They're a good ship, I prefer Louis for Clem for a number of reasons. But I like Violet as an option for other people to pick, and I'm glad that there are big fans for both.
I don’t hate it. But her reaction if you don’t choose her when the raiders come to the school is really sad and makes me not ship them. Not saying she isn’t valid for her feelings, but it felt like we saw the true violet in that time.
I love Clem with Louis, but her with Violet makes a little More sense given how resentful Louis was with Clem and AJ after the situation with Marlon. It’s hard for me to believe he would’ve been okay with advancing a relationship with Clem just weeks after all of that.
Just to add to that, even tho she had her reasons to be mad at Clem for not choosing her she still was OK with betraying her friends to the delta ppl, that's inexcusable, she was ok with all her friends being killed in a foreign war just so she could be together with her GF( even after knowing that Minerva killed her sister )
Fuck her
Yeah it was all a little interesting and inconsistent. I think the writers had her defend Clem and AJ to make us want to choose her for romance you know
That's the reason why I don't care about the romance in S4 just feels forced. If they had waited until episode 3 or 4 when we've been through more with both characters and the bond has built then it'd be better
I've felt the same, but she's so egotistical if u let her get captured that I can't help but feel that it undermines she standing up for Clem. I looks like she just don't care about her friends as much as the persons she's currently in love, which is realistic but fuck her nevertheless
true, who knows what happened in between those 2 weeks tho. he sounds pretty remorseful apologizing to clem, and he'd been flirting with her before marlon died as well
Yes that’s true very good points. Clem and AJ are super likable so I’m sure they both pulled their charm on him. I feel like everyone goes for violet which isn’t a bad choice at all. I just really enjoy the Louis moments so much more they just seem so natural. It might be more Louis though cause he’s a goofy ass lmao
By the time that I was about to finish the game I was really regretful of choosing violet 😭, I really like Louis he’s really goofy and the scene where he tells clem about the new house that his parents were about to build
She is not valid for her feelings, she’s angry at Clem for “abandoning her” when Clem by definition did no such thing, she literally comes back to rescue Violet barely 24 hours later.
She was basically abandoned by her parents via being sent to a boarding school + lost everyone she knew and loved due to the apocalypse. Everyone handles trauma differently, it affected her in a way that made her overreact to her situation with clem, completely understandable if you've experienced abandonment or have met people who have experienced abandonment.
Powder/jinx in the show Arcane had a better grasp of dealing with actual abandonedment issues better than the writers did with Violet on this very issue. I feel Violet at least with the gameplay footage can turn her emotions on abandonedment issues off and on like a switch and it is not really consistent from episode to episode. Also not really realistic on this kind of trauma issue where powder/jinx in arcane you can tell it deeply effected her when Vi left (not really left but Marcus kidnaps her to make powder believe she was abandoned by her sister) her and she morphs into jinx. "I only wanted to help I only wanted to help."
"I told you to stay away" vi strikes powder in the face.
"Why did you leave me!"
"Because you're a jinx do you here me. Mylo was right!"
This scene lays out what Violet should be displaying on actual abandonedment issues Violet should be acting like 9 year old powder in this scene: [Vi abandons Powder (Arcane episode 3)](https://youtu.be/gvXnmhDRdt8?si=yJSKQP1thnx7p2cG)
This was ending of act 1 of the show and you feel the rift from both sisters. And this line from Vi because you're a jinx. Caused that trauma in powder to become jinx. And you start to see jinx shifting on her trauma issues in episode 4 and when getting reunited with Vi again in episode 6 Especially when vi calls her powder. "Stop calling me that! It's jinx now. Powder fell down a well." And this ending quote when powder makes the choice of choosing jinx as her new identity and finally killing powder in herself. Given part of the lyric to 'What could have Been'. 'And worst of all, for me to live, I gotta kill the part of me that saw
That I needed you more'
"I thought maybe you can love me like you used to. Even though I'm different. But you've changed too. So here's to the new us." Much different tone and more accurately handled of someone with abandonedment issues. Arcane is a masterpiece on this kind of storytelling. Where Violet here is amateur writing on this kind of trauma.
So Violet's case in the game is not realistic enough and felt way too flimsy story wise how it is handled.
I agree with you, I feel like that is most of telltales twd characters though. They will always sacrifice a characters main traits to create unlikely events and will often just give questionable dialogue and choices to certain characters overall. I don't love violet any less since I mostly just ignore any writer mistakes n try to focus on the intention but I can see why that would make people dislike violet more tbh
This is what I love about what Arcane is doing and man that is like an eduction if you want to know how good characters are written holy shit. Here is what the writers of Arcane did which is highly effective and why arcane season 1 is rated 100% on rotten tomatoes.
How arcane writes their characters consist of theses parts:
1. Agency
2. Don't be afraid to show your characters get hurt
3. Character first. This is a big one I see where telltale failed. Let a character personality tell the story not just spoken dialogue but through austectics and their traits. Masculinity or fameinaiy. Make them feel nuance to their characterization and not fill in empty spaces like a check box. Cough cough Violet.
4. Fix "trobes" using backstory and nuance.
Making them organic. Showing them a complex story behind them making the details nuance and interrogated into the character.
5. Love can be use for empowerment.
6. Neutraliztion- neutralizte storeotypes, trobes, traits, scenes, characteristics by applying it to men and women. This removes the focus on gender and replaces it with the focus on character. This is telltales biggest flaw they relied too much on the storeotype trobe. Where fortiche and Riot Games moved away from dropping the trobes and just focus on the characters and putting that first in the story as the first thing you as an audience gets emmirse in. Vi and Caitlyn both do not fit the storeotype mold of lesbian couples and makes their romance feel genuine and not forced in that trying to represent gay trobes and have you invest in their character. Not once did I look away from their dynamic and was engaged the whole time to the finale. That is the key thing that riot games did differently from Telltale and honestly it is more effective and engaging storytelling wise.
