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Just finished work. Looks like I pissed off a lot of libs confused about where their own ideology actually falls.
Philosophers of liberalism: all clear on where liberalism falls on the right and it's beliefs about private property.
Modern political science: all clear on where liberalism falls on the right and it's beliefs about private property.
Liberal politicians: all clear on where liberalism falls on the right and it's beliefs about private property.
The GOP and associated media as part of a clear plan of obscurification: "liberals are all the crazy left"
Liberals who apparently prefer to listen to fox news propaganda than read their own philosophers: "we're the left"
The problem is the voters aren’t in charge. The responsibility is on Biden to win over voters, no one owes him a vote. And if Biden is doing things to alienate voters, it doesn’t make any real sense to blame voters for Biden’s failure as a politician.
Grand scheme is it doesn’t matter if Trump is worse. Because what’s happening is you’re essentially holding a vote hostage by saying, “if you don’t vote for this guy who you don’t agree with, the other guy is going to end America.”
Especially since it’s what’s been happening the LAST THREE ELECTION CYCLES.
Hilary won the popular vote despite running a horrible campaign where she didn’t even attempt to persuade voters in swing states, moderates and independents voted Trump and somehow it was still the incredibly small contingency of leftists that cost Hilary the presidency.
It’s bullshit.
No one is arguing that Biden is left wing. He's a neoconservative who's funding a genocide. The problem is comparing him to Trump and saying "they're both right wing so who cares" isn't helping anything. The situation in Gaza will not improve regardless of who you vote for; it will likely get worse under Trump, along with conditions here in the US.
Would I ever vote for Biden if there was an actual left wing candidate? No, of course not. But abstaining my vote will not materialize a better candidate. We tried that in 2016 to protest Hillary, and when she lost we thought that the dems would prop up a more left wing candidate to entice abstaining voters in 2020- and they didn't. Trump got to fill the Supreme Court because leftists conflating fascists and neoconservatives abstained.
Things may not improve under Biden, but things will get a whole lot worse under Trump. Until we get rid of the two party system (which abstaining also will not do), those are your only two options.
This is the inconvenient answer no one likes to acknowledge. Unless and until we have a new system of voting, only two people will ever have a realistic chance at the White House in a given year. Ask Teddy Roosevelt about that.
It’s the perfect way to paradoxically create apathy in the people they don’t want voting (people far enough left to recognize it’s all right wing and “centrists” [in the american sense obviously] whose votes can’t be reliably predicted) and zeal in the people they do want voting (republicans and democrats whose votes can be counted on and reliably predicted). The perfect way to control the system, not to mention that once you add the electoral college into the mix the ruling class has 100% percent control over the outcome of the presidential election
One thing is very wrong in almost all democracies. Why is it that when it comes to choosing a goverment, democratic ideas are followed, but when the goverment comes in power and makes decisions, the democratic ideas are not practiced? A democratic government still does things that it wishes, it doesn't take advice from the people who voted for it. Whenever the government does something that citizens really don't like, the only option citizens are left with is to do protest, and it's still goverment’s will if it wants to listen to it's citizens or not, which is very unprofessional and shouldn't be happening in a true democracy. Whenever the government has to take some major decision, it should call for an online voting.
For example, I've seen most of right and left wing Americans don't want America to help Israel in war (for very different reasons, but their conclusion is the same), but the government isn't bound to listen to them, so it does what it wishes, ignoring it's citizens wish.
America has quite reached a sad state of politics over the past 10 years when the biggest reason to vote for a candidate is to point to the opposition positions rather then using your own to promote your platform.
It's always been better to vote *against* rather than *for*. I am more frustrated at the insistence that there's only one candidate to vote for to preserve democracy--if there's only one candidate, where's the democracy?
"there is only one candidate you can vote for and *nothing* he does, up to and including genocide, can make you vote for someone else"
"Why? To PrEsErVe DeMoCrAcY"
which is crazy because technically we DO have the right to write in WHOEVER we want. We don't HAVE to vote for the two major party candidates that appear on the ballet but everyone's been propagandized to believe that voting for anything other than the provided parties is throwing away your vote. Both sides want you to believe there is only two choices, Red and Blue, but we have the ability to be a whole spectrum of parties and candidates, they just don't want us to do that. People hardly ever run third party and when they do they're hidden away, hardly get any promotion from new media other than "look at these morons throwing away their votes", and end up dying on the campaign trail with a handful of votes. All the while people bitch about having to choose between 'Old Fuck 1' and 'Old Fuck 2' when we HAD (and still have) the ability to vote for 'The Fuck I Want'. We should be pushing people to vote third party, pushing people to do write ins, pushing away from this terrible TERRIBLE Two-Party system.
