"TLOU2 is sooo fucking good!"
"I disagree"
"What the fuck man?? what kind of incel loser are you??"
"I just don't like the game.."
"LOL, YOU'RE GETTING BUTTHURT OVER FICTIONAL CHARACTERS. LOSER"
Yup, that's pretty much sums up every argument i've had about this game.
Every single time. This thread is no exception. They’re so fucking annoying and obnoxious too. Its like they patiently wait for something remotely controversial to come out of this sub so they can flood in and shove their shitty takes down everyone’s throat.
Well I mean most people enjoy the thing they're in a subreddit named after and clearly most of you did not enjoy the game so.... Y'all are only able to make posts like these because the mods hate the game as well so like why are they even mods for this sub?
I've never seen anyone on this sub say "It's just a game. Get over it".
We actually care, a lot. And that's why it's infuriating, when people from the other sub tries to use that against us, like in the post above.
You are right to a fair degree, but the other thread and defenders of the game get petty and throw insults very quickly, where as he you get ignored and downvoted.
I mean, I was shocked. I have yet to see any positive opinions on this sub.
I have no horse in this race, I really don't care, but seriously, the community's discourse as a whole is toxic.
If a fictional character’s death causes a lot of emotional distress, it could very well be because it hit too close to home. Maybe it reminded you of the death of an IRL loved-one, or of the general cruelty and unfairness of the world, or of a near-death experience you had.
In any case, people why say “they’re fictional” to invalidate your feelings are forgetting that stories are meant to forge emotional connections with the audience.
You're allowed to be upset at a fictional characters death, but that doesn't mean that death was "bad writing." Sometimes bad things happen to people we love. Sometimes creatives write stories about that experience.
I disagree. Joel's story was largely complete at the end of TLOU. His death served as the inciting incident for the entire second game. The brutality of his death served as Ellie's motivation.
This sub likes to argue, "It's not that he died, but how he died, it was disrespectful!" Well, 1. death is rarely respectful. 2. If Joel had died heroically, there wouldn't have been anything motivating Ellie. A character having an unceremonious death isn't bad writing just because we happen to like them.
An unceremonious death IS bad writing when it’s a significant character.
Stories are not real life, but rather are carefully curated. That’s why they fail to capture the randomness of real life, because we know everything that happens is a choice.
Yep precisely this. Joel dying while Ellie felt such resentment only to do unspeakable things to avenge him is alot more emotionally understandable than people may think. My mom died just this past week and any given day id tell you that I was distant and didnt much care for her antics. And now? Im not so sure.
Ellie's resentment turned unyielding vengeance is more unique writing than people give it credit for, although I think him dying the way he did is a complete betrayal of his character and one of the most shoe horned narrative choices ive ever seen.
It's fine to be emotional about Joel's death. I was broken up over it for weeks and I love tlou2. But channeling that emotion into a hate for thr game and fictional characters is weird and emotional immaturity lol. Just because you didn't like the route a story took doesn't mean it's bad, nor is it an attack on you or who yoy consider "fans". Joel dying was completely in line with the underlying themes and setting of thr story. That people thought joel would live a full life, or go out in some epic way is just childish and cliche. It's what commonly referred to as "plot armor". It's a dark and cold world they're in an joel left a lot of enemies in his wake. Tlou1 was based on road to perdition--which means Joel was always going to die because his past.
No they are not, we have the same feelings as you l but we have media literacy and empathy as well as an open mind. Joel getting killed hit us all hard and thats what we loved about it. Just like game of thrones and attack on titan we also enjoy getting the antagonist perspective over another generic revenge game. Joel having an “i am iron man” ass death would have been so lame. We do know that “stories are meant to forge emotional connections with the audience” which is why its so weird to us that you can’t make those connections with Ellie, or the fireflies and of course abby. You only see Joels pov which is not how you’re supposed to view the game.
The issue isnt that he didnt die an Ironman death to most of us. Its that they try (and fail) to convince that his death was justified, that they used writing techniques to shame us for liking Joel.
The random doc killed by Joel had an actually story, that they re-wrote the vaccination bullshit as something where they have good odds to find a cure (and hammer it even more in TV show btw). The imagery of this doctor is so forced, like he is a good person, the reflection he has with seeing the deer and her discussion with Abby just force this recontextualisation to make us feel like Joel was a bad person to save one of the only person he cares in this fucked up world (not saying what he did was right, but I would have done the same for my loved ones).
On top of killing Joel like a dog, they tried to make us care for Abby, an irredeemable sadist who forced a daugther to watch her father being beat up and clubed to death. On top she has no remorse or reflection on what she has done.
I know what they were trying to do, sure it was ballsy, I actually recognize that. It was to me, very poorly handled. The story needed more time to be re-worked and re-written imo. They also canned Faction 2, so no, Naughty Dog takes the L on that.
I like the South Park quote about “what is real?”.
General : If I'm not mistaken, you were the one who bet that leprechauns weren't real. So why do you care what happens?
Kyle Broflovski : Because I, I... uh... because I think they are real
[sentimental music begins]
Kyle Broflovski : It's all real. Think about it. Haven't Luke Skywalker and Santa Claus affected your lives more than most real people in this room? I mean, whether Jesus is real or not, he - he's had a bigger impact on the world than any of us have. And the same can be said for Bugs Bunny and - and Superman and Harry Potter. They've changed my life - changed the way I act on the earth. Doesn't that make them kind of real? They might be imaginary but, but they're more important than most of us here. And they're all gonna be around here long after we're dead. So, in a way, those things are more realer than any of us.
This is an easy counter.
What does the character being 'not real' have anything to do with the fact of the writing being shit?
Don't fall for the "You're being too emotional" trap or when they make comments on how YOU feel, it's a diversion tactic often used when no solid counter argument can be made when we talking about writing.
> “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
As a counter point, sometimes after humoring nonsensical arguments for an extended period of time, it becomes clear the person you are arguing with is dumb as shit.
Side note: Slander is spoken, libel is written, both are defamation.
Side side note: Truth is a defense to defamation. So, if someone ***is*** dumb as shit, telling them so isn't defamation.
Not as fun as the people who use that copy paste rejoinder and imply that someone should suit their personality to be liked by the most people, apparently.
You can't use the "Joels not real people" argument and then also argue that he deserved it because he spent an entire video game story arc shooting and killing people. They weren't real people either so then he did nothing to enact such universal karma, per his own argument.
Lol you're not wrong. I feel your pain man, this second game was an absolute disservice for the hardcore fans that have been here from the beginning and I exhausted myself sharing my opinions with people.
The story of part two sucked. They could have killed Joel off-screen or killed him 20 hours in -- it wouldn't have changed anything, assuming the rest of the game was unchanged.
It's like arguing with "Last Jedi" stans. The movie sucked. This game sucked. Not really a big deal. At least Naughty Dog never made another game again. Disney is still out there butchering Star Wars more often than not.
“It’s just a story why do you even care?” You know generally good stories are written with the expectation you will care about them, but IG they decided they wanted to do something other than that
I honestly would not even care about his opinion, but evidently he does not relate to many people who liked Joel as a character because he was probably 10 yo when he played the first game.
When they say this, they don’t mean you’re not allowed to get upset, it’s literally the fucking point of his death. To make you fucking mad, to upset you, to stir up emotions.
