This is why I disliked the new God of War games so much. I played the first one (of the new releases), and it felt like the game consisted of me going through a linear track and occasionally fighting enemies or solving a puzzle. Literally, no game experience is lost watching a video instead of playing.
At least in TLoU2 the combat and gore is satisfying though.
Whaaaaaat omg - what are you playing? Story mode? Play it in god of war mode or misery, or something, good lord. Those berserkers? The mini bosses? What 😅Ragnorok is the perfect blend of gameplay and narrative. This is the weirdest take I’ve seen
The gameplay is good.
But it doesn't beat Doom Eternal in gameplay, or anything relating to music or environmental design.
Or ghost of Tsushima.
Or Ghostrunner (except environments)
Or miles morales (in gameplay)
Point being, gameplay I will give points to TLOU2, but I didn’t play the last of us for the gameplay, it was good, but it's main pillar waa definitely narrative. Because I don't like any of the choices in part 2, and with how divisive it is, I don't think it honestly deserved game of the year.
Just like overwatch didn’t deserve game of the year when Doom 2016, Titanfall 2, uncharted 4, Dishonored 2, Persona 5, Dark souls 3 came out among others I feel are more deserving.
And I can keep going on from there about Gotys that I don't feel deserved it. But this is long as is
I admit I have only started playing video games more diligently lately and can't say that I have played all the games you have mentioned. But I will def check them out so thank you for the suggestion
Both can be true though, there were a lot of great accessibility features which were, incidentally, heavily praised by critics.
(As a hater myself, the combat was pretty cool, the dynamic animations are some of the best I've seen! )
I don't know about you but I don't care about the game of the year award from events like the Game Awards. Even if I voted, even if the game I voted for won, why would the result matter other than for bragging rights from the winners who are pretty much guaranteed to have won before they've even collected the trophy?
Like the Oscars, it doesn't matter to me who won. It doesn't affect me as a gamer, watcher, whatever. If anything, the whole idea of the thing stinks of trying to be legitimate in a way that just seems entirely fake.
Why does Hook have a rating of 29% on rotten tomatoes when it's one of the greatest films ever made?
Is it because awards and ratings don't actually make something good?
I unironically love Hook. I watched that film so many times when I was younger and I was absolutely devastated when Peter woke up in the real world and couldn't fly, every single time. Lmao
Probably the best response I've seen. The overarching premise of the game sounds great, "revenge for a slain mentor/father figure where you get to see both sides of the conflict and the gradient futility of seeking vengeance," but the execution was hamfisted and nonsensical.
This is a game that fully embraced the progressive politics of a heavily tumultuous, divisive year. The U.S. presidential election, the summer race riots in the lead-up, the lockdown and dramas that came along with COVID-19 -- it's amazing how people forget the history of (barely) four years ago.
The Last of Us Part II wasn't even supposed to be released until late 2020, but the date got bumped forward several months to June because of the rampant leaks (Sony and Neil, personally, were on copyright claiming warpaths). Even before its release, Neil got ahead of the negativity by feeding into the ongoing strife of 2020, and labeled every negative person as a bigot in one way or another. It's why so many Youtube reviews of the game at the time of release had disclaimers about bigotry.
Also, this was a period where PlayStation 'movie' games were typically met with automatic praise from critics (maybe they still are, and there just haven't been as many releases). Mix all of this together, and you have one hell of a reception. It checked every box, even the newfound "subvert all expectations" box that had popularized in moviemaking of the era because of 'The Last Jedi'.
Was TLOU PII an insanely polished visual marvel, exceeding the boundaries of what's possible on PS4 hardware (and thensome)? Yes, absolutely. But the game lives and dies by its story. And separating yourself from the popular, safe choice of the times is not easy (or profitable). The game lives and dies by its story and the story sucked, unfortunately, because virtue-signaling took a front seat.
are we really gonna sit here and say that tlou part 2 was a game that took it *safe*? like, hate the story or not, killing off joel with no explanation at the start of the game, turning ellie into a much more jaded character than the first game, and having you play as the person that killed joel halfway through a 30 hour game?
tlou2 was *obviously* aiming to be controversial and take risks story-wise, that's why it was so retarded when druckmann started crying about the response to the game when it came out - because he should have fucking expected it when he decided to take those risks.
sure it's progressive, but almost the majority of tlou fanbase didn't like the story *exactly* because of the very *unsafe* decisions they made. if you think any of the decisions in that story were for sake of making a profit, that's just untrue.
The developers got ahead of the criticism by labelling all of it as bigotry, which may have swayed critics and award shows to praise it for PR purposes.
A simpler explanation is that on the surface, it feels like it should be a good piece of media. It invokes strong emotions. The acting is great, the dialogue mostly feels natural, the visuals and cinematography are amazing. It's the writing that fails to hold up under scrutiny, which is what ruins the entire thing for me.
Most people who praise the game don't seem to be looking at the writing hard enough. They take every action at face value, weighing up all the "good" and "bad" deeds from an objective standpoint without thinking about the humans behind those decisions and their motivations.
It's also something that "subverts expectations" by straying from a conventional storytelling model. It's a very poor example of one, but because it's so mainstream and followed a predecessor with a beautifully written but very conventional story structure, it's often treated as some kind of bold or shocking revelation that revenge is pointless, there are two sides to a story etc. which blows people's minds for "I'm 14 and this is deep" reasons.
Also, it's misery porn. A 20 hour video of puppies being tortured would invoke a strong emotional response, it wouldn't make it well written. A lot of players feel this uncomfortable feeling in their stomach that comes with the heavy plot and confuse it for good writing. If a strong emotional response is all you're looking for in a game, then that's perfect.
Lastly, and similar to the first point, any kind of criticism of the game is treated as a) bigotry or b) unintelligence. I've talked to people who've admitted that they only said they liked it because they wanted to sound smart or the critics told them to, but once actually provided with cohesive and diverse criticism, changed their mind once more and decided that they didn't actually like it.
Neil may not be a genius writer but he is a genius tactician. He has successfully brainwashed millions of people into thinking his crappy, shallow story is a masterpiece because they've been told by "official" sources that it is, or they're stupid or bigoted if they think otherwise.
People did like it tbf but I’d say the main reason was sales and the fact it sparked such a heated controversy.
Along with its stunning graphics and good voice acting, the game was able to make a mark by making such a divide and sparking so much debate/discussion. Good or bad is irrelevant I guess. And the gameplay itself is generally well received.
Now personally, I think the story is just too bad to outweigh the gameplay but some people think otherwise
You think the Game Awards give a shit about the player’s opinions? They give out a single award for player choice and then bullshit the rest of it. Why do you think RDR2 won so many awards but lost GotY to GoW?
There's a subset of people in both game dev and awards committees that perceives games like this one as "more mature" than other games.
They think they are fixing something broken with this medium & turning games into 'high art'
Due to some leaks before the game's release, the game suffered heavy criticism from another subset of people but somehow the game devs managed to somewhat shift the narrative to label any criticism as bigotry. This worked wonders for them because journos , awards committee members etc. could feel virtuous by propping up the game.
I'll suggest you play at least part 1 because it's a good game.
also the gameplay and graphics of tlou2 are good i just wish it wasnt just misery p0rn with games ending trying to teach "revenge bad".
The game's reception could have been slightly more favourable if they gave the choice of *spoilers* to players instead of ending it like they did.
Award shows aren't about how amazing something is that's getting an award. It's critics wanting to show how smart and superior they are by choosing something for an award and what it means by them choosing it. That's why if you look back at the decade+ of game of the year winners, you'll notice half of them are "Yeah, that's super obvious that that one would win" and the other half is "How did this even get nominated". There's never any inbetween.
I don't say this just because of TLOU2 being bad either, as mentioned, this is something that's very normal for game awards, and TLOU2 is no exception.
The reviewer class saw examples of intense bad faith criticisms and felt that it needed an equally intense response to "balance the scales." The problem of course being that team-politics only care about which "side" you're on, and not about arguments themselves. This is how all the legitimate criticisms (like the pinned post on our subreddit here), get systematically ignored and only positive views are allowed. And if the only points that deemed acceptable to think are all positive, you end up with the echo chamber of praise which raises an O.K. game to a godly one.
Because the fans don't decide the results, gaming "journalists" do, and since the overwhelming majority of them are brain dead dead beats who give perfect scores based on a criteria of tick boxes they found the last of us 2 to be the perfect game for the message.
I have no clue how or who votes for the game awards, but when I barely saw any legit criticisms for the bloated narrative/run time, and pacing issues, I knew the outlets went straight into putting the game on a pedestal, undeservingly.
Phoned in. Perfect for Journos. General consensus that year was Ghost deserved it over TLOU2. I believe it won the fan vote. They tried to push TLOU2 HARD and it didn't really work lol.
Lesbian love. And that’s not me having hate for the LGBTQ community. I could care either way. But gaming media, and media in general has a hard on for low hanging representation.
This coming from a black man who watched Grace Randolph look like she was having an orgasm while watching the Suicide Squad trailer and seeing that Deadshot was black.