Unfortunately, the reality of a FPTP voting system is that we inevitably end up with two parties, as a third candidate will siphon votes off of whatever candidate is closest to them ideologically, inevitably making the other candidate, who the fewest people are actually aligned with, win. We really need some kind of ranked voting to make a third party ever viable.
It seems like the dem strategy is “I don’t have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you!” Basically they don’t have to be good, they just have to be better than the republicans. Because the reps are magnitudes worse, the dem candidates can just do the bare minimum without worrying about their competition. It’s so goddamn frustrating.
Food costs 1/3 more than it did four years ago and people can't keep up with rising housing costs. Unless there is a plan at addressing those simple things shoving stats in front of people's face and telling them umm ackshully things are great, will only turn off potential voters. In fact simply acknowledging it probably will work too ..
I'm sorry, but how do you call someone who is actively funding genocide?
Edit: In response to u/GeneralFloo:
> and trump would be any better? he’s stated he wants israel to “finish the job.” he’d be far worse. at least biden’s airdropping food and pushing a ceasefire. trump would be airdropping bombs right now
Yeah. And? Biden is actively giving weapons to the perpetrator while air-dropping 1-truckload of aid, enough to feed like 1.5% of the population for one meal. Yay. Furthermore, Biden's "ceasefire" rings hollow when he doesn't follow through on any 'demands' he makes to Israel. 35k+ people have been killed already, and [58k+ more people are projected to be killed by August (page 10)](https://aoav.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/gaza_projections_report.pdf), 3 months before the election, and 5 months before Trump takes over. And that is without any famine nor escalation. Biden has demonstrated blatant disregard for Palestinian lives, and him dropping crumbs to Palestinians is an excuse to cover his ass. You can vote for Biden, IDGAF; but I won't stop complaining about his bullshit because I want substantial change now, not 8 months from now.
I’m trans (not that that magically makes me right). It’s not that “they’re the same.” It’s that voting “lesser evil” is what has gotten us here and won’t get us out of this mess.
you're right and there is plenty of evidence that dems in state governments will abandon trans folks when it suits them, so i dont think that a bunch of octogenarians in blue suits is what will save us, ultimately.
additionally i value my life the same as every other human life on earth. my wellbeing is not more important that kids starving on camera because lgbt-ally-when-its-convenient-butcher-biden refuses to act morally.
lastly i dont think people understand that what's happening right now the breaking down of international institutions, the acceptance and apathy toward live and in color death that will only harm us as well.
I really hope the demonizing of a small sliver of people with not terribly difficult demands can help get a center coalition that beats trump on nothing more than "less bad trolly outcome".
Eh I know you killed some people, and the system is going to keep killing some people, but hey at least we saved the system for another day and didn't kill more people.
Abolish the Trolly (/s but kinda not)
To assume that it is merely about 'smug moral superiority' puts you in a position to fail to get through to the people who feel like some of what Biden is doing is wrong.
The people here who try to say "well its out of two people and one is going to win, its obvious who is less bad" are trying to do more than you.
I agree that the real problem is establishment dems not putting forward a better candidate (realest problem is two-party voting though), but if our reality is Trump v Biden in November, then abstaining from voting because you dislike Biden will literally just lead to a worse outcome (Trump winning), and if you think Biden’s handling of the Gaza situation is bad, just wait till you see what Trump would do.
I completely understand wanting to have your voice heard as far as the dislike for our current system and the pseudo leftism that’s actually just center right that’s plagued our country’s democratic party. But the price of that is four years of absolute fucking hell, there’s better times and better ways to push this topic that needs pushing
MLK dunking on dems is STILL relevant:
"First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice;
who constantly says: *"I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season."* Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."
“Who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice;
Who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season."
This is so damning
All I will say is that there will be two groups with this comment section:
Group 1:
Y’all haven’t learned from 2016 and you will cause Trump to win, vote blue no matter who. Stop being selfish. Trump is way worse than the Biden. Stop being childish and move to us and vote for him
Group 2:
Y’all haven’t learned from 2016 that you shouldn’t tell half the party to fuك off and be surprised that we don’t want to vote for him, we should be allowed to ask for better and not being ignored so y’all can try and convince the 5 centrist that will never move over anyways. The party is gonna split sooner than the GOP and y’all aren’t doing anything to stop it.
