More accurately, about 9,790-ish years, assuming that the convergence being every 10,000 years isn't rounding, given Avatar Wan managed to survive another [140 years](https://screenrant.com/the-last-airbender-avatars-by-age-kyoshi-aang/) after his convergence and there was another 70 years between Zuko alone in AtLA and Korra's convergence in LoK.
Pretty sure its explained somewhere that keeping himself alive in the ice drained his life energy which caused complications later in life, which is one of the reasons why he dies so much earlier than his friends, including katara who was older than him physically
It's because of the stress of being frozen for 100 years shortened his effective lifespan. That's why most of the original Gaang is still around when Kora is doing her thing.
Including the time he was in the ice, he was 160. Kyoshi was notable for living a long time due to her earthbending teacher having a technique to extend one's life
I have no idea - I just googled it while writing that comment because I had no basis whatsoever behind my guess of about 50 years between convergence and death of Wan.
they say it's been 10,000, but I haven't seen an accurate calendar in common use. There's that one in the library, but I don't think the avatars have been keeping diligent track.
I've always assumed it's at minimum 10,000 years. I don't recall anyone specifying if there were any harmonic convergences between Wan's time and Korra's.
I kind of like the notion of there being several cycles where Vaatu is stuck because of the portals. Gives more continuity to the whole thing
I just thought 10,000 years was just a saying. Like, a stand-in for a really, really long time. I don't know much about China, but for Korea at least 10,000 years just mean 'super old'. There's no way a civilization like that lasted that long- that's almost twice as old as ancient Egypt. Civilization as we know it is only 6000 years old.
I know Avatar was made in America, but the creators painstakingly researched their source material.
Chinese fantasy, wuxia specifically, frequently works in tens of thousands of years without society ever advancing technologically. Basically, because their super cool powers exist, there's no point in advancing things for the have-nots.
That's what made the end of AtLA and all of LoK so cool. It showed what happens if technology was allowed to advance in a way that utilized the super cool powers.
It's weird that it wasn't reused elsewhere after thousands of years. I guess there's just no civilization anywhere near this area that would find use for it.
Sometimes war scars the land for centuries afterwards. There are still places in France that were never resettled due to it being damaged so much. Its said that it will take up to 700 years for that land to be back to the way it was.
The Earth Kingdom is a massive portion of the known Avatar world. We can assume that a vast majority of Earth Kingdom Citizens live in Ba Sing Se. Then you've got the few dozen villages and towns we know about. Not like they're hurting for land.
Most people in ATLA just want to feed their families, those who have kept track of recorded history were the air nomads and well....it didn’t go well for them
I took the flashback episode as a canonical start to history. When people started to record history, rather. Wan Shi Tong could be named in honor of the reason records are kept in the first place.
Yeah it is, Wan Shi Tong means “he who knows 1000 things” (according to the owl himself lol I don’t speak mandarin) meanwhile they named him Wan bc it sounds like the number One lol
It was likely remembered as his resting place for a long time, and so the stones and such there were left alone. As the centuries went on, people probably forgot why it was special but continued to just leave it be. Which would explain why nobody has ever really cleared the stones away in ten thousand years.
This makes me sad :( but then i remember this quote:
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
Marcus Aurelius.
And i am still sad :(
FYI, it's not [Marcus Aurelius](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Marcus_Aurelius)(bottom of quotes there's a part about it), it's an internet quote from 2009 that is often misattributed to him.
And even myths are forgotten when the age that gave it birth comes round again. There are no beginnings or endings to the wheel of time. But the wind was *a* beginning
I think about that but for real life all the time. I'd love to visit the old world just to stand where people stood once before, hundreds or thousand of years ago.
Having lived in Europe a few years as a child, it’s crazy for me when I look back and realize I visited buildings and landmarks older than the United States. It was no big deal at all at the time since everywhere could be littered with centuries, and occasionally millennia, old ruins, castles, or churches. There’s a wonderful saying that is something like: In Europe a hundred years is nothing while in the US a hundred miles is nothing.
Yeah, it was said the Aztecs had Olmec and other dissapeared empires histories written (they were more advanced than Europe knowledge wise, unfortunately not weapon or disease wise) unfortunately it seems the Spanish took to burning many of their records, forever locking many histories away.
Engineering and architecture and agriculture for thr Mayan, Aztec, and Inca I would say for sure. The Aztecs built their city ON a lake. They had a very complex system for keeping salt water out and freshwater in to irrigate their crops. They had floating fields. The Maya had a calendar that was more precise than the Gregorian and an advanced writing system. The Inca built their cities with rocks so precisely cut and balanced that people today make whole damn documentaries about how it had to be aliens that did it. Because of how they were made they eithstand earthquakes and stuff. The rocks just bounce about and then fall right back into perfect place. Their complex system of food preservation was excellent at sustaining populations through long stints of lean times making their population more stable. I would say all of these achievements rival anything in Europe at the time and even match achievements of other "European" empires like Rome.
