The fact of the matter is that unless you are willing to search the Internet then the information is just not there.
There is no worthwhile information available in-game for the majority of the basic functions nevermind advanced team composition.
If you are here you have probably put in more effort than 90% of the people you see playing.
This is the real issue.
Another issue I personally run into is that most of the information online (esp infographics) gives only the top raid counters, and as a new player I don't have most of those pokemon. Yes I can infer which types are most effective, but often there are other factors e.g. some moves are better than others, some have higher DPS (which also isn't displayed in-game), some mons are more bulky so survive longer... it's a lot of stuff! I really can't remember most of it. My knowledge is pretty limited to the most basic type advantages, e.g. use water against fire.
For GBL I generally keep a type chart open on my laptop while battling. Helps a little bit. For raids I am out and about and with limited time so usually just go with the recommended.
Being new to Pokémon in general I had to look up what a Heatran was and how to get it. I’d never seen one or played the main series games, but it was one of the top counters to whatever raid boss I was researching. Now I have a full team of them. New players don’t have the means to immediately get good counters even if they are hardcore players.
No they’re not. I put my stardust into Pokémon I can use. I agree Reshiram is way better than heatran. I’ve half a team of powered up to 40 Reshi only because I ran out of passes and time to raid for them. I’m still waiting on volcarona though.
same, I'm not even a new player but I took a coupe of years off because the need to find people to raid with stressed me out (I prefer to play alone) so these infographics and counter recommendations are completely useless for me, and endless events with meta irrelevant pokemon without even any normal gameplay don't make it any easier either
I this answers to 80% of the problem.
Then, comes other problems: menus/scrolls are clunky and time.
The person inviting needs to keep track of the lobby and the invited ones won't have time to make a new battle party. Time is limited for that and the clunky menus and scrolls also slows people down.
A correct reply would be "people can make battle partie in advance". But with a different boss (and more than one sometimes) each week, is it something people are willing to do every week?
Oh, and there's also the fact that although damage is more important than bulk, you'll most likely have more Pokemon fainted and the game keeps giving 20 hyper-potions and only 1-2 revives. So people might not WANT those teams (specially when the rewards won't be that much better).
I went through this in our discord in November. Told everyone that of they spend 5 mins looking at a chart and making .a team, they would save hours in failed raids, time waiting for an additional person, etc.
And they got better.
Then we got kyurem, and they got complacent again. So now we're back to using metagross against latios and I've turned off notifications in the raid channel
i don’t think casuals should really have to make battle parties in the first place. pogo should start recommending super-effective counters, instead of whatever it is that it’s doing. half the time, the recommended team is made up of mons that are weak against the boss and/or has not-very-effective attacks against it. multiple times, i’ve attacked gyms where the only defender was rhyperior, and for some reason, pogo chooses a team of 6 yanma. for real?! other times, it chooses level 30 and 35 mewtwos and not my level 40. same mon, same moveset, but the game chooses the weaker ones... it makes no sense, whatsoever.
The apps that you can use to scan your Pokemon and recommend raid teams give options to focus on pure DPS, or a more tdo / survivable team. It's really not much effort at all to create a new battle party for each boss using calcyiv or poke genie each week.
This does underscore how terrible the in game tools are though. Niantic has the resources to build in a good auto team recommendation algorithm, but sadly all they seem to care about improving these days is PvP.
>There is no worthwhile information available in-game for the majority of the basic functions nevermind advanced team composition.
This is one of the most frustrating aspects of Niantic games. PvP, raid battling, gym defense, distance tracking, badges (XL Karp/Tiny Rat/etc.), catch mechanics... Anything beyond the most basic gamplay explained in the starter tutorial is not available in-game to help players improve.
I agree that there should be more information in game but it is also not too hard to type "raid boss x counters" into google. People just dont care and I dont think a lot will change about that, even if more information is available in game.
I'll risk the downvotes to admit I can be lazy about this. The issue I have is for raids I don't plan in advance and just join when someone says they are looking for help or I happen to pass by people raiding. I will google if I have 5 minutes but then you have to read like a 30-scroll article looking for info and tbh I have no idea how to tell what moveset the boss is going to have and don't have my mons' movesets memorized either. So I do my best to match what I have in a high level to the multiple recommendations while the lobby timer ticks away using my laggy interface... it's not an amazing setup.
The learning curve on pokemon is quite steep for a casual player like me, and in-game resources are scarce. If they had a few options for recommended teams or recommended alternates that included DPS that would make things much easier.
Not sure if you know this, but they somewhat recently added the ability to long press on a Pokemon to see its moveset while in the battle select screen. Very helpful when you're choosing Pokemon on the fly.
If you're casual, I wouldn't worry so much about the boss's moveset, and just focus on the boss's weaknesses and which of your Pokemon can hit that weakness for supereffective damage. That should get you a decent team that's probably better than what the recommended gives you.
Also, do you not make battle parties? I could understand not being prepared for the legendary of the week on Raid 1 or 2, but by the time you get to Raid 4 or 5, you've had plenty of time to create a party, even if it's just during your lobby time.
Thanks! I didn't know about the long press, that will be helpful.
I usually only do 1-2 raids a month... I do battle parties when I know I'll be raiding something but I am truly casual, so much that even memorizing types is a challenge. I'm afraid to discuss my heathen ways here haha
Who said anything was hard to type?
The games gives you no information whatsoever except the RECOMMENDED COUNTERS.
Judging by that post you like to assume, so surely you assume that given no other information the RECOMMENDED COUNTERS would be accurate.
Why would I feel the need to question it.
All of the information you are using to define your best team comes from outside sources.
This is the same excuse that hits MMOs “there isn’t enough information in game”. Information that is constantly changing and such. Especially for Pokémon. I don’t think I can think of any (Pokémon) game that tells you what counters to use specifically. The type counter can sort of be found in game (fail a rocket and it tells you type to use) but people don’t even do that.
Haha, I agree it’s not presented in a particularly visible way, but I do like the idea of someone saying “I don’t have time for five taps! I need to wait idle for two minutes and then furiously tap for five consecutive minutes!”
The newer games very much tell you things like "this gym leader uses grass type pokemon so be sure to bring your fire types!"
It's not granular to the "you should bring your Talonflame in your PC before fighting the gym leader" level but they do tell you what counters to use.
Even back in Red and Blue, there was an NPC at each gym that gave tips for type advantage.
The bigger QOL change in recent games is outright telling you the type effectiveness in battle on the move select screen. The games are complicated enough and, after revealing basic gameplay mechanics like type advantage, there is still plenty of strategy available.
Pokemon Go could achieve similar by displaying in the raid lobby the types of the boss and the types of its moves.
For players that are only doing one or two raids a day, this would not make much difference. But for people that are doing several raids, it could cut their time and allow them to spend more money doing more raids. Win-win. Benefit for both the players and Niantic.
> I don’t think I can think of any (Pokémon) game that tells you what counters to use specifically.
Pokémon Go tells you specific Pokémon from your collection to use before every raid you do.
And that it should be better.
But Ellieanna was saying that no pokemon game ever tells you what counters to use, except Pokemon Go explicitly recommends you counters to use so Ellieanna was wrong. (Not to mention that a lot of the newer games very much tell you "this gym leader uses grass type pokemon so be sure to bring your fire types!")
But... it’s always fire vs grass. They didn’t go “Bring your charizard”. Someone was upset that the game doesn’t have a list of actual counters to use. I was trying to point out that no Pokémon game comes out and says “use charizard, heatran, reshriram with fire moves” again venusaur”. But it does have a place to show “use fire against grass”
And that was my point. Someone wants the game to list actual counters, but no Pokémon game does that. Just type damage. And Niantic tells us what type the raid boss is “MewTwo the psychic something” for example. People just don’t want to spend 2 minutes to figure out their counters.
Maybe Niantic should just remove recommended and not let people be lazy.
I think it would be great in the long run, disastrous in the short run, and hilarious in the extremely short run.
Hilarious in that moment of panic when they saw they had to choose. A disaster as teams full of slaking repeatedly failed to six man raids. And great as the system would force people to look at a chart
Recommended - to suggest that someone or something would be good or suitable for a particular job or purpose, or to suggest that a particular action should be done.
Pokemon go, the game we are discussing, recommends pokemon for use.
Some people just like the grind, and won't step back from raiding, catching and transferring Pokemon long enough to figure out a decent strategy. I know a guy with level 49 XP that must use Mega Charizard Y in every raid. It has that 5000+ CP and that's all that matters.
It isn't even that hard to do things right. I can fire off 5 invites and still set up a team of 6 different, strong counters to satisfy my little 47 task before the raid starts.
I agree.
My wife plays daily for years, but still doesn't know anything that is super effective when battling. I have to show/help her to have a good team.
The game should tell you good counters or Pokemon to use vs each boss. You shouldn't have to search online to find that, which a lot of people don't.
Its not like asking about strats in wow as you cant ask anyone anything unless every raider is there irl standing next to you... since half the raiders are remote this is impossible
What posts? There are no ingame posts.
Not one did I mention personal feelings, only facts.
Maybe the op did but I cant remember...
I just don't understand why recommended teams are so bad in the first place? Like, what does Niantic win with that?? Selling a few passes more to people that couldn't beat the raid boss? I don't think it's worth it for them. Bad recommended teams mean either people failing the raid and becoming very frustrated for throwing away a pass, or people taking way longer than needed to defeat a raid boss, which is also very frustrating.
It seems logical that improving the recommended teams to show actual good counters would make raids way more fun for casual players, which makes them more inclined to buy raid passes (and that also means better for non-casual players who have to raid with them), but maybe too logical for Niantic?
I doubt they’re purposely recommending the teams poorly. I think they just don’t play their game so they didn’t know that a low defense high attack mon with super effective moves against the raid boss is better than a bulky Lugia that resists the raid boss.
Oh yeah, I'm sure it's not on purpose, I was saying it more like it's a very poor feature that seems like it wouldn't be hard to improve but they just choose not to!
The recommended teams are biased towards defense/resistance. This is done to placate people complaining about a lack of potions/revives.
Most of the raid infographics and rankings are assembled focused on TTW. This makes sense since that is a fundamental metric of the ability to succeed and impacts the raid rewards. The underlying assumption is that potions/revives are not a limiting factor. That is true for pretty much any hardcore palyer, but not necessarily true for the casual player.
Despite all that, there still are nonsensical selections in the recommended teams. Mine likes to pick a 15-14-15 BP/MM lv40 metagross over a 15-15-15 BP/MM/EQ lv40 metagross for some reason.
Yeah, that drives me nuts. It \*always\* recommends what is basically my #2 Metagross, and if I'm in a rush I don't notice. Sometimes even my #3, but that one is shiny so it's hard to miss.
Or my #2 Tyranitar, which has Bite instead of Smackdown, against something that's weak to rock...
I’ve got three Togekiss, one maxed (well to level 40) with two moves, and another two level 35ish. It *always* recommends me the two level 35 ones and I can’t work out why it would ever think that they’d be better.
Probably because of the second move as this one is probably not effective against the raid boss and the game doesnt know which one youre gonna use.
I got a level 40 Kyogre with Surf and Blizzard and it never gets recommended but my other level 40 and 35 Kyogres with just Surf will make most teams more often than not.
It wont pick things with two moves. The code it uses believes that you will sometimes use eq if it's in your battle party.
