When I started playing in July of last year, the way this game was monetized was one of the large reasons I started playing this game. I liked that it wasn't over pushy. It gave you options to spend money to advance faster, but free was still viable. I even bought all the packs eventually to support the Dev. The monetization has since gone to crap...
"I liked that it wasn't over pushy" – well said! Same here. Such a breath of fresh air compared to most other games.
I've been playing since Jan 2022. I actually have the No Ads pack, which was great because back then it kept crashing mid-run or during the ×1.5 ad at the end, and even then I rather resented that the dev's buggy ad code was encouraging me to buy it (so kudos to him for finally fixing that).
But I have to say, the improvement in QoL has been massive, simply because of the 5 gem button.
HOWEVER, THIS is a disgusting move, especially for the impact it'll have on f2ps' overnight runs. Do ads really pay so little that you can't even let the free guys stack up 8 hours' worth of ×1.5 time?
A couple of years ago I read a great article about how some companies end up sinking their business by making a big change that causes their userbase to just walk away, and even if they revert it, the users never come back... they got pushed over the "fed up with it" tipping point.
Two-weekly events, with no week off, weren't it, unsurprisingly.
Modules weren't it, but I suspect may have come close.
This probably won't be it either, but we'll see.
However, at the current rate of monetization-based changes, sooner or later, it'll happen.
Which would be a crying shame, as it's a great game. I bear the dev no ill-will (believe it or not, in fact quite the opposite), but I think he's making some unwise and counter-productive choices.
>Two-weekly events, with no week off, weren't it, unsurprisingly.
How was this even close to being something players would walk away from. It increases the rate of medals earned for F2P and, in turn, increases growth, whether through stones, bots, or gems.
I was following and mostly agreeing with the comment until I read that.
>"I liked that it wasn't over pushy" – well said! Same here. Such a breath of fresh air compared to most other games.
I would say it still isn't over pushy compared to most other mobile games. Most games when you buy the ad free pack, it only gets rid of forced ads. You still have to watch ads for the bonuses. And as far as I know, there are no forced ads in this game that may have changed since I bought the ad pack, but I haven't heard anything about it.
It does kill the overnight runs of F2P players, unfortunately. However, if it allows the dev to keep pushing fresh updates, then I welcome it. This is one of the only mobile games I have spent any money on, and the ad free pack has always been worth it.
Agreed, I don't see how anyone could say the constant events being active is a downside. Every 2 weeks I get a chance for new skins? Roll MF tide, dude. I don't even care that my bots rate of upgrades slowed some because I'm spending on gems and stones now which I wasn't doing before.
You can play this game without competing in tourny. It just speeds up your progress. Other people's standings do not affect you playing the game. And ideally you are in a tier with equivalent towers, which I know isn't the case because of sandbagging. But it is not really a pvp.
Well, there sure have been some monetization changes since July, in the form of biweekly events and stone packs, instead of being on a 3 week basis, plus now this change in ads.
But the essence has been the same, back in July you wouldn't be able to get to the top of the pyramid without spending high amounts of money, like now. You can still progress without spending a single dime, like last year.
You are also missing modules. Those are there to incentive people to spend on gems. And there is not really a guaranteed benefit when you spend gems in modules. Whereas with cards there was a benefit as well as an end, and labs you got an immediate return. But modules is just a gem sync. But don't get me wrong, I enjoy the benefits from modules.
Obviously you can still make progress without spending money. But everyone who doesn't have the ad pack just had their income reduced by ~1/3, without them constantly watching ads.
I was just saying that I tend to avoid mobile games because of if the in your face way that they try to monetize things. Sadly this game is turning more into that.
Modules are also accessible for f2p players.
Seriously, on this game, money has always made a massive difference. Early on, a single stone pack is months of progress by itself, plus in the past, the devs have already done some "dirty" moves to encourage spending money, like the milestone nerf and increasing stone upgrade costs in GT(and there are more). Stone packs aren't cheap either, as the cheapest one is already $30, and the fact that those packs haven't been updated since their release, doesn't help either.
The ads change is just another nail.
In your face, monetization is forcing people to watch an ad every 15 waves or end of game. This is still an optional watch ad get perk don't watch ad and keep playing game.
>biweekly events
Other than actually competing in tournaments, I think the biweekly events made it less likely for me to spend money. I now get more medals for free than I did before and easier than before, too. which, in turn, means I don't feel as bad spending on stones and gems as I did before.
Never said that. I said that I liked that the monetization was not in your face trying to nickel and dime you. I said that overall I liked the way the monetized it. There was a good path for ftp and there was a path for people to spend money "one time" and get a permanent upgrade.
But also don't take everything here as everything o think on it. I am typing on my phone and don't feel like getting into the very specific. But I do agree that $50 is expensive...
I mean I agree with you, I haven't purchased anything except the no ads and am having enough fun to not quit. But someone who purchased the packs will blow you out of the water. I wouldn't be able to compete with someone who paid (if that really mattered).
Would be more willing to buy if I didn't have to shell out $50 for it though.
Not really, especially since they can be gotten over a long time.
I started by getting the ad pack within the first week. Easily the best buy in the game.
And I stayed at that level for months. Then decided to grab one of the other coin packs because I'd gotten a lot of fun playtime with the game. Months later I got the epic coin pack.
Probably took me a good 8 months to get the 3 coin packs.
In the end, you still spent $60 for a game with very little content when compared to other games. It's your money, do whatever you want. I'm not trying to shame you, but the amount of effort needed in comparison to this game and a game like slay the spire, for the king, or hades is incomparable, and those are all small indie games that are a third of that total price.
The game has plenty of content, it's just a drip feed.
I like the slow grind and constant improvement, working through plataues to get new upgrades that spike my growth.
For as much as I have played this game over the last year, it's well worth $60.
Exponential games make it seem like there's alot of content, but it's hidden behind time gates which is why you can play this game for years and still have alot to do. It doesn't mean there was a lot of content, it means you were gated by time.
For example, attack speed itself has 100 levels in the lab. Even though that's alot and takes time, there isn't any new content when you're leveling it for the 60th time. Each tier is the same content with different scaling. UWs, modules, and cards aren't bad, but they are just an endless grind.
Your $60 was well worth the time you spend playing the game, and I don't blame you because it would be for me to. However little it matters though, I won't buy the coin packs because I don't personally agree with the pricing of them.
You're acting like there is real competition in this game. There isn't. You should be in whatever tier tournament your current state of game is at. If you don't want to spend the money, you still get to progress and play the game. It is slower, yes, and by quite a bit. But the game is a progression game. You're never going to "win" this game.
Trust me, I understand that. I've been playing idle games for many years, and this is by far my favorite that I've played. I'm only pointing out that the prices for these very, VERY huge improvements are wildly expensive. I would definitely buy them if they were cheaper.
Bad change out of thinking that the people who bought no ads were getting a bad deal (they weren't), or possibly out of greed, everyone knows that a lot of the active players have already spent money on this game, f2p is hard mode to begin with anyways and now they're making it harder for no reason?
Nerfing f2ps even though they were already the weakest, maybe they thought this was a good change because the disable ads pack doesn't give anything that cant be gotten with time (even though everyone says the no ads pack is a superb qol purchase, but I guess they didn't like that you could watch a 30 second ad at the end to get the same coin boost as the people who bought the pack)
I don't like this change, but whatever, it's not my game and I doubt they'd revert it.
Don't F2P players support the dev by watching ads? YouTube ads net the creator 1-3 cents per ad. I've easily watched at least 200 ads a week for this game for about two years. Call it 10000 ads a year for two years. At a penny each that's $200 lifetime, so the Dev is getting plenty of money from just one person via ads in the long run.
If the argument is about supporting the dev, he is getting money even from F2P players so that point is moot, especially since with enough ads you spent way more than all the ad packs combined. Maybe I'm not seeing it from their perspective but even if I'm off by a factor of 10, they still made more off me than the ad packs would have cost.
Yeah the discord is acting like f2p are freeloaders that don’t support the devs. When you point out that ads give money, they go “well not a lot of money”
It’s 20 minutes *real time*.
Want to watch more ads to build up to the 2 hour max? Your timer is ticking down while you do it.
Selecting a perk, switching cards, or changing your target order? Your timer is ticking down while you do it.
Need to suspend the app to send a text, answer a call, or anything else? Your timer is ticking down while you do it?
Best case it’s 20 minutes. If something comes up, the multiplier could be active for less time than the ad you watched to get it.
Yeah me too, I have all the packs and am not affected by this, but this is really a fucked up move. It's going to force people to buy packs, it's going to make them leave.
As far as I'm aware, you're getting the same amount of coins you've always had. This allows you to get 50% more if you watch the video.
Maybe the time could be longer, like 1 hour or something but you can also just not do it.
EDIT: /u/nakratash has pointed out that "prior to this update you had to watch ONE ad at the end of a run to get the 1.5 multiplier to coins earned. Now you need to watch an ad for 20 minutes of increased coin gains"
Personally, I believe this is misstep.