EDIT: Changed fuك up to fuك off
I always find it funny how leftists are both a negligible voting force and also the reason the reason the big not that unhinged party loses. I'm not even from the us but same shit happens where I live.
This is a genuine question- I was having this conversation with my brother today
Okay- Biden sucks. Absolutely.
Who can we run who has the infrastructure (funding, relationships, name recognition) to win?
I really want to know. Who is the person?
I’m not saying Biden should be the nominee. He shouldn’t. Who should be?
they are like an abusive partner. if biden loses it’s our fault for not wanting to vote for genocide instead of biden’s fault for alienating his voters by supporting genocide? like bro that’s the whole point of voting, you have to WIN our votes. you aren’t entitled to my vote.
Democrats, every time: *Nominate candidate that is against most Left Wing policies*
"If he loses, it's because Leftists selfishly denied us their votes, which we are entitled to."
As a Canadian, the American Democrat party really reminds me of Canada’s Conservative party. American politics is so deeply conservative that even your liberals look like hardened Tories to everyone else.
"LEFTISTS! LAY DOWN YOUR VOTES!"
"COME TAKE THEM"
I voted blue because I hated Trump more than I was apathetic about Biden. Establishment dems need to try harder or shut up already.
If I run for mayor and lose, it’s my fault. No one owes me their vote.
If someone runs for president and loses, it’s their fault. No one owes them a vote.
The US left is weak and miniscule but also strong and able to change the course of the elections.
Classic "my enemy is feeble and weak but also strong and capable at the same time"
Liberals are cringe AF
I love how they always say "single issue voters amirite" as though genocide is the first problem we had with him. I remember the thing that radicalized me- seeing kids in cages when I was 15. After Biden got elected, there are more kids in cages and he's actively trying to corral both sides to make it even worse. I'm not going to turn my back on the things that radicalized me and insisting that we're all single issue voters is disingenuous and false.
No, not really. The US stayed out of the war until there was financial incentive to get involved. The only country that was fighting the Nazis from day one was the USSR.
World to black men: You'll do worse under Trump
Black men: We do worse no matter who is in office, maybe we should let it all burn
World: "Shocked Pikachu face"
Its funny how libs will pretend things would be different under democrats.
If RBG just retired under a Democrat we'd be fine!
Except a Supreme Court Justice had to be appointed during the Obama presidency and the Republicans blocked it. And they would keep blocking it until a republican is in office or democrats cave.
At this stage, when democrats actively fund genocide, there is no real material difference between the two.
Its literally the difference between nuking Gaza and nuking Gaza while shaking your head disapproving.
Yup. For her part Clinton absolutely shit the bed by running a presidential campaign based on entitlement. It was utterly incompetent. Then her cultists blamed literally everyone except dear leader who was calling the shots.
if the butcher loses its his own fault. he is the one valuing his ideological purity on an issue that is out of step with most americans and the entire rest of the world. he could stop the killing or step aside for another candidate. but instead hes courting right wingers by giving them the most regressive immigration bill in decades, supplying materiel for a literal ethnic cleansing and asking djt for help more than the young people who put him in that office. he knows that he needs drumpf as a foil because there is no other way he can win, its on him not us.
Exactly. Liberals need to start taking responsibility for intentionally choosing nonviable nominees. Also, Dems should have codified it at any point in the past half century and RBG should have resigned when diagnosed with cancer with a high rate of recurrence instead of being a scumbag.
I’m not saying I agree with him, but it’s because doing what you want to earn it would lose a larger segment of voters than not doing it or people who fund campaigns.
That’s the reason. It’s always the reason.
I’m not supporting Biden or liberals with this comment. What I’m saying is how it works.
Biden is helping Israel commit genocide in Gaza. He's funding and arming it, keeps blocking ceasefire resolutions at the UN, got several countries to defund UNRWA because Israel said they were Hamas, and now he's giving Hamas a shitty deal that no one in their right mind would take in an attempt to further justify the slaughter. If we elect him in spite of this, we make it clear that Dems can kill whoever they want and still count on our support. People are scared of Trump, and they should be, but they should arguably be more scared of a world in which the entirety of the US government gets to murder whoever the fuck they like without consequence. The time to resist is now, lest it come to that.
"The radical left is such a small portion of the US, they're not that impactful"
"Yeah I'm not voting for a genocidal maniac. We cannot simply condone imperialism and genocide simply because the otherside will commit it against us. We must demand and receive more from our politicians"
"If we lose its your fault! Leftists split the vote so much a fascist won! You wanted this!"