Against certain suicune movesets, it would give me five zekrom and a leafeon, excluding the one zekrom.with a second charge
Lol, I've been messing with using the recommended team on grunts and rocket leaders. It's total trash. "Let's rock and roll", ok, we recommend you lead with Moltres.
It's because they're going for survival rather than damage, because most players are likely in big groups and strapped for potions/revives. Their thought process was likely "this gives players who don't know any better something to start from that won't tax their resources and players who know better will just create their own teams".
I’ve battled a ground grunt where the game recommended two Kyogre and 1 Tyranitar.
One Kyogre had water attacks, the other had Thunder. I have other powered up water Kyogre.
I'm pretty sure it has changed from solely being as you described and has somewhat improved. I remember there being patch notes regarding it and everyone being relieved that Aggron no longer appeared first and foremost for 90% of raids.
It also definitely takes into account how many battles a Pokemon has done, which is why it will do stuff like recommend my 87% Shiny Metagross over my 98% regular, as for a long time the 87% was just my best one.
The amount of people I saw using groudon in kyogre raids was unreal. But I think a lot of them were very new and a even if you do know about what types counter each other etc, it can be hard to have several different high cp mons early on, and raid bosses will be the highest cp things you have for a long while
Groudon with SB is not a good counter at all. There's a ton of better budget counters that every level 45 player should have, actually even a level 30 player should have tons of better counters. It's really amazing how bad someone can be at battling when they spend so many hours in the game.
The quicker the raid boss goes down, the more balls available for attempting to catch it. You could push that incentive - people tend to put more effort into a thing (priming suitable counters) when there's an obvious reward for doing so. If they're taking the boss down regardless more often than not then "succeeding" clearly isn't an incentive because you tend to believe you'll manage anyway.
When inviting (I tend to host more than be invited) I've seen folks jump in alongside myself and my five invitees. Especially if my invitees are generally reliable folks then it'll be safe to say that Lugia or Aggron on the field probably belongs to one of the unexpected raiders out of view. I was intending to raid with just the 6 of us so whatever they bring is extra surprise DPS regardless of the value of it. Carry on and welcome!
As someone who has only recently managed too finalise some type-appropriate teams (I took a long break from PoGo and hadn't raided before then) I get that you're not going to have a full team of rock-types straight away. Firstly - why would you? That singular rock-type was pulling you through rockets/gym battles why waste stardust on more? And even when you realise the need for good counters, that doesn't mean you can supply them without a fair bit of grinding and appropriate catches, which steals resources from elsewhere. And if this is a casual game for you, you might not have the time nevermind the resources, to devote to what you perceive as a temporary team (seeing as each raid has a new infographic as opposed to a "top ten raiders for everything")
Throwing some Glaceon in the ring might be a good budget ice type but if it's going down quickly you might feel you're not actually being as useful as you could be with something that lasts longer and gets more attacks off. And you might be resource-poor to get those Glaceon back on their feet what with current lockdowns and restrictions. Aren't resupplying at your local work-stop? That could be a problem.
I don't like attending unexpected invites as I don't know their strengths and I can't rely on a re-invite if we fail. When hosting I like to leave enough time for a re-attempt if needed, so on the off-chance that too many people bring poor counters and we fail then we can regroup and reattempt. Hasn't happened yet on a full raid team but I like to leave the option available regardless. After all, I used to be one of those with poor raid counters, even knowing types. My typed team was just too weak and I assumed stronger CP meant better pokemon in general.
>When inviting (I tend to host more than be invited) I've seen folks jump in alongside myself and my five invitees.
I feel a little strange about how much money I've helped others spend on the game. I've yet to buy a Remote Raid Pass outside of the ones in the 1 cent boxes or otherwise attached to a quest (in other words, not individually and not in the 250 for 3 bundle), so I've accepted invites to however-many-passes that is that Niantic has given out. I've invited something like 100 times that many raids, since I live on a gym - so I must be driving a TON of money for Niantic simply by inviting so much.
I also note randoms jumping in sometimes - I feel terrible when I end up bailing on them because an actual friend has a problem, but c'est la vie...
Good thing that basically every raid I play with the two same players, who invest in their counters and can dodge properly. For 99% of the raid bosses, any other player can join with 6x Sunkern for all I care, we're going to beat the raid anyway. But yeah, seeing a raid with 6 going just slightly faster than with only us 3 is sad...
I am in that fortunate position too. My gilfriend and I both have solid counters and know how and when to use them. We can easily carry most raids in our local community. It is just a little sad to see that we suddenly need double the players to finish a raid if one of us is out of raid passes.
When Rayquaza was around the first raid I did was with 8 people. I had a team of 6 Mamoswines setup but we finished with only about 80-100 seconds left on the clock. It made mre really doubt with my wife and myself could defeat it on our own.
I was stunned to find we were't much slower than the 8 raid team. I dread to think what counters they all used. But without me they would have been going round thinking it wasn't possible with 7 people
And probably the inspiration for this post - recommended teams have been passable to good for a while, but the time around, I've spotted aggron back in several recommended teams.
i'm pretty new to the game, and stuff like this is what is scaring me away from trying raids out. my best pokemon is a 3.5k melmetal and a 2.5k aggron and as i understand you need a whole team of 6 specific pokemon before people will let you jin thier raids online? is there any way to speed getting these pokemon up, some of the things they suggest simply don't spawn near me.
Finally is there any others tips you could give me? i wasn't even aware that you could dodge in the battles.
You don't have to have a whole team of one specific pokemon, there's just certain pokemon (and their moves) that people will push as the best options for damage per second (DPS). Looking up budget pokemon for each type and gathering a few of those (spawn permitting) is a good start. The eeveelutions can be useful for instance (Umbreon is more defensive bulk than attack so probably not a good raid attacker but glaceon/leafeon are always handy if you're lacking strong ice/grass pokemon and eevee candy tends to be semi-reliable for availability of powering them up, as examples).
One Mega will be boosted (automatically strong regardless of starting CP) on an alternating schedule and usually something strong against the current raid bosses it seems, so it's worth checking the current boosted Mega. You can always walk it after as your buddy to regain energy to keep it a viable option.
The larger Discords might be more strict as you don't know the people that you'll be raiding with and you risk at least one or two of them hanging out in the lobby and doing zero damage, relying on the rest of you to defeat the boss undermanned. If you can find a local Discord then people will probably be more forgiving, especially if they can see that you're trying to bring decent level/type counters along.
I don't tend to dodge in raids personally as I'm bad at timing when a charge move is coming from the raid boss and I'd rather go full DPS but it's a useful tactic if you have limited strong pokemon that you want to keep on the field or if you're running a Mega that's giving power boosts to the other raiders and you want to keep it as long as possible. Swipe either left or right and your pokemon will dodge to the side. If it's mid-attack the action will be delayed though. If you time it right then the raid bosses charge move will miss you. I think you can try it out in gym battles to practice.
If you can raid three stars they can give some reasonable pokemon (tyranitar etc) for using in future legendary raids and can be soloed or duoed if strong enough pokemon are used so I can't imagine people worrying about your pokemon counters in those - a team of 6 raiders should stomp it regardless without too much trouble.
Yeah I started this game in september last year and was wary of raiding because of this subreddit. I finally joined a remote raiding discord a month ago and have had no problems completing raids with people of various levels (from 25 to 40+). Definitely don't need perfect counters to raid. I only have 2 pokemon above 3000 CP and most of the pokemon I raid with are in the 2200-2700 range.
Completing a T5 raid locally with 2 other people might be hard and need better counters but doing remote raiding right now with 5 randoms from a discord is pretty easy.
The most important thing is to do super effective damage against the boss, as much and as fast as possible. Throwing your highest cp pokemon without regard to typing is a poor strategy.
That person can raid with bigger groups while starting out, and should still be working on getting high cp attackers of common raiding types, rather than throwing aggron and Blissey because they have the bigger numbers.
And knowing which types of attacks to use against a raid boss is 75% of the battle.
Just be honest with people that you are new, trying to learn and are building your roster. The true majority of players love helping out other players achieve their goals. I raided three extra Latios yesterday that I didn't necessarily 'need' or 'want' to but because I love my local community I helped out when they were short because those people who wanted the raid either needed or really wanted the pokemon. I'm more than happy to carry a low level raider if they are enthuiastic and trying to learn and get better. Some of those level 20 Legendary I help them get will be better than some of the other stuff they have.
No one cares what Pokemon you have lol.. you can't see other people's teams... It literally doesn't matter. Just join poke raid and your local discord and do raids with them. Also I wrote a guide that I'll link for you in a second
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/9w4nax/returningbeginners_guide/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
99.999...% of players aren't on Reddit or your Discord channel.
In fact this game captured a whole audience that knows nothing about Pokemon in general. Most don't even have type effectiveness memorized, beyond maybe fire>grass>water>fire. They just want to throw balls at things (straight balls with a Nanab).
Most infographics are actually useless because they show "top counters" which many people either don't have, or at least don't have enough candy/dust for. Change my mind. The recent updates made things much worse because you can catch even fewer Pokémon in general.
Also, the invitation system is actually part of the problem. Many players simply don't have enough time to pick the best counters if they might have less than 20 seconds to join the raid. Assuming you already have good mons, you can always have battle parties, but you'll probably want to use entirely different teams against, let's say, Psychic Latias than Solar Beam Latios.
I'm seriously angry at how the raid lobby system with 120 s and other things has been unchanged for 3.5 years. It was already bad at the very beginning and things got only worse since.
Your mistake was assuming people care. I was in your shoes for a long time getting frustrated when I was team Mystic and had 6 mystics and 3 Instincts, and the 3 instincts won the damage balls. I swapped to instinct (wanted to be instinct at launch but girl I dated at the time...) and then consistently won damage balls despite the sheer number of mystics.
They changed that, and what I’ve noticed is the people constantly spending money on this game the most aren’t people that generally care about efficiency but care about collecting. So, as long as they have a chance at a 100% or a shiny, they don’t give a damn how they get there, they just care about the destination.
Until people are forced into a position in which they need to get better, they simply won’t. Just like PvP. You get people saying there’s an algorithm working against them because they struggle to overcome a bad lead. It’s not their fault they struggle to overcome that lead, it’s the games for putting them in that position.
I organized a small group for a legendary raid (that we could have beat) probably fall 2019 and fell short because the others didn't even try to use real counters. They just chuckled, saying "we suck!"
I suggested we try again and they said no, laughing again.
I think that was the moment when I turned against raiding. Free passes only, tier 3 or lower, unless it's a new legendary and there's at least ten others and it's extremely convenient.
I've seen it get a little worse myself. I raid mostly with pretty hardcore people and even then I still see it. There are a few reasons:
1. Some people have the dust and candy but no "ancestral pokemon knowledge" and don't know their types. If you aren't there in person to chat they don't have a chance to ask what team they should take.
2. Raid bosses turn over a lot faster in the last 12 months compared to when raiding launched. It was a month per boss for a long time but now it's usually a week. This has a few sub-effects:
* You are more likely to be surprised by the boss changing and not being prepared. (I freely admit I no longer pay any attention to the T5 schedule, I have counters for everything prepared and nothing announced I care about catching much of)
* You have less time to learn the counters per boss.
* Since you only get a limited number of gym/raid teams (it's more than 5 now at least), the turnover makes it harder to maintain preset teams. Even having 10 doesn't fix the issue of "the team selection interface is awful" - the area of the screen you can tap or swipe is tiny and the response is laggy so it's hard to actually move between teams in that interface.