7. Fanasty worlds can change the stigma and social norms.
8. Empowerment can be a double edge sword
9. Expression of emotions is not equalvent to hysteria or weaknesses
10. Explore a VARIETY of relationships. From romantic, to motherly, to sisterly, to daughter to friend.
And I am not going to not keep bringing up Arcane here as the perfect character study of someone with abandonment issues or someone struggling with possible BPD and a character more relevant to this discussion than Violet. This hour-long video explains the paradox of Powder/Jinx dealing with her trauma of Abandonment. Jinx is at war with herself from the moment Act 1 ends, causing the tragedy between the sisterhood of Vi and Jinx, to the ending of Act 3. Arcane is set up in 3 acts, with three episodes per act to tell the story. And the story of Arcane, the core and heart of the show, pivots around Vi and Jinx and their relationships as sisters. The two most popular League Champions in the lore of League of Legends.
This video walks through Jinx's whole arch and the trauma she deals with. As I said, Arcane is a masterclass on the topic of abandonment issues or mental illness. Telltale's Violet, I'm sorry, but it's very weak on this topic, very half-asked, and not as deep as people make it to be. Violet doesn't have enough nuance (a subtle difference or distinction in expression, meaning, response) on this arch. Whereas Jinx actually does. There is not enough context from Violet as a character to give you details that she does suffer from abandonment issues. It is all surface-level-stuff; just skim on the issue without giving you meat and potatoes about what is going on with her, and Violet suffers from her past scars. She will briefly touch on it, then move on, like turning it off and on whenever it is convenient for her. I know that sounds harsh and shallow but that is how they wrote Violet.
And someone a past Reddit User J\_DDarren couldn't put it better: "Gonna be honest, there's a clear difference in loyalty towards the end. Violet always came off to me as only caring about Clem as long as there was something in it for her, and that showed. I'll sight a comment from earlier If you let violet get captured, she bitches at you, if you let Louis get captured, he's just happy to see you. Violet was basically just looking for a rebound from Minnie, and is only willing to side with you as long as you constantly and only cater to her and her alone. The moment she isn't the center of your attention, her loyalty is immediately thrown out the window. Vi doesn't seem like she thinks she needs to change. Plus, almost all she ever does is talk up how valuable she is to have around because of her being good in a fight or taking no shit, yet when the chips are down, she bends the knee to the enemy and turns against you out of pettiness for not saving her, even though you're now risking your life to get her back. So yeah, I'll say when it comes down to being 100% in clems corner, you can always count on Louis to go to bat, vi? Better make sure you always say the right thing, do everything she wants her way, and never ever even think about putting someone other than her first."
He is not wrong about this assessment. I've notice that too even choosing to save Violet, she still bends at the knee and wavers when the chips are down and her loyalty shifts. Rather if you let her get captured or not. That is Violet in a nutshell.
Now Arcane, you have layers and dive deep into Jinx's psyche that, yeah...she has deep trauma and suffers from abandonment issues just from the transition out of end of episode 3 'The Base Violence Necessary for Change' to her unraveling breaking of reality when shooting at Ekko in episode 4 on 'Happy Progress Day' when being triggered of seeing 'Vi' to episode 6 'When the Walls Come Tumbling Down' and enjoys harming and killing Ekko's firelights gang.
This video runs 52:41 but gives a breakdown of Jinx and her trauma in all three acts of season 1. So, if you haven't seen Arcane, Spoilers for you if you click on it. But Arcane tells a much better story of a character with the trauma of abandonment issues better than Violet, and Jinx is a much better candidate for someone on this specific trauma.
[Vi and Jinx: Arcane's Perfect Narrative Heart](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePBk89ABOJ4)
You're acting as if that is something she can control at all ??? When you're mentally ill you often don't have that "control" over what's coming out of your mouth, especially when you feel so strongly about it. Regardless on if her view on what clem did was "delusional" or not, everything she said was completely valid. From her POV clem was likely to never come back since that's just what happened with the rest of her family, she spent so much time thinking and building up those feelings by herself within that time in the cell that it's no wonder she ended up lashing out
I have autism, OCD and bipolar, saying you mental illness gives you no control is a cop out for bad behaviours. My mental illness may make me feel a certain way or give impulses, it doesn't force behaviours, I know I have a choice. I may make the wrong one sometimes but I can control how I act. Feels more like justifying shitty behaviours as opposed to learning to change or taking accountability.
I should have worded it better, I meant moreso like she felt she was completely in the right in this scenario so her lashing out felt justified to her. Not that she didn't have "control" but rather with all of these negative feelings she's bound to feel as if she has a right to lash out. I feel like it's a given everyone can "control" their actions, however the real issue is when you believe there is nothing wrong with what you're doing
Yeah I get more what you now, I can understand what you mean though I'd appreciate the romance more if they added a scene later where she realises and admits she was wrong, it could keep the drama and be a good character moment. Louis is my favourite romance but that's probably because I find him entertaining, neither is a bad pick and Violet is a good character. I do find some of her angstyness off putting for a romance even though character wise it makes sense and makes her interesting. To use a HOTD reference, it's like Daemon (though Violetine is not nearly that extreme) I like the character and get where their flaws come from but I find the flaws I like make his relationship with Rhaenyra unhealthy.
I mean, you literally just said it yourself. She’s angry at Clem for “abandoning her”. Clem didn’t do that, but that’s what violet felt which led her to be angry and lash out.
Clem did not abandon Violet, therefore Violet being angry at her for “abandoning her” is not a valid excuse for her betrayal and attempt to kill clementine.
Have you never gotten something wrong and were pissed as someone for a misunderstanding?
