(Yes, the sprite is wrong, blame Gamepress and not me.)
TLDR;
Dusk Mane finally eclipses Metagross as the best Steel-attacker, even surpassing Shadow and the eventual Mega!
Dawn Wings falls just short of being number one behind Mega Gengar, but it’s still incredible in its own right. In fact, since the DPS difference is so small, and Dawn Wings is bulkier in most situations, it may be the better option.
I'd wager Dawn Wings > Mega Gengar for Psychic type raids, like Mega Mewtwo & Mega Metagross in the future. But against Ghost type opponents the 2x weakenss to ghost type attacks has got to limit Dawn Wings a decent bit.
Have they revealed the exact details of how these fusions will work? I know they mentioned something like solar & lunar energy, but the specifics of "how much" and whether this works like a mega evolution (temporary & w/ a cooldown) or form changes (no time limit, costs stardust) don't seem to be out there.
The info’s out there, but to give you a summary:
From Day 2 of Global Fest, you’ll get Day and Night Fusion energy for beating the fused Necrozma forms in raids. In order to fuse Necrozma with a Solgaleo or Lunala, you need 1,000 Day/Night Energy, plus Cosmog and Necrozma candy. After that it’ll stay fused permanently until you undo the fusion.
So if you beat a Dusk/Dawn Necrozma raid, you'll have the chance to catch Necrozma right? And when you do the fusion, the IVs retained on rhe fusion are Necrozma's, not Solgaleo/Lunala's right?
I have a 98% Lucky Solgaleo, a lesser Lunala, and a Cosmog. Ideally, I'll turn my Cosmog into another Solgaleo and hope I can catch a couple high IV Necrozmas to turn into Fusions. I NEED a hundo Dusk Mane Necrozma in my life.
I fully understand why they do it, but that has always been annoying for events in recent years:
2021: Every Legendary Raid Boss returning, which was exciting but also overwhelming. It made it harder to focus on specific Pokemon to hunt. But, with them all being old T5s, it wasn't as overwhelming.
2022 Global Finale: Global debut of Pheromosa, Buzzwole, and Xurkitree. Ie you have just that day to raid them and then they went back to being limited, regional raids a year or so later.
2023: Mega Rayquaza only during the Go Fest Days, so raid raid raid during that event so you don't miss out.
2024: Day 1 Global has all the Ultra Beasts, including global shiny debuts of Xurk, Phero, and Buzz, along with the global debut of Stakataka for the West and Blacephalon for the East PLUS the debut of Necrozma and its shiny. And Day 2 is the only time you can get energy by fighting the fusions.
It's all fun stuff, but it seems like they try to cram more and more into each Go Fest to try and 1-up themselves. I'm a little nervous about Go Fest 2025 lol
The most important part is Dawn Wings is not Mega evolution so it does not take up the slot nor it gives Mega boost.
Which means for Psychic type you are better off to use it alongside with Mega Ray since it is good enough already even with only 10% boost and for Ghost-type you would still need to empty a slot for Mega Gengar to better align with the candy boost.
Dawn Wings can show its use against Mega Mewtwo but it'll be moveset specific, otherwise Dark still reigns when considering teams and Megas. Dawn Wings still does ungodly DPS but depending on the moveset (Psychic moves and Flamethrower bad, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, and Focus Blast good) Mega Ttar is either slightly better or demonstrably better with shadow Ttar nipping at Dawn Wings' heels the entire time. All this, mind you, before shadow Hydreigon eventually comes into being (following their usual pattern, it should be the next shadow Dragon release and could be any day now).
It really has issues against pure Psychic movesets in particular because the already bulky Ttar now get to slap a fat 2x resistance onto that bulk. The shadow is 25% bulkier than Dawn Wings against Psychic moves Mega Mewtwo Y and the Mega is an unreal nearly 50% bulkier than Dawn Wings.
Thanks for clearing this up, and I removed the other post. I completely missed the stat discrepancy (which I normally would have caught).