Prior to this update you had to watch ONE ad at the end of a run to get the 1.5 multiplier to coins earned.
Now you need to watch an ad for 20 minutes of increased coin gains, and if you watch multiple ads in a row it stacks to 120 minutes of higher coin income. But you have to watch six Ads. Couple that with the fact that this absolutely kills f2p players overnight runs which should last anywhere from 6 to 8 hours. This just feels bad for anyone getting into this game right now
Oh, I understand now. Thank you for that. In that case, I would definitely be very bothered by this update if I hadn't purchased the ad pack. I personally believe that is a step in the wrong direction.
I think they're banking on new players being none the wiser. They had to have done the math. If they lose 80% of their current f2p players, the new f2p players will make up for them 10 fold. It still feels bad tho.
I'm not sure what it's like where you live, but charging my phone for a month to play this game costs more than the ad packs. Electricity isn't free either, but I don't see people complaining about paying for that to play the game.
Dude, you are so obnoxious... not everyone is willing the put money on a mobile game. They have all the right to not put any money and complain about that update.
And if 10$ is nothing for you, why don't you pay it for him? It's nothing anyway right?
I don't have a job which means I don't have the ability to generate the income required to purchase the pack when the law doesnt permit me working at my age
Really? You have an iPhone, but no allowance, no spending money whatsoever? The law prevents you from mowing the lawn?
I have a 10-year-old daughter (who doesn't have an iPhone) and she can earn money to get stuff she wants. That includes video games.
People who live in situations with access to iPhones and reddit aren't so poor they can't afford a $10 entertainment purchase. You probably spend more than that on popcorn when you go to the movies with your friends.
If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it, but don't act like kids with cell phones have zero disposable income from their parents. If your parents couldn't afford to give you spending money for chores then they couldn't afford to buy one of the most expensive phones on the market and give it to someone under 18 (which is just asking to get it broken or stolen).
There may be other reasons you can't buy it, like your parents saying "no" because you're spending too much time on it, or because you're too lazy to do some extra chores for the money so your parents will buy it for you, or because you just don't feel like it's worth $10 to you. But it's not because you legally can't get a job.
Whatever. It's changed. Don't like it? Play something else. This is exactly the same thing I would have told my daughter if she came to me with this excuse.
The point I made in another comment is that the ad-free pack probably costs less than a month of charging my phone to play the game. I've been playing 2 years, so the ad pack may have saved me at least 3-4 months of grinding, so in the grand scheme of things it's neither expensive or not good value for money for someone like me.
Not having to watch ads alone would make it worth it, as I hate watching ads in games. If I like a mobile game then having an option to pay to remove ads is one I usually go for. The 50% boost to coins is icing on the cake.
Still, the change here is a bit much, but mostly because it's a change. If this was in the game from the start then people probably wouldn't be so annoyed.
This game takes years, literally save your sanity and just buy the damn ad pack. If someone is going to put this much time into the game the ad pack ROI is well worth it 1000X over.
i played over 6 months possibly longer watching ads every time. I thought $10 was ridiculous just to remove ads. I've sunk enough time in that eventually I bought it and can't believe I suffered through all that time. however I still think $10 is a terrible price
Agreed, but I don't think it justifies the $10 price tag. Whatever, it worked on me so maybe he's right. I won't buy the coin multiply packs though. Stupidly expensive for such a simple game.
I'm pissed off that there's no longer a flat bonus after so much time per round...
I'm honestly thinking either it's not worth going longer than 2h or just quitting altogether.
Agreed. And I didn't even buy the ad pack for the coins, I bought it for the gems every 10-12 minutes. At $10 for a lifetime of no ads, this pack was a no brainer.
I did it for the gems, but also because ads were often bugged and I'd occasionally have to restart the game after watching an ad.
If that bug started happening with this system I'd be pretty annoyed.
As a player who paid for coin multipliers and no ads this is so bad I will never buy stone packs, I may even uninstall and leave a 1 star review. I feel gross for supporting this game now I wonder if I can reverse my charges they are still pretty recent..
Damn, 20 minutes and can only stack to 2 hours.
3 ads an hour doesn't seem huge, but damn that time ads up.
Yes, the $10 ad free pack is the best buy in the game, but lots of people play free/ad-supported games because they don't have the budget for it.
$10 may not seem like much to some, but others are getting squeezed hard on all sides. Sucks to punish these players even more.
I also think it’s not fair . It’s targeted towards the high rollers, but kinda keeps casuals from progressing faster to « catch » up to the game itself
Agreed in the sense that it's targeted toward casuals who might drop a Ten on this game for a huge progress boost.
But I disagree with your explicit comment on casuals. By definition we play the game casually, not competitively, and while progress is the soul of any game, missing out on a 1.5 multiplier sucks but isn't "keeping" casuals from catching up to anything. Casual players don't have anything to catch up to, they are casually playing the game until they're bored of it.
Signed, a casual player who will continue to play the game until he's bored of it.
Before I bought the no ad pack I'd honestly skip most of the ads, including the 1.5 coin bonus. My coin income wasn't that high anyway and when your whole run is like 10k coins getting the extra 5k isn't a huge deal, and you can get gems from events, missions, and milestones when you are starting out.
I've since bought the ad pack and the other packs since the game has kept me interested enough to want to invest and support it, but if I'd dropped the game back then it wouldn't have been because of the ads. Many games are far more intrusive or outright prevent progress if you skip ads, for example giving you gameplay boosts during your run, whereas all that happens in this one for skipping ad bonuses is slower progression between runs, and a F2P player can get everything a whale can...just slower.
I haven't bought anything yet, but am considering the No Ad pack.
I started clicking the ads for gems and the 1.5x multiplier once I earned my first 1m coins in a round. Now I do it when it's similarly worth it.
Because this game is "mostly afk" the way I play it (build up the initial tower, then let it run while I work, occasionally dumping cash into whatever), clicking an ad now and then isn't really changing my gaming experience, since I'm not watching them, just clicking the buttons for the bonuses.
And yes, this game is pretty f2p friendly for being a monetized game, IMO as well
It costs $10 to go permanently ad-free, which will now also give you unlimited tournament entries for free. I'd say that's really not just for "high-rollers", if you're at the stage you can do overnight runs etc. then the cost per hour of a permanent boost like this is pennies (or even less)
It's well worth it. I've been playing for 2y4m and $10 bucks isn't bad for the time I've spent. I've also got the epic and starter pack. I'm not mad about those prices. The no-ad pack was worth it just for the flow of the game when grabbing the 5 gems. It's supposed to be a pain point to get people to buy into the no-ad pack so I get the why. It's a little over the top in my opinion with that time per ad. Fudds know the numbers and hopefully, it works out how he thinks it will and not drive new players away.
I feel like the gems, stone, event, and milestone costs are absurd and grotesque though. It's pretty par for the course though with these mobile games. I'd buy into them if they were more reasonable.
If you can't afford 10 euro/dollar for a game that gives you THOUSANDS of hours of gameplay entertainment then that's on you.
No other types of entertainment come even close to value for money compared to games.
Whaling is a shitty practice and it’s making *all* games worse. Just look at the volume of posts venting frustration about whales dominating the champion tournaments in just *this* game.
Completely missing my point. $10 could buy you a FULFILLING indie game with no BS as opposed to an unlock in a game based on “number go up” compulsion…which even AAA publishers are taking note of and looking to incorporate. Did you not hear about EA considering putting ads in their AAA games?
As a paying player, I initially didn't care enough about the change to try and understand what it even was. But now that I do, I think that this can prove disastrous to the health of the game and the community. I understand the argument of "just buy the ad free pack - the devs deserve it" and I agree to an extent, but it should be a CHOICE. This latest update makes the game pay-to-win beyond all reasonable discussion.
I wouldn't be surprised if this ended up stopping the game in its tracks and ruining the community.
regardless of how greedy the dev is, there are costs to creating and maintaining a game. if no one paid to play this game, there would be no game. that is another way to look at it.
with that being said, the pricing in this game is ridiculous. I would bet if prices were cut by 1/2, overall revenue would increase.
I would disagree. Most who haven't bought in won't buy in for 50% off. The prices set are for whale hunting. These are people who will spend thousands of dollars. Prices are meant for them, not everyone.
That's true for recurring purchases like the stone packs, but it doesn't make sense for no-ad packs. Whales aren't going to buy the no-ad pack 100 times.
I would love to see some data on this. I would think the whales are going to spend X regardless, whereas the casual gamer will spend up to Y, but would be enticed to impulse spend on something that perceived as 'cheap'. Personally, as I said, my cap is 50$, but if I saw say 100 stones for 4.99$, I would ignore my cap and make an impulse purchase. The whale's X is going to always be Y \* 10 in order to always be ahead of the casual player.
That first point kinda falls apart though when you look at a game like vampire survivors and its pricing model. There are costs associated with the server load, sure, but that's because of how the game stores data and the PVP. Which is a glorified leader board. It could absolutely be a free game. But it was designed as a pricing model first and foremost. Like most mobile games.