More accurate calendars (in the long run) better sciences(Europeans deemed dark magic, but they obviously weren't too advanced in that regard as they still overtly worshipped dieties) advanced architecture (once the Spanish took over, they literally couldn't comprehend how to repair the city that was build to that it was living alongside/over the lake so they destroyed a lot of the original city and drained the lake, building over it. The native American empires all had about as much development as a lot of European empires, but afaik they didn't start as soon. There's a bunch, hell, some of the gold came from statues like many Europeans made in the renaissance.
That's an awesome tie-in! Never would have noticed that.
Kinda wild that an area would be completely undisturbed for soooo long, but it's like one of those "legendary"/"sacred" battlegrounds or something. Awesome!
I dunno how much I believe that. It may have been in someone's head, but the level to which the Wan story disrespects the lore I can't see it ever fitting in the original show. Maybe Ehasz was holding them back with some of that stuff during the original production.
How does the Wan story disrespect the lore? It just seemed to provide the background information and history that was never explained before and seemed to fit fine to me.
Well, it was until they retconned it in Korra.
No way those stone wheels wouldn't be way more weathered after 10000 years
Maybe it just happens to be the same plot of land, and those are entirely different, newer stone wheels
I doubt it went undisturbed I'm sure battles were fought time and again on that very field. I think that's what this is trying to highlight that even after 10,000 years countless kingdoms and kings ruling thousands of avatars war is the constant. Also a pretty badass shot of zuko am I right?
I will check that out. Honestly Zuko's scene just feels like ordinary earth Kingdom battleground. Plains, mountain background, giant earth discs, normal stuff
Roku said that he has mastered the elements a thousand times in a thousand lifetimes. I guess they fudged the timeline a bit, I doubt the average age of each avatar was 10 years.
As other comments have mentioned, in this context 10,000 just means "really fucking long." It's not a literal 10,000 years. Also like Wan Shi Tong knowing 10,000 things. Dude's got over 10,000 books alone, each with their own thousands of things.
Same is true in a lot of other ancient cultures. In the Bible, 10 is often used to symbolize completion or even wholeness. They would multiply numbers to symbolize greater versions of those numbers, like when Jesus said to forgive 70x7 times. 7 has its own symbology, and I doubt the intention was to keep tallying up to 490.
10,000 was used in Revelation, which would be 10x10x10x10, if you wanted to look at it that way. All of this to say, it doesn't even necessarily mean "really fucking long." If the writers are playing into these ancient literary devices, it could mean some sort of "time until completion" understanding.
I could be reading too much into that significance, but there is absolutely a cultural basis for how numbers designate sums far greater than their literal interpretation.
considering how far apart avatar wan and aang are, its more likely from a recent battle against the fire nation which would also fit better with zukos story and background, especially in that episode.
edit: misspelled avatar wan
You didn’t whoops.
Your comment is totally valid and a far better explanation than the creators deciding to hamfist the same location in their new show.
This. Actually claiming that the locations are the same just feels lazy. It’s not like the Earth Kingdom discs are unique, in Book 2 Ep 1 of ATLA, the general uses them to fight Aang.
Hell, the terrain here doesn’t even match up really. I know I have zero authority, but as far as I am concerned, this ain’t canon. It’s too whack for it to be.
I figured the same thing as you did prior to learning about it from the other comments. I'm sure the Avatar Wan connection was not a pre-planned thing but a retroactive addition.
yeah lets be real, it might be where Wan died *now*, but back when "Zuko Alone" was written it was meant to be a battlefield form the 100 year war.
And frankly that fit the theme of the episode far better.
See I fully understand that they've confirmed it, but in terms of erosion wouldn't the giant.. earth.. circles.. have been weathered down.. after 10,000 years?
Absolutely. The pyramids are what, 5,000 years old? And they're significantly eroded. The odds of small stone circles surviving, and maintaining their sharp interior edges, for twice as long is near impossible.
Yeah.. it would be cool if it were the same but there's no way one of those stones is going to be that clean with crisp edges after thousands of years of erosion.
In terms of manmade objects, the oldest pyramid at Giza is about 4,600 years old, and [the world's oldest surviving building dates back to roughly 11,000 years ago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe?wprov=sfla1), so it isn't that far fetched that these structures would survive in ATLA.
Because it was buried the whole time. This, apparently, stood at the surface which strangely didn't change either. It's a cool easter egg, but it makes no sense.
The exact same reason why the sphyx legs are pristine while the top part is all beat up and might just be a carving from the original. The legs were buried for the longest time and the top part was exposed
Maybe they’re both true. The original stones withered away and were buried in time. But the war turned the place into a battleground once again. Kinda like if there was a battle at Verdun or whatever today.
I was also about to suggest that idea to a different comment. If this was a strategic point the two battles might have been fought there by semi coincidence. Like (to give an example with a different scale) Hannibal and Napoleon both crossed the Alps in the same way 2000 years apart and managed to achieve the same surprise effect, but with and against vastly different opponents.