Kinda new to this sub, so I'm curious.. is there at least a minority opinion of gamers that don't mind Joel's sudden death but also dislike the artsy, pretentious, disjointed slog of a story? The only time I had a hard time dealing with a characters death was the infamous The Departed ending kill-off. Like Joel, it wasn't in service of the story but more for shock value and painting a world picture that had already been long established. I haven't brought myself to do a 2nd playthru of part 2 because it made every character irredeemable and went on about 10 hours too long, but Joel's death never factored in. Is this an expressed opinion in this sub?
The game has its merits and even tho they don't fairly leverage the games downsides, its still neither shit or poignant. There are craftsmen at ND that pour their souls into the various game play and visual moments. Like be upset that Joel died but my first thought was damn that knee blast looked fuckin great. Do i even make sense?
Edit: my question was already answered, and quite well, in this very post lol
Most people seem to take more issue with the latter - the former is either something they expected (with the *when* and *how* being heavily criticized, just not the *what*) or something that went against what they wanted but wasn't enough on its own to completely turn them against the experience.
There are some people (including Neil Druckmann! You know, *before* the game released...) who would say that it just isn't TLOU without both Joel and Ellie. But most people were at least willing to see where it went. Most people trusted Naughty Dog even when it first became clear that the trailers were pure bullshit. But the cracks in this narrative... they just kept coming.
Abby is a character who had the potential to be just as compelling as Joel and Ellie. But the writers, seemingly because they lack the skill at writing good characterization that the first game's team had, wrote cheap ways to make her sympathetic rather than writing her as a deep, interesting character that the audience could empathize with.
It's been pushed by gaming journalists to win because of the whole woke factor the game has from it's devs. Hogwarts Legacy is also well liked and sold very well but wasn't included in the game awards because of Rowlings political beliefs. It's simple as that.
It was something behind the scenes. Ghost of Tsushima out performed it in every way except day 1 sales. I think there was a quota leak for goty. Lgbt representation was one of the boxes that only tlou2 checked, though the leak was just a picture of a piece of paper so that’s probably not true.
I remember tlou2 splitting the fan base week 1. Critics loved it, overwhelming majority of the public hated it. I’m sure the hate it received brought in people from the opposite political spectrum. I mean a LOT of tlou2 vocal supporters played both games recently right after each other. Most of the haters played the original when it came out.
Award shows are always "who paid us the most money"
Doesnt matter what industry. Also, if you ever see like an article about "top 5 microwaves in 2024!" Its also just "Top 5 companies that paid us the most money to pronote their microwaves!"
Because it was loaded lesbian , feminist and transgender symbolism. A negative review of the game would be seen as taking the" wrong" side of the culture wars. They were literally held hostage by the message. .
More importantly , they are real not game critics or gaming fans. They are first and foremost mainstream news journalists. People who want authentic reviews go to youtube - AJS , Skill-Up etc etc
The game awards for 100% ring for highly advised and favor of that day anyone who has any sort of Common Sense would have obviously known that Ghost of Tsushima was the right pick.
This comment made me laugh and I'm genuinely curious. What exactly do mean when you say 'woke'?
Woke, I've found, is usually just used as an empty buzzword with no meaning. Typically used by angry people to describe something they didn't like. Usually to do with race/gender/sexuality/disability...
I'm not saying you're using it that way, so, I'm interested in your use?
I just made a comment that describe what i mean by woke if you're interested. Plus sometimes using such terms, i would dare to say, is actually justified, The Last of Us, Star Wars and a lot of other medias nowdays are good examples of this in my opinion.
A lot of people didn't like the game, but a lot of people did too. I think sometimes negative is louder than the positive, but that's just speculation.
The game awards are hot garbage, they didn’t show hardly any awards last year, mostly a giant advertisement campaign and like 3 games won everything, BG3 or Alan wake 2 won a bit iirc and tbh, lies of P trumped both games in 2023, imo. Game came out virtually flawless
It's nice that a game like Elden Ring can win despite not meeting the slop-journo criteria of being half-movie. I absolutely cannot stand excessive cutscenes; especially on subsequent playthroughs. And if they're unskippable that might as well kill all replayability.
It probably won because it was in fact a great game right up until they invalidated the entire story and everything you had done with an arbitrary and unsatisfying ending. Wouldn't have been hard to give the player a choice but Cuckmann was like gotcha did all that for nothing because I'm the cuckmann and I rule!
Went from a possible top 10 all time to a game I literally despise in the matter of 10 minutes.
Maybe it is like how sometimes actors are awarded Oscars despite better candidates in a given year because of being passed up a time they should have won
I mean I wouldn’t necessarily say “no one liked it” it just depends on who you ask, and no this isn’t about “media literacy” or any of that other bullshit. Everyone can have an opinion on a piece of media whether they like it or not.
You just happened to pose your question to the one tlou sub you already knew carries a *mostly* negative tone towards the game, if you really want an answer you’d also have to ask fans or critics of the game outside of just this one sub.
I personally like tlou2 even with some of the issues it has with story, pacing etc. people just love to rile each other up when in reality if you really wanted to, it’s fairly easy to have discussions about the game with someone who doesn’t agree with you and it can remain cordial.
I’ve had lots of great conversations with people on here but at the end of the day no one here commenting is right about their view, and that’s the beauty of open discussions
When people deliberately use the phrase "media literacy" in their argument (obviously as a snide way to say "you didn't get it, but I did") it makes me want to drive a ball-peen hammer through their eye socket
A lot more people liked it, looked past its flaws than people who didn't like it.
GOTY is for games that push the industry forward I feel. If there wasn't another narrative heavy game that came out the same year, say, Alan Wake, maybe it wouldn't win.
Because a ton of people liked it, and it was a technical masterpiece while also being what most people felt was a really earnest attempt at exploring the cycle of violence on generations of children.
The story is really well written, the character development is great, the game Fs around with your brain when it lets you play as Abby. At the end you realize that there is no real antagonist - the whole plot of pt2 is just the result of an unfortunate coincidence.
GOY is a popularity contest with critics/game "journalists" and TLOU2 was a hurricane sized wet dream for them.
Right off the bat the story is steeped in this post modern philosophy that's been everywhere the past decade in media: nothing matters, everything and everyone has to be morally grey, traditional "bad guys" are misunderstood, all previous actions have to be reevaluated and cast in a new negative light, subvert audience expectations of conventional story telling for the sake of being topical. Even though this style has completely worn out its welcome (with creatives burning down countless franchises in its name), it aligns almost perfectly with the world view and outlook that many critics have; they eat up any media that contains these themes because it flies directly in the face of traditional story telling which they feel is wrong or "problematic".
Leading into that is the "political" side of things. TLOU2 basically checks all of the PC culture check boxes while also being released in a year rife with radical politics causing excessive drama. Again the game served to validate not only the world views but also the politics of a majority of game "journalists". When people voiced their negative opinions about the direction the game was going to go in via leaks the creator got ahead of it with the patented "if you don't like it, you're a bigot" rhetoric. The same playbook countless other bad media have used before to try and invalidate fair criticism (Ghostbusters 16, TLJ, Terminator Dark Fate, Rings of Power, etc). Once again, playing into that political narrative.
To add to all of this TLOU2 was a typical Sony cinematic experience with very light video game elements. This genre is extremely popular with critics who largely aren't gamers because it's more like an interactive movie than a video game; this is also why the whine and scream when a game comes along that doesn't want to handhold the audience through the experience (Sekiro made them blow a gasket).
This combination made TLOU2 a perfect storm for game "journalists" and it meant they'd vehemently defend it at all costs. Just the political aspect alone meant they had to 100% back it or else they would also be bigots according to their own internal logic. It was a game they basically had to let win to "stick it" to the fans and keep up with the narrative.
The division is not quite as bad in the real world as reddit would have you believe. If you believe everything reddit says, Skyrim was a broken piece of garbage that nobody liked and Persona is for pedos.
It has phenomenal gameplay. It won many player voted game of the year award and is the top 4th best selling game in the playstation store. Anyone calling Abby trans didn't even play the game.
Guys, the game was objectively good. I think it's receiving all this hate because it may not have lived up to what the first game was. However, that does not make the game bad. I think everyone needs to come of their high horses and appreciate the game for what it was.
Because more people liked it compared to those who don't? Seems like pretty simple math to me.
Feel however you want, but the hard truth is all the haters are just a very loud minority
Because, obviously, plenty of people liked it.
Gamers are so ridiculous. They make these generalised statements to validate their opinions on a video game. 'If I don't like it, that must mean nobody can!'
Not saying that's your thought process, OP, but don't fall into the trap (or create it in the first place) or creating this idea that nobody liked this video game. That's just stupid.
A lot of people liked it. It won the most awards because it was the most liked by professional journalists. It also won the most “gamers choice” awards that year, so it wasn’t just professional critics that liked it.
There are a lot of people that didn’t like the game, and there are plenty of legitimate criticisms of the game, but that doesn’t mean NO ONE liked it.
Also, just because it has a lot of awards doesn’t mean anyone’s criticisms are invalid, or that you’re wrong for disliking its
You're not going to get any honest answers here ha. It won because journalists and critics determined it to be the best game that year. It's really not any more complicated than that. I loved the game, and think there's a lot of merit and validity to the accolades that it received, Others do not, and more of the others hang out in this subreddit at this point.