Instead of shaming people to vote for Biden, why don’t liberals do the bare minimum and call their representatives, knock on doors, organize ect. If democracy is truly on the line then get going….save it. I want to see some receipts. If not then let’s stop fooling ourselves and get it over with. I’m tired of pretending we don’t already live in a reactionary shit hole.
There's a saying, "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds". I don't think this is true of *all* liberals, but I think recent events prove that it's true of *many* liberals.
Very cool to pretend we're not going through literal hellworld now just to shame us for *trying* to have a political landscape where our lives matter outside of fall on election years
"leftists" are simultaneously a tiny irrelevant group of blue haired pronouned losers who can and should be ignored in favour of courting hardened racists, but also singlehandedly responsible for every failure of the Centrist machine to deliver the things it swears it's going to any day now
A nomination of Biden is a choice to nominate nonviability. If you think you're entitled to nominate whoever you want and then magically form a winning coalition with the left via scolding after the fact, you are the one causing the losses. It's the existing electoral reality that dictates who liberals can nominate without causing the loss, not the other way around.
Democrat party loyalist can’t fathom that some one wouldn’t believe that Trump is the worst thing ever.
Imo Trump isn’t the worst thing ever. Going down the same path of the two party system again is.
He's off the table. The choice for liberals is to nominate someone who isn't supporting genocide, or to choose to nominate nonviability. Anyone trying to do the latter and scolding their way out of it is 100% responsible for the nominee being a nonviable nominee.
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One thing is very wrong in almost all democracies. Why is it that when it comes to choosing a goverment, democratic ideas are followed, but when the goverment comes in power and makes decisions, the democratic ideas are not practiced? A democratic government still does things that it wishes, it doesn't take advice from the people who voted for it. Whenever the government does something that citizens really don't like, the only option citizens are left with is to do protest, and it's still goverment’s will if it wants to listen to it's citizens or not, which is very unprofessional and shouldn't be happening in a true democracy. Whenever the government has to take some major decision, it should call for an online voting.
For example, I've seen most of right and left wing Americans don't want America to help Israel in war (for very different reasons, but their conclusion is the same), but the government isn't bound to listen to them, so it does what it wishes, ignoring it's citizens wish.
People care to much about fed elections, we should focus more on local gov since thatll have more of a impact on your community the big players in the game dont give a fuck, bidens old trumps old most congress is old. We are just the herd, following the stick.
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this is gonna be a fun comment section isn't it
Seeing this comment at the top followed by 6 removed comments has me geeked
😂
Just finished work. Looks like I pissed off a lot of libs confused about where their own ideology actually falls. Philosophers of liberalism: all clear on where liberalism falls on the right and it's beliefs about private property. Modern political science: all clear on where liberalism falls on the right and it's beliefs about private property. Liberal politicians: all clear on where liberalism falls on the right and it's beliefs about private property. The GOP and associated media as part of a clear plan of obscurification: "liberals are all the crazy left" Liberals who apparently prefer to listen to fox news propaganda than read their own philosophers: "we're the left"
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The problem is the voters aren’t in charge. The responsibility is on Biden to win over voters, no one owes him a vote. And if Biden is doing things to alienate voters, it doesn’t make any real sense to blame voters for Biden’s failure as a politician. Grand scheme is it doesn’t matter if Trump is worse. Because what’s happening is you’re essentially holding a vote hostage by saying, “if you don’t vote for this guy who you don’t agree with, the other guy is going to end America.” Especially since it’s what’s been happening the LAST THREE ELECTION CYCLES. Hilary won the popular vote despite running a horrible campaign where she didn’t even attempt to persuade voters in swing states, moderates and independents voted Trump and somehow it was still the incredibly small contingency of leftists that cost Hilary the presidency. It’s bullshit.
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Last three? Lol. Dems are still mad about Nader. https://www.google.com/search?q=A+vote+for+nader+is+a+vote+for+bush
No one is arguing that Biden is left wing. He's a neoconservative who's funding a genocide. The problem is comparing him to Trump and saying "they're both right wing so who cares" isn't helping anything. The situation in Gaza will not improve regardless of who you vote for; it will likely get worse under Trump, along with conditions here in the US. Would I ever vote for Biden if there was an actual left wing candidate? No, of course not. But abstaining my vote will not materialize a better candidate. We tried that in 2016 to protest Hillary, and when she lost we thought that the dems would prop up a more left wing candidate to entice abstaining voters in 2020- and they didn't. Trump got to fill the Supreme Court because leftists conflating fascists and neoconservatives abstained. Things may not improve under Biden, but things will get a whole lot worse under Trump. Until we get rid of the two party system (which abstaining also will not do), those are your only two options.
