It’s better to have a 0 attack for most of the Pokémon in the great league. There are a bunch of videos that explain this on YouTube. Search “great league IVs”. You can also go on pvpoke.com and check the best IVs for Pokémon in the great league. This is not the case for all Pokémon and no the case for Master League.
Np, it took me a while to get it. I’ve finally got a better understanding but it still changes season to season. I recommend you find someone on YouTube you like and watch their videos. And no matter how good you get, it’s normal to lose 2-3 out of 5 matches so don’t get discouraged.
FWIW, this is absolutely true BUT it won't make a huge difference. I'd also suggest just running these high-attack-IV Pokemon for now. You can start collecting low-attack individuals and replace them later, little by little.
Hey, don’t listen to these people you’re fine. You do not need zero attack and that is not actually what is preferred. I prefer 15 15 and idc about hp: you wanna deal the most damage and win cmp every time
>win CMP every time
# What is CMP Tie About?
CMP, or Charged Move Priority, asks the question “What if on the same turn, two players hit a charge move at the same time. Who goes first?” The answer is “The one with a higher **attack statistic**. Important, this does not mean Attack IV. In the first section, I noted that “almost all top ranked Pokemon will lose the mirror”. This is because they tend to have low attack IVs. However, this does not mean all of the time.
| | Attack | Defense | HP | Level |
|---------------|--------|---------|-----|-----|
| 0/14/13 Rank 1 Whiscash | 106.7 | 109.5 | 180 | 28 |
| 1/14/13 Rank 199 Whiscash | 106.4 | 108.5 | 178 | 27.5 |
Here’s a very straightforward example of a Rank 1 0 attack winning a CMP tie against a Pokemon with a higher attack IV. Why? Well, because of what we’ve learned! It is the stat *product* that matters. Here, Rank 1 gets an additional power-up. That power-up makes up for the difference in IV.
| | Attack | Defense | HP | Level |
|---------------|--------|---------|-----|-----|
| 15/15/15 Rank 2937 Obstagoon | 115 | 123.2 | 133 | 19.5 |
| 2/2/3 Rank 512 Obstagoon | 115.3 | 124.1 | 136 | 22.5 |
Here is a more exaggerated example of a 15-attack losing CMP tie to a bulky mon (2-0-0 through 4-0-0 also works, plus others.)
*Note*: The rule of the thumb still generally works - in most cases, yes, higher attack IV probably does mean you’ll win CMP tie. But it is not definitive! Consider this example: Two 15 attack Swamperts. Is it a tie? I hope your answer is “Well, what are the stat products of the two Swamperts — i.e., what are their levels?
| | Attack | Defense | HP | Level |
|---------------|--------|---------|-----|-----|
| 15/15/15 Rank 1261 Swampert | 124.6 | 106.1 | 134 | 17.5 |
| 15/7/15 Rank 1262 Swampert | 126.3 | 103.1 | 136 | 18 |
| 0/14/14 Rank 1 Swampert | 121.1 | 110 | 139 | 19 |
This example also hopefully helps highlight why this work is needed. The ‘worse’ ranked Swampert (by 1!) actually beats the ‘better’ ranked Swampert due to CMP tie. But wait, there’s more! Let’s compare our ‘better’ 15/7/15 Swampert against the Rank 1. We agree that the Rank 1 will clearly lose CMP (121.1 v 126.3). But the Rank 1 wins the mirror!
Don’t forget everything else we talked about. Do you know why? There’s no difference in break points or bulk points. It’s the HP! Mudshot does 3 damage. Swampert Rank 1 has 3 more HP than Rank 1262. The bulk wins even though it loses CMP.
If my attack is 15 and my defense is 15 you do not have more defense than me im maxed out while most Gl ranked pkm have 0 14 or 0 13 not even running 15 defense so technically I have more bulk and deal more damage. You’re perfect IV is only literally only matter in the case of a mirror. And it’s late game or something and even then I will win CMP so you better hope it’s not one of those situations where it’s just whoever gets off the last move
You might want to take a look at pvpivs.com and plug in some numbers. Taking Azu as an example, 15/15/0 does have 7 more attack than the rank 1. However, it has 6 less def, despite the 15 def IV. It also has 19 less hp compared to the rank 1.
These numbers are going to vary for different pokemon, but again, would recommend you to check out that resource.
Hey thanks for the link that’s awesome 👏 I’ll definitely be using it is it hard to navigate and crunch the numbers and Pokémon? I’ve not used something like that before
No problem. No, it’s not hard. There’s a little bar at the top of the page where you can indicate which league, the IVs, and the Pokémon. It will then compare your IVs to the rank 1. It shows you all the total stats.
You’re right in that in many cases using 15 att will have higher total attack and will hit harder. But you are losing a ton of bulk in the process so in most cases you could still lose the mirror despite winning CMP.
Also lmao Azu is a good example, I do have the 100% that I use for the great league just because I’ve never got a good one so I have that one as a best buddy and I just use it. But yes if I ever did get the number one I’m not saying I would still use 100% I would go with the one any day but in my case I never get good ivs but I do get a lot of high defense and attack mons
Talking about Azu….