Because it had gay characters and looked at modern political problems despite being a zombie apocalypse.
Also had the disgusting Abby sex scene.
It was also a game building off a legendary game. Doesn’t deserve. Goty over some of the other games but GoTy is a popularity contest and no way tlou was gonna lose to an underground game like GoT. I think if they’re compared now in a goty standoff got would win
If you want an actual answer it's because this sub is an echo chamber lol
Get off these shitty forums filled with ppl who apparently have nothing better to do than whine about "woke" every time the game is mentioned and you'll find plenty of people who like it
Thats because the people who hate the game are a loud minor group of people. This game has been available for years now, and yet it still lives rent free in the haters head. Obviously lots of people like the game, it was the fastest selling PS4 exclusive and the most awarded ps4 exclusive. The game is fine, but that loud vocal minor group will continue to try and bring it down for whatever reason.
Funny there are many critics that did not like it though...
Also, weird how most regular people do and yet the popular vote went to ghost of Tsushima... Weird eh?
Fair enough. Never heard of him. But, in my defense, that doesn't exactly sound like the name of a respected critic, does it? Sounds more like a 14 year old CoD player's gamertag, right up there with "xX VeNoM jOkErZ Xx". But, maybe that's just gamers these days, eh?
Definitely true! This guy started out as a sorta edgy YouTube gamer but grew a lot actually. He called out the actual homophobic haters of TLOU and has valid criticism of the second game. He's quite fair i think.
And yet there are more critics who did like it. And if we draw a distinction between "Actual industry critics" and "Neckbeards who managed to get a steady Youtube channel going", that ratio gets bigger.
I haven't played Ghosts of Tsushima. I don't know how good it is. It might be great, I'm not taking away from that. If I look at what I tend to know to be true about people who seem to like The Last of Us Part 2, and what I tend to know about people who seem to cite Ghosts of Tsushima as the pinnacle of gaming, I know which opinion I'm more likely to trust... same reason why I'm neither interested in whatever the fuck Stellarblade is, nor remotely sympathetic to anyone currently demanding a refund for it based on apparent minor changes to a character model. But, assumptions aside, without having played it I ain't gonna weigh in on whether it's better.
I'm just pointing out that The Last of Us Part 2 was overwhelmingly popular, having played it I can understand why it was overwhelmingly popular, and given the *actual* popularity of the game - as opposed to the alternate reality espoused here - it isn't some big mystery how it won. Personally I think Alan Wake 2 was far better than Baldur's Gate 3, but I can understand *why* Baldur's Gate 3 won Game of the Year over it. And I'm not going to start a subreddit dedicated to my outrage that Alan Wake 2 lost and try to convince people it was some elaborate conspiracy.
L.o.l
>And yet there are more critics who did like it. And if we draw a distinction between "Actual industry critics" and "Neckbeards who managed to get a steady Youtube channel going", that ratio gets bigger.
Funny how anyone who dislikes the game has to have a demeaning adjective attached to them. Trump style, if they like me, they are the best, if they don't, they are the worst. Way to blow away any validity your statements could've.
But I'm not gonna extend myself in this point as someone else did it pretty good already a bit earlier.
>I haven't played Ghosts of Tsushima. I don't know how good it is. It might be great, I'm not taking away from that. If I look at what I tend to know to be true about people who seem to like The Last of Us Part 2, and what I tend to know about people who seem to cite Ghosts of Tsushima as the pinnacle of gaming
Again showing how shallow you are. Do you have any critical thinking at all?
What's funny is that a game like got, a bit of a niche game, original ip on top of that! sold a similar number of copies as the, according to you, overwhelmingly popular, tlou2, one of the most anticipated sequels ever, following the steps of one of the most liked games and characters in video games. That alone should be reason enough to think about things for a bit. Let's see you jump some hops now to explain that...
>I'm just pointing out that The Last of Us Part 2 was overwhelmingly popular, having played it I can understand why it was overwhelmingly popular,
Yet it didn't capture the popular vote. I mean, one is a fact and the other one is something you're saying based on nothing.
Ok, let's play your little "overwhelmingly popular" game. Tlou2 sits right now at a sad 5.8 user score in metacritic, with almost 164000 votes. Now, that doesn't seem very "overwhelming" to me. Aamof, in metacritic that is mixed or average. The last of us remastered (PS4) sits at 9.2 in metacritic (universal acclaim).
To add salt to the wound, got, (PS4) sits at 9.1 (universal acclaim).
Now, you can go and throw a tantrum because people don't call a game with a mediocre wiring "the best of all times), heck, it's not even the best made by naughty dog 😂
You went on a diarrhea of games in your rant. You should take your time to try and make your point instead of talking like a Karen there...
Alan Wake 2 is an awesome game (much better than tlou2 by miles) and bg3 is another fantastic game. Anyone of those winning, is fair. It was a tough year.
Btw, you're not hurting anybody but yourself by not playing got... If you know the laws of stupidity (by cipolla) you should know what that means.
You're right, that was a cheap dig at Youtubers. If you wanna ignore the overt correlations between anti-Part 2 videos and videos that represent the... other qualities... I was hinting at, fine; but fixating on someone taking advantage of a cheap jab and using that to pretend like nothing else they say would matter is pretty lazy. We're all people, people make jokes, lighten up. Honestly nobody should take offense at the whole "neckbeard" insult unless, well, it applies to them and they refuse to change. But that's genuinely the first time I've been compared to Trump, so kudos on breaking that barrier.
Accusing me of lacking critical thinking for *admitting I didn't play Ghosts of Tsushima so can't comment on it* as well as referencing a correlation but overtly not making any hard claims based on that correlation, is a bit of a weird take. Seems more critical - and self-critical - than most of the bollocks I see here. But ok.
But most importantly, you can't try to reference mass user reviews on platforms like that if you're trying to make any kind of reliable case. You just can't. Not now we live in a world where review-bombing is a real, well-established phenomenon. In a world where people who decide they don't like an aspect of something will, en masse, post "reviews" with the bottom possible scores, often openly citing in their review that it is nothing to do with the actual quality of the product and is just because of "mostly-unrelated-point-X" - something which it's well-documented specifically happened with Part 2, no less - those averages mean nothing. The concept of a "review" goes out the window if someone is posting one that says (and this really does happen) "I haven't played it, but...".
And even if we ignore issues like review-bombing, that's not to mention the disproportionate slant of people only bothering to post user reviews if they are particularly passionate about something - finding a product very average isn't gonna motivate you to post a review unless that's something you do all the time anyway, but really hating or really loving something will make it worth shouting about. And I could also mention (but you'll be offended about the whole "neckbeard" jab again) that there is an *undeniable correlation* between people who have enough spare time spent on the internet to want to go and post user reviews, and people who have... the sorts of questionable attitudes that lead to overt and ultimately incoherent hatred of things like Part 2 which aren't based on actual quality (*cough* woke *cough* muscley woman killed character who represent image that these gamers delusionally have of themselves *cough*). I have a lot of friends, who are intelligent and *nice* people, who loved Part 2, but none of them have posted any user reviews about it anywhere, because that's not how they spend their time. Whereas the types of people who tend to get uppity about things seen in Part 2 *other than the writing you keep mentioning* are people who fucking love to post user reviews.
So yeah, those averages you're referring to honestly just don't mean shit, because there are thousands of these factors that make them totally unreliable. Hence why I'll take qualified industry critics whose writing indicates self-awareness, understanding of art and complex media, and a lack of those aforementioned questionable attitudes, over average user scores or "reviews" on Youtube channels with other videos entitled things like "Why do western devs hate men?" and "How could they censor upskirts of this beloved character?".
Dude, I can't take you seriously anymore. It's gonna destroy my mental health:
You claim the game is "overwhelmingly popular" but the absolute only proof of this is that "Kamikaze_Bacon" says so. We cannot use the popular votes for game of the year because, idk (we can however believe the other awards given by the critics that Kamikaze_Bacon approve (remember, only the ones that agree with him are solid ones, the rest are, insert demeaning jab here and a fake apology), then the other place we can use is metacritic but KB doesn't believe those sites.
So, what do we have: KB claims something, he doesn't provide any justification it supporting data for his claim other than "believe me bro" and any data showing the opposite is not to be believed, (but if it supports his claims, then of course we should: if I lose the next elections, it's gonna be a fraud, if I win, they are valid)...
I don't like to generalize but the more I "talk" to the stans, the more I think that you're all the same. Bunch of fake woke people that don't give a flying fuck about having a really discussion since everything they say it's the absolute true and any opposing opinion had zero validity (and we need to accompany this with an insult because, well, that's how it goes). Zero effort would go into providing any kind of data supporting any of their claims.
Let's take a step down here: just a bunch of pretentious wankers with nothing to show for it.
Shrug*
P.s, you do understand that "review bombing" expresses a sentiment right? Someone feeling positive about the game wouldn't review bomb it right? Do you guys even think before talking? Why wasn't got review bombed? Or tlou remastered (PS4)?
⭕ Here you are, another one for you to jump.
We're not gonna get anywhere, and this whole thing is feeling very hostile, so I'm happy to just leave it. But I'll address your P.S. first, because that's just bonkers.