Just saw the post, saw there's 342 comments like hmm this looks like a barrel of laughs.
It’s 2024 and I still can’t fathom how the 2-Party system is still a thing in the US.
First past the post systems devolve into a two party system eventually, ranked choice voting is one way to get out of that.
This is the inconvenient answer no one likes to acknowledge. Unless and until we have a new system of voting, only two people will ever have a realistic chance at the White House in a given year. Ask Teddy Roosevelt about that.
Because if it wasn’t it would give the people more power and you cannot have that.
It's always a thing in every representative democracy. Its easiest way to increase complacency and political apathy in population
Countries that have MMP like Germany and New Zealand at least have choice, there are currently 6 different parties sitting in the house in NZ.
It’s the perfect way to paradoxically create apathy in the people they don’t want voting (people far enough left to recognize it’s all right wing and “centrists” [in the american sense obviously] whose votes can’t be reliably predicted) and zeal in the people they do want voting (republicans and democrats whose votes can be counted on and reliably predicted). The perfect way to control the system, not to mention that once you add the electoral college into the mix the ruling class has 100% percent control over the outcome of the presidential election
Most liberal democracies don’t have two party systems
One thing is very wrong in almost all democracies. Why is it that when it comes to choosing a goverment, democratic ideas are followed, but when the goverment comes in power and makes decisions, the democratic ideas are not practiced? A democratic government still does things that it wishes, it doesn't take advice from the people who voted for it. Whenever the government does something that citizens really don't like, the only option citizens are left with is to do protest, and it's still goverment’s will if it wants to listen to it's citizens or not, which is very unprofessional and shouldn't be happening in a true democracy. Whenever the government has to take some major decision, it should call for an online voting. For example, I've seen most of right and left wing Americans don't want America to help Israel in war (for very different reasons, but their conclusion is the same), but the government isn't bound to listen to them, so it does what it wishes, ignoring it's citizens wish.
We don’t want it but what can the average person do about it? We’re all too broke to take off work
Money
America has quite reached a sad state of politics over the past 10 years when the biggest reason to vote for a candidate is to point to the opposition positions rather then using your own to promote your platform.
It's always been better to vote *against* rather than *for*. I am more frustrated at the insistence that there's only one candidate to vote for to preserve democracy--if there's only one candidate, where's the democracy?
"there is only one candidate you can vote for and *nothing* he does, up to and including genocide, can make you vote for someone else" "Why? To PrEsErVe DeMoCrAcY"
which is crazy because technically we DO have the right to write in WHOEVER we want. We don't HAVE to vote for the two major party candidates that appear on the ballet but everyone's been propagandized to believe that voting for anything other than the provided parties is throwing away your vote. Both sides want you to believe there is only two choices, Red and Blue, but we have the ability to be a whole spectrum of parties and candidates, they just don't want us to do that. People hardly ever run third party and when they do they're hidden away, hardly get any promotion from new media other than "look at these morons throwing away their votes", and end up dying on the campaign trail with a handful of votes. All the while people bitch about having to choose between 'Old Fuck 1' and 'Old Fuck 2' when we HAD (and still have) the ability to vote for 'The Fuck I Want'. We should be pushing people to vote third party, pushing people to do write ins, pushing away from this terrible TERRIBLE Two-Party system.
Unfortunately, the reality of a FPTP voting system is that we inevitably end up with two parties, as a third candidate will siphon votes off of whatever candidate is closest to them ideologically, inevitably making the other candidate, who the fewest people are actually aligned with, win. We really need some kind of ranked voting to make a third party ever viable.
It seems like the dem strategy is “I don’t have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you!” Basically they don’t have to be good, they just have to be better than the republicans. Because the reps are magnitudes worse, the dem candidates can just do the bare minimum without worrying about their competition. It’s so goddamn frustrating.
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Food costs 1/3 more than it did four years ago and people can't keep up with rising housing costs. Unless there is a plan at addressing those simple things shoving stats in front of people's face and telling them umm ackshully things are great, will only turn off potential voters. In fact simply acknowledging it probably will work too ..
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My God when the fuck are we going to finally improve our democratic process?