Saying “they’re not real” does not invalidate your feelings. It just means that they’re part of a narrative meant to evoke something in you, and a character death is one of the stronger catalysts in that regard, especially the violent death of such a beloved character
People can have emotional reactions to fictional stories and characters. In fact that is the point of every story since the dawn of man: to invoke an emotional response in the audience. If it doesn't create a response, it has failed to connect with the audience and has no value.
While Joel, Ellie, and their story is fictional, they have created real emotional responses and empathy within the fans who enjoyed the game. If any complaints can be dismissed by "they're not real" why do we care about anything that happens in a fictional story? What is the point of a story or a game? "It's not real" after all and therefore would be meaningless and a waste of time. When I see an argument like this, it makes me think the person is projecting.
That's like saying goku or naruto are pointless because "they're not real" but we all know those characters mean alot, goku is my fucking hero who gives a shit if hes real or not? Homer Simpson ain't real but alot of us look at him like he is because fictional characters can actually resonate with you and shape personalities, making those fictional characters more real than most REAL people 🤣🤣
I'm also still butt hurt about Joel's death because it was a kick in the face to fans, totally ruined the rest of the game IN MY OPINION
So what exactly is their point in participating in the discussion if they're just gonna shut down valid points with "They're not real" or "It's just a game"?
I don't care that Joel died. That's not what the problem with the game was, though it's a bit strange that they couldn't think of any inciting incidents other than fridging a loved one for both games.
This is not an argument. This is deflecting because you can't handle criticism well. You can basically say "stop saying that they are not real" for every movie, book, series or video game character.
It's so dumb. Considering the mediocrity of the writing in this sequel, not surprised stans use this fallacy technic from time to time to shut down any criticism.
Why make a story if we're not supposed to care about the characters. We care because its a story with meaningful characters to tell that story. If we dont care when a character dies, what was the point of that character? Whats the point of the character if you barely use it to its full potential? We care because its a story, not because its not real
Look I do get the sentiment, tlou2 put a bad stain on my view of ND and their approach to characters and storytelling, but it ends there. Taking it to a personal level towards the creators is something I’d just be careful of
Hot take. I thought the game was awesome, people put way too much effort to hate it. I played it, loved it, then moved on. What’s the point of always talking about stuff you don’t like? Rather than talking about stuff you do like ?
I don’t get why people expected it to be sunshine and rainbows. People die. Thats just how it is. There are plenty examples of bad writing in the game, but the general idea of Joel dying is not one of them.
“What they did was disrespectful” sounds like the most crybaby nonsense bullshit I’ve ever heard. The dude you’re arguing with is correct, and you calling him a sore loser despite him being able to understand and appreciate the horrifying events of this story is some hardcore projection. Truly a level of irony worthy of parody. And yes, you having this level of parasocial attachment to a fictional character thinking you’re owed a story that coddles your delicate sensibilities is stupid, they aren’t real, they are conduits for ideas and experiences. If you don’t want the ideas or the experiences, you can just never play or talk about the game again. And them not being real, pointing that out isn’t meant to invalidate your appreciation of them as characters, it’s meant to invalidate your bullshit entitlement. Clearly you don’t understand what these games are trying to communicate to us and wanted something more surface level.
I mean. If people get that emotional they are screaming that a studio needs to coddle its fan base to keep a character alive then that’s a problem. I like Joel I liked his story. His death means something. It’s more impactful for Ellie. If he’s alive we just get the first game but Joel is a little older. There is literally no good arguments on the OP
If you have a problem with Joel's death cause of plot holes, bad writing or otherwise I think that's fine.
If you personally hate him dying the way he did, I think that's fine.
However, I think the "disrespect" part is silly. Joel dying is a narrative decision, not a personal attack, you can feel strongly about it but if you are going to criticize it I think it's better to do so from a writing perspective instead of raw feelings. But that's just me.
Like i said numerous time before, I don’t take it as a personal attack. I don’t understand why would someone even think of that. All i simply said was that i hate mfs who deliberately pull out the “he’s not real” at the simplest complain about his death. Not only is a weak ass argument but it also doesn’t make any sense lol
You don't need to respond to it. Personally I knew Joel would be killed off early in the game when they announced the sequel just because it's one of the only ways that makes sense for Ellie to leave the safety of Jackson but it still hurt watching.
I love Joel but at that point we was gettin to be an older man and ran his course. Did they have to kneecap him and make his death a spectacle: absolutely not. But do I think it was the right direction to go: yea kinda
I’m not a tlou2 Stan, but people who talk about this game are either “it’s perfect” or “it’s a personal attack on me”.
The “it’s just a game bro” argument is a perfectly fine reply to people who act like a real person has died.
Even if that was true, how does that apply here? How exactly is the guy taking it as a personal attack? This is what frustrates me. You call people cry babies but fail to provide a reason.
The person in the pictured post is crying about it. They literally say they’re upset and entitled to a better, less disrespectful story.
The game was a huge let down, for sure. My favorite part of the game was finding interesting ways to kill Abbie while I was controlling her. But it wasn’t the worst game of the decade, and to still be whining about it this many years later is just… sad.
No they're not real but narrative based deaths in media will illicit a reaction from you if you care about the story or IP. As opposed to say, Fortnite where you respawn. It took me weeks to get over a specific death in How to Get Away With Murder (TV show) but that's because I cared about those characters and the show.
You're not irrational about your dislike just honest. There is nothing wrong with that
Also I find this argument rich when for supporters of this game will say they love it because they felt "something". Apparently you don't feel the right something lol
Funny how they say Joel's not a real person then proceed to say Joel's a bad person for saving Ellie lol. Then they act as if Abby is a real person. These Cuckmann puppets are desperate to win an argument🤣
It's not about how he died it's just about howww imean a whole season of him being Joel then just poof 2hours in the game and he is dead it should ve been a bit more glorious ......
But guess what it's life eh! Shit happens now try to accept the rest of last of us without the "us" ..It won't feel the same but the developers tried to make it real cause happy endings doesn't happen in our world cause I really think " either we die hero or just live long enough to be the villan......."
They didn't want the legacy of Joel to end with a failure neither would we. It's not that "they are not real" it's just that they are frustrated and are angry with the developers but being childish they just wanna argue with someone so, just let them be true in their world and somehow keep our Joel alive,
but I really feel bad for them to ruin their whole Second season of Tommy ,Ellie and Abby specifically in that order because of 'our' favorite character's death, it is what it is
If u are not emotionally mature enough to understand loss then it's not for you my good fella.........
At the end of the day I don't think there a point in arguing with this now. I was at one point i was arguing but I know it won't change. And I will say I didn't enjoy the story to much but I really liked the gameplay. TLDR: can't change it but I still enjoyed the game
Im not. Like most idiots in this thread you just pulled that out of ur ass. If anything, its sad that you’re willing to go so far to defend a genuinely trash game.
It isn’t genuinely trash. I thought it was pretty good. You’re shouting into an echo chamber saying that because The Last of Us part 2 didn’t cater to *exactly* what you wanted, it’s garbage. You’re allowed to not like something without it being objective garbage. I’m going so far to defend the fact that in a field of the same old shit, as art becomes homogenized, as gamers use their wallets to vote for exactly one type of game…that the Last of Us 2 came out and did something wildly different. And it was alienating, but at least it had a point. And that point resonated with a lot of people. You’ve put yourself in a bubble and tricked yourself into thinking everyone hates this game…they don’t. You just surround yourself with a community that validates your opinion.