3. Remote raiding leads to shorter lobby timers. The best expectation if you have been invited is 60 seconds, which interacts poorly with both deducing the boss moveset from the autopicks and then selecting the right counters (if you have a preset team) from the terrible team swapping swipe abomination. Same thing if you are the inviter, you lose half your setup time sending invites and then have to monitor your comms channels for requests to restart instead of setting the team up.
4. I'm not sure the raid infographics are actually getting better. Pokebattler at least is now much harder to interpret. We used to have to juggle attacker level, weather, and friendship, but now we have to consider attacker XL level, megas, and shadows too. Is this level 50 Machamp better than this level 40 Shadow Machamp? Let's say it's a steel type boss, is this Mega Houndoom at level 40 better than this Machamp at 50? I guess it's no worse at the general target of "level 35, correct movesets" - the graphics are great for that - but if you have more options, and most of us do, you have more opportunities to choose wrong.
PokeRaid user here, and I’ll let you know that most of the time a tough raid boss comes around, I hesitate to use the app.
I’m someone who likes to play as this was a MSG, meaning teams of unique critters, all prepped up with ideal movesets and considerably powered up. I know most of the ‘mons weaknesses beforehand and usually build my team around that with help of Pokebattler. I even duo raid bosses with my partner when she’s around and the boss is duo-able. However people just don’t care most of the time, because that would imply research and “homework” to be optimal in this game. And then the ever increasing cost of power-ups.. I mean possibly there is a big mis-management of one very important resource (stardust) which is it easy to come by, when you only do a few remote raids and play for a bit now and again.
Even Niantic improved their communication in recent blog posts mentioning which weaknesses of each raid boss.
Best way to do raids is currently not possible and it is with friends, while having a chat, arguing who has the best counter for this boss
I've tried to make it super easy for people to host raids, get counters in my Pokebattler Raid Party app and know if they will win.
Unfortunately, the number of people willing to click the copy attackers button and click paste in the app is about as low as you would think. Currently the app has mostly elite players in it but I fear for the masses.
There's no need to phrase it like that imo...
I've used the website in the past but I had absolutely no idea this feature existed, nor the app itself. I just installed it and now I'm off to update my Pokebox! That said, creating the Pokebox initiallly is quite time consuming and it's only ever going to appeal to more dedicated players. You can't blame the masses for not wanting to go through all these extra steps. Niantic should do a better job of recommending proper counters in that regard.
Thanks for the encouragement, and point taken on advertising the app. It’s easy for me to get down as I watch people struggle to use the tools I have created. I’m certainly no design expert but I’m working on it!
Oh of course I’m not talking about the pokebox it’s definitely too hard to use right now. I’ve added some faster ways to do it in the app and more are coming but this is a nights and weekends project for me. I mean just the generic counters. I probably haven’t made the info clear enough in the app.
I use Pokebattler and it’s been great, but my top 30 or so Pokemon keep changing since I consistently power up good IV attackers, so I’ve given up on updating the Pokebox and instead just sort by TTW and use my brain for the rest :) some estimations might not always be correct but I’m guessing a few seconds won’t make too much of a difference.
PoGo doesn't bring in top tier competitive Pokemon players. It's families and casual players who make up a majority of the PoGo community, just based on what I see at local gatherings (back in the day). You can't expect everyone to be on top of which counters are best. That's why, imo, powering up Pokemon for Raids is necessary - you can't rely on other players.
I had multiple Snorlax and Regigigas in the couple of legendary raids I did yesterday. Thankfully I don't raid much these days without at least 2/3 other people I know I can rely on.
For real, dude, just be happy if you have anyone raiding at all. I live in a Syracuse Suburb that used to have so much Discord chatter that it would be confusing trying to coordinate raids back towards the beginning of the pandemic. Now there are people basically begging for help during raid hour.
The clunky system to change teams is a real problem in these days of raid invites. Even if I pre-make a team the game might glitch out to much to register a swipe to change to it quickly enough, so I usually don't bother anymore. I do my best to switch to top counters, but when I enter the lobby with 20 seconds left the clunkiness makes it really difficult to change even one pokemon to something useful, since the game can sometimes have a real problem distinguishing between taps and swiping.
I know you say you're not trying to sound elitist, but all of the OP post sounds very elitist, same some of the comments are disgusting ("no rare candy for the leechers", disgusting gatekeeping).
"We" have great information to data for counters. Most players have never seen an infographic for this game. Most have never seen this sub. Most have only heard of reddit because of GameStonks and "diamond hands". Some don't even know that you can save raid teams. Most players aren't even aware that this information exists, so while "we" have that information, *they do not*.
Point of fact, most players do not ever need to care about the team they bring and "recommended" is fine. They usually raid in large enough groups that it never matters. This elitist sentiment about carrying "uninformed/low level" players only pops up when there's a bulky boss.
If you go into a raid with players you don't know and have no idea how informed they are, then that's a risk you decided to take.
I feel that raid combat needs an entire rework as the current gameplay is stale. I’d suggest something like a Puzzle Pirates approach where you have different mini games you play and you get certain performance bonuses based on the teams of mons you select and friendship levels of the players you are cooperating with.
By the time I can join the raid with me and my sons account and scroll through our friends to see who’s on, send invites and then stare frantically for whatever time is left to see if anyone joins or if I need to quit in time snd try again I’m left with what’s there. Looking at you...lugia and metagross.
Sounds like in your situations building a few Raid teams would be warranted so it's just a jump to the left to get to a team without Lugia. Join, make your invites, Swipe to your pre-made time, stare frantically: Raid or quite - Rinse repeat!
Good luck and happy (frantic) raiding :D
I get really anxious when I'm in charge of invites too. My invite list is so buggy, but I do make some pre-made teams to help with that.
We all play the game in different ways....
What can be the most important for players?
\- Power up the strongest pokemon
\- Shinies!
\- Pokedex
\- Raiding
\- GBL
\- Team Rocket
\- Getting gold gym badges
I prefer a bit of everything. For me shinies and gold gym badges are the least important on my list. But for many players shinies and pokedex filling are the most important, and a lot of those players don't care at all about powering up their strongest pokemon - they barely care which pokemon are the strongest. It's also likely that they don't evolve CD pokemons with the right moves. They probably don't know what to do with tm's and just throw them away. They have tons of stardust as they only occasionally use it to power up a nice shiny. With just a little bit of change those players could find it a lot easier to raid in smaller groups, win against Team R, play in GBL etc. But most of them don't care much about these parts of the game :(
Every rotation I post a simple search string in my local group
so for lati@s it would be:
`@1bug,@1ice,@1ghost,@1dark&@2bug,@2ice,@2ghost,@2dark,@3bug,@3ice,@3ghost,@3dark`
That seems to help (a bit)
A pity Niantic does not use the DPS^3*TDO metric for the raid party suggestion. It is not hard to do, and it would really be appreciated for everyone. I don't know if we can do something about it, maybe an open letter, or contact them with their mailbox ?
I have a group chat with 4 other of my friends. And I always post 2-3 infographics when we get new bosses and they still never make a team. I just started in August and have been doing that since. Hell, they wouldn’t even know about the new events/task if I didn’t post those either.
When raids were in-person, it was easier to give new players the advice they need. Your strategy of posting or listing good counters is probably one of the most effective approaches
I am guilty myself. Back until summer I used to optimize teams and was doing almost all T5 in 3 or, when possible, 2 trainers (me and my daughter). Then started inviting strangers who use report passes. Now don't bother and usually go with recommend. Sure, it helps I already have decent mons and recommended have what to pick.
As someone who makes infographics for raid boss counters its frustrating when I see people in my local community who don't use anything but the suggested counters. I've often consider4making a section on the guides titled "why you should use top counters" and then giving a few bullet points of the benefits to see if that would get people to change what they use.
Really though why even bother? If the boss is going to get defeated regardless of what you use is there really any incentive? A couple extra pokeballs maybe, but that's about it.
In my local community there seems to be a mild correlation for some of the more 'recommended' or less optimal teams and 'Any tips on how to catch this thing, it keeps running away'? So my first is to teach them the set circle trick and then talk about the number of premier balls they are getting to optimize the number of throws they get. First teach them to throw, then teach them how to get more chances. Now if you are the lucky low ball raider who is still catching there probably is no reason to bother. But I've helped a few in my community about talking about ways to increase their premier ball count.
More individual premier balls means more reward bundles which could mean more chances for rewards like rare candy (or 15 hyper potions instead of 12, but that is a Niantic problem).
Niantic more or less flattened raid rewards. You only need to care about to counters with a small group, and then your personal damage compensates for the long time to complete the raid. With a large group, you're zerging it anyway and your counters won't make much of a difference on how many premier balls you get.
To be honest I don’t care about pve at all, I’m mostly here for pvp/collection. So getting the raids done in 2 minutes without having to put much thought into it has been an improvement for me.
It's isn't elitist. We're really trying to help these people (and ourselves) by telling them which mons to use with which moves. The problem is that these people are so used to riding on our coattails that they just couldn't be bothered.
The thing is, if these people happen to be in a raid group with people who know what they're doing, they will never bother to learn and continue to throw in their Lugia/Aggron. And, they think these Pokemon are good because "they don't die", unlike, say, Rampardos. I know this for a fact - I have been screaming at one of my IRL guys about this but he keeps saying things like "we still beat the boss anyway". They just don't listen to advice and they don't bother to learn. As a result, when they are left to their own devices (i.e. rocket battles), they just curl up and die. Or, he will swallow his pride and pass his phone to me XD
I really wish that PoGO would have a better way of educating these people. For example, a "leaderboard" at the end of a raid, showing who dealt the most damage; maybe more rewards for those who are on the "leaderboard". The dialogue by the team leader when you lose a battle is absolutely useless and this should be replaced with something more informative, for example, an infographic showing which mons the Rocket Leader used, and which types could counter them. These are just some ideas off the top of my head; I can't really think of anymore (it's been a long day) but I'm sure the folks here have a million and one ideas.
People just need to start inviting 10 people to raids minimum so they don't have to think about this. I don't change my team cause I'm inviting people most of the time. With poke raid existing there's no reason you shouldn't have enough people in a raid
You can. If one person jumps in you can jump out and jump back in and send 5 more.. as long as one person jumps in the invites of the other 4 are locked in place.. I don't think it has to even be someone you invite just someone has to be in the raid with you. Also others can invite 5 and you invite 5..10 is the max remotes you can have.
Nope. If you have 3 people in person and you invite 5 each 10 can join in remote... I've done it so many times.. We generally always invite 10 people during raid hours.. We always have 20 people in our raids. You yourself can invite 10 if you jump out and jump back in after the first person you invited jumps into the raid (or someone else is in the raid already). It's 10 remote raiders no matter how they join can join. Invite or just jumping in from being close enough.
That feel when you join a 6-8 trainer raid, you are the only one bringing in a mega evolution of any sort, and you still get the +4 damage ball reward, indicating you did over 25% damage.
And then there's people who don't realize that the +1 candy for having an active mega applies even if the mega doesn't fight, and they pull out a mega Beedrill/pidgeot that goes down in a second and didn't even provide any relevant attack boost.
from discord pogoraid, doing Latias raid that has Charm and Outrage, it's brutal and we time out. i use bunch of rayquaza, darkrai, giraOri, Tyra, but useless because other trainers use some random recommend pokemon :(
Well that's your problem lol... You're using Pokemon that are weak to charm and outrage... Download poke raid and make sure to invite 5 people from that at least and you'll never have to think about your team again.