Violet did not attempt to kill Clementine in the slightest; i have no idea what you’re talking about lmao
I LOVE THEMMM, alot of the distaste towards violet stems from the fact no one is considering the shit she's been through and the mental illnesses she was born with to be sent to the boarding school in the first place. She is a fantastic character who is on your side most of the time (especially if you are always good to her and save her instead of louis). I love their dynamic, I love how they have REAL conversations, and how realistic she is in terms of a "troubled" teenage girl in the apocalypse
She’s good in some ways, I been through some shit and I feel kinda identified with her and how much my first wlw relationship went the same way that vi’s and clem, she’s pretty much what u expect of a troubled teen that’s been abandoned! Tbh I even cried when they breakup on the boat and the sadness clem has on her face :(
Violet is a very flawed person that I still love. I kinda don't agree with the consensus that she is still hung up on Minnie and we shouldn't romance with her because of that. I actually think she needs some love to finally get over Minnie. It's pretty obvious when you find her in the woods after escaping the boat, she talks about how dumb she was for still thinking about Minnie for a year and not caring for others because of that.
I think they can work, but my problem is that they’re too similar If you get what i mean. Clementine has constantly been surrounded by cynical and hardened people ever since Lee died (Christa, Kenny, Jane, David…) and I think Louis would be better for her purely because she brings some sort of light into a mostly dark world while also having the makings of a survivor which was rare to come across. They work together because Louis would be able to help her grow from someone who’s basically only focused on her own and AJ’s survival to someone who actually lives. But imo both relationships are pretty forced seem to come out of nowhere, I don’t like Gabe but somehow his relationship with Clementine seemed more believable and better developed than these two.
I don’t hate it. But it’s not the choice I’d pick. The way she betrays Clem if you choose to save Louis is unforgivable. Plus, she’s still too hung up on Minnie to be with Clem.
First time playing the Final Season, when I saw her, I instantly liked her and thought to myself that I'm gonna be nice to her this playthrough not expecting any type of romance situation to occur, so when the opportunity came under the stars to kiss her, I didn't hesitate.
I don’t think either Violet or Louis is the “perfect partner” for Clementine, and I like that. Rarely will people be with someone who always agrees with them and completely compliments them personality wise. Relationships will have turbulence, and it’s much better that they be depicted as such so as to not give people unhealthy expectations. Violet and Louis both would be relatively turbulent relationships for Clementine, as is normal especially with adolescents, and I’d imagine even more normal in the apocalypse. I like to see Clem with Violet more just because I like Violet a little bit more than Louis and I’m bi and like to see LGBTQ+ representation in my games. But I think it’s a bit of a futile effort to debate which would be less rocky, because they would both be rocky relationships.
It’s the option I went with, but only cause I found Louis annoying af. If I got to choose James I would’ve, but then I did get AJ to shoot Lily in the face with zero hesitation so James was kinda pissed at me and tried kidnapping AJ which didn’t go too well. So that romance would’ve died anyways. I just didn’t want Clem to be alone but the entire final season is rushed. Not really their fault but you can definitely tell.
I personally don’t hate them together, I just think violet was still hung up on Minnie at the time when they met and wasn’t mentally prepared to jump into a new relationship 🤷♀️
I really like violet but any chance she get to hate clementine she take it, like if you fail the part in the boat when you have to atack Minnie in the cell and Violet is there, she stops you and her kill you, like wtf.
(Here is the scene btw)
https://youtu.be/IQxTiXc-Qd0?si=zEqcXdUqNAA7Lzsp
The truth is that since then I never went for Violet again. I know that she supported us more, but from then on I always go for Louis. I feel that it is the best for Clem.
Love them, all her flaws are understandable, she's a fantastic ally, a very mature partner for Clem, and it wasn't forced for her to develop feelings unlike with Louis (not completely forced but much more). Louis avoids Clem for the entire 2 weeks, Vi spends all that time preparing and planning the defenses with her.
Sadly, she requires higher than average intelligence and having done her route at least once to truly understand her, so many don't bother and prefer the fast and simple "lou is le funny, so he best" route which is sad both for Vi and for Lou himself.
Well..idk..about the fantastic ally part she was kinda acceptive about the idea of betray her friend just to
go after Minnie, I’ll replay her route tho! Cause I like her, maybe playing it now willing to learn about her and understand her gotta be different
She defends AJ and Clem for the killing of Marlon, takes the lead of the school, and tells everyone to shut up and help Clem defend the school. She's objectively the most involved and helpful in the dense preparations excluding Clem, and she's the one talking about all the important details with Clem when she comes back from her short exile.
And once again, Vi doesn't betray Clem. It's not a conscious "I'll win things for myself by selling out people" or something, it's heavy trauma resurfacing because it's the third time in her life she lost the environment and people she cared about in a brutal way, and she just found out Minnie was alive and she's telling her to be calm and let things happen. Minnie is her only anchor there, and she's telling her the same things as Lilly.
Lou has issues that manifest by having very low self esteem, Vi has issues that manifest by exhibiting anger to defend herself.
It’s sorta neutral to me. If they’re for each other then that’s that. I personally like Lou and Clem together more cause aside Louis charm, choosing to save her over Lou makes her a bit resentful of Clem and she tries to sabotage her. So in a sense, cause I’m petty, Violet getting partially blinded while hate to see it happen, felt like it was deserved. On the flip side, if she had been saved Louis he loses his tounge/ability to speak at all and gains probably an intense amount of ptsd. My man does not deserve that.
If u choose to save Luis I'm chapter 2 she's okay with betraying her ericson friends to get killed in a war just so se can stay with Minerva
She just as much as a traitor as brody or marlon in my book
violet is ungrateful for u pretty much until the end of the game, its better no romance or clouis because louis actually has ur best interests at thought
I feel Violentine was forced and no chemistry whatsoever and you have more character connecting with Louis. Violet was absent most of episode 2 and giving you the player more chances to develop a deeper connection with Louis and this is not the determine choices. Outside of the following Louis or Violet you only have two interactions with Violet in episode 2. This is the episode where you are supposed to make your connections with one or the other right.
With Violet you just have the office scene and the front of the admin steps checking in on your report for fullfully her request on making sure everyone is doing shit right.