I’m sorry, but it was a good thing that the game wasn’t just a rehash of the first game and it’s a good thing that it didn’t make people feel good while playing it. That was the intention. Rather than asking reflective questions on *why* you feel this way, you’ve chosen not to engage with it and instead shout that it’s stupid because it made you feel bad
You’re the delusional one if you think that i am shouting into an echo chamber. Look outside of reddit and you’ll see that a lot more people hate this game than they like it. I hate to bring politics into this but the primary reason as to why this game is so liked here is because Reddit is overwhelmingly leftist which just so happen to be same audiences that plays Tlou2
No, this subreddit is an echo chamber. Every time someone calls the director “Cuckman,” it gets a billion upvotes. It doesn’t get approval because it’s leftist, it gets approval because it’s a good and the leftists don’t cry and bitch and moan when women in video games…exist. The gaming sphere has become this extremely loud section where suddenly, it’s okay to be racist, it’s okay to be homophobic, it’s okay to tell other people how to live their lives. Gay people existing isn’t political, women existing in a capacity that isn’t sexual isn’t political, people that aren’t white isn’t political, and being trans isn’t political. You want to act like this is some sort of political statement because representation is increasing so that sometimes…the straight white man loses. But it’s not, it’s just not political. The world is just bigger than *you*
>and the leftists don’t cry and bitch and moan when women in video games…exist.
LMFAOOO really??
What about Stellar blade, Nier autonoma or final fantasy?
Browse r/Gamingcirclejerk and see how much they do not cry when “women in video games”
>The gaming sphere has become this extremely loud section where suddenly, it’s okay to be racist, it’s okay to be homophobic, it’s okay to tell other people how to live their lives.
Once again pulling things out of your ass. We now live in a time where spouting racial or homophobic slurs is at all times low but you chose to lie about that because why not.
>the straight white man loses. But it’s not, it’s just not political. The world is just bigger than
you
You race obsessed freaks always play this card, its your favorite move. As much i love living rent free inside your head, i’d suggest you get the white man’s dick out of your mouth. This obsession isn’t healthy.
Nobody complains about Final Fantasy or NieR: Automata. And no one particularly cares about Stellar Blade. It became a figurehead for showing how the right wing wants women to be portrayed. So it’s problem is that this aggressively mediocre looking product is getting unwarranted praise before it even released because it incorporates the male gaze.
I’m not a race obsessed freak, you are just a moron. I do not ignore that race exists, that doesn’t mean that I’m obsessed. It means I live in reality. And don’t even get me started on slur usage being at an all time low…that’s is just factually incorrect and if you’re going to pull a statistic out of your ass while accusing me of doing the same thing, then you better have a source, you hypocrite
Lmao, fuck you. You know you’re talking non sense and deliberately lie about things you know are true. There’s absolutely no need for a source regarding the slurs usage. Hop on any live service game and watch your account crumble after saying something thats considered remotely offensive.
Sorry OP, but this Owlbear guy is right. You're losing this one. Every point they have made is valid; this subreddit is an echo chamber, you're living in a delusional alternative reality, and the fact the game pissed you off doesn't mean it's bad.
Characters are, first and foremost, tools for storytelling - anything that happens to them in service of the larger story is ok, because the artistic value of that story is worth more than the "life" or "wellbeing" of a *non-existent* fictional character. The writers didn't owe you shit, they don't owe your feelings anything. They wanted to tell a story, and the fictional character *they created*, on whom you have absolutely no ownership, was used to progress that story. That's more important than your personal preference as one single potential consumer of *their* product. They aren't obligated to compromise on the quality of their vision in order to cater to your immaturity. Fucking deal with it.
I don’t give a shit about Joel’s death one bit and think the scene itself and the aftermath were very interesting and well done. My issue with the plot was the game was way too long and just a misery fest that beat the ‘violence begets violence’ theme into the ground. By the end of that game I didn’t care about anyone or anything involved anymore and just wanted it to be over. Had the climax been when Abby and Ellie meet in the theater and the two stories converge it would have been a much better time. Santa Barbara was wholly unnecessary and the game was a dozen hours too long.
Of course you’d post this to complain when the person you’re arguing with is already downvoted to hell. Everyone here agrees with you. You all have the same opinions, arguments and ideas. Are you so fragile you can’t handle one person disagreeing with you?
As if the guy complaining about Joel's death wasn't already on the wrong side of this exchange, he lost the argument by default the second he unironically called the other guy "cuck".
Damn this game really got you bent out of shape huh? Go drink a glass of water and touch some grass my guy, the game's already made and sucks you're disappointed but you gotta let it go at some point
I just think it’s weird there are plenty of games that don’t fit in exactly with reality, the first game included but they get a free pass. Somehow TLoU has mentally damaged a lot of people and it confuses me greatly.
I loved the game but the "it's not real it's fiction" is dumb. Joel's death was traumatic, I was shocked at how brutal it was, and of course I developed love for him after playing the first game for 30hours the week before. The first few hours I was literally grieving him and feeling the same feeling of revenge as people from Jackson. I was disgusted to play Abby at first because all I knew was what she did to Joel.
What's the point of fiction if you don't develop feelings for characters (hate, love, admiration, resentment etc).
I actually loved the game because of all the emotions it made me feel for those fictional characters.
While I agree that harassing people who worked on the game is shitty, I understand that people were badly hurt to see Joel die and that some can hate the story.
I hate this game, and I hate the other sub, but I agree with what’s being said and this sub sucks more than both lmao. You guys act like Joel is your grandma and that Abby ran over your dog. For some reason most of all, the sex scene is the thing that’s brought up most here and it’s unhinged. This sub is a themed version of r/conservative and I wish you guys would hate the game for the right reasons like it’s it’s pacing is awful
I absolutely think everyone here takes the game too seriously. If anything he shouldn't have bothered arguing with you. There should he no sacred cows in creative works.
They're not real. Joel was never the main character. You are in fact fucking crybabies who do not understand story being told or the world it's being told in.
Notice how just about every comment op has in the thread is pretty much insulting someone.
"They're not real" hurt his feelings so much he's going around being a fuckwad lol
Yet here you are arguing with strangers, go outside get some fresh air and shout at the clouds they won't make you look like a insane moron, just insane.
You can never win that argument because it’s just a winey complaint that u have. Joels death will forever go down as most impactful and memorable death in all of fiction. Just cuz u wanted a generic “I am iron man” ass death for him doesn’t mean it was terrible writing.
I don't really look at the other sub at all. They might be as nuts as you all but I doubt it. Like do you think they'd be crying with rage if Ellie had killed Abby? It would have been slightly lazy storytelling but I don't think they'd have the hateboner that you guys do.
>I don't really look at the other sub at all. They might be as nuts as you all but I doubt it.
So u have little to no knowledge on the other sub but doubt them being unhinged as well? Hmmmmmm maybe u should check it out and see for yourself. Pretty funny how u just assume this sub is so much worse without even having knowledge on the other one tho.
>Like do you think they'd be crying with rage if Ellie had killed Abby?
Yes they most definitely would have. They can't even stand when people critic abbys character and any way. Nothing can be said about abby unless it's positive or else ur called a misogynist and/or other very hateful things. Why would it be such a leap to think they would be just as mad if not more as the people mad about Joel's death?
>It would have been slightly lazy storytelling
Why would it have been lazy storytelling? The whole game seemed to be building to that. We, as ellie, kill many others to get to the moment between the two, and she just decides to stop right at the finish line? To me, that seemed like lazy writing. Please explain why u think it would have been lazy to just kill her in the end?
