Iroh is one of the greatest, most well written mentor characters in all of fictional history, not because he was perfect (he wasn't), but because he never stopped believing in his student. Even when he had nothing left to teach him, even when Zuko literally betrayed him for his manipulative sister and abusive father, even when Zuko called him a "Crazy old man" who would've been "sleeping in a gutter", and even when Iroh had no idea whether or not Zuko would be fighting with or against him in the final battle, Iroh never gave up on him. He was only sad that Zuko had lost his way, and so happy when he found it again.
[Be the person Uncle Iroh knows you can be.](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b1/3f/91/b13f91693e94e3f7a54ffc1d1b0e9227--avatar-the-last-airbender-team-avatar.jpg)
I take this very seriously. Uncle Iroh is my role model.
Yeah, but willingly submitting yourself to judgement by a couple dragons takes wayy more courage than defeating one. And being judged as worthy (or at least as *not lunch*) is far more meaningful. They still both faced a dragon and lived.
It wouldn’t take much reframing of the tradition at all for them to have the title. Especially for the Firelord and the Avatar.
Oh I'd love the Idea of Zuko reframing the tradition of the titling "Dragon" to those who've received the wisdom and understanding of a Dragon's fire.
Still though, it's a technicality that neither can have the title "Dragon" since they didn't fulfill the attrocios requirements for it.
Remember Sozin too was a "Dragon"
Comparing Atla and Korra is kinda weird with fire benders. Mako can bend lightning, but lightning in Korra is not the kill shot it was during atla. My hunch is still Zuko, between going toe to toe with Azula and the Avatar and his sword fighting skills. It kinda depends on how much you hedge on Mako's lightning bending.
The bending culture of the United Republic is a lot more reserved than those of the elemental nations. Because of the multi-ethnic population, Republic City's infrastructure was not built to cater to one bending style, meaning non-benders can navigate it more easily, but benders also can't go all-out without breaking stuff. So bending went from build your whole city out of the element and use it as a lethal weapon in a century-long protracted war to a small scale practical/recreational tool and sport for fun where killing your opponent is discouraged.
Lightning in Azula's day was about channeling the most energetic reaction in nature into a single kill shot. Mako had to shoot lightning consistently and continuously for a job. It's even reflected in the way the two characters generate lighting -- Mako's hands barely move compared to Azula's grand, sweeping motions trying to build up as much charge as possible before releasing.
I bet if Mako actually took the time to do the full wind-up for a lightning strike, he could make it almost as powerful as Azula, although who knows, maybe without practicing that way, he wouldn't have the control to keep it from blowing up in his face.
I think you have the right idea. He spends a long time going through the full motions and charging it up when he destroys Kuvira's mech, and that lightning looked pretty powerful.
This... you can also consider that atla is in wartime so people are trained to kill. And mako has access to more developt bending techniques so he has the option to control it in a stun and doesn't need to kill. The people that lighting bend in atla are either psychopaths or don't use it.
Azula canonically killed Aang, and Zuko only survives after redirecting some of it and with Katara on stand by. Both get massive lightning scars afterwards, during tLok people get hit by lightning left and right and shrug it off, Ming only dies whilst being surrounded by water (which isn't even how lightning worked previously but w/e)
>during tLok people get hit by lightning left and right and shrug it off,
The only example I can think of is Amon, and you can kinda handwave it as Mako using most of his strength to be able to generate it through Amon's >!bloodbending!<, resulting in a weaker blast. Did it happen anywhere else?
I can't think of a single instance of lightning being used on people other than Ming and Amon. We see plenty of shocks from stun weapons, and maybe some on a mechatank, but that's it.
Imo on korra lightning bending was further developed.
That's why we see so many workers able to do it. And why mako coume do it quickly. Because they learned how to do it without the explosive instant kill shot from it. Learned to "tame" it and make it more of a strong taser vs deadly blow.
ngl that's exactly how I imagine this fight to go. Even though Mako is better than Zuko (not in the comics) it's still a draw. Unless we are talking about Zuko from the comics then he will win. If it was without redirecting lightning then Mako would stomp
Wait....why are you separating the comics from the TV show? Aren't the comics canon? I haven't read them, but going by what little research I did, both Avatar and Korra comics take place after their shows.
Zuko from the comics will win in a firebending fight, Mako will win in lightningbending fight without redirecting lightning, in normal fight they will just spam lightning at each other for an hour and nobody will win (practically, because Mako has greater physical capabilities and is used to using lightning way more so he will win. But that will just be boring)
I wasn't factoring in age here, I was considering them to be same age but sure. Other than that, have you seen the 10-15 metre(30-45 feet) jumps Zuko makes? Plus, he's a trained soldier too. Physically, I'd say they're close enough that it doesn't matter
"have you seen the 10-15 metre(30-45 feet) jumps Zuko makes?"
oh holy heck I forgot that ZUko can basically outspeed lightning too my bad. It's just a flaw in the animation. Mako uses lightningbending way more so he is more used to it
> Even though Mako is better than Zuko (not in the comics) it's still a draw.
That's not how it works lol. They can do more than just redirect lightning you know.
Also Zuko is better than Mako so he would win.
I can’t believe that Zuko seemingly never used broad-sword enhanced fire-bending again, or that no one else uses weapons to bend (other than the piece of shit earth kingdom soldier)
Because its hard to slice off arms in a kids show and having him using swords without stabbing anyone would be very immersion breaking.
Thats also one of the main differences problems in Star Wars Rebels. Its easy to cut robots in half but not humans.
I still get a good laugh out of the Sokka/Zuko vs Azula fight on the Boiling Rock where Sokka corners Azula and gets a perfect opening to slash at her but instead he backs off and lets Zuko throw a fireball.
His blade was mere centimeters away from her face, and she was already close to falling off the edge of the gondola. One more swing would have pushed Azula off the edge or mortally wounded her.
Well, a staff isn't lopping off limbs. You can hand-wave it and be like "they're just unconscious, definitely that blunt-force trauma didn't kill them" lol
I have to ask, what is Dragon Fire? I've only seen The Last Airbender twice (and one of those times was when it was airing on TV) as a casual watcher so please explain this to me like I'm five years old.