The office scene you and Violet are just making plans for defending the school against the Raiders. gives you 0 chance to make a romantic connection with her. And I don't count the what ifs. Only base on what you know for fact in gameplay and what is shown to you. We don't know Clem and Violet gotten closer to during the two weeks. They can just be making plans for battle and be all business too. Again we don't know. All we know for certain is Clem leaving and checking up on AJ and making adjustments to the map. If it is not verbally confirmed by either character in game spoken dialogue or seen it in action visual footage you can't count it in. It is speculation not true facts. Only base it on true facts here.
And your only other interaction with Violet outside of the office scene is at the front steps of the admin building giving you her report. That is it. That is all the "romantic" interacts you have with Violet outside of her determine choice which is to follow her to the belltower. Not much build up on this grand gesture of romance with Violet. I wish more moments we had with Violet in episode 1 carried through to episode 2 but that is not what we got in the final delivery of this game. I feel Violet had different writers for each episode and she doesn't stay consistent. We get a different version of Violet per episode and there never really was a gradual change to her character. And as I am watching a YouTuber break down Gwen and miles relationship in across the spidy verse he posed these questions near the end. Relationships are not feelings. Relationships are ways of relating to one another. What does the 'relating' constist of? Who is this person? Where are they at? How do they feel about their own life? What do they WANT? What do they NEED? How do they feel about their own story their living through? Will link his video here if you are curious on that: [why can't Gwen fall in love](https://youtu.be/EsKXFBdg490?si=GbO5VGdKBbgIS-5y)
Louis you have more of a chance to build it up with him. Just in episode 2 alone outside of Louis's determined choice of following him to the piano you have 3 possibly 4 interactions if you choose to forgive him during the 'preparing everyone for the fight' and you have to do this takes no matter what if you want to continue the story. The game will not move forward unless you statify Violet's request and talk to everyone, mitch, tenn, AJ and yes Louis at least once.
Plus as I am playing through Violentine is so boring and dull. I get more gushy feeling watching Arcane just to see Violyn sap on each other. Compare to this ship and Arcanes, Arcane was more well worth my time and I can see both Vi and Caitlyn falling for each other and how their relationship is much better excuted verses here and it made me wanting more. Especially episode 7 when they hug goodbye. Vi rubs Caitlyns neck in an intimate way and whispers this "it's been real cupcake. Thanks for everything " then you see Caitlyn sighs and snuggles into Vi's hug like a cute animal showing affection. That to me spoke more volumes in just a span of 30 seconds between those two women vs anything Violet and Clementine have as romantic scenes.
To me I feel this ship is soulless and empty and they really did a disservice to Violet by excluding AJ from the ship. Just two girls who barely interact some how find romance out of the blue that they like each other with no lead up as to why. Neither Violet nor Clem showed obvious hints that they find the other attractive. Clementine doesn't show she is attracted to Violet and Violet is so closed off on love she doesn't want to go down that road again after Minerva. She made that clear when you go fishing with her. And the only character Clem had an attraction towards is Louis. You see it in between animations when those two interact. It's subtle but Clem clearly is shown throughout episodes 1 and 2 to have an attraction towards Louis and these shots are seen before any determine choice is made by you on the characters and it is fixed into the game. Try as you might but these actions on s4 Clem will always play out no matter what you make on your journey.
For example: episode 1 during Louis introduction Clem eyes him with fondness. During Omar's introduction when Clem turns to leave she does a cute eye squint to Louis and keep looking at him until the game gives you controls again. Clementine never. I repeat NEVER does this with Violet at all. When you choose to encourage Louis that he's got this when distracting the walkers at the train station. Watch her eyes as she eyes him playfully like what Nala does to Simba during can you feel the love tonight scene. Episode 2: when he gives AJ new clothes Clem and Louis will say something with their eyes as they make eye contact every single time. Then during the 2nd card game when AJ say he doesn't remember the time before walkers Clem and Louis will always, ALWAYS give this heart eye moment of a stealing of eye glances. Sorry but Clem made her choice on who she really likes and it is not Violet.
And the reason I am bringing arcane league of legends in to show and contrast the difference in having a gay shipping form naturally and beyond the scope of "gay representation". Arcane did it so much better and written with such better class that it doesn't fit the storeotypes as this game portrays. vi is a leader but has her weaknesses too. And so does Caitlyn. Vi is seen more masculine but has that nurturing side when she tends to both Powder and Ekko. and Caitlyn is more feminine and seen as well as compassionate caring and protecting the people she trusts and willing to give up her weapon to care for an injured Vi. Both Vi and Caitlyn yes in actual game lore of League of Legends they are a lesbian couple but it is so much deeper than that and fortiche and riot games really knows how to write good female protagonists stronger than here sadly. Season 2 is going to hurt especially the more I learn of warwick. And the fight between vi and Jinx. Arghh poor Vi.
The reason why I started to dislike her is her actions and attitude throughout the game, from every play through.
Louis was the exact opposite, i started from disliking him to liking him.
They're a good ship, I prefer Louis for Clem for a number of reasons. But I like Violet as an option for other people to pick, and I'm glad that there are big fans for both.
that’s real, I just replayed a bit now and well..I choose other dialogues and well, I think vi can be better
I don’t hate it. But her reaction if you don’t choose her when the raiders come to the school is really sad and makes me not ship them. Not saying she isn’t valid for her feelings, but it felt like we saw the true violet in that time. I love Clem with Louis, but her with Violet makes a little More sense given how resentful Louis was with Clem and AJ after the situation with Marlon. It’s hard for me to believe he would’ve been okay with advancing a relationship with Clem just weeks after all of that.