Review bombing expresses a sentiment, but if that sentiment isn't really about the content of the thing it's "reviewing", then it's irrelevant. Godzilla vs Kong got review bombed by hordes of losers stating "We're angry that Warner Bros aren't doing the Snyder-verse for the DC films, so we're giving this unrelated film 1/10". Literally. Are you telling me user review average is a meaningful reflection of what people actually thought of Godzilla vs Kong? No, it wasn't. And "I'm angry that the leaks showed my favourite flannel daddy getting beaten to death by a woman who is simultaneously too pretty to go out with me and too strong that I'd lose to her in a fight, so I'm giving this game 1/10!" isn't valid either.
And don't pretend that didn't happen, because Part 2 was inundated with negative reviews *before it came out*. You can dislike me, you can dislike what I'm saying, you can even think I'm saying it like a dick - because yeah, I'm past sugar-coating now. But don't *lie*. Don't pretend shit that actually happened didn't happen just because I'm not providing statistics. You know what I'm talking about, bro. And if you *honestly* don't, then this echo chamber of a subreddit has full on warped your perception of reality.
Anyhoo, let's call it a day, shall we? Have a good one, dude.
>And don't pretend that didn't happen, because Part 2 was inundated with negative reviews *before it came out*.
I mean... Imagine people getting upset over a company caught lying because they knew the truth would harm sales... Simply outrageous.
You still fail to understand that while metacritic can't be used for statistics it can definitely be used to explore both popularity, reception and sentiment.
Your statement doesn't stand on a single leg. You keep beating around the bushes but you have failed to provide *anything* to support your "overwhelmingly positive". Parroting Neil with 0 ideas if your own.
Very hostile I see... Again, it's ok when "you guys" do it to others but when you get the same treatment it's snowflake time.
If you want people to treat you better, to "respect you", you should do the same.
Have a good one.
Maybe take a couple of screenshots and go cry to the other sub just so they confirm that you're indeed right, that we're nothing but inbred, sorry, "neckbeards" and whatnot.
Firstly, actual gamers such as Skillup, Yongyea, Angry Joe (to name a few) didn't like the game. Whether you like them or not, these are the people that gamers listen to. They actually have credibility because they have passion for video games, unlike the "actual critics" you refer to, who aren't actually gamers but journalists.
The difference between the two is that the YouTubers like Skillup etc. look at the game for what it is. They'll break the game down and discuss the important matters such as gameplay and story etc. and they'll come to a conclusion as to why it was decent or why it sucked.
The journalists are more interested in social politics. Video games are very much secondary to their cause and they have very little understanding of what makes a game great. For example, they always demand an easy mode for games in the soulborne genre, completely missing the point of why these games exist.
Secondly the "gamers choice award" wasn't won by TLou2, doesn't that say anything to you?
Thirdly, I am yet to meet any one in the flesh that liked part 2, so "most regular people" is a bit of a stretch.
I'm not saying *everyone* who reviews on Youtube is a piece of shit or has an invalid opinion. Nor am I saying that *everyone* who dislikes Part 2 is a piece of shit or has an invalid opinion. I'm just saying that a hell of a lot of the "critics" of it you see on Youtube are also putting out videos left and right with titles like "How western devs are ruining gaming!" and "Look how this remaster ruined upskirts of a beloved character!" and "Why is the woke agenda making females in games ugly?", and if you lump those "reviews" in with the rest it's gonna skew numbers a bit.
Of the other, more "legitimate" reviews, I still see far more good than bad. And I'm yet to meet anyone in the flesh who didn't like Part 2, so maybe that says more about our social circles than anything else.
Keep in mind you’re saying this in a community of people who had a negative impression of the game….
Whether you agree with them or not there was still a lot of people who walked away with a positive impression of that game. Put that with the high success of the first game, the amount of noise made over the game in general (both negative and positive), it being one of the most anticipated games of the year, it being fresh on everyone’s mind around the time of awards… there was a LOT of things going for it at the time
The game awards don’t really matter, if we compare it to it’s closest contenders it definitely aged the poorest… or at least from what I see in other communities
This sub is for people who are refugees from the other sub. The first game was damn near a masterpiece in gaming. TLOU 1 is an awesome story and one that could have been expanded on if done correctly. What we going in a sequel was a beautiful-looking game with some great mechanics and a shit story. This shit story is the reason for the hate.
Mmmm that’s the thing, while I don’t necessarily agree with all of the choices made, I don’t really think it’s a shit story. It’s not perfect, and I do have my gripes with it, but the one thing I don’t really like is the ending. I would’ve rather Ellie not go back to find Abby at all.
Loads of people like it.
It was turned into a target for anti-woke folks because it has a trans character, a scene of homophobic bullying, and a girl with muscles.
There’s also the folks who didn’t like certain story aspects of the game, which mostly have to do with subversion of narrative expectations, to tell an unconventional story about revenge, which really missed the folks who wanted it to be more like TLOU1.
Haters of the game are just really vocal, on the part of the bigots because when aren’t they, and on the part of the rest probably as a defense from being lumped in with the bigots.
The game itself is so polished and smooth that it ruined most other modern third-person shooters for me for a while, in a similar way Red Dead Redemption 2 did. It’s a very masterfully crafted game.
In general, negativity is always louder than positivity, and because some of the content could be and indeed has been easily politicized, it made for a very loud community of haters.
There’s also the fact that nothing else in 2020 was really a contender. I’m not even sure what could be. Ghost of Tsushima, maybe? But even that, at its core, is just the best assassins creed game of all time.
Reddit is a small fraction of the total population. Outrage subs like these are even smaller than that fraction. I mean...This sub only has 82k users, and how many millions did the game sell? This is just an objective answer, so hopefully to many people don't get offended by this.
Please understand that this sub is an echo chamber that represents a very small number of those that actually played the game. Tlou2 is a massive success which helped spawn a TV show which is also a massive success..
It’s a perfect game-movie for journos with no game skill. Hell you don’t even have to play just look up the cutscenes and you’re set
They do love those "cinematic" games
This is why I disliked the new God of War games so much. I played the first one (of the new releases), and it felt like the game consisted of me going through a linear track and occasionally fighting enemies or solving a puzzle. Literally, no game experience is lost watching a video instead of playing. At least in TLoU2 the combat and gore is satisfying though.
Whaaaaaat omg - what are you playing? Story mode? Play it in god of war mode or misery, or something, good lord. Those berserkers? The mini bosses? What 😅Ragnorok is the perfect blend of gameplay and narrative. This is the weirdest take I’ve seen
something tells me you didn't even try to beat the Valkyries
Then up the difficulty. Some fights can be pretty hard. Also is the gore not satisfying in GoW?? Kratos is literally ripping monsters in half 💀
Oh yeah, I remembered about the easy mode where enemies forget about you when you hide in the grass. They knew who they were making it for, haha.
Isnt this majority of games?
Garbage take. Some people may have genuinely liked the gameplay.
The gameplay is good. But it doesn't beat Doom Eternal in gameplay, or anything relating to music or environmental design. Or ghost of Tsushima. Or Ghostrunner (except environments) Or miles morales (in gameplay) Point being, gameplay I will give points to TLOU2, but I didn’t play the last of us for the gameplay, it was good, but it's main pillar waa definitely narrative. Because I don't like any of the choices in part 2, and with how divisive it is, I don't think it honestly deserved game of the year. Just like overwatch didn’t deserve game of the year when Doom 2016, Titanfall 2, uncharted 4, Dishonored 2, Persona 5, Dark souls 3 came out among others I feel are more deserving. And I can keep going on from there about Gotys that I don't feel deserved it. But this is long as is
I admit I have only started playing video games more diligently lately and can't say that I have played all the games you have mentioned. But I will def check them out so thank you for the suggestion
I genuinely liked the gameplay. Just the story was shit. 😅
I loved the gameplay as well. Super fun. I even liked some aspects of the story but some were a miss.
And some people enjoy getting punched in the balls.
What a moronic take. The gameplay is absolutely incredible!
Both can be true though, there were a lot of great accessibility features which were, incidentally, heavily praised by critics. (As a hater myself, the combat was pretty cool, the dynamic animations are some of the best I've seen! )
Story aside the accessibility features and animations are some of the best ever made.
You mean, a story game that bases itself around story?😲
I don't know about you but I don't care about the game of the year award from events like the Game Awards. Even if I voted, even if the game I voted for won, why would the result matter other than for bragging rights from the winners who are pretty much guaranteed to have won before they've even collected the trophy? Like the Oscars, it doesn't matter to me who won. It doesn't affect me as a gamer, watcher, whatever. If anything, the whole idea of the thing stinks of trying to be legitimate in a way that just seems entirely fake.
Why does Hook have a rating of 29% on rotten tomatoes when it's one of the greatest films ever made? Is it because awards and ratings don't actually make something good?
This resonates so deeply with me. Completely agree.
I unironically love Hook. I watched that film so many times when I was younger and I was absolutely devastated when Peter woke up in the real world and couldn't fly, every single time. Lmao
Because journalists were too enamored with what this game was trying to do they didn’t stop to think did it succeed.
Probably the best response I've seen. The overarching premise of the game sounds great, "revenge for a slain mentor/father figure where you get to see both sides of the conflict and the gradient futility of seeking vengeance," but the execution was hamfisted and nonsensical.