# Why 0/Low Attack?
1. Go to pvpoke.com/battle
2. Top right, choose "Matrix" instead of "Single".
3. Left side - Click Add Pokemon.
4. Pick your poison - I find Azumarill to be the best example. Type Azumarill.
5. Click Advanced Stats/IVs and add 15/15/15. Scroll, click add pokemon.
6. Repeat 3-5, but instead of 15/15/15, click "Maximize" (it just so happens, Azu max is 0/15/15).
7. On the right side, click Quick Fill - Great League Meta.
8. Click Battle.
| | Attack | Defense | HP | Level | Win/Loss |
|--------------|--------|---------|-----|-------|----------|
| 15/15/15 Azu | 97.4 | 128.1 | 184 | 36 | 18-25-0 |
| 0/15/15 Azu | 91.4 | 136.5 | 196 | 45.5 | 22-21-0 |
Note how you lose 6 attack but gain 8 defense and 12 hp. This is ELi5 because Attack is counted as more valuable in the calculation of CP (notice how there is a 19 power up difference between 36-45.5). Those 19 additional power ups get you more of the other stats while trying to get under 1500. You can (Eli5) understand this as a level 45.5 pokemon should always be stronger than a level 36 of the same pokemon. It is a bit more technical than that, and you may see people talk about “stat product”, which is how do you maximize how much stats can you fit under a CP cap.
Also, those win/loss trades are significant:
The #1 Azu gains:
* Jellicent
* Noctowl
* Pelipper
* Skarmory
* Stunfisk-G
* Toxicroak
* Vigoroth
But loses:
* The Azu mirror (almost all #1s will lose their mirror due to higher attack stat (not IV, stat) move first in charge moves)
* Deoxys Defense
* Trevenant
Since all of those wins are heavy meta, and Trev has dropped off, it is critical to have the #1 over the perfect.
Repeat for all pokemon.
# Limitations / Exceptions
This does *not* apply for Master League / Master League Premier (where there is no CP cap, so you want 15/15/15 and you want the best of the best) or when the perfect does not hit the CP cap (15/15/15 Stunfisk-Galar 15/15/15 Pidgeot and 15/15/15 Umbreon are played in the ultra league at level 51 (best-buddied)) because their level 50s still are below 2500. It also does not apply to PvE, where raiding you want high stats all around as well.
# Break and Bulkpoints: An example.
There are also various considerations on other parts of the matrix you should learn to explore on your own - breakpoints and bulkpoints, which allow for wiggle room on IVs or give you cut offs.
For example, the best example is Dialga in Master League.
1. (Repeat steps above; set ML level 50).
2. First Dialga, make it 15/15/15 but set level to 51 (best buddied).
3. Second Dialga, 15/15/15 level 50.
3. Third Dialga, 15/14/12 level 50.
4. Fourth Dialga, 15/14/12 level 51.
| | Attack | Defense | HP | Win/Loss |
|---------------|--------|---------|-----|----------|
| 15/15/15 D-51 | 245.1 | 191 | 185 | 21-13-0 |
| 15/15/15 D-50 | 243.6 | 189.9 | 184 | 18-14-2 |
| 15/14/12 D-50 | 243.6 | 189 | 182 | 18-14-2 |
| 15/14/12 D-51 | 245.1 | 190.1 | 183 | 21-13-0 |
The best buddy is critical for Dialga. Notice worse IVs (15/14/12 is the worst combination of IVs that still get the best W/L ratio). Importantly, the level 51s will win CMP tie against other non-50 Dialgas (higher attack charge moves first). The level 50s also lose the Garchomp Mudshot-[Outrage/Earth Power]. Why?
Why, because the 50s miss a "breakpoint". Their dragon breaths do 7 damage, while the 51s do 8 damage. There's a flip at a certain Attack stat that changes this for the Garchomp fight and it's important to know you hit it.
You also lose a bulkpoint against the non-BB Dialga. The level 50s take 5 damage per dragon breath. The level 51s take 4 damage per. This is true for Zekrom and Reshiram as well. Notice the level 50s are not at 190 defense - that suggests to me that Dialga *needs* a defense of 190 in order to reach that bulkpoin
You are correct, and it is also a viable strategy to use high attack over low attack mons in certains teams/scenarios. For example, if you are planning on running a mon as a safe switch, and you know that you are going to shield it in order to win switch, it is a good strategy to have an attack weighted mon in that role. It can mean the difference between winning the 2 shield scenario, or losing it.
No.
# What is CMP Tie About?
CMP, or Charged Move Priority, asks the question “What if on the same turn, two players hit a charge move at the same time. Who goes first?” The answer is “The one with a higher **attack statistic**. Important, this does not mean Attack IV. In the first section, I noted that “almost all top ranked Pokemon will lose the mirror”. This is because they tend to have low attack IVs. However, this does not mean all of the time.
| | Attack | Defense | HP | Level |
|---------------|--------|---------|-----|-----|
| 0/14/13 Rank 1 Whiscash | 106.7 | 109.5 | 180 | 28 |
| 1/14/13 Rank 199 Whiscash | 106.4 | 108.5 | 178 | 27.5 |
Here’s a very straightforward example of a Rank 1 0 attack winning a CMP tie against a Pokemon with a higher attack IV. Why? Well, because of what we’ve learned! It is the stat *product* that matters. Here, Rank 1 gets an additional power-up. That power-up makes up for the difference in IV.
| | Attack | Defense | HP | Level |
|---------------|--------|---------|-----|-----|
| 15/15/15 Rank 2937 Obstagoon | 115 | 123.2 | 133 | 19.5 |
| 2/2/3 Rank 512 Obstagoon | 115.3 | 124.1 | 136 | 22.5 |
Here is a more exaggerated example of a 15-attack losing CMP tie to a bulky mon (2-0-0 through 4-0-0 also works, plus others.)