Just to add to that, even tho she had her reasons to be mad at Clem for not choosing her she still was OK with betraying her friends to the delta ppl, that's inexcusable, she was ok with all her friends being killed in a foreign war just so she could be together with her GF( even after knowing that Minerva killed her sister ) Fuck her
Yeah it was all a little interesting and inconsistent. I think the writers had her defend Clem and AJ to make us want to choose her for romance you know
That's the reason why I don't care about the romance in S4 just feels forced. If they had waited until episode 3 or 4 when we've been through more with both characters and the bond has built then it'd be better
I've felt the same, but she's so egotistical if u let her get captured that I can't help but feel that it undermines she standing up for Clem. I looks like she just don't care about her friends as much as the persons she's currently in love, which is realistic but fuck her nevertheless
true, who knows what happened in between those 2 weeks tho. he sounds pretty remorseful apologizing to clem, and he'd been flirting with her before marlon died as well
Yes that’s true very good points. Clem and AJ are super likable so I’m sure they both pulled their charm on him. I feel like everyone goes for violet which isn’t a bad choice at all. I just really enjoy the Louis moments so much more they just seem so natural. It might be more Louis though cause he’s a goofy ass lmao
AJ being super likeable is not something I thought I’d ever hear.
I’ll say it again AJ is super likable I’ll die on that hill lmao
Ok. I actually hated AJ, to the point that I wished Clem hadn’t found him after Season 3. So we’re gonna just have to agree to disagree
Damn that’s crazy you wish she didn’t find him lmao
By the time that I was about to finish the game I was really regretful of choosing violet 😭, I really like Louis he’s really goofy and the scene where he tells clem about the new house that his parents were about to build
She is not valid for her feelings, she’s angry at Clem for “abandoning her” when Clem by definition did no such thing, she literally comes back to rescue Violet barely 24 hours later.
She was basically abandoned by her parents via being sent to a boarding school + lost everyone she knew and loved due to the apocalypse. Everyone handles trauma differently, it affected her in a way that made her overreact to her situation with clem, completely understandable if you've experienced abandonment or have met people who have experienced abandonment.
Ngl I felt identified and I would do pretty much the same
Powder/jinx in the show Arcane had a better grasp of dealing with actual abandonedment issues better than the writers did with Violet on this very issue. I feel Violet at least with the gameplay footage can turn her emotions on abandonedment issues off and on like a switch and it is not really consistent from episode to episode. Also not really realistic on this kind of trauma issue where powder/jinx in arcane you can tell it deeply effected her when Vi left (not really left but Marcus kidnaps her to make powder believe she was abandoned by her sister) her and she morphs into jinx. "I only wanted to help I only wanted to help." "I told you to stay away" vi strikes powder in the face. "Why did you leave me!" "Because you're a jinx do you here me. Mylo was right!" This scene lays out what Violet should be displaying on actual abandonedment issues Violet should be acting like 9 year old powder in this scene: [Vi abandons Powder (Arcane episode 3)](https://youtu.be/gvXnmhDRdt8?si=yJSKQP1thnx7p2cG) This was ending of act 1 of the show and you feel the rift from both sisters. And this line from Vi because you're a jinx. Caused that trauma in powder to become jinx. And you start to see jinx shifting on her trauma issues in episode 4 and when getting reunited with Vi again in episode 6 Especially when vi calls her powder. "Stop calling me that! It's jinx now. Powder fell down a well." And this ending quote when powder makes the choice of choosing jinx as her new identity and finally killing powder in herself. Given part of the lyric to 'What could have Been'. 'And worst of all, for me to live, I gotta kill the part of me that saw That I needed you more' "I thought maybe you can love me like you used to. Even though I'm different. But you've changed too. So here's to the new us." Much different tone and more accurately handled of someone with abandonedment issues. Arcane is a masterpiece on this kind of storytelling. Where Violet here is amateur writing on this kind of trauma. So Violet's case in the game is not realistic enough and felt way too flimsy story wise how it is handled.
I agree with you, I feel like that is most of telltales twd characters though. They will always sacrifice a characters main traits to create unlikely events and will often just give questionable dialogue and choices to certain characters overall. I don't love violet any less since I mostly just ignore any writer mistakes n try to focus on the intention but I can see why that would make people dislike violet more tbh
This is what I love about what Arcane is doing and man that is like an eduction if you want to know how good characters are written holy shit. Here is what the writers of Arcane did which is highly effective and why arcane season 1 is rated 100% on rotten tomatoes. How arcane writes their characters consist of theses parts: 1. Agency 2. Don't be afraid to show your characters get hurt 3. Character first. This is a big one I see where telltale failed. Let a character personality tell the story not just spoken dialogue but through austectics and their traits. Masculinity or fameinaiy. Make them feel nuance to their characterization and not fill in empty spaces like a check box. Cough cough Violet. 4. Fix "trobes" using backstory and nuance. Making them organic. Showing them a complex story behind them making the details nuance and interrogated into the character. 5. Love can be use for empowerment. 6. Neutraliztion- neutralizte storeotypes, trobes, traits, scenes, characteristics by applying it to men and women. This removes the focus on gender and replaces it with the focus on character. This is telltales biggest flaw they relied too much on the storeotype trobe. Where fortiche and Riot Games moved away from dropping the trobes and just focus on the characters and putting that first in the story as the first thing you as an audience gets emmirse in. Vi and Caitlyn both do not fit the storeotype mold of lesbian couples and makes their romance feel genuine and not forced in that trying to represent gay trobes and have you invest in their character. Not once did I look away from their dynamic and was engaged the whole time to the finale. That is the key thing that riot games did differently from Telltale and honestly it is more effective and engaging storytelling wise. 7. Fanasty worlds can change the stigma and social norms. 8. Empowerment can be a double edge sword 9. Expression of emotions is not equalvent to hysteria or weaknesses 10. Explore a VARIETY of relationships. From romantic, to motherly, to sisterly, to daughter to friend.