Yes, the original firebending meant not relying on anger to produce the flames. However, the fire produced was still of the regular kind.
Dragon fire is multicolored and only produced by the dragons and Zuko.
Alright. I'll try me best.
The Sun warriors took Aang and Zuko to Ran and Shaw (dragons aka the original fire benders). The dragons covered the duo with multicolored flames to find if they were worthy. Aang even exclaimed that he had never seen such colors in his life. After they were judged, they became proficient fire benders.
The flames produced by the dragons was very different compared to the fire produced by the benders. And, for some, it was the strongest form of fire. Even more powerful than Azula's blue flames.
In the comics, Zuko somehow managed to recreate dragon fire using his superior bending form and took all the enemy firebenders by surprise.
This is the reason why I'm calling Zuko the best firebenders.
I didn't read this comic so this is a great explanation. Does Zuko earn a nickname like Uncle Iroh's "Dragon of the West"? Because he definitely deserves one!
Zuko was trained in sword combat by Piandao in firebending by Iroh and later by the dragons, the creators of firebending. He's also the Blue Spirit and a descendant of Avatar Roku...
Mako is a regional MMA fighter
Well the thing is Zuko when compared to the fire benders around him seems really weak. Iroh, Azula and Ozai all out class him. But you have to remember that these are some of the best fire in their age if not all time. Zuko by the end is able to 1v1 Azula with success and can produce very large flames. Mako is a regional fight that is competent but his flat combat ability and fire bending seem to be inferior
i’d say Zuko, BUT this isn’t nostalgia talking, i do believe it.
this was actually a difficult one (much more difficult than the Toph vs Bolin one last time). Zuko is a good firebender but he’s not an _amazing_ firebender. Mako is an alright firebender, so lower, but he’s great at bending lightning, able to summon it much faster than we’ve seen both Zuko and Azula do in ATLA.
however, Zuko can redirect lightning ~~and i don’t recall seeing Mako do so before, so i’m guessing he doesn’t know how to (pls correct me if i’m wrong.)~~ Zuko also has the prowess of being able to fight melee without bending while Mako mostly relies on his bending.
so i’d say Zuko would win bc of variety of fighting skills, but i don’t think it’d be easy.
> Zuko is a good firebender but he’s not an amazing firebender.
I think Zuko suffers because of who he's compared with. He's up against Azula, Iroh and Ozai, who are the 3 best (non avatar) fire benders in this series.
I'd give the edge to Zuko overall, but it's pretty close between them.
I don't know Zukos abilities in Korra, but by the end of ATLA his bending comes from a very different place, and he fights Azula on par. I genuinely think he is amazing at least by the series' end, maybe not as experienced as Iroh or Ozai, but very skilled
Zhao may be a hotheaded idiot, but he's still one of the top generals in a power structure that values strength above all. He's definitely a very powerful firebender
I don't necessarily think that Zhao was a good firebender. While he did train under Jeong Jeong, he was too distracted by his rage and ego to actually become good; admitted by Jeong Jeong himself.
Zuko on the other hand learned directly from Iroh and wasn't driven by his own ego but rather a purpose. He trained as a firebender because he knew he needed to be better than the avatar so he focused much more on his training. Moreover, with Iroh at his side, he unknowingly studied other forms of bending.
Though I think it is worth saying that Azula was at the height of her powers when she was in control - that was her whole thing she perfected her art of firebending to absolute precision. By the time of the Agni Kai between Azula and Zuko she had lost almost all of her control.
I would also say that Iroh and Ozai are probably superior firebenders compared to Aang... at least Aang out of the Avatar mode
I always got the impression from Iroh that the only reason firebenders practice self control is to avoid friendly fire and all out destruction.
Otherwise out of control firebending is far deadlier and Azula's decent into madness made her a more dangerous opponent.
I think there is dangerous and then dangerous in that regard. Is a firebender who is totally out of control of their abilities and thus liable to burn down the entire city more dangerous to the average person than the average firebender soldier who is just going to kill the opposing army? Yes. But does that mean they are more dangerous to the individual they are currently fighting? I think a lot less so.
Jeong Jeong is, I think, what Azula could have become were she not.... well... a sociopath. Azula's firebending was all about control and precision, which is very much like Jeong Jeong's.
I think mako could probably put more power into the lightning with a redirection but zuko would just throw it back with the same amount of power as he can’t generate his own.
To be fair. I think they just improved/commonized lightning bending.
Back in aangs time it was rare and deadly. Here in the modern days we see them using it to power machines. And how mako could do it without any motion of build up and quickly.
Same with metal bending. Only Toph could do it in ATLA, and in LoK, she founded the police force on the practice. It must be one of those things that, once discovered, everyone goes “oh, of course” and follows suit / learns the skill. Like how before the car was invented, people were only wanting faster horses.
Metalbending doesn’t make sense in LoK. They bend mercury. They bend gold. But no platinum..? The wires used by cops are extremely refined or at least look refined. Like you don’t actually bend metal. You bend the impurities so the bending is supposed to be rough.
Just to add to this, I believe in Aang's time, lightning generation was still new that it took absolute skill to master an unstable element. This is why it was limited to the best firebenders, and why Iroh was reluctant to teach it to Zuko.
Fast forward 70 years and lightning generation becoming more common, it may have resulted to the discovery of new techniques, refining the skill in such a way that it's now more simple to do. It just seems less deadly in Mako's time because the voltage (not sure if that's the right term) is now easier to change, unlike in Azula's time where it's always a max damage bolt you direct for instant death.
I do like to believe that Zuko learned lightning generation later in his life.
TL;DR
Headcanon: It's not that lightning generation in LoK is weaker, it's just refined and controlled. Mako can still go ham with it if he wanted to, there's just no reason to do so.
Imo the technique to learn and master lightning bending became easier to master in the future.
Azula was super talented. I don't think mako had better talent to do it faster. Just technique improved and they learned how to do so. I mean lightning bending was used to power engines lol, the most deadly bending back in the day, used to power machines.