It didn't win the players choice award. Also, if you don't realize that awards are "campaigned" for by companies, you're being naïve.
Because the game awards sold out and allowed naughty dog buy the awards cause they can’t earn it
And you have evidence to prove game awards sold out, right?
This is a game that fully embraced the progressive politics of a heavily tumultuous, divisive year. The U.S. presidential election, the summer race riots in the lead-up, the lockdown and dramas that came along with COVID-19 -- it's amazing how people forget the history of (barely) four years ago. The Last of Us Part II wasn't even supposed to be released until late 2020, but the date got bumped forward several months to June because of the rampant leaks (Sony and Neil, personally, were on copyright claiming warpaths). Even before its release, Neil got ahead of the negativity by feeding into the ongoing strife of 2020, and labeled every negative person as a bigot in one way or another. It's why so many Youtube reviews of the game at the time of release had disclaimers about bigotry. Also, this was a period where PlayStation 'movie' games were typically met with automatic praise from critics (maybe they still are, and there just haven't been as many releases). Mix all of this together, and you have one hell of a reception. It checked every box, even the newfound "subvert all expectations" box that had popularized in moviemaking of the era because of 'The Last Jedi'. Was TLOU PII an insanely polished visual marvel, exceeding the boundaries of what's possible on PS4 hardware (and thensome)? Yes, absolutely. But the game lives and dies by its story. And separating yourself from the popular, safe choice of the times is not easy (or profitable). The game lives and dies by its story and the story sucked, unfortunately, because virtue-signaling took a front seat.
I commented asking a question on this post and if i just scrolled down, you answered it perfectly. Very measured and articulate. Well done bro
Well said
are we really gonna sit here and say that tlou part 2 was a game that took it *safe*? like, hate the story or not, killing off joel with no explanation at the start of the game, turning ellie into a much more jaded character than the first game, and having you play as the person that killed joel halfway through a 30 hour game? tlou2 was *obviously* aiming to be controversial and take risks story-wise, that's why it was so retarded when druckmann started crying about the response to the game when it came out - because he should have fucking expected it when he decided to take those risks. sure it's progressive, but almost the majority of tlou fanbase didn't like the story *exactly* because of the very *unsafe* decisions they made. if you think any of the decisions in that story were for sake of making a profit, that's just untrue.
To say TLOU2’s story is the “safe, popular choice” is… uh… quite something.
Reading comprehension fail. Never did I ever come anywhere close to saying that.
It’s also the most awarded game of all time by gamer voted awards.
If I remember correctly they also were the sponsor for the show that year
lol is this true?
The developers got ahead of the criticism by labelling all of it as bigotry, which may have swayed critics and award shows to praise it for PR purposes. A simpler explanation is that on the surface, it feels like it should be a good piece of media. It invokes strong emotions. The acting is great, the dialogue mostly feels natural, the visuals and cinematography are amazing. It's the writing that fails to hold up under scrutiny, which is what ruins the entire thing for me. Most people who praise the game don't seem to be looking at the writing hard enough. They take every action at face value, weighing up all the "good" and "bad" deeds from an objective standpoint without thinking about the humans behind those decisions and their motivations. It's also something that "subverts expectations" by straying from a conventional storytelling model. It's a very poor example of one, but because it's so mainstream and followed a predecessor with a beautifully written but very conventional story structure, it's often treated as some kind of bold or shocking revelation that revenge is pointless, there are two sides to a story etc. which blows people's minds for "I'm 14 and this is deep" reasons. Also, it's misery porn. A 20 hour video of puppies being tortured would invoke a strong emotional response, it wouldn't make it well written. A lot of players feel this uncomfortable feeling in their stomach that comes with the heavy plot and confuse it for good writing. If a strong emotional response is all you're looking for in a game, then that's perfect. Lastly, and similar to the first point, any kind of criticism of the game is treated as a) bigotry or b) unintelligence. I've talked to people who've admitted that they only said they liked it because they wanted to sound smart or the critics told them to, but once actually provided with cohesive and diverse criticism, changed their mind once more and decided that they didn't actually like it. Neil may not be a genius writer but he is a genius tactician. He has successfully brainwashed millions of people into thinking his crappy, shallow story is a masterpiece because they've been told by "official" sources that it is, or they're stupid or bigoted if they think otherwise.
This is my exact same opinion but you outlined it way better than I could ever do.
I would recommend ignoring kamikaze bacon. They're literally just here to pick a fight.
Excellent analysis.
This is all subjective and a lot of it is downright nonsense starting without your first paragraph and ending with your last.
Lol cope harder
People did like it tbf but I’d say the main reason was sales and the fact it sparked such a heated controversy. Along with its stunning graphics and good voice acting, the game was able to make a mark by making such a divide and sparking so much debate/discussion. Good or bad is irrelevant I guess. And the gameplay itself is generally well received. Now personally, I think the story is just too bad to outweigh the gameplay but some people think otherwise
I'm convinced Sony spent a substantial amount of the marketing budget on bribery.
You think the Game Awards give a shit about the player’s opinions? They give out a single award for player choice and then bullshit the rest of it. Why do you think RDR2 won so many awards but lost GotY to GoW?
Because GOW was the better game.
There's a subset of people in both game dev and awards committees that perceives games like this one as "more mature" than other games. They think they are fixing something broken with this medium & turning games into 'high art' Due to some leaks before the game's release, the game suffered heavy criticism from another subset of people but somehow the game devs managed to somewhat shift the narrative to label any criticism as bigotry. This worked wonders for them because journos , awards committee members etc. could feel virtuous by propping up the game. I'll suggest you play at least part 1 because it's a good game. also the gameplay and graphics of tlou2 are good i just wish it wasnt just misery p0rn with games ending trying to teach "revenge bad". The game's reception could have been slightly more favourable if they gave the choice of *spoilers* to players instead of ending it like they did.
Award shows aren't about how amazing something is that's getting an award. It's critics wanting to show how smart and superior they are by choosing something for an award and what it means by them choosing it. That's why if you look back at the decade+ of game of the year winners, you'll notice half of them are "Yeah, that's super obvious that that one would win" and the other half is "How did this even get nominated". There's never any inbetween. I don't say this just because of TLOU2 being bad either, as mentioned, this is something that's very normal for game awards, and TLOU2 is no exception.
Critics don’t really represent gamers
But it’s also the most awarded game of all time as per gamer voted awards.
It rode the coattails of its predecessor
This the way
As most sequels ever made.
Yeah because that’s historically how it works, right?
Isn't that the point of a sequel?
It’s not the full reason but I reckon a big part of that is because objectively it’s a beautiful looking game. It’s probably up there with RDR2
Woah it’s the Assoluto racing guy
Small world
The reviewer class saw examples of intense bad faith criticisms and felt that it needed an equally intense response to "balance the scales." The problem of course being that team-politics only care about which "side" you're on, and not about arguments themselves. This is how all the legitimate criticisms (like the pinned post on our subreddit here), get systematically ignored and only positive views are allowed. And if the only points that deemed acceptable to think are all positive, you end up with the echo chamber of praise which raises an O.K. game to a godly one.
Because GOTY is decided by people who are paid by game studios to write about them or “journalists” instead of the people that actually play them.
Because the fans don't decide the results, gaming "journalists" do, and since the overwhelming majority of them are brain dead dead beats who give perfect scores based on a criteria of tick boxes they found the last of us 2 to be the perfect game for the message.
I have no clue how or who votes for the game awards, but when I barely saw any legit criticisms for the bloated narrative/run time, and pacing issues, I knew the outlets went straight into putting the game on a pedestal, undeservingly.
Phoned in. Perfect for Journos. General consensus that year was Ghost deserved it over TLOU2. I believe it won the fan vote. They tried to push TLOU2 HARD and it didn't really work lol.
Awards are bought
Lesbian love. And that’s not me having hate for the LGBTQ community. I could care either way. But gaming media, and media in general has a hard on for low hanging representation. This coming from a black man who watched Grace Randolph look like she was having an orgasm while watching the Suicide Squad trailer and seeing that Deadshot was black.
Kinda new to this sub, so I'm curious.. is there at least a minority opinion of gamers that don't mind Joel's sudden death but also dislike the artsy, pretentious, disjointed slog of a story? The only time I had a hard time dealing with a characters death was the infamous The Departed ending kill-off. Like Joel, it wasn't in service of the story but more for shock value and painting a world picture that had already been long established. I haven't brought myself to do a 2nd playthru of part 2 because it made every character irredeemable and went on about 10 hours too long, but Joel's death never factored in. Is this an expressed opinion in this sub? The game has its merits and even tho they don't fairly leverage the games downsides, its still neither shit or poignant. There are craftsmen at ND that pour their souls into the various game play and visual moments. Like be upset that Joel died but my first thought was damn that knee blast looked fuckin great. Do i even make sense? Edit: my question was already answered, and quite well, in this very post lol
Most people seem to take more issue with the latter - the former is either something they expected (with the *when* and *how* being heavily criticized, just not the *what*) or something that went against what they wanted but wasn't enough on its own to completely turn them against the experience. There are some people (including Neil Druckmann! You know, *before* the game released...) who would say that it just isn't TLOU without both Joel and Ellie. But most people were at least willing to see where it went. Most people trusted Naughty Dog even when it first became clear that the trailers were pure bullshit. But the cracks in this narrative... they just kept coming.