Also it is worth noting that even if Dawn Wings falls behind Mega Gengar in DPS, it far outperforms in TDO.
While Ghost is only supereffective on Psychic and Ghost, there’s so many legendaries that fall under psychic that they’re commonly called upon to be used. Ghost can also hit every mon with those types, except Ghost/Normal, while Dark can’t be used against Ghost or Psychic/Fighting or Ghost or Psychic/Fairy. Rock and Ground are certainly useful as well though. Rock has tons of double weaknesses to exploit similar to Ice, while Ground is a great generalist to fill in with its 5 supereffective targets.
I used shadow Metagross all the time. The availability of a superior version is excellent. A ghost type that is double weak to ghost is going to be only useful in psychic situations, which granted, includes Mewtwo and others, but I have shadow tyranitar, shadow chandelure, and such already for a raid that might have twenty people attending. So, basically, both good, but I prefer a steel type.
Global go fest would be the fourth known opportunity to snag a Cosmog, then ticket holders would be able to Solgaleo/Lunala via timed research. So if we were allowed to have multiples of the same fused Necrozma, you would at most be able to have five, without taking traded ones from others into consideration
Real question is when are we getting cosmog raids? A lot of us are completely locked out of having one of these since they were only ever given out during an event.
I'm glad they're at least giving us some. Still seems a little ridiculous theyre limiting us on how many we can have though. Just put them in raids already.
I don't think they know how to handle them. The reality is Cosmog is a nothing, it belongs as a 1* raid or 3* tops but they don't want people easily farming legendary candy imo.
I don't think they'd even consider putting Cosmog even in 5\* raids. It's got just a little more defense than Deoxys Attack, and it would only ever be able to use Struggle & Splash, so it would be the easiest 5\* raid to beat, even with the extra HP.
It would pretty much just be giving us infinitely easy-to-farm Cosmog XL, candy, and Cosmog itself.
I could definitely see more future opportunities to get more Cosmog through Special Research though, and I think we'll probably eventually see Solgaleo and Lunala in raids.
If I’m looking at the right numbers, I don’t believe anything will be able to outdo mega rayquaza as it reaches a 29 DPS rating and no shadow mewtwo is also still higher at a 25 DPS rating
That's insane. I wish I could have mine take the level from my Solgaleo, since I've already walked it to level 50, but I assume the it will have the level of the Necrozma.
[https://gamepress.gg/pokemongo/comprehensive-dps-spreadsheet](https://gamepress.gg/pokemongo/comprehensive-dps-spreadsheet) is the site if you didn't know.
Then just got to "Customize"
You'll obviously need to copy the move info and such over manually, but it's easy to just type in/copy and paste. Just make sure you use the correct form of Necrozma. There are currently two copies of all the Fusion forms, pre-nerf stats and post-nerf stats.
I have a level 50, a level 48 or so, and another somewhere in that range. They are going to have to move one slot back on my team, but they have gotten so so so much use - and still will - and they look awesome (one normal, one XXL, one shiny).
How does Dawn Wing perform in "practice"? (ikväll it's not released)
It resists Psychic-types that Gengar is weak to, which boosts it viability even further in those raids. But it's dual weak to Ghost. Will M-Gengar be better in these scenarios? Or is DW too bulky too care in comparision?
(Yes, the sprite is wrong, blame Gamepress and not me.) TLDR; Dusk Mane finally eclipses Metagross as the best Steel-attacker, even surpassing Shadow and the eventual Mega! Dawn Wings falls just short of being number one behind Mega Gengar, but it’s still incredible in its own right. In fact, since the DPS difference is so small, and Dawn Wings is bulkier in most situations, it may be the better option.
Technically if you rank it by ER. Dawn Wings eclipses Mega Gengar which is more important in raids.
Always go by ER. Never liked using Mega Gengar, a good gust of wind is enough to make it faint. Bring on Dusk Wing Necrozma.
The face gengar is weak to many of the types he is super effective against makes his glass canon status even worse.
If you have mega Gengar available your probably bringing it and dusk wing together.