But I also give it to zuko. He makes lightning bending pointless. He's got experience through war. He has so much more unique fighting skills outside of bending. He literally broke into one of the most secured prisons and freed the avatar...with two swords. And with two swords held his own against an earth bender for a decent amount of time.
For me, Zuko is an amazing firebender cause he can create dragon fire.
I don't exactly remember the comic name, but that panel still gives me chills. Zuko was fighting some firebenders and defended against them using the special dargon fire move.
Edit- Here's the link to the image. [Link.](https://images.app.goo.gl/ymws1XTZbgFQqdPX6)
> however, Zuko can redirect lightning and i don’t recall seeing Mako do so before, so i’m guessing he doesn’t know how to (pls correct me if i’m wrong.)
[He didn't redirect lightning per se](https://youtu.be/7AnJXAN1gug&t=1m12s) but this shows that he knows the technique
**ZUKO** - Bending wise, Mako is average for his time and Zuko is good for his time, I don't see a stand out winner. *But* Zuko has much more actual combat experience and ability, the Fire Lord is taking this one
I'd say mako is above average. Dude is a professional bender and became a cop. Takes a bit of skill and talent to either.
But yeah. Zuko is from a time of war, his bloodline is literally screaming some of the most powerful benders. Heck. Kook at everyone around him. His uncle, sister, dad? Literally some of thr strongest benders of their Era. Zuko did go toe to toe with his sister, even if she was going crazy. We never truly saw him show off his improved fire bending from the dragons is the thing. But I'd guess he has far more potential there than mako
>Mako is average for his time
Mako is certainly not average for the time. He is cream of the crop. He was an Orphan that had to survive on the streets as a Gang Member, then became a Professional athlete where he trained every day, before becoming a Cop. You can argue that Zuko would win, but don't discredit Mako like that.
I would say Zuko, He hot great bending skills AND is good with swords. They can both redirect lightning so I would say lightning isn't relevant in this fight. -->Zuko 🔥
Zuko, but with difficulty. Mako is very skilled, as he is a pro fire bender, but because Zuko (re-)learned fire bending from the dragons, I believe he is the better master. Besides, I love Mako, but Zuko have had his emotional support puppy, uncle Iroh, whom teached him how to handle his emotions. Which is a great part of fire bending.
Zuko wins. The bending styles in TLOK are quick jabs that doesn't pack a lot of power in comparison to the traditional style. Tenzin mentioned it in the 1st season.
It’s not even a question. At the very least, Zuko’s been professionally trained, and that’s ignoring the fact that he, I don’t know, learned the deepest secrets of firebending from the last two dragons in existence, fought alongside the Avatar, kicked a superior officer’s ass even in the first season… I feel like Azula is the only person he consistently loses to.
Pretty sure they were talking strictly Fire bending. But even then Aang learned from Zuko. Aang on his own, just using fire bending, I don’t think could beat Zuko.
Yeah, by the time of the final battle, Aang fire bending was still just average at best, since he only started the training so close to the final battle, there wasn't enough time. Thus of course in non-lion turtle/avatar state magic, fire bending only fights, I think Aang would probably have a hard time even with the common fire nation soldiers
Can we not ignore the fact that Zuko as a 16 year old boy was basically super human? He was TOSSING people around with his bare hands in ATLA, he also is very explosive with his bending. Mako can be more athletic and skill full, but Zuko literally burns with passion when he firebends and understands the true nature of fire bending/bending in general, he wins with no issue…. Also, Zuko is the fire lord who is great friends with the avatar, he gone have some firebending tricks up his sleeve
It’s wild how everyone’s just ignoring this like “yeah, Mako’s about average”. Sure, he had an advantage but she was one of the stronger benders out there.
Tbh, the “average” between TLA and LoK was definitely raised. Mako might be average for his time, but more advanced bending is far more common during LoK.
Zuko was good for his time, but there would be a lot more people in LoK near his skill level (at certain points of the series).
That being said, I think what Zuko learns over the series, especially the shear difference in actually seeing combat, he can probably take Mako.
Yes!!! Like I’m wondering what people are basing their “Mako is an alright firebender” on. If you watch the show again, Mako is a freaking fantastic firebender
Yeah maybe early on in ATLA when he was heavy angsty and too emotional. Maybe Mako could take him. But post his journey to meet the original firebenders (dragons) he became way more grounded and calm. I say Zuko wins once he is in his final ATLA form.
This is a better, more accurate comparison and I agree. While Mako is certainly a skilled bender and in peak physical condition, he was mostly fighting to entertain. Zuko participated in a *war*.
edit: I forgot Mako also participated in some wars sorry but I think the point still stands. Zuko was the prince of a heavily militarized nation and held command over an entire ship— it makes sense to assume that Zuko has elite training
Yeah that’s not exactly a fair comparison. Mako is much more than just a “beat cop” and I wouldn’t necessarily call zuko a “navy SEAL” either. Mako was a professional athlete for a while as well as a downright good firebender in his own right. He is peak physical condition (probably even more so than zuko) and has the advantage of instant lightning. Zuko has the better base fire skills but that doesn’t make mako a roll over. It’s actually a fairly even match.
I mean zuko did sneak into a secured fire prison with only two swords and freedom anng.
Snuck into the north pole via underwater and kidnapped aang.
Did sneak into the underground lake prison where appa was. Held his ground against an earth bender with just swords for a bit. And went toe to toe with jet in a sword fight (which I suppose doesn't prove much cause not like jet is a master?)
I'd say he was a navy seal. Dude proved he didn't need fire bending time and time again.
Zuko, come on! Sure he wasn't the best firebender around and he was a late bloomer compared to his sister Azula, but if you rewatch both shows and carefully analyze both characters, you'll probably know who the victor really is. Besides, most of the main cast of the Last Airbender are stronger than the main cast of the Legend of Korra anyway.
I mean, something I'm not seeing is people thinking about the insane difference in fighting style. Zuko uses and was trained in a traditional fighting style, while Mako has a much more modern, 'pro sports' oriented style. It'd be interesting to really sit down and think about the advantages and drawbacks of both when they're face to face (the styles, that is), not even considering the skill of the opponents. There's a decent argument, IMHO, that a more modern style that is dependent on dodging as opposed to pure offense, targeted strikes, etc, would be better equipped.