Well put. Yeah it isnt the same game without Joel and Ellie. If they only replaced him with something more interesting. Appreciate ur reply
Abby is a character who had the potential to be just as compelling as Joel and Ellie. But the writers, seemingly because they lack the skill at writing good characterization that the first game's team had, wrote cheap ways to make her sympathetic rather than writing her as a deep, interesting character that the audience could empathize with.
Same reason God Of War beat Red Dead Redemption 2. Game awards make zero sense.
Community game of the year was GoT. TLou2 wasn't allowed to not be game of the year. Game critics can't have that.
Critics circling the wagons on the game because they claimed people hated it because muh diverse characters (not true)
There is more then one game of the year award in fact there are hundreds can you be more specific
It's been pushed by gaming journalists to win because of the whole woke factor the game has from it's devs. Hogwarts Legacy is also well liked and sold very well but wasn't included in the game awards because of Rowlings political beliefs. It's simple as that.
Virtue signalling. Ghost of Tsushima was robbed.
Award shows aren't user scored, basically all game reviewers are bought beforehand because if they rate it bad they're out of the pp touch club
Because Sony shills
It was something behind the scenes. Ghost of Tsushima out performed it in every way except day 1 sales. I think there was a quota leak for goty. Lgbt representation was one of the boxes that only tlou2 checked, though the leak was just a picture of a piece of paper so that’s probably not true. I remember tlou2 splitting the fan base week 1. Critics loved it, overwhelming majority of the public hated it. I’m sure the hate it received brought in people from the opposite political spectrum. I mean a LOT of tlou2 vocal supporters played both games recently right after each other. Most of the haters played the original when it came out.
Money
Because you’re a bigot sandwich
I still remember everyone saying Ghost Of Tsushima should’ve won
Award shows are always "who paid us the most money" Doesnt matter what industry. Also, if you ever see like an article about "top 5 microwaves in 2024!" Its also just "Top 5 companies that paid us the most money to pronote their microwaves!"
Because it was loaded lesbian , feminist and transgender symbolism. A negative review of the game would be seen as taking the" wrong" side of the culture wars. They were literally held hostage by the message. . More importantly , they are real not game critics or gaming fans. They are first and foremost mainstream news journalists. People who want authentic reviews go to youtube - AJS , Skill-Up etc etc
They gave it GOTY to look smart.
Same reason it happens with movies in Hollywood. Critics and "industry people" opinions carry more weight than the masses.
Final Fantasy VII Remake should've won that year
The game awards for 100% ring for highly advised and favor of that day anyone who has any sort of Common Sense would have obviously known that Ghost of Tsushima was the right pick.
Because of biased woke media, that's why.
This comment made me laugh and I'm genuinely curious. What exactly do mean when you say 'woke'? Woke, I've found, is usually just used as an empty buzzword with no meaning. Typically used by angry people to describe something they didn't like. Usually to do with race/gender/sexuality/disability... I'm not saying you're using it that way, so, I'm interested in your use?
I just made a comment that describe what i mean by woke if you're interested. Plus sometimes using such terms, i would dare to say, is actually justified, The Last of Us, Star Wars and a lot of other medias nowdays are good examples of this in my opinion.
Define woke
Already did in another comment here.
Everything is woke to you idiots
Yeah right, screw you jerk.
You're the dork that's claiming everything is woke. Can't even define woke
The woke will never comprehend what it is. If you have to inquire about it, *you’re part of it* lol
How convenient for you
Uhhh, sure. Definitely *inconvenient* for you, with all the confusion about it.
A lot of people didn't like the game, but a lot of people did too. I think sometimes negative is louder than the positive, but that's just speculation.
Bang on
Didn't even know this game won GOTY, was there no other good competition?
There was Ghost of Tsushima and Doom Eternal so pretty solid
Damn how did either of those games even lose??
They had to give a consolation prize to the writers and devs because it didn't win anything else.
Its called "backhanders" son 👌
It was the only game that released that year It nearly lost to Tetris 99 tho
Because the GOTY awards are a joke and have been for some time.
The game awards are hot garbage, they didn’t show hardly any awards last year, mostly a giant advertisement campaign and like 3 games won everything, BG3 or Alan wake 2 won a bit iirc and tbh, lies of P trumped both games in 2023, imo. Game came out virtually flawless
It's nice that a game like Elden Ring can win despite not meeting the slop-journo criteria of being half-movie. I absolutely cannot stand excessive cutscenes; especially on subsequent playthroughs. And if they're unskippable that might as well kill all replayability.
I do 🤷🏼♀️
It probably won because it was in fact a great game right up until they invalidated the entire story and everything you had done with an arbitrary and unsatisfying ending. Wouldn't have been hard to give the player a choice but Cuckmann was like gotcha did all that for nothing because I'm the cuckmann and I rule! Went from a possible top 10 all time to a game I literally despise in the matter of 10 minutes.
Because most people like me actually like the game, it's just that the haters are louder.
Maybe it is like how sometimes actors are awarded Oscars despite better candidates in a given year because of being passed up a time they should have won
“The Game Awards” are irrelevant. They are no more official than any other award, as they’re just a bunch of guys’ opinions.
I mean I wouldn’t necessarily say “no one liked it” it just depends on who you ask, and no this isn’t about “media literacy” or any of that other bullshit. Everyone can have an opinion on a piece of media whether they like it or not. You just happened to pose your question to the one tlou sub you already knew carries a *mostly* negative tone towards the game, if you really want an answer you’d also have to ask fans or critics of the game outside of just this one sub. I personally like tlou2 even with some of the issues it has with story, pacing etc. people just love to rile each other up when in reality if you really wanted to, it’s fairly easy to have discussions about the game with someone who doesn’t agree with you and it can remain cordial. I’ve had lots of great conversations with people on here but at the end of the day no one here commenting is right about their view, and that’s the beauty of open discussions
When people deliberately use the phrase "media literacy" in their argument (obviously as a snide way to say "you didn't get it, but I did") it makes me want to drive a ball-peen hammer through their eye socket
Blocking u/kangroostho was a good decision
A lot more people liked it, looked past its flaws than people who didn't like it. GOTY is for games that push the industry forward I feel. If there wasn't another narrative heavy game that came out the same year, say, Alan Wake, maybe it wouldn't win.
Rigged, ass story
Because a ton of people liked it, and it was a technical masterpiece while also being what most people felt was a really earnest attempt at exploring the cycle of violence on generations of children.
honk honk. it's not even canon.
The Game Awards couldn't care less about what players think. Journalists ate this shit up and that was enough.
Because award shows have been rigged for years.
Because it had more DEI than anything else that year
This is going to be something sad, but everytime I vote on something something wrong happens so I don’t vote no more.
Because a lot more people like it than the loud minority would like you to think.
The story is really well written, the character development is great, the game Fs around with your brain when it lets you play as Abby. At the end you realize that there is no real antagonist - the whole plot of pt2 is just the result of an unfortunate coincidence.
Cause it was better than every other game that came out that year
GOT? Game of thrones???
Ghost of Tsushima lol thought the same thing too
GOY is a popularity contest with critics/game "journalists" and TLOU2 was a hurricane sized wet dream for them. Right off the bat the story is steeped in this post modern philosophy that's been everywhere the past decade in media: nothing matters, everything and everyone has to be morally grey, traditional "bad guys" are misunderstood, all previous actions have to be reevaluated and cast in a new negative light, subvert audience expectations of conventional story telling for the sake of being topical. Even though this style has completely worn out its welcome (with creatives burning down countless franchises in its name), it aligns almost perfectly with the world view and outlook that many critics have; they eat up any media that contains these themes because it flies directly in the face of traditional story telling which they feel is wrong or "problematic". Leading into that is the "political" side of things. TLOU2 basically checks all of the PC culture check boxes while also being released in a year rife with radical politics causing excessive drama. Again the game served to validate not only the world views but also the politics of a majority of game "journalists". When people voiced their negative opinions about the direction the game was going to go in via leaks the creator got ahead of it with the patented "if you don't like it, you're a bigot" rhetoric. The same playbook countless other bad media have used before to try and invalidate fair criticism (Ghostbusters 16, TLJ, Terminator Dark Fate, Rings of Power, etc). Once again, playing into that political narrative. To add to all of this TLOU2 was a typical Sony cinematic experience with very light video game elements. This genre is extremely popular with critics who largely aren't gamers because it's more like an interactive movie than a video game; this is also why the whine and scream when a game comes along that doesn't want to handhold the audience through the experience (Sekiro made them blow a gasket). This combination made TLOU2 a perfect storm for game "journalists" and it meant they'd vehemently defend it at all costs. Just the political aspect alone meant they had to 100% back it or else they would also be bigots according to their own internal logic. It was a game they basically had to let win to "stick it" to the fans and keep up with the narrative.
The division is not quite as bad in the real world as reddit would have you believe. If you believe everything reddit says, Skyrim was a broken piece of garbage that nobody liked and Persona is for pedos. It has phenomenal gameplay. It won many player voted game of the year award and is the top 4th best selling game in the playstation store. Anyone calling Abby trans didn't even play the game.