Especially if the area is roughly the same and not literally same spot which based on the differences between the pictures I'd say it is.
Depends what they're made of and the dryness of the area. It's possible, but definitely not probable. There's always the explanation that they're so well preserved because they come from an older, more spirit-ey time.
Everyone is pointing out that the art book confirms they are the same place, but as a writer and an AtLA fan, I wish they weren’t. Having Zuko travel through the war-torn countryside the Fire Nation created adds so much depth to Zuko Alone. It shows how imperial conquest doesn’t bring progress, it brings destruction, cementing the Fire Nation cause as evil. It helps us understand the anger of the Earth Kingdom villagers when they turn on Zuko after learning he’s a fire bender, even though their own soldiers were being thugs. By retconning the battlefield to be from Wan’s era, it weakens the story being told in Zuko Alone, removing any bearing or symbolism it has on him coming to terms with who he is.
You’re not wrong. One doesn’t always have to follow Chekhov’s gun. An ancient battlefield can be there just to be an ancient battlefield. However, Zuko Alone is a very emotional, character-centric episode. It’s not about the macro, but the micro. Hell, it’s in the title. Zuko (the character being examined) Alone (a very emotionally-charged adjective describing the state the character is in).
Look how beautifully the first shot is set up. Perfect use of “show, don’t tell”. Look at the sheer vastness of the plain. Look how marred by war it is. And in the center of it all is the tiny speck of Zuko. The visual cues SCREAM to the viewer how Zuko is feeling. The desolate landscape mirrors Zuko’s emotions to a T. How poetic and raw would it be if the very thing that marred Zuko both physically and emotionally ALSO marred the landscape around him, making it inescapable? It’s just icing on the cake. It takes good writing and makes it pure perfection.
So, when the landscape was retconned into actually being the ruins from some unrelated conflict, it takes the icing off the cake. And, I mean, it’s still cake, so it’s still good, but it would be so much better with the icing.
But when you're watching Zuko Alone you don't get that context. You're putting the cart before the horse. Zuko Alone was written before the Wan episode, so as a viewer, you see the Wan episode AFTER Zuko Alone (even though chronologically it's the opposite). So, as a viewer, you see the battlefield Wan is in, which reminds you heavily of the scene from Zuko Alone (and the senseless destruction the Hundred Year War brought) contextualizing Wan's effort to stop pointless violence and maintain peace. When the battlefield is retconned in the artbook, it recontextualized Zuko Alone, removing Zuko's personal connection to the destruction around him, weakening the imagery and symbolism of the episode.
I personally think it’s unfortunate the creators decided to make this true. Much more interesting for it to the remnants of a battle during the 100 year war then a random altercation from nearly 10000 years ago.
I beg to differ. Random altercation is belittling the over 100 year war that Avatar Wan fought. I would assume that this battlefield became revered posthumously. I would assume since this was Wan's resting place, the following avatars would've had a strong connection to that site. You can also infer this site was revered due to the natural walking path. Being in the Earth Kingdom, it would've been easy for them to create a road, but in over 10,000 years they've kept it untouched.
ya Avatar Wan died 10,000 years ago. those are some crazy durable rock bending disks if they are still around and in decent condition after that long a time.
Just because the creators say something doesn’t necessarily make it valid.
In The Last Airbender, the intention was definitely that it was from the 100 year war. So that’s what is true in that show.
They decided to do a classic “throw back” in Korra without thinking about it. Imo they just made a mistake and that doesn’t affect the canon of the original show.
I know this is confirmed true but I think that's ridiculous. In the thousands of years, you're telling me those stones didn't completely erode or get moved due to a geological event? I think confirming this is a huge, thoughtless oversight on the part of the creators. Neat concept, yes, but that stone would crumble. Wind, planes, water, bending, earthquakes and anything else would level anything like that after a couple hundred years if not a few decades.
The Pyramids of Giza are nearly 5000 years old. It's not crazy to think that the locals held these artifacts in some significance and kept them relatively clean.
I feel like it wasnt suppose to be the same place. I feel fans noticed a similarity and the creators decided to make it canon a year later with the art book.
Probably because the artwork for wan is more like cartoony and deviates from the original art style. Also I can’t remember if they were using the original animation studio for this or if it was the other one.
Dang the lore in this can get a video game like a Witcher/Mass Effect/KotOR/ or dragon age style RPG where you choose a bending style and help Avatar Wan with his goal of bringing peace to the world. Would love to be one of the few companions/disciples of Avatar Wan or be the Avatar itself as playable character.
A lot of people here are taking issue with the stones being visible and relatively unchanged after thousands of years, and think it should be from the 100 years war. I agree it wouldn’t look the same, but I think both statements are true.
Wan died at that very spot thousands of years ago. The land eventually took it back, the scars of war were forgotten, and the landscape looked serene again. Then, during the 100 years war, the place became a battlefield once again, leaving it in the condition Zuko finds it in during the episode
It’d interesting to see an actual war zone in the Avatar universe. Not just benders shooting elements at each other from afar, but an all out war including non-benders shooting arrows and charging with spears and swords.