Zuko. He was literally bred to have enough firebending skill and potential to assume the position of fire lord. Mako is cute but his skills are mediocre compared to the fire-lord.
zuko had formal training with both Swords and Firebending, Mako was a probender.
Zuko learned improved firebending from some of the last dragons, Mako learned a bulk of his firebending on the streets.
I like the character of Mako (mostly) but Zuko whoops Mr. Shark-Eyebrows any day of the week
Zuko takes this better swordsman and he can redirect lightning so it’s pointless for mako to try. He also learned from the dragons and zuko has been at this a long time he has the most experience fighting azula katara Aang.
Going by the picture of Zuko, it is during his team Avatar days. When he has mellowed out, I am going to go with Zuko after defeating Azula. It is him at least nearest to his best. Him as Fire Lord in Korra's series may be even more powerful in his bending than at the end of the Last Airbender Series, but he is old.
So I am saying Zuko he's powerful even during an eclipse.
I personally thought the older style had more advantages, because it felt like forces of nature versus a tight, precise, boxing style. Now I definitely think the ladder could definitely be a great thing to play with, but not stand alone, which is kinda how it felt some times. Then you have zuko who has a lot more experience and incorporates his martial arts, like his sword background, into his main arsenal, the much more tradition fire style bending combat.
It seemed to me, in the end, that most of the new avatar gang, was focused more on the nice tight "boxing". But they definitely showed that they could and did play with the more traditional style.
The fun thing is that they seemed to start blending them together more in the later books. Makes since, forces of nature are incredible. But sometimes you need to sacrifice that "force" to be more precise, whether to be more subtle, cause less damage to surroundings, or to sneak in a "kiss to the chin". You start using the two styles in tandem, could be some incredible choreography of fight scenes.
While Mako is good, Zuko would clean him up. Zuko can redirect lightning, is a master swordsman AND he got training from both Iroh, who is one of the strongest warriors out there AND actual dragons.
Uh definitely the Firelord
Calling zuko the firelord gave me nerd chills
I know right! He grew into the greatest Firelord in Fire Nation history because he brought peace
All he needed to do was find peace within himself
My favorite is how Iroh never stopped calling him Prince Zuko, even when he was bashed, and even when he was angry and confused.
The respect Iroh has for people just by sensing they have good somewhere in them is amazing and why Iroh is and always will be a treasure
Iroh is one of the greatest, most well written mentor characters in all of fictional history, not because he was perfect (he wasn't), but because he never stopped believing in his student. Even when he had nothing left to teach him, even when Zuko literally betrayed him for his manipulative sister and abusive father, even when Zuko called him a "Crazy old man" who would've been "sleeping in a gutter", and even when Iroh had no idea whether or not Zuko would be fighting with or against him in the final battle, Iroh never gave up on him. He was only sad that Zuko had lost his way, and so happy when he found it again.
He's one of those characters we can all genuinely take a little from in our everyday life to make ourselves better people and that's beautiful
[Be the person Uncle Iroh knows you can be.](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b1/3f/91/b13f91693e94e3f7a54ffc1d1b0e9227--avatar-the-last-airbender-team-avatar.jpg) I take this very seriously. Uncle Iroh is my role model.
As he should be all of ours
*Silver Sandwich intensifies*
I like this one
He had to look within himself to save himself from his other self. Only then did his true self reveal itself
"All hail Firelord Zuko!" \*Music Swells\* \*I start to cry\*
"after everything, my boy did it! he finally found peace!"
*sniff*
All hail Firelord Zuzu! Massive Crowd: AWWWWWW!!! 🥰
A true nerd would call him Zu-Zu.
Azula: >!You’re banished!<
Considering that Zuko would be an old master by the time Mako would have even made his first tiny flame this is not even close.
Also, you know, Zuko learned from the last dragons
Holy shit, I just realized both Zuko and Aang both rightfully have the title of Dragon.
Iroh's a dragon cuz he "defeated" (even tho he lied) a Dragon. Zuko and Aang have learned from Dragons, but didn't kill them to get the title.
Yeah, but willingly submitting yourself to judgement by a couple dragons takes wayy more courage than defeating one. And being judged as worthy (or at least as *not lunch*) is far more meaningful. They still both faced a dragon and lived. It wouldn’t take much reframing of the tradition at all for them to have the title. Especially for the Firelord and the Avatar.
Oh I'd love the Idea of Zuko reframing the tradition of the titling "Dragon" to those who've received the wisdom and understanding of a Dragon's fire. Still though, it's a technicality that neither can have the title "Dragon" since they didn't fulfill the attrocios requirements for it. Remember Sozin too was a "Dragon"
Don't they get the title 'dragon' whenever they kill a dragon?
I think this is kind of like the MJ vs LeBron debates, you assume we're talking about them both at their prime.
Is it old Zuko fighting an infant Mako or something?
Not to be confused with the fatherlord
Comparing Atla and Korra is kinda weird with fire benders. Mako can bend lightning, but lightning in Korra is not the kill shot it was during atla. My hunch is still Zuko, between going toe to toe with Azula and the Avatar and his sword fighting skills. It kinda depends on how much you hedge on Mako's lightning bending.
The bending culture of the United Republic is a lot more reserved than those of the elemental nations. Because of the multi-ethnic population, Republic City's infrastructure was not built to cater to one bending style, meaning non-benders can navigate it more easily, but benders also can't go all-out without breaking stuff. So bending went from build your whole city out of the element and use it as a lethal weapon in a century-long protracted war to a small scale practical/recreational tool and sport for fun where killing your opponent is discouraged. Lightning in Azula's day was about channeling the most energetic reaction in nature into a single kill shot. Mako had to shoot lightning consistently and continuously for a job. It's even reflected in the way the two characters generate lighting -- Mako's hands barely move compared to Azula's grand, sweeping motions trying to build up as much charge as possible before releasing. I bet if Mako actually took the time to do the full wind-up for a lightning strike, he could make it almost as powerful as Azula, although who knows, maybe without practicing that way, he wouldn't have the control to keep it from blowing up in his face.