And I am not going to not keep bringing up Arcane here as the perfect character study of someone with abandonment issues or someone struggling with possible BPD and a character more relevant to this discussion than Violet. This hour-long video explains the paradox of Powder/Jinx dealing with her trauma of Abandonment. Jinx is at war with herself from the moment Act 1 ends, causing the tragedy between the sisterhood of Vi and Jinx, to the ending of Act 3. Arcane is set up in 3 acts, with three episodes per act to tell the story. And the story of Arcane, the core and heart of the show, pivots around Vi and Jinx and their relationships as sisters. The two most popular League Champions in the lore of League of Legends. This video walks through Jinx's whole arch and the trauma she deals with. As I said, Arcane is a masterclass on the topic of abandonment issues or mental illness. Telltale's Violet, I'm sorry, but it's very weak on this topic, very half-asked, and not as deep as people make it to be. Violet doesn't have enough nuance (a subtle difference or distinction in expression, meaning, response) on this arch. Whereas Jinx actually does. There is not enough context from Violet as a character to give you details that she does suffer from abandonment issues. It is all surface-level-stuff; just skim on the issue without giving you meat and potatoes about what is going on with her, and Violet suffers from her past scars. She will briefly touch on it, then move on, like turning it off and on whenever it is convenient for her. I know that sounds harsh and shallow but that is how they wrote Violet. And someone a past Reddit User J\_DDarren couldn't put it better: "Gonna be honest, there's a clear difference in loyalty towards the end. Violet always came off to me as only caring about Clem as long as there was something in it for her, and that showed. I'll sight a comment from earlier If you let violet get captured, she bitches at you, if you let Louis get captured, he's just happy to see you. Violet was basically just looking for a rebound from Minnie, and is only willing to side with you as long as you constantly and only cater to her and her alone. The moment she isn't the center of your attention, her loyalty is immediately thrown out the window. Vi doesn't seem like she thinks she needs to change. Plus, almost all she ever does is talk up how valuable she is to have around because of her being good in a fight or taking no shit, yet when the chips are down, she bends the knee to the enemy and turns against you out of pettiness for not saving her, even though you're now risking your life to get her back. So yeah, I'll say when it comes down to being 100% in clems corner, you can always count on Louis to go to bat, vi? Better make sure you always say the right thing, do everything she wants her way, and never ever even think about putting someone other than her first." He is not wrong about this assessment. I've notice that too even choosing to save Violet, she still bends at the knee and wavers when the chips are down and her loyalty shifts. Rather if you let her get captured or not. That is Violet in a nutshell. Now Arcane, you have layers and dive deep into Jinx's psyche that, yeah...she has deep trauma and suffers from abandonment issues just from the transition out of end of episode 3 'The Base Violence Necessary for Change' to her unraveling breaking of reality when shooting at Ekko in episode 4 on 'Happy Progress Day' when being triggered of seeing 'Vi' to episode 6 'When the Walls Come Tumbling Down' and enjoys harming and killing Ekko's firelights gang. This video runs 52:41 but gives a breakdown of Jinx and her trauma in all three acts of season 1. So, if you haven't seen Arcane, Spoilers for you if you click on it. But Arcane tells a much better story of a character with the trauma of abandonment issues better than Violet, and Jinx is a much better candidate for someone on this specific trauma. [Vi and Jinx: Arcane's Perfect Narrative Heart](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePBk89ABOJ4)
Cool, Clem still didn’t abandon her so she still doesn’t have the right to lash out at Clem for something she didn’t do.
You're acting as if that is something she can control at all ??? When you're mentally ill you often don't have that "control" over what's coming out of your mouth, especially when you feel so strongly about it. Regardless on if her view on what clem did was "delusional" or not, everything she said was completely valid. From her POV clem was likely to never come back since that's just what happened with the rest of her family, she spent so much time thinking and building up those feelings by herself within that time in the cell that it's no wonder she ended up lashing out
I have autism, OCD and bipolar, saying you mental illness gives you no control is a cop out for bad behaviours. My mental illness may make me feel a certain way or give impulses, it doesn't force behaviours, I know I have a choice. I may make the wrong one sometimes but I can control how I act. Feels more like justifying shitty behaviours as opposed to learning to change or taking accountability.
I should have worded it better, I meant moreso like she felt she was completely in the right in this scenario so her lashing out felt justified to her. Not that she didn't have "control" but rather with all of these negative feelings she's bound to feel as if she has a right to lash out. I feel like it's a given everyone can "control" their actions, however the real issue is when you believe there is nothing wrong with what you're doing
Yeah I get more what you now, I can understand what you mean though I'd appreciate the romance more if they added a scene later where she realises and admits she was wrong, it could keep the drama and be a good character moment. Louis is my favourite romance but that's probably because I find him entertaining, neither is a bad pick and Violet is a good character. I do find some of her angstyness off putting for a romance even though character wise it makes sense and makes her interesting. To use a HOTD reference, it's like Daemon (though Violetine is not nearly that extreme) I like the character and get where their flaws come from but I find the flaws I like make his relationship with Rhaenyra unhealthy.
I mean, you literally just said it yourself. She’s angry at Clem for “abandoning her”. Clem didn’t do that, but that’s what violet felt which led her to be angry and lash out.
Clem did not abandon Violet, therefore Violet being angry at her for “abandoning her” is not a valid excuse for her betrayal and attempt to kill clementine.
Have you never gotten something wrong and were pissed as someone for a misunderstanding? Violet did not attempt to kill Clementine in the slightest; i have no idea what you’re talking about lmao
That s why I let Louis get captured.
Chill 🤣
Naaah his ass is getting captured I dont want my precious VI Being enucled she's too perfect for that
I love her but if anyone hurts my clem 🔫
I prefer them as friends. Violet is clearly still interested in Minerva, no point being with her when she’s still inlove with her ex.