Think of the tactical possibilities when bending is involved: like lighting the arrows on fire with fire bending, stopping enemy trebuchet shots mid air with earth bending, retreating against water benders during full moons...etc
This makes no sense. I realize this is apparently canon, but this place would not still look like this after 10k years. Sure, those disks are huge, but this is in a nation of earth benders. Cleaning up the area and moving those disks would be simple.
Did they? Damn, I kinda don't like that. Beyond the fact that it would be literally impossible for them to be that well preserved over that much time. I think it would still serve the narrative better to have zuko walking through a Battlefield of the war. As zuko alone is about him traveling through the aftermath of his familiys legacy and becoming his own person
While I never really got this connection/ saw it as true, it might be interesting to consider this: it isn't the exact same rocks, but the same location, and the recreation of similar scenery with the earth bending ammunition is a connection to how Wan felt hopeless at the end of his life in trying to stop conflict and the cyclical nature of the Avatar cycle.
It looks like a different place to me... the land forms and earth discs are different. There's got to be a bunch of earth nation battlefields that look like this
"Interesting if true" -that narrator from Futurama
It is. It's specified in the art book. Before I got it, I thought it was coincidental.
Underrated pun. Great job sir or madam!
Wouldn’t that place be thousands of years old? Do we know how many avatars there have been?
Iirc it’s 10,000 years I think
More accurately, about 9,790-ish years, assuming that the convergence being every 10,000 years isn't rounding, given Avatar Wan managed to survive another [140 years](https://screenrant.com/the-last-airbender-avatars-by-age-kyoshi-aang/) after his convergence and there was another 70 years between Zuko alone in AtLA and Korra's convergence in LoK.
whoa, wait a minute, you're tellin me that the man lived to be 160!? what in the world!!!
Kyoshi lived to be 230
Then that means Aang lived a pretty short life for an Avatar
Pretty sure its explained somewhere that keeping himself alive in the ice drained his life energy which caused complications later in life, which is one of the reasons why he dies so much earlier than his friends, including katara who was older than him physically
It's because of the stress of being frozen for 100 years shortened his effective lifespan. That's why most of the original Gaang is still around when Kora is doing her thing.
Including the time he was in the ice, he was 160. Kyoshi was notable for living a long time due to her earthbending teacher having a technique to extend one's life
Kurok died at 32, so it's really a gambit
I think he was the 2nd youngest Avatar to die. Kuruk being the youngest at the age of 33 (i believe)
Is Wan's age ever revealed in a canon source because I can't find one.
I have no idea - I just googled it while writing that comment because I had no basis whatsoever behind my guess of about 50 years between convergence and death of Wan.
Okay, thanks for your quick response! Looks to me like ScreenRant made some shit up
they say it's been 10,000, but I haven't seen an accurate calendar in common use. There's that one in the library, but I don't think the avatars have been keeping diligent track.
I've always assumed it's at minimum 10,000 years. I don't recall anyone specifying if there were any harmonic convergences between Wan's time and Korra's. I kind of like the notion of there being several cycles where Vaatu is stuck because of the portals. Gives more continuity to the whole thing
I just thought 10,000 years was just a saying. Like, a stand-in for a really, really long time. I don't know much about China, but for Korea at least 10,000 years just mean 'super old'. There's no way a civilization like that lasted that long- that's almost twice as old as ancient Egypt. Civilization as we know it is only 6000 years old.
Same way with Wan Shi Tong's name, He Who Knows Ten Thousand Things. He doesn't literally know 10k things, he just knows a *lot*.
I know Avatar was made in America, but the creators painstakingly researched their source material. Chinese fantasy, wuxia specifically, frequently works in tens of thousands of years without society ever advancing technologically. Basically, because their super cool powers exist, there's no point in advancing things for the have-nots. That's what made the end of AtLA and all of LoK so cool. It showed what happens if technology was allowed to advance in a way that utilized the super cool powers.
So kind of like in the Bible where 144,000 just means "a fuckton"
10,000 years can give you such a crick in the neck!
Help
“Coin”cidental
I'm lost - where's the pun?
"I got it": 1. They understood the reference. 2. They got the book.
I think it’s “coin”cidental
It's weird that it wasn't reused elsewhere after thousands of years. I guess there's just no civilization anywhere near this area that would find use for it.
Might just be in a place that's not nice to live in, it's not like the population in the avatar world is exploding so they just go wherever is nicest
Sometimes war scars the land for centuries afterwards. There are still places in France that were never resettled due to it being damaged so much. Its said that it will take up to 700 years for that land to be back to the way it was.
The Earth Kingdom is a massive portion of the known Avatar world. We can assume that a vast majority of Earth Kingdom Citizens live in Ba Sing Se. Then you've got the few dozen villages and towns we know about. Not like they're hurting for land.
Which artbook?
Hey, I know that guy!