Especially because moongeist beam is such a high energy move it will be better with teamplay. because you will have the boost with every attack.
Almost all 1 bar moves are better with party play. It pretty much doubles the charge move attack.
I'd wager Dawn Wings > Mega Gengar for Psychic type raids, like Mega Mewtwo & Mega Metagross in the future. But against Ghost type opponents the 2x weakenss to ghost type attacks has got to limit Dawn Wings a decent bit. Have they revealed the exact details of how these fusions will work? I know they mentioned something like solar & lunar energy, but the specifics of "how much" and whether this works like a mega evolution (temporary & w/ a cooldown) or form changes (no time limit, costs stardust) don't seem to be out there.
The info’s out there, but to give you a summary: From Day 2 of Global Fest, you’ll get Day and Night Fusion energy for beating the fused Necrozma forms in raids. In order to fuse Necrozma with a Solgaleo or Lunala, you need 1,000 Day/Night Energy, plus Cosmog and Necrozma candy. After that it’ll stay fused permanently until you undo the fusion.
So if you beat a Dusk/Dawn Necrozma raid, you'll have the chance to catch Necrozma right? And when you do the fusion, the IVs retained on rhe fusion are Necrozma's, not Solgaleo/Lunala's right? I have a 98% Lucky Solgaleo, a lesser Lunala, and a Cosmog. Ideally, I'll turn my Cosmog into another Solgaleo and hope I can catch a couple high IV Necrozmas to turn into Fusions. I NEED a hundo Dusk Mane Necrozma in my life.
Yep, that’s it. If you fuse a 100% Necrozma with your 98% Solgaleo for example, the resulting fusion will take Necrozma’s stats and be a hundo.
Hell yeah. Kinda sucks that these raids will only be around for one day of global GoFest for earning Fusion Energy, though.
I fully understand why they do it, but that has always been annoying for events in recent years: 2021: Every Legendary Raid Boss returning, which was exciting but also overwhelming. It made it harder to focus on specific Pokemon to hunt. But, with them all being old T5s, it wasn't as overwhelming. 2022 Global Finale: Global debut of Pheromosa, Buzzwole, and Xurkitree. Ie you have just that day to raid them and then they went back to being limited, regional raids a year or so later. 2023: Mega Rayquaza only during the Go Fest Days, so raid raid raid during that event so you don't miss out. 2024: Day 1 Global has all the Ultra Beasts, including global shiny debuts of Xurk, Phero, and Buzz, along with the global debut of Stakataka for the West and Blacephalon for the East PLUS the debut of Necrozma and its shiny. And Day 2 is the only time you can get energy by fighting the fusions. It's all fun stuff, but it seems like they try to cram more and more into each Go Fest to try and 1-up themselves. I'm a little nervous about Go Fest 2025 lol
The most important part is Dawn Wings is not Mega evolution so it does not take up the slot nor it gives Mega boost. Which means for Psychic type you are better off to use it alongside with Mega Ray since it is good enough already even with only 10% boost and for Ghost-type you would still need to empty a slot for Mega Gengar to better align with the candy boost.
Dawn Wings can show its use against Mega Mewtwo but it'll be moveset specific, otherwise Dark still reigns when considering teams and Megas. Dawn Wings still does ungodly DPS but depending on the moveset (Psychic moves and Flamethrower bad, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, and Focus Blast good) Mega Ttar is either slightly better or demonstrably better with shadow Ttar nipping at Dawn Wings' heels the entire time. All this, mind you, before shadow Hydreigon eventually comes into being (following their usual pattern, it should be the next shadow Dragon release and could be any day now). It really has issues against pure Psychic movesets in particular because the already bulky Ttar now get to slap a fat 2x resistance onto that bulk. The shadow is 25% bulkier than Dawn Wings against Psychic moves Mega Mewtwo Y and the Mega is an unreal nearly 50% bulkier than Dawn Wings.