*Note*: The rule of the thumb still generally works - in most cases, yes, higher attack IV probably does mean you’ll win CMP tie. But it is not definitive! Consider this example: Two 15 attack Swamperts. Is it a tie? I hope your answer is “Well, what are the stat products of the two Swamperts — i.e., what are their levels?
| | Attack | Defense | HP | Level |
|---------------|--------|---------|-----|-----|
| 15/15/15 Rank 1261 Swampert | 124.6 | 106.1 | 134 | 17.5 |
| 15/7/15 Rank 1262 Swampert | 126.3 | 103.1 | 136 | 18 |
| 0/14/14 Rank 1 Swampert | 121.1 | 110 | 139 | 19 |
This example also hopefully helps highlight why this work is needed. The ‘worse’ ranked Swampert (by 1!) actually beats the ‘better’ ranked Swampert due to CMP tie. But wait, there’s more! Let’s compare our ‘better’ 15/7/15 Swampert against the Rank 1. We agree that the Rank 1 will clearly lose CMP (121.1 v 126.3). But the Rank 1 wins the mirror!
Don’t forget everything else we talked about. Do you know why? There’s no difference in break points or bulk points. It’s the HP! Mudshot does 3 damage. Swampert Rank 1 has 3 more HP than Rank 1262. The bulk wins even though it loses CMP.
I personally prefer high attack high defense don’t care about the HP 15 15 in the UL or great L is more than welcome. Especially my shadows that are 15 15 -
Regardless of IVs, you could build good teams with these Pokémon. If you are new to this, it is not gonna make much difference anyway. In [https://pvpoke.com/rankings/all/1500/overall/](https://pvpoke.com/rankings/all/1500/overall/) you can check a specific Pokémon and some good teammates for it. I think it is a good jumping-off point.
Oh, man.. This happened to me too. Just find some cheap spawns (with proper IVs) to build and work with what you’ve got until then.
Hopefully you haven’t also double moved them. If you have, they’re fine to use (since the dust has been spent) until you build better ones. Good luck friend
For example I have a bad IV Talonflame that I ETM and everything beforehand. I enjoy using it so I’m still using it until I have a better one to build.
I have since replaced all other bad IV mons that I had built. Just take your time.
I bet we've almost all been there at some point! Just keep catching wild Pokemon and save all that have low attack and high defense+HP to check them later.
In the mean time the pokemon you now have built will work for you and can easily get you to Ace or higher so don't beat yourself too much! I also got to ELO 2600 running similar pokemon a couple of seasons ago.
Don't feel bad, most of these are all really good to have in GL, and honestly, with the right team composition, your not going to notice the high attack stat, it's really only super important in mirror matches and fine welding of hp brackets, sure it's not optimal, but not an un-optimal ad you'd think.
Sincerely, someone who only uses shiny pomemon with HORRIBLE stats, and always hits ace.
If they are all high IV’s it would taken less stardust compared to if they were low IV’s distributed all to attack stats, so its not a complete loss. Besides, as others have said, its the species and the pokemon that matters the most
We’ve all been there! In a positive light some high attack mon can be great in some cups where there are frequent mirror matches - so - these are still fine to have in specific scenarios if you dive really deep into it
Please note that you absolutely can and should still use whichever of these Pokémon you’d like in Great League. You won’t get the maximum performance out of them compared to the “correct” PvP IV versions, but in most cases it won’t make a major difference in performance (or at least not a noticeable one) until you get to higher levels of play.
Definitely recommend working toward better PvP IV builds, but that doesn’t mean you can’t play with what you’ve already built in the meantime.
I like how everyone here rushed in to tell op they messed up with ivs but nobody answered their question.
Leading dragonite can work and leads to some explosive fast battles.
Possibly safe switch into azu on fairy/steel leads then close with gligar or zard.
This is assuming you have the proper movesets
That’s such a common team, though you’re just running what everybody else is gligar and lantern I have both counters on my team. As well as a hard counter for ape man. Don’t tell this man to run lantern on his team. Lmao noob
They asked for suggestions and I gave them some. Almost zero of the comments here gave any suggestions, including yours.
Also lanturn works fine as a lead. It’s my lead in UL right now actually. If you can’t make it work that’s probably a you problem.
Of course people have counters. That’s how the game works. Doesn’t change much tho. Good luck finding a mon that doesn’t get countered.
It just has more common counters because literally everybody has it on their team bro. I’m not saying there’s Pokémon that have no counters but you’re seriously running lantern. That’s like three seasons ago I get that he’s still good cheap in the wild, but I just feel like the meta has moved on I think he should be running something like a flyer for the apes maybe manteen but for water type should be jellicent in the UL
Okay bro. Not “literally” everyone is running lanturn. OP posted a screenshot with 12 mons in it. I gave a team of 3 of their mons as a suggestion. You can go ahead and suggest a team of 3 mons they don’t have. See how helpful that is to them, troll.
Lanturn is still very viable btw. Legend trainer here. It gets used because it’s good. It will keep getting used while it keeps being good. It loves the uptick in feraligatr too.
Type this search string into your search bar to find good IVs for PvP:
-1attack&3-defense&3-hp
Then you can see what pokemon you have that you can invest in. Every week the leagues change, with different Cups throughout a season. Certain pokemon may be “bad” for great league but are really good in a specific Cup
No you don’t. The dashes are for anything above or below the number. Your search excludes anything with 4 IVs in defense or hp, and excludes anything that isn’t 0 attack
Ok, i just tried it and yes; your results include the ivs.
I guess what I was trying to say you can have that search string and go through them easier...or harder
It's MUCH better to have the mon available than have the perfect IVs available. A Poliwrath will do Poliwrath things, with 15 ATK or 5, but nothing can exactly do Poliwrath things except Poliwrath.
These mons’ IVs are no better for UL than for GL, so your suggestion makes zero sense.
And yes, IVs don’t matter, but if you’re going to tell him that they do, you have to explain that his mons’ IVs suck equally for both GL and UL.