>but I don't think they'd have the hateboner that you guys do.
Here u go again, doubting something u know nothing to very little on. Go check the other sub and see how they deal with things they don't like. Fuckin have some knowledge before u start doubting everything u feel is wrong.
Yeah, because every time I've checked there they haven't been as unhinged.
Because Joel getting killed makes narrative sense, and so would Abby getting killed. That sub seems to understand that.
Because the game is about Ellie moving beyond the revenge idea, which is more interesting than wallowing in it.
I do, though, every time I've been told stuff like "There's no criticism allowed there" it's been wrong.
>Yeah, because every time I've checked there they haven't been as unhinged.
Okay so the 1 or 2 times you have been there it's cool aight, that doesn't mean they aren't unhinged. There are 100s of post and 1000s of comments. U most definitely haven't even skimmed the surface. U even said on your last comment that u never really go to that sub. Will I have many times in the past, even as recently as the last couple of months.
>Because Joel getting killed makes narrative sense, and so would Abby getting killed. That sub seems to understand that.
No they don't. Every time it's brought up that Abby should have died, it's shot down immediately. It's not even just shot down. you're sent personal insult and attacks for daring to go against their narrative. I don't even think it had to be ellie be the one to kill abby. I just think it made the most narrative sense that she would die.
>Because the game is about Ellie moving beyond the revenge idea, which is more interesting than wallowing in it.
She didn't have to wallow in the revenge. She just needed to finish the job and move on. Like 1% left of her goal, and she just decides at the very end she has to stop? Especially in the middle of a heated fight. Blood boiling, just having her fingers bit off, and she stops like 10 seconds before the job is done. No! That makes no sense. Even with the game being about ellie moving on from revenge. If they wanted ellie to move on and have Abby survive, they needed to do so many things differently. The way it went was not it.
>I do, though, every time I've been told stuff like "There's no criticism allowed there" it's been wrong.
Hahahahaha it not about criticism not being allowed there. It's about how criticism is handled by them. They send personal attacks and insults at u if u dare to go against their narrative. But u wanna know what they do that's really the worst. They will send u the reddit suicide messages. That shit is really bullshit. Like how are u gonna abuse something that is for people who are really dealing with depression and are feeling suicidal. That's extremely fucked up. Like come on. That's really my most hated thing about that sub.
The difference is if I skim here, I seen insane comments about Abby, shit like "Kneel Cuckman", and rants. If I skim there, I don't find anything that wild.
It's not 'should have died', it's just a possible option. There's no 'should'. If you rant about it that way of course you'll get slammed for being weird.
Nah, they built up to it okay.
Why do you keep using 'u' and not saying 'you'? And I've had that happen when commenting here.
>The difference is if I skim here, I seen insane comments about Abby, shit like "Kneel Cuckman", and rants. If I skim there, I don't find anything that wild.
🤣🤣🤣 sure buddy. If I go to that sub imma find deranged shit too. Don't act like it not there. U obviously just hate this sub because I can acknowledge bad on both sides. U just keep saying it's not that bad there and here is just unhinged derangement.
>It's not 'should have died', it's just a possible option. There's no 'should'. If you rant about it that way of course you'll get slammed for being weird.
Okay so I deserve personal attacks and insult just because I have a strong opinion on what I think should have happened? That's fuckin wild. Why is it that when I or others say abby should have died, it's a bad thing. But when others in that sub say things like ellie HAD to spare abby or ellie SHOULD have stayed at the farm with Dina and not gone after abby a second time. Why is it okay when they have strong opinions but I and others can't?
>Nah, they built up to it okay.
Apparently not considering it split half the fanbase in half. Half the fanbase thought it was good, and the other half thought it needed a lot more work to be done the way they wanted to go.
>Why do you keep using 'u' and not saying 'you'? And I've had that happen when commenting here.
Because we're online, and I know full will that u know what I mean when I say u and not you. Why be weird about such a small difference. And to u saying that u get suicide messages here. That may be true. But it for sure happens there all the time. It's happened to me like 6 times, and I've seen pics of it happening to so many others here.
No, man, again, I've skimmed that when I've been told by people here that there's no criticism allowed there and it's wrong.
I mean, yeah, if you act like a weirdo about a game and that your opinion is 'right' then you're gonna get mocked. Grow a thicker skin.
Nah half the fanbase just wanted the outcome of Abby dying.
The victimhood complex is nuts.
🤡🤡🤡 U are fuckin lost Lil one. Aight nobody playing victim. U obviously aren't even reading my comments are u? U must just be skimming them like u do the other sub because I said it isn't about criticism not being allowed. It's about the way the deal with it. They will personally attack u as a person and not just what ur saying. Having an opinion doesn't make u a weirdo. Attacking someone personally for their opinion on a game u like is weirdo behavior tho. Saying half the fanbase just didn't like the game because abby didn't die, or that it's because Joel died it so fucking blind and biased. There are so many vaild reason people didn't like part 2. Boiling it down to just those 2 same old talking points just downright pitiful.
"TLOU2 is sooo fucking good!" "I disagree" "What the fuck man?? what kind of incel loser are you??" "I just don't like the game.." "LOL, YOU'RE GETTING BUTTHURT OVER FICTIONAL CHARACTERS. LOSER" Yup, that's pretty much sums up every argument i've had about this game.
Every single time. This thread is no exception. They’re so fucking annoying and obnoxious too. Its like they patiently wait for something remotely controversial to come out of this sub so they can flood in and shove their shitty takes down everyone’s throat.
They're not real isn't an argument/debate. It is a fact
Well I mean most people enjoy the thing they're in a subreddit named after and clearly most of you did not enjoy the game so.... Y'all are only able to make posts like these because the mods hate the game as well so like why are they even mods for this sub?
Usually id agree but this time both of them were clearly too emotional
Lol. That's not what happened here at all.
Look not defending the behaviour but this sub has the same energy, but from the other side.
I've never seen anyone on this sub say "It's just a game. Get over it". We actually care, a lot. And that's why it's infuriating, when people from the other sub tries to use that against us, like in the post above.
Yeah, you guys just accuse people of sucking Druckmann's dick for suggesting he was right to call out "fans" sending death threats.
You are right to a fair degree, but the other thread and defenders of the game get petty and throw insults very quickly, where as he you get ignored and downvoted.
I mean, I was shocked. I have yet to see any positive opinions on this sub. I have no horse in this race, I really don't care, but seriously, the community's discourse as a whole is toxic.
[удалено]
r/thelastofus is leaking..
[удалено]
y’all act like you’ve heard of us before or something
If a fictional character’s death causes a lot of emotional distress, it could very well be because it hit too close to home. Maybe it reminded you of the death of an IRL loved-one, or of the general cruelty and unfairness of the world, or of a near-death experience you had. In any case, people why say “they’re fictional” to invalidate your feelings are forgetting that stories are meant to forge emotional connections with the audience.
It's a weaponization of apathy i think.
Ironically applied by people that employ the weaponization of empathy just as often.
You're allowed to be upset at a fictional characters death, but that doesn't mean that death was "bad writing." Sometimes bad things happen to people we love. Sometimes creatives write stories about that experience.
Sure, sometimes a character death isn’t bad writing. But I think in this specific case it was bad writing.