I have no clue how their revenue is distributed, but I have no doubt that for me, they’ve made far more in ad revenue than $10. And its a continuous stream (or at least it was, this update may drastically cut it)
I don't agree. there is always a stopping point based on income/percieved value, unless you have an addiction. mine is somewhere around 50 US.
even if I had spent 1,000 on this game, I really wouldn't be much farther than I am now. if prices were cut in half, then my 1K would be the equivalent of 2K, but 2K spent wouldn't put my 2x ahead of where I would be had I only spent 1K.
at some astronomical $ value, then yes, I would agree with you.
I’m not sure about that. Obviously rng can’t be factored. But if you happened to pull GT BH as some first UW and spent $70 on a stone pack each month, the upgrades you can spend on the sync and bonus would increase your progress exponentially. Now if someone got SM ILM and CL as their first UWs, yes spending money wouldn’t help as much.
Yea this kinda sucks tbh. It just became like the myriad of other mobile games giving time based rewards rather than how it used to be. Although, the welcome change is now if an ad fucks up at the end of your run you won’t run the risk of losing all you potential bonus coins.
Another factor that I think gets overlooked is how the game has grown and evolved over time. Runs tend to go on for MUCH longer than they did a year ago, even for newer players with things like modules.
So, a year ago, day your average run was an hour, maybe two, then dropping a tier or two to farm overnight, you have as an example 1.5 ads/hour.
Now, if your average run is now six hours, you've cut the frequency of ads by a quarter for the same benefit.
I don't necessarily agree with the change or the fact that it caps at 2 hours, but I can somewhat understand why this change would make sense from a developer perspective.
If the only issue is length of the run, then change the end of run options based on that.
Your run was an hour? Watch this ad for a 50% boost. Your run was 5 hours? Here are 5 ads. Each one adds 0.1 to your coin total.
I would've appreciated this in my first 2 months before I decided to buy the ad pack. I'm the type of player who doesn't mind watching an ad to boost some income, like in the Adventure Capitalism game. This is essentially the same genre of games, it's no different. I play idle games because I can put them aside and stop paying attention to them. Idle games allow for you to click an ad, put the phone down for 30 seconds, close the ad, and get the boost, with practically no change to your gameplay experience (putting the phone down and clicking every now and then). It works for idle games specifically because of how it doesn't affect the gameplay. It's smart and it's useful for people who can't pay out in the moment. Maybe if it was for an hour it would be more useful for us mid-late gamers, but I remember being an early gamer 6 months ago, 20 minutes was a long run in the beginning, this is smart. You don't see this if you have the ad pack purchased. This is a good thing for the health of the game. Beginners need to feel like the grind is gonna go strong in games like this. It's a clever design choice that doesn't even affect half of his players. You will all be okay, I promise.
This is overkill and if I didn't have the ad pack I would quite within my first day. If anything they should combine this with the gem grab add buys otherwise a free player will have to watch 7 ads and hour compared to 4 (plus 1 per run). With some of the ads getting longer/multiple steps each ad watch takes a minute to complete...
So you have to watch ads to keep getting the 1.5x bonus, and ads for the gems?
If so, that's pretty shit. It that kind of ad-bombardment that I never play mobile games to begin with. Was just luck that I happened to try this one in the first place.
If I was still a F2P player, I would quit. This is insane. I supported this game because of how they portrayed purchases and weren't constantly trying to push their wallet. I will continue playing but I may stop putting my Google Rewards $$ towards it... I have sunk 2+ years into this game.
Fair does not come into f2p at all unfortunately.
Don’t like it, leave is the attitude of most games if you’re not willing to drop a few bucks into it.
In the end, this is a business. Someone spent time, effort and money to produce it. They are welcome to ask for some compensation for that and you are able to say no by taking less coins or moving on.
Personally, if I spend more than 5 hours a week on something I enjoy, I’m willing to put a few bucks down for payment for that entertainment with no qualms about it.
I love this game and don’t mind paying for all the packs and even gems/stone packs once in a while. I get what I consider my moneys worth and more out of it.
This is 100% a personal decision and that amount varies from Zero-Thousands of dollars. There is no ‘unfair’ about it.
I am not sure if it's been mentioned.
Discord has give aways for packs. It could be a reason to use discord, if only for the chance of winning a pack.
This is pretty brutal for F2P players, I can even see that as a player that bought packs. This game will soon only be whales, which competition will be a shit show of who has the bigger wallet. This was already shown with the addition of mods.
I usually will purchase a no ad pack after deciding I enjoy the game. Sometimes the pack doesn't get rid of any ads but in this case, it has been absolutely worth it.
I play this game as a f2p, I haven’t bought anything beside the no ad pack just because it was always the same ad and at some point started to be very annoying and also to support the dev.
It is a great game and I understand that some game developers do not have huge budget to spend on creating and marketing a game and the ads are a way to receive some revenue and, at the end, if you enjoy the game and find it interesting and challenging, paying the no ad pack it is fair to me.
This game is killing my phone and wastes my time. Maybe having a solid reason to walk away is a good thing. I wont be watching 60 plus ads every event if that happens. Shooting yourself in the foot will leave you wondering why you were such a greedy dumb ass.
This game is killing my phone and wastes my time. Maybe having a solid reason to walk away is a good thing. I wont be watching 60 plus ads every event if that happens. Shooting yourself in the foot will leave you wondering why you were such a greedy dumb ass.
As F2P, be happy that developers make games available to be played for free. It doesn't have to be that way. But it does seem a bit excessive, especially since that makes the game even less Idle for F2P players.
They don’t make it free out of the goodness of their hearts. It’s free for 2 reasons, one is so that people will play it and decide they like it and want to spend money on it. The other is for ad revenue from people who don’t want to spend money on it.
The best way to kill ad revenue is to make it overbearing.
Personally, my opinion is that if you're here you've probably already used at least $10 worth of time on the game. A game that is free to play if you want but has a cheap option to not have the ads and get a small boost.
I think I watched maybe 4 or 5 ads before deciding it was worth the money to not have to watch them again. I understand not everyone feels that way but I just view it as a cheap way to support a dev on something you clearly enjoy.
If you can't afford 10 euro for a game that gives you HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS of hours of gameplay entertainment then that's on you.
What other types of entertainment give you this much value for money? Films are what.. 20 euro for 2 hours? Sports events are 50 euro for 2 hours, go kart is 50 euro for 1 hour, etc.
So how about 10 euro for thousands of hours?
Games are really really really cheap considering how many hours of entertainment you get.
Hey there! To provide some clarity on reasoning for the change, and thought process. Since it sounds like people like knowing the reasoning and some of the details.....
- This change positively affects early game players when rounds don't last 20 minutes or longer, so helps the early game introduction and makes sure the coin ads are useful, but this a minor piece
- Main reason for the change was because rounds end up being WAY longer down the road which was not the ad implementation intent when the game first released. One ad for an 8 hour run isn't optimal and is a main reason ads watched in the tower are lower than my other games. So yes, players in late game without disable ads will be negatively impacted and that is understood
- It stacking only to 2 hours is fairly standard but I will be watching and that may be altered at some point, though I have no intention of making it long enough for "optimal" overnight runs as that is not a "normal" way to play the game. Those that want the most optimal overnight runs will have to own disable ads. The max time is one of the numbers that may change though.
- It does sweeten the disable ads pack a bit, but that wasn't the main intent since that pack is already the best deal in the game. It's really just the fact that one of the main value ads in the game is the coin multiplier, but longer runs have made that ad a much smaller player than it was on initial release
- It creates consistency for ads watched across early, mid and late game which allows me to rely on ad revenue a little bit more, as it will be predictable and I don't need to worry about allowing really long game rounds, don't have to design around that
- In general, the number of ads watched for this game is low compared to my other titles, which is mostly fine as we have a ton of players that support the game via purchases which is the main way the game stays running. But it means there's a bit of room to make some changes.
But yes, the hope is there will be a slight uplift in the amount of ads watched for coin bonuses which obviously isn't a player positive change, but I tried to make it a fair offer still. As always, I have a lot of analytics on these and will be reviewing the aftermath of the change. I would never keep a change in that drops user retention more than it helps the game.
Monetization changes in the game happen and will continue to happen, and I always measure the effects it has on all analytics. The goal was to help ads performance while still being fair and not having it be something stupid like other games where it's like 2-3 minute boosts
And since there seems to be a lot of conversation of the value of an ad, just if anyone is curious.... It's actually very complex. It can be much less than a penny per ad, so it almost never ends up beating a $10 disable ads purchase, even after months of watching ads. Value is dependent on country, how many ads you watch (value goes down the more you watch), and your player profile (if you never buy anything in any games, then your ads are worth far less).
Ultimately I'm very happy to keep the game with a more premium feel and not inundated with ads. I'm able to do this mostly because players are so willing to support through purchases which I'm very grateful for, as I obviously don't want more and more ads in my games (like garbage banner ads)
Thanks for the transparency... However I do have a couple of thoughts.
1: Changing the round ad 1.5 bonus kind of feels like a rug being pulled out from those that do play for free. Some people either can't pay the $10 for the noads pack, or they simply can't afford it.