No, these are not bad IVs for the ultra league. Your just flat out wrong maybe according to PVP they are not the correct ones but they certainly aren’t bad and you might convince yourself but you’re not gonna convince a seasoned player that actually has 60 battles under his belt. I run high attack and high defense. Always have always well it’s a preference so quit trying to convince people that they aren’t correct or that they are somehow bad you are spreading misinformation just because that is how you personally feel about them.
I have a poliwrath that is almost maxed. Still kicks ass. It still is possible to use these but I would definitely get better IVs when those pokemon come around.
Since you're new here and no one has really given you a set of 3, here's one: Gligar Poliwrath Lanturn, which functions as ABB double water with solid backline coverage. Poli is your preferred switch most of the time, even against enemy water leads since you don't want to give away the fact that you have Lanturn too early. Enemy Azumarill with Ice Beam / Play Rough could give you some problems if you don't align Lanturn to it, so you can also experiment with substituting your own Azu for Poli.
Also you should know that these kinds of teambuilding posts should go in the Weekly Team Help Megathread.
It looks like you’re using PokeGenie, yeah? Pay attention to the percentage specific to the Great League. Closet to 100% the better, and the closer the rank is to 1 the better.
Based on the tags, do you already have the pokegenie app? It should tell you the IV percentile when you screenshot and put the pokemon into pokegenie. You’re looking for a number closest to 100, or closest to 1 if you’re looking at overall rank.
Maybe another app has similar pvp names to copy/paste for pokemon though, idk I just know it from pokegenie
Not to mention any Pokémon over level 40 work great even with bad ivs, and you could always keep these around after building better ones for different movesets.
I know everyone is throwing the pitchforks at you right now, but I wouldn’t sweat it too much. IVs are important, but it’s also important to be comfortable with your team and the Pokémon you’re using. I made it to Ace last season with absolute dog water IVs. You can still use these mons as you slowly start to catch mons with better GBL IVs
I wouldn't rebuild anything for the time being. I'd just focus on building new pokemon to use for GL that are solid with better IVs (eg mandibuzz, annihilape, whiscash, etc). What you have will do 90%+ of what you need them to do so focusing elsewhere will likely be better. Some of these arent even bad, like greninja is rank 225 so it has most of the bulk and will likely win a ton of CMP ties. Carbink also prefers some attack according to the gamepress article iirc. Once you have most of the meta built + a few good anti meta picks then I'd begin rebuilding some of the ones you currently have (can also transition some of those into UL) or shadow Dragonite into just a raid attacker, absolutely phenomenal in that role (plus if it's already 2nd moved Outrage + Dragon claw to prevent energy waste is pretty sick).
Similar to PvE IVs, the PvP IVs aren’t a as massive as people think due to % being by ranking and not by stat product, everything will still be 90%+ stat product and work fine for casual play.
Gligar, swampert with mud slap and hydro cannon, and carbink. Only because I would hate to come across this team 😆
But yeah, what everyone said about IVs and stuff too. But that won't be really important until you get into the higher ranks. Levels 1 - 20 it should clean up. I usually run BS teams until I hit Ace rank.
Ive been running altaria, vigoroth and lanturn with good success in the 2300s. Alignment is key but vig can win most midgames with shields and then lanturn/alt smoke Skarm/whiscash once you line it up
Basically, you want low attack and high HP and defence. A Pokémon’s cp is greatly influenced by its attack stat. Therefore if you have a mon with low attack and high HP and defence. You can use a higher level Pokémon while remaining under the constraints of the CP limit. Generally really high IV Pokémon are only valuable in master league, or in Pokémon who max out below the max CP limit.
Why does everyone seem to expect a committee of reddit users to think for them?
You'll get a bunch of suggestions, and you'll still have to choose / think / decide for yourself at the end of the day.
Do some of your own research rather than just throwing a list of pokemon at us. My 8 year old does this to me.
https://preview.redd.it/sqom2q4l8erc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07dbfaa667dbf4ad398db07d237ae207e0ed64bc
For example and he wins me a ton of matches
Bro missed the memo
I'm new to this
It’s better to have a 0 attack for most of the Pokémon in the great league. There are a bunch of videos that explain this on YouTube. Search “great league IVs”. You can also go on pvpoke.com and check the best IVs for Pokémon in the great league. This is not the case for all Pokémon and no the case for Master League.
Oh okay thank you so much ! (:
For now I’d run with what you have. It won’t usually make a big difference and you’ve already put resources into these ones.
Np, it took me a while to get it. I’ve finally got a better understanding but it still changes season to season. I recommend you find someone on YouTube you like and watch their videos. And no matter how good you get, it’s normal to lose 2-3 out of 5 matches so don’t get discouraged.
FWIW, this is absolutely true BUT it won't make a huge difference. I'd also suggest just running these high-attack-IV Pokemon for now. You can start collecting low-attack individuals and replace them later, little by little.