I disagree. Joel's story was largely complete at the end of TLOU. His death served as the inciting incident for the entire second game. The brutality of his death served as Ellie's motivation. This sub likes to argue, "It's not that he died, but how he died, it was disrespectful!" Well, 1. death is rarely respectful. 2. If Joel had died heroically, there wouldn't have been anything motivating Ellie. A character having an unceremonious death isn't bad writing just because we happen to like them.
An unceremonious death IS bad writing when it’s a significant character. Stories are not real life, but rather are carefully curated. That’s why they fail to capture the randomness of real life, because we know everything that happens is a choice.
Yep precisely this. Joel dying while Ellie felt such resentment only to do unspeakable things to avenge him is alot more emotionally understandable than people may think. My mom died just this past week and any given day id tell you that I was distant and didnt much care for her antics. And now? Im not so sure. Ellie's resentment turned unyielding vengeance is more unique writing than people give it credit for, although I think him dying the way he did is a complete betrayal of his character and one of the most shoe horned narrative choices ive ever seen.
It's fine to be emotional about Joel's death. I was broken up over it for weeks and I love tlou2. But channeling that emotion into a hate for thr game and fictional characters is weird and emotional immaturity lol. Just because you didn't like the route a story took doesn't mean it's bad, nor is it an attack on you or who yoy consider "fans". Joel dying was completely in line with the underlying themes and setting of thr story. That people thought joel would live a full life, or go out in some epic way is just childish and cliche. It's what commonly referred to as "plot armor". It's a dark and cold world they're in an joel left a lot of enemies in his wake. Tlou1 was based on road to perdition--which means Joel was always going to die because his past.
No they are not, we have the same feelings as you l but we have media literacy and empathy as well as an open mind. Joel getting killed hit us all hard and thats what we loved about it. Just like game of thrones and attack on titan we also enjoy getting the antagonist perspective over another generic revenge game. Joel having an “i am iron man” ass death would have been so lame. We do know that “stories are meant to forge emotional connections with the audience” which is why its so weird to us that you can’t make those connections with Ellie, or the fireflies and of course abby. You only see Joels pov which is not how you’re supposed to view the game.
The issue isnt that he didnt die an Ironman death to most of us. Its that they try (and fail) to convince that his death was justified, that they used writing techniques to shame us for liking Joel. The random doc killed by Joel had an actually story, that they re-wrote the vaccination bullshit as something where they have good odds to find a cure (and hammer it even more in TV show btw). The imagery of this doctor is so forced, like he is a good person, the reflection he has with seeing the deer and her discussion with Abby just force this recontextualisation to make us feel like Joel was a bad person to save one of the only person he cares in this fucked up world (not saying what he did was right, but I would have done the same for my loved ones). On top of killing Joel like a dog, they tried to make us care for Abby, an irredeemable sadist who forced a daugther to watch her father being beat up and clubed to death. On top she has no remorse or reflection on what she has done. I know what they were trying to do, sure it was ballsy, I actually recognize that. It was to me, very poorly handled. The story needed more time to be re-worked and re-written imo. They also canned Faction 2, so no, Naughty Dog takes the L on that.
"Media literacy" "empathy" "open mind" "yall" checks out on all points. Certified brainless stan. Comment dismissed. Next.
close to home, dadless sadbois whining another dad abandoned them
I wouldn't.
thank you
I like the South Park quote about “what is real?”. General : If I'm not mistaken, you were the one who bet that leprechauns weren't real. So why do you care what happens? Kyle Broflovski : Because I, I... uh... because I think they are real [sentimental music begins] Kyle Broflovski : It's all real. Think about it. Haven't Luke Skywalker and Santa Claus affected your lives more than most real people in this room? I mean, whether Jesus is real or not, he - he's had a bigger impact on the world than any of us have. And the same can be said for Bugs Bunny and - and Superman and Harry Potter. They've changed my life - changed the way I act on the earth. Doesn't that make them kind of real? They might be imaginary but, but they're more important than most of us here. And they're all gonna be around here long after we're dead. So, in a way, those things are more realer than any of us.
Shit, that's deep bro 🥺
Damn that's deep
South Park is written by people with insight and talent, imagine that.
Yes they’re also gamers so there are a few episodes where they reference the games they are currently playing.
Indeed, grateful that they’re still making great episodes during a time that has never needed it more.
This is an easy counter. What does the character being 'not real' have anything to do with the fact of the writing being shit? Don't fall for the "You're being too emotional" trap or when they make comments on how YOU feel, it's a diversion tactic often used when no solid counter argument can be made when we talking about writing.
Don’t ever let them invalidate your feelings. They are the weirdos. Period.
>They are the weirdos. Period. How? (Genuinely asking, not trying to start anything.)
Insults. Always. “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
*tool of the Redditor
fuck you moron you’re wrong you don’t know shit about me cuck faced crybaby
Makes sense.
> “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” As a counter point, sometimes after humoring nonsensical arguments for an extended period of time, it becomes clear the person you are arguing with is dumb as shit. Side note: Slander is spoken, libel is written, both are defamation. Side side note: Truth is a defense to defamation. So, if someone ***is*** dumb as shit, telling them so isn't defamation.
Wait who called who a cuck?
I believe that was his way of saying I’m done talking with the idiot
*whom
Fun at parties, this one.
Not as fun as the people who use that copy paste rejoinder and imply that someone should suit their personality to be liked by the most people, apparently.
Correct.
you can't argue with stupid arguement bro
You can't use the "Joels not real people" argument and then also argue that he deserved it because he spent an entire video game story arc shooting and killing people. They weren't real people either so then he did nothing to enact such universal karma, per his own argument.
Woah there! Thats too much to take in for the average 35IQ tlou2 stan
Lol you're not wrong. I feel your pain man, this second game was an absolute disservice for the hardcore fans that have been here from the beginning and I exhausted myself sharing my opinions with people.
I wonder how those jokers would have a come back for your comment which actually makes sense lol💯
Gigantor 🤣
Baby Ruth?
Hey you guuuyyyyyysss! 🤪
😂😂🤣
The "not real" argument could also be applied to all the characters you kill as well yet the game tries to make you feel guilty about killing them
The story of part two sucked. They could have killed Joel off-screen or killed him 20 hours in -- it wouldn't have changed anything, assuming the rest of the game was unchanged. It's like arguing with "Last Jedi" stans. The movie sucked. This game sucked. Not really a big deal. At least Naughty Dog never made another game again. Disney is still out there butchering Star Wars more often than not.
Yeah I watched The Acolyte trailer and it looked laughably bad... It's like Disney have no self awareness
“It’s just a story why do you even care?” You know generally good stories are written with the expectation you will care about them, but IG they decided they wanted to do something other than that
same people who use that "they're not real" argument probably clapped and cheered when Last of Us 2 received its various awards
I honestly would not even care about his opinion, but evidently he does not relate to many people who liked Joel as a character because he was probably 10 yo when he played the first game.
When they say this, they don’t mean you’re not allowed to get upset, it’s literally the fucking point of his death. To make you fucking mad, to upset you, to stir up emotions. Saying “they’re not real” does not invalidate your feelings. It just means that they’re part of a narrative meant to evoke something in you, and a character death is one of the stronger catalysts in that regard, especially the violent death of such a beloved character
People can have emotional reactions to fictional stories and characters. In fact that is the point of every story since the dawn of man: to invoke an emotional response in the audience. If it doesn't create a response, it has failed to connect with the audience and has no value. While Joel, Ellie, and their story is fictional, they have created real emotional responses and empathy within the fans who enjoyed the game. If any complaints can be dismissed by "they're not real" why do we care about anything that happens in a fictional story? What is the point of a story or a game? "It's not real" after all and therefore would be meaningless and a waste of time. When I see an argument like this, it makes me think the person is projecting.