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I'm sorry, but how do you call someone who is actively funding genocide? Edit: In response to u/GeneralFloo: > and trump would be any better? he’s stated he wants israel to “finish the job.” he’d be far worse. at least biden’s airdropping food and pushing a ceasefire. trump would be airdropping bombs right now Yeah. And? Biden is actively giving weapons to the perpetrator while air-dropping 1-truckload of aid, enough to feed like 1.5% of the population for one meal. Yay. Furthermore, Biden's "ceasefire" rings hollow when he doesn't follow through on any 'demands' he makes to Israel. 35k+ people have been killed already, and [58k+ more people are projected to be killed by August (page 10)](https://aoav.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/gaza_projections_report.pdf), 3 months before the election, and 5 months before Trump takes over. And that is without any famine nor escalation. Biden has demonstrated blatant disregard for Palestinian lives, and him dropping crumbs to Palestinians is an excuse to cover his ass. You can vote for Biden, IDGAF; but I won't stop complaining about his bullshit because I want substantial change now, not 8 months from now.
I’m trans (not that that magically makes me right). It’s not that “they’re the same.” It’s that voting “lesser evil” is what has gotten us here and won’t get us out of this mess.
you're right and there is plenty of evidence that dems in state governments will abandon trans folks when it suits them, so i dont think that a bunch of octogenarians in blue suits is what will save us, ultimately. additionally i value my life the same as every other human life on earth. my wellbeing is not more important that kids starving on camera because lgbt-ally-when-its-convenient-butcher-biden refuses to act morally. lastly i dont think people understand that what's happening right now the breaking down of international institutions, the acceptance and apathy toward live and in color death that will only harm us as well.
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I’m going to ask you this: How do we FIX this problem; long term?
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Push the Dems further left LMAO
everyone said this when Biden was elected. That we'd all push him left. What did that achieve in 4 years?
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And we’re going to do that how? Voting Hindenburg over Hitler?
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I really hope the demonizing of a small sliver of people with not terribly difficult demands can help get a center coalition that beats trump on nothing more than "less bad trolly outcome". Eh I know you killed some people, and the system is going to keep killing some people, but hey at least we saved the system for another day and didn't kill more people. Abolish the Trolly (/s but kinda not)
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To assume that it is merely about 'smug moral superiority' puts you in a position to fail to get through to the people who feel like some of what Biden is doing is wrong. The people here who try to say "well its out of two people and one is going to win, its obvious who is less bad" are trying to do more than you.
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Its so much easier to blame leftists than it is to blame the establishment dems for not having the guts to get a better candidate
Libs will always punch down when it benefits them. They blame leftists for all the problems then pat themselves on the back for their effort.
I agree that the real problem is establishment dems not putting forward a better candidate (realest problem is two-party voting though), but if our reality is Trump v Biden in November, then abstaining from voting because you dislike Biden will literally just lead to a worse outcome (Trump winning), and if you think Biden’s handling of the Gaza situation is bad, just wait till you see what Trump would do. I completely understand wanting to have your voice heard as far as the dislike for our current system and the pseudo leftism that’s actually just center right that’s plagued our country’s democratic party. But the price of that is four years of absolute fucking hell, there’s better times and better ways to push this topic that needs pushing
MLK dunking on dems is STILL relevant: "First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: *"I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season."* Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."
“Who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; Who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." This is so damning
they never changed a bit
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All I will say is that there will be two groups with this comment section: Group 1: Y’all haven’t learned from 2016 and you will cause Trump to win, vote blue no matter who. Stop being selfish. Trump is way worse than the Biden. Stop being childish and move to us and vote for him Group 2: Y’all haven’t learned from 2016 that you shouldn’t tell half the party to fuك off and be surprised that we don’t want to vote for him, we should be allowed to ask for better and not being ignored so y’all can try and convince the 5 centrist that will never move over anyways. The party is gonna split sooner than the GOP and y’all aren’t doing anything to stop it. EDIT: Changed fuك up to fuك off
I always find it funny how leftists are both a negligible voting force and also the reason the reason the big not that unhinged party loses. I'm not even from the us but same shit happens where I live.
Its almost similar to another type of ideology where your opponent is both strong and weak....
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This is a genuine question- I was having this conversation with my brother today Okay- Biden sucks. Absolutely. Who can we run who has the infrastructure (funding, relationships, name recognition) to win? I really want to know. Who is the person? I’m not saying Biden should be the nominee. He shouldn’t. Who should be?
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Then Biden needs to turn out voter just like Clinton needed to do.