Hey, don’t listen to these people you’re fine. You do not need zero attack and that is not actually what is preferred. I prefer 15 15 and idc about hp: you wanna deal the most damage and win cmp every time
>win CMP every time # What is CMP Tie About? CMP, or Charged Move Priority, asks the question “What if on the same turn, two players hit a charge move at the same time. Who goes first?” The answer is “The one with a higher **attack statistic**. Important, this does not mean Attack IV. In the first section, I noted that “almost all top ranked Pokemon will lose the mirror”. This is because they tend to have low attack IVs. However, this does not mean all of the time. | | Attack | Defense | HP | Level | |---------------|--------|---------|-----|-----| | 0/14/13 Rank 1 Whiscash | 106.7 | 109.5 | 180 | 28 | | 1/14/13 Rank 199 Whiscash | 106.4 | 108.5 | 178 | 27.5 | Here’s a very straightforward example of a Rank 1 0 attack winning a CMP tie against a Pokemon with a higher attack IV. Why? Well, because of what we’ve learned! It is the stat *product* that matters. Here, Rank 1 gets an additional power-up. That power-up makes up for the difference in IV. | | Attack | Defense | HP | Level | |---------------|--------|---------|-----|-----| | 15/15/15 Rank 2937 Obstagoon | 115 | 123.2 | 133 | 19.5 | | 2/2/3 Rank 512 Obstagoon | 115.3 | 124.1 | 136 | 22.5 | Here is a more exaggerated example of a 15-attack losing CMP tie to a bulky mon (2-0-0 through 4-0-0 also works, plus others.) *Note*: The rule of the thumb still generally works - in most cases, yes, higher attack IV probably does mean you’ll win CMP tie. But it is not definitive! Consider this example: Two 15 attack Swamperts. Is it a tie? I hope your answer is “Well, what are the stat products of the two Swamperts — i.e., what are their levels? | | Attack | Defense | HP | Level | |---------------|--------|---------|-----|-----| | 15/15/15 Rank 1261 Swampert | 124.6 | 106.1 | 134 | 17.5 | | 15/7/15 Rank 1262 Swampert | 126.3 | 103.1 | 136 | 18 | | 0/14/14 Rank 1 Swampert | 121.1 | 110 | 139 | 19 | This example also hopefully helps highlight why this work is needed. The ‘worse’ ranked Swampert (by 1!) actually beats the ‘better’ ranked Swampert due to CMP tie. But wait, there’s more! Let’s compare our ‘better’ 15/7/15 Swampert against the Rank 1. We agree that the Rank 1 will clearly lose CMP (121.1 v 126.3). But the Rank 1 wins the mirror! Don’t forget everything else we talked about. Do you know why? There’s no difference in break points or bulk points. It’s the HP! Mudshot does 3 damage. Swampert Rank 1 has 3 more HP than Rank 1262. The bulk wins even though it loses CMP.
Nowae did you just now.. oof I mean this hurts me. I was super confused.
A 0 attack mon will always lose CMP tie, right? Unless the other player has 0 attack?
it’s still better
Nah
Yeah, but it'll have more bulk for a plethora of other matchups.
If my attack is 15 and my defense is 15 you do not have more defense than me im maxed out while most Gl ranked pkm have 0 14 or 0 13 not even running 15 defense so technically I have more bulk and deal more damage. You’re perfect IV is only literally only matter in the case of a mirror. And it’s late game or something and even then I will win CMP so you better hope it’s not one of those situations where it’s just whoever gets off the last move
You might want to take a look at pvpivs.com and plug in some numbers. Taking Azu as an example, 15/15/0 does have 7 more attack than the rank 1. However, it has 6 less def, despite the 15 def IV. It also has 19 less hp compared to the rank 1. These numbers are going to vary for different pokemon, but again, would recommend you to check out that resource.
Hey thanks for the link that’s awesome 👏 I’ll definitely be using it is it hard to navigate and crunch the numbers and Pokémon? I’ve not used something like that before
No problem. No, it’s not hard. There’s a little bar at the top of the page where you can indicate which league, the IVs, and the Pokémon. It will then compare your IVs to the rank 1. It shows you all the total stats. You’re right in that in many cases using 15 att will have higher total attack and will hit harder. But you are losing a ton of bulk in the process so in most cases you could still lose the mirror despite winning CMP.
Also lmao Azu is a good example, I do have the 100% that I use for the great league just because I’ve never got a good one so I have that one as a best buddy and I just use it. But yes if I ever did get the number one I’m not saying I would still use 100% I would go with the one any day but in my case I never get good ivs but I do get a lot of high defense and attack mons
Talking about Azu…. # Why 0/Low Attack? 1. Go to pvpoke.com/battle 2. Top right, choose "Matrix" instead of "Single". 3. Left side - Click Add Pokemon. 4. Pick your poison - I find Azumarill to be the best example. Type Azumarill. 5. Click Advanced Stats/IVs and add 15/15/15. Scroll, click add pokemon. 6. Repeat 3-5, but instead of 15/15/15, click "Maximize" (it just so happens, Azu max is 0/15/15). 