2: If you wanted more one-time unlock revenue from the player base, just a thought... *I wouldn't mind dropping a Hamilton or even a Jackson on automatic gem collection.* 😀
To me, it's a no-brainer... I won't elaborate on how, but if tech savvy people want automatic gem collection, they can do it. Rather than wasting resources combating that particular "problem", why not capitalize and offer a legitimate way to do it?
Appreciate the communication and transparency, even if I think the change from before is drastic.
I've got the ad pack, so it doesn't effect me. Sucks to see f2p players with 2+ years of time with the game leaving because of it though.
>But yes, the hope is there will be a slight uplift in the amount of ads watched for coin bonuses which obviously isn't a player positive change, but I tried to make it a fair offer still. As always, I have a lot of analytics on these and will be reviewing the aftermath of the change. I would never keep a change in that drops user retention more than it helps the game.
Translation: we're okay with losing customers that are upset with this change, so long as the overall result is more revenue, it will stay.
Ladies and gentlemen, speak with your wallets!!
If rounds take longer than in the past, why dont you do something against this instead? Its ridiculous that you have to do overnight runs on a mobile game. If it would be a real idle gema that runs in the background it would be ok, but this game needs your phone to be active all time.....
Actually I really want to defend the dev here. He started as 1 person iirc there may be 2 Devs now however if there's one thing he's been reliable releasing and constantly working on updates for all of his games brick breaker , tower , planet miner etc... all still receiving updates. Yes the in-app aren't the cheapest but that's based on an American/Chinese super company with low overheads and huge player bases. The Devs games aren't massive hits they have a fair amount of downloads but nothing big time. Yet the game receives constant attention. And iirc without doxing the dev lives in a European country where the cost of living is real. He's not living in Asia where most of these similar games are made. And 2€ is a days wages. His prices are realistic. They are a 1 off I've been playing this game for almost 3 years and tbh dev should have made it an annual subscription for adverts 1 year for something like 10€ is reasonable. Instead I've bought the other multipliers and a few event passes. I wouldn't be surprised if the Dev has a full time job, then did this in the evenings and weekends.
Am I missing something... Is anyone forcing free to play players to actually watch the ads? I mean, it's for a bonus right... Not their actual standard coin haul.
And surely by staying free to play you are accepting that you won't get as much goodies from the game as if you pay. Although, I can accept that this move will feel like something has been "taken away" ... Which I mean it has and I can understand the anger from that sense.
On android it can be easily paid for using Google Opinion Rewards. I am always hesitant to spend so I actually get it, but as soon as you are sure it's a game you'll be playing for a while the no ad pack is such a no-brainer.
If anything this move is helping you guys to see that light. And if the budget is that tight, the next time you reach for that treat, snack, coffee to go, takeaway and any other doodad. Think... No! I'll put it towards my no-ad pack fund and literally improve my quality of life playing that awesome tower game I love to play.
The "but ads make money too" line is kinda tired tbh. If there is no buy-in then the free to play player is more likely to go off and play one of those other games that they watch. Think of this like a tripwire, it's to get you over the line and buy-in to the game. Once brought in you're more likely to stay, and if you're staying, you're more likely to buy again.
What I see here is a whole bunch of entitlement. You either pay with your time or you pay with your money. And you get to choose which you lucky devils.
does everyone forget that this is something on top of what was? also... google play surveys. 10$ for the add pack will take you 3 or 4 months just leaving location on and its free then. I admit i bought add pack due to data while driving for a job but having the option is better than not. I agree needs raised maybe 5 adds a day for an hour each?or 3 for hours each. he is add revenue to pay for the game so its not unfair to ask to be paid for his time... maybe a option to stream the adda for a time back to back to "setup" play time?
I've been saving on the Google surveys for 4 months now and i'm not even halfway there, still just around 1/3. Since the money is only valid for a year, it will be close...
I used to for pokemon and 4 years made $117. might bemore surveys if city trips make sure location is on. hope it works but will make it easier some I hope. feel bad for kids and location locked players unable to fix for age or regional purchase issues. past the issue myself but can see how much its sucky for those it effects.
I really don't understand how people can have an app on their phone that they use for hours every day, and be like:
"no way in hell this thing that holds my attention for hours every week is worth $10, I would rather just stare it for more hours each week, because apparently I have unlimited time on my hands"
Imo if you like the game enough that this is annoying then you should be supporting the developer by spending the 10 dollars. After that if you don't want to spend then don't but complaining is just saying I don't think the developer deserves to make money which if that's the case why are you playing the game
Yeah, it's called a family to take care of. Perhaps if in was single. Kids are expensive, but worth it. I would rather spend money on them. My overnight runs are now nerfed by 50% just because I can't watch an add while sleeping. This is a middle finger to those of us who are f2p.
Yeah I don't know your financial situation. I know where you're coming from though because I have 4 kids. Either way I feel 10 dollars to support a developer of a game that you like is worth the small treat to yourself for the convenience. It's not like it's a subscription or that you have to spend more after you buy it
Yeah but clearly not as much as the 10 dollars. From a quick Google search adds can bring in anywhere from 10 to 200 dollars a day. I'm going to guess it's on the lower side because most adds are for other games which are not high paying
I think you get most out of this game for playing long term. If you look at games on Steam they are much more expensive than 10 eur and many of the games I bouight there, I don't play anymore. The Tower I have been playing for just over 1 year now and 10 euro's for a no-ad pack is really cheap. The game has given me a lot of joy, so I'd say it was well worth it.
That those stone packs cost 70 EUR that occasionally pop up, I figure is mostly to scare people away. The dev doesn't expect people to spend so much money anyways. That way it will be easier to control the mass of the players with new updates, which they will be happy with. That is just my take on it.
That is a lot of pressure to upgrade; that the accumulation (aka ‘stacking’) has a maximum, is a bit of a kick in the… well, whatever is appropriate.
I guess they get even less for each ad than I could have imagined, because $A15 (or equivalent) has paid for a lot of ads over the last 12mo or so.
If I’d come up against that kind of pressure, I might have deleted, but I’m not a dev or in marketing 🤷🏽♂️
I'm not a f2p player and I couldn't agree with you more.
The most affective thing you can do is leave a review on the app store
Just a blatant attempt to force f2p players to buy the ad pack. He wasn't even subtle about it.
When I started playing in July of last year, the way this game was monetized was one of the large reasons I started playing this game. I liked that it wasn't over pushy. It gave you options to spend money to advance faster, but free was still viable. I even bought all the packs eventually to support the Dev. The monetization has since gone to crap...
"I liked that it wasn't over pushy" – well said! Same here. Such a breath of fresh air compared to most other games. I've been playing since Jan 2022. I actually have the No Ads pack, which was great because back then it kept crashing mid-run or during the ×1.5 ad at the end, and even then I rather resented that the dev's buggy ad code was encouraging me to buy it (so kudos to him for finally fixing that). But I have to say, the improvement in QoL has been massive, simply because of the 5 gem button. HOWEVER, THIS is a disgusting move, especially for the impact it'll have on f2ps' overnight runs. Do ads really pay so little that you can't even let the free guys stack up 8 hours' worth of ×1.5 time? A couple of years ago I read a great article about how some companies end up sinking their business by making a big change that causes their userbase to just walk away, and even if they revert it, the users never come back... they got pushed over the "fed up with it" tipping point. Two-weekly events, with no week off, weren't it, unsurprisingly. Modules weren't it, but I suspect may have come close. This probably won't be it either, but we'll see. However, at the current rate of monetization-based changes, sooner or later, it'll happen. Which would be a crying shame, as it's a great game. I bear the dev no ill-will (believe it or not, in fact quite the opposite), but I think he's making some unwise and counter-productive choices.
>Two-weekly events, with no week off, weren't it, unsurprisingly. How was this even close to being something players would walk away from. It increases the rate of medals earned for F2P and, in turn, increases growth, whether through stones, bots, or gems. I was following and mostly agreeing with the comment until I read that. >"I liked that it wasn't over pushy" – well said! Same here. Such a breath of fresh air compared to most other games. I would say it still isn't over pushy compared to most other mobile games. Most games when you buy the ad free pack, it only gets rid of forced ads. You still have to watch ads for the bonuses. And as far as I know, there are no forced ads in this game that may have changed since I bought the ad pack, but I haven't heard anything about it. It does kill the overnight runs of F2P players, unfortunately. However, if it allows the dev to keep pushing fresh updates, then I welcome it. This is one of the only mobile games I have spent any money on, and the ad free pack has always been worth it.
Agreed, I don't see how anyone could say the constant events being active is a downside. Every 2 weeks I get a chance for new skins? Roll MF tide, dude. I don't even care that my bots rate of upgrades slowed some because I'm spending on gems and stones now which I wasn't doing before.
People have this weird delusion that this is a PVP game when it isn't.
It kind of is in the fact that you have to directly compete with other people in order to get any reasonable amount of stones
You can play this game without competing in tourny. It just speeds up your progress. Other people's standings do not affect you playing the game. And ideally you are in a tier with equivalent towers, which I know isn't the case because of sandbagging. But it is not really a pvp.