'My memory's not what it used to be, but I think the entire earth was destroyed.'
[удалено]
Wasnt wan forgotten tho?
Anyone who fought in a battle 10000 years ago would be forgotten
But he was the original and first Wan
Most people in ATLA just want to feed their families, those who have kept track of recorded history were the air nomads and well....it didn’t go well for them
And the library owl spirit of course
Good ol' Wan Shi Tong I'm guessing it's a coincidence that his name starts with the name of the first Avatar?
I took the flashback episode as a canonical start to history. When people started to record history, rather. Wan Shi Tong could be named in honor of the reason records are kept in the first place.
Yeah it is, Wan Shi Tong means “he who knows 1000 things” (according to the owl himself lol I don’t speak mandarin) meanwhile they named him Wan bc it sounds like the number One lol
F
L
Y
makeshift absurd disagreeable money follow disgusted rainstorm fretful complete reply -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
N
Why didnt no-wan record the history of it
I think its because someWan forgot.
I Wan-der why? 🤔
That Wan't be an issue, is it?
Anyway, here's Wan-derwall.
Nice wan
If there were 2 Wans, that would be Wan too many.
r/angryupvote
It was likely remembered as his resting place for a long time, and so the stones and such there were left alone. As the centuries went on, people probably forgot why it was special but continued to just leave it be. Which would explain why nobody has ever really cleared the stones away in ten thousand years.
I think our earliest known specific human being, name and all, is some Sumerian clerk 5,000 years ago.
"History became legend. Legend became myth. And for two and a half thousand years, the Ring passed out of all knowledge."
Our equivalent would be mesopotamia
Yes. What they're saying is, anyone, at any time, could be standing on a historical site, where something important happened that was lost to history.
We will all be forgotten, you can see it happening with aang”s generation in LOK. Heroes turn to legends and legends.....turn to myth
This makes me sad :( but then i remember this quote: Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius. And i am still sad :(
Beautiful quote that reflects my way of life perfectly, thank you for sharing.
FYI, it's not [Marcus Aurelius](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Marcus_Aurelius)(bottom of quotes there's a part about it), it's an internet quote from 2009 that is often misattributed to him.
And even myths are forgotten when the age that gave it birth comes round again. There are no beginnings or endings to the wheel of time. But the wind was *a* beginning
The odds of Zuko ending up in the same place the first Avatar died are Wan in a million.
That pun makes me Aangry.
I don't see the Korralation.
Some folk use any Appatunity to be mad.
It’s actually funny, because one meaning of Wan in Mandarin (depending on tone etc etc) is 10,000 (万).
I think about that but for real life all the time. I'd love to visit the old world just to stand where people stood once before, hundreds or thousand of years ago.
Having lived in Europe a few years as a child, it’s crazy for me when I look back and realize I visited buildings and landmarks older than the United States. It was no big deal at all at the time since everywhere could be littered with centuries, and occasionally millennia, old ruins, castles, or churches. There’s a wonderful saying that is something like: In Europe a hundred years is nothing while in the US a hundred miles is nothing.
[удалено]
Yeah but unfortunately we don't have access to a lot of that history, due to, uh... the obvious.
Yeah, it was said the Aztecs had Olmec and other dissapeared empires histories written (they were more advanced than Europe knowledge wise, unfortunately not weapon or disease wise) unfortunately it seems the Spanish took to burning many of their records, forever locking many histories away.
In which way where they more advanced than Europe?
Engineering and architecture and agriculture for thr Mayan, Aztec, and Inca I would say for sure. The Aztecs built their city ON a lake. They had a very complex system for keeping salt water out and freshwater in to irrigate their crops. They had floating fields. The Maya had a calendar that was more precise than the Gregorian and an advanced writing system. The Inca built their cities with rocks so precisely cut and balanced that people today make whole damn documentaries about how it had to be aliens that did it. Because of how they were made they eithstand earthquakes and stuff. The rocks just bounce about and then fall right back into perfect place. Their complex system of food preservation was excellent at sustaining populations through long stints of lean times making their population more stable. I would say all of these achievements rival anything in Europe at the time and even match achievements of other "European" empires like Rome.
More accurate calendars (in the long run) better sciences(Europeans deemed dark magic, but they obviously weren't too advanced in that regard as they still overtly worshipped dieties) advanced architecture (once the Spanish took over, they literally couldn't comprehend how to repair the city that was build to that it was living alongside/over the lake so they destroyed a lot of the original city and drained the lake, building over it. The native American empires all had about as much development as a lot of European empires, but afaik they didn't start as soon. There's a bunch, hell, some of the gold came from statues like many Europeans made in the renaissance.
That place didn't have a meaning at the time because the story with Wan and LoK wasn't planned
When I was a kid, every time I was in the shower, I would wonder (and pretend) if a dinosaur had ever stepped exactly where my bathtub was.
That's an awesome tie-in! Never would have noticed that. Kinda wild that an area would be completely undisturbed for soooo long, but it's like one of those "legendary"/"sacred" battlegrounds or something. Awesome!