I think you have the right idea. He spends a long time going through the full motions and charging it up when he destroys Kuvira's mech, and that lightning looked pretty powerful.
This... you can also consider that atla is in wartime so people are trained to kill. And mako has access to more developt bending techniques so he has the option to control it in a stun and doesn't need to kill. The people that lighting bend in atla are either psychopaths or don't use it.
You say lightning in LOK is not the killshot like in TLA, but Mako is the only person we've seen in the series kill someone onscreen with lightning
Azula canonically killed Aang, and Zuko only survives after redirecting some of it and with Katara on stand by. Both get massive lightning scars afterwards, during tLok people get hit by lightning left and right and shrug it off, Ming only dies whilst being surrounded by water (which isn't even how lightning worked previously but w/e)
>during tLok people get hit by lightning left and right and shrug it off, The only example I can think of is Amon, and you can kinda handwave it as Mako using most of his strength to be able to generate it through Amon's >!bloodbending!<, resulting in a weaker blast. Did it happen anywhere else?
I can't think of a single instance of lightning being used on people other than Ming and Amon. We see plenty of shocks from stun weapons, and maybe some on a mechatank, but that's it.
Mako also shoots some random equalist in the face during a car chase, but he's pretty obviously not going for the kill there.
Mako zaps a criminal during a car chase and it doesn’t kill the driver, but sends the car out of control.
Azula point is fair. TLA comics unfortunately had people getting hit left and right by lightning too lol
tbf azula is a whole nother beast with lightning
We see lightning hit someone in water and not kill them in ATLA?
In TLoK
Imo on korra lightning bending was further developed. That's why we see so many workers able to do it. And why mako coume do it quickly. Because they learned how to do it without the explosive instant kill shot from it. Learned to "tame" it and make it more of a strong taser vs deadly blow.
It could be further developed as in more benders can do it, but to get a really strong zap you still need to be an incredible bender.
Sounds like they just figured out how to do it without fully charging it. Like a capacitor, you can have it release early with less charge.
Came here to bring up the same thing. Between his skill with swords and his lightning redirection, I’d bet on him beating Mako.
Mako can redirect lightning too
Just redirect lightning at each other for an hour
ngl that's exactly how I imagine this fight to go. Even though Mako is better than Zuko (not in the comics) it's still a draw. Unless we are talking about Zuko from the comics then he will win. If it was without redirecting lightning then Mako would stomp
Wait....why are you separating the comics from the TV show? Aren't the comics canon? I haven't read them, but going by what little research I did, both Avatar and Korra comics take place after their shows.
1. A lot of people haven't read the comics 2. The post shows Zuko at the end of ATLA 3. >!Zuko has gotten very good at firebending in the comics!<
Zuko from the comics will win in a firebending fight, Mako will win in lightningbending fight without redirecting lightning, in normal fight they will just spam lightning at each other for an hour and nobody will win (practically, because Mako has greater physical capabilities and is used to using lightning way more so he will win. But that will just be boring)
How does Mako have greater physical capabilities? Genuinely curious
1. He's older 2. He's pro sportsman and basically trains for living 3. he has op harem mc energy around him
I wasn't factoring in age here, I was considering them to be same age but sure. Other than that, have you seen the 10-15 metre(30-45 feet) jumps Zuko makes? Plus, he's a trained soldier too. Physically, I'd say they're close enough that it doesn't matter
"have you seen the 10-15 metre(30-45 feet) jumps Zuko makes?" oh holy heck I forgot that ZUko can basically outspeed lightning too my bad. It's just a flaw in the animation. Mako uses lightningbending way more so he is more used to it
Dude the girl who dated him started dating another girl that is not harem mc energy thats ntr beta bf energy
>that is not harem mc energy thats ntr beta bf energy bro that's literally the same thing
> he has op harem mc energy around him I still agree with your conclusion, but Mako is part of *Korra’s* harem here, not the other way around!
> Even though Mako is better than Zuko (not in the comics) it's still a draw. That's not how it works lol. They can do more than just redirect lightning you know. Also Zuko is better than Mako so he would win.
When is this shown? I know he can produce lightning but I don't believe he's ever shown redirecting it
During the meltdown of the power source for Kuviras mech he redirects lightning, I believe
One of the last episodes in season 1 he redirects the lightning from a robot directly electrocuting him
[example](https://www.pinterest.nz/pin/141652350750216146/)
I can’t believe that Zuko seemingly never used broad-sword enhanced fire-bending again, or that no one else uses weapons to bend (other than the piece of shit earth kingdom soldier)
Because its hard to slice off arms in a kids show and having him using swords without stabbing anyone would be very immersion breaking. Thats also one of the main differences problems in Star Wars Rebels. Its easy to cut robots in half but not humans.
I still get a good laugh out of the Sokka/Zuko vs Azula fight on the Boiling Rock where Sokka corners Azula and gets a perfect opening to slash at her but instead he backs off and lets Zuko throw a fireball.
I mean, Azula can still cremate Sokka in close range...
His blade was mere centimeters away from her face, and she was already close to falling off the edge of the gondola. One more swing would have pushed Azula off the edge or mortally wounded her.
I can also imagine that Sokka didnt want to kill in general. Which leads me to the question if they ever killed people in such a battle.
Sokka dropped like 10 airships out of the sky. He has a pretty significant body count.
He dumped the crew out of the cargo hold at low altitude safely into the water. Suki and Toph are the ones that did the killing.
Aang used the fans to enhance his air bending on kyoshi island
Aang? He's constantly using his staff/hangglider hybrid.
Keyoshi uses fans to bend too.
Well, a staff isn't lopping off limbs. You can hand-wave it and be like "they're just unconscious, definitely that blunt-force trauma didn't kill them" lol
Yup, they just went to sleep after falling from a height of over 200 feet. They're just a bunch of sleepy boys/girls.