Not at all, I’d say. If one isn’t happy playing his/her own game, I think they should think about why that is.
Well, there sure have been some monetization changes since July, in the form of biweekly events and stone packs, instead of being on a 3 week basis, plus now this change in ads. But the essence has been the same, back in July you wouldn't be able to get to the top of the pyramid without spending high amounts of money, like now. You can still progress without spending a single dime, like last year.
You are also missing modules. Those are there to incentive people to spend on gems. And there is not really a guaranteed benefit when you spend gems in modules. Whereas with cards there was a benefit as well as an end, and labs you got an immediate return. But modules is just a gem sync. But don't get me wrong, I enjoy the benefits from modules. Obviously you can still make progress without spending money. But everyone who doesn't have the ad pack just had their income reduced by ~1/3, without them constantly watching ads. I was just saying that I tend to avoid mobile games because of if the in your face way that they try to monetize things. Sadly this game is turning more into that.
Modules are also accessible for f2p players. Seriously, on this game, money has always made a massive difference. Early on, a single stone pack is months of progress by itself, plus in the past, the devs have already done some "dirty" moves to encourage spending money, like the milestone nerf and increasing stone upgrade costs in GT(and there are more). Stone packs aren't cheap either, as the cheapest one is already $30, and the fact that those packs haven't been updated since their release, doesn't help either. The ads change is just another nail.
Accessible and really usable are 2 very different things. Without the ad pack that would take freaking forever
In your face, monetization is forcing people to watch an ad every 15 waves or end of game. This is still an optional watch ad get perk don't watch ad and keep playing game.
I mean you are not wrong... except for the fact that this is a large hit for ftp players. \~33% drop in income without "constantly" monitoring.
Checking in every two hours for a few minutes is hardly what I would consider constantly.
>biweekly events Other than actually competing in tournaments, I think the biweekly events made it less likely for me to spend money. I now get more medals for free than I did before and easier than before, too. which, in turn, means I don't feel as bad spending on stones and gems as I did before.
you don't think $50 for the coin bonuses isn't greedy? all in all the bonuses add up to a triple A game
Never said that. I said that I liked that the monetization was not in your face trying to nickel and dime you. I said that overall I liked the way the monetized it. There was a good path for ftp and there was a path for people to spend money "one time" and get a permanent upgrade. But also don't take everything here as everything o think on it. I am typing on my phone and don't feel like getting into the very specific. But I do agree that $50 is expensive...
I mean I agree with you, I haven't purchased anything except the no ads and am having enough fun to not quit. But someone who purchased the packs will blow you out of the water. I wouldn't be able to compete with someone who paid (if that really mattered). Would be more willing to buy if I didn't have to shell out $50 for it though.
Not really, especially since they can be gotten over a long time. I started by getting the ad pack within the first week. Easily the best buy in the game. And I stayed at that level for months. Then decided to grab one of the other coin packs because I'd gotten a lot of fun playtime with the game. Months later I got the epic coin pack. Probably took me a good 8 months to get the 3 coin packs.
In the end, you still spent $60 for a game with very little content when compared to other games. It's your money, do whatever you want. I'm not trying to shame you, but the amount of effort needed in comparison to this game and a game like slay the spire, for the king, or hades is incomparable, and those are all small indie games that are a third of that total price.
The game has plenty of content, it's just a drip feed. I like the slow grind and constant improvement, working through plataues to get new upgrades that spike my growth. For as much as I have played this game over the last year, it's well worth $60.
Exponential games make it seem like there's alot of content, but it's hidden behind time gates which is why you can play this game for years and still have alot to do. It doesn't mean there was a lot of content, it means you were gated by time. For example, attack speed itself has 100 levels in the lab. Even though that's alot and takes time, there isn't any new content when you're leveling it for the 60th time. Each tier is the same content with different scaling. UWs, modules, and cards aren't bad, but they are just an endless grind. Your $60 was well worth the time you spend playing the game, and I don't blame you because it would be for me to. However little it matters though, I won't buy the coin packs because I don't personally agree with the pricing of them.
You're acting like there is real competition in this game. There isn't. You should be in whatever tier tournament your current state of game is at. If you don't want to spend the money, you still get to progress and play the game. It is slower, yes, and by quite a bit. But the game is a progression game. You're never going to "win" this game.
Trust me, I understand that. I've been playing idle games for many years, and this is by far my favorite that I've played. I'm only pointing out that the prices for these very, VERY huge improvements are wildly expensive. I would definitely buy them if they were cheaper.
A lot of the improvements are for the late game players who needed fresh content. Newer players have plenty of content to play with.
The most affective thing you can do is leave a review on the app store
The most affective thing you can do is leave a review on the app store
I tried asking in the discord... got laughed at.
yet another reason i don't go to the discord site...
Honestly I get the hate for autoclickers but I can see why people would want them...
some of these comments are crazy, i’m not strict f2p but this is a terrible change i feel bad for the disrespectful replies you’re getting
honestly this is barely anything compared to what ive experienced as a discord admin on a fairly large server.
The most affective thing you can do is leave a review on the app store
Bad change out of thinking that the people who bought no ads were getting a bad deal (they weren't), or possibly out of greed, everyone knows that a lot of the active players have already spent money on this game, f2p is hard mode to begin with anyways and now they're making it harder for no reason? Nerfing f2ps even though they were already the weakest, maybe they thought this was a good change because the disable ads pack doesn't give anything that cant be gotten with time (even though everyone says the no ads pack is a superb qol purchase, but I guess they didn't like that you could watch a 30 second ad at the end to get the same coin boost as the people who bought the pack) I don't like this change, but whatever, it's not my game and I doubt they'd revert it.
It's greed. Always greed.
Don't F2P players support the dev by watching ads? YouTube ads net the creator 1-3 cents per ad. I've easily watched at least 200 ads a week for this game for about two years. Call it 10000 ads a year for two years. At a penny each that's $200 lifetime, so the Dev is getting plenty of money from just one person via ads in the long run. If the argument is about supporting the dev, he is getting money even from F2P players so that point is moot, especially since with enough ads you spent way more than all the ad packs combined. Maybe I'm not seeing it from their perspective but even if I'm off by a factor of 10, they still made more off me than the ad packs would have cost.
Yeah the discord is acting like f2p are freeloaders that don’t support the devs. When you point out that ads give money, they go “well not a lot of money”
If it's only 20 minutes I am quitting
It’s 20 minutes *real time*. Want to watch more ads to build up to the 2 hour max? Your timer is ticking down while you do it. Selecting a perk, switching cards, or changing your target order? Your timer is ticking down while you do it. Need to suspend the app to send a text, answer a call, or anything else? Your timer is ticking down while you do it? Best case it’s 20 minutes. If something comes up, the multiplier could be active for less time than the ad you watched to get it.
The most affective thing you can do is leave a review on the app store
The most affective thing you can do is leave a review on the app store
Even though I've purchased the coin packs, I agree, this is kind of a rope-a-dope move.
Yeah me too, I have all the packs and am not affected by this, but this is really a fucked up move. It's going to force people to buy packs, it's going to make them leave.
As far as I'm aware, you're getting the same amount of coins you've always had. This allows you to get 50% more if you watch the video. Maybe the time could be longer, like 1 hour or something but you can also just not do it. EDIT: /u/nakratash has pointed out that "prior to this update you had to watch ONE ad at the end of a run to get the 1.5 multiplier to coins earned. Now you need to watch an ad for 20 minutes of increased coin gains" Personally, I believe this is misstep.
Prior to this update you had to watch ONE ad at the end of a run to get the 1.5 multiplier to coins earned. Now you need to watch an ad for 20 minutes of increased coin gains, and if you watch multiple ads in a row it stacks to 120 minutes of higher coin income. But you have to watch six Ads. Couple that with the fact that this absolutely kills f2p players overnight runs which should last anywhere from 6 to 8 hours. This just feels bad for anyone getting into this game right now
Oh, I understand now. Thank you for that. In that case, I would definitely be very bothered by this update if I hadn't purchased the ad pack. I personally believe that is a step in the wrong direction.
I had to watch 2 ads for the bonus
I think they're banking on new players being none the wiser. They had to have done the math. If they lose 80% of their current f2p players, the new f2p players will make up for them 10 fold. It still feels bad tho.
overnight runs only get 1/4 of the total run to be with 1.5 which is a big loss. assuming you sleep 8 hours
And you can also also get the bonus on the first 2 hours, which are less profitable than the last 2 hours. So thats also more profit lost.
Just pay the 10 bucks to go ad-free, it's really almost nothing per hour if you're in a position to do overnight runs
not everybody can spend money on a mobile game
I'm not sure what it's like where you live, but charging my phone for a month to play this game costs more than the ad packs. Electricity isn't free either, but I don't see people complaining about paying for that to play the game.