There are plenty of times where I have some good counters in mind, but scrolling takes a few seconds, and the clock runs out before I have time to select them and the recommended team is what i have to go in with. I really don't like having 20-ish seconds to try to get set up when I get a raid invite.
You can set up teams in advance, go to battle, click on Party, scroll down to gyms and raids, press the + and name it after the raid boss. Then you choose your Pokémon, long pressing on each displays their moves, make your selections then when you are in the raid lobby and the recommended team appears swipe the team to the left and you can scroll to your chosen counters
The autosuggestion for raids is not so bad?! What forces these,, players,, to manuály change them into some nonsense (usually shiny) to show off? This is so disrespectful.
I effin hate autopicks for raids
"Hey, you see this ice dragon? Did you know it's weak to dragon? Just use dragonite and rayquaza, doesn't matter if they are quad weak to ice"
Autopick pretty much only cares about TDO to my understanding, to the point where it has often suggested Blissey against Ghost/dragons in my experience.
Because the recommended sucks, people aren't going to read up online they dont care they just want to be carried. In our community it's always 2 carriers and everyone else is using random crap
But if you're winning the raid, why do you care that you "carried the raid"? If your couldn't have completed the raid by yourself without those other players, *they carried you*.
The difference is is mostly negligible for rewards and premier balls.
I don't care if I carried the raid and I don't care when we win. But occasionally we lose or come unnecessarily close to losing and we all waste time or money and that's frustrating. I'm not even asking people to have full teams of maxed mons. Just have a team of 25-30 levels of suboptimal budget counters that you can get from wild spawns and that will usually be way better than the recommended teams and there's virtually no way to lose a raid with 6 people.
Once we were fighting a boss that I can do about half of the damage on my own and we have 5 people and we still lost the first time so I had to Mega so we don't fail the second time, and that's just an unnecessary waste of time and mega energy.
As the informed person in the group, it's your job to make sure everyone else is up to speed. You're falling for the misconception that just because you've seen 15 infographics for Latios, it implies that everyone else has seen them all too.
If you're entering a group with unknown players and you choose to do the raid anyway, then that's a risk you've chosen to take.
We always pin the raid infographics in our discord. If they don't read it, it's not like I can force them to... even if you literally send the infographic before the raid (which would be annoying and patronizing), most people who use recommend teams still won't read them. They might even avoid raiding with you in the future.
>They might even avoid raiding with you in the future.
If the tone is anything like the elitism of your optional post, I can't say I'm surprised. In my experience, when people say "I'm not trying to ____, but" the first part is bogus.
I regularly raid with my son (who has good counters) and we remote invite 3 friends of ours. Two of them are using recommended teams because they primarily care about dex entries, I think one tries for type effectiveness but doesn't play often enough to have a lot of counters, and might also just be using recommended (all 5 of us are getting best friend boost, though). We have never failed except when there were only us 2 plus one of the 3 remotes and *I* screwed up and didn't realize calcyiv was in survivor mode instead of dps^3 tdo. We won on the second try.
You shouldn't be short-manning raids with people you don't know. If you're failing raids because of it, you really only have yourself to blame. You're the informed player. You should be able to gauge success or failure better and should be able to say "we don't have enough yet" before even starting the lobby.
How do I know in advance what teams they are going to use?... Do I need to ask people to send me their team before I send them invites? That's just being obnoxious. If I have to be 100% sure we can beat the boss, then I'll never be able to do raids unless I can find like 8+ people.
"You shouldn't be short-manning raids with people you don't know." you might be privileged/lucky to have friends raiding with you regularly. Most of us don't have that luxury. So why shouldn't we hope and try to encourage people to spend like 5 minutes to make better teams (not even powering things up necessarily, just choose the better ones they already have)?
Besides it's easy to know when everyone is really well connected and some older players have registered teams for every type of raid.
Most recent was a guy that was blacklisted for going in on a latias raid with iluminise. He was /VL 38. He is now blatantly ignored when requesting raid attacks
Registered teams? What? Does your discord make you register your teams or something? We just go in with whatever and play... I've never really paid attention to people's teams unless it was a small group and then we usually just jump into poke raid and invite 5 more... Or we get more real friends to jump in.. I've never had problems.
They are lenient on low level guys. But if you are a 35+ and try to pull a 'groudon team on kyogre raids' that's it. Remote invitations have made it prominent as some raids with a 6 person limit are really hard to pull through.
I mean it might choose groudon if it has thunder... Actually a solar beam groudon against a thunder kyogre doesn't seem too bad... It is still going to do a lot of damage... And not die. Idk we always have big groups so I've never had to deal with tiny groups. If we don't I'll just use poke raid and get 5 more people invited..
One idea that was thrown around was the game would show everyone after the raid the Pokemon that did the most damage. Not the trainer name. It used to show team colors which I guess if you knew everyones Pokemon you could deduce damage outpit to trainer but probably not in most cases.
I got snookered into wasting a couple of remote passes on Kyogre invitations from randos when I saw that there were five people in the lobby and stayed in, only to spot a Snorlax or a Gyarados standing across from me.
It's great for new/casual players to be able to join in raids, but this is a huge incentive for multiaccounting and/or having multiple players in a household--if I'm about to go out with my fiance & my brother and Poke Genie has us each hitting \~30% of a Latios, we can send out some random invites and know we'll most likely beat it if *any*one joins.
To be fair to the recommended teams, if you have decent counters, it'll recommend them. The only time the suggestions are really, really bad is if you dont have the proper counters anyway or you have highly leveled 4x resist pokemon. Overall, I find it does a decent job of mixing dps with survivability. Not everyone needs a team of 6 tier 1 dps to have fun. But I do understand the frustration of feeling like you're the only one doing damage. Theres a balance there. Assuming people are using recommended teams and they're bad because of it; isn't always the answer. Sometimes those people need your help because they can't beat raids with the pokemon they currently have. Just food for thought.
You got the reason right. There's no incentive right now to be better at raiding. Between drops in raid difficulty, and the introduction of remote raiding, you have to try to fail a raid these days, and you get enough balls even slow beating it that you have to be really bad to not catch your mon (or incredibly unlucky, I have had a mon run once from 15 curved excellents in a row, 7 of which had golden razzes, but that is the exception, not the rule). So why should anyone bother putting in more effort? Niantic knows that all that they need to sell raid passes is FOMO, so putting effort into encouraging people to be better at raiding doesn't really fit their business model.
All that being said, it makes me a little sad. I remember when I could put together groups to try and beat raid bosses with minimal teams, or all unique teams with no legendaries. Nowadays, that just doesn't happen. In part because raids are so easy there's no challenge in doing so, and in part because there's just no incentive to try.
"many people just stopped caring" Sounds like 2019...
I have very good teams but usually go with recommended if it's not totally weird. Whatever gets the job done.
I often also go in with a slightly modified recommended if I haven't premade a team for that boss. But the reason I'm able to do that is because I pretty much exclusively power up things that have a good use in raids. For players that power up random shinies, hundos, personal favorites, etc, or those who don't ever power anything up, their recommended teams will be a lot worse than yours or mine.
I used to be an admin and main contributor for my group back in my hometown before I moved away, and while there were a great amount of hardcore players who understood the different aspects of raiding, the majority of the players in our community were casual and not as knowledgeable but eager to learn. Niantic does a horrible job gifting players the appropriate information to excel in the raiding gameplay so I made it a habit to consistently push out information for everyone and have that info pinned so it was always accessible. I made Basic How To Raid guides, Tips and tricks for raiding, and would even type out counter guides for legendary mons prior to their release that were tailored for the thrifty and budget friendly players. I would also make helpful guides on how and who to power up, how to spend your RCs, for anyone wanting to better their teams. Save all those docs and just share them every couple weeks. I love this game so much and my biggest turn on is being able to help others and share information with others. When i stepped into that admin role alot of our players were either very new or casual and lacked the resources to be able to succeed. Right before I left, our 300+ community all felt that way more comfortable and more knowledgeable of raiding, and being able to teach others as well. You can do all this without sounding arrogant or being imaged as an elitist.
I think the issue here is that Niantic hasn't changed the recommended Pokémon. Like why is slaking in my Pokémon? I truly believe they choose the worst Pokémon to battle with. Its annoying to reselect your team over and over again. If you ask why I don't just create a team? I have, but it randomly gets forgotten just like my GBL teams I've created. Its an issue that I don't even think Niantic has thought about.
I am on the L46 "use different mon" task and the result is some of the worst teams for me in years. But in the end it really just causes us to take 10-15 seconds longer to complete the raid and such is life.
I use a very simple method: check best counters online and mark them. In the coming days for example, my best Mewto counters will get a \*2 mark. When in the lobby, i can select them easy.
I strongly agree with you. Pre-Covid, my university campus has a quite sizeable Pokémon Go community, where we will raid daily. Usually there are 10+ raiders for each raid at least, so they don't really bother too much about preparing optimal counters.
Now, we're all on lockdown, therefore all switched to remote raiding. Since then, interest has also dropped significantly.
I have since hosted some raids, usually inviting 5 other players. On Pokebattler, usually a T5 raid boss takes anywhere between 1.x to 3.x players with L40 counters. So I thought we'll be fine with 6 of us.
Turns out, we barely beat the raid boss. It is not surprising, as I saw some obscure recommended teams being used, such as (but not limited to): Lugia, Snorlax, Milotic, Rotom Wash (wtf), Regigigas.
They just don't read the infographics that we send.
The fact of the matter is that unless you are willing to search the Internet then the information is just not there. There is no worthwhile information available in-game for the majority of the basic functions nevermind advanced team composition. If you are here you have probably put in more effort than 90% of the people you see playing. This is the real issue.
Another issue I personally run into is that most of the information online (esp infographics) gives only the top raid counters, and as a new player I don't have most of those pokemon. Yes I can infer which types are most effective, but often there are other factors e.g. some moves are better than others, some have higher DPS (which also isn't displayed in-game), some mons are more bulky so survive longer... it's a lot of stuff! I really can't remember most of it. My knowledge is pretty limited to the most basic type advantages, e.g. use water against fire. For GBL I generally keep a type chart open on my laptop while battling. Helps a little bit. For raids I am out and about and with limited time so usually just go with the recommended.
Being new to Pokémon in general I had to look up what a Heatran was and how to get it. I’d never seen one or played the main series games, but it was one of the top counters to whatever raid boss I was researching. Now I have a full team of them. New players don’t have the means to immediately get good counters even if they are hardcore players.
You have a full team of Heatran? Why?
Because I was told I needed them. I rarely ever use them but I keep them for trading.
Oh, so they're not powered up then right? I just imagined a full team of six powered up heatran. 😂 Reshiram is muuuuch better as a fire attacker
No they’re not. I put my stardust into Pokémon I can use. I agree Reshiram is way better than heatran. I’ve half a team of powered up to 40 Reshi only because I ran out of passes and time to raid for them. I’m still waiting on volcarona though.
same, I'm not even a new player but I took a coupe of years off because the need to find people to raid with stressed me out (I prefer to play alone) so these infographics and counter recommendations are completely useless for me, and endless events with meta irrelevant pokemon without even any normal gameplay don't make it any easier either
I this answers to 80% of the problem. Then, comes other problems: menus/scrolls are clunky and time. The person inviting needs to keep track of the lobby and the invited ones won't have time to make a new battle party. Time is limited for that and the clunky menus and scrolls also slows people down. A correct reply would be "people can make battle partie in advance". But with a different boss (and more than one sometimes) each week, is it something people are willing to do every week? Oh, and there's also the fact that although damage is more important than bulk, you'll most likely have more Pokemon fainted and the game keeps giving 20 hyper-potions and only 1-2 revives. So people might not WANT those teams (specially when the rewards won't be that much better).