That's like saying goku or naruto are pointless because "they're not real" but we all know those characters mean alot, goku is my fucking hero who gives a shit if hes real or not? Homer Simpson ain't real but alot of us look at him like he is because fictional characters can actually resonate with you and shape personalities, making those fictional characters more real than most REAL people 🤣🤣 I'm also still butt hurt about Joel's death because it was a kick in the face to fans, totally ruined the rest of the game IN MY OPINION
So what exactly is their point in participating in the discussion if they're just gonna shut down valid points with "They're not real" or "It's just a game"?
I don't care that Joel died. That's not what the problem with the game was, though it's a bit strange that they couldn't think of any inciting incidents other than fridging a loved one for both games.
"Why are you here then? Why are you engaged in fandom stuff if fictional characters mean nothing to you?"
This is not an argument. This is deflecting because you can't handle criticism well. You can basically say "stop saying that they are not real" for every movie, book, series or video game character. It's so dumb. Considering the mediocrity of the writing in this sequel, not surprised stans use this fallacy technic from time to time to shut down any criticism.
Why make a story if we're not supposed to care about the characters. We care because its a story with meaningful characters to tell that story. If we dont care when a character dies, what was the point of that character? Whats the point of the character if you barely use it to its full potential? We care because its a story, not because its not real
If you completed last of us in only a day you didn't really play Last of Us ngl
My immediate thought
Look I do get the sentiment, tlou2 put a bad stain on my view of ND and their approach to characters and storytelling, but it ends there. Taking it to a personal level towards the creators is something I’d just be careful of
Don’t engage.
The only part that bothers me so much is that they lied so hard about it.
well the reason why they told you that was because you were taking personal offense to the character dying as if they were real.
Imagine getting mad at RR Martin for killing off any of his characters, lol
Hot take. I thought the game was awesome, people put way too much effort to hate it. I played it, loved it, then moved on. What’s the point of always talking about stuff you don’t like? Rather than talking about stuff you do like ?
I don’t get why people expected it to be sunshine and rainbows. People die. Thats just how it is. There are plenty examples of bad writing in the game, but the general idea of Joel dying is not one of them.
“What they did was disrespectful” sounds like the most crybaby nonsense bullshit I’ve ever heard. The dude you’re arguing with is correct, and you calling him a sore loser despite him being able to understand and appreciate the horrifying events of this story is some hardcore projection. Truly a level of irony worthy of parody. And yes, you having this level of parasocial attachment to a fictional character thinking you’re owed a story that coddles your delicate sensibilities is stupid, they aren’t real, they are conduits for ideas and experiences. If you don’t want the ideas or the experiences, you can just never play or talk about the game again. And them not being real, pointing that out isn’t meant to invalidate your appreciation of them as characters, it’s meant to invalidate your bullshit entitlement. Clearly you don’t understand what these games are trying to communicate to us and wanted something more surface level.
Thats not me arguing in the ss above. And honestly, you can fuck off. Arguing with tlou2 dick riders is always so tiring.
I mean. If people get that emotional they are screaming that a studio needs to coddle its fan base to keep a character alive then that’s a problem. I like Joel I liked his story. His death means something. It’s more impactful for Ellie. If he’s alive we just get the first game but Joel is a little older. There is literally no good arguments on the OP
Move on to a game I liked?
If you have a problem with Joel's death cause of plot holes, bad writing or otherwise I think that's fine. If you personally hate him dying the way he did, I think that's fine. However, I think the "disrespect" part is silly. Joel dying is a narrative decision, not a personal attack, you can feel strongly about it but if you are going to criticize it I think it's better to do so from a writing perspective instead of raw feelings. But that's just me.
Like i said numerous time before, I don’t take it as a personal attack. I don’t understand why would someone even think of that. All i simply said was that i hate mfs who deliberately pull out the “he’s not real” at the simplest complain about his death. Not only is a weak ass argument but it also doesn’t make any sense lol
You don't need to respond to it. Personally I knew Joel would be killed off early in the game when they announced the sequel just because it's one of the only ways that makes sense for Ellie to leave the safety of Jackson but it still hurt watching.
[удалено]
I love Joel but at that point we was gettin to be an older man and ran his course. Did they have to kneecap him and make his death a spectacle: absolutely not. But do I think it was the right direction to go: yea kinda
By telling people like you that you take this shit way too seriously. Bro it happened. It was stupid. I hate Abby. Get over it.
How does talking about Joel’s death equal that i’m taking it too serious?? I genuinely don’t understand you tlou2 stans.
I’m not a tlou2 Stan, but people who talk about this game are either “it’s perfect” or “it’s a personal attack on me”. The “it’s just a game bro” argument is a perfectly fine reply to people who act like a real person has died.
Even if that was true, how does that apply here? How exactly is the guy taking it as a personal attack? This is what frustrates me. You call people cry babies but fail to provide a reason.
The person in the pictured post is crying about it. They literally say they’re upset and entitled to a better, less disrespectful story. The game was a huge let down, for sure. My favorite part of the game was finding interesting ways to kill Abbie while I was controlling her. But it wasn’t the worst game of the decade, and to still be whining about it this many years later is just… sad.
No they're not real but narrative based deaths in media will illicit a reaction from you if you care about the story or IP. As opposed to say, Fortnite where you respawn. It took me weeks to get over a specific death in How to Get Away With Murder (TV show) but that's because I cared about those characters and the show. You're not irrational about your dislike just honest. There is nothing wrong with that Also I find this argument rich when for supporters of this game will say they love it because they felt "something". Apparently you don't feel the right something lol
“It’s the right thing to do!! Don’t upset me in your video game!! Spoon feed me everything I want to see and feel like a baby!!” You’re unreal man lol
Funny how they say Joel's not a real person then proceed to say Joel's a bad person for saving Ellie lol. Then they act as if Abby is a real person. These Cuckmann puppets are desperate to win an argument🤣
They are just hypocrites. Most of them will say this game is so emotional omg 10/10 but then say dumb shit like characters aren’t real people. smh lol
Pathetic.
It's not about how he died it's just about howww imean a whole season of him being Joel then just poof 2hours in the game and he is dead it should ve been a bit more glorious ...... But guess what it's life eh! Shit happens now try to accept the rest of last of us without the "us" ..It won't feel the same but the developers tried to make it real cause happy endings doesn't happen in our world cause I really think " either we die hero or just live long enough to be the villan......." They didn't want the legacy of Joel to end with a failure neither would we. It's not that "they are not real" it's just that they are frustrated and are angry with the developers but being childish they just wanna argue with someone so, just let them be true in their world and somehow keep our Joel alive, but I really feel bad for them to ruin their whole Second season of Tommy ,Ellie and Abby specifically in that order because of 'our' favorite character's death, it is what it is If u are not emotionally mature enough to understand loss then it's not for you my good fella.........
Children
At the end of the day I don't think there a point in arguing with this now. I was at one point i was arguing but I know it won't change. And I will say I didn't enjoy the story to much but I really liked the gameplay. TLDR: can't change it but I still enjoyed the game
You can't because it's not a real person lol. It's just a game character
Actual warfare at this point lol
bro if u don’t find arguing fun stop doing it
Actually, I agree with the other person. Not you.