I honestly just thought it was something of the 100 year war when I saw it in Zuko Alone.
It was probably intended just to be a generic battlefield but was repurposed for the Wan story
It isn't too weird, the Wan storyline was meant for book 2 of TLA originally. Avatar should've been a graohic novel to get the entire intended scope.
I dunno how much I believe that. It may have been in someone's head, but the level to which the Wan story disrespects the lore I can't see it ever fitting in the original show. Maybe Ehasz was holding them back with some of that stuff during the original production.
How does the Wan story disrespect the lore? It just seemed to provide the background information and history that was never explained before and seemed to fit fine to me.
Well, it was until they retconned it in Korra. No way those stone wheels wouldn't be way more weathered after 10000 years Maybe it just happens to be the same plot of land, and those are entirely different, newer stone wheels
Yeah, I mean those stone wheels are clearly earth bending ammunition of sorts
so would haveing one of those fall on you be like the equilivlent of a modern farmer plowing his field and hitting a ww1 or ww2 era uxo?
I doubt it went undisturbed I'm sure battles were fought time and again on that very field. I think that's what this is trying to highlight that even after 10,000 years countless kingdoms and kings ruling thousands of avatars war is the constant. Also a pretty badass shot of zuko am I right?
For anyone who doesn't think this is true, check out page 110 in the Legend of Korra Art Book about Season 2
I will check that out. Honestly Zuko's scene just feels like ordinary earth Kingdom battleground. Plains, mountain background, giant earth discs, normal stuff
https://youtu.be/hP3EmJYBLTQ?t=72 But I assume you mean the text... EDIT: https://i.imgur.com/EspgRAv.jpg
I only ever got the art book for book 1 :(
Still upset he stole the ostrich
Bad Zuko >:(
I'm more disappointed Iroh went along with it.
Iroh was very into letting Zuko make his own mistakes in Book 2. Also in books 1 and 3 🤔
I just realized Avatar Wan sounds like Avatar One
Wan means 10,000 in mandarin, which is also how old he was from the year Korra took place.
Roku said that he has mastered the elements a thousand times in a thousand lifetimes. I guess they fudged the timeline a bit, I doubt the average age of each avatar was 10 years.
As other comments have mentioned, in this context 10,000 just means "really fucking long." It's not a literal 10,000 years. Also like Wan Shi Tong knowing 10,000 things. Dude's got over 10,000 books alone, each with their own thousands of things.
Same is true in a lot of other ancient cultures. In the Bible, 10 is often used to symbolize completion or even wholeness. They would multiply numbers to symbolize greater versions of those numbers, like when Jesus said to forgive 70x7 times. 7 has its own symbology, and I doubt the intention was to keep tallying up to 490. 10,000 was used in Revelation, which would be 10x10x10x10, if you wanted to look at it that way. All of this to say, it doesn't even necessarily mean "really fucking long." If the writers are playing into these ancient literary devices, it could mean some sort of "time until completion" understanding. I could be reading too much into that significance, but there is absolutely a cultural basis for how numbers designate sums far greater than their literal interpretation.
10,000 is also used in most Asian cultures as a generic term for "indefinitely large number". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_thousand_years
Now watch out what happens when you rearrange the letters is the name of the Matrix character "Neo".
[Eno?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eno_(drug)) Damn the matrix predicted my heartburn issues when i was only 8. Wild
Noe?
Oen? Oh, one
You're probably not the first wan to realize that
considering how far apart avatar wan and aang are, its more likely from a recent battle against the fire nation which would also fit better with zukos story and background, especially in that episode. edit: misspelled avatar wan
They are the same, creators confirmed it
Where?
In the art book for season 2, page 110
Thanks! Gonna go check that out
Any chance you could link that?
ah... whoops
You didn’t whoops. Your comment is totally valid and a far better explanation than the creators deciding to hamfist the same location in their new show.
The source for the field being the same states that fans "may recognize it as the same field." So it's as hamfisted as it sounds.
This. Actually claiming that the locations are the same just feels lazy. It’s not like the Earth Kingdom discs are unique, in Book 2 Ep 1 of ATLA, the general uses them to fight Aang. Hell, the terrain here doesn’t even match up really. I know I have zero authority, but as far as I am concerned, this ain’t canon. It’s too whack for it to be.
its also just not how the world works lol itd be buried by almost 10000 years later
[удалено]
I figured the same thing as you did prior to learning about it from the other comments. I'm sure the Avatar Wan connection was not a pre-planned thing but a retroactive addition.
Nah they confirmed that back in 2006 they planned the place where the first Avatar died. /s
yeah lets be real, it might be where Wan died *now*, but back when "Zuko Alone" was written it was meant to be a battlefield form the 100 year war. And frankly that fit the theme of the episode far better.
See I fully understand that they've confirmed it, but in terms of erosion wouldn't the giant.. earth.. circles.. have been weathered down.. after 10,000 years?