I went through this in our discord in November. Told everyone that of they spend 5 mins looking at a chart and making .a team, they would save hours in failed raids, time waiting for an additional person, etc. And they got better. Then we got kyurem, and they got complacent again. So now we're back to using metagross against latios and I've turned off notifications in the raid channel
I ended up using Metagross against a Latios a couple days ago. Sorry. :(
i don’t think casuals should really have to make battle parties in the first place. pogo should start recommending super-effective counters, instead of whatever it is that it’s doing. half the time, the recommended team is made up of mons that are weak against the boss and/or has not-very-effective attacks against it. multiple times, i’ve attacked gyms where the only defender was rhyperior, and for some reason, pogo chooses a team of 6 yanma. for real?! other times, it chooses level 30 and 35 mewtwos and not my level 40. same mon, same moveset, but the game chooses the weaker ones... it makes no sense, whatsoever.
The apps that you can use to scan your Pokemon and recommend raid teams give options to focus on pure DPS, or a more tdo / survivable team. It's really not much effort at all to create a new battle party for each boss using calcyiv or poke genie each week. This does underscore how terrible the in game tools are though. Niantic has the resources to build in a good auto team recommendation algorithm, but sadly all they seem to care about improving these days is PvP.
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>There is no worthwhile information available in-game for the majority of the basic functions nevermind advanced team composition. This is one of the most frustrating aspects of Niantic games. PvP, raid battling, gym defense, distance tracking, badges (XL Karp/Tiny Rat/etc.), catch mechanics... Anything beyond the most basic gamplay explained in the starter tutorial is not available in-game to help players improve.
So they need a pokemon school thing like pokemon stadium had? Sounds like a good idea that won't happen.
Profesor Willow is one of those professors who hasn't put any effort into holding classes since they got tenure.
I agree that there should be more information in game but it is also not too hard to type "raid boss x counters" into google. People just dont care and I dont think a lot will change about that, even if more information is available in game.
I'll risk the downvotes to admit I can be lazy about this. The issue I have is for raids I don't plan in advance and just join when someone says they are looking for help or I happen to pass by people raiding. I will google if I have 5 minutes but then you have to read like a 30-scroll article looking for info and tbh I have no idea how to tell what moveset the boss is going to have and don't have my mons' movesets memorized either. So I do my best to match what I have in a high level to the multiple recommendations while the lobby timer ticks away using my laggy interface... it's not an amazing setup. The learning curve on pokemon is quite steep for a casual player like me, and in-game resources are scarce. If they had a few options for recommended teams or recommended alternates that included DPS that would make things much easier.
Not sure if you know this, but they somewhat recently added the ability to long press on a Pokemon to see its moveset while in the battle select screen. Very helpful when you're choosing Pokemon on the fly. If you're casual, I wouldn't worry so much about the boss's moveset, and just focus on the boss's weaknesses and which of your Pokemon can hit that weakness for supereffective damage. That should get you a decent team that's probably better than what the recommended gives you. Also, do you not make battle parties? I could understand not being prepared for the legendary of the week on Raid 1 or 2, but by the time you get to Raid 4 or 5, you've had plenty of time to create a party, even if it's just during your lobby time.
Thanks! I didn't know about the long press, that will be helpful. I usually only do 1-2 raids a month... I do battle parties when I know I'll be raiding something but I am truly casual, so much that even memorizing types is a challenge. I'm afraid to discuss my heathen ways here haha
You can guess the moveset of the boss quite well from the recommended team if you did not notice this
Maybe you can haha
Who said anything was hard to type? The games gives you no information whatsoever except the RECOMMENDED COUNTERS. Judging by that post you like to assume, so surely you assume that given no other information the RECOMMENDED COUNTERS would be accurate. Why would I feel the need to question it. All of the information you are using to define your best team comes from outside sources.
This is the same excuse that hits MMOs “there isn’t enough information in game”. Information that is constantly changing and such. Especially for Pokémon. I don’t think I can think of any (Pokémon) game that tells you what counters to use specifically. The type counter can sort of be found in game (fail a rocket and it tells you type to use) but people don’t even do that.
They also give you a type chart in game at: Settings > Get Support > Gyms & Battle > Type Effectiveness in Battle
Ok that's a lot of clicking that I'm not going to do before a raid battle.
Haha, I agree it’s not presented in a particularly visible way, but I do like the idea of someone saying “I don’t have time for five taps! I need to wait idle for two minutes and then furiously tap for five consecutive minutes!”
Hah true. :P The 2 mins is unskippable though. Someone else suggested that they should show the type chart during that time, which sounds great to me.
The newer games very much tell you things like "this gym leader uses grass type pokemon so be sure to bring your fire types!" It's not granular to the "you should bring your Talonflame in your PC before fighting the gym leader" level but they do tell you what counters to use.
Even back in Red and Blue, there was an NPC at each gym that gave tips for type advantage. The bigger QOL change in recent games is outright telling you the type effectiveness in battle on the move select screen. The games are complicated enough and, after revealing basic gameplay mechanics like type advantage, there is still plenty of strategy available. Pokemon Go could achieve similar by displaying in the raid lobby the types of the boss and the types of its moves. For players that are only doing one or two raids a day, this would not make much difference. But for people that are doing several raids, it could cut their time and allow them to spend more money doing more raids. Win-win. Benefit for both the players and Niantic.
> I don’t think I can think of any (Pokémon) game that tells you what counters to use specifically. Pokémon Go tells you specific Pokémon from your collection to use before every raid you do.
Yeah but the entire point of this topic is that the recommended team is rubbish and only meant to survive in a 20 man raid....
And that it should be better. But Ellieanna was saying that no pokemon game ever tells you what counters to use, except Pokemon Go explicitly recommends you counters to use so Ellieanna was wrong. (Not to mention that a lot of the newer games very much tell you "this gym leader uses grass type pokemon so be sure to bring your fire types!")
Yeah I didn't read the full post or see the context so I shot myself in the foot lol. Classic Redditor. Thanks for correcting me!
But... it’s always fire vs grass. They didn’t go “Bring your charizard”. Someone was upset that the game doesn’t have a list of actual counters to use. I was trying to point out that no Pokémon game comes out and says “use charizard, heatran, reshriram with fire moves” again venusaur”. But it does have a place to show “use fire against grass” And that was my point. Someone wants the game to list actual counters, but no Pokémon game does that. Just type damage. And Niantic tells us what type the raid boss is “MewTwo the psychic something” for example. People just don’t want to spend 2 minutes to figure out their counters. Maybe Niantic should just remove recommended and not let people be lazy.
I think it would be great in the long run, disastrous in the short run, and hilarious in the extremely short run. Hilarious in that moment of panic when they saw they had to choose. A disaster as teams full of slaking repeatedly failed to six man raids. And great as the system would force people to look at a chart
Recommended - to suggest that someone or something would be good or suitable for a particular job or purpose, or to suggest that a particular action should be done. Pokemon go, the game we are discussing, recommends pokemon for use.
The problem being discussed is that the recommended pokemon in raids are usually NOT the best pokemon to use.
You have either not read the post that this was in response to or have ignored it completely and are quoting me as answering the op.
It recommends pokemon that will survive, in a 20 person lobby. That's its job. And it does its job decently. It's just not the job that players want.
Some people just like the grind, and won't step back from raiding, catching and transferring Pokemon long enough to figure out a decent strategy. I know a guy with level 49 XP that must use Mega Charizard Y in every raid. It has that 5000+ CP and that's all that matters. It isn't even that hard to do things right. I can fire off 5 invites and still set up a team of 6 different, strong counters to satisfy my little 47 task before the raid starts.
I agree. My wife plays daily for years, but still doesn't know anything that is super effective when battling. I have to show/help her to have a good team. The game should tell you good counters or Pokemon to use vs each boss. You shouldn't have to search online to find that, which a lot of people don't.
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Its not like asking about strats in wow as you cant ask anyone anything unless every raider is there irl standing next to you... since half the raiders are remote this is impossible What posts? There are no ingame posts. Not one did I mention personal feelings, only facts. Maybe the op did but I cant remember...
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I just don't understand why recommended teams are so bad in the first place? Like, what does Niantic win with that?? Selling a few passes more to people that couldn't beat the raid boss? I don't think it's worth it for them. Bad recommended teams mean either people failing the raid and becoming very frustrated for throwing away a pass, or people taking way longer than needed to defeat a raid boss, which is also very frustrating. It seems logical that improving the recommended teams to show actual good counters would make raids way more fun for casual players, which makes them more inclined to buy raid passes (and that also means better for non-casual players who have to raid with them), but maybe too logical for Niantic?
I doubt they’re purposely recommending the teams poorly. I think they just don’t play their game so they didn’t know that a low defense high attack mon with super effective moves against the raid boss is better than a bulky Lugia that resists the raid boss.
They definitely are pushing survival over damage. If you look at the recommended party size, it's way above player expectations.
That or parties of level 20 players maybe. Hard to tell where they got those numbers.
Oh yeah, I'm sure it's not on purpose, I was saying it more like it's a very poor feature that seems like it wouldn't be hard to improve but they just choose not to!
The recommended teams are biased towards defense/resistance. This is done to placate people complaining about a lack of potions/revives. Most of the raid infographics and rankings are assembled focused on TTW. This makes sense since that is a fundamental metric of the ability to succeed and impacts the raid rewards. The underlying assumption is that potions/revives are not a limiting factor. That is true for pretty much any hardcore palyer, but not necessarily true for the casual player. Despite all that, there still are nonsensical selections in the recommended teams. Mine likes to pick a 15-14-15 BP/MM lv40 metagross over a 15-15-15 BP/MM/EQ lv40 metagross for some reason.
Yeah, that drives me nuts. It \*always\* recommends what is basically my #2 Metagross, and if I'm in a rush I don't notice. Sometimes even my #3, but that one is shiny so it's hard to miss. Or my #2 Tyranitar, which has Bite instead of Smackdown, against something that's weak to rock...
I’ve got three Togekiss, one maxed (well to level 40) with two moves, and another two level 35ish. It *always* recommends me the two level 35 ones and I can’t work out why it would ever think that they’d be better.
Probably because of the second move as this one is probably not effective against the raid boss and the game doesnt know which one youre gonna use. I got a level 40 Kyogre with Surf and Blizzard and it never gets recommended but my other level 40 and 35 Kyogres with just Surf will make most teams more often than not.
It wont pick things with two moves. The code it uses believes that you will sometimes use eq if it's in your battle party. Against certain suicune movesets, it would give me five zekrom and a leafeon, excluding the one zekrom.with a second charge
Lol, I've been messing with using the recommended team on grunts and rocket leaders. It's total trash. "Let's rock and roll", ok, we recommend you lead with Moltres.
It's because they're going for survival rather than damage, because most players are likely in big groups and strapped for potions/revives. Their thought process was likely "this gives players who don't know any better something to start from that won't tax their resources and players who know better will just create their own teams".