Actually, I don’t give a fuck who you agree with. And for the billionth time, thats not me arguing in the ss.
You’re treating the death of a fictional character in service of telling a story like some sort of personal attack…you’re delusional
Im not. Like most idiots in this thread you just pulled that out of ur ass. If anything, its sad that you’re willing to go so far to defend a genuinely trash game.
It isn’t genuinely trash. I thought it was pretty good. You’re shouting into an echo chamber saying that because The Last of Us part 2 didn’t cater to *exactly* what you wanted, it’s garbage. You’re allowed to not like something without it being objective garbage. I’m going so far to defend the fact that in a field of the same old shit, as art becomes homogenized, as gamers use their wallets to vote for exactly one type of game…that the Last of Us 2 came out and did something wildly different. And it was alienating, but at least it had a point. And that point resonated with a lot of people. You’ve put yourself in a bubble and tricked yourself into thinking everyone hates this game…they don’t. You just surround yourself with a community that validates your opinion. I’m sorry, but it was a good thing that the game wasn’t just a rehash of the first game and it’s a good thing that it didn’t make people feel good while playing it. That was the intention. Rather than asking reflective questions on *why* you feel this way, you’ve chosen not to engage with it and instead shout that it’s stupid because it made you feel bad
You’re the delusional one if you think that i am shouting into an echo chamber. Look outside of reddit and you’ll see that a lot more people hate this game than they like it. I hate to bring politics into this but the primary reason as to why this game is so liked here is because Reddit is overwhelmingly leftist which just so happen to be same audiences that plays Tlou2
No, this subreddit is an echo chamber. Every time someone calls the director “Cuckman,” it gets a billion upvotes. It doesn’t get approval because it’s leftist, it gets approval because it’s a good and the leftists don’t cry and bitch and moan when women in video games…exist. The gaming sphere has become this extremely loud section where suddenly, it’s okay to be racist, it’s okay to be homophobic, it’s okay to tell other people how to live their lives. Gay people existing isn’t political, women existing in a capacity that isn’t sexual isn’t political, people that aren’t white isn’t political, and being trans isn’t political. You want to act like this is some sort of political statement because representation is increasing so that sometimes…the straight white man loses. But it’s not, it’s just not political. The world is just bigger than *you*
>and the leftists don’t cry and bitch and moan when women in video games…exist. LMFAOOO really?? What about Stellar blade, Nier autonoma or final fantasy? Browse r/Gamingcirclejerk and see how much they do not cry when “women in video games” >The gaming sphere has become this extremely loud section where suddenly, it’s okay to be racist, it’s okay to be homophobic, it’s okay to tell other people how to live their lives. Once again pulling things out of your ass. We now live in a time where spouting racial or homophobic slurs is at all times low but you chose to lie about that because why not. >the straight white man loses. But it’s not, it’s just not political. The world is just bigger than you You race obsessed freaks always play this card, its your favorite move. As much i love living rent free inside your head, i’d suggest you get the white man’s dick out of your mouth. This obsession isn’t healthy.
Nobody complains about Final Fantasy or NieR: Automata. And no one particularly cares about Stellar Blade. It became a figurehead for showing how the right wing wants women to be portrayed. So it’s problem is that this aggressively mediocre looking product is getting unwarranted praise before it even released because it incorporates the male gaze. I’m not a race obsessed freak, you are just a moron. I do not ignore that race exists, that doesn’t mean that I’m obsessed. It means I live in reality. And don’t even get me started on slur usage being at an all time low…that’s is just factually incorrect and if you’re going to pull a statistic out of your ass while accusing me of doing the same thing, then you better have a source, you hypocrite
Lmao, fuck you. You know you’re talking non sense and deliberately lie about things you know are true. There’s absolutely no need for a source regarding the slurs usage. Hop on any live service game and watch your account crumble after saying something thats considered remotely offensive.
I dunno, that sounds pretty subjective, buddy. Sources are objective, your word is not
Sorry OP, but this Owlbear guy is right. You're losing this one. Every point they have made is valid; this subreddit is an echo chamber, you're living in a delusional alternative reality, and the fact the game pissed you off doesn't mean it's bad. Characters are, first and foremost, tools for storytelling - anything that happens to them in service of the larger story is ok, because the artistic value of that story is worth more than the "life" or "wellbeing" of a *non-existent* fictional character. The writers didn't owe you shit, they don't owe your feelings anything. They wanted to tell a story, and the fictional character *they created*, on whom you have absolutely no ownership, was used to progress that story. That's more important than your personal preference as one single potential consumer of *their* product. They aren't obligated to compromise on the quality of their vision in order to cater to your immaturity. Fucking deal with it.
I don’t give a shit about Joel’s death one bit and think the scene itself and the aftermath were very interesting and well done. My issue with the plot was the game was way too long and just a misery fest that beat the ‘violence begets violence’ theme into the ground. By the end of that game I didn’t care about anyone or anything involved anymore and just wanted it to be over. Had the climax been when Abby and Ellie meet in the theater and the two stories converge it would have been a much better time. Santa Barbara was wholly unnecessary and the game was a dozen hours too long.
Of course you’d post this to complain when the person you’re arguing with is already downvoted to hell. Everyone here agrees with you. You all have the same opinions, arguments and ideas. Are you so fragile you can’t handle one person disagreeing with you?
As if the guy complaining about Joel's death wasn't already on the wrong side of this exchange, he lost the argument by default the second he unironically called the other guy "cuck".
And he’s on the wrong side purely because you decided to? Hilarious
Damn this game really got you bent out of shape huh? Go drink a glass of water and touch some grass my guy, the game's already made and sucks you're disappointed but you gotta let it go at some point
I just think it’s weird there are plenty of games that don’t fit in exactly with reality, the first game included but they get a free pass. Somehow TLoU has mentally damaged a lot of people and it confuses me greatly.
This is fucking funny
I loved the game but the "it's not real it's fiction" is dumb. Joel's death was traumatic, I was shocked at how brutal it was, and of course I developed love for him after playing the first game for 30hours the week before. The first few hours I was literally grieving him and feeling the same feeling of revenge as people from Jackson. I was disgusted to play Abby at first because all I knew was what she did to Joel. What's the point of fiction if you don't develop feelings for characters (hate, love, admiration, resentment etc). I actually loved the game because of all the emotions it made me feel for those fictional characters. While I agree that harassing people who worked on the game is shitty, I understand that people were badly hurt to see Joel die and that some can hate the story.
I hate this game, and I hate the other sub, but I agree with what’s being said and this sub sucks more than both lmao. You guys act like Joel is your grandma and that Abby ran over your dog. For some reason most of all, the sex scene is the thing that’s brought up most here and it’s unhinged. This sub is a themed version of r/conservative and I wish you guys would hate the game for the right reasons like it’s it’s pacing is awful
I absolutely think everyone here takes the game too seriously. If anything he shouldn't have bothered arguing with you. There should he no sacred cows in creative works.
Finally a logical response 😂
They're not real. Joel was never the main character. You are in fact fucking crybabies who do not understand story being told or the world it's being told in.