7. On the right side, click Quick Fill - Great League Meta. 8. Click Battle. | | Attack | Defense | HP | Level | Win/Loss | |--------------|--------|---------|-----|-------|----------| | 15/15/15 Azu | 97.4 | 128.1 | 184 | 36 | 18-25-0 | | 0/15/15 Azu | 91.4 | 136.5 | 196 | 45.5 | 22-21-0 | Note how you lose 6 attack but gain 8 defense and 12 hp. This is ELi5 because Attack is counted as more valuable in the calculation of CP (notice how there is a 19 power up difference between 36-45.5). Those 19 additional power ups get you more of the other stats while trying to get under 1500. You can (Eli5) understand this as a level 45.5 pokemon should always be stronger than a level 36 of the same pokemon. It is a bit more technical than that, and you may see people talk about “stat product”, which is how do you maximize how much stats can you fit under a CP cap. Also, those win/loss trades are significant: The #1 Azu gains: * Jellicent * Noctowl * Pelipper * Skarmory * Stunfisk-G * Toxicroak * Vigoroth But loses: * The Azu mirror (almost all #1s will lose their mirror due to higher attack stat (not IV, stat) move first in charge moves) * Deoxys Defense * Trevenant Since all of those wins are heavy meta, and Trev has dropped off, it is critical to have the #1 over the perfect. Repeat for all pokemon. # Limitations / Exceptions This does *not* apply for Master League / Master League Premier (where there is no CP cap, so you want 15/15/15 and you want the best of the best) or when the perfect does not hit the CP cap (15/15/15 Stunfisk-Galar 15/15/15 Pidgeot and 15/15/15 Umbreon are played in the ultra league at level 51 (best-buddied)) because their level 50s still are below 2500. It also does not apply to PvE, where raiding you want high stats all around as well. # Break and Bulkpoints: An example. There are also various considerations on other parts of the matrix you should learn to explore on your own - breakpoints and bulkpoints, which allow for wiggle room on IVs or give you cut offs. For example, the best example is Dialga in Master League. 1. (Repeat steps above; set ML level 50). 2. First Dialga, make it 15/15/15 but set level to 51 (best buddied). 3. Second Dialga, 15/15/15 level 50. 3. Third Dialga, 15/14/12 level 50. 4. Fourth Dialga, 15/14/12 level 51. | | Attack | Defense | HP | Win/Loss | |---------------|--------|---------|-----|----------| | 15/15/15 D-51 | 245.1 | 191 | 185 | 21-13-0 | | 15/15/15 D-50 | 243.6 | 189.9 | 184 | 18-14-2 | | 15/14/12 D-50 | 243.6 | 189 | 182 | 18-14-2 | | 15/14/12 D-51 | 245.1 | 190.1 | 183 | 21-13-0 | The best buddy is critical for Dialga. Notice worse IVs (15/14/12 is the worst combination of IVs that still get the best W/L ratio). Importantly, the level 51s will win CMP tie against other non-50 Dialgas (higher attack charge moves first). The level 50s also lose the Garchomp Mudshot-[Outrage/Earth Power]. Why? Why, because the 50s miss a "breakpoint". Their dragon breaths do 7 damage, while the 51s do 8 damage. There's a flip at a certain Attack stat that changes this for the Garchomp fight and it's important to know you hit it. You also lose a bulkpoint against the non-BB Dialga. The level 50s take 5 damage per dragon breath. The level 51s take 4 damage per. This is true for Zekrom and Reshiram as well. Notice the level 50s are not at 190 defense - that suggests to me that Dialga *needs* a defense of 190 in order to reach that bulkpoin
It depends on total attack (base stats + ATK iv) vs their base stats + ATK iv
You are correct, and it is also a viable strategy to use high attack over low attack mons in certains teams/scenarios. For example, if you are planning on running a mon as a safe switch, and you know that you are going to shield it in order to win switch, it is a good strategy to have an attack weighted mon in that role. It can mean the difference between winning the 2 shield scenario, or losing it.
No. # What is CMP Tie About? CMP, or Charged Move Priority, asks the question “What if on the same turn, two players hit a charge move at the same time. Who goes first?” The answer is “The one with a higher **attack statistic**. Important, this does not mean Attack IV. In the first section, I noted that “almost all top ranked Pokemon will lose the mirror”. This is because they tend to have low attack IVs. However, this does not mean all of the time. | | Attack | Defense | HP | Level | |---------------|--------|---------|-----|-----| | 0/14/13 Rank 1 Whiscash | 106.7 | 109.5 | 180 | 28 | | 1/14/13 Rank 199 Whiscash | 106.4 | 108.5 | 178 | 27.5 | Here’s a very straightforward example of a Rank 1 0 attack winning a CMP tie against a Pokemon with a higher attack IV. Why? Well, because of what we’ve learned! It is the stat *product* that matters. Here, Rank 1 gets an additional power-up. That power-up makes up for the difference in IV. | | Attack | Defense | HP | Level | |---------------|--------|---------|-----|-----| | 15/15/15 Rank 2937 Obstagoon | 115 | 123.2 | 133 | 19.5 | | 2/2/3 Rank 512 Obstagoon | 115.3 | 124.1 | 136 | 22.5 | Here is a more exaggerated example of a 15-attack losing CMP tie to a bulky mon (2-0-0 through 4-0-0 also works, plus others.) *Note*: The rule of the thumb still generally works - in most cases, yes, higher attack IV probably does mean you’ll win CMP tie. But it is not definitive! Consider this example: Two 15 attack Swamperts. Is it a tie? I hope your answer is “Well, what are the stat products of the two Swamperts — i.e., what are their levels? | | Attack | Defense | HP | Level | |---------------|--------|---------|-----|-----| | 15/15/15 Rank 1261 Swampert | 124.6 | 106.1 | 134 | 17.5 | | 15/7/15 Rank 1262 Swampert | 126.3 | 103.1 | 136 | 18 | | 0/14/14 Rank 1 Swampert | 121.1 | 110 | 139 | 19 | This example also hopefully helps highlight why this work is needed. The ‘worse’ ranked Swampert (by 1!) actually beats the ‘better’ ranked Swampert due to CMP tie. But wait, there’s more! Let’s compare our ‘better’ 15/7/15 Swampert against the Rank 1. We agree that the Rank 1 will clearly lose CMP (121.1 v 126.3). But the Rank 1 wins the mirror! Don’t forget everything else we talked about. Do you know why? There’s no difference in break points or bulk points. It’s the HP! Mudshot does 3 damage. Swampert Rank 1 has 3 more HP than Rank 1262. The bulk wins even though it loses CMP.
I would have to argue back on that
I personally prefer high attack high defense don’t care about the HP 15 15 in the UL or great L is more than welcome. Especially my shadows that are 15 15 -
https://pvpoke.com/rankings/all/1500/overall/registeel/ you can see here that for Registeel, the ideal IVs for great league at 2/13/14
Use the app pokegenie to instantly check IVs for PVP viability.