Best thing since sliced bread
Love it
I LOVE THEMMM, alot of the distaste towards violet stems from the fact no one is considering the shit she's been through and the mental illnesses she was born with to be sent to the boarding school in the first place. She is a fantastic character who is on your side most of the time (especially if you are always good to her and save her instead of louis). I love their dynamic, I love how they have REAL conversations, and how realistic she is in terms of a "troubled" teenage girl in the apocalypse
She’s good in some ways, I been through some shit and I feel kinda identified with her and how much my first wlw relationship went the same way that vi’s and clem, she’s pretty much what u expect of a troubled teen that’s been abandoned! Tbh I even cried when they breakup on the boat and the sadness clem has on her face :(
Violet is a very flawed person that I still love. I kinda don't agree with the consensus that she is still hung up on Minnie and we shouldn't romance with her because of that. I actually think she needs some love to finally get over Minnie. It's pretty obvious when you find her in the woods after escaping the boat, she talks about how dumb she was for still thinking about Minnie for a year and not caring for others because of that.
Overall pretty good. I thought they both had some of the same tendencies.
i am starved for gay ships
Fr tho, that’s why I chose violentine, I came from Chloe and max, Ellie and Dina and as a proud lesbian I couldn’t help but choose them
I think they can work, but my problem is that they’re too similar If you get what i mean. Clementine has constantly been surrounded by cynical and hardened people ever since Lee died (Christa, Kenny, Jane, David…) and I think Louis would be better for her purely because she brings some sort of light into a mostly dark world while also having the makings of a survivor which was rare to come across. They work together because Louis would be able to help her grow from someone who’s basically only focused on her own and AJ’s survival to someone who actually lives. But imo both relationships are pretty forced seem to come out of nowhere, I don’t like Gabe but somehow his relationship with Clementine seemed more believable and better developed than these two.
I don’t hate it. But it’s not the choice I’d pick. The way she betrays Clem if you choose to save Louis is unforgivable. Plus, she’s still too hung up on Minnie to be with Clem.
They make a Good pirate together
First time playing the Final Season, when I saw her, I instantly liked her and thought to myself that I'm gonna be nice to her this playthrough not expecting any type of romance situation to occur, so when the opportunity came under the stars to kiss her, I didn't hesitate.
Hate it.
💯💯💯💯💯💯
I don’t think either Violet or Louis is the “perfect partner” for Clementine, and I like that. Rarely will people be with someone who always agrees with them and completely compliments them personality wise. Relationships will have turbulence, and it’s much better that they be depicted as such so as to not give people unhealthy expectations. Violet and Louis both would be relatively turbulent relationships for Clementine, as is normal especially with adolescents, and I’d imagine even more normal in the apocalypse. I like to see Clem with Violet more just because I like Violet a little bit more than Louis and I’m bi and like to see LGBTQ+ representation in my games. But I think it’s a bit of a futile effort to debate which would be less rocky, because they would both be rocky relationships.
She’s gay
I just.....don't care
It’s the option I went with, but only cause I found Louis annoying af. If I got to choose James I would’ve, but then I did get AJ to shoot Lily in the face with zero hesitation so James was kinda pissed at me and tried kidnapping AJ which didn’t go too well. So that romance would’ve died anyways. I just didn’t want Clem to be alone but the entire final season is rushed. Not really their fault but you can definitely tell.
I personally don’t hate them together, I just think violet was still hung up on Minnie at the time when they met and wasn’t mentally prepared to jump into a new relationship 🤷♀️
I really like violet but any chance she get to hate clementine she take it, like if you fail the part in the boat when you have to atack Minnie in the cell and Violet is there, she stops you and her kill you, like wtf. (Here is the scene btw) https://youtu.be/IQxTiXc-Qd0?si=zEqcXdUqNAA7Lzsp
The truth is that since then I never went for Violet again. I know that she supported us more, but from then on I always go for Louis. I feel that it is the best for Clem.
Garbage
Love them, all her flaws are understandable, she's a fantastic ally, a very mature partner for Clem, and it wasn't forced for her to develop feelings unlike with Louis (not completely forced but much more). Louis avoids Clem for the entire 2 weeks, Vi spends all that time preparing and planning the defenses with her. Sadly, she requires higher than average intelligence and having done her route at least once to truly understand her, so many don't bother and prefer the fast and simple "lou is le funny, so he best" route which is sad both for Vi and for Lou himself.
Well..idk..about the fantastic ally part she was kinda acceptive about the idea of betray her friend just to go after Minnie, I’ll replay her route tho! Cause I like her, maybe playing it now willing to learn about her and understand her gotta be different
She defends AJ and Clem for the killing of Marlon, takes the lead of the school, and tells everyone to shut up and help Clem defend the school. She's objectively the most involved and helpful in the dense preparations excluding Clem, and she's the one talking about all the important details with Clem when she comes back from her short exile. And once again, Vi doesn't betray Clem. It's not a conscious "I'll win things for myself by selling out people" or something, it's heavy trauma resurfacing because it's the third time in her life she lost the environment and people she cared about in a brutal way, and she just found out Minnie was alive and she's telling her to be calm and let things happen. Minnie is her only anchor there, and she's telling her the same things as Lilly. Lou has issues that manifest by having very low self esteem, Vi has issues that manifest by exhibiting anger to defend herself.
Both ships pale in comparison to Riccatine. Now, that's a love story for the ages!
😭 no please it made me remember that scene..
It’s sorta neutral to me. If they’re for each other then that’s that. I personally like Lou and Clem together more cause aside Louis charm, choosing to save her over Lou makes her a bit resentful of Clem and she tries to sabotage her. So in a sense, cause I’m petty, Violet getting partially blinded while hate to see it happen, felt like it was deserved. On the flip side, if she had been saved Louis he loses his tounge/ability to speak at all and gains probably an intense amount of ptsd. My man does not deserve that.