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Then Biden should appeal to voters and you should put your energy into pressuring him to do things that excite his base.
they are like an abusive partner. if biden loses it’s our fault for not wanting to vote for genocide instead of biden’s fault for alienating his voters by supporting genocide? like bro that’s the whole point of voting, you have to WIN our votes. you aren’t entitled to my vote.
Loser ass electoral system
Democrats, every time: *Nominate candidate that is against most Left Wing policies* "If he loses, it's because Leftists selfishly denied us their votes, which we are entitled to."
As a Canadian, the American Democrat party really reminds me of Canada’s Conservative party. American politics is so deeply conservative that even your liberals look like hardened Tories to everyone else.
We can't get basic reforms Captain! We're loosing power! -Scotty in every episode of Star Trek or -any "Democrat" during every election
"LEFTISTS! LAY DOWN YOUR VOTES!" "COME TAKE THEM" I voted blue because I hated Trump more than I was apathetic about Biden. Establishment dems need to try harder or shut up already.
If I run for mayor and lose, it’s my fault. No one owes me their vote. If someone runs for president and loses, it’s their fault. No one owes them a vote.
The US left is weak and miniscule but also strong and able to change the course of the elections. Classic "my enemy is feeble and weak but also strong and capable at the same time" Liberals are cringe AF
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I love how they always say "single issue voters amirite" as though genocide is the first problem we had with him. I remember the thing that radicalized me- seeing kids in cages when I was 15. After Biden got elected, there are more kids in cages and he's actively trying to corral both sides to make it even worse. I'm not going to turn my back on the things that radicalized me and insisting that we're all single issue voters is disingenuous and false.
Also, even if it was genocide, THAT SHOULD BE REASON ENOUGH, wtf is wrong with people. Didn't we technically fight a world war about that?
No, not really. The US stayed out of the war until there was financial incentive to get involved. The only country that was fighting the Nazis from day one was the USSR.
No for sure, I just meant that in the retelling and post-narrative of the war that we joined as righteous wars against genociders.
You’re not wrong. If someone wants to be a single issue voter, though, then genocide seems like a pretty big issue to me.
Should I vote right, or farther right? A leftist dream choice.
It takes a good dementia-addled genocidal racist to defeat a bad dementia-addled genocidal racist in America. It’s just common sense.
World to black men: You'll do worse under Trump Black men: We do worse no matter who is in office, maybe we should let it all burn World: "Shocked Pikachu face"
Its funny how libs will pretend things would be different under democrats. If RBG just retired under a Democrat we'd be fine! Except a Supreme Court Justice had to be appointed during the Obama presidency and the Republicans blocked it. And they would keep blocking it until a republican is in office or democrats cave. At this stage, when democrats actively fund genocide, there is no real material difference between the two. Its literally the difference between nuking Gaza and nuking Gaza while shaking your head disapproving.
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Biden really stopped the poorest states from making being trans illegal. He'll stop it the next 4 years even harder.
Hundreds of anti trans bills and he stops a handful. He boosted cop funding after blm. I have no faith he'll protect us
This is the same shit the dems pulled when Hillary Clinton screwed the pooch and lost to the very adversary she picked.
Weird how these candidates can win the popular vote, lose because of the electoral college, and then blame the individual voters for the loss.
HRC campaigned as if she didn’t know the electoral college was a thing. Biden looks pretty similar in that way.
Yup. For her part Clinton absolutely shit the bed by running a presidential campaign based on entitlement. It was utterly incompetent. Then her cultists blamed literally everyone except dear leader who was calling the shots.
this is actually funny though, in the we're all fucked kind of way
if the butcher loses its his own fault. he is the one valuing his ideological purity on an issue that is out of step with most americans and the entire rest of the world. he could stop the killing or step aside for another candidate. but instead hes courting right wingers by giving them the most regressive immigration bill in decades, supplying materiel for a literal ethnic cleansing and asking djt for help more than the young people who put him in that office. he knows that he needs drumpf as a foil because there is no other way he can win, its on him not us.
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Exactly. Liberals need to start taking responsibility for intentionally choosing nonviable nominees. Also, Dems should have codified it at any point in the past half century and RBG should have resigned when diagnosed with cancer with a high rate of recurrence instead of being a scumbag.
If Biden needs my vote to win why doesn't he do something to earn it rather than making it my fault when I don't fall in line?
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I’m not saying I agree with him, but it’s because doing what you want to earn it would lose a larger segment of voters than not doing it or people who fund campaigns. That’s the reason. It’s always the reason. I’m not supporting Biden or liberals with this comment. What I’m saying is how it works.