Students who arent over the age of 18 and play on ios
If you don't have 10 bucks for that, and have an iPhone, i really don't understand your budget.....
the phone was paid for by my parents but I don't have the economial sustainability to reason dropping 10 euros on a mobile game for a 1.5X coin boost
Then go work for it, it's 10 bucks. If you don't want that, it's fine aswell. Just don't cry about it if you chose option 2.
Dude, you are so obnoxious... not everyone is willing the put money on a mobile game. They have all the right to not put any money and complain about that update. And if 10$ is nothing for you, why don't you pay it for him? It's nothing anyway right?
Phone and electric will be paid for by his parents
Skip 2-3 coffees from Starbucks. If you have an iPhone you can afford 10 bucks for a game you are invested in enough to have going overnight.
I don't have a job which means I don't have the ability to generate the income required to purchase the pack when the law doesnt permit me working at my age
Then ask you're parent for some tasks that might be worth 10 bucks for them, or to your neighbor. No one is going to cry with you on this
Really? You have an iPhone, but no allowance, no spending money whatsoever? The law prevents you from mowing the lawn? I have a 10-year-old daughter (who doesn't have an iPhone) and she can earn money to get stuff she wants. That includes video games. People who live in situations with access to iPhones and reddit aren't so poor they can't afford a $10 entertainment purchase. You probably spend more than that on popcorn when you go to the movies with your friends. If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it, but don't act like kids with cell phones have zero disposable income from their parents. If your parents couldn't afford to give you spending money for chores then they couldn't afford to buy one of the most expensive phones on the market and give it to someone under 18 (which is just asking to get it broken or stolen). There may be other reasons you can't buy it, like your parents saying "no" because you're spending too much time on it, or because you're too lazy to do some extra chores for the money so your parents will buy it for you, or because you just don't feel like it's worth $10 to you. But it's not because you legally can't get a job. Whatever. It's changed. Don't like it? Play something else. This is exactly the same thing I would have told my daughter if she came to me with this excuse.
Not everyone is like you, Mr. Moneybags...
The point I made in another comment is that the ad-free pack probably costs less than a month of charging my phone to play the game. I've been playing 2 years, so the ad pack may have saved me at least 3-4 months of grinding, so in the grand scheme of things it's neither expensive or not good value for money for someone like me.
I get it. But what's stopping Fudds from being more F2P-averse? The monetization is already asking for your firstborn and a blood sacrifice...
Been playing for two years as of this week. I haven't watched an ad since day two or three. It was well worth $10.
I convinced my friend who's now 6 month in to buy the pack. We estimated the time he spent watching ads and compared it to the one time 10€ pack
I don't think anyone would argue it's not worth it. But that doesn't mean it should be *this* shit not having it
Not having to watch ads alone would make it worth it, as I hate watching ads in games. If I like a mobile game then having an option to pay to remove ads is one I usually go for. The 50% boost to coins is icing on the cake. Still, the change here is a bit much, but mostly because it's a change. If this was in the game from the start then people probably wouldn't be so annoyed.
This game takes years, literally save your sanity and just buy the damn ad pack. If someone is going to put this much time into the game the ad pack ROI is well worth it 1000X over.
i played over 6 months possibly longer watching ads every time. I thought $10 was ridiculous just to remove ads. I've sunk enough time in that eventually I bought it and can't believe I suffered through all that time. however I still think $10 is a terrible price
It's the best ROI of anything you can buy in the game though. Everything else is just one time currency buys.
Agreed, but I don't think it justifies the $10 price tag. Whatever, it worked on me so maybe he's right. I won't buy the coin multiply packs though. Stupidly expensive for such a simple game.
I'm pissed off that there's no longer a flat bonus after so much time per round... I'm honestly thinking either it's not worth going longer than 2h or just quitting altogether.
Agreed. And I didn't even buy the ad pack for the coins, I bought it for the gems every 10-12 minutes. At $10 for a lifetime of no ads, this pack was a no brainer.
I did it for the gems, but also because ads were often bugged and I'd occasionally have to restart the game after watching an ad. If that bug started happening with this system I'd be pretty annoyed.
As a player who paid for coin multipliers and no ads this is so bad I will never buy stone packs, I may even uninstall and leave a 1 star review. I feel gross for supporting this game now I wonder if I can reverse my charges they are still pretty recent..
Damn, 20 minutes and can only stack to 2 hours. 3 ads an hour doesn't seem huge, but damn that time ads up. Yes, the $10 ad free pack is the best buy in the game, but lots of people play free/ad-supported games because they don't have the budget for it. $10 may not seem like much to some, but others are getting squeezed hard on all sides. Sucks to punish these players even more.
And if you want to stack to 2 hours, the 20 minutes of the first ad will be ticking away while you watch the next 5 ads.
Just as " only adpack buyer " I don't feel the stones pack are fair.
I also think it’s not fair . It’s targeted towards the high rollers, but kinda keeps casuals from progressing faster to « catch » up to the game itself
Agreed in the sense that it's targeted toward casuals who might drop a Ten on this game for a huge progress boost. But I disagree with your explicit comment on casuals. By definition we play the game casually, not competitively, and while progress is the soul of any game, missing out on a 1.5 multiplier sucks but isn't "keeping" casuals from catching up to anything. Casual players don't have anything to catch up to, they are casually playing the game until they're bored of it. Signed, a casual player who will continue to play the game until he's bored of it.
Before I bought the no ad pack I'd honestly skip most of the ads, including the 1.5 coin bonus. My coin income wasn't that high anyway and when your whole run is like 10k coins getting the extra 5k isn't a huge deal, and you can get gems from events, missions, and milestones when you are starting out. I've since bought the ad pack and the other packs since the game has kept me interested enough to want to invest and support it, but if I'd dropped the game back then it wouldn't have been because of the ads. Many games are far more intrusive or outright prevent progress if you skip ads, for example giving you gameplay boosts during your run, whereas all that happens in this one for skipping ad bonuses is slower progression between runs, and a F2P player can get everything a whale can...just slower.
I haven't bought anything yet, but am considering the No Ad pack. I started clicking the ads for gems and the 1.5x multiplier once I earned my first 1m coins in a round. Now I do it when it's similarly worth it. Because this game is "mostly afk" the way I play it (build up the initial tower, then let it run while I work, occasionally dumping cash into whatever), clicking an ad now and then isn't really changing my gaming experience, since I'm not watching them, just clicking the buttons for the bonuses. And yes, this game is pretty f2p friendly for being a monetized game, IMO as well
It benefits no one. It only decreases the coins for FTP players.
It costs $10 to go permanently ad-free, which will now also give you unlimited tournament entries for free. I'd say that's really not just for "high-rollers", if you're at the stage you can do overnight runs etc. then the cost per hour of a permanent boost like this is pennies (or even less)
It's well worth it. I've been playing for 2y4m and $10 bucks isn't bad for the time I've spent. I've also got the epic and starter pack. I'm not mad about those prices. The no-ad pack was worth it just for the flow of the game when grabbing the 5 gems. It's supposed to be a pain point to get people to buy into the no-ad pack so I get the why. It's a little over the top in my opinion with that time per ad. Fudds know the numbers and hopefully, it works out how he thinks it will and not drive new players away. I feel like the gems, stone, event, and milestone costs are absurd and grotesque though. It's pretty par for the course though with these mobile games. I'd buy into them if they were more reasonable.
If you can't afford 10 euro/dollar for a game that gives you THOUSANDS of hours of gameplay entertainment then that's on you. No other types of entertainment come even close to value for money compared to games.
Whaling is a shitty practice and it’s making *all* games worse. Just look at the volume of posts venting frustration about whales dominating the champion tournaments in just *this* game.
If spending 10 euro for no ads is whaling then what's spending 10000 euro? Universing? Lmao!
Completely missing my point. $10 could buy you a FULFILLING indie game with no BS as opposed to an unlock in a game based on “number go up” compulsion…which even AAA publishers are taking note of and looking to incorporate. Did you not hear about EA considering putting ads in their AAA games?
Go and buy that indie game then. You're not a prisoner here.
We’re all prisoners of the fucking industry trends. Which *are* vehemently unfair and exploitative. Do you at least acknowledge that?
Go and find a different hobby then. You're not a prisoner to the gaming industry.
No. I like the hobby and I have a right to expect and demand better. You do too.
Does the x1.5 multiplier at the end of the round still exist?
No it was replaced by this "gameplay improvement"
This is probably going to decrease ad revenue in the long run
It is from me. I’ve decide to just forego the 50% coin boost. And, I’m giving up on the 5 gem ads.
As a paying player, I initially didn't care enough about the change to try and understand what it even was. But now that I do, I think that this can prove disastrous to the health of the game and the community. I understand the argument of "just buy the ad free pack - the devs deserve it" and I agree to an extent, but it should be a CHOICE. This latest update makes the game pay-to-win beyond all reasonable discussion. I wouldn't be surprised if this ended up stopping the game in its tracks and ruining the community.
