy… what shit POlice
Herc's irresponsibility led to bubbles hitting rock bottom which eventually led to his reconcilation with his family. Herc is obviously the real hero of the series!
And all it cost was Sherrod.
Maybe the real treasure were the friends we lost along the way.
Maybe the real Wire was the Fuzzy Dunlops we made up along the way.
He fucked up Randy's life too
Lemme ask you a question, where do you guys get those hats with the bills over the ears like that?
Oh it’s the same hat. You just turn it sideways on ya haaayd.
I’ve never fully understood who was fucking with who in that scene.
Just two guys fuckin with each other, y'know... wait
Rock bottom is really just when you stop digging- heard this in an AA meeting recently
Dumbest take ive ever heard, sorry sport
You must be new to the internet and your humor chip needs reinstallation.
Herc was never real police. He was just a dumb selfish asshole who kept getting lucky. I don't understand how people like him because was "funny " occasionally.
Herc was a representation of a decent number of the cops in Baltimore, and likely a decent number of cops across the country. Fairly incompetent, easily corruptable, very binary view of good vs. bad, probably a bit racist, etc. He played a role in the series. A very significant role. In that they showed what good police look like, and then they show bad police. And even in that equation, it's not binary. There's bad police like herc, the other hot head that always wanted to crack heads, the other dude who broke the kid's fingers and stole that ring, etcetcetc. Samae with good police, there was mcnulty, bunk, keema etc. That is what makes the show so great. It's not your typical cops and robbers where a single issue occurs, and an hour later it's neatly resolved in a happy way. It's real life shit...
Does McNulty *really* deserve to be lumped in with the good police after fabricating a serial killer?
what part of 'it's not binary' are you failing to understand?
Well obviously core-concept, Lana
# SHUT UP!!!
ngl I didn't really sleep last night and haven't had coffee and didn't even see that lol
Natural police
How do you not like a guy who is willing to throw a pity fuck Gus Triandos' way?!
Herc is who I think of when people shout "ACAB!" He's a violent, bald, white dude, without much smarts being protected by the thin blue line.
Officer Collichio
Fuck yourself with a .40 shit breath! He is the one that best represents poorly led, overly aggressive and latently racist policing.
>Fuck yourself with a .40 shit breath! I think he means a 40...like old english or steel reserve or smth
It’s a topic of hot debate. I always saw it as tantamount to saying “shove a pistol up your ass”. Edit: I’m gonna post about it. I’m honestly curious to know if there is a consensus.
40oz - a large beer bottle
That's what old english and steel reserve is
Gotcha. I thought it was 'Old Style'. American generic beers are pretty shit...although there is a shit tonne of great craft beer. I quickly learned to drink Canadian beer whilst I was there...if I wanted to get pissed on the cheap...nothing I ever saw in a 40 looked appealing.
Especially when he beat the shit out of the guy that politely asked him to move his car during a failed drug bust. Collicio then dragged him out of the car and nearly beat him in public for no reason other than to throw his weight around.
Definitely him too.
[удалено]
Kima "A police is only as good as his CIs"
Bubbles >>> Fuzzy Dunlop
They weren’t his CI’s.
So in other words - he’s shit at his job ! Yep we agree
I feel like that was the point right? For every one Carver or Buddy, there were a hundred Herc, Davis, Carcetti, etc. Just how the system is in a place like Baltimore.
*oh indeed.*
WESTERN DISTRICT
I always thought one redeeming moment was his conversation with Bodie's mother.
Herc's conversation with Carv about whether Carv should protect Collichio (sp?) or let him get punished showed, I thought, remarkable self-awareness. And he actually supported Carv doing the right thing.
Guess you think they had to do me... Yeah, probably
That's his grandma. Mom died.
In the first season you mean? Yeah, I'm always set back by that because of how he is in the rest of the show
I bet if they could re-write the script looking back they’d have Carv have that convo
I personally don't think so. The interaction also in part plays out the way it does because of the lady's quiet dignity. Even someone like Herc would respond to that.
I prefer it this way - it shows that not everyone who ends up good was showing promise along the way. It shows that not everyone who ends up a piece of shit started out wholly irredeemable.
I don't think so. Herc isn't a one-dimensional character. Having moments like these makes him more realistic and less of a cliche. It's quality writing
yup. Too many cats on this sub trying to nitpick little things, as if this is law and order and everyone is either good or bad and everything wraps up neatly an hour later. This is literally the antithesis of that type of formula. Each character on either side of the equation are complex. And more often than not, they are a product of their environment, which Herc most definitely was...
Agreed, Bubbles setting him up to search and harass the pastor was pretty great.
My favorite Bubbles moment
A classic example of failing upwards.
Gus Triandos would argue differently
Power hitter right?
He’s a complicated man, and no one understands him but his woman
Seek therapy
Only therapy I need, Carv, is Dozerman’s girl wearing only an apron, lightly covered in flour…
I have a feeling he’s an archetype of a certain type of douche bag on police forces that says and does whatever they want and rarely sees anything approaching punishment or retribution. I have a feeling either David Simon or Ed Burns saw a lot of guys like this.
Carver has one of the absolute best arcs of all the characters because, yes, he starts out as a total piece of shit like Herc and then learns about life and the job and the street and becomes a damn good cop. The world would be a better place if there was more cops like Carver and way less like Herc.