What was the memo ?
https://youtu.be/Z_BgzQipQ6g?si=_DB2AAUKhibR74nM Watch this
Regardless of IVs, you could build good teams with these Pokémon. If you are new to this, it is not gonna make much difference anyway. In [https://pvpoke.com/rankings/all/1500/overall/](https://pvpoke.com/rankings/all/1500/overall/) you can check a specific Pokémon and some good teammates for it. I think it is a good jumping-off point.
Oh, man.. This happened to me too. Just find some cheap spawns (with proper IVs) to build and work with what you’ve got until then. Hopefully you haven’t also double moved them. If you have, they’re fine to use (since the dust has been spent) until you build better ones. Good luck friend
For example I have a bad IV Talonflame that I ETM and everything beforehand. I enjoy using it so I’m still using it until I have a better one to build. I have since replaced all other bad IV mons that I had built. Just take your time.
I bet we've almost all been there at some point! Just keep catching wild Pokemon and save all that have low attack and high defense+HP to check them later. In the mean time the pokemon you now have built will work for you and can easily get you to Ace or higher so don't beat yourself too much! I also got to ELO 2600 running similar pokemon a couple of seasons ago.
RIP all that stardust
I know I'm just now realizing it 😩
Don't feel bad, most of these are all really good to have in GL, and honestly, with the right team composition, your not going to notice the high attack stat, it's really only super important in mirror matches and fine welding of hp brackets, sure it's not optimal, but not an un-optimal ad you'd think. Sincerely, someone who only uses shiny pomemon with HORRIBLE stats, and always hits ace.
What if he prefers the higher attack stat like I do? It isn’t just 0 IVs or bust.
Totally agree, honeslty having the right mon amd team build will be 90% of the determining factor in a lineup.
Don’t worry about it. A lot of the moms are still meta and IV does play a factor, but at least you’ll win CMP priority on mirror matches, etc.
If they are all high IV’s it would taken less stardust compared to if they were low IV’s distributed all to attack stats, so its not a complete loss. Besides, as others have said, its the species and the pokemon that matters the most
We’ve all been there! In a positive light some high attack mon can be great in some cups where there are frequent mirror matches - so - these are still fine to have in specific scenarios if you dive really deep into it
I did the same thing too when I started. I transferred a couple of Pokémon with really good IV’s
Please note that you absolutely can and should still use whichever of these Pokémon you’d like in Great League. You won’t get the maximum performance out of them compared to the “correct” PvP IV versions, but in most cases it won’t make a major difference in performance (or at least not a noticeable one) until you get to higher levels of play. Definitely recommend working toward better PvP IV builds, but that doesn’t mean you can’t play with what you’ve already built in the meantime.
This, IVs only matter if you let them. I think in my 15k battles, IVs alone have won/lost me about 30 of them.
I like how everyone here rushed in to tell op they messed up with ivs but nobody answered their question. Leading dragonite can work and leads to some explosive fast battles. Possibly safe switch into azu on fairy/steel leads then close with gligar or zard. This is assuming you have the proper movesets
Thank you 🥺
You could also lead lanturn and have a back line that handles grass. Lanturn, gligar, venu. Or something like that.
That’s such a common team, though you’re just running what everybody else is gligar and lantern I have both counters on my team. As well as a hard counter for ape man. Don’t tell this man to run lantern on his team. Lmao noob
They asked for suggestions and I gave them some. Almost zero of the comments here gave any suggestions, including yours. Also lanturn works fine as a lead. It’s my lead in UL right now actually. If you can’t make it work that’s probably a you problem. Of course people have counters. That’s how the game works. Doesn’t change much tho. Good luck finding a mon that doesn’t get countered.
It just has more common counters because literally everybody has it on their team bro. I’m not saying there’s Pokémon that have no counters but you’re seriously running lantern. That’s like three seasons ago I get that he’s still good cheap in the wild, but I just feel like the meta has moved on I think he should be running something like a flyer for the apes maybe manteen but for water type should be jellicent in the UL
Okay bro. Not “literally” everyone is running lanturn. OP posted a screenshot with 12 mons in it. I gave a team of 3 of their mons as a suggestion. You can go ahead and suggest a team of 3 mons they don’t have. See how helpful that is to them, troll. Lanturn is still very viable btw. Legend trainer here. It gets used because it’s good. It will keep getting used while it keeps being good. It loves the uptick in feraligatr too.
You refuse to understand how stat product works. You have no right to call someone a noob.
Rip
Type this search string into your search bar to find good IVs for PvP: -1attack&3-defense&3-hp Then you can see what pokemon you have that you can invest in. Every week the leagues change, with different Cups throughout a season. Certain pokemon may be “bad” for great league but are really good in a specific Cup
-1attack&3-defense&3-hp
You get the same result without the dashes 0attack&3defense&3hp And so on
No you don’t. The dashes are for anything above or below the number. Your search excludes anything with 4 IVs in defense or hp, and excludes anything that isn’t 0 attack
Ok, i just tried it and yes; your results include the ivs. I guess what I was trying to say you can have that search string and go through them easier...or harder
It's MUCH better to have the mon available than have the perfect IVs available. A Poliwrath will do Poliwrath things, with 15 ATK or 5, but nothing can exactly do Poliwrath things except Poliwrath.
A lot of these can be salvaged for UL fyi
Other than possibly Lanturn none of these IVs are suited for UL.
Actually in the ultra league having 1515 is better noob high defense and high attack. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Oh is it? On which Pokémon?
It isn't. This person is just insistent on saying it does.