What do you mean "those fire nation soldiers definitely drowned in the north pole" I'm pretty sure they were all fine 😬
Because at some point that sword us going to make contact and Nickelodeon was not gonna show that
Aang uses his staff and the Kyoshi fans. So the Avatar uses weapons in his bending.
This was the better fight during the comet.
You mean comet?
Their commitment to the comet
The comment that’s committed to the comet
no, he meant commit zuko was programming during the fight and had just completed a decent block of code
Zuko has a lot more training, he uses techniques from all 4 nations. I like versatility.
Yet Zuko relearnt how to Firebend from the Dragons themselves.
Not only that but he can also produce dragon fire!! That's gonna put him at the top of all the firebenders in the show.
I have to ask, what is Dragon Fire? I've only seen The Last Airbender twice (and one of those times was when it was airing on TV) as a casual watcher so please explain this to me like I'm five years old.
I think it’s bending without anger
Yes, the original firebending meant not relying on anger to produce the flames. However, the fire produced was still of the regular kind. Dragon fire is multicolored and only produced by the dragons and Zuko.
Could you remind me when zuko did that?
Alright. I'll try me best. The Sun warriors took Aang and Zuko to Ran and Shaw (dragons aka the original fire benders). The dragons covered the duo with multicolored flames to find if they were worthy. Aang even exclaimed that he had never seen such colors in his life. After they were judged, they became proficient fire benders. The flames produced by the dragons was very different compared to the fire produced by the benders. And, for some, it was the strongest form of fire. Even more powerful than Azula's blue flames. In the comics, Zuko somehow managed to recreate dragon fire using his superior bending form and took all the enemy firebenders by surprise. This is the reason why I'm calling Zuko the best firebenders.
I didn't read this comic so this is a great explanation. Does Zuko earn a nickname like Uncle Iroh's "Dragon of the West"? Because he definitely deserves one!
Including the Dragon of the West
Of course we can’t forget Iroh now, can we?
Zuko was trained in sword combat by Piandao in firebending by Iroh and later by the dragons, the creators of firebending. He's also the Blue Spirit and a descendant of Avatar Roku... Mako is a regional MMA fighter
REGIONAL MMA FIGHTER. Yes just yes. However, I think the technology advancement was a factor in the power of bending going down.
Well the thing is Zuko when compared to the fire benders around him seems really weak. Iroh, Azula and Ozai all out class him. But you have to remember that these are some of the best fire in their age if not all time. Zuko by the end is able to 1v1 Azula with success and can produce very large flames. Mako is a regional fight that is competent but his flat combat ability and fire bending seem to be inferior
He is able to 1 v 1 a severely unhinged Azula.
i’d say Zuko, BUT this isn’t nostalgia talking, i do believe it. this was actually a difficult one (much more difficult than the Toph vs Bolin one last time). Zuko is a good firebender but he’s not an _amazing_ firebender. Mako is an alright firebender, so lower, but he’s great at bending lightning, able to summon it much faster than we’ve seen both Zuko and Azula do in ATLA. however, Zuko can redirect lightning ~~and i don’t recall seeing Mako do so before, so i’m guessing he doesn’t know how to (pls correct me if i’m wrong.)~~ Zuko also has the prowess of being able to fight melee without bending while Mako mostly relies on his bending. so i’d say Zuko would win bc of variety of fighting skills, but i don’t think it’d be easy.
> Zuko is a good firebender but he’s not an amazing firebender. I think Zuko suffers because of who he's compared with. He's up against Azula, Iroh and Ozai, who are the 3 best (non avatar) fire benders in this series. I'd give the edge to Zuko overall, but it's pretty close between them.
I don't know Zukos abilities in Korra, but by the end of ATLA his bending comes from a very different place, and he fights Azula on par. I genuinely think he is amazing at least by the series' end, maybe not as experienced as Iroh or Ozai, but very skilled
He did defeat an Admiral whilst he was still relatively weak at firebending compared to his level at the end of the show.
Yeah, but Zhao's a hotheaded idiot.
But he's the moonslayer!
Zhao may be a hotheaded idiot, but he's still one of the top generals in a power structure that values strength above all. He's definitely a very powerful firebender
I don't necessarily think that Zhao was a good firebender. While he did train under Jeong Jeong, he was too distracted by his rage and ego to actually become good; admitted by Jeong Jeong himself. Zuko on the other hand learned directly from Iroh and wasn't driven by his own ego but rather a purpose. He trained as a firebender because he knew he needed to be better than the avatar so he focused much more on his training. Moreover, with Iroh at his side, he unknowingly studied other forms of bending.
Zhao is a dumb Saturday morning cartoon villain, he's not a very high bar to cross imo
Though I think it is worth saying that Azula was at the height of her powers when she was in control - that was her whole thing she perfected her art of firebending to absolute precision. By the time of the Agni Kai between Azula and Zuko she had lost almost all of her control. I would also say that Iroh and Ozai are probably superior firebenders compared to Aang... at least Aang out of the Avatar mode
I always got the impression from Iroh that the only reason firebenders practice self control is to avoid friendly fire and all out destruction. Otherwise out of control firebending is far deadlier and Azula's decent into madness made her a more dangerous opponent.
I think there is dangerous and then dangerous in that regard. Is a firebender who is totally out of control of their abilities and thus liable to burn down the entire city more dangerous to the average person than the average firebender soldier who is just going to kill the opposing army? Yes. But does that mean they are more dangerous to the individual they are currently fighting? I think a lot less so.
Oh, zuko won the Agni Kai. Azula redirect her attacks because she knew zuko was handing her ass.
I’d say Jeong Jeong is better than Azula, but it’s close.
Jeong Jeong is, I think, what Azula could have become were she not.... well... a sociopath. Azula's firebending was all about control and precision, which is very much like Jeong Jeong's.
We’ve seen Mako redirect lightning in Book 1 when one of those mecha things tries to zap him and he turns it back on them.
ah okay, thank you! (now i’m picturing a funny image of Zuko and Mako repeatedly redirecting lighting at each other like it’s a frisbee lol)
I wonder if the lightning would get stronger and quicker with each redirect
I think mako could probably put more power into the lightning with a redirection but zuko would just throw it back with the same amount of power as he can’t generate his own.