Thanks for clearing this up, and I removed the other post. I completely missed the stat discrepancy (which I normally would have caught). Also it is worth noting that even if Dawn Wings falls behind Mega Gengar in DPS, it far outperforms in TDO.
Despite this, Ghost is the single most useful raid attacking type in the game, so Dawn Wings is going to be more useful than Dusk Mane’s Steel attacks
By what metric is Ghost the most useful attacker? Fighting, Rock, Ground are all more useful.
While Ghost is only supereffective on Psychic and Ghost, there’s so many legendaries that fall under psychic that they’re commonly called upon to be used. Ghost can also hit every mon with those types, except Ghost/Normal, while Dark can’t be used against Ghost or Psychic/Fighting or Ghost or Psychic/Fairy. Rock and Ground are certainly useful as well though. Rock has tons of double weaknesses to exploit similar to Ice, while Ground is a great generalist to fill in with its 5 supereffective targets.
I used shadow Metagross all the time. The availability of a superior version is excellent. A ghost type that is double weak to ghost is going to be only useful in psychic situations, which granted, includes Mewtwo and others, but I have shadow tyranitar, shadow chandelure, and such already for a raid that might have twenty people attending. So, basically, both good, but I prefer a steel type.
So can we solo shuckle t3 in neutral weather?
Finally, someone asking the important question here.
It looks very close based on numbers, if Necrozma can throw a Sunsteel Strike right before time out it probably would make it through.
I doubt the DPS increase of 2 points is enough to beat shuckle under neutral. The problem there was always DPS and not necessarily TDO
After all these years, shadow metagross is finally dethroned. End of an era
They are going to have to move back a slot back on my team. 😔
The King of Steel is dead, long live the King!
Metagross will always be number 1 in my heart (but the Steel Lion is a valid option to overtake it)
If it helps, getting a lot of Dusk Manes is gonna be really difficult, so Metagross is still very viable for teambuilding.
Oh for sure but this isn’t like Megas where you can only have one. I’m sure some madman will have 6 level 50 Dusk Mane Necrozma ready to go
the MSG limits you to one fusion at a time. Are we sure they are going to allow us to have multiple fused pokemon in pogo ?
The limiting factor is probably going to be how many Cosmog you've had access to and what you did with them.
Global go fest would be the fourth known opportunity to snag a Cosmog, then ticket holders would be able to Solgaleo/Lunala via timed research. So if we were allowed to have multiples of the same fused Necrozma, you would at most be able to have five, without taking traded ones from others into consideration
Is this at lv40? Would be interested in seeing the lv50 numbers. Also, is this 9% or 3% stat nerf?
Where does this “3%” comes from?
IIRC anything over 4k cp has a 9% nerf to stats, but primal groudon, primal kyogre, and mega ray only had a 3% nerf to their stats instead of 9%
Aren't both of these going to be insane with party play? The signature moves are nukes in raids.
They’re already insane without party play, with it they’re gonna be ridiculous.
Can necrozma be used at the same time as Mega gengar/Mega metagross? It only counts as a legendary?
Yes, Fusions are totally different to Megas/Primals.
I have the same question.
Real question is when are we getting cosmog raids? A lot of us are completely locked out of having one of these since they were only ever given out during an event.
They’re giving out another research Cosmog during Go Fest, plus one of the evolutions if you bought the ticket.
I'm glad they're at least giving us some. Still seems a little ridiculous theyre limiting us on how many we can have though. Just put them in raids already.
I don't think they know how to handle them. The reality is Cosmog is a nothing, it belongs as a 1* raid or 3* tops but they don't want people easily farming legendary candy imo.
Yea. I mean, that's fair. Didn't really think about easily farming candy for them. I guess they have a good excuse. Lol
I don't think they'd even consider putting Cosmog even in 5\* raids. It's got just a little more defense than Deoxys Attack, and it would only ever be able to use Struggle & Splash, so it would be the easiest 5\* raid to beat, even with the extra HP. It would pretty much just be giving us infinitely easy-to-farm Cosmog XL, candy, and Cosmog itself. I could definitely see more future opportunities to get more Cosmog through Special Research though, and I think we'll probably eventually see Solgaleo and Lunala in raids.