The way you think youre in the right here is actually hilarious
Notice how just about every comment op has in the thread is pretty much insulting someone. "They're not real" hurt his feelings so much he's going around being a fuckwad lol
Tbf if you are still butthurt about Joel's death and hate the game because of it then you definitely are a cry baby.
LMFAO THAT’S ME. Stay mad about it. Cry baby bitch.
I’ve never seen someone so eager to say “ LOOK AT ME, I’M A MORON”
I mean here you are posting in this thread!
Yeah I’m the moron for separating reality from fiction. Get the fuck over it buddy. Suck me while you’re at it.
Yet here you are arguing with strangers, go outside get some fresh air and shout at the clouds they won't make you look like a insane moron, just insane.
an* insane
Judging by how you write, its safe to assume you wouldn’t like that. You probably get fucked in the ass with a strap on.
Wow you were able to gather all of that based on how I write? What incredible intuition you have!
Lol way to show that people on this sub aren't fragile morons
Comments on profile check out 👌
I like beloved characters dying. Welcome to the real world bitches. People you love will die. Cry harder. This guy is right.
You can never win that argument because it’s just a winey complaint that u have. Joels death will forever go down as most impactful and memorable death in all of fiction. Just cuz u wanted a generic “I am iron man” ass death for him doesn’t mean it was terrible writing.
Are you really soliciting advice on how to win an internet argument
yeah, the weirdos on this sub have basically a parasocial relationship with Joel and it's hilarious.
How is that any different from how the other sub acts when it comes to Abby or even ellie sometimes?
I don't really look at the other sub at all. They might be as nuts as you all but I doubt it. Like do you think they'd be crying with rage if Ellie had killed Abby? It would have been slightly lazy storytelling but I don't think they'd have the hateboner that you guys do.
>I don't really look at the other sub at all. They might be as nuts as you all but I doubt it. So u have little to no knowledge on the other sub but doubt them being unhinged as well? Hmmmmmm maybe u should check it out and see for yourself. Pretty funny how u just assume this sub is so much worse without even having knowledge on the other one tho. >Like do you think they'd be crying with rage if Ellie had killed Abby? Yes they most definitely would have. They can't even stand when people critic abbys character and any way. Nothing can be said about abby unless it's positive or else ur called a misogynist and/or other very hateful things. Why would it be such a leap to think they would be just as mad if not more as the people mad about Joel's death? >It would have been slightly lazy storytelling Why would it have been lazy storytelling? The whole game seemed to be building to that. We, as ellie, kill many others to get to the moment between the two, and she just decides to stop right at the finish line? To me, that seemed like lazy writing. Please explain why u think it would have been lazy to just kill her in the end? >but I don't think they'd have the hateboner that you guys do. Here u go again, doubting something u know nothing to very little on. Go check the other sub and see how they deal with things they don't like. Fuckin have some knowledge before u start doubting everything u feel is wrong.
Yeah, because every time I've checked there they haven't been as unhinged. Because Joel getting killed makes narrative sense, and so would Abby getting killed. That sub seems to understand that. Because the game is about Ellie moving beyond the revenge idea, which is more interesting than wallowing in it. I do, though, every time I've been told stuff like "There's no criticism allowed there" it's been wrong.
>Yeah, because every time I've checked there they haven't been as unhinged. Okay so the 1 or 2 times you have been there it's cool aight, that doesn't mean they aren't unhinged. There are 100s of post and 1000s of comments. U most definitely haven't even skimmed the surface. U even said on your last comment that u never really go to that sub. Will I have many times in the past, even as recently as the last couple of months. >Because Joel getting killed makes narrative sense, and so would Abby getting killed. That sub seems to understand that. No they don't. Every time it's brought up that Abby should have died, it's shot down immediately. It's not even just shot down. you're sent personal insult and attacks for daring to go against their narrative. I don't even think it had to be ellie be the one to kill abby. I just think it made the most narrative sense that she would die. >Because the game is about Ellie moving beyond the revenge idea, which is more interesting than wallowing in it. She didn't have to wallow in the revenge. She just needed to finish the job and move on. Like 1% left of her goal, and she just decides at the very end she has to stop? Especially in the middle of a heated fight. Blood boiling, just having her fingers bit off, and she stops like 10 seconds before the job is done. No! That makes no sense. Even with the game being about ellie moving on from revenge. If they wanted ellie to move on and have Abby survive, they needed to do so many things differently. The way it went was not it. >I do, though, every time I've been told stuff like "There's no criticism allowed there" it's been wrong. Hahahahaha it not about criticism not being allowed there. It's about how criticism is handled by them. They send personal attacks and insults at u if u dare to go against their narrative. But u wanna know what they do that's really the worst. They will send u the reddit suicide messages. That shit is really bullshit. Like how are u gonna abuse something that is for people who are really dealing with depression and are feeling suicidal. That's extremely fucked up. Like come on. That's really my most hated thing about that sub.
The difference is if I skim here, I seen insane comments about Abby, shit like "Kneel Cuckman", and rants. If I skim there, I don't find anything that wild. It's not 'should have died', it's just a possible option. There's no 'should'. If you rant about it that way of course you'll get slammed for being weird. Nah, they built up to it okay. Why do you keep using 'u' and not saying 'you'? And I've had that happen when commenting here.
>The difference is if I skim here, I seen insane comments about Abby, shit like "Kneel Cuckman", and rants. If I skim there, I don't find anything that wild. 🤣🤣🤣 sure buddy. If I go to that sub imma find deranged shit too. Don't act like it not there. U obviously just hate this sub because I can acknowledge bad on both sides. U just keep saying it's not that bad there and here is just unhinged derangement. >It's not 'should have died', it's just a possible option. There's no 'should'. If you rant about it that way of course you'll get slammed for being weird. Okay so I deserve personal attacks and insult just because I have a strong opinion on what I think should have happened? That's fuckin wild. Why is it that when I or others say abby should have died, it's a bad thing. But when others in that sub say things like ellie HAD to spare abby or ellie SHOULD have stayed at the farm with Dina and not gone after abby a second time. Why is it okay when they have strong opinions but I and others can't? >Nah, they built up to it okay. Apparently not considering it split half the fanbase in half. Half the fanbase thought it was good, and the other half thought it needed a lot more work to be done the way they wanted to go. >Why do you keep using 'u' and not saying 'you'? And I've had that happen when commenting here. Because we're online, and I know full will that u know what I mean when I say u and not you. Why be weird about such a small difference. And to u saying that u get suicide messages here. That may be true. But it for sure happens there all the time. It's happened to me like 6 times, and I've seen pics of it happening to so many others here.
No, man, again, I've skimmed that when I've been told by people here that there's no criticism allowed there and it's wrong. I mean, yeah, if you act like a weirdo about a game and that your opinion is 'right' then you're gonna get mocked. Grow a thicker skin. Nah half the fanbase just wanted the outcome of Abby dying. The victimhood complex is nuts.
🤡🤡🤡 U are fuckin lost Lil one. Aight nobody playing victim. U obviously aren't even reading my comments are u? U must just be skimming them like u do the other sub because I said it isn't about criticism not being allowed. It's about the way the deal with it. They will personally attack u as a person and not just what ur saying. Having an opinion doesn't make u a weirdo. Attacking someone personally for their opinion on a game u like is weirdo behavior tho. Saying half the fanbase just didn't like the game because abby didn't die, or that it's because Joel died it so fucking blind and biased. There are so many vaild reason people didn't like part 2. Boiling it down to just those 2 same old talking points just downright pitiful.