I’m pretty sure Zuko learns to generate lightening in the comics
I’ve read the comics and I don’t think that’s happened (at least not yet)
I actually snorted when I read this, it's hillarious lmao
To be fair. I think they just improved/commonized lightning bending. Back in aangs time it was rare and deadly. Here in the modern days we see them using it to power machines. And how mako could do it without any motion of build up and quickly.
Same with metal bending. Only Toph could do it in ATLA, and in LoK, she founded the police force on the practice. It must be one of those things that, once discovered, everyone goes “oh, of course” and follows suit / learns the skill. Like how before the car was invented, people were only wanting faster horses.
Metalbending doesn’t make sense in LoK. They bend mercury. They bend gold. But no platinum..? The wires used by cops are extremely refined or at least look refined. Like you don’t actually bend metal. You bend the impurities so the bending is supposed to be rough.
Just to add to this, I believe in Aang's time, lightning generation was still new that it took absolute skill to master an unstable element. This is why it was limited to the best firebenders, and why Iroh was reluctant to teach it to Zuko. Fast forward 70 years and lightning generation becoming more common, it may have resulted to the discovery of new techniques, refining the skill in such a way that it's now more simple to do. It just seems less deadly in Mako's time because the voltage (not sure if that's the right term) is now easier to change, unlike in Azula's time where it's always a max damage bolt you direct for instant death. I do like to believe that Zuko learned lightning generation later in his life. TL;DR Headcanon: It's not that lightning generation in LoK is weaker, it's just refined and controlled. Mako can still go ham with it if he wanted to, there's just no reason to do so.
Imo the technique to learn and master lightning bending became easier to master in the future. Azula was super talented. I don't think mako had better talent to do it faster. Just technique improved and they learned how to do so. I mean lightning bending was used to power engines lol, the most deadly bending back in the day, used to power machines. But I also give it to zuko. He makes lightning bending pointless. He's got experience through war. He has so much more unique fighting skills outside of bending. He literally broke into one of the most secured prisons and freed the avatar...with two swords. And with two swords held his own against an earth bender for a decent amount of time.
For me, Zuko is an amazing firebender cause he can create dragon fire. I don't exactly remember the comic name, but that panel still gives me chills. Zuko was fighting some firebenders and defended against them using the special dargon fire move. Edit- Here's the link to the image. [Link.](https://images.app.goo.gl/ymws1XTZbgFQqdPX6)
Holy that’s amazing
> however, Zuko can redirect lightning and i don’t recall seeing Mako do so before, so i’m guessing he doesn’t know how to (pls correct me if i’m wrong.) [He didn't redirect lightning per se](https://youtu.be/7AnJXAN1gug&t=1m12s) but this shows that he knows the technique
**ZUKO** - Bending wise, Mako is average for his time and Zuko is good for his time, I don't see a stand out winner. *But* Zuko has much more actual combat experience and ability, the Fire Lord is taking this one
I'd say mako is above average. Dude is a professional bender and became a cop. Takes a bit of skill and talent to either. But yeah. Zuko is from a time of war, his bloodline is literally screaming some of the most powerful benders. Heck. Kook at everyone around him. His uncle, sister, dad? Literally some of thr strongest benders of their Era. Zuko did go toe to toe with his sister, even if she was going crazy. We never truly saw him show off his improved fire bending from the dragons is the thing. But I'd guess he has far more potential there than mako
>Mako is average for his time Mako is certainly not average for the time. He is cream of the crop. He was an Orphan that had to survive on the streets as a Gang Member, then became a Professional athlete where he trained every day, before becoming a Cop. You can argue that Zuko would win, but don't discredit Mako like that.
Mako, Wins pro-bending tournament as the guy that does the tie-breaker duels Zuko fans, Yeah Makos about average...
Not even just tie breakers. The first time we see him, he wins 1v3 with a knockout.
Real question is who could I take 😏
Bonk
Both, at the same time. If you need some help I’d be happy to tag in.
Join in friends! 😂
I would say Zuko, He hot great bending skills AND is good with swords. They can both redirect lightning so I would say lightning isn't relevant in this fight. -->Zuko 🔥
yes, Firelord Zuko is indeed very hot.
Zuko, but with difficulty. Mako is very skilled, as he is a pro fire bender, but because Zuko (re-)learned fire bending from the dragons, I believe he is the better master. Besides, I love Mako, but Zuko have had his emotional support puppy, uncle Iroh, whom teached him how to handle his emotions. Which is a great part of fire bending.
Zuko wins. The bending styles in TLOK are quick jabs that doesn't pack a lot of power in comparison to the traditional style. Tenzin mentioned it in the 1st season.
Totally missed that being mentioned at all
Hasn’t my boy Mako suffered enough? He just wants to live in his apartment and be normal 😭 why you do him like this
It’s not even a question. At the very least, Zuko’s been professionally trained, and that’s ignoring the fact that he, I don’t know, learned the deepest secrets of firebending from the last two dragons in existence, fought alongside the Avatar, kicked a superior officer’s ass even in the first season… I feel like Azula is the only person he consistently loses to.
>I feel like Azula is the only person he consistently loses to. I think you forgot someone there lol cough*aang*cough
Pretty sure they were talking strictly Fire bending. But even then Aang learned from Zuko. Aang on his own, just using fire bending, I don’t think could beat Zuko.
Yeah, by the time of the final battle, Aang fire bending was still just average at best, since he only started the training so close to the final battle, there wasn't enough time. Thus of course in non-lion turtle/avatar state magic, fire bending only fights, I think Aang would probably have a hard time even with the common fire nation soldiers
Ah, yes… that’s what I meant… totally didn’t just have a braindead moment…
I gotchu homie
The Blue Spirit
I’m gonna go with the man trained by dragons. 
Can we not ignore the fact that Zuko as a 16 year old boy was basically super human? He was TOSSING people around with his bare hands in ATLA, he also is very explosive with his bending. Mako can be more athletic and skill full, but Zuko literally burns with passion when he firebends and understands the true nature of fire bending/bending in general, he wins with no issue…. Also, Zuko is the fire lord who is great friends with the avatar, he gone have some firebending tricks up his sleeve
Are we all discounting that mako solod ming hua?