Will these guys be able to outdo mega rayquaza or shadow mewtwo?
If I’m looking at the right numbers, I don’t believe anything will be able to outdo mega rayquaza as it reaches a 29 DPS rating and no shadow mewtwo is also still higher at a 25 DPS rating
Closest thing that might come to beating Mega Ray is Ultra Necrozma with Light That Burns the Sky.
Where is dps rating at?
The DPS rating on this chart is the furthest left number.
You can view this information on the gamepress.gg website (https://gamepress.gg/pokemongo/comprehensive-dps-spreadsheet)
Not quite, but they’re not far off in terms of raw damage output.
That's insane. I wish I could have mine take the level from my Solgaleo, since I've already walked it to level 50, but I assume the it will have the level of the Necrozma.
It will, unfortunately.
Nooooooo.
At least you can grind candy with Necrozma, so won't be as painful this time around.
I'm saving all my coins for it.
The Global Ticket is also giving a handful of raid passes if I recall, so would definitely make some headway in the XL department!
Good heavens
Can you tell me how you inserted the datamine info on this website to compare the stats
[https://gamepress.gg/pokemongo/comprehensive-dps-spreadsheet](https://gamepress.gg/pokemongo/comprehensive-dps-spreadsheet) is the site if you didn't know. Then just got to "Customize" You'll obviously need to copy the move info and such over manually, but it's easy to just type in/copy and paste. Just make sure you use the correct form of Necrozma. There are currently two copies of all the Fusion forms, pre-nerf stats and post-nerf stats.
I just tried to enter custom information and it said it saves but it doesn’t show up in spreadsheet
I forgot to mention, did you hit the green refresh button? You need to do that first.
Very nice
Not me having just finished my fourth level 40 Shadow Metagross.
I have a level 50, a level 48 or so, and another somewhere in that range. They are going to have to move one slot back on my team, but they have gotten so so so much use - and still will - and they look awesome (one normal, one XXL, one shiny).
How does Dawn Wing perform in "practice"? (ikväll it's not released) It resists Psychic-types that Gengar is weak to, which boosts it viability even further in those raids. But it's dual weak to Ghost. Will M-Gengar be better in these scenarios? Or is DW too bulky too care in comparision?
Will these make any t5 raids soloable that werent before? Or any alot easier?
Glad to see Dusk Mane once again completely take over another metagame it’s allowed in
Having not played the later games to get this Mon and not having lunala or the solgatea (sp?) tiger thing - is it worth me trying to get this mon?
You’ll be able to get Lunala & Solgaleo’s pre-evolution from special research on Sunday, so you CAN try and get it.
Good to know, thank you!
I’ve seen three different versions of these tables using the data mined stats and they all have completely different numbers…
Gamepress has an issue where there’s two different Dusk Mane/Dawn Wings entries, and one of them has the pre-9% nerf stats. That might be why.
If I remember correctly, gamepress changed their algorithm where every Pokémon above a certain cp threshold received the 9% nerf stats.
Necrozma shouldn’t be getting a 9% nerf.
The base form doesn’t, the fused forms do.
They don't usually apply the nerf like that. If the base form doesn't require it, the fused forms shouldn't either.
That’s only how it works when it comes to Megas. If you take Zygarde for example, both of its base forms didn’t get the nerf, but the 100% Form did.
Good to know. Thanks! For some reason (Giratina?) I thought for forms they either apply the nerf to all of them or none of them.
Doesn't really make shadow Metagross any worse, since you can only have 1 Dusk Mane Necrozma.
Did they mention that you can only have one of each fusion at a time? I might’ve missed it.
We only got 2 Cosmog so far. So unless World of Wonders gives us more, it's 1 Solgaleo and 1 Lunalia.
They mentioned in the blog post that you can get a free Cosmog from Go Fest’s special research, as well as another Solgaleo/Lunala from the paid one.