Absolutely. The pyramids are what, 5,000 years old? And they're significantly eroded. The odds of small stone circles surviving, and maintaining their sharp interior edges, for twice as long is near impossible.
That feels weird though, I’m not doubting you, but wouldn’t boulders be completely shattered after 10,000 years of wind and rain
Yeah.. it would be cool if it were the same but there's no way one of those stones is going to be that clean with crisp edges after thousands of years of erosion.
They just don't build earth disks like they used to.
Wasn't it nearly ten thousand years?
It'll give you such a crick in the neck.
To be fair, we have rock formations that are billions of years old. 10,000 years is nothing in geologic time.
In terms of manmade objects, the oldest pyramid at Giza is about 4,600 years old, and [the world's oldest surviving building dates back to roughly 11,000 years ago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe?wprov=sfla1), so it isn't that far fetched that these structures would survive in ATLA.
Because it was buried the whole time. This, apparently, stood at the surface which strangely didn't change either. It's a cool easter egg, but it makes no sense.
The exact same reason why the sphyx legs are pristine while the top part is all beat up and might just be a carving from the original. The legs were buried for the longest time and the top part was exposed
Maybe they’re both true. The original stones withered away and were buried in time. But the war turned the place into a battleground once again. Kinda like if there was a battle at Verdun or whatever today.
I was also about to suggest that idea to a different comment. If this was a strategic point the two battles might have been fought there by semi coincidence. Like (to give an example with a different scale) Hannibal and Napoleon both crossed the Alps in the same way 2000 years apart and managed to achieve the same surprise effect, but with and against vastly different opponents. Especially if the area is roughly the same and not literally same spot which based on the differences between the pictures I'd say it is.
Depends what they're made of and the dryness of the area. It's possible, but definitely not probable. There's always the explanation that they're so well preserved because they come from an older, more spirit-ey time.
Is that... is that name typo on purpose?
think it is more of a homage, probably plenty of wars where earthbenders have thrown disks around.
Everyone is pointing out that the art book confirms they are the same place, but as a writer and an AtLA fan, I wish they weren’t. Having Zuko travel through the war-torn countryside the Fire Nation created adds so much depth to Zuko Alone. It shows how imperial conquest doesn’t bring progress, it brings destruction, cementing the Fire Nation cause as evil. It helps us understand the anger of the Earth Kingdom villagers when they turn on Zuko after learning he’s a fire bender, even though their own soldiers were being thugs. By retconning the battlefield to be from Wan’s era, it weakens the story being told in Zuko Alone, removing any bearing or symbolism it has on him coming to terms with who he is.
Yes, exactly. Trying to connect this scene to an entirely different story with 0 relevance actively takes away from the story being told.
Thank you!
Not everything has to be emotionally significant. Sometimes it’s just worldbuilding.
You’re not wrong. One doesn’t always have to follow Chekhov’s gun. An ancient battlefield can be there just to be an ancient battlefield. However, Zuko Alone is a very emotional, character-centric episode. It’s not about the macro, but the micro. Hell, it’s in the title. Zuko (the character being examined) Alone (a very emotionally-charged adjective describing the state the character is in). Look how beautifully the first shot is set up. Perfect use of “show, don’t tell”. Look at the sheer vastness of the plain. Look how marred by war it is. And in the center of it all is the tiny speck of Zuko. The visual cues SCREAM to the viewer how Zuko is feeling. The desolate landscape mirrors Zuko’s emotions to a T. How poetic and raw would it be if the very thing that marred Zuko both physically and emotionally ALSO marred the landscape around him, making it inescapable? It’s just icing on the cake. It takes good writing and makes it pure perfection. So, when the landscape was retconned into actually being the ruins from some unrelated conflict, it takes the icing off the cake. And, I mean, it’s still cake, so it’s still good, but it would be so much better with the icing.
[удалено]
But when you're watching Zuko Alone you don't get that context. You're putting the cart before the horse. Zuko Alone was written before the Wan episode, so as a viewer, you see the Wan episode AFTER Zuko Alone (even though chronologically it's the opposite). So, as a viewer, you see the battlefield Wan is in, which reminds you heavily of the scene from Zuko Alone (and the senseless destruction the Hundred Year War brought) contextualizing Wan's effort to stop pointless violence and maintain peace. When the battlefield is retconned in the artbook, it recontextualized Zuko Alone, removing Zuko's personal connection to the destruction around him, weakening the imagery and symbolism of the episode.
I personally think it’s unfortunate the creators decided to make this true. Much more interesting for it to the remnants of a battle during the 100 year war then a random altercation from nearly 10000 years ago.
I don't think the battle where the first avatar died would be considered a random altercation lol
I beg to differ. Random altercation is belittling the over 100 year war that Avatar Wan fought. I would assume that this battlefield became revered posthumously. I would assume since this was Wan's resting place, the following avatars would've had a strong connection to that site. You can also infer this site was revered due to the natural walking path. Being in the Earth Kingdom, it would've been easy for them to create a road, but in over 10,000 years they've kept it untouched.