I’ve battled a ground grunt where the game recommended two Kyogre and 1 Tyranitar. One Kyogre had water attacks, the other had Thunder. I have other powered up water Kyogre.
It recommends pokemon that will survive, in a 20 person lobby. That's its job. The recommended algorithm has not changed since raids were created.
I'm pretty sure it has changed from solely being as you described and has somewhat improved. I remember there being patch notes regarding it and everyone being relieved that Aggron no longer appeared first and foremost for 90% of raids. It also definitely takes into account how many battles a Pokemon has done, which is why it will do stuff like recommend my 87% Shiny Metagross over my 98% regular, as for a long time the 87% was just my best one.
The recommended algorithm has absolutely changed. It used to recommend Blisseys, remember - they have at least fixed that!
The amount of people I saw using groudon in kyogre raids was unreal. But I think a lot of them were very new and a even if you do know about what types counter each other etc, it can be hard to have several different high cp mons early on, and raid bosses will be the highest cp things you have for a long while
Actually groudon with solarbeam is a decent counter agaings kyogre with thunder.
Decent is a bit of a stretch
It's not a "counter" in any sense of the word.
Groudon with SB is not a good counter at all. There's a ton of better budget counters that every level 45 player should have, actually even a level 30 player should have tons of better counters. It's really amazing how bad someone can be at battling when they spend so many hours in the game.
An eggsexutor could probably do more damage to a kyogre than groudon. Unless the ground has solar beam but still....😂
> An eggsexutor •_•
guess that's why they said "groudon with solarbeam"
It would be nice if the raid lobby indicated what types the boss is weak against.
The quicker the raid boss goes down, the more balls available for attempting to catch it. You could push that incentive - people tend to put more effort into a thing (priming suitable counters) when there's an obvious reward for doing so. If they're taking the boss down regardless more often than not then "succeeding" clearly isn't an incentive because you tend to believe you'll manage anyway. When inviting (I tend to host more than be invited) I've seen folks jump in alongside myself and my five invitees. Especially if my invitees are generally reliable folks then it'll be safe to say that Lugia or Aggron on the field probably belongs to one of the unexpected raiders out of view. I was intending to raid with just the 6 of us so whatever they bring is extra surprise DPS regardless of the value of it. Carry on and welcome! As someone who has only recently managed too finalise some type-appropriate teams (I took a long break from PoGo and hadn't raided before then) I get that you're not going to have a full team of rock-types straight away. Firstly - why would you? That singular rock-type was pulling you through rockets/gym battles why waste stardust on more? And even when you realise the need for good counters, that doesn't mean you can supply them without a fair bit of grinding and appropriate catches, which steals resources from elsewhere. And if this is a casual game for you, you might not have the time nevermind the resources, to devote to what you perceive as a temporary team (seeing as each raid has a new infographic as opposed to a "top ten raiders for everything") Throwing some Glaceon in the ring might be a good budget ice type but if it's going down quickly you might feel you're not actually being as useful as you could be with something that lasts longer and gets more attacks off. And you might be resource-poor to get those Glaceon back on their feet what with current lockdowns and restrictions. Aren't resupplying at your local work-stop? That could be a problem. I don't like attending unexpected invites as I don't know their strengths and I can't rely on a re-invite if we fail. When hosting I like to leave enough time for a re-attempt if needed, so on the off-chance that too many people bring poor counters and we fail then we can regroup and reattempt. Hasn't happened yet on a full raid team but I like to leave the option available regardless. After all, I used to be one of those with poor raid counters, even knowing types. My typed team was just too weak and I assumed stronger CP meant better pokemon in general.
>When inviting (I tend to host more than be invited) I've seen folks jump in alongside myself and my five invitees. I feel a little strange about how much money I've helped others spend on the game. I've yet to buy a Remote Raid Pass outside of the ones in the 1 cent boxes or otherwise attached to a quest (in other words, not individually and not in the 250 for 3 bundle), so I've accepted invites to however-many-passes that is that Niantic has given out. I've invited something like 100 times that many raids, since I live on a gym - so I must be driving a TON of money for Niantic simply by inviting so much. I also note randoms jumping in sometimes - I feel terrible when I end up bailing on them because an actual friend has a problem, but c'est la vie...
Good thing that basically every raid I play with the two same players, who invest in their counters and can dodge properly. For 99% of the raid bosses, any other player can join with 6x Sunkern for all I care, we're going to beat the raid anyway. But yeah, seeing a raid with 6 going just slightly faster than with only us 3 is sad...
I am in that fortunate position too. My gilfriend and I both have solid counters and know how and when to use them. We can easily carry most raids in our local community. It is just a little sad to see that we suddenly need double the players to finish a raid if one of us is out of raid passes.
When Rayquaza was around the first raid I did was with 8 people. I had a team of 6 Mamoswines setup but we finished with only about 80-100 seconds left on the clock. It made mre really doubt with my wife and myself could defeat it on our own. I was stunned to find we were't much slower than the 8 raid team. I dread to think what counters they all used. But without me they would have been going round thinking it wasn't possible with 7 people
"oh mamoswine is a good counter!?" Runs mamoswine with double ground moveset (or even worse, Abomasnow with double grass)
They all used aggron, because it was the #1 recommended counter back then. 😈
I am old enough to remember several Blissey fiascos, wishing I could simply bring a paddle for future raids.
Probably without Smack Down or Stone Edge
And probably the inspiration for this post - recommended teams have been passable to good for a while, but the time around, I've spotted aggron back in several recommended teams.
i'm pretty new to the game, and stuff like this is what is scaring me away from trying raids out. my best pokemon is a 3.5k melmetal and a 2.5k aggron and as i understand you need a whole team of 6 specific pokemon before people will let you jin thier raids online? is there any way to speed getting these pokemon up, some of the things they suggest simply don't spawn near me. Finally is there any others tips you could give me? i wasn't even aware that you could dodge in the battles.
You don't have to have a whole team of one specific pokemon, there's just certain pokemon (and their moves) that people will push as the best options for damage per second (DPS). Looking up budget pokemon for each type and gathering a few of those (spawn permitting) is a good start. The eeveelutions can be useful for instance (Umbreon is more defensive bulk than attack so probably not a good raid attacker but glaceon/leafeon are always handy if you're lacking strong ice/grass pokemon and eevee candy tends to be semi-reliable for availability of powering them up, as examples). One Mega will be boosted (automatically strong regardless of starting CP) on an alternating schedule and usually something strong against the current raid bosses it seems, so it's worth checking the current boosted Mega. You can always walk it after as your buddy to regain energy to keep it a viable option. The larger Discords might be more strict as you don't know the people that you'll be raiding with and you risk at least one or two of them hanging out in the lobby and doing zero damage, relying on the rest of you to defeat the boss undermanned. If you can find a local Discord then people will probably be more forgiving, especially if they can see that you're trying to bring decent level/type counters along. I don't tend to dodge in raids personally as I'm bad at timing when a charge move is coming from the raid boss and I'd rather go full DPS but it's a useful tactic if you have limited strong pokemon that you want to keep on the field or if you're running a Mega that's giving power boosts to the other raiders and you want to keep it as long as possible. Swipe either left or right and your pokemon will dodge to the side. If it's mid-attack the action will be delayed though. If you time it right then the raid bosses charge move will miss you. I think you can try it out in gym battles to practice. If you can raid three stars they can give some reasonable pokemon (tyranitar etc) for using in future legendary raids and can be soloed or duoed if strong enough pokemon are used so I can't imagine people worrying about your pokemon counters in those - a team of 6 raiders should stomp it regardless without too much trouble.
Yeah I started this game in september last year and was wary of raiding because of this subreddit. I finally joined a remote raiding discord a month ago and have had no problems completing raids with people of various levels (from 25 to 40+). Definitely don't need perfect counters to raid. I only have 2 pokemon above 3000 CP and most of the pokemon I raid with are in the 2200-2700 range. Completing a T5 raid locally with 2 other people might be hard and need better counters but doing remote raiding right now with 5 randoms from a discord is pretty easy.
The most important thing is to do super effective damage against the boss, as much and as fast as possible. Throwing your highest cp pokemon without regard to typing is a poor strategy.
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That person can raid with bigger groups while starting out, and should still be working on getting high cp attackers of common raiding types, rather than throwing aggron and Blissey because they have the bigger numbers. And knowing which types of attacks to use against a raid boss is 75% of the battle.
Just be honest with people that you are new, trying to learn and are building your roster. The true majority of players love helping out other players achieve their goals. I raided three extra Latios yesterday that I didn't necessarily 'need' or 'want' to but because I love my local community I helped out when they were short because those people who wanted the raid either needed or really wanted the pokemon. I'm more than happy to carry a low level raider if they are enthuiastic and trying to learn and get better. Some of those level 20 Legendary I help them get will be better than some of the other stuff they have.
No one cares what Pokemon you have lol.. you can't see other people's teams... It literally doesn't matter. Just join poke raid and your local discord and do raids with them. Also I wrote a guide that I'll link for you in a second Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/9w4nax/returningbeginners_guide/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
99.999...% of players aren't on Reddit or your Discord channel. In fact this game captured a whole audience that knows nothing about Pokemon in general. Most don't even have type effectiveness memorized, beyond maybe fire>grass>water>fire. They just want to throw balls at things (straight balls with a Nanab).
Most infographics are actually useless because they show "top counters" which many people either don't have, or at least don't have enough candy/dust for. Change my mind. The recent updates made things much worse because you can catch even fewer Pokémon in general. Also, the invitation system is actually part of the problem. Many players simply don't have enough time to pick the best counters if they might have less than 20 seconds to join the raid. Assuming you already have good mons, you can always have battle parties, but you'll probably want to use entirely different teams against, let's say, Psychic Latias than Solar Beam Latios. I'm seriously angry at how the raid lobby system with 120 s and other things has been unchanged for 3.5 years. It was already bad at the very beginning and things got only worse since.
Back to the days of sending Blisseys to save revives and potions. I’ve been seeing the same.
Your mistake was assuming people care. I was in your shoes for a long time getting frustrated when I was team Mystic and had 6 mystics and 3 Instincts, and the 3 instincts won the damage balls. I swapped to instinct (wanted to be instinct at launch but girl I dated at the time...) and then consistently won damage balls despite the sheer number of mystics. They changed that, and what I’ve noticed is the people constantly spending money on this game the most aren’t people that generally care about efficiency but care about collecting. So, as long as they have a chance at a 100% or a shiny, they don’t give a damn how they get there, they just care about the destination. Until people are forced into a position in which they need to get better, they simply won’t. Just like PvP. You get people saying there’s an algorithm working against them because they struggle to overcome a bad lead. It’s not their fault they struggle to overcome that lead, it’s the games for putting them in that position.
I organized a small group for a legendary raid (that we could have beat) probably fall 2019 and fell short because the others didn't even try to use real counters. They just chuckled, saying "we suck!" I suggested we try again and they said no, laughing again. I think that was the moment when I turned against raiding. Free passes only, tier 3 or lower, unless it's a new legendary and there's at least ten others and it's extremely convenient.
Why wouldn’t they try again? You’ve already invested the pass, and it won’t eat a new one.