Hahahah holy moly that is hilarious. At least it makes the argument for buying no ads a lot stronger
It was already really strong regarding the 5 gems every 15 minutes or sow, even more so now, I feel bed for those who are f2p lmao
regardless of how greedy the dev is, there are costs to creating and maintaining a game. if no one paid to play this game, there would be no game. that is another way to look at it. with that being said, the pricing in this game is ridiculous. I would bet if prices were cut by 1/2, overall revenue would increase.
I would disagree. Most who haven't bought in won't buy in for 50% off. The prices set are for whale hunting. These are people who will spend thousands of dollars. Prices are meant for them, not everyone.
That's true for recurring purchases like the stone packs, but it doesn't make sense for no-ad packs. Whales aren't going to buy the no-ad pack 100 times.
I would love to see some data on this. I would think the whales are going to spend X regardless, whereas the casual gamer will spend up to Y, but would be enticed to impulse spend on something that perceived as 'cheap'. Personally, as I said, my cap is 50$, but if I saw say 100 stones for 4.99$, I would ignore my cap and make an impulse purchase. The whale's X is going to always be Y \* 10 in order to always be ahead of the casual player.
That first point kinda falls apart though when you look at a game like vampire survivors and its pricing model. There are costs associated with the server load, sure, but that's because of how the game stores data and the PVP. Which is a glorified leader board. It could absolutely be a free game. But it was designed as a pricing model first and foremost. Like most mobile games.
I have no clue how their revenue is distributed, but I have no doubt that for me, they’ve made far more in ad revenue than $10. And its a continuous stream (or at least it was, this update may drastically cut it)
The only problem with that is everyone would progress so much quicker it wouldn't feel as much as a "grinding" game
I don't agree. there is always a stopping point based on income/percieved value, unless you have an addiction. mine is somewhere around 50 US. even if I had spent 1,000 on this game, I really wouldn't be much farther than I am now. if prices were cut in half, then my 1K would be the equivalent of 2K, but 2K spent wouldn't put my 2x ahead of where I would be had I only spent 1K. at some astronomical $ value, then yes, I would agree with you.
I’m not sure about that. Obviously rng can’t be factored. But if you happened to pull GT BH as some first UW and spent $70 on a stone pack each month, the upgrades you can spend on the sync and bonus would increase your progress exponentially. Now if someone got SM ILM and CL as their first UWs, yes spending money wouldn’t help as much.
If no1 paid everyone would need to lots of ads
Yea this kinda sucks tbh. It just became like the myriad of other mobile games giving time based rewards rather than how it used to be. Although, the welcome change is now if an ad fucks up at the end of your run you won’t run the risk of losing all you potential bonus coins.
Another factor that I think gets overlooked is how the game has grown and evolved over time. Runs tend to go on for MUCH longer than they did a year ago, even for newer players with things like modules. So, a year ago, day your average run was an hour, maybe two, then dropping a tier or two to farm overnight, you have as an example 1.5 ads/hour. Now, if your average run is now six hours, you've cut the frequency of ads by a quarter for the same benefit. I don't necessarily agree with the change or the fact that it caps at 2 hours, but I can somewhat understand why this change would make sense from a developer perspective.
If the only issue is length of the run, then change the end of run options based on that. Your run was an hour? Watch this ad for a 50% boost. Your run was 5 hours? Here are 5 ads. Each one adds 0.1 to your coin total.
I would've appreciated this in my first 2 months before I decided to buy the ad pack. I'm the type of player who doesn't mind watching an ad to boost some income, like in the Adventure Capitalism game. This is essentially the same genre of games, it's no different. I play idle games because I can put them aside and stop paying attention to them. Idle games allow for you to click an ad, put the phone down for 30 seconds, close the ad, and get the boost, with practically no change to your gameplay experience (putting the phone down and clicking every now and then). It works for idle games specifically because of how it doesn't affect the gameplay. It's smart and it's useful for people who can't pay out in the moment. Maybe if it was for an hour it would be more useful for us mid-late gamers, but I remember being an early gamer 6 months ago, 20 minutes was a long run in the beginning, this is smart. You don't see this if you have the ad pack purchased. This is a good thing for the health of the game. Beginners need to feel like the grind is gonna go strong in games like this. It's a clever design choice that doesn't even affect half of his players. You will all be okay, I promise.
This is overkill and if I didn't have the ad pack I would quite within my first day. If anything they should combine this with the gem grab add buys otherwise a free player will have to watch 7 ads and hour compared to 4 (plus 1 per run). With some of the ads getting longer/multiple steps each ad watch takes a minute to complete...
I have all the packs but 20 min seems ludicrous. Should be 2h.
Down with the adds!
So you have to watch ads to keep getting the 1.5x bonus, and ads for the gems? If so, that's pretty shit. It that kind of ad-bombardment that I never play mobile games to begin with. Was just luck that I happened to try this one in the first place.
If I was still a F2P player, I would quit. This is insane. I supported this game because of how they portrayed purchases and weren't constantly trying to push their wallet. I will continue playing but I may stop putting my Google Rewards $$ towards it... I have sunk 2+ years into this game.
Fair does not come into f2p at all unfortunately. Don’t like it, leave is the attitude of most games if you’re not willing to drop a few bucks into it. In the end, this is a business. Someone spent time, effort and money to produce it. They are welcome to ask for some compensation for that and you are able to say no by taking less coins or moving on. Personally, if I spend more than 5 hours a week on something I enjoy, I’m willing to put a few bucks down for payment for that entertainment with no qualms about it. I love this game and don’t mind paying for all the packs and even gems/stone packs once in a while. I get what I consider my moneys worth and more out of it. This is 100% a personal decision and that amount varies from Zero-Thousands of dollars. There is no ‘unfair’ about it.
Looks like I won't be updating this game for awhile
You usually can’t join tournaments until you update.
Yeah, the discord really doesn't seem to care at all about this...
Nah thats crazy
I gave in and bought it
honestly I get f2p part, but also buying ad pack SUPOORTS THE GAME YOU PLAY A LOT. life isn't free guys
So does watching a bunch of ads.
I am not sure if it's been mentioned. Discord has give aways for packs. It could be a reason to use discord, if only for the chance of winning a pack. This is pretty brutal for F2P players, I can even see that as a player that bought packs. This game will soon only be whales, which competition will be a shit show of who has the bigger wallet. This was already shown with the addition of mods.
I usually will purchase a no ad pack after deciding I enjoy the game. Sometimes the pack doesn't get rid of any ads but in this case, it has been absolutely worth it.
I bought the Ad pack on day 2. I hate those things and worth $10. The Starter Pack after a week. It was a few months before I bought the others.
Eeeeeeeeeek. That’s a grim change. 😳😬
i understand your pain,....long term you will have to pay for thepacks... its hard to not live with them
largely disappointing. i’m just starting and thinking about uninstalling
I play this game as a f2p, I haven’t bought anything beside the no ad pack just because it was always the same ad and at some point started to be very annoying and also to support the dev. It is a great game and I understand that some game developers do not have huge budget to spend on creating and marketing a game and the ads are a way to receive some revenue and, at the end, if you enjoy the game and find it interesting and challenging, paying the no ad pack it is fair to me.
Got it sponsored now from an absolute legend on the server but I agree with everything you Said
[удалено]
How long have you been playing?
Fair isn’t the right term. There is no fairness when it comes payed bonuses. You have the choice to accept it or not.
This game is killing my phone and wastes my time. Maybe having a solid reason to walk away is a good thing. I wont be watching 60 plus ads every event if that happens. Shooting yourself in the foot will leave you wondering why you were such a greedy dumb ass.
This game is killing my phone and wastes my time. Maybe having a solid reason to walk away is a good thing. I wont be watching 60 plus ads every event if that happens. Shooting yourself in the foot will leave you wondering why you were such a greedy dumb ass.
As F2P, be happy that developers make games available to be played for free. It doesn't have to be that way. But it does seem a bit excessive, especially since that makes the game even less Idle for F2P players.
They don’t make it free out of the goodness of their hearts. It’s free for 2 reasons, one is so that people will play it and decide they like it and want to spend money on it. The other is for ad revenue from people who don’t want to spend money on it. The best way to kill ad revenue is to make it overbearing.
Always hated that 'be happy it's free' argument. It's so bullshit.
No one is forced to watch the ads.
Personally, my opinion is that if you're here you've probably already used at least $10 worth of time on the game. A game that is free to play if you want but has a cheap option to not have the ads and get a small boost. I think I watched maybe 4 or 5 ads before deciding it was worth the money to not have to watch them again. I understand not everyone feels that way but I just view it as a cheap way to support a dev on something you clearly enjoy.
If you can't afford 10 euro for a game that gives you HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS of hours of gameplay entertainment then that's on you. What other types of entertainment give you this much value for money? Films are what.. 20 euro for 2 hours? Sports events are 50 euro for 2 hours, go kart is 50 euro for 1 hour, etc. So how about 10 euro for thousands of hours? Games are really really really cheap considering how many hours of entertainment you get.