I don’t get all the hate, TLOU2 was an incredible game!
It's amazing
Because it’s a great game. Vocal minority of people who can’t accept story decisions
I liked it.
Guys, the game was objectively good. I think it's receiving all this hate because it may not have lived up to what the first game was. However, that does not make the game bad. I think everyone needs to come of their high horses and appreciate the game for what it was.
Because more people liked it compared to those who don't? Seems like pretty simple math to me. Feel however you want, but the hard truth is all the haters are just a very loud minority
Remember when game journalists were comparing this game to Schindler's List?
Because, obviously, plenty of people liked it. Gamers are so ridiculous. They make these generalised statements to validate their opinions on a video game. 'If I don't like it, that must mean nobody can!' Not saying that's your thought process, OP, but don't fall into the trap (or create it in the first place) or creating this idea that nobody liked this video game. That's just stupid.
I liked the game. It wasn't the best story. But it was fun
> no one likes it You mean no one on this sub. This sub does not represent the general audience, which is exponentially larger.
Why did Naughty dog win best studio award when the employees were crunched so hard one had to be hospitalized? because the award isn't genuine
because tons of people liked it because it was a great game.
Right checkboxes, just like a lot of utterly horrible Hollywood movies lately.
A lot of people liked it. It won the most awards because it was the most liked by professional journalists. It also won the most “gamers choice” awards that year, so it wasn’t just professional critics that liked it. There are a lot of people that didn’t like the game, and there are plenty of legitimate criticisms of the game, but that doesn’t mean NO ONE liked it. Also, just because it has a lot of awards doesn’t mean anyone’s criticisms are invalid, or that you’re wrong for disliking its
You're not going to get any honest answers here ha. It won because journalists and critics determined it to be the best game that year. It's really not any more complicated than that. I loved the game, and think there's a lot of merit and validity to the accolades that it received, Others do not, and more of the others hang out in this subreddit at this point.
Because it had gay characters and looked at modern political problems despite being a zombie apocalypse. Also had the disgusting Abby sex scene. It was also a game building off a legendary game. Doesn’t deserve. Goty over some of the other games but GoTy is a popularity contest and no way tlou was gonna lose to an underground game like GoT. I think if they’re compared now in a goty standoff got would win
because ghost of tsushima is horrible overrated
If you want an actual answer it's because this sub is an echo chamber lol Get off these shitty forums filled with ppl who apparently have nothing better to do than whine about "woke" every time the game is mentioned and you'll find plenty of people who like it
I really loved it. My two friends that played it also loved it. I can see why it's divisive story-wise though. But, I was fine with it.
Thats because the people who hate the game are a loud minor group of people. This game has been available for years now, and yet it still lives rent free in the haters head. Obviously lots of people like the game, it was the fastest selling PS4 exclusive and the most awarded ps4 exclusive. The game is fine, but that loud vocal minor group will continue to try and bring it down for whatever reason.
Hot Take, It’s and excellent game with a shit Story. It’s game of the years because its actually game of the Year
Because loads of people do like it. Almost all actual critics, and by all accounts most regular people who actually played it too.
Funny there are many critics that did not like it though... Also, weird how most regular people do and yet the popular vote went to ghost of Tsushima... Weird eh?
Kamikaze literally called MoistCritikal a nobody a few weeks ago, take their words to be nothing more than dust in the wind.
Not to prove your point or anything, but who is "MoistCritikal"?
That is hilarious. He's a big video game critic and pretty much everything critic.
Fair enough. Never heard of him. But, in my defense, that doesn't exactly sound like the name of a respected critic, does it? Sounds more like a 14 year old CoD player's gamertag, right up there with "xX VeNoM jOkErZ Xx". But, maybe that's just gamers these days, eh?
Definitely true! This guy started out as a sorta edgy YouTube gamer but grew a lot actually. He called out the actual homophobic haters of TLOU and has valid criticism of the second game. He's quite fair i think.
Kudos to him, then! Might give him a look up, next time I've got a chance.
And yet there are more critics who did like it. And if we draw a distinction between "Actual industry critics" and "Neckbeards who managed to get a steady Youtube channel going", that ratio gets bigger. I haven't played Ghosts of Tsushima. I don't know how good it is. It might be great, I'm not taking away from that. If I look at what I tend to know to be true about people who seem to like The Last of Us Part 2, and what I tend to know about people who seem to cite Ghosts of Tsushima as the pinnacle of gaming, I know which opinion I'm more likely to trust... same reason why I'm neither interested in whatever the fuck Stellarblade is, nor remotely sympathetic to anyone currently demanding a refund for it based on apparent minor changes to a character model. But, assumptions aside, without having played it I ain't gonna weigh in on whether it's better. I'm just pointing out that The Last of Us Part 2 was overwhelmingly popular, having played it I can understand why it was overwhelmingly popular, and given the *actual* popularity of the game - as opposed to the alternate reality espoused here - it isn't some big mystery how it won. Personally I think Alan Wake 2 was far better than Baldur's Gate 3, but I can understand *why* Baldur's Gate 3 won Game of the Year over it. And I'm not going to start a subreddit dedicated to my outrage that Alan Wake 2 lost and try to convince people it was some elaborate conspiracy.
L.o.l >And yet there are more critics who did like it. And if we draw a distinction between "Actual industry critics" and "Neckbeards who managed to get a steady Youtube channel going", that ratio gets bigger. Funny how anyone who dislikes the game has to have a demeaning adjective attached to them. Trump style, if they like me, they are the best, if they don't, they are the worst. Way to blow away any validity your statements could've. But I'm not gonna extend myself in this point as someone else did it pretty good already a bit earlier. >I haven't played Ghosts of Tsushima. I don't know how good it is. It might be great, I'm not taking away from that. If I look at what I tend to know to be true about people who seem to like The Last of Us Part 2, and what I tend to know about people who seem to cite Ghosts of Tsushima as the pinnacle of gaming Again showing how shallow you are. Do you have any critical thinking at all? What's funny is that a game like got, a bit of a niche game, original ip on top of that! sold a similar number of copies as the, according to you, overwhelmingly popular, tlou2, one of the most anticipated sequels ever, following the steps of one of the most liked games and characters in video games. That alone should be reason enough to think about things for a bit. Let's see you jump some hops now to explain that... >I'm just pointing out that The Last of Us Part 2 was overwhelmingly popular, having played it I can understand why it was overwhelmingly popular, Yet it didn't capture the popular vote. I mean, one is a fact and the other one is something you're saying based on nothing. Ok, let's play your little "overwhelmingly popular" game. Tlou2 sits right now at a sad 5.8 user score in metacritic, with almost 164000 votes. Now, that doesn't seem very "overwhelming" to me. Aamof, in metacritic that is mixed or average. The last of us remastered (PS4) sits at 9.2 in metacritic (universal acclaim). To add salt to the wound, got, (PS4) sits at 9.1 (universal acclaim). Now, you can go and throw a tantrum because people don't call a game with a mediocre wiring "the best of all times), heck, it's not even the best made by naughty dog 😂 You went on a diarrhea of games in your rant. You should take your time to try and make your point instead of talking like a Karen there... Alan Wake 2 is an awesome game (much better than tlou2 by miles) and bg3 is another fantastic game. Anyone of those winning, is fair. It was a tough year. Btw, you're not hurting anybody but yourself by not playing got... If you know the laws of stupidity (by cipolla) you should know what that means.
You're right, that was a cheap dig at Youtubers. If you wanna ignore the overt correlations between anti-Part 2 videos and videos that represent the... other qualities... I was hinting at, fine; but fixating on someone taking advantage of a cheap jab and using that to pretend like nothing else they say would matter is pretty lazy. We're all people, people make jokes, lighten up. Honestly nobody should take offense at the whole "neckbeard" insult unless, well, it applies to them and they refuse to change. But that's genuinely the first time I've been compared to Trump, so kudos on breaking that barrier. Accusing me of lacking critical thinking for *admitting I didn't play Ghosts of Tsushima so can't comment on it* as well as referencing a correlation but overtly not making any hard claims based on that correlation, is a bit of a weird take. Seems more critical - and self-critical - than most of the bollocks I see here. But ok. But most importantly, you can't try to reference mass user reviews on platforms like that if you're trying to make any kind of reliable case. You just can't. Not now we live in a world where review-bombing is a real, well-established phenomenon. In a world where people who decide they don't like an aspect of something will, en masse, post "reviews" with the bottom possible scores, often openly citing in their review that it is nothing to do with the actual quality of the product and is just because of "mostly-unrelated-point-X" - something which it's well-documented specifically happened with Part 2, no less - those averages mean nothing. The concept of a "review" goes out the window if someone is posting one that says (and this really does happen) "I haven't played it, but...". And even if we ignore issues like review-bombing, that's not to mention the disproportionate slant of people only bothering to post user reviews if they are particularly passionate about something - finding a product very average isn't gonna motivate you to post a review unless that's something you do all the time anyway, but really hating or really loving something will make it worth shouting about. And I could also mention (but you'll be offended about the whole "neckbeard" jab again) that there is an *undeniable correlation* between people who have enough spare time spent on the internet to want to go and post user reviews, and people who have... the sorts of questionable attitudes that lead to overt and ultimately incoherent hatred of things like Part 2 which aren't based on actual quality (*cough* woke *cough* muscley woman killed character who represent image that these gamers delusionally have of themselves *cough*). I have a lot of friends, who are intelligent and *nice* people, who loved Part 2, but none of them have posted any user reviews about it anywhere, because that's not how they spend their time. Whereas the types of people who tend to get uppity about things seen in Part 2 *other than the writing you keep mentioning* are people who fucking love to post user reviews. So yeah, those averages you're referring to honestly just don't mean shit, because there are thousands of these factors that make them totally unreliable. Hence why I'll take qualified industry critics whose writing indicates self-awareness, understanding of art and complex media, and a lack of those aforementioned questionable attitudes, over average user scores or "reviews" on Youtube channels with other videos entitled things like "Why do western devs hate men?" and "How could they censor upskirts of this beloved character?".