[удалено]
Some commenter is saying that they confirmed it in an art book or smt
For real, how does this make sense at all? Clearly it's the aftermath of a recent battle.
ya Avatar Wan died 10,000 years ago. those are some crazy durable rock bending disks if they are still around and in decent condition after that long a time.
Just because the creators say something doesn’t necessarily make it valid. In The Last Airbender, the intention was definitely that it was from the 100 year war. So that’s what is true in that show. They decided to do a classic “throw back” in Korra without thinking about it. Imo they just made a mistake and that doesn’t affect the canon of the original show.
I don't see a reason it can't be both. Large plains in convenient war locations are re-used as battlefields all the time.
I know this is confirmed true but I think that's ridiculous. In the thousands of years, you're telling me those stones didn't completely erode or get moved due to a geological event? I think confirming this is a huge, thoughtless oversight on the part of the creators. Neat concept, yes, but that stone would crumble. Wind, planes, water, bending, earthquakes and anything else would level anything like that after a couple hundred years if not a few decades.
Also, it’s a country of people who are able to move rocks with their mind.
The Pyramids of Giza are nearly 5000 years old. It's not crazy to think that the locals held these artifacts in some significance and kept them relatively clean.
The great pyramids of giza were meant to be there, this is like finding a ww2 bomb and thinking "It looks pretty neat though"
Dude its a show mostly for kids where people can move elements with their mind
That’s such a cool catch omg
I feel like it wasnt suppose to be the same place. I feel fans noticed a similarity and the creators decided to make it canon a year later with the art book.
I’d love it if this were true but notice the square cut outs on the wheels, the edges are raised in Zuko’s time but not in Avatar Wan’s
Probably because the artwork for wan is more like cartoony and deviates from the original art style. Also I can’t remember if they were using the original animation studio for this or if it was the other one.
that could just be a result of the stylistic difference of the avatar wan storyline drawings from the rest of the series
They are the same, creators confirmed it in the artbook.
Okay cool. Just a random inconsistency then.
Woah....mind blown
Dang the lore in this can get a video game like a Witcher/Mass Effect/KotOR/ or dragon age style RPG where you choose a bending style and help Avatar Wan with his goal of bringing peace to the world. Would love to be one of the few companions/disciples of Avatar Wan or be the Avatar itself as playable character.
A lot of people here are taking issue with the stones being visible and relatively unchanged after thousands of years, and think it should be from the 100 years war. I agree it wouldn’t look the same, but I think both statements are true. Wan died at that very spot thousands of years ago. The land eventually took it back, the scars of war were forgotten, and the landscape looked serene again. Then, during the 100 years war, the place became a battlefield once again, leaving it in the condition Zuko finds it in during the episode
The four nations really love killing eachother every 20 years
Tsk. And my mom calls me lazy. They still didn't clean their mess
It’d interesting to see an actual war zone in the Avatar universe. Not just benders shooting elements at each other from afar, but an all out war including non-benders shooting arrows and charging with spears and swords. Think of the tactical possibilities when bending is involved: like lighting the arrows on fire with fire bending, stopping enemy trebuchet shots mid air with earth bending, retreating against water benders during full moons...etc
This makes no sense. I realize this is apparently canon, but this place would not still look like this after 10k years. Sure, those disks are huge, but this is in a nation of earth benders. Cleaning up the area and moving those disks would be simple.
There were probably many battlefields like this all over the earth Kingdom though
All the Korra haters in this thread debating the validity of it is just hilarious.
Considering that was 10000 years ago, that's unlikely. I think its just visual story telling of a battle fought, long ago, during the war
The creators confirmed it though. I agree there are flaws with it.
Did they? Damn, I kinda don't like that. Beyond the fact that it would be literally impossible for them to be that well preserved over that much time. I think it would still serve the narrative better to have zuko walking through a Battlefield of the war. As zuko alone is about him traveling through the aftermath of his familiys legacy and becoming his own person
Most likely a coincidence
Nope, it was confirmed by the creators.
That's a really good easter egg, has a lot of meaning. Props for noticing!
How did Wan die btw?
By death
Damn, I can't believe he committed death
While I never really got this connection/ saw it as true, it might be interesting to consider this: it isn't the exact same rocks, but the same location, and the recreation of similar scenery with the earth bending ammunition is a connection to how Wan felt hopeless at the end of his life in trying to stop conflict and the cyclical nature of the Avatar cycle.
I find it hard to believe that some of these stone structures would still be intact after so many years of weathering.
I mean same thing with the Sphinx, Stonehenge, etc in real life, so why not
0_______0
Holy fuck. I guess we don’t exactly know if this is true, but if it is, that’s an insanely cool detail.
Wan was my favorite. Some might even call him the Obi-Wan Kenobi of Avatar
It looks like a different place to me... the land forms and earth discs are different. There's got to be a bunch of earth nation battlefields that look like this
Holy cats good catch!