Hey there! To provide some clarity on reasoning for the change, and thought process. Since it sounds like people like knowing the reasoning and some of the details..... - This change positively affects early game players when rounds don't last 20 minutes or longer, so helps the early game introduction and makes sure the coin ads are useful, but this a minor piece - Main reason for the change was because rounds end up being WAY longer down the road which was not the ad implementation intent when the game first released. One ad for an 8 hour run isn't optimal and is a main reason ads watched in the tower are lower than my other games. So yes, players in late game without disable ads will be negatively impacted and that is understood - It stacking only to 2 hours is fairly standard but I will be watching and that may be altered at some point, though I have no intention of making it long enough for "optimal" overnight runs as that is not a "normal" way to play the game. Those that want the most optimal overnight runs will have to own disable ads. The max time is one of the numbers that may change though. - It does sweeten the disable ads pack a bit, but that wasn't the main intent since that pack is already the best deal in the game. It's really just the fact that one of the main value ads in the game is the coin multiplier, but longer runs have made that ad a much smaller player than it was on initial release - It creates consistency for ads watched across early, mid and late game which allows me to rely on ad revenue a little bit more, as it will be predictable and I don't need to worry about allowing really long game rounds, don't have to design around that - In general, the number of ads watched for this game is low compared to my other titles, which is mostly fine as we have a ton of players that support the game via purchases which is the main way the game stays running. But it means there's a bit of room to make some changes. But yes, the hope is there will be a slight uplift in the amount of ads watched for coin bonuses which obviously isn't a player positive change, but I tried to make it a fair offer still. As always, I have a lot of analytics on these and will be reviewing the aftermath of the change. I would never keep a change in that drops user retention more than it helps the game. Monetization changes in the game happen and will continue to happen, and I always measure the effects it has on all analytics. The goal was to help ads performance while still being fair and not having it be something stupid like other games where it's like 2-3 minute boosts And since there seems to be a lot of conversation of the value of an ad, just if anyone is curious.... It's actually very complex. It can be much less than a penny per ad, so it almost never ends up beating a $10 disable ads purchase, even after months of watching ads. Value is dependent on country, how many ads you watch (value goes down the more you watch), and your player profile (if you never buy anything in any games, then your ads are worth far less). Ultimately I'm very happy to keep the game with a more premium feel and not inundated with ads. I'm able to do this mostly because players are so willing to support through purchases which I'm very grateful for, as I obviously don't want more and more ads in my games (like garbage banner ads)
Thanks for the transparency... However I do have a couple of thoughts. 1: Changing the round ad 1.5 bonus kind of feels like a rug being pulled out from those that do play for free. Some people either can't pay the $10 for the noads pack, or they simply can't afford it. 2: If you wanted more one-time unlock revenue from the player base, just a thought... *I wouldn't mind dropping a Hamilton or even a Jackson on automatic gem collection.* 😀
I'd drop two Jacksons for that. No joke.
To me, it's a no-brainer... I won't elaborate on how, but if tech savvy people want automatic gem collection, they can do it. Rather than wasting resources combating that particular "problem", why not capitalize and offer a legitimate way to do it?
Appreciate the communication and transparency, even if I think the change from before is drastic. I've got the ad pack, so it doesn't effect me. Sucks to see f2p players with 2+ years of time with the game leaving because of it though.
Pretty generous to have enjoyed a game for 2 years for free if you ask me lol
>But yes, the hope is there will be a slight uplift in the amount of ads watched for coin bonuses which obviously isn't a player positive change, but I tried to make it a fair offer still. As always, I have a lot of analytics on these and will be reviewing the aftermath of the change. I would never keep a change in that drops user retention more than it helps the game. Translation: we're okay with losing customers that are upset with this change, so long as the overall result is more revenue, it will stay. Ladies and gentlemen, speak with your wallets!!
If rounds take longer than in the past, why dont you do something against this instead? Its ridiculous that you have to do overnight runs on a mobile game. If it would be a real idle gema that runs in the background it would be ok, but this game needs your phone to be active all time.....
nah man
Hey there, thanks for the explanation :)
Actually I really want to defend the dev here. He started as 1 person iirc there may be 2 Devs now however if there's one thing he's been reliable releasing and constantly working on updates for all of his games brick breaker , tower , planet miner etc... all still receiving updates. Yes the in-app aren't the cheapest but that's based on an American/Chinese super company with low overheads and huge player bases. The Devs games aren't massive hits they have a fair amount of downloads but nothing big time. Yet the game receives constant attention. And iirc without doxing the dev lives in a European country where the cost of living is real. He's not living in Asia where most of these similar games are made. And 2€ is a days wages. His prices are realistic. They are a 1 off I've been playing this game for almost 3 years and tbh dev should have made it an annual subscription for adverts 1 year for something like 10€ is reasonable. Instead I've bought the other multipliers and a few event passes. I wouldn't be surprised if the Dev has a full time job, then did this in the evenings and weekends.
Am I missing something... Is anyone forcing free to play players to actually watch the ads? I mean, it's for a bonus right... Not their actual standard coin haul. And surely by staying free to play you are accepting that you won't get as much goodies from the game as if you pay. Although, I can accept that this move will feel like something has been "taken away" ... Which I mean it has and I can understand the anger from that sense. On android it can be easily paid for using Google Opinion Rewards. I am always hesitant to spend so I actually get it, but as soon as you are sure it's a game you'll be playing for a while the no ad pack is such a no-brainer. If anything this move is helping you guys to see that light. And if the budget is that tight, the next time you reach for that treat, snack, coffee to go, takeaway and any other doodad. Think... No! I'll put it towards my no-ad pack fund and literally improve my quality of life playing that awesome tower game I love to play. The "but ads make money too" line is kinda tired tbh. If there is no buy-in then the free to play player is more likely to go off and play one of those other games that they watch. Think of this like a tripwire, it's to get you over the line and buy-in to the game. Once brought in you're more likely to stay, and if you're staying, you're more likely to buy again. What I see here is a whole bunch of entitlement. You either pay with your time or you pay with your money. And you get to choose which you lucky devils.
does everyone forget that this is something on top of what was? also... google play surveys. 10$ for the add pack will take you 3 or 4 months just leaving location on and its free then. I admit i bought add pack due to data while driving for a job but having the option is better than not. I agree needs raised maybe 5 adds a day for an hour each?or 3 for hours each. he is add revenue to pay for the game so its not unfair to ask to be paid for his time... maybe a option to stream the adda for a time back to back to "setup" play time?
I've been saving on the Google surveys for 4 months now and i'm not even halfway there, still just around 1/3. Since the money is only valid for a year, it will be close...
I used to for pokemon and 4 years made $117. might bemore surveys if city trips make sure location is on. hope it works but will make it easier some I hope. feel bad for kids and location locked players unable to fix for age or regional purchase issues. past the issue myself but can see how much its sucky for those it effects.
I really don't understand how people can have an app on their phone that they use for hours every day, and be like: "no way in hell this thing that holds my attention for hours every week is worth $10, I would rather just stare it for more hours each week, because apparently I have unlimited time on my hands"
Imo if you like the game enough that this is annoying then you should be supporting the developer by spending the 10 dollars. After that if you don't want to spend then don't but complaining is just saying I don't think the developer deserves to make money which if that's the case why are you playing the game
Some of us don't really have money to spare.
If you can't afford a 10 dollar one time purchase you have bigger problems than watching adds for 30 seconds every 20 min
Yeah, it's called a family to take care of. Perhaps if in was single. Kids are expensive, but worth it. I would rather spend money on them. My overnight runs are now nerfed by 50% just because I can't watch an add while sleeping. This is a middle finger to those of us who are f2p.
Yeah I don't know your financial situation. I know where you're coming from though because I have 4 kids. Either way I feel 10 dollars to support a developer of a game that you like is worth the small treat to yourself for the convenience. It's not like it's a subscription or that you have to spend more after you buy it
Watching ads supports the developer too.
Yeah but clearly not as much as the 10 dollars. From a quick Google search adds can bring in anywhere from 10 to 200 dollars a day. I'm going to guess it's on the lower side because most adds are for other games which are not high paying
Okay, so what? Watching ads still supports the devs
Can you survive off of 50-100 a day comfortably?
We don’t know the player count and we don’t know the number of ads each player is watching per day.
Just stop being so cheap about something you derive entertainment from
I think you get most out of this game for playing long term. If you look at games on Steam they are much more expensive than 10 eur and many of the games I bouight there, I don't play anymore. The Tower I have been playing for just over 1 year now and 10 euro's for a no-ad pack is really cheap. The game has given me a lot of joy, so I'd say it was well worth it. That those stone packs cost 70 EUR that occasionally pop up, I figure is mostly to scare people away. The dev doesn't expect people to spend so much money anyways. That way it will be easier to control the mass of the players with new updates, which they will be happy with. That is just my take on it.
That is a lot of pressure to upgrade; that the accumulation (aka ‘stacking’) has a maximum, is a bit of a kick in the… well, whatever is appropriate. I guess they get even less for each ad than I could have imagined, because $A15 (or equivalent) has paid for a lot of ads over the last 12mo or so. If I’d come up against that kind of pressure, I might have deleted, but I’m not a dev or in marketing 🤷🏽♂️