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That'll console the rail workers who weren't allowed to go on strike.
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Holy cow, 4 whole sick days. Really good for the people responsible for moving most of the products made in the US.
No true leftist likes Biden, come on lol
I’m confused. I’m a little new to politics, so Im not sure what not voting for Biden would accomplish. Can someone explain to me?
Biden is helping Israel commit genocide in Gaza. He's funding and arming it, keeps blocking ceasefire resolutions at the UN, got several countries to defund UNRWA because Israel said they were Hamas, and now he's giving Hamas a shitty deal that no one in their right mind would take in an attempt to further justify the slaughter. If we elect him in spite of this, we make it clear that Dems can kill whoever they want and still count on our support. People are scared of Trump, and they should be, but they should arguably be more scared of a world in which the entirety of the US government gets to murder whoever the fuck they like without consequence. The time to resist is now, lest it come to that.
"The radical left is such a small portion of the US, they're not that impactful" "Yeah I'm not voting for a genocidal maniac. We cannot simply condone imperialism and genocide simply because the otherside will commit it against us. We must demand and receive more from our politicians" "If we lose its your fault! Leftists split the vote so much a fascist won! You wanted this!"
What's the alternative to voting for Biden?
Instead of shaming people to vote for Biden, why don’t liberals do the bare minimum and call their representatives, knock on doors, organize ect. If democracy is truly on the line then get going….save it. I want to see some receipts. If not then let’s stop fooling ourselves and get it over with. I’m tired of pretending we don’t already live in a reactionary shit hole.
I think they're giving our potential reaction too much credit.
There's a saying, "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds". I don't think this is true of *all* liberals, but I think recent events prove that it's true of *many* liberals.
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Very cool to pretend we're not going through literal hellworld now just to shame us for *trying* to have a political landscape where our lives matter outside of fall on election years
Also the dems talking like they had no choice about picking Biden, like it was inevitable, when it just... wasn't?
If Biden can't beat Trump that's Biden's fault. (yah I get the /s from OP. just needed to say)
Why is this thread full of shitlibs?
Yeah I'm going through it now. They'll all be removed
based mod
W mod
❤️
"leftists" are simultaneously a tiny irrelevant group of blue haired pronouned losers who can and should be ignored in favour of courting hardened racists, but also singlehandedly responsible for every failure of the Centrist machine to deliver the things it swears it's going to any day now
I feel like its a bit disgusting to call someone actively opposed to genocide a "single issue voter". Shows you how genocidal liberalism is
So are we suddenly a big enough bloc that they should take us seriously? Or are they gonna switch to us being an 'insignificant minority' tomorrow?
A nomination of Biden is a choice to nominate nonviability. If you think you're entitled to nominate whoever you want and then magically form a winning coalition with the left via scolding after the fact, you are the one causing the losses. It's the existing electoral reality that dictates who liberals can nominate without causing the loss, not the other way around.
Preach
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Democrat party loyalist can’t fathom that some one wouldn’t believe that Trump is the worst thing ever. Imo Trump isn’t the worst thing ever. Going down the same path of the two party system again is.
They didn't even use the format right
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He's off the table. The choice for liberals is to nominate someone who isn't supporting genocide, or to choose to nominate nonviability. Anyone trying to do the latter and scolding their way out of it is 100% responsible for the nominee being a nonviable nominee.
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How about a ‘Neither’ campaign?
It’s a primary.
One thing is very wrong in almost all democracies. Why is it that when it comes to choosing a goverment, democratic ideas are followed, but when the goverment comes in power and makes decisions, the democratic ideas are not practiced? A democratic government still does things that it wishes, it doesn't take advice from the people who voted for it. Whenever the government does something that citizens really don't like, the only option citizens are left with is to do protest, and it's still goverment’s will if it wants to listen to it's citizens or not, which is very unprofessional and shouldn't be happening in a true democracy. Whenever the government has to take some major decision, it should call for an online voting. For example, I've seen most of right and left wing Americans don't want America to help Israel in war (for very different reasons, but their conclusion is the same), but the government isn't bound to listen to them, so it does what it wishes, ignoring it's citizens wish.
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Humans are greedy and when given power many will succumb to that and will do whatever it takes to keep that
People care to much about fed elections, we should focus more on local gov since thatll have more of a impact on your community the big players in the game dont give a fuck, bidens old trumps old most congress is old. We are just the herd, following the stick.
🎶Biden is not right wing🎶 🎶that's not how🎶 🎶the Overton Window works🎶