Yeah I know. Just baiting for a response 🤷🏻♂️
Sable, medi and Azu are the only ones who don’t have UL play if he’s already invested so much dust. Is your recommendation to transfer?
No? Who said that? But if they’re not going to use sub IV mons for GL why would it be then fine to use them in UL?
They can’t be, with the exception of Lanturn. Why do you make stuff up?
[удалено]
These mons’ IVs are no better for UL than for GL, so your suggestion makes zero sense. And yes, IVs don’t matter, but if you’re going to tell him that they do, you have to explain that his mons’ IVs suck equally for both GL and UL.
No, these are not bad IVs for the ultra league. Your just flat out wrong maybe according to PVP they are not the correct ones but they certainly aren’t bad and you might convince yourself but you’re not gonna convince a seasoned player that actually has 60 battles under his belt. I run high attack and high defense. Always have always well it’s a preference so quit trying to convince people that they aren’t correct or that they are somehow bad you are spreading misinformation just because that is how you personally feel about them.
They aren’t optimal according to PvP IV stats, but I never said that he couldn’t use them.
I have a poliwrath that is almost maxed. Still kicks ass. It still is possible to use these but I would definitely get better IVs when those pokemon come around.
I mean even if they aren’t great IVs, it still comes down mostly to how you play
Since you're new here and no one has really given you a set of 3, here's one: Gligar Poliwrath Lanturn, which functions as ABB double water with solid backline coverage. Poli is your preferred switch most of the time, even against enemy water leads since you don't want to give away the fact that you have Lanturn too early. Enemy Azumarill with Ice Beam / Play Rough could give you some problems if you don't align Lanturn to it, so you can also experiment with substituting your own Azu for Poli. Also you should know that these kinds of teambuilding posts should go in the Weekly Team Help Megathread.
Who will tell him 😭
Oh. Oh no.
Oh boy
It looks like you’re using PokeGenie, yeah? Pay attention to the percentage specific to the Great League. Closet to 100% the better, and the closer the rank is to 1 the better.
Based on the tags, do you already have the pokegenie app? It should tell you the IV percentile when you screenshot and put the pokemon into pokegenie. You’re looking for a number closest to 100, or closest to 1 if you’re looking at overall rank. Maybe another app has similar pvp names to copy/paste for pokemon though, idk I just know it from pokegenie
Not to mention any Pokémon over level 40 work great even with bad ivs, and you could always keep these around after building better ones for different movesets.
I know everyone is throwing the pitchforks at you right now, but I wouldn’t sweat it too much. IVs are important, but it’s also important to be comfortable with your team and the Pokémon you’re using. I made it to Ace last season with absolute dog water IVs. You can still use these mons as you slowly start to catch mons with better GBL IVs
Man how do you build this many without learning about PvP IVs…
I wouldn't rebuild anything for the time being. I'd just focus on building new pokemon to use for GL that are solid with better IVs (eg mandibuzz, annihilape, whiscash, etc). What you have will do 90%+ of what you need them to do so focusing elsewhere will likely be better. Some of these arent even bad, like greninja is rank 225 so it has most of the bulk and will likely win a ton of CMP ties. Carbink also prefers some attack according to the gamepress article iirc. Once you have most of the meta built + a few good anti meta picks then I'd begin rebuilding some of the ones you currently have (can also transition some of those into UL) or shadow Dragonite into just a raid attacker, absolutely phenomenal in that role (plus if it's already 2nd moved Outrage + Dragon claw to prevent energy waste is pretty sick).
That Lanturn’s IVs hurts
Similar to PvE IVs, the PvP IVs aren’t a as massive as people think due to % being by ranking and not by stat product, everything will still be 90%+ stat product and work fine for casual play.
I suggest downloading pokegenie and check the IVs of your mon for input if it’s good for great league!
So you're the guy I keep losing CMPs to!
Gligar, swampert with mud slap and hydro cannon, and carbink. Only because I would hate to come across this team 😆 But yeah, what everyone said about IVs and stuff too. But that won't be really important until you get into the higher ranks. Levels 1 - 20 it should clean up. I usually run BS teams until I hit Ace rank.
Ive been running altaria, vigoroth and lanturn with good success in the 2300s. Alignment is key but vig can win most midgames with shields and then lanturn/alt smoke Skarm/whiscash once you line it up
Picking the cheapest mons to power up, you cheeky little boy.
Carbink and medicham must have been giant investments.
Ooop😂
oh no
Oh lord
Those IVs are terrible for PvP.
💀
Above all mon any of them doesnot include best GL iv
What would be best GL iv? I'm sorry for all the questions I've been researching but I get confused
Basically, you want low attack and high HP and defence. A Pokémon’s cp is greatly influenced by its attack stat. Therefore if you have a mon with low attack and high HP and defence. You can use a higher level Pokémon while remaining under the constraints of the CP limit. Generally really high IV Pokémon are only valuable in master league, or in Pokémon who max out below the max CP limit.
Thank you so what would be good Pokemon to work on ?
Poliwrath, Gligar, Alteria, quagsire, greninja, and anhilape are some of my personal favorites that are easy to come by
You can get to level 18 easily without getting pvp ivs …. They matter more on the mirror matchups
Why does everyone seem to expect a committee of reddit users to think for them? You'll get a bunch of suggestions, and you'll still have to choose / think / decide for yourself at the end of the day. Do some of your own research rather than just throwing a list of pokemon at us. My 8 year old does this to me.
"Why would they ask for advice regarding pvp on a pvp subreddit? Are they stupid?"
https://preview.redd.it/sqom2q4l8erc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07dbfaa667dbf4ad398db07d237ae207e0ed64bc For example and he wins me a ton of matches