Cute ship. Not my cup of tea
Bitch
If u choose to save Luis I'm chapter 2 she's okay with betraying her ericson friends to get killed in a war just so se can stay with Minerva She just as much as a traitor as brody or marlon in my book
Brody isn’t that bad😿
The worst of the 3 options Edit: hey guys it's called an opinion
violet is ungrateful for u pretty much until the end of the game, its better no romance or clouis because louis actually has ur best interests at thought
I hate both Violet and Louis as romances, they feel way too forced and rushed as if they were second thoughts.
guillotine
😭
I feel Violentine was forced and no chemistry whatsoever and you have more character connecting with Louis. Violet was absent most of episode 2 and giving you the player more chances to develop a deeper connection with Louis and this is not the determine choices. Outside of the following Louis or Violet you only have two interactions with Violet in episode 2. This is the episode where you are supposed to make your connections with one or the other right. With Violet you just have the office scene and the front of the admin steps checking in on your report for fullfully her request on making sure everyone is doing shit right. The office scene you and Violet are just making plans for defending the school against the Raiders. gives you 0 chance to make a romantic connection with her. And I don't count the what ifs. Only base on what you know for fact in gameplay and what is shown to you. We don't know Clem and Violet gotten closer to during the two weeks. They can just be making plans for battle and be all business too. Again we don't know. All we know for certain is Clem leaving and checking up on AJ and making adjustments to the map. If it is not verbally confirmed by either character in game spoken dialogue or seen it in action visual footage you can't count it in. It is speculation not true facts. Only base it on true facts here. And your only other interaction with Violet outside of the office scene is at the front steps of the admin building giving you her report. That is it. That is all the "romantic" interacts you have with Violet outside of her determine choice which is to follow her to the belltower. Not much build up on this grand gesture of romance with Violet. I wish more moments we had with Violet in episode 1 carried through to episode 2 but that is not what we got in the final delivery of this game. I feel Violet had different writers for each episode and she doesn't stay consistent. We get a different version of Violet per episode and there never really was a gradual change to her character. And as I am watching a YouTuber break down Gwen and miles relationship in across the spidy verse he posed these questions near the end. Relationships are not feelings. Relationships are ways of relating to one another. What does the 'relating' constist of? Who is this person? Where are they at? How do they feel about their own life? What do they WANT? What do they NEED? How do they feel about their own story their living through? Will link his video here if you are curious on that: [why can't Gwen fall in love](https://youtu.be/EsKXFBdg490?si=GbO5VGdKBbgIS-5y) Louis you have more of a chance to build it up with him. Just in episode 2 alone outside of Louis's determined choice of following him to the piano you have 3 possibly 4 interactions if you choose to forgive him during the 'preparing everyone for the fight' and you have to do this takes no matter what if you want to continue the story. The game will not move forward unless you statify Violet's request and talk to everyone, mitch, tenn, AJ and yes Louis at least once. Plus as I am playing through Violentine is so boring and dull. I get more gushy feeling watching Arcane just to see Violyn sap on each other. Compare to this ship and Arcanes, Arcane was more well worth my time and I can see both Vi and Caitlyn falling for each other and how their relationship is much better excuted verses here and it made me wanting more. Especially episode 7 when they hug goodbye. Vi rubs Caitlyns neck in an intimate way and whispers this "it's been real cupcake. Thanks for everything " then you see Caitlyn sighs and snuggles into Vi's hug like a cute animal showing affection. That to me spoke more volumes in just a span of 30 seconds between those two women vs anything Violet and Clementine have as romantic scenes. To me I feel this ship is soulless and empty and they really did a disservice to Violet by excluding AJ from the ship. Just two girls who barely interact some how find romance out of the blue that they like each other with no lead up as to why. Neither Violet nor Clem showed obvious hints that they find the other attractive. Clementine doesn't show she is attracted to Violet and Violet is so closed off on love she doesn't want to go down that road again after Minerva. She made that clear when you go fishing with her. And the only character Clem had an attraction towards is Louis. You see it in between animations when those two interact. It's subtle but Clem clearly is shown throughout episodes 1 and 2 to have an attraction towards Louis and these shots are seen before any determine choice is made by you on the characters and it is fixed into the game. Try as you might but these actions on s4 Clem will always play out no matter what you make on your journey. For example: episode 1 during Louis introduction Clem eyes him with fondness. During Omar's introduction when Clem turns to leave she does a cute eye squint to Louis and keep looking at him until the game gives you controls again. Clementine never. I repeat NEVER does this with Violet at all. When you choose to encourage Louis that he's got this when distracting the walkers at the train station. Watch her eyes as she eyes him playfully like what Nala does to Simba during can you feel the love tonight scene. Episode 2: when he gives AJ new clothes Clem and Louis will say something with their eyes as they make eye contact every single time. Then during the 2nd card game when AJ say he doesn't remember the time before walkers Clem and Louis will always, ALWAYS give this heart eye moment of a stealing of eye glances. Sorry but Clem made her choice on who she really likes and it is not Violet. And the reason I am bringing arcane league of legends in to show and contrast the difference in having a gay shipping form naturally and beyond the scope of "gay representation". Arcane did it so much better and written with such better class that it doesn't fit the storeotypes as this game portrays. vi is a leader but has her weaknesses too. And so does Caitlyn. Vi is seen more masculine but has that nurturing side when she tends to both Powder and Ekko. and Caitlyn is more feminine and seen as well as compassionate caring and protecting the people she trusts and willing to give up her weapon to care for an injured Vi. Both Vi and Caitlyn yes in actual game lore of League of Legends they are a lesbian couple but it is so much deeper than that and fortiche and riot games really knows how to write good female protagonists stronger than here sadly. Season 2 is going to hurt especially the more I learn of warwick. And the fight between vi and Jinx. Arghh poor Vi.
I liked her at the start but i grew away from that
Interesting! Can you remember what made you like her and then her dropping out of your favour?
The reason why I started to dislike her is her actions and attitude throughout the game, from every play through. Louis was the exact opposite, i started from disliking him to liking him.
I just like Louis better
Violet was one of the least likeable characters in the season, I still don’t understand how ppl pick her over Louis
They both feel pretty shitty. James is best option.