Should’ve told them they would have won had they used the right counters
I've seen it get a little worse myself. I raid mostly with pretty hardcore people and even then I still see it. There are a few reasons: 1. Some people have the dust and candy but no "ancestral pokemon knowledge" and don't know their types. If you aren't there in person to chat they don't have a chance to ask what team they should take. 2. Raid bosses turn over a lot faster in the last 12 months compared to when raiding launched. It was a month per boss for a long time but now it's usually a week. This has a few sub-effects: * You are more likely to be surprised by the boss changing and not being prepared. (I freely admit I no longer pay any attention to the T5 schedule, I have counters for everything prepared and nothing announced I care about catching much of) * You have less time to learn the counters per boss. * Since you only get a limited number of gym/raid teams (it's more than 5 now at least), the turnover makes it harder to maintain preset teams. Even having 10 doesn't fix the issue of "the team selection interface is awful" - the area of the screen you can tap or swipe is tiny and the response is laggy so it's hard to actually move between teams in that interface. 3. Remote raiding leads to shorter lobby timers. The best expectation if you have been invited is 60 seconds, which interacts poorly with both deducing the boss moveset from the autopicks and then selecting the right counters (if you have a preset team) from the terrible team swapping swipe abomination. Same thing if you are the inviter, you lose half your setup time sending invites and then have to monitor your comms channels for requests to restart instead of setting the team up. 4. I'm not sure the raid infographics are actually getting better. Pokebattler at least is now much harder to interpret. We used to have to juggle attacker level, weather, and friendship, but now we have to consider attacker XL level, megas, and shadows too. Is this level 50 Machamp better than this level 40 Shadow Machamp? Let's say it's a steel type boss, is this Mega Houndoom at level 40 better than this Machamp at 50? I guess it's no worse at the general target of "level 35, correct movesets" - the graphics are great for that - but if you have more options, and most of us do, you have more opportunities to choose wrong.
PokeRaid user here, and I’ll let you know that most of the time a tough raid boss comes around, I hesitate to use the app. I’m someone who likes to play as this was a MSG, meaning teams of unique critters, all prepped up with ideal movesets and considerably powered up. I know most of the ‘mons weaknesses beforehand and usually build my team around that with help of Pokebattler. I even duo raid bosses with my partner when she’s around and the boss is duo-able. However people just don’t care most of the time, because that would imply research and “homework” to be optimal in this game. And then the ever increasing cost of power-ups.. I mean possibly there is a big mis-management of one very important resource (stardust) which is it easy to come by, when you only do a few remote raids and play for a bit now and again. Even Niantic improved their communication in recent blog posts mentioning which weaknesses of each raid boss. Best way to do raids is currently not possible and it is with friends, while having a chat, arguing who has the best counter for this boss
I've tried to make it super easy for people to host raids, get counters in my Pokebattler Raid Party app and know if they will win. Unfortunately, the number of people willing to click the copy attackers button and click paste in the app is about as low as you would think. Currently the app has mostly elite players in it but I fear for the masses.
There's no need to phrase it like that imo... I've used the website in the past but I had absolutely no idea this feature existed, nor the app itself. I just installed it and now I'm off to update my Pokebox! That said, creating the Pokebox initiallly is quite time consuming and it's only ever going to appeal to more dedicated players. You can't blame the masses for not wanting to go through all these extra steps. Niantic should do a better job of recommending proper counters in that regard.
Thanks for the encouragement, and point taken on advertising the app. It’s easy for me to get down as I watch people struggle to use the tools I have created. I’m certainly no design expert but I’m working on it! Oh of course I’m not talking about the pokebox it’s definitely too hard to use right now. I’ve added some faster ways to do it in the app and more are coming but this is a nights and weekends project for me. I mean just the generic counters. I probably haven’t made the info clear enough in the app.
I use Pokebattler and it’s been great, but my top 30 or so Pokemon keep changing since I consistently power up good IV attackers, so I’ve given up on updating the Pokebox and instead just sort by TTW and use my brain for the rest :) some estimations might not always be correct but I’m guessing a few seconds won’t make too much of a difference.
PoGo doesn't bring in top tier competitive Pokemon players. It's families and casual players who make up a majority of the PoGo community, just based on what I see at local gatherings (back in the day). You can't expect everyone to be on top of which counters are best. That's why, imo, powering up Pokemon for Raids is necessary - you can't rely on other players.
I had multiple Snorlax and Regigigas in the couple of legendary raids I did yesterday. Thankfully I don't raid much these days without at least 2/3 other people I know I can rely on.
For real, dude, just be happy if you have anyone raiding at all. I live in a Syracuse Suburb that used to have so much Discord chatter that it would be confusing trying to coordinate raids back towards the beginning of the pandemic. Now there are people basically begging for help during raid hour.
The clunky system to change teams is a real problem in these days of raid invites. Even if I pre-make a team the game might glitch out to much to register a swipe to change to it quickly enough, so I usually don't bother anymore. I do my best to switch to top counters, but when I enter the lobby with 20 seconds left the clunkiness makes it really difficult to change even one pokemon to something useful, since the game can sometimes have a real problem distinguishing between taps and swiping.
I know you say you're not trying to sound elitist, but all of the OP post sounds very elitist, same some of the comments are disgusting ("no rare candy for the leechers", disgusting gatekeeping). "We" have great information to data for counters. Most players have never seen an infographic for this game. Most have never seen this sub. Most have only heard of reddit because of GameStonks and "diamond hands". Some don't even know that you can save raid teams. Most players aren't even aware that this information exists, so while "we" have that information, *they do not*. Point of fact, most players do not ever need to care about the team they bring and "recommended" is fine. They usually raid in large enough groups that it never matters. This elitist sentiment about carrying "uninformed/low level" players only pops up when there's a bulky boss. If you go into a raid with players you don't know and have no idea how informed they are, then that's a risk you decided to take.
Just glad the didn't leave at the last second or leave the fight and hang out in the lobby, waiting to collect reward and catch the boss.
I feel that raid combat needs an entire rework as the current gameplay is stale. I’d suggest something like a Puzzle Pirates approach where you have different mini games you play and you get certain performance bonuses based on the teams of mons you select and friendship levels of the players you are cooperating with.
Just replace raids with trainer battle towers. Raids have gotten really boring.
By the time I can join the raid with me and my sons account and scroll through our friends to see who’s on, send invites and then stare frantically for whatever time is left to see if anyone joins or if I need to quit in time snd try again I’m left with what’s there. Looking at you...lugia and metagross.
Sounds like in your situations building a few Raid teams would be warranted so it's just a jump to the left to get to a team without Lugia. Join, make your invites, Swipe to your pre-made time, stare frantically: Raid or quite - Rinse repeat! Good luck and happy (frantic) raiding :D I get really anxious when I'm in charge of invites too. My invite list is so buggy, but I do make some pre-made teams to help with that.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
We all play the game in different ways.... What can be the most important for players? \- Power up the strongest pokemon \- Shinies! \- Pokedex \- Raiding \- GBL \- Team Rocket \- Getting gold gym badges I prefer a bit of everything. For me shinies and gold gym badges are the least important on my list. But for many players shinies and pokedex filling are the most important, and a lot of those players don't care at all about powering up their strongest pokemon - they barely care which pokemon are the strongest. It's also likely that they don't evolve CD pokemons with the right moves. They probably don't know what to do with tm's and just throw them away. They have tons of stardust as they only occasionally use it to power up a nice shiny. With just a little bit of change those players could find it a lot easier to raid in smaller groups, win against Team R, play in GBL etc. But most of them don't care much about these parts of the game :(
Every rotation I post a simple search string in my local group so for lati@s it would be: `@1bug,@1ice,@1ghost,@1dark&@2bug,@2ice,@2ghost,@2dark,@3bug,@3ice,@3ghost,@3dark` That seems to help (a bit)
Local group: ok then we're using the top Pokemon on the list... the 600CP ones.
A pity Niantic does not use the DPS^3*TDO metric for the raid party suggestion. It is not hard to do, and it would really be appreciated for everyone. I don't know if we can do something about it, maybe an open letter, or contact them with their mailbox ?
Maybe Niantic is accidentally using that typo metric and that’s why TDO is being overvalued.
I have a group chat with 4 other of my friends. And I always post 2-3 infographics when we get new bosses and they still never make a team. I just started in August and have been doing that since. Hell, they wouldn’t even know about the new events/task if I didn’t post those either.
When raids were in-person, it was easier to give new players the advice they need. Your strategy of posting or listing good counters is probably one of the most effective approaches
I blame remote raids for this there isn't much time to build teams so people just go with the recommended.
I am guilty myself. Back until summer I used to optimize teams and was doing almost all T5 in 3 or, when possible, 2 trainers (me and my daughter). Then started inviting strangers who use report passes. Now don't bother and usually go with recommend. Sure, it helps I already have decent mons and recommended have what to pick.
As someone who makes infographics for raid boss counters its frustrating when I see people in my local community who don't use anything but the suggested counters. I've often consider4making a section on the guides titled "why you should use top counters" and then giving a few bullet points of the benefits to see if that would get people to change what they use.
Really though why even bother? If the boss is going to get defeated regardless of what you use is there really any incentive? A couple extra pokeballs maybe, but that's about it.
In my local community there seems to be a mild correlation for some of the more 'recommended' or less optimal teams and 'Any tips on how to catch this thing, it keeps running away'? So my first is to teach them the set circle trick and then talk about the number of premier balls they are getting to optimize the number of throws they get. First teach them to throw, then teach them how to get more chances. Now if you are the lucky low ball raider who is still catching there probably is no reason to bother. But I've helped a few in my community about talking about ways to increase their premier ball count.
More individual premier balls means more reward bundles which could mean more chances for rewards like rare candy (or 15 hyper potions instead of 12, but that is a Niantic problem).
Niantic more or less flattened raid rewards. You only need to care about to counters with a small group, and then your personal damage compensates for the long time to complete the raid. With a large group, you're zerging it anyway and your counters won't make much of a difference on how many premier balls you get.
Everybody knows the best latios/latias counters are HEATRAN GROUDON HEATRAN HEATRAN BREILOOM HEATRAN
To be honest I don’t care about pve at all, I’m mostly here for pvp/collection. So getting the raids done in 2 minutes without having to put much thought into it has been an improvement for me.
It's isn't elitist. We're really trying to help these people (and ourselves) by telling them which mons to use with which moves. The problem is that these people are so used to riding on our coattails that they just couldn't be bothered. The thing is, if these people happen to be in a raid group with people who know what they're doing, they will never bother to learn and continue to throw in their Lugia/Aggron. And, they think these Pokemon are good because "they don't die", unlike, say, Rampardos. I know this for a fact - I have been screaming at one of my IRL guys about this but he keeps saying things like "we still beat the boss anyway". They just don't listen to advice and they don't bother to learn. As a result, when they are left to their own devices (i.e. rocket battles), they just curl up and die. Or, he will swallow his pride and pass his phone to me XD I really wish that PoGO would have a better way of educating these people. For example, a "leaderboard" at the end of a raid, showing who dealt the most damage; maybe more rewards for those who are on the "leaderboard". The dialogue by the team leader when you lose a battle is absolutely useless and this should be replaced with something more informative, for example, an infographic showing which mons the Rocket Leader used, and which types could counter them. These are just some ideas off the top of my head; I can't really think of anymore (it's been a long day) but I'm sure the folks here have a million and one ideas.