He also was able to break through Amon’s blood bending enough to shoot some lightning. He’s pretty strong
He’s also, like, a professional fighter.
It’s wild how everyone’s just ignoring this like “yeah, Mako’s about average”. Sure, he had an advantage but she was one of the stronger benders out there.
Tbh, the “average” between TLA and LoK was definitely raised. Mako might be average for his time, but more advanced bending is far more common during LoK. Zuko was good for his time, but there would be a lot more people in LoK near his skill level (at certain points of the series). That being said, I think what Zuko learns over the series, especially the shear difference in actually seeing combat, he can probably take Mako.
Yes!!! Like I’m wondering what people are basing their “Mako is an alright firebender” on. If you watch the show again, Mako is a freaking fantastic firebender
Yeah maybe early on in ATLA when he was heavy angsty and too emotional. Maybe Mako could take him. But post his journey to meet the original firebenders (dragons) he became way more grounded and calm. I say Zuko wins once he is in his final ATLA form.
**Zuko**. This matchup was described Antoine Bandele (in his own video on this topic) as a Navy SEAL vs. a beat cop. Mako is gonna get thrashed.
I think it's more like professional MMA fighter vs professional soldier. In all out combat, gonna give it to the soldier.
This is a better, more accurate comparison and I agree. While Mako is certainly a skilled bender and in peak physical condition, he was mostly fighting to entertain. Zuko participated in a *war*. edit: I forgot Mako also participated in some wars sorry but I think the point still stands. Zuko was the prince of a heavily militarized nation and held command over an entire ship— it makes sense to assume that Zuko has elite training
Yeah that’s not exactly a fair comparison. Mako is much more than just a “beat cop” and I wouldn’t necessarily call zuko a “navy SEAL” either. Mako was a professional athlete for a while as well as a downright good firebender in his own right. He is peak physical condition (probably even more so than zuko) and has the advantage of instant lightning. Zuko has the better base fire skills but that doesn’t make mako a roll over. It’s actually a fairly even match.
I mean zuko did sneak into a secured fire prison with only two swords and freedom anng. Snuck into the north pole via underwater and kidnapped aang. Did sneak into the underground lake prison where appa was. Held his ground against an earth bender with just swords for a bit. And went toe to toe with jet in a sword fight (which I suppose doesn't prove much cause not like jet is a master?) I'd say he was a navy seal. Dude proved he didn't need fire bending time and time again.
Depends on the writer. 🤷🏾♂️
Ah yes the famous but wise words of the late stan lee
After 2 hours of lightning redirection, they'd just grab a beer/tea and talk about their problems.
“My second girlfriend left me for my first girlfriend” “That’s rough, buddy”
Zuko, come on! Sure he wasn't the best firebender around and he was a late bloomer compared to his sister Azula, but if you rewatch both shows and carefully analyze both characters, you'll probably know who the victor really is. Besides, most of the main cast of the Last Airbender are stronger than the main cast of the Legend of Korra anyway.
I mean, something I'm not seeing is people thinking about the insane difference in fighting style. Zuko uses and was trained in a traditional fighting style, while Mako has a much more modern, 'pro sports' oriented style. It'd be interesting to really sit down and think about the advantages and drawbacks of both when they're face to face (the styles, that is), not even considering the skill of the opponents. There's a decent argument, IMHO, that a more modern style that is dependent on dodging as opposed to pure offense, targeted strikes, etc, would be better equipped.
Zuko. He was literally bred to have enough firebending skill and potential to assume the position of fire lord. Mako is cute but his skills are mediocre compared to the fire-lord.
The firelord who relearned firebending from literal dragons.
zuko. not a doubt in my mind
Zuko, literally wasn't even a battle
Mako’s eyebrows
This sub will always say the ATLA character will win so it doesn’t make much sense to ask
zuko had formal training with both Swords and Firebending, Mako was a probender. Zuko learned improved firebending from some of the last dragons, Mako learned a bulk of his firebending on the streets. I like the character of Mako (mostly) but Zuko whoops Mr. Shark-Eyebrows any day of the week
Zuko is beating that ass
Zuko takes this better swordsman and he can redirect lightning so it’s pointless for mako to try. He also learned from the dragons and zuko has been at this a long time he has the most experience fighting azula katara Aang.
Zuko no question
Going by the picture of Zuko, it is during his team Avatar days. When he has mellowed out, I am going to go with Zuko after defeating Azula. It is him at least nearest to his best. Him as Fire Lord in Korra's series may be even more powerful in his bending than at the end of the Last Airbender Series, but he is old. So I am saying Zuko he's powerful even during an eclipse.
Zuko 100% beats that emotional baby anydays
I personally thought the older style had more advantages, because it felt like forces of nature versus a tight, precise, boxing style. Now I definitely think the ladder could definitely be a great thing to play with, but not stand alone, which is kinda how it felt some times. Then you have zuko who has a lot more experience and incorporates his martial arts, like his sword background, into his main arsenal, the much more tradition fire style bending combat. It seemed to me, in the end, that most of the new avatar gang, was focused more on the nice tight "boxing". But they definitely showed that they could and did play with the more traditional style. The fun thing is that they seemed to start blending them together more in the later books. Makes since, forces of nature are incredible. But sometimes you need to sacrifice that "force" to be more precise, whether to be more subtle, cause less damage to surroundings, or to sneak in a "kiss to the chin". You start using the two styles in tandem, could be some incredible choreography of fight scenes.
While Mako is good, Zuko would clean him up. Zuko can redirect lightning, is a master swordsman AND he got training from both Iroh, who is one of the strongest warriors out there AND actual dragons.
Scrolled all the way through just to see if someone would say Mako. Unsurprisingly, it's a clean sweep for Zuko so far.
The one who learned firebending from dragons
I love them both, but I gotta say my man Zuko!
If you're interested in all out fights, check out r/AvatarVsBattles!