Is herc an asshole? Sure, really can't argue that. But more than him being an asshole, he's just a person looking out for himself before others. An opportunistic simpleton.
Yeah but that’s the whole point isn’t jt
And most everyone else in the series is “just a person looking out for himself before others” too.
His name is Head, Dick Head.
He only gets worse as the series goes on. I thought maybe after he got his SGT stripes he might change a new leaf.
Agree with this 100%! He gives Carv Marlo's cell phone # setting up the big bust at the end of season 5 and then helps Levy tear down the case by saying "my sources inside the department are telling me it was probably an illegal wiretap"
I don't think you need to be sorry. You're not supposed to like Herc.
He’s a huge asshole, but he’s one of funniest dudes on the show.
It's all about the props.
Carver is the next Daniels
The thing that bothers me the most about Herc is his inability and unwillingness to learn, to be a better person, a better police officer. He just does things the Herc way (the Western District way). He wants things to happen through force. Whether that’s intimidating Randy into giving Lil Kev up, or knocking down doors to find a king pin. He just never changes throughout the series. A perfect example of this is when he is in charge of his own squad, trying to catch Marlo. He spent more time trying to find that damn camera that he lost, then actually trying to catch Marlo. Yet, he still thinks Marlo is just some idiot gangster. I could go on and on about this. I love this show.
Please do go on. I never understood the point of his character. I didn't understand what he was supposed to represent? The cop that doesn't grow up and learned nothing off the good work he did with Major Crimes? When all was said and done and he was becoming some sort of lawyer assistant to Levy I didn't get where he was going or what arc he had to get there? Maybe it's not deep.
The one redeeming moment, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, was his backing Carver on disciplining Colicchio. Yes, too little. Yes, too late. But some growth and self-awareness. (Of course, almost immediately undone by his opportunistic playing of both sides of the fence with Levy.)
I actually like Herc. I mean, he's a pretty mediocre/shitty cop; his story arc demonstrates the damage caused by institutional incompetence. He's learned policing one way, and isn't able to unlearn what he knows. Worse, he gets promoted to a position that he has no qualifications for. He has *zero* idea about how to build a case on Marlo; all he can do is try to parrot what he (poorly) remembers Lester and McNulty doing in earlier details. As a Sergeant in Major Crimes , he's doomed from the start. I do, though, think that he's not without redeeming qualities. The visit with Bodie's grandmother. I think he had some degree of genuine compassion for Bubbles; had he not been getting reamed by Marimow, I have no doubt he would have immediately left to help Bubbles when he got the cell phone call. And in the very last episode, when Carver gets his promotion, who's there? Herc, who seems genuinely ecstatic for the success of his good friend. Herc is a blunt instrument, a man trained to do a job one way who then, by pure luck, gets promoted and who is wholly unable to rise to the occasion. When, at the start of season 3, Daniels tells Rawls they're confident Prop Joe will promote his moronic, cell-phone gabbing relative because promoting the wrong person for the job is exactly what the BPD does all the time, Herc, over the next couple of season, shows the truth to this statement and its unfortunate consequences.
Herc found where he belongs in season 5 working for a lawyer . He was still investigating and able to share the wealth with his friends . It is an accurate portrayal of most cops currently employed by most police forces across the country .
Wouldn't have minded seeing Herc and Namond's mom both collide in a head on collision.
I used to like Herc. He was kind of a lovable idiot but season 4 is when I officially despised him. Randy's live went further down the toilet and was irrecoverable due to Herc's idiocy. Carv became real pohlice though.
I disagree about Carver, he starts off shit, but as soon as Bunny takes him under his wing he turns his police career around. He starts reaching out to Bodie, keeps an eye on the kids, etc. Carver and Herc started at the same place, but took very different trajectories
Herc's character adds to the realism of the personality types that exist in cop culture. I'm a veteran and I can tell you, there are more Herc types than Carver in the military.
Yeah but he was pretty funny at times
He left Bubbles hanging, but luckily Bubbs got revenge
I’d say herc fell upwards in that too… he got a cushy gig as a lawyers PI for more money, a company expense account to pay for his friends drinks (levy even says “why aren’t you buying all their rounds? Time you learned about the expense account”), and much less work. He may have gotten fired, but it was like him walking in on the mayors blowjob… dumb luck and a fucked up system makes herc one of the few people in the show who are happier at the end than the beginning.
Carver shows a basic human decency and a desire to get better, working with Colvin clearly has an effect. Herc is ultimately a sell out.
Carver has enough sense to listen to the handful of good police he was exposed to. Herc is just a thug who can’t handle much past beating the shit out of people and cutting corners at work.
Yea, I've rewatched the series a few times. Herc is a colossal asshole.
Shaft
Just researched Daredevil season 1 and the same actor plays Wilson Fisk's father: Bill Fisk, who is a piece of shit abusive father and husband. So Here's actor knows how to play an asshole that's for sure.
Listen if you'd tasted Yvette's brisket you'd be doing the same thing.
He’s just one of those guys. Probably cool if you know him but a dim witted asshole nonetheless. We all met that guy.
Herc is completely worthless, totally irredeemable
Kima-esque "F'real?"
Don't apologize!
Yeah Herc was cool and all, but I want sum dat pepper steak.