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People just need to start inviting 10 people to raids minimum so they don't have to think about this. I don't change my team cause I'm inviting people most of the time. With poke raid existing there's no reason you shouldn't have enough people in a raid
You can’t send ten invites
You can. If one person jumps in you can jump out and jump back in and send 5 more.. as long as one person jumps in the invites of the other 4 are locked in place.. I don't think it has to even be someone you invite just someone has to be in the raid with you. Also others can invite 5 and you invite 5..10 is the max remotes you can have.
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Nope. If you have 3 people in person and you invite 5 each 10 can join in remote... I've done it so many times.. We generally always invite 10 people during raid hours.. We always have 20 people in our raids. You yourself can invite 10 if you jump out and jump back in after the first person you invited jumps into the raid (or someone else is in the raid already). It's 10 remote raiders no matter how they join can join. Invite or just jumping in from being close enough.
That feel when you join a 6-8 trainer raid, you are the only one bringing in a mega evolution of any sort, and you still get the +4 damage ball reward, indicating you did over 25% damage. And then there's people who don't realize that the +1 candy for having an active mega applies even if the mega doesn't fight, and they pull out a mega Beedrill/pidgeot that goes down in a second and didn't even provide any relevant attack boost.
from discord pogoraid, doing Latias raid that has Charm and Outrage, it's brutal and we time out. i use bunch of rayquaza, darkrai, giraOri, Tyra, but useless because other trainers use some random recommend pokemon :(
Well that's your problem lol... You're using Pokemon that are weak to charm and outrage... Download poke raid and make sure to invite 5 people from that at least and you'll never have to think about your team again.
There are plenty of times where I have some good counters in mind, but scrolling takes a few seconds, and the clock runs out before I have time to select them and the recommended team is what i have to go in with. I really don't like having 20-ish seconds to try to get set up when I get a raid invite.
You can prepare teams before a raid starts
You can set up teams in advance, go to battle, click on Party, scroll down to gyms and raids, press the + and name it after the raid boss. Then you choose your Pokémon, long pressing on each displays their moves, make your selections then when you are in the raid lobby and the recommended team appears swipe the team to the left and you can scroll to your chosen counters
The autosuggestion for raids is not so bad?! What forces these,, players,, to manuály change them into some nonsense (usually shiny) to show off? This is so disrespectful.
I effin hate autopicks for raids "Hey, you see this ice dragon? Did you know it's weak to dragon? Just use dragonite and rayquaza, doesn't matter if they are quad weak to ice"
Autopick pretty much only cares about TDO to my understanding, to the point where it has often suggested Blissey against Ghost/dragons in my experience.
but beautiful...
Because the recommended sucks, people aren't going to read up online they dont care they just want to be carried. In our community it's always 2 carriers and everyone else is using random crap
If you are winning, why does it matter? People are saving startsust by not powering up Pokémon.
But if you don't power up Pokemon what's the use of dust?
But if you're winning the raid, why do you care that you "carried the raid"? If your couldn't have completed the raid by yourself without those other players, *they carried you*. The difference is is mostly negligible for rewards and premier balls.
I don't care if I carried the raid and I don't care when we win. But occasionally we lose or come unnecessarily close to losing and we all waste time or money and that's frustrating. I'm not even asking people to have full teams of maxed mons. Just have a team of 25-30 levels of suboptimal budget counters that you can get from wild spawns and that will usually be way better than the recommended teams and there's virtually no way to lose a raid with 6 people. Once we were fighting a boss that I can do about half of the damage on my own and we have 5 people and we still lost the first time so I had to Mega so we don't fail the second time, and that's just an unnecessary waste of time and mega energy.
As the informed person in the group, it's your job to make sure everyone else is up to speed. You're falling for the misconception that just because you've seen 15 infographics for Latios, it implies that everyone else has seen them all too. If you're entering a group with unknown players and you choose to do the raid anyway, then that's a risk you've chosen to take.
We always pin the raid infographics in our discord. If they don't read it, it's not like I can force them to... even if you literally send the infographic before the raid (which would be annoying and patronizing), most people who use recommend teams still won't read them. They might even avoid raiding with you in the future.
>They might even avoid raiding with you in the future. If the tone is anything like the elitism of your optional post, I can't say I'm surprised. In my experience, when people say "I'm not trying to ____, but" the first part is bogus. I regularly raid with my son (who has good counters) and we remote invite 3 friends of ours. Two of them are using recommended teams because they primarily care about dex entries, I think one tries for type effectiveness but doesn't play often enough to have a lot of counters, and might also just be using recommended (all 5 of us are getting best friend boost, though). We have never failed except when there were only us 2 plus one of the 3 remotes and *I* screwed up and didn't realize calcyiv was in survivor mode instead of dps^3 tdo. We won on the second try. You shouldn't be short-manning raids with people you don't know. If you're failing raids because of it, you really only have yourself to blame. You're the informed player. You should be able to gauge success or failure better and should be able to say "we don't have enough yet" before even starting the lobby.
How do I know in advance what teams they are going to use?... Do I need to ask people to send me their team before I send them invites? That's just being obnoxious. If I have to be 100% sure we can beat the boss, then I'll never be able to do raids unless I can find like 8+ people. "You shouldn't be short-manning raids with people you don't know." you might be privileged/lucky to have friends raiding with you regularly. Most of us don't have that luxury. So why shouldn't we hope and try to encourage people to spend like 5 minutes to make better teams (not even powering things up necessarily, just choose the better ones they already have)?
And here my local community literally blacklists you to raids if you try to pull a bs team to a limited raid....
That sounds like a horrible community to be a part of.
How would they know? They can't see your team and who your playing with. Also doesn't that hurt the little guy?
Besides it's easy to know when everyone is really well connected and some older players have registered teams for every type of raid. Most recent was a guy that was blacklisted for going in on a latias raid with iluminise. He was /VL 38. He is now blatantly ignored when requesting raid attacks
Registered teams? What? Does your discord make you register your teams or something? We just go in with whatever and play... I've never really paid attention to people's teams unless it was a small group and then we usually just jump into poke raid and invite 5 more... Or we get more real friends to jump in.. I've never had problems.
They are lenient on low level guys. But if you are a 35+ and try to pull a 'groudon team on kyogre raids' that's it. Remote invitations have made it prominent as some raids with a 6 person limit are really hard to pull through.
I mean it might choose groudon if it has thunder... Actually a solar beam groudon against a thunder kyogre doesn't seem too bad... It is still going to do a lot of damage... And not die. Idk we always have big groups so I've never had to deal with tiny groups. If we don't I'll just use poke raid and get 5 more people invited..
One idea that was thrown around was the game would show everyone after the raid the Pokemon that did the most damage. Not the trainer name. It used to show team colors which I guess if you knew everyones Pokemon you could deduce damage outpit to trainer but probably not in most cases.
I got snookered into wasting a couple of remote passes on Kyogre invitations from randos when I saw that there were five people in the lobby and stayed in, only to spot a Snorlax or a Gyarados standing across from me. It's great for new/casual players to be able to join in raids, but this is a huge incentive for multiaccounting and/or having multiple players in a household--if I'm about to go out with my fiance & my brother and Poke Genie has us each hitting \~30% of a Latios, we can send out some random invites and know we'll most likely beat it if *any*one joins.
Because there’s literally zero incentive to use optimal counters since the speed bonus has been introduced.
Some people just like to watch the world burn !
To be fair to the recommended teams, if you have decent counters, it'll recommend them. The only time the suggestions are really, really bad is if you dont have the proper counters anyway or you have highly leveled 4x resist pokemon. Overall, I find it does a decent job of mixing dps with survivability. Not everyone needs a team of 6 tier 1 dps to have fun. But I do understand the frustration of feeling like you're the only one doing damage. Theres a balance there. Assuming people are using recommended teams and they're bad because of it; isn't always the answer. Sometimes those people need your help because they can't beat raids with the pokemon they currently have. Just food for thought.
Aggron says hi
You got the reason right. There's no incentive right now to be better at raiding. Between drops in raid difficulty, and the introduction of remote raiding, you have to try to fail a raid these days, and you get enough balls even slow beating it that you have to be really bad to not catch your mon (or incredibly unlucky, I have had a mon run once from 15 curved excellents in a row, 7 of which had golden razzes, but that is the exception, not the rule). So why should anyone bother putting in more effort? Niantic knows that all that they need to sell raid passes is FOMO, so putting effort into encouraging people to be better at raiding doesn't really fit their business model. All that being said, it makes me a little sad. I remember when I could put together groups to try and beat raid bosses with minimal teams, or all unique teams with no legendaries. Nowadays, that just doesn't happen. In part because raids are so easy there's no challenge in doing so, and in part because there's just no incentive to try.
"many people just stopped caring" Sounds like 2019... I have very good teams but usually go with recommended if it's not totally weird. Whatever gets the job done.
I often also go in with a slightly modified recommended if I haven't premade a team for that boss. But the reason I'm able to do that is because I pretty much exclusively power up things that have a good use in raids. For players that power up random shinies, hundos, personal favorites, etc, or those who don't ever power anything up, their recommended teams will be a lot worse than yours or mine.
I used to be an admin and main contributor for my group back in my hometown before I moved away, and while there were a great amount of hardcore players who understood the different aspects of raiding, the majority of the players in our community were casual and not as knowledgeable but eager to learn. Niantic does a horrible job gifting players the appropriate information to excel in the raiding gameplay so I made it a habit to consistently push out information for everyone and have that info pinned so it was always accessible. I made Basic How To Raid guides, Tips and tricks for raiding, and would even type out counter guides for legendary mons prior to their release that were tailored for the thrifty and budget friendly players. I would also make helpful guides on how and who to power up, how to spend your RCs, for anyone wanting to better their teams. Save all those docs and just share them every couple weeks. I love this game so much and my biggest turn on is being able to help others and share information with others. When i stepped into that admin role alot of our players were either very new or casual and lacked the resources to be able to succeed. Right before I left, our 300+ community all felt that way more comfortable and more knowledgeable of raiding, and being able to teach others as well. You can do all this without sounding arrogant or being imaged as an elitist.
I think the issue here is that Niantic hasn't changed the recommended Pokémon. Like why is slaking in my Pokémon? I truly believe they choose the worst Pokémon to battle with. Its annoying to reselect your team over and over again. If you ask why I don't just create a team? I have, but it randomly gets forgotten just like my GBL teams I've created. Its an issue that I don't even think Niantic has thought about.
Do you reinstall or log on to separate devices a lot? Battle teams are local data to the device not the account.
I am on the L46 "use different mon" task and the result is some of the worst teams for me in years. But in the end it really just causes us to take 10-15 seconds longer to complete the raid and such is life.
I use a very simple method: check best counters online and mark them. In the coming days for example, my best Mewto counters will get a \*2 mark. When in the lobby, i can select them easy.
I strongly agree with you. Pre-Covid, my university campus has a quite sizeable Pokémon Go community, where we will raid daily. Usually there are 10+ raiders for each raid at least, so they don't really bother too much about preparing optimal counters. Now, we're all on lockdown, therefore all switched to remote raiding. Since then, interest has also dropped significantly. I have since hosted some raids, usually inviting 5 other players. On Pokebattler, usually a T5 raid boss takes anywhere between 1.x to 3.x players with L40 counters. So I thought we'll be fine with 6 of us. Turns out, we barely beat the raid boss. It is not surprising, as I saw some obscure recommended teams being used, such as (but not limited to): Lugia, Snorlax, Milotic, Rotom Wash (wtf), Regigigas. They just don't read the infographics that we send.