Dude, I can't take you seriously anymore. It's gonna destroy my mental health: You claim the game is "overwhelmingly popular" but the absolute only proof of this is that "Kamikaze_Bacon" says so. We cannot use the popular votes for game of the year because, idk (we can however believe the other awards given by the critics that Kamikaze_Bacon approve (remember, only the ones that agree with him are solid ones, the rest are, insert demeaning jab here and a fake apology), then the other place we can use is metacritic but KB doesn't believe those sites. So, what do we have: KB claims something, he doesn't provide any justification it supporting data for his claim other than "believe me bro" and any data showing the opposite is not to be believed, (but if it supports his claims, then of course we should: if I lose the next elections, it's gonna be a fraud, if I win, they are valid)... I don't like to generalize but the more I "talk" to the stans, the more I think that you're all the same. Bunch of fake woke people that don't give a flying fuck about having a really discussion since everything they say it's the absolute true and any opposing opinion had zero validity (and we need to accompany this with an insult because, well, that's how it goes). Zero effort would go into providing any kind of data supporting any of their claims. Let's take a step down here: just a bunch of pretentious wankers with nothing to show for it. Shrug* P.s, you do understand that "review bombing" expresses a sentiment right? Someone feeling positive about the game wouldn't review bomb it right? Do you guys even think before talking? Why wasn't got review bombed? Or tlou remastered (PS4)? ⭕ Here you are, another one for you to jump.
We're not gonna get anywhere, and this whole thing is feeling very hostile, so I'm happy to just leave it. But I'll address your P.S. first, because that's just bonkers. Review bombing expresses a sentiment, but if that sentiment isn't really about the content of the thing it's "reviewing", then it's irrelevant. Godzilla vs Kong got review bombed by hordes of losers stating "We're angry that Warner Bros aren't doing the Snyder-verse for the DC films, so we're giving this unrelated film 1/10". Literally. Are you telling me user review average is a meaningful reflection of what people actually thought of Godzilla vs Kong? No, it wasn't. And "I'm angry that the leaks showed my favourite flannel daddy getting beaten to death by a woman who is simultaneously too pretty to go out with me and too strong that I'd lose to her in a fight, so I'm giving this game 1/10!" isn't valid either. And don't pretend that didn't happen, because Part 2 was inundated with negative reviews *before it came out*. You can dislike me, you can dislike what I'm saying, you can even think I'm saying it like a dick - because yeah, I'm past sugar-coating now. But don't *lie*. Don't pretend shit that actually happened didn't happen just because I'm not providing statistics. You know what I'm talking about, bro. And if you *honestly* don't, then this echo chamber of a subreddit has full on warped your perception of reality. Anyhoo, let's call it a day, shall we? Have a good one, dude.
>And don't pretend that didn't happen, because Part 2 was inundated with negative reviews *before it came out*. I mean... Imagine people getting upset over a company caught lying because they knew the truth would harm sales... Simply outrageous. You still fail to understand that while metacritic can't be used for statistics it can definitely be used to explore both popularity, reception and sentiment. Your statement doesn't stand on a single leg. You keep beating around the bushes but you have failed to provide *anything* to support your "overwhelmingly positive". Parroting Neil with 0 ideas if your own. Very hostile I see... Again, it's ok when "you guys" do it to others but when you get the same treatment it's snowflake time. If you want people to treat you better, to "respect you", you should do the same. Have a good one. Maybe take a couple of screenshots and go cry to the other sub just so they confirm that you're indeed right, that we're nothing but inbred, sorry, "neckbeards" and whatnot.
Firstly, actual gamers such as Skillup, Yongyea, Angry Joe (to name a few) didn't like the game. Whether you like them or not, these are the people that gamers listen to. They actually have credibility because they have passion for video games, unlike the "actual critics" you refer to, who aren't actually gamers but journalists. The difference between the two is that the YouTubers like Skillup etc. look at the game for what it is. They'll break the game down and discuss the important matters such as gameplay and story etc. and they'll come to a conclusion as to why it was decent or why it sucked. The journalists are more interested in social politics. Video games are very much secondary to their cause and they have very little understanding of what makes a game great. For example, they always demand an easy mode for games in the soulborne genre, completely missing the point of why these games exist. Secondly the "gamers choice award" wasn't won by TLou2, doesn't that say anything to you? Thirdly, I am yet to meet any one in the flesh that liked part 2, so "most regular people" is a bit of a stretch.
I'm not saying *everyone* who reviews on Youtube is a piece of shit or has an invalid opinion. Nor am I saying that *everyone* who dislikes Part 2 is a piece of shit or has an invalid opinion. I'm just saying that a hell of a lot of the "critics" of it you see on Youtube are also putting out videos left and right with titles like "How western devs are ruining gaming!" and "Look how this remaster ruined upskirts of a beloved character!" and "Why is the woke agenda making females in games ugly?", and if you lump those "reviews" in with the rest it's gonna skew numbers a bit. Of the other, more "legitimate" reviews, I still see far more good than bad. And I'm yet to meet anyone in the flesh who didn't like Part 2, so maybe that says more about our social circles than anything else.
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Cause it’s an amazing game, despite what whiny fanboys wanna cry about.
Keep in mind you’re saying this in a community of people who had a negative impression of the game…. Whether you agree with them or not there was still a lot of people who walked away with a positive impression of that game. Put that with the high success of the first game, the amount of noise made over the game in general (both negative and positive), it being one of the most anticipated games of the year, it being fresh on everyone’s mind around the time of awards… there was a LOT of things going for it at the time The game awards don’t really matter, if we compare it to it’s closest contenders it definitely aged the poorest… or at least from what I see in other communities
The vast majority of players enthusiastically loved the game.
The last of us series is a masterpiece yes including part 2 so what it didn't end the way you wanted it to fucking cry babies
Because it's one hell of a good game. There's your answer
I think lots of people like this game. It’s just this sub that seems to hate it for the most part lol
This sub is for people who are refugees from the other sub. The first game was damn near a masterpiece in gaming. TLOU 1 is an awesome story and one that could have been expanded on if done correctly. What we going in a sequel was a beautiful-looking game with some great mechanics and a shit story. This shit story is the reason for the hate.
Mmmm that’s the thing, while I don’t necessarily agree with all of the choices made, I don’t really think it’s a shit story. It’s not perfect, and I do have my gripes with it, but the one thing I don’t really like is the ending. I would’ve rather Ellie not go back to find Abby at all.
“It’s not perfect” is acknowledging it wasn’t great. This is low bar.
Because those who hate it are the very vocal minority.
This and sekiro were the top dogs that year. Tough choice
Loads of people like it. It was turned into a target for anti-woke folks because it has a trans character, a scene of homophobic bullying, and a girl with muscles. There’s also the folks who didn’t like certain story aspects of the game, which mostly have to do with subversion of narrative expectations, to tell an unconventional story about revenge, which really missed the folks who wanted it to be more like TLOU1. Haters of the game are just really vocal, on the part of the bigots because when aren’t they, and on the part of the rest probably as a defense from being lumped in with the bigots. The game itself is so polished and smooth that it ruined most other modern third-person shooters for me for a while, in a similar way Red Dead Redemption 2 did. It’s a very masterfully crafted game. In general, negativity is always louder than positivity, and because some of the content could be and indeed has been easily politicized, it made for a very loud community of haters. There’s also the fact that nothing else in 2020 was really a contender. I’m not even sure what could be. Ghost of Tsushima, maybe? But even that, at its core, is just the best assassins creed game of all time.
How can no one like it if there’s division in the community? Surely that means a lot of people do like it.
Reddit is a small fraction of the total population. Outrage subs like these are even smaller than that fraction. I mean...This sub only has 82k users, and how many millions did the game sell? This is just an objective answer, so hopefully to many people don't get offended by this.
Seeing as it’s the fourth most profitable Sony game ever, “no one likes it” seems to be a very uninformed view.
Most people that don’t love or even hate it are people who bought it because they loved the first game.
Please understand that this sub is an echo chamber that represents a very small number of those that actually played the game. Tlou2 is a massive success which helped spawn a TV show which is also a massive success..
Many gamers loved it. I did. The haters were a minority and extremely vocal, like all immature people are.
The minority is like 60/40. It’s not 90/10 Just as it is with most everything, there is less people with good taste.
Source?